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decision嘛？"],["陳次長立國：是，我剛剛有說明。"],["主席：所以，一個可以……"],["陳次長立國：就是一票就可以否決，如果沒有共識，就不會達成決議。"],["主席：所以這個要講清楚，免得國人擔心。謝謝。"],["陳次長立國：是的。"],["主席：接下來進行詢答的委員是鄭正鈐委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":66,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-35,19-1","speakers":["王定宇","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","羅美玲","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐巧芯","林楚茵","林憶君","賴瑞隆","馬文君","洪申翰","陳冠廷","蔡易餘","黃仁","林岱樺","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-07-03"],"gazette_id":"1137001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「馬拉喀什世界貿易組織協定修正議定書」及其附件「漁業補貼協定」\n案；二、審查行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府部分停止中華民國（臺灣）與薩爾瓦多共\n和國暨宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協定施行文書」案；三、審查行政院函請審議我國與宏都拉斯共\n和國間自112年12月6日終止「中華民國（臺灣）與薩爾瓦多共和國暨宏都拉斯共和國自由貿易協\n定」案","agenda_id":"1137001_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"154441","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154441","tool":"pyannote","id":"154441-pyannote"},"job_id":"UQU0GbLgAjrNuZCs","queued_at":"2024-07-03 09:55:53","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-07-03 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00:01:06,879\n謝謝委員這個問題的提詢我們對於剛剛您所關切這個議題非常關注而且會嚴加防範的確因為尼加拉瓜跟我們斷交之後跟中國的關係越來越密切那我們之前在中美洲議會\n\n4\n00:01:07,619 --> 00:01:07,639\n二、審\n\n5\n00:01:28,940 --> 00:01:51,092\n首先我們要指出中美洲議會以及SICA當然它的體制規範當然有些不同那因為在SICA這裏面呢六個成員國裏面我們至少還有我們的阿瓜利馬拉及貝里斯是我們的堅定的友邦那我們希望能夠透過說因為它所有的重大議事的決定必須要經過元首峰會\n\n6\n00:01:51,772 --> 00:01:51,792\n二、審\n\n7\n00:02:15,183 --> 00:02:29,536\n剛剛常志友說就是我們在這會員國裡面基本上我們本身跟我們友邦的有兩個可是比例也算是少舉手也舉不贏人家\n\n8\n00:02:30,197 --> 00:02:51,760\n可是是以共識決為主?當然是共識決。就是說在共識當中,多數我們怎麼去掌控,這個多數我們不會受到影響。是。共識決一定是多數共識嘛。對不對?全體共識。對對。你當然是要全體共識啦。可是它是不是會受到影響?\n\n9\n00:02:53,595 --> 00:03:12,480\n我們希望如果有任何一個會員反對,我們至少還有兩個友邦,也就是說如果有任何一個反對就不會成為一個議決的決定。我們有沒有辦法掌控他們的態度,到目前為止?因為是全體的共識,那我們只要掌控這兩個會員國,\n\n10\n00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:41,508\n我們基本上只要不要變成是全體的共識,它就不會變成是一個議決嘛。是,委員這樣的解釋是對的。對,所以我們現在要解釋給我們所有臺灣人民知道。是。所以現在大家在媒體這麼一爆,大家就開始了,那是不是會,我們這樣的一個國際組織又會被影響到,可是我們掌控了這兩個會員國,我們目前有掌控住嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:42,308 --> 00:03:49,579\n當然因為他是我們堅定的友邦,然後在各項議題雙方的關係非常的密切,這個友誼是非常堅定,也會全力來協助我們。\n\n12\n00:03:50,752 --> 00:04:18,087\n我們再談另外一個議題,被騙,這個我們也知道說現在基本上中國就是用經濟開始在做一些所謂拉攏我們友邦的動作,那宏都拉斯就是一個最最最最直接的案例,所以我們也擔心,所以我剛剛會有這樣的一個層次不同的一個詢問就是,我要讓大家知道這是一個全體共識決,\n\n13\n00:04:19,608 --> 00:04:22,569\n所以我們還有兩個會員國但是我們也擔心這兩個會員國會不會因為又有所謂的中國的一個經濟的一些引誘\n\n14\n00:04:32,608 --> 00:04:55,835\n而造成他們的態度有所改變那我們就要跟大家說大家要看宏都拉斯的案子這個案例太清楚了他當時候也是因為被引誘然後中國給他很多的糖吃結果不知道他是包著糖衣的毒藥現在導致因為他的蝦農沒有辦法\n\n15\n00:04:58,353 --> 00:04:58,373\n二、審\n\n16\n00:05:27,626 --> 00:05:52,959\n這是最佳的案例所以我為什麼會用這兩個部分我們要很清楚讓我們的友方知道我們臺灣對友方是言出必行可是中國不是他給你的是包著糖衣的毒藥華而不實的承諾而且都是騙局像過去的一帶一路現在有多少的國家被騙了\n\n17\n00:05:54,219 --> 00:06:14,745\n數不清吧數不清嘛所以數不清的這個國家被騙然後再直接我們的友邦用了這麼多的好的條件去吸引你然後去做這樣的一個跟臺灣斷交跟中國建交目的達成之後就開始跳票了是\n\n18\n00:06:15,888 --> 00:06:34,261\n所以現在宏都拉斯直接面臨的是中國因為的欺騙而造成產業的倒閉所以我們必須把這樣的案例很清楚跟我們友邦不斷的去做這樣的一個讓他們瞭解讓他們看到這樣的一個這個現實的一個狀態\n\n19\n00:06:38,004 --> 00:06:57,442\n所以我覺得這個部分是比較重要的再麻煩我們外交部大家努力辛苦我知道現在外交部的處境其實要讓大家知道更需要去宣傳而不是自己在自己的國內而是去讓大家知道臺灣基本上跟中國的不同謝謝\n\n20\n00:06:58,924 --> 00:07:09,084\n謝謝委員的指教,我們這方面會繼續努力。好,謝謝陳委員。那個陳市長,CICA跟歐盟一樣吧,都是consensusdecision嘛。是,我剛剛有說明,有。所以,一個可以\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2031\t22173\t謝謝主席我們是不是請外交部我們的長賜陳長賜來次長請陳委員長陳長賜早我想最近有一個新聞就是說尼加拉瓜他日前開始擔任我們\n23203\t23223\t二、審\n53813\t66879\t謝謝委員這個問題的提詢我們對於剛剛您所關切這個議題非常關注而且會嚴加防範的確因為尼加拉瓜跟我們斷交之後跟中國的關係越來越密切那我們之前在中美洲議會\n67619\t67639\t二、審\n88940\t111092\t首先我們要指出中美洲議會以及SICA當然它的體制規範當然有些不同那因為在SICA這裏面呢六個成員國裏面我們至少還有我們的阿瓜利馬拉及貝里斯是我們的堅定的友邦那我們希望能夠透過說因為它所有的重大議事的決定必須要經過元首峰會\n111772\t111792\t二、審\n135183\t149536\t剛剛常志友說就是我們在這會員國裡面基本上我們本身跟我們友邦的有兩個可是比例也算是少舉手也舉不贏人家\n150197\t171760\t可是是以共識決為主?當然是共識決。就是說在共識當中,多數我們怎麼去掌控,這個多數我們不會受到影響。是。共識決一定是多數共識嘛。對不對?全體共識。對對。你當然是要全體共識啦。可是它是不是會受到影響?\n173595\t192480\t我們希望如果有任何一個會員反對,我們至少還有兩個友邦,也就是說如果有任何一個反對就不會成為一個議決的決定。我們有沒有辦法掌控他們的態度,到目前為止?因為是全體的共識,那我們只要掌控這兩個會員國,\n194560\t221508\t我們基本上只要不要變成是全體的共識,它就不會變成是一個議決嘛。是,委員這樣的解釋是對的。對,所以我們現在要解釋給我們所有臺灣人民知道。是。所以現在大家在媒體這麼一爆,大家就開始了,那是不是會,我們這樣的一個國際組織又會被影響到,可是我們掌控了這兩個會員國,我們目前有掌控住嗎?\n222308\t229579\t當然因為他是我們堅定的友邦,然後在各項議題雙方的關係非常的密切,這個友誼是非常堅定,也會全力來協助我們。\n230752\t258087\t我們再談另外一個議題,被騙,這個我們也知道說現在基本上中國就是用經濟開始在做一些所謂拉攏我們友邦的動作,那宏都拉斯就是一個最最最最直接的案例,所以我們也擔心,所以我剛剛會有這樣的一個層次不同的一個詢問就是,我要讓大家知道這是一個全體共識決,\n259608\t262569\t所以我們還有兩個會員國但是我們也擔心這兩個會員國會不會因為又有所謂的中國的一個經濟的一些引誘\n272608\t295835\t而造成他們的態度有所改變那我們就要跟大家說大家要看宏都拉斯的案子這個案例太清楚了他當時候也是因為被引誘然後中國給他很多的糖吃結果不知道他是包著糖衣的毒藥現在導致因為他的蝦農沒有辦法\n298353\t298373\t二、審\n327626\t352959\t這是最佳的案例所以我為什麼會用這兩個部分我們要很清楚讓我們的友方知道我們臺灣對友方是言出必行可是中國不是他給你的是包著糖衣的毒藥華而不實的承諾而且都是騙局像過去的一帶一路現在有多少的國家被騙了\n354219\t374745\t數不清吧數不清嘛所以數不清的這個國家被騙然後再直接我們的友邦用了這麼多的好的條件去吸引你然後去做這樣的一個跟臺灣斷交跟中國建交目的達成之後就開始跳票了是\n375888\t394261\t所以現在宏都拉斯直接面臨的是中國因為的欺騙而造成產業的倒閉所以我們必須把這樣的案例很清楚跟我們友邦不斷的去做這樣的一個讓他們瞭解讓他們看到這樣的一個這個現實的一個狀態\n398004\t417442\t所以我覺得這個部分是比較重要的再麻煩我們外交部大家努力辛苦我知道現在外交部的處境其實要讓大家知道更需要去宣傳而不是自己在自己的國內而是去讓大家知道臺灣基本上跟中國的不同謝謝\n418924\t429084\t謝謝委員的指教,我們這方面會繼續努力。好,謝謝陳委員。那個陳市長,CICA跟歐盟一樣吧,都是consensus decision嘛。是,我剛剛有說明,有。所以,一個可以\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們是不是請外交部我們的長賜陳長賜來次長請陳委員長陳長賜早我想最近有一個新聞就是說尼加拉瓜他日前開始擔任我們\n二、審\n謝謝委員這個問題的提詢我們對於剛剛您所關切這個議題非常關注而且會嚴加防範的確因為尼加拉瓜跟我們斷交之後跟中國的關係越來越密切那我們之前在中美洲議會\n二、審\n首先我們要指出中美洲議會以及SICA當然它的體制規範當然有些不同那因為在SICA這裏面呢六個成員國裏面我們至少還有我們的阿瓜利馬拉及貝里斯是我們的堅定的友邦那我們希望能夠透過說因為它所有的重大議事的決定必須要經過元首峰會\n二、審\n剛剛常志友說就是我們在這會員國裡面基本上我們本身跟我們友邦的有兩個可是比例也算是少舉手也舉不贏人家\n可是是以共識決為主?當然是共識決。就是說在共識當中,多數我們怎麼去掌控,這個多數我們不會受到影響。是。共識決一定是多數共識嘛。對不對?全體共識。對對。你當然是要全體共識啦。可是它是不是會受到影響?\n我們希望如果有任何一個會員反對,我們至少還有兩個友邦,也就是說如果有任何一個反對就不會成為一個議決的決定。我們有沒有辦法掌控他們的態度,到目前為止?因為是全體的共識,那我們只要掌控這兩個會員國,\n我們基本上只要不要變成是全體的共識,它就不會變成是一個議決嘛。是,委員這樣的解釋是對的。對,所以我們現在要解釋給我們所有臺灣人民知道。是。所以現在大家在媒體這麼一爆,大家就開始了,那是不是會,我們這樣的一個國際組織又會被影響到,可是我們掌控了這兩個會員國,我們目前有掌控住嗎?\n當然因為他是我們堅定的友邦,然後在各項議題雙方的關係非常的密切,這個友誼是非常堅定,也會全力來協助我們。\n我們再談另外一個議題,被騙,這個我們也知道說現在基本上中國就是用經濟開始在做一些所謂拉攏我們友邦的動作,那宏都拉斯就是一個最最最最直接的案例,所以我們也擔心,所以我剛剛會有這樣的一個層次不同的一個詢問就是,我要讓大家知道這是一個全體共識決,\n所以我們還有兩個會員國但是我們也擔心這兩個會員國會不會因為又有所謂的中國的一個經濟的一些引誘\n而造成他們的態度有所改變那我們就要跟大家說大家要看宏都拉斯的案子這個案例太清楚了他當時候也是因為被引誘然後中國給他很多的糖吃結果不知道他是包著糖衣的毒藥現在導致因為他的蝦農沒有辦法\n二、審\n這是最佳的案例所以我為什麼會用這兩個部分我們要很清楚讓我們的友方知道我們臺灣對友方是言出必行可是中國不是他給你的是包著糖衣的毒藥華而不實的承諾而且都是騙局像過去的一帶一路現在有多少的國家被騙了\n數不清吧數不清嘛所以數不清的這個國家被騙然後再直接我們的友邦用了這麼多的好的條件去吸引你然後去做這樣的一個跟臺灣斷交跟中國建交目的達成之後就開始跳票了是\n所以現在宏都拉斯直接面臨的是中國因為的欺騙而造成產業的倒閉所以我們必須把這樣的案例很清楚跟我們友邦不斷的去做這樣的一個讓他們瞭解讓他們看到這樣的一個這個現實的一個狀態\n所以我覺得這個部分是比較重要的再麻煩我們外交部大家努力辛苦我知道現在外交部的處境其實要讓大家知道更需要去宣傳而不是自己在自己的國內而是去讓大家知道臺灣基本上跟中國的不同謝謝\n謝謝委員的指教,我們這方面會繼續努力。好,謝謝陳委員。那個陳市長,CICA跟歐盟一樣吧,都是consensus decision嘛。是,我剛剛有說明,有。所以,一個可以\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.031 --> 00:22.173\n謝謝主席我們是不是請外交部我們的長賜陳長賜來次長請陳委員長陳長賜早我想最近有一個新聞就是說尼加拉瓜他日前開始擔任我們\n\n00:23.203 --> 00:23.223\n二、審\n\n00:53.813 --> 01:06.879\n謝謝委員這個問題的提詢我們對於剛剛您所關切這個議題非常關注而且會嚴加防範的確因為尼加拉瓜跟我們斷交之後跟中國的關係越來越密切那我們之前在中美洲議會\n\n01:07.619 --> 01:07.639\n二、審\n\n01:28.940 --> 01:51.092\n首先我們要指出中美洲議會以及SICA當然它的體制規範當然有些不同那因為在SICA這裏面呢六個成員國裏面我們至少還有我們的阿瓜利馬拉及貝里斯是我們的堅定的友邦那我們希望能夠透過說因為它所有的重大議事的決定必須要經過元首峰會\n\n01:51.772 --> 01:51.792\n二、審\n\n02:15.183 --> 02:29.536\n剛剛常志友說就是我們在這會員國裡面基本上我們本身跟我們友邦的有兩個可是比例也算是少舉手也舉不贏人家\n\n02:30.197 --> 02:51.760\n可是是以共識決為主?當然是共識決。就是說在共識當中,多數我們怎麼去掌控,這個多數我們不會受到影響。是。共識決一定是多數共識嘛。對不對?全體共識。對對。你當然是要全體共識啦。可是它是不是會受到影響?\n\n02:53.595 --> 03:12.480\n我們希望如果有任何一個會員反對,我們至少還有兩個友邦,也就是說如果有任何一個反對就不會成為一個議決的決定。我們有沒有辦法掌控他們的態度,到目前為止?因為是全體的共識,那我們只要掌控這兩個會員國,\n\n03:14.560 --> 03:41.508\n我們基本上只要不要變成是全體的共識,它就不會變成是一個議決嘛。是,委員這樣的解釋是對的。對,所以我們現在要解釋給我們所有臺灣人民知道。是。所以現在大家在媒體這麼一爆,大家就開始了,那是不是會,我們這樣的一個國際組織又會被影響到,可是我們掌控了這兩個會員國,我們目前有掌控住嗎?\n\n03:42.308 --> 03:49.579\n當然因為他是我們堅定的友邦,然後在各項議題雙方的關係非常的密切,這個友誼是非常堅定,也會全力來協助我們。\n\n03:50.752 --> 04:18.087\n我們再談另外一個議題,被騙,這個我們也知道說現在基本上中國就是用經濟開始在做一些所謂拉攏我們友邦的動作,那宏都拉斯就是一個最最最最直接的案例,所以我們也擔心,所以我剛剛會有這樣的一個層次不同的一個詢問就是,我要讓大家知道這是一個全體共識決,\n\n04:19.608 --> 04:22.569\n所以我們還有兩個會員國但是我們也擔心這兩個會員國會不會因為又有所謂的中國的一個經濟的一些引誘\n\n04:32.608 --> 04:55.835\n而造成他們的態度有所改變那我們就要跟大家說大家要看宏都拉斯的案子這個案例太清楚了他當時候也是因為被引誘然後中國給他很多的糖吃結果不知道他是包著糖衣的毒藥現在導致因為他的蝦農沒有辦法\n\n04:58.353 --> 04:58.373\n二、審\n\n05:27.626 --> 05:52.959\n這是最佳的案例所以我為什麼會用這兩個部分我們要很清楚讓我們的友方知道我們臺灣對友方是言出必行可是中國不是他給你的是包著糖衣的毒藥華而不實的承諾而且都是騙局像過去的一帶一路現在有多少的國家被騙了\n\n05:54.219 --> 06:14.745\n數不清吧數不清嘛所以數不清的這個國家被騙然後再直接我們的友邦用了這麼多的好的條件去吸引你然後去做這樣的一個跟臺灣斷交跟中國建交目的達成之後就開始跳票了是\n\n06:15.888 --> 06:34.261\n所以現在宏都拉斯直接面臨的是中國因為的欺騙而造成產業的倒閉所以我們必須把這樣的案例很清楚跟我們友邦不斷的去做這樣的一個讓他們瞭解讓他們看到這樣的一個這個現實的一個狀態\n\n06:38.004 --> 06:57.442\n所以我覺得這個部分是比較重要的再麻煩我們外交部大家努力辛苦我知道現在外交部的處境其實要讓大家知道更需要去宣傳而不是自己在自己的國內而是去讓大家知道臺灣基本上跟中國的不同謝謝\n\n06:58.924 --> 07:09.084\n謝謝委員的指教,我們這方面會繼續努力。好,謝謝陳委員。那個陳市長,CICA跟歐盟一樣吧,都是consensusdecision嘛。是,我剛剛有說明,有。所以,一個可以\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.031,"end":22.173,"text":"謝謝主席我們是不是請外交部我們的長賜陳長賜來次長請陳委員長陳長賜早我想最近有一個新聞就是說尼加拉瓜他日前開始擔任我們"},{"start":23.203,"end":23.223,"text":"二、審"},{"start":53.813,"end":66.879,"text":"謝謝委員這個問題的提詢我們對於剛剛您所關切這個議題非常關注而且會嚴加防範的確因為尼加拉瓜跟我們斷交之後跟中國的關係越來越密切那我們之前在中美洲議會"},{"start":67.619,"end":67.639,"text":"二、審"},{"start":88.94,"end":111.092,"text":"首先我們要指出中美洲議會以及SICA當然它的體制規範當然有些不同那因為在SICA這裏面呢六個成員國裏面我們至少還有我們的阿瓜利馬拉及貝里斯是我們的堅定的友邦那我們希望能夠透過說因為它所有的重大議事的決定必須要經過元首峰會"},{"start":111.772,"end":111.792,"text":"二、審"},{"start":135.183,"end":149.536,"text":"剛剛常志友說就是我們在這會員國裡面基本上我們本身跟我們友邦的有兩個可是比例也算是少舉手也舉不贏人家"},{"start":150.197,"end":171.76,"text":"可是是以共識決為主?當然是共識決。就是說在共識當中,多數我們怎麼去掌控,這個多數我們不會受到影響。是。共識決一定是多數共識嘛。對不對?全體共識。對對。你當然是要全體共識啦。可是它是不是會受到影響?"},{"start":173.595,"end":192.48,"text":"我們希望如果有任何一個會員反對,我們至少還有兩個友邦,也就是說如果有任何一個反對就不會成為一個議決的決定。我們有沒有辦法掌控他們的態度,到目前為止?因為是全體的共識,那我們只要掌控這兩個會員國,"},{"start":194.56,"end":221.508,"text":"我們基本上只要不要變成是全體的共識,它就不會變成是一個議決嘛。是,委員這樣的解釋是對的。對,所以我們現在要解釋給我們所有臺灣人民知道。是。所以現在大家在媒體這麼一爆,大家就開始了,那是不是會,我們這樣的一個國際組織又會被影響到,可是我們掌控了這兩個會員國,我們目前有掌控住嗎?"},{"start":222.308,"end":229.579,"text":"當然因為他是我們堅定的友邦,然後在各項議題雙方的關係非常的密切,這個友誼是非常堅定,也會全力來協助我們。"},{"start":230.752,"end":258.087,"text":"我們再談另外一個議題,被騙,這個我們也知道說現在基本上中國就是用經濟開始在做一些所謂拉攏我們友邦的動作,那宏都拉斯就是一個最最最最直接的案例,所以我們也擔心,所以我剛剛會有這樣的一個層次不同的一個詢問就是,我要讓大家知道這是一個全體共識決,"},{"start":259.608,"end":262.569,"text":"所以我們還有兩個會員國但是我們也擔心這兩個會員國會不會因為又有所謂的中國的一個經濟的一些引誘"},{"start":272.608,"end":295.835,"text":"而造成他們的態度有所改變那我們就要跟大家說大家要看宏都拉斯的案子這個案例太清楚了他當時候也是因為被引誘然後中國給他很多的糖吃結果不知道他是包著糖衣的毒藥現在導致因為他的蝦農沒有辦法"},{"start":298.353,"end":298.373,"text":"二、審"},{"start":327.626,"end":352.959,"text":"這是最佳的案例所以我為什麼會用這兩個部分我們要很清楚讓我們的友方知道我們臺灣對友方是言出必行可是中國不是他給你的是包著糖衣的毒藥華而不實的承諾而且都是騙局像過去的一帶一路現在有多少的國家被騙了"},{"start":354.219,"end":374.745,"text":"數不清吧數不清嘛所以數不清的這個國家被騙然後再直接我們的友邦用了這麼多的好的條件去吸引你然後去做這樣的一個跟臺灣斷交跟中國建交目的達成之後就開始跳票了是"},{"start":375.888,"end":394.261,"text":"所以現在宏都拉斯直接面臨的是中國因為的欺騙而造成產業的倒閉所以我們必須把這樣的案例很清楚跟我們友邦不斷的去做這樣的一個讓他們瞭解讓他們看到這樣的一個這個現實的一個狀態"},{"start":398.004,"end":417.442,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分是比較重要的再麻煩我們外交部大家努力辛苦我知道現在外交部的處境其實要讓大家知道更需要去宣傳而不是自己在自己的國內而是去讓大家知道臺灣基本上跟中國的不同謝謝"},{"start":418.924,"end":429.084,"text":"謝謝委員的指教,我們這方面會繼續努力。好,謝謝陳委員。那個陳市長,CICA跟歐盟一樣吧,都是consensus decision嘛。是,我剛剛有說明,有。所以,一個可以"}]}}}}