{"id":154483,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154483","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd158b243c81fbf748cb3f5941fe168625e8e3eb0bf88d021cf8672e411591f1865ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:46:27 - 10:59:17","影片長度":"00:12:50","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部莊部長翠雲就「如何促進保險業資金擴大參與公共建設，加速建設之推動。」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請中央銀行、國家發展委員會、經濟部、交通部列席備詢。\n二、繼續審查本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。\n【7月3日及4日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T10:46:27+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T10:59:17+08:00","duration":770,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-20"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":603,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時46分）謝謝主席，請金管會彭主委。"],["主席：請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委早。"],["彭主任委員金隆：早。"],["王委員鴻薇：這兩天金融圈有一個大新聞，就是傳出來國泰金控的三太子蔡鎮宇現在並不在金控，但是他一次準備要買兩家銀行：一個京城銀行，一個安泰銀行，當然就引起了金融圈的騷動。我想請問一下，因為他要買這兩家銀行，依法一定要跟金管會申請……"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["王委員鴻薇：目前有沒有任何的接觸？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在我們還沒有收到任何的申請，我們也沒有……"],["王委員鴻薇：你有聽說嗎？在這之前，你有聽說這件事嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們是看到媒體報導知道這件事情……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你是看媒體報導才知道這件事情？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：而到目前為止沒有任何申請？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，還沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。第二件事，蔡鎮宇如果一次要買兩家銀行的話，有沒有違反金管會對於金金分離的政策，以現在來看的話？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告一下，第一個，如果任何一個法人或自然人要取得金控公司的股權達一定比率以上，我們有大股東適格性的規範，它有不同的比率、不同的要求。剛才委員提到的金金分離會落實在我們幾個法規的規定，比如你今天是A公司的負責人，比如你是A公司的董事，你應該是不可以同時……"],["王委員鴻薇：你不能再當另外一家公司……"],["彭主任委員金隆：除非是比如在金控下面有特別法律的排除以外，那就要看未來他是用什麼樣的方式取得這樣的過程才能夠來判定，現在判定其實還言之過早，他用什麼方式取得這個，因為通常……"],["王委員鴻薇：他非常有可能用控股公司的方式，他不至於用個人吧。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這就要看他整個申請案背後是怎麼樣來申請。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，因為時間的關係，所以如果今天蔡鎮宇真的要買兩家銀行，而這兩家銀行目前狀況也都還好，其實我們也是鼓勵合併，但是他有可能會違反我們金金分離相關政策，所以我們在這部分還是會做嚴審，是不是？"],["彭主任委員金隆：金金分離是一個概念，就跟上次在這邊報告過的產金分離也是這個概念，當我真的要落實在法令的時候，它會很具體地成為法規裡面規範的內容。每個人對比如產金分離、金金分離的想法不一樣，但是我們執法單位一定是按照規定。我的意思是，未來先會處理股權的購買，就是大股東適格性的審核；再來第二個，當取得以後，他們各自……"],["王委員鴻薇：他一定要公開吧，他現在不能私下收購？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個就是要看他用什麼樣的形式……"],["王委員鴻薇：可是現在如果訊息出來的話，他應該要做公開的吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：站在主管機關，我們會看到正式的申請文件，然後……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為時間關係，我覺得這件事情是剛剛有一個訊息，現在看起來，第一個就是有關金金分離的政策；第二個，因為他現在其實並不是金控的董監事，某一個程度因為他現在……現在大概他為什麼會那麼有錢，是因為房地產的關係，所以這部分會不會也是你們比較特別考量的地方？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，現在都是一些臆測或報載的內容，其實不管是根據銀行法、大股東適格性的規範，都非常、非常清楚地規定必須陳送各種的資料，這部分我們就按照那個情況才能判斷剛剛講的內容。而且比如我們對資金的來源在……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你們不會因為他現在是以做房地產，然後對這個案子特別地謹慎，會不會？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們的大股東適格性裡面，我記得他必須揭露購買資金的來源。"],["王委員鴻薇：要揭露購買資金來源？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：OK。另外，其實在市場上除了剛才講的最新訊息，另外一個就是新光金的合併問題，這個也已經吵吵嚷嚷了很久。在主委上任之初，我看媒體也有訪問過你，你說你是樂見金控整併的，你也有4個條件樂見金融整併，其實那個時候大概都是以新光金為主。我在這邊要特別提到的，就是您提到的不管是競爭力、法令規範、市場穩定等等，我覺得也都非常合理，但是小股東的權益我認為是非常、非常重要的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然、當然。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為在合併的過程裡面，可能是用洽特定人或者種種的因素，當然我們最不希望看到的是政治性的因素。"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然。"],["王委員鴻薇：說實在，現在台新金的獨董名單裡面也出現了前經濟部部長，但是我們最重視的是應該還是小股東的權益，主委，您同不同意？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我以前有在會裡面跟委員報告過，其實比如我們在金控公司的合併，舉例來說，根據金控法第十八條、第二十六條，都要經過股東大會的決議，才能作成兩個法人的意思表示、決議。股東大會本來就是一個股東民主的場合，這個就是要通過股東大會，這是一個前提要件，這個就是我們常常講的透過這部分照顧到小股東，而不是用少數的股東可以決定這樣的問題……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，這非常重要。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想還會回到法制的結構去。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以小股東權益的部分，希望金管會能夠幫我們把關。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，除了股東，消費者也是。"],["王委員鴻薇：是，沒有錯。另外，主委，最近經濟日報做了一系列專題，有人特別介紹給我看，其中特別談到金管會7月1日成立20年，我當記者的時候，那時候剛成立揭牌，我還去採訪……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，20年了。"],["王委員鴻薇：一晃也就20年了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，好快。"],["王委員鴻薇：真的非常快。不過我現在要給主委看一個其實並不好看、慘不忍睹的數字，也就是臺灣的全球金融中心指數，大家可以看到，這十幾年來我們整個排名是節節下滑，以主委現在所接棒的2024年來看，我們的排名已經掉到73名，如果我們以2010年最好的19名來看的話，你可以看到2024年我們的排名真的是已經下滑到慘不忍睹了。也就是說，經過20年之後，現在的金管會及現在的主委，你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是某一個程度的好處是什麼呢？我不曉得現在是不是谷底，如果你在谷底，進步的空間就會比較大一點；如果你在顛峰的話，你就隨時擔心會不會再下滑。在這裡面特別提到，我們來看，剛才我們特別講到銀行的整併、金控的整併，我也看到他們的專題裡面特別提到，在20年前本國銀行49家，壽險公司28家；但是經過了20年，銀行是38家，壽險21家。所以我們雖然鼓勵銀行整併、金控整併，事實上臺灣有很多是家族性的，他們可能覺得還是要自己做老闆，不願意去跟人家整併，但是在某一個程度上，當規模太小、沒有辦法達到一定規模的時候，競爭力就有限。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以放諸四海，跟鄰國、一些金融中心相較，因為我們的規模太小，所以我們的競爭力也受到了影響。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我想主委應該同意我剛才上面所講的話吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：金管會的努力應該是持續的，這個評比我們有注意到，這個評比其實有很多指標，對於任何一個評比，我們都虛心檢討，但是每個評比都有其特色，比如剛剛委員指正的，我們的銀行家數減少並不多，實際上，我們的基層金融業確實少掉很多。再來它可能忽略了一點，就是我們有金控公司制度的成形，這一點確實改變臺灣金融市場的競爭力，這是很明顯的，只是這個指標裡面並沒有考慮到這一點，任何一個評比我們都虛心接受。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們還是努力啦！好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，誠如剛剛委員講的20年過去了，金管會會迎向下一個20年，我想時機……我們會好好努力。"],["王委員鴻薇：非常好！再來看壽險，我們今天主要是討論壽險資金，我們看到這20年來壽險業的資產規模確實增加非常非常多，與20年前相比，我們的資金規模增加了6.5倍，這也是我們為什麼要討論壽險業資金如何導入參與公共建設。關於這一點我用一點點時間講一下我的看法，老實說，你沒有辦法把牛牽到河邊去要求牠一定要喝水，一定要那個水是好喝的，那個牛是飢渴的，對不對？今天包含財政部、金管會或央行都在，有一點很重要，就是政府是不是能夠對於哪些可以引進我們的壽險業、金融業資金導入的，你要有一個好的產品出來，比如社會住宅。社會住宅是政府的政策，不管是前面的蔡總統或者現在的賴總統，它確實需要大量的資金，我記得當時花敬群次長在這邊還說要針對社宅發綠色債券，結果改朝換代之後，沒有人再提綠色債券了。","如果我們要把資金導入到社宅，那你要有產品出來，如果國發會或行政院希望導入到長照、AI產業、社宅，甚至交通建設，就應該把這些產品拿出來，否則我們只有說你們去投資、你們去投資，他要往哪裡去投資，對不對？你想想看前瞻建設8年8,800億，我們都覺得這真的是一個天文數字，然後被我們罵到臭頭，編列特別預算造成財政負擔。可是大家想想看，如果前瞻預算能夠提高自償率，有穩定的自償率何須再去編列8,800億的特別預算，壽險業的資金有36兆，它拿出一部分絕對可以彌補8,800億，我們不要說8,800億，我們就說一半，你只要有一定的自償率。如果政府只是天天喊我們要把這個資金導入、導入、導入，你沒有產品，而且你推出來的這些建設的自償率都極低，甚至要100年後才能回本，我是老闆我也不敢去投啊！我真的去算過，那些前瞻預算100年後才能回本，都不曉得那個財務規劃是怎麼規劃的。所以我覺得當行政院在討論的時候，你們應該大聲的跟他們說請你們設計出產品，請你們把自償率搞好一點，才能夠導入，否則說難聽一點，這些根本就是賠錢貨的，你要怎麼讓人家去投資呢？以上是我簡短的看法，因為我們未來還會有很多的討論，謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：大會報告，因為股市已經如彭主委一個月前來所講的，今天是2萬3,000點，站穩2萬點，1萬點的時候我有請大家吃雞排、喝珍奶，為了要兌現我的承諾，11時30分的時候我們會準備雞排加珍奶請大家享用，更期盼股市站穩2萬點，未來打拚經濟有亮點，繼續往上拚！","接著我們再三位質詢，到王世堅委員。我們11點半會休息大概25分鐘，接續再繼續質詢。","下一位質詢請李彥秀李委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-20","speakers":["羅明才","林德福"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\"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 63.223, \"end\": 77.359, \"text\": \"跟委員報告一下第一個,如果任何一個法人或治安人他要取得金礦公司的股權達一定比率以上我們有大股東四格性的規範他有不同的比率、不同的要求\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 63.223, \"end\": 63.363, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 63.363, \"end\": 63.644, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 63.644, \"end\": 63.804, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 63.804, \"end\": 63.884, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 63.884, \"end\": 65.486, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 65.486, \"end\": 65.586, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 65.586, \"end\": 65.846, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 65.846, \"end\": 65.966, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 65.966, \"end\": 66.066, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 66.066, \"end\": 66.227, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 66.227, \"end\": 66.367, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 66.367, \"end\": 66.787, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 66.787, \"end\": 66.927, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 66.927, \"end\": 67.068, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 67.068, \"end\": 67.228, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 67.228, \"end\": 67.328, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 67.328, \"end\": 67.508, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 67.508, \"end\": 67.768, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 67.768, \"end\": 67.908, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 67.908, \"end\": 69.51, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 69.51, \"end\": 69.771, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 69.771, \"end\": 70.051, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 70.051, \"end\": 70.371, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"礦\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", 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\"另外那個主委最近其實經濟日報做了一系列專題有人來特別介紹給我看那特別談到金管會7月1號成立20年我想我那時候當記者的時候那時候剛成立接牌我還去採訪那一晃也就20年了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 357.89, \"end\": 358.07, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 358.07, \"end\": 358.61, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 358.61, \"end\": 359.11, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 359.11, \"end\": 359.27, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 359.27, \"end\": 361.011, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 361.011, \"end\": 361.171, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 361.171, \"end\": 361.611, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 361.611, \"end\": 362.111, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 362.111, \"end\": 362.491, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 362.491, \"end\": 362.671, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 362.671, \"end\": 362.831, 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\"start\": 371.133, \"end\": 371.253, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 371.253, \"end\": 371.814, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 371.814, \"end\": 371.954, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 371.954, \"end\": 372.194, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 372.194, \"end\": 372.494, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 372.494, \"end\": 372.634, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 372.634, \"end\": 372.974, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 372.974, \"end\": 373.094, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 373.094, \"end\": 373.274, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 373.274, \"end\": 373.474, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"牌\", \"start\": 373.474, \"end\": 373.694, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 373.694, \"end\": 373.934, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 373.934, \"end\": 375.154, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 375.154, \"end\": 375.274, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 375.274, \"end\": 375.394, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"晃\", \"start\": 375.394, \"end\": 375.555, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 375.555, \"end\": 375.715, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 375.715, \"end\": 375.855, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 375.855, \"end\": 375.935, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 375.935, \"end\": 375.955, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 377.535, \"end\": 377.795, \"text\": \"委員會主席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 377.535, \"end\": 377.675, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 377.675, \"end\": 377.775, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 377.775, \"end\": 377.795, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 403.892, \"end\": 418.368, \"text\": \"調到73名如果我們以當時我們2010年最好的19名來看的話你可以看到2024年我們的排名是真的是已經滑到真的慘不忍睹了啦吼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 403.892, \"end\": 404.713, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 404.713, \"end\": 405.334, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 405.334, \"end\": 405.474, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 405.474, \"end\": 405.894, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 405.894, \"end\": 406.295, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 406.295, \"end\": 407.977, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 407.977, \"end\": 408.998, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 408.998, \"end\": 409.438, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 409.438, \"end\": 409.719, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 409.719, \"end\": 409.959, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 409.959, \"end\": 410.56, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 410.56, \"end\": 411.1, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 411.1, \"end\": 411.32, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 411.32, \"end\": 412.001, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 412.001, \"end\": 412.101, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 412.101, \"end\": 412.121, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 412.121, \"end\": 412.281, \"score\": 0.555}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 412.281, \"end\": 412.422, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 412.422, \"end\": 414.584, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 414.584, \"end\": 414.764, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 414.764, \"end\": 414.944, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 414.944, \"end\": 415.064, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 415.064, \"end\": 415.305, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 415.305, \"end\": 415.845, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 415.845, \"end\": 416.086, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 416.086, \"end\": 416.386, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 416.386, \"end\": 416.586, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 416.586, \"end\": 416.706, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 416.706, \"end\": 416.946, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"滑\", \"start\": 416.946, \"end\": 417.147, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 417.147, \"end\": 417.307, \"score\": 0.571}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 417.307, \"end\": 417.447, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 417.447, \"end\": 417.807, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"慘\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 417.807, \"end\": 418.008, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"忍\", \"start\": 418.008, \"end\": 418.168, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"睹\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 418.168, \"end\": 418.328, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 418.328, \"end\": 418.348, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"吼\", \"start\": 418.348, \"end\": 418.368, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 419.491, \"end\": 434.651, \"text\": \"所以在這個部分也就是說現在的金管會經過20年後現在的金管會還有現在的主委你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的啦但是某一個程度好處是什麼呢因為你我不知道是不是現在是谷底啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 419.491, \"end\": 419.631, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 419.631, \"end\": 419.751, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 419.751, \"end\": 420.172, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 420.172, \"end\": 420.352, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 420.352, \"end\": 420.693, \"score\": 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\"end\": 735.025, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 735.025, \"end\": 735.045, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"償\"}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 735.045, \"end\": 735.065, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"搞\", \"start\": 735.065, \"end\": 735.285, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 735.285, \"end\": 735.425, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 735.425, \"end\": 735.445, \"score\": 0.594}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 744.492, \"end\": 744.632, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 744.632, \"end\": 744.692, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 744.692, \"end\": 744.712, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:00,931\n這兩天金融圈有一個大新聞\n\n2\n00:00:10,885 --> 00:00:36,271\n就是傳出來啊國泰金控的三太子蔡振宇他現在並不在金控但是呢他一次準備要買兩家銀行一個金城銀行一個安泰銀行那當然就引起了金融圈的騷動那我想請問一下因為他要買這兩家銀行一定要跟我們金管會申請議法一定要申請目前有沒有任何的接觸\n\n3\n00:00:37,589 --> 00:01:02,583\n現在的話我們還沒有收到任何的這個申請我們也沒有...你有聽說嗎?在這之前你有聽說這件事嗎?我們是看到媒體報導知道這件事情所以你是看媒體報導才知道這件事情而到目前為止沒有任何申請?還沒有那第二件事齁那麼蔡正宇如果一次要買兩家銀行的話那麼有沒有違反我們金管會對於金金分離的一個政策以現在來看的話?\n\n4\n00:01:03,223 --> 00:01:17,359\n跟委員報告一下第一個,如果任何一個法人或治安人他要取得金礦公司的股權達一定比率以上我們有大股東四格性的規範他有不同的比率、不同的要求\n\n5\n00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:46,433\n那剛才委員提到的金金分離呢會落實在我們幾個法規的規定比如說你今天是A公司的負責人比如說你是A公司的董事你應該是不可以同時除非是比如說在金控下面有特別法律的排除以外那就要看他接下來比如說這個未來他是用什麼樣的方式取得這樣一個過程才能夠來判定現在判定其實還是言之過早他用什麼方式取得這個因為\n\n6\n00:01:47,353 --> 00:02:12,398\n他非常有可能用控股公司的方式,他不至於用個人的方式這就要看他整個的申請案背後是怎麼樣來申請的因為時間的關係所以我們對於如果今天蔡正宇他真的要買兩家銀行而且這兩家銀行目前狀況也都還好那其實我們也是鼓勵合併但是他有可能會違反我們經濟分離相關政策所以我們在這一部分還是會做嚴審,是不是?\n\n7\n00:02:14,238 --> 00:02:39,689\n如果說金金分離它是一個概念就跟上次在這邊有報告就是產金分離也是一個概念當我真的要落實在法令的時候它會有很具體的法規裡面規範的內容每個人對比如說產金分離的想法不一樣金金分離但是我們在執法單位一定是按照規定那我的意思是說它今天如果說是一個未來是先會處理一個叫做股權的購買就是大股東資格性的審核\n\n8\n00:02:41,050 --> 00:03:00,213\n二、當取得了以後,他們各自…但他一定要公開吧?他現在不能私下收購?這個就是要看他用什麼樣方的形式可是如果現在訊息出來的話,他應該要做公開的吧?這個就我們要看到,站在主管間,我們會看到你正式的申請文件\n\n9\n00:03:01,494 --> 00:03:16,011\n因為時間關係我覺得這個事情因為他是剛剛有一個訊息那麼現在看起來第一個就是有關經濟分離的政策那第二個就是因為他現在其實並不是金控的這個董監事那麼某一個程度因為他現在現在大概就是說他為什麼現在那麼有錢是因為是房地產的關係\n\n10\n00:03:21,457 --> 00:03:38,786\n所以這部分會不會也是你們比較會特別考量的地方其實報告委員其實現在都是一些臆測的這樣的一個或是報載的這樣詳細內容因為其實根據我們不管是銀行法、大股東、四格性的規範都非常非常清楚的你必須呈送各種的資料\n\n11\n00:03:39,446 --> 00:03:57,558\n那這部分我們就按照那個情況才能來來來判斷剛剛講的內容而且比如說我們對於那個資金的還原在所以你們不會因為他是現在是已做房地產然後對這個案子特別的謹慎會不會我們那個大股東適格性裡面他必須要我記得他必須揭露他那個購買資金的來源\n\n12\n00:03:59,535 --> 00:03:59,976\n新光晶合併問題\n\n13\n00:04:18,538 --> 00:04:22,641\n主委上任之初我看媒體有訪問過你你也說你是樂見金控診病的你也有四個條件樂見金融診病大概其實那個時候都是以新光金那我在這邊要特別提到的\n\n14\n00:04:34,530 --> 00:04:55,264\n您提到的,不管是競爭力、法律規範等等、市場穩定,我覺得也都非常合理。但是,小股東的權益,我認為是非常非常重要的。因為在合併的過程裡面,它可能是用恰恰特定人,或者它有一些種種的因素,當然我們最不希望看到的是政治性的因素。因為說實在,\n\n15\n00:04:57,425 --> 00:05:15,060\n現在臺新京的這個獨董名單裡面也出現了我們的前經濟部長但是我們最重視的應該還是小股東的權益那麼主委您同不同意當然比如說我剛才以前有在這個會裡面跟委員報告過\n\n16\n00:05:16,181 --> 00:05:35,715\n其實比如說我們在金空公司的合併比如舉例我們金空法18條、26條它都要經過一個股東大會的決議才能做成兩個法人的意思表示決議股東大會本來就是一個就是股東民主的場合這個就是要通過的股東大會這是一個前提要見\n\n17\n00:05:36,856 --> 00:05:46,603\n這個就是我們想說這個透過這個部分照顧到小股東而不是說用一個少數的股東可以決定這個問題我想回到法制的結構去所以這個小股東的權益的部分希望在機管會這邊能夠幫我們把關當然除了股東消費者也是是沒有錯\n\n18\n00:05:57,890 --> 00:06:15,955\n另外那個主委最近其實經濟日報做了一系列專題有人來特別介紹給我看那特別談到金管會7月1號成立20年我想我那時候當記者的時候那時候剛成立接牌我還去採訪那一晃也就20年了\n\n19\n00:06:17,535 --> 00:06:17,795\n委員會主席\n\n20\n00:06:43,892 --> 00:06:58,368\n調到73名如果我們以當時我們2010年最好的19名來看的話你可以看到2024年我們的排名是真的是已經滑到真的慘不忍睹了啦吼\n\n21\n00:06:59,491 --> 00:07:14,651\n所以在這個部分也就是說現在的金管會經過20年後現在的金管會還有現在的主委你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的啦但是某一個程度好處是什麼呢因為你我不知道是不是現在是谷底啦\n\n22\n00:07:15,031 --> 00:07:33,168\n您在谷底您的進步空間就會比較大一點如果您在巔峰的話您就隨時在擔心您會不會再下滑那在這裡面特別提到我們來看就說剛才我們特別講到銀行的整併、金控的整併那麼我也看到他們的專題裡面特別提到在20年前本國銀行49家、受險公司28家\n\n23\n00:07:39,454 --> 00:07:41,075\n但是經過了20年銀行是38家受險21家所以我們雖然在鼓勵這樣的一個銀行診病、金控診病事實上可能以臺灣因為我們很多是家族性的\n\n24\n00:07:54,560 --> 00:08:22,937\n他們可能覺得還是要自己做老闆不願意去跟人家診病但是呢在某一個程度上當你規模太小的時候沒有辦法能夠達到一定規模的時候你的競爭力就有限所以我們放豬四海我們可能跟我們的鄰國跟一些金融中心因為我們的規模太小所以呢我們的競爭力也受到了影響所以我想這個主委應該同意我剛才上面所講的話吧\n\n25\n00:08:24,037 --> 00:08:50,251\n剛才就是說金管會的努力應該是持續的這個評比我們有注意到這個評比其實它很多指標就任何一個評比我們都虛心的去檢討但是每個評比都有它的特色比如說剛剛委員指正就是說我們的銀行加速減少並不多但實際上我們很多的基層金融業確實少掉很多再來就是它可能忽略一點就是我們有個金控公司制度的成型\n\n26\n00:08:50,991 --> 00:09:13,587\n這一點的話確實改變了臺灣金融市場的競爭力我想這是很明顯的只是說他在指標裡面並沒有考慮到這一點我想任何一個這個我們都虛心接受但是呢我們還是努力啦當然當然當然就是承諾該委員講20年過去了那金管會不會迎向下一個20年我想時機我們會好好努力好非常好\n\n27\n00:09:14,207 --> 00:09:14,347\n獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n28\n00:09:34,227 --> 00:09:38,410\n那麼所以這也就是為什麼討論說受險業的資金如何去導入做我們的公共建設那但這一點老師說啦我用一點點時間講一下我的看法其實呢這個你沒有辦法把牛牽到河邊去一定要求他喝水因為你一定要那個水是好喝的\n\n29\n00:09:56,984 --> 00:10:14,938\n這個牛是饑渴的對不對所以在這一點其實我們今天包含財政部、金管會或央行我們有點很重要就是我們的政府是不是能夠去對於有哪一些可以引進我們的受險業、金融業的資金導入的你要有一個好的產品出來\n\n30\n00:10:19,201 --> 00:10:31,752\n比如講我們講說社會住宅社會住宅是政府的政策不管是前面的蔡總統或者現在的賴總統那他確實需要大量的資金我記得當時花敬群次長在這邊還說要針對社宅啊他來發這個綠色債券\n\n31\n00:10:37,597 --> 00:10:37,617\n韓國瑜議員\n\n32\n00:11:00,487 --> 00:11:21,234\nAI產業、社宅甚至交通建設你就應該把這些產品拿出來否則我們就說你們去投資你們去投資他往哪裡去投資啊對不對你想想看我們前瞻建設8年8800億我們都覺得哇真的是一個天文數字啊然後被我們罵到臭頭\n\n33\n00:11:22,774 --> 00:11:22,894\n委員會主席\n\n34\n00:11:40,421 --> 00:11:54,988\n根本他拿出一部分就絕對可以彌補這8800億我們必須說不要8800億我們就一半吧對不對你只要有一定的自償率所以如果我們的政府只是天天喊我們要把這個資金導入導入導入\n\n35\n00:11:56,169 --> 00:12:15,445\n那你沒有產品啊而且你的自償率你推出來的這些建設自償率都極低甚至呢要100年後才能回本請問一下哪一個我是老闆我也不敢去投啊我真的去算過那些前瞻預算100年後才能回本呢都不曉得那個財務規劃是怎麼規劃的所以我覺得這一點當我們去討論到行政院討論我覺得你們應該大聲的跟他們說請你們設計出產品請你們把這自償率搞好一點\n\n36\n00:12:24,492 --> 00:12:24,712\n委員會主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t931\t這兩天金融圈有一個大新聞\n10885\t36271\t就是傳出來啊國泰金控的三太子蔡振宇他現在並不在金控但是呢他一次準備要買兩家銀行一個金城銀行一個安泰銀行那當然就引起了金融圈的騷動那我想請問一下因為他要買這兩家銀行一定要跟我們金管會申請議法一定要申請目前有沒有任何的接觸\n37589\t62583\t現在的話我們還沒有收到任何的這個申請我們也沒有...你有聽說嗎?在這之前你有聽說這件事嗎?我們是看到媒體報導知道這件事情所以你是看媒體報導才知道這件事情而到目前為止沒有任何申請?還沒有那第二件事齁那麼蔡正宇如果一次要買兩家銀行的話那麼有沒有違反我們金管會對於金金分離的一個政策以現在來看的話?\n63223\t77359\t跟委員報告一下第一個,如果任何一個法人或治安人他要取得金礦公司的股權達一定比率以上我們有大股東四格性的規範他有不同的比率、不同的要求\n78160\t106433\t那剛才委員提到的金金分離呢會落實在我們幾個法規的規定比如說你今天是A公司的負責人比如說你是A公司的董事你應該是不可以同時除非是比如說在金控下面有特別法律的排除以外那就要看他接下來比如說這個未來他是用什麼樣的方式取得這樣一個過程才能夠來判定現在判定其實還是言之過早他用什麼方式取得這個因為\n107353\t132398\t他非常有可能用控股公司的方式,他不至於用個人的方式這就要看他整個的申請案背後是怎麼樣來申請的因為時間的關係所以我們對於如果今天蔡正宇他真的要買兩家銀行而且這兩家銀行目前狀況也都還好那其實我們也是鼓勵合併但是他有可能會違反我們經濟分離相關政策所以我們在這一部分還是會做嚴審,是不是?\n134238\t159689\t如果說金金分離它是一個概念就跟上次在這邊有報告就是產金分離也是一個概念當我真的要落實在法令的時候它會有很具體的法規裡面規範的內容每個人對比如說產金分離的想法不一樣金金分離但是我們在執法單位一定是按照規定那我的意思是說它今天如果說是一個未來是先會處理一個叫做股權的購買就是大股東資格性的審核\n161050\t180213\t二、當取得了以後,他們各自…但他一定要公開吧?他現在不能私下收購?這個就是要看他用什麼樣方的形式可是如果現在訊息出來的話,他應該要做公開的吧?這個就我們要看到,站在主管間,我們會看到你正式的申請文件\n181494\t196011\t因為時間關係我覺得這個事情因為他是剛剛有一個訊息那麼現在看起來第一個就是有關經濟分離的政策那第二個就是因為他現在其實並不是金控的這個董監事那麼某一個程度因為他現在現在大概就是說他為什麼現在那麼有錢是因為是房地產的關係\n201457\t218786\t所以這部分會不會也是你們比較會特別考量的地方其實報告委員其實現在都是一些臆測的這樣的一個或是報載的這樣詳細內容因為其實根據我們不管是銀行法、大股東、四格性的規範都非常非常清楚的你必須呈送各種的資料\n219446\t237558\t那這部分我們就按照那個情況才能來來來判斷剛剛講的內容而且比如說我們對於那個資金的還原在所以你們不會因為他是現在是已做房地產然後對這個案子特別的謹慎會不會我們那個大股東適格性裡面他必須要我記得他必須揭露他那個購買資金的來源\n239535\t239976\t新光晶合併問題\n258538\t262641\t主委上任之初我看媒體有訪問過你你也說你是樂見金控診病的你也有四個條件樂見金融診病大概其實那個時候都是以新光金那我在這邊要特別提到的\n274530\t295264\t您提到的,不管是競爭力、法律規範等等、市場穩定,我覺得也都非常合理。但是,小股東的權益,我認為是非常非常重要的。因為在合併的過程裡面,它可能是用恰恰特定人,或者它有一些種種的因素,當然我們最不希望看到的是政治性的因素。因為說實在,\n297425\t315060\t現在臺新京的這個獨董名單裡面也出現了我們的前經濟部長但是我們最重視的應該還是小股東的權益那麼主委您同不同意當然比如說我剛才以前有在這個會裡面跟委員報告過\n316181\t335715\t其實比如說我們在金空公司的合併比如舉例我們金空法18條、26條它都要經過一個股東大會的決議才能做成兩個法人的意思表示決議股東大會本來就是一個就是股東民主的場合這個就是要通過的股東大會這是一個前提要見\n336856\t346603\t這個就是我們想說這個透過這個部分照顧到小股東而不是說用一個少數的股東可以決定這個問題我想回到法制的結構去所以這個小股東的權益的部分希望在機管會這邊能夠幫我們把關當然除了股東消費者也是是沒有錯\n357890\t375955\t另外那個主委最近其實經濟日報做了一系列專題有人來特別介紹給我看那特別談到金管會7月1號成立20年我想我那時候當記者的時候那時候剛成立接牌我還去採訪那一晃也就20年了\n377535\t377795\t委員會主席\n403892\t418368\t調到73名如果我們以當時我們2010年最好的19名來看的話你可以看到2024年我們的排名是真的是已經滑到真的慘不忍睹了啦吼\n419491\t434651\t所以在這個部分也就是說現在的金管會經過20年後現在的金管會還有現在的主委你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的啦但是某一個程度好處是什麼呢因為你我不知道是不是現在是谷底啦\n435031\t453168\t您在谷底您的進步空間就會比較大一點如果您在巔峰的話您就隨時在擔心您會不會再下滑那在這裡面特別提到我們來看就說剛才我們特別講到銀行的整併、金控的整併那麼我也看到他們的專題裡面特別提到在20年前本國銀行49家、受險公司28家\n459454\t461075\t但是經過了20年銀行是38家受險21家所以我們雖然在鼓勵這樣的一個銀行診病、金控診病事實上可能以臺灣因為我們很多是家族性的\n474560\t502937\t他們可能覺得還是要自己做老闆不願意去跟人家診病但是呢在某一個程度上當你規模太小的時候沒有辦法能夠達到一定規模的時候你的競爭力就有限所以我們放豬四海我們可能跟我們的鄰國跟一些金融中心因為我們的規模太小所以呢我們的競爭力也受到了影響所以我想這個主委應該同意我剛才上面所講的話吧\n504037\t530251\t剛才就是說金管會的努力應該是持續的這個評比我們有注意到這個評比其實它很多指標就任何一個評比我們都虛心的去檢討但是每個評比都有它的特色比如說剛剛委員指正就是說我們的銀行加速減少並不多但實際上我們很多的基層金融業確實少掉很多再來就是它可能忽略一點就是我們有個金控公司制度的成型\n530991\t553587\t這一點的話確實改變了臺灣金融市場的競爭力我想這是很明顯的只是說他在指標裡面並沒有考慮到這一點我想任何一個這個我們都虛心接受但是呢我們還是努力啦當然當然當然就是承諾該委員講20年過去了那金管會不會迎向下一個20年我想時機我們會好好努力好非常好\n554207\t554347\t獲得獲得獲得獲得\n574227\t578410\t那麼所以這也就是為什麼討論說受險業的資金如何去導入做我們的公共建設那但這一點老師說啦我用一點點時間講一下我的看法其實呢這個你沒有辦法把牛牽到河邊去一定要求他喝水因為你一定要那個水是好喝的\n596984\t614938\t這個牛是饑渴的對不對所以在這一點其實我們今天包含財政部、金管會或央行我們有點很重要就是我們的政府是不是能夠去對於有哪一些可以引進我們的受險業、金融業的資金導入的你要有一個好的產品出來\n619201\t631752\t比如講我們講說社會住宅社會住宅是政府的政策不管是前面的蔡總統或者現在的賴總統那他確實需要大量的資金我記得當時花敬群次長在這邊還說要針對社宅啊他來發這個綠色債券\n637597\t637617\t韓國瑜議員\n660487\t681234\tAI產業、社宅甚至交通建設你就應該把這些產品拿出來否則我們就說你們去投資你們去投資他往哪裡去投資啊 對不對你想想看我們前瞻建設8年8800億我們都覺得哇真的是一個天文數字啊然後被我們罵到臭頭\n682774\t682894\t委員會主席\n700421\t714988\t根本他拿出一部分就絕對可以彌補這8800億我們必須說不要8800億我們就一半吧對不對你只要有一定的自償率所以如果我們的政府只是天天喊我們要把這個資金導入導入導入\n716169\t735445\t那你沒有產品啊而且你的自償率你推出來的這些建設自償率都極低甚至呢要100年後才能回本請問一下哪一個我是老闆我也不敢去投啊我真的去算過那些前瞻預算100年後才能回本呢都不曉得那個財務規劃是怎麼規劃的所以我覺得這一點當我們去討論到行政院討論我覺得你們應該大聲的跟他們說請你們設計出產品請你們把這自償率搞好一點\n744492\t744712\t委員會主席\n","txt":"這兩天金融圈有一個大新聞\n就是傳出來啊國泰金控的三太子蔡振宇他現在並不在金控但是呢他一次準備要買兩家銀行一個金城銀行一個安泰銀行那當然就引起了金融圈的騷動那我想請問一下因為他要買這兩家銀行一定要跟我們金管會申請議法一定要申請目前有沒有任何的接觸\n現在的話我們還沒有收到任何的這個申請我們也沒有...你有聽說嗎?在這之前你有聽說這件事嗎?我們是看到媒體報導知道這件事情所以你是看媒體報導才知道這件事情而到目前為止沒有任何申請?還沒有那第二件事齁那麼蔡正宇如果一次要買兩家銀行的話那麼有沒有違反我們金管會對於金金分離的一個政策以現在來看的話?\n跟委員報告一下第一個,如果任何一個法人或治安人他要取得金礦公司的股權達一定比率以上我們有大股東四格性的規範他有不同的比率、不同的要求\n那剛才委員提到的金金分離呢會落實在我們幾個法規的規定比如說你今天是A公司的負責人比如說你是A公司的董事你應該是不可以同時除非是比如說在金控下面有特別法律的排除以外那就要看他接下來比如說這個未來他是用什麼樣的方式取得這樣一個過程才能夠來判定現在判定其實還是言之過早他用什麼方式取得這個因為\n他非常有可能用控股公司的方式,他不至於用個人的方式這就要看他整個的申請案背後是怎麼樣來申請的因為時間的關係所以我們對於如果今天蔡正宇他真的要買兩家銀行而且這兩家銀行目前狀況也都還好那其實我們也是鼓勵合併但是他有可能會違反我們經濟分離相關政策所以我們在這一部分還是會做嚴審,是不是?\n如果說金金分離它是一個概念就跟上次在這邊有報告就是產金分離也是一個概念當我真的要落實在法令的時候它會有很具體的法規裡面規範的內容每個人對比如說產金分離的想法不一樣金金分離但是我們在執法單位一定是按照規定那我的意思是說它今天如果說是一個未來是先會處理一個叫做股權的購買就是大股東資格性的審核\n二、當取得了以後,他們各自…但他一定要公開吧?他現在不能私下收購?這個就是要看他用什麼樣方的形式可是如果現在訊息出來的話,他應該要做公開的吧?這個就我們要看到,站在主管間,我們會看到你正式的申請文件\n因為時間關係我覺得這個事情因為他是剛剛有一個訊息那麼現在看起來第一個就是有關經濟分離的政策那第二個就是因為他現在其實並不是金控的這個董監事那麼某一個程度因為他現在現在大概就是說他為什麼現在那麼有錢是因為是房地產的關係\n所以這部分會不會也是你們比較會特別考量的地方其實報告委員其實現在都是一些臆測的這樣的一個或是報載的這樣詳細內容因為其實根據我們不管是銀行法、大股東、四格性的規範都非常非常清楚的你必須呈送各種的資料\n那這部分我們就按照那個情況才能來來來判斷剛剛講的內容而且比如說我們對於那個資金的還原在所以你們不會因為他是現在是已做房地產然後對這個案子特別的謹慎會不會我們那個大股東適格性裡面他必須要我記得他必須揭露他那個購買資金的來源\n新光晶合併問題\n主委上任之初我看媒體有訪問過你你也說你是樂見金控診病的你也有四個條件樂見金融診病大概其實那個時候都是以新光金那我在這邊要特別提到的\n您提到的,不管是競爭力、法律規範等等、市場穩定,我覺得也都非常合理。但是,小股東的權益,我認為是非常非常重要的。因為在合併的過程裡面,它可能是用恰恰特定人,或者它有一些種種的因素,當然我們最不希望看到的是政治性的因素。因為說實在,\n現在臺新京的這個獨董名單裡面也出現了我們的前經濟部長但是我們最重視的應該還是小股東的權益那麼主委您同不同意當然比如說我剛才以前有在這個會裡面跟委員報告過\n其實比如說我們在金空公司的合併比如舉例我們金空法18條、26條它都要經過一個股東大會的決議才能做成兩個法人的意思表示決議股東大會本來就是一個就是股東民主的場合這個就是要通過的股東大會這是一個前提要見\n這個就是我們想說這個透過這個部分照顧到小股東而不是說用一個少數的股東可以決定這個問題我想回到法制的結構去所以這個小股東的權益的部分希望在機管會這邊能夠幫我們把關當然除了股東消費者也是是沒有錯\n另外那個主委最近其實經濟日報做了一系列專題有人來特別介紹給我看那特別談到金管會7月1號成立20年我想我那時候當記者的時候那時候剛成立接牌我還去採訪那一晃也就20年了\n委員會主席\n調到73名如果我們以當時我們2010年最好的19名來看的話你可以看到2024年我們的排名是真的是已經滑到真的慘不忍睹了啦吼\n所以在這個部分也就是說現在的金管會經過20年後現在的金管會還有現在的主委你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的啦但是某一個程度好處是什麼呢因為你我不知道是不是現在是谷底啦\n您在谷底您的進步空間就會比較大一點如果您在巔峰的話您就隨時在擔心您會不會再下滑那在這裡面特別提到我們來看就說剛才我們特別講到銀行的整併、金控的整併那麼我也看到他們的專題裡面特別提到在20年前本國銀行49家、受險公司28家\n但是經過了20年銀行是38家受險21家所以我們雖然在鼓勵這樣的一個銀行診病、金控診病事實上可能以臺灣因為我們很多是家族性的\n他們可能覺得還是要自己做老闆不願意去跟人家診病但是呢在某一個程度上當你規模太小的時候沒有辦法能夠達到一定規模的時候你的競爭力就有限所以我們放豬四海我們可能跟我們的鄰國跟一些金融中心因為我們的規模太小所以呢我們的競爭力也受到了影響所以我想這個主委應該同意我剛才上面所講的話吧\n剛才就是說金管會的努力應該是持續的這個評比我們有注意到這個評比其實它很多指標就任何一個評比我們都虛心的去檢討但是每個評比都有它的特色比如說剛剛委員指正就是說我們的銀行加速減少並不多但實際上我們很多的基層金融業確實少掉很多再來就是它可能忽略一點就是我們有個金控公司制度的成型\n這一點的話確實改變了臺灣金融市場的競爭力我想這是很明顯的只是說他在指標裡面並沒有考慮到這一點我想任何一個這個我們都虛心接受但是呢我們還是努力啦當然當然當然就是承諾該委員講20年過去了那金管會不會迎向下一個20年我想時機我們會好好努力好非常好\n獲得獲得獲得獲得\n那麼所以這也就是為什麼討論說受險業的資金如何去導入做我們的公共建設那但這一點老師說啦我用一點點時間講一下我的看法其實呢這個你沒有辦法把牛牽到河邊去一定要求他喝水因為你一定要那個水是好喝的\n這個牛是饑渴的對不對所以在這一點其實我們今天包含財政部、金管會或央行我們有點很重要就是我們的政府是不是能夠去對於有哪一些可以引進我們的受險業、金融業的資金導入的你要有一個好的產品出來\n比如講我們講說社會住宅社會住宅是政府的政策不管是前面的蔡總統或者現在的賴總統那他確實需要大量的資金我記得當時花敬群次長在這邊還說要針對社宅啊他來發這個綠色債券\n韓國瑜議員\nAI產業、社宅甚至交通建設你就應該把這些產品拿出來否則我們就說你們去投資你們去投資他往哪裡去投資啊 對不對你想想看我們前瞻建設8年8800億我們都覺得哇真的是一個天文數字啊然後被我們罵到臭頭\n委員會主席\n根本他拿出一部分就絕對可以彌補這8800億我們必須說不要8800億我們就一半吧對不對你只要有一定的自償率所以如果我們的政府只是天天喊我們要把這個資金導入導入導入\n那你沒有產品啊而且你的自償率你推出來的這些建設自償率都極低甚至呢要100年後才能回本請問一下哪一個我是老闆我也不敢去投啊我真的去算過那些前瞻預算100年後才能回本呢都不曉得那個財務規劃是怎麼規劃的所以我覺得這一點當我們去討論到行政院討論我覺得你們應該大聲的跟他們說請你們設計出產品請你們把這自償率搞好一點\n委員會主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:00.931\n這兩天金融圈有一個大新聞\n\n00:10.885 --> 00:36.271\n就是傳出來啊國泰金控的三太子蔡振宇他現在並不在金控但是呢他一次準備要買兩家銀行一個金城銀行一個安泰銀行那當然就引起了金融圈的騷動那我想請問一下因為他要買這兩家銀行一定要跟我們金管會申請議法一定要申請目前有沒有任何的接觸\n\n00:37.589 --> 01:02.583\n現在的話我們還沒有收到任何的這個申請我們也沒有...你有聽說嗎?在這之前你有聽說這件事嗎?我們是看到媒體報導知道這件事情所以你是看媒體報導才知道這件事情而到目前為止沒有任何申請?還沒有那第二件事齁那麼蔡正宇如果一次要買兩家銀行的話那麼有沒有違反我們金管會對於金金分離的一個政策以現在來看的話?\n\n01:03.223 --> 01:17.359\n跟委員報告一下第一個,如果任何一個法人或治安人他要取得金礦公司的股權達一定比率以上我們有大股東四格性的規範他有不同的比率、不同的要求\n\n01:18.160 --> 01:46.433\n那剛才委員提到的金金分離呢會落實在我們幾個法規的規定比如說你今天是A公司的負責人比如說你是A公司的董事你應該是不可以同時除非是比如說在金控下面有特別法律的排除以外那就要看他接下來比如說這個未來他是用什麼樣的方式取得這樣一個過程才能夠來判定現在判定其實還是言之過早他用什麼方式取得這個因為\n\n01:47.353 --> 02:12.398\n他非常有可能用控股公司的方式,他不至於用個人的方式這就要看他整個的申請案背後是怎麼樣來申請的因為時間的關係所以我們對於如果今天蔡正宇他真的要買兩家銀行而且這兩家銀行目前狀況也都還好那其實我們也是鼓勵合併但是他有可能會違反我們經濟分離相關政策所以我們在這一部分還是會做嚴審,是不是?\n\n02:14.238 --> 02:39.689\n如果說金金分離它是一個概念就跟上次在這邊有報告就是產金分離也是一個概念當我真的要落實在法令的時候它會有很具體的法規裡面規範的內容每個人對比如說產金分離的想法不一樣金金分離但是我們在執法單位一定是按照規定那我的意思是說它今天如果說是一個未來是先會處理一個叫做股權的購買就是大股東資格性的審核\n\n02:41.050 --> 03:00.213\n二、當取得了以後,他們各自…但他一定要公開吧?他現在不能私下收購?這個就是要看他用什麼樣方的形式可是如果現在訊息出來的話,他應該要做公開的吧?這個就我們要看到,站在主管間,我們會看到你正式的申請文件\n\n03:01.494 --> 03:16.011\n因為時間關係我覺得這個事情因為他是剛剛有一個訊息那麼現在看起來第一個就是有關經濟分離的政策那第二個就是因為他現在其實並不是金控的這個董監事那麼某一個程度因為他現在現在大概就是說他為什麼現在那麼有錢是因為是房地產的關係\n\n03:21.457 --> 03:38.786\n所以這部分會不會也是你們比較會特別考量的地方其實報告委員其實現在都是一些臆測的這樣的一個或是報載的這樣詳細內容因為其實根據我們不管是銀行法、大股東、四格性的規範都非常非常清楚的你必須呈送各種的資料\n\n03:39.446 --> 03:57.558\n那這部分我們就按照那個情況才能來來來判斷剛剛講的內容而且比如說我們對於那個資金的還原在所以你們不會因為他是現在是已做房地產然後對這個案子特別的謹慎會不會我們那個大股東適格性裡面他必須要我記得他必須揭露他那個購買資金的來源\n\n03:59.535 --> 03:59.976\n新光晶合併問題\n\n04:18.538 --> 04:22.641\n主委上任之初我看媒體有訪問過你你也說你是樂見金控診病的你也有四個條件樂見金融診病大概其實那個時候都是以新光金那我在這邊要特別提到的\n\n04:34.530 --> 04:55.264\n您提到的,不管是競爭力、法律規範等等、市場穩定,我覺得也都非常合理。但是,小股東的權益,我認為是非常非常重要的。因為在合併的過程裡面,它可能是用恰恰特定人,或者它有一些種種的因素,當然我們最不希望看到的是政治性的因素。因為說實在,\n\n04:57.425 --> 05:15.060\n現在臺新京的這個獨董名單裡面也出現了我們的前經濟部長但是我們最重視的應該還是小股東的權益那麼主委您同不同意當然比如說我剛才以前有在這個會裡面跟委員報告過\n\n05:16.181 --> 05:35.715\n其實比如說我們在金空公司的合併比如舉例我們金空法18條、26條它都要經過一個股東大會的決議才能做成兩個法人的意思表示決議股東大會本來就是一個就是股東民主的場合這個就是要通過的股東大會這是一個前提要見\n\n05:36.856 --> 05:46.603\n這個就是我們想說這個透過這個部分照顧到小股東而不是說用一個少數的股東可以決定這個問題我想回到法制的結構去所以這個小股東的權益的部分希望在機管會這邊能夠幫我們把關當然除了股東消費者也是是沒有錯\n\n05:57.890 --> 06:15.955\n另外那個主委最近其實經濟日報做了一系列專題有人來特別介紹給我看那特別談到金管會7月1號成立20年我想我那時候當記者的時候那時候剛成立接牌我還去採訪那一晃也就20年了\n\n06:17.535 --> 06:17.795\n委員會主席\n\n06:43.892 --> 06:58.368\n調到73名如果我們以當時我們2010年最好的19名來看的話你可以看到2024年我們的排名是真的是已經滑到真的慘不忍睹了啦吼\n\n06:59.491 --> 07:14.651\n所以在這個部分也就是說現在的金管會經過20年後現在的金管會還有現在的主委你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的啦但是某一個程度好處是什麼呢因為你我不知道是不是現在是谷底啦\n\n07:15.031 --> 07:33.168\n您在谷底您的進步空間就會比較大一點如果您在巔峰的話您就隨時在擔心您會不會再下滑那在這裡面特別提到我們來看就說剛才我們特別講到銀行的整併、金控的整併那麼我也看到他們的專題裡面特別提到在20年前本國銀行49家、受險公司28家\n\n07:39.454 --> 07:41.075\n但是經過了20年銀行是38家受險21家所以我們雖然在鼓勵這樣的一個銀行診病、金控診病事實上可能以臺灣因為我們很多是家族性的\n\n07:54.560 --> 08:22.937\n他們可能覺得還是要自己做老闆不願意去跟人家診病但是呢在某一個程度上當你規模太小的時候沒有辦法能夠達到一定規模的時候你的競爭力就有限所以我們放豬四海我們可能跟我們的鄰國跟一些金融中心因為我們的規模太小所以呢我們的競爭力也受到了影響所以我想這個主委應該同意我剛才上面所講的話吧\n\n08:24.037 --> 08:50.251\n剛才就是說金管會的努力應該是持續的這個評比我們有注意到這個評比其實它很多指標就任何一個評比我們都虛心的去檢討但是每個評比都有它的特色比如說剛剛委員指正就是說我們的銀行加速減少並不多但實際上我們很多的基層金融業確實少掉很多再來就是它可能忽略一點就是我們有個金控公司制度的成型\n\n08:50.991 --> 09:13.587\n這一點的話確實改變了臺灣金融市場的競爭力我想這是很明顯的只是說他在指標裡面並沒有考慮到這一點我想任何一個這個我們都虛心接受但是呢我們還是努力啦當然當然當然就是承諾該委員講20年過去了那金管會不會迎向下一個20年我想時機我們會好好努力好非常好\n\n09:14.207 --> 09:14.347\n獲得獲得獲得獲得\n\n09:34.227 --> 09:38.410\n那麼所以這也就是為什麼討論說受險業的資金如何去導入做我們的公共建設那但這一點老師說啦我用一點點時間講一下我的看法其實呢這個你沒有辦法把牛牽到河邊去一定要求他喝水因為你一定要那個水是好喝的\n\n09:56.984 --> 10:14.938\n這個牛是饑渴的對不對所以在這一點其實我們今天包含財政部、金管會或央行我們有點很重要就是我們的政府是不是能夠去對於有哪一些可以引進我們的受險業、金融業的資金導入的你要有一個好的產品出來\n\n10:19.201 --> 10:31.752\n比如講我們講說社會住宅社會住宅是政府的政策不管是前面的蔡總統或者現在的賴總統那他確實需要大量的資金我記得當時花敬群次長在這邊還說要針對社宅啊他來發這個綠色債券\n\n10:37.597 --> 10:37.617\n韓國瑜議員\n\n11:00.487 --> 11:21.234\nAI產業、社宅甚至交通建設你就應該把這些產品拿出來否則我們就說你們去投資你們去投資他往哪裡去投資啊對不對你想想看我們前瞻建設8年8800億我們都覺得哇真的是一個天文數字啊然後被我們罵到臭頭\n\n11:22.774 --> 11:22.894\n委員會主席\n\n11:40.421 --> 11:54.988\n根本他拿出一部分就絕對可以彌補這8800億我們必須說不要8800億我們就一半吧對不對你只要有一定的自償率所以如果我們的政府只是天天喊我們要把這個資金導入導入導入\n\n11:56.169 --> 12:15.445\n那你沒有產品啊而且你的自償率你推出來的這些建設自償率都極低甚至呢要100年後才能回本請問一下哪一個我是老闆我也不敢去投啊我真的去算過那些前瞻預算100年後才能回本呢都不曉得那個財務規劃是怎麼規劃的所以我覺得這一點當我們去討論到行政院討論我覺得你們應該大聲的跟他們說請你們設計出產品請你們把這自償率搞好一點\n\n12:24.492 --> 12:24.712\n委員會主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.931,"text":"這兩天金融圈有一個大新聞"},{"start":10.885,"end":36.271,"text":"就是傳出來啊國泰金控的三太子蔡振宇他現在並不在金控但是呢他一次準備要買兩家銀行一個金城銀行一個安泰銀行那當然就引起了金融圈的騷動那我想請問一下因為他要買這兩家銀行一定要跟我們金管會申請議法一定要申請目前有沒有任何的接觸"},{"start":37.589,"end":62.583,"text":"現在的話我們還沒有收到任何的這個申請我們也沒有...你有聽說嗎?在這之前你有聽說這件事嗎?我們是看到媒體報導知道這件事情所以你是看媒體報導才知道這件事情而到目前為止沒有任何申請?還沒有那第二件事齁那麼蔡正宇如果一次要買兩家銀行的話那麼有沒有違反我們金管會對於金金分離的一個政策以現在來看的話?"},{"start":63.223,"end":77.359,"text":"跟委員報告一下第一個,如果任何一個法人或治安人他要取得金礦公司的股權達一定比率以上我們有大股東四格性的規範他有不同的比率、不同的要求"},{"start":78.16,"end":106.433,"text":"那剛才委員提到的金金分離呢會落實在我們幾個法規的規定比如說你今天是A公司的負責人比如說你是A公司的董事你應該是不可以同時除非是比如說在金控下面有特別法律的排除以外那就要看他接下來比如說這個未來他是用什麼樣的方式取得這樣一個過程才能夠來判定現在判定其實還是言之過早他用什麼方式取得這個因為"},{"start":107.353,"end":132.398,"text":"他非常有可能用控股公司的方式,他不至於用個人的方式這就要看他整個的申請案背後是怎麼樣來申請的因為時間的關係所以我們對於如果今天蔡正宇他真的要買兩家銀行而且這兩家銀行目前狀況也都還好那其實我們也是鼓勵合併但是他有可能會違反我們經濟分離相關政策所以我們在這一部分還是會做嚴審,是不是?"},{"start":134.238,"end":159.689,"text":"如果說金金分離它是一個概念就跟上次在這邊有報告就是產金分離也是一個概念當我真的要落實在法令的時候它會有很具體的法規裡面規範的內容每個人對比如說產金分離的想法不一樣金金分離但是我們在執法單位一定是按照規定那我的意思是說它今天如果說是一個未來是先會處理一個叫做股權的購買就是大股東資格性的審核"},{"start":161.05,"end":180.213,"text":"二、當取得了以後,他們各自…但他一定要公開吧?他現在不能私下收購?這個就是要看他用什麼樣方的形式可是如果現在訊息出來的話,他應該要做公開的吧?這個就我們要看到,站在主管間,我們會看到你正式的申請文件"},{"start":181.494,"end":196.011,"text":"因為時間關係我覺得這個事情因為他是剛剛有一個訊息那麼現在看起來第一個就是有關經濟分離的政策那第二個就是因為他現在其實並不是金控的這個董監事那麼某一個程度因為他現在現在大概就是說他為什麼現在那麼有錢是因為是房地產的關係"},{"start":201.457,"end":218.786,"text":"所以這部分會不會也是你們比較會特別考量的地方其實報告委員其實現在都是一些臆測的這樣的一個或是報載的這樣詳細內容因為其實根據我們不管是銀行法、大股東、四格性的規範都非常非常清楚的你必須呈送各種的資料"},{"start":219.446,"end":237.558,"text":"那這部分我們就按照那個情況才能來來來判斷剛剛講的內容而且比如說我們對於那個資金的還原在所以你們不會因為他是現在是已做房地產然後對這個案子特別的謹慎會不會我們那個大股東適格性裡面他必須要我記得他必須揭露他那個購買資金的來源"},{"start":239.535,"end":239.976,"text":"新光晶合併問題"},{"start":258.538,"end":262.641,"text":"主委上任之初我看媒體有訪問過你你也說你是樂見金控診病的你也有四個條件樂見金融診病大概其實那個時候都是以新光金那我在這邊要特別提到的"},{"start":274.53,"end":295.264,"text":"您提到的,不管是競爭力、法律規範等等、市場穩定,我覺得也都非常合理。但是,小股東的權益,我認為是非常非常重要的。因為在合併的過程裡面,它可能是用恰恰特定人,或者它有一些種種的因素,當然我們最不希望看到的是政治性的因素。因為說實在,"},{"start":297.425,"end":315.06,"text":"現在臺新京的這個獨董名單裡面也出現了我們的前經濟部長但是我們最重視的應該還是小股東的權益那麼主委您同不同意當然比如說我剛才以前有在這個會裡面跟委員報告過"},{"start":316.181,"end":335.715,"text":"其實比如說我們在金空公司的合併比如舉例我們金空法18條、26條它都要經過一個股東大會的決議才能做成兩個法人的意思表示決議股東大會本來就是一個就是股東民主的場合這個就是要通過的股東大會這是一個前提要見"},{"start":336.856,"end":346.603,"text":"這個就是我們想說這個透過這個部分照顧到小股東而不是說用一個少數的股東可以決定這個問題我想回到法制的結構去所以這個小股東的權益的部分希望在機管會這邊能夠幫我們把關當然除了股東消費者也是是沒有錯"},{"start":357.89,"end":375.955,"text":"另外那個主委最近其實經濟日報做了一系列專題有人來特別介紹給我看那特別談到金管會7月1號成立20年我想我那時候當記者的時候那時候剛成立接牌我還去採訪那一晃也就20年了"},{"start":377.535,"end":377.795,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":403.892,"end":418.368,"text":"調到73名如果我們以當時我們2010年最好的19名來看的話你可以看到2024年我們的排名是真的是已經滑到真的慘不忍睹了啦吼"},{"start":419.491,"end":434.651,"text":"所以在這個部分也就是說現在的金管會經過20年後現在的金管會還有現在的主委你們所面臨的挑戰事實上是更嚴峻的啦但是某一個程度好處是什麼呢因為你我不知道是不是現在是谷底啦"},{"start":435.031,"end":453.168,"text":"您在谷底您的進步空間就會比較大一點如果您在巔峰的話您就隨時在擔心您會不會再下滑那在這裡面特別提到我們來看就說剛才我們特別講到銀行的整併、金控的整併那麼我也看到他們的專題裡面特別提到在20年前本國銀行49家、受險公司28家"},{"start":459.454,"end":461.075,"text":"但是經過了20年銀行是38家受險21家所以我們雖然在鼓勵這樣的一個銀行診病、金控診病事實上可能以臺灣因為我們很多是家族性的"},{"start":474.56,"end":502.937,"text":"他們可能覺得還是要自己做老闆不願意去跟人家診病但是呢在某一個程度上當你規模太小的時候沒有辦法能夠達到一定規模的時候你的競爭力就有限所以我們放豬四海我們可能跟我們的鄰國跟一些金融中心因為我們的規模太小所以呢我們的競爭力也受到了影響所以我想這個主委應該同意我剛才上面所講的話吧"},{"start":504.037,"end":530.251,"text":"剛才就是說金管會的努力應該是持續的這個評比我們有注意到這個評比其實它很多指標就任何一個評比我們都虛心的去檢討但是每個評比都有它的特色比如說剛剛委員指正就是說我們的銀行加速減少並不多但實際上我們很多的基層金融業確實少掉很多再來就是它可能忽略一點就是我們有個金控公司制度的成型"},{"start":530.991,"end":553.587,"text":"這一點的話確實改變了臺灣金融市場的競爭力我想這是很明顯的只是說他在指標裡面並沒有考慮到這一點我想任何一個這個我們都虛心接受但是呢我們還是努力啦當然當然當然就是承諾該委員講20年過去了那金管會不會迎向下一個20年我想時機我們會好好努力好非常好"},{"start":554.207,"end":554.347,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":574.227,"end":578.41,"text":"那麼所以這也就是為什麼討論說受險業的資金如何去導入做我們的公共建設那但這一點老師說啦我用一點點時間講一下我的看法其實呢這個你沒有辦法把牛牽到河邊去一定要求他喝水因為你一定要那個水是好喝的"},{"start":596.984,"end":614.938,"text":"這個牛是饑渴的對不對所以在這一點其實我們今天包含財政部、金管會或央行我們有點很重要就是我們的政府是不是能夠去對於有哪一些可以引進我們的受險業、金融業的資金導入的你要有一個好的產品出來"},{"start":619.201,"end":631.752,"text":"比如講我們講說社會住宅社會住宅是政府的政策不管是前面的蔡總統或者現在的賴總統那他確實需要大量的資金我記得當時花敬群次長在這邊還說要針對社宅啊他來發這個綠色債券"},{"start":637.597,"end":637.617,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":660.487,"end":681.234,"text":"AI產業、社宅甚至交通建設你就應該把這些產品拿出來否則我們就說你們去投資你們去投資他往哪裡去投資啊 對不對你想想看我們前瞻建設8年8800億我們都覺得哇真的是一個天文數字啊然後被我們罵到臭頭"},{"start":682.774,"end":682.894,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":700.421,"end":714.988,"text":"根本他拿出一部分就絕對可以彌補這8800億我們必須說不要8800億我們就一半吧對不對你只要有一定的自償率所以如果我們的政府只是天天喊我們要把這個資金導入導入導入"},{"start":716.169,"end":735.445,"text":"那你沒有產品啊而且你的自償率你推出來的這些建設自償率都極低甚至呢要100年後才能回本請問一下哪一個我是老闆我也不敢去投啊我真的去算過那些前瞻預算100年後才能回本呢都不曉得那個財務規劃是怎麼規劃的所以我覺得這一點當我們去討論到行政院討論我覺得你們應該大聲的跟他們說請你們設計出產品請你們把這自償率搞好一點"},{"start":744.492,"end":744.712,"text":"委員會主席"}]}}}}