{"id":154422,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154422","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/67413232838a154769583e59a4d0637d2c12d918673f79f1571e0513cca39fd5048316b8811dac4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"09:33:57 - 09:49:39","影片長度":"00:15:42","會議時間":"2024-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-02","start_time":"2024-07-02T09:33:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-02T09:49:39+08:00","duration":942,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議","id":"院會-11-1-20","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":195,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（9時34分）謝謝主席。請卓院長還有經濟部郭部長。"],["主席：請卓院長還有郭部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：院長、部長好。我請問一下卓院長，針對SRF的發電，不知道院長知不知道？想請問一下，它到底是焚化廠還是發電廠？"],["卓院長榮泰：它是把廢棄物固化之後到一個新型態的焚化廠裡面，它可以做再一次的能源使用。"],["涂委員權吉：所以是兩者兼具嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["涂委員權吉：我請問一下，像我們是臺灣民主社會，我們不管是設立焚化廠還是發電廠，是不是在設立之前應該要跟我們鄉親充分地溝通，讓我們鄉親能夠瞭解政府到底要做的是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：一定是有用地的取得以及環境的影響，當然要跟社會、民眾有一定的共識，大家一同來接受、甚至來維護一個新興型態的設施。"],["涂委員權吉：對，所以也是希望說讓我們居民能夠瞭解政府要做的是焚化廠還是發電廠。我現在要跟院長這邊報告，我們桃園有三家SRF垃圾發電廠，一個台灣立方、一個可寧衛、一個立疆，這三家入駐我們桃科，後來民眾踢爆之後，才要求這三家召開說明會，廠商後來才召開，當然後來民眾才瞭解。據我們去瞭解之後，發現這三家其實早在107年的時候就有函詢桃園市政府經發局，針對這三家SRF垃圾發電廠入駐桃科的可行性，當時的經發局就很明確告知，他們是不符合土管規定，所以也告知它說桃科的入駐電廠是以汽電共生，而且以天然氣為主，所以燃燒事業廢棄物SRF這一部分是不符合我們土管入駐的要點。","也就是說針對這三家SRF廠，在109年4月1號經濟部能源署有發了再生能源發電設備的同意備案給台灣立方，在4月1號發；所以經發局發現之後，就在4月29號馬上公告明確的規範，就是汽電共生僅限天然氣，SRF不在這之列，所以也就是明確地告知經濟部，經發局認為入駐桃科與土管規定是不合的。針對這部分，院長跟部長知不知道這個事情？"],["郭部長智輝：經濟部推薦那個時候是機關配合程序，不是作為入園必要的條件，經濟部發函桃園市政府是表達沒有參採的必要，所以收回當時對桃園市政府的政策表述，這個是經濟部對桃園市政府的回應。"],["涂委員權吉：對，我這邊也要問一下院長、部長，我們針對這三家SRF入駐觀音桃科，我想瞭解一下，這個決定權到底是經濟部說了算還是桃園市政府說了算？"],["郭部長智輝：桃園市政府。"],["涂委員權吉：桃園市政府嘛！好，那我們看一下這個時間軸，讓院長、部長瞭解一下，剛剛我講其實在107年的時候，三家就函詢經發局，經發局就明確告知它是不符合入園的規定；然後在108年的時候，當時的市長是鄭文燦市長，他就陸續核發了這三家廠商的土地建照，後來中央也陸續准許這三家，發給他們再生能源發電設備的同意備案。就像我剛剛講，後來這備案發出之後，經發局就緊張，怕說這個廠商是不是有走後門之虞，所以明確規範汽電共生僅限天然氣，SRF是排除在外。","後來經濟部、中央就針對這三家廠商在109年12月份開了一場專案的會議，也就是說，它也知道它不符合土管的規定，所以當時經濟部長王美花就下指導棋，要求當時的市長鄭文燦同意以專案的方式入園。當然鄭市長也知道經發局都是反對，而且它不符合土管的規定，所以就要求經濟部如果要讓這三家入園，請經濟部發推薦函，他才同意入園。後來很快經濟部就針對這三家廠商發了入園的推薦函，當然鄭市長也履行他的承諾，同意這三家廠商入園。後來民眾踢爆之後，然後要求廠商說明，結果這三家廠商開了說明會之後，民眾聽了反而更加恐慌，後來才發現它根本就不是什麼SRF電廠，根本就是垃圾焚化爐，藉由發電來入駐桃科。張善政市長上任之後，基於民意反彈的壓力，而且他在瞭解之後知道這三家不符合土管規定，是經濟部當時要求市府以專案的方式來進行，後來經濟部也礙於民意的壓力，而且當時正在選舉，所以剛剛部長也有講，經濟部後來撤回了這個推薦函，基於種種以上的原因，張善政市長從善如流撤銷了這三家廠商的入園許可。就像剛剛郭部長講的，你說這個權責單位在桃園市政府，就是說桃園市政府可以決定它的入園與否，但是沒有想到張市長在3月份撤銷它的入園許可，結果經濟部在6月份竟然駁回桃園市的行政處分，也就是同意這三家SRF廠繼續入駐桃科、入駐觀音。郭部長，你覺得那桃園市政府已經駁回，為什麼你們還要駁回桃園市政府的處分，同意這三家繼續興建入駐？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這件事情是這樣，桃園市政府向經濟部提訴願，我們由訴願委員會依法律專業決定，訴願委員會有11位委員，主要是由外部的法律專家學者所組成，包括專業的公法學者，依法做出一致的決定……"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，部長，重點就是……"],["郭部長智輝：也不是經濟部自己、經濟部部長或者是經濟部……"],["涂委員權吉：好，那我請問一下，經濟部駁回桃園市政府這個行政處分是基於什麼原因、基於什麼理由？"],["郭部長智輝：我們沒有處分。"],["涂委員權吉：不是，你說這三家廠商針對張善政市長、桃園市政府撤銷入園許可，你前面有說桃園市政府是權責單位，可以決定他們的入園與否，結果桃園市政府駁回，也就是撤銷這三家的入園，可是經濟部居然還駁回桃園市政府的撤銷入園許可。你剛剛說桃園市政府可以決定，桃園市政府決定之後，你們經濟部又召開會議同意這三家廠商的訴願，繼續讓他們入駐，你說主管單位可以決定，那你們又駁回，到底是經濟部決定還是桃園市政府決定？"],["郭部長智輝：所以才去訴願啊！"],["涂委員權吉：所以你們同意他們的訴願啊！"],["郭部長智輝：訴願委員會做的決定啊！"],["涂委員權吉：訴願駁回桃園市政府的理由是什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：基本上，他們來訴願說這是經濟部下條子給桃園的，但事實上不是這個樣子……"],["涂委員權吉：部長，我跟你講，如果你覺得不對，你可以反駁。其實我有看過當初的會議紀錄，有明確的告知，當初鄭文燦市長知道經發局反對，所以他說如果要同意這三家入園，要經濟部王美花部長發三家推薦函才准許他們入園，後來民眾反彈之後，經濟部就說這個推薦函沒有法律效力，所以撤回。後來桃園市政府基於推薦函當初是由經濟部推薦，既然經濟部撤銷推薦函，表示當初推薦入園的理由也不復存在，而且我重申，他們從頭到尾就不符合土管要點，是你們用專案的方式，既然不符合土管要點，那你們當初推薦的理由、自己的推薦函已經撤銷，而且民意那麼反彈，所以張善政市長撤銷，結果撤銷之後，你們說撤銷推薦函只是你們的一個程序，因為推薦函沒有法律效力，而入園的必要條件是要再生能源發電設備許可，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，我想桃園市政府可以決定這三家業者有什麼樣的條件允許他們進來。"],["涂委員權吉：所以他現在不同意啊！我剛剛一直有跟你講，他們不符合土管要點啊！那是後來你們推薦……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，桃園市政府並沒有不同意，只是那個辦法他們現在還在討論……"],["涂委員權吉：部長，我再跟你講，我剛剛有講，我有看過公文，你們說推薦函非必要條件，主要條件是再生能源發電設備許可……"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們現在與桃園市政府正在談，看怎麼樣的辦法可以讓他們進來，有什麼樣的規定，讓他們不是做垃圾焚燒……"],["涂委員權吉：我在這邊也提醒部長，我剛剛有講，桃園市政府經發局從頭到尾都說他們不符合土管要點，後來你們經濟部在109年4月1號發給台灣立方再生能源發電設備許可……"],["郭部長智輝：不是，報告委員，那不是主管……"],["涂委員權吉：後來你們說這個是必要條件，但是109年4月29號當經發局發現之後……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員……"],["涂委員權吉：馬上公告這個許可函根本不符合桃科的入園、入駐規定，所以也就是打臉經濟部你們這個許可根本對桃科是無效的，結果你們把它當作入園的必要條件，我認為連這個必要條件應該也不復存在，基本上這三家SRF廠的入駐根本就沒有任何原因理由，完全不符合規定，經發局也都已經發函，基本上連這個許可函也是打臉經濟部。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，現在桃園市政府要求我們給它一個……什麼叫做入園許可，我們現在正在協商相關辦法，如果按照過去的說法，桃園市政府當然不同意這三個廠商進來，但我們現在是朝著如何能夠讓這件事情順利完成，哪一些規範是桃園市政府跟桃園市民所concern的事情，我們把這些定義清楚，讓這些業者還是可以持續運作，只是不像大家所擔心的，它可能是一個焚化爐，它不是一個……"],["涂委員權吉：好，感謝院長、感謝部長，我聽部長這樣講，其實部長也是站在鄉親這邊。我今天也要提醒部長，當你們說推薦函沒有法律效力，可是必要條件的這個許可也不符合桃科的入園規定，你們的必要條件基本上跟桃科入園規定是相牴觸的，所以這個必要條件根本不存在，我希望經濟部撤銷這個再生能源發電設備的許可，因為你們的許可根本跟入駐桃科的土管規定相牴觸。希望可以救救觀音人、救救桃園人，民意既然這麼地反彈，這件事情在地方，不管是張善政市長，還是本席以及當地的議員，甚至新屋、觀音31個里長都已經連署，他們希望經濟部能夠撤銷這個許可，把這個必要條件消失，讓我們觀音能夠有一個更好的生活環境，因為他們有講，他們現在要的是健康，不要回饋金。"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在就是在討論這些入園的辦法和規範，讓大家同意，包括桃園市政府也同意朝這個方向大家一起來努力，事實上那三家廠商當中已經有兩家已經蓋好了，他們也投資了很多錢，而且這是國際的廠商進來，和我們友好的國家都有在關注這個問題……"],["涂委員權吉：對，但是這點……"],["郭部長智輝：我們也希望國際大廠願意到桃園來投資，這個是非常重要的，我們對國際大廠的處理如果稍微不慎，可能會影響後面更大的投資，所以這一點也請委員能夠瞭解。"],["涂委員權吉：好，我也跟部長講，我們也希望所有都要按照制度來，我們並不是反商。我剛剛有說了這個時間軸，部長跟院長你們要聽一下，你們當初核發這三家廠商的土地建照時根本都沒有同意他們入園耶！所以他們是在還沒有同意他們入園就去興建，我不知道是誰給他們的承諾，為什麼還沒有同意入園就可以先蓋？"],["郭部長智輝：這不是我們經濟部同意的啊！這個是桃園市政府同意的。"],["涂委員權吉：可是當初的市長是鄭文燦市長喔！"],["郭部長智輝：我想民主制度就這個樣子……"],["涂委員權吉：所以我希望院長、部長請你們正視這個問題，因為蔡英文前總統也有講，當政府聽不到人民的聲音，人民唯有走上街頭、發出怒吼。我相信民主進步黨一直以來都是走街頭運動，只要政府所做的違反民意，我相信民進黨政府也是鼓勵民眾走上街頭，所以在這邊希望部長跟院長能夠幫忙。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，部長所回答的您應該清楚，他非常積極地聽各地的聲音，也積極在跟地方政府協調，我們繼續努力。"],["涂委員權吉：好，我們也希望能幫鄉親解決這個問題。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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,885 --> 00:00:15,868\n好,謝謝主席。那請我們左院長還有我們經濟部的郭部長。來,請左院長還有郭部長備詢。各位好。\n\n2\n00:00:28,578 --> 00:00:52,290\n好,院長部長好我請問一下我們卓院長齁那針對SRF這個發電我想說院長不知道知不知道那想請問一下他到底是焚化廠還是發電廠他是一個把廢棄物固化之後到一個新型態的一個焚化廠裡面他可以做再次的能源的使用所以是兩者兼具嘛\n\n3\n00:00:53,802 --> 00:01:07,930\n我請問一下,像我們台灣民主社會,那我們不管是設立焚化廠還是發電廠,是不是在設立之前應該要跟我們鄉親充分的溝通,讓我們鄉親能夠了解我們政府到底要做的是什麼?\n\n4\n00:01:08,390 --> 00:01:10,391\n對,所以也是希望說能夠讓我們居民能夠了解我們政府\n\n5\n00:01:55,637 --> 00:02:18,994\n這三家其實早在107年的時候就有含詢我們桃園市政府經發局針對這三家SRF垃圾發電廠入駐我們桃科的可行性當時的經發局就很明確告知他們是不符合圖管規定所以也告知他說我們這個桃科的入駐\n\n6\n00:02:38,783 --> 00:03:03,221\n我們這三家SRF廠在4月1號我們經濟部能源署有發了我們再生能源發電設備的同意備案給台灣立方在4月1號發所以經發局發現之後就在4月29號馬上公告明確的規範就是說氣電共生僅限天然氣SRF不在這之列所以也就是\n\n7\n00:03:03,701 --> 00:03:14,447\n明確的告知經濟部這個入住逃課經發局認為這圖款規定是不合的那知不知道針對這部分院長跟部長知不知道這個事情\n\n8\n00:03:16,359 --> 00:03:42,052\n經濟部推薦那個時候是機關配合程序。那麼不是作為這個入園必要的條件。所以經濟部發言與這個桃市政府是表達這個沒有這個參採的必要。所以收回當時對桃園市政府的這個政策表述。這個是經濟部對這個桃園的桃園市政府的這個回應。\n\n9\n00:03:43,711 --> 00:03:58,323\n對,那我這邊也要問一下我們院長部長,我們針對這三家SF入住觀音陶科,我想了解一下這個決定權到底是經濟部說的算還是桃園市政府說的算?桃園市政府\n\n10\n00:03:58,783 --> 00:04:25,216\n好,那我們看一下這個時間軸,讓這個院長部長了解一下。其實在剛好我講107年的時候,我們三家就含詢經發局,經發局就明確告知他是不符合入園的規定。然後在108年的時候,我們當時的市長是鄭文燦市長,他就陸續核發了這三家廠商的土地建造。\n\n11\n00:04:25,856 --> 00:04:47,381\n後來中央也陸續准許這三家發給他們再生能源發電設備的同意備案。那就像我剛剛講,後來這備案發出之後經發局就緊張啊,怕說這個廠商數有走後門之魚,所以明確規範說氣電共生僅限天然氣,SRF是排除在外。\n\n12\n00:04:47,901 --> 00:05:02,323\n後來我們經濟部中央就針對這三家廠商在109年12月份開了一場專案的會議也就是說他也知道他不符合圖管的規定所以\n\n13\n00:05:03,564 --> 00:05:28,739\n當時我們經濟部長王美華就下指導期要求我們當時的市長鄭文燦同意以專案的方式入園那當然鄭市長也知道這個經發局都是反對而且他不符合圖管的規定所以就要求經濟部說如果要讓這三家入園請經濟部發推薦函他才同意入園後來很快我們經濟部就在後面針對這三家廠商發的入園的\n\n14\n00:05:31,772 --> 00:05:49,712\n推薦函那當然政事長也履行他的承諾同意這三家廠商入園那後來民眾踢爆之後然後要求廠商說明結果這三家廠商開了說明會之後民眾聽了反而更加恐慌後來才發現\n\n15\n00:05:50,553 --> 00:05:50,793\n﹚涂權吉\n\n16\n00:06:14,555 --> 00:06:31,352\n後來也經濟部也礙於民意的壓力而且剛時也正在選舉所以我們經濟部剛剛部長有講後來也撤回了這推薦函那基於這種種以上的原因張善政市長就從善如流就撤銷了這三家廠商的入園許可\n\n17\n00:06:31,832 --> 00:06:54,986\n但是沒有想到在3月份撤銷就像剛剛郭部長講你說這個權責單位在桃園市政府就是說桃園市政府可以決定他的入園與否但是沒有想到張市長撤銷他的入園許可結果在6月份我們經濟部居然駁回桃園市的行政處分也就是同意這三家SRF廠\n\n18\n00:06:55,586 --> 00:06:58,607\n報告委員這件事情是這樣就是說臺灣市政府來向這個經濟部提這個訴願那我們是\n\n19\n00:07:17,274 --> 00:07:22,037\n蘇院委員會有11位委員,主要是由外部法律專家學者所組成的,包括專業公法學者。\n\n20\n00:07:32,825 --> 00:07:39,371\n好沒關係部長重點重點就是經濟部那我請問一下我們經濟部駁回桃園市政府這個行政處分是基於什麼原因基於什麼理由我沒有處分\n\n21\n00:07:50,660 --> 00:08:06,247\n不是你說這三家廠商針對張善政市長桃園市政府撤銷入園許可你前面有說這是桃園市政府是權責單位他可以決定他的入園與否結果他駁回也就是撤銷這三家的入園結果我們經濟部\n\n22\n00:08:07,307 --> 00:08:10,970\n所以才去訴願阿訴願委員會做的決定阿訴願博回桃園市政府的理由是什麼?\n\n23\n00:08:37,691 --> 00:09:03,347\n我就是他這個基本上他來訴願說這個是經濟部下條部長我告訴你好了因為因為不是這個樣子部長這個我跟你講如果說你覺得不對你可以反駁當初你們後來說其實當初我有看過這會議記錄有明確的告知當初鄭文燦市長知道經發局反對所以他說如果要統一這三家入園要經濟部王美花部長發\n\n24\n00:09:04,708 --> 00:09:29,355\n三家推薦函他才准許他入園後來民眾反彈之後然後我們經濟部就說這個推薦函沒有法律效力所以他撤回那後來桃園市政府基於推薦函當初是由經濟部推薦他說居然經濟部撤銷推薦函表示當初推薦入園的理由也不復存在\n\n25\n00:09:29,775 --> 00:09:48,328\n而且我重申他從頭到尾就不符合他的圖館要點是你們用專案的方式那居然不符合圖館要點那你當初推薦的理由你自己推薦還已經撤銷而且民意那麼反彈所以張善政市長撤銷那你結果撤銷之後你們說撤銷推薦還只是\n\n26\n00:09:50,129 --> 00:09:55,993\n報告委員我想這一部分這個桃園市政府他可以決定這個三家公司三家業者他有什麼樣的條件允許他進來\n\n27\n00:10:12,386 --> 00:10:34,365\n所以他現在不同意啊,因為我剛剛一直有跟你講,他不符合他圖管要點啊,那是後來你們推薦...報告委員,這個桃園施政並沒有不同意,只是說那個辦法他們現在還在討論...部長,我再跟你講,因為我剛剛有講,後來我看過公文,你們說推薦含非必要條件,主要條件是再生能源發電設備許可。\n\n28\n00:10:36,207 --> 00:10:41,391\n所以我在這邊也提醒部長我在這邊也提醒部長我剛剛有講桃園市政府經發局從頭到尾就說他不符合圖管要點後來你們經濟部在109年4月1號發給\n\n29\n00:10:58,524 --> 00:11:01,327\n發給臺灣立方再生能源發電設備許可後來你們說這個是必要條件但是在109年4月29日經發局當他發現之後馬上公告說你這一個許可函\n\n30\n00:11:15,641 --> 00:11:44,167\n根本不符合陶科的入園入住的規定所以也就是打臉經濟部說你這個許可根本對於陶科是無效的結果你們把他當作入園的必要條件所以我認為這個連這個必要條件應該也不復存在所以這三家SRF廠基本上他的入住根本都沒有任何原因理由完全不符合規定連這個許可涵基本上經發局都已經發函說他基本上這個許可涵也是打臉經濟部\n\n31\n00:11:45,467 --> 00:12:09,181\n報告委員我想這一部分我們現在這個桃園市政府是要求我們給他一個那什麼叫做這個入園許可我們現在是在協商這些辦法就是說這三個廠商如果按照過去的這個說法那麼當然是桃園這個市政府不同意他進來但是我們現在是朝著把這件事情如何能夠讓他能夠順利的這個完成\n\n32\n00:12:10,862 --> 00:12:10,882\n好﹖\n\n33\n00:12:26,946 --> 00:12:46,606\n那也感謝院長感謝部長我聽部長這樣講其實部長也是站在鄉親這一邊所以我今天也要提醒部長就是說當你說推薦還沒有法律效力可是你的必要條件其實也這個許可也不符合桃科的入園規定所以你這個必要條件在桃科入園規定\n\n34\n00:12:47,567 --> 00:13:16,086\n基本上跟逃課入園規定是相抵觸所以你的必要條件根本也不存在所以我希望經濟部撤銷這個再生能源發電設備的許可因為你的許可根本跟入住逃課的圖板規定根本是相抵觸所以希望救救觀音人救救桃園人居然民意這麼的反彈這件事情地方不管是張善政市長還是本席還有當地的議員甚至\n\n35\n00:13:16,886 --> 00:13:34,959\n新屋關英31個里長也已經連署他們說希望我們經濟部能夠撤銷這個許可把這個必要條件來消失讓我們關英喔能夠有一個更好的生活環境因為他們有講他們現在要健康不要回饋金\n\n36\n00:13:37,137 --> 00:14:01,152\n我們現在就是在討論這些這個辦法入園的辦法規範大家同意包括桃園市政府他也同意朝這個方向大家來努力因為那個三家廠商事實上已經有兩家已經都蓋好了他們也投資很多的錢而且這個是國際的這個廠商進來這一部分包括我們友好的這個國家都有在關注這個問題\n\n37\n00:14:02,132 --> 00:14:18,528\n我們也希望在這個國際的大廠的這個願意到桃園來投資啊這個是一個非常重要的我在想我們對這個國際大廠的處理如果稍微不慎可能會影響後面的這個更大的這個投資所以這一點也請委員會了解\n\n38\n00:14:20,129 --> 00:14:31,586\n我們也是希望所有的都要按照制度來所以我們也並不是反傷所以我剛剛有說這個時間軸所以部長跟院長你們要聽一下\n\n39\n00:14:33,493 --> 00:14:35,175\n可是當時的市長是鄭文燦市長喔?\n\n40\n00:15:02,688 --> 00:15:20,603\n所以我希望院長部長請你們正視這個問題因為我說我們蔡英文總統也有講當政府聽不到人民的聲音人民唯有走上街頭發出怒吼我相信我們民主進步黨一直以來都是走街頭運動\n\n41\n00:15:21,724 --> 00:15:32,474\n只要政府所做的是違反民意我相信我們的政府我們民進黨政府也是鼓勵民眾手上接頭所以在這邊希望部長跟院長能夠幫忙\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8885\t15868\t好,謝謝主席。那請我們左院長還有我們經濟部的郭部長。來,請左院長還有郭部長備詢。各位好。\n28578\t52290\t好,院長部長好我請問一下我們卓院長齁那針對SRF這個發電我想說院長不知道知不知道那想請問一下他到底是焚化廠還是發電廠他是一個把廢棄物固化之後到一個新型態的一個焚化廠裡面他可以做再次的能源的使用所以是兩者兼具嘛\n53802\t67930\t我請問一下,像我們台灣民主社會,那我們不管是設立焚化廠還是發電廠,是不是在設立之前應該要跟我們鄉親充分的溝通,讓我們鄉親能夠了解我們政府到底要做的是什麼?\n68390\t70391\t對,所以也是希望說能夠讓我們居民能夠了解我們政府\n84957\t114957\t﹏﹏\n115637\t138994\t這三家其實早在107年的時候就有含詢我們桃園市政府經發局針對這三家SRF垃圾發電廠入駐我們桃科的可行性當時的經發局就很明確告知他們是不符合圖管規定所以也告知他說我們這個桃科的入駐\n140009\t158353\t﹗﹗\n158783\t183221\t我們這三家SRF廠在4月1號我們經濟部能源署有發了我們再生能源發電設備的同意備案給台灣立方在4月1號發所以經發局發現之後就在4月29號馬上公告明確的規範就是說氣電共生僅限天然氣SRF不在這之列所以也就是\n183701\t194447\t明確的告知經濟部這個入住逃課經發局認為這圖款規定是不合的那知不知道針對這部分院長跟部長知不知道這個事情\n196359\t222052\t經濟部推薦那個時候是機關配合程序。那麼不是作為這個入園必要的條件。所以經濟部發言與這個桃市政府是表達這個沒有這個參採的必要。所以收回當時對桃園市政府的這個政策表述。這個是經濟部對這個桃園的桃園市政府的這個回應。\n223711\t238323\t對,那我這邊也要問一下我們院長部長,我們針對這三家SF入住觀音陶科,我想了解一下這個決定權到底是經濟部說的算還是桃園市政府說的算?桃園市政府\n238783\t265216\t好,那我們看一下這個時間軸,讓這個院長部長了解一下。其實在剛好我講107年的時候,我們三家就含詢經發局,經發局就明確告知他是不符合入園的規定。然後在108年的時候,我們當時的市長是鄭文燦市長,他就陸續核發了這三家廠商的土地建造。\n265856\t287381\t後來中央也陸續准許這三家發給他們再生能源發電設備的同意備案。那就像我剛剛講,後來這備案發出之後經發局就緊張啊,怕說這個廠商數有走後門之魚,所以明確規範說氣電共生僅限天然氣,SRF是排除在外。\n287901\t302323\t後來我們經濟部中央就針對這三家廠商在109年12月份開了一場專案的會議也就是說他也知道他不符合圖管的規定所以\n303564\t328739\t當時我們經濟部長王美華就下指導期要求我們當時的市長鄭文燦同意以專案的方式入園那當然鄭市長也知道這個經發局都是反對而且他不符合圖管的規定所以就要求經濟部說如果要讓這三家入園請經濟部發推薦函他才同意入園後來很快我們經濟部就在後面針對這三家廠商發的入園的\n331772\t349712\t推薦函那當然政事長也履行他的承諾同意這三家廠商入園那後來民眾踢爆之後然後要求廠商說明結果這三家廠商開了說明會之後民眾聽了反而更加恐慌後來才發現\n350553\t350793\t﹚涂權吉\n374555\t391352\t後來也經濟部也礙於民意的壓力而且剛時也正在選舉所以我們經濟部剛剛部長有講後來也撤回了這推薦函那基於這種種以上的原因張善政市長就從善如流就撤銷了這三家廠商的入園許可\n391832\t414986\t但是沒有想到在3月份撤銷就像剛剛郭部長講你說這個權責單位在桃園市政府就是說桃園市政府可以決定他的入園與否但是沒有想到張市長撤銷他的入園許可結果在6月份我們經濟部居然駁回桃園市的行政處分也就是同意這三家SRF廠\n415586\t418607\t報告委員這件事情是這樣就是說臺灣市政府來向這個經濟部提這個訴願那我們是\n437274\t442037\t蘇院委員會有11位委員,主要是由外部法律專家學者所組成的,包括專業公法學者。\n452825\t459371\t好沒關係部長重點重點就是經濟部那我請問一下我們經濟部駁回桃園市政府這個行政處分是基於什麼原因基於什麼理由我沒有處分\n470660\t486247\t不是你說這三家廠商針對張善政市長桃園市政府撤銷入園許可你前面有說這是桃園市政府是權責單位他可以決定他的入園與否結果他駁回也就是撤銷這三家的入園結果我們經濟部\n487307\t490970\t所以才去訴願阿訴願委員會做的決定阿訴願博回桃園市政府的理由是什麼?\n517691\t543347\t我就是他這個基本上他來訴願說這個是經濟部下條部長我告訴你好了因為因為不是這個樣子部長這個我跟你講如果說你覺得不對你可以反駁當初你們後來說其實當初我有看過這會議記錄有明確的告知當初鄭文燦市長知道經發局反對所以他說如果要統一這三家入園要經濟部王美花部長發\n544708\t569355\t三家推薦函他才准許他入園後來民眾反彈之後然後我們經濟部就說這個推薦函沒有法律效力所以他撤回那後來桃園市政府基於推薦函當初是由經濟部推薦他說居然經濟部撤銷推薦函表示當初推薦入園的理由也不復存在\n569775\t588328\t而且我重申他從頭到尾就不符合他的圖館要點是你們用專案的方式那居然不符合圖館要點那你當初推薦的理由你自己推薦還已經撤銷而且民意那麼反彈所以張善政市長撤銷那你結果撤銷之後你們說撤銷推薦還只是\n590129\t595993\t報告委員我想這一部分這個桃園市政府他可以決定這個三家公司三家業者他有什麼樣的條件允許他進來\n612386\t634365\t所以他現在不同意啊,因為我剛剛一直有跟你講,他不符合他圖管要點啊,那是後來你們推薦...報告委員,這個桃園施政並沒有不同意,只是說那個辦法他們現在還在討論...部長,我再跟你講,因為我剛剛有講,後來我看過公文,你們說推薦含非必要條件,主要條件是再生能源發電設備許可。\n636207\t641391\t所以我在這邊也提醒部長我在這邊也提醒部長我剛剛有講桃園市政府經發局從頭到尾就說他不符合圖管要點後來你們經濟部在109年4月1號發給\n658524\t661327\t發給臺灣立方再生能源發電設備許可後來你們說這個是必要條件但是在109年4月29日經發局當他發現之後馬上公告說你這一個許可函\n675641\t704167\t根本不符合陶科的入園入住的規定所以也就是打臉經濟部說你這個許可根本對於陶科是無效的結果你們把他當作入園的必要條件所以我認為這個連這個必要條件應該也不復存在所以這三家SRF廠基本上他的入住根本都沒有任何原因理由完全不符合規定連這個許可涵基本上經發局都已經發函說他基本上這個許可涵也是打臉經濟部\n705467\t729181\t報告委員我想這一部分我們現在這個桃園市政府是要求我們給他一個那什麼叫做這個入園許可我們現在是在協商這些辦法就是說這三個廠商如果按照過去的這個說法那麼當然是桃園這個市政府不同意他進來但是我們現在是朝著把這件事情如何能夠讓他能夠順利的這個完成\n730862\t730882\t好﹖\n746946\t766606\t那也感謝院長感謝部長我聽部長這樣講其實部長也是站在鄉親這一邊所以我今天也要提醒部長就是說當你說推薦還沒有法律效力可是你的必要條件其實也這個許可也不符合桃科的入園規定所以你這個必要條件在桃科入園規定\n767567\t796086\t基本上跟逃課入園規定是相抵觸所以你的必要條件根本也不存在所以我希望經濟部撤銷這個再生能源發電設備的許可因為你的許可根本跟入住逃課的圖板規定根本是相抵觸所以希望救救觀音人救救桃園人居然民意這麼的反彈這件事情地方不管是張善政市長還是本席還有當地的議員甚至\n796886\t814959\t新屋關英31個里長也已經連署他們說希望我們經濟部能夠撤銷這個許可把這個必要條件來消失讓我們關英喔能夠有一個更好的生活環境因為他們有講他們現在要健康不要回饋金\n817137\t841152\t我們現在就是在討論這些這個辦法入園的辦法規範大家同意包括桃園市政府他也同意朝這個方向大家來努力因為那個三家廠商事實上已經有兩家已經都蓋好了他們也投資很多的錢而且這個是國際的這個廠商進來這一部分包括我們友好的這個國家都有在關注這個問題\n842132\t858528\t我們也希望在這個國際的大廠的這個願意到桃園來投資啊這個是一個非常重要的我在想我們對這個國際大廠的處理如果稍微不慎可能會影響後面的這個更大的這個投資所以這一點也請委員會了解\n860129\t871586\t我們也是希望所有的都要按照制度來所以我們也並不是反傷所以我剛剛有說這個時間軸所以部長跟院長你們要聽一下\n873493\t875175\t可是當時的市長是鄭文燦市長喔?\n902688\t920603\t所以我希望院長部長請你們正視這個問題因為我說我們蔡英文總統也有講當政府聽不到人民的聲音人民唯有走上街頭發出怒吼我相信我們民主進步黨一直以來都是走街頭運動\n921724\t932474\t只要政府所做的是違反民意我相信我們的政府我們民進黨政府也是鼓勵民眾手上接頭所以在這邊希望部長跟院長能夠幫忙\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。那請我們左院長還有我們經濟部的郭部長。來,請左院長還有郭部長備詢。各位好。\n好,院長部長好我請問一下我們卓院長齁那針對SRF這個發電我想說院長不知道知不知道那想請問一下他到底是焚化廠還是發電廠他是一個把廢棄物固化之後到一個新型態的一個焚化廠裡面他可以做再次的能源的使用所以是兩者兼具嘛\n我請問一下,像我們台灣民主社會,那我們不管是設立焚化廠還是發電廠,是不是在設立之前應該要跟我們鄉親充分的溝通,讓我們鄉親能夠了解我們政府到底要做的是什麼?\n對,所以也是希望說能夠讓我們居民能夠了解我們政府\n﹏﹏\n這三家其實早在107年的時候就有含詢我們桃園市政府經發局針對這三家SRF垃圾發電廠入駐我們桃科的可行性當時的經發局就很明確告知他們是不符合圖管規定所以也告知他說我們這個桃科的入駐\n﹗﹗\n我們這三家SRF廠在4月1號我們經濟部能源署有發了我們再生能源發電設備的同意備案給台灣立方在4月1號發所以經發局發現之後就在4月29號馬上公告明確的規範就是說氣電共生僅限天然氣SRF不在這之列所以也就是\n明確的告知經濟部這個入住逃課經發局認為這圖款規定是不合的那知不知道針對這部分院長跟部長知不知道這個事情\n經濟部推薦那個時候是機關配合程序。那麼不是作為這個入園必要的條件。所以經濟部發言與這個桃市政府是表達這個沒有這個參採的必要。所以收回當時對桃園市政府的這個政策表述。這個是經濟部對這個桃園的桃園市政府的這個回應。\n對,那我這邊也要問一下我們院長部長,我們針對這三家SF入住觀音陶科,我想了解一下這個決定權到底是經濟部說的算還是桃園市政府說的算?桃園市政府\n好,那我們看一下這個時間軸,讓這個院長部長了解一下。其實在剛好我講107年的時候,我們三家就含詢經發局,經發局就明確告知他是不符合入園的規定。然後在108年的時候,我們當時的市長是鄭文燦市長,他就陸續核發了這三家廠商的土地建造。\n後來中央也陸續准許這三家發給他們再生能源發電設備的同意備案。那就像我剛剛講,後來這備案發出之後經發局就緊張啊,怕說這個廠商數有走後門之魚,所以明確規範說氣電共生僅限天然氣,SRF是排除在外。\n後來我們經濟部中央就針對這三家廠商在109年12月份開了一場專案的會議也就是說他也知道他不符合圖管的規定所以\n當時我們經濟部長王美華就下指導期要求我們當時的市長鄭文燦同意以專案的方式入園那當然鄭市長也知道這個經發局都是反對而且他不符合圖管的規定所以就要求經濟部說如果要讓這三家入園請經濟部發推薦函他才同意入園後來很快我們經濟部就在後面針對這三家廠商發的入園的\n推薦函那當然政事長也履行他的承諾同意這三家廠商入園那後來民眾踢爆之後然後要求廠商說明結果這三家廠商開了說明會之後民眾聽了反而更加恐慌後來才發現\n﹚涂權吉\n後來也經濟部也礙於民意的壓力而且剛時也正在選舉所以我們經濟部剛剛部長有講後來也撤回了這推薦函那基於這種種以上的原因張善政市長就從善如流就撤銷了這三家廠商的入園許可\n但是沒有想到在3月份撤銷就像剛剛郭部長講你說這個權責單位在桃園市政府就是說桃園市政府可以決定他的入園與否但是沒有想到張市長撤銷他的入園許可結果在6月份我們經濟部居然駁回桃園市的行政處分也就是同意這三家SRF廠\n報告委員這件事情是這樣就是說臺灣市政府來向這個經濟部提這個訴願那我們是\n蘇院委員會有11位委員,主要是由外部法律專家學者所組成的,包括專業公法學者。\n好沒關係部長重點重點就是經濟部那我請問一下我們經濟部駁回桃園市政府這個行政處分是基於什麼原因基於什麼理由我沒有處分\n不是你說這三家廠商針對張善政市長桃園市政府撤銷入園許可你前面有說這是桃園市政府是權責單位他可以決定他的入園與否結果他駁回也就是撤銷這三家的入園結果我們經濟部\n所以才去訴願阿訴願委員會做的決定阿訴願博回桃園市政府的理由是什麼?\n我就是他這個基本上他來訴願說這個是經濟部下條部長我告訴你好了因為因為不是這個樣子部長這個我跟你講如果說你覺得不對你可以反駁當初你們後來說其實當初我有看過這會議記錄有明確的告知當初鄭文燦市長知道經發局反對所以他說如果要統一這三家入園要經濟部王美花部長發\n三家推薦函他才准許他入園後來民眾反彈之後然後我們經濟部就說這個推薦函沒有法律效力所以他撤回那後來桃園市政府基於推薦函當初是由經濟部推薦他說居然經濟部撤銷推薦函表示當初推薦入園的理由也不復存在\n而且我重申他從頭到尾就不符合他的圖館要點是你們用專案的方式那居然不符合圖館要點那你當初推薦的理由你自己推薦還已經撤銷而且民意那麼反彈所以張善政市長撤銷那你結果撤銷之後你們說撤銷推薦還只是\n報告委員我想這一部分這個桃園市政府他可以決定這個三家公司三家業者他有什麼樣的條件允許他進來\n所以他現在不同意啊,因為我剛剛一直有跟你講,他不符合他圖管要點啊,那是後來你們推薦...報告委員,這個桃園施政並沒有不同意,只是說那個辦法他們現在還在討論...部長,我再跟你講,因為我剛剛有講,後來我看過公文,你們說推薦含非必要條件,主要條件是再生能源發電設備許可。\n所以我在這邊也提醒部長我在這邊也提醒部長我剛剛有講桃園市政府經發局從頭到尾就說他不符合圖管要點後來你們經濟部在109年4月1號發給\n發給臺灣立方再生能源發電設備許可後來你們說這個是必要條件但是在109年4月29日經發局當他發現之後馬上公告說你這一個許可函\n根本不符合陶科的入園入住的規定所以也就是打臉經濟部說你這個許可根本對於陶科是無效的結果你們把他當作入園的必要條件所以我認為這個連這個必要條件應該也不復存在所以這三家SRF廠基本上他的入住根本都沒有任何原因理由完全不符合規定連這個許可涵基本上經發局都已經發函說他基本上這個許可涵也是打臉經濟部\n報告委員我想這一部分我們現在這個桃園市政府是要求我們給他一個那什麼叫做這個入園許可我們現在是在協商這些辦法就是說這三個廠商如果按照過去的這個說法那麼當然是桃園這個市政府不同意他進來但是我們現在是朝著把這件事情如何能夠讓他能夠順利的這個完成\n好﹖\n那也感謝院長感謝部長我聽部長這樣講其實部長也是站在鄉親這一邊所以我今天也要提醒部長就是說當你說推薦還沒有法律效力可是你的必要條件其實也這個許可也不符合桃科的入園規定所以你這個必要條件在桃科入園規定\n基本上跟逃課入園規定是相抵觸所以你的必要條件根本也不存在所以我希望經濟部撤銷這個再生能源發電設備的許可因為你的許可根本跟入住逃課的圖板規定根本是相抵觸所以希望救救觀音人救救桃園人居然民意這麼的反彈這件事情地方不管是張善政市長還是本席還有當地的議員甚至\n新屋關英31個里長也已經連署他們說希望我們經濟部能夠撤銷這個許可把這個必要條件來消失讓我們關英喔能夠有一個更好的生活環境因為他們有講他們現在要健康不要回饋金\n我們現在就是在討論這些這個辦法入園的辦法規範大家同意包括桃園市政府他也同意朝這個方向大家來努力因為那個三家廠商事實上已經有兩家已經都蓋好了他們也投資很多的錢而且這個是國際的這個廠商進來這一部分包括我們友好的這個國家都有在關注這個問題\n我們也希望在這個國際的大廠的這個願意到桃園來投資啊這個是一個非常重要的我在想我們對這個國際大廠的處理如果稍微不慎可能會影響後面的這個更大的這個投資所以這一點也請委員會了解\n我們也是希望所有的都要按照制度來所以我們也並不是反傷所以我剛剛有說這個時間軸所以部長跟院長你們要聽一下\n可是當時的市長是鄭文燦市長喔?\n所以我希望院長部長請你們正視這個問題因為我說我們蔡英文總統也有講當政府聽不到人民的聲音人民唯有走上街頭發出怒吼我相信我們民主進步黨一直以來都是走街頭運動\n只要政府所做的是違反民意我相信我們的政府我們民進黨政府也是鼓勵民眾手上接頭所以在這邊希望部長跟院長能夠幫忙\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.885 --> 00:15.868\n好,謝謝主席。那請我們左院長還有我們經濟部的郭部長。來,請左院長還有郭部長備詢。各位好。\n\n00:28.578 --> 00:52.290\n好,院長部長好我請問一下我們卓院長齁那針對SRF這個發電我想說院長不知道知不知道那想請問一下他到底是焚化廠還是發電廠他是一個把廢棄物固化之後到一個新型態的一個焚化廠裡面他可以做再次的能源的使用所以是兩者兼具嘛\n\n00:53.802 --> 01:07.930\n我請問一下,像我們台灣民主社會,那我們不管是設立焚化廠還是發電廠,是不是在設立之前應該要跟我們鄉親充分的溝通,讓我們鄉親能夠了解我們政府到底要做的是什麼?\n\n01:08.390 --> 01:10.391\n對,所以也是希望說能夠讓我們居民能夠了解我們政府\n\n01:55.637 --> 02:18.994\n這三家其實早在107年的時候就有含詢我們桃園市政府經發局針對這三家SRF垃圾發電廠入駐我們桃科的可行性當時的經發局就很明確告知他們是不符合圖管規定所以也告知他說我們這個桃科的入駐\n\n02:38.783 --> 03:03.221\n我們這三家SRF廠在4月1號我們經濟部能源署有發了我們再生能源發電設備的同意備案給台灣立方在4月1號發所以經發局發現之後就在4月29號馬上公告明確的規範就是說氣電共生僅限天然氣SRF不在這之列所以也就是\n\n03:03.701 --> 03:14.447\n明確的告知經濟部這個入住逃課經發局認為這圖款規定是不合的那知不知道針對這部分院長跟部長知不知道這個事情\n\n03:16.359 --> 03:42.052\n經濟部推薦那個時候是機關配合程序。那麼不是作為這個入園必要的條件。所以經濟部發言與這個桃市政府是表達這個沒有這個參採的必要。所以收回當時對桃園市政府的這個政策表述。這個是經濟部對這個桃園的桃園市政府的這個回應。\n\n03:43.711 --> 03:58.323\n對,那我這邊也要問一下我們院長部長,我們針對這三家SF入住觀音陶科,我想了解一下這個決定權到底是經濟部說的算還是桃園市政府說的算?桃園市政府\n\n03:58.783 --> 04:25.216\n好,那我們看一下這個時間軸,讓這個院長部長了解一下。其實在剛好我講107年的時候,我們三家就含詢經發局,經發局就明確告知他是不符合入園的規定。然後在108年的時候,我們當時的市長是鄭文燦市長,他就陸續核發了這三家廠商的土地建造。\n\n04:25.856 --> 04:47.381\n後來中央也陸續准許這三家發給他們再生能源發電設備的同意備案。那就像我剛剛講,後來這備案發出之後經發局就緊張啊,怕說這個廠商數有走後門之魚,所以明確規範說氣電共生僅限天然氣,SRF是排除在外。\n\n04:47.901 --> 05:02.323\n後來我們經濟部中央就針對這三家廠商在109年12月份開了一場專案的會議也就是說他也知道他不符合圖管的規定所以\n\n05:03.564 --> 05:28.739\n當時我們經濟部長王美華就下指導期要求我們當時的市長鄭文燦同意以專案的方式入園那當然鄭市長也知道這個經發局都是反對而且他不符合圖管的規定所以就要求經濟部說如果要讓這三家入園請經濟部發推薦函他才同意入園後來很快我們經濟部就在後面針對這三家廠商發的入園的\n\n05:31.772 --> 05:49.712\n推薦函那當然政事長也履行他的承諾同意這三家廠商入園那後來民眾踢爆之後然後要求廠商說明結果這三家廠商開了說明會之後民眾聽了反而更加恐慌後來才發現\n\n05:50.553 --> 05:50.793\n﹚涂權吉\n\n06:14.555 --> 06:31.352\n後來也經濟部也礙於民意的壓力而且剛時也正在選舉所以我們經濟部剛剛部長有講後來也撤回了這推薦函那基於這種種以上的原因張善政市長就從善如流就撤銷了這三家廠商的入園許可\n\n06:31.832 --> 06:54.986\n但是沒有想到在3月份撤銷就像剛剛郭部長講你說這個權責單位在桃園市政府就是說桃園市政府可以決定他的入園與否但是沒有想到張市長撤銷他的入園許可結果在6月份我們經濟部居然駁回桃園市的行政處分也就是同意這三家SRF廠\n\n06:55.586 --> 06:58.607\n報告委員這件事情是這樣就是說臺灣市政府來向這個經濟部提這個訴願那我們是\n\n07:17.274 --> 07:22.037\n蘇院委員會有11位委員,主要是由外部法律專家學者所組成的,包括專業公法學者。\n\n07:32.825 --> 07:39.371\n好沒關係部長重點重點就是經濟部那我請問一下我們經濟部駁回桃園市政府這個行政處分是基於什麼原因基於什麼理由我沒有處分\n\n07:50.660 --> 08:06.247\n不是你說這三家廠商針對張善政市長桃園市政府撤銷入園許可你前面有說這是桃園市政府是權責單位他可以決定他的入園與否結果他駁回也就是撤銷這三家的入園結果我們經濟部\n\n08:07.307 --> 08:10.970\n所以才去訴願阿訴願委員會做的決定阿訴願博回桃園市政府的理由是什麼?\n\n08:37.691 --> 09:03.347\n我就是他這個基本上他來訴願說這個是經濟部下條部長我告訴你好了因為因為不是這個樣子部長這個我跟你講如果說你覺得不對你可以反駁當初你們後來說其實當初我有看過這會議記錄有明確的告知當初鄭文燦市長知道經發局反對所以他說如果要統一這三家入園要經濟部王美花部長發\n\n09:04.708 --> 09:29.355\n三家推薦函他才准許他入園後來民眾反彈之後然後我們經濟部就說這個推薦函沒有法律效力所以他撤回那後來桃園市政府基於推薦函當初是由經濟部推薦他說居然經濟部撤銷推薦函表示當初推薦入園的理由也不復存在\n\n09:29.775 --> 09:48.328\n而且我重申他從頭到尾就不符合他的圖館要點是你們用專案的方式那居然不符合圖館要點那你當初推薦的理由你自己推薦還已經撤銷而且民意那麼反彈所以張善政市長撤銷那你結果撤銷之後你們說撤銷推薦還只是\n\n09:50.129 --> 09:55.993\n報告委員我想這一部分這個桃園市政府他可以決定這個三家公司三家業者他有什麼樣的條件允許他進來\n\n10:12.386 --> 10:34.365\n所以他現在不同意啊,因為我剛剛一直有跟你講,他不符合他圖管要點啊,那是後來你們推薦...報告委員,這個桃園施政並沒有不同意,只是說那個辦法他們現在還在討論...部長,我再跟你講,因為我剛剛有講,後來我看過公文,你們說推薦含非必要條件,主要條件是再生能源發電設備許可。\n\n10:36.207 --> 10:41.391\n所以我在這邊也提醒部長我在這邊也提醒部長我剛剛有講桃園市政府經發局從頭到尾就說他不符合圖管要點後來你們經濟部在109年4月1號發給\n\n10:58.524 --> 11:01.327\n發給臺灣立方再生能源發電設備許可後來你們說這個是必要條件但是在109年4月29日經發局當他發現之後馬上公告說你這一個許可函\n\n11:15.641 --> 11:44.167\n根本不符合陶科的入園入住的規定所以也就是打臉經濟部說你這個許可根本對於陶科是無效的結果你們把他當作入園的必要條件所以我認為這個連這個必要條件應該也不復存在所以這三家SRF廠基本上他的入住根本都沒有任何原因理由完全不符合規定連這個許可涵基本上經發局都已經發函說他基本上這個許可涵也是打臉經濟部\n\n11:45.467 --> 12:09.181\n報告委員我想這一部分我們現在這個桃園市政府是要求我們給他一個那什麼叫做這個入園許可我們現在是在協商這些辦法就是說這三個廠商如果按照過去的這個說法那麼當然是桃園這個市政府不同意他進來但是我們現在是朝著把這件事情如何能夠讓他能夠順利的這個完成\n\n12:10.862 --> 12:10.882\n好﹖\n\n12:26.946 --> 12:46.606\n那也感謝院長感謝部長我聽部長這樣講其實部長也是站在鄉親這一邊所以我今天也要提醒部長就是說當你說推薦還沒有法律效力可是你的必要條件其實也這個許可也不符合桃科的入園規定所以你這個必要條件在桃科入園規定\n\n12:47.567 --> 13:16.086\n基本上跟逃課入園規定是相抵觸所以你的必要條件根本也不存在所以我希望經濟部撤銷這個再生能源發電設備的許可因為你的許可根本跟入住逃課的圖板規定根本是相抵觸所以希望救救觀音人救救桃園人居然民意這麼的反彈這件事情地方不管是張善政市長還是本席還有當地的議員甚至\n\n13:16.886 --> 13:34.959\n新屋關英31個里長也已經連署他們說希望我們經濟部能夠撤銷這個許可把這個必要條件來消失讓我們關英喔能夠有一個更好的生活環境因為他們有講他們現在要健康不要回饋金\n\n13:37.137 --> 14:01.152\n我們現在就是在討論這些這個辦法入園的辦法規範大家同意包括桃園市政府他也同意朝這個方向大家來努力因為那個三家廠商事實上已經有兩家已經都蓋好了他們也投資很多的錢而且這個是國際的這個廠商進來這一部分包括我們友好的這個國家都有在關注這個問題\n\n14:02.132 --> 14:18.528\n我們也希望在這個國際的大廠的這個願意到桃園來投資啊這個是一個非常重要的我在想我們對這個國際大廠的處理如果稍微不慎可能會影響後面的這個更大的這個投資所以這一點也請委員會了解\n\n14:20.129 --> 14:31.586\n我們也是希望所有的都要按照制度來所以我們也並不是反傷所以我剛剛有說這個時間軸所以部長跟院長你們要聽一下\n\n14:33.493 --> 14:35.175\n可是當時的市長是鄭文燦市長喔?\n\n15:02.688 --> 15:20.603\n所以我希望院長部長請你們正視這個問題因為我說我們蔡英文總統也有講當政府聽不到人民的聲音人民唯有走上街頭發出怒吼我相信我們民主進步黨一直以來都是走街頭運動\n\n15:21.724 --> 15:32.474\n只要政府所做的是違反民意我相信我們的政府我們民進黨政府也是鼓勵民眾手上接頭所以在這邊希望部長跟院長能夠幫忙\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.885,"end":15.868,"text":"好,謝謝主席。那請我們左院長還有我們經濟部的郭部長。來,請左院長還有郭部長備詢。各位好。"},{"start":28.578,"end":52.29,"text":"好,院長部長好我請問一下我們卓院長齁那針對SRF這個發電我想說院長不知道知不知道那想請問一下他到底是焚化廠還是發電廠他是一個把廢棄物固化之後到一個新型態的一個焚化廠裡面他可以做再次的能源的使用所以是兩者兼具嘛"},{"start":53.802,"end":67.93,"text":"我請問一下,像我們台灣民主社會,那我們不管是設立焚化廠還是發電廠,是不是在設立之前應該要跟我們鄉親充分的溝通,讓我們鄉親能夠了解我們政府到底要做的是什麼?"},{"start":68.39,"end":70.391,"text":"對,所以也是希望說能夠讓我們居民能夠了解我們政府"},{"start":84.957,"end":114.957,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":115.637,"end":138.994,"text":"這三家其實早在107年的時候就有含詢我們桃園市政府經發局針對這三家SRF垃圾發電廠入駐我們桃科的可行性當時的經發局就很明確告知他們是不符合圖管規定所以也告知他說我們這個桃科的入駐"},{"start":140.009,"end":158.353,"text":"﹗﹗"},{"start":158.783,"end":183.221,"text":"我們這三家SRF廠在4月1號我們經濟部能源署有發了我們再生能源發電設備的同意備案給台灣立方在4月1號發所以經發局發現之後就在4月29號馬上公告明確的規範就是說氣電共生僅限天然氣SRF不在這之列所以也就是"},{"start":183.701,"end":194.447,"text":"明確的告知經濟部這個入住逃課經發局認為這圖款規定是不合的那知不知道針對這部分院長跟部長知不知道這個事情"},{"start":196.359,"end":222.052,"text":"經濟部推薦那個時候是機關配合程序。那麼不是作為這個入園必要的條件。所以經濟部發言與這個桃市政府是表達這個沒有這個參採的必要。所以收回當時對桃園市政府的這個政策表述。這個是經濟部對這個桃園的桃園市政府的這個回應。"},{"start":223.711,"end":238.323,"text":"對,那我這邊也要問一下我們院長部長,我們針對這三家SF入住觀音陶科,我想了解一下這個決定權到底是經濟部說的算還是桃園市政府說的算?桃園市政府"},{"start":238.783,"end":265.216,"text":"好,那我們看一下這個時間軸,讓這個院長部長了解一下。其實在剛好我講107年的時候,我們三家就含詢經發局,經發局就明確告知他是不符合入園的規定。然後在108年的時候,我們當時的市長是鄭文燦市長,他就陸續核發了這三家廠商的土地建造。"},{"start":265.856,"end":287.381,"text":"後來中央也陸續准許這三家發給他們再生能源發電設備的同意備案。那就像我剛剛講,後來這備案發出之後經發局就緊張啊,怕說這個廠商數有走後門之魚,所以明確規範說氣電共生僅限天然氣,SRF是排除在外。"},{"start":287.901,"end":302.323,"text":"後來我們經濟部中央就針對這三家廠商在109年12月份開了一場專案的會議也就是說他也知道他不符合圖管的規定所以"},{"start":303.564,"end":328.739,"text":"當時我們經濟部長王美華就下指導期要求我們當時的市長鄭文燦同意以專案的方式入園那當然鄭市長也知道這個經發局都是反對而且他不符合圖管的規定所以就要求經濟部說如果要讓這三家入園請經濟部發推薦函他才同意入園後來很快我們經濟部就在後面針對這三家廠商發的入園的"},{"start":331.772,"end":349.712,"text":"推薦函那當然政事長也履行他的承諾同意這三家廠商入園那後來民眾踢爆之後然後要求廠商說明結果這三家廠商開了說明會之後民眾聽了反而更加恐慌後來才發現"},{"start":350.553,"end":350.793,"text":"﹚涂權吉"},{"start":374.555,"end":391.352,"text":"後來也經濟部也礙於民意的壓力而且剛時也正在選舉所以我們經濟部剛剛部長有講後來也撤回了這推薦函那基於這種種以上的原因張善政市長就從善如流就撤銷了這三家廠商的入園許可"},{"start":391.832,"end":414.986,"text":"但是沒有想到在3月份撤銷就像剛剛郭部長講你說這個權責單位在桃園市政府就是說桃園市政府可以決定他的入園與否但是沒有想到張市長撤銷他的入園許可結果在6月份我們經濟部居然駁回桃園市的行政處分也就是同意這三家SRF廠"},{"start":415.586,"end":418.607,"text":"報告委員這件事情是這樣就是說臺灣市政府來向這個經濟部提這個訴願那我們是"},{"start":437.274,"end":442.037,"text":"蘇院委員會有11位委員,主要是由外部法律專家學者所組成的,包括專業公法學者。"},{"start":452.825,"end":459.371,"text":"好沒關係部長重點重點就是經濟部那我請問一下我們經濟部駁回桃園市政府這個行政處分是基於什麼原因基於什麼理由我沒有處分"},{"start":470.66,"end":486.247,"text":"不是你說這三家廠商針對張善政市長桃園市政府撤銷入園許可你前面有說這是桃園市政府是權責單位他可以決定他的入園與否結果他駁回也就是撤銷這三家的入園結果我們經濟部"},{"start":487.307,"end":490.97,"text":"所以才去訴願阿訴願委員會做的決定阿訴願博回桃園市政府的理由是什麼?"},{"start":517.691,"end":543.347,"text":"我就是他這個基本上他來訴願說這個是經濟部下條部長我告訴你好了因為因為不是這個樣子部長這個我跟你講如果說你覺得不對你可以反駁當初你們後來說其實當初我有看過這會議記錄有明確的告知當初鄭文燦市長知道經發局反對所以他說如果要統一這三家入園要經濟部王美花部長發"},{"start":544.708,"end":569.355,"text":"三家推薦函他才准許他入園後來民眾反彈之後然後我們經濟部就說這個推薦函沒有法律效力所以他撤回那後來桃園市政府基於推薦函當初是由經濟部推薦他說居然經濟部撤銷推薦函表示當初推薦入園的理由也不復存在"},{"start":569.775,"end":588.328,"text":"而且我重申他從頭到尾就不符合他的圖館要點是你們用專案的方式那居然不符合圖館要點那你當初推薦的理由你自己推薦還已經撤銷而且民意那麼反彈所以張善政市長撤銷那你結果撤銷之後你們說撤銷推薦還只是"},{"start":590.129,"end":595.993,"text":"報告委員我想這一部分這個桃園市政府他可以決定這個三家公司三家業者他有什麼樣的條件允許他進來"},{"start":612.386,"end":634.365,"text":"所以他現在不同意啊,因為我剛剛一直有跟你講,他不符合他圖管要點啊,那是後來你們推薦...報告委員,這個桃園施政並沒有不同意,只是說那個辦法他們現在還在討論...部長,我再跟你講,因為我剛剛有講,後來我看過公文,你們說推薦含非必要條件,主要條件是再生能源發電設備許可。"},{"start":636.207,"end":641.391,"text":"所以我在這邊也提醒部長我在這邊也提醒部長我剛剛有講桃園市政府經發局從頭到尾就說他不符合圖管要點後來你們經濟部在109年4月1號發給"},{"start":658.524,"end":661.327,"text":"發給臺灣立方再生能源發電設備許可後來你們說這個是必要條件但是在109年4月29日經發局當他發現之後馬上公告說你這一個許可函"},{"start":675.641,"end":704.167,"text":"根本不符合陶科的入園入住的規定所以也就是打臉經濟部說你這個許可根本對於陶科是無效的結果你們把他當作入園的必要條件所以我認為這個連這個必要條件應該也不復存在所以這三家SRF廠基本上他的入住根本都沒有任何原因理由完全不符合規定連這個許可涵基本上經發局都已經發函說他基本上這個許可涵也是打臉經濟部"},{"start":705.467,"end":729.181,"text":"報告委員我想這一部分我們現在這個桃園市政府是要求我們給他一個那什麼叫做這個入園許可我們現在是在協商這些辦法就是說這三個廠商如果按照過去的這個說法那麼當然是桃園這個市政府不同意他進來但是我們現在是朝著把這件事情如何能夠讓他能夠順利的這個完成"},{"start":730.862,"end":730.882,"text":"好﹖"},{"start":746.946,"end":766.606,"text":"那也感謝院長感謝部長我聽部長這樣講其實部長也是站在鄉親這一邊所以我今天也要提醒部長就是說當你說推薦還沒有法律效力可是你的必要條件其實也這個許可也不符合桃科的入園規定所以你這個必要條件在桃科入園規定"},{"start":767.567,"end":796.086,"text":"基本上跟逃課入園規定是相抵觸所以你的必要條件根本也不存在所以我希望經濟部撤銷這個再生能源發電設備的許可因為你的許可根本跟入住逃課的圖板規定根本是相抵觸所以希望救救觀音人救救桃園人居然民意這麼的反彈這件事情地方不管是張善政市長還是本席還有當地的議員甚至"},{"start":796.886,"end":814.959,"text":"新屋關英31個里長也已經連署他們說希望我們經濟部能夠撤銷這個許可把這個必要條件來消失讓我們關英喔能夠有一個更好的生活環境因為他們有講他們現在要健康不要回饋金"},{"start":817.137,"end":841.152,"text":"我們現在就是在討論這些這個辦法入園的辦法規範大家同意包括桃園市政府他也同意朝這個方向大家來努力因為那個三家廠商事實上已經有兩家已經都蓋好了他們也投資很多的錢而且這個是國際的這個廠商進來這一部分包括我們友好的這個國家都有在關注這個問題"},{"start":842.132,"end":858.528,"text":"我們也希望在這個國際的大廠的這個願意到桃園來投資啊這個是一個非常重要的我在想我們對這個國際大廠的處理如果稍微不慎可能會影響後面的這個更大的這個投資所以這一點也請委員會了解"},{"start":860.129,"end":871.586,"text":"我們也是希望所有的都要按照制度來所以我們也並不是反傷所以我剛剛有說這個時間軸所以部長跟院長你們要聽一下"},{"start":873.493,"end":875.175,"text":"可是當時的市長是鄭文燦市長喔?"},{"start":902.688,"end":920.603,"text":"所以我希望院長部長請你們正視這個問題因為我說我們蔡英文總統也有講當政府聽不到人民的聲音人民唯有走上街頭發出怒吼我相信我們民主進步黨一直以來都是走街頭運動"},{"start":921.724,"end":932.474,"text":"只要政府所做的是違反民意我相信我們的政府我們民進黨政府也是鼓勵民眾手上接頭所以在這邊希望部長跟院長能夠幫忙"}]}}}}