{"id":154435,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154435","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/67413232838a1547e1c6a31ce4e5649c2c12d918673f79f1bad52d3b6009b7430c0883a82e0276fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"14:44:32 - 15:00:41","影片長度":"00:16:09","會議時間":"2024-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-02","start_time":"2024-07-02T14:44:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-02T15:00:41+08:00","duration":969,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議","id":"院會-11-1-20","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":55,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（14時44分）謝謝主席，請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：呂委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：院長好。院長，你是行政院的大家長，也是家裡的家長，所以我想請教你，你為人父母，那你的兒女在小時候，你是不是一定有跟他講一些小故事？"],["卓院長榮泰：會啊！"],["呂委員玉玲：是，所以我請教院長，你知不知道大禹治水？"],["卓院長榮泰：知道。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以本席想問院長，你知道大禹治水，那為什麼現在大禹治水會被討論呢？最重要就是媒體報導出來，有一個家長跟孩子分享大禹治水的故事，但是他這個高中的孩子卻不知道大禹治水，結果被炎上了。因為大家都認為大禹治水是個神話，而這個神話，你與其去瞭解大禹治水，不如去瞭解八田與一，說到這邊我就要請教院長，你認為八田與一跟大禹治水哪一個重要？"],["卓院長榮泰：他存在不同的時代，也存在不同的地域，就我們這個時候來看，八田與一在臺灣、在南部是比較近的時代，去瞭解他應該也是一個比較快速、直接的，而大禹治水是早期、更早遠的時代，所以能夠瞭解到大禹治水跟八田與一，這兩者的關係就是一個歷史的傳承跟接續。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你的意思是哪個重要？"],["卓院長榮泰：就歷史來看，他就是事實存在的。"],["呂委員玉玲：事實存在？"],["卓院長榮泰：只要是事實存在的歷史都是正確而重要，都應該去瞭解。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，因為我們的國家叫中華民國，不管是過去的歷史或是承接的歷史，只要是我們國家在，我們就必須去傳承、去瞭解，而不是只限於一個區域而已，所以講到這邊就表示八田與一跟大禹治水是一樣的重要，這個院長同意啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是，有的是生活的體驗跟接觸，有的是歷史的研究，是個別不同的價值。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，所以在歷史上，我們都必須傳承下去，才是正確的方向。"],["卓院長榮泰：可以瞭解的地方，是。"],["呂委員玉玲：講到這邊，接下來我要跟院長討論的就是我們的108課綱。108課綱上路以來到現在，在我們外界爭議非常的大，因為學生不瞭解，老師又疲於奔命，疲於在備課當中、準備很多的素材，我們要孩子適性揚才、要去多元選擇課程，但是他們的課業非常重，在這麼重的課業裡面要去尋求這些課綱、去做選擇，所以他們在黑暗中去尋找的時候，他們只得用賭的方式，如果中了、賭對了，他們就找到他們的興趣了，所以才會在外界來講，一直說108課綱都要好好的再討論，是不是？部長您上來了，你認為108課綱要討論嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，從教育基本法裡面，我們所期待的培養未來人才的一個圖像，事實上，那些基本能力、素養是沒有改變的，但是我也……"],["呂委員玉玲：沒有改變，但是我們需要的是專業的人士、專業的老師，但是我們專業人力不足的情況之下，我們很多老師就要去兼課，在兼課之下他疲於奔命，工作壓力變得更大，老師累，孩子也累啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：是，這個我想……"],["呂委員玉玲：是就要改變，該改就要去改吧！"],["鄭部長英耀：我同意委員，就是說我們在教育現場，確實怎麼樣去讓老師，他學了一個本科專業，能夠從專業裡面去指導、教導我們的……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你同意必須要專業的老師嘛！不能說他是兼課，他去備課、準備一大堆資料，這樣他的工作量增加了，壓力也變大了，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想應該跟委員報告，當時在所謂的委員關心的學習歷程檔案，確實當時就只有在那一年宣布的時候，只有那一年做政策的宣導，那我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：是，部長，本席要提醒你的就是，因為你的多元學習讓孩子選擇很多的項目，他沒有辦法在很多項目中找到自己的興趣，尤其我們對於考試才會求取比較需要的知識，所以用考試來準備他們要的知識，在這種情形之下，他變成會狹隘、狹窄在一個範圍裡面，就是因為要準備考試，所以接下來本席要跟你談的就是我們的學習歷程檔案，這個建檔的檔案裡面，在他們學習的過程中，3年的時間裡面他們要準備這個學習歷程檔案，但是他本身的課程就已經很多了，孩子們在這麼多課業繁雜當中，他們沒辦法也不了解，沒辦法準備，所以就變成了金錢的遊戲，為什麼這樣說？因為他要找補習班來教，找補習班來教的話又發生了一個問題，因為對弱勢而言，就會變得非常不公平！因為是金錢遊戲嘛！他們要用金錢去找補習班來教、他們要用金錢去找更多的課外活動，讓學習歷程檔案裡面更加豐富，結果這個歷程檔案做出來了，是他的興趣嗎？是他要的嗎？我們打了很大的問號！所以民眾才一直說必須要檢討改進！部長，要不要改？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，跟委員報告，確實我們也發現，誠如委員剛才所說，事實上也很清楚，學習歷程檔案對學生怎麼樣反思他自己生涯的探索，包括學習、興趣的培養，這都是好的，但是在推動的過程確實也出現、衍生了一些……"],["呂委員玉玲：因為他缺乏引導啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：所以這個部分……"],["呂委員玉玲：一般的課程裡面，他的學習壓力已經很大了，還要再準備這些資料，他沒有足夠的引導。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，今年暑假我們會加強這方面，不僅是高中三年級，我們會從高二、高一，到國中，甚至小學，我們開始去跟教育現場，包括跟家長……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你沒有聽到問題的癥結、問題的重要，因為你說從高中三年還不夠，還要到國中、還要到國小去？他們一般所有課程的準備，不管是雙語還是數理，對於這個教育，他們已經疲於奔命了，你還要讓他做這個學習檔案，他不知道怎麼去摸索，你的立意良善，要他找出他的興趣，而未來就是到大學入學的科系來看這些歷程檔案對不對？但是這些做出來的檔案、這些建檔的檔案，不一定是他的興趣、不一定就是他要的東西。部長，你有沒有瞭解這個癥結及重點所在？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們並不是要小學生開始去寫、國中生開始去寫，我們是從各級教育開始，讓他知道學習的……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以，部長，我才說必須要有充足的時間，他沒有充足的時間就找補習班去教，結果這些東西就客製化出來了，客製化出來的不是孩子們自己真正的東西，所以未來入學給各科系去看的時候並不是正確的，這樣對孩子不一定是好的。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們必須同等去檢討，該改的就改，不要讓老師疲於奔命，孩子也非常辛苦，孩子非常痛苦耶！"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員關心，但是我要利用這個機會跟委員報告，以臺大為例，我們看到透過推甄、透過學習歷程檔案，有更多的弱勢或者一般的學生進入到臺大，這個同時也是委員在關心的，我們希望減少第一線這些學生或者家長……他們不知道大學教授在看什麼，所以我想我們未來在這方面的溝通，我們會做更多的……"],["呂委員玉玲：部長，你的堅持，但是我們一定要為學校、為老師、為學生都好。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：我希望你去通盤檢討，該改的地方，我們去改，改一個適當的方式，讓孩子真的適性揚才，能夠學以致用，不要讓他們疲於奔命這麼辛苦，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們的目標、做法、想法都跟委員的想法是一致的。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，我們要努力，我們必須要通盤檢討，要去改。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，謝謝！"],["呂委員玉玲：接下來，本席想請教院長。院長，你會說客家話嗎？客家話是國家的通行語，聽得懂嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：抱歉！這個還要學習。"],["呂委員玉玲：還要學習？本席是客家妹，所以我們非常重視客家語言，因為現在我們的客語瀕臨滅絕，我們客家人在全臺灣統計上大概有450萬人，占所有總人口數第二大類，僅次於福佬人，我們看到客語要瀕臨滅絕了，院長，你雖然不會講客家話，但是你是政策的指導者，要怎麼做、要怎麼救呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒，客語也是臺灣的國家語言之一，我們在6月27號行政院會當中，已經就國家語言研究發展中心設置條例，我記得那天在討論的時候，現場很多的重點發言都在討論客家話，但是都不是用客語在表達，我當場還說……"],["呂委員玉玲：就必須要用客語。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是臺灣多元文化的一個珍貴。"],["呂委員玉玲：就像客委會的人都要會講客家話。"],["卓院長榮泰：他們當場還是用華語在處理。"],["呂委員玉玲：這個是精神指標，非常的重要！院長，109年的時候，我們的人口及住宅普查統計報告顯示客家族群大概有466萬人，但是使用客語的只有129萬人，不到三分之一，全國總人口數也不到三分之一。所以110年全國客家人口暨語言基礎資料調查研究報告顯示不管是聽的能力或說的能力都是下降的，尤其是60歲比較年長的家庭，使用客語的不到一成，如果是比較年輕的家庭，他們的語言能力就比較不佳了，在整個住的環境裡面，他就沒辦法去適用、去溝通、去講這個客家話，整個住宅的環境對客語非常不友善，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們會從各方面來加強，包括我剛剛說的國家語言研究發展中心，像現在設立之後，原住民族的各個語言、客語、臺語，包括馬祖語等等，都會是全力推動的項目，我也相信客語絕對是相當需要保存的，因為人口數確實是多。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，院長，雖然本土語言有放進108課綱裡，但是學習的人數還是下降，客語認證的人數雖然提高了，但是還是非常非常的少。剛剛院長特別提到設置條例，本來我們客家基本法的修正，本席都有提案，那時候就說我們客語要有發展研究中心，當初說基本法通過之後就要設立的，後來因為要設立了國家語言發展中心，你們說要等這個法通過，後來這個法通過了，又要等設置條例，從國家語言發展法107年通過到現在7年的時間，就為了等國家語言發展中心設置條例，我們等了7年，終於在上個月送進來了，我們很高興，以為國家語言發展中心可以跟客語發展中心併在一起來做，但是文化部次長李靜慧在記者會裡特別提到，國家語言研究發展中心會處理跨語言別、跨領域的研究，單一領域語言如客家話、原住民語要回歸原單位。院長、部長，客家語言基本法為了客語發展中心等了7年，等到今天的結果又說要回到原單位、回到客委會去，我們白等、白耗了7年的時間，讓我們的客語沒辦法發展。"],["卓院長榮泰：既然叫做國家語言研究發展中心……"],["呂委員玉玲：各個語言都算嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：國家語言的定義就非常清楚。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以客語要放進去啊！當時告訴我們說客語可以併進來，所以我們等了7年，結果現在設置條例通過了，又說要回到原單位，又繞回去原單位，讓我們客語的發展白白耗費了7年的時間。所以在這邊拜託院長，雖然你不會講客家話，但我相信你會支持客家的語言發展，不要讓它滅絕。現在這個設置條例已經通過了，趕快進行客語的研究發展，不要讓這個語言凋零，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們會讓研究發展中心將來很健全的發展，同時不只在這裡，我希望各個學校的教育，在適合的地區、地點，都應該把客語融入為一個教材。"],["呂委員玉玲：讓我們客語繼續傳承下去。","接下來本席要跟院長請教的就是龍科三期的進度，在前年的時候，前行政院院長蘇貞昌啟動了龍科三期，因為龍科前面有一期跟二期，都非常的成功，所以我們相信三期的推動是不會有問題的，但是當時因為土地徵收的範圍沒有確定，也跟地方疏於溝通，所以造成了很大的反彈，後來桃園市政府跟科管局、本席和地方慢慢的溝通，終於獲得了共識，雖然徵收土地的面積減少了，但是大家都樂觀其成，本席聽到行政院要來做溝通跟協調，請問協調了沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：請國科會。"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，我們新竹科學園區管理局跟桃園市政府現在正在溝通。"],["呂委員玉玲：我是聽說行政院要出面協調，那協調了嗎？現在有進度嗎？大概什麼時候？"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在桃園市政府在重新劃定範圍。"],["呂委員玉玲：範圍已經出來了？"],["吳主任委員誠文：還沒有出來，現在還在協調，因為還要遷校，包含龍德國小……"],["呂委員玉玲：是德龍國小。德龍國小剛好在這所有面積的中央，所以它一定要遷校。我們希望遷校的時候要遷到學區裡面，不要遷到北邊，北邊有另外一個學校，學區會重複。所以我們希望教育部和院長能照顧孩子們就近入學和學區的完整性，讓德龍國小可以往南邊遷移，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，這部分桃園市政府非常關心，所以他們正在協調。"],["呂委員玉玲：我有建議兩塊地方，土地都沒有問題了，希望能獲得科管局的支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個我們再向委員報告。"],["呂委員玉玲：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝！謝謝呂玉玲委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、各位官員的備詢。","接下來登記第3號張宏陸委員的質詢改書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員張宏陸書面質詢：","一、偏鄉學校餐費補助是否可提高？","(一)教育部及行政院農業委員會於110年至112年推行「推動偏鄉學校中央廚房計畫」，經費63.1億元，以提升偏鄉學校午餐品質。透過「提高食材補助」、「興建中央廚房」、「成立食材聯合採購聯盟」及「統籌人力及運送」四大策略，鼓勵使用本國在地食材，並解決偏鄉學校食材費用過低、不易聘請專業廚務人員等問題，讓孩童吃得更健康、更好，實乃立意良善之政策。教育部另有補助餐費，讓每位偏鄉及參與前述計畫之學生，每餐皆能享有62元的菜色，使用豐富多元之料理，精進午餐菜單，提供孩童均衡飲食。","(二)惟明（114）年調漲之國軍官兵伙食費，駐守本島之國軍官兵，每人每月伙食費自2,969元調增為3,487元，調增額度為518元；駐守離島之國軍官兵，每人每月伙食費自今年3,209元調增為3,817元，調增額度為608元。相較之下，我國針對偏鄉學生每餐補助之費用應有調整之必要。雖孩童與成年者之食量有異，但健康性不應因價錢而有異，在物價通膨之時代，應適度調整餐費補助。","(三)又依111年及112年教育部之「學年專業培育、偏遠地區教育、實驗教育及在學率概況提要分析」統計，111學年高級中等以下偏遠地區核定校數為1,204所，112學年則減少至1,199所。偏遠地區學校學生人數亦減少5,000多人。鑒於偏鄉學校數量及學生數量降低、上述孩童午餐與國軍官兵伙食費經費之差異以及物價通膨等因素，孩童每餐補助之經費是否得提高？且偏鄉學校之補助，是否得參照國軍官兵因駐守地不同、距離不同，而有不同經費額度？以此制定標準，針對偏遠程度不同，提供相應之經費補助，以積極落實孩童健康飲食之終極目標。","二、夏令營等校外活動之管理與監督應如何提升？","(一)暑假來臨，學生出遊或參加活動之機會增高，參加夏令營即為活動選擇之一。而依據教育部統計，111年之國中小學學生數量，約為178萬人次，若推估二十分之一人會參加夏令營，則等於約有9萬之國中小學生參加，再以夏令營未過夜之平均價，8千元推估，夏令營之商機約有7億元。","(二)惟夏令營目前無主管機關，營隊之教育品質或活動安全性，皆有重大疑慮。如113年4月，新聞曾報導，新竹某生態工作室長年舉辦兒少生態營隊，卻在112年爆發負責人性侵兒少事件，營隊期間連續2晚性侵4名學童，經過法院審理後，一審遭判3年8個月。而該負責人近日疑似已另起爐灶，再度開課招生，引發地方輿論譁然。","(三)針對夏令營管制問題，教育部曾提出將評估工作證制度，以落實保障兒少權益，請問現在評估進度？國外是否有相關規定？是否得以參照？若評估通過，在新政策落實以前，有無其他暫行替代手段，得優先監督並篩選夏令營等類似活動之活動計畫、活動人員資歷、安全維護等相關活動要件？","三、如何提升學習障礙者之保障？","(一)依據特殊教育法（下稱特教法）第三條可知，特殊教育身心障礙學生（下稱特教生）有多種類別，其中包含「學習障礙者」（下稱學障者）。112學年各級學校特教生為12萬4,548人，學障者則為4萬2,447人，占特教生比例34%，為所占比例最高項目，亦為10年來成長人數最多之類別。台灣針對學障者之鑑定標準較國外嚴格，據國外研究，學障比例介於人口數的5%至10%，故台灣相較國外，恐有低估學障者人數之憂慮。這些外表無法辨識、有學習障礙之學生，亦被稱作「隱形障礙者」。","(二)而屬於特教法適用之對象，並非同時屬於身心障礙者，並不受「身心障礙者權益保障法」（下稱身權法）等法律保障。即學障者係屬於特教法認定之某一身心障礙類別，並不當然屬於身權法第5條、第7條之可領有身心障礙證明之對象。在未來畢業求職之路途上，恐不利其就業機會，或其他身障者之福利保障。","(三)針對補足學障者之權益部分，勞動部於今年五月初放寬讓學障等特教生適用職務再設計，近期更預計再鬆綁職業輔導評量。請教教育部目前針對學障者數量逐年上升，有無進行分析並研析策進政策？學障者畢業前之職涯輔導有無特別規劃？又台灣評鑑學障者之標準是否需調整，以掌握最真實數量？以貫徹特教法之立法目的，使身心障礙國民均有接受適性及融合教育之權利。","四、速定營養午餐專法，降低營養午餐剩食率","(一)問題","1.根據媒體統計，六都近三年每天營養午餐平均廚餘量逾一公噸，新北去年日均廚餘量更達九點一公噸，占每日供應量百分之四點八，一年製造一八○○公噸廚餘。營養午餐居高不下的剩食率，不僅影響學生攝取營養，也造成備餐人員的壓力及處理廚餘的問題。","(二)要求","1.加強教育與宣導","營養教育：透過課程讓學生了解食品的珍貴和營養的重要性，從而減少浪費。學校可以舉辦專題講座或活動，強調食物浪費對環境和經濟的影響。","家庭教育：鼓勵家長在家中也進行相關教育，幫助孩子養成不浪費食物的習慣。","2.改善午餐供應系統","預測與調整供應量：利用數據分析工具來預測每天的需求，根據學生出席率和飲食偏好來調整供應量，減少過剩。","多樣化選擇：提供多種餐點選擇，讓學生可以根據自己的喜好選擇餐點，減少因不喜歡食物而造成的浪費。","靈活份量：允許學生選擇不同的份量，避免因標準份量過大而浪費。","3.優化食材管理","採購與儲存管理：改進食材的採購與儲存管理，確保食材的新鮮和使用效率。可以引入先進的庫存管理系統，避免食材過期。","廚餘再利用：設立廚餘回收站，將可再利用的廚餘轉化為堆肥，供學校菜園使用，或與有機農場合作，將廚餘轉化為動物飼料或堆肥。","4.加強監督與評估","廚餘統計與分析：定期統計並分析廚餘產生的原因和數量，找出主要浪費環節，制定針對性的改善措施。","績效評估：對學校的廚餘減少工作進行定期評估，設立獎懲機制，鼓勵學校積極參與廚餘減少活動。","5.社區與企業合作","企業支持：鼓勵企業參與學校午餐計劃，提供資金、技術支持，或推廣食物浪費減少的成功案例和技術。","社區參與：動員社區力量如志工，參與學校的廚餘管理和教育活動，形成全社會共同減少廚餘的氛圍。","五、提升代課教師基本待遇，提升教學環境","(一)問題","代課教師在教學現場亦擔負教學責任，允應思考如何提升其合理待遇，以利其專心教學品質。例如部分縣市代理教師年資不能累計，導致友代課教師二十多年間從未調薪。","(二)解決","2009年11月15日有新北代課教師聲請釋憲。憲法法庭於今年（2024）3月12日舉行此案的言詞辯論，最晚8月12日前宣判。教育部應盡快研擬釋憲後處理方式，例如未來新增預算等。"],["主席：第4位郭昱晴委員改書面質詢，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員郭昱晴書面質詢：","案由：本院委員郭昱晴有鑑於校園安全與學生輔導議題息息相關，教育部並於今年度針對校園霸凌事件提出新措施，將處理學生校園安全事件輔導機制提前置不良行為出現時，而現行三級輔導機制，未強化發展性輔導，針對第一線班級導師對學生輔導未考量其需要的時間與精力，綜觀學生輔導角度，不同間段學生問題並非相同，各級教師兼任班導師所需花時間不同，而各縣市班導師減課時數不一，是否影響到學生輔導權益，爰請行政院、教育部等相關部會重視相關議題，並提出改善方案。","說明：","一、教育部按照現行《學生輔導法》規定，持續增加輔導人力，並從原定120學年度提早至116學年度增加2,088名專輔教師，國中預計也在114學年度前增加53名專輔教師，大學則是已經補助預算降低人力比至1比900，也就是說900名學生會有1名專輔人力，原本則是1比1,200，但當初修正學生輔導法時尚未考量霸凌案件增加情況，從108年度霸凌案件通報案件為791件，12年暴增4倍至3,257件，再加入不良行為的輔導情況下，學校現場為如何兼顧學生輔導之品質，應再提高專輔人力，並考量偏鄉支援與負擔過重的問題。","二、現行的制度下，情緒障礙學生人數增加，但在財源不足的情況下，申請特教助理員時數時，會被排在中重症障礙學生之後，甚至完全沒有時數，對教師於授課時如有突發狀況難以應對，近期校園衝突案件多以情緒障礙情況為多，對此應提出具體改善措施，避免學生受教品質遭受影響。","三、再者，如學生障礙別未能申請全日特教助理員，家長如擔心學生在學校情況，只能申請入班，除學校不一定同意，即使入班也可能造成教師壓力，應提出相關配套措施。"],["主席：再接下來是登記第5位，請陳培瑜委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-20","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","羅明才","張智倫","涂權吉","沈發惠","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","謝龍介","謝衣鳯","林德福","吳秉叡","黃珊珊","丁學忠","呂玉玲","張宏陸","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","許智傑","林倩綺","葉元之"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-07-02"],"gazette_id":"1136401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136401_00004","1136401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第20次會議紀錄","content":"對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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653.341, \"end\": 653.481, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 653.481, \"end\": 653.881, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 653.881, \"end\": 654.501, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 654.501, \"end\": 654.961, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 654.961, \"end\": 655.122, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 655.122, \"end\": 655.242, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 655.242, \"end\": 655.262, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 655.262, \"end\": 655.282, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 680.134, \"end\": 702.637, \"text\": \"原住民族的各種語言,客語、台語,還有包括馬祖語等等,都會在裡面成為一個權力推動。我也相信客語絕對是相當重要保存的,因為人口數確實是多。是,院長,雖然在108課綱裡面本土語言裡有放進課綱,但是學習的人數還是下降。客語認證的人數雖然提高了,但是還是非常非常的少。那這一點就要請\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 680.134, \"end\": 680.334, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 680.334, \"end\": 680.494, 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"!\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,681 --> 00:00:12,682\n謝謝主席,請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。議員好。院長好。院長,你是行政院的大家長,也是家裡的家長。所以我想請教你,你為人父母,那你的兒女在小時候的時候,你是不是一定有跟他講一些小故事?\n\n2\n00:00:37,904 --> 00:01:02,066\n所以我請教院長你知不知道大雨治水?所以本席想問院長你知道是大雨治水那為什麼現在大雨治水會被討論呢?最重要就是媒體報導出來有一個家長跟孩子來分享這個大雨治水的故事但是他這個高中的孩子卻不知道大雨治水\n\n3\n00:01:02,746 --> 00:01:22,464\n結果被研上了,那因為大家都認為說大禹治水是個神話,那這個神話你與其去了解大禹治水,你不如去了解這個八田禹醫喔,那說到這邊我就要請教院長,你認為八田禹醫跟大禹治水哪一個重要?\n\n4\n00:01:23,851 --> 00:01:24,191\n您的意思是哪個重要?\n\n5\n00:01:52,847 --> 00:01:53,007\n﹚呂玉玲\n\n6\n00:02:13,603 --> 00:02:34,613\n講到這邊就表示八天雨一跟大雨治水是一樣的重要,這個院長同意了。有的是生活的體驗跟接觸,有的是歷史的研究。所以在歷史上我們都必須去傳承下去,才是正確的方向。所以講到這邊接下來我就要跟院長來討論的就是我們108課綱。\n\n7\n00:02:38,115 --> 00:02:59,028\n這個108課綱在上路以來到現在在我們外界這個爭議非常的大因為學生不了解老師又疲於奔命疲於在這個備課當中在準備很多的素材我們要孩子在他們適性養材要去多元選擇課程但是他們課業非常的重在這麼重的課業裡面要去尋求這些課綱去選擇\n\n8\n00:03:03,511 --> 00:03:20,961\n所以他們在黑暗中去尋索的時候他們只得用賭的方式如果中了中去賭了對了他們就找到他們的興趣了所以才會在外界來講一直說108課綱都要好好的來再討論是不是部長您上來了您認為108課綱要討論嗎\n\n9\n00:03:24,807 --> 00:03:40,072\n跟委員報告事實上從我們這個教育基本法裡邊我們所期待的培養未來的人才的一個圖像事實上那些基本能力這個素養事實上是沒有改變的\n\n10\n00:03:40,692 --> 00:03:59,549\n沒有改變,但是我們需要的是專業的人士,專業的老師。但是我們專業人力不足的情況之下,我們很多老師就要去監課。監課下他疲於奔命,工作壓力變得更大,老師累,孩子也累啊。是,這個我想...是就要改變了,該改就要去改吧。\n\n11\n00:04:00,305 --> 00:04:19,027\n我同意委員就是說我們在教育現場確實怎麼樣去讓老師他學的一個本科專業能夠從專業裡面去指導所以你同意說必須要專業的老師嗎不能說他是兼課他去備課準備一大堆的資料這樣子他工作量增加了壓力也變大了\n\n12\n00:04:19,548 --> 00:04:21,009\n部長,我現在提醒你就是因為你的多元學習\n\n13\n00:04:39,261 --> 00:04:39,281\n﹚呂玲\n\n14\n00:05:09,420 --> 00:05:28,086\n他們要準備這個學習歷程檔案但是他本身的課程就已經很多了那孩子們在這麼多課業反省當中他們沒辦法也不了解沒辦法準備所以就變成了這個是金錢的遊戲為什麼這樣說因為他要找補習班來教找補習班來教的話又發生了一個問題因為我們針對於弱勢會變成非常的不公平\n\n15\n00:05:36,189 --> 00:05:58,785\n因為是金錢遊戲嘛。他沒用金錢去準備補習班來教。他沒用金錢去找更多的課外活動。讓他的那個學習那個歷程檔案裡面更加的豐富。結果這個歷程檔案做出來了。是他的興趣嗎?是他要的嗎?我們打了很大的問號。所以外界、所以民眾還一直說必須要檢討改進。\n\n16\n00:06:00,930 --> 00:06:01,170\n因為他缺乏引導阿!\n\n17\n00:06:22,805 --> 00:06:39,554\n所以這一個部分我們也跟委員報告我們從青年暑假我們會加強這一方面不僅是高中三年級我們會到高二、高一、到國中甚至小學我們開始去跟教育現場包括跟家長分享\n\n18\n00:06:41,935 --> 00:07:00,947\n問題的癥結問題的重要因為你說從高中三年還不夠還要到國中還要到國小去他們一般說準備課的不管是雙女還是數女這個教育他們已經疲於奔命了你還要給他這個學習檔案他不是要怎麼去摸索你的利益良善要他找出他的興趣\n\n19\n00:07:01,627 --> 00:07:01,827\n所以部長我才說\n\n20\n00:07:27,062 --> 00:07:27,082\n拜訪議員\n\n21\n00:07:54,431 --> 00:08:20,258\n感謝委員的關心但是我要利用這個機會跟委員報告以臺大為例我們看到那一些透過推生透過這個學歷程檔案有更多的弱勢或者一般的學生他進入到臺大那這一個也是同時委員在關心的我們希望減少這個地線上這些學生或者家長他們不知道大學的教授他們在看什麼\n\n22\n00:08:21,138 --> 00:08:49,733\n所以我想我們在未來在這個溝通我們會...部長你的堅持但是我們一定要為學校為老師為學生都好我希望你出去通盤檢討該改的地方我們去改改一個適當的方式讓孩子真的適性洋財能夠學以致用不要讓他們疲於奔命那麼辛苦好不好好我們要努力我們又必須要通盤檢討要去改那接下來本席想請教\n\n23\n00:08:51,554 --> 00:09:20,129\n院長,你不要說學法嗎?學法是國家的通行語,你懂嗎?抱歉,這個還要學習。還要學習。本身是客家妹,所以我們非常重視客家語言。因為現在我們的客語瀕臨這個滅絕了,那我們客家人在全台灣來統計上大概有450萬人,但佔我們所有的\n\n24\n00:09:21,474 --> 00:09:38,004\n總人口數是第二大類的客家人,僅次於福老人。我們看到客語要頻頻滅絕了。院長,你雖然不會講客家話,但是你是政策的指導者,要怎麼做,要怎麼救呢?\n\n25\n00:09:39,763 --> 00:09:52,194\n謝謝委員的提醒克語也是台灣的國家語言之一我們在6月27號行政院會當中已經就國家語言研究發展中心的設置條例我記得那天在討論的時候現場\n\n26\n00:09:54,645 --> 00:09:55,526\n這非常重要啦。\n\n27\n00:10:13,188 --> 00:10:30,293\n議員長,109年的時候,我們人口跟我們住宅的普查報告,我們大概有客家族群有466萬人,但是使用客語的只有129萬人,不到三分之一,不到三分之一。那在全國來,總人口數也不到三分之一。\n\n28\n00:10:31,693 --> 00:10:51,560\n所以在110年全國客家人口進行我們語言的基礎資料的研究報告出來不管是聽的能力說的能力都是下降的尤其是在未到60歲的這個比較年長的家庭裡面他使用客語的不到一成\n\n29\n00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,282\n所以我們會從各方面來加強,包括剛剛說的國家語言研究發展中心,像這個設立之後\n\n30\n00:11:20,134 --> 00:11:42,637\n原住民族的各種語言,客語、台語,還有包括馬祖語等等,都會在裡面成為一個權力推動。我也相信客語絕對是相當重要保存的,因為人口數確實是多。是,院長,雖然在108課綱裡面本土語言裡有放進課綱,但是學習的人數還是下降。客語認證的人數雖然提高了,但是還是非常非常的少。那這一點就要請\n\n31\n00:12:08,357 --> 00:12:29,999\n一百零七年的時候到現在七年的時間就為等國家語言發展中心的設置條例我們等了七年現在終於在上個月送進來了送進來了我們很高興說我們可以國家語言發展中心跟客語的發展中心可以併在一起來做但是文化部文化部的次長\n\n32\n00:12:33,052 --> 00:12:54,694\n文化部的次長李敬惠他在記者會裡面特別提到說這個國家語言研究發展中心會處理跨語言別跨領域的研究單一語言但是客家化原住民要回原單位院長部長\n\n33\n00:12:57,882 --> 00:13:25,078\n國家語言基本法為了客語發展中心等了7年等到今天的結果又說要回到原單位回到客委會去我們白等白耗了白耗了這7年的時間讓我們客語沒辦法去發展嗎既然叫做國家語言研究發展中心那國家語言各個語言都算嘛國家語言的定義就非常清楚所以客語要放進去啊當時告訴我們說客語就可以併進來所以我們等了7年\n\n34\n00:13:25,950 --> 00:13:43,246\n結果現在設置條例通過了就是說又回到原單位又繞回去原單位讓我們客語的發展白白耗費了這7年的時間所以在這邊拜託院長雖然你不會講客家話我相信你會支持客家的語言的發展不要讓它滅絕\n\n35\n00:13:44,427 --> 00:14:04,426\n現在這個設置條例已經通過了趕快把我們刻意的研究發展不要讓這語言來做一個凋零的情形發生好不好我們會讓這個研究發展中心將來很健全的發展同時不只在這裡我希望各個學校的教育適合的地區地點都應該把刻意融入成一個教材讓我們刻意繼續傳送下去\n\n36\n00:14:06,408 --> 00:14:25,909\n接下來本席要跟院長請教的就是說我們龍科三期的進度因為這個在前年的時候在前行政院長蘇貞昌啟動了龍科三期因為龍科三期前面有一期跟二期這個都非常的成功所以我們相信三期的推動是不會有問題的\n\n37\n00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:48,189\n但是當時因為這個土地徵收的範圍沒有確定性也跟地方疏於溝通所以造成了一個很大的反彈那後來呢桃園市政府跟我們柯管局跟本溪跟地方慢慢的溝通終於獲得到共識了雖然是徵收土地的範圍面積減少了但是\n\n38\n00:14:48,809 --> 00:15:10,514\n大家都樂觀其成,所以大概是本席聽到,聽到說我們行政院要來做溝通跟協調,請問協調了沒有?報告委員,我們新竹科學人氣管理局跟桃園市政府現在正在...我是聽說行政院要出面協調嘛,那協調了嗎?現在有進度嗎?大概什麼時候?現在桃園市政府在重新劃定範圍,因為看...範圍已經出來了?\n\n39\n00:15:18,643 --> 00:15:19,083\n德隆國小\n\n40\n00:15:30,885 --> 00:15:31,505\n所以他們正在選票\n\n41\n00:15:59,577 --> 00:15:59,597\n好!謝謝!\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9681\t12682\t謝謝主席,請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。議員好。院長好。院長,你是行政院的大家長,也是家裡的家長。所以我想請教你,你為人父母,那你的兒女在小時候的時候,你是不是一定有跟他講一些小故事?\n37904\t62066\t所以我請教院長你知不知道大雨治水?所以本席想問院長你知道是大雨治水那為什麼現在大雨治水會被討論呢?最重要就是媒體報導出來有一個家長跟孩子來分享這個大雨治水的故事但是他這個高中的孩子卻不知道大雨治水\n62746\t82464\t結果被研上了,那因為大家都認為說大禹治水是個神話,那這個神話你與其去了解大禹治水,你不如去了解這個八田禹醫喔,那說到這邊我就要請教院長,你認為八田禹醫跟大禹治水哪一個重要?\n83851\t84191\t您的意思是哪個重要?\n112847\t113007\t﹚呂玉玲\n133603\t154613\t講到這邊就表示八天雨一跟大雨治水是一樣的重要,這個院長同意了。有的是生活的體驗跟接觸,有的是歷史的研究。所以在歷史上我們都必須去傳承下去,才是正確的方向。所以講到這邊接下來我就要跟院長來討論的就是我們108課綱。\n158115\t179028\t這個108課綱在上路以來到現在在我們外界這個爭議非常的大因為學生不了解老師又疲於奔命疲於在這個備課當中在準備很多的素材我們要孩子在他們適性養材要去多元選擇課程但是他們課業非常的重在這麼重的課業裡面要去尋求這些課綱去選擇\n183511\t200961\t所以他們在黑暗中去尋索的時候他們只得用賭的方式如果中了中去賭了對了他們就找到他們的興趣了所以才會在外界來講一直說108課綱都要好好的來再討論是不是部長您上來了您認為108課綱要討論嗎\n204807\t220072\t跟委員報告事實上從我們這個教育基本法裡邊我們所期待的培養未來的人才的一個圖像事實上那些基本能力這個素養事實上是沒有改變的\n220692\t239549\t沒有改變,但是我們需要的是專業的人士,專業的老師。但是我們專業人力不足的情況之下,我們很多老師就要去監課。監課下他疲於奔命,工作壓力變得更大,老師累,孩子也累啊。是,這個我想...是就要改變了,該改就要去改吧。\n240305\t259027\t我同意委員就是說我們在教育現場確實怎麼樣去讓老師他學的一個本科專業能夠從專業裡面去指導所以你同意說必須要專業的老師嗎不能說他是兼課他去備課準備一大堆的資料這樣子他工作量增加了壓力也變大了\n259548\t261009\t部長,我現在提醒你就是因為你的多元學習\n279261\t279281\t﹚呂玲\n309420\t328086\t他們要準備這個學習歷程檔案但是他本身的課程就已經很多了那孩子們在這麼多課業反省當中他們沒辦法也不了解沒辦法準備所以就變成了這個是金錢的遊戲為什麼這樣說因為他要找補習班來教找補習班來教的話又發生了一個問題因為我們針對於弱勢會變成非常的不公平\n336189\t358785\t因為是金錢遊戲嘛。他沒用金錢去準備補習班來教。他沒用金錢去找更多的課外活動。讓他的那個學習那個歷程檔案裡面更加的豐富。結果這個歷程檔案做出來了。是他的興趣嗎?是他要的嗎?我們打了很大的問號。所以外界、所以民眾還一直說必須要檢討改進。\n360930\t361170\t因為他缺乏引導阿!\n382805\t399554\t所以這一個部分我們也跟委員報告我們從青年暑假我們會加強這一方面不僅是高中三年級我們會到高二、高一、到國中甚至小學我們開始去跟教育現場包括跟家長分享\n401935\t420947\t問題的癥結問題的重要因為你說從高中三年還不夠還要到國中還要到國小去他們一般說準備課的不管是雙女還是數女這個教育他們已經疲於奔命了你還要給他這個學習檔案他不是要怎麼去摸索你的利益良善要他找出他的興趣\n421627\t421827\t所以部長我才說\n447062\t447082\t拜訪議員\n474431\t500258\t感謝委員的關心但是我要利用這個機會跟委員報告以臺大為例我們看到那一些透過推生透過這個學歷程檔案有更多的弱勢或者一般的學生他進入到臺大那這一個也是同時委員在關心的我們希望減少這個地線上這些學生或者家長他們不知道大學的教授他們在看什麼\n501138\t529733\t所以我想我們在未來在這個溝通我們會...部長你的堅持但是我們一定要為學校為老師為學生都好我希望你出去通盤檢討該改的地方我們去改改一個適當的方式讓孩子真的適性洋財能夠學以致用不要讓他們疲於奔命那麼辛苦好不好好我們要努力我們又必須要通盤檢討要去改那接下來本席想請教\n531554\t560129\t院長,你不要說學法嗎?學法是國家的通行語,你懂嗎?抱歉,這個還要學習。還要學習。本身是客家妹,所以我們非常重視客家語言。因為現在我們的客語瀕臨這個滅絕了,那我們客家人在全台灣來統計上大概有450萬人,但佔我們所有的\n561474\t578004\t總人口數是第二大類的客家人,僅次於福老人。我們看到客語要頻頻滅絕了。院長,你雖然不會講客家話,但是你是政策的指導者,要怎麼做,要怎麼救呢?\n579763\t592194\t謝謝委員的提醒克語也是台灣的國家語言之一我們在6月27號行政院會當中已經就國家語言研究發展中心的設置條例我記得那天在討論的時候現場\n594645\t595526\t這非常重要啦。\n613188\t630293\t議員長,109年的時候,我們人口跟我們住宅的普查報告,我們大概有客家族群有466萬人,但是使用客語的只有129萬人,不到三分之一,不到三分之一。那在全國來,總人口數也不到三分之一。\n631693\t651560\t所以在110年全國客家人口進行我們語言的基礎資料的研究報告出來不管是聽的能力說的能力都是下降的尤其是在未到60歲的這個比較年長的家庭裡面他使用客語的不到一成\n652000\t655282\t所以我們會從各方面來加強,包括剛剛說的國家語言研究發展中心,像這個設立之後\n680134\t702637\t原住民族的各種語言,客語、台語,還有包括馬祖語等等,都會在裡面成為一個權力推動。我也相信客語絕對是相當重要保存的,因為人口數確實是多。是,院長,雖然在108課綱裡面本土語言裡有放進課綱,但是學習的人數還是下降。客語認證的人數雖然提高了,但是還是非常非常的少。那這一點就要請\n703097\t728217\t﹚議員\n728357\t749999\t一百零七年的時候到現在七年的時間就為等國家語言發展中心的設置條例我們等了七年現在終於在上個月送進來了送進來了我們很高興說我們可以國家語言發展中心跟客語的發展中心可以併在一起來做但是文化部文化部的次長\n753052\t774694\t文化部的次長李敬惠他在記者會裡面特別提到說這個國家語言研究發展中心會處理跨語言別跨領域的研究單一語言但是客家化原住民要回原單位院長部長\n777882\t805078\t國家語言基本法為了客語發展中心等了7年等到今天的結果又說要回到原單位回到客委會去我們白等白耗了白耗了這7年的時間讓我們客語沒辦法去發展嗎既然叫做國家語言研究發展中心那國家語言各個語言都算嘛國家語言的定義就非常清楚所以客語要放進去啊當時告訴我們說客語就可以併進來所以我們等了7年\n805950\t823246\t結果現在設置條例通過了就是說又回到原單位又繞回去原單位讓我們客語的發展白白耗費了這7年的時間所以在這邊拜託院長雖然你不會講客家話我相信你會支持客家的語言的發展不要讓它滅絕\n824427\t844426\t現在這個設置條例已經通過了趕快把我們刻意的研究發展不要讓這語言來做一個凋零的情形發生好不好我們會讓這個研究發展中心將來很健全的發展同時不只在這裡我希望各個學校的教育適合的地區地點都應該把刻意融入成一個教材讓我們刻意繼續傳送下去\n846408\t865909\t接下來本席要跟院長請教的就是說我們龍科三期的進度因為這個在前年的時候在前行政院長蘇貞昌啟動了龍科三期因為龍科三期前面有一期跟二期這個都非常的成功所以我們相信三期的推動是不會有問題的\n866870\t888189\t但是當時因為這個土地徵收的範圍沒有確定性也跟地方疏於溝通所以造成了一個很大的反彈那後來呢桃園市政府跟我們柯管局跟本溪跟地方慢慢的溝通終於獲得到共識了雖然是徵收土地的範圍面積減少了但是\n888809\t910514\t大家都樂觀其成,所以大概是本席聽到,聽到說我們行政院要來做溝通跟協調,請問協調了沒有?報告委員,我們新竹科學人氣管理局跟桃園市政府現在正在...我是聽說行政院要出面協調嘛,那協調了嗎?現在有進度嗎?大概什麼時候?現在桃園市政府在重新劃定範圍,因為看...範圍已經出來了?\n918643\t919083\t德隆國小\n930885\t931505\t所以他們正在選票\n959577\t959597\t好!謝謝!\n","txt":"謝謝主席,請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。議員好。院長好。院長,你是行政院的大家長,也是家裡的家長。所以我想請教你,你為人父母,那你的兒女在小時候的時候,你是不是一定有跟他講一些小故事?\n所以我請教院長你知不知道大雨治水?所以本席想問院長你知道是大雨治水那為什麼現在大雨治水會被討論呢?最重要就是媒體報導出來有一個家長跟孩子來分享這個大雨治水的故事但是他這個高中的孩子卻不知道大雨治水\n結果被研上了,那因為大家都認為說大禹治水是個神話,那這個神話你與其去了解大禹治水,你不如去了解這個八田禹醫喔,那說到這邊我就要請教院長,你認為八田禹醫跟大禹治水哪一個重要?\n您的意思是哪個重要?\n﹚呂玉玲\n講到這邊就表示八天雨一跟大雨治水是一樣的重要,這個院長同意了。有的是生活的體驗跟接觸,有的是歷史的研究。所以在歷史上我們都必須去傳承下去,才是正確的方向。所以講到這邊接下來我就要跟院長來討論的就是我們108課綱。\n這個108課綱在上路以來到現在在我們外界這個爭議非常的大因為學生不了解老師又疲於奔命疲於在這個備課當中在準備很多的素材我們要孩子在他們適性養材要去多元選擇課程但是他們課業非常的重在這麼重的課業裡面要去尋求這些課綱去選擇\n所以他們在黑暗中去尋索的時候他們只得用賭的方式如果中了中去賭了對了他們就找到他們的興趣了所以才會在外界來講一直說108課綱都要好好的來再討論是不是部長您上來了您認為108課綱要討論嗎\n跟委員報告事實上從我們這個教育基本法裡邊我們所期待的培養未來的人才的一個圖像事實上那些基本能力這個素養事實上是沒有改變的\n沒有改變,但是我們需要的是專業的人士,專業的老師。但是我們專業人力不足的情況之下,我們很多老師就要去監課。監課下他疲於奔命,工作壓力變得更大,老師累,孩子也累啊。是,這個我想...是就要改變了,該改就要去改吧。\n我同意委員就是說我們在教育現場確實怎麼樣去讓老師他學的一個本科專業能夠從專業裡面去指導所以你同意說必須要專業的老師嗎不能說他是兼課他去備課準備一大堆的資料這樣子他工作量增加了壓力也變大了\n部長,我現在提醒你就是因為你的多元學習\n﹚呂玲\n他們要準備這個學習歷程檔案但是他本身的課程就已經很多了那孩子們在這麼多課業反省當中他們沒辦法也不了解沒辦法準備所以就變成了這個是金錢的遊戲為什麼這樣說因為他要找補習班來教找補習班來教的話又發生了一個問題因為我們針對於弱勢會變成非常的不公平\n因為是金錢遊戲嘛。他沒用金錢去準備補習班來教。他沒用金錢去找更多的課外活動。讓他的那個學習那個歷程檔案裡面更加的豐富。結果這個歷程檔案做出來了。是他的興趣嗎?是他要的嗎?我們打了很大的問號。所以外界、所以民眾還一直說必須要檢討改進。\n因為他缺乏引導阿!\n所以這一個部分我們也跟委員報告我們從青年暑假我們會加強這一方面不僅是高中三年級我們會到高二、高一、到國中甚至小學我們開始去跟教育現場包括跟家長分享\n問題的癥結問題的重要因為你說從高中三年還不夠還要到國中還要到國小去他們一般說準備課的不管是雙女還是數女這個教育他們已經疲於奔命了你還要給他這個學習檔案他不是要怎麼去摸索你的利益良善要他找出他的興趣\n所以部長我才說\n拜訪議員\n感謝委員的關心但是我要利用這個機會跟委員報告以臺大為例我們看到那一些透過推生透過這個學歷程檔案有更多的弱勢或者一般的學生他進入到臺大那這一個也是同時委員在關心的我們希望減少這個地線上這些學生或者家長他們不知道大學的教授他們在看什麼\n所以我想我們在未來在這個溝通我們會...部長你的堅持但是我們一定要為學校為老師為學生都好我希望你出去通盤檢討該改的地方我們去改改一個適當的方式讓孩子真的適性洋財能夠學以致用不要讓他們疲於奔命那麼辛苦好不好好我們要努力我們又必須要通盤檢討要去改那接下來本席想請教\n院長,你不要說學法嗎?學法是國家的通行語,你懂嗎?抱歉,這個還要學習。還要學習。本身是客家妹,所以我們非常重視客家語言。因為現在我們的客語瀕臨這個滅絕了,那我們客家人在全台灣來統計上大概有450萬人,但佔我們所有的\n總人口數是第二大類的客家人,僅次於福老人。我們看到客語要頻頻滅絕了。院長,你雖然不會講客家話,但是你是政策的指導者,要怎麼做,要怎麼救呢?\n謝謝委員的提醒克語也是台灣的國家語言之一我們在6月27號行政院會當中已經就國家語言研究發展中心的設置條例我記得那天在討論的時候現場\n這非常重要啦。\n議員長,109年的時候,我們人口跟我們住宅的普查報告,我們大概有客家族群有466萬人,但是使用客語的只有129萬人,不到三分之一,不到三分之一。那在全國來,總人口數也不到三分之一。\n所以在110年全國客家人口進行我們語言的基礎資料的研究報告出來不管是聽的能力說的能力都是下降的尤其是在未到60歲的這個比較年長的家庭裡面他使用客語的不到一成\n所以我們會從各方面來加強,包括剛剛說的國家語言研究發展中心,像這個設立之後\n原住民族的各種語言,客語、台語,還有包括馬祖語等等,都會在裡面成為一個權力推動。我也相信客語絕對是相當重要保存的,因為人口數確實是多。是,院長,雖然在108課綱裡面本土語言裡有放進課綱,但是學習的人數還是下降。客語認證的人數雖然提高了,但是還是非常非常的少。那這一點就要請\n﹚議員\n一百零七年的時候到現在七年的時間就為等國家語言發展中心的設置條例我們等了七年現在終於在上個月送進來了送進來了我們很高興說我們可以國家語言發展中心跟客語的發展中心可以併在一起來做但是文化部文化部的次長\n文化部的次長李敬惠他在記者會裡面特別提到說這個國家語言研究發展中心會處理跨語言別跨領域的研究單一語言但是客家化原住民要回原單位院長部長\n國家語言基本法為了客語發展中心等了7年等到今天的結果又說要回到原單位回到客委會去我們白等白耗了白耗了這7年的時間讓我們客語沒辦法去發展嗎既然叫做國家語言研究發展中心那國家語言各個語言都算嘛國家語言的定義就非常清楚所以客語要放進去啊當時告訴我們說客語就可以併進來所以我們等了7年\n結果現在設置條例通過了就是說又回到原單位又繞回去原單位讓我們客語的發展白白耗費了這7年的時間所以在這邊拜託院長雖然你不會講客家話我相信你會支持客家的語言的發展不要讓它滅絕\n現在這個設置條例已經通過了趕快把我們刻意的研究發展不要讓這語言來做一個凋零的情形發生好不好我們會讓這個研究發展中心將來很健全的發展同時不只在這裡我希望各個學校的教育適合的地區地點都應該把刻意融入成一個教材讓我們刻意繼續傳送下去\n接下來本席要跟院長請教的就是說我們龍科三期的進度因為這個在前年的時候在前行政院長蘇貞昌啟動了龍科三期因為龍科三期前面有一期跟二期這個都非常的成功所以我們相信三期的推動是不會有問題的\n但是當時因為這個土地徵收的範圍沒有確定性也跟地方疏於溝通所以造成了一個很大的反彈那後來呢桃園市政府跟我們柯管局跟本溪跟地方慢慢的溝通終於獲得到共識了雖然是徵收土地的範圍面積減少了但是\n大家都樂觀其成,所以大概是本席聽到,聽到說我們行政院要來做溝通跟協調,請問協調了沒有?報告委員,我們新竹科學人氣管理局跟桃園市政府現在正在...我是聽說行政院要出面協調嘛,那協調了嗎?現在有進度嗎?大概什麼時候?現在桃園市政府在重新劃定範圍,因為看...範圍已經出來了?\n德隆國小\n所以他們正在選票\n好!謝謝!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.681 --> 00:12.682\n謝謝主席,請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。議員好。院長好。院長,你是行政院的大家長,也是家裡的家長。所以我想請教你,你為人父母,那你的兒女在小時候的時候,你是不是一定有跟他講一些小故事?\n\n00:37.904 --> 01:02.066\n所以我請教院長你知不知道大雨治水?所以本席想問院長你知道是大雨治水那為什麼現在大雨治水會被討論呢?最重要就是媒體報導出來有一個家長跟孩子來分享這個大雨治水的故事但是他這個高中的孩子卻不知道大雨治水\n\n01:02.746 --> 01:22.464\n結果被研上了,那因為大家都認為說大禹治水是個神話,那這個神話你與其去了解大禹治水,你不如去了解這個八田禹醫喔,那說到這邊我就要請教院長,你認為八田禹醫跟大禹治水哪一個重要?\n\n01:23.851 --> 01:24.191\n您的意思是哪個重要?\n\n01:52.847 --> 01:53.007\n﹚呂玉玲\n\n02:13.603 --> 02:34.613\n講到這邊就表示八天雨一跟大雨治水是一樣的重要,這個院長同意了。有的是生活的體驗跟接觸,有的是歷史的研究。所以在歷史上我們都必須去傳承下去,才是正確的方向。所以講到這邊接下來我就要跟院長來討論的就是我們108課綱。\n\n02:38.115 --> 02:59.028\n這個108課綱在上路以來到現在在我們外界這個爭議非常的大因為學生不了解老師又疲於奔命疲於在這個備課當中在準備很多的素材我們要孩子在他們適性養材要去多元選擇課程但是他們課業非常的重在這麼重的課業裡面要去尋求這些課綱去選擇\n\n03:03.511 --> 03:20.961\n所以他們在黑暗中去尋索的時候他們只得用賭的方式如果中了中去賭了對了他們就找到他們的興趣了所以才會在外界來講一直說108課綱都要好好的來再討論是不是部長您上來了您認為108課綱要討論嗎\n\n03:24.807 --> 03:40.072\n跟委員報告事實上從我們這個教育基本法裡邊我們所期待的培養未來的人才的一個圖像事實上那些基本能力這個素養事實上是沒有改變的\n\n03:40.692 --> 03:59.549\n沒有改變,但是我們需要的是專業的人士,專業的老師。但是我們專業人力不足的情況之下,我們很多老師就要去監課。監課下他疲於奔命,工作壓力變得更大,老師累,孩子也累啊。是,這個我想...是就要改變了,該改就要去改吧。\n\n04:00.305 --> 04:19.027\n我同意委員就是說我們在教育現場確實怎麼樣去讓老師他學的一個本科專業能夠從專業裡面去指導所以你同意說必須要專業的老師嗎不能說他是兼課他去備課準備一大堆的資料這樣子他工作量增加了壓力也變大了\n\n04:19.548 --> 04:21.009\n部長,我現在提醒你就是因為你的多元學習\n\n04:39.261 --> 04:39.281\n﹚呂玲\n\n05:09.420 --> 05:28.086\n他們要準備這個學習歷程檔案但是他本身的課程就已經很多了那孩子們在這麼多課業反省當中他們沒辦法也不了解沒辦法準備所以就變成了這個是金錢的遊戲為什麼這樣說因為他要找補習班來教找補習班來教的話又發生了一個問題因為我們針對於弱勢會變成非常的不公平\n\n05:36.189 --> 05:58.785\n因為是金錢遊戲嘛。他沒用金錢去準備補習班來教。他沒用金錢去找更多的課外活動。讓他的那個學習那個歷程檔案裡面更加的豐富。結果這個歷程檔案做出來了。是他的興趣嗎?是他要的嗎?我們打了很大的問號。所以外界、所以民眾還一直說必須要檢討改進。\n\n06:00.930 --> 06:01.170\n因為他缺乏引導阿!\n\n06:22.805 --> 06:39.554\n所以這一個部分我們也跟委員報告我們從青年暑假我們會加強這一方面不僅是高中三年級我們會到高二、高一、到國中甚至小學我們開始去跟教育現場包括跟家長分享\n\n06:41.935 --> 07:00.947\n問題的癥結問題的重要因為你說從高中三年還不夠還要到國中還要到國小去他們一般說準備課的不管是雙女還是數女這個教育他們已經疲於奔命了你還要給他這個學習檔案他不是要怎麼去摸索你的利益良善要他找出他的興趣\n\n07:01.627 --> 07:01.827\n所以部長我才說\n\n07:27.062 --> 07:27.082\n拜訪議員\n\n07:54.431 --> 08:20.258\n感謝委員的關心但是我要利用這個機會跟委員報告以臺大為例我們看到那一些透過推生透過這個學歷程檔案有更多的弱勢或者一般的學生他進入到臺大那這一個也是同時委員在關心的我們希望減少這個地線上這些學生或者家長他們不知道大學的教授他們在看什麼\n\n08:21.138 --> 08:49.733\n所以我想我們在未來在這個溝通我們會...部長你的堅持但是我們一定要為學校為老師為學生都好我希望你出去通盤檢討該改的地方我們去改改一個適當的方式讓孩子真的適性洋財能夠學以致用不要讓他們疲於奔命那麼辛苦好不好好我們要努力我們又必須要通盤檢討要去改那接下來本席想請教\n\n08:51.554 --> 09:20.129\n院長,你不要說學法嗎?學法是國家的通行語,你懂嗎?抱歉,這個還要學習。還要學習。本身是客家妹,所以我們非常重視客家語言。因為現在我們的客語瀕臨這個滅絕了,那我們客家人在全台灣來統計上大概有450萬人,但佔我們所有的\n\n09:21.474 --> 09:38.004\n總人口數是第二大類的客家人,僅次於福老人。我們看到客語要頻頻滅絕了。院長,你雖然不會講客家話,但是你是政策的指導者,要怎麼做,要怎麼救呢?\n\n09:39.763 --> 09:52.194\n謝謝委員的提醒克語也是台灣的國家語言之一我們在6月27號行政院會當中已經就國家語言研究發展中心的設置條例我記得那天在討論的時候現場\n\n09:54.645 --> 09:55.526\n這非常重要啦。\n\n10:13.188 --> 10:30.293\n議員長,109年的時候,我們人口跟我們住宅的普查報告,我們大概有客家族群有466萬人,但是使用客語的只有129萬人,不到三分之一,不到三分之一。那在全國來,總人口數也不到三分之一。\n\n10:31.693 --> 10:51.560\n所以在110年全國客家人口進行我們語言的基礎資料的研究報告出來不管是聽的能力說的能力都是下降的尤其是在未到60歲的這個比較年長的家庭裡面他使用客語的不到一成\n\n10:52.000 --> 10:55.282\n所以我們會從各方面來加強,包括剛剛說的國家語言研究發展中心,像這個設立之後\n\n11:20.134 --> 11:42.637\n原住民族的各種語言,客語、台語,還有包括馬祖語等等,都會在裡面成為一個權力推動。我也相信客語絕對是相當重要保存的,因為人口數確實是多。是,院長,雖然在108課綱裡面本土語言裡有放進課綱,但是學習的人數還是下降。客語認證的人數雖然提高了,但是還是非常非常的少。那這一點就要請\n\n12:08.357 --> 12:29.999\n一百零七年的時候到現在七年的時間就為等國家語言發展中心的設置條例我們等了七年現在終於在上個月送進來了送進來了我們很高興說我們可以國家語言發展中心跟客語的發展中心可以併在一起來做但是文化部文化部的次長\n\n12:33.052 --> 12:54.694\n文化部的次長李敬惠他在記者會裡面特別提到說這個國家語言研究發展中心會處理跨語言別跨領域的研究單一語言但是客家化原住民要回原單位院長部長\n\n12:57.882 --> 13:25.078\n國家語言基本法為了客語發展中心等了7年等到今天的結果又說要回到原單位回到客委會去我們白等白耗了白耗了這7年的時間讓我們客語沒辦法去發展嗎既然叫做國家語言研究發展中心那國家語言各個語言都算嘛國家語言的定義就非常清楚所以客語要放進去啊當時告訴我們說客語就可以併進來所以我們等了7年\n\n13:25.950 --> 13:43.246\n結果現在設置條例通過了就是說又回到原單位又繞回去原單位讓我們客語的發展白白耗費了這7年的時間所以在這邊拜託院長雖然你不會講客家話我相信你會支持客家的語言的發展不要讓它滅絕\n\n13:44.427 --> 14:04.426\n現在這個設置條例已經通過了趕快把我們刻意的研究發展不要讓這語言來做一個凋零的情形發生好不好我們會讓這個研究發展中心將來很健全的發展同時不只在這裡我希望各個學校的教育適合的地區地點都應該把刻意融入成一個教材讓我們刻意繼續傳送下去\n\n14:06.408 --> 14:25.909\n接下來本席要跟院長請教的就是說我們龍科三期的進度因為這個在前年的時候在前行政院長蘇貞昌啟動了龍科三期因為龍科三期前面有一期跟二期這個都非常的成功所以我們相信三期的推動是不會有問題的\n\n14:26.870 --> 14:48.189\n但是當時因為這個土地徵收的範圍沒有確定性也跟地方疏於溝通所以造成了一個很大的反彈那後來呢桃園市政府跟我們柯管局跟本溪跟地方慢慢的溝通終於獲得到共識了雖然是徵收土地的範圍面積減少了但是\n\n14:48.809 --> 15:10.514\n大家都樂觀其成,所以大概是本席聽到,聽到說我們行政院要來做溝通跟協調,請問協調了沒有?報告委員,我們新竹科學人氣管理局跟桃園市政府現在正在...我是聽說行政院要出面協調嘛,那協調了嗎?現在有進度嗎?大概什麼時候?現在桃園市政府在重新劃定範圍,因為看...範圍已經出來了?\n\n15:18.643 --> 15:19.083\n德隆國小\n\n15:30.885 --> 15:31.505\n所以他們正在選票\n\n15:59.577 --> 15:59.597\n好!謝謝!\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.681,"end":12.682,"text":"謝謝主席,請卓院長。麻煩再請卓院長備詢。議員好。院長好。院長,你是行政院的大家長,也是家裡的家長。所以我想請教你,你為人父母,那你的兒女在小時候的時候,你是不是一定有跟他講一些小故事?"},{"start":37.904,"end":62.066,"text":"所以我請教院長你知不知道大雨治水?所以本席想問院長你知道是大雨治水那為什麼現在大雨治水會被討論呢?最重要就是媒體報導出來有一個家長跟孩子來分享這個大雨治水的故事但是他這個高中的孩子卻不知道大雨治水"},{"start":62.746,"end":82.464,"text":"結果被研上了,那因為大家都認為說大禹治水是個神話,那這個神話你與其去了解大禹治水,你不如去了解這個八田禹醫喔,那說到這邊我就要請教院長,你認為八田禹醫跟大禹治水哪一個重要?"},{"start":83.851,"end":84.191,"text":"您的意思是哪個重要?"},{"start":112.847,"end":113.007,"text":"﹚呂玉玲"},{"start":133.603,"end":154.613,"text":"講到這邊就表示八天雨一跟大雨治水是一樣的重要,這個院長同意了。有的是生活的體驗跟接觸,有的是歷史的研究。所以在歷史上我們都必須去傳承下去,才是正確的方向。所以講到這邊接下來我就要跟院長來討論的就是我們108課綱。"},{"start":158.115,"end":179.028,"text":"這個108課綱在上路以來到現在在我們外界這個爭議非常的大因為學生不了解老師又疲於奔命疲於在這個備課當中在準備很多的素材我們要孩子在他們適性養材要去多元選擇課程但是他們課業非常的重在這麼重的課業裡面要去尋求這些課綱去選擇"},{"start":183.511,"end":200.961,"text":"所以他們在黑暗中去尋索的時候他們只得用賭的方式如果中了中去賭了對了他們就找到他們的興趣了所以才會在外界來講一直說108課綱都要好好的來再討論是不是部長您上來了您認為108課綱要討論嗎"},{"start":204.807,"end":220.072,"text":"跟委員報告事實上從我們這個教育基本法裡邊我們所期待的培養未來的人才的一個圖像事實上那些基本能力這個素養事實上是沒有改變的"},{"start":220.692,"end":239.549,"text":"沒有改變,但是我們需要的是專業的人士,專業的老師。但是我們專業人力不足的情況之下,我們很多老師就要去監課。監課下他疲於奔命,工作壓力變得更大,老師累,孩子也累啊。是,這個我想...是就要改變了,該改就要去改吧。"},{"start":240.305,"end":259.027,"text":"我同意委員就是說我們在教育現場確實怎麼樣去讓老師他學的一個本科專業能夠從專業裡面去指導所以你同意說必須要專業的老師嗎不能說他是兼課他去備課準備一大堆的資料這樣子他工作量增加了壓力也變大了"},{"start":259.548,"end":261.009,"text":"部長,我現在提醒你就是因為你的多元學習"},{"start":279.261,"end":279.281,"text":"﹚呂玲"},{"start":309.42,"end":328.086,"text":"他們要準備這個學習歷程檔案但是他本身的課程就已經很多了那孩子們在這麼多課業反省當中他們沒辦法也不了解沒辦法準備所以就變成了這個是金錢的遊戲為什麼這樣說因為他要找補習班來教找補習班來教的話又發生了一個問題因為我們針對於弱勢會變成非常的不公平"},{"start":336.189,"end":358.785,"text":"因為是金錢遊戲嘛。他沒用金錢去準備補習班來教。他沒用金錢去找更多的課外活動。讓他的那個學習那個歷程檔案裡面更加的豐富。結果這個歷程檔案做出來了。是他的興趣嗎?是他要的嗎?我們打了很大的問號。所以外界、所以民眾還一直說必須要檢討改進。"},{"start":360.93,"end":361.17,"text":"因為他缺乏引導阿!"},{"start":382.805,"end":399.554,"text":"所以這一個部分我們也跟委員報告我們從青年暑假我們會加強這一方面不僅是高中三年級我們會到高二、高一、到國中甚至小學我們開始去跟教育現場包括跟家長分享"},{"start":401.935,"end":420.947,"text":"問題的癥結問題的重要因為你說從高中三年還不夠還要到國中還要到國小去他們一般說準備課的不管是雙女還是數女這個教育他們已經疲於奔命了你還要給他這個學習檔案他不是要怎麼去摸索你的利益良善要他找出他的興趣"},{"start":421.627,"end":421.827,"text":"所以部長我才說"},{"start":447.062,"end":447.082,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":474.431,"end":500.258,"text":"感謝委員的關心但是我要利用這個機會跟委員報告以臺大為例我們看到那一些透過推生透過這個學歷程檔案有更多的弱勢或者一般的學生他進入到臺大那這一個也是同時委員在關心的我們希望減少這個地線上這些學生或者家長他們不知道大學的教授他們在看什麼"},{"start":501.138,"end":529.733,"text":"所以我想我們在未來在這個溝通我們會...部長你的堅持但是我們一定要為學校為老師為學生都好我希望你出去通盤檢討該改的地方我們去改改一個適當的方式讓孩子真的適性洋財能夠學以致用不要讓他們疲於奔命那麼辛苦好不好好我們要努力我們又必須要通盤檢討要去改那接下來本席想請教"},{"start":531.554,"end":560.129,"text":"院長,你不要說學法嗎?學法是國家的通行語,你懂嗎?抱歉,這個還要學習。還要學習。本身是客家妹,所以我們非常重視客家語言。因為現在我們的客語瀕臨這個滅絕了,那我們客家人在全台灣來統計上大概有450萬人,但佔我們所有的"},{"start":561.474,"end":578.004,"text":"總人口數是第二大類的客家人,僅次於福老人。我們看到客語要頻頻滅絕了。院長,你雖然不會講客家話,但是你是政策的指導者,要怎麼做,要怎麼救呢?"},{"start":579.763,"end":592.194,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒克語也是台灣的國家語言之一我們在6月27號行政院會當中已經就國家語言研究發展中心的設置條例我記得那天在討論的時候現場"},{"start":594.645,"end":595.526,"text":"這非常重要啦。"},{"start":613.188,"end":630.293,"text":"議員長,109年的時候,我們人口跟我們住宅的普查報告,我們大概有客家族群有466萬人,但是使用客語的只有129萬人,不到三分之一,不到三分之一。那在全國來,總人口數也不到三分之一。"},{"start":631.693,"end":651.56,"text":"所以在110年全國客家人口進行我們語言的基礎資料的研究報告出來不管是聽的能力說的能力都是下降的尤其是在未到60歲的這個比較年長的家庭裡面他使用客語的不到一成"},{"start":652,"end":655.282,"text":"所以我們會從各方面來加強,包括剛剛說的國家語言研究發展中心,像這個設立之後"},{"start":680.134,"end":702.637,"text":"原住民族的各種語言,客語、台語,還有包括馬祖語等等,都會在裡面成為一個權力推動。我也相信客語絕對是相當重要保存的,因為人口數確實是多。是,院長,雖然在108課綱裡面本土語言裡有放進課綱,但是學習的人數還是下降。客語認證的人數雖然提高了,但是還是非常非常的少。那這一點就要請"},{"start":703.097,"end":728.217,"text":"﹚議員"},{"start":728.357,"end":749.999,"text":"一百零七年的時候到現在七年的時間就為等國家語言發展中心的設置條例我們等了七年現在終於在上個月送進來了送進來了我們很高興說我們可以國家語言發展中心跟客語的發展中心可以併在一起來做但是文化部文化部的次長"},{"start":753.052,"end":774.694,"text":"文化部的次長李敬惠他在記者會裡面特別提到說這個國家語言研究發展中心會處理跨語言別跨領域的研究單一語言但是客家化原住民要回原單位院長部長"},{"start":777.882,"end":805.078,"text":"國家語言基本法為了客語發展中心等了7年等到今天的結果又說要回到原單位回到客委會去我們白等白耗了白耗了這7年的時間讓我們客語沒辦法去發展嗎既然叫做國家語言研究發展中心那國家語言各個語言都算嘛國家語言的定義就非常清楚所以客語要放進去啊當時告訴我們說客語就可以併進來所以我們等了7年"},{"start":805.95,"end":823.246,"text":"結果現在設置條例通過了就是說又回到原單位又繞回去原單位讓我們客語的發展白白耗費了這7年的時間所以在這邊拜託院長雖然你不會講客家話我相信你會支持客家的語言的發展不要讓它滅絕"},{"start":824.427,"end":844.426,"text":"現在這個設置條例已經通過了趕快把我們刻意的研究發展不要讓這語言來做一個凋零的情形發生好不好我們會讓這個研究發展中心將來很健全的發展同時不只在這裡我希望各個學校的教育適合的地區地點都應該把刻意融入成一個教材讓我們刻意繼續傳送下去"},{"start":846.408,"end":865.909,"text":"接下來本席要跟院長請教的就是說我們龍科三期的進度因為這個在前年的時候在前行政院長蘇貞昌啟動了龍科三期因為龍科三期前面有一期跟二期這個都非常的成功所以我們相信三期的推動是不會有問題的"},{"start":866.87,"end":888.189,"text":"但是當時因為這個土地徵收的範圍沒有確定性也跟地方疏於溝通所以造成了一個很大的反彈那後來呢桃園市政府跟我們柯管局跟本溪跟地方慢慢的溝通終於獲得到共識了雖然是徵收土地的範圍面積減少了但是"},{"start":888.809,"end":910.514,"text":"大家都樂觀其成,所以大概是本席聽到,聽到說我們行政院要來做溝通跟協調,請問協調了沒有?報告委員,我們新竹科學人氣管理局跟桃園市政府現在正在...我是聽說行政院要出面協調嘛,那協調了嗎?現在有進度嗎?大概什麼時候?現在桃園市政府在重新劃定範圍,因為看...範圍已經出來了?"},{"start":918.643,"end":919.083,"text":"德隆國小"},{"start":930.885,"end":931.505,"text":"所以他們正在選票"},{"start":959.577,"end":959.597,"text":"好!謝謝!"}]}}}}