{"id":154421,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154421","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/67413232838a15477a2ed545a5ec4b4a2c12d918673f79f1571e0513cca39fd5b36af2056dcf8b7c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:17:50 - 09:33:50","影片長度":"00:16:00","會議時間":"2024-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-02","start_time":"2024-07-02T09:17:50+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-02T09:33:50+08:00","duration":960,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議","id":"院會-11-1-20","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":142,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時18分）謝謝主席，各位委員、各位官員，大家早。有請卓院長跟農業部陳部長。"],["主席：卓院長還有陳部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：張委員好。"],["張委員智倫：院長、部長早安。今天是我們經濟委員會的質詢，還是先跟院長、部長講辛苦了，最近質詢很多，也跟你們報告，最近國會改革已經三讀通過，行政院的覆議案在立法院大家的投票之下，覆議案也沒有通過，所以國會改革五法已經正式上路，最重要以及民眾注意關心的就是國會聽證權跟調查權，這也是本席非常在意的。","在過去我的選舉當中，本席是會計師，所以對很多民眾關心的一些議案非常在意，本席今天就要繼續來問。其實本席在3月的時候就有跟當時的代理部長陳部長討論過超思雞蛋的問題，超思這家公司大家知道資本額50萬，過去在112年的時候進口了八千多萬顆的巴西蛋，結果後來有五千多萬顆等著要報廢，那最近也報廢了嘛，對嗎？部長。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["張委員智倫：總共花了人民大概十億的納稅錢嗎？還是多少錢？"],["陳部長駿季：大概十億多一點。"],["張委員智倫：對，所以我的數學還不錯，花了十億的納稅錢，想不到我們在追查的時候，當時3月我在追查超思雞蛋的時候，發現超思不只在112年有進口八千多萬顆的巴西雞蛋，在111年也進口將近兩千五百萬顆的雞蛋，結果最近在很多立法院同仁的努力追緝之下，發現超思還有一個前身叫做亮采，進口了五百多萬顆雞蛋，所以我今天想要針對部長，也跟院長報告一下超思居然還有前傳。想要先請問一下部長，有一家公司叫做亮采，它居然有採購日本的雞蛋將近五百多萬顆，請問一下部長對於亮采這家公司有沒有做KYC的瞭解？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，亮采的五百多萬顆是在3月跟4月之間用合約的方式去購買的，後續4月以後的雞蛋是由亮采公司來進口，有一段時間；進口了以後，後續我們在相關經費提供的時候，是由超思它用委任的關係，由超思來領款。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長，所以我就是要跟部長、院長報告，我們可以看到這家亮采公司的資本額只有一百萬，然後我們去查一下它的負責人，它的負責人有用一家投資公司去投資，投資這家亮采生物科技的這家公司叫做辰澤企業有限公司，它的負責人姓王，我們去查了之後發現它背後是一家生技公司，做醫美的。請問一家做醫美的公司來進口日本雞蛋，部長、院長覺得合理嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：它如果合法地去申請，公司裡面有它可以營業的營業項目在裡面，那應該是一個公司法人的結構，不是它個人的問題。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝院長的回答，那部長你知道過去這個亮采公司有進口過日本雞蛋的經驗嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，過去的雞蛋大概都是由我們國內供應，在110年開始才有比較明顯的一個……因為疫情的關係、因為天候的關係而造成缺蛋，才有從包括美國、澳洲跟日本來進口……"],["張委員智倫：部長，我問你的就是亮采從日本進口的部分。我跟部長跟院長報告，其實亮采過去在111年前是沒有進口過日本蛋的經驗，所以這才是讓人民覺得很納悶的，為什麼一家一百萬資本額的公司可以進日本的雞蛋？本席還要請問一下一個大家最重視的問題，那時候亮采在進口雞蛋的時候，3、4月有進口一批，然後到最後在111年的8月也有進口一批，可是進口完了以後居然是超思付錢給它，它們兩個關係是什麼？為什麼它要幫它付這個錢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，相關這些亮采跟超思之間的商業關係，因為我們在行政調查的時候是有發現到一些疑慮必須澄清的，所以我們已經移送給檢調單位去查處。"],["張委員智倫：好，的確部長這個回答，其實本席已經有收到相關的消息，可是也要問一下農業部的一些官員，他們有說其實超思跟亮采中間有一個委託的委託書還是一個讓渡書，請問有這樣的事情嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：對，就是他們在付款的時候，有相關的一些委任的書狀在那邊，所以我們付款是針對委任的部分，然後開發票……誰開發票我們付給誰，但是後面的一些疑慮，我們已經請檢調單位在查清了。"],["張委員智倫：好，所以這就是本席要跟院長、部長講的，一家過去沒有進口日本蛋經驗的超思公司，委託一個過去沒有進口日本蛋的亮采公司，然後它們兩個中間還有錯綜複雜的關係，不管是畜產會過去一直以來跟農業部的溝通跟交涉都非常地困難，導致讓渡書的部分我相信也是很晚才提供給農業部看到。","我想要請教一下，亮采的部分其實當時是有跟畜產會簽約，所以它是用一個委託的方式，它除了進口日本雞蛋以外，它可以收取8%的手續費，那8%的手續費，其實它才收到兩百……它進口的雞蛋大概是五百多萬顆，總共的金額是三千七百多萬，可是它能收取8%手續費的時候，它只能收取兩百多萬的手續費，可是後來換到超思它在進口日本蛋的時候卻變成不是委託商的身分，它是用買賣斷的部分，結果後來政府的畜產會要求農業部做一個緊急的補貼，本來核定是1億7，最後實質補貼了八千九百多萬，我用計算機算了一下，它這個實支的差額補貼將近高達50%。我想要請教部長的是，有簽合約的只補貼手續費8%，即有簽合約的亮采補貼8%；沒有簽合約的超思，畜產會要求農業部補貼的實支差額將近達50%，請問這樣子合理嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，這之間可能有一些誤解，用合約的方式，照著合約走是8%的服務費；用買斷的方式，就是它負責從日本進口蛋，包括內陸的運費、包括裡面的關稅跟運輸費用，最後我們給它的就是已經到指定地點的一個價錢。所以不是直接用當地的價錢減掉我們付款的價錢，我想之間的資訊有點誤差。"],["張委員智倫：好，所以第一個，謝謝部長的解釋，我相信院長在旁邊聽，應該是覺得非常不能接受啦！我再請教一下，到最後畜產會有辦理111年進口雞蛋的查核報告，裡面特別提出，有很多委員也提出，針對雞蛋採購的部分，因為是緊急採購，所以可以不用採購法的條文，意思就是可以不用去三方比價。可是針對冷鏈倉儲租金跟運費的部分，這邊也有提出當時沒有依照採購法是有疏失的，有其他委員也說，既然超思進口日本蛋的時候都有疏失，那超思進口巴西蛋的時候，相關的冷鏈倉儲租金跟運費，你們已經準備好要收回50%的費用了嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明一下，在111年度的時候，我們是用例行的產銷調節計畫先給它，先有一個計畫在那邊，它沒有依照採購法的部分，依政府的規定要在50%以下，這個部分我們已經追繳，他們也繳回來了。至於112年的部分，我們是後面才提供一個補助，所以在審核計畫的時候，就已經把相關不符合政府採購法的部分都已經扣掉了，因此沒有所謂112年再追繳的問題。"],["張委員智倫：所以112年不會追繳？"],["陳部長駿季：不會，因為是我們後面才核定的。"],["張委員智倫：倉儲租金跟運費的部分？"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們後面核定的時候就有去檢視，不符合政府採構法的部分，我們的補助一定是50%以下。"],["張委員智倫：好。最後，我要跟院長及部長講，我們有去算過，亮采在進口日本蛋的時候，一顆大概是六塊多，快7塊；可是超思在進日本蛋的時候，一顆基本上是7塊以上，所以顧名思義，政府、畜產會採購的金額是越來越高，跟大家所想的不一樣。而且最重要的是，我們有去稍微算了一下，超思採購日本蛋，一顆將近10塊錢，我們有去查了日本當地的零售價，一顆才四點多塊錢，中間將近有6塊錢的價差。今天國會改革五法，是不是請院長跟部長回答一下，這樣到底有沒有圖利廠商的嫌疑？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，無論超思跟政府、亮采跟政府，或是超思跟亮采之間，一切的行為必須合法，而且依照合約來走，否則現在我們已經移送檢調單位在進行調查。這個事件讓我們引以為鑑，未來在從事任何……或許也包括這種緊急需要的情況底下，我們還是要慎選合作的對象，看看它是不是能夠如實地履行合約、有沒有這個能力，而且我們對於它是不是將合約又轉嫁出去的行為要做適當的限制，才能保障我們跟它之間直接合約關係的權利義務關係，我想這個給我們很大的啟示跟未來的學習。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝院長，每次質詢院長的時候，發現院長是一位非常nice的人。其實就是要跟部長跟院長講，超思雞蛋案花了人民很多的納稅錢，也花了很多立法委員去查核的時間。我們長期以來，因為農業部不知道是不是跟畜產會在溝通上有一些問題，所以很多時候我們立法委員去調資料都窒礙難行。因此我要拜託，我重新再講一次，就是超思在過去購買巴西蛋的時候，買了八千多萬顆，結果裡面有五千多萬顆是沒辦法用的，浪費人民的納稅錢將近10億，最近很多委員也在追，現在剩下來的這些雞蛋到底能不能食用，這也是一個問號。結果大家往前去追的時候，才發現111年超思還有去買日本雞蛋，它當時還是用買賣斷的情形，而112年它又變成貿易商，不僅可以收8%的手續費，還補貼巴西蛋非常多的金額，結果最後還追到超思還有一個前身，就是亮采，結果它在購買的時候，它相關的內容跟購買方式也讓大家沒有辦法接受，就是它根本沒有進口日本蛋的實績，所以我覺得這些種種……我希望超思跟巴西蛋、跟超思前傳（就是我們的日本蛋）能趕快落幕，不要花人民那麼多的納稅錢，又花很多委員質詢的時間，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經移送檢調，相信檢調單位應該很快就會去釐清。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長。接下來還剩一點時間，我們請經濟部郭部長，謝謝。"],["主席：郭部長請備詢。"],["張委員智倫：部長好。因為時間的關係，我第一次有機會跟你見面，想不到是在質詢臺上，我也是要跟你說：辛苦了！這個部長非常不容易做。其實我觀察部長一段時間了，部長從一開始說核能是大家可以討論的，如果民意、大家可以做一個統整的意見，其實你不排斥核電；可是後來我相信大家都有看到新聞，在你參加過幾次的餐會以後，大概有些震撼教育，所以你現在想法變了、改口了。我請教一下郭部長，你一開始應該是非常有風骨，想要好好來帶領臺灣的經濟，結果現在這個想法180度轉變，我想要請郭部長講一下你的心路歷程，可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們的電力政策應該是沒有改變，至於核能能不能夠討論，我想應該是可以討論的議題。未來核三要不要延役，這個問題我們尊重大院的決定，經濟部是執行單位，只要在法的框架之下，我們必須要依法行事，所以我想這個立法院能夠決定，就是我們做所有事情的依歸。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長。院長，部長這樣講，您的看法怎麼樣？如果大院認為核電要延役，您的看法是不是跟郭部長一樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我剛剛也表示過，現在依照核管法，時間已經過了5年的時間了，但是如果進行修法，修法會修成什麼狀況、條文怎麼樣，我們現在也不能夠預測。修法之後行政院是依法行政，但是我們也希望大家在討論的時候，關於核安的問題、核廢料的處理以及如何取得社會的共識，大家都能夠很理性地來討論。"],["張委員智倫：沒錯。時間的關係，我最後請教一下部長，因為大家都非常關心核安，可是也很怕臺灣跳電跟缺電，尤其我上次在總質詢的時候有詢問過，請問今年還會不會漲電價？請教部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們今年4月已經漲過11%。"],["張委員智倫：對，下半年還會不會漲電價？當然4月……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在電價審議委員會每年兩次的調整時間是固定的，但是我想……"],["張委員智倫：我想要請教院長跟部長的想法，你們支不支持下半年還漲電價？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會以民生的需求、物價的穩定，甚至能夠提供產業更多的保障……"],["張委員智倫：是不是也請部長回答？部長是很有想法的人，部長你覺得下半年有沒有需要漲電價？"],["郭部長智輝：電價不是我經濟部決定的，電價是由審議委員會做決定的，審議會裡面有學者、專家、民間的代表，由他們決定……"],["張委員智倫：好，我還是希望能苦民所苦，因為上半年已經漲過了，而且最近又是用電尖峰時段，是夏季用電時段，大家、民眾苦不堪言，物價都一直在漲，所以下半年拜託院長跟部長可以苦民所苦，可以凍漲電價，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員指教。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張委員，謝謝卓院長。","接下來我們請涂權吉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-20","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","羅明才","張智倫","涂權吉","沈發惠","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","謝龍介","謝衣鳯","林德福","吳秉叡","黃珊珊","丁學忠","呂玉玲","張宏陸","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","許智傑","林倩綺","葉元之"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-07-02"],"gazette_id":"1136401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136401_00004","1136401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第20次會議紀錄","content":"對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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{\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 234.49, \"end\": 234.71, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 234.71, \"end\": 234.87, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 234.87, \"end\": 234.991, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 234.991, \"end\": 235.331, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 235.331, \"end\": 236.531, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 236.531, \"end\": 236.631, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 236.631, \"end\": 236.911, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"雞\"}, {\"word\": \"蛋\", \"start\": 236.911, \"end\": 237.072, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 237.072, \"end\": 237.092, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 238.291, \"end\": 261.779, \"text\": \"我跟委員說明過去的雞蛋大概都是由我們國內供應那在111年開始才有比較明顯的一個因為疫情的關係因為天后的關係造成缺點才有從包括那個美國澳洲跟日本來進口部長我問你的就是日本這個量產進口那請問一下我跟這個部長跟院長報告其實量產過去他在111年\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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\"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 511.478, \"end\": 511.598, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 511.598, \"end\": 511.718, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 511.718, \"end\": 511.898, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 511.898, \"end\": 512.139, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 512.139, \"end\": 512.779, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"既\", \"start\": 512.779, \"end\": 512.919, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 512.919, \"end\": 514.48, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 514.48, \"end\": 514.7, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 514.7, \"end\": 515.0, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 515.0, \"end\": 515.18, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 515.18, \"end\": 515.32, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 515.32, \"end\": 515.48, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"蛋\", \"start\": 515.48, \"end\": 515.64, 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{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 538.695, \"end\": 538.816, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 538.816, \"end\": 539.016, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 539.016, \"end\": 539.196, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 539.196, \"end\": 539.356, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 539.356, \"end\": 539.436, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 539.436, \"end\": 539.716, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 539.716, \"end\": 539.856, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 539.856, \"end\": 539.996, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 539.996, \"end\": 540.817, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 540.817, \"end\": 540.937, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 540.937, \"end\": 541.537, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 541.537, \"end\": 541.758, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 541.758, \"end\": 541.858, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 541.858, \"end\": 541.998, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 541.998, \"end\": 542.218, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 542.218, \"end\": 542.538, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 542.538, \"end\": 542.978, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"繳\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 542.978, \"end\": 543.178, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 543.178, \"end\": 543.198, \"score\": 0.084}, {\"word\": \"繳\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 543.198, \"end\": 543.218, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}]}, {\"start\": 544.179, \"end\": 570.852, \"text\": \"那至於112年的部分我們是後面才提供一個補助所以在審核計劃的時候就已經把相關的不符合政府採購法的部分都已經扣掉了所以沒有所謂的說112年再追繳的一個問題所以112年不會追繳?不會因為是我們後面才核定的對我們後面核定的時候我們就有去檢視不符合政府採購法的部分我們的補助一定是50%以下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 544.179, \"end\": 544.419, 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\"end\": 923.786, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 923.786, \"end\": 923.886, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 923.886, \"end\": 923.986, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 923.986, \"end\": 924.086, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 924.086, \"end\": 924.306, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 924.306, \"end\": 924.486, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 924.486, \"end\": 924.626, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 924.626, \"end\": 924.746, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 924.746, \"end\": 924.866, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 924.866, \"end\": 924.926, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 924.926, \"end\": 925.026, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 925.026, \"end\": 925.086, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 925.086, \"end\": 925.166, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 925.166, \"end\": 925.186, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 926.254, \"end\": 926.274, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 956.249, \"end\": 956.37, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 956.37, \"end\": 956.43, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 956.43, \"end\": 956.55, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 956.55, \"end\": 956.63, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 956.63, \"end\": 956.65, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,523 --> 00:00:19,278\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是不是有請卓院長跟我們的陳部長農業部陳部長卓院長還有陳部長請備詢\n\n2\n00:00:33,241 --> 00:00:48,389\n院長、部長早安。今天是我們經濟委員會的質詢。還是先跟院長跟部長講,辛苦了。最近質詢很多。也跟你們報告,就是說最近國會改革已經三讀通過。\n\n3\n00:00:51,050 --> 00:00:51,070\n﹚張智倫﹚\n\n4\n00:01:16,821 --> 00:01:39,467\n那本席所以今天就要繼續來問其實本席在3月的時候就有跟當時的代理部長陳部長討論過超思雞蛋的問題這超思這家公司大家知道資本額50萬過去在112年的時候進口了8000多萬顆的巴西蛋結果後來有說5000多萬顆就是因為等著要報廢那最近也報廢了嘛對嗎部長是\n\n5\n00:01:40,467 --> 00:01:58,417\n那總共花了人民大概10億的納稅錢嗎?還是多少錢?大概10億多一點。對,所以我的數學還不錯,花了10億的納稅錢。那想不到我們在追查的時候,當時我在3月的時候追查超市雞蛋的時候,發現不只在超市在112年有進口巴西8000多萬克的雞蛋,\n\n6\n00:01:58,977 --> 00:02:27,471\n在111年的時候超司也將近進口了2500萬顆的雞蛋結果最近在很多立法院同仁的努力追緝之下結果發現結果現在超司他還有一個前身叫做亮采進口了500多萬顆的雞蛋所以我想要今天針對部長也跟院長報告一下超司居然還有錢賺那想要先請問一下這個部長這個有一家公司叫做亮采\n\n7\n00:02:28,371 --> 00:02:38,751\n他居然有採購日本的雞蛋將近500多萬顆。請問一下部長對於量產這家公司有沒有做KYC的了解?\n\n8\n00:02:39,911 --> 00:03:03,349\n我跟委員說明齁,亮彩的500多萬顆是在3月跟4月之間用合約的方式去購買的。那後續4月以後的一個雞蛋是由亮彩公司來進口,有一段時間。那進口了以後,後續在相關的那個經費,我們經費提供的時候是由超司,他用委任的關係由超司來領款。\n\n9\n00:03:04,158 --> 00:03:08,630\n好,謝謝部長。所以我就是要跟部長跟院長報告。我們可以看到我們的這家\n\n10\n00:03:10,014 --> 00:03:10,034\n議員﹚張智倫\n\n11\n00:03:39,643 --> 00:03:57,092\n那如果合法的去申請公司上裡面有他可以營業的營業項目在裡面那應該這是一個公司法人的結構不是他個人的問題好謝謝院長的回答那部長你知道過去這個亮彩公司他有進口過日本雞蛋的經驗嗎?\n\n12\n00:03:58,291 --> 00:04:21,779\n我跟委員說明過去的雞蛋大概都是由我們國內供應那在111年開始才有比較明顯的一個因為疫情的關係因為天后的關係造成缺點才有從包括那個美國澳洲跟日本來進口部長我問你的就是日本這個量產進口那請問一下我跟這個部長跟院長報告其實量產過去他在111年\n\n13\n00:04:23,539 --> 00:04:23,559\n﹚張智倫\n\n14\n00:04:43,266 --> 00:04:48,809\n我跟委員說明就是相關的這些亮彩跟超資之間的商業的關係因為我們在行政調查的時候是有發現到一些餘地必須澄清的所以我們已經移送給檢調單位去查處了\n\n15\n00:05:07,956 --> 00:05:27,036\n的確部長這個回答其實我本期已經有收到相關的消息那可是也要我問一下農業部的一些就是一些官員他們也說其實超市跟量產他們中間是有一個這個委託的委託書還是一個讓渡書吧請問有這樣的事情嗎\n\n16\n00:05:27,834 --> 00:05:43,489\n對就是他們在付款的時候有相關的一些委任的一個書狀在那邊所以我們付款是針對委任的部分然後開發票去提誰開發票我們付給誰但是後面的一些疑慮我們已經請檢調單位再查清了\n\n17\n00:05:44,116 --> 00:06:07,655\n所以這就是本席要跟院長跟部長講的一家過去沒有日本進口蛋經驗的超市公司委託一個過去沒有進口日本蛋的一個量產公司然後他們兩個中間還有錯綜複雜的關係那不管是續產會過去一直以來跟農業部的交通跟交涉都非常的困難導致這個量度書的部分我相信也是很晚才提供給農業會來看到\n\n18\n00:06:09,156 --> 00:06:22,582\n我想請教一下亮彩的部分其實當時是有跟這個續產會簽約所以他是用一個委託的方式他可以收取除了進口日本雞蛋以外他可以收取8%的手續費\n\n19\n00:06:24,042 --> 00:06:24,062\n﹚張智倫﹚\n\n20\n00:06:45,768 --> 00:07:08,403\n政府的續產會要求農業部做一個緊急的補貼補貼的本來核定是1億7最後實質補貼了8900多萬那我算一下齁我用計算機算了一下齁他這個實質的差額補貼將近高達50%那我想要請教部長的就是說有簽合約的只補貼手續費8%沒有簽合約的量產\n\n21\n00:07:11,986 --> 00:07:18,657\n有簽合約的量財補貼8%沒有簽合約的超市補貼緊急去產會要求農業部補貼的實質差額將近達50%請問這樣子合理嗎?\n\n22\n00:07:23,346 --> 00:07:48,874\n我跟委員說明這個之間可能有些誤解用合約的方式是照著合約走是8%的服務費那用買斷的方式就是說他負責從日本進口但包括內陸的運費包括裡面的關稅跟他運輸的費用那最後我們給他的就是已經到指定地點的時候的一個付錢所以不是直接用他當地的一個價錢減掉我們付款的價錢這個我想之間的資訊有點誤差\n\n23\n00:07:51,360 --> 00:08:12,007\n好,所以我要跟這個,所以第一個啊,我先謝謝部長的解釋啦,我相信院長在旁邊聽的應該是覺得非常不能接受啦。那我再請教一下,所以到最後,這個我們續產會有辦理這個111年進口雞蛋的一個查核報告,裡面特別有很多委員也提出了,特別提出了\n\n24\n00:08:12,628 --> 00:08:35,901\n就針對雞蛋採購的部分是因為緊急採購可以不用採購法的一個條文意思就是說可以不用去三方比價可是針對這個冷鏈倉儲的部分租金跟運費的部分這邊也有提出來說當時是沒有依照採購法是有疏失的那我們有其他委員也說既然超市進口日本蛋的時候\n\n25\n00:08:36,781 --> 00:09:03,218\n都有疏失那超失進口巴西蛋的時候相關的這個冷鏈倉儲租金跟運費你們已經準備好要收回50%的費用了嗎?跟委員說明一下就是在110年度的時候我們是用例行的產價調節計劃先給他計劃先有一個計劃在那邊那他根據他沒有依照採購法的部分依政府的規定要在50%以下那這個部分我們已經追繳他們也繳回來\n\n26\n00:09:04,179 --> 00:09:30,852\n那至於112年的部分我們是後面才提供一個補助所以在審核計劃的時候就已經把相關的不符合政府採購法的部分都已經扣掉了所以沒有所謂的說112年再追繳的一個問題所以112年不會追繳?不會因為是我們後面才核定的對我們後面核定的時候我們就有去檢視不符合政府採購法的部分我們的補助一定是50%以下\n\n27\n00:09:32,432 --> 00:09:59,064\n好,那最後我要跟院長跟部長講,我們有去算過啦,最後這個量彩喔,他在進口這個日本蛋的時候一顆大概是6塊多塊7塊,可是超市在進日本蛋的時候一顆基本上是7塊以上,所以顧名思義就是政府續產會他在採購的金額是越來越高,跟大家所想的不一樣,而且最重要我們有去稍微算了一下,這個\n\n28\n00:10:04,704 --> 00:10:17,979\n我們有去查了日本當地的這個零售價,一顆才4點多塊錢,中間將近有6塊錢的價差。是不是請這個院長跟部長,今天國會改革無法,請你回答一下,這樣到底有沒有圖利廠商的嫌疑?\n\n29\n00:10:19,141 --> 00:10:36,677\n好,跟委員報告,無論超私跟政府、量財跟政府或是超私量財之間,一切的行為必須合法而且依照合約來走,否則現在我們已經移送檢調單位在進行調查。那這個事件到讓我們引以為見,未來在從事任何\n\n30\n00:10:37,478 --> 00:10:59,356\n或許包括這種緊急需要的情況底下我們還是要慎選合作的對象看看他是不是能夠如實的履行合約有沒有這個能力而且我們對他是不是合約又轉嫁出去的這個行為要做適當的限制才能保障我們跟他之間直接合約關係的權利義務關係我想這個給我們很大的一個啟示跟未來的一個學習\n\n31\n00:11:00,077 --> 00:11:20,771\n好,謝謝院長。每次質詢院長的時候,我發現院長其實他是一個非常nice的人。其實就是要跟這個部長跟院長講,其實超失雞蛋案,其實花了大家人民很多的納稅錢,也花了很多立法委員去查核的這個時間。那我們長期以來,越農越富,不知道是不是跟續產會溝通上有一些問題。\n\n32\n00:11:21,812 --> 00:11:45,334\n所以很多時候我們立法委員去調資料的時候都自愛難行所以我要拜託我重新再講一次就是超私他在過去購買巴西蛋的時候他買了8000多萬顆結果裡面有5000多萬顆是沒辦法用的然後浪費人民納稅錢將近10億然後最近很多委員也在追現在剩下來這些雞蛋他到底能不能食用這也是一個問號\n\n33\n00:11:46,335 --> 00:12:03,308\n結果大家往前去追的時候才發現111年的時候超市還有去買日本雞蛋結果他當時還是有買賣斷的情形結果112年他又變成這個貿易商不僅可以收8%的手續費還補貼巴西蛋非常多的金額\n\n34\n00:12:03,948 --> 00:12:03,968\n﹚張智倫\n\n35\n00:12:20,529 --> 00:12:45,813\n我希望這個叫做超思這個巴西蛋跟超思錢鑽就是我們的日本蛋我希望趕快落幕不要讓花人民那麼多的納稅錢又花很多這個我們所有委員這個這個質詢的時間好嗎?好謝謝我跟你講我們已經送一送檢調我們相信檢調單位應該很快的會去釐清好那我們謝謝部長我們接下來剩一點時間我們是可以請經濟部的這個部長請郭部長謝謝\n\n36\n00:12:50,488 --> 00:12:50,630\n郭部長請備詢\n\n37\n00:13:00,447 --> 00:13:23,455\n部長好,因為時間的關係我第一次有機會跟您見面,那想不到在質詢臺上,那我也是要跟你講說辛苦了,這部長非常不容易做。其實我觀察部長一段時間,部長從一開始是說這個核能是可以大家可以討論的,如果民意可以來去做一個大家可以做一個統整的一個意見,其實你不排斥核電。\n\n38\n00:13:24,295 --> 00:13:24,955\n報告委員我們的這個電力的政策應該是沒有改變\n\n39\n00:13:52,421 --> 00:13:57,374\n那至於說這個可能能不能夠討論我想應該是可以討論的議題啦\n\n40\n00:13:59,639 --> 00:14:26,142\n那這個未來是不是這個河山要不要研議,這個問題我們尊重大院的這個決定。那經濟部是執行單位,那只要在法的框架之下,那我們必須要依法行事。所以我想這個立法院能夠決定,就是我們做的事情的依法。謝謝,謝謝郭部長。部長,那個院長部長這樣講,您的看法是怎樣?如果大院,如果認為核電要研議,您的看法是不是跟郭部長一樣?\n\n41\n00:14:26,874 --> 00:14:48,401\n其實我剛剛也表示過現在依照核管法時間已經過了5年的時間了但是如果進行修法那修法會修成什麼狀況條文怎麼樣我們現在也不能夠預測那修法之後行政院是有依法行政但是我們也希望大家在討論的時候核安的問題核廢料的處理以及如何取得社會的共識大家都能夠很理性的來討論\n\n42\n00:14:49,341 --> 00:14:59,996\n沒錯,那我實際的關係最後請教一下部長,因為大家都非常關心額外,可是也很怕台灣跳電跟缺電。那而且尤其我上次在總質詢的時候我有請問,請問今年會不會還會漲電價?\n\n43\n00:15:04,353 --> 00:15:25,186\n我們今年4月已經漲過11%。對,那下半年還會不會漲電價?那現在電價審議委員會每年兩次的調整時間是固定的。我想要請教院長跟部長的想法,你們支不支持下半年還漲電價?我會以民生的需求、物價的穩定,甚至能夠提供產業更多的保障。那我是請部長回答,部長應該有一些,部長是很有想法的人。部長你覺得下半年有沒有需要漲電價?\n\n44\n00:15:26,254 --> 00:15:26,274\n謝謝張委員\n\n45\n00:15:56,249 --> 00:15:56,650\n謝謝卓院長。接下來我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12523\t19278\t好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是不是有請卓院長跟我們的陳部長農業部陳部長卓院長還有陳部長請備詢\n33241\t48389\t院長、部長早安。今天是我們經濟委員會的質詢。還是先跟院長跟部長講,辛苦了。最近質詢很多。也跟你們報告,就是說最近國會改革已經三讀通過。\n51050\t51070\t﹚張智倫﹚\n76821\t99467\t那本席所以今天就要繼續來問其實本席在3月的時候就有跟當時的代理部長陳部長討論過超思雞蛋的問題這超思這家公司大家知道資本額50萬過去在112年的時候進口了8000多萬顆的巴西蛋結果後來有說5000多萬顆就是因為等著要報廢那最近也報廢了嘛對嗎部長是\n100467\t118417\t那總共花了人民大概10億的納稅錢嗎?還是多少錢?大概10億多一點。對,所以我的數學還不錯,花了10億的納稅錢。那想不到我們在追查的時候,當時我在3月的時候追查超市雞蛋的時候,發現不只在超市在112年有進口巴西8000多萬克的雞蛋,\n118977\t147471\t在111年的時候超司也將近進口了2500萬顆的雞蛋結果最近在很多立法院同仁的努力追緝之下結果發現結果現在超司他還有一個前身叫做亮采進口了500多萬顆的雞蛋所以我想要今天針對部長也跟院長報告一下超司居然還有錢賺那想要先請問一下這個部長這個有一家公司叫做亮采\n148371\t158751\t他居然有採購日本的雞蛋將近500多萬顆。請問一下部長對於量產這家公司有沒有做KYC的了解?\n159911\t183349\t我跟委員說明齁,亮彩的500多萬顆是在3月跟4月之間用合約的方式去購買的。那後續4月以後的一個雞蛋是由亮彩公司來進口,有一段時間。那進口了以後,後續在相關的那個經費,我們經費提供的時候是由超司,他用委任的關係由超司來領款。\n184158\t188630\t好,謝謝部長。所以我就是要跟部長跟院長報告。我們可以看到我們的這家\n190014\t190034\t議員﹚張智倫\n219643\t237092\t那如果合法的去申請公司上裡面有他可以營業的營業項目在裡面那應該這是一個公司法人的結構不是他個人的問題好謝謝院長的回答那部長你知道過去這個亮彩公司他有進口過日本雞蛋的經驗嗎?\n238291\t261779\t我跟委員說明過去的雞蛋大概都是由我們國內供應那在111年開始才有比較明顯的一個因為疫情的關係因為天后的關係造成缺點才有從包括那個美國澳洲跟日本來進口部長我問你的就是日本這個量產進口那請問一下我跟這個部長跟院長報告其實量產過去他在111年\n263539\t263559\t﹚張智倫\n283266\t288809\t我跟委員說明就是相關的這些亮彩跟超資之間的商業的關係因為我們在行政調查的時候是有發現到一些餘地必須澄清的所以我們已經移送給檢調單位去查處了\n307956\t327036\t的確部長這個回答其實我本期已經有收到相關的消息那可是也要我問一下農業部的一些就是一些官員他們也說其實超市跟量產他們中間是有一個這個委託的委託書還是一個讓渡書吧請問有這樣的事情嗎\n327834\t343489\t對就是他們在付款的時候有相關的一些委任的一個書狀在那邊所以我們付款是針對委任的部分然後開發票去提誰開發票我們付給誰但是後面的一些疑慮我們已經請檢調單位再查清了\n344116\t367655\t所以這就是本席要跟院長跟部長講的一家過去沒有日本進口蛋經驗的超市公司委託一個過去沒有進口日本蛋的一個量產公司然後他們兩個中間還有錯綜複雜的關係那不管是續產會過去一直以來跟農業部的交通跟交涉都非常的困難導致這個量度書的部分我相信也是很晚才提供給農業會來看到\n369156\t382582\t我想請教一下亮彩的部分其實當時是有跟這個續產會簽約所以他是用一個委託的方式他可以收取除了進口日本雞蛋以外他可以收取8%的手續費\n384042\t384062\t﹚張智倫﹚\n405768\t428403\t政府的續產會要求農業部做一個緊急的補貼補貼的本來核定是1億7最後實質補貼了8900多萬那我算一下齁我用計算機算了一下齁他這個實質的差額補貼將近高達50%那我想要請教部長的就是說有簽合約的只補貼手續費8%沒有簽合約的量產\n431986\t438657\t有簽合約的量財補貼8%沒有簽合約的超市補貼緊急去產會要求農業部補貼的實質差額將近達50%請問這樣子合理嗎?\n443346\t468874\t我跟委員說明這個之間可能有些誤解用合約的方式是照著合約走是8%的服務費那用買斷的方式就是說他負責從日本進口但包括內陸的運費包括裡面的關稅跟他運輸的費用那最後我們給他的就是已經到指定地點的時候的一個付錢所以不是直接用他當地的一個價錢減掉我們付款的價錢這個我想之間的資訊有點誤差\n471360\t492007\t好,所以我要跟這個,所以第一個啊,我先謝謝部長的解釋啦,我相信院長在旁邊聽的應該是覺得非常不能接受啦。那我再請教一下,所以到最後,這個我們續產會有辦理這個111年進口雞蛋的一個查核報告,裡面特別有很多委員也提出了,特別提出了\n492628\t515901\t就針對雞蛋採購的部分是因為緊急採購可以不用採購法的一個條文意思就是說可以不用去三方比價可是針對這個冷鏈倉儲的部分租金跟運費的部分這邊也有提出來說當時是沒有依照採購法是有疏失的那我們有其他委員也說既然超市進口日本蛋的時候\n516781\t543218\t都有疏失那超失進口巴西蛋的時候相關的這個冷鏈倉儲租金跟運費你們已經準備好要收回50%的費用了嗎?跟委員說明一下就是在110年度的時候我們是用例行的產價調節計劃先給他計劃先有一個計劃在那邊那他根據他沒有依照採購法的部分依政府的規定要在50%以下那這個部分我們已經追繳他們也繳回來\n544179\t570852\t那至於112年的部分我們是後面才提供一個補助所以在審核計劃的時候就已經把相關的不符合政府採購法的部分都已經扣掉了所以沒有所謂的說112年再追繳的一個問題所以112年不會追繳?不會因為是我們後面才核定的對我們後面核定的時候我們就有去檢視不符合政府採購法的部分我們的補助一定是50%以下\n572432\t599064\t好,那最後我要跟院長跟部長講,我們有去算過啦,最後這個量彩喔,他在進口這個日本蛋的時候一顆大概是6塊多塊7塊,可是超市在進日本蛋的時候一顆基本上是7塊以上,所以顧名思義就是政府續產會他在採購的金額是越來越高,跟大家所想的不一樣,而且最重要我們有去稍微算了一下,這個\n604704\t617979\t我們有去查了日本當地的這個零售價,一顆才4點多塊錢,中間將近有6塊錢的價差。是不是請這個院長跟部長,今天國會改革無法,請你回答一下,這樣到底有沒有圖利廠商的嫌疑?\n619141\t636677\t好,跟委員報告,無論超私跟政府、量財跟政府或是超私量財之間,一切的行為必須合法而且依照合約來走,否則現在我們已經移送檢調單位在進行調查。那這個事件到讓我們引以為見,未來在從事任何\n637478\t659356\t或許包括這種緊急需要的情況底下我們還是要慎選合作的對象看看他是不是能夠如實的履行合約有沒有這個能力而且我們對他是不是合約又轉嫁出去的這個行為要做適當的限制才能保障我們跟他之間直接合約關係的權利義務關係我想這個給我們很大的一個啟示跟未來的一個學習\n660077\t680771\t好,謝謝院長。每次質詢院長的時候,我發現院長其實他是一個非常nice的人。其實就是要跟這個部長跟院長講,其實超失雞蛋案,其實花了大家人民很多的納稅錢,也花了很多立法委員去查核的這個時間。那我們長期以來,越農越富,不知道是不是跟續產會溝通上有一些問題。\n681812\t705334\t所以很多時候我們立法委員去調資料的時候都自愛難行所以我要拜託我重新再講一次就是超私他在過去購買巴西蛋的時候他買了8000多萬顆結果裡面有5000多萬顆是沒辦法用的然後浪費人民納稅錢將近10億然後最近很多委員也在追現在剩下來這些雞蛋他到底能不能食用這也是一個問號\n706335\t723308\t結果大家往前去追的時候才發現111年的時候超市還有去買日本雞蛋結果他當時還是有買賣斷的情形結果112年他又變成這個貿易商不僅可以收8%的手續費還補貼巴西蛋非常多的金額\n723948\t723968\t﹚張智倫\n740529\t765813\t我希望這個叫做超思這個巴西蛋跟超思錢鑽就是我們的日本蛋我希望趕快落幕不要讓花人民那麼多的納稅錢又花很多這個我們所有委員這個這個質詢的時間好嗎?好 謝謝我跟你講我們已經送一送檢調我們相信檢調單位應該很快的會去釐清好那我們謝謝部長我們接下來剩一點時間我們是可以請經濟部的這個部長請郭部長謝謝\n770488\t770630\t郭部長請備詢\n780447\t803455\t部長好,因為時間的關係我第一次有機會跟您見面,那想不到在質詢臺上,那我也是要跟你講說辛苦了,這部長非常不容易做。其實我觀察部長一段時間,部長從一開始是說這個核能是可以大家可以討論的,如果民意可以來去做一個大家可以做一個統整的一個意見,其實你不排斥核電。\n804295\t804955\t報告委員我們的這個電力的政策應該是沒有改變\n832421\t837374\t那至於說這個可能能不能夠討論我想應該是可以討論的議題啦\n839639\t866142\t那這個未來是不是這個河山要不要研議,這個問題我們尊重大院的這個決定。那經濟部是執行單位,那只要在法的框架之下,那我們必須要依法行事。所以我想這個立法院能夠決定,就是我們做的事情的依法。謝謝,謝謝郭部長。部長,那個院長部長這樣講,您的看法是怎樣?如果大院,如果認為核電要研議,您的看法是不是跟郭部長一樣?\n866874\t888401\t其實我剛剛也表示過現在依照核管法時間已經過了5年的時間了但是如果進行修法那修法會修成什麼狀況條文怎麼樣我們現在也不能夠預測那修法之後行政院是有依法行政但是我們也希望大家在討論的時候核安的問題核廢料的處理以及如何取得社會的共識大家都能夠很理性的來討論\n889341\t899996\t沒錯,那我實際的關係最後請教一下部長,因為大家都非常關心額外,可是也很怕台灣跳電跟缺電。那而且尤其我上次在總質詢的時候我有請問,請問今年會不會還會漲電價?\n904353\t925186\t我們今年4月已經漲過11%。對,那下半年還會不會漲電價?那現在電價審議委員會每年兩次的調整時間是固定的。我想要請教院長跟部長的想法,你們支不支持下半年還漲電價?我會以民生的需求、物價的穩定,甚至能夠提供產業更多的保障。那我是請部長回答,部長應該有一些,部長是很有想法的人。部長你覺得下半年有沒有需要漲電價?\n926254\t926274\t謝謝張委員\n956249\t956650\t謝謝卓院長。接下來我們請\n","txt":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是不是有請卓院長跟我們的陳部長農業部陳部長卓院長還有陳部長請備詢\n院長、部長早安。今天是我們經濟委員會的質詢。還是先跟院長跟部長講,辛苦了。最近質詢很多。也跟你們報告,就是說最近國會改革已經三讀通過。\n﹚張智倫﹚\n那本席所以今天就要繼續來問其實本席在3月的時候就有跟當時的代理部長陳部長討論過超思雞蛋的問題這超思這家公司大家知道資本額50萬過去在112年的時候進口了8000多萬顆的巴西蛋結果後來有說5000多萬顆就是因為等著要報廢那最近也報廢了嘛對嗎部長是\n那總共花了人民大概10億的納稅錢嗎?還是多少錢?大概10億多一點。對,所以我的數學還不錯,花了10億的納稅錢。那想不到我們在追查的時候,當時我在3月的時候追查超市雞蛋的時候,發現不只在超市在112年有進口巴西8000多萬克的雞蛋,\n在111年的時候超司也將近進口了2500萬顆的雞蛋結果最近在很多立法院同仁的努力追緝之下結果發現結果現在超司他還有一個前身叫做亮采進口了500多萬顆的雞蛋所以我想要今天針對部長也跟院長報告一下超司居然還有錢賺那想要先請問一下這個部長這個有一家公司叫做亮采\n他居然有採購日本的雞蛋將近500多萬顆。請問一下部長對於量產這家公司有沒有做KYC的了解?\n我跟委員說明齁,亮彩的500多萬顆是在3月跟4月之間用合約的方式去購買的。那後續4月以後的一個雞蛋是由亮彩公司來進口,有一段時間。那進口了以後,後續在相關的那個經費,我們經費提供的時候是由超司,他用委任的關係由超司來領款。\n好,謝謝部長。所以我就是要跟部長跟院長報告。我們可以看到我們的這家\n議員﹚張智倫\n那如果合法的去申請公司上裡面有他可以營業的營業項目在裡面那應該這是一個公司法人的結構不是他個人的問題好謝謝院長的回答那部長你知道過去這個亮彩公司他有進口過日本雞蛋的經驗嗎?\n我跟委員說明過去的雞蛋大概都是由我們國內供應那在111年開始才有比較明顯的一個因為疫情的關係因為天后的關係造成缺點才有從包括那個美國澳洲跟日本來進口部長我問你的就是日本這個量產進口那請問一下我跟這個部長跟院長報告其實量產過去他在111年\n﹚張智倫\n我跟委員說明就是相關的這些亮彩跟超資之間的商業的關係因為我們在行政調查的時候是有發現到一些餘地必須澄清的所以我們已經移送給檢調單位去查處了\n的確部長這個回答其實我本期已經有收到相關的消息那可是也要我問一下農業部的一些就是一些官員他們也說其實超市跟量產他們中間是有一個這個委託的委託書還是一個讓渡書吧請問有這樣的事情嗎\n對就是他們在付款的時候有相關的一些委任的一個書狀在那邊所以我們付款是針對委任的部分然後開發票去提誰開發票我們付給誰但是後面的一些疑慮我們已經請檢調單位再查清了\n所以這就是本席要跟院長跟部長講的一家過去沒有日本進口蛋經驗的超市公司委託一個過去沒有進口日本蛋的一個量產公司然後他們兩個中間還有錯綜複雜的關係那不管是續產會過去一直以來跟農業部的交通跟交涉都非常的困難導致這個量度書的部分我相信也是很晚才提供給農業會來看到\n我想請教一下亮彩的部分其實當時是有跟這個續產會簽約所以他是用一個委託的方式他可以收取除了進口日本雞蛋以外他可以收取8%的手續費\n﹚張智倫﹚\n政府的續產會要求農業部做一個緊急的補貼補貼的本來核定是1億7最後實質補貼了8900多萬那我算一下齁我用計算機算了一下齁他這個實質的差額補貼將近高達50%那我想要請教部長的就是說有簽合約的只補貼手續費8%沒有簽合約的量產\n有簽合約的量財補貼8%沒有簽合約的超市補貼緊急去產會要求農業部補貼的實質差額將近達50%請問這樣子合理嗎?\n我跟委員說明這個之間可能有些誤解用合約的方式是照著合約走是8%的服務費那用買斷的方式就是說他負責從日本進口但包括內陸的運費包括裡面的關稅跟他運輸的費用那最後我們給他的就是已經到指定地點的時候的一個付錢所以不是直接用他當地的一個價錢減掉我們付款的價錢這個我想之間的資訊有點誤差\n好,所以我要跟這個,所以第一個啊,我先謝謝部長的解釋啦,我相信院長在旁邊聽的應該是覺得非常不能接受啦。那我再請教一下,所以到最後,這個我們續產會有辦理這個111年進口雞蛋的一個查核報告,裡面特別有很多委員也提出了,特別提出了\n就針對雞蛋採購的部分是因為緊急採購可以不用採購法的一個條文意思就是說可以不用去三方比價可是針對這個冷鏈倉儲的部分租金跟運費的部分這邊也有提出來說當時是沒有依照採購法是有疏失的那我們有其他委員也說既然超市進口日本蛋的時候\n都有疏失那超失進口巴西蛋的時候相關的這個冷鏈倉儲租金跟運費你們已經準備好要收回50%的費用了嗎?跟委員說明一下就是在110年度的時候我們是用例行的產價調節計劃先給他計劃先有一個計劃在那邊那他根據他沒有依照採購法的部分依政府的規定要在50%以下那這個部分我們已經追繳他們也繳回來\n那至於112年的部分我們是後面才提供一個補助所以在審核計劃的時候就已經把相關的不符合政府採購法的部分都已經扣掉了所以沒有所謂的說112年再追繳的一個問題所以112年不會追繳?不會因為是我們後面才核定的對我們後面核定的時候我們就有去檢視不符合政府採購法的部分我們的補助一定是50%以下\n好,那最後我要跟院長跟部長講,我們有去算過啦,最後這個量彩喔,他在進口這個日本蛋的時候一顆大概是6塊多塊7塊,可是超市在進日本蛋的時候一顆基本上是7塊以上,所以顧名思義就是政府續產會他在採購的金額是越來越高,跟大家所想的不一樣,而且最重要我們有去稍微算了一下,這個\n我們有去查了日本當地的這個零售價,一顆才4點多塊錢,中間將近有6塊錢的價差。是不是請這個院長跟部長,今天國會改革無法,請你回答一下,這樣到底有沒有圖利廠商的嫌疑?\n好,跟委員報告,無論超私跟政府、量財跟政府或是超私量財之間,一切的行為必須合法而且依照合約來走,否則現在我們已經移送檢調單位在進行調查。那這個事件到讓我們引以為見,未來在從事任何\n或許包括這種緊急需要的情況底下我們還是要慎選合作的對象看看他是不是能夠如實的履行合約有沒有這個能力而且我們對他是不是合約又轉嫁出去的這個行為要做適當的限制才能保障我們跟他之間直接合約關係的權利義務關係我想這個給我們很大的一個啟示跟未來的一個學習\n好,謝謝院長。每次質詢院長的時候,我發現院長其實他是一個非常nice的人。其實就是要跟這個部長跟院長講,其實超失雞蛋案,其實花了大家人民很多的納稅錢,也花了很多立法委員去查核的這個時間。那我們長期以來,越農越富,不知道是不是跟續產會溝通上有一些問題。\n所以很多時候我們立法委員去調資料的時候都自愛難行所以我要拜託我重新再講一次就是超私他在過去購買巴西蛋的時候他買了8000多萬顆結果裡面有5000多萬顆是沒辦法用的然後浪費人民納稅錢將近10億然後最近很多委員也在追現在剩下來這些雞蛋他到底能不能食用這也是一個問號\n結果大家往前去追的時候才發現111年的時候超市還有去買日本雞蛋結果他當時還是有買賣斷的情形結果112年他又變成這個貿易商不僅可以收8%的手續費還補貼巴西蛋非常多的金額\n﹚張智倫\n我希望這個叫做超思這個巴西蛋跟超思錢鑽就是我們的日本蛋我希望趕快落幕不要讓花人民那麼多的納稅錢又花很多這個我們所有委員這個這個質詢的時間好嗎?好 謝謝我跟你講我們已經送一送檢調我們相信檢調單位應該很快的會去釐清好那我們謝謝部長我們接下來剩一點時間我們是可以請經濟部的這個部長請郭部長謝謝\n郭部長請備詢\n部長好,因為時間的關係我第一次有機會跟您見面,那想不到在質詢臺上,那我也是要跟你講說辛苦了,這部長非常不容易做。其實我觀察部長一段時間,部長從一開始是說這個核能是可以大家可以討論的,如果民意可以來去做一個大家可以做一個統整的一個意見,其實你不排斥核電。\n報告委員我們的這個電力的政策應該是沒有改變\n那至於說這個可能能不能夠討論我想應該是可以討論的議題啦\n那這個未來是不是這個河山要不要研議,這個問題我們尊重大院的這個決定。那經濟部是執行單位,那只要在法的框架之下,那我們必須要依法行事。所以我想這個立法院能夠決定,就是我們做的事情的依法。謝謝,謝謝郭部長。部長,那個院長部長這樣講,您的看法是怎樣?如果大院,如果認為核電要研議,您的看法是不是跟郭部長一樣?\n其實我剛剛也表示過現在依照核管法時間已經過了5年的時間了但是如果進行修法那修法會修成什麼狀況條文怎麼樣我們現在也不能夠預測那修法之後行政院是有依法行政但是我們也希望大家在討論的時候核安的問題核廢料的處理以及如何取得社會的共識大家都能夠很理性的來討論\n沒錯,那我實際的關係最後請教一下部長,因為大家都非常關心額外,可是也很怕台灣跳電跟缺電。那而且尤其我上次在總質詢的時候我有請問,請問今年會不會還會漲電價?\n我們今年4月已經漲過11%。對,那下半年還會不會漲電價?那現在電價審議委員會每年兩次的調整時間是固定的。我想要請教院長跟部長的想法,你們支不支持下半年還漲電價?我會以民生的需求、物價的穩定,甚至能夠提供產業更多的保障。那我是請部長回答,部長應該有一些,部長是很有想法的人。部長你覺得下半年有沒有需要漲電價?\n謝謝張委員\n謝謝卓院長。接下來我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.523 --> 00:19.278\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是不是有請卓院長跟我們的陳部長農業部陳部長卓院長還有陳部長請備詢\n\n00:33.241 --> 00:48.389\n院長、部長早安。今天是我們經濟委員會的質詢。還是先跟院長跟部長講,辛苦了。最近質詢很多。也跟你們報告,就是說最近國會改革已經三讀通過。\n\n00:51.050 --> 00:51.070\n﹚張智倫﹚\n\n01:16.821 --> 01:39.467\n那本席所以今天就要繼續來問其實本席在3月的時候就有跟當時的代理部長陳部長討論過超思雞蛋的問題這超思這家公司大家知道資本額50萬過去在112年的時候進口了8000多萬顆的巴西蛋結果後來有說5000多萬顆就是因為等著要報廢那最近也報廢了嘛對嗎部長是\n\n01:40.467 --> 01:58.417\n那總共花了人民大概10億的納稅錢嗎?還是多少錢?大概10億多一點。對,所以我的數學還不錯,花了10億的納稅錢。那想不到我們在追查的時候,當時我在3月的時候追查超市雞蛋的時候,發現不只在超市在112年有進口巴西8000多萬克的雞蛋,\n\n01:58.977 --> 02:27.471\n在111年的時候超司也將近進口了2500萬顆的雞蛋結果最近在很多立法院同仁的努力追緝之下結果發現結果現在超司他還有一個前身叫做亮采進口了500多萬顆的雞蛋所以我想要今天針對部長也跟院長報告一下超司居然還有錢賺那想要先請問一下這個部長這個有一家公司叫做亮采\n\n02:28.371 --> 02:38.751\n他居然有採購日本的雞蛋將近500多萬顆。請問一下部長對於量產這家公司有沒有做KYC的了解?\n\n02:39.911 --> 03:03.349\n我跟委員說明齁,亮彩的500多萬顆是在3月跟4月之間用合約的方式去購買的。那後續4月以後的一個雞蛋是由亮彩公司來進口,有一段時間。那進口了以後,後續在相關的那個經費,我們經費提供的時候是由超司,他用委任的關係由超司來領款。\n\n03:04.158 --> 03:08.630\n好,謝謝部長。所以我就是要跟部長跟院長報告。我們可以看到我們的這家\n\n03:10.014 --> 03:10.034\n議員﹚張智倫\n\n03:39.643 --> 03:57.092\n那如果合法的去申請公司上裡面有他可以營業的營業項目在裡面那應該這是一個公司法人的結構不是他個人的問題好謝謝院長的回答那部長你知道過去這個亮彩公司他有進口過日本雞蛋的經驗嗎?\n\n03:58.291 --> 04:21.779\n我跟委員說明過去的雞蛋大概都是由我們國內供應那在111年開始才有比較明顯的一個因為疫情的關係因為天后的關係造成缺點才有從包括那個美國澳洲跟日本來進口部長我問你的就是日本這個量產進口那請問一下我跟這個部長跟院長報告其實量產過去他在111年\n\n04:23.539 --> 04:23.559\n﹚張智倫\n\n04:43.266 --> 04:48.809\n我跟委員說明就是相關的這些亮彩跟超資之間的商業的關係因為我們在行政調查的時候是有發現到一些餘地必須澄清的所以我們已經移送給檢調單位去查處了\n\n05:07.956 --> 05:27.036\n的確部長這個回答其實我本期已經有收到相關的消息那可是也要我問一下農業部的一些就是一些官員他們也說其實超市跟量產他們中間是有一個這個委託的委託書還是一個讓渡書吧請問有這樣的事情嗎\n\n05:27.834 --> 05:43.489\n對就是他們在付款的時候有相關的一些委任的一個書狀在那邊所以我們付款是針對委任的部分然後開發票去提誰開發票我們付給誰但是後面的一些疑慮我們已經請檢調單位再查清了\n\n05:44.116 --> 06:07.655\n所以這就是本席要跟院長跟部長講的一家過去沒有日本進口蛋經驗的超市公司委託一個過去沒有進口日本蛋的一個量產公司然後他們兩個中間還有錯綜複雜的關係那不管是續產會過去一直以來跟農業部的交通跟交涉都非常的困難導致這個量度書的部分我相信也是很晚才提供給農業會來看到\n\n06:09.156 --> 06:22.582\n我想請教一下亮彩的部分其實當時是有跟這個續產會簽約所以他是用一個委託的方式他可以收取除了進口日本雞蛋以外他可以收取8%的手續費\n\n06:24.042 --> 06:24.062\n﹚張智倫﹚\n\n06:45.768 --> 07:08.403\n政府的續產會要求農業部做一個緊急的補貼補貼的本來核定是1億7最後實質補貼了8900多萬那我算一下齁我用計算機算了一下齁他這個實質的差額補貼將近高達50%那我想要請教部長的就是說有簽合約的只補貼手續費8%沒有簽合約的量產\n\n07:11.986 --> 07:18.657\n有簽合約的量財補貼8%沒有簽合約的超市補貼緊急去產會要求農業部補貼的實質差額將近達50%請問這樣子合理嗎?\n\n07:23.346 --> 07:48.874\n我跟委員說明這個之間可能有些誤解用合約的方式是照著合約走是8%的服務費那用買斷的方式就是說他負責從日本進口但包括內陸的運費包括裡面的關稅跟他運輸的費用那最後我們給他的就是已經到指定地點的時候的一個付錢所以不是直接用他當地的一個價錢減掉我們付款的價錢這個我想之間的資訊有點誤差\n\n07:51.360 --> 08:12.007\n好,所以我要跟這個,所以第一個啊,我先謝謝部長的解釋啦,我相信院長在旁邊聽的應該是覺得非常不能接受啦。那我再請教一下,所以到最後,這個我們續產會有辦理這個111年進口雞蛋的一個查核報告,裡面特別有很多委員也提出了,特別提出了\n\n08:12.628 --> 08:35.901\n就針對雞蛋採購的部分是因為緊急採購可以不用採購法的一個條文意思就是說可以不用去三方比價可是針對這個冷鏈倉儲的部分租金跟運費的部分這邊也有提出來說當時是沒有依照採購法是有疏失的那我們有其他委員也說既然超市進口日本蛋的時候\n\n08:36.781 --> 09:03.218\n都有疏失那超失進口巴西蛋的時候相關的這個冷鏈倉儲租金跟運費你們已經準備好要收回50%的費用了嗎?跟委員說明一下就是在110年度的時候我們是用例行的產價調節計劃先給他計劃先有一個計劃在那邊那他根據他沒有依照採購法的部分依政府的規定要在50%以下那這個部分我們已經追繳他們也繳回來\n\n09:04.179 --> 09:30.852\n那至於112年的部分我們是後面才提供一個補助所以在審核計劃的時候就已經把相關的不符合政府採購法的部分都已經扣掉了所以沒有所謂的說112年再追繳的一個問題所以112年不會追繳?不會因為是我們後面才核定的對我們後面核定的時候我們就有去檢視不符合政府採購法的部分我們的補助一定是50%以下\n\n09:32.432 --> 09:59.064\n好,那最後我要跟院長跟部長講,我們有去算過啦,最後這個量彩喔,他在進口這個日本蛋的時候一顆大概是6塊多塊7塊,可是超市在進日本蛋的時候一顆基本上是7塊以上,所以顧名思義就是政府續產會他在採購的金額是越來越高,跟大家所想的不一樣,而且最重要我們有去稍微算了一下,這個\n\n10:04.704 --> 10:17.979\n我們有去查了日本當地的這個零售價,一顆才4點多塊錢,中間將近有6塊錢的價差。是不是請這個院長跟部長,今天國會改革無法,請你回答一下,這樣到底有沒有圖利廠商的嫌疑?\n\n10:19.141 --> 10:36.677\n好,跟委員報告,無論超私跟政府、量財跟政府或是超私量財之間,一切的行為必須合法而且依照合約來走,否則現在我們已經移送檢調單位在進行調查。那這個事件到讓我們引以為見,未來在從事任何\n\n10:37.478 --> 10:59.356\n或許包括這種緊急需要的情況底下我們還是要慎選合作的對象看看他是不是能夠如實的履行合約有沒有這個能力而且我們對他是不是合約又轉嫁出去的這個行為要做適當的限制才能保障我們跟他之間直接合約關係的權利義務關係我想這個給我們很大的一個啟示跟未來的一個學習\n\n11:00.077 --> 11:20.771\n好,謝謝院長。每次質詢院長的時候,我發現院長其實他是一個非常nice的人。其實就是要跟這個部長跟院長講,其實超失雞蛋案,其實花了大家人民很多的納稅錢,也花了很多立法委員去查核的這個時間。那我們長期以來,越農越富,不知道是不是跟續產會溝通上有一些問題。\n\n11:21.812 --> 11:45.334\n所以很多時候我們立法委員去調資料的時候都自愛難行所以我要拜託我重新再講一次就是超私他在過去購買巴西蛋的時候他買了8000多萬顆結果裡面有5000多萬顆是沒辦法用的然後浪費人民納稅錢將近10億然後最近很多委員也在追現在剩下來這些雞蛋他到底能不能食用這也是一個問號\n\n11:46.335 --> 12:03.308\n結果大家往前去追的時候才發現111年的時候超市還有去買日本雞蛋結果他當時還是有買賣斷的情形結果112年他又變成這個貿易商不僅可以收8%的手續費還補貼巴西蛋非常多的金額\n\n12:03.948 --> 12:03.968\n﹚張智倫\n\n12:20.529 --> 12:45.813\n我希望這個叫做超思這個巴西蛋跟超思錢鑽就是我們的日本蛋我希望趕快落幕不要讓花人民那麼多的納稅錢又花很多這個我們所有委員這個這個質詢的時間好嗎?好謝謝我跟你講我們已經送一送檢調我們相信檢調單位應該很快的會去釐清好那我們謝謝部長我們接下來剩一點時間我們是可以請經濟部的這個部長請郭部長謝謝\n\n12:50.488 --> 12:50.630\n郭部長請備詢\n\n13:00.447 --> 13:23.455\n部長好,因為時間的關係我第一次有機會跟您見面,那想不到在質詢臺上,那我也是要跟你講說辛苦了,這部長非常不容易做。其實我觀察部長一段時間,部長從一開始是說這個核能是可以大家可以討論的,如果民意可以來去做一個大家可以做一個統整的一個意見,其實你不排斥核電。\n\n13:24.295 --> 13:24.955\n報告委員我們的這個電力的政策應該是沒有改變\n\n13:52.421 --> 13:57.374\n那至於說這個可能能不能夠討論我想應該是可以討論的議題啦\n\n13:59.639 --> 14:26.142\n那這個未來是不是這個河山要不要研議,這個問題我們尊重大院的這個決定。那經濟部是執行單位,那只要在法的框架之下,那我們必須要依法行事。所以我想這個立法院能夠決定,就是我們做的事情的依法。謝謝,謝謝郭部長。部長,那個院長部長這樣講,您的看法是怎樣?如果大院,如果認為核電要研議,您的看法是不是跟郭部長一樣?\n\n14:26.874 --> 14:48.401\n其實我剛剛也表示過現在依照核管法時間已經過了5年的時間了但是如果進行修法那修法會修成什麼狀況條文怎麼樣我們現在也不能夠預測那修法之後行政院是有依法行政但是我們也希望大家在討論的時候核安的問題核廢料的處理以及如何取得社會的共識大家都能夠很理性的來討論\n\n14:49.341 --> 14:59.996\n沒錯,那我實際的關係最後請教一下部長,因為大家都非常關心額外,可是也很怕台灣跳電跟缺電。那而且尤其我上次在總質詢的時候我有請問,請問今年會不會還會漲電價?\n\n15:04.353 --> 15:25.186\n我們今年4月已經漲過11%。對,那下半年還會不會漲電價?那現在電價審議委員會每年兩次的調整時間是固定的。我想要請教院長跟部長的想法,你們支不支持下半年還漲電價?我會以民生的需求、物價的穩定,甚至能夠提供產業更多的保障。那我是請部長回答,部長應該有一些,部長是很有想法的人。部長你覺得下半年有沒有需要漲電價?\n\n15:26.254 --> 15:26.274\n謝謝張委員\n\n15:56.249 --> 15:56.650\n謝謝卓院長。接下來我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.523,"end":19.278,"text":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早我們是不是有請卓院長跟我們的陳部長農業部陳部長卓院長還有陳部長請備詢"},{"start":33.241,"end":48.389,"text":"院長、部長早安。今天是我們經濟委員會的質詢。還是先跟院長跟部長講,辛苦了。最近質詢很多。也跟你們報告,就是說最近國會改革已經三讀通過。"},{"start":51.05,"end":51.07,"text":"﹚張智倫﹚"},{"start":76.821,"end":99.467,"text":"那本席所以今天就要繼續來問其實本席在3月的時候就有跟當時的代理部長陳部長討論過超思雞蛋的問題這超思這家公司大家知道資本額50萬過去在112年的時候進口了8000多萬顆的巴西蛋結果後來有說5000多萬顆就是因為等著要報廢那最近也報廢了嘛對嗎部長是"},{"start":100.467,"end":118.417,"text":"那總共花了人民大概10億的納稅錢嗎?還是多少錢?大概10億多一點。對,所以我的數學還不錯,花了10億的納稅錢。那想不到我們在追查的時候,當時我在3月的時候追查超市雞蛋的時候,發現不只在超市在112年有進口巴西8000多萬克的雞蛋,"},{"start":118.977,"end":147.471,"text":"在111年的時候超司也將近進口了2500萬顆的雞蛋結果最近在很多立法院同仁的努力追緝之下結果發現結果現在超司他還有一個前身叫做亮采進口了500多萬顆的雞蛋所以我想要今天針對部長也跟院長報告一下超司居然還有錢賺那想要先請問一下這個部長這個有一家公司叫做亮采"},{"start":148.371,"end":158.751,"text":"他居然有採購日本的雞蛋將近500多萬顆。請問一下部長對於量產這家公司有沒有做KYC的了解?"},{"start":159.911,"end":183.349,"text":"我跟委員說明齁,亮彩的500多萬顆是在3月跟4月之間用合約的方式去購買的。那後續4月以後的一個雞蛋是由亮彩公司來進口,有一段時間。那進口了以後,後續在相關的那個經費,我們經費提供的時候是由超司,他用委任的關係由超司來領款。"},{"start":184.158,"end":188.63,"text":"好,謝謝部長。所以我就是要跟部長跟院長報告。我們可以看到我們的這家"},{"start":190.014,"end":190.034,"text":"議員﹚張智倫"},{"start":219.643,"end":237.092,"text":"那如果合法的去申請公司上裡面有他可以營業的營業項目在裡面那應該這是一個公司法人的結構不是他個人的問題好謝謝院長的回答那部長你知道過去這個亮彩公司他有進口過日本雞蛋的經驗嗎?"},{"start":238.291,"end":261.779,"text":"我跟委員說明過去的雞蛋大概都是由我們國內供應那在111年開始才有比較明顯的一個因為疫情的關係因為天后的關係造成缺點才有從包括那個美國澳洲跟日本來進口部長我問你的就是日本這個量產進口那請問一下我跟這個部長跟院長報告其實量產過去他在111年"},{"start":263.539,"end":263.559,"text":"﹚張智倫"},{"start":283.266,"end":288.809,"text":"我跟委員說明就是相關的這些亮彩跟超資之間的商業的關係因為我們在行政調查的時候是有發現到一些餘地必須澄清的所以我們已經移送給檢調單位去查處了"},{"start":307.956,"end":327.036,"text":"的確部長這個回答其實我本期已經有收到相關的消息那可是也要我問一下農業部的一些就是一些官員他們也說其實超市跟量產他們中間是有一個這個委託的委託書還是一個讓渡書吧請問有這樣的事情嗎"},{"start":327.834,"end":343.489,"text":"對就是他們在付款的時候有相關的一些委任的一個書狀在那邊所以我們付款是針對委任的部分然後開發票去提誰開發票我們付給誰但是後面的一些疑慮我們已經請檢調單位再查清了"},{"start":344.116,"end":367.655,"text":"所以這就是本席要跟院長跟部長講的一家過去沒有日本進口蛋經驗的超市公司委託一個過去沒有進口日本蛋的一個量產公司然後他們兩個中間還有錯綜複雜的關係那不管是續產會過去一直以來跟農業部的交通跟交涉都非常的困難導致這個量度書的部分我相信也是很晚才提供給農業會來看到"},{"start":369.156,"end":382.582,"text":"我想請教一下亮彩的部分其實當時是有跟這個續產會簽約所以他是用一個委託的方式他可以收取除了進口日本雞蛋以外他可以收取8%的手續費"},{"start":384.042,"end":384.062,"text":"﹚張智倫﹚"},{"start":405.768,"end":428.403,"text":"政府的續產會要求農業部做一個緊急的補貼補貼的本來核定是1億7最後實質補貼了8900多萬那我算一下齁我用計算機算了一下齁他這個實質的差額補貼將近高達50%那我想要請教部長的就是說有簽合約的只補貼手續費8%沒有簽合約的量產"},{"start":431.986,"end":438.657,"text":"有簽合約的量財補貼8%沒有簽合約的超市補貼緊急去產會要求農業部補貼的實質差額將近達50%請問這樣子合理嗎?"},{"start":443.346,"end":468.874,"text":"我跟委員說明這個之間可能有些誤解用合約的方式是照著合約走是8%的服務費那用買斷的方式就是說他負責從日本進口但包括內陸的運費包括裡面的關稅跟他運輸的費用那最後我們給他的就是已經到指定地點的時候的一個付錢所以不是直接用他當地的一個價錢減掉我們付款的價錢這個我想之間的資訊有點誤差"},{"start":471.36,"end":492.007,"text":"好,所以我要跟這個,所以第一個啊,我先謝謝部長的解釋啦,我相信院長在旁邊聽的應該是覺得非常不能接受啦。那我再請教一下,所以到最後,這個我們續產會有辦理這個111年進口雞蛋的一個查核報告,裡面特別有很多委員也提出了,特別提出了"},{"start":492.628,"end":515.901,"text":"就針對雞蛋採購的部分是因為緊急採購可以不用採購法的一個條文意思就是說可以不用去三方比價可是針對這個冷鏈倉儲的部分租金跟運費的部分這邊也有提出來說當時是沒有依照採購法是有疏失的那我們有其他委員也說既然超市進口日本蛋的時候"},{"start":516.781,"end":543.218,"text":"都有疏失那超失進口巴西蛋的時候相關的這個冷鏈倉儲租金跟運費你們已經準備好要收回50%的費用了嗎?跟委員說明一下就是在110年度的時候我們是用例行的產價調節計劃先給他計劃先有一個計劃在那邊那他根據他沒有依照採購法的部分依政府的規定要在50%以下那這個部分我們已經追繳他們也繳回來"},{"start":544.179,"end":570.852,"text":"那至於112年的部分我們是後面才提供一個補助所以在審核計劃的時候就已經把相關的不符合政府採購法的部分都已經扣掉了所以沒有所謂的說112年再追繳的一個問題所以112年不會追繳?不會因為是我們後面才核定的對我們後面核定的時候我們就有去檢視不符合政府採購法的部分我們的補助一定是50%以下"},{"start":572.432,"end":599.064,"text":"好,那最後我要跟院長跟部長講,我們有去算過啦,最後這個量彩喔,他在進口這個日本蛋的時候一顆大概是6塊多塊7塊,可是超市在進日本蛋的時候一顆基本上是7塊以上,所以顧名思義就是政府續產會他在採購的金額是越來越高,跟大家所想的不一樣,而且最重要我們有去稍微算了一下,這個"},{"start":604.704,"end":617.979,"text":"我們有去查了日本當地的這個零售價,一顆才4點多塊錢,中間將近有6塊錢的價差。是不是請這個院長跟部長,今天國會改革無法,請你回答一下,這樣到底有沒有圖利廠商的嫌疑?"},{"start":619.141,"end":636.677,"text":"好,跟委員報告,無論超私跟政府、量財跟政府或是超私量財之間,一切的行為必須合法而且依照合約來走,否則現在我們已經移送檢調單位在進行調查。那這個事件到讓我們引以為見,未來在從事任何"},{"start":637.478,"end":659.356,"text":"或許包括這種緊急需要的情況底下我們還是要慎選合作的對象看看他是不是能夠如實的履行合約有沒有這個能力而且我們對他是不是合約又轉嫁出去的這個行為要做適當的限制才能保障我們跟他之間直接合約關係的權利義務關係我想這個給我們很大的一個啟示跟未來的一個學習"},{"start":660.077,"end":680.771,"text":"好,謝謝院長。每次質詢院長的時候,我發現院長其實他是一個非常nice的人。其實就是要跟這個部長跟院長講,其實超失雞蛋案,其實花了大家人民很多的納稅錢,也花了很多立法委員去查核的這個時間。那我們長期以來,越農越富,不知道是不是跟續產會溝通上有一些問題。"},{"start":681.812,"end":705.334,"text":"所以很多時候我們立法委員去調資料的時候都自愛難行所以我要拜託我重新再講一次就是超私他在過去購買巴西蛋的時候他買了8000多萬顆結果裡面有5000多萬顆是沒辦法用的然後浪費人民納稅錢將近10億然後最近很多委員也在追現在剩下來這些雞蛋他到底能不能食用這也是一個問號"},{"start":706.335,"end":723.308,"text":"結果大家往前去追的時候才發現111年的時候超市還有去買日本雞蛋結果他當時還是有買賣斷的情形結果112年他又變成這個貿易商不僅可以收8%的手續費還補貼巴西蛋非常多的金額"},{"start":723.948,"end":723.968,"text":"﹚張智倫"},{"start":740.529,"end":765.813,"text":"我希望這個叫做超思這個巴西蛋跟超思錢鑽就是我們的日本蛋我希望趕快落幕不要讓花人民那麼多的納稅錢又花很多這個我們所有委員這個這個質詢的時間好嗎?好 謝謝我跟你講我們已經送一送檢調我們相信檢調單位應該很快的會去釐清好那我們謝謝部長我們接下來剩一點時間我們是可以請經濟部的這個部長請郭部長謝謝"},{"start":770.488,"end":770.63,"text":"郭部長請備詢"},{"start":780.447,"end":803.455,"text":"部長好,因為時間的關係我第一次有機會跟您見面,那想不到在質詢臺上,那我也是要跟你講說辛苦了,這部長非常不容易做。其實我觀察部長一段時間,部長從一開始是說這個核能是可以大家可以討論的,如果民意可以來去做一個大家可以做一個統整的一個意見,其實你不排斥核電。"},{"start":804.295,"end":804.955,"text":"報告委員我們的這個電力的政策應該是沒有改變"},{"start":832.421,"end":837.374,"text":"那至於說這個可能能不能夠討論我想應該是可以討論的議題啦"},{"start":839.639,"end":866.142,"text":"那這個未來是不是這個河山要不要研議,這個問題我們尊重大院的這個決定。那經濟部是執行單位,那只要在法的框架之下,那我們必須要依法行事。所以我想這個立法院能夠決定,就是我們做的事情的依法。謝謝,謝謝郭部長。部長,那個院長部長這樣講,您的看法是怎樣?如果大院,如果認為核電要研議,您的看法是不是跟郭部長一樣?"},{"start":866.874,"end":888.401,"text":"其實我剛剛也表示過現在依照核管法時間已經過了5年的時間了但是如果進行修法那修法會修成什麼狀況條文怎麼樣我們現在也不能夠預測那修法之後行政院是有依法行政但是我們也希望大家在討論的時候核安的問題核廢料的處理以及如何取得社會的共識大家都能夠很理性的來討論"},{"start":889.341,"end":899.996,"text":"沒錯,那我實際的關係最後請教一下部長,因為大家都非常關心額外,可是也很怕台灣跳電跟缺電。那而且尤其我上次在總質詢的時候我有請問,請問今年會不會還會漲電價?"},{"start":904.353,"end":925.186,"text":"我們今年4月已經漲過11%。對,那下半年還會不會漲電價?那現在電價審議委員會每年兩次的調整時間是固定的。我想要請教院長跟部長的想法,你們支不支持下半年還漲電價?我會以民生的需求、物價的穩定,甚至能夠提供產業更多的保障。那我是請部長回答,部長應該有一些,部長是很有想法的人。部長你覺得下半年有沒有需要漲電價?"},{"start":926.254,"end":926.274,"text":"謝謝張委員"},{"start":956.249,"end":956.65,"text":"謝謝卓院長。接下來我們請"}]}}}}