{"id":154442,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154442","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bda0c818b0971db6f827d0a78c1009ae5edc75a2b8c9f1b706f16bdf45e156e8645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:23:55 - 09:36:35","影片長度":"00:12:40","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「『文化資產保存法』施行40年有餘，修復體系翻新升級」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T09:23:55+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T09:36:35+08:00","duration":760,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":191,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時23分）謝謝主席，我們請李遠部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：柯委員，你好。"],["柯委員志恩：你好。我想我持續剛剛的問題，特別是三金，為什麼對這個問題特別關切？因為我35年前也曾經是金鐘獎教育文化主持人，好不好？不過知道這件事情的大概年紀都不小了，那也已經是非常久的事情了。","你剛剛對洪孟楷委員的問題已經做了一些答復，我必須要說，因為520你才上任，所以，金曲獎的承辦幾乎是在你上任之前就已經確定了嘛！所以說很多小編……我也相信以你過去一貫的立場，對於自由這樣一個定義，所以應該是小編在這個過程裡面出的小瑕疵，我比較在乎的是，說實在的，在過去，三金可以說是華人圈的一個盛事，所以你剛剛特別提到非常的多元，但是整個影響力跟我那個年代比起來，其實是下降的；對於這一點，部長你應該是同意吧？你當初在金馬獎為李安、為徐發行人等等，但現在這些已經風光不再了，這也是我們必須要接受的事實。","我比較關切的是，接下來的金鐘獎，特別是你非常熟悉的金馬獎，你有信心辦好嗎？像剛剛提到的那些，不管是突然的擦槍走火或是技術問題，你有信心把它處理好嗎？"],["李部長遠：我覺得以臺灣的影視發展，譬如你講金鐘獎，臺灣的劇集這幾年非常精彩，我們接受的除了電視之外，也接受在OTT上面的節目。"],["柯委員志恩：好，關於金馬獎的部分，你有信心辦好嗎？"],["李部長遠：對於金馬獎，我也很有信心。因為長期以來，金馬獎那個單位經過了李安當主席、張艾嘉，到現在李屏賓當主席，他們已經有能力對外募款達百分之八十……"],["柯委員志恩：好，我就是特別提醒，目前金曲獎因為一些技術問題，還有一些政治上面的問題，有一些紛擾，你自己也受到非常多的委屈，我希望在未來的二金當中可以記取教訓。","因為今天主席排的是有關於古蹟的部分，我想中正紀念堂也絕對是我們國定的古蹟，顧立雄宣布已經跟文化部協調好要把三軍移到自由廣場來，細節是由文化部來拍板，這是事實嗎？"],["李部長遠：因為我們臺灣有關中正紀念堂是一個非常敏感的問題。"],["柯委員志恩：我瞭解，所以說這是部長你的決定嗎？還是國防部的決定？我只問這個問題。"],["李部長遠：簡單說，我們其實誰都不能決定，因為行政院有一個……"],["柯委員志恩：喔，所以是行政院決定的？"],["李部長遠：中正紀念堂轉型正義的會報。"],["柯委員志恩：所以是他們決定的？所以說把儀隊移出去到廣場……部長，為什麼我要特別問這件事？我沒有那麼多政治思考，我只是覺得這些儀隊，你要知道他們曾經有過昏倒的紀錄，在室內沒有辦法，但把他們移到廣場去，在這麼高溫之下，這是一個非常嚴重的問題，所以你剛剛說不是你，也不是顧立雄決定的，是你更上層的那個委員會所決定的，是不是？"],["李部長遠：應該不是，因為這個東西是來自民間大家對於去威權跟去個人崇拜的……"],["柯委員志恩：好，那也可以啦！我先問一下，因為你上次回答我這個問題的時候，你說這個要有全民的共識嘛！那你說民間對於所謂去威權也有他們固定的一個想法嘛！所以轉型正義在全民共識之下進行，這是你5月22號回答本席時講的話，請問這句話還算數嗎？撤離儀隊是全民共識嗎？"],["李部長遠：謝謝你給我這個機會回答。"],["柯委員志恩：快一點，因為我後面還有很多……"],["李部長遠：我在5月20號回答的東西跟現在想法完全一樣，因為全世界經過威權統治的、法西斯統治的國家非常多，他們如何處理很敏感的紀念碑或者一個建築物，那個東西如果處理得不好的話，是繼續撕裂族群，所以……"],["柯委員志恩：好，沒有問題啊！"],["李部長遠：所以我會非常小心翼翼地處理。"],["柯委員志恩：不是，部長，你的重點，你或許認為一樣，可是我們聽起來重點不一樣，因為每個人都會選擇性地去理解、選擇性地去暴露，然後會選擇性地去接受。你上次回答我說你覺得民眾休閒是比較重要的，我當時還對你比較肯定，而且你那時候還特別提到，以人道的立場來說，三軍儀隊不是被大家在政權當中轉來轉去，這是你當初的一個立場，這個立場其實跟你現在所提到的，大家對於威權制度等等各方面的部分，其實有很大的改變，一個月來是有很大的改變欸！"],["李部長遠：沒有，如果你願意給我多一點時間的話……"],["柯委員志恩：我沒有那麼多時間給你，我只是覺得你是有一些……而且我要提醒你，部長，我比較在乎的，跟你前次所回應的，這是人民休息的一個地方，而且你可能不知道，中正紀念堂的遊客過去曾經比故宮還要多，曾經是320萬，在疫情之前兩岸觀光還有交流的時候，還曾經達到六、七百萬，甚至高達709萬這樣的人次，大家去那個地方的時候就是看看儀隊，但是對於蔣介石的功過，大家自有一些解讀，不會因為參觀了一下，然後就對這樣一個偉人開始崇拜或是摧毀，基本上，現在自由開放，訊息太多，所以我只能說，在你任內，你過去一般的立場跟你現在所講的部分，我個人覺得還是有一些落差，我只問一個，你覺得在你任內當中對中正紀念堂的轉型，你要發揮一個什麼樣的角色？"],["李部長遠：我覺得有三個面向，如果你願意讓我講一點……"],["柯委員志恩：1分鐘！因為等一下還有其他問題。"],["李部長遠：因為第一個，我們最近有一個讓全臺灣年輕人來設計中正紀念堂，我覺得歷史是要把它翻過去，舊的歷史要翻過去，可是不能遺忘，翻過去之後大家重新面對新的時代，所以最近我會巡迴全臺灣，展覽所有年輕人對中正紀念堂想像的那棟建築物。"],["柯委員志恩：OK，好，第二個？"],["李部長遠：第二個，中正紀念堂要如何解決去威權跟去個人崇拜？有幾個方式，一個就是從周邊的，像剛剛講到的民眾休閒、環境的改造，這是我第二個想法。第三個，至於我們的儀隊如何操槍，我們最後還沒有定案，我相信也不會讓他日曬雨淋，也不會把他撤掉。"],["柯委員志恩：所以還沒有定案就對了？那麼我再多問一個，國父紀念館目前還在修建當中，顧立雄部長其實對這兩個地方真的非常有意見，你跟他好好溝通一下喔！他說銅像部分還是會做適當的戒護，我不曉得他說的適當戒護是怎麼樣？萬一這個儀隊撤掉之後，能夠讓更多激進份子來做一些損毀的話，那你文化部的態度又是如何？"],["李部長遠：我想強化保全吧！這一點我的確覺得要顧慮到不同族群對同一個事情有不同的看法，從過去歷史上看到這種有經過威權……"],["柯委員志恩：是，你的保全應該跟國防部這樣子的保護完全是沒有關係就對了？"],["李部長遠：對，我作為一位政府官員的態度，應該是讓它不要衝突、不要撕裂，我剛剛一直強調說，我從進來講的話到現在的話還是一樣的，最重要的一件事情就是，我們要慎重處理過去的歷史，我們不要遺忘它，也不能夠為了逃避躲掉它，最重要的是讓過去的歷史仇恨翻過去，重新面對新的歷史。"],["柯委員志恩：我完全同意這個部分，只是你上次所講、所劃的重點，你現在把它講得更清楚，但是我還是要懇請部長，真的大家那時候一開始對你寄予厚望，就是因為你一本初衷，做很多事情你是還保有過去的一個想法，我還是希望文化部長就是以文化為基準點，不要被政治給凌駕。","接下來跟你問一個比較政治的問題，就像我們剛剛說的新華社，你剛剛已經特別提到，是聯合報來做一些邀請的。目前大陸駐臺大概有6家媒體、7名的記者，部長，就你所理解的部分來說，過去新華社或者是大陸的媒體來臺灣這邊，從過去到現在有多少是違規的，比例是多少？"],["李部長遠：這個部分，因為我才剛來，不太知道。"],["柯委員志恩：有多少是違規的？"],["李部長遠：我想請次長來說明。"],["王次長時思：跟委員報告，新華社的部分並沒有其他違規的情形。"],["柯委員志恩：目前為止並沒有其他違規的一個狀況出現，「大陸駐臺」是指大陸其他駐臺的記者嗎？有沒有這樣子的一個紀錄？"],["王次長時思：曾經有過一家……"],["柯委員志恩：曾經有過一家？"],["王次長時思：曾經有過東南衛視，東南衛視後來……"],["柯委員志恩：所以目前為止都還是維持在符合規範的範圍裡面，那麼我問一下，大陸駐臺記者如果在臺灣有設備上的需求，像要租攝影棚或者SNG車，在文化部的規定當中可不可以？"],["王次長時思：基本上要看它的狀況來做申請，因為它……"],["柯委員志恩：是可以，還是看狀況？"],["王次長時思：因為他進來目的是進行駐點的採訪，那是依據這個採訪的需求而衍生的，如果沒有牽涉到其他的情形，就是看他的實際的狀況來做……"],["柯委員志恩：所以攝影棚是看你的實際狀況決定？當然你有前提設在那個地方嘛！所以攝影棚或SNG車的租借，在目前法規上面來說是OK的？"],["王次長時思：是，如果符合他在臺的活動目的是OK。"],["柯委員志恩：我只是說，到目前為止很多人想瞭解臺灣一些的訊息，透過這樣子傳輸的管道，不要把每個人都當匪諜好不好？我真的覺得我們臺灣現在已經處處都是匪諜，又回到我35年前的時代了，不止，更早以前的時代了，我們對臺灣民主要有相當的信心喔！不要把一些事情都擴大解讀，影射是最傷害的，好。謝謝！","最後，我要問一下，有關於大家非常關切的國定古蹟──鹿港龍山寺的彩繪工程，到底什麼時候會再來一次地把它復原？這是鹿港人非常在乎的。"],["李部長遠：這個我要請文資局局長跟你解釋一下。"],["陳局長濟民：委員，鹿港龍山寺的彩繪，我們在4月份做終止契約的決定，現在在進行結算的工作，結算之後我們會再……"],["柯委員志恩：好，局長，既然你都上來了，我還是要讓部長瞭解一下，我真的不曉得發生什麼事情。我們這位局長在擔任國美館副館長的時候，典藏庫房是解約的，我們要再次發包；擔任文建會第二處長的時候，又是解約再發包；擔任傳藝中心主任的時候，高雄中山堂修復工程也是解約再發包；這一次鹿港龍山寺彩繪修復工程我們延宕了兩年，解約之後這次又要再發包。請問為什麼一連串一直在出包，到底是什麼樣的問題？"],["李部長遠：我覺得臺灣的文資修復是一個非常複雜的問題，中央給錢然後地方來修復，這個我們真的還在學習中，因為臺灣有文資概念是很後面的事情……"],["柯委員志恩：我瞭解，局長，可是這是發生在你任內，你必須要做一些解釋，特別是這次大家非常關切鹿港龍山寺的這個部分，基層都完全反彈，因為裡面包括整個過程、美感、一些的數量等等，難道這麼多解約再發包都沒有辦法讓你們得到任何一點學習或是教訓嗎？"],["陳局長濟民：委員，龍山寺這個案子主要是團隊，我們的……"],["柯委員志恩：那麼之前的案子有沒有再重複發生？"],["陳局長濟民：每一個案例都不一樣。"],["柯委員志恩：雖然每一個案例都不一樣，但是結果都一樣，就叫做解約再發包。"],["陳局長濟民：我想這都是按照我們合約的規定啦！如果不解約，那我覺得那是失職。"],["柯委員志恩：這麼多次的狀況，部長，我今天特別提出來、條列這個部分，或許你剛上任，但是我覺得你一直強調，從過去歷史當中學到教訓然後往前走，不能回顧過去起碼可以往前看，這麼多的例子擺在這個地方，特別鹿港龍山寺承載了非常多鹿港人對於文化上面的一個精神寄託，現在已經延宕兩年了，同樣的問題還是存在，請問什麼時候可以讓這個彩繪工程正式的完工？給我們一個數字，局長或部長。"],["陳局長濟民：委員，這個我想程序還是繼續照走啦！"],["柯委員志恩：什麼時候？"],["陳局長濟民：可能我們要再……"],["柯委員志恩：什麼時候可以告訴我一個答案？"],["陳局長濟民：我一個禮拜之內。"],["柯委員志恩：一個禮拜告訴我，好不好？還有所發生的問題等等之類，請告訴本席，到底問題真正所在？還有過去的這些問題當中，我們如何從過去的教訓當中，得到一個學習的經驗，我覺得這才是最重要的，好。謝謝！"],["李部長遠：謝謝委員"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩召委的質詢，部長請回座。","接下來請萬美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-18","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林德福","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","陳秀寳","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","范雲","鄭天財Sra 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\"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 510.861, \"end\": 511.082, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 511.082, \"end\": 511.342, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 511.342, \"end\": 511.502, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 511.502, \"end\": 511.863, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 511.863, \"end\": 511.983, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 511.983, \"end\": 512.163, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 512.163, \"end\": 512.764, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"駐\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 512.764, \"end\": 512.904, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 512.904, \"end\": 513.204, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 513.204, \"end\": 513.925, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 513.925, \"end\": 514.045, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 514.045, \"end\": 514.125, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 514.125, \"end\": 514.405, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 514.405, \"end\": 514.485, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 514.485, \"end\": 514.565, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 514.565, \"end\": 514.585, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 516.988, \"end\": 521.95, \"text\": \"大陸的駐台機車如果在臺灣有識別上的需求像是要租攝影棚或是SNG車在文化部的規定當中是可不可以?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 516.988, \"end\": 517.348, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 517.348, \"end\": 517.368, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"駐\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 517.368, \"end\": 517.408, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 517.408, \"end\": 517.528, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 517.528, \"end\": 517.668, \"score\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:03,551\n好謝謝主席我們請李遠部長好有請部長柯委員你好你好我想我持續剛剛的問題特別是三經為什麼對這問題特別關切因為我35年前也曾經是金鐘獎的教育文化的主持人好不好不過知道這件事情大概年紀都不小了好不好那已經是非常久的事情了\n\n2\n00:00:25,666 --> 00:00:25,986\n我比較在乎的是\n\n3\n00:00:52,402 --> 00:01:20,801\n說實在的這個三金過去可以說是華人圈的一個盛事所以你剛剛特別提到的非常的多元但是呢對於整個影響力跟我那個年代比起來其實是下降的這點部長你應該是同意吧你當初在金馬獎為李安為這個徐發行人還有等等這些的風功其實現在已經是風光不再這是我們必須要接受的事實我比較關切的是接下來金鐘獎特別是你非常熟悉的金馬獎你有信心辦好嗎\n\n4\n00:01:21,561 --> 00:01:24,923\n臺灣的影視發展比如金鐘獎臺灣的劇集這幾年非常精彩我們接受的除了電視之外也接受在OTT上的節目金馬獎我也很有信心\n\n5\n00:01:44,938 --> 00:01:45,958\n李安丹主席、張愛佳、李平平堂主席\n\n6\n00:02:05,404 --> 00:02:05,684\n文化部委員\n\n7\n00:02:25,216 --> 00:02:40,525\n因為我們臺灣的有關這個重症經驗談它是個非常敏感的問題我瞭解所以說這是部長你的決定嗎還是國防部的決定我只問這個問題簡單說我們其實誰都不能決定因為我們有一個那個行政院有一個這個所以是行政院決定的重症經驗談這個轉型正義的匯報\n\n8\n00:02:43,186 --> 00:02:46,889\n所以是他們決定的所以說把這個所謂的儀隊移出去到廣場部長我是為什麼要特別我沒有那麼多政治思考我只覺得這些儀隊你要知道他們曾經在這個曾經有過這個昏倒的記錄你在室內沒有辦法你把他移到廣場這個這麼高溫之下面這是一個非常嚴重的一個問題所以你剛剛說不是你也不是顧立松決定的是你更上層的那個委員會所決定的是不是\n\n9\n00:03:10,185 --> 00:03:10,225\n請問這句話還算數嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:41,946 --> 00:04:04,393\n謝謝你給我這個機會回答我在5月22回答的東西跟現在想法完全一樣因為全世界經過威權統治的法西斯統治的國家非常多他們如何處理那個很敏感的那個紀念碑或者是一個建築物那個東西如果處理得不好的話是繼續撕裂族群所以我會\n\n11\n00:04:07,074 --> 00:04:30,466\n非常小心翼翼的處理不是不是部長你的重點你或許你認為一樣可是我們聽起來重點不一樣因為每個人都會選擇性的去理解選擇性的去暴露然後會選擇性的去接受你上次回答我說你覺得民眾休閒是比較重要的我當時跟你比較肯定而且呢你那時候好特別提到說這個以人道的立場來說三金魚隊不是被大家在政權當中轉來轉去這是你當初的一個立場\n\n12\n00:04:34,828 --> 00:04:58,247\n這個立場其實跟你現在所提到的大家對於這個威權制度各方面部分其實有很大的改變欸一個月來是有很大的改變欸沒有如果你願意給我多一點時間的話我沒有那麼多時間給你我只覺得你是有一些而且我只要提醒你部長我比較在乎的跟你前次所回應的比較知道這是人民休息的一個地方而且你可能不知道中正紀念堂遊客過去曾經比故宮還要多欸\n\n13\n00:05:01,169 --> 00:05:05,192\n曾經是320萬在這個所謂疫情之前兩岸觀光還交流的時候還曾經達到六七百萬曾經算到709萬的這樣的人次大家在去那個地方的時候就是看到儀隊但是對於這個蔣介石的功過大家自有一些的一個解讀不會因為你參觀了一下然後就對於這樣的一個偉人開始是崇拜或是摧毀\n\n14\n00:05:24,964 --> 00:05:25,704\n我覺得有三個面向如果你願意讓我講一點\n\n15\n00:05:44,574 --> 00:06:06,685\n一分鐘因為等一下還有因為我覺得第一個我覺得我們最近有設計到一個讓全台灣年輕人來設計中央紀念堂我覺得歷史是要把它翻過去舊的歷史要翻過去可是不能遺忘翻過去之後大家重新面對新的時代所以最近我會巡迴全台灣展覽所有年輕人對中央紀念堂想像的那個建築物那第二個\n\n16\n00:06:09,045 --> 00:06:24,145\n中正經常要如何解決一個去威懸跟去個人崇拜有幾個方式一個就是我們從周邊的剛剛講到民眾休閒那個環境的改造這是我第二個想法第三個至於我們的這個儀隊如何操\n\n17\n00:06:25,066 --> 00:06:25,126\n李遠列席\n\n18\n00:06:55,006 --> 00:07:14,761\n我想強化保全吧這一點我覺得的確要顧慮到不同族群對同一個事情有不同的看法從過去歷史上看到這種有經過威權是所以你的保全應該就跟國防部的這樣的保護就完全是沒有關係就對了對作為一個政府態度應該是讓他不要衝突不要撕裂我剛剛一直強調說\n\n19\n00:07:15,862 --> 00:07:32,979\n我從近年來講的話到現在的話還是一樣的最重要一件事情就是我們要慎重處理過去的歷史不要遺忘它但是我們也不能夠去為了逃避躲掉它但是最重要是讓過去的歷史仇恨翻過去重新面對新的歷史\n\n20\n00:07:33,559 --> 00:07:33,879\n文化部長李遠列席\n\n21\n00:07:52,329 --> 00:08:11,083\n就是以文化為基準點不要被政治給凌駕然後接下來跟一個比較政治的一個問題就像我們剛剛說的這個清華社你剛剛已經特別提到是聯合報來做一些邀請的那目前大陸駐台大概有6家媒體7名的記者部長就你所理解的部分來說過去清華社到台灣來有或者是從過去跟大陸的媒體到這邊來估計到現在有多少是違規的比例是多少\n\n22\n00:08:20,631 --> 00:08:34,585\n有多少是違規的?跟委員報告新華社的部分並沒有其他的違規情形目前為止並沒有其他違規的一個狀況出現大陸入台那大陸其他大陸駐台的記者嗎?有沒有這樣子的一個記錄?\n\n23\n00:08:36,988 --> 00:08:41,950\n大陸的駐台機車如果在臺灣有識別上的需求像是要租攝影棚或是SNG車在文化部的規定當中是可不可以?\n\n24\n00:08:57,338 --> 00:08:57,959\n所以攝影棚的租借或SNG車在目前來說是在法規上面是OK的?\n\n25\n00:09:16,077 --> 00:09:38,456\n我只是說目前為止很多人想了解台灣的一些的訊息透過這樣的傳輸的管道不要把每個人都當匪諜好不好我真的覺得我們台灣現在已經處處都是匪諜又回到我35年前的時代了不只喔更早以前的時代了因為我們要對台灣的民主要有相當的信心不要把一些事情都把它擴大解讀影射是最傷害的\n\n26\n00:09:39,877 --> 00:09:40,999\n這個我要請文資局的局長跟你解釋一下\n\n27\n00:09:58,218 --> 00:10:23,795\n委員陸港龍山市的彩繪我們在4月份做終止契約的這個決定那現在在進行那個結算的工作結算之後我們會再…局長既然你都上來了我還是要讓部長瞭解一下我真的不想發生什麼事情我們這個局長任國美副館長的時候典藏庫房是解約我們要再次的發保文件會第二處長的時候又是解約再發保\n\n28\n00:10:39,964 --> 00:10:58,940\n為什麼伊聯商一直在粗暴為什麼到底是什麼樣的問題我覺得台灣的文資修復是一個非常復雜的問題中央給錢然後地方來修復這個我們還在真的還在學習中因為台灣有文字概念是很後面的事情我了解可是局長這次發生在你任內你不需要做一些解釋\n\n29\n00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,241\n委員龍山市這個案子主要是團隊那之前的案子有沒有再重復發生\n\n30\n00:11:26,014 --> 00:11:37,715\n跟這每個案例都不一樣每個案例都不一樣但是結果都一樣就叫做解約再發報我想都是按照我們的合約的規定如果不解約那我覺得那是失職\n\n31\n00:11:39,435 --> 00:11:44,896\n這麼多次的狀況部長我今天特別提出來條列這個部分或許你剛上任但是我覺得你一直強調從過去歷史當中學到教訓然後往前走不能回顧過去起碼可以往前看這麼多的例子擺在這個地方特別是鹿港潤山市是承載的非常多鹿港人對於文化的上面的一個精神的一個寄託現在已經延宕兩年了同樣的問題還是在存在請問什麼時候可以讓這個彩繪工程\n\n32\n00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:10,861\n請告訴本席到底問題真正所在還有過去的這些問題當中我們如何從過去的教訓當中得到一個學習的經驗我覺得這才是最重要的好謝謝\n\n33\n00:12:40,104 --> 00:12:40,164\n謝謝謝謝柯志恩\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t3551\t好 謝謝主席 我們請李遠部長好 有請部長柯委員 你好你好 我想我持續剛剛的問題 特別是三經為什麼對這問題特別關切因為我35年前也曾經是金鐘獎的教育文化的主持人好不好不過知道這件事情大概年紀都不小了好不好那已經是非常久的事情了\n25666\t25986\t我比較在乎的是\n52402\t80801\t說實在的這個三金過去可以說是華人圈的一個盛事所以你剛剛特別提到的非常的多元但是呢對於整個影響力跟我那個年代比起來其實是下降的這點部長你應該是同意吧你當初在金馬獎為李安為這個徐發行人還有等等這些的風功其實現在已經是風光不再這是我們必須要接受的事實我比較關切的是接下來金鐘獎特別是你非常熟悉的金馬獎你有信心辦好嗎\n81561\t84923\t臺灣的影視發展比如金鐘獎臺灣的劇集這幾年非常精彩我們接受的除了電視之外也接受在OTT上的節目金馬獎我也很有信心\n104938\t105958\t李安丹主席、張愛佳、李平平堂主席\n125404\t125684\t文化部委員\n145216\t160525\t因為我們臺灣的有關這個重症經驗談它是個非常敏感的問題我瞭解所以說這是部長你的決定嗎還是國防部的決定我只問這個問題簡單說我們其實誰都不能決定因為我們有一個那個行政院有一個這個所以是行政院決定的重症經驗談這個轉型正義的匯報\n163186\t166889\t所以是他們決定的所以說把這個所謂的儀隊移出去到廣場部長我是為什麼要特別我沒有那麼多政治思考我只覺得這些儀隊你要知道他們曾經在這個曾經有過這個昏倒的記錄你在室內沒有辦法你把他移到廣場這個這麼高溫之下面這是一個非常嚴重的一個問題所以你剛剛說不是你也不是顧立松決定的是你更上層的那個委員會所決定的是不是\n190185\t190225\t請問這句話還算數嗎?\n221946\t244393\t謝謝你給我這個機會回答我在5月22回答的東西跟現在想法完全一樣因為全世界經過威權統治的法西斯統治的國家非常多他們如何處理那個很敏感的那個紀念碑或者是一個建築物那個東西如果處理得不好的話是繼續撕裂族群所以我會\n247074\t270466\t非常小心翼翼的處理不是不是部長你的重點你或許你認為一樣可是我們聽起來重點不一樣因為每個人都會選擇性的去理解選擇性的去暴露然後會選擇性的去接受你上次回答我說你覺得民眾休閒是比較重要的我當時跟你比較肯定而且呢你那時候好特別提到說這個以人道的立場來說三金魚隊不是被大家在政權當中轉來轉去這是你當初的一個立場\n274828\t298247\t這個立場其實跟你現在所提到的大家對於這個威權制度各方面部分其實有很大的改變欸一個月來是有很大的改變欸沒有 如果你願意給我多一點時間的話我沒有那麼多時間給你我只覺得你是有一些而且我只要提醒你部長我比較在乎的跟你前次所回應的比較知道這是人民休息的一個地方而且你可能不知道中正紀念堂遊客過去曾經比故宮還要多欸\n301169\t305192\t曾經是320萬在這個所謂疫情之前兩岸觀光還交流的時候還曾經達到六七百萬曾經算到709萬的這樣的人次大家在去那個地方的時候就是看到儀隊但是對於這個蔣介石的功過大家自有一些的一個解讀不會因為你參觀了一下然後就對於這樣的一個偉人開始是崇拜或是摧毀\n324964\t325704\t我覺得有三個面向如果你願意讓我講一點\n344574\t366685\t一分鐘因為等一下還有因為我覺得第一個我覺得我們最近有設計到一個讓全台灣年輕人來設計中央紀念堂我覺得歷史是要把它翻過去舊的歷史要翻過去可是不能遺忘翻過去之後大家重新面對新的時代所以最近我會巡迴全台灣展覽所有年輕人對中央紀念堂想像的那個建築物那第二個\n369045\t384145\t中正經常要如何解決一個去威懸跟去個人崇拜有幾個方式一個就是我們從周邊的剛剛講到民眾休閒那個環境的改造這是我第二個想法第三個至於我們的這個儀隊如何操\n385066\t385126\t李遠列席\n415006\t434761\t我想強化保全吧這一點我覺得的確要顧慮到不同族群對同一個事情有不同的看法從過去歷史上看到這種有經過威權是 所以你的保全應該就跟國防部的這樣的保護就完全是沒有關係就對了對 作為一個政府態度應該是讓他不要衝突不要撕裂我剛剛一直強調說\n435862\t452979\t我從近年來講的話到現在的話還是一樣的最重要一件事情就是我們要慎重處理過去的歷史不要遺忘它但是我們也不能夠去為了逃避躲掉它但是最重要是讓過去的歷史仇恨翻過去重新面對新的歷史\n453559\t453879\t文化部長李遠列席\n472329\t491083\t就是以文化為基準點不要被政治給凌駕然後接下來跟一個比較政治的一個問題就像我們剛剛說的這個清華社你剛剛已經特別提到是聯合報來做一些邀請的那目前大陸駐台大概有6家媒體7名的記者部長就你所理解的部分來說過去清華社到台灣來有或者是從過去跟大陸的媒體到這邊來估計到現在有多少是違規的比例是多少\n500631\t514585\t有多少是違規的?跟委員報告新華社的部分並沒有其他的違規情形目前為止並沒有其他違規的一個狀況出現大陸入台那大陸其他大陸駐台的記者嗎?有沒有這樣子的一個記錄?\n516988\t521950\t大陸的駐台機車如果在臺灣有識別上的需求像是要租攝影棚或是SNG車在文化部的規定當中是可不可以?\n537338\t537959\t所以攝影棚的租借或SNG車在目前來說是在法規上面是OK的?\n556077\t578456\t我只是說目前為止很多人想了解台灣的一些的訊息透過這樣的傳輸的管道不要把每個人都當匪諜好不好我真的覺得我們台灣現在已經處處都是匪諜又回到我35年前的時代了不只喔更早以前的時代了因為我們要對台灣的民主要有相當的信心不要把一些事情都把它擴大解讀影射是最傷害的\n579877\t580999\t這個我要請文資局的局長跟你解釋一下\n598218\t623795\t委員陸港龍山市的彩繪我們在4月份做終止契約的這個決定那現在在進行那個結算的工作結算之後我們會再…局長既然你都上來了我還是要讓部長瞭解一下我真的不想發生什麼事情我們這個局長任國美副館長的時候典藏庫房是解約我們要再次的發保文件會第二處長的時候又是解約再發保\n624275\t638831\t請問﹖\n639964\t658940\t為什麼伊聯商一直在粗暴為什麼到底是什麼樣的問題我覺得台灣的文資修復是一個非常復雜的問題中央給錢然後地方來修復這個我們還在真的還在學習中因為台灣有文字概念是很後面的事情我了解可是局長這次發生在你任內你不需要做一些解釋\n659520\t661241\t委員 龍山市這個案子主要是團隊那之前的案子有沒有再重復發生\n686014\t697715\t跟這每個案例都不一樣每個案例都不一樣但是結果都一樣就叫做解約再發報我想都是按照我們的合約的規定如果不解約那我覺得那是失職\n699435\t704896\t這麼多次的狀況部長我今天特別提出來條列這個部分或許你剛上任但是我覺得你一直強調從過去歷史當中學到教訓然後往前走不能回顧過去起碼可以往前看這麼多的例子擺在這個地方特別是鹿港潤山市是承載的非常多鹿港人對於文化的上面的一個精神的一個寄託現在已經延宕兩年了同樣的問題還是在存在請問什麼時候可以讓這個彩繪工程\n728780\t730861\t請告訴本席到底問題真正所在還有過去的這些問題當中我們如何從過去的教訓當中得到一個學習的經驗我覺得這才是最重要的好 謝謝\n760104\t760164\t謝謝 謝謝柯志恩\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請李遠部長好 有請部長柯委員 你好你好 我想我持續剛剛的問題 特別是三經為什麼對這問題特別關切因為我35年前也曾經是金鐘獎的教育文化的主持人好不好不過知道這件事情大概年紀都不小了好不好那已經是非常久的事情了\n我比較在乎的是\n說實在的這個三金過去可以說是華人圈的一個盛事所以你剛剛特別提到的非常的多元但是呢對於整個影響力跟我那個年代比起來其實是下降的這點部長你應該是同意吧你當初在金馬獎為李安為這個徐發行人還有等等這些的風功其實現在已經是風光不再這是我們必須要接受的事實我比較關切的是接下來金鐘獎特別是你非常熟悉的金馬獎你有信心辦好嗎\n臺灣的影視發展比如金鐘獎臺灣的劇集這幾年非常精彩我們接受的除了電視之外也接受在OTT上的節目金馬獎我也很有信心\n李安丹主席、張愛佳、李平平堂主席\n文化部委員\n因為我們臺灣的有關這個重症經驗談它是個非常敏感的問題我瞭解所以說這是部長你的決定嗎還是國防部的決定我只問這個問題簡單說我們其實誰都不能決定因為我們有一個那個行政院有一個這個所以是行政院決定的重症經驗談這個轉型正義的匯報\n所以是他們決定的所以說把這個所謂的儀隊移出去到廣場部長我是為什麼要特別我沒有那麼多政治思考我只覺得這些儀隊你要知道他們曾經在這個曾經有過這個昏倒的記錄你在室內沒有辦法你把他移到廣場這個這麼高溫之下面這是一個非常嚴重的一個問題所以你剛剛說不是你也不是顧立松決定的是你更上層的那個委員會所決定的是不是\n請問這句話還算數嗎?\n謝謝你給我這個機會回答我在5月22回答的東西跟現在想法完全一樣因為全世界經過威權統治的法西斯統治的國家非常多他們如何處理那個很敏感的那個紀念碑或者是一個建築物那個東西如果處理得不好的話是繼續撕裂族群所以我會\n非常小心翼翼的處理不是不是部長你的重點你或許你認為一樣可是我們聽起來重點不一樣因為每個人都會選擇性的去理解選擇性的去暴露然後會選擇性的去接受你上次回答我說你覺得民眾休閒是比較重要的我當時跟你比較肯定而且呢你那時候好特別提到說這個以人道的立場來說三金魚隊不是被大家在政權當中轉來轉去這是你當初的一個立場\n這個立場其實跟你現在所提到的大家對於這個威權制度各方面部分其實有很大的改變欸一個月來是有很大的改變欸沒有 如果你願意給我多一點時間的話我沒有那麼多時間給你我只覺得你是有一些而且我只要提醒你部長我比較在乎的跟你前次所回應的比較知道這是人民休息的一個地方而且你可能不知道中正紀念堂遊客過去曾經比故宮還要多欸\n曾經是320萬在這個所謂疫情之前兩岸觀光還交流的時候還曾經達到六七百萬曾經算到709萬的這樣的人次大家在去那個地方的時候就是看到儀隊但是對於這個蔣介石的功過大家自有一些的一個解讀不會因為你參觀了一下然後就對於這樣的一個偉人開始是崇拜或是摧毀\n我覺得有三個面向如果你願意讓我講一點\n一分鐘因為等一下還有因為我覺得第一個我覺得我們最近有設計到一個讓全台灣年輕人來設計中央紀念堂我覺得歷史是要把它翻過去舊的歷史要翻過去可是不能遺忘翻過去之後大家重新面對新的時代所以最近我會巡迴全台灣展覽所有年輕人對中央紀念堂想像的那個建築物那第二個\n中正經常要如何解決一個去威懸跟去個人崇拜有幾個方式一個就是我們從周邊的剛剛講到民眾休閒那個環境的改造這是我第二個想法第三個至於我們的這個儀隊如何操\n李遠列席\n我想強化保全吧這一點我覺得的確要顧慮到不同族群對同一個事情有不同的看法從過去歷史上看到這種有經過威權是 所以你的保全應該就跟國防部的這樣的保護就完全是沒有關係就對了對 作為一個政府態度應該是讓他不要衝突不要撕裂我剛剛一直強調說\n我從近年來講的話到現在的話還是一樣的最重要一件事情就是我們要慎重處理過去的歷史不要遺忘它但是我們也不能夠去為了逃避躲掉它但是最重要是讓過去的歷史仇恨翻過去重新面對新的歷史\n文化部長李遠列席\n就是以文化為基準點不要被政治給凌駕然後接下來跟一個比較政治的一個問題就像我們剛剛說的這個清華社你剛剛已經特別提到是聯合報來做一些邀請的那目前大陸駐台大概有6家媒體7名的記者部長就你所理解的部分來說過去清華社到台灣來有或者是從過去跟大陸的媒體到這邊來估計到現在有多少是違規的比例是多少\n有多少是違規的?跟委員報告新華社的部分並沒有其他的違規情形目前為止並沒有其他違規的一個狀況出現大陸入台那大陸其他大陸駐台的記者嗎?有沒有這樣子的一個記錄?\n大陸的駐台機車如果在臺灣有識別上的需求像是要租攝影棚或是SNG車在文化部的規定當中是可不可以?\n所以攝影棚的租借或SNG車在目前來說是在法規上面是OK的?\n我只是說目前為止很多人想了解台灣的一些的訊息透過這樣的傳輸的管道不要把每個人都當匪諜好不好我真的覺得我們台灣現在已經處處都是匪諜又回到我35年前的時代了不只喔更早以前的時代了因為我們要對台灣的民主要有相當的信心不要把一些事情都把它擴大解讀影射是最傷害的\n這個我要請文資局的局長跟你解釋一下\n委員陸港龍山市的彩繪我們在4月份做終止契約的這個決定那現在在進行那個結算的工作結算之後我們會再…局長既然你都上來了我還是要讓部長瞭解一下我真的不想發生什麼事情我們這個局長任國美副館長的時候典藏庫房是解約我們要再次的發保文件會第二處長的時候又是解約再發保\n請問﹖\n為什麼伊聯商一直在粗暴為什麼到底是什麼樣的問題我覺得台灣的文資修復是一個非常復雜的問題中央給錢然後地方來修復這個我們還在真的還在學習中因為台灣有文字概念是很後面的事情我了解可是局長這次發生在你任內你不需要做一些解釋\n委員 龍山市這個案子主要是團隊那之前的案子有沒有再重復發生\n跟這每個案例都不一樣每個案例都不一樣但是結果都一樣就叫做解約再發報我想都是按照我們的合約的規定如果不解約那我覺得那是失職\n這麼多次的狀況部長我今天特別提出來條列這個部分或許你剛上任但是我覺得你一直強調從過去歷史當中學到教訓然後往前走不能回顧過去起碼可以往前看這麼多的例子擺在這個地方特別是鹿港潤山市是承載的非常多鹿港人對於文化的上面的一個精神的一個寄託現在已經延宕兩年了同樣的問題還是在存在請問什麼時候可以讓這個彩繪工程\n請告訴本席到底問題真正所在還有過去的這些問題當中我們如何從過去的教訓當中得到一個學習的經驗我覺得這才是最重要的好 謝謝\n謝謝 謝謝柯志恩\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:03.551\n好謝謝主席我們請李遠部長好有請部長柯委員你好你好我想我持續剛剛的問題特別是三經為什麼對這問題特別關切因為我35年前也曾經是金鐘獎的教育文化的主持人好不好不過知道這件事情大概年紀都不小了好不好那已經是非常久的事情了\n\n00:25.666 --> 00:25.986\n我比較在乎的是\n\n00:52.402 --> 01:20.801\n說實在的這個三金過去可以說是華人圈的一個盛事所以你剛剛特別提到的非常的多元但是呢對於整個影響力跟我那個年代比起來其實是下降的這點部長你應該是同意吧你當初在金馬獎為李安為這個徐發行人還有等等這些的風功其實現在已經是風光不再這是我們必須要接受的事實我比較關切的是接下來金鐘獎特別是你非常熟悉的金馬獎你有信心辦好嗎\n\n01:21.561 --> 01:24.923\n臺灣的影視發展比如金鐘獎臺灣的劇集這幾年非常精彩我們接受的除了電視之外也接受在OTT上的節目金馬獎我也很有信心\n\n01:44.938 --> 01:45.958\n李安丹主席、張愛佳、李平平堂主席\n\n02:05.404 --> 02:05.684\n文化部委員\n\n02:25.216 --> 02:40.525\n因為我們臺灣的有關這個重症經驗談它是個非常敏感的問題我瞭解所以說這是部長你的決定嗎還是國防部的決定我只問這個問題簡單說我們其實誰都不能決定因為我們有一個那個行政院有一個這個所以是行政院決定的重症經驗談這個轉型正義的匯報\n\n02:43.186 --> 02:46.889\n所以是他們決定的所以說把這個所謂的儀隊移出去到廣場部長我是為什麼要特別我沒有那麼多政治思考我只覺得這些儀隊你要知道他們曾經在這個曾經有過這個昏倒的記錄你在室內沒有辦法你把他移到廣場這個這麼高溫之下面這是一個非常嚴重的一個問題所以你剛剛說不是你也不是顧立松決定的是你更上層的那個委員會所決定的是不是\n\n03:10.185 --> 03:10.225\n請問這句話還算數嗎?\n\n03:41.946 --> 04:04.393\n謝謝你給我這個機會回答我在5月22回答的東西跟現在想法完全一樣因為全世界經過威權統治的法西斯統治的國家非常多他們如何處理那個很敏感的那個紀念碑或者是一個建築物那個東西如果處理得不好的話是繼續撕裂族群所以我會\n\n04:07.074 --> 04:30.466\n非常小心翼翼的處理不是不是部長你的重點你或許你認為一樣可是我們聽起來重點不一樣因為每個人都會選擇性的去理解選擇性的去暴露然後會選擇性的去接受你上次回答我說你覺得民眾休閒是比較重要的我當時跟你比較肯定而且呢你那時候好特別提到說這個以人道的立場來說三金魚隊不是被大家在政權當中轉來轉去這是你當初的一個立場\n\n04:34.828 --> 04:58.247\n這個立場其實跟你現在所提到的大家對於這個威權制度各方面部分其實有很大的改變欸一個月來是有很大的改變欸沒有如果你願意給我多一點時間的話我沒有那麼多時間給你我只覺得你是有一些而且我只要提醒你部長我比較在乎的跟你前次所回應的比較知道這是人民休息的一個地方而且你可能不知道中正紀念堂遊客過去曾經比故宮還要多欸\n\n05:01.169 --> 05:05.192\n曾經是320萬在這個所謂疫情之前兩岸觀光還交流的時候還曾經達到六七百萬曾經算到709萬的這樣的人次大家在去那個地方的時候就是看到儀隊但是對於這個蔣介石的功過大家自有一些的一個解讀不會因為你參觀了一下然後就對於這樣的一個偉人開始是崇拜或是摧毀\n\n05:24.964 --> 05:25.704\n我覺得有三個面向如果你願意讓我講一點\n\n05:44.574 --> 06:06.685\n一分鐘因為等一下還有因為我覺得第一個我覺得我們最近有設計到一個讓全台灣年輕人來設計中央紀念堂我覺得歷史是要把它翻過去舊的歷史要翻過去可是不能遺忘翻過去之後大家重新面對新的時代所以最近我會巡迴全台灣展覽所有年輕人對中央紀念堂想像的那個建築物那第二個\n\n06:09.045 --> 06:24.145\n中正經常要如何解決一個去威懸跟去個人崇拜有幾個方式一個就是我們從周邊的剛剛講到民眾休閒那個環境的改造這是我第二個想法第三個至於我們的這個儀隊如何操\n\n06:25.066 --> 06:25.126\n李遠列席\n\n06:55.006 --> 07:14.761\n我想強化保全吧這一點我覺得的確要顧慮到不同族群對同一個事情有不同的看法從過去歷史上看到這種有經過威權是所以你的保全應該就跟國防部的這樣的保護就完全是沒有關係就對了對作為一個政府態度應該是讓他不要衝突不要撕裂我剛剛一直強調說\n\n07:15.862 --> 07:32.979\n我從近年來講的話到現在的話還是一樣的最重要一件事情就是我們要慎重處理過去的歷史不要遺忘它但是我們也不能夠去為了逃避躲掉它但是最重要是讓過去的歷史仇恨翻過去重新面對新的歷史\n\n07:33.559 --> 07:33.879\n文化部長李遠列席\n\n07:52.329 --> 08:11.083\n就是以文化為基準點不要被政治給凌駕然後接下來跟一個比較政治的一個問題就像我們剛剛說的這個清華社你剛剛已經特別提到是聯合報來做一些邀請的那目前大陸駐台大概有6家媒體7名的記者部長就你所理解的部分來說過去清華社到台灣來有或者是從過去跟大陸的媒體到這邊來估計到現在有多少是違規的比例是多少\n\n08:20.631 --> 08:34.585\n有多少是違規的?跟委員報告新華社的部分並沒有其他的違規情形目前為止並沒有其他違規的一個狀況出現大陸入台那大陸其他大陸駐台的記者嗎?有沒有這樣子的一個記錄?\n\n08:36.988 --> 08:41.950\n大陸的駐台機車如果在臺灣有識別上的需求像是要租攝影棚或是SNG車在文化部的規定當中是可不可以?\n\n08:57.338 --> 08:57.959\n所以攝影棚的租借或SNG車在目前來說是在法規上面是OK的?\n\n09:16.077 --> 09:38.456\n我只是說目前為止很多人想了解台灣的一些的訊息透過這樣的傳輸的管道不要把每個人都當匪諜好不好我真的覺得我們台灣現在已經處處都是匪諜又回到我35年前的時代了不只喔更早以前的時代了因為我們要對台灣的民主要有相當的信心不要把一些事情都把它擴大解讀影射是最傷害的\n\n09:39.877 --> 09:40.999\n這個我要請文資局的局長跟你解釋一下\n\n09:58.218 --> 10:23.795\n委員陸港龍山市的彩繪我們在4月份做終止契約的這個決定那現在在進行那個結算的工作結算之後我們會再…局長既然你都上來了我還是要讓部長瞭解一下我真的不想發生什麼事情我們這個局長任國美副館長的時候典藏庫房是解約我們要再次的發保文件會第二處長的時候又是解約再發保\n\n10:39.964 --> 10:58.940\n為什麼伊聯商一直在粗暴為什麼到底是什麼樣的問題我覺得台灣的文資修復是一個非常復雜的問題中央給錢然後地方來修復這個我們還在真的還在學習中因為台灣有文字概念是很後面的事情我了解可是局長這次發生在你任內你不需要做一些解釋\n\n10:59.520 --> 11:01.241\n委員龍山市這個案子主要是團隊那之前的案子有沒有再重復發生\n\n11:26.014 --> 11:37.715\n跟這每個案例都不一樣每個案例都不一樣但是結果都一樣就叫做解約再發報我想都是按照我們的合約的規定如果不解約那我覺得那是失職\n\n11:39.435 --> 11:44.896\n這麼多次的狀況部長我今天特別提出來條列這個部分或許你剛上任但是我覺得你一直強調從過去歷史當中學到教訓然後往前走不能回顧過去起碼可以往前看這麼多的例子擺在這個地方特別是鹿港潤山市是承載的非常多鹿港人對於文化的上面的一個精神的一個寄託現在已經延宕兩年了同樣的問題還是在存在請問什麼時候可以讓這個彩繪工程\n\n12:08.780 --> 12:10.861\n請告訴本席到底問題真正所在還有過去的這些問題當中我們如何從過去的教訓當中得到一個學習的經驗我覺得這才是最重要的好謝謝\n\n12:40.104 --> 12:40.164\n謝謝謝謝柯志恩\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":3.551,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請李遠部長好 有請部長柯委員 你好你好 我想我持續剛剛的問題 特別是三經為什麼對這問題特別關切因為我35年前也曾經是金鐘獎的教育文化的主持人好不好不過知道這件事情大概年紀都不小了好不好那已經是非常久的事情了"},{"start":25.666,"end":25.986,"text":"我比較在乎的是"},{"start":52.402,"end":80.801,"text":"說實在的這個三金過去可以說是華人圈的一個盛事所以你剛剛特別提到的非常的多元但是呢對於整個影響力跟我那個年代比起來其實是下降的這點部長你應該是同意吧你當初在金馬獎為李安為這個徐發行人還有等等這些的風功其實現在已經是風光不再這是我們必須要接受的事實我比較關切的是接下來金鐘獎特別是你非常熟悉的金馬獎你有信心辦好嗎"},{"start":81.561,"end":84.923,"text":"臺灣的影視發展比如金鐘獎臺灣的劇集這幾年非常精彩我們接受的除了電視之外也接受在OTT上的節目金馬獎我也很有信心"},{"start":104.938,"end":105.958,"text":"李安丹主席、張愛佳、李平平堂主席"},{"start":125.404,"end":125.684,"text":"文化部委員"},{"start":145.216,"end":160.525,"text":"因為我們臺灣的有關這個重症經驗談它是個非常敏感的問題我瞭解所以說這是部長你的決定嗎還是國防部的決定我只問這個問題簡單說我們其實誰都不能決定因為我們有一個那個行政院有一個這個所以是行政院決定的重症經驗談這個轉型正義的匯報"},{"start":163.186,"end":166.889,"text":"所以是他們決定的所以說把這個所謂的儀隊移出去到廣場部長我是為什麼要特別我沒有那麼多政治思考我只覺得這些儀隊你要知道他們曾經在這個曾經有過這個昏倒的記錄你在室內沒有辦法你把他移到廣場這個這麼高溫之下面這是一個非常嚴重的一個問題所以你剛剛說不是你也不是顧立松決定的是你更上層的那個委員會所決定的是不是"},{"start":190.185,"end":190.225,"text":"請問這句話還算數嗎?"},{"start":221.946,"end":244.393,"text":"謝謝你給我這個機會回答我在5月22回答的東西跟現在想法完全一樣因為全世界經過威權統治的法西斯統治的國家非常多他們如何處理那個很敏感的那個紀念碑或者是一個建築物那個東西如果處理得不好的話是繼續撕裂族群所以我會"},{"start":247.074,"end":270.466,"text":"非常小心翼翼的處理不是不是部長你的重點你或許你認為一樣可是我們聽起來重點不一樣因為每個人都會選擇性的去理解選擇性的去暴露然後會選擇性的去接受你上次回答我說你覺得民眾休閒是比較重要的我當時跟你比較肯定而且呢你那時候好特別提到說這個以人道的立場來說三金魚隊不是被大家在政權當中轉來轉去這是你當初的一個立場"},{"start":274.828,"end":298.247,"text":"這個立場其實跟你現在所提到的大家對於這個威權制度各方面部分其實有很大的改變欸一個月來是有很大的改變欸沒有 如果你願意給我多一點時間的話我沒有那麼多時間給你我只覺得你是有一些而且我只要提醒你部長我比較在乎的跟你前次所回應的比較知道這是人民休息的一個地方而且你可能不知道中正紀念堂遊客過去曾經比故宮還要多欸"},{"start":301.169,"end":305.192,"text":"曾經是320萬在這個所謂疫情之前兩岸觀光還交流的時候還曾經達到六七百萬曾經算到709萬的這樣的人次大家在去那個地方的時候就是看到儀隊但是對於這個蔣介石的功過大家自有一些的一個解讀不會因為你參觀了一下然後就對於這樣的一個偉人開始是崇拜或是摧毀"},{"start":324.964,"end":325.704,"text":"我覺得有三個面向如果你願意讓我講一點"},{"start":344.574,"end":366.685,"text":"一分鐘因為等一下還有因為我覺得第一個我覺得我們最近有設計到一個讓全台灣年輕人來設計中央紀念堂我覺得歷史是要把它翻過去舊的歷史要翻過去可是不能遺忘翻過去之後大家重新面對新的時代所以最近我會巡迴全台灣展覽所有年輕人對中央紀念堂想像的那個建築物那第二個"},{"start":369.045,"end":384.145,"text":"中正經常要如何解決一個去威懸跟去個人崇拜有幾個方式一個就是我們從周邊的剛剛講到民眾休閒那個環境的改造這是我第二個想法第三個至於我們的這個儀隊如何操"},{"start":385.066,"end":385.126,"text":"李遠列席"},{"start":415.006,"end":434.761,"text":"我想強化保全吧這一點我覺得的確要顧慮到不同族群對同一個事情有不同的看法從過去歷史上看到這種有經過威權是 所以你的保全應該就跟國防部的這樣的保護就完全是沒有關係就對了對 作為一個政府態度應該是讓他不要衝突不要撕裂我剛剛一直強調說"},{"start":435.862,"end":452.979,"text":"我從近年來講的話到現在的話還是一樣的最重要一件事情就是我們要慎重處理過去的歷史不要遺忘它但是我們也不能夠去為了逃避躲掉它但是最重要是讓過去的歷史仇恨翻過去重新面對新的歷史"},{"start":453.559,"end":453.879,"text":"文化部長李遠列席"},{"start":472.329,"end":491.083,"text":"就是以文化為基準點不要被政治給凌駕然後接下來跟一個比較政治的一個問題就像我們剛剛說的這個清華社你剛剛已經特別提到是聯合報來做一些邀請的那目前大陸駐台大概有6家媒體7名的記者部長就你所理解的部分來說過去清華社到台灣來有或者是從過去跟大陸的媒體到這邊來估計到現在有多少是違規的比例是多少"},{"start":500.631,"end":514.585,"text":"有多少是違規的?跟委員報告新華社的部分並沒有其他的違規情形目前為止並沒有其他違規的一個狀況出現大陸入台那大陸其他大陸駐台的記者嗎?有沒有這樣子的一個記錄?"},{"start":516.988,"end":521.95,"text":"大陸的駐台機車如果在臺灣有識別上的需求像是要租攝影棚或是SNG車在文化部的規定當中是可不可以?"},{"start":537.338,"end":537.959,"text":"所以攝影棚的租借或SNG車在目前來說是在法規上面是OK的?"},{"start":556.077,"end":578.456,"text":"我只是說目前為止很多人想了解台灣的一些的訊息透過這樣的傳輸的管道不要把每個人都當匪諜好不好我真的覺得我們台灣現在已經處處都是匪諜又回到我35年前的時代了不只喔更早以前的時代了因為我們要對台灣的民主要有相當的信心不要把一些事情都把它擴大解讀影射是最傷害的"},{"start":579.877,"end":580.999,"text":"這個我要請文資局的局長跟你解釋一下"},{"start":598.218,"end":623.795,"text":"委員陸港龍山市的彩繪我們在4月份做終止契約的這個決定那現在在進行那個結算的工作結算之後我們會再…局長既然你都上來了我還是要讓部長瞭解一下我真的不想發生什麼事情我們這個局長任國美副館長的時候典藏庫房是解約我們要再次的發保文件會第二處長的時候又是解約再發保"},{"start":624.275,"end":638.831,"text":"請問﹖"},{"start":639.964,"end":658.94,"text":"為什麼伊聯商一直在粗暴為什麼到底是什麼樣的問題我覺得台灣的文資修復是一個非常復雜的問題中央給錢然後地方來修復這個我們還在真的還在學習中因為台灣有文字概念是很後面的事情我了解可是局長這次發生在你任內你不需要做一些解釋"},{"start":659.52,"end":661.241,"text":"委員 龍山市這個案子主要是團隊那之前的案子有沒有再重復發生"},{"start":686.014,"end":697.715,"text":"跟這每個案例都不一樣每個案例都不一樣但是結果都一樣就叫做解約再發報我想都是按照我們的合約的規定如果不解約那我覺得那是失職"},{"start":699.435,"end":704.896,"text":"這麼多次的狀況部長我今天特別提出來條列這個部分或許你剛上任但是我覺得你一直強調從過去歷史當中學到教訓然後往前走不能回顧過去起碼可以往前看這麼多的例子擺在這個地方特別是鹿港潤山市是承載的非常多鹿港人對於文化的上面的一個精神的一個寄託現在已經延宕兩年了同樣的問題還是在存在請問什麼時候可以讓這個彩繪工程"},{"start":728.78,"end":730.861,"text":"請告訴本席到底問題真正所在還有過去的這些問題當中我們如何從過去的教訓當中得到一個學習的經驗我覺得這才是最重要的好 謝謝"},{"start":760.104,"end":760.164,"text":"謝謝 謝謝柯志恩"}]}}}}