{"id":154406,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154406","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1f04b26fe05fa65a8104fbe90a2e0e59fe28e669f0977b51132ad209ccdc2571744b430f128716a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:22:54 - 10:38:31","影片長度":"00:15:37","會議時間":"2024-07-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長就「有關健保合理支付、保障醫護人員收入、設置百億癌症基金及健康投資等事項」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-01","start_time":"2024-07-01T10:22:54+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-01T10:38:31+08:00","duration":937,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第23次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":23,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-23"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":451,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時23分）主席好，有請部長。"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長好。部長，賴總統提出健康臺灣的願景，特別提到癌症死亡率要在2030年的時候減少三分之一，所以具體的作法有三項：第一個就是提升早期癌症篩檢；第二個是聚焦基因檢測；還有成立百億癌症新藥基金。請教部長，現行的五癌篩檢中，是否在政策上也要達到提升早期癌症篩檢的要求，也就是在具成本效益、臨床上考量以及長期追蹤等等的考量下，可不可以將現行的五癌篩檢年齡層再往下降？因為我們可以看到剛剛那一頁，剛剛那一頁我們可以看到現在的肺癌、肝癌、大腸癌都是前三名標準化死亡率最高的。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員的指教，我想您關心這些癌症的狀況令人感佩。我想我30年來也都是照顧癌症的病人，在四癌篩檢的時候，那個時候的國健署實在推得很痛苦，我強迫臺大醫院一定要去成立一個單位，軟、硬體這樣來做，所以我們共同往這一方面來……"],["廖委員偉翔：是，謝謝部長，所以您覺得這個是不是應該可以？"],["邱部長泰源：如何讓它落實，當然也救了不少人的命跟他的家庭，這是一個德政，所以我們要繼續把它擴大，專家們也有這樣的討論，委員也很關心……"],["廖委員偉翔：是，所以部長您覺得可以把它的年齡層再往下降？"],["邱部長泰源：因為這個牽涉到成本效益各方面的問題，還有就是你今天要把它降低，是不是會增加醫師們的loading？因為我自己也常常在推……"],["廖委員偉翔：沒關係，部長，我只想要先問，你們是不是有目標要把它往下降？因為我剛剛也有提到有沒有要，就是要整體考量的話是否要思考成本效益……"],["邱部長泰源：如果有必要，當然我們都可以往下降、往上延伸，都是應該要……"],["廖委員偉翔：往上延伸，還要往上延伸？"],["邱部長泰源：只要對全民有幫助的，一定全力以赴，只是說這個可能都是要專家評估啦！"],["廖委員偉翔：好。部長，從這次最新的第五期的國家癌症防治計畫的數據可以發現，有幾個癌別的年齡層有降低的趨勢，尤其大腸癌的部分，不僅發生率的年齡降低，在死亡的年齡層也往下探，從這個圖表可以看到，從40歲以後整個曲線圖就直線上升。現行大腸癌的篩檢資格是50歲以上，兩年一次定量免疫法的糞便潛血檢查，是不是應該要往下調整到40歲？針對這個部分，我想要爭取請部長回去是不是可以研議，因為我覺得早期篩檢早期治療，可以增加存活率跟降低健保的支出，我覺得都可以有機會達到賴總統所謂健康臺灣癌症死亡率降低三分之一的目標，這部分可不可以請部長回去好好的研議一下？"],["邱部長泰源：跟委員報告，我當立委的時候，就是一直在爭取這個預算……"],["廖委員偉翔：太好了！"],["邱部長泰源：但是我要尊重專業的評估，不曉得署長有沒有要回應一下。"],["吳署長昭軍：謝謝委員的關心，這個部分我們目前都在跟專家討論當中，包括下修年齡或者是擴增項目，或者是其他的更好的工具來評估，或是更有效的介入方式，我們都在討論當中。"],["廖委員偉翔：還在討論喔？"],["吳署長昭軍：是。"],["邱部長泰源：但是這個一定是專家要去研議跟……"],["廖委員偉翔：既然在討論，那是不是要有一個時程？不然一直在討論，對不對？過去癌症篩檢的追陽率僅八成，陽性個案跑掉未能回診追蹤，然後在未來也變成晚期的癌症，所以如果能夠及早治療，手術就能切除的話，我想治療的成本費用也會遠低於標靶，重粒子質子等晚期治療，所以在健保總額裡面有一個癌症治療品質改善計畫，對不對？這個專款今年總共是5.17億，也就是用來提高這個五癌篩檢的後續追蹤管理，所以請教部長，我還是再講一件事，如果能把這五癌的篩檢率、陽追率提高，並且加強個案管理，一定能有效地降低癌症死亡率，所以我想要問的是，明年總額裡面這部分的專款是否要再提高？"],["邱部長泰源：我想這個一定要編，至於是不是要擴編或怎麼樣，可能要再研議，但是我覺得這個非常重要，因為我們把它篩檢出來，結果沒有來追蹤，這是很可惜的事情……"],["廖委員偉翔：對啊！"],["邱部長泰源：所以我們要從醫院方面跟基層診所方面，給他們最好的一個鼓勵，還有就是在軟體，譬如說在臺大醫院的電腦都會出現這個人的狀況，然後要提醒他要來做追蹤等等的，那是不是在基層診所這方面我們也可以來努力，我相信這樣的天羅地網，然後加上醫師再跟他多勸告，我相信一些可能不敢去面對，說實在的，人其實是脆弱的，有時候會不敢去面對真實，所以還是要勇敢地去面對、追蹤。"],["廖委員偉翔：我懂，其實我的訴求都蠻直白的。部長，美國癌症醫學會已經在2021年所公布的指引裡面建議將需要開始篩檢大腸癌的年齡從50歲下調到45歲，在我國大腸癌常年是癌症十大死因的前三名，並且國際研究也顯示，因為年輕人沒有定期篩檢的保護，所以從有症狀到就醫確診至少都要花半年以上的時間，相較於這些50歲以上有定期篩檢的族群，50歲以上第三、四期發現的比例大概占兩到三成，但是這些年輕的癌友檢查出第三、四期的比例高達五到六成，甚至都已經出現局部轉移或者是遠端轉移，所以我還是要再講，就是我希望是不是可以儘速研議這個部分。"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們儘速研議。"],["廖委員偉翔：可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：一定。"],["廖委員偉翔：那你們有沒有一個時程？3個月還是……"],["邱部長泰源：我相信3個月可以把研議要怎麼做的報告提供給委員。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。部長，今年以來流感疫情和腸病毒也都進到流行的週期，再加上新冠，所以各醫療院所都塞爆了，在上週健保門診急診診斷新冠陽性約9萬人次，預計高峰在7月中，每週確診的門診人數也可能突破10萬人。部長，按照這個趨勢來看，剛剛好像也有委員問到，第二季、第三季的點值可能會掉到0.9以下很多，今年會針對這個部分來做額外的補點值嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：現在醫界已經在反映了，所以我想我們會尊重醫界反映的權利，爭取相關預算來補助，跟去年一樣。"],["廖委員偉翔：OK，跟去年一樣。好，健保總額制度在醫療供給這個部分，我們也可以看到，之前有講到在公衛的部分是不是未來還是會持續的在總額之外找財源撥補到我們這個部分的缺口？"],["邱部長泰源：我想如果是突發性的，尤其是像這麼大的疫情，我也是很期待能夠爭取額外的經費來幫忙，這樣才能夠穩住我們原來需要醫療、治療的這些量能。"],["廖委員偉翔：是。部長，其實時間有限，雖然我還有準備其他的題目，但是我還是想要問一下，就是我們最近一直在討論這個健保點值的問題，其實在去年11月23號薛瑞元部長在這裡備詢的時候說，如果是0.92元的話，利潤還不到5%，甚至有一些虧損。其實上次我們的署長也有一直說現在要就各個部分去想，看屬於公衛的費用是不是用公務預算來撥補，有講了很多林林總總的細節，但是我還是想要請問一下，大家還是關心說你們有沒有評估過，你們現在的這些作法在撥補完之後會挪出多少的財源，以及有沒有可能浮動往哪些點值的目標去穩定，譬如說，在你們做了這些措施之後，你有辦法維穩在0.92、0.95元嗎？或者是你只能夠在0.9或是以下？"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝你給我機會，我具體回答，不要讓媒體又說我沒有具體回答。第一個，我覺得我們列出來的跟「健康台灣」列出來的幾個短、中、長程的，都是應該要去做，第一個，我們政府應該要補助36%的那個部分，以前有很多都把它塞進公務的補助或哪裡的補助，都把它塞進來，這樣會影響到那個36%其實是健保的費用，這個評估大概可以挪出一百三十幾億。接下來就是過去在各個部門裡面，我們這兩天會去開一個會來清理，把其實應該由公務預算支出的，就由公務預算來支出，不要把它塞進來健保。"],["廖委員偉翔：對。"],["邱部長泰源：這個挪出去的部分，當然我不可能一年全部挪出去，這樣恐怕會亂了陣腳，是一年、一年的挪出去，大概一年應該會有一百多億，三年應該有三百多億可以出去，如果這樣的話，這個就是都用在健保，你想想看，在我們去年補0.9的時候，那個時候我是當立委，我也拚得要死，臺大醫院的吳明賢院長跟我說幸好有補這個，他們第二季賺的錢就賺那個點值的補而已啦！所以醫療院所真的很難經營，大家不要以為他們很好賺，那個盈餘就是幸虧我們有補，它可能才能去做一些事情，所以我想反正要把這些挪出來。還有就是比較要去動到修法的部分，比如說富人是不是可以多出一點點，像補充保費，當然補充保費過去在立法院也是引發很多爭議，但是我是覺得健保的意義就是照顧弱勢，如果真的是比較可以挪出來的一些補充保費，我們對這個部分做處理的話，這是中程，那我們一步一步來，我相信如果第一步我們這樣做然後補充幾百億的話，大概點值應該是會到0.92、0.93，應該是沒有問題。"],["廖委員偉翔：0.92或0.93，那我想請問你，你在這一年內有辦法達成嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：而且這個是實際上在進行的。"],["廖委員偉翔：是，部長，請問你這個多久可以達成？我的意思是說，現在看起來醫療體系已經面臨崩潰，需要打強心針啦！不管長期是怎麼樣，但是短期好像需要強心針，那你在這一年內有辦法達到什麼樣的目標？就像你剛剛講的把這些挪一挪嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：目前我們一直在跟行政院溝通，那就是明年的預算，如果我們所提出的這些訴求都能夠達到的話，我相信明年開始的點值就會達到這樣的目標了。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我也建議你一個爭取的方向好不好？我覺得用特別條例、特別預算的方式，短期內先打一劑強心針，短期內可能是一到三年，就是三年以內，我是這樣建議，因為你們所謂的健保改革要很長的時間，你剛剛講的所有東西都要非常長的時間，我覺得這個東西已經緩不濟急，現在醫界也哀鴻遍野，所以我建議這個方向。","另外，其實年初本席提出「健全醫療發展特別條例」，在6月5號質詢你們的時候也有說這個新藥國際治療指引全給付的政策，你們也說這是國家應該做的方向，其實當天有很多醫師、病友團體打電話到我們的辦公室說這是造福國人醫療的好政策。所以今天要就百億癌症新藥基金和新藥國際治療指引全給付這個政策的關係向您請教，這個是我們整理出來的圖，你可以看到這幾個癌症，前面兩頁是肺癌，後面有乳癌、大腸癌等等，其實最後這一欄有這個給付與指引的差異，幾乎都是未給付，有很多是未給付的。但是沒關係，我今天是想要先問，上次有提到暫時性給付，今年總額也有匡列二十幾億，加上原本的新藥專款大概四十幾億，總共六十幾億，我想要請問，在百億癌症新藥基金成立以後，原本總額中的暫時性給付跟新藥專款，甚至是罕病專款，當然它已經超過一百五十幾億了，它是會繼續留在總額內，還是你會把它撥到百億癌症新藥基金裡面？或是只有暫時性給付過去，或是未來能進入基金的候選藥物是新藥還是限於癌症新藥？"],["邱部長泰源：大概百億基金應該現在的訴求是希望讓民眾多一點救命的機會，所以那個比較療效還是要再確認等等，也就是說，對於今年二十幾億那個部分，我們明年會把它用公務預算擴充到60億，到第三年應該可以到100億。至於罕病這個部分應該有的經費，我們覺得甚至都要加強。"],["廖委員偉翔：要再加強，但是它們兩個不會衝突？"],["邱部長泰源：不會去衝突，本來已經有合乎適應症的癌症治療，那個也是健保已經在給付了。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝！"],["邱部長泰源：好，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝廖偉翔委員的發言。","接下來請蘇清泉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":118,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-23","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","涂權吉","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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\"text\": \"所以我們要從醫院方面跟基層診所方面給他們最好的一個鼓勵那因為有時候還有就是在軟體比如說在臺大醫院的電腦我們都會出現這個人的狀況然後要提醒他要來做等等的那是不是基層方面我們也可以在基層診所也可以來努力這個方面我相信這樣的天羅地網\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 327.973, \"end\": 328.053, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 328.053, \"end\": 328.113, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 328.113, \"end\": 328.313, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 328.313, \"end\": 328.854, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"醫\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 328.854, \"end\": 329.074, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 329.074, \"end\": 329.254, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 329.254, \"end\": 329.554, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 329.554, \"end\": 329.834, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 329.834, \"end\": 330.655, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"診\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 330.655, \"end\": 330.815, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": 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\"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 903.111, \"end\": 903.591, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 903.591, \"end\": 903.731, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 903.731, \"end\": 904.351, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 904.351, \"end\": 904.451, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 904.451, \"end\": 904.611, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 904.611, \"end\": 905.151, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 905.151, \"end\": 905.272, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 905.272, \"end\": 908.132, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 908.132, \"end\": 908.413, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 908.413, \"end\": 908.573, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 908.573, \"end\": 908.733, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 908.733, \"end\": 908.973, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 908.973, \"end\": 909.133, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 909.133, \"end\": 909.393, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 909.393, \"end\": 909.533, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 909.533, \"end\": 909.633, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 909.633, \"end\": 909.853, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 909.853, \"end\": 910.193, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 910.193, \"end\": 910.713, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"充\", \"start\": 910.713, \"end\": 910.853, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 910.853, \"end\": 910.993, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 910.993, \"end\": 911.013, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 912.734, \"end\": 913.314, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"廖\", \"start\": 913.314, \"end\": 913.494, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"翔\", \"start\": 913.494, \"end\": 913.514, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,013 --> 00:00:30,446\n主席好有請我們部長請邱部長委員好部長好部長那個賴總統提出這個健康台灣的願景然後抱歉特別提到癌症死亡率要在2030年的時候\n\n2\n00:00:34,966 --> 00:00:50,122\n2030年的時候減少三分之一所以具體的做法有三項第一個就是提升早期癌症篩檢第二個是聚焦基因檢測還有成立百億癌症型藥基金那請教部長\n\n3\n00:00:51,223 --> 00:01:12,820\n現行的五癌篩檢中是否在政策上也要達到提升早期癌症篩檢的要求也就是在據成本效益、臨床上考量等等的長期追蹤的考量下可不可以將現行的五癌篩檢年齡層再往下降因為我們可以看到剛剛那一頁我們可以看到現在這個\n\n4\n00:01:14,441 --> 00:01:36,388\n肺癌、肝癌、大腸癌都是前三名的標準化死亡率最高的。對。好,謝謝委員和指教。我想您的關心這些癌症的狀況令人感佩。那我想我30年來也都是照顧癌症的病人。那在四癌篩檢的時候,那個時候的國健實在推得很痛苦。\n\n5\n00:01:37,128 --> 00:01:55,710\n我強迫臺大醫院一定要去成立一個單位軟硬體來做所以我們共同往這些方面當然也救了不少人的命跟他的家庭所以這是一個很得正的所以我們要繼續把它擴大\n\n6\n00:01:58,293 --> 00:02:14,366\n臺灣也有這樣的專家們也有這樣的討論那委員也很關心是所以部長您覺得可以把年齡層下降那個我們因為這牽涉到成本效益各方面的問題還有就是說你今天要要把它降低是不是會增加到\n\n7\n00:02:15,447 --> 00:02:37,534\n醫師們的loading因為我自己也常常在推部長我只想要先問你們是不是有目標要把它往下降因為我剛剛也有提到有沒有要考量整體考量如果有必要當然我們都可以往下降往上延伸都是應該要往上延伸對全民只要對全民有幫助的一定潛力已富只是說這個可能都是要專家評估啦\n\n8\n00:02:37,654 --> 00:02:57,841\n好部長從這次最新的這個第5期的國家癌症防治計畫裡面的數據可以看到有幾個癌別的年齡層有發現有降低的趨勢尤其這個大腸癌的部分不僅年齡發生率降低在死亡的這個年齡層也往下探那從這個圖表可以來看到40歲從40歲以後整個曲線圖就直線上升\n\n9\n00:03:01,182 --> 00:03:13,814\n那所以這代表現行的大腸癌的篩檢資格50歲以上現在是兩年一次的這個定量免疫法的糞便前血檢查那是不是應該要往下調整到40歲\n\n10\n00:03:15,814 --> 00:03:16,915\n我當立委的時候就是一直在爭取這個的預算\n\n11\n00:03:40,834 --> 00:03:46,587\n太好了但是就是說我要尊重那個專業的評估嘛不曉得署長有沒有要回應一下\n\n12\n00:03:48,359 --> 00:04:11,131\n謝謝委員的關心這個部分我們目前都在跟專家討論當中那包括是下修或者是項目或者是其他的更好的攻擊來評估更有效的介入方式我們都在討論當中還在討論喔但是這個一定是重要的討論那是不是要有一個時程不然一直在討論對不對過去癌症的篩檢的追陽率僅八成喔\n\n13\n00:04:12,712 --> 00:04:40,550\n養性割胺跑掉未能回診追蹤然後在未來也變成晚期的癌症所以如果能夠及早治療手術就能切除的話我想這個成本費用也會遠低於標靶啦重粒子直指等晚期治療所以在健保裡面總而裡面有一個癌症治療品質改善計畫對不對那這個專款今年共總共是5.17億那也就是用來提高這個五癌篩檢的後續追蹤管理\n\n14\n00:04:41,391 --> 00:04:43,052\n目前還沒有用目前變得5.17還沒有用還過用所以明年還是會變\n\n15\n00:05:11,175 --> 00:05:27,513\n我想這個一定要編,那是不是要擴編或怎麼樣可能要再演繹,但是我覺得這個非常重要,因為我們把它篩檢出來結果沒有來追蹤,這是很可惜的事情。\n\n16\n00:05:27,973 --> 00:05:51,566\n所以我們要從醫院方面跟基層診所方面給他們最好的一個鼓勵那因為有時候還有就是在軟體比如說在臺大醫院的電腦我們都會出現這個人的狀況然後要提醒他要來做等等的那是不是基層方面我們也可以在基層診所也可以來努力這個方面我相信這樣的天羅地網\n\n17\n00:05:52,586 --> 00:06:06,722\n然後加上醫師跟他再多勸告我相信我們一些可能不敢去面對說實在的人心是脆弱的有時候不敢去面對是真實的所以還是要勇敢的去面對\n\n18\n00:06:08,244 --> 00:06:34,641\n所以我其實訴求都蠻直白的就是說部長美國癌症醫學會已經在這2021年公布的指引建議需要開始篩檢大腸癌的年齡從50歲下調到45歲那我國大部分的大腸癌常年是癌症十大死因的前三名那並且國際研究也顯示因為年輕人是沒有定期的篩檢的保護所以從有這個症狀到\n\n19\n00:06:37,663 --> 00:06:37,783\n好。好。\n\n20\n00:07:06,426 --> 00:07:09,727\n我相信三個月可以把研議要怎麼做提供給委員好那再來就是一樣喔這個\n\n21\n00:07:21,243 --> 00:07:40,588\n部長今年以來流感疫情和腸病毒也都進到這個流行的週期那再加上新冠所以整個各醫療院所也都塞爆上週的健保門診急診這個診斷新冠陽性約9萬人次預計高峰在7月中那每週的這個確診\n\n22\n00:07:42,268 --> 00:08:10,470\n的門診也可能突破10萬人那部長按照這個趨勢來看其實剛剛好像也有委員有問到這第二季第三季的點值可能會掉到0.9以下很多這個今年會針對這個部分來做額外的補點值嗎?我想現在11屆已經在反映了所以我想我們會尊重11屆的反映權力來爭取相關的預算來補助跟去年一樣\n\n23\n00:08:11,670 --> 00:08:31,046\nOK跟去年一樣好那健保總額制度在這個醫療供給我想這個部分喔我們也可以看到最近在公衛之前是有講到說在這公衛的部分是不是未來還是會持續的在總額之外找這個財源的撥補到我們的這個部分的缺口我想\n\n24\n00:08:35,422 --> 00:08:35,442\n是﹖\n\n25\n00:08:53,971 --> 00:09:09,236\n好部長我最後因為其實時間有限了我還有準備其他的題目但是我還是想問一下就是其實我們上上在最近在討論這個健保點值的問題喔那其實在去年的11月23號薛議員部長在這裡也說備詢的時候說0.92元的話利潤是不到5%甚至有一些虧損\n\n26\n00:09:15,638 --> 00:09:44,706\n那其實上次我們的署長也有一直說現在要用各個部分去想說屬於公衛的費用是不是用公務預算來撥補那有講了很多零零總總的一些細節但是我還是想要請問一下大家還是關心說那你們有沒有評估過你們現在的這些做法撥補完之後會挪出多少的財源然後以及有沒有可能浮動往哪些點子的目標去穩定比如說到底\n\n27\n00:09:45,186 --> 00:10:06,839\n你們做了這些措施之後,到底你有辦法維穩在0.92、0.95嗎?或者是你只能夠在0.9或是以下?好,謝謝你給我機會齁,我具體回答齁,不要媒體又說我沒有具體回答齁第一個,我覺得我們列出來的,跟健康台灣列出來的一個幾個短中長程的\n\n28\n00:10:08,154 --> 00:10:29,523\n多數應該要去做第一個政府要補助0.36%的部分以前有很多都把他塞進公務的補助或補助哪裡都把他塞進來這會影響到那個36%其實是健保的費用這個大概可以平估到挪出一百三十幾億\n\n29\n00:10:31,104 --> 00:10:48,353\n那接下來就是過去在很多很多即使在各個部門裡面我們這兩天會計開個會來清理其實是應該由公務預算來支出的就由公務預算來支出不要把它塞進來健保\n\n30\n00:10:49,554 --> 00:11:04,115\n對這個挪出去的一個部分當然我不可能一年全部挪出去這樣恐怕會亂的陣腳一年一年的挪出去大概也會挪了應該一年應該會有100多億三年應該有300多億可以出去\n\n31\n00:11:04,696 --> 00:11:20,585\n那這樣的話這個就是都是用在健保如果這些你想想看我們去年補0.9的時候那個我們我當立委我也拚得要死那個連醫院連基層臺大醫院的吳明祥院長跟我講說喔好幾天有報這個\n\n32\n00:11:21,886 --> 00:11:39,517\n他們第二季賺的錢就賺那個點子的補而已,所以醫療院所真的很難經營,大家不要以為他們很好賺,引以就是我們那個幸福有補,他可能他可以做一些事情,所以我想那個\n\n33\n00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:53,512\n反正把這些挪出來還有就是說比較要去動到修法的比如說我們是不是婦人可以多出一點點像那個\n\n34\n00:11:57,815 --> 00:12:13,142\n補充保惠這個處理當然補充保惠過去在立法院也是爭爭議議但是我是覺得我們盡量健保的意義就是照顧弱勢就是說我們如果真的比較好比較能夠\n\n35\n00:12:15,824 --> 00:12:28,556\n就是比較可以挪出來的一些補充保衛我們這個部分做處理的話這是忠誠啦那我們一步一步的來我相信如果第一步我們這樣做的補充幾百億的話大概\n\n36\n00:12:29,831 --> 00:12:52,765\n點子應該是會到0.923應該是沒有問題0.92或0.93那我想請問你這一年內有辦法達成嗎而且這個是實際上在進行喔是那部長請問你這個多久可以達成因為我的意思是說現在看起來醫療體系已經面臨崩潰那需要強新增啦不管你長期怎麼樣但是短期好像需要強新增那你有沒有辦法說\n\n37\n00:12:58,132 --> 00:13:10,489\n現在目前一直在跟行政院溝通那就是明年的預算如果這些我們所提出的訴求都能夠達到的話我相信明年開始的點子就會達到這樣的目標了\n\n38\n00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:39,289\n部長我覺得我也建議你一個爭取的方向好不好我覺得用特別條例特別預算的方式短期內先打一機強心針短期內可能是一到三年三年以內我建議因為你們的所謂健保改革的時間很長你剛剛所有東西都非常的長那我覺得這個東西已經緩不濟急那現在這個我想醫界也哀鴻遍野了所以我建議這個方向那另外其實我年初本席在這個本席在提出這個健全醫療特別發展條例的時候其實在6月5號的質詢也有說\n\n39\n00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:41,490\n新藥國際醫療指引全體負荷政策\n\n40\n00:13:58,174 --> 00:14:20,840\n就這個百億癌症新藥基金和這個新藥國際指引全給付的關係向您請教其實這個是我們整理出來的圖你可以看到這是幾個癌症包含就是前面兩頁前面兩頁是我們的肺癌後面有這個乳癌、大腸癌等等其實後面有這個給付與指引的差異幾乎都是為給付很多是為給付的那但是沒關係我今天是想要先問\n\n41\n00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:44,586\n上次有提到這個暫時性給付那今年總額也匡列20幾億加上原本的新藥專款大概40幾億總共60幾億那我想要請問百億癌症新藥基金成立以後原本總額中的暫時性給付跟新藥專款甚至是罕病專款當然它已經超過150幾億了它是會繼續留在總額內呢還是你會把它撥到百億癌症新藥基金裡面\n\n42\n00:14:45,765 --> 00:15:11,013\n或是只有暫時性給付過去或是未來能進入基金的這個候選的藥物是新藥還是限於癌症新藥?大概百億基金應該現在的訴求是希望讓民眾多一點救命的機會所以那個比較療效還要再確認啊等等也就是說今年20幾億那個部分我們明年會把它用公務預算擴充到60那\n\n43\n00:15:12,734 --> 00:15:13,514\n好謝謝廖偉翔\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11013\t30446\t主席好 有請我們部長請邱部長委員好 部長好部長 那個賴總統提出這個健康台灣的願景然後 抱歉特別提到癌症死亡率要在2030年的時候\n34966\t50122\t2030年的時候減少三分之一所以具體的做法有三項第一個就是提升早期癌症篩檢第二個是聚焦基因檢測還有成立百億癌症型藥基金那請教部長\n51223\t72820\t現行的五癌篩檢中是否在政策上也要達到提升早期癌症篩檢的要求也就是在據成本效益、臨床上考量等等的長期追蹤的考量下可不可以將現行的五癌篩檢年齡層再往下降因為我們可以看到剛剛那一頁我們可以看到現在這個\n74441\t96388\t肺癌、肝癌、大腸癌都是前三名的標準化死亡率最高的。對。好,謝謝委員和指教。我想您的關心這些癌症的狀況令人感佩。那我想我30年來也都是照顧癌症的病人。那在四癌篩檢的時候,那個時候的國健實在推得很痛苦。\n97128\t115710\t我強迫臺大醫院一定要去成立一個單位軟硬體來做所以我們共同往這些方面當然也救了不少人的命跟他的家庭所以這是一個很得正的所以我們要繼續把它擴大\n118293\t134366\t臺灣也有這樣的專家們也有這樣的討論那委員也很關心是所以部長您覺得可以把年齡層下降那個我們因為這牽涉到成本效益各方面的問題還有就是說你今天要要把它降低是不是會增加到\n135447\t157534\t醫師們的loading因為我自己也常常在推部長我只想要先問你們是不是有目標要把它往下降因為我剛剛也有提到有沒有要考量整體考量如果有必要當然我們都可以往下降往上延伸都是應該要往上延伸對全民只要對全民有幫助的一定潛力已富只是說這個可能都是要專家評估啦\n157654\t177841\t好部長從這次最新的這個第5期的國家癌症防治計畫裡面的數據可以看到有幾個癌別的年齡層有發現有降低的趨勢尤其這個大腸癌的部分不僅年齡發生率降低在死亡的這個年齡層也往下探那從這個圖表可以來看到40歲從40歲以後整個曲線圖就直線上升\n181182\t193814\t那所以這代表現行的大腸癌的篩檢資格50歲以上現在是兩年一次的這個定量免疫法的糞便前血檢查那是不是應該要往下調整到40歲\n195814\t196915\t我當立委的時候就是一直在爭取這個的預算\n220834\t226587\t太好了但是就是說我要尊重那個專業的評估嘛不曉得署長有沒有要回應一下\n228359\t251131\t謝謝委員的關心這個部分我們目前都在跟專家討論當中那包括是下修或者是項目或者是其他的更好的攻擊來評估更有效的介入方式我們都在討論當中還在討論喔但是這個一定是重要的討論那是不是要有一個時程不然一直在討論對不對過去癌症的篩檢的追陽率僅八成喔\n252712\t280550\t養性割胺跑掉未能回診追蹤然後在未來也變成晚期的癌症所以如果能夠及早治療手術就能切除的話我想這個成本費用也會遠低於標靶啦重粒子直指等晚期治療所以在健保裡面總而裡面有一個癌症治療品質改善計畫對不對那這個專款今年共總共是5.17億那也就是用來提高這個五癌篩檢的後續追蹤管理\n281391\t283052\t目前還沒有用目前變得5.17還沒有用還過用所以明年還是會變\n311175\t327513\t我想這個一定要編,那是不是要擴編或怎麼樣可能要再演繹,但是我覺得這個非常重要,因為我們把它篩檢出來結果沒有來追蹤,這是很可惜的事情。\n327973\t351566\t所以我們要從醫院方面跟基層診所方面給他們最好的一個鼓勵那因為有時候還有就是在軟體比如說在臺大醫院的電腦我們都會出現這個人的狀況然後要提醒他要來做等等的那是不是基層方面我們也可以在基層診所也可以來努力這個方面我相信這樣的天羅地網\n352586\t366722\t然後加上醫師跟他再多勸告我相信我們一些可能不敢去面對說實在的人心是脆弱的有時候不敢去面對是真實的所以還是要勇敢的去面對\n368244\t394641\t所以我其實訴求都蠻直白的就是說部長美國癌症醫學會已經在這2021年公布的指引建議需要開始篩檢大腸癌的年齡從50歲下調到45歲那我國大部分的大腸癌常年是癌症十大死因的前三名那並且國際研究也顯示因為年輕人是沒有定期的篩檢的保護所以從有這個症狀到\n397663\t397783\t好。好。\n426426\t429727\t我相信三個月可以把研議要怎麼做提供給委員好那再來就是一樣喔這個\n441243\t460588\t部長今年以來流感疫情和腸病毒也都進到這個流行的週期那再加上新冠所以整個各醫療院所也都塞爆上週的健保門診急診這個診斷新冠陽性約9萬人次預計高峰在7月中那每週的這個確診\n462268\t490470\t的門診也可能突破10萬人那部長按照這個趨勢來看其實剛剛好像也有委員有問到這第二季第三季的點值可能會掉到0.9以下很多這個今年會針對這個部分來做額外的補點值嗎?我想現在11屆已經在反映了所以我想我們會尊重11屆的反映權力來爭取相關的預算來補助跟去年一樣\n491670\t511046\tOK 跟去年一樣好那健保總額制度在這個醫療供給我想這個部分喔我們也可以看到最近在公衛之前是有講到說在這公衛的部分是不是未來還是會持續的在總額之外找這個財源的撥補到我們的這個部分的缺口我想\n515422\t515442\t是﹖\n533971\t549236\t好部長我最後因為其實時間有限了我還有準備其他的題目但是我還是想問一下就是其實我們上上在最近在討論這個健保點值的問題喔那其實在去年的11月23號薛議員部長在這裡也說備詢的時候說0.92元的話利潤是不到5%甚至有一些虧損\n555638\t584706\t那其實上次我們的署長也有一直說現在要用各個部分去想說屬於公衛的費用是不是用公務預算來撥補那有講了很多零零總總的一些細節但是我還是想要請問一下大家還是關心說那你們有沒有評估過你們現在的這些做法撥補完之後會挪出多少的財源然後以及有沒有可能浮動往哪些點子的目標去穩定比如說到底\n585186\t606839\t你們做了這些措施之後,到底你有辦法維穩在0.92、0.95嗎?或者是你只能夠在0.9或是以下?好,謝謝你給我機會齁,我具體回答齁,不要媒體又說我沒有具體回答齁第一個,我覺得我們列出來的,跟健康台灣列出來的一個幾個短中長程的\n608154\t629523\t多數應該要去做第一個政府要補助0.36%的部分以前有很多都把他塞進公務的補助或補助哪裡都把他塞進來這會影響到那個36%其實是健保的費用這個大概可以平估到挪出一百三十幾億\n631104\t648353\t那接下來就是過去在很多 很多 即使在各個部門裡面我們這兩天會計開個會來清理 其實是應該由公務預算來支出的就由公務預算來支出 不要把它塞進來健保\n649554\t664115\t對 這個挪出去的一個部分當然我不可能一年全部挪出去這樣恐怕會亂的陣腳一年一年的挪出去大概也會挪了應該一年應該會有100多億三年應該有300多億可以出去\n664696\t680585\t那這樣的話這個就是都是用在健保如果這些你想想看我們去年補0.9的時候那個我們我當立委我也拚得要死那個連醫院連基層臺大醫院的吳明祥院長跟我講說喔好幾天有報這個\n681886\t699517\t他們第二季賺的錢就賺那個點子的補而已,所以醫療院所真的很難經營,大家不要以為他們很好賺,引以就是我們那個幸福有補,他可能他可以做一些事情,所以我想那個\n703040\t713512\t反正把這些挪出來還有就是說比較要去動到修法的比如說我們是不是婦人可以多出一點點像那個\n717815\t733142\t補充保惠這個處理當然補充保惠過去在立法院也是爭爭議議但是我是覺得我們盡量健保的意義就是照顧弱勢就是說我們如果真的比較好比較能夠\n735824\t748556\t就是比較可以挪出來的一些補充保衛我們這個部分做處理的話這是忠誠啦那我們一步一步的來我相信如果第一步我們這樣做的補充幾百億的話大概\n749831\t772765\t點子應該是會到0.923應該是沒有問題0.92或0.93那我想請問你這一年內有辦法達成嗎而且這個是實際上在進行喔是那部長請問你這個多久可以達成因為我的意思是說現在看起來醫療體系已經面臨崩潰那需要強新增啦不管你長期怎麼樣但是短期好像需要強新增那你有沒有辦法說\n778132\t790489\t現在目前一直在跟行政院溝通那就是明年的預算如果這些我們所提出的訴求都能夠達到的話我相信明年開始的點子就會達到這樣的目標了\n791030\t819289\t部長我覺得我也建議你一個爭取的方向好不好我覺得用特別條例特別預算的方式短期內先打一機強心針短期內可能是一到三年三年以內我建議因為你們的所謂健保改革的時間很長你剛剛所有東西都非常的長那我覺得這個東西已經緩不濟急那現在這個我想醫界也哀鴻遍野了所以我建議這個方向那另外其實我年初本席在這個本席在提出這個健全醫療特別發展條例的時候其實在6月5號的質詢也有說\n821110\t821490\t新藥國際醫療指引全體負荷政策\n838174\t860840\t就這個百億癌症新藥基金和這個新藥國際指引全給付的關係向您請教其實這個是我們整理出來的圖你可以看到這是幾個癌症包含就是前面兩頁前面兩頁是我們的肺癌後面有這個乳癌、大腸癌等等其實後面有這個給付與指引的差異幾乎都是為給付很多是為給付的那但是沒關係我今天是想要先問\n862399\t884586\t上次有提到這個暫時性給付那今年總額也匡列20幾億加上原本的新藥專款大概40幾億總共60幾億那我想要請問百億癌症新藥基金成立以後原本總額中的暫時性給付跟新藥專款甚至是罕病專款當然它已經超過150幾億了它是會繼續留在總額內呢還是你會把它撥到百億癌症新藥基金裡面\n885765\t911013\t或是只有暫時性給付過去或是未來能進入基金的這個候選的藥物是新藥還是限於癌症新藥?大概百億基金應該現在的訴求是希望讓民眾多一點救命的機會所以那個比較療效還要再確認啊等等也就是說今年20幾億那個部分我們明年會把它用公務預算擴充到60那\n912734\t913514\t好 謝謝廖偉翔\n","txt":"主席好 有請我們部長請邱部長委員好 部長好部長 那個賴總統提出這個健康台灣的願景然後 抱歉特別提到癌症死亡率要在2030年的時候\n2030年的時候減少三分之一所以具體的做法有三項第一個就是提升早期癌症篩檢第二個是聚焦基因檢測還有成立百億癌症型藥基金那請教部長\n現行的五癌篩檢中是否在政策上也要達到提升早期癌症篩檢的要求也就是在據成本效益、臨床上考量等等的長期追蹤的考量下可不可以將現行的五癌篩檢年齡層再往下降因為我們可以看到剛剛那一頁我們可以看到現在這個\n肺癌、肝癌、大腸癌都是前三名的標準化死亡率最高的。對。好,謝謝委員和指教。我想您的關心這些癌症的狀況令人感佩。那我想我30年來也都是照顧癌症的病人。那在四癌篩檢的時候,那個時候的國健實在推得很痛苦。\n我強迫臺大醫院一定要去成立一個單位軟硬體來做所以我們共同往這些方面當然也救了不少人的命跟他的家庭所以這是一個很得正的所以我們要繼續把它擴大\n臺灣也有這樣的專家們也有這樣的討論那委員也很關心是所以部長您覺得可以把年齡層下降那個我們因為這牽涉到成本效益各方面的問題還有就是說你今天要要把它降低是不是會增加到\n醫師們的loading因為我自己也常常在推部長我只想要先問你們是不是有目標要把它往下降因為我剛剛也有提到有沒有要考量整體考量如果有必要當然我們都可以往下降往上延伸都是應該要往上延伸對全民只要對全民有幫助的一定潛力已富只是說這個可能都是要專家評估啦\n好部長從這次最新的這個第5期的國家癌症防治計畫裡面的數據可以看到有幾個癌別的年齡層有發現有降低的趨勢尤其這個大腸癌的部分不僅年齡發生率降低在死亡的這個年齡層也往下探那從這個圖表可以來看到40歲從40歲以後整個曲線圖就直線上升\n那所以這代表現行的大腸癌的篩檢資格50歲以上現在是兩年一次的這個定量免疫法的糞便前血檢查那是不是應該要往下調整到40歲\n我當立委的時候就是一直在爭取這個的預算\n太好了但是就是說我要尊重那個專業的評估嘛不曉得署長有沒有要回應一下\n謝謝委員的關心這個部分我們目前都在跟專家討論當中那包括是下修或者是項目或者是其他的更好的攻擊來評估更有效的介入方式我們都在討論當中還在討論喔但是這個一定是重要的討論那是不是要有一個時程不然一直在討論對不對過去癌症的篩檢的追陽率僅八成喔\n養性割胺跑掉未能回診追蹤然後在未來也變成晚期的癌症所以如果能夠及早治療手術就能切除的話我想這個成本費用也會遠低於標靶啦重粒子直指等晚期治療所以在健保裡面總而裡面有一個癌症治療品質改善計畫對不對那這個專款今年共總共是5.17億那也就是用來提高這個五癌篩檢的後續追蹤管理\n目前還沒有用目前變得5.17還沒有用還過用所以明年還是會變\n我想這個一定要編,那是不是要擴編或怎麼樣可能要再演繹,但是我覺得這個非常重要,因為我們把它篩檢出來結果沒有來追蹤,這是很可惜的事情。\n所以我們要從醫院方面跟基層診所方面給他們最好的一個鼓勵那因為有時候還有就是在軟體比如說在臺大醫院的電腦我們都會出現這個人的狀況然後要提醒他要來做等等的那是不是基層方面我們也可以在基層診所也可以來努力這個方面我相信這樣的天羅地網\n然後加上醫師跟他再多勸告我相信我們一些可能不敢去面對說實在的人心是脆弱的有時候不敢去面對是真實的所以還是要勇敢的去面對\n所以我其實訴求都蠻直白的就是說部長美國癌症醫學會已經在這2021年公布的指引建議需要開始篩檢大腸癌的年齡從50歲下調到45歲那我國大部分的大腸癌常年是癌症十大死因的前三名那並且國際研究也顯示因為年輕人是沒有定期的篩檢的保護所以從有這個症狀到\n好。好。\n我相信三個月可以把研議要怎麼做提供給委員好那再來就是一樣喔這個\n部長今年以來流感疫情和腸病毒也都進到這個流行的週期那再加上新冠所以整個各醫療院所也都塞爆上週的健保門診急診這個診斷新冠陽性約9萬人次預計高峰在7月中那每週的這個確診\n的門診也可能突破10萬人那部長按照這個趨勢來看其實剛剛好像也有委員有問到這第二季第三季的點值可能會掉到0.9以下很多這個今年會針對這個部分來做額外的補點值嗎?我想現在11屆已經在反映了所以我想我們會尊重11屆的反映權力來爭取相關的預算來補助跟去年一樣\nOK 跟去年一樣好那健保總額制度在這個醫療供給我想這個部分喔我們也可以看到最近在公衛之前是有講到說在這公衛的部分是不是未來還是會持續的在總額之外找這個財源的撥補到我們的這個部分的缺口我想\n是﹖\n好部長我最後因為其實時間有限了我還有準備其他的題目但是我還是想問一下就是其實我們上上在最近在討論這個健保點值的問題喔那其實在去年的11月23號薛議員部長在這裡也說備詢的時候說0.92元的話利潤是不到5%甚至有一些虧損\n那其實上次我們的署長也有一直說現在要用各個部分去想說屬於公衛的費用是不是用公務預算來撥補那有講了很多零零總總的一些細節但是我還是想要請問一下大家還是關心說那你們有沒有評估過你們現在的這些做法撥補完之後會挪出多少的財源然後以及有沒有可能浮動往哪些點子的目標去穩定比如說到底\n你們做了這些措施之後,到底你有辦法維穩在0.92、0.95嗎?或者是你只能夠在0.9或是以下?好,謝謝你給我機會齁,我具體回答齁,不要媒體又說我沒有具體回答齁第一個,我覺得我們列出來的,跟健康台灣列出來的一個幾個短中長程的\n多數應該要去做第一個政府要補助0.36%的部分以前有很多都把他塞進公務的補助或補助哪裡都把他塞進來這會影響到那個36%其實是健保的費用這個大概可以平估到挪出一百三十幾億\n那接下來就是過去在很多 很多 即使在各個部門裡面我們這兩天會計開個會來清理 其實是應該由公務預算來支出的就由公務預算來支出 不要把它塞進來健保\n對 這個挪出去的一個部分當然我不可能一年全部挪出去這樣恐怕會亂的陣腳一年一年的挪出去大概也會挪了應該一年應該會有100多億三年應該有300多億可以出去\n那這樣的話這個就是都是用在健保如果這些你想想看我們去年補0.9的時候那個我們我當立委我也拚得要死那個連醫院連基層臺大醫院的吳明祥院長跟我講說喔好幾天有報這個\n他們第二季賺的錢就賺那個點子的補而已,所以醫療院所真的很難經營,大家不要以為他們很好賺,引以就是我們那個幸福有補,他可能他可以做一些事情,所以我想那個\n反正把這些挪出來還有就是說比較要去動到修法的比如說我們是不是婦人可以多出一點點像那個\n補充保惠這個處理當然補充保惠過去在立法院也是爭爭議議但是我是覺得我們盡量健保的意義就是照顧弱勢就是說我們如果真的比較好比較能夠\n就是比較可以挪出來的一些補充保衛我們這個部分做處理的話這是忠誠啦那我們一步一步的來我相信如果第一步我們這樣做的補充幾百億的話大概\n點子應該是會到0.923應該是沒有問題0.92或0.93那我想請問你這一年內有辦法達成嗎而且這個是實際上在進行喔是那部長請問你這個多久可以達成因為我的意思是說現在看起來醫療體系已經面臨崩潰那需要強新增啦不管你長期怎麼樣但是短期好像需要強新增那你有沒有辦法說\n現在目前一直在跟行政院溝通那就是明年的預算如果這些我們所提出的訴求都能夠達到的話我相信明年開始的點子就會達到這樣的目標了\n部長我覺得我也建議你一個爭取的方向好不好我覺得用特別條例特別預算的方式短期內先打一機強心針短期內可能是一到三年三年以內我建議因為你們的所謂健保改革的時間很長你剛剛所有東西都非常的長那我覺得這個東西已經緩不濟急那現在這個我想醫界也哀鴻遍野了所以我建議這個方向那另外其實我年初本席在這個本席在提出這個健全醫療特別發展條例的時候其實在6月5號的質詢也有說\n新藥國際醫療指引全體負荷政策\n就這個百億癌症新藥基金和這個新藥國際指引全給付的關係向您請教其實這個是我們整理出來的圖你可以看到這是幾個癌症包含就是前面兩頁前面兩頁是我們的肺癌後面有這個乳癌、大腸癌等等其實後面有這個給付與指引的差異幾乎都是為給付很多是為給付的那但是沒關係我今天是想要先問\n上次有提到這個暫時性給付那今年總額也匡列20幾億加上原本的新藥專款大概40幾億總共60幾億那我想要請問百億癌症新藥基金成立以後原本總額中的暫時性給付跟新藥專款甚至是罕病專款當然它已經超過150幾億了它是會繼續留在總額內呢還是你會把它撥到百億癌症新藥基金裡面\n或是只有暫時性給付過去或是未來能進入基金的這個候選的藥物是新藥還是限於癌症新藥?大概百億基金應該現在的訴求是希望讓民眾多一點救命的機會所以那個比較療效還要再確認啊等等也就是說今年20幾億那個部分我們明年會把它用公務預算擴充到60那\n好 謝謝廖偉翔\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.013 --> 00:30.446\n主席好有請我們部長請邱部長委員好部長好部長那個賴總統提出這個健康台灣的願景然後抱歉特別提到癌症死亡率要在2030年的時候\n\n00:34.966 --> 00:50.122\n2030年的時候減少三分之一所以具體的做法有三項第一個就是提升早期癌症篩檢第二個是聚焦基因檢測還有成立百億癌症型藥基金那請教部長\n\n00:51.223 --> 01:12.820\n現行的五癌篩檢中是否在政策上也要達到提升早期癌症篩檢的要求也就是在據成本效益、臨床上考量等等的長期追蹤的考量下可不可以將現行的五癌篩檢年齡層再往下降因為我們可以看到剛剛那一頁我們可以看到現在這個\n\n01:14.441 --> 01:36.388\n肺癌、肝癌、大腸癌都是前三名的標準化死亡率最高的。對。好,謝謝委員和指教。我想您的關心這些癌症的狀況令人感佩。那我想我30年來也都是照顧癌症的病人。那在四癌篩檢的時候,那個時候的國健實在推得很痛苦。\n\n01:37.128 --> 01:55.710\n我強迫臺大醫院一定要去成立一個單位軟硬體來做所以我們共同往這些方面當然也救了不少人的命跟他的家庭所以這是一個很得正的所以我們要繼續把它擴大\n\n01:58.293 --> 02:14.366\n臺灣也有這樣的專家們也有這樣的討論那委員也很關心是所以部長您覺得可以把年齡層下降那個我們因為這牽涉到成本效益各方面的問題還有就是說你今天要要把它降低是不是會增加到\n\n02:15.447 --> 02:37.534\n醫師們的loading因為我自己也常常在推部長我只想要先問你們是不是有目標要把它往下降因為我剛剛也有提到有沒有要考量整體考量如果有必要當然我們都可以往下降往上延伸都是應該要往上延伸對全民只要對全民有幫助的一定潛力已富只是說這個可能都是要專家評估啦\n\n02:37.654 --> 02:57.841\n好部長從這次最新的這個第5期的國家癌症防治計畫裡面的數據可以看到有幾個癌別的年齡層有發現有降低的趨勢尤其這個大腸癌的部分不僅年齡發生率降低在死亡的這個年齡層也往下探那從這個圖表可以來看到40歲從40歲以後整個曲線圖就直線上升\n\n03:01.182 --> 03:13.814\n那所以這代表現行的大腸癌的篩檢資格50歲以上現在是兩年一次的這個定量免疫法的糞便前血檢查那是不是應該要往下調整到40歲\n\n03:15.814 --> 03:16.915\n我當立委的時候就是一直在爭取這個的預算\n\n03:40.834 --> 03:46.587\n太好了但是就是說我要尊重那個專業的評估嘛不曉得署長有沒有要回應一下\n\n03:48.359 --> 04:11.131\n謝謝委員的關心這個部分我們目前都在跟專家討論當中那包括是下修或者是項目或者是其他的更好的攻擊來評估更有效的介入方式我們都在討論當中還在討論喔但是這個一定是重要的討論那是不是要有一個時程不然一直在討論對不對過去癌症的篩檢的追陽率僅八成喔\n\n04:12.712 --> 04:40.550\n養性割胺跑掉未能回診追蹤然後在未來也變成晚期的癌症所以如果能夠及早治療手術就能切除的話我想這個成本費用也會遠低於標靶啦重粒子直指等晚期治療所以在健保裡面總而裡面有一個癌症治療品質改善計畫對不對那這個專款今年共總共是5.17億那也就是用來提高這個五癌篩檢的後續追蹤管理\n\n04:41.391 --> 04:43.052\n目前還沒有用目前變得5.17還沒有用還過用所以明年還是會變\n\n05:11.175 --> 05:27.513\n我想這個一定要編,那是不是要擴編或怎麼樣可能要再演繹,但是我覺得這個非常重要,因為我們把它篩檢出來結果沒有來追蹤,這是很可惜的事情。\n\n05:27.973 --> 05:51.566\n所以我們要從醫院方面跟基層診所方面給他們最好的一個鼓勵那因為有時候還有就是在軟體比如說在臺大醫院的電腦我們都會出現這個人的狀況然後要提醒他要來做等等的那是不是基層方面我們也可以在基層診所也可以來努力這個方面我相信這樣的天羅地網\n\n05:52.586 --> 06:06.722\n然後加上醫師跟他再多勸告我相信我們一些可能不敢去面對說實在的人心是脆弱的有時候不敢去面對是真實的所以還是要勇敢的去面對\n\n06:08.244 --> 06:34.641\n所以我其實訴求都蠻直白的就是說部長美國癌症醫學會已經在這2021年公布的指引建議需要開始篩檢大腸癌的年齡從50歲下調到45歲那我國大部分的大腸癌常年是癌症十大死因的前三名那並且國際研究也顯示因為年輕人是沒有定期的篩檢的保護所以從有這個症狀到\n\n06:37.663 --> 06:37.783\n好。好。\n\n07:06.426 --> 07:09.727\n我相信三個月可以把研議要怎麼做提供給委員好那再來就是一樣喔這個\n\n07:21.243 --> 07:40.588\n部長今年以來流感疫情和腸病毒也都進到這個流行的週期那再加上新冠所以整個各醫療院所也都塞爆上週的健保門診急診這個診斷新冠陽性約9萬人次預計高峰在7月中那每週的這個確診\n\n07:42.268 --> 08:10.470\n的門診也可能突破10萬人那部長按照這個趨勢來看其實剛剛好像也有委員有問到這第二季第三季的點值可能會掉到0.9以下很多這個今年會針對這個部分來做額外的補點值嗎?我想現在11屆已經在反映了所以我想我們會尊重11屆的反映權力來爭取相關的預算來補助跟去年一樣\n\n08:11.670 --> 08:31.046\nOK跟去年一樣好那健保總額制度在這個醫療供給我想這個部分喔我們也可以看到最近在公衛之前是有講到說在這公衛的部分是不是未來還是會持續的在總額之外找這個財源的撥補到我們的這個部分的缺口我想\n\n08:35.422 --> 08:35.442\n是﹖\n\n08:53.971 --> 09:09.236\n好部長我最後因為其實時間有限了我還有準備其他的題目但是我還是想問一下就是其實我們上上在最近在討論這個健保點值的問題喔那其實在去年的11月23號薛議員部長在這裡也說備詢的時候說0.92元的話利潤是不到5%甚至有一些虧損\n\n09:15.638 --> 09:44.706\n那其實上次我們的署長也有一直說現在要用各個部分去想說屬於公衛的費用是不是用公務預算來撥補那有講了很多零零總總的一些細節但是我還是想要請問一下大家還是關心說那你們有沒有評估過你們現在的這些做法撥補完之後會挪出多少的財源然後以及有沒有可能浮動往哪些點子的目標去穩定比如說到底\n\n09:45.186 --> 10:06.839\n你們做了這些措施之後,到底你有辦法維穩在0.92、0.95嗎?或者是你只能夠在0.9或是以下?好,謝謝你給我機會齁,我具體回答齁,不要媒體又說我沒有具體回答齁第一個,我覺得我們列出來的,跟健康台灣列出來的一個幾個短中長程的\n\n10:08.154 --> 10:29.523\n多數應該要去做第一個政府要補助0.36%的部分以前有很多都把他塞進公務的補助或補助哪裡都把他塞進來這會影響到那個36%其實是健保的費用這個大概可以平估到挪出一百三十幾億\n\n10:31.104 --> 10:48.353\n那接下來就是過去在很多很多即使在各個部門裡面我們這兩天會計開個會來清理其實是應該由公務預算來支出的就由公務預算來支出不要把它塞進來健保\n\n10:49.554 --> 11:04.115\n對這個挪出去的一個部分當然我不可能一年全部挪出去這樣恐怕會亂的陣腳一年一年的挪出去大概也會挪了應該一年應該會有100多億三年應該有300多億可以出去\n\n11:04.696 --> 11:20.585\n那這樣的話這個就是都是用在健保如果這些你想想看我們去年補0.9的時候那個我們我當立委我也拚得要死那個連醫院連基層臺大醫院的吳明祥院長跟我講說喔好幾天有報這個\n\n11:21.886 --> 11:39.517\n他們第二季賺的錢就賺那個點子的補而已,所以醫療院所真的很難經營,大家不要以為他們很好賺,引以就是我們那個幸福有補,他可能他可以做一些事情,所以我想那個\n\n11:43.040 --> 11:53.512\n反正把這些挪出來還有就是說比較要去動到修法的比如說我們是不是婦人可以多出一點點像那個\n\n11:57.815 --> 12:13.142\n補充保惠這個處理當然補充保惠過去在立法院也是爭爭議議但是我是覺得我們盡量健保的意義就是照顧弱勢就是說我們如果真的比較好比較能夠\n\n12:15.824 --> 12:28.556\n就是比較可以挪出來的一些補充保衛我們這個部分做處理的話這是忠誠啦那我們一步一步的來我相信如果第一步我們這樣做的補充幾百億的話大概\n\n12:29.831 --> 12:52.765\n點子應該是會到0.923應該是沒有問題0.92或0.93那我想請問你這一年內有辦法達成嗎而且這個是實際上在進行喔是那部長請問你這個多久可以達成因為我的意思是說現在看起來醫療體系已經面臨崩潰那需要強新增啦不管你長期怎麼樣但是短期好像需要強新增那你有沒有辦法說\n\n12:58.132 --> 13:10.489\n現在目前一直在跟行政院溝通那就是明年的預算如果這些我們所提出的訴求都能夠達到的話我相信明年開始的點子就會達到這樣的目標了\n\n13:11.030 --> 13:39.289\n部長我覺得我也建議你一個爭取的方向好不好我覺得用特別條例特別預算的方式短期內先打一機強心針短期內可能是一到三年三年以內我建議因為你們的所謂健保改革的時間很長你剛剛所有東西都非常的長那我覺得這個東西已經緩不濟急那現在這個我想醫界也哀鴻遍野了所以我建議這個方向那另外其實我年初本席在這個本席在提出這個健全醫療特別發展條例的時候其實在6月5號的質詢也有說\n\n13:41.110 --> 13:41.490\n新藥國際醫療指引全體負荷政策\n\n13:58.174 --> 14:20.840\n就這個百億癌症新藥基金和這個新藥國際指引全給付的關係向您請教其實這個是我們整理出來的圖你可以看到這是幾個癌症包含就是前面兩頁前面兩頁是我們的肺癌後面有這個乳癌、大腸癌等等其實後面有這個給付與指引的差異幾乎都是為給付很多是為給付的那但是沒關係我今天是想要先問\n\n14:22.399 --> 14:44.586\n上次有提到這個暫時性給付那今年總額也匡列20幾億加上原本的新藥專款大概40幾億總共60幾億那我想要請問百億癌症新藥基金成立以後原本總額中的暫時性給付跟新藥專款甚至是罕病專款當然它已經超過150幾億了它是會繼續留在總額內呢還是你會把它撥到百億癌症新藥基金裡面\n\n14:45.765 --> 15:11.013\n或是只有暫時性給付過去或是未來能進入基金的這個候選的藥物是新藥還是限於癌症新藥?大概百億基金應該現在的訴求是希望讓民眾多一點救命的機會所以那個比較療效還要再確認啊等等也就是說今年20幾億那個部分我們明年會把它用公務預算擴充到60那\n\n15:12.734 --> 15:13.514\n好謝謝廖偉翔\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.013,"end":30.446,"text":"主席好 有請我們部長請邱部長委員好 部長好部長 那個賴總統提出這個健康台灣的願景然後 抱歉特別提到癌症死亡率要在2030年的時候"},{"start":34.966,"end":50.122,"text":"2030年的時候減少三分之一所以具體的做法有三項第一個就是提升早期癌症篩檢第二個是聚焦基因檢測還有成立百億癌症型藥基金那請教部長"},{"start":51.223,"end":72.82,"text":"現行的五癌篩檢中是否在政策上也要達到提升早期癌症篩檢的要求也就是在據成本效益、臨床上考量等等的長期追蹤的考量下可不可以將現行的五癌篩檢年齡層再往下降因為我們可以看到剛剛那一頁我們可以看到現在這個"},{"start":74.441,"end":96.388,"text":"肺癌、肝癌、大腸癌都是前三名的標準化死亡率最高的。對。好,謝謝委員和指教。我想您的關心這些癌症的狀況令人感佩。那我想我30年來也都是照顧癌症的病人。那在四癌篩檢的時候,那個時候的國健實在推得很痛苦。"},{"start":97.128,"end":115.71,"text":"我強迫臺大醫院一定要去成立一個單位軟硬體來做所以我們共同往這些方面當然也救了不少人的命跟他的家庭所以這是一個很得正的所以我們要繼續把它擴大"},{"start":118.293,"end":134.366,"text":"臺灣也有這樣的專家們也有這樣的討論那委員也很關心是所以部長您覺得可以把年齡層下降那個我們因為這牽涉到成本效益各方面的問題還有就是說你今天要要把它降低是不是會增加到"},{"start":135.447,"end":157.534,"text":"醫師們的loading因為我自己也常常在推部長我只想要先問你們是不是有目標要把它往下降因為我剛剛也有提到有沒有要考量整體考量如果有必要當然我們都可以往下降往上延伸都是應該要往上延伸對全民只要對全民有幫助的一定潛力已富只是說這個可能都是要專家評估啦"},{"start":157.654,"end":177.841,"text":"好部長從這次最新的這個第5期的國家癌症防治計畫裡面的數據可以看到有幾個癌別的年齡層有發現有降低的趨勢尤其這個大腸癌的部分不僅年齡發生率降低在死亡的這個年齡層也往下探那從這個圖表可以來看到40歲從40歲以後整個曲線圖就直線上升"},{"start":181.182,"end":193.814,"text":"那所以這代表現行的大腸癌的篩檢資格50歲以上現在是兩年一次的這個定量免疫法的糞便前血檢查那是不是應該要往下調整到40歲"},{"start":195.814,"end":196.915,"text":"我當立委的時候就是一直在爭取這個的預算"},{"start":220.834,"end":226.587,"text":"太好了但是就是說我要尊重那個專業的評估嘛不曉得署長有沒有要回應一下"},{"start":228.359,"end":251.131,"text":"謝謝委員的關心這個部分我們目前都在跟專家討論當中那包括是下修或者是項目或者是其他的更好的攻擊來評估更有效的介入方式我們都在討論當中還在討論喔但是這個一定是重要的討論那是不是要有一個時程不然一直在討論對不對過去癌症的篩檢的追陽率僅八成喔"},{"start":252.712,"end":280.55,"text":"養性割胺跑掉未能回診追蹤然後在未來也變成晚期的癌症所以如果能夠及早治療手術就能切除的話我想這個成本費用也會遠低於標靶啦重粒子直指等晚期治療所以在健保裡面總而裡面有一個癌症治療品質改善計畫對不對那這個專款今年共總共是5.17億那也就是用來提高這個五癌篩檢的後續追蹤管理"},{"start":281.391,"end":283.052,"text":"目前還沒有用目前變得5.17還沒有用還過用所以明年還是會變"},{"start":311.175,"end":327.513,"text":"我想這個一定要編,那是不是要擴編或怎麼樣可能要再演繹,但是我覺得這個非常重要,因為我們把它篩檢出來結果沒有來追蹤,這是很可惜的事情。"},{"start":327.973,"end":351.566,"text":"所以我們要從醫院方面跟基層診所方面給他們最好的一個鼓勵那因為有時候還有就是在軟體比如說在臺大醫院的電腦我們都會出現這個人的狀況然後要提醒他要來做等等的那是不是基層方面我們也可以在基層診所也可以來努力這個方面我相信這樣的天羅地網"},{"start":352.586,"end":366.722,"text":"然後加上醫師跟他再多勸告我相信我們一些可能不敢去面對說實在的人心是脆弱的有時候不敢去面對是真實的所以還是要勇敢的去面對"},{"start":368.244,"end":394.641,"text":"所以我其實訴求都蠻直白的就是說部長美國癌症醫學會已經在這2021年公布的指引建議需要開始篩檢大腸癌的年齡從50歲下調到45歲那我國大部分的大腸癌常年是癌症十大死因的前三名那並且國際研究也顯示因為年輕人是沒有定期的篩檢的保護所以從有這個症狀到"},{"start":397.663,"end":397.783,"text":"好。好。"},{"start":426.426,"end":429.727,"text":"我相信三個月可以把研議要怎麼做提供給委員好那再來就是一樣喔這個"},{"start":441.243,"end":460.588,"text":"部長今年以來流感疫情和腸病毒也都進到這個流行的週期那再加上新冠所以整個各醫療院所也都塞爆上週的健保門診急診這個診斷新冠陽性約9萬人次預計高峰在7月中那每週的這個確診"},{"start":462.268,"end":490.47,"text":"的門診也可能突破10萬人那部長按照這個趨勢來看其實剛剛好像也有委員有問到這第二季第三季的點值可能會掉到0.9以下很多這個今年會針對這個部分來做額外的補點值嗎?我想現在11屆已經在反映了所以我想我們會尊重11屆的反映權力來爭取相關的預算來補助跟去年一樣"},{"start":491.67,"end":511.046,"text":"OK 跟去年一樣好那健保總額制度在這個醫療供給我想這個部分喔我們也可以看到最近在公衛之前是有講到說在這公衛的部分是不是未來還是會持續的在總額之外找這個財源的撥補到我們的這個部分的缺口我想"},{"start":515.422,"end":515.442,"text":"是﹖"},{"start":533.971,"end":549.236,"text":"好部長我最後因為其實時間有限了我還有準備其他的題目但是我還是想問一下就是其實我們上上在最近在討論這個健保點值的問題喔那其實在去年的11月23號薛議員部長在這裡也說備詢的時候說0.92元的話利潤是不到5%甚至有一些虧損"},{"start":555.638,"end":584.706,"text":"那其實上次我們的署長也有一直說現在要用各個部分去想說屬於公衛的費用是不是用公務預算來撥補那有講了很多零零總總的一些細節但是我還是想要請問一下大家還是關心說那你們有沒有評估過你們現在的這些做法撥補完之後會挪出多少的財源然後以及有沒有可能浮動往哪些點子的目標去穩定比如說到底"},{"start":585.186,"end":606.839,"text":"你們做了這些措施之後,到底你有辦法維穩在0.92、0.95嗎?或者是你只能夠在0.9或是以下?好,謝謝你給我機會齁,我具體回答齁,不要媒體又說我沒有具體回答齁第一個,我覺得我們列出來的,跟健康台灣列出來的一個幾個短中長程的"},{"start":608.154,"end":629.523,"text":"多數應該要去做第一個政府要補助0.36%的部分以前有很多都把他塞進公務的補助或補助哪裡都把他塞進來這會影響到那個36%其實是健保的費用這個大概可以平估到挪出一百三十幾億"},{"start":631.104,"end":648.353,"text":"那接下來就是過去在很多 很多 即使在各個部門裡面我們這兩天會計開個會來清理 其實是應該由公務預算來支出的就由公務預算來支出 不要把它塞進來健保"},{"start":649.554,"end":664.115,"text":"對 這個挪出去的一個部分當然我不可能一年全部挪出去這樣恐怕會亂的陣腳一年一年的挪出去大概也會挪了應該一年應該會有100多億三年應該有300多億可以出去"},{"start":664.696,"end":680.585,"text":"那這樣的話這個就是都是用在健保如果這些你想想看我們去年補0.9的時候那個我們我當立委我也拚得要死那個連醫院連基層臺大醫院的吳明祥院長跟我講說喔好幾天有報這個"},{"start":681.886,"end":699.517,"text":"他們第二季賺的錢就賺那個點子的補而已,所以醫療院所真的很難經營,大家不要以為他們很好賺,引以就是我們那個幸福有補,他可能他可以做一些事情,所以我想那個"},{"start":703.04,"end":713.512,"text":"反正把這些挪出來還有就是說比較要去動到修法的比如說我們是不是婦人可以多出一點點像那個"},{"start":717.815,"end":733.142,"text":"補充保惠這個處理當然補充保惠過去在立法院也是爭爭議議但是我是覺得我們盡量健保的意義就是照顧弱勢就是說我們如果真的比較好比較能夠"},{"start":735.824,"end":748.556,"text":"就是比較可以挪出來的一些補充保衛我們這個部分做處理的話這是忠誠啦那我們一步一步的來我相信如果第一步我們這樣做的補充幾百億的話大概"},{"start":749.831,"end":772.765,"text":"點子應該是會到0.923應該是沒有問題0.92或0.93那我想請問你這一年內有辦法達成嗎而且這個是實際上在進行喔是那部長請問你這個多久可以達成因為我的意思是說現在看起來醫療體系已經面臨崩潰那需要強新增啦不管你長期怎麼樣但是短期好像需要強新增那你有沒有辦法說"},{"start":778.132,"end":790.489,"text":"現在目前一直在跟行政院溝通那就是明年的預算如果這些我們所提出的訴求都能夠達到的話我相信明年開始的點子就會達到這樣的目標了"},{"start":791.03,"end":819.289,"text":"部長我覺得我也建議你一個爭取的方向好不好我覺得用特別條例特別預算的方式短期內先打一機強心針短期內可能是一到三年三年以內我建議因為你們的所謂健保改革的時間很長你剛剛所有東西都非常的長那我覺得這個東西已經緩不濟急那現在這個我想醫界也哀鴻遍野了所以我建議這個方向那另外其實我年初本席在這個本席在提出這個健全醫療特別發展條例的時候其實在6月5號的質詢也有說"},{"start":821.11,"end":821.49,"text":"新藥國際醫療指引全體負荷政策"},{"start":838.174,"end":860.84,"text":"就這個百億癌症新藥基金和這個新藥國際指引全給付的關係向您請教其實這個是我們整理出來的圖你可以看到這是幾個癌症包含就是前面兩頁前面兩頁是我們的肺癌後面有這個乳癌、大腸癌等等其實後面有這個給付與指引的差異幾乎都是為給付很多是為給付的那但是沒關係我今天是想要先問"},{"start":862.399,"end":884.586,"text":"上次有提到這個暫時性給付那今年總額也匡列20幾億加上原本的新藥專款大概40幾億總共60幾億那我想要請問百億癌症新藥基金成立以後原本總額中的暫時性給付跟新藥專款甚至是罕病專款當然它已經超過150幾億了它是會繼續留在總額內呢還是你會把它撥到百億癌症新藥基金裡面"},{"start":885.765,"end":911.013,"text":"或是只有暫時性給付過去或是未來能進入基金的這個候選的藥物是新藥還是限於癌症新藥?大概百億基金應該現在的訴求是希望讓民眾多一點救命的機會所以那個比較療效還要再確認啊等等也就是說今年20幾億那個部分我們明年會把它用公務預算擴充到60那"},{"start":912.734,"end":913.514,"text":"好 謝謝廖偉翔"}]}}}}