{"id":154374,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154374","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/767b6a9d27b3726c09cc0107abf97f6fda706b406df85b80e70b5822ad681b8933cbce93769d80bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:41:07 - 11:50:36","影片長度":"00:09:29","會議時間":"2024-06-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 553.958, \"end\": 553.978, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,209 --> 00:00:14,492\n首先請教副主委您認為今天審議的法案是不是典型的原住民自治議題?\n\n2\n00:00:26,969 --> 00:00:52,483\n是或不是就好了?這是組織法,是原民會的組織法規。那它算不算一種原住民自治的議題嗎?當然,如果說在整個行政運作上,原民自主自行,還有獨立的預算。對對對,我就問是或不是。那剛剛我也聽到林委員質詢的時候,您支持原住民自治嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:53,784 --> 00:01:10,229\n您要表達支持嗎?支持那如果不討論人事、法規、行政院組織等等您贊不贊成提案主委山原平原輪座的主張?您贊不贊成?我先了解山原平原輪座的主張\n\n4\n00:01:23,339 --> 00:01:52,553\n因為這樣的輪流主張,它也涉及到未來提名的任命的權利的部分。對,那您贊不贊成嗎?不要浪費我時間,您贊不贊成?贊成或不贊成?以目前來講,目前原命會推動還算順利啦,因為從剛剛委員提出的幾個。好,所以您贊成嘛,贊成嘛。好,那這個目前提案的這種自治應該還算是蠻低度的自治吧?\n\n5\n00:01:53,664 --> 00:02:19,155\n更為包括因為自治是一個很龐雜的一個議題可能要有配套的措施對啊對啊所以目前的提案都算比較低度的吧那我現在提比較強度更高的就是由原住民自己選主委或是原住民的領袖主委你的看法支不支持呢這個就涉及到憲法的層次所以你不敢講支不支持嗎還是你支持呢\n\n6\n00:02:22,424 --> 00:02:43,286\n以目前來講我們算在所謂的國家政府組織推行政務要直接對人民負責這樣的一個憲政體制底下對嘛所以你那你認不認同原住民自己選出主委或是原住民的領袖原住民領袖都有現在都各族群都有那你指的是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:44,312 --> 00:02:46,653\n原住民自治應該不是只有說選出最高領袖還有最高議會\n\n8\n00:03:12,940 --> 00:03:27,035\n應該有更多原住民自治的事項的問題,譬如教育、經濟、文化、語言等等。在您的看法,這個給你多一點,給你30秒,你講一下你的概念跟想法。\n\n9\n00:03:27,936 --> 00:03:33,378\n我指的是更多原住民自治事項,語言只是其中一項。包括您教育的部分,因為有原住民教育法,民族教育這個區塊。\n\n10\n00:03:51,805 --> 00:03:58,758\n這個對於我們推動原住民自治這些比較具體實體事項的推動程序的規劃\n\n11\n00:04:00,659 --> 00:04:23,636\n你怎麼來推動?整體推動還是你們是採用分流立法?現在採用分流立法的方式因為以目前推動的相關工作包括所謂的鄉鎮市區長大概像以三地原住民鄉鎮所有的鄉鎮市區長是一定要具有原住民身份所以他就鄉來講他算是一個鄉自治的一個機制\n\n12\n00:04:26,465 --> 00:04:43,130\n對阿,所以您現在所講的很多分流的推動,很多都是周邊的事務嘛。是。那一些比較自治的核心事項,你有沒有想過?有,根本沒有辦法,因為自治上次提到過,因為它無盡的出在...那最核心的是什麼?\n\n13\n00:04:43,470 --> 00:05:05,602\n五進五出在立法院因為它涉及到整個行政區域的劃分這個也會面臨衝擊比如說花蓮、台東這兩個縣因為都是原住民鄉鎮為什麼會五進五出啊?草案從89年就開始提出草案是因為沒有共識還是怎麼樣?還是不完備?它裡面的爭議的議題很多比如說我舉一個例子\n\n14\n00:05:07,378 --> 00:05:26,274\n對於一個行政區域來講,他的影響,比如說花蓮台東兩個縣可能就會不存在了。他要民族自治的話,因為他只會跟原住民相正。所以會影響到我們一般非原住民的意思。也會影響到,對對對。所以這個需要比較久時間,大家要有共識。\n\n15\n00:05:27,915 --> 00:05:29,116\n二）委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n\n16\n00:05:44,950 --> 00:06:00,431\n接下來本席要就原民就業自治條例的部分來就教於您。行政院5月3號函告臺北新北,對不對?您應該很清楚。有關原住民就業自治條例部分條文無效。\n\n17\n00:06:02,052 --> 00:06:16,597\n雙北市政府分別在5月30、6月3號提起訴願。行政院原民會也回應了,地方政府提出訴願將循程序進行。副主委,請問無效的理由是什麼?\n\n18\n00:06:26,690 --> 00:06:38,729\n各位委員報告因為這個雙北的那個自治條例因為目前我們有原住民族工作權保障法主要有第四條第五條還有政府採購法的相關規定已經有規範了所以抵觸的是這兩部法律\n\n19\n00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,943\n委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n\n20\n00:06:58,542 --> 00:07:24,080\n一律依差額人數乘以每個月基本工資來計算繳納貸金經過司法院第810號解釋是違憲而且特別提到說要致辭這最慢於本解釋公布之日是110年10月8日起兩年內要依據\n\n21\n00:07:25,381 --> 00:07:36,645\n這一個司法院的解釋違憲的意旨要修正之。他兩年內要修正。我們現在已經超過兩年又八個月了。為什麼沒有修正?兩年多了,還所謂送進立法院。那為什麼沒有審?\n\n22\n00:07:48,379 --> 00:08:16,452\n什麼時候送進立法院的?今年2月的時候,行政院...今年2月,今年2月也已經超過這個兩年,兩年內你今年2月已經超過兩年四個月才送進立法院所以過去這兩年四個月在做什麼?去年在9月的時候已經送過,然後今年又再送第二次所以9月的時候沒有審完是不是?完全沒審那你們有沒有去拜託召委排案啊?執政黨每一個委員會都也有召委\n\n23\n00:08:18,309 --> 00:08:45,649\n所以我們最想知道那你們的立場跟態度是什麼?究竟打算怎麼做?就是因為你說你們都回復說已經送立法院了這個答案我知道啊但是就這句話然後繼續躺在那對不對繼續躺然後都一直過期那你到底有沒有真的想要做維護原住民族的這個工作權保障?\n\n24\n00:08:48,433 --> 00:08:48,513\n徐欣瑩\n\n25\n00:09:12,916 --> 00:09:13,978\n兩年又八個月,快三年了。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8209\t14492\t首先請教副主委您認為今天審議的法案是不是典型的原住民自治議題?\n26969\t52483\t是或不是就好了?這是組織法,是原民會的組織法規。那它算不算一種原住民自治的議題嗎?當然,如果說在整個行政運作上,原民自主自行,還有獨立的預算。對對對,我就問是或不是。那剛剛我也聽到林委員質詢的時候,您支持原住民自治嗎?\n53784\t70229\t您要表達支持嗎?支持那如果不討論人事、法規、行政院組織等等您贊不贊成提案主委山原平原輪座的主張?您贊不贊成?我先了解山原平原輪座的主張\n83339\t112553\t因為這樣的輪流主張,它也涉及到未來提名的任命的權利的部分。對,那您贊不贊成嗎?不要浪費我時間,您贊不贊成?贊成或不贊成?以目前來講,目前原命會推動還算順利啦,因為從剛剛委員提出的幾個。好,所以您贊成嘛,贊成嘛。好,那這個目前提案的這種自治應該還算是蠻低度的自治吧?\n113664\t139155\t更為包括因為自治是一個很龐雜的一個議題可能要有配套的措施對啊對啊所以目前的提案都算比較低度的吧那我現在提比較強度更高的就是由原住民自己選主委或是原住民的領袖主委你的看法支不支持呢這個就涉及到憲法的層次所以你不敢講支不支持嗎還是你支持呢\n142424\t163286\t以目前來講我們算在所謂的國家政府組織推行政務要直接對人民負責這樣的一個憲政體制底下對嘛所以你那你認不認同原住民自己選出主委或是原住民的領袖原住民領袖都有現在都各族群都有那你指的是什麼\n164312\t166653\t原住民自治應該不是只有說選出最高領袖還有最高議會\n192940\t207035\t應該有更多原住民自治的事項的問題,譬如教育、經濟、文化、語言等等。在您的看法,這個給你多一點,給你30秒,你講一下你的概念跟想法。\n207936\t213378\t我指的是更多原住民自治事項,語言只是其中一項。包括您教育的部分,因為有原住民教育法,民族教育這個區塊。\n231805\t238758\t這個對於我們推動原住民自治這些比較具體實體事項的推動程序的規劃\n240659\t263636\t你怎麼來推動?整體推動還是你們是採用分流立法?現在採用分流立法的方式因為以目前推動的相關工作包括所謂的鄉鎮市區長大概像以三地原住民鄉鎮所有的鄉鎮市區長是一定要具有原住民身份所以他就鄉來講他算是一個鄉自治的一個機制\n266465\t283130\t對阿,所以您現在所講的很多分流的推動,很多都是周邊的事務嘛。是。那一些比較自治的核心事項,你有沒有想過?有,根本沒有辦法,因為自治上次提到過,因為它無盡的出在...那最核心的是什麼?\n283470\t305602\t五進五出在立法院因為它涉及到整個行政區域的劃分這個也會面臨衝擊比如說花蓮、台東這兩個縣因為都是原住民鄉鎮為什麼會五進五出啊?草案從89年就開始提出草案是因為沒有共識還是怎麼樣?還是不完備?它裡面的爭議的議題很多比如說我舉一個例子\n307378\t326274\t對於一個行政區域來講,他的影響,比如說花蓮台東兩個縣可能就會不存在了。他要民族自治的話,因為他只會跟原住民相正。所以會影響到我們一般非原住民的意思。也會影響到,對對對。所以這個需要比較久時間,大家要有共識。\n327915\t329116\t二）委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n344950\t360431\t接下來本席要就原民就業自治條例的部分來就教於您。行政院5月3號函告臺北新北,對不對?您應該很清楚。有關原住民就業自治條例部分條文無效。\n362052\t376597\t雙北市政府分別在5月30、6月3號提起訴願。行政院原民會也回應了,地方政府提出訴願將循程序進行。副主委,請問無效的理由是什麼?\n386690\t398729\t各位委員報告因為這個雙北的那個自治條例因為目前我們有原住民族工作權保障法主要有第四條第五條還有政府採購法的相關規定已經有規範了所以抵觸的是這兩部法律\n400640\t402943\t委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n418542\t444080\t一律依差額人數乘以每個月基本工資來計算繳納貸金經過司法院第810號解釋是違憲而且特別提到說要致辭這最慢於本解釋公布之日是110年10月8日起兩年內要依據\n445381\t456645\t這一個司法院的解釋違憲的意旨要修正之。他兩年內要修正。我們現在已經超過兩年又八個月了。為什麼沒有修正?兩年多了,還所謂送進立法院。那為什麼沒有審?\n468379\t496452\t什麼時候送進立法院的?今年2月的時候,行政院...今年2月,今年2月也已經超過這個兩年,兩年內你今年2月已經超過兩年四個月才送進立法院所以過去這兩年四個月在做什麼?去年在9月的時候已經送過,然後今年又再送第二次所以9月的時候沒有審完是不是?完全沒審那你們有沒有去拜託召委排案啊?執政黨每一個委員會都也有召委\n498309\t525649\t所以我們最想知道那你們的立場跟態度是什麼?究竟打算怎麼做?就是因為你說你們都回復說已經送立法院了這個答案我知道啊但是就這句話然後繼續躺在那對不對繼續躺然後都一直過期那你到底有沒有真的想要做維護原住民族的這個工作權保障?\n528433\t528513\t徐欣瑩\n552916\t553978\t兩年又八個月,快三年了。\n","txt":"首先請教副主委您認為今天審議的法案是不是典型的原住民自治議題?\n是或不是就好了?這是組織法,是原民會的組織法規。那它算不算一種原住民自治的議題嗎?當然,如果說在整個行政運作上,原民自主自行,還有獨立的預算。對對對,我就問是或不是。那剛剛我也聽到林委員質詢的時候,您支持原住民自治嗎?\n您要表達支持嗎?支持那如果不討論人事、法規、行政院組織等等您贊不贊成提案主委山原平原輪座的主張?您贊不贊成?我先了解山原平原輪座的主張\n因為這樣的輪流主張,它也涉及到未來提名的任命的權利的部分。對,那您贊不贊成嗎?不要浪費我時間,您贊不贊成?贊成或不贊成?以目前來講,目前原命會推動還算順利啦,因為從剛剛委員提出的幾個。好,所以您贊成嘛,贊成嘛。好,那這個目前提案的這種自治應該還算是蠻低度的自治吧?\n更為包括因為自治是一個很龐雜的一個議題可能要有配套的措施對啊對啊所以目前的提案都算比較低度的吧那我現在提比較強度更高的就是由原住民自己選主委或是原住民的領袖主委你的看法支不支持呢這個就涉及到憲法的層次所以你不敢講支不支持嗎還是你支持呢\n以目前來講我們算在所謂的國家政府組織推行政務要直接對人民負責這樣的一個憲政體制底下對嘛所以你那你認不認同原住民自己選出主委或是原住民的領袖原住民領袖都有現在都各族群都有那你指的是什麼\n原住民自治應該不是只有說選出最高領袖還有最高議會\n應該有更多原住民自治的事項的問題,譬如教育、經濟、文化、語言等等。在您的看法,這個給你多一點,給你30秒,你講一下你的概念跟想法。\n我指的是更多原住民自治事項,語言只是其中一項。包括您教育的部分,因為有原住民教育法,民族教育這個區塊。\n這個對於我們推動原住民自治這些比較具體實體事項的推動程序的規劃\n你怎麼來推動?整體推動還是你們是採用分流立法?現在採用分流立法的方式因為以目前推動的相關工作包括所謂的鄉鎮市區長大概像以三地原住民鄉鎮所有的鄉鎮市區長是一定要具有原住民身份所以他就鄉來講他算是一個鄉自治的一個機制\n對阿,所以您現在所講的很多分流的推動,很多都是周邊的事務嘛。是。那一些比較自治的核心事項,你有沒有想過?有,根本沒有辦法,因為自治上次提到過,因為它無盡的出在...那最核心的是什麼?\n五進五出在立法院因為它涉及到整個行政區域的劃分這個也會面臨衝擊比如說花蓮、台東這兩個縣因為都是原住民鄉鎮為什麼會五進五出啊?草案從89年就開始提出草案是因為沒有共識還是怎麼樣?還是不完備?它裡面的爭議的議題很多比如說我舉一個例子\n對於一個行政區域來講,他的影響,比如說花蓮台東兩個縣可能就會不存在了。他要民族自治的話,因為他只會跟原住民相正。所以會影響到我們一般非原住民的意思。也會影響到,對對對。所以這個需要比較久時間,大家要有共識。\n二）委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n接下來本席要就原民就業自治條例的部分來就教於您。行政院5月3號函告臺北新北,對不對?您應該很清楚。有關原住民就業自治條例部分條文無效。\n雙北市政府分別在5月30、6月3號提起訴願。行政院原民會也回應了,地方政府提出訴願將循程序進行。副主委,請問無效的理由是什麼?\n各位委員報告因為這個雙北的那個自治條例因為目前我們有原住民族工作權保障法主要有第四條第五條還有政府採購法的相關規定已經有規範了所以抵觸的是這兩部法律\n委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n一律依差額人數乘以每個月基本工資來計算繳納貸金經過司法院第810號解釋是違憲而且特別提到說要致辭這最慢於本解釋公布之日是110年10月8日起兩年內要依據\n這一個司法院的解釋違憲的意旨要修正之。他兩年內要修正。我們現在已經超過兩年又八個月了。為什麼沒有修正?兩年多了,還所謂送進立法院。那為什麼沒有審?\n什麼時候送進立法院的?今年2月的時候,行政院...今年2月,今年2月也已經超過這個兩年,兩年內你今年2月已經超過兩年四個月才送進立法院所以過去這兩年四個月在做什麼?去年在9月的時候已經送過,然後今年又再送第二次所以9月的時候沒有審完是不是?完全沒審那你們有沒有去拜託召委排案啊?執政黨每一個委員會都也有召委\n所以我們最想知道那你們的立場跟態度是什麼?究竟打算怎麼做?就是因為你說你們都回復說已經送立法院了這個答案我知道啊但是就這句話然後繼續躺在那對不對繼續躺然後都一直過期那你到底有沒有真的想要做維護原住民族的這個工作權保障?\n徐欣瑩\n兩年又八個月,快三年了。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.209 --> 00:14.492\n首先請教副主委您認為今天審議的法案是不是典型的原住民自治議題?\n\n00:26.969 --> 00:52.483\n是或不是就好了?這是組織法,是原民會的組織法規。那它算不算一種原住民自治的議題嗎?當然,如果說在整個行政運作上,原民自主自行,還有獨立的預算。對對對,我就問是或不是。那剛剛我也聽到林委員質詢的時候,您支持原住民自治嗎?\n\n00:53.784 --> 01:10.229\n您要表達支持嗎?支持那如果不討論人事、法規、行政院組織等等您贊不贊成提案主委山原平原輪座的主張?您贊不贊成?我先了解山原平原輪座的主張\n\n01:23.339 --> 01:52.553\n因為這樣的輪流主張,它也涉及到未來提名的任命的權利的部分。對,那您贊不贊成嗎?不要浪費我時間,您贊不贊成?贊成或不贊成?以目前來講,目前原命會推動還算順利啦,因為從剛剛委員提出的幾個。好,所以您贊成嘛,贊成嘛。好,那這個目前提案的這種自治應該還算是蠻低度的自治吧?\n\n01:53.664 --> 02:19.155\n更為包括因為自治是一個很龐雜的一個議題可能要有配套的措施對啊對啊所以目前的提案都算比較低度的吧那我現在提比較強度更高的就是由原住民自己選主委或是原住民的領袖主委你的看法支不支持呢這個就涉及到憲法的層次所以你不敢講支不支持嗎還是你支持呢\n\n02:22.424 --> 02:43.286\n以目前來講我們算在所謂的國家政府組織推行政務要直接對人民負責這樣的一個憲政體制底下對嘛所以你那你認不認同原住民自己選出主委或是原住民的領袖原住民領袖都有現在都各族群都有那你指的是什麼\n\n02:44.312 --> 02:46.653\n原住民自治應該不是只有說選出最高領袖還有最高議會\n\n03:12.940 --> 03:27.035\n應該有更多原住民自治的事項的問題,譬如教育、經濟、文化、語言等等。在您的看法,這個給你多一點,給你30秒,你講一下你的概念跟想法。\n\n03:27.936 --> 03:33.378\n我指的是更多原住民自治事項,語言只是其中一項。包括您教育的部分,因為有原住民教育法,民族教育這個區塊。\n\n03:51.805 --> 03:58.758\n這個對於我們推動原住民自治這些比較具體實體事項的推動程序的規劃\n\n04:00.659 --> 04:23.636\n你怎麼來推動?整體推動還是你們是採用分流立法?現在採用分流立法的方式因為以目前推動的相關工作包括所謂的鄉鎮市區長大概像以三地原住民鄉鎮所有的鄉鎮市區長是一定要具有原住民身份所以他就鄉來講他算是一個鄉自治的一個機制\n\n04:26.465 --> 04:43.130\n對阿,所以您現在所講的很多分流的推動,很多都是周邊的事務嘛。是。那一些比較自治的核心事項,你有沒有想過?有,根本沒有辦法,因為自治上次提到過,因為它無盡的出在...那最核心的是什麼?\n\n04:43.470 --> 05:05.602\n五進五出在立法院因為它涉及到整個行政區域的劃分這個也會面臨衝擊比如說花蓮、台東這兩個縣因為都是原住民鄉鎮為什麼會五進五出啊?草案從89年就開始提出草案是因為沒有共識還是怎麼樣?還是不完備?它裡面的爭議的議題很多比如說我舉一個例子\n\n05:07.378 --> 05:26.274\n對於一個行政區域來講,他的影響,比如說花蓮台東兩個縣可能就會不存在了。他要民族自治的話,因為他只會跟原住民相正。所以會影響到我們一般非原住民的意思。也會影響到,對對對。所以這個需要比較久時間,大家要有共識。\n\n05:27.915 --> 05:29.116\n二）委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n\n05:44.950 --> 06:00.431\n接下來本席要就原民就業自治條例的部分來就教於您。行政院5月3號函告臺北新北,對不對?您應該很清楚。有關原住民就業自治條例部分條文無效。\n\n06:02.052 --> 06:16.597\n雙北市政府分別在5月30、6月3號提起訴願。行政院原民會也回應了,地方政府提出訴願將循程序進行。副主委,請問無效的理由是什麼?\n\n06:26.690 --> 06:38.729\n各位委員報告因為這個雙北的那個自治條例因為目前我們有原住民族工作權保障法主要有第四條第五條還有政府採購法的相關規定已經有規範了所以抵觸的是這兩部法律\n\n06:40.640 --> 06:42.943\n委員高金素梅等24人擬具\n\n06:58.542 --> 07:24.080\n一律依差額人數乘以每個月基本工資來計算繳納貸金經過司法院第810號解釋是違憲而且特別提到說要致辭這最慢於本解釋公布之日是110年10月8日起兩年內要依據\n\n07:25.381 --> 07:36.645\n這一個司法院的解釋違憲的意旨要修正之。他兩年內要修正。我們現在已經超過兩年又八個月了。為什麼沒有修正?兩年多了,還所謂送進立法院。那為什麼沒有審?\n\n07:48.379 --> 08:16.452\n什麼時候送進立法院的?今年2月的時候,行政院...今年2月,今年2月也已經超過這個兩年,兩年內你今年2月已經超過兩年四個月才送進立法院所以過去這兩年四個月在做什麼?去年在9月的時候已經送過,然後今年又再送第二次所以9月的時候沒有審完是不是?完全沒審那你們有沒有去拜託召委排案啊?執政黨每一個委員會都也有召委\n\n08:18.309 --> 08:45.649\n所以我們最想知道那你們的立場跟態度是什麼?究竟打算怎麼做?就是因為你說你們都回復說已經送立法院了這個答案我知道啊但是就這句話然後繼續躺在那對不對繼續躺然後都一直過期那你到底有沒有真的想要做維護原住民族的這個工作權保障?\n\n08:48.433 --> 08:48.513\n徐欣瑩\n\n09:12.916 --> 09:13.978\n兩年又八個月,快三年了。\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.209,"end":14.492,"text":"首先請教副主委您認為今天審議的法案是不是典型的原住民自治議題?"},{"start":26.969,"end":52.483,"text":"是或不是就好了?這是組織法,是原民會的組織法規。那它算不算一種原住民自治的議題嗎?當然,如果說在整個行政運作上,原民自主自行,還有獨立的預算。對對對,我就問是或不是。那剛剛我也聽到林委員質詢的時候,您支持原住民自治嗎?"},{"start":53.784,"end":70.229,"text":"您要表達支持嗎?支持那如果不討論人事、法規、行政院組織等等您贊不贊成提案主委山原平原輪座的主張?您贊不贊成?我先了解山原平原輪座的主張"},{"start":83.339,"end":112.553,"text":"因為這樣的輪流主張,它也涉及到未來提名的任命的權利的部分。對,那您贊不贊成嗎?不要浪費我時間,您贊不贊成?贊成或不贊成?以目前來講,目前原命會推動還算順利啦,因為從剛剛委員提出的幾個。好,所以您贊成嘛,贊成嘛。好,那這個目前提案的這種自治應該還算是蠻低度的自治吧?"},{"start":113.664,"end":139.155,"text":"更為包括因為自治是一個很龐雜的一個議題可能要有配套的措施對啊對啊所以目前的提案都算比較低度的吧那我現在提比較強度更高的就是由原住民自己選主委或是原住民的領袖主委你的看法支不支持呢這個就涉及到憲法的層次所以你不敢講支不支持嗎還是你支持呢"},{"start":142.424,"end":163.286,"text":"以目前來講我們算在所謂的國家政府組織推行政務要直接對人民負責這樣的一個憲政體制底下對嘛所以你那你認不認同原住民自己選出主委或是原住民的領袖原住民領袖都有現在都各族群都有那你指的是什麼"},{"start":164.312,"end":166.653,"text":"原住民自治應該不是只有說選出最高領袖還有最高議會"},{"start":192.94,"end":207.035,"text":"應該有更多原住民自治的事項的問題,譬如教育、經濟、文化、語言等等。在您的看法,這個給你多一點,給你30秒,你講一下你的概念跟想法。"},{"start":207.936,"end":213.378,"text":"我指的是更多原住民自治事項,語言只是其中一項。包括您教育的部分,因為有原住民教育法,民族教育這個區塊。"},{"start":231.805,"end":238.758,"text":"這個對於我們推動原住民自治這些比較具體實體事項的推動程序的規劃"},{"start":240.659,"end":263.636,"text":"你怎麼來推動?整體推動還是你們是採用分流立法?現在採用分流立法的方式因為以目前推動的相關工作包括所謂的鄉鎮市區長大概像以三地原住民鄉鎮所有的鄉鎮市區長是一定要具有原住民身份所以他就鄉來講他算是一個鄉自治的一個機制"},{"start":266.465,"end":283.13,"text":"對阿,所以您現在所講的很多分流的推動,很多都是周邊的事務嘛。是。那一些比較自治的核心事項,你有沒有想過?有,根本沒有辦法,因為自治上次提到過,因為它無盡的出在...那最核心的是什麼?"},{"start":283.47,"end":305.602,"text":"五進五出在立法院因為它涉及到整個行政區域的劃分這個也會面臨衝擊比如說花蓮、台東這兩個縣因為都是原住民鄉鎮為什麼會五進五出啊?草案從89年就開始提出草案是因為沒有共識還是怎麼樣?還是不完備?它裡面的爭議的議題很多比如說我舉一個例子"},{"start":307.378,"end":326.274,"text":"對於一個行政區域來講,他的影響,比如說花蓮台東兩個縣可能就會不存在了。他要民族自治的話,因為他只會跟原住民相正。所以會影響到我們一般非原住民的意思。也會影響到,對對對。所以這個需要比較久時間,大家要有共識。"},{"start":327.915,"end":329.116,"text":"二）委員高金素梅等24人擬具"},{"start":344.95,"end":360.431,"text":"接下來本席要就原民就業自治條例的部分來就教於您。行政院5月3號函告臺北新北,對不對?您應該很清楚。有關原住民就業自治條例部分條文無效。"},{"start":362.052,"end":376.597,"text":"雙北市政府分別在5月30、6月3號提起訴願。行政院原民會也回應了,地方政府提出訴願將循程序進行。副主委,請問無效的理由是什麼?"},{"start":386.69,"end":398.729,"text":"各位委員報告因為這個雙北的那個自治條例因為目前我們有原住民族工作權保障法主要有第四條第五條還有政府採購法的相關規定已經有規範了所以抵觸的是這兩部法律"},{"start":400.64,"end":402.943,"text":"委員高金素梅等24人擬具"},{"start":418.542,"end":444.08,"text":"一律依差額人數乘以每個月基本工資來計算繳納貸金經過司法院第810號解釋是違憲而且特別提到說要致辭這最慢於本解釋公布之日是110年10月8日起兩年內要依據"},{"start":445.381,"end":456.645,"text":"這一個司法院的解釋違憲的意旨要修正之。他兩年內要修正。我們現在已經超過兩年又八個月了。為什麼沒有修正?兩年多了,還所謂送進立法院。那為什麼沒有審?"},{"start":468.379,"end":496.452,"text":"什麼時候送進立法院的?今年2月的時候,行政院...今年2月,今年2月也已經超過這個兩年,兩年內你今年2月已經超過兩年四個月才送進立法院所以過去這兩年四個月在做什麼?去年在9月的時候已經送過,然後今年又再送第二次所以9月的時候沒有審完是不是?完全沒審那你們有沒有去拜託召委排案啊?執政黨每一個委員會都也有召委"},{"start":498.309,"end":525.649,"text":"所以我們最想知道那你們的立場跟態度是什麼?究竟打算怎麼做?就是因為你說你們都回復說已經送立法院了這個答案我知道啊但是就這句話然後繼續躺在那對不對繼續躺然後都一直過期那你到底有沒有真的想要做維護原住民族的這個工作權保障?"},{"start":528.433,"end":528.513,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":552.916,"end":553.978,"text":"兩年又八個月,快三年了。"}]}}}}