{"id":154462,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154462","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd963804d17c24c05e27d0a78c1009ae5ed15f5ccb8d26769b71115e0c3c9f18cf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"10:03:48 - 10:18:17","影片長度":"00:14:29","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「『文化資產保存法』施行40年有餘，修復體系翻新升級」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T10:03:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T10:18:17+08:00","duration":869,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":431,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（10時3分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：葛委員，你好。"],["葛委員如鈞：部長好。今天豔陽高照，但是我們的文化，在AI的世界裡頭卻可能見不得光喔！我想先請教一下部長，我們今天的文化資產，對內具有教育跟歷史的意義，對外則有提升臺灣國際的知名度，及發展觀光的重要功能，我相信這些應該是大家都同意的。我想請教您，假設國外的朋友想要到臺灣進行文化的深度旅遊，他如果透過AI的工具，初步瞭解臺灣文化資產保存的情況，想要來規劃一個很棒的旅遊行程，你認為他們可以透過AI工具得到正確的答案嗎？","我們先來看一下第一個基本題，請問我們臺灣目前有多少國定古蹟？以下我們找了華爾街日報各個評比比較熱門的幾個AI，加上我們的TAIDE，我們讓它做了一些回復。那我們想請教一下部長，當中何者的答復比較是正確答案，或者是比較接近正確的答案？部長要不要感受一下AI跟人類的差距啊？有沒有哪一個是比較接近正確的答案？"],["李部長遠：111處，Gemini那個比較對。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，我們看一下正確答案，確實我們的AI現在還及不了人類，尤其及不了部長喔！非常感謝部長的答復。","第二個部分，我們也來問AI，就是請舉出幾個臺灣的國定古蹟？這個是AI的答復，部長，您覺得這幾組答案裡面，有哪幾個AI工具回答是完全正確的？前面4個就是國際評比時經常在使用的，下面最後這個TAIDE是我們臺灣自己做的。"],["李部長遠：3跟4比較對。"],["葛委員如鈞：3跟4比較對是不是？就是Copilot跟Gemini，我想文化部對於文資保存的主題，顯然是做了非常多的功課，沒有錯喔，3跟4的答案是完全正確的。有點可惜啊！我們臺灣自己做的TAIDE答復是錯誤的，故宮博物院並不是我們的國定古蹟。部長，我相信你也相當瞭解啦！其實我自己從進到立法院以來就一再強調開放資料的重要性，您答對了，文化部也答對了，但是我們的AI竟然答錯了，表示什麼呢？表示他們得到的資訊可能不夠完整。","我一直在講，如果我擁有蒙娜麗莎這幅畫，我作為擁有者會做出來最錯誤的決定，就是禁止她被印在T-shirt和馬克杯上面，因為這樣子再過50年或再過500年，全世界就再也沒有人知道蒙娜麗莎這幅畫了。開放是文化唯一的生存之道，開放越多人知道，才有越多的人想要一親芳澤，並且認識她、擁抱她。","從前面我們詢問AI兩個問題裡面，我們其實就已經發現了，AI工具的回答不完全正確，一部分的原因可能是資料過舊沒有更新；另外一部分的原因，其實很可能是我們的相關部會對於AI去開放文化資產保存的資料，讓它去學習可能不夠完整、不夠主動、不夠積極，導致有一些相關的錯誤。部長，我想請教，你手中或者文化部正握有全世界獨一無二的瑰寶，就是我們臺灣的文化資產，您是否願意更主動積極地向全世界以及全世界的AI開放臺灣豐富的文化涵養，讓它50年、100年以後都能夠被世人所惦念，讓更多人想要一親芳澤？"],["李部長遠：這一點我要先瞭解一下法律，因為我個人的意願好像還要再考慮法律問題、著作權等等喔！"],["葛委員如鈞：我想法律是要隨著時代改變，我們現在就在立法院，如果您覺得法律有什麼需要修正，我們可以一起來協作。部長，如果您也同意這樣子的方向啦！是不是能夠提出具體的向AI開放文化資料的期程？法律哪裡有問題？我們一起來努力嘛！尤其TAIDE我們剛剛看到一個答錯的，是臺灣開發的第一個生成式AI，我個人非常支持，政府也應該全力支持，但是從回答內容來看，TAIDE自己作為我們臺灣自己開發的AI，資料卻是AI裡面最舊的。我們認為包含文化部在內，各個部會的資料都應該儘速向它開放，包含文字、圖片、影片，甚至包含3D模型，部長，我們希望未來能不能往這個方向來研議？"],["李部長遠：好，我們會研究這個部分。"],["葛委員如鈞：接下來談到文資保存，其實文化部依文化資產保存法，委託成立的國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊，想請教一下部長，是不是有掌握目前國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊的成員人數一共有幾人？"],["李部長遠：32位。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好喔！32人的團隊要負責全國111處國定古蹟的巡檢輔導，建立個案資料還要定期更新，人力非常的吃緊。其實目前國內外我們剛剛只是講說，我們可以主動積極地提供資料給AI，可是AI也可以主動積極地來幫助我們，我們來看一下國內外有幾個運用AI工具做文資保存的案例，第一個，日本文化廳從2020年起，運用AI檢查城樓、寺院、古宅等等。文化廳也說，他們也面臨人員緊縮、老齡化的問題，希望透過AI，用數據累積的方式，不只協助巡察，還協助預判未來什麼樣的情況、什麼樣的氣候可能會面臨需要修理的情況。","再來我們看法國，2019年一把大火，讓八百多年歷史的聖母院付之一炬。我作為一個阿宅，真的覺得還好我們有玩遊戲，遊戲公司之前在製作遊戲的時候，有做全面3DVR的掃描，導致高解析度的巴黎聖母院有被虛擬化、AI化，使得聖母院得以進行更快速的災後修復工作。","在臺灣，2021年嘉義市政府有跟雲科大合作，建置戶外AI智慧古物監測保存系統，透過AI進行變形或者傾斜狀況的紀錄以及監測。2022年雲科大的團隊更開發出全臺首部AI文物智慧巡檢機器人，跟苗栗縣政府合作。","想請教一下部長，近5年來，文化部有沒有推動運用AI科技協助文資保存的計畫？"],["李部長遠：文化資產的鑑定科技資料都完全……未來我們會做，把AI的技術引進我們原來就有的監測技術，包括文化資產現地保存。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，現在有沒有？"],["李部長遠：現在沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，確實我們詢問過貴部，有說近5年文資局雖然尚無使用AI進行保存的計畫，但也希望未來可以評議，為什麼？文化部向行政院爭取歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫第5期，6年的計畫總經費高達160億，從今年開始施行。能不能請部長研議一下，運用AI協助文化保存，納入這一次跨年期的計畫當中？這個有沒有機會研議？"],["李部長遠：沒有問題，委員的建議非常好，我們會優先納入。"],["葛委員如鈞：AI是要幫助人類，日前卓榮泰院長也在答詢的時候說，要落實部部有AI，但是目前還沒有看到什麼AI的人在部會裡，也許文化部可以搶先，各個部會都要用AI人才，這是院長的承諾。部長可不可以承諾，從文資保存部門做起，至少進用一名AI的人才，並且用AI協助文資保存，讓古蹟服務團隊的人力可以變成33加N，等於多了一個AI的人才，運用AI擴大人類的能力，甚至無限擴增，有沒有機會研議？"],["李部長遠：絕對有，因為行政院目前鼓勵每一個部會都用AI的技術。"],["葛委員如鈞：希望你們在一個月內將相關研議結果，以書面提供給本席，有機會嗎？"],["李部長遠：是，可以。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝部長。接下來要跟部長談一個很重要的議題──文化平權，我們剛剛講的只是普及，現在要講平權。近年來文化部致力於推動文化平權，每年花費約7億元的預算。想請教一下部長，除了消弭實體世界中的歧視和偏見，文化部對於虛擬世界、AI世界的文化平權，有沒有提出相關的政策、規劃？有沒有計畫投入相應的經費？"],["李部長遠：我想請司長回答。"],["魏司長秋宜：委員好。謝謝委員的指教，目前文化平權預算的推動確實比較著重在實體的場域跟活動，這個部分我們會納入今年至往後推動的重點。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝。在這邊想提醒各位官員，我們在社群媒體的時代已經見證了，digital media、社群媒體對人類認知產生的影響是巨大而且快速的，AI絕對不會更慢，只會更快，而且更隱性。歐盟已經講了，會有輕推的作用，這個輕推會是微小但是巨大的影響，而且我們看不見。","為什麼我們會提醒部長，除了實體世界以外，也要重視虛擬世界、AI世界的平權？我特地準備了幾張AI繪製的圖片，我們首先請AI繪製了兩張醫生的圖片，再請AI繪製了兩張護理師的圖片，再請AI再畫兩張公車司機的圖片，再請AI畫了兩張空服人員的圖片，再請AI畫了兩張保母的圖片，再請AI畫了兩張副總統（vice president）的圖片，我們用中文，大家可以看一下，最後我們還讓它來一張剛剛所有角色的大合照。請教一下部長，有沒有發現這些圖片有奇怪的地方？"],["李部長遠：性別上大家有些偏見，還有階級。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒錯。首先，這些圖片帶有性別的刻板印象，醫生被預設為男性，護理師被預設為女性，而且一向面容姣好，公車司機一定是男性，空服人員、保母則一定是女性，還有副總統畫了4張，全部是男性。其次，這些圖片很可能還隱藏了種族歧視，所有的職業除了建築工人是有色人種以外，幾乎全部是白人，圖片當中亞洲人的身影寥寥無幾，明顯與真實世界的情況相異，當然也跟臺灣的情況不符。部長可以稍微思考一下AI的偏見如何產生。我們再來看一下文化的部分，請教一下部長，以下的圖片能不能分辨出哪一位是新娘？"],["李部長遠：中間的。"],["葛委員如鈞：事實上全部都是，地球上明明有那麼多元的文化，每一種文化都有風格獨具的儀式，但是我們如果請AI畫出新娘禮服的話，連畫N次全部都長一個樣子。其實史丹佛大學的研究已經發現了，AI在開發的階段，它所學習的數據跟文化大多不包括亞洲國家，這會導致它對世界的認知是有偏差的。我們認為AI帶有偏見的情況應該受到政府部門，尤其文化部門的重視，因為歐美國家想要藉由AI工具，將西方的文化塑造成主流文化，未來可能會引發AI文化殖民。","我們今天也看到中研院院士孔祥重先生提到，臺灣擁有民主、多元、自由的價值，我們認為AI應該結合文化，要結合民主，要結合平權。黃仁勳先生說臺灣是AI的中心，這雖然是一句褒獎，但何嘗不是一種提醒？只有文化開放，只有提供資訊讓AI學習，才能夠落實虛擬世界、AI世界的文化平權，讓臺灣不要淪落為文化的邊陲。臺灣不要只做AI的機房，90%的AI機器是臺灣做的，未來有沒有可能文化裡面，有90%的華人文化是由臺灣提供？部長能不能承諾，接下來文化部將會投入資源，進行虛擬世界、AI世界的文化普及、文化平權？我們能不能一起努力消弭虛擬世界裡頭一切大欺小、文化殖民、AI殖民的刻板印象跟歧視？我們有沒有機會一起努力？"],["李部長遠：謝謝葛委員，這個真的非常重要，我們會列入未來施政的考慮。"],["葛委員如鈞：開放資料，讓AI認識真正的臺灣，認識真正的人類文化。謝謝部長，我們一起為文化平權努力。感謝。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝葛委員。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員。","等一下吳沛憶委員質詢完，我們休息5分鐘。","接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-18","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林德福","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","陳秀寳","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","范雲","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 866.597, \"end\": 866.777, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 866.777, \"end\": 867.037, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 867.037, \"end\": 867.117, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 867.117, \"end\": 867.257, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 867.257, \"end\": 867.638, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 867.638, \"end\": 867.658, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,884 --> 00:00:12,186\n謝謝主席,有請部長有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:19,592 --> 00:00:48,715\n各位委員你好部長好今天艷陽高照但是我們的文化在AI的世界裡頭卻可能見不得光我想先請教一下部長我們今天文化資產我相信應該是大家都同意對內具有教育跟歷史的意義對外則有提升台灣國際的知名度發展觀光的重要功能我想請教你假設國外的朋友想要到台灣進行文化的深度旅遊\n\n3\n00:00:49,495 --> 00:00:50,016\n請問我們台灣目前有多少國定古蹟?\n\n4\n00:01:08,012 --> 00:01:30,356\n那以下我們找了這個華爾街日報比較各個評比比較熱門的幾個AI加上我們的台德我們讓他做了一些回覆那我們想請教一下部長當中何者的答覆比較是正確答案或者比較接近正確的答案部長要不要感受一下AI跟人類的差距有沒有哪一個是比較接近正確的\n\n5\n00:01:36,049 --> 00:01:36,729\n請舉出幾個台灣的國定古蹟\n\n6\n00:02:02,398 --> 00:02:19,687\n那這個是AI的答覆啦看看部長您覺得這幾組答案裡面有哪幾個AI的工具回答是完全正確的嗎前面四個就是國際在評比的時候經常在使用的那下面最後這個台德是我們台灣自己做的\n\n7\n00:02:20,603 --> 00:02:40,642\n三跟四比較對三跟四比較對是不是Copilot跟Gemini這個我想文化部對於文資保存的這個主題顯然是做了非常多的功課沒有錯在三跟四的答案是完全正確的那有點可惜我們這個台灣自己做的台德答覆是錯誤的故宮博物院並不是我們的國定古蹟\n\n8\n00:02:41,923 --> 00:02:59,014\n那我想部長我相信你也相當了解啦其實我自己從進到立法院以來就一再強調開放資料的重要性您答對了文化部也答對了但我們AI竟然答錯了表示什麼呢表示他們得到的資訊可能不夠完整\n\n9\n00:03:00,255 --> 00:03:17,741\n我一直在講如果我擁有蒙娜麗莎這幅畫我會作為擁有者會做出來最錯誤的決定就是禁止它被印在T恤或馬克杯上面因為這樣再過50年或再過500年全世界就沒有人再知道蒙娜麗莎這幅畫\n\n10\n00:03:19,069 --> 00:03:45,104\n開放是文化唯一的生存之道開放越多人知道才有越多的人想要一清方擇並且認識它、擁抱它從前面我們詢問AI兩個問題裡面我們其實就已經發現了AI工具的回答不完全正確一部分的原因可能是資料過久沒有更新另外一部分的原因其實很可能是我們的相關部會對於AI去開放\n\n11\n00:03:45,504 --> 00:03:59,720\n文化資產保存的資料讓他去學習可能不夠完整不夠主動不夠積極導致有一些相關的錯誤部長我想請教您手中正有握有著全世界或者文化部\n\n12\n00:04:00,401 --> 00:04:00,721\n這點我要先了解一下法律\n\n13\n00:04:21,636 --> 00:04:43,328\n因為我個人的意願好像我還得考慮這個法律問題制作權等等我想法律是要隨著時代改變我們現在就在立法院所以如果您覺得法律有什麼希望我們可以一起來協作部長如果您也同意這樣的方向是不是能夠提出具體的像AI開放文化資料的期程\n\n14\n00:04:44,108 --> 00:05:02,242\n法律哪裡有問題我們一起來努力嘛尤其台德我們剛剛看到的一個答錯的是台灣開發的第一個深層式的AI我個人非常支持政府也應該全力支持但是從回答內容來看台德自己作為台灣我們自己開發的AI資料卻是AI裡面最舊的\n\n15\n00:05:03,623 --> 00:05:22,250\n我們認為包含文化部在內各個部會的資料都應該儘速向他開放包含文字包含圖片包含影片甚至包含3D模型我們希望部長能不能未來往這個方向來研議好我們會研究這部分我想接下來談到文資保存其實文化部依文化資產保存法委託成立的\n\n16\n00:05:25,311 --> 00:05:38,340\n國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊想請教一下部長是否是有掌握目前國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊的成員人數一共有幾人?32人的團隊要負責全國111處的國定古蹟的巡檢輔導\n\n17\n00:05:46,545 --> 00:06:04,070\n建立個案資料還要定期更新人力非常吃緊其實目前國內外我們剛剛只是講說我們可以主動提供資料給AI可是AI也可以主動積極的來幫助我們我們來看一下國內外有幾個用AI工具運用文資保存的案例\n\n18\n00:06:05,370 --> 00:06:31,411\n日本在2020年起日本的文化廳運用AI來檢查城樓、寺院、古宅等等文化廳也說他們也面臨到人員緊縮、老齡化的問題希望透過AI用數據累積的方式不只協助巡查還協助預判未來什麼樣的情況、什麼樣的氣候可能會面臨到需要修理的情況\n\n19\n00:06:32,412 --> 00:06:59,293\n再來我們看法國2019年一把大火讓800多年歷史的聖母院複製一具但是還好我作為一個阿宅真的覺得還好我們有玩遊戲遊戲公司之前在做遊戲的時候有做了全面3DVR的掃描導致這個高解析度的巴黎聖母院有被虛擬化AI化使得聖母院得以進行更快速的災後修復的工作\n\n20\n00:07:00,114 --> 00:07:24,363\n在臺灣,2021年嘉義市政府有跟雲科大合作去建置所謂的戶外AI智慧古物監測保存系統,透過AI來進行變形或者傾斜狀況的紀錄以及監測。2022年雲科大的團隊更開發出全台首部AI文物智慧巡檢機器人,跟苗栗縣政府合作。想請教一下部長,\n\n21\n00:07:25,023 --> 00:07:31,025\n近5年來,文化部有沒有推動有關運用AI科技協助文資保存的計畫?現在有沒有?\n\n22\n00:07:52,835 --> 00:08:06,008\n確實我們詢問貴部說近5年這個文資局雖然尚無使用AI進行保存的計畫但也希望未來可以來做評議為什麼文化部向行政院爭取到歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫第5期6年的計畫總經費高達160億從今年開始施行\n\n23\n00:08:12,014 --> 00:08:25,384\n那我是希望能不能請部長來演繹一下能夠運用AI科技來協助文化保存納入這一次的跨年期的計畫當中這個有沒有機會來演繹我想我們會沒有問題委員你的建議非常好我們會納入那個優先\n\n24\n00:08:31,408 --> 00:08:31,728\n文資保存部門\n\n25\n00:08:51,195 --> 00:09:10,355\n做起至少禁用一名AI的人才並且用AI協助文資保存讓我們古蹟服務團隊的人力可以變成33加N等於是多一個AI的人才再運用AI等於去擴大人類的能力甚至無限擴增有沒有機會來研議\n\n26\n00:09:12,427 --> 00:09:14,028\n接下來要看部長談一個很重要的議題,文化平權。我們剛剛講的只是普及,但是我們現在要來講平權。\n\n27\n00:09:32,523 --> 00:09:52,587\n近年來文化部致力於推動文化平權每年花費約7億元的預算想請教一下部長除了消米實體世界中的歧視和偏見文化部對於虛擬世界對AI世界的文化平權有沒有提出相關的政策規劃有沒有計劃要投入相應的經費這個我想請資產來講\n\n28\n00:09:58,095 --> 00:10:12,823\n委員好那謝謝委員的指教那目前我們文化平權這個預算的推動確實是比較著重在一些實體的場域跟活動那委員這個部分的話我們會納入我們今年至於往後的一個推動的一個重點\n\n29\n00:10:13,623 --> 00:10:30,151\n謝謝在這邊想提醒各位官員我們在社群媒體的時代已經見證了DigitalMedia社群媒體對人類的認知產生的影響是巨大且快速的AI絕對不會更慢只會更快而且更隱性歐盟已經講了\n\n30\n00:10:30,811 --> 00:10:31,932\n請AI繪製了兩張醫生的圖片我們再請AI繪製了兩張護理師的圖片\n\n31\n00:10:57,128 --> 00:11:26,369\n我們再請AI再畫了兩張公車司機的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張空服人員的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張保姆的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張副總統的圖片我們用中文大家可以看一下最後我們還讓他來了一張剛剛所有角色的大合照請教一下部長有沒有發現這些圖片有沒有奇怪的地方\n\n32\n00:11:34,340 --> 00:11:54,093\n首先這些圖片帶有性別刻板印象醫生被預設為男性護理師被預設為女性而且一向面容較好公車司機一定是男性空服人員保姆則一定是女性還有副總統我們畫的四張全部是男性其次這些圖片很可能還隱藏了種族歧視\n\n33\n00:11:54,713 --> 00:12:14,971\n所有的職業．除了建築工人．有色人種以外．幾乎全部是白人．圖片當中亞洲人的身影寥寥無幾．明顯與真實世界的情況．當然也跟台灣的情況不符．部長您可以稍微思考一下．AI的偏見是如何產生．我們再來看一下文化的部分．請教一下部長以下的圖片．能不能分辨出哪一位是新娘．中間的事實上全部都是\n\n34\n00:12:23,001 --> 00:12:44,339\n地球上明明有那麼多元的文化每種文化都有風格獨具的儀式但是我們如果請AI畫出新娘禮服的話連畫恩賜全部都長一個樣子所以我想其實史丹佛大學研究已經發現AI在開發的階段他所學習的數據跟文化大多不包括亞洲國家\n\n35\n00:12:45,680 --> 00:13:06,895\n這會導致他們對這個世界的認知是有偏差的我們認為AI帶有偏見的情況應該要受到政府相關部門尤其文化部門的重視歐美國家想要藉由AI工具將西方的文化塑造成主流文化未來可能會有所謂的AI文化殖民引發在之後\n\n36\n00:13:07,956 --> 00:13:29,547\n我們在今天也看到了中研院院士孔祥崇先生有提到台灣擁有民主、多元、自由的價值我們認為AI應該要結合文化、要結合民主、要結合平權黃恩勛先生說台灣是AI的中心這雖然是一句褒獎但何嘗不是一種提醒\n\n37\n00:13:30,683 --> 00:13:49,378\n只有文化開放只有提供資訊讓文化AI來學習才能夠落實虛擬世界AI世界的文化平權讓台灣不要淪落為所謂文化的邊陲我們台灣不要只做AI的機房90%的AI的機器是台灣做的\n\n38\n00:13:49,718 --> 00:13:50,518\n謝謝各位委員這個真的非常重要我們會列入我們未來的施政的一些考慮\n\n39\n00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:27,658\n開放資料讓AI認識真正的台灣認識真正的人類文化謝謝部長我們一起為文化平權的努力感謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10884\t12186\t謝謝主席,有請部長有請部長\n19592\t48715\t各位委員你好部長好今天艷陽高照但是我們的文化在AI的世界裡頭卻可能見不得光我想先請教一下部長我們今天文化資產我相信應該是大家都同意對內具有教育跟歷史的意義對外則有提升台灣國際的知名度發展觀光的重要功能我想請教你假設國外的朋友想要到台灣進行文化的深度旅遊\n49495\t50016\t請問我們台灣目前有多少國定古蹟?\n68012\t90356\t那以下我們找了這個華爾街日報比較各個評比比較熱門的幾個AI加上我們的台德我們讓他做了一些回覆那我們想請教一下部長當中何者的答覆比較是正確答案或者比較接近正確的答案部長要不要感受一下AI跟人類的差距有沒有哪一個是比較接近正確的\n96049\t96729\t請舉出幾個台灣的國定古蹟\n122398\t139687\t那這個是AI的答覆啦看看部長您覺得這幾組答案裡面有哪幾個AI的工具回答是完全正確的嗎前面四個就是國際在評比的時候經常在使用的那下面最後這個台德是我們台灣自己做的\n140603\t160642\t三跟四比較對三跟四比較對是不是Copilot跟Gemini這個我想文化部對於文資保存的這個主題顯然是做了非常多的功課沒有錯在三跟四的答案是完全正確的那有點可惜我們這個台灣自己做的台德答覆是錯誤的故宮博物院並不是我們的國定古蹟\n161923\t179014\t那我想部長我相信你也相當了解啦其實我自己從進到立法院以來就一再強調開放資料的重要性您答對了文化部也答對了但我們AI竟然答錯了表示什麼呢表示他們得到的資訊可能不夠完整\n180255\t197741\t我一直在講如果我擁有蒙娜麗莎這幅畫我會作為擁有者會做出來最錯誤的決定就是禁止它被印在T恤或馬克杯上面因為這樣再過50年或再過500年全世界就沒有人再知道蒙娜麗莎這幅畫\n199069\t225104\t開放是文化唯一的生存之道開放越多人知道才有越多的人想要一清方擇並且認識它、擁抱它從前面我們詢問AI兩個問題裡面我們其實就已經發現了AI工具的回答不完全正確一部分的原因可能是資料過久沒有更新另外一部分的原因其實很可能是我們的相關部會對於AI去開放\n225504\t239720\t文化資產保存的資料讓他去學習可能不夠完整不夠主動不夠積極導致有一些相關的錯誤部長我想請教您手中正有握有著全世界或者文化部\n240401\t240721\t這點我要先了解一下法律\n261636\t283328\t因為我個人的意願好像我還得考慮這個法律問題制作權等等我想法律是要隨著時代改變我們現在就在立法院所以如果您覺得法律有什麼希望我們可以一起來協作部長如果您也同意這樣的方向是不是能夠提出具體的像AI開放文化資料的期程\n284108\t302242\t法律哪裡有問題我們一起來努力嘛尤其台德我們剛剛看到的一個答錯的是台灣開發的第一個深層式的AI我個人非常支持政府也應該全力支持但是從回答內容來看台德自己作為台灣我們自己開發的AI資料卻是AI裡面最舊的\n303623\t322250\t我們認為包含文化部在內各個部會的資料都應該儘速向他開放包含文字包含圖片包含影片甚至包含3D模型我們希望部長能不能未來往這個方向來研議好 我們會研究這部分我想接下來談到文資保存其實文化部依文化資產保存法委託成立的\n325311\t338340\t國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊想請教一下部長是否是有掌握目前國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊的成員人數一共有幾人?32人的團隊要負責全國111處的國定古蹟的巡檢輔導\n346545\t364070\t建立個案資料還要定期更新人力非常吃緊其實目前國內外我們剛剛只是講說我們可以主動提供資料給AI可是AI也可以主動積極的來幫助我們我們來看一下國內外有幾個用AI工具運用文資保存的案例\n365370\t391411\t日本在2020年起日本的文化廳運用AI來檢查城樓、寺院、古宅等等文化廳也說他們也面臨到人員緊縮、老齡化的問題希望透過AI用數據累積的方式不只協助巡查還協助預判未來什麼樣的情況、什麼樣的氣候可能會面臨到需要修理的情況\n392412\t419293\t再來我們看法國2019年一把大火讓800多年歷史的聖母院複製一具但是還好我作為一個阿宅真的覺得還好我們有玩遊戲遊戲公司之前在做遊戲的時候有做了全面3D VR的掃描導致這個高解析度的巴黎聖母院有被虛擬化AI化使得聖母院得以進行更快速的災後修復的工作\n420114\t444363\t在臺灣,2021年嘉義市政府有跟雲科大合作去建置所謂的戶外AI智慧古物監測保存系統,透過AI來進行變形或者傾斜狀況的紀錄以及監測。2022年雲科大的團隊更開發出全台首部AI文物智慧巡檢機器人,跟苗栗縣政府合作。想請教一下部長,\n445023\t451025\t近5年來,文化部有沒有推動有關運用AI科技協助文資保存的計畫?現在有沒有?\n472835\t486008\t確實我們詢問貴部說近5年這個文資局雖然尚無使用AI進行保存的計畫但也希望未來可以來做評議為什麼文化部向行政院爭取到歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫第5期6年的計畫總經費高達160億從今年開始施行\n492014\t505384\t那我是希望能不能請部長來演繹一下能夠運用AI科技來協助文化保存納入這一次的跨年期的計畫當中這個有沒有機會來演繹我想我們會沒有問題委員你的建議非常好我們會納入那個優先\n511408\t511728\t文資保存部門\n531195\t550355\t做起至少禁用一名AI的人才並且用AI協助文資保存讓我們古蹟服務團隊的人力可以變成33加N等於是多一個AI的人才再運用AI等於去擴大人類的能力甚至無限擴增有沒有機會來研議\n552427\t554028\t接下來要看部長談一個很重要的議題,文化平權。我們剛剛講的只是普及,但是我們現在要來講平權。\n572523\t592587\t近年來文化部致力於推動文化平權每年花費約7億元的預算想請教一下部長除了消米實體世界中的歧視和偏見文化部對於虛擬世界對AI世界的文化平權有沒有提出相關的政策規劃有沒有計劃要投入相應的經費這個我想請資產來講\n598095\t612823\t委員好那謝謝委員的指教那目前我們文化平權這個預算的推動確實是比較著重在一些實體的場域跟活動那委員這個部分的話我們會納入我們今年至於往後的一個推動的一個重點\n613623\t630151\t謝謝在這邊想提醒各位官員我們在社群媒體的時代已經見證了Digital Media社群媒體對人類的認知產生的影響是巨大且快速的AI絕對不會更慢只會更快而且更隱性歐盟已經講了\n630811\t631932\t請AI繪製了兩張醫生的圖片我們再請AI繪製了兩張護理師的圖片\n657128\t686369\t我們再請AI再畫了兩張公車司機的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張空服人員的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張保姆的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張副總統的圖片我們用中文大家可以看一下最後我們還讓他來了一張剛剛所有角色的大合照請教一下部長有沒有發現這些圖片有沒有奇怪的地方\n694340\t714093\t首先這些圖片帶有性別刻板印象醫生被預設為男性護理師被預設為女性而且一向面容較好公車司機一定是男性空服人員保姆則一定是女性還有副總統我們畫的四張全部是男性其次這些圖片很可能還隱藏了種族歧視\n714713\t734971\t所有的職業．除了建築工人．有色人種以外．幾乎全部是白人．圖片當中亞洲人的身影寥寥無幾．明顯與真實世界的情況．當然也跟台灣的情況不符．部長您可以稍微思考一下．AI的偏見是如何產生．我們再來看一下文化的部分．請教一下部長以下的圖片．能不能分辨出哪一位是新娘．中間的事實上全部都是\n743001\t764339\t地球上明明有那麼多元的文化每種文化都有風格獨具的儀式但是我們如果請AI畫出新娘禮服的話連畫恩賜全部都長一個樣子所以我想其實史丹佛大學研究已經發現AI在開發的階段他所學習的數據跟文化大多不包括亞洲國家\n765680\t786895\t這會導致他們對這個世界的認知是有偏差的我們認為AI帶有偏見的情況應該要受到政府相關部門尤其文化部門的重視歐美國家想要藉由AI工具將西方的文化塑造成主流文化未來可能會有所謂的AI文化殖民引發在之後\n787956\t809547\t我們在今天也看到了中研院院士孔祥崇先生有提到台灣擁有民主、多元、自由的價值我們認為AI應該要結合文化、要結合民主、要結合平權黃恩勛先生說台灣是AI的中心這雖然是一句褒獎但何嘗不是一種提醒\n810683\t829378\t只有文化開放只有提供資訊讓文化AI來學習才能夠落實虛擬世界AI世界的文化平權讓台灣不要淪落為所謂文化的邊陲我們台灣不要只做AI的機房90%的AI的機器是台灣做的\n829718\t830518\t謝謝各位委員 這個真的非常重要我們會列入我們未來的施政的一些考慮\n860530\t867658\t開放資料讓AI認識真正的台灣認識真正的人類文化謝謝部長我們一起為文化平權的努力感謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請部長有請部長\n各位委員你好部長好今天艷陽高照但是我們的文化在AI的世界裡頭卻可能見不得光我想先請教一下部長我們今天文化資產我相信應該是大家都同意對內具有教育跟歷史的意義對外則有提升台灣國際的知名度發展觀光的重要功能我想請教你假設國外的朋友想要到台灣進行文化的深度旅遊\n請問我們台灣目前有多少國定古蹟?\n那以下我們找了這個華爾街日報比較各個評比比較熱門的幾個AI加上我們的台德我們讓他做了一些回覆那我們想請教一下部長當中何者的答覆比較是正確答案或者比較接近正確的答案部長要不要感受一下AI跟人類的差距有沒有哪一個是比較接近正確的\n請舉出幾個台灣的國定古蹟\n那這個是AI的答覆啦看看部長您覺得這幾組答案裡面有哪幾個AI的工具回答是完全正確的嗎前面四個就是國際在評比的時候經常在使用的那下面最後這個台德是我們台灣自己做的\n三跟四比較對三跟四比較對是不是Copilot跟Gemini這個我想文化部對於文資保存的這個主題顯然是做了非常多的功課沒有錯在三跟四的答案是完全正確的那有點可惜我們這個台灣自己做的台德答覆是錯誤的故宮博物院並不是我們的國定古蹟\n那我想部長我相信你也相當了解啦其實我自己從進到立法院以來就一再強調開放資料的重要性您答對了文化部也答對了但我們AI竟然答錯了表示什麼呢表示他們得到的資訊可能不夠完整\n我一直在講如果我擁有蒙娜麗莎這幅畫我會作為擁有者會做出來最錯誤的決定就是禁止它被印在T恤或馬克杯上面因為這樣再過50年或再過500年全世界就沒有人再知道蒙娜麗莎這幅畫\n開放是文化唯一的生存之道開放越多人知道才有越多的人想要一清方擇並且認識它、擁抱它從前面我們詢問AI兩個問題裡面我們其實就已經發現了AI工具的回答不完全正確一部分的原因可能是資料過久沒有更新另外一部分的原因其實很可能是我們的相關部會對於AI去開放\n文化資產保存的資料讓他去學習可能不夠完整不夠主動不夠積極導致有一些相關的錯誤部長我想請教您手中正有握有著全世界或者文化部\n這點我要先了解一下法律\n因為我個人的意願好像我還得考慮這個法律問題制作權等等我想法律是要隨著時代改變我們現在就在立法院所以如果您覺得法律有什麼希望我們可以一起來協作部長如果您也同意這樣的方向是不是能夠提出具體的像AI開放文化資料的期程\n法律哪裡有問題我們一起來努力嘛尤其台德我們剛剛看到的一個答錯的是台灣開發的第一個深層式的AI我個人非常支持政府也應該全力支持但是從回答內容來看台德自己作為台灣我們自己開發的AI資料卻是AI裡面最舊的\n我們認為包含文化部在內各個部會的資料都應該儘速向他開放包含文字包含圖片包含影片甚至包含3D模型我們希望部長能不能未來往這個方向來研議好 我們會研究這部分我想接下來談到文資保存其實文化部依文化資產保存法委託成立的\n國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊想請教一下部長是否是有掌握目前國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊的成員人數一共有幾人?32人的團隊要負責全國111處的國定古蹟的巡檢輔導\n建立個案資料還要定期更新人力非常吃緊其實目前國內外我們剛剛只是講說我們可以主動提供資料給AI可是AI也可以主動積極的來幫助我們我們來看一下國內外有幾個用AI工具運用文資保存的案例\n日本在2020年起日本的文化廳運用AI來檢查城樓、寺院、古宅等等文化廳也說他們也面臨到人員緊縮、老齡化的問題希望透過AI用數據累積的方式不只協助巡查還協助預判未來什麼樣的情況、什麼樣的氣候可能會面臨到需要修理的情況\n再來我們看法國2019年一把大火讓800多年歷史的聖母院複製一具但是還好我作為一個阿宅真的覺得還好我們有玩遊戲遊戲公司之前在做遊戲的時候有做了全面3D VR的掃描導致這個高解析度的巴黎聖母院有被虛擬化AI化使得聖母院得以進行更快速的災後修復的工作\n在臺灣,2021年嘉義市政府有跟雲科大合作去建置所謂的戶外AI智慧古物監測保存系統,透過AI來進行變形或者傾斜狀況的紀錄以及監測。2022年雲科大的團隊更開發出全台首部AI文物智慧巡檢機器人,跟苗栗縣政府合作。想請教一下部長,\n近5年來,文化部有沒有推動有關運用AI科技協助文資保存的計畫?現在有沒有?\n確實我們詢問貴部說近5年這個文資局雖然尚無使用AI進行保存的計畫但也希望未來可以來做評議為什麼文化部向行政院爭取到歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫第5期6年的計畫總經費高達160億從今年開始施行\n那我是希望能不能請部長來演繹一下能夠運用AI科技來協助文化保存納入這一次的跨年期的計畫當中這個有沒有機會來演繹我想我們會沒有問題委員你的建議非常好我們會納入那個優先\n文資保存部門\n做起至少禁用一名AI的人才並且用AI協助文資保存讓我們古蹟服務團隊的人力可以變成33加N等於是多一個AI的人才再運用AI等於去擴大人類的能力甚至無限擴增有沒有機會來研議\n接下來要看部長談一個很重要的議題,文化平權。我們剛剛講的只是普及,但是我們現在要來講平權。\n近年來文化部致力於推動文化平權每年花費約7億元的預算想請教一下部長除了消米實體世界中的歧視和偏見文化部對於虛擬世界對AI世界的文化平權有沒有提出相關的政策規劃有沒有計劃要投入相應的經費這個我想請資產來講\n委員好那謝謝委員的指教那目前我們文化平權這個預算的推動確實是比較著重在一些實體的場域跟活動那委員這個部分的話我們會納入我們今年至於往後的一個推動的一個重點\n謝謝在這邊想提醒各位官員我們在社群媒體的時代已經見證了Digital Media社群媒體對人類的認知產生的影響是巨大且快速的AI絕對不會更慢只會更快而且更隱性歐盟已經講了\n請AI繪製了兩張醫生的圖片我們再請AI繪製了兩張護理師的圖片\n我們再請AI再畫了兩張公車司機的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張空服人員的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張保姆的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張副總統的圖片我們用中文大家可以看一下最後我們還讓他來了一張剛剛所有角色的大合照請教一下部長有沒有發現這些圖片有沒有奇怪的地方\n首先這些圖片帶有性別刻板印象醫生被預設為男性護理師被預設為女性而且一向面容較好公車司機一定是男性空服人員保姆則一定是女性還有副總統我們畫的四張全部是男性其次這些圖片很可能還隱藏了種族歧視\n所有的職業．除了建築工人．有色人種以外．幾乎全部是白人．圖片當中亞洲人的身影寥寥無幾．明顯與真實世界的情況．當然也跟台灣的情況不符．部長您可以稍微思考一下．AI的偏見是如何產生．我們再來看一下文化的部分．請教一下部長以下的圖片．能不能分辨出哪一位是新娘．中間的事實上全部都是\n地球上明明有那麼多元的文化每種文化都有風格獨具的儀式但是我們如果請AI畫出新娘禮服的話連畫恩賜全部都長一個樣子所以我想其實史丹佛大學研究已經發現AI在開發的階段他所學習的數據跟文化大多不包括亞洲國家\n這會導致他們對這個世界的認知是有偏差的我們認為AI帶有偏見的情況應該要受到政府相關部門尤其文化部門的重視歐美國家想要藉由AI工具將西方的文化塑造成主流文化未來可能會有所謂的AI文化殖民引發在之後\n我們在今天也看到了中研院院士孔祥崇先生有提到台灣擁有民主、多元、自由的價值我們認為AI應該要結合文化、要結合民主、要結合平權黃恩勛先生說台灣是AI的中心這雖然是一句褒獎但何嘗不是一種提醒\n只有文化開放只有提供資訊讓文化AI來學習才能夠落實虛擬世界AI世界的文化平權讓台灣不要淪落為所謂文化的邊陲我們台灣不要只做AI的機房90%的AI的機器是台灣做的\n謝謝各位委員 這個真的非常重要我們會列入我們未來的施政的一些考慮\n開放資料讓AI認識真正的台灣認識真正的人類文化謝謝部長我們一起為文化平權的努力感謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.884 --> 00:12.186\n謝謝主席,有請部長有請部長\n\n00:19.592 --> 00:48.715\n各位委員你好部長好今天艷陽高照但是我們的文化在AI的世界裡頭卻可能見不得光我想先請教一下部長我們今天文化資產我相信應該是大家都同意對內具有教育跟歷史的意義對外則有提升台灣國際的知名度發展觀光的重要功能我想請教你假設國外的朋友想要到台灣進行文化的深度旅遊\n\n00:49.495 --> 00:50.016\n請問我們台灣目前有多少國定古蹟?\n\n01:08.012 --> 01:30.356\n那以下我們找了這個華爾街日報比較各個評比比較熱門的幾個AI加上我們的台德我們讓他做了一些回覆那我們想請教一下部長當中何者的答覆比較是正確答案或者比較接近正確的答案部長要不要感受一下AI跟人類的差距有沒有哪一個是比較接近正確的\n\n01:36.049 --> 01:36.729\n請舉出幾個台灣的國定古蹟\n\n02:02.398 --> 02:19.687\n那這個是AI的答覆啦看看部長您覺得這幾組答案裡面有哪幾個AI的工具回答是完全正確的嗎前面四個就是國際在評比的時候經常在使用的那下面最後這個台德是我們台灣自己做的\n\n02:20.603 --> 02:40.642\n三跟四比較對三跟四比較對是不是Copilot跟Gemini這個我想文化部對於文資保存的這個主題顯然是做了非常多的功課沒有錯在三跟四的答案是完全正確的那有點可惜我們這個台灣自己做的台德答覆是錯誤的故宮博物院並不是我們的國定古蹟\n\n02:41.923 --> 02:59.014\n那我想部長我相信你也相當了解啦其實我自己從進到立法院以來就一再強調開放資料的重要性您答對了文化部也答對了但我們AI竟然答錯了表示什麼呢表示他們得到的資訊可能不夠完整\n\n03:00.255 --> 03:17.741\n我一直在講如果我擁有蒙娜麗莎這幅畫我會作為擁有者會做出來最錯誤的決定就是禁止它被印在T恤或馬克杯上面因為這樣再過50年或再過500年全世界就沒有人再知道蒙娜麗莎這幅畫\n\n03:19.069 --> 03:45.104\n開放是文化唯一的生存之道開放越多人知道才有越多的人想要一清方擇並且認識它、擁抱它從前面我們詢問AI兩個問題裡面我們其實就已經發現了AI工具的回答不完全正確一部分的原因可能是資料過久沒有更新另外一部分的原因其實很可能是我們的相關部會對於AI去開放\n\n03:45.504 --> 03:59.720\n文化資產保存的資料讓他去學習可能不夠完整不夠主動不夠積極導致有一些相關的錯誤部長我想請教您手中正有握有著全世界或者文化部\n\n04:00.401 --> 04:00.721\n這點我要先了解一下法律\n\n04:21.636 --> 04:43.328\n因為我個人的意願好像我還得考慮這個法律問題制作權等等我想法律是要隨著時代改變我們現在就在立法院所以如果您覺得法律有什麼希望我們可以一起來協作部長如果您也同意這樣的方向是不是能夠提出具體的像AI開放文化資料的期程\n\n04:44.108 --> 05:02.242\n法律哪裡有問題我們一起來努力嘛尤其台德我們剛剛看到的一個答錯的是台灣開發的第一個深層式的AI我個人非常支持政府也應該全力支持但是從回答內容來看台德自己作為台灣我們自己開發的AI資料卻是AI裡面最舊的\n\n05:03.623 --> 05:22.250\n我們認為包含文化部在內各個部會的資料都應該儘速向他開放包含文字包含圖片包含影片甚至包含3D模型我們希望部長能不能未來往這個方向來研議好我們會研究這部分我想接下來談到文資保存其實文化部依文化資產保存法委託成立的\n\n05:25.311 --> 05:38.340\n國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊想請教一下部長是否是有掌握目前國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊的成員人數一共有幾人?32人的團隊要負責全國111處的國定古蹟的巡檢輔導\n\n05:46.545 --> 06:04.070\n建立個案資料還要定期更新人力非常吃緊其實目前國內外我們剛剛只是講說我們可以主動提供資料給AI可是AI也可以主動積極的來幫助我們我們來看一下國內外有幾個用AI工具運用文資保存的案例\n\n06:05.370 --> 06:31.411\n日本在2020年起日本的文化廳運用AI來檢查城樓、寺院、古宅等等文化廳也說他們也面臨到人員緊縮、老齡化的問題希望透過AI用數據累積的方式不只協助巡查還協助預判未來什麼樣的情況、什麼樣的氣候可能會面臨到需要修理的情況\n\n06:32.412 --> 06:59.293\n再來我們看法國2019年一把大火讓800多年歷史的聖母院複製一具但是還好我作為一個阿宅真的覺得還好我們有玩遊戲遊戲公司之前在做遊戲的時候有做了全面3DVR的掃描導致這個高解析度的巴黎聖母院有被虛擬化AI化使得聖母院得以進行更快速的災後修復的工作\n\n07:00.114 --> 07:24.363\n在臺灣,2021年嘉義市政府有跟雲科大合作去建置所謂的戶外AI智慧古物監測保存系統,透過AI來進行變形或者傾斜狀況的紀錄以及監測。2022年雲科大的團隊更開發出全台首部AI文物智慧巡檢機器人,跟苗栗縣政府合作。想請教一下部長,\n\n07:25.023 --> 07:31.025\n近5年來,文化部有沒有推動有關運用AI科技協助文資保存的計畫?現在有沒有?\n\n07:52.835 --> 08:06.008\n確實我們詢問貴部說近5年這個文資局雖然尚無使用AI進行保存的計畫但也希望未來可以來做評議為什麼文化部向行政院爭取到歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫第5期6年的計畫總經費高達160億從今年開始施行\n\n08:12.014 --> 08:25.384\n那我是希望能不能請部長來演繹一下能夠運用AI科技來協助文化保存納入這一次的跨年期的計畫當中這個有沒有機會來演繹我想我們會沒有問題委員你的建議非常好我們會納入那個優先\n\n08:31.408 --> 08:31.728\n文資保存部門\n\n08:51.195 --> 09:10.355\n做起至少禁用一名AI的人才並且用AI協助文資保存讓我們古蹟服務團隊的人力可以變成33加N等於是多一個AI的人才再運用AI等於去擴大人類的能力甚至無限擴增有沒有機會來研議\n\n09:12.427 --> 09:14.028\n接下來要看部長談一個很重要的議題,文化平權。我們剛剛講的只是普及,但是我們現在要來講平權。\n\n09:32.523 --> 09:52.587\n近年來文化部致力於推動文化平權每年花費約7億元的預算想請教一下部長除了消米實體世界中的歧視和偏見文化部對於虛擬世界對AI世界的文化平權有沒有提出相關的政策規劃有沒有計劃要投入相應的經費這個我想請資產來講\n\n09:58.095 --> 10:12.823\n委員好那謝謝委員的指教那目前我們文化平權這個預算的推動確實是比較著重在一些實體的場域跟活動那委員這個部分的話我們會納入我們今年至於往後的一個推動的一個重點\n\n10:13.623 --> 10:30.151\n謝謝在這邊想提醒各位官員我們在社群媒體的時代已經見證了DigitalMedia社群媒體對人類的認知產生的影響是巨大且快速的AI絕對不會更慢只會更快而且更隱性歐盟已經講了\n\n10:30.811 --> 10:31.932\n請AI繪製了兩張醫生的圖片我們再請AI繪製了兩張護理師的圖片\n\n10:57.128 --> 11:26.369\n我們再請AI再畫了兩張公車司機的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張空服人員的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張保姆的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張副總統的圖片我們用中文大家可以看一下最後我們還讓他來了一張剛剛所有角色的大合照請教一下部長有沒有發現這些圖片有沒有奇怪的地方\n\n11:34.340 --> 11:54.093\n首先這些圖片帶有性別刻板印象醫生被預設為男性護理師被預設為女性而且一向面容較好公車司機一定是男性空服人員保姆則一定是女性還有副總統我們畫的四張全部是男性其次這些圖片很可能還隱藏了種族歧視\n\n11:54.713 --> 12:14.971\n所有的職業．除了建築工人．有色人種以外．幾乎全部是白人．圖片當中亞洲人的身影寥寥無幾．明顯與真實世界的情況．當然也跟台灣的情況不符．部長您可以稍微思考一下．AI的偏見是如何產生．我們再來看一下文化的部分．請教一下部長以下的圖片．能不能分辨出哪一位是新娘．中間的事實上全部都是\n\n12:23.001 --> 12:44.339\n地球上明明有那麼多元的文化每種文化都有風格獨具的儀式但是我們如果請AI畫出新娘禮服的話連畫恩賜全部都長一個樣子所以我想其實史丹佛大學研究已經發現AI在開發的階段他所學習的數據跟文化大多不包括亞洲國家\n\n12:45.680 --> 13:06.895\n這會導致他們對這個世界的認知是有偏差的我們認為AI帶有偏見的情況應該要受到政府相關部門尤其文化部門的重視歐美國家想要藉由AI工具將西方的文化塑造成主流文化未來可能會有所謂的AI文化殖民引發在之後\n\n13:07.956 --> 13:29.547\n我們在今天也看到了中研院院士孔祥崇先生有提到台灣擁有民主、多元、自由的價值我們認為AI應該要結合文化、要結合民主、要結合平權黃恩勛先生說台灣是AI的中心這雖然是一句褒獎但何嘗不是一種提醒\n\n13:30.683 --> 13:49.378\n只有文化開放只有提供資訊讓文化AI來學習才能夠落實虛擬世界AI世界的文化平權讓台灣不要淪落為所謂文化的邊陲我們台灣不要只做AI的機房90%的AI的機器是台灣做的\n\n13:49.718 --> 13:50.518\n謝謝各位委員這個真的非常重要我們會列入我們未來的施政的一些考慮\n\n14:20.530 --> 14:27.658\n開放資料讓AI認識真正的台灣認識真正的人類文化謝謝部長我們一起為文化平權的努力感謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.884,"end":12.186,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長有請部長"},{"start":19.592,"end":48.715,"text":"各位委員你好部長好今天艷陽高照但是我們的文化在AI的世界裡頭卻可能見不得光我想先請教一下部長我們今天文化資產我相信應該是大家都同意對內具有教育跟歷史的意義對外則有提升台灣國際的知名度發展觀光的重要功能我想請教你假設國外的朋友想要到台灣進行文化的深度旅遊"},{"start":49.495,"end":50.016,"text":"請問我們台灣目前有多少國定古蹟?"},{"start":68.012,"end":90.356,"text":"那以下我們找了這個華爾街日報比較各個評比比較熱門的幾個AI加上我們的台德我們讓他做了一些回覆那我們想請教一下部長當中何者的答覆比較是正確答案或者比較接近正確的答案部長要不要感受一下AI跟人類的差距有沒有哪一個是比較接近正確的"},{"start":96.049,"end":96.729,"text":"請舉出幾個台灣的國定古蹟"},{"start":122.398,"end":139.687,"text":"那這個是AI的答覆啦看看部長您覺得這幾組答案裡面有哪幾個AI的工具回答是完全正確的嗎前面四個就是國際在評比的時候經常在使用的那下面最後這個台德是我們台灣自己做的"},{"start":140.603,"end":160.642,"text":"三跟四比較對三跟四比較對是不是Copilot跟Gemini這個我想文化部對於文資保存的這個主題顯然是做了非常多的功課沒有錯在三跟四的答案是完全正確的那有點可惜我們這個台灣自己做的台德答覆是錯誤的故宮博物院並不是我們的國定古蹟"},{"start":161.923,"end":179.014,"text":"那我想部長我相信你也相當了解啦其實我自己從進到立法院以來就一再強調開放資料的重要性您答對了文化部也答對了但我們AI竟然答錯了表示什麼呢表示他們得到的資訊可能不夠完整"},{"start":180.255,"end":197.741,"text":"我一直在講如果我擁有蒙娜麗莎這幅畫我會作為擁有者會做出來最錯誤的決定就是禁止它被印在T恤或馬克杯上面因為這樣再過50年或再過500年全世界就沒有人再知道蒙娜麗莎這幅畫"},{"start":199.069,"end":225.104,"text":"開放是文化唯一的生存之道開放越多人知道才有越多的人想要一清方擇並且認識它、擁抱它從前面我們詢問AI兩個問題裡面我們其實就已經發現了AI工具的回答不完全正確一部分的原因可能是資料過久沒有更新另外一部分的原因其實很可能是我們的相關部會對於AI去開放"},{"start":225.504,"end":239.72,"text":"文化資產保存的資料讓他去學習可能不夠完整不夠主動不夠積極導致有一些相關的錯誤部長我想請教您手中正有握有著全世界或者文化部"},{"start":240.401,"end":240.721,"text":"這點我要先了解一下法律"},{"start":261.636,"end":283.328,"text":"因為我個人的意願好像我還得考慮這個法律問題制作權等等我想法律是要隨著時代改變我們現在就在立法院所以如果您覺得法律有什麼希望我們可以一起來協作部長如果您也同意這樣的方向是不是能夠提出具體的像AI開放文化資料的期程"},{"start":284.108,"end":302.242,"text":"法律哪裡有問題我們一起來努力嘛尤其台德我們剛剛看到的一個答錯的是台灣開發的第一個深層式的AI我個人非常支持政府也應該全力支持但是從回答內容來看台德自己作為台灣我們自己開發的AI資料卻是AI裡面最舊的"},{"start":303.623,"end":322.25,"text":"我們認為包含文化部在內各個部會的資料都應該儘速向他開放包含文字包含圖片包含影片甚至包含3D模型我們希望部長能不能未來往這個方向來研議好 我們會研究這部分我想接下來談到文資保存其實文化部依文化資產保存法委託成立的"},{"start":325.311,"end":338.34,"text":"國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊想請教一下部長是否是有掌握目前國定古蹟分區專業服務團隊的成員人數一共有幾人?32人的團隊要負責全國111處的國定古蹟的巡檢輔導"},{"start":346.545,"end":364.07,"text":"建立個案資料還要定期更新人力非常吃緊其實目前國內外我們剛剛只是講說我們可以主動提供資料給AI可是AI也可以主動積極的來幫助我們我們來看一下國內外有幾個用AI工具運用文資保存的案例"},{"start":365.37,"end":391.411,"text":"日本在2020年起日本的文化廳運用AI來檢查城樓、寺院、古宅等等文化廳也說他們也面臨到人員緊縮、老齡化的問題希望透過AI用數據累積的方式不只協助巡查還協助預判未來什麼樣的情況、什麼樣的氣候可能會面臨到需要修理的情況"},{"start":392.412,"end":419.293,"text":"再來我們看法國2019年一把大火讓800多年歷史的聖母院複製一具但是還好我作為一個阿宅真的覺得還好我們有玩遊戲遊戲公司之前在做遊戲的時候有做了全面3D VR的掃描導致這個高解析度的巴黎聖母院有被虛擬化AI化使得聖母院得以進行更快速的災後修復的工作"},{"start":420.114,"end":444.363,"text":"在臺灣,2021年嘉義市政府有跟雲科大合作去建置所謂的戶外AI智慧古物監測保存系統,透過AI來進行變形或者傾斜狀況的紀錄以及監測。2022年雲科大的團隊更開發出全台首部AI文物智慧巡檢機器人,跟苗栗縣政府合作。想請教一下部長,"},{"start":445.023,"end":451.025,"text":"近5年來,文化部有沒有推動有關運用AI科技協助文資保存的計畫?現在有沒有?"},{"start":472.835,"end":486.008,"text":"確實我們詢問貴部說近5年這個文資局雖然尚無使用AI進行保存的計畫但也希望未來可以來做評議為什麼文化部向行政院爭取到歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫第5期6年的計畫總經費高達160億從今年開始施行"},{"start":492.014,"end":505.384,"text":"那我是希望能不能請部長來演繹一下能夠運用AI科技來協助文化保存納入這一次的跨年期的計畫當中這個有沒有機會來演繹我想我們會沒有問題委員你的建議非常好我們會納入那個優先"},{"start":511.408,"end":511.728,"text":"文資保存部門"},{"start":531.195,"end":550.355,"text":"做起至少禁用一名AI的人才並且用AI協助文資保存讓我們古蹟服務團隊的人力可以變成33加N等於是多一個AI的人才再運用AI等於去擴大人類的能力甚至無限擴增有沒有機會來研議"},{"start":552.427,"end":554.028,"text":"接下來要看部長談一個很重要的議題,文化平權。我們剛剛講的只是普及,但是我們現在要來講平權。"},{"start":572.523,"end":592.587,"text":"近年來文化部致力於推動文化平權每年花費約7億元的預算想請教一下部長除了消米實體世界中的歧視和偏見文化部對於虛擬世界對AI世界的文化平權有沒有提出相關的政策規劃有沒有計劃要投入相應的經費這個我想請資產來講"},{"start":598.095,"end":612.823,"text":"委員好那謝謝委員的指教那目前我們文化平權這個預算的推動確實是比較著重在一些實體的場域跟活動那委員這個部分的話我們會納入我們今年至於往後的一個推動的一個重點"},{"start":613.623,"end":630.151,"text":"謝謝在這邊想提醒各位官員我們在社群媒體的時代已經見證了Digital Media社群媒體對人類的認知產生的影響是巨大且快速的AI絕對不會更慢只會更快而且更隱性歐盟已經講了"},{"start":630.811,"end":631.932,"text":"請AI繪製了兩張醫生的圖片我們再請AI繪製了兩張護理師的圖片"},{"start":657.128,"end":686.369,"text":"我們再請AI再畫了兩張公車司機的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張空服人員的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張保姆的圖片我們再請AI畫了兩張副總統的圖片我們用中文大家可以看一下最後我們還讓他來了一張剛剛所有角色的大合照請教一下部長有沒有發現這些圖片有沒有奇怪的地方"},{"start":694.34,"end":714.093,"text":"首先這些圖片帶有性別刻板印象醫生被預設為男性護理師被預設為女性而且一向面容較好公車司機一定是男性空服人員保姆則一定是女性還有副總統我們畫的四張全部是男性其次這些圖片很可能還隱藏了種族歧視"},{"start":714.713,"end":734.971,"text":"所有的職業．除了建築工人．有色人種以外．幾乎全部是白人．圖片當中亞洲人的身影寥寥無幾．明顯與真實世界的情況．當然也跟台灣的情況不符．部長您可以稍微思考一下．AI的偏見是如何產生．我們再來看一下文化的部分．請教一下部長以下的圖片．能不能分辨出哪一位是新娘．中間的事實上全部都是"},{"start":743.001,"end":764.339,"text":"地球上明明有那麼多元的文化每種文化都有風格獨具的儀式但是我們如果請AI畫出新娘禮服的話連畫恩賜全部都長一個樣子所以我想其實史丹佛大學研究已經發現AI在開發的階段他所學習的數據跟文化大多不包括亞洲國家"},{"start":765.68,"end":786.895,"text":"這會導致他們對這個世界的認知是有偏差的我們認為AI帶有偏見的情況應該要受到政府相關部門尤其文化部門的重視歐美國家想要藉由AI工具將西方的文化塑造成主流文化未來可能會有所謂的AI文化殖民引發在之後"},{"start":787.956,"end":809.547,"text":"我們在今天也看到了中研院院士孔祥崇先生有提到台灣擁有民主、多元、自由的價值我們認為AI應該要結合文化、要結合民主、要結合平權黃恩勛先生說台灣是AI的中心這雖然是一句褒獎但何嘗不是一種提醒"},{"start":810.683,"end":829.378,"text":"只有文化開放只有提供資訊讓文化AI來學習才能夠落實虛擬世界AI世界的文化平權讓台灣不要淪落為所謂文化的邊陲我們台灣不要只做AI的機房90%的AI的機器是台灣做的"},{"start":829.718,"end":830.518,"text":"謝謝各位委員 這個真的非常重要我們會列入我們未來的施政的一些考慮"},{"start":860.53,"end":867.658,"text":"開放資料讓AI認識真正的台灣認識真正的人類文化謝謝部長我們一起為文化平權的努力感謝"}]}}}}