{"id":154490,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154490","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bdb7da3503f94d9d4927d0a78c1009ae5ee8e3eb0bf88d021cce2e2fcc1480a81a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:09:00 - 11:21:26","影片長度":"00:12:26","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「『文化資產保存法』施行40年有餘，修復體系翻新升級」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T11:09:00+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T11:21:26+08:00","duration":746,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":620,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時9分）謝謝主席，我們有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：張委員，你好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長早安。首先，我這次看金曲獎，看到在表演的時候有出現臺文，而且是正字，是正確的，我真的感到非常高興。但很不幸地，接下來我又看到了另外一個片段，同樣一段的表演卻出現了「快快快，喝酒麥K孩」，這個正字應該要寫成這個樣子，所以我想要瞭解因為其他的語言都有相關的主責單位，但文化部是臺語唯一的主責單位，非常需要大家謹慎地照顧我們的臺語。我只在想關於臺語的歌詞，雖然它可能是老歌的歌詞，大家過去對臺文不瞭解，可能也沒有機會學習，所以會用可能「空耳」或是火星文，或是我們自己認為的語言去把它拼寫出來。但是因為我們現在都在推廣臺文了，這樣的大型典禮其實也是一個很好的宣傳機會，我們是不是應該要確保寫出來的臺文是正確的，這樣才能讓大家知道臺語也是有文字的，才不會出現像之前可能有委員質詢這個問題。","所以，我想請教，因為接下來還有金鐘跟金馬，我們是不是可以記取這次的教訓，我有兩個建議。第一個，我們是不是可以，因為我們已經有專家學者的資料庫了，我們是不是可以請臺文專家來協助，如果有一些相關的歌詞是臺語的部分，我們可以提供正字，可以協助勘誤。再來，可能大家也會擔心這樣是不是有點不尊重原本的創作者，那是不是可以採取另外一個方式，就是我們把原歌詞跟正確的歌詞並陳，我不曉得部長您的看法如何？"],["李部長遠：因為這個部分涉及到原作者的著作權，如果能夠溝通，譬如說跟他商量，你願不願意改，他如果願意改，我想我們就改。因為剛剛委員提到用字、用語沒有標準這件事，剛好最近我們文化部成立了一個國家語言發展研究中心，想要做的事情可能這部分就是一個蠻重要的部分，就是各種不同的語言，它的華文用出來的時候，它的字是用哪一個字比較對，這是未來我們那個中心要研究的。剛剛講的歌詞的部分，的確歌詞會傳播得比較快，因為傳播會很快，所以委員剛剛講的部分，未來我們來商量一下，如果覺得它的用字不對，我們可以跟他討論。"],["張委員雅琳：我想可以從兩個方向，就是我們協助提供正確的歌詞，如果原作者還是希望堅持自己的原作詞，我也支持喔！但是我希望在他的原作詞下面我們可以放個括號，像我們可能之前有一些方式，我們用個括號去把正確的字也寫在下面，讓大家去理解原來正確的字是這樣子寫，好不好？我們往這個方向來努力，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：是。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝。再來下一個就是有關不義遺址專法的法制進度，不義遺址保存條例草案在112年，也就是去年的5月9號已經送進行政院審竣，行政院審竣完也一年了，我想要瞭解大概什麼時候會送進立法院來審查呢？"],["李部長遠：據我所知，已經送到立法院了，那詳細情況，對不起，我們送到行政院了，還沒有送到立法院……"],["張委員雅琳：已經送到行政院，但是還沒有送到立法院。"],["李部長遠：我請對整個事情比較瞭解的王次長來跟你報告。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，後來在去年5月9號之後，由行政院政委主持會議，我們又經過了幾次條文的修正，在去年的12月28號有將最後修正的版本送進行政院，後來行政院跟立法院應該是在協調立法院排案的進度，這個部分我們就尊重行政院協調的結果，所以什麼時候會排進立法院，大概還是要看行政院跟貴院協調的最終時程而定。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我瞭解。我們之前也有跟文資局做一些討論，當時就有談到不義遺址的議題，因為在之前促轉會的時代，大家就一直講這件事情非常重要，如何保留不義遺址做一些人權教育來活化這些基地以傳承臺灣過去這一段過程的歷史。但是當時文資局告訴我們它沒有辦法，因為在沒有遺構、沒有建物這種狀況下，它很難去認定它是一個不義遺址，應該是說它很難做一些活化保存，所以它非常需要這個專法。可是現在聽起來，我們又沒有這個專法，針對這些潛在的不義遺址，現在還有這麼多處，我們已經有相關的審議會議來審定它的資格沒有錯，但是，到底我們要如何來活化它呢？我們沒有一個相關的計畫，不然就會變成爹不疼、娘不愛，它變成一個孤兒，到底誰來照顧它，可是它就是日漸地凋零，所以，我們是不是可以有一些相關的計畫，或者是用一些管理要點的方式來做相關的活化工作呢？"],["王次長時思：我分成幾個部分跟委員說明，第一個是已經審定的不義遺址42處，這42處因為已經指定了，已經確定它是不義遺址，所以這部分是以內容的充實、史料的完整為主。第二部分所謂潛在的部分，潛在的部分，現在雖然不義遺址保存條例這個法案還沒有通過，但是我們開始進行所謂的預審，我們就會先把這些潛在的不義遺址，有可能應該要認定為不義遺址的部分再做審定……"],["張委員雅琳：我瞭解，現在是有身分，但是活化的工作呢？"],["王次長時思：現在的問題是，因為不義遺址分屬於不同的地方，它如果是公有的，譬如說有的像這一次在臺南的民生綠園，那裡也有一個，它現在就在使用的狀態，就比較沒有活化的問題；有一些譬如它在國防的機敏地帶，那它就有沒有辦法活化的問題；那有一些是屬於私人的，那也有可能所有人不願意讓大家知道這是所謂的不義遺址，還要進行溝通，所以……"],["張委員雅琳：我理解，但這是一部分的問題，但是既有的也有一些是屬於國家單位的……"],["王次長時思：有，譬如說像景美人權園區，或者是像安康接待所，像這些我們已經把它列入活化的對象，就是我們把它變成是人權園區，或者是像綠島人權園區，這些其實也都是所謂的不義遺址。所以它大概有分不同的階段，如果是公有的、沒有爭議的、已經被審定的，歷史的資料也相對完整的，這個大概就會進入首部的活化……"],["張委員雅琳：好，沒關係，我瞭解。我們就直接進入這個部分，就是相關的工作其實是人權館的工作，我也看到人權館從2012年到現在，你也可以從這張表格中看到，它的人權推廣活動的補助預算占整體的比例是逐年下降，我想要瞭解這個原因是什麼？我也知道有非常多其實是既有也沒有任何爭議的，但是我現在看到相關的內容還是非常地少，這是第一個，比例、經費的下降。第二個，不義遺址的教案，從2019年之後時光就凍結了，沒有再更新，而且高中、國中、國小都只有一個教案，我覺得這對於活化這件事情是相對地不積極，所以，我想要瞭解我們有沒有更積極的方式？從第一個，先幫我解釋一下預算的部分，然後還有作法。"],["王次長時思：跟委員說明，對於不義遺址的教案，其實要繼續開發中，這部分我們一定會積極來提升，不會讓它停留在只有3個教案。至於補助案的部分，據我的瞭解是這樣，它的補助案數量會因為補助的需求跟項目而減少，但是它的整體經費其實並沒有減少，它可能用在自辦，像自辦人權小旅行這類的方式，或者是做人權巡迴車的推廣，所以不一定是以補助的形式展現。但是如果有哪些做人權的，因為我們沒有補助而導致他沒有辦法繼續推動的，也請委員不吝提供我們這項資訊，我們會非常樂意來進行這一類的補助。"],["張委員雅琳：好。你剛剛講的那些，可能有部分是用促轉基金做的，對嗎？但是促轉基金到底有多少預算，可不可以也提供給我們，因為我們之前有跟你們索取但還沒有拿到……"],["王次長時思：好，我們提供給委員……"],["張委員雅琳：再請會後補給我們。"],["王次長時思：好，因為促轉基金是每年申請的，所以它的額度也都不相同。"],["張委員雅琳：對，因為你們從去年開始有申請，對不對？那實際的金額也提供給我們。但是促轉基金之外，我們可以回到這一張圖表來看，我們的人權推廣補助案整體的經費的確是下降了，但是你剛剛說有些是自辦的，那這些相關的費用也一起整理給我們，我們來看看到底是不是……因為民間有在反映，他們覺得補助案的金額變少了。"],["王次長時思：我們請人權館做一個總整理。"],["張委員雅琳：好。再來我想瞭解，因為剛剛有講到教案部分可以積極地處理，我想要瞭解大概規劃的進度是何時？"],["王次長時思：我們一樣可以提供給委員我們的規劃進度，因為教案的部分是我們在做人權推廣的一個主要的內容，因為他們現在做的比較多是把原有的教案複製提供給更多的學校，至於在內容的充實上，我想我們會持續來進行，就是除了去擴散學校以外，同時也在內容上增加更多的教案。"],["張委員雅琳：對，這件事情我真的非常希望大家可以重視，因為這個教案就是提供給老師們或是家長們，可以在家裡或在學校裡自己操作，可是如果都只有一個案子的話，變成說它在操作性上面難度非常高，可能要有不同的地點，比較多的內容跟方式，它才會比較好操作。"],["王次長時思：這個我們會來研議，它可能也跟我們所能夠掌握到的足以變成教案的內容會有關係，但這個我們一定盡力來做。"],["張委員雅琳：再來，回到中正紀念堂，為什麼我一直很強調教案這部分，因為其實我在民間也有在做教案，包含我自己也有做中正紀念堂的教案，或者還有剛剛有講到民間的徵件，我過去在民間都有在做這些事情。那我今天要講的中正紀念堂，就是當時我在做這個教案時，我們邀請了一些深藍的或是外省第二代的家庭，他們聽完我們的故事之後，他就講了這一段話，我覺得非常地重要。他說他雖然很早就知道蔣中正的真實版本，但當時改名叫自由廣場的時候，他會覺得是不是太沒事找事做了，改的名字也沒有原來的響亮，畢竟他是外省第二代，但是那天他聽我們講完整個走讀的故事之後，他突然覺得改名真的很重要，所以希望這裡可以成為一個兼具歷史的、有意義的，又親民的一個場地，所以這個教案其實就是在幫我們做很多很多民間的鬆動跟凝聚民間的共識，讓不同的視角可以一起來對話。所以這件事情真的是非常需要積極地來做，所以相關的一些計畫、規劃的內容，我們就在會後約個時間來詳細討論，好嗎？"],["李部長遠：好。"],["張委員雅琳：抱歉，最後我快快講一句喔！中正紀念堂因為剛剛其實大家有非常多的爭議在講衛兵交接的儀式要如何進行，我這邊也可以提供一個想法供部長參考，當然要對威權致敬，這是一個非常荒謬的事情，現在大家在討論的是，它又是一個很重要的觀光儀式，就可能像是白金漢宮大概有做這種儀式，大家想要去看，但是我覺得我們是不是就應該把它訂定為就是一個觀光的表演，大家也可以來思考是不是就是一個觀光的表演，是不是需要用軍人來執行這件事情呢？還是像韓國景福宮、韓國的一些宮殿都有一些相關的表演，它就會有相關的一些時程、時間，在暴風雪、在酷暑的時候，他們就會暫停，就可以兼具到表演、觀光，但是也可以兼具到表演者的安全，提供給部長來做個參考，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：是，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員的質詢。"],["主席（張委員雅琳代）：我們邀請林宜瑾委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-18","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞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\"end\": 687.781, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 687.781, \"end\": 688.222, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 688.222, \"end\": 688.542, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 688.542, \"end\": 688.822, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 688.822, \"end\": 689.503, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"儀\"}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 689.503, \"end\": 689.903, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 689.903, \"end\": 690.043, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 690.043, \"end\": 690.163, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 690.163, \"end\": 690.564, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 690.564, \"end\": 691.224, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 691.224, \"end\": 691.344, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 691.344, \"end\": 691.604, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 691.604, \"end\": 691.704, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 691.704, \"end\": 691.804, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 691.804, \"end\": 691.865, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 691.865, \"end\": 691.985, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 691.985, \"end\": 692.125, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 692.125, \"end\": 692.865, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 692.865, \"end\": 693.166, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 693.166, \"end\": 693.346, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 693.346, \"end\": 693.986, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 693.986, \"end\": 694.306, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 694.306, \"end\": 694.387, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 694.387, \"end\": 694.427, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 718.845, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 718.845, \"end\": 718.905, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 718.905, \"end\": 718.925, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 718.925, \"end\": 718.985, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 718.985, \"end\": 719.005, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,369 --> 00:00:00,789\n張雅琳委員\n\n2\n00:00:17,827 --> 00:00:36,495\n部長早安首先我在這次看金曲獎的時候我在看到這個表演的時候有這個臺文而且是正字正確的我其實真的非常感到高興但很不幸的在接下來我又看到了另外一個片段同樣一段的表演\n\n3\n00:00:37,475 --> 00:00:52,041\n就出現了快快快臨舊賣K孩賣K孩這個正字應該要寫成是這個樣子所以我想要了解就是說其實因為\n\n4\n00:00:53,188 --> 00:01:21,888\n文化部因為其實大家其他的語言都有相關的組織單位那文化部是台語唯一的組織單位是非常需要大家來謹慎的照顧我們的台語所以我只是在想在我們這個台語的歌詞雖然它是可能是老歌的歌詞大家過去對台文不了解可能也沒有那個機會學習所以會用可能空耳或是火星文或是我們自己認為的語言去把它拼寫出來但是因為我們現在都在推廣台文了\n\n5\n00:01:23,169 --> 00:01:47,346\n我們在這樣大型的典禮其實也是一個很好的宣傳機會我們是不是應該要來確保我們寫出來的臺文是正確的嘛我們才能讓大家知道臺語也是有語言的才不會出現像之前可能有委員質詢這個問題嘛所以我在想請教育院接下來還有金鐘跟金馬我們是不是可以記取這次的教訓我有兩個建議第一個我們是不是可以因為我們已經有專家學者治療庫了\n\n6\n00:01:48,046 --> 00:01:48,686\n部長,您的看法如何?\n\n7\n00:02:09,096 --> 00:02:35,792\n因為這個部分涉及到那個原作者他用的一些著作權如果能夠溝通比如說跟他講說你願不願意改他如果願意改我想就我們就改因為剛剛委員提到這個用字用語沒有一個標準這個我們剛好最近文化部成立一個國家語言發展研究中心想要做的事情可能就這一部分是一個蠻重要的部分就是各種不同的語言它的\n\n8\n00:02:36,789 --> 00:02:36,929\n張雅琳\n\n9\n00:02:50,030 --> 00:03:19,453\n傳播會很快所以委員剛剛講的部分我想未來我們來商量一下如果覺得他用字不對我們可以跟他討論這樣我想兩個方向就是說我們提供協助提供正確的歌詞那如果原作者還是希望堅持他自己的原作詞我也支持但是我希望在他原作詞下面我們可以做個括號像我們可能之前在有一些的方式我們問個括號去把正確的詞也寫在下面讓大家去理解到說原來正確是這樣子寫好不好那就是我們\n\n10\n00:03:19,633 --> 00:03:20,093\n112年已經送進行政院審訊\n\n11\n00:03:37,094 --> 00:03:56,552\n這一個字不易以止我想要了解就是說已經也一年了大概什麼時候呢我們會送進立法院來做審查呢好據我所知已經送到立法院了那詳細情況行政院對不起我們說到行政院還不到立法院然後請那個承辦這個整個事情比較了解的黃社長來跟你報告\n\n12\n00:04:00,287 --> 00:04:28,359\n跟委員說明其實後來在去年5月9號之後大概我們在跟行政院由政委來主持會又經過了幾次的條文的修正所以在去年的12月28號有修到最後的版本進到行政院那後來行政院跟立法院應該是在協調立法院排案的進度那這個部分我們大概就尊重行政院協調的結果所以什麼時候會排進立法院大概還是要看行政院跟貴院協調的的最終時程來定定\n\n13\n00:04:29,019 --> 00:04:55,744\n好我了解那我想就是說因為其實我們之前其實也有跟文資局來做一些討論那他就有講到不義遺址因為其實在之前的轉型正義突轉會的時代大家就一直有講這件事情非常的重要如何保留這個不義遺址來做一些人權教育來活化這些基地都是傳承台灣過去這一個過程的一個歷史那但是當時文資局告訴我們說就是說因為不義遺址他沒有辦法因為在現在的他沒有遺構\n\n14\n00:04:56,704 --> 00:05:20,113\n他也沒有見誤這種狀況他很難去認定他是一個不移植他很難做一些活化保存應該是這樣講所以他非常需要這個專法可是現在聽起來我又沒有這個專法那我們針對這些潛在的不移植現在還有這麼多處我們已經有相關的審議會議來做審定他的資格沒有錯但是呢到底我們要如何來活化他呢我們沒有相關的一個計畫\n\n15\n00:05:21,594 --> 00:05:39,069\n不然就會變成爹不疼娘不愛她變成一個孤兒到底誰來照顧她可是她就日漸的凋零所以我現在是看到就是說我們是不是可以有一些相關的計畫的方式或者是用一些要點管理要點的方式來做這個相關的活化的工作呢\n\n16\n00:05:39,389 --> 00:06:04,462\n跟委員說明大概分成幾個部分第一個是已經審定的不移植42處那這42處因為已經建立了它的已經指定了已經確定它是不移植所以這個部分是以內容的充實史料的完整來為主那第二部分所謂潛在的部分那潛在的部分雖然不移植的這個法案還沒有通過但是我們開始進行所謂的預審我們就先把這些潛在的不移植有可能應該是變成不移植再做審定\n\n17\n00:06:04,562 --> 00:06:31,423\n但是活化的工作身份有但是活化的工作呢現在的問題是因為現在的不移植分屬於不同的地方譬如說它如果是公有的譬如說有的像這一次在臺南的民生綠園那裡也有一個它現在就在使用的狀態就比較沒有活化的問題那有一些譬如它在國防的機敏地帶那它就有沒有辦法活化的問題那有一些是在私人的部分那它就也有說它可能不願意讓大家知道這是所謂的不移植還要進行溝通\n\n18\n00:06:33,104 --> 00:06:57,766\n這是一部分的問題,但是既有一些是比如說像集美人權園區或者是像安康接待所像這些我們就是已經把它列入所謂活化的內容就是說我們把它變成是人權園區或者是像綠島人權園區這些其實也都是所謂的不義遺址所以它大概有分不同的階段如果是公有的沒有爭議的然後已經被審定的歷史的資料也相對完整的這個大概就會進入首部的活化\n\n19\n00:06:58,426 --> 00:07:24,486\n好沒關係我了解齁我了解喔但是我想那我們就直接進到這一個就是說因為相關的工作其實是人權管的工作嘛那我也看到就是人權管從2012年到現在你也可以看到這張表格我們它的人權推廣活動的補助預算占整體的比例是逐年下降那我想要了解這個原因是什麼如果我們在因為其實我也知道有非常多是既有其實也沒有任何爭議的但是我現在看到我們相關的內容其實還是非常的少\n\n20\n00:07:25,527 --> 00:07:46,287\n這是第一個,比例經費的下降第二個,不易移植的教案從2019年之後時光就凍結了沒有再更新而且高中、國中、國小都只有一個教案那我覺得在對活化這件事情是相對的不積極所以我想要了解說我們有沒有更積極的方式從第一個先幫我解釋一下預算的部分然後還有做法\n\n21\n00:07:47,228 --> 00:08:02,723\n根文說明對於不移植的教案這個部分其實要繼續的開發中我們這個部分一定會積極來做提升不會讓它停留在只有三個教案那至於補助案的部分據我的了解是這樣因為它的補助案它會因為補助的需求跟項目而減少\n\n22\n00:08:03,664 --> 00:08:26,933\n但是它的經費其實整體經費並沒有減少它可能用在自辦或者是像自辦旅行這一類的方式人權小旅行這一類的方式或者是做人權這個巡迴車的這個推廣所以它不一定是以補助的形式展現但是如果有哪些做人權的但是我們因為沒有補助而導致它沒有辦法進行推動的也請委員不吝提供我們這樣的資訊我們會非常樂意來進行這一類的補助\n\n23\n00:08:29,574 --> 00:08:46,936\n好,因為我想要,因為你剛剛講的那些部分,可能有部分是用促轉基金做的,對嗎?但是因為這個促轉基金到底有多少的預算可不可以也提供給我們?因為我們之前還沒有拿到,之前有跟你們說一句啦,那之後再匯報補給我們。好,因為促轉基金是每年申請的,所以它的額度也都不相同。\n\n24\n00:08:47,656 --> 00:09:04,373\n對對對那我就說你們從去年開始有申請嘛對不對那這個實際的金額也提供給我們但是我想說促轉基金之外我覺得我們可以回到這一張來看我們人權推廣補助案整體的經費的確是下降的但是你剛剛有說有些是自辦的那這些費用也相關的一起整理給我們我們來看看到底\n\n25\n00:09:06,174 --> 00:09:26,081\n民間是有在回應就是說他們覺得補助案的金變少了我們來請人權管做一個總整理好那再來就是說我想了解因為剛剛有講到教案可以來積極的處理那我想要了解大概規劃進度是何時我們一樣可以提供給委員我們的規劃進度因為這個教案的部分是我們主力的在做人權推廣的一個主要的內容\n\n26\n00:09:26,991 --> 00:09:54,926\n因為他們現在做的是比較多是把原有的教案複製提供給更多的學校那至於在內容的充實上我想這就是我們持續來進行就是除了去擴散學校以外同時也在內容上增加更多的教案對因為我這個這件事情我真的非常的希望大家可以重視啦因為其實這個教案就是提供給老師們或是家長們可以讓在家裡或在學校裡自己操作嘛可是如果都只有一個案子的話變成它操作性上面難度非常高可能要有不同的地點\n\n27\n00:09:56,647 --> 00:09:57,407\n中正紀念堂教案\n\n28\n00:10:21,234 --> 00:10:44,683\n我過去在民間都有在做這件事情那我今天要講這個中正紀念堂就是當時我做這個教案我們邀請了一些來自於深藍家庭的或是外省第二代的家庭那他們聽完我們的故事之後呢他就講了這一段話我覺得非常的重要就是說他雖然很早就知道講中正的真實版本但當時改名叫自由廣場的時候他會覺得是不是太沒事早事做了\n\n29\n00:10:46,072 --> 00:11:08,927\n改的名字也沒有原來的響亮畢竟他是外省第二代但是那天他聽我們講完這整個走讀的故事之後他突然覺得改名真的很重要所以希望這裡可以成為一個兼具歷史有意義的又親民的一個場地所以這個教案其實就是在幫我們做很多很多民間的鬆動跟鄰居民間的共識讓不同的視角可以一起來對話\n\n30\n00:11:10,788 --> 00:11:34,547\n所以這件事情真的是非常需要積極的來做所以相關的一些計畫規劃的內容我們就在會後約個時間來詳細討論好嗎?好那最後抱歉就是我快快講一句就是說中正紀念談因為剛剛其實大家有非常多的爭議在講這個衛兵的這個交接的這個儀式到如何進行那我這邊也可以提供一個想法啦供部長來參考就是說\n\n31\n00:11:36,768 --> 00:11:57,785\n當然要對威權致敬這是一個非常荒謬的事情那現在大家討論說但是它又是一個很重要的觀光的一個儀式就很像是可能白金漢宮啊大陸這種儀式大家想要去看但是我覺得我們是不是就應該把它定定為它就是一個觀光的表演就是大家也可以來思考是不是就是一個觀光的表演\n\n32\n00:11:58,725 --> 00:11:59,005\n提供給部長來做個參考\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n369\t789\t張雅琳委員\n17827\t36495\t部長早安首先我在這次看金曲獎的時候我在看到這個表演的時候有這個臺文而且是正字正確的我其實真的非常感到高興但很不幸的在接下來我又看到了另外一個片段同樣一段的表演\n37475\t52041\t就出現了快快快臨舊賣K孩賣K孩這個正字應該要寫成是這個樣子所以我想要了解就是說其實因為\n53188\t81888\t文化部因為其實大家其他的語言都有相關的組織單位那文化部是台語唯一的組織單位是非常需要大家來謹慎的照顧我們的台語所以我只是在想在我們這個台語的歌詞雖然它是可能是老歌的歌詞大家過去對台文不了解可能也沒有那個機會學習所以會用可能空耳或是火星文或是我們自己認為的語言去把它拼寫出來但是因為我們現在都在推廣台文了\n83169\t107346\t我們在這樣大型的典禮其實也是一個很好的宣傳機會我們是不是應該要來確保我們寫出來的臺文是正確的嘛我們才能讓大家知道臺語也是有語言的才不會出現像之前可能有委員質詢這個問題嘛所以我在想請教育院接下來還有金鐘跟金馬我們是不是可以記取這次的教訓我有兩個建議第一個我們是不是可以因為我們已經有專家學者治療庫了\n108046\t108686\t部長,您的看法如何?\n129096\t155792\t因為這個部分涉及到那個原作者他用的一些著作權如果能夠溝通比如說跟他講說你願不願意改他如果願意改我想就我們就改因為剛剛委員提到這個用字用語沒有一個標準這個我們剛好最近文化部成立一個國家語言發展研究中心想要做的事情可能就這一部分是一個蠻重要的部分就是各種不同的語言它的\n156789\t156929\t張雅琳\n170030\t199453\t傳播會很快所以委員剛剛講的部分我想未來我們來商量一下如果覺得他用字不對我們可以跟他討論這樣我想兩個方向就是說我們提供協助提供正確的歌詞那如果原作者還是希望堅持他自己的原作詞我也支持但是我希望在他原作詞下面我們可以做個括號像我們可能之前在有一些的方式我們問個括號去把正確的詞也寫在下面讓大家去理解到說原來正確是這樣子寫好不好那就是我們\n199633\t200093\t112年 已經送進行政院審訊\n217094\t236552\t這一個字不易以止我想要了解就是說已經也一年了大概什麼時候呢我們會送進立法院來做審查呢好 據我所知已經送到立法院了那詳細情況行政院 對不起我們說到行政院還不到立法院然後請那個承辦這個整個事情比較了解的黃社長來跟你報告\n240287\t268359\t跟委員說明其實後來在去年5月9號之後大概我們在跟行政院由政委來主持會又經過了幾次的條文的修正所以在去年的12月28號有修到最後的版本進到行政院那後來行政院跟立法院應該是在協調立法院排案的進度那這個部分我們大概就尊重行政院協調的結果所以什麼時候會排進立法院大概還是要看行政院跟貴院協調的的最終時程來定定\n269019\t295744\t好 我了解那我想就是說因為其實我們之前其實也有跟文資局來做一些討論那他就有講到不義遺址因為其實在之前的轉型正義 突轉會的時代大家就一直有講這件事情非常的重要如何保留這個不義遺址來做一些人權教育來活化這些基地都是傳承台灣過去這一個過程的一個歷史那但是當時文資局告訴我們說就是說因為不義遺址他沒有辦法因為在現在的他沒有遺構\n296704\t320113\t他也沒有見誤這種狀況他很難去認定他是一個不移植他很難做一些活化保存應該是這樣講所以他非常需要這個專法可是現在聽起來我又沒有這個專法那我們針對這些潛在的不移植現在還有這麼多處我們已經有相關的審議會議來做審定他的資格沒有錯但是呢到底我們要如何來活化他呢我們沒有相關的一個計畫\n321594\t339069\t不然就會變成爹不疼娘不愛她變成一個孤兒到底誰來照顧她可是她就日漸的凋零所以我現在是看到就是說我們是不是可以有一些相關的計畫的方式或者是用一些要點管理要點的方式來做這個相關的活化的工作呢\n339389\t364462\t跟委員說明大概分成幾個部分第一個是已經審定的不移植42處那這42處因為已經建立了它的已經指定了已經確定它是不移植所以這個部分是以內容的充實史料的完整來為主那第二部分所謂潛在的部分那潛在的部分雖然不移植的這個法案還沒有通過但是我們開始進行所謂的預審我們就先把這些潛在的不移植有可能應該是變成不移植再做審定\n364562\t391423\t但是活化的工作 身份有但是活化的工作呢現在的問題是因為現在的不移植分屬於不同的地方譬如說它如果是公有的譬如說有的像這一次在臺南的民生綠園那裡也有一個它現在就在使用的狀態就比較沒有活化的問題那有一些譬如它在國防的機敏地帶那它就有沒有辦法活化的問題那有一些是在私人的部分那它就也有說它可能不願意讓大家知道這是所謂的不移植還要進行溝通\n393104\t417766\t這是一部分的問題,但是既有一些是比如說像集美人權園區或者是像安康接待所像這些我們就是已經把它列入所謂活化的內容就是說我們把它變成是人權園區或者是像綠島人權園區這些其實也都是所謂的不義遺址所以它大概有分不同的階段如果是公有的沒有爭議的然後已經被審定的歷史的資料也相對完整的這個大概就會進入首部的活化\n418426\t444486\t好 沒關係 我了解齁 我了解喔但是我想 那我們就直接進到這一個就是說因為相關的工作其實是人權管的工作嘛那我也看到 就是人權管從2012年到現在你也可以看到這張表格我們它的人權推廣活動的補助預算占整體的比例是逐年下降那我想要了解這個原因是什麼如果我們在 因為其實我也知道有非常多是既有 其實也沒有任何爭議的但是我現在看到我們相關的內容其實還是非常的少\n445527\t466287\t這是第一個,比例經費的下降第二個,不易移植的教案從2019年之後時光就凍結了沒有再更新而且高中、國中、國小都只有一個教案那我覺得在對活化這件事情是相對的不積極所以我想要了解說我們有沒有更積極的方式從第一個先幫我解釋一下預算的部分然後還有做法\n467228\t482723\t根文說明對於不移植的教案這個部分其實要繼續的開發中我們這個部分一定會積極來做提升不會讓它停留在只有三個教案那至於補助案的部分據我的了解是這樣因為它的補助案它會因為補助的需求跟項目而減少\n483664\t506933\t但是它的經費其實整體經費並沒有減少它可能用在自辦或者是像自辦旅行這一類的方式人權小旅行這一類的方式或者是做人權這個巡迴車的這個推廣所以它不一定是以補助的形式展現但是如果有哪些做人權的但是我們因為沒有補助而導致它沒有辦法進行推動的也請委員不吝提供我們這樣的資訊我們會非常樂意來進行這一類的補助\n509574\t526936\t好,因為我想要,因為你剛剛講的那些部分,可能有部分是用促轉基金做的,對嗎?但是因為這個促轉基金到底有多少的預算可不可以也提供給我們?因為我們之前還沒有拿到,之前有跟你們說一句啦,那之後再匯報補給我們。好,因為促轉基金是每年申請的,所以它的額度也都不相同。\n527656\t544373\t對對對那我就說你們從去年開始有申請嘛對不對那這個實際的金額也提供給我們但是我想說促轉基金之外我覺得我們可以回到這一張來看我們人權推廣補助案整體的經費的確是下降的但是你剛剛有說有些是自辦的那這些費用也相關的一起整理給我們我們來看看到底\n546174\t566081\t民間是有在回應就是說他們覺得補助案的金變少了我們來請人權管做一個總整理好那再來就是說我想了解因為剛剛有講到教案可以來積極的處理那我想要了解大概規劃進度是何時我們一樣可以提供給委員我們的規劃進度因為這個教案的部分是我們主力的在做人權推廣的一個主要的內容\n566991\t594926\t因為他們現在做的是比較多是把原有的教案複製提供給更多的學校那至於在內容的充實上我想這就是我們持續來進行就是除了去擴散學校以外同時也在內容上增加更多的教案對 因為我這個這件事情我真的非常的希望大家可以重視啦因為其實這個教案就是提供給老師們或是家長們可以讓在家裡或在學校裡自己操作嘛可是如果都只有一個案子的話變成它操作性上面難度非常高可能要有不同的地點\n596647\t597407\t中正紀念堂教案\n621234\t644683\t我過去在民間都有在做這件事情那我今天要講這個中正紀念堂就是當時我做這個教案我們邀請了一些來自於深藍家庭的或是外省第二代的家庭那他們聽完我們的故事之後呢他就講了這一段話我覺得非常的重要就是說他雖然很早就知道講中正的真實版本但當時改名叫自由廣場的時候他會覺得是不是太沒事早事做了\n646072\t668927\t改的名字也沒有原來的響亮畢竟他是外省第二代但是那天他聽我們講完這整個走讀的故事之後他突然覺得改名真的很重要所以希望這裡可以成為一個兼具歷史有意義的又親民的一個場地所以這個教案其實就是在幫我們做很多很多民間的鬆動跟鄰居民間的共識讓不同的視角可以一起來對話\n670788\t694547\t所以這件事情真的是非常需要積極的來做所以相關的一些計畫規劃的內容我們就在會後約個時間來詳細討論好嗎?好那最後抱歉就是我快快講一句就是說中正紀念談因為剛剛其實大家有非常多的爭議在講這個衛兵的這個交接的這個儀式到如何進行那我這邊也可以提供一個想法啦供部長來參考就是說\n696768\t717785\t當然要對威權致敬這是一個非常荒謬的事情那現在大家討論說但是它又是一個很重要的觀光的一個儀式就很像是可能白金漢宮啊大陸這種儀式大家想要去看但是我覺得我們是不是就應該把它定定為它就是一個觀光的表演就是大家也可以來思考是不是就是一個觀光的表演\n718725\t719005\t提供給部長來做個參考\n","txt":"張雅琳委員\n部長早安首先我在這次看金曲獎的時候我在看到這個表演的時候有這個臺文而且是正字正確的我其實真的非常感到高興但很不幸的在接下來我又看到了另外一個片段同樣一段的表演\n就出現了快快快臨舊賣K孩賣K孩這個正字應該要寫成是這個樣子所以我想要了解就是說其實因為\n文化部因為其實大家其他的語言都有相關的組織單位那文化部是台語唯一的組織單位是非常需要大家來謹慎的照顧我們的台語所以我只是在想在我們這個台語的歌詞雖然它是可能是老歌的歌詞大家過去對台文不了解可能也沒有那個機會學習所以會用可能空耳或是火星文或是我們自己認為的語言去把它拼寫出來但是因為我們現在都在推廣台文了\n我們在這樣大型的典禮其實也是一個很好的宣傳機會我們是不是應該要來確保我們寫出來的臺文是正確的嘛我們才能讓大家知道臺語也是有語言的才不會出現像之前可能有委員質詢這個問題嘛所以我在想請教育院接下來還有金鐘跟金馬我們是不是可以記取這次的教訓我有兩個建議第一個我們是不是可以因為我們已經有專家學者治療庫了\n部長,您的看法如何?\n因為這個部分涉及到那個原作者他用的一些著作權如果能夠溝通比如說跟他講說你願不願意改他如果願意改我想就我們就改因為剛剛委員提到這個用字用語沒有一個標準這個我們剛好最近文化部成立一個國家語言發展研究中心想要做的事情可能就這一部分是一個蠻重要的部分就是各種不同的語言它的\n張雅琳\n傳播會很快所以委員剛剛講的部分我想未來我們來商量一下如果覺得他用字不對我們可以跟他討論這樣我想兩個方向就是說我們提供協助提供正確的歌詞那如果原作者還是希望堅持他自己的原作詞我也支持但是我希望在他原作詞下面我們可以做個括號像我們可能之前在有一些的方式我們問個括號去把正確的詞也寫在下面讓大家去理解到說原來正確是這樣子寫好不好那就是我們\n112年 已經送進行政院審訊\n這一個字不易以止我想要了解就是說已經也一年了大概什麼時候呢我們會送進立法院來做審查呢好 據我所知已經送到立法院了那詳細情況行政院 對不起我們說到行政院還不到立法院然後請那個承辦這個整個事情比較了解的黃社長來跟你報告\n跟委員說明其實後來在去年5月9號之後大概我們在跟行政院由政委來主持會又經過了幾次的條文的修正所以在去年的12月28號有修到最後的版本進到行政院那後來行政院跟立法院應該是在協調立法院排案的進度那這個部分我們大概就尊重行政院協調的結果所以什麼時候會排進立法院大概還是要看行政院跟貴院協調的的最終時程來定定\n好 我了解那我想就是說因為其實我們之前其實也有跟文資局來做一些討論那他就有講到不義遺址因為其實在之前的轉型正義 突轉會的時代大家就一直有講這件事情非常的重要如何保留這個不義遺址來做一些人權教育來活化這些基地都是傳承台灣過去這一個過程的一個歷史那但是當時文資局告訴我們說就是說因為不義遺址他沒有辦法因為在現在的他沒有遺構\n他也沒有見誤這種狀況他很難去認定他是一個不移植他很難做一些活化保存應該是這樣講所以他非常需要這個專法可是現在聽起來我又沒有這個專法那我們針對這些潛在的不移植現在還有這麼多處我們已經有相關的審議會議來做審定他的資格沒有錯但是呢到底我們要如何來活化他呢我們沒有相關的一個計畫\n不然就會變成爹不疼娘不愛她變成一個孤兒到底誰來照顧她可是她就日漸的凋零所以我現在是看到就是說我們是不是可以有一些相關的計畫的方式或者是用一些要點管理要點的方式來做這個相關的活化的工作呢\n跟委員說明大概分成幾個部分第一個是已經審定的不移植42處那這42處因為已經建立了它的已經指定了已經確定它是不移植所以這個部分是以內容的充實史料的完整來為主那第二部分所謂潛在的部分那潛在的部分雖然不移植的這個法案還沒有通過但是我們開始進行所謂的預審我們就先把這些潛在的不移植有可能應該是變成不移植再做審定\n但是活化的工作 身份有但是活化的工作呢現在的問題是因為現在的不移植分屬於不同的地方譬如說它如果是公有的譬如說有的像這一次在臺南的民生綠園那裡也有一個它現在就在使用的狀態就比較沒有活化的問題那有一些譬如它在國防的機敏地帶那它就有沒有辦法活化的問題那有一些是在私人的部分那它就也有說它可能不願意讓大家知道這是所謂的不移植還要進行溝通\n這是一部分的問題,但是既有一些是比如說像集美人權園區或者是像安康接待所像這些我們就是已經把它列入所謂活化的內容就是說我們把它變成是人權園區或者是像綠島人權園區這些其實也都是所謂的不義遺址所以它大概有分不同的階段如果是公有的沒有爭議的然後已經被審定的歷史的資料也相對完整的這個大概就會進入首部的活化\n好 沒關係 我了解齁 我了解喔但是我想 那我們就直接進到這一個就是說因為相關的工作其實是人權管的工作嘛那我也看到 就是人權管從2012年到現在你也可以看到這張表格我們它的人權推廣活動的補助預算占整體的比例是逐年下降那我想要了解這個原因是什麼如果我們在 因為其實我也知道有非常多是既有 其實也沒有任何爭議的但是我現在看到我們相關的內容其實還是非常的少\n這是第一個,比例經費的下降第二個,不易移植的教案從2019年之後時光就凍結了沒有再更新而且高中、國中、國小都只有一個教案那我覺得在對活化這件事情是相對的不積極所以我想要了解說我們有沒有更積極的方式從第一個先幫我解釋一下預算的部分然後還有做法\n根文說明對於不移植的教案這個部分其實要繼續的開發中我們這個部分一定會積極來做提升不會讓它停留在只有三個教案那至於補助案的部分據我的了解是這樣因為它的補助案它會因為補助的需求跟項目而減少\n但是它的經費其實整體經費並沒有減少它可能用在自辦或者是像自辦旅行這一類的方式人權小旅行這一類的方式或者是做人權這個巡迴車的這個推廣所以它不一定是以補助的形式展現但是如果有哪些做人權的但是我們因為沒有補助而導致它沒有辦法進行推動的也請委員不吝提供我們這樣的資訊我們會非常樂意來進行這一類的補助\n好,因為我想要,因為你剛剛講的那些部分,可能有部分是用促轉基金做的,對嗎?但是因為這個促轉基金到底有多少的預算可不可以也提供給我們?因為我們之前還沒有拿到,之前有跟你們說一句啦,那之後再匯報補給我們。好,因為促轉基金是每年申請的,所以它的額度也都不相同。\n對對對那我就說你們從去年開始有申請嘛對不對那這個實際的金額也提供給我們但是我想說促轉基金之外我覺得我們可以回到這一張來看我們人權推廣補助案整體的經費的確是下降的但是你剛剛有說有些是自辦的那這些費用也相關的一起整理給我們我們來看看到底\n民間是有在回應就是說他們覺得補助案的金變少了我們來請人權管做一個總整理好那再來就是說我想了解因為剛剛有講到教案可以來積極的處理那我想要了解大概規劃進度是何時我們一樣可以提供給委員我們的規劃進度因為這個教案的部分是我們主力的在做人權推廣的一個主要的內容\n因為他們現在做的是比較多是把原有的教案複製提供給更多的學校那至於在內容的充實上我想這就是我們持續來進行就是除了去擴散學校以外同時也在內容上增加更多的教案對 因為我這個這件事情我真的非常的希望大家可以重視啦因為其實這個教案就是提供給老師們或是家長們可以讓在家裡或在學校裡自己操作嘛可是如果都只有一個案子的話變成它操作性上面難度非常高可能要有不同的地點\n中正紀念堂教案\n我過去在民間都有在做這件事情那我今天要講這個中正紀念堂就是當時我做這個教案我們邀請了一些來自於深藍家庭的或是外省第二代的家庭那他們聽完我們的故事之後呢他就講了這一段話我覺得非常的重要就是說他雖然很早就知道講中正的真實版本但當時改名叫自由廣場的時候他會覺得是不是太沒事早事做了\n改的名字也沒有原來的響亮畢竟他是外省第二代但是那天他聽我們講完這整個走讀的故事之後他突然覺得改名真的很重要所以希望這裡可以成為一個兼具歷史有意義的又親民的一個場地所以這個教案其實就是在幫我們做很多很多民間的鬆動跟鄰居民間的共識讓不同的視角可以一起來對話\n所以這件事情真的是非常需要積極的來做所以相關的一些計畫規劃的內容我們就在會後約個時間來詳細討論好嗎?好那最後抱歉就是我快快講一句就是說中正紀念談因為剛剛其實大家有非常多的爭議在講這個衛兵的這個交接的這個儀式到如何進行那我這邊也可以提供一個想法啦供部長來參考就是說\n當然要對威權致敬這是一個非常荒謬的事情那現在大家討論說但是它又是一個很重要的觀光的一個儀式就很像是可能白金漢宮啊大陸這種儀式大家想要去看但是我覺得我們是不是就應該把它定定為它就是一個觀光的表演就是大家也可以來思考是不是就是一個觀光的表演\n提供給部長來做個參考\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.369 --> 00:00.789\n張雅琳委員\n\n00:17.827 --> 00:36.495\n部長早安首先我在這次看金曲獎的時候我在看到這個表演的時候有這個臺文而且是正字正確的我其實真的非常感到高興但很不幸的在接下來我又看到了另外一個片段同樣一段的表演\n\n00:37.475 --> 00:52.041\n就出現了快快快臨舊賣K孩賣K孩這個正字應該要寫成是這個樣子所以我想要了解就是說其實因為\n\n00:53.188 --> 01:21.888\n文化部因為其實大家其他的語言都有相關的組織單位那文化部是台語唯一的組織單位是非常需要大家來謹慎的照顧我們的台語所以我只是在想在我們這個台語的歌詞雖然它是可能是老歌的歌詞大家過去對台文不了解可能也沒有那個機會學習所以會用可能空耳或是火星文或是我們自己認為的語言去把它拼寫出來但是因為我們現在都在推廣台文了\n\n01:23.169 --> 01:47.346\n我們在這樣大型的典禮其實也是一個很好的宣傳機會我們是不是應該要來確保我們寫出來的臺文是正確的嘛我們才能讓大家知道臺語也是有語言的才不會出現像之前可能有委員質詢這個問題嘛所以我在想請教育院接下來還有金鐘跟金馬我們是不是可以記取這次的教訓我有兩個建議第一個我們是不是可以因為我們已經有專家學者治療庫了\n\n01:48.046 --> 01:48.686\n部長,您的看法如何?\n\n02:09.096 --> 02:35.792\n因為這個部分涉及到那個原作者他用的一些著作權如果能夠溝通比如說跟他講說你願不願意改他如果願意改我想就我們就改因為剛剛委員提到這個用字用語沒有一個標準這個我們剛好最近文化部成立一個國家語言發展研究中心想要做的事情可能就這一部分是一個蠻重要的部分就是各種不同的語言它的\n\n02:36.789 --> 02:36.929\n張雅琳\n\n02:50.030 --> 03:19.453\n傳播會很快所以委員剛剛講的部分我想未來我們來商量一下如果覺得他用字不對我們可以跟他討論這樣我想兩個方向就是說我們提供協助提供正確的歌詞那如果原作者還是希望堅持他自己的原作詞我也支持但是我希望在他原作詞下面我們可以做個括號像我們可能之前在有一些的方式我們問個括號去把正確的詞也寫在下面讓大家去理解到說原來正確是這樣子寫好不好那就是我們\n\n03:19.633 --> 03:20.093\n112年已經送進行政院審訊\n\n03:37.094 --> 03:56.552\n這一個字不易以止我想要了解就是說已經也一年了大概什麼時候呢我們會送進立法院來做審查呢好據我所知已經送到立法院了那詳細情況行政院對不起我們說到行政院還不到立法院然後請那個承辦這個整個事情比較了解的黃社長來跟你報告\n\n04:00.287 --> 04:28.359\n跟委員說明其實後來在去年5月9號之後大概我們在跟行政院由政委來主持會又經過了幾次的條文的修正所以在去年的12月28號有修到最後的版本進到行政院那後來行政院跟立法院應該是在協調立法院排案的進度那這個部分我們大概就尊重行政院協調的結果所以什麼時候會排進立法院大概還是要看行政院跟貴院協調的的最終時程來定定\n\n04:29.019 --> 04:55.744\n好我了解那我想就是說因為其實我們之前其實也有跟文資局來做一些討論那他就有講到不義遺址因為其實在之前的轉型正義突轉會的時代大家就一直有講這件事情非常的重要如何保留這個不義遺址來做一些人權教育來活化這些基地都是傳承台灣過去這一個過程的一個歷史那但是當時文資局告訴我們說就是說因為不義遺址他沒有辦法因為在現在的他沒有遺構\n\n04:56.704 --> 05:20.113\n他也沒有見誤這種狀況他很難去認定他是一個不移植他很難做一些活化保存應該是這樣講所以他非常需要這個專法可是現在聽起來我又沒有這個專法那我們針對這些潛在的不移植現在還有這麼多處我們已經有相關的審議會議來做審定他的資格沒有錯但是呢到底我們要如何來活化他呢我們沒有相關的一個計畫\n\n05:21.594 --> 05:39.069\n不然就會變成爹不疼娘不愛她變成一個孤兒到底誰來照顧她可是她就日漸的凋零所以我現在是看到就是說我們是不是可以有一些相關的計畫的方式或者是用一些要點管理要點的方式來做這個相關的活化的工作呢\n\n05:39.389 --> 06:04.462\n跟委員說明大概分成幾個部分第一個是已經審定的不移植42處那這42處因為已經建立了它的已經指定了已經確定它是不移植所以這個部分是以內容的充實史料的完整來為主那第二部分所謂潛在的部分那潛在的部分雖然不移植的這個法案還沒有通過但是我們開始進行所謂的預審我們就先把這些潛在的不移植有可能應該是變成不移植再做審定\n\n06:04.562 --> 06:31.423\n但是活化的工作身份有但是活化的工作呢現在的問題是因為現在的不移植分屬於不同的地方譬如說它如果是公有的譬如說有的像這一次在臺南的民生綠園那裡也有一個它現在就在使用的狀態就比較沒有活化的問題那有一些譬如它在國防的機敏地帶那它就有沒有辦法活化的問題那有一些是在私人的部分那它就也有說它可能不願意讓大家知道這是所謂的不移植還要進行溝通\n\n06:33.104 --> 06:57.766\n這是一部分的問題,但是既有一些是比如說像集美人權園區或者是像安康接待所像這些我們就是已經把它列入所謂活化的內容就是說我們把它變成是人權園區或者是像綠島人權園區這些其實也都是所謂的不義遺址所以它大概有分不同的階段如果是公有的沒有爭議的然後已經被審定的歷史的資料也相對完整的這個大概就會進入首部的活化\n\n06:58.426 --> 07:24.486\n好沒關係我了解齁我了解喔但是我想那我們就直接進到這一個就是說因為相關的工作其實是人權管的工作嘛那我也看到就是人權管從2012年到現在你也可以看到這張表格我們它的人權推廣活動的補助預算占整體的比例是逐年下降那我想要了解這個原因是什麼如果我們在因為其實我也知道有非常多是既有其實也沒有任何爭議的但是我現在看到我們相關的內容其實還是非常的少\n\n07:25.527 --> 07:46.287\n這是第一個,比例經費的下降第二個,不易移植的教案從2019年之後時光就凍結了沒有再更新而且高中、國中、國小都只有一個教案那我覺得在對活化這件事情是相對的不積極所以我想要了解說我們有沒有更積極的方式從第一個先幫我解釋一下預算的部分然後還有做法\n\n07:47.228 --> 08:02.723\n根文說明對於不移植的教案這個部分其實要繼續的開發中我們這個部分一定會積極來做提升不會讓它停留在只有三個教案那至於補助案的部分據我的了解是這樣因為它的補助案它會因為補助的需求跟項目而減少\n\n08:03.664 --> 08:26.933\n但是它的經費其實整體經費並沒有減少它可能用在自辦或者是像自辦旅行這一類的方式人權小旅行這一類的方式或者是做人權這個巡迴車的這個推廣所以它不一定是以補助的形式展現但是如果有哪些做人權的但是我們因為沒有補助而導致它沒有辦法進行推動的也請委員不吝提供我們這樣的資訊我們會非常樂意來進行這一類的補助\n\n08:29.574 --> 08:46.936\n好,因為我想要,因為你剛剛講的那些部分,可能有部分是用促轉基金做的,對嗎?但是因為這個促轉基金到底有多少的預算可不可以也提供給我們?因為我們之前還沒有拿到,之前有跟你們說一句啦,那之後再匯報補給我們。好,因為促轉基金是每年申請的,所以它的額度也都不相同。\n\n08:47.656 --> 09:04.373\n對對對那我就說你們從去年開始有申請嘛對不對那這個實際的金額也提供給我們但是我想說促轉基金之外我覺得我們可以回到這一張來看我們人權推廣補助案整體的經費的確是下降的但是你剛剛有說有些是自辦的那這些費用也相關的一起整理給我們我們來看看到底\n\n09:06.174 --> 09:26.081\n民間是有在回應就是說他們覺得補助案的金變少了我們來請人權管做一個總整理好那再來就是說我想了解因為剛剛有講到教案可以來積極的處理那我想要了解大概規劃進度是何時我們一樣可以提供給委員我們的規劃進度因為這個教案的部分是我們主力的在做人權推廣的一個主要的內容\n\n09:26.991 --> 09:54.926\n因為他們現在做的是比較多是把原有的教案複製提供給更多的學校那至於在內容的充實上我想這就是我們持續來進行就是除了去擴散學校以外同時也在內容上增加更多的教案對因為我這個這件事情我真的非常的希望大家可以重視啦因為其實這個教案就是提供給老師們或是家長們可以讓在家裡或在學校裡自己操作嘛可是如果都只有一個案子的話變成它操作性上面難度非常高可能要有不同的地點\n\n09:56.647 --> 09:57.407\n中正紀念堂教案\n\n10:21.234 --> 10:44.683\n我過去在民間都有在做這件事情那我今天要講這個中正紀念堂就是當時我做這個教案我們邀請了一些來自於深藍家庭的或是外省第二代的家庭那他們聽完我們的故事之後呢他就講了這一段話我覺得非常的重要就是說他雖然很早就知道講中正的真實版本但當時改名叫自由廣場的時候他會覺得是不是太沒事早事做了\n\n10:46.072 --> 11:08.927\n改的名字也沒有原來的響亮畢竟他是外省第二代但是那天他聽我們講完這整個走讀的故事之後他突然覺得改名真的很重要所以希望這裡可以成為一個兼具歷史有意義的又親民的一個場地所以這個教案其實就是在幫我們做很多很多民間的鬆動跟鄰居民間的共識讓不同的視角可以一起來對話\n\n11:10.788 --> 11:34.547\n所以這件事情真的是非常需要積極的來做所以相關的一些計畫規劃的內容我們就在會後約個時間來詳細討論好嗎?好那最後抱歉就是我快快講一句就是說中正紀念談因為剛剛其實大家有非常多的爭議在講這個衛兵的這個交接的這個儀式到如何進行那我這邊也可以提供一個想法啦供部長來參考就是說\n\n11:36.768 --> 11:57.785\n當然要對威權致敬這是一個非常荒謬的事情那現在大家討論說但是它又是一個很重要的觀光的一個儀式就很像是可能白金漢宮啊大陸這種儀式大家想要去看但是我覺得我們是不是就應該把它定定為它就是一個觀光的表演就是大家也可以來思考是不是就是一個觀光的表演\n\n11:58.725 --> 11:59.005\n提供給部長來做個參考\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.369,"end":0.789,"text":"張雅琳委員"},{"start":17.827,"end":36.495,"text":"部長早安首先我在這次看金曲獎的時候我在看到這個表演的時候有這個臺文而且是正字正確的我其實真的非常感到高興但很不幸的在接下來我又看到了另外一個片段同樣一段的表演"},{"start":37.475,"end":52.041,"text":"就出現了快快快臨舊賣K孩賣K孩這個正字應該要寫成是這個樣子所以我想要了解就是說其實因為"},{"start":53.188,"end":81.888,"text":"文化部因為其實大家其他的語言都有相關的組織單位那文化部是台語唯一的組織單位是非常需要大家來謹慎的照顧我們的台語所以我只是在想在我們這個台語的歌詞雖然它是可能是老歌的歌詞大家過去對台文不了解可能也沒有那個機會學習所以會用可能空耳或是火星文或是我們自己認為的語言去把它拼寫出來但是因為我們現在都在推廣台文了"},{"start":83.169,"end":107.346,"text":"我們在這樣大型的典禮其實也是一個很好的宣傳機會我們是不是應該要來確保我們寫出來的臺文是正確的嘛我們才能讓大家知道臺語也是有語言的才不會出現像之前可能有委員質詢這個問題嘛所以我在想請教育院接下來還有金鐘跟金馬我們是不是可以記取這次的教訓我有兩個建議第一個我們是不是可以因為我們已經有專家學者治療庫了"},{"start":108.046,"end":108.686,"text":"部長,您的看法如何?"},{"start":129.096,"end":155.792,"text":"因為這個部分涉及到那個原作者他用的一些著作權如果能夠溝通比如說跟他講說你願不願意改他如果願意改我想就我們就改因為剛剛委員提到這個用字用語沒有一個標準這個我們剛好最近文化部成立一個國家語言發展研究中心想要做的事情可能就這一部分是一個蠻重要的部分就是各種不同的語言它的"},{"start":156.789,"end":156.929,"text":"張雅琳"},{"start":170.03,"end":199.453,"text":"傳播會很快所以委員剛剛講的部分我想未來我們來商量一下如果覺得他用字不對我們可以跟他討論這樣我想兩個方向就是說我們提供協助提供正確的歌詞那如果原作者還是希望堅持他自己的原作詞我也支持但是我希望在他原作詞下面我們可以做個括號像我們可能之前在有一些的方式我們問個括號去把正確的詞也寫在下面讓大家去理解到說原來正確是這樣子寫好不好那就是我們"},{"start":199.633,"end":200.093,"text":"112年 已經送進行政院審訊"},{"start":217.094,"end":236.552,"text":"這一個字不易以止我想要了解就是說已經也一年了大概什麼時候呢我們會送進立法院來做審查呢好 據我所知已經送到立法院了那詳細情況行政院 對不起我們說到行政院還不到立法院然後請那個承辦這個整個事情比較了解的黃社長來跟你報告"},{"start":240.287,"end":268.359,"text":"跟委員說明其實後來在去年5月9號之後大概我們在跟行政院由政委來主持會又經過了幾次的條文的修正所以在去年的12月28號有修到最後的版本進到行政院那後來行政院跟立法院應該是在協調立法院排案的進度那這個部分我們大概就尊重行政院協調的結果所以什麼時候會排進立法院大概還是要看行政院跟貴院協調的的最終時程來定定"},{"start":269.019,"end":295.744,"text":"好 我了解那我想就是說因為其實我們之前其實也有跟文資局來做一些討論那他就有講到不義遺址因為其實在之前的轉型正義 突轉會的時代大家就一直有講這件事情非常的重要如何保留這個不義遺址來做一些人權教育來活化這些基地都是傳承台灣過去這一個過程的一個歷史那但是當時文資局告訴我們說就是說因為不義遺址他沒有辦法因為在現在的他沒有遺構"},{"start":296.704,"end":320.113,"text":"他也沒有見誤這種狀況他很難去認定他是一個不移植他很難做一些活化保存應該是這樣講所以他非常需要這個專法可是現在聽起來我又沒有這個專法那我們針對這些潛在的不移植現在還有這麼多處我們已經有相關的審議會議來做審定他的資格沒有錯但是呢到底我們要如何來活化他呢我們沒有相關的一個計畫"},{"start":321.594,"end":339.069,"text":"不然就會變成爹不疼娘不愛她變成一個孤兒到底誰來照顧她可是她就日漸的凋零所以我現在是看到就是說我們是不是可以有一些相關的計畫的方式或者是用一些要點管理要點的方式來做這個相關的活化的工作呢"},{"start":339.389,"end":364.462,"text":"跟委員說明大概分成幾個部分第一個是已經審定的不移植42處那這42處因為已經建立了它的已經指定了已經確定它是不移植所以這個部分是以內容的充實史料的完整來為主那第二部分所謂潛在的部分那潛在的部分雖然不移植的這個法案還沒有通過但是我們開始進行所謂的預審我們就先把這些潛在的不移植有可能應該是變成不移植再做審定"},{"start":364.562,"end":391.423,"text":"但是活化的工作 身份有但是活化的工作呢現在的問題是因為現在的不移植分屬於不同的地方譬如說它如果是公有的譬如說有的像這一次在臺南的民生綠園那裡也有一個它現在就在使用的狀態就比較沒有活化的問題那有一些譬如它在國防的機敏地帶那它就有沒有辦法活化的問題那有一些是在私人的部分那它就也有說它可能不願意讓大家知道這是所謂的不移植還要進行溝通"},{"start":393.104,"end":417.766,"text":"這是一部分的問題,但是既有一些是比如說像集美人權園區或者是像安康接待所像這些我們就是已經把它列入所謂活化的內容就是說我們把它變成是人權園區或者是像綠島人權園區這些其實也都是所謂的不義遺址所以它大概有分不同的階段如果是公有的沒有爭議的然後已經被審定的歷史的資料也相對完整的這個大概就會進入首部的活化"},{"start":418.426,"end":444.486,"text":"好 沒關係 我了解齁 我了解喔但是我想 那我們就直接進到這一個就是說因為相關的工作其實是人權管的工作嘛那我也看到 就是人權管從2012年到現在你也可以看到這張表格我們它的人權推廣活動的補助預算占整體的比例是逐年下降那我想要了解這個原因是什麼如果我們在 因為其實我也知道有非常多是既有 其實也沒有任何爭議的但是我現在看到我們相關的內容其實還是非常的少"},{"start":445.527,"end":466.287,"text":"這是第一個,比例經費的下降第二個,不易移植的教案從2019年之後時光就凍結了沒有再更新而且高中、國中、國小都只有一個教案那我覺得在對活化這件事情是相對的不積極所以我想要了解說我們有沒有更積極的方式從第一個先幫我解釋一下預算的部分然後還有做法"},{"start":467.228,"end":482.723,"text":"根文說明對於不移植的教案這個部分其實要繼續的開發中我們這個部分一定會積極來做提升不會讓它停留在只有三個教案那至於補助案的部分據我的了解是這樣因為它的補助案它會因為補助的需求跟項目而減少"},{"start":483.664,"end":506.933,"text":"但是它的經費其實整體經費並沒有減少它可能用在自辦或者是像自辦旅行這一類的方式人權小旅行這一類的方式或者是做人權這個巡迴車的這個推廣所以它不一定是以補助的形式展現但是如果有哪些做人權的但是我們因為沒有補助而導致它沒有辦法進行推動的也請委員不吝提供我們這樣的資訊我們會非常樂意來進行這一類的補助"},{"start":509.574,"end":526.936,"text":"好,因為我想要,因為你剛剛講的那些部分,可能有部分是用促轉基金做的,對嗎?但是因為這個促轉基金到底有多少的預算可不可以也提供給我們?因為我們之前還沒有拿到,之前有跟你們說一句啦,那之後再匯報補給我們。好,因為促轉基金是每年申請的,所以它的額度也都不相同。"},{"start":527.656,"end":544.373,"text":"對對對那我就說你們從去年開始有申請嘛對不對那這個實際的金額也提供給我們但是我想說促轉基金之外我覺得我們可以回到這一張來看我們人權推廣補助案整體的經費的確是下降的但是你剛剛有說有些是自辦的那這些費用也相關的一起整理給我們我們來看看到底"},{"start":546.174,"end":566.081,"text":"民間是有在回應就是說他們覺得補助案的金變少了我們來請人權管做一個總整理好那再來就是說我想了解因為剛剛有講到教案可以來積極的處理那我想要了解大概規劃進度是何時我們一樣可以提供給委員我們的規劃進度因為這個教案的部分是我們主力的在做人權推廣的一個主要的內容"},{"start":566.991,"end":594.926,"text":"因為他們現在做的是比較多是把原有的教案複製提供給更多的學校那至於在內容的充實上我想這就是我們持續來進行就是除了去擴散學校以外同時也在內容上增加更多的教案對 因為我這個這件事情我真的非常的希望大家可以重視啦因為其實這個教案就是提供給老師們或是家長們可以讓在家裡或在學校裡自己操作嘛可是如果都只有一個案子的話變成它操作性上面難度非常高可能要有不同的地點"},{"start":596.647,"end":597.407,"text":"中正紀念堂教案"},{"start":621.234,"end":644.683,"text":"我過去在民間都有在做這件事情那我今天要講這個中正紀念堂就是當時我做這個教案我們邀請了一些來自於深藍家庭的或是外省第二代的家庭那他們聽完我們的故事之後呢他就講了這一段話我覺得非常的重要就是說他雖然很早就知道講中正的真實版本但當時改名叫自由廣場的時候他會覺得是不是太沒事早事做了"},{"start":646.072,"end":668.927,"text":"改的名字也沒有原來的響亮畢竟他是外省第二代但是那天他聽我們講完這整個走讀的故事之後他突然覺得改名真的很重要所以希望這裡可以成為一個兼具歷史有意義的又親民的一個場地所以這個教案其實就是在幫我們做很多很多民間的鬆動跟鄰居民間的共識讓不同的視角可以一起來對話"},{"start":670.788,"end":694.547,"text":"所以這件事情真的是非常需要積極的來做所以相關的一些計畫規劃的內容我們就在會後約個時間來詳細討論好嗎?好那最後抱歉就是我快快講一句就是說中正紀念談因為剛剛其實大家有非常多的爭議在講這個衛兵的這個交接的這個儀式到如何進行那我這邊也可以提供一個想法啦供部長來參考就是說"},{"start":696.768,"end":717.785,"text":"當然要對威權致敬這是一個非常荒謬的事情那現在大家討論說但是它又是一個很重要的觀光的一個儀式就很像是可能白金漢宮啊大陸這種儀式大家想要去看但是我覺得我們是不是就應該把它定定為它就是一個觀光的表演就是大家也可以來思考是不是就是一個觀光的表演"},{"start":718.725,"end":719.005,"text":"提供給部長來做個參考"}]}}}}