{"id":154450,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154450","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd141d3f813821f8ac27d0a78c1009ae5edc75a2b8c9f1b706fa5ec6075ae9718d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:36:41 - 09:50:24","影片長度":"00:13:43","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「『文化資產保存法』施行40年有餘，修復體系翻新升級」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T09:36:41+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T09:50:24+08:00","duration":823,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":266,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時36分）謝謝召委，我們一樣有請李遠部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：萬委員，你好！"],["萬委員美玲：好，我們一樣回到上週六的金曲獎，我早上也聽了一下您對於這次金曲獎的一些回應，但是我覺得還是要提一下，首先先請教部長，整個金曲獎都落幕了，當然不管它引發沸沸揚揚的討論，你認為這次的金曲獎辦得成功嗎？你給這次的金曲獎打幾分。"],["李部長遠：必須跟你承認我是第一次參加金曲獎，打幾分啊？"],["萬委員美玲：所以這一次金曲獎在你的心目中成功嗎？打了幾分？"],["李部長遠：我給它80分，但是因為發生這些事情，我給它扣5分，就是75分。"],["萬委員美玲：75分？"],["李部長遠：嗯。"],["萬委員美玲：好，這一次金曲獎相關的出包，剛才您回答是說有硬體、有設備、有小編的問題喔！那麼我整個看起來，這些出的包其實都是非常低級的錯誤啊！都是不應該出的包，雖然看起來是一個小地方，但是影響甚鉅，所以才會造成您剛剛所說的，在今天典禮的現場，您看到所有多元文化的表演，你就會非常的感動，但沒想到落幕以後卻是引發這麼多的沸沸揚揚，就是這些小地方他們沒有注意的時候，帶來的就是一個巨大影響跟嚴重的結果。您知道這是哪一個單位承辦的嗎？"],["李部長遠：臺灣電視公司。"],["萬委員美玲：台視，好，這是它第幾次承辦？"],["李部長遠：第幾次啊？我問一下。"],["徐次長宜君：我們經過公開招標之後，這幾年都是台視承辦的。"],["萬委員美玲：第幾次承辦？"],["徐次長宜君：第幾次喔？應該是從第25屆到現在都是台視承辦的。"],["萬委員美玲：所以第幾次承辦？好，部長。"],["徐次長宜君：應該是第11年。"],["萬委員美玲：第11年，連續11年都由它來承辦？"],["徐次長宜君：應該是說每一年或每……因為從第25屆開始，有時候是每年招標，有時候是每兩年招標，都是經過公開招標然後來承接的。"],["萬委員美玲：所以我只問一下，台視連續幾年來承辦？它總共辦過幾次了？"],["徐次長宜君：其實它是在第21屆到第23屆……"],["萬委員美玲：你告訴我它總共辦過幾次？"],["徐次長宜君：幾次嗎？"],["萬委員美玲：對，台視？"],["徐次長宜君：14次。"],["萬委員美玲：14次，所以台視辦金曲獎的經驗有高達14次。部長，這個問題就嚴重了！"],["李部長遠：對。"],["萬委員美玲：其實它出包不是今年才出包，因為您是今年才接了部長這個位置，你有去現場看，它往年就出過很多次包了，去年不知道您記不記得？就在第34屆的金曲獎，因為頒獎卡片排版不佳，導致主持人唸錯，有沒有？還造成大家很多的尷尬，甚至造成大家心理上的不舒服，還有一些面子、裡子的問題，其實是很嚴重的錯誤。如果說台視從過去到現在，第一個，它經驗豐富還屢屢出錯，屢屢出錯又屢屢得標，這是為什麼？第二個，去年已經出錯，今年還是繼續再犯，那請問一下，它是用什麼樣的方式，你們去委給它來承辦這個活動？我想請教部長。"],["李部長遠：OK，其實你剛才問的問題，我應該分兩個面向，一個就是政府採購法我們的修正，然後有出了差錯，我們把它計點數；但是第二個問題我必須講，臺灣電視早期只有3家的時候，他們能力非常好，後來變成100家之後……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，剛剛柯志恩委員跟你聊到二、三十年前的事情，但我現在跟你講的是今年的事，好嗎？所以不要跟我講那個台視什麼幾十年前這樣，現在這幾年都是由它來承接，為什麼它一再出包還可以一再承接？我想就這樣吧！給這個……這位是？"],["李部長遠：徐次長。"],["萬委員美玲：好，我們請他來回答好了……"],["李部長遠：OK。"],["萬委員美玲：看起來部長比較不瞭解。"],["徐次長宜君：跟委員報告，我們都是用公開招標的方式來辦理。"],["萬委員美玲：用什麼樣的標？最低標、最有利標，哪一種標？"],["徐次長宜君：我們是準用最有利標。"],["萬委員美玲：好，最有利標是評選嘛！"],["徐次長宜君：對。"],["萬委員美玲：何以十幾年來，它有經驗然後還出錯，出錯以後又再得標，得標以後再出錯，出錯又再得標，可以告訴我為什麼嗎？"],["徐次長宜君：其實這幾年都只有台視一家公司來投標，因為我們這個案子……我跟委員簡單報告，因為整個金曲獎不是只有頒獎典禮，整個案子裡頭是從25號開始有金曲國際音樂節……"],["萬委員美玲：這個我理解……"],["徐次長宜君：對，所以它的工作項目比較繁雜一點。"],["萬委員美玲：部長，有一個問題，剛才回答因為只有一家來，所以這麼多年下來，我們都只有一家來，這中間的問題其實不小，第一個，為什麼只有一家來，什麼原因？有沒有去理解過、瞭解過？"],["李部長遠：有，因為我們……"],["萬委員美玲：這個只有一家來，有沒有一些人謀不臧在裡面，或者是有沒有一些疏忽在裡面，或者是整個典禮活動的預算經費不夠高，沒有人要來？您總要找出問題來嘛！你不能老是一直給台視做，便宜行事地給它做，然後不斷地出錯，最後是什麼？最後就是部長您的感動到後來變成要去承接、面對這些沸沸揚揚啊！所以部長，我們要怎麼去解決這樣的問題？"],["李部長遠：我想我會整體檢討一下，據我個人瞭解，這個費用真的是不高，所以來標的非常少，因為標的時候它會虧，台視是臺灣第一家電視公司，後來民營化之後，他們很想要有形象，所以它其實是……"],["萬委員美玲：很想要有形象，現在這樣的形象好嗎？"],["李部長遠：但是整體……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，這件事情我們還是真的要做出一個懲處，您都知道假設是因為預算經費太低，沒有人要來，那你就要去思考怎麼樣辦好一個典禮，在足夠的經費之下，讓更有能力的人來承接，如果已經不斷在犯錯、不斷在出包，造成這個典禮去蒙羞，甚至引起這樣的沸沸揚揚，你就要去思考怎麼去懲處它、還適不適宜，這部分我們希望會後部長給我們委員會所有委員一個報告，好不好？"],["李部長遠：好，其實我們已經做懲處了，包括我們的合約上面有一些究責，就是扣款或者……"],["萬委員美玲：還有剛才我們所談論的這些問題……"],["李部長遠：對、對、對。"],["萬委員美玲：未來這一些事項，我們希望會後給我們一個完整的報告，好不好？"],["李部長遠：沒問題、沒問題。"],["萬委員美玲：好。今天部長在報告當中也有提到的，我們在文資的保存、修復上，最需要的就是人才，但現在人才的缺乏、人才的斷層非常嚴重，尤其部長不知道有沒有注意到，我們現在從教育面向來看，大家都往AI方向走，所以其實重理工、輕人文，因此現在你要找到年輕這一輩來投入，不管是人文社會科學學系，或者是我們稱作的文資人才，真的非常地難。我想請教部長，您知不知道現在文化部的文化資產人才庫裡面有多少人？"],["李部長遠：細節我不清楚，但是我們最近才開過一個會，您剛才講的問題是非常嚴重的。"],["萬委員美玲：所以您不知道有多少人，是嗎？"],["李部長遠：細節……"],["萬委員美玲：那我告訴部長，我們現在文資登錄的總數是3,237人，包括保存者、傳統匠師、藝生、古蹟修復工程工地負責人等。部長，這個資料是文化部的資料庫，但是有另外一個網站，這個網站是要提供給需要找尋文資人才的資料網站，您知道有這個網站嗎？"],["李部長遠：我不知道。"],["萬委員美玲：您也不知道有這個網站？回去要看一下，這個網站的數字是只有2,617人，所以跟文化部自己登錄的總數有620人的差距，到底哪一個才是真實的？怎麼連相關的人才統計都可以落差這麼大，這是第一個。而且在2,617人的這個網站當中，人才庫竟然還有登錄已經過世的人，所以我不理解，第一個，為什麼會有數字的落差？第二個，為什麼有過世的人你們還把他登錄在上面？這是因為網站疏於更新，還是美化數字？"],["李部長遠：這個部分我讓文資局局長來回答。"],["陳局長濟民：委員，這兩個數字，可能我們在定義的認定上面有一點落差，所以才會像剛才講的，像有的過世了，但是我們尊崇他，所以我們還是把他保留在上頭。"],["萬委員美玲：你說為什麼把他保留在上面？"],["陳局長濟民：等於是對他的尊崇，因為這是一個很好的……"],["萬委員美玲：好，部長，我想這個回答你也聽到了。部長，這個網站上面叫做人才庫，人才庫是要供給有需要的人來人才庫找人才，您同意我的說法嗎？"],["李部長遠：我同意。"],["萬委員美玲：你們把過世的人放在上面，找人才的人來這個網站上面看，有意義嗎？當時我們在調資料的時候，文資局的答復其實本席非常地不滿意，這個是文資局的答復，它說：「文化部依文化資產法第八十九條、第九十一條登錄認定無形文化資產保存者，保存者過世後，基於尊重其殊榮，爰保留於國家文化資產網人才庫。」部長，您會後去看一下，結果第八十九條、第九十一條完全沒有提到這個部分，今天文化部文資局給的資料怎麼可以亂講、亂答，非常不尊重自己，更不尊重委員，對不對？你對得起自己的專業嗎？亂講一通！第八十九條、第九十一條哪有就這個來講。本席上去找，在第九十三條，可能還有一條比較相關的，其規定為「保存者因死亡、變更、解散或其他特殊理由而無法執行前條之無形文化資產保存維護計畫，主管機關得廢止該保存者之認定。」所以這個是指文化部可以來廢止的。","我們必須要講，這個人才庫是要給有需要的人去找人才的，但是我們對於剛剛所說的，對文資人才殊榮的尊重，我們要紀念他，我們可以譬如在一些網站、史冊，或者什麼樣的形式，我們特別去紀念他，讓大家想瞭解的、想看的可以在這個地方看。所以不應該為了去美化這個數字，前後數字兜不攏，給我們的法條也不對，這樣有對嗎，部長？"],["李部長遠：當然是不對，非常感謝萬委員今天講的這些細節，其實我一直覺得我們文資保存要改變的地方還是蠻多的，因為我自己有開過會，發現它也有蠻多很嚴重的地方，包括……"],["萬委員美玲：是，所以……"],["李部長遠：未來我們能不能在制度面上鼓勵年輕人加入我們的修復，另外，我們對於文資保存的工作，給他一種榮耀感，這個我覺得蠻急迫的。"],["萬委員美玲：好，部長剛剛說希望年輕人加入，我們就要講，你看喔！你們現在真的非常缺人，如果按照剛才你們那個資料庫裡面是2,617人，扣掉已經過世還寫在上面的，還有一些身分重疊的在裡面，本席認為恐怕連2,500人都不到啦！但是現在登錄文化資產保存的總共有6,380件，2,500人不到，我覺得人力真的非常地吃緊。而您剛剛說要找年輕人來加入，可是目前大學、大專院校有開設文資專業科系的只有4間學校，包括臺北大學、雲林科大、臺北藝術大學及佛光大學，只有這4所，而且培養出來的人其實非常地有限。結果文化部表示，你們為了要培育文資人才，從104年開始起，你們設置了文資學院，這個學院不曉得部長您知不知道？"],["李部長遠：知道，我還去參觀過。"],["萬委員美玲：好，這個學院你們透過計畫經費的方式來補助，號稱104年到112年有一萬多人次去上課。但是部長，上完課以後，看起來很「澎湃」，而上完課以後，你們有沒有給他做認證？再來，培育出來的學員，你們有沒有列入文資人才庫？數量是多少，您知道嗎？"],["李部長遠：這點我真的搞不清楚。"],["萬委員美玲：我告訴您，好不好？這個數字您要不要自己說有多少人？"],["陳局長濟民：委員，文資學院人才的性質跟我們認證的……"],["萬委員美玲：你只要告訴我，從您剛剛說的文資學院出來的人，有多少你們把他列入文資人才庫裡面？"],["陳局長濟民：沒有。"],["萬委員美玲：沒有，好，部長，0啊！0，是只有0！也就是說，有一萬多個人來上課，上完課以後，煙花一場、煙花一場。所以部長，這些問題你剛接觸到，你也重視了，我覺得非常欣慰，因為我們要面對問題。因此我們如果找不到年輕的學生，然後我們又那麼缺文資人才，如果你們自己做的文資學院的經費也編下去了，最後進到人才庫的只有0喔！你們也沒有去做相關的追蹤。部長，我想今天因為時間也到了，不管是金曲獎也好，或者是文資學院也好，經費一下去了，煙花一場過後，我們留不下任何的東西，我覺得這樣是不行的，所以希望部長在人資的培育上面能夠更嚴謹，才能夠跟得上我們現在需要文資人才的速度，可以嗎？"],["李部長遠：是，萬委員，你講的就是我最近很憂心的，這涉及到一些證照的條件，我想我們會立刻面對法制的部分，來修法鼓勵這些年輕人可以投入我們的徵人工作，這一點我覺得非常重要。"],["萬委員美玲：最後一句，文化部自己要重視，好不好？"],["李部長遠：好。"],["萬委員美玲：不要連那個數字前後都兜不攏。"],["李部長遠：是。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：謝謝你。"],["主席：謝謝萬美玲委員，部長請回。","接下來請羅廷瑋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-18","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林德福","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","陳秀寳","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","范雲","鄭天財Sra 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\"end\": 484.427, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 492.068, \"end\": 503.157, \"text\": \"這兩個數字可能我們在認定上面定義上面有一點落差就像剛才講到有的過世了但是我們要遵從它所以我們還是把它保留在上頭\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 492.068, \"end\": 492.869, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 492.869, \"end\": 492.969, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 492.969, \"end\": 493.089, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 493.089, \"end\": 493.269, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 493.269, \"end\": 493.57, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 493.57, \"end\": 493.75, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 493.75, \"end\": 493.91, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 493.91, \"end\": 494.41, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 494.41, \"end\": 494.71, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 494.71, 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00:00:40,467\n萬美玲你好我們一樣回到上週六的金曲獎我想早上也聽了一下您對於這次金曲獎的一些回應但是我覺得還是要提一下我想首先請教部長整個金曲獎落幕了不管他的沸沸揚揚您認為這次的金曲獎辦得成功嗎?你給這次的金曲獎打幾分?我必須跟你承認我第一次參加金曲獎\n\n3\n00:00:41,829 --> 00:01:04,519\n所以這一次的進取獎在你的心目中成功嗎?打了幾分?我給他80分但是因為發生這些事情我給他扣5分75分這一次這個進取獎相關的出包剛才您的回答是說有硬體的問題有設備的問題有小編的問題那我整個看起來其實這些出的包其實都是非常低級的錯誤\n\n4\n00:01:05,379 --> 00:01:05,539\n臺灣電視公司第幾次成辦?\n\n5\n00:01:36,704 --> 00:01:37,565\n第幾次成辦?\n\n6\n00:01:53,750 --> 00:01:55,953\n所以我只問一下臺市連續幾年來承辦?他總共辦過幾次了?\n\n7\n00:02:11,028 --> 00:02:15,536\n其實他是在21屆到23屆你告訴我他總共辦過幾次幾次嗎對台式14次14次所以台式辦進取獎其實有高達14次部長\n\n8\n00:02:25,475 --> 00:02:45,506\n布長這個問題就嚴重囉其實他出包不是今年才出包因為您是今年可能才接了這個部長這個位置您有在現場去看他往年就出過很多次包了去年不知道您記不記得就在第34屆的金曲獎因為頒獎卡片他排版不佳就主持人念錯有沒有那還造成了大家很多的尷尬\n\n9\n00:02:46,186 --> 00:02:46,906\n我來回答我想請教部長\n\n10\n00:03:14,002 --> 00:03:16,545\n臺灣電視早期只有3家的時候他們能力非常好後來變成100家之後\n\n11\n00:03:33,459 --> 00:03:33,659\n市長徐市長\n\n12\n00:03:56,156 --> 00:04:14,609\n跟委員報告我們都是用公開招標的方式來用什麼樣的標最低標最有力標哪一種標我們是用那個準用最有力標最有力標好最有力標是評選嘛那何以十幾年來他有經驗然後還出錯出錯以後又再得標得標以後再出錯出錯又再得標可以告訴我為什麼嗎\n\n13\n00:04:15,690 --> 00:04:29,240\n其實這幾年都只有台式一家公司來投標那因為我們這案子我跟委員簡單報告因為我們整個金曲獎不是只有頒獎典禮我們要整個案子裡頭是從25號開始我們有個金曲獎這個我理解來部長所以他的工作項目比較繁雜一點部長有一個問題喔剛才呢回答說因為只有一家來所以這麼多年下來我們都只有一家來這中間的問題其實不小第一個為什麼只有一家來什麼原因\n\n14\n00:04:45,495 --> 00:05:10,406\n有沒有去理解過了解過那這個只有一家來有沒有一些人謀不當在裡面或者是有沒有一些疏忽在裡面或者是我們這個整個典禮活動預算經費不夠高沒有人要來您主要找出問題來嘛您不能老是一直給台式做然後呢平行形式的這樣給他做然後不斷去出錯最後是什麼最後就是部長您的感動到後來變成要去承接面對這些沸沸揚揚啊\n\n15\n00:05:12,322 --> 00:05:31,367\n市長我們要怎麼去解決這樣的問題我會整體檢討一下因為據我個人了解他這個費用真的是不高所以來標的非常少因為標的時候他會虧那台視是台灣第一家電視公司後來民營化之後他們很想要有那個形象所以他其實是\n\n16\n00:05:31,727 --> 00:05:58,397\n很想要有形象現在這樣形象好嗎?所以我想部長這件事情我們還是真的要做出一個懲處那如果說您都知道說假設是因為預算經費太低沒有人要來那你就要去思考怎麼樣辦好一個典禮在足夠的經費之下讓更有能力的人來去承接那如果已經是不斷在犯錯不斷在出包造成這個典禮去蒙羞那甚至於引起這樣沸沸揚揚你就要去思考\n\n17\n00:05:58,717 --> 00:05:58,917\n主席主席\n\n18\n00:06:18,886 --> 00:06:37,026\n今天部長在報告當中有提到我們在文資保存修復最需要的就是人才但現在人才的缺乏人才的斷層非常的嚴重那尤其部長不知道有沒有注意到我們現在從教育面向來看大家都往這個AI方向走所以其實眾理工\n\n19\n00:06:38,067 --> 00:06:40,430\n部長,您知不知道現在文化部的文化資產人才庫裡面有多少人?\n\n20\n00:06:58,683 --> 00:07:26,060\n細節我不清楚但是我們最近才開過一個會您剛剛講的問題是非常嚴重的所以您不知道有多少人是嗎好那我告訴部長我們現在的文資登入的總數是3237人包括保存者、傳統匠師、益生、古蹟修復、工程、工地、負責人等但是部長這個資料是文化部的資料庫但是我們有另外一個網站這個網站是要提供給需要文資人才找尋的資料網站您知道有這個網站嗎\n\n21\n00:07:27,341 --> 00:07:27,461\n文化部部長\n\n22\n00:07:48,351 --> 00:08:04,427\n而且這個2617個人這個網站當中啊這個人才庫竟然還有這個登錄已經過世的人啊所以我不理解第一個為什麼會有數字的落差第二個為什麼有過世的人我們還把他登錄在上面這是因為網站屬於更新還是美化數字\n\n23\n00:08:12,068 --> 00:08:23,157\n這兩個數字可能我們在認定上面定義上面有一點落差就像剛才講到有的過世了但是我們要遵從它所以我們還是把它保留在上頭\n\n24\n00:08:23,777 --> 00:08:47,819\n您說為什麼把他保留在上面?就是因為對他的尊崇啦,因為這是很好的...好,部長我想這個回答你也聽到了來,部長我們在這個網站上面叫做人才庫人才庫是要供給有需要的人來這個人才庫來找人才您同意我的說法嗎?我同意那我們把過世人放在這上面那找人才的人來這個網站上面看有意義嗎?我想喔\n\n25\n00:08:49,680 --> 00:09:01,492\n當時其實我們在調資料的時候文字局的答覆其實本席非常的不滿意他說這個是文字局的答覆他說文化部依照《文化資產法》第89條91條的登錄認定這個無形文化資產的這個保存者他這個過世之後基於剛回答的\n\n26\n00:09:09,540 --> 00:09:26,785\n尊重其殊榮所以保留於國家文化資產的這個網站人才庫啊結果呢部長您會不會去看一下89條91條完全沒有提到這個部分你們建文化部文資局給資料怎麼可以亂講亂答啊非常不尊重自己更不尊重委員啊\n\n27\n00:09:27,825 --> 00:09:54,718\n對不對?你對得起自己的專業嗎?亂講一通89條、91條哪有就這個來講好!本行上去找在93條可能還有一條比較相關的他是說這個93條規定保存者因為死亡變更解散或其他特殊理由無法執行前條之無形文化資產保存維護計畫主管機關得廢止該保存者之認定所以這個是說文化部是可以來廢止的那我們必須要講\n\n28\n00:09:55,858 --> 00:10:20,273\n這個人才庫是要給有需要的人去找人才的但是我們對於剛剛所說的這個文資人才的殊榮的尊重我們要紀念他我們可以比如說在一些網站啦史冊啦或者什麼樣的形式啊我們特別去紀念他讓大家想了解想看的那我們可以在這個地方來看所以不應該啊為了去美化這個數字前後數字都不攏給我們的法條啊這個也不對這樣有對嗎部長\n\n29\n00:10:23,549 --> 00:10:46,454\n當然是不對,我想說非常感謝萬委員今天講這些細節,其實我一直覺得我們的文資保存要改變的地方還是蠻多,因為我自己有開過會,發現它也蠻多很嚴重的地方,包括為了我們能不能在制度面上鼓勵年輕人加入我們的修復,另外我們對於文資保存的工作給它一種榮耀感,這個我覺得蠻緊張的\n\n30\n00:10:46,854 --> 00:10:48,215\n文化資產保存有6,380件,2500人不到\n\n31\n00:11:09,727 --> 00:11:38,830\n我覺得這個人力真的非常的吃緊而您剛說要找年輕的這個人來加入可是目前我們大學大專院校有開設文資專業的科系的只有四間學校包括臺北大學雲林科大還有臺北藝術大學跟佛光大學只有這四所而且培養出來的人其實非常的有限結果呢文化部說我們為了要培育文資人才104年開始期我們設置了文資學院那這個學院部長您知不知道\n\n32\n00:11:39,070 --> 00:11:39,991\n文資人才庫的數量是多少?您知道嗎?\n\n33\n00:12:05,632 --> 00:12:27,409\n對阿我真的搞不清楚我告訴您好不好這個數字阿您要不要自己說有多少人委員這個文資學院的人才阿他的性質跟我們你只要告訴我從這個文資人才您剛剛說這個文資學院出來的人有多少我們把他列入文資人才庫裡面有多少沒有沒有好部長林阿林\n\n34\n00:12:31,112 --> 00:12:35,546\n是只有零也就是說我們有一萬多個人來上課上完課以後煙花一場\n\n35\n00:12:36,926 --> 00:13:05,422\n沿花一場所以部長這些問題您剛接觸到您也重視了我覺得非常欣慰因為我們要面對問題喔所以我們如果啊找不到年輕的學生然後我們要那麼缺文資人才結果我們自己做的文資學院經費也變下去了最後進到人才庫只有零喔那我們也沒有去做相關的追蹤所以部長我想今天因為時間也到了喔那我希望啦齁我們不要有一些喔不管是我們金曲獎也好或者是我們在這個文資學院也好\n\n36\n00:13:05,942 --> 00:13:06,122\n萬美玲主席\n\n37\n00:13:36,163 --> 00:13:40,012\n最後一句文化部自己要重視好不好不要連那個數字的前後都不攏謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n83\t8832\t好,謝謝趙偉,我們也要有請李遠部長好,有請部長\n17195\t40467\t萬美玲你好我們一樣回到上週六的金曲獎我想早上也聽了一下您對於這次金曲獎的一些回應但是我覺得還是要提一下我想首先請教部長整個金曲獎落幕了不管他的沸沸揚揚您認為這次的金曲獎辦得成功嗎?你給這次的金曲獎打幾分?我必須跟你承認我第一次參加金曲獎\n41829\t64519\t所以這一次的進取獎在你的心目中成功嗎?打了幾分?我給他80分但是因為發生這些事情我給他扣5分75分這一次這個進取獎相關的出包剛才您的回答是說有硬體的問題有設備的問題有小編的問題那我整個看起來其實這些出的包其實都是非常低級的錯誤\n65379\t65539\t臺灣電視公司第幾次成辦?\n96704\t97565\t第幾次成辦?\n113750\t115953\t所以我只問一下臺市連續幾年來承辦?他總共辦過幾次了?\n131028\t135536\t其實他是在21屆到23屆你告訴我他總共辦過幾次幾次嗎對 台式14次14次所以台式辦進取獎其實有高達14次部長\n145475\t165506\t布長 這個問題就嚴重囉其實他出包不是今年才出包因為您是今年可能才接了這個部長這個位置您有在現場去看他往年就出過很多次包了去年不知道您記不記得就在第34屆的金曲獎因為頒獎卡片他排版不佳就主持人念錯有沒有那還造成了大家很多的尷尬\n166186\t166906\t我來回答我想請教部長\n194002\t196545\t臺灣電視早期只有3家的時候他們能力非常好後來變成100家之後\n213459\t213659\t市長 徐市長\n236156\t254609\t跟委員報告 我們都是用公開招標的方式來用什麼樣的標 最低標 最有力標 哪一種標我們是用那個 準用最有力標最有力標 好 最有力標是評選嘛那何以十幾年來 他有經驗 然後還出錯出錯以後又再得標 得標以後再出錯 出錯又再得標可以告訴我為什麼嗎\n255690\t269240\t其實這幾年都只有台式一家公司來投標那因為我們這案子我跟委員簡單報告因為我們整個金曲獎不是只有頒獎典禮我們要整個案子裡頭是從25號開始我們有個金曲獎這個我理解來部長所以他的工作項目比較繁雜一點部長有一個問題喔剛才呢回答說因為只有一家來所以這麼多年下來我們都只有一家來這中間的問題其實不小第一個為什麼只有一家來什麼原因\n285495\t310406\t有沒有去理解過 了解過那這個只有一家來有沒有一些人謀不當在裡面或者是有沒有一些疏忽在裡面或者是我們這個整個典禮活動預算經費不夠高沒有人要來您主要找出問題來嘛您不能老是一直給台式做然後呢平行形式的這樣給他做然後不斷去出錯最後是什麼最後就是部長您的感動到後來變成要去承接面對這些沸沸揚揚啊\n312322\t331367\t市長我們要怎麼去解決這樣的問題我會整體檢討一下因為據我個人了解他這個費用真的是不高所以來標的非常少因為標的時候他會虧那台視是台灣第一家電視公司後來民營化之後他們很想要有那個形象所以他其實是\n331727\t358397\t很想要有形象現在這樣形象好嗎?所以我想部長這件事情我們還是真的要做出一個懲處那如果說您都知道說假設是因為預算經費太低沒有人要來那你就要去思考怎麼樣辦好一個典禮在足夠的經費之下讓更有能力的人來去承接那如果已經是不斷在犯錯不斷在出包造成這個典禮去蒙羞那甚至於引起這樣沸沸揚揚你就要去思考\n358717\t358917\t主席主席\n378886\t397026\t今天部長在報告當中有提到我們在文資保存修復最需要的就是人才但現在人才的缺乏人才的斷層非常的嚴重那尤其部長不知道有沒有注意到我們現在從教育面向來看大家都往這個AI方向走所以其實眾理工\n398067\t400430\t部長,您知不知道現在文化部的文化資產人才庫裡面有多少人?\n418683\t446060\t細節我不清楚但是我們最近才開過一個會您剛剛講的問題是非常嚴重的所以您不知道有多少人是嗎好 那我告訴部長我們現在的文資登入的總數是3237人包括保存者、傳統匠師、益生、古蹟修復、工程、工地、負責人等但是部長這個資料是文化部的資料庫但是我們有另外一個網站這個網站是要提供給需要文資人才找尋的資料網站您知道有這個網站嗎\n447341\t447461\t文化部部長\n468351\t484427\t而且這個2617個人這個網站當中啊這個人才庫竟然還有這個登錄已經過世的人啊所以我不理解第一個為什麼會有數字的落差第二個為什麼有過世的人我們還把他登錄在上面這是因為網站屬於更新還是美化數字\n492068\t503157\t這兩個數字可能我們在認定上面定義上面有一點落差就像剛才講到有的過世了但是我們要遵從它所以我們還是把它保留在上頭\n503777\t527819\t您說為什麼把他保留在上面?就是因為對他的尊崇啦,因為這是很好的...好,部長我想這個回答你也聽到了來,部長我們在這個網站上面叫做人才庫人才庫是要供給有需要的人來這個人才庫來找人才您同意我的說法嗎?我同意那我們把過世人放在這上面那找人才的人來這個網站上面看有意義嗎?我想喔\n529680\t541492\t當時其實我們在調資料的時候文字局的答覆其實本席非常的不滿意他說這個是文字局的答覆他說文化部依照《文化資產法》第89條91條的登錄認定這個無形文化資產的這個保存者他這個過世之後基於剛回答的\n549540\t566785\t尊重其殊榮所以保留於國家文化資產的這個網站人才庫啊結果呢部長您會不會去看一下89條91條完全沒有提到這個部分你們建文化部文資局給資料怎麼可以亂講亂答啊非常不尊重自己更不尊重委員啊\n567825\t594718\t對不對?你對得起自己的專業嗎?亂講一通89條、91條哪有就這個來講好!本行上去找在93條可能還有一條比較相關的他是說這個93條規定保存者因為死亡變更解散或其他特殊理由無法執行前條之無形文化資產保存維護計畫主管機關得廢止該保存者之認定所以這個是說文化部是可以來廢止的那我們必須要講\n595858\t620273\t這個人才庫是要給有需要的人去找人才的但是我們對於剛剛所說的這個文資人才的殊榮的尊重我們要紀念他我們可以比如說在一些網站啦史冊啦或者什麼樣的形式啊我們特別去紀念他讓大家想了解想看的那我們可以在這個地方來看所以不應該啊為了去美化這個數字前後數字都不攏給我們的法條啊這個也不對這樣有對嗎部長\n623549\t646454\t當然是不對,我想說非常感謝萬委員今天講這些細節,其實我一直覺得我們的文資保存要改變的地方還是蠻多,因為我自己有開過會,發現它也蠻多很嚴重的地方,包括為了我們能不能在制度面上鼓勵年輕人加入我們的修復,另外我們對於文資保存的工作給它一種榮耀感,這個我覺得蠻緊張的\n646854\t648215\t文化資產保存有6,380件,2500人不到\n669727\t698830\t我覺得這個人力真的非常的吃緊而您剛說要找年輕的這個人來加入可是目前我們大學大專院校有開設文資專業的科系的只有四間學校包括臺北大學雲林科大還有臺北藝術大學跟佛光大學只有這四所而且培養出來的人其實非常的有限結果呢文化部說我們為了要培育文資人才104年開始期我們設置了文資學院那這個學院部長您知不知道\n699070\t699991\t文資人才庫的數量是多少?您知道嗎?\n725632\t747409\t對阿我真的搞不清楚我告訴您好不好這個數字阿您要不要自己說有多少人委員這個文資學院的人才阿他的性質跟我們你只要告訴我從這個文資人才您剛剛說這個文資學院出來的人有多少我們把他列入文資人才庫裡面有多少沒有沒有好部長林阿林\n751112\t755546\t是只有零也就是說我們有一萬多個人來上課上完課以後煙花一場\n756926\t785422\t沿花一場所以部長這些問題您剛接觸到您也重視了我覺得非常欣慰因為我們要面對問題喔所以我們如果啊找不到年輕的學生然後我們要那麼缺文資人才結果我們自己做的文資學院經費也變下去了最後進到人才庫只有零喔那我們也沒有去做相關的追蹤所以部長我想今天因為時間也到了喔那我希望啦齁我們不要有一些喔不管是我們金曲獎也好或者是我們在這個文資學院也好\n785942\t786122\t萬美玲主席\n816163\t820012\t最後一句 文化部自己要重視好不好不要連那個數字的前後都不攏謝謝部長 謝謝\n","txt":"好,謝謝趙偉,我們也要有請李遠部長好,有請部長\n萬美玲你好我們一樣回到上週六的金曲獎我想早上也聽了一下您對於這次金曲獎的一些回應但是我覺得還是要提一下我想首先請教部長整個金曲獎落幕了不管他的沸沸揚揚您認為這次的金曲獎辦得成功嗎?你給這次的金曲獎打幾分?我必須跟你承認我第一次參加金曲獎\n所以這一次的進取獎在你的心目中成功嗎?打了幾分?我給他80分但是因為發生這些事情我給他扣5分75分這一次這個進取獎相關的出包剛才您的回答是說有硬體的問題有設備的問題有小編的問題那我整個看起來其實這些出的包其實都是非常低級的錯誤\n臺灣電視公司第幾次成辦?\n第幾次成辦?\n所以我只問一下臺市連續幾年來承辦?他總共辦過幾次了?\n其實他是在21屆到23屆你告訴我他總共辦過幾次幾次嗎對 台式14次14次所以台式辦進取獎其實有高達14次部長\n布長 這個問題就嚴重囉其實他出包不是今年才出包因為您是今年可能才接了這個部長這個位置您有在現場去看他往年就出過很多次包了去年不知道您記不記得就在第34屆的金曲獎因為頒獎卡片他排版不佳就主持人念錯有沒有那還造成了大家很多的尷尬\n我來回答我想請教部長\n臺灣電視早期只有3家的時候他們能力非常好後來變成100家之後\n市長 徐市長\n跟委員報告 我們都是用公開招標的方式來用什麼樣的標 最低標 最有力標 哪一種標我們是用那個 準用最有力標最有力標 好 最有力標是評選嘛那何以十幾年來 他有經驗 然後還出錯出錯以後又再得標 得標以後再出錯 出錯又再得標可以告訴我為什麼嗎\n其實這幾年都只有台式一家公司來投標那因為我們這案子我跟委員簡單報告因為我們整個金曲獎不是只有頒獎典禮我們要整個案子裡頭是從25號開始我們有個金曲獎這個我理解來部長所以他的工作項目比較繁雜一點部長有一個問題喔剛才呢回答說因為只有一家來所以這麼多年下來我們都只有一家來這中間的問題其實不小第一個為什麼只有一家來什麼原因\n有沒有去理解過 了解過那這個只有一家來有沒有一些人謀不當在裡面或者是有沒有一些疏忽在裡面或者是我們這個整個典禮活動預算經費不夠高沒有人要來您主要找出問題來嘛您不能老是一直給台式做然後呢平行形式的這樣給他做然後不斷去出錯最後是什麼最後就是部長您的感動到後來變成要去承接面對這些沸沸揚揚啊\n市長我們要怎麼去解決這樣的問題我會整體檢討一下因為據我個人了解他這個費用真的是不高所以來標的非常少因為標的時候他會虧那台視是台灣第一家電視公司後來民營化之後他們很想要有那個形象所以他其實是\n很想要有形象現在這樣形象好嗎?所以我想部長這件事情我們還是真的要做出一個懲處那如果說您都知道說假設是因為預算經費太低沒有人要來那你就要去思考怎麼樣辦好一個典禮在足夠的經費之下讓更有能力的人來去承接那如果已經是不斷在犯錯不斷在出包造成這個典禮去蒙羞那甚至於引起這樣沸沸揚揚你就要去思考\n主席主席\n今天部長在報告當中有提到我們在文資保存修復最需要的就是人才但現在人才的缺乏人才的斷層非常的嚴重那尤其部長不知道有沒有注意到我們現在從教育面向來看大家都往這個AI方向走所以其實眾理工\n部長,您知不知道現在文化部的文化資產人才庫裡面有多少人?\n細節我不清楚但是我們最近才開過一個會您剛剛講的問題是非常嚴重的所以您不知道有多少人是嗎好 那我告訴部長我們現在的文資登入的總數是3237人包括保存者、傳統匠師、益生、古蹟修復、工程、工地、負責人等但是部長這個資料是文化部的資料庫但是我們有另外一個網站這個網站是要提供給需要文資人才找尋的資料網站您知道有這個網站嗎\n文化部部長\n而且這個2617個人這個網站當中啊這個人才庫竟然還有這個登錄已經過世的人啊所以我不理解第一個為什麼會有數字的落差第二個為什麼有過世的人我們還把他登錄在上面這是因為網站屬於更新還是美化數字\n這兩個數字可能我們在認定上面定義上面有一點落差就像剛才講到有的過世了但是我們要遵從它所以我們還是把它保留在上頭\n您說為什麼把他保留在上面?就是因為對他的尊崇啦,因為這是很好的...好,部長我想這個回答你也聽到了來,部長我們在這個網站上面叫做人才庫人才庫是要供給有需要的人來這個人才庫來找人才您同意我的說法嗎?我同意那我們把過世人放在這上面那找人才的人來這個網站上面看有意義嗎?我想喔\n當時其實我們在調資料的時候文字局的答覆其實本席非常的不滿意他說這個是文字局的答覆他說文化部依照《文化資產法》第89條91條的登錄認定這個無形文化資產的這個保存者他這個過世之後基於剛回答的\n尊重其殊榮所以保留於國家文化資產的這個網站人才庫啊結果呢部長您會不會去看一下89條91條完全沒有提到這個部分你們建文化部文資局給資料怎麼可以亂講亂答啊非常不尊重自己更不尊重委員啊\n對不對?你對得起自己的專業嗎?亂講一通89條、91條哪有就這個來講好!本行上去找在93條可能還有一條比較相關的他是說這個93條規定保存者因為死亡變更解散或其他特殊理由無法執行前條之無形文化資產保存維護計畫主管機關得廢止該保存者之認定所以這個是說文化部是可以來廢止的那我們必須要講\n這個人才庫是要給有需要的人去找人才的但是我們對於剛剛所說的這個文資人才的殊榮的尊重我們要紀念他我們可以比如說在一些網站啦史冊啦或者什麼樣的形式啊我們特別去紀念他讓大家想了解想看的那我們可以在這個地方來看所以不應該啊為了去美化這個數字前後數字都不攏給我們的法條啊這個也不對這樣有對嗎部長\n當然是不對,我想說非常感謝萬委員今天講這些細節,其實我一直覺得我們的文資保存要改變的地方還是蠻多,因為我自己有開過會,發現它也蠻多很嚴重的地方,包括為了我們能不能在制度面上鼓勵年輕人加入我們的修復,另外我們對於文資保存的工作給它一種榮耀感,這個我覺得蠻緊張的\n文化資產保存有6,380件,2500人不到\n我覺得這個人力真的非常的吃緊而您剛說要找年輕的這個人來加入可是目前我們大學大專院校有開設文資專業的科系的只有四間學校包括臺北大學雲林科大還有臺北藝術大學跟佛光大學只有這四所而且培養出來的人其實非常的有限結果呢文化部說我們為了要培育文資人才104年開始期我們設置了文資學院那這個學院部長您知不知道\n文資人才庫的數量是多少?您知道嗎?\n對阿我真的搞不清楚我告訴您好不好這個數字阿您要不要自己說有多少人委員這個文資學院的人才阿他的性質跟我們你只要告訴我從這個文資人才您剛剛說這個文資學院出來的人有多少我們把他列入文資人才庫裡面有多少沒有沒有好部長林阿林\n是只有零也就是說我們有一萬多個人來上課上完課以後煙花一場\n沿花一場所以部長這些問題您剛接觸到您也重視了我覺得非常欣慰因為我們要面對問題喔所以我們如果啊找不到年輕的學生然後我們要那麼缺文資人才結果我們自己做的文資學院經費也變下去了最後進到人才庫只有零喔那我們也沒有去做相關的追蹤所以部長我想今天因為時間也到了喔那我希望啦齁我們不要有一些喔不管是我們金曲獎也好或者是我們在這個文資學院也好\n萬美玲主席\n最後一句 文化部自己要重視好不好不要連那個數字的前後都不攏謝謝部長 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.083 --> 00:08.832\n好,謝謝趙偉,我們也要有請李遠部長好,有請部長\n\n00:17.195 --> 00:40.467\n萬美玲你好我們一樣回到上週六的金曲獎我想早上也聽了一下您對於這次金曲獎的一些回應但是我覺得還是要提一下我想首先請教部長整個金曲獎落幕了不管他的沸沸揚揚您認為這次的金曲獎辦得成功嗎?你給這次的金曲獎打幾分?我必須跟你承認我第一次參加金曲獎\n\n00:41.829 --> 01:04.519\n所以這一次的進取獎在你的心目中成功嗎?打了幾分?我給他80分但是因為發生這些事情我給他扣5分75分這一次這個進取獎相關的出包剛才您的回答是說有硬體的問題有設備的問題有小編的問題那我整個看起來其實這些出的包其實都是非常低級的錯誤\n\n01:05.379 --> 01:05.539\n臺灣電視公司第幾次成辦?\n\n01:36.704 --> 01:37.565\n第幾次成辦?\n\n01:53.750 --> 01:55.953\n所以我只問一下臺市連續幾年來承辦?他總共辦過幾次了?\n\n02:11.028 --> 02:15.536\n其實他是在21屆到23屆你告訴我他總共辦過幾次幾次嗎對台式14次14次所以台式辦進取獎其實有高達14次部長\n\n02:25.475 --> 02:45.506\n布長這個問題就嚴重囉其實他出包不是今年才出包因為您是今年可能才接了這個部長這個位置您有在現場去看他往年就出過很多次包了去年不知道您記不記得就在第34屆的金曲獎因為頒獎卡片他排版不佳就主持人念錯有沒有那還造成了大家很多的尷尬\n\n02:46.186 --> 02:46.906\n我來回答我想請教部長\n\n03:14.002 --> 03:16.545\n臺灣電視早期只有3家的時候他們能力非常好後來變成100家之後\n\n03:33.459 --> 03:33.659\n市長徐市長\n\n03:56.156 --> 04:14.609\n跟委員報告我們都是用公開招標的方式來用什麼樣的標最低標最有力標哪一種標我們是用那個準用最有力標最有力標好最有力標是評選嘛那何以十幾年來他有經驗然後還出錯出錯以後又再得標得標以後再出錯出錯又再得標可以告訴我為什麼嗎\n\n04:15.690 --> 04:29.240\n其實這幾年都只有台式一家公司來投標那因為我們這案子我跟委員簡單報告因為我們整個金曲獎不是只有頒獎典禮我們要整個案子裡頭是從25號開始我們有個金曲獎這個我理解來部長所以他的工作項目比較繁雜一點部長有一個問題喔剛才呢回答說因為只有一家來所以這麼多年下來我們都只有一家來這中間的問題其實不小第一個為什麼只有一家來什麼原因\n\n04:45.495 --> 05:10.406\n有沒有去理解過了解過那這個只有一家來有沒有一些人謀不當在裡面或者是有沒有一些疏忽在裡面或者是我們這個整個典禮活動預算經費不夠高沒有人要來您主要找出問題來嘛您不能老是一直給台式做然後呢平行形式的這樣給他做然後不斷去出錯最後是什麼最後就是部長您的感動到後來變成要去承接面對這些沸沸揚揚啊\n\n05:12.322 --> 05:31.367\n市長我們要怎麼去解決這樣的問題我會整體檢討一下因為據我個人了解他這個費用真的是不高所以來標的非常少因為標的時候他會虧那台視是台灣第一家電視公司後來民營化之後他們很想要有那個形象所以他其實是\n\n05:31.727 --> 05:58.397\n很想要有形象現在這樣形象好嗎?所以我想部長這件事情我們還是真的要做出一個懲處那如果說您都知道說假設是因為預算經費太低沒有人要來那你就要去思考怎麼樣辦好一個典禮在足夠的經費之下讓更有能力的人來去承接那如果已經是不斷在犯錯不斷在出包造成這個典禮去蒙羞那甚至於引起這樣沸沸揚揚你就要去思考\n\n05:58.717 --> 05:58.917\n主席主席\n\n06:18.886 --> 06:37.026\n今天部長在報告當中有提到我們在文資保存修復最需要的就是人才但現在人才的缺乏人才的斷層非常的嚴重那尤其部長不知道有沒有注意到我們現在從教育面向來看大家都往這個AI方向走所以其實眾理工\n\n06:38.067 --> 06:40.430\n部長,您知不知道現在文化部的文化資產人才庫裡面有多少人?\n\n06:58.683 --> 07:26.060\n細節我不清楚但是我們最近才開過一個會您剛剛講的問題是非常嚴重的所以您不知道有多少人是嗎好那我告訴部長我們現在的文資登入的總數是3237人包括保存者、傳統匠師、益生、古蹟修復、工程、工地、負責人等但是部長這個資料是文化部的資料庫但是我們有另外一個網站這個網站是要提供給需要文資人才找尋的資料網站您知道有這個網站嗎\n\n07:27.341 --> 07:27.461\n文化部部長\n\n07:48.351 --> 08:04.427\n而且這個2617個人這個網站當中啊這個人才庫竟然還有這個登錄已經過世的人啊所以我不理解第一個為什麼會有數字的落差第二個為什麼有過世的人我們還把他登錄在上面這是因為網站屬於更新還是美化數字\n\n08:12.068 --> 08:23.157\n這兩個數字可能我們在認定上面定義上面有一點落差就像剛才講到有的過世了但是我們要遵從它所以我們還是把它保留在上頭\n\n08:23.777 --> 08:47.819\n您說為什麼把他保留在上面?就是因為對他的尊崇啦,因為這是很好的...好,部長我想這個回答你也聽到了來,部長我們在這個網站上面叫做人才庫人才庫是要供給有需要的人來這個人才庫來找人才您同意我的說法嗎?我同意那我們把過世人放在這上面那找人才的人來這個網站上面看有意義嗎?我想喔\n\n08:49.680 --> 09:01.492\n當時其實我們在調資料的時候文字局的答覆其實本席非常的不滿意他說這個是文字局的答覆他說文化部依照《文化資產法》第89條91條的登錄認定這個無形文化資產的這個保存者他這個過世之後基於剛回答的\n\n09:09.540 --> 09:26.785\n尊重其殊榮所以保留於國家文化資產的這個網站人才庫啊結果呢部長您會不會去看一下89條91條完全沒有提到這個部分你們建文化部文資局給資料怎麼可以亂講亂答啊非常不尊重自己更不尊重委員啊\n\n09:27.825 --> 09:54.718\n對不對?你對得起自己的專業嗎?亂講一通89條、91條哪有就這個來講好!本行上去找在93條可能還有一條比較相關的他是說這個93條規定保存者因為死亡變更解散或其他特殊理由無法執行前條之無形文化資產保存維護計畫主管機關得廢止該保存者之認定所以這個是說文化部是可以來廢止的那我們必須要講\n\n09:55.858 --> 10:20.273\n這個人才庫是要給有需要的人去找人才的但是我們對於剛剛所說的這個文資人才的殊榮的尊重我們要紀念他我們可以比如說在一些網站啦史冊啦或者什麼樣的形式啊我們特別去紀念他讓大家想了解想看的那我們可以在這個地方來看所以不應該啊為了去美化這個數字前後數字都不攏給我們的法條啊這個也不對這樣有對嗎部長\n\n10:23.549 --> 10:46.454\n當然是不對,我想說非常感謝萬委員今天講這些細節,其實我一直覺得我們的文資保存要改變的地方還是蠻多,因為我自己有開過會,發現它也蠻多很嚴重的地方,包括為了我們能不能在制度面上鼓勵年輕人加入我們的修復,另外我們對於文資保存的工作給它一種榮耀感,這個我覺得蠻緊張的\n\n10:46.854 --> 10:48.215\n文化資產保存有6,380件,2500人不到\n\n11:09.727 --> 11:38.830\n我覺得這個人力真的非常的吃緊而您剛說要找年輕的這個人來加入可是目前我們大學大專院校有開設文資專業的科系的只有四間學校包括臺北大學雲林科大還有臺北藝術大學跟佛光大學只有這四所而且培養出來的人其實非常的有限結果呢文化部說我們為了要培育文資人才104年開始期我們設置了文資學院那這個學院部長您知不知道\n\n11:39.070 --> 11:39.991\n文資人才庫的數量是多少?您知道嗎?\n\n12:05.632 --> 12:27.409\n對阿我真的搞不清楚我告訴您好不好這個數字阿您要不要自己說有多少人委員這個文資學院的人才阿他的性質跟我們你只要告訴我從這個文資人才您剛剛說這個文資學院出來的人有多少我們把他列入文資人才庫裡面有多少沒有沒有好部長林阿林\n\n12:31.112 --> 12:35.546\n是只有零也就是說我們有一萬多個人來上課上完課以後煙花一場\n\n12:36.926 --> 13:05.422\n沿花一場所以部長這些問題您剛接觸到您也重視了我覺得非常欣慰因為我們要面對問題喔所以我們如果啊找不到年輕的學生然後我們要那麼缺文資人才結果我們自己做的文資學院經費也變下去了最後進到人才庫只有零喔那我們也沒有去做相關的追蹤所以部長我想今天因為時間也到了喔那我希望啦齁我們不要有一些喔不管是我們金曲獎也好或者是我們在這個文資學院也好\n\n13:05.942 --> 13:06.122\n萬美玲主席\n\n13:36.163 --> 13:40.012\n最後一句文化部自己要重視好不好不要連那個數字的前後都不攏謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.083,"end":8.832,"text":"好,謝謝趙偉,我們也要有請李遠部長好,有請部長"},{"start":17.195,"end":40.467,"text":"萬美玲你好我們一樣回到上週六的金曲獎我想早上也聽了一下您對於這次金曲獎的一些回應但是我覺得還是要提一下我想首先請教部長整個金曲獎落幕了不管他的沸沸揚揚您認為這次的金曲獎辦得成功嗎?你給這次的金曲獎打幾分?我必須跟你承認我第一次參加金曲獎"},{"start":41.829,"end":64.519,"text":"所以這一次的進取獎在你的心目中成功嗎?打了幾分?我給他80分但是因為發生這些事情我給他扣5分75分這一次這個進取獎相關的出包剛才您的回答是說有硬體的問題有設備的問題有小編的問題那我整個看起來其實這些出的包其實都是非常低級的錯誤"},{"start":65.379,"end":65.539,"text":"臺灣電視公司第幾次成辦?"},{"start":96.704,"end":97.565,"text":"第幾次成辦?"},{"start":113.75,"end":115.953,"text":"所以我只問一下臺市連續幾年來承辦?他總共辦過幾次了?"},{"start":131.028,"end":135.536,"text":"其實他是在21屆到23屆你告訴我他總共辦過幾次幾次嗎對 台式14次14次所以台式辦進取獎其實有高達14次部長"},{"start":145.475,"end":165.506,"text":"布長 這個問題就嚴重囉其實他出包不是今年才出包因為您是今年可能才接了這個部長這個位置您有在現場去看他往年就出過很多次包了去年不知道您記不記得就在第34屆的金曲獎因為頒獎卡片他排版不佳就主持人念錯有沒有那還造成了大家很多的尷尬"},{"start":166.186,"end":166.906,"text":"我來回答我想請教部長"},{"start":194.002,"end":196.545,"text":"臺灣電視早期只有3家的時候他們能力非常好後來變成100家之後"},{"start":213.459,"end":213.659,"text":"市長 徐市長"},{"start":236.156,"end":254.609,"text":"跟委員報告 我們都是用公開招標的方式來用什麼樣的標 最低標 最有力標 哪一種標我們是用那個 準用最有力標最有力標 好 最有力標是評選嘛那何以十幾年來 他有經驗 然後還出錯出錯以後又再得標 得標以後再出錯 出錯又再得標可以告訴我為什麼嗎"},{"start":255.69,"end":269.24,"text":"其實這幾年都只有台式一家公司來投標那因為我們這案子我跟委員簡單報告因為我們整個金曲獎不是只有頒獎典禮我們要整個案子裡頭是從25號開始我們有個金曲獎這個我理解來部長所以他的工作項目比較繁雜一點部長有一個問題喔剛才呢回答說因為只有一家來所以這麼多年下來我們都只有一家來這中間的問題其實不小第一個為什麼只有一家來什麼原因"},{"start":285.495,"end":310.406,"text":"有沒有去理解過 了解過那這個只有一家來有沒有一些人謀不當在裡面或者是有沒有一些疏忽在裡面或者是我們這個整個典禮活動預算經費不夠高沒有人要來您主要找出問題來嘛您不能老是一直給台式做然後呢平行形式的這樣給他做然後不斷去出錯最後是什麼最後就是部長您的感動到後來變成要去承接面對這些沸沸揚揚啊"},{"start":312.322,"end":331.367,"text":"市長我們要怎麼去解決這樣的問題我會整體檢討一下因為據我個人了解他這個費用真的是不高所以來標的非常少因為標的時候他會虧那台視是台灣第一家電視公司後來民營化之後他們很想要有那個形象所以他其實是"},{"start":331.727,"end":358.397,"text":"很想要有形象現在這樣形象好嗎?所以我想部長這件事情我們還是真的要做出一個懲處那如果說您都知道說假設是因為預算經費太低沒有人要來那你就要去思考怎麼樣辦好一個典禮在足夠的經費之下讓更有能力的人來去承接那如果已經是不斷在犯錯不斷在出包造成這個典禮去蒙羞那甚至於引起這樣沸沸揚揚你就要去思考"},{"start":358.717,"end":358.917,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":378.886,"end":397.026,"text":"今天部長在報告當中有提到我們在文資保存修復最需要的就是人才但現在人才的缺乏人才的斷層非常的嚴重那尤其部長不知道有沒有注意到我們現在從教育面向來看大家都往這個AI方向走所以其實眾理工"},{"start":398.067,"end":400.43,"text":"部長,您知不知道現在文化部的文化資產人才庫裡面有多少人?"},{"start":418.683,"end":446.06,"text":"細節我不清楚但是我們最近才開過一個會您剛剛講的問題是非常嚴重的所以您不知道有多少人是嗎好 那我告訴部長我們現在的文資登入的總數是3237人包括保存者、傳統匠師、益生、古蹟修復、工程、工地、負責人等但是部長這個資料是文化部的資料庫但是我們有另外一個網站這個網站是要提供給需要文資人才找尋的資料網站您知道有這個網站嗎"},{"start":447.341,"end":447.461,"text":"文化部部長"},{"start":468.351,"end":484.427,"text":"而且這個2617個人這個網站當中啊這個人才庫竟然還有這個登錄已經過世的人啊所以我不理解第一個為什麼會有數字的落差第二個為什麼有過世的人我們還把他登錄在上面這是因為網站屬於更新還是美化數字"},{"start":492.068,"end":503.157,"text":"這兩個數字可能我們在認定上面定義上面有一點落差就像剛才講到有的過世了但是我們要遵從它所以我們還是把它保留在上頭"},{"start":503.777,"end":527.819,"text":"您說為什麼把他保留在上面?就是因為對他的尊崇啦,因為這是很好的...好,部長我想這個回答你也聽到了來,部長我們在這個網站上面叫做人才庫人才庫是要供給有需要的人來這個人才庫來找人才您同意我的說法嗎?我同意那我們把過世人放在這上面那找人才的人來這個網站上面看有意義嗎?我想喔"},{"start":529.68,"end":541.492,"text":"當時其實我們在調資料的時候文字局的答覆其實本席非常的不滿意他說這個是文字局的答覆他說文化部依照《文化資產法》第89條91條的登錄認定這個無形文化資產的這個保存者他這個過世之後基於剛回答的"},{"start":549.54,"end":566.785,"text":"尊重其殊榮所以保留於國家文化資產的這個網站人才庫啊結果呢部長您會不會去看一下89條91條完全沒有提到這個部分你們建文化部文資局給資料怎麼可以亂講亂答啊非常不尊重自己更不尊重委員啊"},{"start":567.825,"end":594.718,"text":"對不對?你對得起自己的專業嗎?亂講一通89條、91條哪有就這個來講好!本行上去找在93條可能還有一條比較相關的他是說這個93條規定保存者因為死亡變更解散或其他特殊理由無法執行前條之無形文化資產保存維護計畫主管機關得廢止該保存者之認定所以這個是說文化部是可以來廢止的那我們必須要講"},{"start":595.858,"end":620.273,"text":"這個人才庫是要給有需要的人去找人才的但是我們對於剛剛所說的這個文資人才的殊榮的尊重我們要紀念他我們可以比如說在一些網站啦史冊啦或者什麼樣的形式啊我們特別去紀念他讓大家想了解想看的那我們可以在這個地方來看所以不應該啊為了去美化這個數字前後數字都不攏給我們的法條啊這個也不對這樣有對嗎部長"},{"start":623.549,"end":646.454,"text":"當然是不對,我想說非常感謝萬委員今天講這些細節,其實我一直覺得我們的文資保存要改變的地方還是蠻多,因為我自己有開過會,發現它也蠻多很嚴重的地方,包括為了我們能不能在制度面上鼓勵年輕人加入我們的修復,另外我們對於文資保存的工作給它一種榮耀感,這個我覺得蠻緊張的"},{"start":646.854,"end":648.215,"text":"文化資產保存有6,380件,2500人不到"},{"start":669.727,"end":698.83,"text":"我覺得這個人力真的非常的吃緊而您剛說要找年輕的這個人來加入可是目前我們大學大專院校有開設文資專業的科系的只有四間學校包括臺北大學雲林科大還有臺北藝術大學跟佛光大學只有這四所而且培養出來的人其實非常的有限結果呢文化部說我們為了要培育文資人才104年開始期我們設置了文資學院那這個學院部長您知不知道"},{"start":699.07,"end":699.991,"text":"文資人才庫的數量是多少?您知道嗎?"},{"start":725.632,"end":747.409,"text":"對阿我真的搞不清楚我告訴您好不好這個數字阿您要不要自己說有多少人委員這個文資學院的人才阿他的性質跟我們你只要告訴我從這個文資人才您剛剛說這個文資學院出來的人有多少我們把他列入文資人才庫裡面有多少沒有沒有好部長林阿林"},{"start":751.112,"end":755.546,"text":"是只有零也就是說我們有一萬多個人來上課上完課以後煙花一場"},{"start":756.926,"end":785.422,"text":"沿花一場所以部長這些問題您剛接觸到您也重視了我覺得非常欣慰因為我們要面對問題喔所以我們如果啊找不到年輕的學生然後我們要那麼缺文資人才結果我們自己做的文資學院經費也變下去了最後進到人才庫只有零喔那我們也沒有去做相關的追蹤所以部長我想今天因為時間也到了喔那我希望啦齁我們不要有一些喔不管是我們金曲獎也好或者是我們在這個文資學院也好"},{"start":785.942,"end":786.122,"text":"萬美玲主席"},{"start":816.163,"end":820.012,"text":"最後一句 文化部自己要重視好不好不要連那個數字的前後都不攏謝謝部長 謝謝"}]}}}}