{"id":154447,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154447","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bdd37392fa7197c0cccb3f5941fe168625dc75a2b8c9f1b70642ffa54afed2a8c25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"09:32:45 - 09:44:38","影片長度":"00:11:53","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲就「如何促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設，加速建設之推動。」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。\n二、繼續審查本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。\n【7月3日及4日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T09:32:45+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T09:44:38+08:00","duration":713,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-20"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":197,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（9時32分）主席，麻煩請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員早。"],["吳委員秉叡：主委早。延續剛剛的那個話題，現在有人提出這個修法，要把海外的配置從45%降到25%。第一個，條文裡面沒有看到實施多久之內要降下來，假設退一萬步講，就是這個法律通過要降下來，這樣回來臺灣的資產大概會多少？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，現在我們壽險業的總體資產大概三十二兆元左右，剛剛提到，我們現在如果以這樣的額度下來的話，我們估計大概必須減少九兆多的金額，那也代表說，如果這樣調降的話，壽險業必須立刻做將近九兆元左右的資產配置改變。"],["吳委員秉叡：稍待一下，請嚴副總裁。"],["主席：請嚴副總裁。"],["吳委員秉叡：副總裁，剛剛彭主委的說明你有聽到吧？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：有。"],["吳委員秉叡：如果法律降成25%，會有九兆多臺幣要回來臺灣，從外國的資產變賣九兆多的臺幣回來臺灣，有關臺灣的通貨，第一個，國內多九兆的通貨，中央銀行如何處理？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：報告委員，我從另外一個角度去思考這個問題好了，臺灣是一個經常在順差的國家，基本上經常在順差的國家應該是讓我們的資金投資到國外，所以不管是保險業或者是政府基金，其實大量資金是投資在國外，這是在平衡我們國內經濟的一個很重要……"],["吳委員秉叡：對，這個我瞭解，我只是問你，如果突然之間九兆的臺幣要回來臺灣，新臺幣會升值很多吧？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：要看他的……"],["吳委員秉叡：因為外國的貨幣要購買新臺幣才能回來臺灣啊，突然之間要買9兆的新臺幣，那要賣多少的外幣？那購買新臺幣，新臺幣就會變得非常搶手，我估計至少要漲到二十四、五塊或二十五、六塊，就是兌換一美元嘛！"],["嚴副總裁宗大：而且國內債券市場的規模也沒有那麼大的容納量，所以這也都是很多延伸出來……"],["吳委員秉叡：第二個，因為新臺幣突然之間走這麼強，美國會不會認為我們臺灣在操縱貨幣、操縱匯率？是不是有這樣的可能性？"],["嚴副總裁宗大：我想那是假設性的。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，那你請回座。"],["嚴副總裁宗大：謝謝。"],["吳委員秉叡：我是說退一萬步，萬一法律通過的話啦！我再繼續請教彭主委。"],["主席：副總裁請回，請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝。"],["吳委員秉叡：彭主委，這個回來不是那麼簡單，回來國內之後要幹嘛？突然之間9兆元回來，他也不能夠放在家裡，不能夠鎖在金庫、放在銀行啊！在資金氾濫之後，要有投資標的啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：那要投入股市嗎？投入房市嗎？這樣股市、房市不是就在短期之間有9兆的資金像大水漫灌，會不得了啊！那可能不是2萬3,000點，可能是3萬3,000點、4萬3,000點，如果硬要把它丟進來的話，會不會有這樣的可能性？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在保險業投在海外的資產大部分都是長期的投資在有固定收益、特別是長期的債券上面，很多是要獲取長期、穩定的報酬，如果說真的回來，誠如剛才央行副總裁所提到的，臺灣確實應該是整體債市的規模可能也差不多是這個金額而已，所以現在也很難容納，在進來以後會走到什麼地方去，其實這個很難預期，雖然保險法對於各種投資工具都有一定上限的規定，可是畢竟像股票、不動產都是保險業可以投資的項目，而且這些也都不用經過核准，這樣就會形成他未來資金去路上面的一個疑慮。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以的確有這樣潛在的危險性，只是說程度可能沒有像我形容的這麼極端。再來，我再請教一個問題，以美國的債券為例，美國的國債在世界上是一個很大的市場，有很多的投資標的都會投資美債，尤其是美國發行的國家公債因為最近所謂的暴力升息，所以那些舊的、在以前發行的長債，現在在債券市場都是大幅的跌價嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，是有重大的未實現損失。"],["吳委員秉叡：如果我持有債券，譬如說10年期的債券，我持有到10年的時候可以還本，這10年的利率我都要給你拿，我至少在第10年要到期的時候會回本，不會賠錢嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：但是你如果中途突然之間叫我得解約、得賣，我得在現在的債券市場上賣出的時候，我要蒙受巨大的損失啊！如果我們臺灣的保險業必須要在短期之內趕快拋售美債的話，你們有沒有估算過我們的保險業會受到多大的損失？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實這個數字我們初估差不多大概……因為我們投資在海外的這個比例，投資在固收上面應該超過七、八成以上，那以剛剛那個額度乘一下，其實我們在過去20年來利率的水準，實際上，我們也面對到剛才講的，就是現在馬上可能要逐步降息，那這些保險業購買這些長期債券，都是為了持有到期、獲取報酬，其實在這個評價確實會誠如委員講的，如果現在很快的做final sale，就是我們這樣去把它拋售，確實影響的層面會非常的大，雖然我們現在沒有細緻的數字，但是應該是一個非常大的數字。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，那你知道嗎？臺灣的這些保險公司有的是在金控底下，有的是保險公司，他們都是股票上市公司，有沒有估算過有多少投資人？有百萬以上的投資人吧！就是持有股票的所有權人。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["吳委員秉叡：那我要請你們小心一件事情，你這個如果隨便做，這些股票的投資人覺得因為政府的政策讓他們蒙受巨大的損失，他們會包圍金管會，你要怎麼辦？幾十萬人去包圍你們說：突然之間莫名其妙，害我賠錢哪！政府怎麼可以這樣做？那時候你要如何處理呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以金管會對這樣的調整是持保留的態度，我們覺得還是不要做這樣的調動會比較符合現行的經營狀況。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，那我瞭解你的立場了，請你回座。請財政部莊部長跟促參司的李司長。"],["主席：請莊部長還有李司長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["吳委員秉叡：部長早、司長早。部長，剛剛談了很多，在裡面就提到其實還有很多的資金可以投入在臺灣的公共建設，那當然促參是其中的一個方法，不是全部的方法，是一個重要的方法，那你有沒有歸納一下，為什麼鼓勵了這麼多年，金額還是占這麼小的比例呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，第一個就是案源，也就是說，我們必須要有更多的公共建設、讓保險業資金可以投入的案源；第二個就是說過往我們相關的法規對保險業資金的相關投資有一些限制，但是金管會已經修正相關法令的規定，對於保險業投入公共建設，比如說，在董監事派任的席次上有所放寬，所以這個部分在……"],["吳委員秉叡：這個剛剛在報告裡面都有了，不用再重複。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，那案源的部分是我們要繼續跨部會一起來做努力，就財政部來說，我們是鼓勵以及協助各目的事業主管機關對於它所要做的公建儘量以促參的模式來做，那我們財政部就是要去優化有關的法制環境，以及對於履約爭議能夠加速的協調、處理，這樣來讓投資者更有信心。"],["吳委員秉叡：我跟你交換意見，我從處理這個政策跟民眾陳情的內容，我跟你報告，李司長是一個很傑出的人才，他對這個法令的解釋、觀念是很清楚，那麼現在的問題是在哪裡？我提出我的看法來跟你討教，看看你認不認同，最主要的就是我們臺灣整個公務體系還有整個社會很怕人家賺錢，所以其實今天講保險業必須要投入這些東西，他就必須要有一定的獲利空間，簡單說，人家在做生意，人家的資金是要本錢的、是有成本的，那你如果叫人家做這些東西，卻不讓人家有賺錢的空間，那人家為什麼要來做呢？還有別的地方可以賺啊！這條溪沒有魚，我去別條溪釣，我不一定要在這條溪釣魚，這不是我唯一的選擇。但是問題是臺灣從上到下、從公務員到整個社會，只要商人賺錢，就認為這個是圖利商人，你們就是圖利商人的政府啦！對你們這個政府就是要來抓弊，所以我們要成立調查委員會，把你們這些人都抓來問，如果你不來的話，我要給你罰錢啦！臺灣是不是就是這樣的觀念？所以大家說政府那一塊不要去觸碰，我跟私人來往，我怎麼賺都跟你沒有關係，我只要繳稅就好了嘛！那如果我跟政府之間有什麼公共建設的往來、促參的往來，然後有賺到錢，那就該死了，檢察官要來查，立法委員要來查，大家都要來揭弊、都要來打弊案啦！到底是不是弊案還沒有講清楚就先扣帽子、就先成立調查委員會嘛！我覺得這對於促參是一個非常錯誤的觀念，這樣哪裡叫促參？這個就是為了要防弊案而防止人家投資啊！怎麼有促參的觀念？你說是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒錯，確實是像委員講的，但是這個部分的觀念應該要去做改變，第一個就是應該要有一個合理的利潤，然後民間來投資才有誘因，就是要有合理的利潤；第二個就是打破所謂的政府是零出資這樣的觀念，所以在我們修法以後，有一個所謂政府購買公共服務這樣的新機制。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，李司長，你回答一下，因為你在促參司這麼久，你的觀念很正確，你是不是說明一下對我剛剛講的是不是也稍有同感？"],["李司長建賢：報告委員，謝謝您剛剛的引導，其實的確這是一方面的問題，但是以促參司的立場，我想我們是從兩個部分，一個是鼓勵，一個是協助，那在鼓勵的部分，我們現在是鼓勵各機關，除了原有的交通建設或者是觀光遊憩、商業設施這些可以做促參之外，我們也希望各部會的這些主管單位能夠包括我們現在最需要的長照、醫療，甚至像社會住宅這方面，其實它後面的需求量都很大，也符合我們現在社會發展的趨勢，那這些部會是不是可以往這個方向來思考？"],["吳委員秉叡：好，加油啦！因為我們多了一些投資的管道，讓社會往正確的觀念、方向走，這些都是未來國家要繼續健全、繼續壯大的重要原因，大家一起努力，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接著請賴士葆賴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-20","speakers":["羅明才","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李坤城","賴惠員","顏寬恒","王鴻薇","李彥秀","黃珊珊","王世堅","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","林楚茵","鍾佳濱","吳春城","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-07-03"],"gazette_id":"1136901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲就「如何促進保險業資金擴大\n參與公共建設，加速建設之推動。」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員\n會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢；二、繼續審查本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六\n條之四條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"154447","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154447","tool":"pyannote","id":"154447-pyannote"},"job_id":"LtUjByLycXKctksV","queued_at":"2024-07-03 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\"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,583 --> 00:00:16,263\n主席麻煩請金管會彭主委彭主委委員早主委早延續剛剛的話題現在有人提出修法要把海外的配置從45%降到25%\n\n2\n00:00:18,066 --> 00:00:30,573\n那第一個條文裡面沒有看到實施多久之內要降下來那假設退院不講究法律通過要降下來這樣回來台灣的資產大概會多少\n\n3\n00:00:31,141 --> 00:00:55,646\n報告委員現在我們受險業的總體資產大概32兆元左右剛剛提到就是說我們現在如果說以這樣一個額度下來的話我們估計大概是9兆多的金額會必須減少那等於說也代表說那個如果這樣的調降的話受險業必須立刻做將近9兆元左右的資產配置的改變稍待一下請嚴副總裁請嚴副總裁\n\n4\n00:01:05,188 --> 00:01:25,602\n副董,你剛剛彭主委的說明你有聽到,如果法律降成政治25%,要有9兆多的台幣要回來台灣,從外國的資產變賣9兆多的台幣回來台灣,台灣的通貨,第一個國內多9兆的通貨,中央銀行如何處理?\n\n5\n00:01:28,157 --> 00:01:48,795\n報告委員基本上因為我從另外一個角度去思考這個問題好了台灣是一個經常在順差的國家基本上經常在順差的國家應該是讓我們的資金投資到國外所以不管是保險業或者是我們政府基金或者是其實大量的資金是投資在國外這是在\n\n6\n00:01:49,275 --> 00:01:49,295\n蘇貞昌議員\n\n7\n00:02:15,430 --> 00:02:30,874\n而且國內的債券市場的規模也沒有那麼大的容納量所以這也都是很多延伸出來的第二個會不會因為這樣的突然之間的高額升新台幣突然之間走這麼強美國會不會認為我們台灣在操縱貨幣操縱匯率\n\n8\n00:02:34,815 --> 00:03:03,507\n是否有這樣的可能性?呃...我想那是假設性的,對阿好,那你請回座喔,因為我是說萬一退一萬步法律通過的話啦我再繼續請教彭主委請彭主委是,謝謝彭主委,這個回來不是那麼簡單欸國內回來之後要幹嘛?突然之間九兆元回來他也不能說放在家裡阿不能說鎖在金庫阿放在銀行阿除了資金氾濫之後要有投資標的阿是\n\n9\n00:03:05,486 --> 00:03:22,304\n投入股市嗎?投入房市嗎?這樣股市房市不是就被短期間用9兆的資金大水漫灌那不得了啊那可能不是兩萬三千點啦可能三萬三千點、四萬三千點如果硬要把它丟進來的話\n\n10\n00:03:24,717 --> 00:03:52,499\n會不會有這樣的可能性?就是說以現在保險業投資在海外的資產大部分都是長期的投資在固定收益特別是長期的債券上面他們很多是要獲取長期穩定的報酬那如果說真的回來剛才陳儒剛才央行副總裁所提到的台灣確實應該是整體的債市的規模可能也差不多這個金額而已那現在也很難容納那進來以後可以\n\n11\n00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:54,040\n所以的確有這樣的潛在的危險性\n\n12\n00:04:14,790 --> 00:04:39,348\n再來只是說程度可能沒有像我形容的這麼極端再來我就請教一個問題我們很多保險會與美國的債券為例美國的國債是一個世界上很大的市場那很多的投資標的都會投資美債那美國的尤其是美國國家發行的公債因為最近這個所謂的暴力升息是它舊的那些債長期長債\n\n13\n00:04:41,770 --> 00:04:41,950\n委員會主席\n\n14\n00:05:01,138 --> 00:05:01,579\n委員會主席\n\n15\n00:05:21,597 --> 00:05:42,519\n其實這個數字我們用差不多初估大概因為我們在投資在海外這個比例投資在固收上面應該超過七八成以上那以剛剛那個額度乘一下那其實我們過去在過去20年來利率的水準那實際上我們也面對到剛剛講說現在馬上就可能要逐步降息\n\n16\n00:05:43,200 --> 00:06:09,838\n那這些保險業購買這些長期債券都是為了持有到期、獲取報酬。其實這個評價,確實會成如委員講的,如果現在很快地做finesale,就是我們這樣去把它拋售,確實會影響層面非常的大。那個金額其實,雖然我們現在沒有細緻的數字,但是應該是非常大的一個數字。好,那你知道嗎,台灣的這些保險公司,有的是在金控底下,有的是保險公司,他們都是股票上市公司欸。\n\n17\n00:06:11,195 --> 00:06:21,936\n投資人有沒有估算過多少投資人?上百萬以上的投資人吧?持有股票的所有捐贈啊?我要請你要小心一個事情,你這個如果隨便做\n\n18\n00:06:23,131 --> 00:06:26,433\n金管會對這樣的一個調整我們是持保留的態度是我們覺得還是不要做這樣的調動會比較符合現行的我們經營的狀況\n\n19\n00:06:51,405 --> 00:06:59,692\n那瞭解你的立場,請你回座,請財政部莊部長跟我們促參司理事長請莊部長、理事長委員好部長早,市長早,部長\n\n20\n00:07:10,395 --> 00:07:30,644\n剛剛談了很多,裡面就提到說其實還有很多的資金可以投入在台灣的公共建設那當然,促參是其中的一個方法,不是全部的方法是一個重要的方法那你有沒有歸納一下為什麼鼓勵了這麼多年還是金額比例還是佔這麼小的比例勒?\n\n21\n00:07:31,768 --> 00:07:52,595\n跟委員報告第一個就是案源也就是說我們必須要有更多的一個公共建設的讓保險業資金可以投入的一個案源那第二個就是說過往保險業也就是說我們相關的法規對保險業資金的一些相關投資有些限制但是金管會已經修正相關法令的規定\n\n22\n00:07:53,295 --> 00:08:20,465\n對於保險業突入公共建設比如說在董建市的一個派的席次上也有所放寬所以這個部分在...這個剛剛報告裡面都有了不用重複了對那案源的部分那是要我們繼續就是說跨部會一起來做努力那就財政部來說我們是鼓勵以及協助各目的事業主管機關對於他所要做的公建盡量是以促參的模式來做那我們財政部就是要去優化有關的法制的環境以及對於履約爭議\n\n23\n00:08:21,565 --> 00:08:47,402\n可以能夠加速的協調處理,這樣讓投資者有更有信心。我跟你交換意見,我從處理這個政策跟民眾陳情內,我跟你報告,理事長是一個很傑出的人才,他對這個法令的解釋東西觀念是很清楚。他現在問題是在哪裡,我覺得啦,我跟你討教看看你認不認同,最主要是我們台灣整個公務體系還有整個社會,很怕人家賺錢。\n\n24\n00:08:49,437 --> 00:09:03,509\n所以其實今天講保險業必須要投入這些東西他就必須要有一定的獲利空間簡單講人家做生意人家的資金是有本錢的嘛有成本的嘛那你如果叫人家做這些東西不讓人家有賺錢的空間\n\n25\n00:09:04,770 --> 00:09:06,031\n那人家為什麼要來做呢?\n\n26\n00:09:06,031 --> 00:09:16,777\n我有別的地方可以賺啊!這K沒錢把K中我不一定要中這K我不是說我唯一選擇但是問題是台灣從上到下從公務員到整個社會喔!\n\n27\n00:09:16,777 --> 00:09:29,104\n只要商人賺錢這個就是圖利商人啦!你們這個就是圖利的政府啦!所以你們這個政府就是要來捉弊啦!所以我們要成立調查委員會把你們這些人都捉來問啦!你不來的話我要給你罰錢啦!\n\n28\n00:09:32,972 --> 00:09:49,017\n是不是台灣就是這樣的觀念,所以大家說政府委員會不要去報、不要去報、不要去吸我跟書信那樣我怎麼談,沒有你的關聯,我就挑水就好了嘛如果跟政府之間有什麼樣子的公共建設的往來、出身的往來賺肉錢,那該死了啦檢察官要來查啦,立法委員會要來查啦大家都要來揭秘、都要來打弊案啦還沒有,到底是不是弊案還沒講就先扣帽子嘛就先成立調查委員會嘛\n\n29\n00:10:03,663 --> 00:10:23,599\n我覺得這是一個很對於畜産非常錯誤的觀念這樣哪裡叫畜産這個就是要防避防止人家投資怎麼有畜産的觀念你說是不是沒錯委員講的確實是但這個部分觀念應該要去做改變第一個就是說應該要合理的一個利潤然後政府來\n\n30\n00:10:24,259 --> 00:10:44,170\n然後民間來投資才有誘因這是要合理的理論第二個就是說打破所謂的政府是零出資的這樣一個觀念所以我們修法以後有所謂政府購買公共服務這樣的一個新的機制好那理事長你回答一下因為你在促三思這麼久你觀念很正確你是不是說明一下我剛剛講的你是不是也有少有同感啊\n\n31\n00:10:45,601 --> 00:11:02,783\n報告委員謝謝您的這個剛剛的引導其實的確這是一方面的問題但是以出安市的立場我想我們從兩個部分一個是鼓勵一個是協助那在鼓勵的部分我們現在是鼓勵各機關除了原有的交通建設\n\n32\n00:11:03,644 --> 00:11:27,269\n或是觀光遊器、商業設施這些可以做促參之外那我們也希望說各部會的這些主管單位能夠包括像我們現在最需要的長照、醫療甚至像社會住宅這方面其實它後面的需求量都很大那也符合我們現在社會發展的趨勢那是不是這些部會可以來往這個方向來思考\n\n33\n00:11:27,649 --> 00:11:27,889\n接著請賴仕寶、賴委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n583\t16263\t主席麻煩請金管會彭主委彭主委委員早主委早延續剛剛的話題現在有人提出修法要把海外的配置從45%降到25%\n18066\t30573\t那第一個條文裡面沒有看到實施多久之內要降下來那假設退院不講究法律通過要降下來這樣回來台灣的資產大概會多少\n31141\t55646\t報告委員現在我們受險業的總體資產大概32兆元左右剛剛提到就是說我們現在如果說以這樣一個額度下來的話我們估計大概是9兆多的金額會必須減少那等於說也代表說那個如果這樣的調降的話受險業必須立刻做將近9兆元左右的資產配置的改變稍待一下請嚴副總裁請嚴副總裁\n65188\t85602\t副董,你剛剛彭主委的說明你有聽到,如果法律降成政治25%,要有9兆多的台幣要回來台灣,從外國的資產變賣9兆多的台幣回來台灣,台灣的通貨,第一個國內多9兆的通貨,中央銀行如何處理?\n88157\t108795\t報告委員基本上因為我從另外一個角度去思考這個問題好了台灣是一個經常在順差的國家基本上經常在順差的國家應該是讓我們的資金投資到國外所以不管是保險業或者是我們政府基金或者是其實大量的資金是投資在國外這是在\n109275\t109295\t蘇貞昌議員\n135430\t150874\t而且國內的債券市場的規模也沒有那麼大的容納量所以這也都是很多延伸出來的第二個會不會因為這樣的突然之間的高額升新台幣突然之間走這麼強美國會不會認為我們台灣在操縱貨幣操縱匯率\n154815\t183507\t是否有這樣的可能性?呃...我想那是假設性的,對阿好,那你請回座喔,因為我是說萬一退一萬步法律通過的話啦我再繼續請教彭主委請彭主委是,謝謝彭主委,這個回來不是那麼簡單欸國內回來之後要幹嘛?突然之間九兆元回來他也不能說放在家裡阿不能說鎖在金庫阿放在銀行阿除了資金氾濫之後要有投資標的阿是\n185486\t202304\t投入股市嗎?投入房市嗎?這樣股市房市不是就被短期間用9兆的資金大水漫灌那不得了啊那可能不是兩萬三千點啦可能三萬三千點、四萬三千點如果硬要把它丟進來的話\n204717\t232499\t會不會有這樣的可能性?就是說以現在保險業投資在海外的資產大部分都是長期的投資在固定收益特別是長期的債券上面他們很多是要獲取長期穩定的報酬那如果說真的回來剛才陳儒剛才央行副總裁所提到的台灣確實應該是整體的債市的規模可能也差不多這個金額而已那現在也很難容納那進來以後可以\n233320\t234040\t所以的確有這樣的潛在的危險性\n254790\t279348\t再來只是說程度可能沒有像我形容的這麼極端再來我就請教一個問題我們很多保險會與美國的債券為例美國的國債是一個世界上很大的市場那很多的投資標的都會投資美債那美國的尤其是美國國家發行的公債因為最近這個所謂的暴力升息是它舊的那些債長期長債\n281770\t281950\t委員會主席\n301138\t301579\t委員會主席\n321597\t342519\t其實這個數字我們用差不多初估大概因為我們在投資在海外這個比例投資在固收上面應該超過七八成以上那以剛剛那個額度乘一下那其實我們過去在過去20年來利率的水準那實際上我們也面對到剛剛講說現在馬上就可能要逐步降息\n343200\t369838\t那這些保險業購買這些長期債券都是為了持有到期、獲取報酬。其實這個評價,確實會成如委員講的,如果現在很快地做fine sale,就是我們這樣去把它拋售,確實會影響層面非常的大。那個金額其實,雖然我們現在沒有細緻的數字,但是應該是非常大的一個數字。好,那你知道嗎,台灣的這些保險公司,有的是在金控底下,有的是保險公司,他們都是股票上市公司欸。\n371195\t381936\t投資人有沒有估算過多少投資人?上百萬以上的投資人吧?持有股票的所有捐贈啊?我要請你要小心一個事情,你這個如果隨便做\n383131\t386433\t金管會對這樣的一個調整我們是持保留的態度是我們覺得還是不要做這樣的調動會比較符合現行的我們經營的狀況\n411405\t419692\t那瞭解你的立場,請你回座,請財政部莊部長跟我們促參司理事長請莊部長、理事長委員好部長早,市長早,部長\n430395\t450644\t剛剛談了很多,裡面就提到說其實還有很多的資金可以投入在台灣的公共建設那當然,促參是其中的一個方法,不是全部的方法是一個重要的方法那你有沒有歸納一下為什麼鼓勵了這麼多年還是金額比例還是佔這麼小的比例勒?\n451768\t472595\t跟委員報告第一個就是案源也就是說我們必須要有更多的一個公共建設的讓保險業資金可以投入的一個案源那第二個就是說過往保險業也就是說我們相關的法規對保險業資金的一些相關投資有些限制但是金管會已經修正相關法令的規定\n473295\t500465\t對於保險業突入公共建設比如說在董建市的一個派的席次上也有所放寬所以這個部分在...這個剛剛報告裡面都有了不用重複了對那案源的部分那是要我們繼續就是說跨部會一起來做努力那就財政部來說我們是鼓勵以及協助各目的事業主管機關對於他所要做的公建盡量是以促參的模式來做那我們財政部就是要去優化有關的法制的環境以及對於履約爭議\n501565\t527402\t可以能夠加速的協調處理,這樣讓投資者有更有信心。我跟你交換意見,我從處理這個政策跟民眾陳情內,我跟你報告,理事長是一個很傑出的人才,他對這個法令的解釋東西觀念是很清楚。他現在問題是在哪裡,我覺得啦,我跟你討教看看你認不認同,最主要是我們台灣整個公務體系還有整個社會,很怕人家賺錢。\n529437\t543509\t所以其實今天講保險業必須要投入這些東西他就必須要有一定的獲利空間簡單講人家做生意人家的資金是有本錢的嘛有成本的嘛那你如果叫人家做這些東西不讓人家有賺錢的空間\n544770\t546031\t那人家為什麼要來做呢?\n546031\t556777\t我有別的地方可以賺啊!這K沒錢 把K中 我不一定要中這K我不是說我唯一選擇但是問題是 台灣從上到下 從公務員到整個社會喔!\n556777\t569104\t只要商人賺錢 這個就是圖利商人啦!你們這個就是圖利的政府啦!所以你們這個政府就是 要來捉弊啦!所以我們要成立調查委員會 把你們這些人都捉來問啦!你不來的話 我要給你罰錢啦!\n572972\t589017\t是不是台灣就是這樣的觀念,所以大家說政府委員會不要去報、不要去報、不要去吸我跟書信那樣我怎麼談,沒有你的關聯,我就挑水就好了嘛如果跟政府之間有什麼樣子的公共建設的往來、出身的往來賺肉錢,那該死了啦檢察官要來查啦,立法委員會要來查啦大家都要來揭秘、都要來打弊案啦還沒有,到底是不是弊案還沒講就先扣帽子嘛就先成立調查委員會嘛\n603663\t623599\t我覺得這是一個很對於畜産非常錯誤的觀念這樣哪裡叫畜産這個就是要防避防止人家投資怎麼有畜産的觀念你說是不是沒錯委員講的確實是但這個部分觀念應該要去做改變第一個就是說應該要合理的一個利潤然後政府來\n624259\t644170\t然後民間來投資才有誘因這是要合理的理論第二個就是說打破所謂的政府是零出資的這樣一個觀念所以我們修法以後有所謂政府購買公共服務這樣的一個新的機制好那理事長你回答一下因為你在促三思這麼久你觀念很正確你是不是說明一下我剛剛講的你是不是也有少有同感啊\n645601\t662783\t報告委員謝謝您的這個剛剛的引導其實的確這是一方面的問題但是以出安市的立場我想我們從兩個部分一個是鼓勵一個是協助那在鼓勵的部分我們現在是鼓勵各機關除了原有的交通建設\n663644\t687269\t或是觀光遊器、商業設施這些可以做促參之外那我們也希望說各部會的這些主管單位能夠包括像我們現在最需要的長照、醫療甚至像社會住宅這方面其實它後面的需求量都很大那也符合我們現在社會發展的趨勢那是不是這些部會可以來往這個方向來思考\n687649\t687889\t接著請賴仕寶、賴委員質詢\n","txt":"主席麻煩請金管會彭主委彭主委委員早主委早延續剛剛的話題現在有人提出修法要把海外的配置從45%降到25%\n那第一個條文裡面沒有看到實施多久之內要降下來那假設退院不講究法律通過要降下來這樣回來台灣的資產大概會多少\n報告委員現在我們受險業的總體資產大概32兆元左右剛剛提到就是說我們現在如果說以這樣一個額度下來的話我們估計大概是9兆多的金額會必須減少那等於說也代表說那個如果這樣的調降的話受險業必須立刻做將近9兆元左右的資產配置的改變稍待一下請嚴副總裁請嚴副總裁\n副董,你剛剛彭主委的說明你有聽到,如果法律降成政治25%,要有9兆多的台幣要回來台灣,從外國的資產變賣9兆多的台幣回來台灣,台灣的通貨,第一個國內多9兆的通貨,中央銀行如何處理?\n報告委員基本上因為我從另外一個角度去思考這個問題好了台灣是一個經常在順差的國家基本上經常在順差的國家應該是讓我們的資金投資到國外所以不管是保險業或者是我們政府基金或者是其實大量的資金是投資在國外這是在\n蘇貞昌議員\n而且國內的債券市場的規模也沒有那麼大的容納量所以這也都是很多延伸出來的第二個會不會因為這樣的突然之間的高額升新台幣突然之間走這麼強美國會不會認為我們台灣在操縱貨幣操縱匯率\n是否有這樣的可能性?呃...我想那是假設性的,對阿好,那你請回座喔,因為我是說萬一退一萬步法律通過的話啦我再繼續請教彭主委請彭主委是,謝謝彭主委,這個回來不是那麼簡單欸國內回來之後要幹嘛?突然之間九兆元回來他也不能說放在家裡阿不能說鎖在金庫阿放在銀行阿除了資金氾濫之後要有投資標的阿是\n投入股市嗎?投入房市嗎?這樣股市房市不是就被短期間用9兆的資金大水漫灌那不得了啊那可能不是兩萬三千點啦可能三萬三千點、四萬三千點如果硬要把它丟進來的話\n會不會有這樣的可能性?就是說以現在保險業投資在海外的資產大部分都是長期的投資在固定收益特別是長期的債券上面他們很多是要獲取長期穩定的報酬那如果說真的回來剛才陳儒剛才央行副總裁所提到的台灣確實應該是整體的債市的規模可能也差不多這個金額而已那現在也很難容納那進來以後可以\n所以的確有這樣的潛在的危險性\n再來只是說程度可能沒有像我形容的這麼極端再來我就請教一個問題我們很多保險會與美國的債券為例美國的國債是一個世界上很大的市場那很多的投資標的都會投資美債那美國的尤其是美國國家發行的公債因為最近這個所謂的暴力升息是它舊的那些債長期長債\n委員會主席\n委員會主席\n其實這個數字我們用差不多初估大概因為我們在投資在海外這個比例投資在固收上面應該超過七八成以上那以剛剛那個額度乘一下那其實我們過去在過去20年來利率的水準那實際上我們也面對到剛剛講說現在馬上就可能要逐步降息\n那這些保險業購買這些長期債券都是為了持有到期、獲取報酬。其實這個評價,確實會成如委員講的,如果現在很快地做fine sale,就是我們這樣去把它拋售,確實會影響層面非常的大。那個金額其實,雖然我們現在沒有細緻的數字,但是應該是非常大的一個數字。好,那你知道嗎,台灣的這些保險公司,有的是在金控底下,有的是保險公司,他們都是股票上市公司欸。\n投資人有沒有估算過多少投資人?上百萬以上的投資人吧?持有股票的所有捐贈啊?我要請你要小心一個事情,你這個如果隨便做\n金管會對這樣的一個調整我們是持保留的態度是我們覺得還是不要做這樣的調動會比較符合現行的我們經營的狀況\n那瞭解你的立場,請你回座,請財政部莊部長跟我們促參司理事長請莊部長、理事長委員好部長早,市長早,部長\n剛剛談了很多,裡面就提到說其實還有很多的資金可以投入在台灣的公共建設那當然,促參是其中的一個方法,不是全部的方法是一個重要的方法那你有沒有歸納一下為什麼鼓勵了這麼多年還是金額比例還是佔這麼小的比例勒?\n跟委員報告第一個就是案源也就是說我們必須要有更多的一個公共建設的讓保險業資金可以投入的一個案源那第二個就是說過往保險業也就是說我們相關的法規對保險業資金的一些相關投資有些限制但是金管會已經修正相關法令的規定\n對於保險業突入公共建設比如說在董建市的一個派的席次上也有所放寬所以這個部分在...這個剛剛報告裡面都有了不用重複了對那案源的部分那是要我們繼續就是說跨部會一起來做努力那就財政部來說我們是鼓勵以及協助各目的事業主管機關對於他所要做的公建盡量是以促參的模式來做那我們財政部就是要去優化有關的法制的環境以及對於履約爭議\n可以能夠加速的協調處理,這樣讓投資者有更有信心。我跟你交換意見,我從處理這個政策跟民眾陳情內,我跟你報告,理事長是一個很傑出的人才,他對這個法令的解釋東西觀念是很清楚。他現在問題是在哪裡,我覺得啦,我跟你討教看看你認不認同,最主要是我們台灣整個公務體系還有整個社會,很怕人家賺錢。\n所以其實今天講保險業必須要投入這些東西他就必須要有一定的獲利空間簡單講人家做生意人家的資金是有本錢的嘛有成本的嘛那你如果叫人家做這些東西不讓人家有賺錢的空間\n那人家為什麼要來做呢?\n我有別的地方可以賺啊!這K沒錢 把K中 我不一定要中這K我不是說我唯一選擇但是問題是 台灣從上到下 從公務員到整個社會喔!\n只要商人賺錢 這個就是圖利商人啦!你們這個就是圖利的政府啦!所以你們這個政府就是 要來捉弊啦!所以我們要成立調查委員會 把你們這些人都捉來問啦!你不來的話 我要給你罰錢啦!\n是不是台灣就是這樣的觀念,所以大家說政府委員會不要去報、不要去報、不要去吸我跟書信那樣我怎麼談,沒有你的關聯,我就挑水就好了嘛如果跟政府之間有什麼樣子的公共建設的往來、出身的往來賺肉錢,那該死了啦檢察官要來查啦,立法委員會要來查啦大家都要來揭秘、都要來打弊案啦還沒有,到底是不是弊案還沒講就先扣帽子嘛就先成立調查委員會嘛\n我覺得這是一個很對於畜産非常錯誤的觀念這樣哪裡叫畜産這個就是要防避防止人家投資怎麼有畜産的觀念你說是不是沒錯委員講的確實是但這個部分觀念應該要去做改變第一個就是說應該要合理的一個利潤然後政府來\n然後民間來投資才有誘因這是要合理的理論第二個就是說打破所謂的政府是零出資的這樣一個觀念所以我們修法以後有所謂政府購買公共服務這樣的一個新的機制好那理事長你回答一下因為你在促三思這麼久你觀念很正確你是不是說明一下我剛剛講的你是不是也有少有同感啊\n報告委員謝謝您的這個剛剛的引導其實的確這是一方面的問題但是以出安市的立場我想我們從兩個部分一個是鼓勵一個是協助那在鼓勵的部分我們現在是鼓勵各機關除了原有的交通建設\n或是觀光遊器、商業設施這些可以做促參之外那我們也希望說各部會的這些主管單位能夠包括像我們現在最需要的長照、醫療甚至像社會住宅這方面其實它後面的需求量都很大那也符合我們現在社會發展的趨勢那是不是這些部會可以來往這個方向來思考\n接著請賴仕寶、賴委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.583 --> 00:16.263\n主席麻煩請金管會彭主委彭主委委員早主委早延續剛剛的話題現在有人提出修法要把海外的配置從45%降到25%\n\n00:18.066 --> 00:30.573\n那第一個條文裡面沒有看到實施多久之內要降下來那假設退院不講究法律通過要降下來這樣回來台灣的資產大概會多少\n\n00:31.141 --> 00:55.646\n報告委員現在我們受險業的總體資產大概32兆元左右剛剛提到就是說我們現在如果說以這樣一個額度下來的話我們估計大概是9兆多的金額會必須減少那等於說也代表說那個如果這樣的調降的話受險業必須立刻做將近9兆元左右的資產配置的改變稍待一下請嚴副總裁請嚴副總裁\n\n01:05.188 --> 01:25.602\n副董,你剛剛彭主委的說明你有聽到,如果法律降成政治25%,要有9兆多的台幣要回來台灣,從外國的資產變賣9兆多的台幣回來台灣,台灣的通貨,第一個國內多9兆的通貨,中央銀行如何處理?\n\n01:28.157 --> 01:48.795\n報告委員基本上因為我從另外一個角度去思考這個問題好了台灣是一個經常在順差的國家基本上經常在順差的國家應該是讓我們的資金投資到國外所以不管是保險業或者是我們政府基金或者是其實大量的資金是投資在國外這是在\n\n01:49.275 --> 01:49.295\n蘇貞昌議員\n\n02:15.430 --> 02:30.874\n而且國內的債券市場的規模也沒有那麼大的容納量所以這也都是很多延伸出來的第二個會不會因為這樣的突然之間的高額升新台幣突然之間走這麼強美國會不會認為我們台灣在操縱貨幣操縱匯率\n\n02:34.815 --> 03:03.507\n是否有這樣的可能性?呃...我想那是假設性的,對阿好,那你請回座喔,因為我是說萬一退一萬步法律通過的話啦我再繼續請教彭主委請彭主委是,謝謝彭主委,這個回來不是那麼簡單欸國內回來之後要幹嘛?突然之間九兆元回來他也不能說放在家裡阿不能說鎖在金庫阿放在銀行阿除了資金氾濫之後要有投資標的阿是\n\n03:05.486 --> 03:22.304\n投入股市嗎?投入房市嗎?這樣股市房市不是就被短期間用9兆的資金大水漫灌那不得了啊那可能不是兩萬三千點啦可能三萬三千點、四萬三千點如果硬要把它丟進來的話\n\n03:24.717 --> 03:52.499\n會不會有這樣的可能性?就是說以現在保險業投資在海外的資產大部分都是長期的投資在固定收益特別是長期的債券上面他們很多是要獲取長期穩定的報酬那如果說真的回來剛才陳儒剛才央行副總裁所提到的台灣確實應該是整體的債市的規模可能也差不多這個金額而已那現在也很難容納那進來以後可以\n\n03:53.320 --> 03:54.040\n所以的確有這樣的潛在的危險性\n\n04:14.790 --> 04:39.348\n再來只是說程度可能沒有像我形容的這麼極端再來我就請教一個問題我們很多保險會與美國的債券為例美國的國債是一個世界上很大的市場那很多的投資標的都會投資美債那美國的尤其是美國國家發行的公債因為最近這個所謂的暴力升息是它舊的那些債長期長債\n\n04:41.770 --> 04:41.950\n委員會主席\n\n05:01.138 --> 05:01.579\n委員會主席\n\n05:21.597 --> 05:42.519\n其實這個數字我們用差不多初估大概因為我們在投資在海外這個比例投資在固收上面應該超過七八成以上那以剛剛那個額度乘一下那其實我們過去在過去20年來利率的水準那實際上我們也面對到剛剛講說現在馬上就可能要逐步降息\n\n05:43.200 --> 06:09.838\n那這些保險業購買這些長期債券都是為了持有到期、獲取報酬。其實這個評價,確實會成如委員講的,如果現在很快地做finesale,就是我們這樣去把它拋售,確實會影響層面非常的大。那個金額其實,雖然我們現在沒有細緻的數字,但是應該是非常大的一個數字。好,那你知道嗎,台灣的這些保險公司,有的是在金控底下,有的是保險公司,他們都是股票上市公司欸。\n\n06:11.195 --> 06:21.936\n投資人有沒有估算過多少投資人?上百萬以上的投資人吧?持有股票的所有捐贈啊?我要請你要小心一個事情,你這個如果隨便做\n\n06:23.131 --> 06:26.433\n金管會對這樣的一個調整我們是持保留的態度是我們覺得還是不要做這樣的調動會比較符合現行的我們經營的狀況\n\n06:51.405 --> 06:59.692\n那瞭解你的立場,請你回座,請財政部莊部長跟我們促參司理事長請莊部長、理事長委員好部長早,市長早,部長\n\n07:10.395 --> 07:30.644\n剛剛談了很多,裡面就提到說其實還有很多的資金可以投入在台灣的公共建設那當然,促參是其中的一個方法,不是全部的方法是一個重要的方法那你有沒有歸納一下為什麼鼓勵了這麼多年還是金額比例還是佔這麼小的比例勒?\n\n07:31.768 --> 07:52.595\n跟委員報告第一個就是案源也就是說我們必須要有更多的一個公共建設的讓保險業資金可以投入的一個案源那第二個就是說過往保險業也就是說我們相關的法規對保險業資金的一些相關投資有些限制但是金管會已經修正相關法令的規定\n\n07:53.295 --> 08:20.465\n對於保險業突入公共建設比如說在董建市的一個派的席次上也有所放寬所以這個部分在...這個剛剛報告裡面都有了不用重複了對那案源的部分那是要我們繼續就是說跨部會一起來做努力那就財政部來說我們是鼓勵以及協助各目的事業主管機關對於他所要做的公建盡量是以促參的模式來做那我們財政部就是要去優化有關的法制的環境以及對於履約爭議\n\n08:21.565 --> 08:47.402\n可以能夠加速的協調處理,這樣讓投資者有更有信心。我跟你交換意見,我從處理這個政策跟民眾陳情內,我跟你報告,理事長是一個很傑出的人才,他對這個法令的解釋東西觀念是很清楚。他現在問題是在哪裡,我覺得啦,我跟你討教看看你認不認同,最主要是我們台灣整個公務體系還有整個社會,很怕人家賺錢。\n\n08:49.437 --> 09:03.509\n所以其實今天講保險業必須要投入這些東西他就必須要有一定的獲利空間簡單講人家做生意人家的資金是有本錢的嘛有成本的嘛那你如果叫人家做這些東西不讓人家有賺錢的空間\n\n09:04.770 --> 09:06.031\n那人家為什麼要來做呢?\n\n09:06.031 --> 09:16.777\n我有別的地方可以賺啊!這K沒錢把K中我不一定要中這K我不是說我唯一選擇但是問題是台灣從上到下從公務員到整個社會喔!\n\n09:16.777 --> 09:29.104\n只要商人賺錢這個就是圖利商人啦!你們這個就是圖利的政府啦!所以你們這個政府就是要來捉弊啦!所以我們要成立調查委員會把你們這些人都捉來問啦!你不來的話我要給你罰錢啦!\n\n09:32.972 --> 09:49.017\n是不是台灣就是這樣的觀念,所以大家說政府委員會不要去報、不要去報、不要去吸我跟書信那樣我怎麼談,沒有你的關聯,我就挑水就好了嘛如果跟政府之間有什麼樣子的公共建設的往來、出身的往來賺肉錢,那該死了啦檢察官要來查啦,立法委員會要來查啦大家都要來揭秘、都要來打弊案啦還沒有,到底是不是弊案還沒講就先扣帽子嘛就先成立調查委員會嘛\n\n10:03.663 --> 10:23.599\n我覺得這是一個很對於畜産非常錯誤的觀念這樣哪裡叫畜産這個就是要防避防止人家投資怎麼有畜産的觀念你說是不是沒錯委員講的確實是但這個部分觀念應該要去做改變第一個就是說應該要合理的一個利潤然後政府來\n\n10:24.259 --> 10:44.170\n然後民間來投資才有誘因這是要合理的理論第二個就是說打破所謂的政府是零出資的這樣一個觀念所以我們修法以後有所謂政府購買公共服務這樣的一個新的機制好那理事長你回答一下因為你在促三思這麼久你觀念很正確你是不是說明一下我剛剛講的你是不是也有少有同感啊\n\n10:45.601 --> 11:02.783\n報告委員謝謝您的這個剛剛的引導其實的確這是一方面的問題但是以出安市的立場我想我們從兩個部分一個是鼓勵一個是協助那在鼓勵的部分我們現在是鼓勵各機關除了原有的交通建設\n\n11:03.644 --> 11:27.269\n或是觀光遊器、商業設施這些可以做促參之外那我們也希望說各部會的這些主管單位能夠包括像我們現在最需要的長照、醫療甚至像社會住宅這方面其實它後面的需求量都很大那也符合我們現在社會發展的趨勢那是不是這些部會可以來往這個方向來思考\n\n11:27.649 --> 11:27.889\n接著請賴仕寶、賴委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.583,"end":16.263,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會彭主委彭主委委員早主委早延續剛剛的話題現在有人提出修法要把海外的配置從45%降到25%"},{"start":18.066,"end":30.573,"text":"那第一個條文裡面沒有看到實施多久之內要降下來那假設退院不講究法律通過要降下來這樣回來台灣的資產大概會多少"},{"start":31.141,"end":55.646,"text":"報告委員現在我們受險業的總體資產大概32兆元左右剛剛提到就是說我們現在如果說以這樣一個額度下來的話我們估計大概是9兆多的金額會必須減少那等於說也代表說那個如果這樣的調降的話受險業必須立刻做將近9兆元左右的資產配置的改變稍待一下請嚴副總裁請嚴副總裁"},{"start":65.188,"end":85.602,"text":"副董,你剛剛彭主委的說明你有聽到,如果法律降成政治25%,要有9兆多的台幣要回來台灣,從外國的資產變賣9兆多的台幣回來台灣,台灣的通貨,第一個國內多9兆的通貨,中央銀行如何處理?"},{"start":88.157,"end":108.795,"text":"報告委員基本上因為我從另外一個角度去思考這個問題好了台灣是一個經常在順差的國家基本上經常在順差的國家應該是讓我們的資金投資到國外所以不管是保險業或者是我們政府基金或者是其實大量的資金是投資在國外這是在"},{"start":109.275,"end":109.295,"text":"蘇貞昌議員"},{"start":135.43,"end":150.874,"text":"而且國內的債券市場的規模也沒有那麼大的容納量所以這也都是很多延伸出來的第二個會不會因為這樣的突然之間的高額升新台幣突然之間走這麼強美國會不會認為我們台灣在操縱貨幣操縱匯率"},{"start":154.815,"end":183.507,"text":"是否有這樣的可能性?呃...我想那是假設性的,對阿好,那你請回座喔,因為我是說萬一退一萬步法律通過的話啦我再繼續請教彭主委請彭主委是,謝謝彭主委,這個回來不是那麼簡單欸國內回來之後要幹嘛?突然之間九兆元回來他也不能說放在家裡阿不能說鎖在金庫阿放在銀行阿除了資金氾濫之後要有投資標的阿是"},{"start":185.486,"end":202.304,"text":"投入股市嗎?投入房市嗎?這樣股市房市不是就被短期間用9兆的資金大水漫灌那不得了啊那可能不是兩萬三千點啦可能三萬三千點、四萬三千點如果硬要把它丟進來的話"},{"start":204.717,"end":232.499,"text":"會不會有這樣的可能性?就是說以現在保險業投資在海外的資產大部分都是長期的投資在固定收益特別是長期的債券上面他們很多是要獲取長期穩定的報酬那如果說真的回來剛才陳儒剛才央行副總裁所提到的台灣確實應該是整體的債市的規模可能也差不多這個金額而已那現在也很難容納那進來以後可以"},{"start":233.32,"end":234.04,"text":"所以的確有這樣的潛在的危險性"},{"start":254.79,"end":279.348,"text":"再來只是說程度可能沒有像我形容的這麼極端再來我就請教一個問題我們很多保險會與美國的債券為例美國的國債是一個世界上很大的市場那很多的投資標的都會投資美債那美國的尤其是美國國家發行的公債因為最近這個所謂的暴力升息是它舊的那些債長期長債"},{"start":281.77,"end":281.95,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":301.138,"end":301.579,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":321.597,"end":342.519,"text":"其實這個數字我們用差不多初估大概因為我們在投資在海外這個比例投資在固收上面應該超過七八成以上那以剛剛那個額度乘一下那其實我們過去在過去20年來利率的水準那實際上我們也面對到剛剛講說現在馬上就可能要逐步降息"},{"start":343.2,"end":369.838,"text":"那這些保險業購買這些長期債券都是為了持有到期、獲取報酬。其實這個評價,確實會成如委員講的,如果現在很快地做fine sale,就是我們這樣去把它拋售,確實會影響層面非常的大。那個金額其實,雖然我們現在沒有細緻的數字,但是應該是非常大的一個數字。好,那你知道嗎,台灣的這些保險公司,有的是在金控底下,有的是保險公司,他們都是股票上市公司欸。"},{"start":371.195,"end":381.936,"text":"投資人有沒有估算過多少投資人?上百萬以上的投資人吧?持有股票的所有捐贈啊?我要請你要小心一個事情,你這個如果隨便做"},{"start":383.131,"end":386.433,"text":"金管會對這樣的一個調整我們是持保留的態度是我們覺得還是不要做這樣的調動會比較符合現行的我們經營的狀況"},{"start":411.405,"end":419.692,"text":"那瞭解你的立場,請你回座,請財政部莊部長跟我們促參司理事長請莊部長、理事長委員好部長早,市長早,部長"},{"start":430.395,"end":450.644,"text":"剛剛談了很多,裡面就提到說其實還有很多的資金可以投入在台灣的公共建設那當然,促參是其中的一個方法,不是全部的方法是一個重要的方法那你有沒有歸納一下為什麼鼓勵了這麼多年還是金額比例還是佔這麼小的比例勒?"},{"start":451.768,"end":472.595,"text":"跟委員報告第一個就是案源也就是說我們必須要有更多的一個公共建設的讓保險業資金可以投入的一個案源那第二個就是說過往保險業也就是說我們相關的法規對保險業資金的一些相關投資有些限制但是金管會已經修正相關法令的規定"},{"start":473.295,"end":500.465,"text":"對於保險業突入公共建設比如說在董建市的一個派的席次上也有所放寬所以這個部分在...這個剛剛報告裡面都有了不用重複了對那案源的部分那是要我們繼續就是說跨部會一起來做努力那就財政部來說我們是鼓勵以及協助各目的事業主管機關對於他所要做的公建盡量是以促參的模式來做那我們財政部就是要去優化有關的法制的環境以及對於履約爭議"},{"start":501.565,"end":527.402,"text":"可以能夠加速的協調處理,這樣讓投資者有更有信心。我跟你交換意見,我從處理這個政策跟民眾陳情內,我跟你報告,理事長是一個很傑出的人才,他對這個法令的解釋東西觀念是很清楚。他現在問題是在哪裡,我覺得啦,我跟你討教看看你認不認同,最主要是我們台灣整個公務體系還有整個社會,很怕人家賺錢。"},{"start":529.437,"end":543.509,"text":"所以其實今天講保險業必須要投入這些東西他就必須要有一定的獲利空間簡單講人家做生意人家的資金是有本錢的嘛有成本的嘛那你如果叫人家做這些東西不讓人家有賺錢的空間"},{"start":544.77,"end":546.031,"text":"那人家為什麼要來做呢?"},{"start":546.031,"end":556.777,"text":"我有別的地方可以賺啊!這K沒錢 把K中 我不一定要中這K我不是說我唯一選擇但是問題是 台灣從上到下 從公務員到整個社會喔!"},{"start":556.777,"end":569.104,"text":"只要商人賺錢 這個就是圖利商人啦!你們這個就是圖利的政府啦!所以你們這個政府就是 要來捉弊啦!所以我們要成立調查委員會 把你們這些人都捉來問啦!你不來的話 我要給你罰錢啦!"},{"start":572.972,"end":589.017,"text":"是不是台灣就是這樣的觀念,所以大家說政府委員會不要去報、不要去報、不要去吸我跟書信那樣我怎麼談,沒有你的關聯,我就挑水就好了嘛如果跟政府之間有什麼樣子的公共建設的往來、出身的往來賺肉錢,那該死了啦檢察官要來查啦,立法委員會要來查啦大家都要來揭秘、都要來打弊案啦還沒有,到底是不是弊案還沒講就先扣帽子嘛就先成立調查委員會嘛"},{"start":603.663,"end":623.599,"text":"我覺得這是一個很對於畜産非常錯誤的觀念這樣哪裡叫畜産這個就是要防避防止人家投資怎麼有畜産的觀念你說是不是沒錯委員講的確實是但這個部分觀念應該要去做改變第一個就是說應該要合理的一個利潤然後政府來"},{"start":624.259,"end":644.17,"text":"然後民間來投資才有誘因這是要合理的理論第二個就是說打破所謂的政府是零出資的這樣一個觀念所以我們修法以後有所謂政府購買公共服務這樣的一個新的機制好那理事長你回答一下因為你在促三思這麼久你觀念很正確你是不是說明一下我剛剛講的你是不是也有少有同感啊"},{"start":645.601,"end":662.783,"text":"報告委員謝謝您的這個剛剛的引導其實的確這是一方面的問題但是以出安市的立場我想我們從兩個部分一個是鼓勵一個是協助那在鼓勵的部分我們現在是鼓勵各機關除了原有的交通建設"},{"start":663.644,"end":687.269,"text":"或是觀光遊器、商業設施這些可以做促參之外那我們也希望說各部會的這些主管單位能夠包括像我們現在最需要的長照、醫療甚至像社會住宅這方面其實它後面的需求量都很大那也符合我們現在社會發展的趨勢那是不是這些部會可以來往這個方向來思考"},{"start":687.649,"end":687.889,"text":"接著請賴仕寶、賴委員質詢"}]}}}}