{"id":154436,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154436","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/67413232838a1547a5bbae0d4acf953f2c12d918673f79f1bad52d3b6009b74313ba9401abf90a7b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"15:01:14 - 15:16:54","影片長度":"00:15:40","會議時間":"2024-07-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、6月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月2日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-02","start_time":"2024-07-02T15:01:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-02T15:16:54+08:00","duration":940,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第20次會議","id":"院會-11-1-20","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":176,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（15時1分）謝謝主席，有請行政院長還有教育部長，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢、教育部備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：院長午安。剛剛呂玉玲委員提到108課綱，我自己的兩個小孩就是108課綱的受益者，我要強調，108課綱強調一個非常重要的精神，讓學生有自主探索、自主學習的精神，而這件事情在我小時候的求學歷程是完全沒有的。我們家的大兒子是一個好愛念書、好愛追求分數的小孩，臺灣的體制給他這樣的空間，而我們家的二兒子非常討厭學校的考卷，他喜歡閱讀、喜歡唱歌、喜歡音樂，而臺灣的學校在108課綱從九年一貫教改之後，也給了我的第二個兒子自由探索的空間。確實如同剛剛部長您說的，很多老師、家長、孩子們在現場需要您更多的說明跟協助，讓他們可以真的走在這個108課綱上。我想雖然這不是我本來的題目，可是我身為108課綱的受益者，真的要為108課綱多說句話。是不是就拜託部長之後在暑假跟全臺灣的教育局長開會的時候，把更多的相關政策或是還有什麼樣說明的機會提供給縣市政府？好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我們確實是往那個方向，暑假我們會全面跟家長、跟地方的教育主管溝通這個意見，希望能夠讓更多的家長、老師跟同學瞭解它的用意是良善的。"],["陳委員培瑜：最後補充一句話，在相關的青少年自己做的民調當中，孩子們告訴我們，他們不想要回去我們小時候的聯考，我想這件事情也要拜託院長和部長，我們要繼續堅持讓孩子有自由探索、自由學習的空間。謝謝部長，您先請回。謝謝！","要麻煩院長。我們要先來討論關於兒少權法，雖然今天衛福部長沒有來，不過我們跟行政院照會過了，我想我就直接跟院長討論兒少權法的部分，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["陳委員培瑜：今年是臺灣兒童權利公約施行法國內法化10週年的紀念，10年前，現在的蕭美琴副總統當時也是曾經倡議的一員。臺灣把兒童權利公約施行法國內法化之後，各個部會或是各個行政機關對於兒童權利的認識確實增進了很多，可是在社會樣態複雜、多元的情況下，很多事情我們根本來不及反應，或是現行法規根本沒有辦法照顧到這些突發的事件，所以從今年開議以來，不分朝野立委、民團、專家、學者、教師、家長，甚至很多兒少代表都在問：最新版本的兒少權法什麼時候有機會送入行政院，再從行政院送到立法院來？"],["卓院長榮泰：新的修法內容重點應該不外乎疏忽照顧，還有身體跟精神上的一些暴力，甚至性剝削、性侵害等等相關權利的維護，這個因為經過多年的研商，現在是準備啟動第二階段的研商機制，所以衛福部應該是在這個前提底下去跟各界做更多的研議，希望能夠真的提出一個比較健全的，剛剛說的那個內容、重點都能夠普遍照顧到。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝院長的回應。我剛剛特別有強調，我把一大串的名字都唸出來，我想要再一次跟院長報告，專家學者、民間團體、第一線的工作者包含老師、包含社工師、包含心理師、包含兒少代表、包含老師、包含家長，還有很多的青少年他們願意為自己發聲，所以也要拜託行政院透過行政院跟衛福部對話的機制，讓衛福部知道相關兒少權法在修法的時候，必須要把大家的意見納入考量，甚至開公聽會跟座談會，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝。其實包括兒童的心理諮商，我們也準備要往向下扎根的方向去做。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝院長。接下來有請教育部長，謝謝。談到兒少權法，其實臺灣缺一些工具的可能性，我今天想要快速談一下的是兒少工作證跟兒少教練證這件事情，目前在臺灣的現行體制是這樣，容我跟院長還有部長報告。我們的孩子在學校系統或者是補習班系統，如果遇到了犯罪的大人，他們的名字是有機會被查得到的，在現行的法規之下。可是如果孩子們去的是暑假的營隊或者是社區運動俱樂部，在這些不在我剛剛說的系統裡面，每天陪伴著我們的孩子在做音樂、運動或者是一般體育運動也好的這些大人，他們過往有沒有不當對待孩子的紀錄，現在家長是查不到的，這個部分要先讓部長跟院長知道。可是如果我們有機會來推兒少工作證跟兒少教練證，我們也許有機會改善這個困境。","我想要說一下，目前在兒少法裁罰通報裡面，第四十九條有相關的裁罰平臺，如果有一個大人，例如說他叫陳培瑜，他犯了兒少法第四十九條，我的名字就會被公告在上面，我到底對小孩做了哪些事情家長是查得到的，可是不在這個系統裡面的話，其實家長是查不到的。就如同前一陣子新竹縣就有家長發現，在一個夏令營營隊當中，曾經有一個對孩子不當的大人，他竟然還用別的名義在開課，他開了一個新的補習班，或是他的家人開了一個新的補習班，但是那個人還是持續招生。這個事情其實對家長來說是很大的恐懼跟恐慌，大家會問，政府對孩子的把關機制在哪裡？於是家長只好自食其力，大家努力分享社群的訊息，可是這樣的恐懼，我們其實在法規上是有機會可以幫忙家長解決的。","我們來看澳洲兒少工作證，之前就已經跟部長私下先討論過，我更明確地說，澳洲透過立法去規範兒少工作證，他們是透過警政、司法、教育還有社政的系統互相勾稽，確保這個大人到底可不可以跟小孩一起工作。當時部長您也問我到底那個規範的範圍要多大，才不會濫傷無辜或者是該保護的沒有保護到。根據澳洲的法規，它的寫法是這樣，在我投影片的左手邊有提到，哪些人需要呢？例如你跟孩子們一起工作，包含音樂老師、課外教練、輔導員、舞蹈老師，或是你加入一個正式的輔導計畫，或是你是兒童安全組織的負責人等等的資料，之後可以再提供給教育部，可是右邊它就告訴我們哪一些人不需要呢？例如你的工作是偶爾才幫忙小孩作為你角色的附帶部分，可是你跟小孩工作時間非常短，甚至你只是一個客座演講者到學校，就好像我以前的工作，也是經常到學校去跟孩子們演講，所以我也許在澳洲的制度底下，我是不需要的，可是如果我自己開設一個作文班、讀書會，長期跟孩子接觸，在澳洲的法規裡面，我就是需要的。","講到這邊我想要問，甚至在這個法規裡面，他們還讓家長可以透過一個系統查詢到陳培瑜有沒有曾經不當對待兒童的紀錄，透過法規跟系統的完整，讓家長可以放心，知道可以把孩子送到哪裡去，而對於專業的從業人員，其實我們也被尊重了，因為我們對於兒童的用心跟正確的對待方法也被家長看見，所以我們在招生上其實是相對容易的。我覺得在這個兒童意識高漲的年代，像這樣的系統或是這樣的法規、這樣的證照，有沒有機會在臺灣開始推動？部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實委員所提的是一個非常重要的觀念跟價值，目前教育部對各教育場域不適任的老師有通報跟查詢系統……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，沒錯、沒錯。"],["鄭部長英耀：也就是說，有涉及到性侵害或者體罰或者霸凌學生，這些經調查屬實解聘，全部都會放在那個網站，所以我們所有的家長或者一般人要查詢，事實上都可以查詢到的，所以這一個目前是……"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，沒有，教育系統那個網站……部長，我跟你確認一下。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：教育系統那個網站，一般家長是不能查的，除非……我前一次跟衛福部開會，我要求衛福部要回過頭來跟教育部要那個資料，教育部底下所屬還有地方政府所屬的學校，必須要把資料灌回給衛福部的那個兒少法裁罰系統第四十九條，家長才可以查得到，這個跟部長您報告一下。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，繼續，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以如果是這樣，部長也覺得可行，相關的證照系統、課程內容或是如何有完備的法規資源，我們可不可以一起來研究跟討論？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。跟委員報告，我們目前確實在法令上還沒有形成一個政策，但是我們會從今年暑假，事實上體育署就開始對小孩子有許多的項目，譬如戶外體育休閒的這些活動，溜冰或者各方面的運動項目，包括學校許多暑期的運動團隊，暑假至少我們會規劃二到三個研習營，就是希望這些擔任短期運動或者各項才藝的指導老師，對兒童的權益各方面能夠有一個初步的瞭解，當然未來我們希望朝一個制度來呼應委員的那個方向。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長您的回應，您剛剛講到體育署，那我就跟您分享，在2021年有一個臺中上柔道課的小孩，被教練摔死了，不知道部長記不記得這個事情？到現在我都不願再提起這麼悲傷的事情，當時在監察院的糾正下，體育署作出了回應，增加一個一小時的課程。您剛剛說的，我們辦公室尤其要求體育署，非常多的單項協會或者是不在單項協會的這些社區運動俱樂部，這些每天跟孩子們在一起的大人，他們必須要瞭解小孩，他們不是只是一個小時的課程就可以解決，所以接下來要跟部長談的就是兒少體育教練證。我知道我剛剛說的兒少工作證相對困難，它的範圍是大的，可是我們可不可以從最常發生霸凌、不當對待體罰、性侵、性騷相關事件的體育教學場域來著手？就是我要談的兒童體育教練證。我們辦公室也提出一個版本，我們也跟體育署積極討論過。國體法第十條之一，我們增修了這個條文，可不可以在相關條文裡面，把相關的課程內容、師資人才資料庫，或者是相關的懲罰機制、相關的配套措施，都在國體法裡面把它修訂完成？不知道部長覺得我們有沒有機會來進一步討論這個法條的修正？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，事實上我們也朝那一個方向在努力。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那我們一起努力，謝謝部長，部長先請回好了，謝謝。","院長，接下來想要跟您討論一件事情，我不是很確定可不可行，但是我自己心裡面是有這樣的願望，也是符合非常多家長的想像。我們知道行政院轄下有一個兒少權益推動小組，而且是三個月召開一次，一年至少要召開四次，每一次提出的很多問題，其實必須要有很多跨部會的討論機制，去促成很多兒少權益小組裡面提出來的討論。但是我們在過往很多開會的會議紀錄當中發現，很多事情一旦涉及跨部會，它就很容易權責劃分不明或者是相關的工作業務分不清楚，有沒有機會來提高兒少權益推動小組召集人的位階？目前的位階是由政務委員擔任，但是政務委員是不是真的對這些事情的熟悉，或是讓跨部會之間的合作可以順利的運行？我的建議是有沒有機會讓這個小組的召集人變成由副院長來擔任？院長您覺得呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，陳委員一直都是一個大家敬重的親職教育專家，所以你對於這些不當對待等等的行為，絕對是無法忍受，對此我們是同樣的立場。至於行政院裡面的兒童兒少權益小組，它原來就是政務委員來擔任，我們現在邀請的政務委員都各有專長，我想我可以跟教育的、跟衛福相關的政委談，未來他有沒有更好的方式直接把這個小組的能量，或是他可以面對處理的問題，讓它提升起來。我或是副院長甚至秘書長，我們都會很關注未來所做的工作，我們給予全力的支持。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝院長，其實如果問我私心，最希望有兒少部，但我不會亂許願。我們先來把相關部會的權責劃分清楚，然後可以做的事情做得更多、更好。","最後一個要跟院長您討論的是這個，這也是賴清德總統的政見喔！關於體育署升格成體育運動發展部，我們辦公室一直很關心體育現場的很多狀況，不管是透過運動教練、透過選手、透過學生，透過家長，之前體育署辦了一場還是兩場相關的升格座談會，我們辦公室的助理也有前去參加。在相關的報告裡面，我們看到好像是把現在體育署的組織整個往上拉而已，但是我們自己在想，應該不是組織往上拉就沒事了，而是整個體育部的政策裡面，如何把對於兒少體育的政策放進政策思考當中。我舉一個例子，臺灣過往的孩子們如果想要修習體育，或者是變成體育專家，可能我們會把孩子送進體育班，但是體育班的升學系統，一直到現在都還是有很多的問題，我們日後再討論。所以現在很多家長寧可把孩子送到所謂社區運動俱樂部，但是自建俱樂部的想法，其實可能不在過往體育署的分組脈絡當中，我只是舉其中一個例子，在這個時代的氛圍底下，體育署的升格有沒有辦法呼應新時代的需求，或者是新的時代下大家對於兒少體育政策的需求、對於長者體育運動的需求，或者是整個社會對於運動體育發展的需求？這邊請部長還是院長回答都可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：我先講一下，體育部升格只是運動普及跟全民運動的第一支箭而已，重點在它升級之後規劃出來的整個政策目標，以及它能夠發展出來的各種功能。現在體育署在部裡面，體育署的工作要如何轉嫁到未來的體育部去，這個現在在做一些介面上的轉嫁，也希望這個組織法經過大院的協助能夠通過。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們樂見其成。因為我時間有限，我就快速說一下，就是我剛剛說的，升格裡面不管是經費或者是位階、員額的增加，如何符合社會的期待，我相信是大家的期待，應該也是賴總統當時政見的期待，也是院長您剛剛的說法，還請把更多兒少體育政策一起納入作為政策思考的主體好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。最後在有限的時間裡，我要再問一個，我們之前跟農業部討論協助去化臺灣的牛乳，2025年紐西蘭關稅貿易協定牛乳進來之後免關稅，臺灣的牛乳怎麼辦？我們談到了學童乳，但是目前我們一直沒有看到相關的進度，不知道院長知道相關的進度嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們預計9月開始，每週有兩天提供保久乳或者是鮮乳。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個是院長已經確定的。那最後一個，營養午餐法的部分我們辦公室之前也討論過，關於營養午餐法，有機會在之後進行專案討論嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：會再跟委員請教。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝院長、謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、鄭部長的備詢，謝謝。","接下來登記第6號伍麗華委員、第7號林宜瑾委員、第8號許智傑委員、第9號賴惠員委員質詢均以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe書面質詢：","案由：本院委員伍麗華，針對賴清德總統政見及113年5月31日行政院長施政方針書面報告所提：「政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系」，應落實《原住民族教育法》第15條，推動「114至116學年度原住民族學校試辦計畫」，特向行政院提出質詢。","說明：","一、2024年5月31日卓榮泰院長赴立法院施政方針書面報告第13頁敘明：「政府將逐步發展雙軌制的原住民族教育體系」，《原住民族教育法》第15條明定：「各級政府得視需要設立各級原住民族學校或原住民教育班，以利原住民學生就學，並維護其文化。」，相關事項須以法律另定之。","二、自2018年，原住民族委員會即依據蔡英文總統政策，擬定《原住民族學校法》草案並召開公聽會，立法院亦於2022年排審立委版本草案，然而對於原住民族學校之想像及草案內容，當時是莫衷一是，而未有共識。","三、然而，依據2007年「聯合國原住民族人權宣言」第14條第1項，即清楚揭示：「原住民族有權建立和掌管他們的教育制度和機構，以自己的語言和適合其文化教學方法的方式提供教育。」，其中，近幾年來，成為全國爭相參訪、觀摩對象的紐西蘭毛利教育更是標竿，他們在各教育階段皆已採用毛利語為教學語言（如下表），其中幼兒園為全毛利語沉浸式學校，小學階段則以英語搭配毛利語沉浸式學校，反觀我國原住民族教育，則僅有做半套幼兒園（不完全）沉浸式族語教學或族語教學、民族教育。","四、本席自2022年起，已質詢7次以上，爭取在社會對於原住民族學校法尚未有共識前，應先以試辦計畫運行，然而始終未果。然而，以今年度用於原住民族語言教育相關經費來看，教育部預算6.44億元、原民會預算7.12億元，此外，還有依據原住民族教育法第11條規定之原住民族法定預算64.74億元。","五、當政府投入這麼龐大的資源去推動原住民族語言教育，終要面對社會的檢視：我們最終到底能不能教出一個會說族語的孩子？因此，本席不斷強調，對於什麼是原住民族學校，應回歸教育的本質和國家的上位目標，原住民族學校即是「以現有的師資為來源，用一定比例的族群語言做為教學語言，採用各族群的課綱、課程及教材，實施十二年基本國民教育的學校。」","六、經過試算，在目前已具備族群本位教材（如排灣、魯凱族）的前提下，原住民族學校若採逐年增班模式運作，試辦計畫所需經費第一年僅需960萬元（含2位教師、校長、兼職人員、幹事、校護、工友、辦公業務費、油料保險費等…），到達一至六年級各一班之滿編狀態，一年亦僅需2,304萬元，在現行經費規模下，非屬難事，且師育係以現職教師為主要來源，不需增編員額。","七、此外，原住民族教育法第15條立法理由明定：由中央原住民族主管機關規劃原住民族學校設立事項。爰此，可循科學園區設置管理條例第10條之規定，原住民族委員會比照國科會角色，負責學校設教畫書、招生簡章並提報正式設校計畫；教育部則負責核定計畫、辦理籌備處主任遴選、提報籌備處、教師職員員額並核定設校。","八、根據原民會108學年度「原住民族教育調查統計工作計畫」，以屏東為例，排灣族的現職教師約有四成，具有「非常好」的聽、說、讀、寫能力，而面對族語傳承，我們是在與時間賽跑，這些既有師資退休後，即會造成教學人才的斷層，原住民族學校試辦必須加快腳步。","建議：","1.請行政院責成原民會及教育部，持續推動立法，蒐整過去提案版本、學家學者及教學工作者之意見，提出「原住民族學校法草案」推動期程規劃。","2.請行政院責成原民會會同教育部，兩個月內提出114-116學年度試辦計畫。"],["委員許智傑書面質詢：","一、針對偏遠地區學校，進行制度檢討及研擬結構性問題解決方案。","《偏遠地區學校教育發展條例》第四條之一規定偏鄉學校的定義為：「因交通、文化、生活機能、數位環境、社會經濟條件或其他因素，致有教育資源不足情形之公立高級中等以下學校。」。","根據《親子天下》調查數據顯示，113學年全台將有18所國小走入歷史，是近10年來最多，多分布於南投、台南、高雄、屏東、澎湖等縣市。然依教育部《公立國民小學及國民中學合併或停辦準則》第七條規定，只要新生或各年級學生有1人，學校就要開班，為此還有案例村民組成的反廢校聯盟提出行政訴訟。上述都在在顯示我國偏鄉教育的困境與制度的不足。","據本席了解，偏鄉教育面臨結構性問題，首先為師資不足，且教師流動率極高；且城鄉差距過大，學習資源差距無法被彌補。為改善城鄉教育發展差距，教育部制定《偏遠地區學校教育發展條例》，推動教學創新實驗、多元交流志工陪伴、行政減量和教師安定及社區協作青年返鄉等策略。","然教育部之因應並未真正解決偏鄉教育的困境，教育部應針對如何吸引正式師資長期投入偏鄉學校，以及投入足以彌補城鄉差距之資源，且善用將利益最大化，本席建請貴部針對偏鄉教育普及與生活資源全面覆蓋提出相關方案。","二、介於偏遠地區學校及都市學校之間，缺少補助、招生困難應提出相對方案。","本席持續關心學生就學狀況及教育品質，過去曾針對學生心理輔導等相關議題進行研究。又非山非市學校，被遺忘在都市與偏遠山區之間，一線之隔分級之落差補助差之千里，鑒於我國面臨少子化及都市化，與教育政策問題不符合偏鄉學校基準，致許多資源沒辦法精準挹注。","地處偏遠但不符合偏遠地區定義的非山非市學校，其中招生困難及師資朝聘不易，是過七成學校困境，固有許多學校師資、課程和教學等問題都與偏鄉學校面臨相同問題，使這些學校學生變相成為另一種弱勢。","根據願景工程基金會調查，雖教育部於108年公布修正作業要點，將非山非市學校納入補助對象挹注更多經費，然我國仍有近百所學校建議調整《偏遠地區學校教育發展條例》，因學校並無地方財政優勢，更沒有便利交通，不僅造成招生問題，師資流動率亦高。爰本席建請教育部，針對非山非市學校招聘教師積分、校舍修繕補助、軟硬體教育設備等相關面向重新研擬，以利學生獲得其應有受教權。"],["委員賴惠員書面質詢：","問題一：台南市第一選區學校輔導教師聘用狀況","為促進高級中等以下學校學生身心健全發展，教育部於《學生輔導法》（下稱「學輔法」）第10條規定，以班級數為依據要求各校聘任專任輔導教師。惟為因應實務上偏鄉地區輔導教師人才缺乏、各校班級數少等狀況，教育部又另於《教育部國民及學前教育署補助公立國民中學及國民小學置輔導教師實施要點》（下稱「要點」）第12點中，有條件容許兩校合聘1位專任輔導教師。","1.請問目前於各直轄市、縣市內學校聘任之輔導教師數量、及依要點辦理合聘之學校數量。","2.請問我國各區域得依學輔法規定聘任為專任輔導教師之人才總數量、及目前尚未受聘任之人才數量。以及教育部是否有增加學生輔導人才的具體作為，預計下學年可增加多少人力？","3.針對學輔法第6條所定「三級輔導」機制，教育部針對非專業輔導人員之校長、教師如何進行後續輔導知能培力？如何進行考核評估？","4.請提供立法委員台南市第一選區內，各級學校聘任專任輔導教師之狀況、是否有依要點第11點兼任行政職務。","5.近三年按「少年輔導委員會設置及輔導實施辦法」第8條規定，目前各區域少輔會因接獲「學校」通報而開案之學生數量。另請提供台南市的狀況。","問題二：台南市第一選區偏鄉學校狀況","按教育部公告及全國教育實習資訊平台統計，台南市現有117所偏鄉學校，為6都內最多；其中本席所在台南市第一選區內就有超過50所。","1.請問今年台南市第一選區各偏鄉學校112學年度畢業生狀況、及113學年度各校預計入學人數？","2.請問就教育部所知，未來10年內台南市第一選區內可能因召無學生自然停召的學校數量，教育部是否有協助地方政府盤點後續教師轉任之方式？","3.請問目前台南市第一選區內閒置校舍之數量、預計未來10年會增加多少、有多少已經進行校舍活化工作？","4.經本席觀察，偏鄉學校在經過併校之後，學校周圍的社區發展非常容易沒落，因此併校對於當地社區發展是非常危險的。請教育部承諾在不併校的情況下，提升偏鄉學生受教及受輔導權益，並評估如何將校園課程與當地社區文化與發展進行整合。"],["主席：再接下來，我們請登記第10號鄭正鈐委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":180,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-20","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","羅明才","張智倫","涂權吉","沈發惠","徐富癸","賴惠員","吳琪銘","鍾佳濱","鄭正鈐","謝龍介","謝衣鳯","林德福","吳秉叡","黃珊珊","丁學忠","呂玉玲","張宏陸","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","許智傑","林倩綺","葉元之"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-07-02"],"gazette_id":"1136401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136401_00004","1136401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第20次會議紀錄","content":"對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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\"end\": 558.721, \"text\": \"謝謝根委員報告我目前確實在這個法令上還沒有是還沒有形成一個政策但是我們會從這一個今年暑假事實上我們提出就開始對小孩子有許多的這些的比如說戶外的這個體育休閒的這些活動溜滑冰啊溜冰啊或者各方面的一些運動的一些項目包括學校的許多的這些暑期的一些運動團隊我們開始\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 532.563, \"end\": 532.764, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 532.764, \"end\": 533.164, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 533.164, \"end\": 533.304, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 533.304, \"end\": 533.464, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 533.464, \"end\": 533.704, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 533.704, \"end\": 534.285, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 534.285, \"end\": 535.305, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 535.305, \"end\": 535.445, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 535.445, \"end\": 535.585, \"score\": 0.925}, 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\"好像是把現在體育署的組織整個往上拉而已但是我們自己在想應該不是組織往上拉就沒事了而是整個體育部的政策裡面如何把對於兒少體育的政策放進政策思考當中我舉一個例子臺灣過往的孩子們如果想要休息體育或者是變成體育專家可能我們會把孩子送進體育班但是因為體育班的升學系統一直到現在都還是有很多的問題我們日後再討論\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 805.618, \"end\": 805.838, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 805.838, \"end\": 806.058, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 806.058, \"end\": 806.218, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 806.218, \"end\": 806.579, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 806.579, \"end\": 806.899, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 806.899, \"end\": 807.039, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 807.039, \"end\": 807.159, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 807.159, \"end\": 807.579, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"織\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 807.579, \"end\": 807.779, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"往\", \"start\": 807.779, \"end\": 807.979, 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\"end\": 859.688, \"text\": \"所以現在很多家長寧可把孩子送到所謂社區運動俱樂部但是自建俱樂部的想法其實可能不在過往體育署的分組脈絡當中我只是舉其中一個例子在這個時代的氛圍底下體育署的升格有沒有辦法呼應新時代的需求或者是新的時代下大家對於兒少體育政策的需求對於長者體育運動的需求或者是整個社會對於運動體育發展的需求這邊是要請部長還是院長回答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 832.154, \"end\": 832.294, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 832.294, \"end\": 832.574, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 832.574, \"end\": 832.694, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 832.694, \"end\": 832.794, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 832.794, \"end\": 832.934, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 832.934, \"end\": 833.455, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"寧\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 833.455, \"end\": 833.595, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 833.595, \"end\": 833.715, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 833.715, \"end\": 833.915, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 833.915, \"end\": 834.095, \"score\": 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00:01:02,508\n所以我們家的大兒子是一個好愛念書好愛追求分數的小孩臺灣的體制給他這樣的空間而我們家的二兒子非常討厭學校的考卷他喜歡閱讀喜歡唱歌喜歡音樂而臺灣的學校在108課綱從9年一貫教改之後也給了我的第二個兒子自由探索的空間\n\n4\n00:01:03,688 --> 00:01:30,652\n確實如同剛剛部長您說的很多老師家長孩子們在現場確實需要您更多的說明跟協助讓他們可以真的走在這個108課綱上我想雖然這不在我本來的題目可是我身為108課綱的受益者我真的要為108課綱多說句話是不是就拜託部長之後有機會您在暑假跟全臺灣的教育局長開會的時候把相關更多的政策或是還有什麼樣說明的機會提供給縣市政府好嗎\n\n5\n00:01:32,221 --> 00:01:50,992\n謝謝委員提醒,我們確實是往那個方向,暑假我們會全面來跟家長跟地方的教育主管來溝通這個意見,希望能夠讓更多的家長老師跟同學他們能夠了解他的一個用意是良善的。\n\n6\n00:01:51,414 --> 00:02:16,220\n謝謝我最後補充一句話在相關的青少年自己做的民調當中孩子們告訴我們他們不想要回去我們小時候的聯考我想這件事情也要拜託院長跟部長我們要繼續堅持讓孩子有自由探索自由學習的空間謝謝部長您先請回謝謝好那要麻煩院長我們要先來討論關於兒少全法不過因為今天衛福部長沒有來不過我們跟行政院招會過了我想我就跟院長直接討論兒少全法的部分可以嗎\n\n7\n00:02:17,801 --> 00:02:44,443\n台灣今年是兒童權利公約施行法國內化十周年的紀念。十年前現在的蕭美琴副總統當時也是曾經倡議的議員。台灣確實把兒童權利公約施行法國內化之後,確實很多各個部會或是各個行政機關對於兒童權利的認識確實增進了很多。可是確實在社會複雜樣態多元的情況下,很多事情我們根本來不及反映或是現行的法規,\n\n8\n00:02:45,003 --> 00:02:45,063\n﹚培瑜\n\n9\n00:03:02,965 --> 00:03:19,821\n新的修法內容重點應該不外乎在這個舒服照顧還有身體跟精神上的一些暴力甚至性剝削性侵害等等這個權利的維護那這個因為經過多年的延伤現在\n\n10\n00:03:21,822 --> 00:03:35,511\n是準備啟動所謂第二階段的延商之機制所以衛福部應該是在這個前提底下去跟各界做更多的研議希望能夠真的弄做一個比較健全的剛剛說的那個內容重點都能夠普遍照顧到的\n\n11\n00:03:36,001 --> 00:04:04,569\n好謝謝院長的回應我剛剛特別有強調我把一大串的名字都唸出來我想再一次跟院長報告專家學者民間團體第一線的工作者包含老師包含社工師包含心理師包含兒少代表包含老師包含家長還有很多的青少年他們願意為自己發聲所以要拜託行政院透過行政院跟衛福部對話的機制讓衛福部必須知道相關兒少權法在修法的時候必須要把大家的意見納入考量甚至開公聽會跟座談會好嗎\n\n12\n00:04:05,569 --> 00:04:15,815\n好的,謝謝。謝謝報告。兒童的心理智商我們也準備要往下向下扎跟著方向去做。好,謝謝院長。那接下來呢就有請教育部長,謝謝。\n\n13\n00:04:18,363 --> 00:04:45,420\n關於在談到兒少權法其實臺灣缺一些工具的可能性那我今天想要快速談一下的是兒少工作證跟兒少教練證這件事情目前在臺灣的現行體制上容我跟院長還有部長報告我們的孩子在學校系統或者是補習班系統如果遇到了犯罪的大人他們的名字是有機會被查得到的在現行的法規之下可是如果孩子們去的是暑假的營隊或者是社區運動俱樂部\n\n14\n00:04:46,781 --> 00:05:02,004\n在這些不在我剛說系統裡面每天陪伴著我們的孩子在做音樂運動或者是一般體育運動也好的這些大人他們過往有沒有不當對待孩子的記錄現在家長是查不到的這個部分要先讓部長跟院長知道好\n\n15\n00:05:02,384 --> 00:05:28,607\n那可是如果我們有機會來推兒少工作證跟兒少教練證我們也許有機會改善這個困境喔。我想要說一下目前呢在兒少法裁罰通報裡面第49條有相關的裁罰平台如果有一個大人例如說他叫陳培瑜他犯了兒少法49條我的名字就會被公告在上面那我到底對小孩做了哪些事情呢家長是查得到的可是不在這個系統裡面其實家長是查不到就如同前一陣子\n\n16\n00:05:29,528 --> 00:05:54,940\n新竹市是新竹縣就有家長發現在一個下令營營隊當中曾經有一個對孩子不當的大人他竟然還用別的名義在開課他開了一個新的補習班或是他的家人開了一個新的補習班但是那個人還是持續招生那這個事情其實對家長來說是很大的恐懼跟恐慌大家會問政府對孩子把關機是在哪裡那於是家長只好自食其力大家努力分享社群的訊息\n\n17\n00:06:13,829 --> 00:06:16,332\n在我投影片的左手邊下一張。投影片的左手邊有提到\n\n18\n00:06:35,091 --> 00:07:01,306\n哪些人需要呢?例如說你跟孩子們一起工作,包含音樂老師、課外教練、輔導員、舞蹈老師,或是你加入一個正式的輔導計畫,或是你是兒童安全組織的負責人等等等的資料之後可以再提供給教育部。可是右邊他就告訴我們哪一些人你不需要呢?例如說你的工作是偶爾才幫忙小孩作為你角色的附帶部分,可是你跟小孩工作時間非常短,甚至你只是一個客座演講者到學校。\n\n19\n00:07:01,826 --> 00:07:01,866\n陳培瑜\n\n20\n00:07:51,158 --> 00:08:17,171\n跟委員報告,確實委員所提的這是一個非常重要的一個觀念跟價值。我們目前在教育部是對各教育場域不適任的老師是有通報跟查詢。是沒錯沒錯。也就是說有涉及到性侵害或者體罰或者霸凌學生這些經調查屬實解聘全部都會放在那個網站。所以我們所有的家長或者一般人要查詢事實上都可以查詢到的。\n\n21\n00:08:17,671 --> 00:08:40,882\n部長沒有,教育系統那個網站,部長我跟您確認一下,教育系統那個網站一般家長是不能查的,除非在我前一次的跟衛福部的開會裡面,我要求衛福部要回過頭來跟教育部要那個資料,教育部底下所屬還有地方政府所屬的學校,必須要把資料灌回給衛福部的那個兒少法裁罰系統第49條,家長才可以查得到,這個跟部長您報告一下。好,繼續,謝謝。\n\n22\n00:08:42,784 --> 00:08:50,960\n所以如果是這樣部長你也覺得可行相關的證照系統或者是課程內容或是如何有完備的法規資源我們可不可以一起來研究跟討論?\n\n23\n00:08:52,563 --> 00:09:18,721\n謝謝根委員報告我目前確實在這個法令上還沒有是還沒有形成一個政策但是我們會從這一個今年暑假事實上我們提出就開始對小孩子有許多的這些的比如說戶外的這個體育休閒的這些活動溜滑冰啊溜冰啊或者各方面的一些運動的一些項目包括學校的許多的這些暑期的一些運動團隊我們開始\n\n24\n00:09:21,602 --> 00:09:42,392\n會屬下至少我們會規劃有2到3個這個研習營就是希望這些擔任短期這個運動或者各項的才藝的一個指導老師能夠對兒童的權益各方面能夠有一個初步的了解那當然未來我們希望朝一個制度上來就呼應這個委員\n\n25\n00:09:43,833 --> 00:10:13,353\n謝謝部長您的回應您剛剛講到體育署那我就跟您分享在2021年當年有一個臺中的柔道小孩被教練摔死了不知道部長您記不記得這個事情到現在我都不願意再提起這麼悲傷的事情因為在當時監察院的糾正底下體育署做出了回應增加一個一小時的課程那您剛剛說的我們辦公室尤其要求體育署非常多的單向協會或者是不再單向協會這些社區運動俱樂部這些每天跟孩子們在一起的大人\n\n26\n00:10:13,673 --> 00:10:13,913\n國體法10之一\n\n27\n00:10:42,921 --> 00:11:07,813\n我們增修了這個條文可不可以在相關條文裡面呢把相關的課程內容、私私人才資料庫或者是相關的懲罰機制相關的配套措施都在國體法裡面把它修訂完成不知道部長您覺得我們有沒有機會來進一步討論這個法條的修正?謝謝委員的提醒事實上我們也在朝那個方向在努力好那我們一起努力好謝謝部長謝謝好那\n\n28\n00:11:08,933 --> 00:11:24,410\n嗯,接下來就部長先請回好了,謝謝。那院長接下來想要跟您討論一件事情,我不是很確定可不可行,但是我自己心裡面是有這樣的願望,也是符合非常多家長的想像。我們知道行政院轄下有一個兒少權益推動小組,而且是三個月。\n\n29\n00:11:25,231 --> 00:11:52,942\n三個月召開一次一年至少召開四次那每一次提出的很多問題呢其實必須要有很多跨部會的討論機制去促成很多兒少權益小組裡面提出來的討論但是我們在過往的很多開會會議記錄當中發現很多事情一旦涉及跨部會他就很容易權責劃分不明或者是相關的工作業務分不清楚有沒有機會來提高這個兒少權益推動小組召集人的位階目前的位階是政務委員的擔任\n\n30\n00:11:54,122 --> 00:12:07,005\n但是政務委員是不是真的對這些事情的熟悉度或是讓跨部會之間的合作可以順利的運行?我的建議是有沒有機會讓這個小組的召集人變成是由副院長來擔任?院長您覺得呢?\n\n31\n00:12:07,892 --> 00:12:30,248\n謝謝委員陳委員一直都是一個大家敬重的親子教育專家所以你對這些不當的這個對待等等的行為啊絕對是無法忍受這個我們是同樣立場那至於行政院裡面這個兒童兒少權益的小組他原來就是政務委員來擔任我們現在我們邀請的政務委員都各有專長我想我可以跟教育的跟\n\n32\n00:12:31,048 --> 00:12:48,705\n衛福相關的政委我們去跟他談未來他有沒有更好的方式直接把這個小組的能量或是他可以面對處理的問題讓他提升起來但是我或是副院長甚至我秘書長我們都會很關注將未來所做的工作我們給予全力的支持\n\n33\n00:12:49,065 --> 00:13:00,604\n好,謝謝院長。其實如果問我私心,最希望有兒少不淡,我不會亂許願這樣。我們先來把相關部會的權責劃分清楚,然後可以做的事情做得更多更好。那最後一個要跟院長您討論的是這個。\n\n34\n00:13:04,091 --> 00:13:25,098\n這也是賴清德總統的政見關於體育署升格成體育運動發展部我們辦公室一直很關心體育現場的很多狀況不管是透過運動教練、透過選手、透過學生、透過家長之前體育署辦了兩場一場還是兩場相關的升格座談會我們辦公室的助理也有前去參加在相關的報告裡面我們看到\n\n35\n00:13:25,618 --> 00:13:50,393\n好像是把現在體育署的組織整個往上拉而已但是我們自己在想應該不是組織往上拉就沒事了而是整個體育部的政策裡面如何把對於兒少體育的政策放進政策思考當中我舉一個例子臺灣過往的孩子們如果想要休息體育或者是變成體育專家可能我們會把孩子送進體育班但是因為體育班的升學系統一直到現在都還是有很多的問題我們日後再討論\n\n36\n00:13:52,154 --> 00:14:19,688\n所以現在很多家長寧可把孩子送到所謂社區運動俱樂部但是自建俱樂部的想法其實可能不在過往體育署的分組脈絡當中我只是舉其中一個例子在這個時代的氛圍底下體育署的升格有沒有辦法呼應新時代的需求或者是新的時代下大家對於兒少體育政策的需求對於長者體育運動的需求或者是整個社會對於運動體育發展的需求這邊是要請部長還是院長回答\n\n37\n00:14:20,969 --> 00:14:37,866\n提議部的身格他只是運動普及跟全民運動的第一支箭而已重點在他升級之後他規劃出來的整個政策目標以及他能夠發展出來的各種的功能那現在體育署在部裡面現在體育署的工作如何\n\n38\n00:14:38,741 --> 00:15:05,245\n轉嫁到這個未來的體育布局這個是現在在做一些這個界面上的轉嫁也希望這個組織法能夠經過大院的協助能夠通過我們樂見其成那因為我時間有限我就快速說一下就是我剛剛說的升格裡面不管是經費或者是位階員的增加如何符合社會的期待我相信是大家的期待應該也是賴總統當時政見的期待也是院長你剛剛說法還有把更多兒少體育政策一起一起納入作為政策思考的主體好嗎\n\n39\n00:15:06,018 --> 00:15:30,070\n好的好我最後有時間有限我再問一個我們之前跟農業部討論為了協助去化臺灣2025年紐西蘭關稅貿易協定之後進來牛乳進來之後免關稅臺灣的牛乳怎麼辦我們談到了血統乳但是目前我們一直沒有看到相關進度不知道院長您這邊知道相關進度嗎我們預計9月開始就會每週有兩天提供他保久乳或是鮮乳這個是院長您確定\n\n40\n00:15:39,451 --> 00:15:39,651\n陳培瑜議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10847\t16759\t謝謝主席,有請行政院長還有教育部長,謝謝。麻煩再請卓院長備詢,教育部備詢。\n24275\t43636\t陳委員好 院長午安剛剛呂玉玲委員提到108課綱我自己兩個小孩就是108課綱的受益者我要強調108課綱強調一個非常重要精神讓學生有自主探索自主學習的精神而這件事情在我小的時候求學歷程是完全沒有的\n43996\t62508\t所以我們家的大兒子是一個好愛念書好愛追求分數的小孩臺灣的體制給他這樣的空間而我們家的二兒子非常討厭學校的考卷他喜歡閱讀喜歡唱歌喜歡音樂而臺灣的學校在108課綱從9年一貫教改之後也給了我的第二個兒子自由探索的空間\n63688\t90652\t確實如同剛剛部長您說的很多老師家長孩子們在現場確實需要您更多的說明跟協助讓他們可以真的走在這個108課綱上我想雖然這不在我本來的題目可是我身為108課綱的受益者我真的要為108課綱多說句話是不是就拜託部長之後有機會您在暑假跟全臺灣的教育局長開會的時候把相關更多的政策或是還有什麼樣說明的機會提供給縣市政府好嗎\n92221\t110992\t謝謝委員提醒,我們確實是往那個方向,暑假我們會全面來跟家長跟地方的教育主管來溝通這個意見,希望能夠讓更多的家長老師跟同學他們能夠了解他的一個用意是良善的。\n111414\t136220\t謝謝我最後補充一句話在相關的青少年自己做的民調當中孩子們告訴我們他們不想要回去我們小時候的聯考我想這件事情也要拜託院長跟部長我們要繼續堅持讓孩子有自由探索自由學習的空間謝謝部長您先請回謝謝好那要麻煩院長我們要先來討論關於兒少全法不過因為今天衛福部長沒有來不過我們跟行政院招會過了我想我就跟院長直接討論兒少全法的部分可以嗎\n137801\t164443\t台灣今年是兒童權利公約施行法國內化十周年的紀念。十年前現在的蕭美琴副總統當時也是曾經倡議的議員。台灣確實把兒童權利公約施行法國內化之後,確實很多各個部會或是各個行政機關對於兒童權利的認識確實增進了很多。可是確實在社會複雜樣態多元的情況下,很多事情我們根本來不及反映或是現行的法規,\n165003\t165063\t﹚培瑜\n182965\t199821\t新的修法內容重點應該不外乎在這個舒服照顧還有身體跟精神上的一些暴力甚至性剝削性侵害等等這個權利的維護那這個因為經過多年的延伤現在\n201822\t215511\t是準備啟動所謂第二階段的延商之機制所以衛福部應該是在這個前提底下去跟各界做更多的研議希望能夠真的弄做一個比較健全的剛剛說的那個內容重點都能夠普遍照顧到的\n216001\t244569\t好謝謝院長的回應我剛剛特別有強調我把一大串的名字都唸出來我想再一次跟院長報告專家學者民間團體第一線的工作者包含老師包含社工師包含心理師包含兒少代表包含老師包含家長還有很多的青少年他們願意為自己發聲所以要拜託行政院透過行政院跟衛福部對話的機制讓衛福部必須知道相關兒少權法在修法的時候必須要把大家的意見納入考量甚至開公聽會跟座談會好嗎\n245569\t255815\t好的,謝謝。謝謝報告。兒童的心理智商我們也準備要往下向下扎跟著方向去做。好,謝謝院長。那接下來呢就有請教育部長,謝謝。\n258363\t285420\t關於在談到兒少權法其實臺灣缺一些工具的可能性那我今天想要快速談一下的是兒少工作證跟兒少教練證這件事情目前在臺灣的現行體制上容我跟院長還有部長報告我們的孩子在學校系統或者是補習班系統如果遇到了犯罪的大人他們的名字是有機會被查得到的在現行的法規之下可是如果孩子們去的是暑假的營隊或者是社區運動俱樂部\n286781\t302004\t在這些不在我剛說系統裡面每天陪伴著我們的孩子在做音樂運動或者是一般體育運動也好的這些大人他們過往有沒有不當對待孩子的記錄現在家長是查不到的這個部分要先讓部長跟院長知道好\n302384\t328607\t那可是如果我們有機會來推兒少工作證跟兒少教練證我們也許有機會改善這個困境喔。我想要說一下目前呢在兒少法裁罰通報裡面第49條有相關的裁罰平台如果有一個大人例如說他叫陳培瑜他犯了兒少法49條我的名字就會被公告在上面那我到底對小孩做了哪些事情呢家長是查得到的可是不在這個系統裡面其實家長是查不到就如同前一陣子\n329528\t354940\t新竹市是新竹縣就有家長發現在一個下令營營隊當中曾經有一個對孩子不當的大人他竟然還用別的名義在開課他開了一個新的補習班或是他的家人開了一個新的補習班但是那個人還是持續招生那這個事情其實對家長來說是很大的恐懼跟恐慌大家會問政府對孩子把關機是在哪裡那於是家長只好自食其力大家努力分享社群的訊息\n355640\t373729\t﹏﹏\n373829\t376332\t在我投影片的左手邊下一張。投影片的左手邊有提到\n395091\t421306\t哪些人需要呢?例如說你跟孩子們一起工作,包含音樂老師、課外教練、輔導員、舞蹈老師,或是你加入一個正式的輔導計畫,或是你是兒童安全組織的負責人等等等的資料之後可以再提供給教育部。可是右邊他就告訴我們哪一些人你不需要呢?例如說你的工作是偶爾才幫忙小孩作為你角色的附帶部分,可是你跟小孩工作時間非常短,甚至你只是一個客座演講者到學校。\n421826\t421866\t陳培瑜\n445896\t470794\t⋯⋯⋯\n471158\t497171\t跟委員報告,確實委員所提的這是一個非常重要的一個觀念跟價值。我們目前在教育部是對各教育場域不適任的老師是有通報跟查詢。是沒錯沒錯。也就是說有涉及到性侵害或者體罰或者霸凌學生這些經調查屬實解聘全部都會放在那個網站。所以我們所有的家長或者一般人要查詢事實上都可以查詢到的。\n497671\t520882\t部長沒有,教育系統那個網站,部長我跟您確認一下,教育系統那個網站一般家長是不能查的,除非在我前一次的跟衛福部的開會裡面,我要求衛福部要回過頭來跟教育部要那個資料,教育部底下所屬還有地方政府所屬的學校,必須要把資料灌回給衛福部的那個兒少法裁罰系統第49條,家長才可以查得到,這個跟部長您報告一下。好,繼續,謝謝。\n522784\t530960\t所以如果是這樣部長你也覺得可行相關的證照系統或者是課程內容或是如何有完備的法規資源我們可不可以一起來研究跟討論?\n532563\t558721\t謝謝根委員報告我目前確實在這個法令上還沒有是還沒有形成一個政策但是我們會從這一個今年暑假事實上我們提出就開始對小孩子有許多的這些的比如說戶外的這個體育休閒的這些活動溜滑冰啊溜冰啊或者各方面的一些運動的一些項目包括學校的許多的這些暑期的一些運動團隊我們開始\n561602\t582392\t會屬下至少我們會規劃有2到3個這個研習營就是希望這些擔任短期這個運動或者各項的才藝的一個指導老師能夠對兒童的權益各方面能夠有一個初步的了解那當然未來我們希望朝一個制度上來就呼應這個委員\n583833\t613353\t謝謝部長您的回應您剛剛講到體育署那我就跟您分享在2021年當年有一個臺中的柔道小孩被教練摔死了不知道部長您記不記得這個事情到現在我都不願意再提起這麼悲傷的事情因為在當時監察院的糾正底下體育署做出了回應增加一個一小時的課程那您剛剛說的我們辦公室尤其要求體育署非常多的單向協會或者是不再單向協會這些社區運動俱樂部這些每天跟孩子們在一起的大人\n613673\t613913\t國體法10之一\n642921\t667813\t我們增修了這個條文可不可以在相關條文裡面呢把相關的課程內容、私私人才資料庫或者是相關的懲罰機制相關的配套措施都在國體法裡面把它修訂完成不知道部長您覺得我們有沒有機會來進一步討論這個法條的修正?謝謝委員的提醒事實上我們也在朝那個方向在努力好那我們一起努力好謝謝部長謝謝好那\n668933\t684410\t嗯,接下來就部長先請回好了,謝謝。那院長接下來想要跟您討論一件事情,我不是很確定可不可行,但是我自己心裡面是有這樣的願望,也是符合非常多家長的想像。我們知道行政院轄下有一個兒少權益推動小組,而且是三個月。\n685231\t712942\t三個月召開一次一年至少召開四次那每一次提出的很多問題呢其實必須要有很多跨部會的討論機制去促成很多兒少權益小組裡面提出來的討論但是我們在過往的很多開會會議記錄當中發現很多事情一旦涉及跨部會他就很容易權責劃分不明或者是相關的工作業務分不清楚有沒有機會來提高這個兒少權益推動小組召集人的位階目前的位階是政務委員的擔任\n714122\t727005\t但是政務委員是不是真的對這些事情的熟悉度或是讓跨部會之間的合作可以順利的運行?我的建議是有沒有機會讓這個小組的召集人變成是由副院長來擔任?院長您覺得呢?\n727892\t750248\t謝謝委員陳委員一直都是一個大家敬重的親子教育專家所以你對這些不當的這個對待等等的行為啊絕對是無法忍受這個我們是同樣立場那至於行政院裡面這個兒童兒少權益的小組他原來就是政務委員來擔任我們現在我們邀請的政務委員都各有專長我想我可以跟教育的跟\n751048\t768705\t衛福相關的政委我們去跟他談未來他有沒有更好的方式直接把這個小組的能量或是他可以面對處理的問題讓他提升起來但是我或是副院長甚至我秘書長我們都會很關注將未來所做的工作我們給予全力的支持\n769065\t780604\t好,謝謝院長。其實如果問我私心,最希望有兒少不淡,我不會亂許願這樣。我們先來把相關部會的權責劃分清楚,然後可以做的事情做得更多更好。那最後一個要跟院長您討論的是這個。\n784091\t805098\t這也是賴清德總統的政見關於體育署升格成體育運動發展部我們辦公室一直很關心體育現場的很多狀況不管是透過運動教練、透過選手、透過學生、透過家長之前體育署辦了兩場一場還是兩場相關的升格座談會我們辦公室的助理也有前去參加在相關的報告裡面我們看到\n805618\t830393\t好像是把現在體育署的組織整個往上拉而已但是我們自己在想應該不是組織往上拉就沒事了而是整個體育部的政策裡面如何把對於兒少體育的政策放進政策思考當中我舉一個例子臺灣過往的孩子們如果想要休息體育或者是變成體育專家可能我們會把孩子送進體育班但是因為體育班的升學系統一直到現在都還是有很多的問題我們日後再討論\n832154\t859688\t所以現在很多家長寧可把孩子送到所謂社區運動俱樂部但是自建俱樂部的想法其實可能不在過往體育署的分組脈絡當中我只是舉其中一個例子在這個時代的氛圍底下體育署的升格有沒有辦法呼應新時代的需求或者是新的時代下大家對於兒少體育政策的需求對於長者體育運動的需求或者是整個社會對於運動體育發展的需求這邊是要請部長還是院長回答\n860969\t877866\t提議部的身格他只是運動普及跟全民運動的第一支箭而已重點在他升級之後他規劃出來的整個政策目標以及他能夠發展出來的各種的功能那現在體育署在部裡面現在體育署的工作如何\n878741\t905245\t轉嫁到這個未來的體育布局這個是現在在做一些這個界面上的轉嫁也希望這個組織法能夠經過大院的協助能夠通過我們樂見其成那因為我時間有限我就快速說一下就是我剛剛說的升格裡面不管是經費或者是位階員的增加如何符合社會的期待我相信是大家的期待應該也是賴總統當時政見的期待也是院長你剛剛說法還有把更多兒少體育政策一起一起納入作為政策思考的主體好嗎\n906018\t930070\t好的好我最後有時間有限我再問一個我們之前跟農業部討論為了協助去化臺灣2025年紐西蘭關稅貿易協定之後進來牛乳進來之後免關稅臺灣的牛乳怎麼辦我們談到了血統乳但是目前我們一直沒有看到相關進度不知道院長您這邊知道相關進度嗎我們預計9月開始就會每週有兩天提供他保久乳或是鮮乳這個是院長您確定\n939451\t939651\t陳培瑜議員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請行政院長還有教育部長,謝謝。麻煩再請卓院長備詢,教育部備詢。\n陳委員好 院長午安剛剛呂玉玲委員提到108課綱我自己兩個小孩就是108課綱的受益者我要強調108課綱強調一個非常重要精神讓學生有自主探索自主學習的精神而這件事情在我小的時候求學歷程是完全沒有的\n所以我們家的大兒子是一個好愛念書好愛追求分數的小孩臺灣的體制給他這樣的空間而我們家的二兒子非常討厭學校的考卷他喜歡閱讀喜歡唱歌喜歡音樂而臺灣的學校在108課綱從9年一貫教改之後也給了我的第二個兒子自由探索的空間\n確實如同剛剛部長您說的很多老師家長孩子們在現場確實需要您更多的說明跟協助讓他們可以真的走在這個108課綱上我想雖然這不在我本來的題目可是我身為108課綱的受益者我真的要為108課綱多說句話是不是就拜託部長之後有機會您在暑假跟全臺灣的教育局長開會的時候把相關更多的政策或是還有什麼樣說明的機會提供給縣市政府好嗎\n謝謝委員提醒,我們確實是往那個方向,暑假我們會全面來跟家長跟地方的教育主管來溝通這個意見,希望能夠讓更多的家長老師跟同學他們能夠了解他的一個用意是良善的。\n謝謝我最後補充一句話在相關的青少年自己做的民調當中孩子們告訴我們他們不想要回去我們小時候的聯考我想這件事情也要拜託院長跟部長我們要繼續堅持讓孩子有自由探索自由學習的空間謝謝部長您先請回謝謝好那要麻煩院長我們要先來討論關於兒少全法不過因為今天衛福部長沒有來不過我們跟行政院招會過了我想我就跟院長直接討論兒少全法的部分可以嗎\n台灣今年是兒童權利公約施行法國內化十周年的紀念。十年前現在的蕭美琴副總統當時也是曾經倡議的議員。台灣確實把兒童權利公約施行法國內化之後,確實很多各個部會或是各個行政機關對於兒童權利的認識確實增進了很多。可是確實在社會複雜樣態多元的情況下,很多事情我們根本來不及反映或是現行的法規,\n﹚培瑜\n新的修法內容重點應該不外乎在這個舒服照顧還有身體跟精神上的一些暴力甚至性剝削性侵害等等這個權利的維護那這個因為經過多年的延伤現在\n是準備啟動所謂第二階段的延商之機制所以衛福部應該是在這個前提底下去跟各界做更多的研議希望能夠真的弄做一個比較健全的剛剛說的那個內容重點都能夠普遍照顧到的\n好謝謝院長的回應我剛剛特別有強調我把一大串的名字都唸出來我想再一次跟院長報告專家學者民間團體第一線的工作者包含老師包含社工師包含心理師包含兒少代表包含老師包含家長還有很多的青少年他們願意為自己發聲所以要拜託行政院透過行政院跟衛福部對話的機制讓衛福部必須知道相關兒少權法在修法的時候必須要把大家的意見納入考量甚至開公聽會跟座談會好嗎\n好的,謝謝。謝謝報告。兒童的心理智商我們也準備要往下向下扎跟著方向去做。好,謝謝院長。那接下來呢就有請教育部長,謝謝。\n關於在談到兒少權法其實臺灣缺一些工具的可能性那我今天想要快速談一下的是兒少工作證跟兒少教練證這件事情目前在臺灣的現行體制上容我跟院長還有部長報告我們的孩子在學校系統或者是補習班系統如果遇到了犯罪的大人他們的名字是有機會被查得到的在現行的法規之下可是如果孩子們去的是暑假的營隊或者是社區運動俱樂部\n在這些不在我剛說系統裡面每天陪伴著我們的孩子在做音樂運動或者是一般體育運動也好的這些大人他們過往有沒有不當對待孩子的記錄現在家長是查不到的這個部分要先讓部長跟院長知道好\n那可是如果我們有機會來推兒少工作證跟兒少教練證我們也許有機會改善這個困境喔。我想要說一下目前呢在兒少法裁罰通報裡面第49條有相關的裁罰平台如果有一個大人例如說他叫陳培瑜他犯了兒少法49條我的名字就會被公告在上面那我到底對小孩做了哪些事情呢家長是查得到的可是不在這個系統裡面其實家長是查不到就如同前一陣子\n新竹市是新竹縣就有家長發現在一個下令營營隊當中曾經有一個對孩子不當的大人他竟然還用別的名義在開課他開了一個新的補習班或是他的家人開了一個新的補習班但是那個人還是持續招生那這個事情其實對家長來說是很大的恐懼跟恐慌大家會問政府對孩子把關機是在哪裡那於是家長只好自食其力大家努力分享社群的訊息\n﹏﹏\n在我投影片的左手邊下一張。投影片的左手邊有提到\n哪些人需要呢?例如說你跟孩子們一起工作,包含音樂老師、課外教練、輔導員、舞蹈老師,或是你加入一個正式的輔導計畫,或是你是兒童安全組織的負責人等等等的資料之後可以再提供給教育部。可是右邊他就告訴我們哪一些人你不需要呢?例如說你的工作是偶爾才幫忙小孩作為你角色的附帶部分,可是你跟小孩工作時間非常短,甚至你只是一個客座演講者到學校。\n陳培瑜\n⋯⋯⋯\n跟委員報告,確實委員所提的這是一個非常重要的一個觀念跟價值。我們目前在教育部是對各教育場域不適任的老師是有通報跟查詢。是沒錯沒錯。也就是說有涉及到性侵害或者體罰或者霸凌學生這些經調查屬實解聘全部都會放在那個網站。所以我們所有的家長或者一般人要查詢事實上都可以查詢到的。\n部長沒有,教育系統那個網站,部長我跟您確認一下,教育系統那個網站一般家長是不能查的,除非在我前一次的跟衛福部的開會裡面,我要求衛福部要回過頭來跟教育部要那個資料,教育部底下所屬還有地方政府所屬的學校,必須要把資料灌回給衛福部的那個兒少法裁罰系統第49條,家長才可以查得到,這個跟部長您報告一下。好,繼續,謝謝。\n所以如果是這樣部長你也覺得可行相關的證照系統或者是課程內容或是如何有完備的法規資源我們可不可以一起來研究跟討論?\n謝謝根委員報告我目前確實在這個法令上還沒有是還沒有形成一個政策但是我們會從這一個今年暑假事實上我們提出就開始對小孩子有許多的這些的比如說戶外的這個體育休閒的這些活動溜滑冰啊溜冰啊或者各方面的一些運動的一些項目包括學校的許多的這些暑期的一些運動團隊我們開始\n會屬下至少我們會規劃有2到3個這個研習營就是希望這些擔任短期這個運動或者各項的才藝的一個指導老師能夠對兒童的權益各方面能夠有一個初步的了解那當然未來我們希望朝一個制度上來就呼應這個委員\n謝謝部長您的回應您剛剛講到體育署那我就跟您分享在2021年當年有一個臺中的柔道小孩被教練摔死了不知道部長您記不記得這個事情到現在我都不願意再提起這麼悲傷的事情因為在當時監察院的糾正底下體育署做出了回應增加一個一小時的課程那您剛剛說的我們辦公室尤其要求體育署非常多的單向協會或者是不再單向協會這些社區運動俱樂部這些每天跟孩子們在一起的大人\n國體法10之一\n我們增修了這個條文可不可以在相關條文裡面呢把相關的課程內容、私私人才資料庫或者是相關的懲罰機制相關的配套措施都在國體法裡面把它修訂完成不知道部長您覺得我們有沒有機會來進一步討論這個法條的修正?謝謝委員的提醒事實上我們也在朝那個方向在努力好那我們一起努力好謝謝部長謝謝好那\n嗯,接下來就部長先請回好了,謝謝。那院長接下來想要跟您討論一件事情,我不是很確定可不可行,但是我自己心裡面是有這樣的願望,也是符合非常多家長的想像。我們知道行政院轄下有一個兒少權益推動小組,而且是三個月。\n三個月召開一次一年至少召開四次那每一次提出的很多問題呢其實必須要有很多跨部會的討論機制去促成很多兒少權益小組裡面提出來的討論但是我們在過往的很多開會會議記錄當中發現很多事情一旦涉及跨部會他就很容易權責劃分不明或者是相關的工作業務分不清楚有沒有機會來提高這個兒少權益推動小組召集人的位階目前的位階是政務委員的擔任\n但是政務委員是不是真的對這些事情的熟悉度或是讓跨部會之間的合作可以順利的運行?我的建議是有沒有機會讓這個小組的召集人變成是由副院長來擔任?院長您覺得呢?\n謝謝委員陳委員一直都是一個大家敬重的親子教育專家所以你對這些不當的這個對待等等的行為啊絕對是無法忍受這個我們是同樣立場那至於行政院裡面這個兒童兒少權益的小組他原來就是政務委員來擔任我們現在我們邀請的政務委員都各有專長我想我可以跟教育的跟\n衛福相關的政委我們去跟他談未來他有沒有更好的方式直接把這個小組的能量或是他可以面對處理的問題讓他提升起來但是我或是副院長甚至我秘書長我們都會很關注將未來所做的工作我們給予全力的支持\n好,謝謝院長。其實如果問我私心,最希望有兒少不淡,我不會亂許願這樣。我們先來把相關部會的權責劃分清楚,然後可以做的事情做得更多更好。那最後一個要跟院長您討論的是這個。\n這也是賴清德總統的政見關於體育署升格成體育運動發展部我們辦公室一直很關心體育現場的很多狀況不管是透過運動教練、透過選手、透過學生、透過家長之前體育署辦了兩場一場還是兩場相關的升格座談會我們辦公室的助理也有前去參加在相關的報告裡面我們看到\n好像是把現在體育署的組織整個往上拉而已但是我們自己在想應該不是組織往上拉就沒事了而是整個體育部的政策裡面如何把對於兒少體育的政策放進政策思考當中我舉一個例子臺灣過往的孩子們如果想要休息體育或者是變成體育專家可能我們會把孩子送進體育班但是因為體育班的升學系統一直到現在都還是有很多的問題我們日後再討論\n所以現在很多家長寧可把孩子送到所謂社區運動俱樂部但是自建俱樂部的想法其實可能不在過往體育署的分組脈絡當中我只是舉其中一個例子在這個時代的氛圍底下體育署的升格有沒有辦法呼應新時代的需求或者是新的時代下大家對於兒少體育政策的需求對於長者體育運動的需求或者是整個社會對於運動體育發展的需求這邊是要請部長還是院長回答\n提議部的身格他只是運動普及跟全民運動的第一支箭而已重點在他升級之後他規劃出來的整個政策目標以及他能夠發展出來的各種的功能那現在體育署在部裡面現在體育署的工作如何\n轉嫁到這個未來的體育布局這個是現在在做一些這個界面上的轉嫁也希望這個組織法能夠經過大院的協助能夠通過我們樂見其成那因為我時間有限我就快速說一下就是我剛剛說的升格裡面不管是經費或者是位階員的增加如何符合社會的期待我相信是大家的期待應該也是賴總統當時政見的期待也是院長你剛剛說法還有把更多兒少體育政策一起一起納入作為政策思考的主體好嗎\n好的好我最後有時間有限我再問一個我們之前跟農業部討論為了協助去化臺灣2025年紐西蘭關稅貿易協定之後進來牛乳進來之後免關稅臺灣的牛乳怎麼辦我們談到了血統乳但是目前我們一直沒有看到相關進度不知道院長您這邊知道相關進度嗎我們預計9月開始就會每週有兩天提供他保久乳或是鮮乳這個是院長您確定\n陳培瑜議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.847 --> 00:16.759\n謝謝主席,有請行政院長還有教育部長,謝謝。麻煩再請卓院長備詢,教育部備詢。\n\n00:24.275 --> 00:43.636\n陳委員好院長午安剛剛呂玉玲委員提到108課綱我自己兩個小孩就是108課綱的受益者我要強調108課綱強調一個非常重要精神讓學生有自主探索自主學習的精神而這件事情在我小的時候求學歷程是完全沒有的\n\n00:43.996 --> 01:02.508\n所以我們家的大兒子是一個好愛念書好愛追求分數的小孩臺灣的體制給他這樣的空間而我們家的二兒子非常討厭學校的考卷他喜歡閱讀喜歡唱歌喜歡音樂而臺灣的學校在108課綱從9年一貫教改之後也給了我的第二個兒子自由探索的空間\n\n01:03.688 --> 01:30.652\n確實如同剛剛部長您說的很多老師家長孩子們在現場確實需要您更多的說明跟協助讓他們可以真的走在這個108課綱上我想雖然這不在我本來的題目可是我身為108課綱的受益者我真的要為108課綱多說句話是不是就拜託部長之後有機會您在暑假跟全臺灣的教育局長開會的時候把相關更多的政策或是還有什麼樣說明的機會提供給縣市政府好嗎\n\n01:32.221 --> 01:50.992\n謝謝委員提醒,我們確實是往那個方向,暑假我們會全面來跟家長跟地方的教育主管來溝通這個意見,希望能夠讓更多的家長老師跟同學他們能夠了解他的一個用意是良善的。\n\n01:51.414 --> 02:16.220\n謝謝我最後補充一句話在相關的青少年自己做的民調當中孩子們告訴我們他們不想要回去我們小時候的聯考我想這件事情也要拜託院長跟部長我們要繼續堅持讓孩子有自由探索自由學習的空間謝謝部長您先請回謝謝好那要麻煩院長我們要先來討論關於兒少全法不過因為今天衛福部長沒有來不過我們跟行政院招會過了我想我就跟院長直接討論兒少全法的部分可以嗎\n\n02:17.801 --> 02:44.443\n台灣今年是兒童權利公約施行法國內化十周年的紀念。十年前現在的蕭美琴副總統當時也是曾經倡議的議員。台灣確實把兒童權利公約施行法國內化之後,確實很多各個部會或是各個行政機關對於兒童權利的認識確實增進了很多。可是確實在社會複雜樣態多元的情況下,很多事情我們根本來不及反映或是現行的法規,\n\n02:45.003 --> 02:45.063\n﹚培瑜\n\n03:02.965 --> 03:19.821\n新的修法內容重點應該不外乎在這個舒服照顧還有身體跟精神上的一些暴力甚至性剝削性侵害等等這個權利的維護那這個因為經過多年的延伤現在\n\n03:21.822 --> 03:35.511\n是準備啟動所謂第二階段的延商之機制所以衛福部應該是在這個前提底下去跟各界做更多的研議希望能夠真的弄做一個比較健全的剛剛說的那個內容重點都能夠普遍照顧到的\n\n03:36.001 --> 04:04.569\n好謝謝院長的回應我剛剛特別有強調我把一大串的名字都唸出來我想再一次跟院長報告專家學者民間團體第一線的工作者包含老師包含社工師包含心理師包含兒少代表包含老師包含家長還有很多的青少年他們願意為自己發聲所以要拜託行政院透過行政院跟衛福部對話的機制讓衛福部必須知道相關兒少權法在修法的時候必須要把大家的意見納入考量甚至開公聽會跟座談會好嗎\n\n04:05.569 --> 04:15.815\n好的,謝謝。謝謝報告。兒童的心理智商我們也準備要往下向下扎跟著方向去做。好,謝謝院長。那接下來呢就有請教育部長,謝謝。\n\n04:18.363 --> 04:45.420\n關於在談到兒少權法其實臺灣缺一些工具的可能性那我今天想要快速談一下的是兒少工作證跟兒少教練證這件事情目前在臺灣的現行體制上容我跟院長還有部長報告我們的孩子在學校系統或者是補習班系統如果遇到了犯罪的大人他們的名字是有機會被查得到的在現行的法規之下可是如果孩子們去的是暑假的營隊或者是社區運動俱樂部\n\n04:46.781 --> 05:02.004\n在這些不在我剛說系統裡面每天陪伴著我們的孩子在做音樂運動或者是一般體育運動也好的這些大人他們過往有沒有不當對待孩子的記錄現在家長是查不到的這個部分要先讓部長跟院長知道好\n\n05:02.384 --> 05:28.607\n那可是如果我們有機會來推兒少工作證跟兒少教練證我們也許有機會改善這個困境喔。我想要說一下目前呢在兒少法裁罰通報裡面第49條有相關的裁罰平台如果有一個大人例如說他叫陳培瑜他犯了兒少法49條我的名字就會被公告在上面那我到底對小孩做了哪些事情呢家長是查得到的可是不在這個系統裡面其實家長是查不到就如同前一陣子\n\n05:29.528 --> 05:54.940\n新竹市是新竹縣就有家長發現在一個下令營營隊當中曾經有一個對孩子不當的大人他竟然還用別的名義在開課他開了一個新的補習班或是他的家人開了一個新的補習班但是那個人還是持續招生那這個事情其實對家長來說是很大的恐懼跟恐慌大家會問政府對孩子把關機是在哪裡那於是家長只好自食其力大家努力分享社群的訊息\n\n06:13.829 --> 06:16.332\n在我投影片的左手邊下一張。投影片的左手邊有提到\n\n06:35.091 --> 07:01.306\n哪些人需要呢?例如說你跟孩子們一起工作,包含音樂老師、課外教練、輔導員、舞蹈老師,或是你加入一個正式的輔導計畫,或是你是兒童安全組織的負責人等等等的資料之後可以再提供給教育部。可是右邊他就告訴我們哪一些人你不需要呢?例如說你的工作是偶爾才幫忙小孩作為你角色的附帶部分,可是你跟小孩工作時間非常短,甚至你只是一個客座演講者到學校。\n\n07:01.826 --> 07:01.866\n陳培瑜\n\n07:51.158 --> 08:17.171\n跟委員報告,確實委員所提的這是一個非常重要的一個觀念跟價值。我們目前在教育部是對各教育場域不適任的老師是有通報跟查詢。是沒錯沒錯。也就是說有涉及到性侵害或者體罰或者霸凌學生這些經調查屬實解聘全部都會放在那個網站。所以我們所有的家長或者一般人要查詢事實上都可以查詢到的。\n\n08:17.671 --> 08:40.882\n部長沒有,教育系統那個網站,部長我跟您確認一下,教育系統那個網站一般家長是不能查的,除非在我前一次的跟衛福部的開會裡面,我要求衛福部要回過頭來跟教育部要那個資料,教育部底下所屬還有地方政府所屬的學校,必須要把資料灌回給衛福部的那個兒少法裁罰系統第49條,家長才可以查得到,這個跟部長您報告一下。好,繼續,謝謝。\n\n08:42.784 --> 08:50.960\n所以如果是這樣部長你也覺得可行相關的證照系統或者是課程內容或是如何有完備的法規資源我們可不可以一起來研究跟討論?\n\n08:52.563 --> 09:18.721\n謝謝根委員報告我目前確實在這個法令上還沒有是還沒有形成一個政策但是我們會從這一個今年暑假事實上我們提出就開始對小孩子有許多的這些的比如說戶外的這個體育休閒的這些活動溜滑冰啊溜冰啊或者各方面的一些運動的一些項目包括學校的許多的這些暑期的一些運動團隊我們開始\n\n09:21.602 --> 09:42.392\n會屬下至少我們會規劃有2到3個這個研習營就是希望這些擔任短期這個運動或者各項的才藝的一個指導老師能夠對兒童的權益各方面能夠有一個初步的了解那當然未來我們希望朝一個制度上來就呼應這個委員\n\n09:43.833 --> 10:13.353\n謝謝部長您的回應您剛剛講到體育署那我就跟您分享在2021年當年有一個臺中的柔道小孩被教練摔死了不知道部長您記不記得這個事情到現在我都不願意再提起這麼悲傷的事情因為在當時監察院的糾正底下體育署做出了回應增加一個一小時的課程那您剛剛說的我們辦公室尤其要求體育署非常多的單向協會或者是不再單向協會這些社區運動俱樂部這些每天跟孩子們在一起的大人\n\n10:13.673 --> 10:13.913\n國體法10之一\n\n10:42.921 --> 11:07.813\n我們增修了這個條文可不可以在相關條文裡面呢把相關的課程內容、私私人才資料庫或者是相關的懲罰機制相關的配套措施都在國體法裡面把它修訂完成不知道部長您覺得我們有沒有機會來進一步討論這個法條的修正?謝謝委員的提醒事實上我們也在朝那個方向在努力好那我們一起努力好謝謝部長謝謝好那\n\n11:08.933 --> 11:24.410\n嗯,接下來就部長先請回好了,謝謝。那院長接下來想要跟您討論一件事情,我不是很確定可不可行,但是我自己心裡面是有這樣的願望,也是符合非常多家長的想像。我們知道行政院轄下有一個兒少權益推動小組,而且是三個月。\n\n11:25.231 --> 11:52.942\n三個月召開一次一年至少召開四次那每一次提出的很多問題呢其實必須要有很多跨部會的討論機制去促成很多兒少權益小組裡面提出來的討論但是我們在過往的很多開會會議記錄當中發現很多事情一旦涉及跨部會他就很容易權責劃分不明或者是相關的工作業務分不清楚有沒有機會來提高這個兒少權益推動小組召集人的位階目前的位階是政務委員的擔任\n\n11:54.122 --> 12:07.005\n但是政務委員是不是真的對這些事情的熟悉度或是讓跨部會之間的合作可以順利的運行?我的建議是有沒有機會讓這個小組的召集人變成是由副院長來擔任?院長您覺得呢?\n\n12:07.892 --> 12:30.248\n謝謝委員陳委員一直都是一個大家敬重的親子教育專家所以你對這些不當的這個對待等等的行為啊絕對是無法忍受這個我們是同樣立場那至於行政院裡面這個兒童兒少權益的小組他原來就是政務委員來擔任我們現在我們邀請的政務委員都各有專長我想我可以跟教育的跟\n\n12:31.048 --> 12:48.705\n衛福相關的政委我們去跟他談未來他有沒有更好的方式直接把這個小組的能量或是他可以面對處理的問題讓他提升起來但是我或是副院長甚至我秘書長我們都會很關注將未來所做的工作我們給予全力的支持\n\n12:49.065 --> 13:00.604\n好,謝謝院長。其實如果問我私心,最希望有兒少不淡,我不會亂許願這樣。我們先來把相關部會的權責劃分清楚,然後可以做的事情做得更多更好。那最後一個要跟院長您討論的是這個。\n\n13:04.091 --> 13:25.098\n這也是賴清德總統的政見關於體育署升格成體育運動發展部我們辦公室一直很關心體育現場的很多狀況不管是透過運動教練、透過選手、透過學生、透過家長之前體育署辦了兩場一場還是兩場相關的升格座談會我們辦公室的助理也有前去參加在相關的報告裡面我們看到\n\n13:25.618 --> 13:50.393\n好像是把現在體育署的組織整個往上拉而已但是我們自己在想應該不是組織往上拉就沒事了而是整個體育部的政策裡面如何把對於兒少體育的政策放進政策思考當中我舉一個例子臺灣過往的孩子們如果想要休息體育或者是變成體育專家可能我們會把孩子送進體育班但是因為體育班的升學系統一直到現在都還是有很多的問題我們日後再討論\n\n13:52.154 --> 14:19.688\n所以現在很多家長寧可把孩子送到所謂社區運動俱樂部但是自建俱樂部的想法其實可能不在過往體育署的分組脈絡當中我只是舉其中一個例子在這個時代的氛圍底下體育署的升格有沒有辦法呼應新時代的需求或者是新的時代下大家對於兒少體育政策的需求對於長者體育運動的需求或者是整個社會對於運動體育發展的需求這邊是要請部長還是院長回答\n\n14:20.969 --> 14:37.866\n提議部的身格他只是運動普及跟全民運動的第一支箭而已重點在他升級之後他規劃出來的整個政策目標以及他能夠發展出來的各種的功能那現在體育署在部裡面現在體育署的工作如何\n\n14:38.741 --> 15:05.245\n轉嫁到這個未來的體育布局這個是現在在做一些這個界面上的轉嫁也希望這個組織法能夠經過大院的協助能夠通過我們樂見其成那因為我時間有限我就快速說一下就是我剛剛說的升格裡面不管是經費或者是位階員的增加如何符合社會的期待我相信是大家的期待應該也是賴總統當時政見的期待也是院長你剛剛說法還有把更多兒少體育政策一起一起納入作為政策思考的主體好嗎\n\n15:06.018 --> 15:30.070\n好的好我最後有時間有限我再問一個我們之前跟農業部討論為了協助去化臺灣2025年紐西蘭關稅貿易協定之後進來牛乳進來之後免關稅臺灣的牛乳怎麼辦我們談到了血統乳但是目前我們一直沒有看到相關進度不知道院長您這邊知道相關進度嗎我們預計9月開始就會每週有兩天提供他保久乳或是鮮乳這個是院長您確定\n\n15:39.451 --> 15:39.651\n陳培瑜議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.847,"end":16.759,"text":"謝謝主席,有請行政院長還有教育部長,謝謝。麻煩再請卓院長備詢,教育部備詢。"},{"start":24.275,"end":43.636,"text":"陳委員好 院長午安剛剛呂玉玲委員提到108課綱我自己兩個小孩就是108課綱的受益者我要強調108課綱強調一個非常重要精神讓學生有自主探索自主學習的精神而這件事情在我小的時候求學歷程是完全沒有的"},{"start":43.996,"end":62.508,"text":"所以我們家的大兒子是一個好愛念書好愛追求分數的小孩臺灣的體制給他這樣的空間而我們家的二兒子非常討厭學校的考卷他喜歡閱讀喜歡唱歌喜歡音樂而臺灣的學校在108課綱從9年一貫教改之後也給了我的第二個兒子自由探索的空間"},{"start":63.688,"end":90.652,"text":"確實如同剛剛部長您說的很多老師家長孩子們在現場確實需要您更多的說明跟協助讓他們可以真的走在這個108課綱上我想雖然這不在我本來的題目可是我身為108課綱的受益者我真的要為108課綱多說句話是不是就拜託部長之後有機會您在暑假跟全臺灣的教育局長開會的時候把相關更多的政策或是還有什麼樣說明的機會提供給縣市政府好嗎"},{"start":92.221,"end":110.992,"text":"謝謝委員提醒,我們確實是往那個方向,暑假我們會全面來跟家長跟地方的教育主管來溝通這個意見,希望能夠讓更多的家長老師跟同學他們能夠了解他的一個用意是良善的。"},{"start":111.414,"end":136.22,"text":"謝謝我最後補充一句話在相關的青少年自己做的民調當中孩子們告訴我們他們不想要回去我們小時候的聯考我想這件事情也要拜託院長跟部長我們要繼續堅持讓孩子有自由探索自由學習的空間謝謝部長您先請回謝謝好那要麻煩院長我們要先來討論關於兒少全法不過因為今天衛福部長沒有來不過我們跟行政院招會過了我想我就跟院長直接討論兒少全法的部分可以嗎"},{"start":137.801,"end":164.443,"text":"台灣今年是兒童權利公約施行法國內化十周年的紀念。十年前現在的蕭美琴副總統當時也是曾經倡議的議員。台灣確實把兒童權利公約施行法國內化之後,確實很多各個部會或是各個行政機關對於兒童權利的認識確實增進了很多。可是確實在社會複雜樣態多元的情況下,很多事情我們根本來不及反映或是現行的法規,"},{"start":165.003,"end":165.063,"text":"﹚培瑜"},{"start":182.965,"end":199.821,"text":"新的修法內容重點應該不外乎在這個舒服照顧還有身體跟精神上的一些暴力甚至性剝削性侵害等等這個權利的維護那這個因為經過多年的延伤現在"},{"start":201.822,"end":215.511,"text":"是準備啟動所謂第二階段的延商之機制所以衛福部應該是在這個前提底下去跟各界做更多的研議希望能夠真的弄做一個比較健全的剛剛說的那個內容重點都能夠普遍照顧到的"},{"start":216.001,"end":244.569,"text":"好謝謝院長的回應我剛剛特別有強調我把一大串的名字都唸出來我想再一次跟院長報告專家學者民間團體第一線的工作者包含老師包含社工師包含心理師包含兒少代表包含老師包含家長還有很多的青少年他們願意為自己發聲所以要拜託行政院透過行政院跟衛福部對話的機制讓衛福部必須知道相關兒少權法在修法的時候必須要把大家的意見納入考量甚至開公聽會跟座談會好嗎"},{"start":245.569,"end":255.815,"text":"好的,謝謝。謝謝報告。兒童的心理智商我們也準備要往下向下扎跟著方向去做。好,謝謝院長。那接下來呢就有請教育部長,謝謝。"},{"start":258.363,"end":285.42,"text":"關於在談到兒少權法其實臺灣缺一些工具的可能性那我今天想要快速談一下的是兒少工作證跟兒少教練證這件事情目前在臺灣的現行體制上容我跟院長還有部長報告我們的孩子在學校系統或者是補習班系統如果遇到了犯罪的大人他們的名字是有機會被查得到的在現行的法規之下可是如果孩子們去的是暑假的營隊或者是社區運動俱樂部"},{"start":286.781,"end":302.004,"text":"在這些不在我剛說系統裡面每天陪伴著我們的孩子在做音樂運動或者是一般體育運動也好的這些大人他們過往有沒有不當對待孩子的記錄現在家長是查不到的這個部分要先讓部長跟院長知道好"},{"start":302.384,"end":328.607,"text":"那可是如果我們有機會來推兒少工作證跟兒少教練證我們也許有機會改善這個困境喔。我想要說一下目前呢在兒少法裁罰通報裡面第49條有相關的裁罰平台如果有一個大人例如說他叫陳培瑜他犯了兒少法49條我的名字就會被公告在上面那我到底對小孩做了哪些事情呢家長是查得到的可是不在這個系統裡面其實家長是查不到就如同前一陣子"},{"start":329.528,"end":354.94,"text":"新竹市是新竹縣就有家長發現在一個下令營營隊當中曾經有一個對孩子不當的大人他竟然還用別的名義在開課他開了一個新的補習班或是他的家人開了一個新的補習班但是那個人還是持續招生那這個事情其實對家長來說是很大的恐懼跟恐慌大家會問政府對孩子把關機是在哪裡那於是家長只好自食其力大家努力分享社群的訊息"},{"start":355.64,"end":373.729,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":373.829,"end":376.332,"text":"在我投影片的左手邊下一張。投影片的左手邊有提到"},{"start":395.091,"end":421.306,"text":"哪些人需要呢?例如說你跟孩子們一起工作,包含音樂老師、課外教練、輔導員、舞蹈老師,或是你加入一個正式的輔導計畫,或是你是兒童安全組織的負責人等等等的資料之後可以再提供給教育部。可是右邊他就告訴我們哪一些人你不需要呢?例如說你的工作是偶爾才幫忙小孩作為你角色的附帶部分,可是你跟小孩工作時間非常短,甚至你只是一個客座演講者到學校。"},{"start":421.826,"end":421.866,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":445.896,"end":470.794,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":471.158,"end":497.171,"text":"跟委員報告,確實委員所提的這是一個非常重要的一個觀念跟價值。我們目前在教育部是對各教育場域不適任的老師是有通報跟查詢。是沒錯沒錯。也就是說有涉及到性侵害或者體罰或者霸凌學生這些經調查屬實解聘全部都會放在那個網站。所以我們所有的家長或者一般人要查詢事實上都可以查詢到的。"},{"start":497.671,"end":520.882,"text":"部長沒有,教育系統那個網站,部長我跟您確認一下,教育系統那個網站一般家長是不能查的,除非在我前一次的跟衛福部的開會裡面,我要求衛福部要回過頭來跟教育部要那個資料,教育部底下所屬還有地方政府所屬的學校,必須要把資料灌回給衛福部的那個兒少法裁罰系統第49條,家長才可以查得到,這個跟部長您報告一下。好,繼續,謝謝。"},{"start":522.784,"end":530.96,"text":"所以如果是這樣部長你也覺得可行相關的證照系統或者是課程內容或是如何有完備的法規資源我們可不可以一起來研究跟討論?"},{"start":532.563,"end":558.721,"text":"謝謝根委員報告我目前確實在這個法令上還沒有是還沒有形成一個政策但是我們會從這一個今年暑假事實上我們提出就開始對小孩子有許多的這些的比如說戶外的這個體育休閒的這些活動溜滑冰啊溜冰啊或者各方面的一些運動的一些項目包括學校的許多的這些暑期的一些運動團隊我們開始"},{"start":561.602,"end":582.392,"text":"會屬下至少我們會規劃有2到3個這個研習營就是希望這些擔任短期這個運動或者各項的才藝的一個指導老師能夠對兒童的權益各方面能夠有一個初步的了解那當然未來我們希望朝一個制度上來就呼應這個委員"},{"start":583.833,"end":613.353,"text":"謝謝部長您的回應您剛剛講到體育署那我就跟您分享在2021年當年有一個臺中的柔道小孩被教練摔死了不知道部長您記不記得這個事情到現在我都不願意再提起這麼悲傷的事情因為在當時監察院的糾正底下體育署做出了回應增加一個一小時的課程那您剛剛說的我們辦公室尤其要求體育署非常多的單向協會或者是不再單向協會這些社區運動俱樂部這些每天跟孩子們在一起的大人"},{"start":613.673,"end":613.913,"text":"國體法10之一"},{"start":642.921,"end":667.813,"text":"我們增修了這個條文可不可以在相關條文裡面呢把相關的課程內容、私私人才資料庫或者是相關的懲罰機制相關的配套措施都在國體法裡面把它修訂完成不知道部長您覺得我們有沒有機會來進一步討論這個法條的修正?謝謝委員的提醒事實上我們也在朝那個方向在努力好那我們一起努力好謝謝部長謝謝好那"},{"start":668.933,"end":684.41,"text":"嗯,接下來就部長先請回好了,謝謝。那院長接下來想要跟您討論一件事情,我不是很確定可不可行,但是我自己心裡面是有這樣的願望,也是符合非常多家長的想像。我們知道行政院轄下有一個兒少權益推動小組,而且是三個月。"},{"start":685.231,"end":712.942,"text":"三個月召開一次一年至少召開四次那每一次提出的很多問題呢其實必須要有很多跨部會的討論機制去促成很多兒少權益小組裡面提出來的討論但是我們在過往的很多開會會議記錄當中發現很多事情一旦涉及跨部會他就很容易權責劃分不明或者是相關的工作業務分不清楚有沒有機會來提高這個兒少權益推動小組召集人的位階目前的位階是政務委員的擔任"},{"start":714.122,"end":727.005,"text":"但是政務委員是不是真的對這些事情的熟悉度或是讓跨部會之間的合作可以順利的運行?我的建議是有沒有機會讓這個小組的召集人變成是由副院長來擔任?院長您覺得呢?"},{"start":727.892,"end":750.248,"text":"謝謝委員陳委員一直都是一個大家敬重的親子教育專家所以你對這些不當的這個對待等等的行為啊絕對是無法忍受這個我們是同樣立場那至於行政院裡面這個兒童兒少權益的小組他原來就是政務委員來擔任我們現在我們邀請的政務委員都各有專長我想我可以跟教育的跟"},{"start":751.048,"end":768.705,"text":"衛福相關的政委我們去跟他談未來他有沒有更好的方式直接把這個小組的能量或是他可以面對處理的問題讓他提升起來但是我或是副院長甚至我秘書長我們都會很關注將未來所做的工作我們給予全力的支持"},{"start":769.065,"end":780.604,"text":"好,謝謝院長。其實如果問我私心,最希望有兒少不淡,我不會亂許願這樣。我們先來把相關部會的權責劃分清楚,然後可以做的事情做得更多更好。那最後一個要跟院長您討論的是這個。"},{"start":784.091,"end":805.098,"text":"這也是賴清德總統的政見關於體育署升格成體育運動發展部我們辦公室一直很關心體育現場的很多狀況不管是透過運動教練、透過選手、透過學生、透過家長之前體育署辦了兩場一場還是兩場相關的升格座談會我們辦公室的助理也有前去參加在相關的報告裡面我們看到"},{"start":805.618,"end":830.393,"text":"好像是把現在體育署的組織整個往上拉而已但是我們自己在想應該不是組織往上拉就沒事了而是整個體育部的政策裡面如何把對於兒少體育的政策放進政策思考當中我舉一個例子臺灣過往的孩子們如果想要休息體育或者是變成體育專家可能我們會把孩子送進體育班但是因為體育班的升學系統一直到現在都還是有很多的問題我們日後再討論"},{"start":832.154,"end":859.688,"text":"所以現在很多家長寧可把孩子送到所謂社區運動俱樂部但是自建俱樂部的想法其實可能不在過往體育署的分組脈絡當中我只是舉其中一個例子在這個時代的氛圍底下體育署的升格有沒有辦法呼應新時代的需求或者是新的時代下大家對於兒少體育政策的需求對於長者體育運動的需求或者是整個社會對於運動體育發展的需求這邊是要請部長還是院長回答"},{"start":860.969,"end":877.866,"text":"提議部的身格他只是運動普及跟全民運動的第一支箭而已重點在他升級之後他規劃出來的整個政策目標以及他能夠發展出來的各種的功能那現在體育署在部裡面現在體育署的工作如何"},{"start":878.741,"end":905.245,"text":"轉嫁到這個未來的體育布局這個是現在在做一些這個界面上的轉嫁也希望這個組織法能夠經過大院的協助能夠通過我們樂見其成那因為我時間有限我就快速說一下就是我剛剛說的升格裡面不管是經費或者是位階員的增加如何符合社會的期待我相信是大家的期待應該也是賴總統當時政見的期待也是院長你剛剛說法還有把更多兒少體育政策一起一起納入作為政策思考的主體好嗎"},{"start":906.018,"end":930.07,"text":"好的好我最後有時間有限我再問一個我們之前跟農業部討論為了協助去化臺灣2025年紐西蘭關稅貿易協定之後進來牛乳進來之後免關稅臺灣的牛乳怎麼辦我們談到了血統乳但是目前我們一直沒有看到相關進度不知道院長您這邊知道相關進度嗎我們預計9月開始就會每週有兩天提供他保久乳或是鮮乳這個是院長您確定"},{"start":939.451,"end":939.651,"text":"陳培瑜議員"}]}}}}