{"id":154399,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154399","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/20593d2379a5c68a1c744b105748c6076cd03fb23edab3c9084592ae7b5b568b0650c22a74c080455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"14:46:57 - 15:03:00","影片長度":"00:16:03","會議時間":"2024-06-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-28","start_time":"2024-06-28T14:46:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-28T15:03:00+08:00","duration":963,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議","id":"院會-11-1-20","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":59,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（14時47分）有請卓院長還有農業部陳部長。"],["主席：卓院長請備詢，還有農業部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：郭委員好。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝主席，兩位好。院長，今天算是國會職權修法之後，您第一次站在這個地方，您有說要以身試法，從早上試到現在，有沒有碰到一些上對下或者是有碰到一些怎麼樣，我就是比你大這樣子的狀況？你自己心裡目前感受如何？"],["卓院長榮泰：這四個字對我來講應該是中性的，絕對沒有任何不禮貌的感覺，但是早上質詢到現在，我覺得我們都能夠非常理性的來討論，因為我總希望用國會改革這樣的理由制定一個新的法案，是要雙方同時進步的。而且大家在裡面用很理性的對話，沒有那種高音調的、沒有那種手指對方的，這個才是真正國會論證、雙方彼此應該有的尊重，我希望這個風氣還有這種樣子能夠持續的進行下去。"],["郭委員昱晴：是，我們也樂見，我想不管是質詢或者是備詢，彼此尊重才是最重要的，不管過去或者是現在或者是將來，我都不會用上對下這樣子的質詢方式對待我們的部會首長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝院長。接下來我想要請教農業部，今天我所有主題其實都跟動保相關，這也是我個人非常關心的一些議題，我想私人狗場在臺灣的問題其實非常非常的多，就我所知，2022年農業部也曾經有列冊說要輔導臺灣大概將近178家的私人狗場，包含他們自己的土地能夠導向合法的狀況，但是後來因為土地編定的類別變更，這個成本比較高，當然也跟曠日廢時有一點關係，所以到後來是無疾而終啦！","昨天有一個新聞，我相信其實大家都知道了，就是內湖有一位寵物業者，他因為沒有跟鄰居達成共識，當然這可能也是跟地方──就是臺北市土地使用分區管制自治條例有關，所以也引發了他自殺這樣子一個令人遺憾的事情。","不過在這裡我還是要再次重申，因為其實寵物是家人，毛小孩的福利、保障動物的福利，這樣子的觀念其實不是只有這幾年，我相信將來也是。不管地方自治是怎麼樣執行，針對中央在對於所謂人和動物的實際關係以及他們的法律地位，我想這是大家你我都責無旁貸的一件事情。","回到3月1號我在總質詢的時候，當時您也是代理部長……"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：我相信您應該有聽到我在針對動保警察部分的一些需求，我想動保警察的議題我們已經討論了非常非常久，當時農業部也跟內政部承諾你們要合作設立所謂的動保警察，後續我的辦公室也都持續有在follow、追蹤，甚至有請一些部會人員也特別針對這些細節來做一些討論。當時我們幾經討論之後，賦予動檢員司法警察權，這個是我們大家都覺得可行的，而且可能是有共識的，所以我們也儘量希望能夠往這個部分來前進。當然也要搭配所謂的一些配套措施，包含人員要怎麼招聘、要怎麼專業訓練，以及他們的待遇跟加給部分要怎麼樣擬定才能夠留得住人，這也是很重要的一件事情。","但是就在今天的總質詢之前，我們再次跟動保司聯繫，在確定這件事情的時候，卻聽到了不一樣的答案。部長，您今天在這裡，我想直接問您會比較快一點，因為他們說賦予動保警察權可能對現有的一些制度會有一些些的重大影響，這影響到底是什麼？不可行的原因又是什麼？然後又說一個月後會有一個報告，所以現在無法透露。到底有什麼是不能說的秘密？在這裡我們不要把它當秘密，因為我想這是全民的期待，動保警察在國外行之有年，他們也做得非常好，不管是英國也好、美國也好、荷蘭也好，我想有這麼好的範本都已經在前面示範了，沒有理由臺灣做不到。這個部分我想要知道一下，到底什麼叫做秘密？這個秘密可不可以在這邊公開呢？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明一下，謝謝委員長期對於動保，特別是動物福利、動物保護的關注。絕對沒有什麼秘密，我們在考慮動保的司法警察權時，大概用兩個階段，我們用非常務實的方式，先讓動保檢查人員……"],["郭委員昱晴：動檢員。"],["陳部長駿季：賦予他一個授權，能夠針對一些私領域，過去動保人員都不能進到私領域去調查，我們先處理這個區塊，讓動保檢查人員能夠進到私領域。第二個階段，因為動保警察本身，我們那時候考慮到現在動保人員的流動率非常高……"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["陳部長駿季：相對的，你要去賦予警察的司法職權時，他必須有相關的受訓，以及動保技能也要受訓，所以我們是希望在有比較正式編制的時候，才有可能把他結合在一起，不然直接讓動保人員去做司法警察工作，在他流動率很高的時候，就會造成一些缺口。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以我剛剛有說嘛！包含人員的訓練，這也是很重要啊！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["郭委員昱晴：只是我們每一次在討論到這個話題的時候，像這樣子的一個說法就進來了……"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["郭委員昱晴：但是每一次，大概幾個月又聽到類似這樣子的一個說法，到底我們什麼時候才能夠真正實施？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我的作法就是分兩階段，先賦予動保檢查人員職權，能夠進到私領域去查，這個部分先走。第二個部分，其實我們也在跟人事總處再去處理，因為不管是地方政府也好，我們希望爭取的是一個正式的人員資格，這樣的話，以後的受訓才有其意義。如果用臨時人員或是用計畫人員去受訓的時候，他的流動率太高，而人事總處這邊，我希望能夠在有比較明確的人員時，我們就會來……因為內部的這些訓練規劃，其實我們已經有一些規劃了。"],["郭委員昱晴：有一些規劃，大概什麼時候可以有一個比較進程的計畫？因為剛剛有提到，他說一個月後會有一個明確的報告，是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們的報告包括，我們的動保檢查人員在執行這些司法警察相關權力的時候，他必須要有的職能，這些職能本身的基準，跟他後面的一個訓練計畫，我們會先做一個完整的擬定，然後人員的部分我們會積極地跟人事總處這邊瞭解。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以動保司回應我的就是，一個月之後會有一個比較完整的計畫、初步的計畫。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我會跟他們再討論，把一個……"],["郭委員昱晴：再確定？"],["陳部長駿季：很明確地把這些我們做的進度跟委員報告。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，接下來我要問關於認養的黑名單跟灰名單之類的問題，這個其實也是一個問題，我想現在只要有身分證字號，或者是出生年月日，其實我們都可以在寵登的系統上面看得出來這個人有沒有違反動保法、有沒有一些紀錄，還有包含他曾經養過多少隻的貓狗等等，這是很清楚的一塊。如果我沒記錯的話，其實去年的時候，農業部跟衛福部也已經特別地完成了違反家暴的一個防治法。"],["陳部長駿季：對，介接……"],["郭委員昱晴：還有違反動保法的一些名單上面的交流，或者是這個資料上面的串聯，一般民眾可以藉由寵登系統去查到要領養我貓狗的人有沒有什麼樣的不良紀錄，但是針對違反家暴法紀錄的這個部分，一般民眾其實在一般的系統上面是看不到的，這個說法是說因為隱私權，我想同樣地，違反動保法的紀錄我們看得到，但違反家暴法的紀錄我們卻看不到，這個標準是怎麼訂出來的？"],["陳部長駿季：我想可能委員有點誤會，就是我們跟動保，跟衛福部的家暴系統做連結，這個連結是因為有家暴跟動物虐待的部分，本身之間有它的關聯性，變成一個風險區，現在有提供送養單位去查，是公家單位可以查，但是因為……"],["郭委員昱晴：一般民眾是沒辦法查的。"],["陳部長駿季：對，公家的送養單位可以查，但是民間是不可以查得到的，因為它牽扯到特別是在家暴的部分，如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候，那變成是一個滿嚴重的隱私揭露，在這個部分，其實是為了保障他的隱私，而且目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴，我就不能認養，這之間的關聯性，我們只是把它列為高風險區，所以我現在也在跟同仁討論，後續怎麼樣用一個示警的方式，而不是用揭露這個人本身過去的紀錄，我覺得用高風險的概念提出一個示警，這樣的話，在不揭露的情況之下……"],["郭委員昱晴：這個也是我們比較擔心的，因為我們知道有很多所謂情商有一些狀況的，包含我們曾經講過的茶茶案，其實就是恐怖情人所為嘛。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以其實會有這樣子傾向的人，他極有可能就是剛剛您說的，是高風險的族群，如果我的寵物或者是我的貓狗，是被高風險的人認養的話，的確也有可能產生這樣子的問題。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以這部分，你們可能要儘量找出一個折衷的辦法，也讓一般的民眾能夠知道。"],["陳部長駿季：我想是不是可以在不揭露個人資訊、他的詳細資訊的前提之下，用風險等級方式，讓這個送養單位去做查核？這樣的話，我想一方面保護了個人的隱私，另一方面也確保我們的寵物給領養人的時候是受到照顧的情況。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，接下來，我上一次其實在總質詢有特別提到，我們入境檢疫所放寬的一個方式，就是寵物的主人想要多次地去探望自己從國外帶回來的貓狗狀況，如果牠是在檢疫所當中，但是目前為止……","我那時候其實有特別講過，我們家的貓貓狗狗如果在我們要出國的時候也是送旅館，旅館其實也有24小時，我隨時只要跟它連線之後，就可以看得到我自己的貓狗在寵物旅館的狀況，沒道理我們自己本身的檢疫所是做不到的，這個部分現在大概做到什麼樣的地步？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我非常認同委員的說法，現在針對隔離檢疫的場所，我也特別在關心，我們已經提供一些經費給它做一些基本的維修，讓牠在這7天的隔離期間會有一個比較好的舒適環境。第二個部分……"],["郭委員昱晴：探視的次數可以增加嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：那個即時的監測，我會要求他們，因為現在每一個籠都有監視器。"],["郭委員昱晴：對。"],["陳部長駿季：然後我會給他一個特定的帳號密碼，在牠隔離期間，隨時可以看，而不是說你現在打電話來，我再提供，我覺得這是被動的服務，我希望能夠做一個主動的服務，像貓狗旅館這種，我想我們會儘快去實施。","第三個就是探視的部分，現在北部觀音的部分是可以預約的；南部則是在中興大學跟屏科大本身的獸醫院，因為它是教學醫院，本身是沒有辦法接受預約的，但這個部分我們會再跟他們協調，的確，自己的寵物到了一個陌生的環境之下，可能會有一些恐慌，所以多讓飼主去探視，我覺得這是必要的……"],["郭委員昱晴：比較有人性啦！"],["陳部長駿季：所以我會朝這個方向努力，然後飼主看不到的時候，可以用監視器來看，大概會用這樣一個方式來處理。"],["郭委員昱晴：因為我們知道小港機場的入境隔離檢驗所，必須要寵物的主人到當地，也就是到檢疫所裡面，但還是要透過鏡頭才能看得到，並沒有辦法直接跟自己的寵物接觸，這個部分我是覺得稍微比較冰冷一點，所以希望可以稍微再改一下。"],["陳部長駿季：對！我瞭解這整個的過程，我覺得有些東西是有需要再精進的地方，我一定會朝這個方向來做。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，謝謝部長。","接下來還有多元寵物分類分級的管理制度，因為現在不管是在夜市也好，夾娃娃店也好，其實我們都會看得到類似多元、不同的寵物，已經不再只是貓狗而已。2022年農業部寵物管理科當時也設定了這樣一個目標，就是有多元寵物分級分類的管理機制，當然也有所謂的白名單、黑名單，白名單就是一般像貓、狗，這個其實就是屬於所謂的寵物白名單，但是針對所謂白名單的部分，當然也有一個重點是就動物福利為主旨來做指引，就是教導民眾要怎麼樣來重視動物的福利。","另外就是在黑名單的部分，其實還有落日條款，還有退場的機制，這個也一定要成立，但是從2022年到現在，將近兩年的時間過去了，寵物名單的分級分類管理制度，現在到底進行到哪裡了？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，去年8月1號我們農業部成立了動保司，而動保司目前正在積極做這樣一個工作，特別是在犬隻的部分，因為飼主的責任是非常重要的，所以我們已經訂定了有關於飼主本身的飼養責任的指引跟檢索，一方面可以提供給飼主瞭解，一方面也可以給動保檢查人員瞭解。","第二個部分，就是我們現在正在做動保法的修法，動保法的修法裡面會把整個分類分級來做處理，同時寵物食品的部分，也會一併納入專章來處理，之前院長也承諾我們在今年年底之前一定會送到立法院來審查。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我想稽查是一個重點，如果稽查沒有到位，其實很多都是空談。"],["陳部長駿季：我知道。"],["郭委員昱晴：在這邊也謝謝部長、謝謝院長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員，謝謝卓院長還有部長。下一位請陳素月委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":88,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-20","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","賴士葆","蘇清泉","顏寬恒","馬文君","謝衣鳯","丁學忠","郭昱晴","陳素月","黃秀芳","蔡其昌","張啓楷","林德福","黃國昌"],"page_start":27,"meetingDate":["2024-06-28"],"gazette_id":"1136401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136401_00002","1136401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第20次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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\"﹚檢討委員﹚\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"﹚\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 524.565, \"end\": 524.585, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"﹚\"}]}, {\"start\": 554.104, \"end\": 581.852, \"text\": \"﹗\", \"words\": []}, {\"start\": 582.222, \"end\": 600.367, \"text\": \"我想可能委員有一點誤會,就是我們跟動保跟我們的這個衛福部的家暴系統做連結,那這個連結可以因為有家暴跟有做動物虐待本身之間有它的關聯性,變成一個風險區,那現在目前提供這種送養單位去查的時候是公家單位可以查,\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 582.222, \"end\": 582.382, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 582.382, \"end\": 582.902, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 582.902, \"end\": 583.002, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 583.002, \"end\": 583.382, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 583.382, \"end\": 583.642, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 583.642, \"end\": 584.083, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 584.083, \"end\": 584.743, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 584.743, \"end\": 584.863, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 584.863, \"end\": 584.983, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 584.983, \"end\": 585.243, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 585.243, \"end\": 585.703, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 585.703, \"end\": 586.003, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 586.003, \"end\": 586.563, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 586.563, \"end\": 586.803, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 586.803, \"end\": 587.283, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 587.283, \"end\": 587.463, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 587.463, \"end\": 587.583, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 587.583, \"end\": 587.824, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 587.824, \"end\": 588.024, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"暴\", \"start\": 588.024, \"end\": 588.204, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 588.204, \"end\": 588.524, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 588.524, \"end\": 589.444, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 589.444, \"end\": 590.264, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 590.264, \"end\": 590.404, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 590.404, \"end\": 590.544, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 590.544, \"end\": 590.864, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 590.864, \"end\": 591.044, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 591.044, \"end\": 591.264, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"暴\", \"start\": 591.264, \"end\": 591.485, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 591.485, \"end\": 591.985, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 591.985, \"end\": 592.385, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 592.385, \"end\": 592.725, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 592.725, \"end\": 592.785, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"虐\", \"start\": 592.785, \"end\": 592.985, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 592.985, \"end\": 593.225, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 593.225, \"end\": 593.345, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 593.345, \"end\": 593.505, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 593.505, \"end\": 593.745, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 593.745, \"end\": 593.885, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 593.885, \"end\": 593.985, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 593.985, \"end\": 594.745, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", 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\"end\": 598.446, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 598.446, \"end\": 598.646, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 598.646, \"end\": 598.866, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 598.866, \"end\": 599.006, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 599.006, \"end\": 599.207, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 599.207, \"end\": 599.427, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 599.427, \"end\": 599.627, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 599.627, \"end\": 599.967, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 599.967, \"end\": 600.087, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 600.087, \"end\": 600.187, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 600.187, \"end\": 600.347, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 600.347, \"end\": 600.367, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \",\"}]}, {\"start\": 601.127, \"end\": 624.625, \"text\": \"但是一般民眾是沒辦法查的是公家的送養單位是可以查但是民間是不可以查得到的因為他簽得到特別是在家暴的部分如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候那變成是一個蠻嚴重的一個隱私的一個揭露那在這個部分其實為了保障他的隱私而且現在目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴我就不能認養\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 601.127, \"end\": 601.247, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 601.247, \"end\": 601.407, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 601.407, \"end\": 601.567, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 601.567, \"end\": 601.728, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 601.728, \"end\": 602.048, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 602.048, \"end\": 602.148, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 602.148, \"end\": 602.428, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 602.428, \"end\": 602.588, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 602.588, \"end\": 602.788, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 602.788, \"end\": 602.928, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 602.928, \"end\": 603.089, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,418 --> 00:00:01,038\n質詢。有請卓院長還有農業部陳部長。卓院長請背信,還有農業部長請背信。謝謝主席。公務員好。\n\n2\n00:01:32,506 --> 00:01:53,343\n我希望這個這個風氣還有這種的這樣子能夠持續的進行下去是我們也樂見我想這個不管是質詢或者是被詢彼此尊重才是最重要的不管過去或者是現在或者是將來我都不會用上對下這樣子的質詢方式對待我們的這個部會首長謝謝委員謝謝院長\n\n3\n00:01:54,005 --> 00:02:18,653\n好,那接下來我想要請教就是農業部這個部分了。那今天我針對所有的主題其實都跟動保相關。那這也是我個人非常關心的一些議題啦。那我想這個私人狗場其實在台灣的問題其實非常非常的多。那就我所知其實2022年我們農業部也曾經有列冊說要輔導台灣大概將近有178家的一些私人狗場。\n\n4\n00:02:19,293 --> 00:02:19,313\n﹚廣告\n\n5\n00:03:01,324 --> 00:03:27,262\n不過在這裡我還是要再次重申因為其實寵物是家人毛小孩的福利保障動物的一個福利其實這樣子的一個觀念其實不是只有這幾年我相信將來也是那不管地方自治是怎麼樣來執行其實針對我們的中央在對於所謂的人和動物的實際的一個關係還有他們的法律的一個地位我想這是大家你我都不能夠\n\n6\n00:03:28,303 --> 00:03:29,384\n三、四、五、六、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n7\n00:03:42,605 --> 00:03:42,625\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n8\n00:04:09,497 --> 00:04:29,719\n當時其實我們幾經討論之後,賦予動檢員司法警察權。這個當時是我們大家都覺得是可行,而且可能是有共識的。所以我們也盡量希望能夠往這個部分來做前進。當然也要搭配所謂的一些配套的措施,包含人員要怎麼招聘。\n\n9\n00:04:47,014 --> 00:04:50,776\n在確定這件事情的時候我們卻聽到了不一樣的答案在這裡我想部長您今天在這裡我想直接問您會比較快一點因為他們說這個賦予動保警察權可能會對現有的一些制度會有一些些的重大的影響那這影響到底是什麼那不可行的原因又是什麼\n\n10\n00:05:10,529 --> 00:05:25,946\n然後又說了一個月後會有一個報告所以現在無法透露到底有什麼是不能說的秘密在這裡我們不要把它當秘密因為我想這是全民的期待啦動保警察在國外行之有年\n\n11\n00:05:26,246 --> 00:05:26,266\n拜訪議員\n\n12\n00:05:43,534 --> 00:06:01,364\n跟委員說明一下謝謝委員長期對我們動保特別是動物福利動物保護的關注那絕對沒有什麼秘密就是在我們在考慮動保警察的司法警察權的時候我們大概用兩個階段我們用非常務實的方式就是先讓\n\n13\n00:06:02,384 --> 00:06:07,125\n我們先處理這個區塊讓我們動保檢查人員能夠進到私領域然後第二個階段因為動保警察本身我們那時候考慮到現在的動保人員他的流動率非常高\n\n14\n00:06:27,710 --> 00:06:48,961\n相對的你要去賦予警察的司法職權的時候他必須相關的一個授訓然後動保的一個技能他也要授訓所以我們是希望要有正式的比較正式的編制的時候才有可能把它結在一起不然你直接讓這個動保人員去做司法警察的工作的時候他的流動率很高的時候就會造成一些缺口\n\n15\n00:06:49,501 --> 00:07:05,900\n我剛剛有說嘛,包含人員的訓練這也是很重要的。只是說我們每一次在討論到這個話題的時候,像這樣子的一個說法就進來了。但是就每一次大概就幾個月又聽到類似的這樣子的一個說法,那到底我們什麼時候才能夠真正的實施?\n\n16\n00:07:06,780 --> 00:07:25,975\n我的做法就是說我分兩階段先把動保檢查人員能夠賦予他的職權能夠進到私領域去查這個先走然後第二個部分其實我們也在跟人事總處再去處理因為我們希望說爭取的是一個不管是地方政府也好有一個正式的人員的資格那這樣的話以後的授訓\n\n17\n00:07:27,096 --> 00:07:30,559\n那有一些規劃但是大概什麼時候可以有一個比較進程的一個計劃因為剛剛有提到他說一個月後會有一個明確的報告是嗎\n\n18\n00:07:55,803 --> 00:08:16,085\n對我們的報告就是包括我們的動保檢查人員在執行這些司法警察的相關的權利的時候他必須要有的職能然後這些職能本身的這些基準跟他的後面的一個訓練計畫我們會先把它做一個完整的擬定了以後然後人員的部分我們會積極的跟人事總書這邊去了解\n\n19\n00:08:16,414 --> 00:08:44,085\n所以動保司回應我的就是一個月之後會有一個比較完成的一個計畫,初步的一個計畫。對,我會跟他們在討論,把一個很明確的這些我們做的進度來跟委員報告。好,那接著下來我要問一下就是關於所謂的認養的黑名單跟灰名單之類的問題。這個其實也是一個問題。我想現在只要有身分證字號或者是出生年月日,其實我們都可以在寵登的系統上面,其實就可以看得出來說這個人他有沒有違反動保法。\n\n20\n00:08:44,565 --> 00:08:44,585\n﹚檢討委員﹚\n\n21\n00:09:42,222 --> 00:10:00,367\n我想可能委員有一點誤會,就是我們跟動保跟我們的這個衛福部的家暴系統做連結,那這個連結可以因為有家暴跟有做動物虐待本身之間有它的關聯性,變成一個風險區,那現在目前提供這種送養單位去查的時候是公家單位可以查,\n\n22\n00:10:01,127 --> 00:10:24,625\n但是一般民眾是沒辦法查的是公家的送養單位是可以查但是民間是不可以查得到的因為他簽得到特別是在家暴的部分如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候那變成是一個蠻嚴重的一個隱私的一個揭露那在這個部分其實為了保障他的隱私而且現在目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴我就不能認養\n\n23\n00:10:25,606 --> 00:10:25,766\n﹚指出一個市井\n\n24\n00:10:43,168 --> 00:10:56,783\n這個也是我們比較擔心因為我們知道有很多的所謂的情商有一些狀況的包含我們曾經講過的查查案其實就是恐怖情人所為嘛所以其實會有這樣子的傾向的人他極有可能就是\n\n25\n00:10:57,644 --> 00:11:11,814\n剛您說的就是高風險的族群那如果我的寵物或者是我的貓狗是被高風險的人去認養的話的確有可能產生這樣子的一個問題所以這部分我們可能也盡量能夠找出中間折衷的一個辦法\n\n26\n00:11:13,094 --> 00:11:32,259\n我想只是可以再揭露個人資訊,它的詳細的資訊的前提之下,用風險的等級去讓送飲單位去做查核。那這樣的話我想一方面保護了個人的隱私,一方面也確保我們的寵物給領養人的時候是一個受到照顧的一個對象。\n\n27\n00:11:33,579 --> 00:11:43,754\n是,好,那接下來就是也是在我上一次其實在總質詢我有特別提到的啦就是我們的入境檢疫所的一個放寬的一個這個方式啦,就是從\n\n28\n00:11:44,616 --> 00:11:49,500\n目前為止我那時候其實有特別講過我們家如果貓貓狗狗我們要出國的時候也是送旅館那旅館其實也有24小時我隨時只要跟他就是連線之後我可以看得到我自己的貓狗在寵物旅館的一個狀況那沒道理我們自己本身的檢驗所是做不到的\n\n29\n00:12:12,717 --> 00:12:33,210\n那這個部分呢,現在大概做到什麼樣的地步?我非常認同委員的說法,就是我們現在針對隔離檢疫的這個場合,特別在關心我們已經提供一些經費給他做一些基本的維修,讓他的這個7天的隔離的時間會比較好的一個舒適環境。那第二個部分是…碳濕的次數可以增加嗎?對,然後…\n\n30\n00:12:35,259 --> 00:13:01,865\n那個監測的即時的監測我會要求他們就是說因為現在每一個龍都有監視器然後我給他一個特定的帳號密碼他就在他隔離期間他隨時可以看而不是說現在目前你打電話來我在提供我覺得是被動的服務我希望說做一個主動的服務好像貓狗旅館這個我想我們盡快會去實施然後第三個部分是探視的部分那探視的部分大概現在北部的在觀影的部分是可以有預約的\n\n31\n00:13:02,825 --> 00:13:27,629\n那南部是中興大學跟平科大本身的授意願,他是因為他教學意願,他本身是沒有辦法接受預約的部分。但這個部分我想我們會再跟他協調,因為我想自己的寵物到了一個陌生的環境之下,可能會有一些恐慌。多讓事主去探視,我覺得這是必要的啦。所以我會朝這個方向去努力,然後看不到的時候用監視器來看,大概用這樣的一個方式來處理。\n\n32\n00:13:28,049 --> 00:13:53,926\n因為我們知道其實小港機場的入境的這個隔離檢驗所他們是必須要寵物的主人到當地就是到檢驗所裡面我還是要透過鏡頭才能看得到我是沒有辦法直接跟自己的寵物接觸的這個部分我覺得是有一點稍微比較冰冷一點這個部分可以稍微再改我了解整個的過程我覺得有些東西是太有需要可以再精進的一個地方我一定會去朝這個方向來做\n\n33\n00:13:55,607 --> 00:14:09,723\n接下來當然還有這個多元寵物分類分級的管理的制度了,因為現在其實不管在夜市也好,夾娃娃店也好,其實我們都會看得到類似就是多元不同的寵物已經不再只是貓狗而已了。\n\n34\n00:14:10,303 --> 00:14:10,323\n﹚廣告\n\n35\n00:15:06,292 --> 00:15:34,430\n我跟委員說明就是去年8月1號我們農業部成立了一個動保師那其實動保師現在目前正在積極去做這樣子的一個工作特別是我們在犬隻的因為事主的責任是一個非常重要的所以我們已經訂定有關於事主本身的一個飼養責任的一個指引跟檢索這樣一方面有可以給事主去了解一方面也可以給動保檢查人員去了解然後第二個部分就是我們現在正在做動保法的修法\n\n36\n00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:35,310\n好謝謝國務委員謝謝卓院長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n418\t1038\t質詢。有請卓院長還有農業部陳部長。卓院長請背信,還有農業部長請背信。謝謝主席。公務員好。\n92506\t113343\t我希望這個這個風氣還有這種的這樣子能夠持續的進行下去是我們也樂見我想這個不管是質詢或者是被詢彼此尊重才是最重要的不管過去或者是現在或者是將來我都不會用上對下這樣子的質詢方式對待我們的這個部會首長謝謝委員謝謝院長\n114005\t138653\t好,那接下來我想要請教就是農業部這個部分了。那今天我針對所有的主題其實都跟動保相關。那這也是我個人非常關心的一些議題啦。那我想這個私人狗場其實在台灣的問題其實非常非常的多。那就我所知其實2022年我們農業部也曾經有列冊說要輔導台灣大概將近有178家的一些私人狗場。\n139293\t139313\t﹚廣告\n165794\t181084\t﹏﹏\n181324\t207262\t不過在這裡我還是要再次重申因為其實寵物是家人毛小孩的福利保障動物的一個福利其實這樣子的一個觀念其實不是只有這幾年我相信將來也是那不管地方自治是怎麼樣來執行其實針對我們的中央在對於所謂的人和動物的實際的一個關係還有他們的法律的一個地位我想這是大家你我都不能夠\n208303\t209384\t三、四、五、六、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n222605\t222625\t﹝廣告﹞\n249497\t269719\t當時其實我們幾經討論之後,賦予動檢員司法警察權。這個當時是我們大家都覺得是可行,而且可能是有共識的。所以我們也盡量希望能夠往這個部分來做前進。當然也要搭配所謂的一些配套的措施,包含人員要怎麼招聘。\n270179\t286954\t﹏﹏\n287014\t290776\t在確定這件事情的時候我們卻聽到了不一樣的答案在這裡我想部長您今天在這裡我想直接問您會比較快一點因為他們說這個賦予動保警察權可能會對現有的一些制度會有一些些的重大的影響那這影響到底是什麼那不可行的原因又是什麼\n310529\t325946\t然後又說了一個月後會有一個報告所以現在無法透露到底有什麼是不能說的秘密在這裡我們不要把它當秘密因為我想這是全民的期待啦動保警察在國外行之有年\n326246\t326266\t拜訪議員\n343534\t361364\t跟委員說明一下謝謝委員長期對我們動保特別是動物福利動物保護的關注那絕對沒有什麼秘密就是在我們在考慮動保警察的司法警察權的時候我們大概用兩個階段我們用非常務實的方式就是先讓\n362384\t367125\t我們先處理這個區塊讓我們動保檢查人員能夠進到私領域然後第二個階段因為動保警察本身我們那時候考慮到現在的動保人員他的流動率非常高\n387710\t408961\t相對的你要去賦予警察的司法職權的時候他必須相關的一個授訓然後動保的一個技能他也要授訓所以我們是希望要有正式的比較正式的編制的時候才有可能把它結在一起不然你直接讓這個動保人員去做司法警察的工作的時候他的流動率很高的時候就會造成一些缺口\n409501\t425900\t我剛剛有說嘛,包含人員的訓練這也是很重要的。只是說我們每一次在討論到這個話題的時候,像這樣子的一個說法就進來了。但是就每一次大概就幾個月又聽到類似的這樣子的一個說法,那到底我們什麼時候才能夠真正的實施?\n426780\t445975\t我的做法就是說我分兩階段先把動保檢查人員能夠賦予他的職權能夠進到私領域去查這個先走然後第二個部分其實我們也在跟人事總處再去處理因為我們希望說爭取的是一個不管是地方政府也好有一個正式的人員的資格那這樣的話以後的授訓\n447096\t450559\t那有一些規劃但是大概什麼時候可以有一個比較進程的一個計劃因為剛剛有提到他說一個月後會有一個明確的報告是嗎\n475803\t496085\t對我們的報告就是包括我們的動保檢查人員在執行這些司法警察的相關的權利的時候他必須要有的職能然後這些職能本身的這些基準跟他的後面的一個訓練計畫我們會先把它做一個完整的擬定了以後然後人員的部分我們會積極的跟人事總書這邊去了解\n496414\t524085\t所以動保司回應我的就是一個月之後會有一個比較完成的一個計畫,初步的一個計畫。對,我會跟他們在討論,把一個很明確的這些我們做的進度來跟委員報告。好,那接著下來我要問一下就是關於所謂的認養的黑名單跟灰名單之類的問題。這個其實也是一個問題。我想現在只要有身分證字號或者是出生年月日,其實我們都可以在寵登的系統上面,其實就可以看得出來說這個人他有沒有違反動保法。\n524565\t524585\t﹚檢討委員﹚\n554104\t581852\t﹗\n582222\t600367\t我想可能委員有一點誤會,就是我們跟動保跟我們的這個衛福部的家暴系統做連結,那這個連結可以因為有家暴跟有做動物虐待本身之間有它的關聯性,變成一個風險區,那現在目前提供這種送養單位去查的時候是公家單位可以查,\n601127\t624625\t但是一般民眾是沒辦法查的是公家的送養單位是可以查但是民間是不可以查得到的因為他簽得到特別是在家暴的部分如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候那變成是一個蠻嚴重的一個隱私的一個揭露那在這個部分其實為了保障他的隱私而且現在目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴我就不能認養\n625606\t625766\t﹚指出一個市井\n643168\t656783\t這個也是我們比較擔心因為我們知道有很多的所謂的情商有一些狀況的包含我們曾經講過的查查案其實就是恐怖情人所為嘛所以其實會有這樣子的傾向的人他極有可能就是\n657644\t671814\t剛您說的就是高風險的族群那如果我的寵物或者是我的貓狗是被高風險的人去認養的話的確有可能產生這樣子的一個問題所以這部分我們可能也盡量能夠找出中間折衷的一個辦法\n673094\t692259\t我想只是可以再揭露個人資訊,它的詳細的資訊的前提之下,用風險的等級去讓送飲單位去做查核。那這樣的話我想一方面保護了個人的隱私,一方面也確保我們的寵物給領養人的時候是一個受到照顧的一個對象。\n693579\t703754\t是,好,那接下來就是也是在我上一次其實在總質詢我有特別提到的啦就是我們的入境檢疫所的一個放寬的一個這個方式啦,就是從\n704616\t709500\t目前為止我那時候其實有特別講過我們家如果貓貓狗狗我們要出國的時候也是送旅館那旅館其實也有24小時我隨時只要跟他就是連線之後我可以看得到我自己的貓狗在寵物旅館的一個狀況那沒道理我們自己本身的檢驗所是做不到的\n732717\t753210\t那這個部分呢,現在大概做到什麼樣的地步?我非常認同委員的說法,就是我們現在針對隔離檢疫的這個場合,特別在關心我們已經提供一些經費給他做一些基本的維修,讓他的這個7天的隔離的時間會比較好的一個舒適環境。那第二個部分是… 碳濕的次數可以增加嗎?對,然後…\n755259\t781865\t那個監測的即時的監測我會要求他們就是說因為現在每一個龍都有監視器然後我給他一個特定的帳號密碼他就在他隔離期間他隨時可以看而不是說現在目前你打電話來我在提供我覺得是被動的服務我希望說做一個主動的服務好像貓狗旅館這個我想我們盡快會去實施然後第三個部分是探視的部分那探視的部分大概現在北部的在觀影的部分是可以有預約的\n782825\t807629\t那南部是中興大學跟平科大本身的授意願,他是因為他教學意願,他本身是沒有辦法接受預約的部分。但這個部分我想我們會再跟他協調,因為我想自己的寵物到了一個陌生的環境之下,可能會有一些恐慌。多讓事主去探視,我覺得這是必要的啦。所以我會朝這個方向去努力,然後看不到的時候用監視器來看,大概用這樣的一個方式來處理。\n808049\t833926\t因為我們知道其實小港機場的入境的這個隔離檢驗所他們是必須要寵物的主人到當地就是到檢驗所裡面我還是要透過鏡頭才能看得到我是沒有辦法直接跟自己的寵物接觸的這個部分我覺得是有一點稍微比較冰冷一點這個部分可以稍微再改我了解整個的過程我覺得有些東西是太有需要可以再精進的一個地方我一定會去朝這個方向來做\n835607\t849723\t接下來當然還有這個多元寵物分類分級的管理的制度了,因為現在其實不管在夜市也好,夾娃娃店也好,其實我們都會看得到類似就是多元不同的寵物已經不再只是貓狗而已了。\n850303\t850323\t﹚廣告\n868677\t883695\t﹗\n883695\t906032\t﹗\n906292\t934430\t我跟委員說明就是去年8月1號我們農業部成立了一個動保師那其實動保師現在目前正在積極去做這樣子的一個工作特別是我們在犬隻的因為事主的責任是一個非常重要的所以我們已經訂定有關於事主本身的一個飼養責任的一個指引跟檢索這樣一方面有可以給事主去了解一方面也可以給動保檢查人員去了解然後第二個部分就是我們現在正在做動保法的修法\n934870\t935310\t好謝謝國務委員謝謝卓院長\n","txt":"質詢。有請卓院長還有農業部陳部長。卓院長請背信,還有農業部長請背信。謝謝主席。公務員好。\n我希望這個這個風氣還有這種的這樣子能夠持續的進行下去是我們也樂見我想這個不管是質詢或者是被詢彼此尊重才是最重要的不管過去或者是現在或者是將來我都不會用上對下這樣子的質詢方式對待我們的這個部會首長謝謝委員謝謝院長\n好,那接下來我想要請教就是農業部這個部分了。那今天我針對所有的主題其實都跟動保相關。那這也是我個人非常關心的一些議題啦。那我想這個私人狗場其實在台灣的問題其實非常非常的多。那就我所知其實2022年我們農業部也曾經有列冊說要輔導台灣大概將近有178家的一些私人狗場。\n﹚廣告\n﹏﹏\n不過在這裡我還是要再次重申因為其實寵物是家人毛小孩的福利保障動物的一個福利其實這樣子的一個觀念其實不是只有這幾年我相信將來也是那不管地方自治是怎麼樣來執行其實針對我們的中央在對於所謂的人和動物的實際的一個關係還有他們的法律的一個地位我想這是大家你我都不能夠\n三、四、五、六、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n﹝廣告﹞\n當時其實我們幾經討論之後,賦予動檢員司法警察權。這個當時是我們大家都覺得是可行,而且可能是有共識的。所以我們也盡量希望能夠往這個部分來做前進。當然也要搭配所謂的一些配套的措施,包含人員要怎麼招聘。\n﹏﹏\n在確定這件事情的時候我們卻聽到了不一樣的答案在這裡我想部長您今天在這裡我想直接問您會比較快一點因為他們說這個賦予動保警察權可能會對現有的一些制度會有一些些的重大的影響那這影響到底是什麼那不可行的原因又是什麼\n然後又說了一個月後會有一個報告所以現在無法透露到底有什麼是不能說的秘密在這裡我們不要把它當秘密因為我想這是全民的期待啦動保警察在國外行之有年\n拜訪議員\n跟委員說明一下謝謝委員長期對我們動保特別是動物福利動物保護的關注那絕對沒有什麼秘密就是在我們在考慮動保警察的司法警察權的時候我們大概用兩個階段我們用非常務實的方式就是先讓\n我們先處理這個區塊讓我們動保檢查人員能夠進到私領域然後第二個階段因為動保警察本身我們那時候考慮到現在的動保人員他的流動率非常高\n相對的你要去賦予警察的司法職權的時候他必須相關的一個授訓然後動保的一個技能他也要授訓所以我們是希望要有正式的比較正式的編制的時候才有可能把它結在一起不然你直接讓這個動保人員去做司法警察的工作的時候他的流動率很高的時候就會造成一些缺口\n我剛剛有說嘛,包含人員的訓練這也是很重要的。只是說我們每一次在討論到這個話題的時候,像這樣子的一個說法就進來了。但是就每一次大概就幾個月又聽到類似的這樣子的一個說法,那到底我們什麼時候才能夠真正的實施?\n我的做法就是說我分兩階段先把動保檢查人員能夠賦予他的職權能夠進到私領域去查這個先走然後第二個部分其實我們也在跟人事總處再去處理因為我們希望說爭取的是一個不管是地方政府也好有一個正式的人員的資格那這樣的話以後的授訓\n那有一些規劃但是大概什麼時候可以有一個比較進程的一個計劃因為剛剛有提到他說一個月後會有一個明確的報告是嗎\n對我們的報告就是包括我們的動保檢查人員在執行這些司法警察的相關的權利的時候他必須要有的職能然後這些職能本身的這些基準跟他的後面的一個訓練計畫我們會先把它做一個完整的擬定了以後然後人員的部分我們會積極的跟人事總書這邊去了解\n所以動保司回應我的就是一個月之後會有一個比較完成的一個計畫,初步的一個計畫。對,我會跟他們在討論,把一個很明確的這些我們做的進度來跟委員報告。好,那接著下來我要問一下就是關於所謂的認養的黑名單跟灰名單之類的問題。這個其實也是一個問題。我想現在只要有身分證字號或者是出生年月日,其實我們都可以在寵登的系統上面,其實就可以看得出來說這個人他有沒有違反動保法。\n﹚檢討委員﹚\n﹗\n我想可能委員有一點誤會,就是我們跟動保跟我們的這個衛福部的家暴系統做連結,那這個連結可以因為有家暴跟有做動物虐待本身之間有它的關聯性,變成一個風險區,那現在目前提供這種送養單位去查的時候是公家單位可以查,\n但是一般民眾是沒辦法查的是公家的送養單位是可以查但是民間是不可以查得到的因為他簽得到特別是在家暴的部分如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候那變成是一個蠻嚴重的一個隱私的一個揭露那在這個部分其實為了保障他的隱私而且現在目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴我就不能認養\n﹚指出一個市井\n這個也是我們比較擔心因為我們知道有很多的所謂的情商有一些狀況的包含我們曾經講過的查查案其實就是恐怖情人所為嘛所以其實會有這樣子的傾向的人他極有可能就是\n剛您說的就是高風險的族群那如果我的寵物或者是我的貓狗是被高風險的人去認養的話的確有可能產生這樣子的一個問題所以這部分我們可能也盡量能夠找出中間折衷的一個辦法\n我想只是可以再揭露個人資訊,它的詳細的資訊的前提之下,用風險的等級去讓送飲單位去做查核。那這樣的話我想一方面保護了個人的隱私,一方面也確保我們的寵物給領養人的時候是一個受到照顧的一個對象。\n是,好,那接下來就是也是在我上一次其實在總質詢我有特別提到的啦就是我們的入境檢疫所的一個放寬的一個這個方式啦,就是從\n目前為止我那時候其實有特別講過我們家如果貓貓狗狗我們要出國的時候也是送旅館那旅館其實也有24小時我隨時只要跟他就是連線之後我可以看得到我自己的貓狗在寵物旅館的一個狀況那沒道理我們自己本身的檢驗所是做不到的\n那這個部分呢,現在大概做到什麼樣的地步?我非常認同委員的說法,就是我們現在針對隔離檢疫的這個場合,特別在關心我們已經提供一些經費給他做一些基本的維修,讓他的這個7天的隔離的時間會比較好的一個舒適環境。那第二個部分是… 碳濕的次數可以增加嗎?對,然後…\n那個監測的即時的監測我會要求他們就是說因為現在每一個龍都有監視器然後我給他一個特定的帳號密碼他就在他隔離期間他隨時可以看而不是說現在目前你打電話來我在提供我覺得是被動的服務我希望說做一個主動的服務好像貓狗旅館這個我想我們盡快會去實施然後第三個部分是探視的部分那探視的部分大概現在北部的在觀影的部分是可以有預約的\n那南部是中興大學跟平科大本身的授意願,他是因為他教學意願,他本身是沒有辦法接受預約的部分。但這個部分我想我們會再跟他協調,因為我想自己的寵物到了一個陌生的環境之下,可能會有一些恐慌。多讓事主去探視,我覺得這是必要的啦。所以我會朝這個方向去努力,然後看不到的時候用監視器來看,大概用這樣的一個方式來處理。\n因為我們知道其實小港機場的入境的這個隔離檢驗所他們是必須要寵物的主人到當地就是到檢驗所裡面我還是要透過鏡頭才能看得到我是沒有辦法直接跟自己的寵物接觸的這個部分我覺得是有一點稍微比較冰冷一點這個部分可以稍微再改我了解整個的過程我覺得有些東西是太有需要可以再精進的一個地方我一定會去朝這個方向來做\n接下來當然還有這個多元寵物分類分級的管理的制度了,因為現在其實不管在夜市也好,夾娃娃店也好,其實我們都會看得到類似就是多元不同的寵物已經不再只是貓狗而已了。\n﹚廣告\n﹗\n﹗\n我跟委員說明就是去年8月1號我們農業部成立了一個動保師那其實動保師現在目前正在積極去做這樣子的一個工作特別是我們在犬隻的因為事主的責任是一個非常重要的所以我們已經訂定有關於事主本身的一個飼養責任的一個指引跟檢索這樣一方面有可以給事主去了解一方面也可以給動保檢查人員去了解然後第二個部分就是我們現在正在做動保法的修法\n好謝謝國務委員謝謝卓院長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.418 --> 00:01.038\n質詢。有請卓院長還有農業部陳部長。卓院長請背信,還有農業部長請背信。謝謝主席。公務員好。\n\n01:32.506 --> 01:53.343\n我希望這個這個風氣還有這種的這樣子能夠持續的進行下去是我們也樂見我想這個不管是質詢或者是被詢彼此尊重才是最重要的不管過去或者是現在或者是將來我都不會用上對下這樣子的質詢方式對待我們的這個部會首長謝謝委員謝謝院長\n\n01:54.005 --> 02:18.653\n好,那接下來我想要請教就是農業部這個部分了。那今天我針對所有的主題其實都跟動保相關。那這也是我個人非常關心的一些議題啦。那我想這個私人狗場其實在台灣的問題其實非常非常的多。那就我所知其實2022年我們農業部也曾經有列冊說要輔導台灣大概將近有178家的一些私人狗場。\n\n02:19.293 --> 02:19.313\n﹚廣告\n\n03:01.324 --> 03:27.262\n不過在這裡我還是要再次重申因為其實寵物是家人毛小孩的福利保障動物的一個福利其實這樣子的一個觀念其實不是只有這幾年我相信將來也是那不管地方自治是怎麼樣來執行其實針對我們的中央在對於所謂的人和動物的實際的一個關係還有他們的法律的一個地位我想這是大家你我都不能夠\n\n03:28.303 --> 03:29.384\n三、四、五、六、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、\n\n03:42.605 --> 03:42.625\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n04:09.497 --> 04:29.719\n當時其實我們幾經討論之後,賦予動檢員司法警察權。這個當時是我們大家都覺得是可行,而且可能是有共識的。所以我們也盡量希望能夠往這個部分來做前進。當然也要搭配所謂的一些配套的措施,包含人員要怎麼招聘。\n\n04:47.014 --> 04:50.776\n在確定這件事情的時候我們卻聽到了不一樣的答案在這裡我想部長您今天在這裡我想直接問您會比較快一點因為他們說這個賦予動保警察權可能會對現有的一些制度會有一些些的重大的影響那這影響到底是什麼那不可行的原因又是什麼\n\n05:10.529 --> 05:25.946\n然後又說了一個月後會有一個報告所以現在無法透露到底有什麼是不能說的秘密在這裡我們不要把它當秘密因為我想這是全民的期待啦動保警察在國外行之有年\n\n05:26.246 --> 05:26.266\n拜訪議員\n\n05:43.534 --> 06:01.364\n跟委員說明一下謝謝委員長期對我們動保特別是動物福利動物保護的關注那絕對沒有什麼秘密就是在我們在考慮動保警察的司法警察權的時候我們大概用兩個階段我們用非常務實的方式就是先讓\n\n06:02.384 --> 06:07.125\n我們先處理這個區塊讓我們動保檢查人員能夠進到私領域然後第二個階段因為動保警察本身我們那時候考慮到現在的動保人員他的流動率非常高\n\n06:27.710 --> 06:48.961\n相對的你要去賦予警察的司法職權的時候他必須相關的一個授訓然後動保的一個技能他也要授訓所以我們是希望要有正式的比較正式的編制的時候才有可能把它結在一起不然你直接讓這個動保人員去做司法警察的工作的時候他的流動率很高的時候就會造成一些缺口\n\n06:49.501 --> 07:05.900\n我剛剛有說嘛,包含人員的訓練這也是很重要的。只是說我們每一次在討論到這個話題的時候,像這樣子的一個說法就進來了。但是就每一次大概就幾個月又聽到類似的這樣子的一個說法,那到底我們什麼時候才能夠真正的實施?\n\n07:06.780 --> 07:25.975\n我的做法就是說我分兩階段先把動保檢查人員能夠賦予他的職權能夠進到私領域去查這個先走然後第二個部分其實我們也在跟人事總處再去處理因為我們希望說爭取的是一個不管是地方政府也好有一個正式的人員的資格那這樣的話以後的授訓\n\n07:27.096 --> 07:30.559\n那有一些規劃但是大概什麼時候可以有一個比較進程的一個計劃因為剛剛有提到他說一個月後會有一個明確的報告是嗎\n\n07:55.803 --> 08:16.085\n對我們的報告就是包括我們的動保檢查人員在執行這些司法警察的相關的權利的時候他必須要有的職能然後這些職能本身的這些基準跟他的後面的一個訓練計畫我們會先把它做一個完整的擬定了以後然後人員的部分我們會積極的跟人事總書這邊去了解\n\n08:16.414 --> 08:44.085\n所以動保司回應我的就是一個月之後會有一個比較完成的一個計畫,初步的一個計畫。對,我會跟他們在討論,把一個很明確的這些我們做的進度來跟委員報告。好,那接著下來我要問一下就是關於所謂的認養的黑名單跟灰名單之類的問題。這個其實也是一個問題。我想現在只要有身分證字號或者是出生年月日,其實我們都可以在寵登的系統上面,其實就可以看得出來說這個人他有沒有違反動保法。\n\n08:44.565 --> 08:44.585\n﹚檢討委員﹚\n\n09:42.222 --> 10:00.367\n我想可能委員有一點誤會,就是我們跟動保跟我們的這個衛福部的家暴系統做連結,那這個連結可以因為有家暴跟有做動物虐待本身之間有它的關聯性,變成一個風險區,那現在目前提供這種送養單位去查的時候是公家單位可以查,\n\n10:01.127 --> 10:24.625\n但是一般民眾是沒辦法查的是公家的送養單位是可以查但是民間是不可以查得到的因為他簽得到特別是在家暴的部分如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候那變成是一個蠻嚴重的一個隱私的一個揭露那在這個部分其實為了保障他的隱私而且現在目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴我就不能認養\n\n10:25.606 --> 10:25.766\n﹚指出一個市井\n\n10:43.168 --> 10:56.783\n這個也是我們比較擔心因為我們知道有很多的所謂的情商有一些狀況的包含我們曾經講過的查查案其實就是恐怖情人所為嘛所以其實會有這樣子的傾向的人他極有可能就是\n\n10:57.644 --> 11:11.814\n剛您說的就是高風險的族群那如果我的寵物或者是我的貓狗是被高風險的人去認養的話的確有可能產生這樣子的一個問題所以這部分我們可能也盡量能夠找出中間折衷的一個辦法\n\n11:13.094 --> 11:32.259\n我想只是可以再揭露個人資訊,它的詳細的資訊的前提之下,用風險的等級去讓送飲單位去做查核。那這樣的話我想一方面保護了個人的隱私,一方面也確保我們的寵物給領養人的時候是一個受到照顧的一個對象。\n\n11:33.579 --> 11:43.754\n是,好,那接下來就是也是在我上一次其實在總質詢我有特別提到的啦就是我們的入境檢疫所的一個放寬的一個這個方式啦,就是從\n\n11:44.616 --> 11:49.500\n目前為止我那時候其實有特別講過我們家如果貓貓狗狗我們要出國的時候也是送旅館那旅館其實也有24小時我隨時只要跟他就是連線之後我可以看得到我自己的貓狗在寵物旅館的一個狀況那沒道理我們自己本身的檢驗所是做不到的\n\n12:12.717 --> 12:33.210\n那這個部分呢,現在大概做到什麼樣的地步?我非常認同委員的說法,就是我們現在針對隔離檢疫的這個場合,特別在關心我們已經提供一些經費給他做一些基本的維修,讓他的這個7天的隔離的時間會比較好的一個舒適環境。那第二個部分是…碳濕的次數可以增加嗎?對,然後…\n\n12:35.259 --> 13:01.865\n那個監測的即時的監測我會要求他們就是說因為現在每一個龍都有監視器然後我給他一個特定的帳號密碼他就在他隔離期間他隨時可以看而不是說現在目前你打電話來我在提供我覺得是被動的服務我希望說做一個主動的服務好像貓狗旅館這個我想我們盡快會去實施然後第三個部分是探視的部分那探視的部分大概現在北部的在觀影的部分是可以有預約的\n\n13:02.825 --> 13:27.629\n那南部是中興大學跟平科大本身的授意願,他是因為他教學意願,他本身是沒有辦法接受預約的部分。但這個部分我想我們會再跟他協調,因為我想自己的寵物到了一個陌生的環境之下,可能會有一些恐慌。多讓事主去探視,我覺得這是必要的啦。所以我會朝這個方向去努力,然後看不到的時候用監視器來看,大概用這樣的一個方式來處理。\n\n13:28.049 --> 13:53.926\n因為我們知道其實小港機場的入境的這個隔離檢驗所他們是必須要寵物的主人到當地就是到檢驗所裡面我還是要透過鏡頭才能看得到我是沒有辦法直接跟自己的寵物接觸的這個部分我覺得是有一點稍微比較冰冷一點這個部分可以稍微再改我了解整個的過程我覺得有些東西是太有需要可以再精進的一個地方我一定會去朝這個方向來做\n\n13:55.607 --> 14:09.723\n接下來當然還有這個多元寵物分類分級的管理的制度了,因為現在其實不管在夜市也好,夾娃娃店也好,其實我們都會看得到類似就是多元不同的寵物已經不再只是貓狗而已了。\n\n14:10.303 --> 14:10.323\n﹚廣告\n\n15:06.292 --> 15:34.430\n我跟委員說明就是去年8月1號我們農業部成立了一個動保師那其實動保師現在目前正在積極去做這樣子的一個工作特別是我們在犬隻的因為事主的責任是一個非常重要的所以我們已經訂定有關於事主本身的一個飼養責任的一個指引跟檢索這樣一方面有可以給事主去了解一方面也可以給動保檢查人員去了解然後第二個部分就是我們現在正在做動保法的修法\n\n15:34.870 --> 15:35.310\n好謝謝國務委員謝謝卓院長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.418,"end":1.038,"text":"質詢。有請卓院長還有農業部陳部長。卓院長請背信,還有農業部長請背信。謝謝主席。公務員好。"},{"start":92.506,"end":113.343,"text":"我希望這個這個風氣還有這種的這樣子能夠持續的進行下去是我們也樂見我想這個不管是質詢或者是被詢彼此尊重才是最重要的不管過去或者是現在或者是將來我都不會用上對下這樣子的質詢方式對待我們的這個部會首長謝謝委員謝謝院長"},{"start":114.005,"end":138.653,"text":"好,那接下來我想要請教就是農業部這個部分了。那今天我針對所有的主題其實都跟動保相關。那這也是我個人非常關心的一些議題啦。那我想這個私人狗場其實在台灣的問題其實非常非常的多。那就我所知其實2022年我們農業部也曾經有列冊說要輔導台灣大概將近有178家的一些私人狗場。"},{"start":139.293,"end":139.313,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":165.794,"end":181.084,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":181.324,"end":207.262,"text":"不過在這裡我還是要再次重申因為其實寵物是家人毛小孩的福利保障動物的一個福利其實這樣子的一個觀念其實不是只有這幾年我相信將來也是那不管地方自治是怎麼樣來執行其實針對我們的中央在對於所謂的人和動物的實際的一個關係還有他們的法律的一個地位我想這是大家你我都不能夠"},{"start":208.303,"end":209.384,"text":"三、四、五、六、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":222.605,"end":222.625,"text":"﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":249.497,"end":269.719,"text":"當時其實我們幾經討論之後,賦予動檢員司法警察權。這個當時是我們大家都覺得是可行,而且可能是有共識的。所以我們也盡量希望能夠往這個部分來做前進。當然也要搭配所謂的一些配套的措施,包含人員要怎麼招聘。"},{"start":270.179,"end":286.954,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":287.014,"end":290.776,"text":"在確定這件事情的時候我們卻聽到了不一樣的答案在這裡我想部長您今天在這裡我想直接問您會比較快一點因為他們說這個賦予動保警察權可能會對現有的一些制度會有一些些的重大的影響那這影響到底是什麼那不可行的原因又是什麼"},{"start":310.529,"end":325.946,"text":"然後又說了一個月後會有一個報告所以現在無法透露到底有什麼是不能說的秘密在這裡我們不要把它當秘密因為我想這是全民的期待啦動保警察在國外行之有年"},{"start":326.246,"end":326.266,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":343.534,"end":361.364,"text":"跟委員說明一下謝謝委員長期對我們動保特別是動物福利動物保護的關注那絕對沒有什麼秘密就是在我們在考慮動保警察的司法警察權的時候我們大概用兩個階段我們用非常務實的方式就是先讓"},{"start":362.384,"end":367.125,"text":"我們先處理這個區塊讓我們動保檢查人員能夠進到私領域然後第二個階段因為動保警察本身我們那時候考慮到現在的動保人員他的流動率非常高"},{"start":387.71,"end":408.961,"text":"相對的你要去賦予警察的司法職權的時候他必須相關的一個授訓然後動保的一個技能他也要授訓所以我們是希望要有正式的比較正式的編制的時候才有可能把它結在一起不然你直接讓這個動保人員去做司法警察的工作的時候他的流動率很高的時候就會造成一些缺口"},{"start":409.501,"end":425.9,"text":"我剛剛有說嘛,包含人員的訓練這也是很重要的。只是說我們每一次在討論到這個話題的時候,像這樣子的一個說法就進來了。但是就每一次大概就幾個月又聽到類似的這樣子的一個說法,那到底我們什麼時候才能夠真正的實施?"},{"start":426.78,"end":445.975,"text":"我的做法就是說我分兩階段先把動保檢查人員能夠賦予他的職權能夠進到私領域去查這個先走然後第二個部分其實我們也在跟人事總處再去處理因為我們希望說爭取的是一個不管是地方政府也好有一個正式的人員的資格那這樣的話以後的授訓"},{"start":447.096,"end":450.559,"text":"那有一些規劃但是大概什麼時候可以有一個比較進程的一個計劃因為剛剛有提到他說一個月後會有一個明確的報告是嗎"},{"start":475.803,"end":496.085,"text":"對我們的報告就是包括我們的動保檢查人員在執行這些司法警察的相關的權利的時候他必須要有的職能然後這些職能本身的這些基準跟他的後面的一個訓練計畫我們會先把它做一個完整的擬定了以後然後人員的部分我們會積極的跟人事總書這邊去了解"},{"start":496.414,"end":524.085,"text":"所以動保司回應我的就是一個月之後會有一個比較完成的一個計畫,初步的一個計畫。對,我會跟他們在討論,把一個很明確的這些我們做的進度來跟委員報告。好,那接著下來我要問一下就是關於所謂的認養的黑名單跟灰名單之類的問題。這個其實也是一個問題。我想現在只要有身分證字號或者是出生年月日,其實我們都可以在寵登的系統上面,其實就可以看得出來說這個人他有沒有違反動保法。"},{"start":524.565,"end":524.585,"text":"﹚檢討委員﹚"},{"start":554.104,"end":581.852,"text":"﹗"},{"start":582.222,"end":600.367,"text":"我想可能委員有一點誤會,就是我們跟動保跟我們的這個衛福部的家暴系統做連結,那這個連結可以因為有家暴跟有做動物虐待本身之間有它的關聯性,變成一個風險區,那現在目前提供這種送養單位去查的時候是公家單位可以查,"},{"start":601.127,"end":624.625,"text":"但是一般民眾是沒辦法查的是公家的送養單位是可以查但是民間是不可以查得到的因為他簽得到特別是在家暴的部分如果他犯有一些刑事的這些狀況的時候那變成是一個蠻嚴重的一個隱私的一個揭露那在這個部分其實為了保障他的隱私而且現在目前也沒有規定說我曾經有家暴我就不能認養"},{"start":625.606,"end":625.766,"text":"﹚指出一個市井"},{"start":643.168,"end":656.783,"text":"這個也是我們比較擔心因為我們知道有很多的所謂的情商有一些狀況的包含我們曾經講過的查查案其實就是恐怖情人所為嘛所以其實會有這樣子的傾向的人他極有可能就是"},{"start":657.644,"end":671.814,"text":"剛您說的就是高風險的族群那如果我的寵物或者是我的貓狗是被高風險的人去認養的話的確有可能產生這樣子的一個問題所以這部分我們可能也盡量能夠找出中間折衷的一個辦法"},{"start":673.094,"end":692.259,"text":"我想只是可以再揭露個人資訊,它的詳細的資訊的前提之下,用風險的等級去讓送飲單位去做查核。那這樣的話我想一方面保護了個人的隱私,一方面也確保我們的寵物給領養人的時候是一個受到照顧的一個對象。"},{"start":693.579,"end":703.754,"text":"是,好,那接下來就是也是在我上一次其實在總質詢我有特別提到的啦就是我們的入境檢疫所的一個放寬的一個這個方式啦,就是從"},{"start":704.616,"end":709.5,"text":"目前為止我那時候其實有特別講過我們家如果貓貓狗狗我們要出國的時候也是送旅館那旅館其實也有24小時我隨時只要跟他就是連線之後我可以看得到我自己的貓狗在寵物旅館的一個狀況那沒道理我們自己本身的檢驗所是做不到的"},{"start":732.717,"end":753.21,"text":"那這個部分呢,現在大概做到什麼樣的地步?我非常認同委員的說法,就是我們現在針對隔離檢疫的這個場合,特別在關心我們已經提供一些經費給他做一些基本的維修,讓他的這個7天的隔離的時間會比較好的一個舒適環境。那第二個部分是… 碳濕的次數可以增加嗎?對,然後…"},{"start":755.259,"end":781.865,"text":"那個監測的即時的監測我會要求他們就是說因為現在每一個龍都有監視器然後我給他一個特定的帳號密碼他就在他隔離期間他隨時可以看而不是說現在目前你打電話來我在提供我覺得是被動的服務我希望說做一個主動的服務好像貓狗旅館這個我想我們盡快會去實施然後第三個部分是探視的部分那探視的部分大概現在北部的在觀影的部分是可以有預約的"},{"start":782.825,"end":807.629,"text":"那南部是中興大學跟平科大本身的授意願,他是因為他教學意願,他本身是沒有辦法接受預約的部分。但這個部分我想我們會再跟他協調,因為我想自己的寵物到了一個陌生的環境之下,可能會有一些恐慌。多讓事主去探視,我覺得這是必要的啦。所以我會朝這個方向去努力,然後看不到的時候用監視器來看,大概用這樣的一個方式來處理。"},{"start":808.049,"end":833.926,"text":"因為我們知道其實小港機場的入境的這個隔離檢驗所他們是必須要寵物的主人到當地就是到檢驗所裡面我還是要透過鏡頭才能看得到我是沒有辦法直接跟自己的寵物接觸的這個部分我覺得是有一點稍微比較冰冷一點這個部分可以稍微再改我了解整個的過程我覺得有些東西是太有需要可以再精進的一個地方我一定會去朝這個方向來做"},{"start":835.607,"end":849.723,"text":"接下來當然還有這個多元寵物分類分級的管理的制度了,因為現在其實不管在夜市也好,夾娃娃店也好,其實我們都會看得到類似就是多元不同的寵物已經不再只是貓狗而已了。"},{"start":850.303,"end":850.323,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":868.677,"end":883.695,"text":"﹗"},{"start":883.695,"end":906.032,"text":"﹗"},{"start":906.292,"end":934.43,"text":"我跟委員說明就是去年8月1號我們農業部成立了一個動保師那其實動保師現在目前正在積極去做這樣子的一個工作特別是我們在犬隻的因為事主的責任是一個非常重要的所以我們已經訂定有關於事主本身的一個飼養責任的一個指引跟檢索這樣一方面有可以給事主去了解一方面也可以給動保檢查人員去了解然後第二個部分就是我們現在正在做動保法的修法"},{"start":934.87,"end":935.31,"text":"好謝謝國務委員謝謝卓院長"}]}}}}