{"id":154381,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154381","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/767b6a9d27b3726c3c2a1e8d3673aa084b539dbd63c1cc91ef8091c70453fc49749a260809b8290f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"11:33:02 - 11:44:06","影片長度":"00:11:04","會議時間":"2024-06-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第30次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「如何運用國際友我組織力量，協助我國加入聯合國相關組織具體做法」，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-27","start_time":"2024-06-27T11:33:02+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-27T11:44:06+08:00","duration":664,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第30次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":30,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-30"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":627,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（11時33分）請林部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，今天我們委員會討論的主題，關於臺灣加入國際組織這上面的一些進度，大家很關心。我們知道江啟臣副院長在5月底也代表韓國瑜院長率團到日內瓦爭取參與WHA，隨團的包括朝野委員在內，我們真的給予這一團非常非常大的肯定，因為也有很多成果。可是我們看到6月21日北京公布了新的分裂國家的規定，其中把推動臺灣加入國際組織也納入了所謂分裂國家的規定裡面，甚至列為所謂懲戒的臺獨分子。當然我們後來看到臺辦其實也說了，它其實針對的只是極少數的臺獨分子，那如果綜合把這幾個資訊兜起來，我們就有一點替江啟臣副院長擔心了，看起來江副院長可能現在是北京新的認知下面的極少數臺獨分子。可是接下來江副院長還是肩負著很多國會外交的任務，而現在看到在新的分裂國家規定裡面有提到，甚至要判死刑，還可以缺席審判。那部長，對於江副院長接下來要扮演這麼多的國會外交的任務，有沒有什麼保護他的措施？"],["林部長佳龍：我們會請外館對於我們國人，尤其到國外涉及到針對是不是會……中共用所謂臺獨……"],["洪委員申翰：極少數臺獨分子，因為它現在做了一個定義。"],["林部長佳龍：因為它選擇性地，所以都有這個風險，我們也都要做好預防和因應。"],["洪委員申翰：我們是希望外交部，針對接下來不管是國會外交上面，尤其是我覺得像院長、副院長動見觀瞻，接下來他們還會再推動臺灣很多加入國際組織的任務，我相信我們的院長、副院長也不會因此就放棄了這些工作，可是這都會被列入中共所謂的極少數臺獨分子，甚至要懲戒的範疇裡面，我們希望外交部跟國安單位也可以給予他們多一點的保護。","接下來，剛剛其實有幾位委員也有問到關於民主基金會的問題，我想民主基金會的問題我們從2月討論到現在，其實現在大家都很清楚，過去在野黨一直說有沒有要卡韓院長的問題，其實我們一直說，從執政黨的角度來講，從來都沒有所謂卡韓院長的選項。那剛剛有很多委員問有沒有要卡韓院長提出來的人選，部長，我們有要卡韓院長所提名的人選的意思嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有，民主基金會是一個財團法人，它有組織章程，所以都是依章程來辦事，就是尊重董事會對人事的決定。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，你也是民主基金會的當然董事，那你現在是副董事長？"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["洪委員申翰：那我要說，當然我們沒有必要去卡任何潛在可能是執行長的人選，我們這個態度是很清楚的。但我想再一次的重申，按照章程來說，董事長有提名權，現在的董事長就是韓國瑜院長，有提名權，當然董事會會有所謂的同意權。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["洪委員申翰：這個同意權裡面我覺得很關鍵的事情，我還是要說一次，關於民主基金會的人事問題是一個責任政治的問題，它不是一個政黨之間怎麼分贓的問題，所以我們很希望在民主基金會的議題上面，我們是用朝野合作來去思考這個問題。就像國會議長其實是當然董事，但我們也遵循慣例，所以國會議長現在是董事長，那這部分我們給予非常非常大的尊重跟尊敬。但同時我覺得一個重點，我一直在強調，關於民主基金會的問題，重點是這個執行長的人選能不能夠貫徹總統的外交策略方針的問題。而總統在國際上面也很清楚把臺灣跟中國的定位，其實我們也說得很清楚，就是中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬，我們真的不希望到時候……其實執行長也要來備詢，結果未來執行長在這邊跟外交部長一起備詢的時候，一個主張中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬，另外一個主張九二共識一個中國。這兩個主張假如互相扞格，其實絕對會對我們的外交政策有非常非常大的影響，部長同意嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：是，因為其實所謂的民主基金會是廣義的二軌外交，那就是有一軌外交嘛！一軌外交就是政府，尤其是外交部的外交嘛！"],["洪委員申翰：對。"],["林部長佳龍：如果二軌外交跟一軌外交打架的話，這不但沒有幫忙一軌外交，而且是雙頭馬車。我沒有針對個人，我是說如果如同剛剛委員所提的，對於總統的外交政策，因為他要負全責嘛！"],["洪委員申翰：是。"],["林部長佳龍：不支持的話，那這個當然就……委員上次也質詢過，這個會是一個涉及到董事會在行使同意權的時候所關切的問題。"],["洪委員申翰：是，所以我要說的是，我們要表達很清楚，我們絕對沒有想要去卡潛在任何可能的執行長人選，絕對沒有，但其實我們希望要求的事情就是讓一軌外交跟二軌外交的方針跟原則能夠互相吻合，不會互相扞格，我覺得這是一個很重要的原則。"],["林部長佳龍：對，我補充一下。一軌、二軌都要朝同一個方向，到時候才不會雙頭馬車，這是很重要的。"],["洪委員申翰：對，甚至我們大家都知道，現在中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬，其實是得到臺灣主流社會認可的，所以任何一個要來擔任執行長的人選，我認為他都要能夠認同跟貫徹這個原則，我覺得這是我們唯一的……至少是我個人唯一的要求。"],["林部長佳龍：因為委員也是董事嘛！所以在董事會也曾經表達過意見，當然因為……"],["洪委員申翰：我不是董事、我不是董事、我不是董事，有其他的董事，但我說我作為一個國會議員、外交及國防委員會的委員，我們覺得這是一個責任政治的問題，因為所有的外交成果最後都還是總統要負責，這是為什麼大家一直說執行長的人選要尊重總統最重要的原因。尊重總統不是因為總統比較大，是因為總統要為外交政策負責，我覺得這個原則，希望外交部包括部長，我們這邊要把握。我真的不樂見到時候看到兩位，一個部長、一個執行長到這邊備詢的時候，結果講出互相打架的話，那真的大家不知道該怎麼辦。這部分還是希望部長能夠做出這樣的要求，而且我覺得這也是一個合理的要求。以上，好不好？部長。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["洪委員申翰：我接下來有幾個事情想要來跟部長講，其實部長今天有講到跨境鎮壓的問題，我們之前對於跨境鎮壓的問題其實也很關注，相關的報告還是要請部長提供給我們。另外，在你上任之前，之前我質詢吳部長的時候，其實他有答應過我們，因為我們有旅居丹麥的國人被標記為中國公民的問題，那我當時有請他針對我們國人到底會有什麼生活的影響，希望提交報告給我們，但目前這個報告其實還沒有給我們。","第二個事情，我在當時其實有請外交部去盤點，哪些國家把我國居留證標記為中國或無國籍的統計資料，我們現在收到外交部的資料，但坦白說我們對內容有點失望，我們現在看到外交部提供的資料，裡面只有12個國家將我國的居留標記為中國或無國籍，但就我們所知，明明冰島其實在2016年的時候也把我們臺灣人的居留證標記為中國籍，可是在外交部的資料卻沒有看到冰島，所以我們其實有一點懷疑現在外交部提供的盤點資料是不是足夠完整。","那這一次我要跟部長報告，我的時間可能有限了，部長，我們其實也要求外交部去盤點，如果各國將我國的居留證標記為中國跟無國籍的時候，可能對我們自己的國人會產生的生活影響，可是我們看到很多都被外交部標記為無具體影響，說實在我真的不相信。我真的不相信，假設別的國家把我們自己的僑民標註為中國籍或者是無國籍，對他的生活、對他的情境毫無具體影響，我真的不相信。可是我們在很多部分都看到你們說無具體影響，所以我自己感覺外交部是不是對於這個嚴肅的問題不夠重視，所以不只是資料的盤點，也包括這些相關分析的資料都有未盡之處。這部分還是希望林部長是不是可以再回去督導一下，把這些事情弄清楚，因為這是有很多在其他國家遇到類似問題的人跟我們反映的，覺得好像我們部分的駐處在協助他們的時候不夠積極。"],["林部長佳龍：因為隨著中國就是所謂跨境的鎮壓，還有對於所謂的懲治臺獨分子，以及它的這種所謂長臂的管轄等等，越加的有壓迫性，我們當然要對於用字還有涉及到這些可能有國籍意涵的，我們在外交上要去捍衛我們國人的權益。"],["洪委員申翰：沒錯，因為中國現在他去壓迫這些國家打壓我們，說臺灣人一定要改成中國籍或無國籍，這其實是一件非常重要的大事，而且非常嚴重的影響到我們國人的權益。"],["林部長佳龍：對，因為它有風險，而且……"],["洪委員申翰：對，但外交部現在都跟我說，外交部現在的報告都說，沒有聽說國人生活受影響。"],["林部長佳龍：我們要瞭解這個趨勢，因為有可能會因為中共的……"],["洪委員申翰：我想這部分就再請部長回去督導一下，好不好？我希望能夠改善，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["洪委員申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。這個部分之前也有提過，外交部如果通通沒有能力作為，這樣對我們外交也是一個很大的打擊。剛剛也有特別提到，我想在這裡補充一點，韓國瑜院長所提名的這個人選，其實在蔡政府時期他擔任過臺灣民主基金會的副執行長，這個部分我想他的背景資料也可以提供給大家。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請麥玉珍、麥玉珍、麥玉珍委員不在。","請鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請陳培瑜委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":44,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-30","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王定宇","陳冠廷","黃國昌","羅智強","洪申翰","陳培瑜","邱志偉","林憶君"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1136801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第30次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「如何運用國際友我組織力量，協助我國加入聯合國相關組織具體做\n法」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136801_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"154381","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154381","tool":"pyannote","id":"154381-pyannote"},"job_id":"by4QuhjwyEfYNzG3","queued_at":"2024-06-27 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219.597, \"end\": 219.757, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 219.757, \"end\": 219.918, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"董\", \"start\": 219.918, \"end\": 220.118, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 220.118, \"end\": 221.26, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 221.26, \"end\": 221.481, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 221.481, \"end\": 221.621, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.621, \"end\": 221.701, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 221.701, \"end\": 221.721, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 224.247, \"end\": 250.961, \"text\": \"我認為因為你也是民主基金會的當然董事那你現在是副董事長那我要說我其實覺得我們當然沒有必要去卡任何潛在可能是執行長的人選我覺得這個我們態度是很清楚的但我想再一次的重申因為當然按照章程來說這個董事長會有提名權那現在董事長就是韓國瑜院長有提名權那當然董事會會有所謂的同意權\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 224.247, \"end\": 224.627, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 224.627, \"end\": 224.887, 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637.167, \"end\": 637.187, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 637.187, \"end\": 637.207, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,006 --> 00:00:18,657\n請林部長請部長部長我們今天委員會討論的主題當然關於這個臺灣加入這個國際組織那這上面一些進度那大家很多的關心\n\n2\n00:00:19,918 --> 00:00:46,656\n那我們也知道其實這個我們江啟臣副院長其實在5月底的時候其實也率團代表韓國瑜院長那到日內瓦那參與這個或爭取參與WHA那其實這個水團裡面朝野的委員其實也在裡面那我們真的也給予這個這一團非常非常大的肯定因為也很多的成果\n\n3\n00:00:47,626 --> 00:01:11,840\n可是我們今天也看到在6月21號的時候其實北京公佈了這個新的分裂國家的規定那其中這分裂國家的規定裡面也把推動台灣加入國際組織也納入了所謂分裂國家的規定裡面甚至是列為所謂的懲戒這個台獨份子\n\n4\n00:01:13,598 --> 00:01:38,455\n當然我們後來看到這個台辦其實也說了他其實針對的只是極少數的台獨分子那如果把這幾個綜合資訊兜起來的時候我們就有一點替我們的江啟臣副院長擔心了看起來江副院長可能現在是北京新的認知下面的極少數的台獨分子\n\n5\n00:01:39,520 --> 00:02:04,659\n那可是接下來江副院長他還是肩負著很多國會外交的任務啊可是現在看到在新的分裂國家規定裡面有講到甚至要判死刑還可以缺席審判那部長我們有沒有對於我們江副院長接下來要扮演這麼多的國際外交的國會外交的任務上面有沒有什麼保護他的措施我們會\n\n6\n00:02:07,762 --> 00:02:27,295\n請外館對於我們國人尤其到國外這個涉及到就是針對是不是會中共用這個所謂台獨幾少數台獨分子因為他現在做了一個定義選擇性的所以都有這個風險我們也都要做好這個預防跟因應\n\n7\n00:02:28,298 --> 00:02:48,494\n我們是希望這個外交部其實針對接下來不管是國會在交上面其實尤其是當然我覺得像院長副院長動見觀瞻接下來他們還會再推動台灣很多加入國際組織的任務我相信我們的院長副院長也不會因此就這個放棄了這些工作可是這都是會被列入中共\n\n8\n00:02:49,375 --> 00:02:52,077\n接下來我是要問剛剛其實有幾位委員其實有問到關於民主基金會的問題\n\n9\n00:03:04,042 --> 00:03:30,711\n我想其實民主基金會的問題我們從二月討論到現在其實現在大家都很清楚過去在黨一直說這個有沒有要卡韓院長的問題其實我們一直說從執政黨的角度從來都沒有所謂卡韓院長的選項那剛才有很多的委員問有沒有要卡什麼好像韓院長提出來的人選不然我們有要卡韓院長所提名的人選的意思嗎\n\n10\n00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:41,721\n沒有因為其實民主基金會是一個財團法人他有組織章程是所以都是一章程來辦事嘛就是尊重董事會對人事的決定\n\n11\n00:03:44,247 --> 00:04:10,961\n我認為因為你也是民主基金會的當然董事那你現在是副董事長那我要說我其實覺得我們當然沒有必要去卡任何潛在可能是執行長的人選我覺得這個我們態度是很清楚的但我想再一次的重申因為當然按照章程來說這個董事長會有提名權那現在董事長就是韓國瑜院長有提名權那當然董事會會有所謂的同意權\n\n12\n00:04:13,122 --> 00:04:28,336\n這個同意權裡面我覺得很關鍵的事情我還要再說一次關於民主基金會的人事問題是一個責任政治的問題它不是一個政黨之間怎麼分贓的問題所以我們很希望在民主基金會的議題上面我們是用朝野合作來去思考這個問題\n\n13\n00:04:29,577 --> 00:04:52,213\n就像這個國會議長其實是當然董事但我們也遵循慣例所以國會議長現在是董事長那這部分我們給予非常非常大的尊重跟尊敬但同時我覺得一個重點我一直在強調關於民主基金會問題重點是他這個執行長的人選能不能夠貫徹總統的外交策略方針的問題\n\n14\n00:04:53,354 --> 00:05:22,330\n而總統在我們國際上面也很清楚把台灣跟中國的定位其實我們也說得很清楚就是中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬我們真的不希望到時候其實執行長也要來備詢結果未來執行長在這邊備詢跟外交部長一起備詢的時候一個主張中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬另外一個主張九二共是一個中國\n\n15\n00:05:24,662 --> 00:05:42,900\n這兩個主張假如互相漢革其實絕對會是對我們外交政策非常非常大的影響部長同意嗎是因為齁其實所謂民主機會是廣義的惡鬼外交那就是有一鬼外交嘛一鬼外交就是政府尤其外交部的外交嘛阿如果惡鬼外交跟一鬼外交打架的話\n\n16\n00:05:43,701 --> 00:06:00,033\n那這不但沒有幫忙一軌外交而且是雙頭馬車我沒有真的個人我是說如果如同剛剛委員所提的因為對於總統的外交政策因為他要負全責嘛那不支持的話那這個當然委員上次也質詢過這個會是一個\n\n17\n00:06:03,035 --> 00:06:06,658\n涉及到董事會在行使同意權的時候很關切的問題\n\n18\n00:06:33,055 --> 00:06:34,936\n我不是董事我不是董事我不是董事\n\n19\n00:07:01,725 --> 00:07:18,867\n對有其他董事但我說我作為一個國會議員在外交國防委員會的委員我做出我們覺得這是一個責任政治的問題因為這些所有的外交成果最後都還是總統要負責這是為什麼大家一直說執行長的人選要尊重總統最重要的原因這尊重總統不是因為只是總統比較大\n\n20\n00:07:20,029 --> 00:07:20,189\n委員會主席\n\n21\n00:07:37,355 --> 00:08:01,112\n作出這樣的要求而且我覺得這也是一個合理的要求以上好不好這部長這部分部長我接下來有幾個事情是想要來跟部長講其實部長今天有講到跨境鎮壓的問題那我們之前這個其實對跨境鎮壓問題其實也很關注那相關的報告還是要請部長提供給我們那另外是之前在你上任之前在這個\n\n22\n00:08:02,893 --> 00:08:19,486\n之前的質詢吳部長其實有答應過我們其實因為我們有旅居丹麥的國人被標記為中國公民的問題那我當時有請他給予說我們到底國人會有什麼生活的影響希望提交給我們報告但目前這個報告其實還沒有給我們第二個事情是\n\n23\n00:08:20,868 --> 00:08:40,706\n我在當時其實有請外交部去盤點哪些國家把我國拘留證標記為中國或無國籍的統計資料但我們現在收到外交部的資料但坦白說內容我們有點失望我們現在看到外交部提供的資料裡面只有12個國家將我國的拘留標記為中國或無國籍但就我們所知明明冰島\n\n24\n00:08:41,807 --> 00:09:01,532\n其實在2016的時候也把我們台灣人的居留證把它標記為中國籍可是在外交部上面的資料卻沒有看到冰島所以我們其實有一點懷疑現在這個外交部提供的盤點的資料是不是足夠的完整那在這一次我要跟部長報告我時間可能有限了\n\n25\n00:09:02,432 --> 00:09:24,588\n不然我們其實也要求外交部去盤點如果各國將我國的居留證標記為中國跟無國籍的時候可能對我們自己的國人會產生的生活影響可是我們看到很多都被外交部標記為無具體影響說實在我真的不相信我真的不相信假設別的國家把我們自己的僑民\n\n26\n00:09:33,631 --> 00:09:51,542\n我真的不相信可是我們很多部分我們都看到你們說無具體影響所以我自己感覺外交部是不是對於這個問題這個嚴肅的問題不夠重視所以不只資料的盤點也包括這些相關的分析的資料都有未盡之處這部分還是希望\n\n27\n00:09:52,463 --> 00:10:04,588\n林部長是不是可以回去再督導一下把這件事情弄清楚因為這時候有很多我們自己在其他國家遇到類似問題的人他都跟我們反映覺得好像我們部分的住處在協助他們的時候不夠積極\n\n28\n00:10:06,257 --> 00:10:34,487\n因為隨著中國就是對這個所謂境外跨境的鎮壓還有對於所謂的懲治台獨分子他的這種所謂長臂的管轄等等的越加的這個有這個壓迫性我們當然要對於用字還有涉及到這些可能有國籍意涵的我們要去在外交上去捍衛我們國人的權益沒錯因為中國現在他的他現在去壓迫這些國家\n\n29\n00:10:35,987 --> 00:10:37,207\n我希望能夠改善好不好這部分謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2006\t18657\t請林部長請部長部長我們今天委員會討論的主題當然關於這個臺灣加入這個國際組織那這上面一些進度那大家很多的關心\n19918\t46656\t那我們也知道其實這個我們江啟臣副院長其實在5月底的時候其實也率團代表韓國瑜院長那到日內瓦那參與這個或爭取參與WHA那其實這個水團裡面朝野的委員其實也在裡面那我們真的也給予這個這一團非常非常大的肯定因為也很多的成果\n47626\t71840\t可是我們今天也看到在6月21號的時候其實北京公佈了這個新的分裂國家的規定那其中這分裂國家的規定裡面也把推動台灣加入國際組織也納入了所謂分裂國家的規定裡面甚至是列為所謂的懲戒這個台獨份子\n73598\t98455\t當然我們後來看到這個台辦其實也說了他其實針對的只是極少數的台獨分子那如果把這幾個綜合資訊兜起來的時候我們就有一點替我們的江啟臣副院長擔心了看起來江副院長可能現在是北京新的認知下面的極少數的台獨分子\n99520\t124659\t那可是接下來江副院長他還是肩負著很多國會外交的任務啊可是現在看到在新的分裂國家規定裡面有講到甚至要判死刑還可以缺席審判那部長我們有沒有對於我們江副院長接下來要扮演這麼多的國際外交的國會外交的任務上面有沒有什麼保護他的措施我們會\n127762\t147295\t請外館對於我們國人尤其到國外這個涉及到就是針對是不是會中共用這個所謂台獨幾少數台獨分子因為他現在做了一個定義選擇性的所以都有這個風險我們也都要做好這個預防跟因應\n148298\t168494\t我們是希望這個外交部其實針對接下來不管是國會在交上面其實尤其是當然我覺得像院長副院長動見觀瞻接下來他們還會再推動台灣很多加入國際組織的任務我相信我們的院長副院長也不會因此就這個放棄了這些工作可是這都是會被列入中共\n169375\t172077\t接下來我是要問剛剛其實有幾位委員其實有問到關於民主基金會的問題\n184042\t210711\t我想其實民主基金會的問題我們從二月討論到現在其實現在大家都很清楚過去在黨一直說這個有沒有要卡韓院長的問題其實我們一直說從執政黨的角度從來都沒有所謂卡韓院長的選項那剛才有很多的委員問有沒有要卡什麼好像韓院長提出來的人選不然我們有要卡韓院長所提名的人選的意思嗎\n211400\t221721\t沒有 因為其實民主基金會是一個財團法人他有組織章程是所以都是一章程來辦事嘛就是尊重董事會對人事的決定\n224247\t250961\t我認為因為你也是民主基金會的當然董事那你現在是副董事長那我要說我其實覺得我們當然沒有必要去卡任何潛在可能是執行長的人選我覺得這個我們態度是很清楚的但我想再一次的重申因為當然按照章程來說這個董事長會有提名權那現在董事長就是韓國瑜院長有提名權那當然董事會會有所謂的同意權\n253122\t268336\t這個同意權裡面我覺得很關鍵的事情我還要再說一次關於民主基金會的人事問題是一個責任政治的問題它不是一個政黨之間怎麼分贓的問題所以我們很希望在民主基金會的議題上面我們是用朝野合作來去思考這個問題\n269577\t292213\t就像這個國會議長其實是當然董事但我們也遵循慣例所以國會議長現在是董事長那這部分我們給予非常非常大的尊重跟尊敬但同時我覺得一個重點我一直在強調關於民主基金會問題重點是他這個執行長的人選能不能夠貫徹總統的外交策略方針的問題\n293354\t322330\t而總統在我們國際上面也很清楚把台灣跟中國的定位其實我們也說得很清楚就是中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬我們真的不希望到時候其實執行長也要來備詢結果未來執行長在這邊備詢跟外交部長一起備詢的時候一個主張中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬另外一個主張九二共是一個中國\n324662\t342900\t這兩個主張假如互相漢革其實絕對會是對我們外交政策非常非常大的影響部長同意嗎是因為齁其實所謂民主機會是廣義的惡鬼外交那就是有一鬼外交嘛一鬼外交就是政府尤其外交部的外交嘛阿如果惡鬼外交跟一鬼外交打架的話\n343701\t360033\t那這不但沒有幫忙一軌外交而且是雙頭馬車我沒有真的個人我是說如果如同剛剛委員所提的因為對於總統的外交政策因為他要負全責嘛那不支持的話那這個當然委員上次也質詢過這個會是一個\n363035\t366658\t涉及到董事會在行使同意權的時候很關切的問題\n393055\t394936\t我不是董事我不是董事我不是董事\n421725\t438867\t對有其他董事但我說我作為一個國會議員在外交國防委員會的委員我做出我們覺得這是一個責任政治的問題因為這些所有的外交成果最後都還是總統要負責這是為什麼大家一直說執行長的人選要尊重總統最重要的原因這尊重總統不是因為只是總統比較大\n440029\t440189\t委員會主席\n457355\t481112\t作出這樣的要求而且我覺得這也是一個合理的要求以上好不好這部長這部分部長我接下來有幾個事情是想要來跟部長講其實部長今天有講到跨境鎮壓的問題那我們之前這個其實對跨境鎮壓問題其實也很關注那相關的報告還是要請部長提供給我們那另外是之前在你上任之前在這個\n482893\t499486\t之前的質詢吳部長其實有答應過我們其實因為我們有旅居丹麥的國人被標記為中國公民的問題那我當時有請他給予說我們到底國人會有什麼生活的影響希望提交給我們報告但目前這個報告其實還沒有給我們第二個事情是\n500868\t520706\t我在當時其實有請外交部去盤點哪些國家把我國拘留證標記為中國或無國籍的統計資料但我們現在收到外交部的資料但坦白說內容我們有點失望我們現在看到外交部提供的資料裡面只有12個國家將我國的拘留標記為中國或無國籍但就我們所知明明冰島\n521807\t541532\t其實在2016的時候也把我們台灣人的居留證把它標記為中國籍可是在外交部上面的資料卻沒有看到冰島所以我們其實有一點懷疑現在這個外交部提供的盤點的資料是不是足夠的完整那在這一次我要跟部長報告我時間可能有限了\n542432\t564588\t不然我們其實也要求外交部去盤點如果各國將我國的居留證標記為中國跟無國籍的時候可能對我們自己的國人會產生的生活影響可是我們看到很多都被外交部標記為無具體影響說實在我真的不相信我真的不相信假設別的國家把我們自己的僑民\n573631\t591542\t我真的不相信可是我們很多部分我們都看到你們說無具體影響所以我自己感覺外交部是不是對於這個問題這個嚴肅的問題不夠重視所以不只資料的盤點也包括這些相關的分析的資料都有未盡之處這部分還是希望\n592463\t604588\t林部長是不是可以回去再督導一下把這件事情弄清楚因為這時候有很多我們自己在其他國家遇到類似問題的人他都跟我們反映覺得好像我們部分的住處在協助他們的時候不夠積極\n606257\t634487\t因為隨著中國就是對這個所謂境外跨境的鎮壓還有對於所謂的懲治台獨分子他的這種所謂長臂的管轄等等的越加的這個有這個壓迫性我們當然要對於用字還有涉及到這些可能有國籍意涵的我們要去在外交上去捍衛我們國人的權益沒錯因為中國現在他的他現在去壓迫這些國家\n635987\t637207\t我希望能夠改善好不好這部分謝謝\n","txt":"請林部長請部長部長我們今天委員會討論的主題當然關於這個臺灣加入這個國際組織那這上面一些進度那大家很多的關心\n那我們也知道其實這個我們江啟臣副院長其實在5月底的時候其實也率團代表韓國瑜院長那到日內瓦那參與這個或爭取參與WHA那其實這個水團裡面朝野的委員其實也在裡面那我們真的也給予這個這一團非常非常大的肯定因為也很多的成果\n可是我們今天也看到在6月21號的時候其實北京公佈了這個新的分裂國家的規定那其中這分裂國家的規定裡面也把推動台灣加入國際組織也納入了所謂分裂國家的規定裡面甚至是列為所謂的懲戒這個台獨份子\n當然我們後來看到這個台辦其實也說了他其實針對的只是極少數的台獨分子那如果把這幾個綜合資訊兜起來的時候我們就有一點替我們的江啟臣副院長擔心了看起來江副院長可能現在是北京新的認知下面的極少數的台獨分子\n那可是接下來江副院長他還是肩負著很多國會外交的任務啊可是現在看到在新的分裂國家規定裡面有講到甚至要判死刑還可以缺席審判那部長我們有沒有對於我們江副院長接下來要扮演這麼多的國際外交的國會外交的任務上面有沒有什麼保護他的措施我們會\n請外館對於我們國人尤其到國外這個涉及到就是針對是不是會中共用這個所謂台獨幾少數台獨分子因為他現在做了一個定義選擇性的所以都有這個風險我們也都要做好這個預防跟因應\n我們是希望這個外交部其實針對接下來不管是國會在交上面其實尤其是當然我覺得像院長副院長動見觀瞻接下來他們還會再推動台灣很多加入國際組織的任務我相信我們的院長副院長也不會因此就這個放棄了這些工作可是這都是會被列入中共\n接下來我是要問剛剛其實有幾位委員其實有問到關於民主基金會的問題\n我想其實民主基金會的問題我們從二月討論到現在其實現在大家都很清楚過去在黨一直說這個有沒有要卡韓院長的問題其實我們一直說從執政黨的角度從來都沒有所謂卡韓院長的選項那剛才有很多的委員問有沒有要卡什麼好像韓院長提出來的人選不然我們有要卡韓院長所提名的人選的意思嗎\n沒有 因為其實民主基金會是一個財團法人他有組織章程是所以都是一章程來辦事嘛就是尊重董事會對人事的決定\n我認為因為你也是民主基金會的當然董事那你現在是副董事長那我要說我其實覺得我們當然沒有必要去卡任何潛在可能是執行長的人選我覺得這個我們態度是很清楚的但我想再一次的重申因為當然按照章程來說這個董事長會有提名權那現在董事長就是韓國瑜院長有提名權那當然董事會會有所謂的同意權\n這個同意權裡面我覺得很關鍵的事情我還要再說一次關於民主基金會的人事問題是一個責任政治的問題它不是一個政黨之間怎麼分贓的問題所以我們很希望在民主基金會的議題上面我們是用朝野合作來去思考這個問題\n就像這個國會議長其實是當然董事但我們也遵循慣例所以國會議長現在是董事長那這部分我們給予非常非常大的尊重跟尊敬但同時我覺得一個重點我一直在強調關於民主基金會問題重點是他這個執行長的人選能不能夠貫徹總統的外交策略方針的問題\n而總統在我們國際上面也很清楚把台灣跟中國的定位其實我們也說得很清楚就是中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬我們真的不希望到時候其實執行長也要來備詢結果未來執行長在這邊備詢跟外交部長一起備詢的時候一個主張中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬另外一個主張九二共是一個中國\n這兩個主張假如互相漢革其實絕對會是對我們外交政策非常非常大的影響部長同意嗎是因為齁其實所謂民主機會是廣義的惡鬼外交那就是有一鬼外交嘛一鬼外交就是政府尤其外交部的外交嘛阿如果惡鬼外交跟一鬼外交打架的話\n那這不但沒有幫忙一軌外交而且是雙頭馬車我沒有真的個人我是說如果如同剛剛委員所提的因為對於總統的外交政策因為他要負全責嘛那不支持的話那這個當然委員上次也質詢過這個會是一個\n涉及到董事會在行使同意權的時候很關切的問題\n我不是董事我不是董事我不是董事\n對有其他董事但我說我作為一個國會議員在外交國防委員會的委員我做出我們覺得這是一個責任政治的問題因為這些所有的外交成果最後都還是總統要負責這是為什麼大家一直說執行長的人選要尊重總統最重要的原因這尊重總統不是因為只是總統比較大\n委員會主席\n作出這樣的要求而且我覺得這也是一個合理的要求以上好不好這部長這部分部長我接下來有幾個事情是想要來跟部長講其實部長今天有講到跨境鎮壓的問題那我們之前這個其實對跨境鎮壓問題其實也很關注那相關的報告還是要請部長提供給我們那另外是之前在你上任之前在這個\n之前的質詢吳部長其實有答應過我們其實因為我們有旅居丹麥的國人被標記為中國公民的問題那我當時有請他給予說我們到底國人會有什麼生活的影響希望提交給我們報告但目前這個報告其實還沒有給我們第二個事情是\n我在當時其實有請外交部去盤點哪些國家把我國拘留證標記為中國或無國籍的統計資料但我們現在收到外交部的資料但坦白說內容我們有點失望我們現在看到外交部提供的資料裡面只有12個國家將我國的拘留標記為中國或無國籍但就我們所知明明冰島\n其實在2016的時候也把我們台灣人的居留證把它標記為中國籍可是在外交部上面的資料卻沒有看到冰島所以我們其實有一點懷疑現在這個外交部提供的盤點的資料是不是足夠的完整那在這一次我要跟部長報告我時間可能有限了\n不然我們其實也要求外交部去盤點如果各國將我國的居留證標記為中國跟無國籍的時候可能對我們自己的國人會產生的生活影響可是我們看到很多都被外交部標記為無具體影響說實在我真的不相信我真的不相信假設別的國家把我們自己的僑民\n我真的不相信可是我們很多部分我們都看到你們說無具體影響所以我自己感覺外交部是不是對於這個問題這個嚴肅的問題不夠重視所以不只資料的盤點也包括這些相關的分析的資料都有未盡之處這部分還是希望\n林部長是不是可以回去再督導一下把這件事情弄清楚因為這時候有很多我們自己在其他國家遇到類似問題的人他都跟我們反映覺得好像我們部分的住處在協助他們的時候不夠積極\n因為隨著中國就是對這個所謂境外跨境的鎮壓還有對於所謂的懲治台獨分子他的這種所謂長臂的管轄等等的越加的這個有這個壓迫性我們當然要對於用字還有涉及到這些可能有國籍意涵的我們要去在外交上去捍衛我們國人的權益沒錯因為中國現在他的他現在去壓迫這些國家\n我希望能夠改善好不好這部分謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.006 --> 00:18.657\n請林部長請部長部長我們今天委員會討論的主題當然關於這個臺灣加入這個國際組織那這上面一些進度那大家很多的關心\n\n00:19.918 --> 00:46.656\n那我們也知道其實這個我們江啟臣副院長其實在5月底的時候其實也率團代表韓國瑜院長那到日內瓦那參與這個或爭取參與WHA那其實這個水團裡面朝野的委員其實也在裡面那我們真的也給予這個這一團非常非常大的肯定因為也很多的成果\n\n00:47.626 --> 01:11.840\n可是我們今天也看到在6月21號的時候其實北京公佈了這個新的分裂國家的規定那其中這分裂國家的規定裡面也把推動台灣加入國際組織也納入了所謂分裂國家的規定裡面甚至是列為所謂的懲戒這個台獨份子\n\n01:13.598 --> 01:38.455\n當然我們後來看到這個台辦其實也說了他其實針對的只是極少數的台獨分子那如果把這幾個綜合資訊兜起來的時候我們就有一點替我們的江啟臣副院長擔心了看起來江副院長可能現在是北京新的認知下面的極少數的台獨分子\n\n01:39.520 --> 02:04.659\n那可是接下來江副院長他還是肩負著很多國會外交的任務啊可是現在看到在新的分裂國家規定裡面有講到甚至要判死刑還可以缺席審判那部長我們有沒有對於我們江副院長接下來要扮演這麼多的國際外交的國會外交的任務上面有沒有什麼保護他的措施我們會\n\n02:07.762 --> 02:27.295\n請外館對於我們國人尤其到國外這個涉及到就是針對是不是會中共用這個所謂台獨幾少數台獨分子因為他現在做了一個定義選擇性的所以都有這個風險我們也都要做好這個預防跟因應\n\n02:28.298 --> 02:48.494\n我們是希望這個外交部其實針對接下來不管是國會在交上面其實尤其是當然我覺得像院長副院長動見觀瞻接下來他們還會再推動台灣很多加入國際組織的任務我相信我們的院長副院長也不會因此就這個放棄了這些工作可是這都是會被列入中共\n\n02:49.375 --> 02:52.077\n接下來我是要問剛剛其實有幾位委員其實有問到關於民主基金會的問題\n\n03:04.042 --> 03:30.711\n我想其實民主基金會的問題我們從二月討論到現在其實現在大家都很清楚過去在黨一直說這個有沒有要卡韓院長的問題其實我們一直說從執政黨的角度從來都沒有所謂卡韓院長的選項那剛才有很多的委員問有沒有要卡什麼好像韓院長提出來的人選不然我們有要卡韓院長所提名的人選的意思嗎\n\n03:31.400 --> 03:41.721\n沒有因為其實民主基金會是一個財團法人他有組織章程是所以都是一章程來辦事嘛就是尊重董事會對人事的決定\n\n03:44.247 --> 04:10.961\n我認為因為你也是民主基金會的當然董事那你現在是副董事長那我要說我其實覺得我們當然沒有必要去卡任何潛在可能是執行長的人選我覺得這個我們態度是很清楚的但我想再一次的重申因為當然按照章程來說這個董事長會有提名權那現在董事長就是韓國瑜院長有提名權那當然董事會會有所謂的同意權\n\n04:13.122 --> 04:28.336\n這個同意權裡面我覺得很關鍵的事情我還要再說一次關於民主基金會的人事問題是一個責任政治的問題它不是一個政黨之間怎麼分贓的問題所以我們很希望在民主基金會的議題上面我們是用朝野合作來去思考這個問題\n\n04:29.577 --> 04:52.213\n就像這個國會議長其實是當然董事但我們也遵循慣例所以國會議長現在是董事長那這部分我們給予非常非常大的尊重跟尊敬但同時我覺得一個重點我一直在強調關於民主基金會問題重點是他這個執行長的人選能不能夠貫徹總統的外交策略方針的問題\n\n04:53.354 --> 05:22.330\n而總統在我們國際上面也很清楚把台灣跟中國的定位其實我們也說得很清楚就是中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬我們真的不希望到時候其實執行長也要來備詢結果未來執行長在這邊備詢跟外交部長一起備詢的時候一個主張中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬另外一個主張九二共是一個中國\n\n05:24.662 --> 05:42.900\n這兩個主張假如互相漢革其實絕對會是對我們外交政策非常非常大的影響部長同意嗎是因為齁其實所謂民主機會是廣義的惡鬼外交那就是有一鬼外交嘛一鬼外交就是政府尤其外交部的外交嘛阿如果惡鬼外交跟一鬼外交打架的話\n\n05:43.701 --> 06:00.033\n那這不但沒有幫忙一軌外交而且是雙頭馬車我沒有真的個人我是說如果如同剛剛委員所提的因為對於總統的外交政策因為他要負全責嘛那不支持的話那這個當然委員上次也質詢過這個會是一個\n\n06:03.035 --> 06:06.658\n涉及到董事會在行使同意權的時候很關切的問題\n\n06:33.055 --> 06:34.936\n我不是董事我不是董事我不是董事\n\n07:01.725 --> 07:18.867\n對有其他董事但我說我作為一個國會議員在外交國防委員會的委員我做出我們覺得這是一個責任政治的問題因為這些所有的外交成果最後都還是總統要負責這是為什麼大家一直說執行長的人選要尊重總統最重要的原因這尊重總統不是因為只是總統比較大\n\n07:20.029 --> 07:20.189\n委員會主席\n\n07:37.355 --> 08:01.112\n作出這樣的要求而且我覺得這也是一個合理的要求以上好不好這部長這部分部長我接下來有幾個事情是想要來跟部長講其實部長今天有講到跨境鎮壓的問題那我們之前這個其實對跨境鎮壓問題其實也很關注那相關的報告還是要請部長提供給我們那另外是之前在你上任之前在這個\n\n08:02.893 --> 08:19.486\n之前的質詢吳部長其實有答應過我們其實因為我們有旅居丹麥的國人被標記為中國公民的問題那我當時有請他給予說我們到底國人會有什麼生活的影響希望提交給我們報告但目前這個報告其實還沒有給我們第二個事情是\n\n08:20.868 --> 08:40.706\n我在當時其實有請外交部去盤點哪些國家把我國拘留證標記為中國或無國籍的統計資料但我們現在收到外交部的資料但坦白說內容我們有點失望我們現在看到外交部提供的資料裡面只有12個國家將我國的拘留標記為中國或無國籍但就我們所知明明冰島\n\n08:41.807 --> 09:01.532\n其實在2016的時候也把我們台灣人的居留證把它標記為中國籍可是在外交部上面的資料卻沒有看到冰島所以我們其實有一點懷疑現在這個外交部提供的盤點的資料是不是足夠的完整那在這一次我要跟部長報告我時間可能有限了\n\n09:02.432 --> 09:24.588\n不然我們其實也要求外交部去盤點如果各國將我國的居留證標記為中國跟無國籍的時候可能對我們自己的國人會產生的生活影響可是我們看到很多都被外交部標記為無具體影響說實在我真的不相信我真的不相信假設別的國家把我們自己的僑民\n\n09:33.631 --> 09:51.542\n我真的不相信可是我們很多部分我們都看到你們說無具體影響所以我自己感覺外交部是不是對於這個問題這個嚴肅的問題不夠重視所以不只資料的盤點也包括這些相關的分析的資料都有未盡之處這部分還是希望\n\n09:52.463 --> 10:04.588\n林部長是不是可以回去再督導一下把這件事情弄清楚因為這時候有很多我們自己在其他國家遇到類似問題的人他都跟我們反映覺得好像我們部分的住處在協助他們的時候不夠積極\n\n10:06.257 --> 10:34.487\n因為隨著中國就是對這個所謂境外跨境的鎮壓還有對於所謂的懲治台獨分子他的這種所謂長臂的管轄等等的越加的這個有這個壓迫性我們當然要對於用字還有涉及到這些可能有國籍意涵的我們要去在外交上去捍衛我們國人的權益沒錯因為中國現在他的他現在去壓迫這些國家\n\n10:35.987 --> 10:37.207\n我希望能夠改善好不好這部分謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.006,"end":18.657,"text":"請林部長請部長部長我們今天委員會討論的主題當然關於這個臺灣加入這個國際組織那這上面一些進度那大家很多的關心"},{"start":19.918,"end":46.656,"text":"那我們也知道其實這個我們江啟臣副院長其實在5月底的時候其實也率團代表韓國瑜院長那到日內瓦那參與這個或爭取參與WHA那其實這個水團裡面朝野的委員其實也在裡面那我們真的也給予這個這一團非常非常大的肯定因為也很多的成果"},{"start":47.626,"end":71.84,"text":"可是我們今天也看到在6月21號的時候其實北京公佈了這個新的分裂國家的規定那其中這分裂國家的規定裡面也把推動台灣加入國際組織也納入了所謂分裂國家的規定裡面甚至是列為所謂的懲戒這個台獨份子"},{"start":73.598,"end":98.455,"text":"當然我們後來看到這個台辦其實也說了他其實針對的只是極少數的台獨分子那如果把這幾個綜合資訊兜起來的時候我們就有一點替我們的江啟臣副院長擔心了看起來江副院長可能現在是北京新的認知下面的極少數的台獨分子"},{"start":99.52,"end":124.659,"text":"那可是接下來江副院長他還是肩負著很多國會外交的任務啊可是現在看到在新的分裂國家規定裡面有講到甚至要判死刑還可以缺席審判那部長我們有沒有對於我們江副院長接下來要扮演這麼多的國際外交的國會外交的任務上面有沒有什麼保護他的措施我們會"},{"start":127.762,"end":147.295,"text":"請外館對於我們國人尤其到國外這個涉及到就是針對是不是會中共用這個所謂台獨幾少數台獨分子因為他現在做了一個定義選擇性的所以都有這個風險我們也都要做好這個預防跟因應"},{"start":148.298,"end":168.494,"text":"我們是希望這個外交部其實針對接下來不管是國會在交上面其實尤其是當然我覺得像院長副院長動見觀瞻接下來他們還會再推動台灣很多加入國際組織的任務我相信我們的院長副院長也不會因此就這個放棄了這些工作可是這都是會被列入中共"},{"start":169.375,"end":172.077,"text":"接下來我是要問剛剛其實有幾位委員其實有問到關於民主基金會的問題"},{"start":184.042,"end":210.711,"text":"我想其實民主基金會的問題我們從二月討論到現在其實現在大家都很清楚過去在黨一直說這個有沒有要卡韓院長的問題其實我們一直說從執政黨的角度從來都沒有所謂卡韓院長的選項那剛才有很多的委員問有沒有要卡什麼好像韓院長提出來的人選不然我們有要卡韓院長所提名的人選的意思嗎"},{"start":211.4,"end":221.721,"text":"沒有 因為其實民主基金會是一個財團法人他有組織章程是所以都是一章程來辦事嘛就是尊重董事會對人事的決定"},{"start":224.247,"end":250.961,"text":"我認為因為你也是民主基金會的當然董事那你現在是副董事長那我要說我其實覺得我們當然沒有必要去卡任何潛在可能是執行長的人選我覺得這個我們態度是很清楚的但我想再一次的重申因為當然按照章程來說這個董事長會有提名權那現在董事長就是韓國瑜院長有提名權那當然董事會會有所謂的同意權"},{"start":253.122,"end":268.336,"text":"這個同意權裡面我覺得很關鍵的事情我還要再說一次關於民主基金會的人事問題是一個責任政治的問題它不是一個政黨之間怎麼分贓的問題所以我們很希望在民主基金會的議題上面我們是用朝野合作來去思考這個問題"},{"start":269.577,"end":292.213,"text":"就像這個國會議長其實是當然董事但我們也遵循慣例所以國會議長現在是董事長那這部分我們給予非常非常大的尊重跟尊敬但同時我覺得一個重點我一直在強調關於民主基金會問題重點是他這個執行長的人選能不能夠貫徹總統的外交策略方針的問題"},{"start":293.354,"end":322.33,"text":"而總統在我們國際上面也很清楚把台灣跟中國的定位其實我們也說得很清楚就是中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬我們真的不希望到時候其實執行長也要來備詢結果未來執行長在這邊備詢跟外交部長一起備詢的時候一個主張中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬另外一個主張九二共是一個中國"},{"start":324.662,"end":342.9,"text":"這兩個主張假如互相漢革其實絕對會是對我們外交政策非常非常大的影響部長同意嗎是因為齁其實所謂民主機會是廣義的惡鬼外交那就是有一鬼外交嘛一鬼外交就是政府尤其外交部的外交嘛阿如果惡鬼外交跟一鬼外交打架的話"},{"start":343.701,"end":360.033,"text":"那這不但沒有幫忙一軌外交而且是雙頭馬車我沒有真的個人我是說如果如同剛剛委員所提的因為對於總統的外交政策因為他要負全責嘛那不支持的話那這個當然委員上次也質詢過這個會是一個"},{"start":363.035,"end":366.658,"text":"涉及到董事會在行使同意權的時候很關切的問題"},{"start":393.055,"end":394.936,"text":"我不是董事我不是董事我不是董事"},{"start":421.725,"end":438.867,"text":"對有其他董事但我說我作為一個國會議員在外交國防委員會的委員我做出我們覺得這是一個責任政治的問題因為這些所有的外交成果最後都還是總統要負責這是為什麼大家一直說執行長的人選要尊重總統最重要的原因這尊重總統不是因為只是總統比較大"},{"start":440.029,"end":440.189,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":457.355,"end":481.112,"text":"作出這樣的要求而且我覺得這也是一個合理的要求以上好不好這部長這部分部長我接下來有幾個事情是想要來跟部長講其實部長今天有講到跨境鎮壓的問題那我們之前這個其實對跨境鎮壓問題其實也很關注那相關的報告還是要請部長提供給我們那另外是之前在你上任之前在這個"},{"start":482.893,"end":499.486,"text":"之前的質詢吳部長其實有答應過我們其實因為我們有旅居丹麥的國人被標記為中國公民的問題那我當時有請他給予說我們到底國人會有什麼生活的影響希望提交給我們報告但目前這個報告其實還沒有給我們第二個事情是"},{"start":500.868,"end":520.706,"text":"我在當時其實有請外交部去盤點哪些國家把我國拘留證標記為中國或無國籍的統計資料但我們現在收到外交部的資料但坦白說內容我們有點失望我們現在看到外交部提供的資料裡面只有12個國家將我國的拘留標記為中國或無國籍但就我們所知明明冰島"},{"start":521.807,"end":541.532,"text":"其實在2016的時候也把我們台灣人的居留證把它標記為中國籍可是在外交部上面的資料卻沒有看到冰島所以我們其實有一點懷疑現在這個外交部提供的盤點的資料是不是足夠的完整那在這一次我要跟部長報告我時間可能有限了"},{"start":542.432,"end":564.588,"text":"不然我們其實也要求外交部去盤點如果各國將我國的居留證標記為中國跟無國籍的時候可能對我們自己的國人會產生的生活影響可是我們看到很多都被外交部標記為無具體影響說實在我真的不相信我真的不相信假設別的國家把我們自己的僑民"},{"start":573.631,"end":591.542,"text":"我真的不相信可是我們很多部分我們都看到你們說無具體影響所以我自己感覺外交部是不是對於這個問題這個嚴肅的問題不夠重視所以不只資料的盤點也包括這些相關的分析的資料都有未盡之處這部分還是希望"},{"start":592.463,"end":604.588,"text":"林部長是不是可以回去再督導一下把這件事情弄清楚因為這時候有很多我們自己在其他國家遇到類似問題的人他都跟我們反映覺得好像我們部分的住處在協助他們的時候不夠積極"},{"start":606.257,"end":634.487,"text":"因為隨著中國就是對這個所謂境外跨境的鎮壓還有對於所謂的懲治台獨分子他的這種所謂長臂的管轄等等的越加的這個有這個壓迫性我們當然要對於用字還有涉及到這些可能有國籍意涵的我們要去在外交上去捍衛我們國人的權益沒錯因為中國現在他的他現在去壓迫這些國家"},{"start":635.987,"end":637.207,"text":"我希望能夠改善好不好這部分謝謝"}]}}}}