{"id":154376,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154376","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/767b6a9d27b3726c6bcdc1c728c06b5221a3f23b3ad13ea2ef8091c70453fc49f2c2abc92875f3cc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:56:58 - 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{\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 554.438, \"end\": 554.578, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 554.578, \"end\": 554.718, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 554.718, \"end\": 554.738, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 554.738, \"end\": 554.818, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"釐\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 554.818, \"end\": 554.838, \"score\": 0.082}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,804 --> 00:00:10,204\n主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長我們再請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:18,735 --> 00:00:23,618\n臺北新北桃園臺中高雄五個地檢署都說有接獲到民眾告發或是檢方的檢報分案依時安法或是偽造文書五路期發分案調查\n\n3\n00:00:42,068 --> 00:01:09,373\n那到今天有平面媒體報導說9個月了都沒有任何約談相關人士你自己也證實說你沒有被約談我本人我並沒有接受到約談那知道我們農業部有沒有相關人士有被約談或是這個我就沒有去詢問你沒有去詢問對我沒有去詢問所以我確認部長你覺得超思雞蛋這個爭議到現在一年多的時間了到底對農業部的形象好不好\n\n4\n00:01:10,430 --> 00:01:37,263\n我覺得會不會希望也如果說真的有人謀不章查出來如果真的沒有還農業部清白還業務同仁辛苦清白這是我的原則所以說那怎麼會您自己也不關心也不了解沒有我強調的就是說檢調單位查處本身如果說有不能不法我覺得不會寬待但是如果沒有不法也要還我們同仁一個清白是啊那但是9個月過去了都還沒有都還沒有讓國人釐清相對的齁\n\n5\n00:01:39,606 --> 00:01:50,661\n部長您的態度是什麼我想能夠把事情透過程序裡面把事情釐清是最重要的但是現在看到的就是在司法還沒有就是檢調單位還沒有\n\n6\n00:01:52,673 --> 00:02:19,611\n確認之前有很多外界的聲音就讓其實讓同仁非常困擾因為以農業部來講就是讓同仁如果說覺得困擾才更應該趕快水落石出嘛因為越滾越大從陳吉仲部長到現在你一樣都是陳部長啊但是我覺得現在國人關注的重點是到底真相為何不管是說超市雞蛋那時候花5.7億來去做補助不管說進口了這個\n\n7\n00:02:21,272 --> 00:02:40,330\n一億多顆的這個雞蛋八千多顆的雞蛋巴西來的那到現在到底真相為何還有這個不同公司簽約是A公司然後結果付款是B公司那九個月過去而今天看到這樣的一個媒體結果本席看到你回應媒體講是說我們也希望減掉建樹\n\n8\n00:02:41,618 --> 00:03:07,514\n那如果說競速號不是更應該要我們主動積極、機關主動積極的協助來辦理嗎?對,我想檢調如果任何的一個約談或是...所以看起來你沒有被約談?我是沒被約談。下面同仁就你了解也沒有?我沒有去問,所以我不清楚。那到底有沒有人知道?我們同仁說目前沒有。也沒有。那看起來前部長陳吉仲也沒有。所以都沒有?\n\n9\n00:03:08,647 --> 00:03:13,450\n國人那麼關心的一個案件結果剪掉到現在也難怪媒體會用頭版頭來報導啊九個月了無盡度嘛\n\n10\n00:03:19,265 --> 00:03:29,735\n來部長那我再請教今天我更看到的是裡面有提到一個是說因為採購生鮮雞蛋帶殼雞蛋是屬於生鮮的農漁產品非屬採購法的採購標的但是冷藏倉儲跟雞蛋托運費用是全額補助那依規定是用採購法那沒有用採購法辦理對不對\n\n11\n00:03:44,429 --> 00:03:54,314\n從昨天調查報告是這樣子顯示的那我們現在是要追回五成的補助款對針對他應該用適用這種採購法的部分你的理由是什麼會認為是說他應該用採購法他沒有用採購法\n\n12\n00:04:00,093 --> 00:04:14,290\n這個我想我發30秒的時間說明一下就是當初續產會在處理這個案子的時候他認為因為雞蛋不是用政府採購法那後續的倉儲跟運輸他們覺得是因為他相對進的少他覺得應該是一批的啦\n\n13\n00:04:15,171 --> 00:04:42,057\n但是後來我們行政調查看起來是便宜形式對然後行政單位去看說後面兩個應該適合採購法那根據這個東西我們會依法把這個錢把它追回來所以照理講我們想請教那個中央續產會他到底應不應該遵守採購法他沒有他用自己的資金都不用他只要牽扯到跟政府補助的才有所謂的適不適用政府採購法的問題\n\n14\n00:04:43,902 --> 00:05:08,531\n但他的資金來源呢?不也是我們這邊會有相關的一個補助嗎?對所以說在110年他是一個例行的政府採購嘛例行的那個產價調節所以他有計畫上來我們有合計畫下去那有合計畫下去的話合計畫下去也算是政府補助不是嗎?對所以說他不適合的時候就要追回就要追回好那我們來看一下去年的公文\n\n15\n00:05:10,694 --> 00:05:23,825\n工程會已經明白確認了冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是冷凍處理非屬生鮮農漁產品適用採購法那去年有什麼樣的一個去年有什麼樣的狀況去年狀況講說\n\n16\n00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:26,039\n這是112年的嗎?\n\n17\n00:05:42,333 --> 00:06:06,258\n這是112年?2023年啊?112年的部分是所有的那個作業都是續廠會先用他自有資金處理那我們後面的計畫合定補助的設置在後面所以他不符合政府採購法的我們就給他50%以下所以沒有所謂的追求問題是!所以部長我們的冷凍蛋黃跟冷凍蛋液有給他50%以下嗎?就是給他50%以下沒有啊!\n\n18\n00:06:08,078 --> 00:06:31,283\n你之前去年巴西進口的冷凍大法冷凍法也是一樣直接讓他做採購啊沒有你並沒有讓他去用採購法裡面不管是招標或是相關啊他如果沒有採購法的話我們的補助就是低於50%就這樣子沒有這個是去年本席現在拿出來的資料就是去年9月的時候我們有委員在質詢去年10月的時候我們有委員在質詢\n\n19\n00:06:33,304 --> 00:06:40,718\n這個省記長省記長講是說這一些狀況要去釐清結果省記長居然講是說3個月內調查完畢那目前調查狀況勒?\n\n20\n00:06:42,506 --> 00:07:09,250\n沈記長那時候講是說確實純有爭議代理清要先確認雞蛋是不是生鮮魚農產品那還有冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是不是生鮮魚農產品那我們委員去年的時候我們的委員林維周委員就拿出這個公文就說我們在10月3號的時候就問工程會到底冷凍蛋黃跟蛋液是不是農漁產品那工程會說不是嘛那現在三個月過去了我們到底有沒有去有\n\n21\n00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:12,851\n有交回50%嗎?有低於50%嗎?所以現在本席就要確認因為今天媒體報導已經講是說你的\n\n22\n00:07:37,457 --> 00:08:02,729\n冷藏倉儲跟脫軌費用要收回50%嗎?那我們現在要問過去補助的冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液有沒有要去了解?是不是如果說有補助100%也要收回50%?我現在只問的是是不是一定適用?一定一筆適用就是112年部分如果說他該適用政府採購他沒適用的話就會追回但如果說\n\n23\n00:08:03,709 --> 00:08:24,806\n他先買了我們在核定補助在後的時候我就一定不會超過50%是所以這個就是重點嘛那什麼時候可以把資料釐清因為之前就是有爆發中央市長會就是去購買巴西的或是相關的冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃但他沒有用採購法他也直接用合約方式就直接採購了\n\n24\n00:08:26,127 --> 00:08:51,763\n所以才會讓我們去年有這樣的疑慮並且要求省紀部來去做瞭解省紀部說3個月要給資料到目前也是不了了之那本席就直接請教因為你們已經講了冷凍倉儲只要是符合採購法的追回50%那一樣冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液符合採購法這您剛剛已經承認了工程會也公文了那現在什麼時候要去釐清到底過去有哪一些是百分百補助要追回50%\n\n25\n00:08:53,486 --> 00:09:14,838\n我想是不是委員可以給我一個禮拜的時間我這樣讓續長會去把這個資料調出來一個禮拜的時間就把它調出來然後調出來如果非常清楚的我會把這個這個我們所以包含冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液最主要是冷凍蛋黃該該用採購法的部分我把它挑出來是一個禮拜時間請給本席及經濟委員會資料釐清謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8804\t10204\t主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長我們再請陳部長\n18735\t23618\t臺北新北桃園臺中高雄五個地檢署都說有接獲到民眾告發或是檢方的檢報分案依時安法或是偽造文書五路期發分案調查\n42068\t69373\t那到今天有平面媒體報導說9個月了都沒有任何約談相關人士你自己也證實說你沒有被約談我本人我並沒有接受到約談那知道我們農業部有沒有相關人士有被約談或是這個我就沒有去詢問你沒有去詢問對我沒有去詢問所以我確認部長你覺得超思雞蛋這個爭議到現在一年多的時間了到底對農業部的形象好不好\n70430\t97263\t我覺得會不會希望也如果說真的有人謀不章查出來如果真的沒有還農業部清白還業務同仁辛苦清白這是我的原則所以說那怎麼會您自己也不關心也不了解沒有我強調的就是說檢調單位查處本身如果說有不能不法我覺得不會寬待但是如果沒有不法也要還我們同仁一個清白是啊那但是9個月過去了都還沒有都還沒有讓國人釐清相對的齁\n99606\t110661\t部長您的態度是什麼我想能夠把事情透過程序裡面把事情釐清是最重要的但是現在看到的就是在司法還沒有就是檢調單位還沒有\n112673\t139611\t確認之前有很多外界的聲音就讓其實讓同仁非常困擾因為以農業部來講就是讓同仁如果說覺得困擾才更應該趕快水落石出嘛因為越滾越大從陳吉仲部長到現在你一樣都是陳部長啊但是我覺得現在國人關注的重點是到底真相為何不管是說超市雞蛋那時候花5.7億來去做補助不管說進口了這個\n141272\t160330\t一億多顆的這個雞蛋八千多顆的雞蛋巴西來的那到現在到底真相為何還有這個不同公司簽約是A公司然後結果付款是B公司那九個月過去而今天看到這樣的一個媒體結果本席看到你回應媒體講是說我們也希望減掉建樹\n161618\t187514\t那如果說競速號不是更應該要我們主動積極、機關主動積極的協助來辦理嗎?對,我想檢調如果任何的一個約談或是...所以看起來你沒有被約談?我是沒被約談。下面同仁就你了解也沒有?我沒有去問,所以我不清楚。那到底有沒有人知道?我們同仁說目前沒有。也沒有。那看起來前部長陳吉仲也沒有。所以都沒有?\n188647\t193450\t國人那麼關心的一個案件結果剪掉到現在也難怪媒體會用頭版頭來報導啊九個月了無盡度嘛\n199265\t209735\t來部長那我再請教今天我更看到的是裡面有提到一個是說因為採購生鮮雞蛋帶殼雞蛋是屬於生鮮的農漁產品非屬採購法的採購標的但是冷藏倉儲跟雞蛋托運費用是全額補助那依規定是用採購法那沒有用採購法辦理對不對\n224429\t234314\t從昨天調查報告是這樣子顯示的那我們現在是要追回五成的補助款對針對他應該用適用這種採購法的部分你的理由是什麼會認為是說他應該用採購法他沒有用採購法\n240093\t254290\t這個我想我發30秒的時間說明一下就是當初續產會在處理這個案子的時候他認為因為雞蛋不是用政府採購法那後續的倉儲跟運輸他們覺得是因為他相對進的少他覺得應該是一批的啦\n255171\t282057\t但是後來我們行政調查看起來是便宜形式對 然後行政單位去看說後面兩個應該適合採購法那根據這個東西我們會依法把這個錢把它追回來所以照理講我們想請教那個中央續產會他到底應不應該遵守採購法他沒有他用自己的資金都不用他只要牽扯到跟政府補助的才有所謂的適不適用政府採購法的問題\n283902\t308531\t但他的資金來源呢?不也是我們這邊會有相關的一個補助嗎?對 所以說在110年他是一個例行的政府採購嘛 例行的那個產價調節所以他有計畫上來 我們有合計畫下去 那有合計畫下去的話合計畫下去也算是政府補助不是嗎?對 所以說他不適合的時候就要追回就要追回 好 那我們來看一下去年的公文\n310694\t323825\t工程會已經明白確認了冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是冷凍處理非屬生鮮農漁產品適用採購法那去年有什麼樣的一個 去年有什麼樣的狀況去年狀況講說\n325839\t326039\t這是112年的嗎?\n342333\t366258\t這是112年?2023年啊?112年的部分是所有的那個作業都是續廠會先用他自有資金處理那我們後面的計畫合定補助的設置在後面所以他不符合政府採購法的我們就給他50%以下所以沒有所謂的追求問題是!所以部長我們的冷凍蛋黃跟冷凍蛋液有給他50%以下嗎?就是給他50%以下 沒有啊!\n368078\t391283\t你之前去年巴西進口的冷凍大法冷凍法也是一樣直接讓他做採購啊沒有你並沒有讓他去用採購法裡面不管是招標或是相關啊他如果沒有採購法的話我們的補助就是低於50%就這樣子沒有這個是去年本席現在拿出來的資料就是去年9月的時候我們有委員在質詢去年10月的時候我們有委員在質詢\n393304\t400718\t這個省記長省記長講是說這一些狀況要去釐清結果省記長居然講是說3個月內調查完畢那目前調查狀況勒?\n402506\t429250\t沈記長那時候講是說確實純有爭議代理清要先確認雞蛋是不是生鮮魚農產品那還有冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是不是生鮮魚農產品那我們委員去年的時候我們的委員林維周委員就拿出這個公文就說我們在10月3號的時候就問工程會到底冷凍蛋黃跟蛋液是不是農漁產品那工程會說不是嘛那現在三個月過去了我們到底有沒有去有\n430350\t432851\t有交回50%嗎?有低於50%嗎?所以現在本席就要確認因為今天媒體報導已經講是說你的\n457457\t482729\t冷藏倉儲跟脫軌費用要收回50%嗎?那我們現在要問過去補助的冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液有沒有要去了解?是不是如果說有補助100%也要收回50%?我現在只問的是是不是一定適用?一定一筆適用就是112年部分如果說他該適用政府採購他沒適用的話就會追回但如果說\n483709\t504806\t他先買了我們在核定補助在後的時候我就一定不會超過50%是 所以這個就是重點嘛那什麼時候可以把資料釐清因為之前就是有爆發中央市長會就是去購買巴西的或是相關的冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃但他沒有用採購法他也直接用合約方式就直接採購了\n506127\t531763\t所以才會讓我們去年有這樣的疑慮並且要求省紀部來去做瞭解省紀部說3個月要給資料到目前也是不了了之那本席就直接請教因為你們已經講了冷凍倉儲只要是符合採購法的追回50%那一樣冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液符合採購法這您剛剛已經承認了工程會也公文了那現在什麼時候要去釐清到底過去有哪一些是百分百補助要追回50%\n533486\t554838\t我想是不是委員可以給我一個禮拜的時間我這樣讓續長會去把這個資料調出來一個禮拜的時間就把它調出來然後調出來如果非常清楚的我會把這個這個我們所以包含冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液最主要是冷凍蛋黃該該用採購法的部分我把它挑出來是一個禮拜時間請給本席及經濟委員會資料釐清謝謝\n","txt":"主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長我們再請陳部長\n臺北新北桃園臺中高雄五個地檢署都說有接獲到民眾告發或是檢方的檢報分案依時安法或是偽造文書五路期發分案調查\n那到今天有平面媒體報導說9個月了都沒有任何約談相關人士你自己也證實說你沒有被約談我本人我並沒有接受到約談那知道我們農業部有沒有相關人士有被約談或是這個我就沒有去詢問你沒有去詢問對我沒有去詢問所以我確認部長你覺得超思雞蛋這個爭議到現在一年多的時間了到底對農業部的形象好不好\n我覺得會不會希望也如果說真的有人謀不章查出來如果真的沒有還農業部清白還業務同仁辛苦清白這是我的原則所以說那怎麼會您自己也不關心也不了解沒有我強調的就是說檢調單位查處本身如果說有不能不法我覺得不會寬待但是如果沒有不法也要還我們同仁一個清白是啊那但是9個月過去了都還沒有都還沒有讓國人釐清相對的齁\n部長您的態度是什麼我想能夠把事情透過程序裡面把事情釐清是最重要的但是現在看到的就是在司法還沒有就是檢調單位還沒有\n確認之前有很多外界的聲音就讓其實讓同仁非常困擾因為以農業部來講就是讓同仁如果說覺得困擾才更應該趕快水落石出嘛因為越滾越大從陳吉仲部長到現在你一樣都是陳部長啊但是我覺得現在國人關注的重點是到底真相為何不管是說超市雞蛋那時候花5.7億來去做補助不管說進口了這個\n一億多顆的這個雞蛋八千多顆的雞蛋巴西來的那到現在到底真相為何還有這個不同公司簽約是A公司然後結果付款是B公司那九個月過去而今天看到這樣的一個媒體結果本席看到你回應媒體講是說我們也希望減掉建樹\n那如果說競速號不是更應該要我們主動積極、機關主動積極的協助來辦理嗎?對,我想檢調如果任何的一個約談或是...所以看起來你沒有被約談?我是沒被約談。下面同仁就你了解也沒有?我沒有去問,所以我不清楚。那到底有沒有人知道?我們同仁說目前沒有。也沒有。那看起來前部長陳吉仲也沒有。所以都沒有?\n國人那麼關心的一個案件結果剪掉到現在也難怪媒體會用頭版頭來報導啊九個月了無盡度嘛\n來部長那我再請教今天我更看到的是裡面有提到一個是說因為採購生鮮雞蛋帶殼雞蛋是屬於生鮮的農漁產品非屬採購法的採購標的但是冷藏倉儲跟雞蛋托運費用是全額補助那依規定是用採購法那沒有用採購法辦理對不對\n從昨天調查報告是這樣子顯示的那我們現在是要追回五成的補助款對針對他應該用適用這種採購法的部分你的理由是什麼會認為是說他應該用採購法他沒有用採購法\n這個我想我發30秒的時間說明一下就是當初續產會在處理這個案子的時候他認為因為雞蛋不是用政府採購法那後續的倉儲跟運輸他們覺得是因為他相對進的少他覺得應該是一批的啦\n但是後來我們行政調查看起來是便宜形式對 然後行政單位去看說後面兩個應該適合採購法那根據這個東西我們會依法把這個錢把它追回來所以照理講我們想請教那個中央續產會他到底應不應該遵守採購法他沒有他用自己的資金都不用他只要牽扯到跟政府補助的才有所謂的適不適用政府採購法的問題\n但他的資金來源呢?不也是我們這邊會有相關的一個補助嗎?對 所以說在110年他是一個例行的政府採購嘛 例行的那個產價調節所以他有計畫上來 我們有合計畫下去 那有合計畫下去的話合計畫下去也算是政府補助不是嗎?對 所以說他不適合的時候就要追回就要追回 好 那我們來看一下去年的公文\n工程會已經明白確認了冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是冷凍處理非屬生鮮農漁產品適用採購法那去年有什麼樣的一個 去年有什麼樣的狀況去年狀況講說\n這是112年的嗎?\n這是112年?2023年啊?112年的部分是所有的那個作業都是續廠會先用他自有資金處理那我們後面的計畫合定補助的設置在後面所以他不符合政府採購法的我們就給他50%以下所以沒有所謂的追求問題是!所以部長我們的冷凍蛋黃跟冷凍蛋液有給他50%以下嗎?就是給他50%以下 沒有啊!\n你之前去年巴西進口的冷凍大法冷凍法也是一樣直接讓他做採購啊沒有你並沒有讓他去用採購法裡面不管是招標或是相關啊他如果沒有採購法的話我們的補助就是低於50%就這樣子沒有這個是去年本席現在拿出來的資料就是去年9月的時候我們有委員在質詢去年10月的時候我們有委員在質詢\n這個省記長省記長講是說這一些狀況要去釐清結果省記長居然講是說3個月內調查完畢那目前調查狀況勒?\n沈記長那時候講是說確實純有爭議代理清要先確認雞蛋是不是生鮮魚農產品那還有冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是不是生鮮魚農產品那我們委員去年的時候我們的委員林維周委員就拿出這個公文就說我們在10月3號的時候就問工程會到底冷凍蛋黃跟蛋液是不是農漁產品那工程會說不是嘛那現在三個月過去了我們到底有沒有去有\n有交回50%嗎?有低於50%嗎?所以現在本席就要確認因為今天媒體報導已經講是說你的\n冷藏倉儲跟脫軌費用要收回50%嗎?那我們現在要問過去補助的冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液有沒有要去了解?是不是如果說有補助100%也要收回50%?我現在只問的是是不是一定適用?一定一筆適用就是112年部分如果說他該適用政府採購他沒適用的話就會追回但如果說\n他先買了我們在核定補助在後的時候我就一定不會超過50%是 所以這個就是重點嘛那什麼時候可以把資料釐清因為之前就是有爆發中央市長會就是去購買巴西的或是相關的冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃但他沒有用採購法他也直接用合約方式就直接採購了\n所以才會讓我們去年有這樣的疑慮並且要求省紀部來去做瞭解省紀部說3個月要給資料到目前也是不了了之那本席就直接請教因為你們已經講了冷凍倉儲只要是符合採購法的追回50%那一樣冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液符合採購法這您剛剛已經承認了工程會也公文了那現在什麼時候要去釐清到底過去有哪一些是百分百補助要追回50%\n我想是不是委員可以給我一個禮拜的時間我這樣讓續長會去把這個資料調出來一個禮拜的時間就把它調出來然後調出來如果非常清楚的我會把這個這個我們所以包含冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液最主要是冷凍蛋黃該該用採購法的部分我把它挑出來是一個禮拜時間請給本席及經濟委員會資料釐清謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.804 --> 00:10.204\n主席謝謝麻煩請陳部長我們再請陳部長\n\n00:18.735 --> 00:23.618\n臺北新北桃園臺中高雄五個地檢署都說有接獲到民眾告發或是檢方的檢報分案依時安法或是偽造文書五路期發分案調查\n\n00:42.068 --> 01:09.373\n那到今天有平面媒體報導說9個月了都沒有任何約談相關人士你自己也證實說你沒有被約談我本人我並沒有接受到約談那知道我們農業部有沒有相關人士有被約談或是這個我就沒有去詢問你沒有去詢問對我沒有去詢問所以我確認部長你覺得超思雞蛋這個爭議到現在一年多的時間了到底對農業部的形象好不好\n\n01:10.430 --> 01:37.263\n我覺得會不會希望也如果說真的有人謀不章查出來如果真的沒有還農業部清白還業務同仁辛苦清白這是我的原則所以說那怎麼會您自己也不關心也不了解沒有我強調的就是說檢調單位查處本身如果說有不能不法我覺得不會寬待但是如果沒有不法也要還我們同仁一個清白是啊那但是9個月過去了都還沒有都還沒有讓國人釐清相對的齁\n\n01:39.606 --> 01:50.661\n部長您的態度是什麼我想能夠把事情透過程序裡面把事情釐清是最重要的但是現在看到的就是在司法還沒有就是檢調單位還沒有\n\n01:52.673 --> 02:19.611\n確認之前有很多外界的聲音就讓其實讓同仁非常困擾因為以農業部來講就是讓同仁如果說覺得困擾才更應該趕快水落石出嘛因為越滾越大從陳吉仲部長到現在你一樣都是陳部長啊但是我覺得現在國人關注的重點是到底真相為何不管是說超市雞蛋那時候花5.7億來去做補助不管說進口了這個\n\n02:21.272 --> 02:40.330\n一億多顆的這個雞蛋八千多顆的雞蛋巴西來的那到現在到底真相為何還有這個不同公司簽約是A公司然後結果付款是B公司那九個月過去而今天看到這樣的一個媒體結果本席看到你回應媒體講是說我們也希望減掉建樹\n\n02:41.618 --> 03:07.514\n那如果說競速號不是更應該要我們主動積極、機關主動積極的協助來辦理嗎?對,我想檢調如果任何的一個約談或是...所以看起來你沒有被約談?我是沒被約談。下面同仁就你了解也沒有?我沒有去問,所以我不清楚。那到底有沒有人知道?我們同仁說目前沒有。也沒有。那看起來前部長陳吉仲也沒有。所以都沒有?\n\n03:08.647 --> 03:13.450\n國人那麼關心的一個案件結果剪掉到現在也難怪媒體會用頭版頭來報導啊九個月了無盡度嘛\n\n03:19.265 --> 03:29.735\n來部長那我再請教今天我更看到的是裡面有提到一個是說因為採購生鮮雞蛋帶殼雞蛋是屬於生鮮的農漁產品非屬採購法的採購標的但是冷藏倉儲跟雞蛋托運費用是全額補助那依規定是用採購法那沒有用採購法辦理對不對\n\n03:44.429 --> 03:54.314\n從昨天調查報告是這樣子顯示的那我們現在是要追回五成的補助款對針對他應該用適用這種採購法的部分你的理由是什麼會認為是說他應該用採購法他沒有用採購法\n\n04:00.093 --> 04:14.290\n這個我想我發30秒的時間說明一下就是當初續產會在處理這個案子的時候他認為因為雞蛋不是用政府採購法那後續的倉儲跟運輸他們覺得是因為他相對進的少他覺得應該是一批的啦\n\n04:15.171 --> 04:42.057\n但是後來我們行政調查看起來是便宜形式對然後行政單位去看說後面兩個應該適合採購法那根據這個東西我們會依法把這個錢把它追回來所以照理講我們想請教那個中央續產會他到底應不應該遵守採購法他沒有他用自己的資金都不用他只要牽扯到跟政府補助的才有所謂的適不適用政府採購法的問題\n\n04:43.902 --> 05:08.531\n但他的資金來源呢?不也是我們這邊會有相關的一個補助嗎?對所以說在110年他是一個例行的政府採購嘛例行的那個產價調節所以他有計畫上來我們有合計畫下去那有合計畫下去的話合計畫下去也算是政府補助不是嗎?對所以說他不適合的時候就要追回就要追回好那我們來看一下去年的公文\n\n05:10.694 --> 05:23.825\n工程會已經明白確認了冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是冷凍處理非屬生鮮農漁產品適用採購法那去年有什麼樣的一個去年有什麼樣的狀況去年狀況講說\n\n05:25.839 --> 05:26.039\n這是112年的嗎?\n\n05:42.333 --> 06:06.258\n這是112年?2023年啊?112年的部分是所有的那個作業都是續廠會先用他自有資金處理那我們後面的計畫合定補助的設置在後面所以他不符合政府採購法的我們就給他50%以下所以沒有所謂的追求問題是!所以部長我們的冷凍蛋黃跟冷凍蛋液有給他50%以下嗎?就是給他50%以下沒有啊!\n\n06:08.078 --> 06:31.283\n你之前去年巴西進口的冷凍大法冷凍法也是一樣直接讓他做採購啊沒有你並沒有讓他去用採購法裡面不管是招標或是相關啊他如果沒有採購法的話我們的補助就是低於50%就這樣子沒有這個是去年本席現在拿出來的資料就是去年9月的時候我們有委員在質詢去年10月的時候我們有委員在質詢\n\n06:33.304 --> 06:40.718\n這個省記長省記長講是說這一些狀況要去釐清結果省記長居然講是說3個月內調查完畢那目前調查狀況勒?\n\n06:42.506 --> 07:09.250\n沈記長那時候講是說確實純有爭議代理清要先確認雞蛋是不是生鮮魚農產品那還有冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是不是生鮮魚農產品那我們委員去年的時候我們的委員林維周委員就拿出這個公文就說我們在10月3號的時候就問工程會到底冷凍蛋黃跟蛋液是不是農漁產品那工程會說不是嘛那現在三個月過去了我們到底有沒有去有\n\n07:10.350 --> 07:12.851\n有交回50%嗎?有低於50%嗎?所以現在本席就要確認因為今天媒體報導已經講是說你的\n\n07:37.457 --> 08:02.729\n冷藏倉儲跟脫軌費用要收回50%嗎?那我們現在要問過去補助的冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液有沒有要去了解?是不是如果說有補助100%也要收回50%?我現在只問的是是不是一定適用?一定一筆適用就是112年部分如果說他該適用政府採購他沒適用的話就會追回但如果說\n\n08:03.709 --> 08:24.806\n他先買了我們在核定補助在後的時候我就一定不會超過50%是所以這個就是重點嘛那什麼時候可以把資料釐清因為之前就是有爆發中央市長會就是去購買巴西的或是相關的冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃但他沒有用採購法他也直接用合約方式就直接採購了\n\n08:26.127 --> 08:51.763\n所以才會讓我們去年有這樣的疑慮並且要求省紀部來去做瞭解省紀部說3個月要給資料到目前也是不了了之那本席就直接請教因為你們已經講了冷凍倉儲只要是符合採購法的追回50%那一樣冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液符合採購法這您剛剛已經承認了工程會也公文了那現在什麼時候要去釐清到底過去有哪一些是百分百補助要追回50%\n\n08:53.486 --> 09:14.838\n我想是不是委員可以給我一個禮拜的時間我這樣讓續長會去把這個資料調出來一個禮拜的時間就把它調出來然後調出來如果非常清楚的我會把這個這個我們所以包含冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液最主要是冷凍蛋黃該該用採購法的部分我把它挑出來是一個禮拜時間請給本席及經濟委員會資料釐清謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.804,"end":10.204,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長我們再請陳部長"},{"start":18.735,"end":23.618,"text":"臺北新北桃園臺中高雄五個地檢署都說有接獲到民眾告發或是檢方的檢報分案依時安法或是偽造文書五路期發分案調查"},{"start":42.068,"end":69.373,"text":"那到今天有平面媒體報導說9個月了都沒有任何約談相關人士你自己也證實說你沒有被約談我本人我並沒有接受到約談那知道我們農業部有沒有相關人士有被約談或是這個我就沒有去詢問你沒有去詢問對我沒有去詢問所以我確認部長你覺得超思雞蛋這個爭議到現在一年多的時間了到底對農業部的形象好不好"},{"start":70.43,"end":97.263,"text":"我覺得會不會希望也如果說真的有人謀不章查出來如果真的沒有還農業部清白還業務同仁辛苦清白這是我的原則所以說那怎麼會您自己也不關心也不了解沒有我強調的就是說檢調單位查處本身如果說有不能不法我覺得不會寬待但是如果沒有不法也要還我們同仁一個清白是啊那但是9個月過去了都還沒有都還沒有讓國人釐清相對的齁"},{"start":99.606,"end":110.661,"text":"部長您的態度是什麼我想能夠把事情透過程序裡面把事情釐清是最重要的但是現在看到的就是在司法還沒有就是檢調單位還沒有"},{"start":112.673,"end":139.611,"text":"確認之前有很多外界的聲音就讓其實讓同仁非常困擾因為以農業部來講就是讓同仁如果說覺得困擾才更應該趕快水落石出嘛因為越滾越大從陳吉仲部長到現在你一樣都是陳部長啊但是我覺得現在國人關注的重點是到底真相為何不管是說超市雞蛋那時候花5.7億來去做補助不管說進口了這個"},{"start":141.272,"end":160.33,"text":"一億多顆的這個雞蛋八千多顆的雞蛋巴西來的那到現在到底真相為何還有這個不同公司簽約是A公司然後結果付款是B公司那九個月過去而今天看到這樣的一個媒體結果本席看到你回應媒體講是說我們也希望減掉建樹"},{"start":161.618,"end":187.514,"text":"那如果說競速號不是更應該要我們主動積極、機關主動積極的協助來辦理嗎?對,我想檢調如果任何的一個約談或是...所以看起來你沒有被約談?我是沒被約談。下面同仁就你了解也沒有?我沒有去問,所以我不清楚。那到底有沒有人知道?我們同仁說目前沒有。也沒有。那看起來前部長陳吉仲也沒有。所以都沒有?"},{"start":188.647,"end":193.45,"text":"國人那麼關心的一個案件結果剪掉到現在也難怪媒體會用頭版頭來報導啊九個月了無盡度嘛"},{"start":199.265,"end":209.735,"text":"來部長那我再請教今天我更看到的是裡面有提到一個是說因為採購生鮮雞蛋帶殼雞蛋是屬於生鮮的農漁產品非屬採購法的採購標的但是冷藏倉儲跟雞蛋托運費用是全額補助那依規定是用採購法那沒有用採購法辦理對不對"},{"start":224.429,"end":234.314,"text":"從昨天調查報告是這樣子顯示的那我們現在是要追回五成的補助款對針對他應該用適用這種採購法的部分你的理由是什麼會認為是說他應該用採購法他沒有用採購法"},{"start":240.093,"end":254.29,"text":"這個我想我發30秒的時間說明一下就是當初續產會在處理這個案子的時候他認為因為雞蛋不是用政府採購法那後續的倉儲跟運輸他們覺得是因為他相對進的少他覺得應該是一批的啦"},{"start":255.171,"end":282.057,"text":"但是後來我們行政調查看起來是便宜形式對 然後行政單位去看說後面兩個應該適合採購法那根據這個東西我們會依法把這個錢把它追回來所以照理講我們想請教那個中央續產會他到底應不應該遵守採購法他沒有他用自己的資金都不用他只要牽扯到跟政府補助的才有所謂的適不適用政府採購法的問題"},{"start":283.902,"end":308.531,"text":"但他的資金來源呢?不也是我們這邊會有相關的一個補助嗎?對 所以說在110年他是一個例行的政府採購嘛 例行的那個產價調節所以他有計畫上來 我們有合計畫下去 那有合計畫下去的話合計畫下去也算是政府補助不是嗎?對 所以說他不適合的時候就要追回就要追回 好 那我們來看一下去年的公文"},{"start":310.694,"end":323.825,"text":"工程會已經明白確認了冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是冷凍處理非屬生鮮農漁產品適用採購法那去年有什麼樣的一個 去年有什麼樣的狀況去年狀況講說"},{"start":325.839,"end":326.039,"text":"這是112年的嗎?"},{"start":342.333,"end":366.258,"text":"這是112年?2023年啊?112年的部分是所有的那個作業都是續廠會先用他自有資金處理那我們後面的計畫合定補助的設置在後面所以他不符合政府採購法的我們就給他50%以下所以沒有所謂的追求問題是!所以部長我們的冷凍蛋黃跟冷凍蛋液有給他50%以下嗎?就是給他50%以下 沒有啊!"},{"start":368.078,"end":391.283,"text":"你之前去年巴西進口的冷凍大法冷凍法也是一樣直接讓他做採購啊沒有你並沒有讓他去用採購法裡面不管是招標或是相關啊他如果沒有採購法的話我們的補助就是低於50%就這樣子沒有這個是去年本席現在拿出來的資料就是去年9月的時候我們有委員在質詢去年10月的時候我們有委員在質詢"},{"start":393.304,"end":400.718,"text":"這個省記長省記長講是說這一些狀況要去釐清結果省記長居然講是說3個月內調查完畢那目前調查狀況勒?"},{"start":402.506,"end":429.25,"text":"沈記長那時候講是說確實純有爭議代理清要先確認雞蛋是不是生鮮魚農產品那還有冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃是不是生鮮魚農產品那我們委員去年的時候我們的委員林維周委員就拿出這個公文就說我們在10月3號的時候就問工程會到底冷凍蛋黃跟蛋液是不是農漁產品那工程會說不是嘛那現在三個月過去了我們到底有沒有去有"},{"start":430.35,"end":432.851,"text":"有交回50%嗎?有低於50%嗎?所以現在本席就要確認因為今天媒體報導已經講是說你的"},{"start":457.457,"end":482.729,"text":"冷藏倉儲跟脫軌費用要收回50%嗎?那我們現在要問過去補助的冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液有沒有要去了解?是不是如果說有補助100%也要收回50%?我現在只問的是是不是一定適用?一定一筆適用就是112年部分如果說他該適用政府採購他沒適用的話就會追回但如果說"},{"start":483.709,"end":504.806,"text":"他先買了我們在核定補助在後的時候我就一定不會超過50%是 所以這個就是重點嘛那什麼時候可以把資料釐清因為之前就是有爆發中央市長會就是去購買巴西的或是相關的冷凍蛋液跟冷凍蛋黃但他沒有用採購法他也直接用合約方式就直接採購了"},{"start":506.127,"end":531.763,"text":"所以才會讓我們去年有這樣的疑慮並且要求省紀部來去做瞭解省紀部說3個月要給資料到目前也是不了了之那本席就直接請教因為你們已經講了冷凍倉儲只要是符合採購法的追回50%那一樣冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液符合採購法這您剛剛已經承認了工程會也公文了那現在什麼時候要去釐清到底過去有哪一些是百分百補助要追回50%"},{"start":533.486,"end":554.838,"text":"我想是不是委員可以給我一個禮拜的時間我這樣讓續長會去把這個資料調出來一個禮拜的時間就把它調出來然後調出來如果非常清楚的我會把這個這個我們所以包含冷凍蛋黃冷凍蛋液最主要是冷凍蛋黃該該用採購法的部分我把它挑出來是一個禮拜時間請給本席及經濟委員會資料釐清謝謝"}]}}}}