{"id":154467,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154467","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd3ce532160c02760227d0a78c1009ae5ed15f5ccb8d26769b334a1e86bb4a3c825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:18:30 - 10:31:22","影片長度":"00:12:52","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「『文化資產保存法』施行40年有餘，修復體系翻新升級」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T10:18:30+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T10:31:22+08:00","duration":772,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":476,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時18分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["李部長遠：陳委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，雖然我的題目沒有含剛剛葛委員的題目，可是我想要echo一下。之前我們跟國科會談TAIDE模型的時候就有拜託國科會，一定要協同文化部協助開發臺灣TAIDE的模型，因為剛剛葛委員所舉的例子，有很大一部分是因為我們人類在下關鍵字的時候，自己就被單一的思維侷限。例如我要叫它產生一個副總統的圖像，我其實可以多給它一點關鍵字，例如女性、40到50歲、亞洲人、膚色等，這是透過我對這件事情的認識，是我去教會那個生成模型。所以這個部分我也要提一下，不是AI本身出了問題，是使用它的人有沒有意識到自己正在用什麼樣的邏輯跟它對話，臺灣TAIDE的模型真的需要文化部給予協助。之前我們跟國科會談過，但我不確定國科會找你們了沒有，後續我們辦公室也會持續透過跨部會的協調，希望在這件事情上讓臺灣TAIDE的模型可以做得更好、做得更多，這個部分請問部長可以簡單回應一下嗎？"],["李部長遠：據我所知，之前文化部有不斷提供給生成式AI，內容有提供……"],["陳委員培瑜：他們需要資料，他們需要繁中的資料。"],["李部長遠：有。"],["陳委員培瑜：我想他們自己在這件事的認知上可能還需要文化部更多的協助，我們辦公室也會積極追蹤，謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：回到我自己的題目。部長，上上禮拜嘉義台積電廠址挖出疑似史前遺蹟，我們當然知道後續他們就先暫時停工了，他們在另外一邊先動工，我想知道目前文化部在這個議題上，協助掌握的進度跟後續規劃可能會往哪個方向發展？"],["李部長遠：這點請文資局局長回答。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝。"],["陳局長濟民：委員，目前各地這種工程開發的案子遇到疑似考古遺址，案件也不少，當然在程序上還是要按照文資法的規範，裡面有一些要先停工，然後做一些調查研究……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個我都知道，我想問就這個case來說，你們有什麼規劃嗎？或者目前你們跟當地，因為他們是委託臺大團隊來協助，臺大團隊這邊有回報任何訊息給你們嗎？過往曾經有一個比較近的案例是後來開成了南科館，因為所蒐集的物件非常多，我不知道目前這邊蒐集的物件狀況跟當地學術團隊合作的狀況，所以只是要確保文資局有掌握相關的進度跟後續的規劃。"],["陳局長濟民：是，相關的進度跟狀況，我們都隨時掌握，目前後續怎麼做是由主管機關，也就是嘉義縣政府，他們已經召開審議會……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，但是他們絕對需要你們的協助喔！"],["陳局長濟民：是，不管是在經費或如果可以的部分，我們都會去協助，還有在諮詢技術上面、專家學者的協調等，我們都可以來進行，我們也都持續關注。"],["陳委員培瑜：請你們要積極協助他們，如果他們有更雄大的企圖心，想要做成博物館或者是相關的科學教育館、史學教育館，我相信文化部應該是有態度可以協助，也有相關經費跟資源，對嗎？"],["陳局長濟民：會。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝局長、謝謝部長。我們來看下一個，我們看到新聞說落實轉型正義，中正紀念堂儀隊要全面撤出，從所謂的在裡面操演改到自由廣場上操演，我自己過往在做轉型正義的時候，我們每一個人當然都有對於轉型正義的想像、認知跟希望達到的目標，我不知道部長您在這個題目上，因為說好是國防部跟文化部進行協調，部長您認為把儀隊操演移到戶外，它之於轉型正義的意義到底是什麼？"],["李部長遠：我想主要是大家對於整個中正紀念堂轉型正義的方式，其實我們文化部已經進行很久了，包括裡面的展示內容、包括臺灣的自由民主過程等等，那是內容的部分，可是在外觀上，大家一直對三軍儀隊在主堂裡面對銅像致敬這件事有不同的意見，認為我們不應該向一個帶有威權的銅像致敬，它的確是一個問題，但是我們又考慮到觀光客很喜歡看這樣的過程，那是不是不應該在銅像前面，而是把它換個地方讓更多人可以看到，而且三軍儀隊本身也不會走得更遠、更麻煩，針對這個怎麼走、怎麼來，我們文化部跟國防部已經試了好多路線，最終我們要考慮的第一個，這些三軍儀隊本身的表演很自然；第二，還是能夠更吸引觀光客；第三，也是考慮民眾的觀感上能夠接受。","基本上，我剛才前面有講到，歷史上留下來的一些威權建築，每一個社會的不同族群對它有兩極的看法，作為一個政府，尤其是文化部在處理這種事情的時候，我們必須非常小心的處理，否則的話，它會變成是一個……簡而言之，我不希望處理之後，變成一個更嚴重撕裂族群的事情，我希望處理得很好以後，它會成為一個歷史的過程，好像翻一本書，我們又翻到新的一頁去了，我們不要再糾結這些兩極的看法。所以我上次為什麼在一上任就講，它的生活方式、它的改造，對於中正紀念堂未來的想像有各種想像，它不一定是現在這個狀況，它有各種可能的改變，這些都列入我們未來的思考。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長，我剛剛保留這麼多時間、用掉我自己的時間讓部長談這件事情，就是我覺得要論述這件事情的整體一致性，或者是整體的全面關照這件事情，部長您剛才舉了幾個族群，一個是觀光客、一個是臺灣一般民眾的觀感，一旦談到觀光，文化部是不是要跟觀光局討論觀光客到底喜歡看什麼？喜歡看儀隊表演，我可以理解，可是儀隊的表演在全世界有各種樣態，如果文化部是為了照顧觀光的需求，甚至也要去想像儀隊內容是不是要改變；如果是為了照顧族群，大家可以一致的對話，站在一個可對話、可討論的平臺上來看待這件事，那又是回到另一個面向要做的事情。","所以對於把儀隊操演移到戶外這件事情，我更關注的是文化部自己整體的論述一定要站得住腳，因為如同部長您說的，過去大家習慣在兩邊的光譜上，極左跟極右大家各自對話、各自發述，但是可能沒有對話的空間，我很感謝部長想要促成對話，而一旦要促成對話，相關的論述要請文化部發展得更完整，才有機會在促成觀光也好，造成大家更多的對話、造成大家更多的討論，大家更團結一致為臺灣，我都覺得這是好事，可是我覺得相關的論述這樣聽起來，文化部還要更加油，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝部長。下一個，前一陣子文化部辦了媒體茶會，裡面有記者談到圖書折扣秩序制，因為我不在那個茶會現場，我只有看到相關的報導，我相信當場的媒體絕對不會只有問這個問題，但是這個問題被好幾個媒體特別拿出來寫。當天次長跟部長都有各自回答，我很感謝部長說這個可能有公平交易的問題，但是我想要說的是，其實圖書統一定價制或是折扣秩序制這件事情，文化部在十年前曾經有過研究，去年也發包做相關的研究，但是在這個研究背後，我想要提出我自己的觀點、有一些問題。我們來說，每次只要提到問卷，就有消費者反映不想要被定價綁住這件事情，但我很好奇，我們的問卷真的有告訴消費者，其實臺灣的圖書出版業者早在十年前，為了應付消費者喜歡買打折書，早早在十幾年前就已經把圖書定價提高了嗎？為了配合消費者，就連在我自己辦的公聽會上，有一個專門賣折扣套書的出版社都在公聽會說臺灣人很愛CP值，我把書定到6,000，然後打折變2,000，消費者買單買得不得了！這個事情大家早就知道，但是在文化部的問卷裡面，我很好奇當我們去問一個消費者喜不喜歡書有打折、你看到書沒有打折有什麼心情，我們根本沒有告訴一般消費者這個背景知識。","再往下看。韓國開始實施圖書定價制之後，他們整體的業績只上升2億，其實並沒有很多，可是他們卻造成另外一個意外的現象，也就是他們圖書出版的書種變多，圖書的市場變得更多元，有大眾的、主流的主題，小眾的、單獨的市場也需要被照顧到，而且圖書出版也被照顧到了。前兩天在中國的直播平臺上，有一個諾貝爾獎得獎者的書，在直播間好像不到4個小時賣出11萬本，可是出版社已經告訴大家不是要透過直播間賣出11萬本書來賺錢，他們其實是賠錢的，也就是打折去賣書這件事情，出版社很痛、很賠錢，可是他想要造成廣告效應。所以我想告訴部長，也想要拜託部長，您來自出版界、來自相關的藝術表演界基層，你一定知道打折這件事情對所有文化產業內容的創作者是多麼大的打擊，絕對不是只有在出版產業，更何況文化部一直想要推廣臺灣的影視音、推廣臺灣的IP，但如果部長有研究，以臺灣最喜歡拿的韓國來舉例，韓國有非常多的IP、所有的content都來自出版產業，而一旦我們用這樣的方法繼續摧殘圖書產業，我真的不知道臺灣自己的作家還有多少人願意投入，讓自己在臺灣成為一個漫畫家、成為一個繪本作家、成為一個小說作家，甚至成為一個報導文學作家。我覺得臺灣未來在這件事情上，我完全看不到可能性，可不可以請部長簡單回應一下？"],["李部長遠：謝謝陳委員。在我過去的經驗中，一個國家的文學作品很重要，出版也非常重要，因為它是所有文化的開始，如果有一個很好的文學作品變成一個很好的IP，變成電影、電視、遊戲、音樂等等，在我那個年代，我是非常鼓勵這樣子的，所以一定要保有臺灣在文學上，包括出版的利基，才能發展出更好的文化產業，這點我非常相信。未來有關這些折扣也好，圖書館的借書也好，這些我們都反反覆覆在研擬了，我希望多聽一點出版界本身的建議，還有剛剛講到消費者喜歡折扣，這些消費行為我們都一併納入討論。"],["陳委員培瑜：我相信有非常多的社會溝通工作落在產業本身，產業本身也很積極在做這件事情，可是從非常多圖書統一定價制的國家市場看來，一旦推行圖書統一定價制的好處是什麼？就是圖書出版的樣態會非常多元，甚至連我們認為有所謂言論管制的中國，他們都有發現這個現象，更何況是韓國、法國、日本等相關國家只要推行圖書定價制，其實書的樣態會非常非常的多元，言論跟文化不再會是單一化，大家不會只看到所謂的主流暢銷書這些事情在市場上，所以我覺得站在臺灣過往曾經有文化多元這個黃金的市場上，我們必須要回來看這件事情，如果現在它不再發生，如同部長你說的，現在這個世代不再發生，到底原因是什麼？到底跟折扣的關係又是什麼？到底跟臺灣人的閱讀、閱聽習慣的改變關係又是什麼？其實非常需要你們的政策配套。","我舉最後一個例子，韓國為了振興所謂出版產業，他們做了政策配套、做了市場調查、做了閱讀推廣、做了數位升級、做了人才培育、做了國際合作、做了文化輸出，而且他們所有的政策都有相關的法源依據作為配套，讓所有政策都有法源依據這件事情非常的重要，但在臺灣，過往我們習慣用一個行政命令或是補助政策就去解決，但一旦沒有法源依據，說實話，部長您走了，下一個部長不見得會支持這件事情，如果我們在意、重視的是文化產業，其實我們需要更多的相關法規，這個部分也要請文化部積極的研議，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：會。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這個部分我們辦公室會再積極跟文化部討論，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝你。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝主席、謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員，部長請回。","我們接下來請林德福委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-18","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林德福","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","陳秀寳","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","范雲","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 742.929, \"end\": 743.129, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 743.129, \"end\": 743.57, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 743.57, \"end\": 743.77, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 743.77, \"end\": 744.07, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 744.07, \"end\": 744.45, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 744.45, \"end\": 745.011, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 745.011, \"end\": 745.371, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 745.371, \"end\": 745.632, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"套\", \"start\": 745.632, \"end\": 745.652, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 746.152, \"end\": 746.332, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 746.332, \"end\": 746.412, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 746.412, \"end\": 746.432, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:07,024\n有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,272 --> 00:00:27,164\n陳委員好部長雖然我的題目沒有含剛剛葛委員的題目可是我想要echo一下之前我們在跟國科會談泰的模型的時候我們就有拜託國科會一定要協同文化部來協助開發台灣的泰的模型因為剛剛葛委員所舉的例子\n\n3\n00:00:32,881 --> 00:00:48,220\n有很大一部分是因為我們人類在下關鍵字的時候我們自己就被自己單一的思維所侷限了例如說我要叫他產生一個副總統的圖像我其實可以多給他一點關鍵字例如說女性40到50歲\n\n4\n00:00:49,882 --> 00:01:09,490\n亞洲人膚色什麼透過我對這件事情的認識是我去教會那個生成模型所以這個部分我也要提一下不是AI本身出了問題是在使用它的人有沒有意識到自己正在用什麼樣的邏輯跟他對話所以台灣的態的模型真的需要文化部給予協助所以之前我們跟國科會談過但我不確定國科會找你們了沒有那我想後續我們辦公室也會持續透過\n\n5\n00:01:16,733 --> 00:01:17,453\n謝謝部長回到我自己的題目\n\n6\n00:01:41,943 --> 00:01:42,783\n這點我想請文字局局長回答好謝謝\n\n7\n00:02:05,519 --> 00:02:31,983\n委員現在目前各地的這種工程開發的案子遇到了疑似考古遺址也是案件也不少是這裡面當然在程序上還是要按照文資法的規範裡面有些要先停工這個我都知道我想問就這個case來說你們有什麼規劃嗎或者是目前你們跟他們當地因為目前他們是委託臺大團隊來協助嘛那臺大團隊這邊會不會回報任何訊息給你們因為過往曾經有一個比較近的案例是後來就開成了南科館\n\n8\n00:02:32,483 --> 00:02:32,623\n陳培瑜議員\n\n9\n00:03:02,649 --> 00:03:04,891\n我們看到新聞說若實轉型正義中正紀念堂一對要撤出全面撤出要從所謂的在裡面操演改到自由廣場上來操演\n\n10\n00:03:27,012 --> 00:03:27,332\n主要是大家一直\n\n11\n00:03:50,570 --> 00:04:06,781\n中正紀念堂的轉型正義的方式其實我們文化部已經進行很久了包括裡面的展示內容包括整個台灣的自由民主的過程等等那是內容的部分可是在外觀上大家一直對三軍儀隊在組團裡面對那個\n\n12\n00:04:11,784 --> 00:04:11,964\n陳培瑜議員\n\n13\n00:04:37,000 --> 00:05:03,699\n其實我們這個怎麼走怎麼來我們已經來去我們文化部跟國安部已經試了好多路線最終最終我們要考慮的一個這些三軍儀隊本身的表演很自然第二還是能夠更吸引觀光客第三也是考慮民眾上的觀感他能接受基本上我剛剛前面有講到說歷史上留下來的一些威權的建築\n\n14\n00:05:05,322 --> 00:05:26,582\n每一個社會都有不同的族群對它兩極的看法作為一個政府尤其是文化部在處理這種事情的時候我們必須非常小心的處理否則的話它會變成是一個簡單言之我不希望處理之後變成是一個撕裂族群的一個更嚴重的事情我希望處理得很好以後\n\n15\n00:05:27,534 --> 00:05:27,574\n陳培瑜議員\n\n16\n00:05:48,228 --> 00:05:52,131\n謝謝部長我剛剛保留了這麼多時間用掉我自己的時間讓部長談這件事情就是我覺得論述這件事情整體的一致性或者是整體的全面關照這件事情部長您剛舉了幾個族群一個是觀光客一個是台灣一般民眾的觀感\n\n17\n00:06:13,749 --> 00:06:28,794\n那一旦談到觀光是不是文化部要跟觀光局去討論觀光客到底喜歡看什麼那喜歡看儀隊表演我可以理解可是儀隊的表演在全世界各種樣態如果文化部是為了照顧觀光的需求甚且要去想像儀隊內容是不是要改變\n\n18\n00:06:29,534 --> 00:06:46,710\n如果是為了照顧族群大家可以一致的對話站在一個可對話的平台上可討論的平台上來看待這個那又回到另外一個面向要去做的事情所以對於把這個一對操演移到戶外這件事情我更關注的就是文化部自己整體的論述一定要站得住腳\n\n19\n00:06:47,290 --> 00:06:47,310\n謝謝部長\n\n20\n00:07:18,488 --> 00:07:44,640\n前一陣子文化部辦了媒體查會裡面就有記者談到了圖書折扣秩序制因為我不在那個查會現場我只有看到相關的報導我相信當場的媒體絕對不會只有問這個問題但是這個問題被好幾個媒體特別拿出來寫那當天呢次長跟部長都有各自回答我很感謝部長你說這可能有公平交易的問題但是我想要說的是其實圖書統一定價制或是折扣秩序制這件事情\n\n21\n00:07:45,680 --> 00:08:01,935\n在文化部過往10年前曾經有過研究去年也發報做相關研究但是這個研究背後我想要提出我自己的觀點有一些問題我們來說每次只要提到問卷然後有消費者反應不想要被定價綁住這件事情但我很好奇\n\n22\n00:08:02,515 --> 00:08:25,410\n我們的論卷真的有告訴消費者其實臺灣的圖書出版業者早在10年前為了應付消費者喜歡買打折書這件事情早早在10幾年前就已經把圖書定價提高了嗎為了配合消費者就連在我自己辦的公聽會上有一個專門賣折扣套書的出版社都在公聽會上說啊這臺灣人很愛CP值啊我把書訂到6000然後打折變2000消費者買單買得不得了\n\n23\n00:08:31,414 --> 00:08:32,816\n韓國開始實施圖書定價制之後其實他們整體的業績只上升了兩億\n\n24\n00:08:51,317 --> 00:09:13,005\n其實並沒有很多可是他們卻造成了另外一個意外的現象就是他們圖書出版的書種變多圖書的市場變得更多元有大眾的主流的主題有小眾的單獨的市場也需要被照顧到而且在圖書出版也被照顧到了前兩天在中國的直播平台上有一個諾貝爾獎的獎他的書在直播間好像不到4個小時賣出了11萬本\n\n25\n00:09:19,787 --> 00:09:25,895\n可是出版社已經告訴大家我們不是要透過直播間賣出11萬本的書來賺錢我們其實是賠錢的也就是說打折去賣書這件事情出版社很痛很賠錢可是他想要造成的是廣告效應\n\n26\n00:09:35,888 --> 00:09:57,685\n所以我想要告訴部長也想要拜託部長您來自出版界來自相關的基層藝術表演界你一定知道打折這件事情對所有的文化產業內容的創作者是多麼大的打擊絕對不是只有在出版產業更何況文化部一直想要推廣台灣的影視音想要推廣台灣的IP但部長如果你研究台灣最喜歡拿的韓國來舉例\n\n27\n00:09:59,286 --> 00:10:22,057\n韓國有非常多的IP所有的content都是來自出版產業而一旦我們用這樣的方法繼續摧殘圖書產業我真的不知道台灣自己的作家還有多少人願意投入讓自己在台灣成為一個漫畫家成為一個繪本作家成為一個小說作家甚至成為一個報導文學作家我覺得在這個台灣未來這件事情上我完全看不到可能性我可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\n\n28\n00:10:24,619 --> 00:10:45,599\n謝謝陳委員在我過去的經驗中一個國家的文學作品很重要然後出版也非常重要因為它是所有文化的開始如果有一個很好的文學作品它變成一個很好的IP變成電影電視遊戲等等音樂等等在我那個年代我是非常鼓勵這樣子的所以\n\n29\n00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:46,560\n陳培瑜議員\n\n30\n00:11:15,309 --> 00:11:22,618\n我相信有非常多社會溝通的工作當然落在產業本身產業本身很積極在做這件事情可是從非常多圖書統一定價制的國家市場看來一旦有推行圖書統一定價制的好處會是什麼就是圖書出版的樣態會非常多元\n\n31\n00:11:31,608 --> 00:11:31,728\n陳培瑜\n\n32\n00:12:01,668 --> 00:12:25,652\n到底跟折扣的關係又是什麼?到底跟台灣人的閱讀閱聽習慣的改變關係又是什麼?其實非常需要你們的政策配套我舉最後一個例子韓國為了振興所謂出版產業他們做了政策配套做了市場調查做了閱讀推廣做了數位升級做了人才培育做了國際合作做了文化輸出而且所有他們的政策都有相關的法源依據作為配套\n\n33\n00:12:26,152 --> 00:12:26,432\n謝謝主席謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n80\t7024\t有請部長\n15272\t27164\t陳委員好部長雖然我的題目沒有含剛剛葛委員的題目可是我想要echo一下之前我們在跟國科會談泰的模型的時候我們就有拜託國科會一定要協同文化部來協助開發台灣的泰的模型因為剛剛葛委員所舉的例子\n32881\t48220\t有很大一部分是因為我們人類在下關鍵字的時候我們自己就被自己單一的思維所侷限了例如說我要叫他產生一個副總統的圖像我其實可以多給他一點關鍵字例如說女性40到50歲\n49882\t69490\t亞洲人膚色什麼透過我對這件事情的認識是我去教會那個生成模型所以這個部分我也要提一下不是AI本身出了問題是在使用它的人有沒有意識到自己正在用什麼樣的邏輯跟他對話所以台灣的態的模型真的需要文化部給予協助所以之前我們跟國科會談過但我不確定國科會找你們了沒有那我想後續我們辦公室也會持續透過\n76733\t77453\t謝謝部長回到我自己的題目\n101943\t102783\t這點我想請文字局局長回答好 謝謝\n125519\t151983\t委員現在目前各地的這種工程開發的案子遇到了疑似考古遺址也是案件也不少是這裡面當然在程序上還是要按照文資法的規範裡面有些要先停工這個我都知道我想問就這個case來說你們有什麼規劃嗎或者是目前你們跟他們當地因為目前他們是委託臺大團隊來協助嘛那臺大團隊這邊會不會回報任何訊息給你們因為過往曾經有一個比較近的案例是後來就開成了南科館\n152483\t152623\t陳培瑜議員\n182649\t184891\t我們看到新聞說若實轉型正義中正紀念堂一對要撤出全面撤出要從所謂的在裡面操演改到自由廣場上來操演\n207012\t207332\t主要是大家一直\n230570\t246781\t中正紀念堂的轉型正義的方式其實我們文化部已經進行很久了包括裡面的展示內容包括整個台灣的自由民主的過程等等那是內容的部分可是在外觀上大家一直對三軍儀隊在組團裡面對那個\n251784\t251964\t陳培瑜議員\n277000\t303699\t其實我們這個怎麼走怎麼來我們已經來去我們文化部跟國安部已經試了好多路線最終最終我們要考慮的一個這些三軍儀隊本身的表演很自然第二還是能夠更吸引觀光客第三也是考慮民眾上的觀感他能接受基本上我剛剛前面有講到說歷史上留下來的一些威權的建築\n305322\t326582\t每一個社會都有不同的族群對它兩極的看法作為一個政府尤其是文化部在處理這種事情的時候我們必須非常小心的處理否則的話它會變成是一個簡單言之我不希望處理之後變成是一個撕裂族群的一個更嚴重的事情我希望處理得很好以後\n327534\t327574\t陳培瑜議員\n348228\t352131\t謝謝部長我剛剛保留了這麼多時間用掉我自己的時間讓部長談這件事情就是我覺得論述這件事情整體的一致性或者是整體的全面關照這件事情部長您剛舉了幾個族群一個是觀光客一個是台灣一般民眾的觀感\n373749\t388794\t那一旦談到觀光是不是文化部要跟觀光局去討論觀光客到底喜歡看什麼那喜歡看儀隊表演我可以理解可是儀隊的表演在全世界各種樣態如果文化部是為了照顧觀光的需求甚且要去想像儀隊內容是不是要改變\n389534\t406710\t如果是為了照顧族群大家可以一致的對話站在一個可對話的平台上可討論的平台上來看待這個那又回到另外一個面向要去做的事情所以對於把這個一對操演移到戶外這件事情我更關注的就是文化部自己整體的論述一定要站得住腳\n407290\t407310\t謝謝部長\n438488\t464640\t前一陣子 文化部辦了媒體查會 裡面就有記者談到了圖書折扣秩序制因為我不在那個查會現場 我只有看到相關的報導我相信當場的媒體 絕對不會只有問這個問題但是這個問題 被好幾個媒體 特別拿出來寫那當天呢 次長跟部長都有各自回答我很感謝部長你說 這可能有公平交易的問題但是我想要說的是 其實圖書統一定價制或是折扣秩序制這件事情\n465680\t481935\t在文化部過往10年前曾經有過研究去年也發報做相關研究但是這個研究背後我想要提出我自己的觀點有一些問題我們來說每次只要提到問卷然後有消費者反應不想要被定價綁住這件事情但我很好奇\n482515\t505410\t我們的論卷真的有告訴消費者其實臺灣的圖書出版業者早在10年前為了應付消費者喜歡買打折書這件事情早早在10幾年前就已經把圖書定價提高了嗎為了配合消費者就連在我自己辦的公聽會上有一個專門賣折扣套書的出版社都在公聽會上說啊這臺灣人很愛CP值啊我把書訂到6000然後打折變2000消費者買單買得不得了\n511414\t512816\t韓國開始實施圖書定價制之後其實他們整體的業績只上升了兩億\n531317\t553005\t其實並沒有很多可是他們卻造成了另外一個意外的現象就是他們圖書出版的書種變多圖書的市場變得更多元有大眾的主流的主題有小眾的單獨的市場也需要被照顧到而且在圖書出版也被照顧到了前兩天在中國的直播平台上有一個諾貝爾獎的獎他的書在直播間好像不到4個小時賣出了11萬本\n559787\t565895\t可是出版社已經告訴大家我們不是要透過直播間賣出11萬本的書來賺錢我們其實是賠錢的也就是說打折去賣書這件事情出版社很痛很賠錢可是他想要造成的是廣告效應\n575888\t597685\t所以我想要告訴部長也想要拜託部長您來自出版界來自相關的基層藝術表演界你一定知道打折這件事情對所有的文化產業內容的創作者是多麼大的打擊絕對不是只有在出版產業更何況文化部一直想要推廣台灣的影視音想要推廣台灣的IP但部長如果你研究台灣最喜歡拿的韓國來舉例\n599286\t622057\t韓國有非常多的IP所有的content都是來自出版產業而一旦我們用這樣的方法繼續摧殘圖書產業我真的不知道台灣自己的作家還有多少人願意投入讓自己在台灣成為一個漫畫家成為一個繪本作家成為一個小說作家甚至成為一個報導文學作家我覺得在這個台灣未來這件事情上我完全看不到可能性我可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\n624619\t645599\t謝謝陳委員在我過去的經驗中一個國家的文學作品很重要然後出版也非常重要因為它是所有文化的開始如果有一個很好的文學作品它變成一個很好的IP變成電影電視遊戲等等音樂等等在我那個年代我是非常鼓勵這樣子的所以\n646440\t646560\t陳培瑜議員\n675309\t682618\t我相信有非常多社會溝通的工作當然落在產業本身產業本身很積極在做這件事情可是從非常多圖書統一定價制的國家市場看來一旦有推行圖書統一定價制的好處會是什麼就是圖書出版的樣態會非常多元\n691608\t691728\t陳培瑜\n721668\t745652\t到底跟折扣的關係又是什麼?到底跟台灣人的閱讀閱聽習慣的改變關係又是什麼?其實非常需要你們的政策配套我舉最後一個例子韓國為了振興所謂出版產業他們做了政策配套做了市場調查做了閱讀推廣做了數位升級做了人才培育做了國際合作做了文化輸出而且所有他們的政策都有相關的法源依據作為配套\n746152\t746432\t謝謝主席 謝謝部長\n","txt":"有請部長\n陳委員好部長雖然我的題目沒有含剛剛葛委員的題目可是我想要echo一下之前我們在跟國科會談泰的模型的時候我們就有拜託國科會一定要協同文化部來協助開發台灣的泰的模型因為剛剛葛委員所舉的例子\n有很大一部分是因為我們人類在下關鍵字的時候我們自己就被自己單一的思維所侷限了例如說我要叫他產生一個副總統的圖像我其實可以多給他一點關鍵字例如說女性40到50歲\n亞洲人膚色什麼透過我對這件事情的認識是我去教會那個生成模型所以這個部分我也要提一下不是AI本身出了問題是在使用它的人有沒有意識到自己正在用什麼樣的邏輯跟他對話所以台灣的態的模型真的需要文化部給予協助所以之前我們跟國科會談過但我不確定國科會找你們了沒有那我想後續我們辦公室也會持續透過\n謝謝部長回到我自己的題目\n這點我想請文字局局長回答好 謝謝\n委員現在目前各地的這種工程開發的案子遇到了疑似考古遺址也是案件也不少是這裡面當然在程序上還是要按照文資法的規範裡面有些要先停工這個我都知道我想問就這個case來說你們有什麼規劃嗎或者是目前你們跟他們當地因為目前他們是委託臺大團隊來協助嘛那臺大團隊這邊會不會回報任何訊息給你們因為過往曾經有一個比較近的案例是後來就開成了南科館\n陳培瑜議員\n我們看到新聞說若實轉型正義中正紀念堂一對要撤出全面撤出要從所謂的在裡面操演改到自由廣場上來操演\n主要是大家一直\n中正紀念堂的轉型正義的方式其實我們文化部已經進行很久了包括裡面的展示內容包括整個台灣的自由民主的過程等等那是內容的部分可是在外觀上大家一直對三軍儀隊在組團裡面對那個\n陳培瑜議員\n其實我們這個怎麼走怎麼來我們已經來去我們文化部跟國安部已經試了好多路線最終最終我們要考慮的一個這些三軍儀隊本身的表演很自然第二還是能夠更吸引觀光客第三也是考慮民眾上的觀感他能接受基本上我剛剛前面有講到說歷史上留下來的一些威權的建築\n每一個社會都有不同的族群對它兩極的看法作為一個政府尤其是文化部在處理這種事情的時候我們必須非常小心的處理否則的話它會變成是一個簡單言之我不希望處理之後變成是一個撕裂族群的一個更嚴重的事情我希望處理得很好以後\n陳培瑜議員\n謝謝部長我剛剛保留了這麼多時間用掉我自己的時間讓部長談這件事情就是我覺得論述這件事情整體的一致性或者是整體的全面關照這件事情部長您剛舉了幾個族群一個是觀光客一個是台灣一般民眾的觀感\n那一旦談到觀光是不是文化部要跟觀光局去討論觀光客到底喜歡看什麼那喜歡看儀隊表演我可以理解可是儀隊的表演在全世界各種樣態如果文化部是為了照顧觀光的需求甚且要去想像儀隊內容是不是要改變\n如果是為了照顧族群大家可以一致的對話站在一個可對話的平台上可討論的平台上來看待這個那又回到另外一個面向要去做的事情所以對於把這個一對操演移到戶外這件事情我更關注的就是文化部自己整體的論述一定要站得住腳\n謝謝部長\n前一陣子 文化部辦了媒體查會 裡面就有記者談到了圖書折扣秩序制因為我不在那個查會現場 我只有看到相關的報導我相信當場的媒體 絕對不會只有問這個問題但是這個問題 被好幾個媒體 特別拿出來寫那當天呢 次長跟部長都有各自回答我很感謝部長你說 這可能有公平交易的問題但是我想要說的是 其實圖書統一定價制或是折扣秩序制這件事情\n在文化部過往10年前曾經有過研究去年也發報做相關研究但是這個研究背後我想要提出我自己的觀點有一些問題我們來說每次只要提到問卷然後有消費者反應不想要被定價綁住這件事情但我很好奇\n我們的論卷真的有告訴消費者其實臺灣的圖書出版業者早在10年前為了應付消費者喜歡買打折書這件事情早早在10幾年前就已經把圖書定價提高了嗎為了配合消費者就連在我自己辦的公聽會上有一個專門賣折扣套書的出版社都在公聽會上說啊這臺灣人很愛CP值啊我把書訂到6000然後打折變2000消費者買單買得不得了\n韓國開始實施圖書定價制之後其實他們整體的業績只上升了兩億\n其實並沒有很多可是他們卻造成了另外一個意外的現象就是他們圖書出版的書種變多圖書的市場變得更多元有大眾的主流的主題有小眾的單獨的市場也需要被照顧到而且在圖書出版也被照顧到了前兩天在中國的直播平台上有一個諾貝爾獎的獎他的書在直播間好像不到4個小時賣出了11萬本\n可是出版社已經告訴大家我們不是要透過直播間賣出11萬本的書來賺錢我們其實是賠錢的也就是說打折去賣書這件事情出版社很痛很賠錢可是他想要造成的是廣告效應\n所以我想要告訴部長也想要拜託部長您來自出版界來自相關的基層藝術表演界你一定知道打折這件事情對所有的文化產業內容的創作者是多麼大的打擊絕對不是只有在出版產業更何況文化部一直想要推廣台灣的影視音想要推廣台灣的IP但部長如果你研究台灣最喜歡拿的韓國來舉例\n韓國有非常多的IP所有的content都是來自出版產業而一旦我們用這樣的方法繼續摧殘圖書產業我真的不知道台灣自己的作家還有多少人願意投入讓自己在台灣成為一個漫畫家成為一個繪本作家成為一個小說作家甚至成為一個報導文學作家我覺得在這個台灣未來這件事情上我完全看不到可能性我可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\n謝謝陳委員在我過去的經驗中一個國家的文學作品很重要然後出版也非常重要因為它是所有文化的開始如果有一個很好的文學作品它變成一個很好的IP變成電影電視遊戲等等音樂等等在我那個年代我是非常鼓勵這樣子的所以\n陳培瑜議員\n我相信有非常多社會溝通的工作當然落在產業本身產業本身很積極在做這件事情可是從非常多圖書統一定價制的國家市場看來一旦有推行圖書統一定價制的好處會是什麼就是圖書出版的樣態會非常多元\n陳培瑜\n到底跟折扣的關係又是什麼?到底跟台灣人的閱讀閱聽習慣的改變關係又是什麼?其實非常需要你們的政策配套我舉最後一個例子韓國為了振興所謂出版產業他們做了政策配套做了市場調查做了閱讀推廣做了數位升級做了人才培育做了國際合作做了文化輸出而且所有他們的政策都有相關的法源依據作為配套\n謝謝主席 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.080 --> 00:07.024\n有請部長\n\n00:15.272 --> 00:27.164\n陳委員好部長雖然我的題目沒有含剛剛葛委員的題目可是我想要echo一下之前我們在跟國科會談泰的模型的時候我們就有拜託國科會一定要協同文化部來協助開發台灣的泰的模型因為剛剛葛委員所舉的例子\n\n00:32.881 --> 00:48.220\n有很大一部分是因為我們人類在下關鍵字的時候我們自己就被自己單一的思維所侷限了例如說我要叫他產生一個副總統的圖像我其實可以多給他一點關鍵字例如說女性40到50歲\n\n00:49.882 --> 01:09.490\n亞洲人膚色什麼透過我對這件事情的認識是我去教會那個生成模型所以這個部分我也要提一下不是AI本身出了問題是在使用它的人有沒有意識到自己正在用什麼樣的邏輯跟他對話所以台灣的態的模型真的需要文化部給予協助所以之前我們跟國科會談過但我不確定國科會找你們了沒有那我想後續我們辦公室也會持續透過\n\n01:16.733 --> 01:17.453\n謝謝部長回到我自己的題目\n\n01:41.943 --> 01:42.783\n這點我想請文字局局長回答好謝謝\n\n02:05.519 --> 02:31.983\n委員現在目前各地的這種工程開發的案子遇到了疑似考古遺址也是案件也不少是這裡面當然在程序上還是要按照文資法的規範裡面有些要先停工這個我都知道我想問就這個case來說你們有什麼規劃嗎或者是目前你們跟他們當地因為目前他們是委託臺大團隊來協助嘛那臺大團隊這邊會不會回報任何訊息給你們因為過往曾經有一個比較近的案例是後來就開成了南科館\n\n02:32.483 --> 02:32.623\n陳培瑜議員\n\n03:02.649 --> 03:04.891\n我們看到新聞說若實轉型正義中正紀念堂一對要撤出全面撤出要從所謂的在裡面操演改到自由廣場上來操演\n\n03:27.012 --> 03:27.332\n主要是大家一直\n\n03:50.570 --> 04:06.781\n中正紀念堂的轉型正義的方式其實我們文化部已經進行很久了包括裡面的展示內容包括整個台灣的自由民主的過程等等那是內容的部分可是在外觀上大家一直對三軍儀隊在組團裡面對那個\n\n04:11.784 --> 04:11.964\n陳培瑜議員\n\n04:37.000 --> 05:03.699\n其實我們這個怎麼走怎麼來我們已經來去我們文化部跟國安部已經試了好多路線最終最終我們要考慮的一個這些三軍儀隊本身的表演很自然第二還是能夠更吸引觀光客第三也是考慮民眾上的觀感他能接受基本上我剛剛前面有講到說歷史上留下來的一些威權的建築\n\n05:05.322 --> 05:26.582\n每一個社會都有不同的族群對它兩極的看法作為一個政府尤其是文化部在處理這種事情的時候我們必須非常小心的處理否則的話它會變成是一個簡單言之我不希望處理之後變成是一個撕裂族群的一個更嚴重的事情我希望處理得很好以後\n\n05:27.534 --> 05:27.574\n陳培瑜議員\n\n05:48.228 --> 05:52.131\n謝謝部長我剛剛保留了這麼多時間用掉我自己的時間讓部長談這件事情就是我覺得論述這件事情整體的一致性或者是整體的全面關照這件事情部長您剛舉了幾個族群一個是觀光客一個是台灣一般民眾的觀感\n\n06:13.749 --> 06:28.794\n那一旦談到觀光是不是文化部要跟觀光局去討論觀光客到底喜歡看什麼那喜歡看儀隊表演我可以理解可是儀隊的表演在全世界各種樣態如果文化部是為了照顧觀光的需求甚且要去想像儀隊內容是不是要改變\n\n06:29.534 --> 06:46.710\n如果是為了照顧族群大家可以一致的對話站在一個可對話的平台上可討論的平台上來看待這個那又回到另外一個面向要去做的事情所以對於把這個一對操演移到戶外這件事情我更關注的就是文化部自己整體的論述一定要站得住腳\n\n06:47.290 --> 06:47.310\n謝謝部長\n\n07:18.488 --> 07:44.640\n前一陣子文化部辦了媒體查會裡面就有記者談到了圖書折扣秩序制因為我不在那個查會現場我只有看到相關的報導我相信當場的媒體絕對不會只有問這個問題但是這個問題被好幾個媒體特別拿出來寫那當天呢次長跟部長都有各自回答我很感謝部長你說這可能有公平交易的問題但是我想要說的是其實圖書統一定價制或是折扣秩序制這件事情\n\n07:45.680 --> 08:01.935\n在文化部過往10年前曾經有過研究去年也發報做相關研究但是這個研究背後我想要提出我自己的觀點有一些問題我們來說每次只要提到問卷然後有消費者反應不想要被定價綁住這件事情但我很好奇\n\n08:02.515 --> 08:25.410\n我們的論卷真的有告訴消費者其實臺灣的圖書出版業者早在10年前為了應付消費者喜歡買打折書這件事情早早在10幾年前就已經把圖書定價提高了嗎為了配合消費者就連在我自己辦的公聽會上有一個專門賣折扣套書的出版社都在公聽會上說啊這臺灣人很愛CP值啊我把書訂到6000然後打折變2000消費者買單買得不得了\n\n08:31.414 --> 08:32.816\n韓國開始實施圖書定價制之後其實他們整體的業績只上升了兩億\n\n08:51.317 --> 09:13.005\n其實並沒有很多可是他們卻造成了另外一個意外的現象就是他們圖書出版的書種變多圖書的市場變得更多元有大眾的主流的主題有小眾的單獨的市場也需要被照顧到而且在圖書出版也被照顧到了前兩天在中國的直播平台上有一個諾貝爾獎的獎他的書在直播間好像不到4個小時賣出了11萬本\n\n09:19.787 --> 09:25.895\n可是出版社已經告訴大家我們不是要透過直播間賣出11萬本的書來賺錢我們其實是賠錢的也就是說打折去賣書這件事情出版社很痛很賠錢可是他想要造成的是廣告效應\n\n09:35.888 --> 09:57.685\n所以我想要告訴部長也想要拜託部長您來自出版界來自相關的基層藝術表演界你一定知道打折這件事情對所有的文化產業內容的創作者是多麼大的打擊絕對不是只有在出版產業更何況文化部一直想要推廣台灣的影視音想要推廣台灣的IP但部長如果你研究台灣最喜歡拿的韓國來舉例\n\n09:59.286 --> 10:22.057\n韓國有非常多的IP所有的content都是來自出版產業而一旦我們用這樣的方法繼續摧殘圖書產業我真的不知道台灣自己的作家還有多少人願意投入讓自己在台灣成為一個漫畫家成為一個繪本作家成為一個小說作家甚至成為一個報導文學作家我覺得在這個台灣未來這件事情上我完全看不到可能性我可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\n\n10:24.619 --> 10:45.599\n謝謝陳委員在我過去的經驗中一個國家的文學作品很重要然後出版也非常重要因為它是所有文化的開始如果有一個很好的文學作品它變成一個很好的IP變成電影電視遊戲等等音樂等等在我那個年代我是非常鼓勵這樣子的所以\n\n10:46.440 --> 10:46.560\n陳培瑜議員\n\n11:15.309 --> 11:22.618\n我相信有非常多社會溝通的工作當然落在產業本身產業本身很積極在做這件事情可是從非常多圖書統一定價制的國家市場看來一旦有推行圖書統一定價制的好處會是什麼就是圖書出版的樣態會非常多元\n\n11:31.608 --> 11:31.728\n陳培瑜\n\n12:01.668 --> 12:25.652\n到底跟折扣的關係又是什麼?到底跟台灣人的閱讀閱聽習慣的改變關係又是什麼?其實非常需要你們的政策配套我舉最後一個例子韓國為了振興所謂出版產業他們做了政策配套做了市場調查做了閱讀推廣做了數位升級做了人才培育做了國際合作做了文化輸出而且所有他們的政策都有相關的法源依據作為配套\n\n12:26.152 --> 12:26.432\n謝謝主席謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.08,"end":7.024,"text":"有請部長"},{"start":15.272,"end":27.164,"text":"陳委員好部長雖然我的題目沒有含剛剛葛委員的題目可是我想要echo一下之前我們在跟國科會談泰的模型的時候我們就有拜託國科會一定要協同文化部來協助開發台灣的泰的模型因為剛剛葛委員所舉的例子"},{"start":32.881,"end":48.22,"text":"有很大一部分是因為我們人類在下關鍵字的時候我們自己就被自己單一的思維所侷限了例如說我要叫他產生一個副總統的圖像我其實可以多給他一點關鍵字例如說女性40到50歲"},{"start":49.882,"end":69.49,"text":"亞洲人膚色什麼透過我對這件事情的認識是我去教會那個生成模型所以這個部分我也要提一下不是AI本身出了問題是在使用它的人有沒有意識到自己正在用什麼樣的邏輯跟他對話所以台灣的態的模型真的需要文化部給予協助所以之前我們跟國科會談過但我不確定國科會找你們了沒有那我想後續我們辦公室也會持續透過"},{"start":76.733,"end":77.453,"text":"謝謝部長回到我自己的題目"},{"start":101.943,"end":102.783,"text":"這點我想請文字局局長回答好 謝謝"},{"start":125.519,"end":151.983,"text":"委員現在目前各地的這種工程開發的案子遇到了疑似考古遺址也是案件也不少是這裡面當然在程序上還是要按照文資法的規範裡面有些要先停工這個我都知道我想問就這個case來說你們有什麼規劃嗎或者是目前你們跟他們當地因為目前他們是委託臺大團隊來協助嘛那臺大團隊這邊會不會回報任何訊息給你們因為過往曾經有一個比較近的案例是後來就開成了南科館"},{"start":152.483,"end":152.623,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":182.649,"end":184.891,"text":"我們看到新聞說若實轉型正義中正紀念堂一對要撤出全面撤出要從所謂的在裡面操演改到自由廣場上來操演"},{"start":207.012,"end":207.332,"text":"主要是大家一直"},{"start":230.57,"end":246.781,"text":"中正紀念堂的轉型正義的方式其實我們文化部已經進行很久了包括裡面的展示內容包括整個台灣的自由民主的過程等等那是內容的部分可是在外觀上大家一直對三軍儀隊在組團裡面對那個"},{"start":251.784,"end":251.964,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":277,"end":303.699,"text":"其實我們這個怎麼走怎麼來我們已經來去我們文化部跟國安部已經試了好多路線最終最終我們要考慮的一個這些三軍儀隊本身的表演很自然第二還是能夠更吸引觀光客第三也是考慮民眾上的觀感他能接受基本上我剛剛前面有講到說歷史上留下來的一些威權的建築"},{"start":305.322,"end":326.582,"text":"每一個社會都有不同的族群對它兩極的看法作為一個政府尤其是文化部在處理這種事情的時候我們必須非常小心的處理否則的話它會變成是一個簡單言之我不希望處理之後變成是一個撕裂族群的一個更嚴重的事情我希望處理得很好以後"},{"start":327.534,"end":327.574,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":348.228,"end":352.131,"text":"謝謝部長我剛剛保留了這麼多時間用掉我自己的時間讓部長談這件事情就是我覺得論述這件事情整體的一致性或者是整體的全面關照這件事情部長您剛舉了幾個族群一個是觀光客一個是台灣一般民眾的觀感"},{"start":373.749,"end":388.794,"text":"那一旦談到觀光是不是文化部要跟觀光局去討論觀光客到底喜歡看什麼那喜歡看儀隊表演我可以理解可是儀隊的表演在全世界各種樣態如果文化部是為了照顧觀光的需求甚且要去想像儀隊內容是不是要改變"},{"start":389.534,"end":406.71,"text":"如果是為了照顧族群大家可以一致的對話站在一個可對話的平台上可討論的平台上來看待這個那又回到另外一個面向要去做的事情所以對於把這個一對操演移到戶外這件事情我更關注的就是文化部自己整體的論述一定要站得住腳"},{"start":407.29,"end":407.31,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":438.488,"end":464.64,"text":"前一陣子 文化部辦了媒體查會 裡面就有記者談到了圖書折扣秩序制因為我不在那個查會現場 我只有看到相關的報導我相信當場的媒體 絕對不會只有問這個問題但是這個問題 被好幾個媒體 特別拿出來寫那當天呢 次長跟部長都有各自回答我很感謝部長你說 這可能有公平交易的問題但是我想要說的是 其實圖書統一定價制或是折扣秩序制這件事情"},{"start":465.68,"end":481.935,"text":"在文化部過往10年前曾經有過研究去年也發報做相關研究但是這個研究背後我想要提出我自己的觀點有一些問題我們來說每次只要提到問卷然後有消費者反應不想要被定價綁住這件事情但我很好奇"},{"start":482.515,"end":505.41,"text":"我們的論卷真的有告訴消費者其實臺灣的圖書出版業者早在10年前為了應付消費者喜歡買打折書這件事情早早在10幾年前就已經把圖書定價提高了嗎為了配合消費者就連在我自己辦的公聽會上有一個專門賣折扣套書的出版社都在公聽會上說啊這臺灣人很愛CP值啊我把書訂到6000然後打折變2000消費者買單買得不得了"},{"start":511.414,"end":512.816,"text":"韓國開始實施圖書定價制之後其實他們整體的業績只上升了兩億"},{"start":531.317,"end":553.005,"text":"其實並沒有很多可是他們卻造成了另外一個意外的現象就是他們圖書出版的書種變多圖書的市場變得更多元有大眾的主流的主題有小眾的單獨的市場也需要被照顧到而且在圖書出版也被照顧到了前兩天在中國的直播平台上有一個諾貝爾獎的獎他的書在直播間好像不到4個小時賣出了11萬本"},{"start":559.787,"end":565.895,"text":"可是出版社已經告訴大家我們不是要透過直播間賣出11萬本的書來賺錢我們其實是賠錢的也就是說打折去賣書這件事情出版社很痛很賠錢可是他想要造成的是廣告效應"},{"start":575.888,"end":597.685,"text":"所以我想要告訴部長也想要拜託部長您來自出版界來自相關的基層藝術表演界你一定知道打折這件事情對所有的文化產業內容的創作者是多麼大的打擊絕對不是只有在出版產業更何況文化部一直想要推廣台灣的影視音想要推廣台灣的IP但部長如果你研究台灣最喜歡拿的韓國來舉例"},{"start":599.286,"end":622.057,"text":"韓國有非常多的IP所有的content都是來自出版產業而一旦我們用這樣的方法繼續摧殘圖書產業我真的不知道台灣自己的作家還有多少人願意投入讓自己在台灣成為一個漫畫家成為一個繪本作家成為一個小說作家甚至成為一個報導文學作家我覺得在這個台灣未來這件事情上我完全看不到可能性我可不可以請部長簡單回應一下"},{"start":624.619,"end":645.599,"text":"謝謝陳委員在我過去的經驗中一個國家的文學作品很重要然後出版也非常重要因為它是所有文化的開始如果有一個很好的文學作品它變成一個很好的IP變成電影電視遊戲等等音樂等等在我那個年代我是非常鼓勵這樣子的所以"},{"start":646.44,"end":646.56,"text":"陳培瑜議員"},{"start":675.309,"end":682.618,"text":"我相信有非常多社會溝通的工作當然落在產業本身產業本身很積極在做這件事情可是從非常多圖書統一定價制的國家市場看來一旦有推行圖書統一定價制的好處會是什麼就是圖書出版的樣態會非常多元"},{"start":691.608,"end":691.728,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":721.668,"end":745.652,"text":"到底跟折扣的關係又是什麼?到底跟台灣人的閱讀閱聽習慣的改變關係又是什麼?其實非常需要你們的政策配套我舉最後一個例子韓國為了振興所謂出版產業他們做了政策配套做了市場調查做了閱讀推廣做了數位升級做了人才培育做了國際合作做了文化輸出而且所有他們的政策都有相關的法源依據作為配套"},{"start":746.152,"end":746.432,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝部長"}]}}}}