{"id":154497,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154497","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bd8c853df77311676f27d0a78c1009ae5ee8e3eb0bf88d021cab1e007f00cecbda5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"11:21:40 - 11:36:34","影片長度":"00:14:54","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「『文化資產保存法』施行40年有餘，修復體系翻新升級」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T11:21:40+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T11:36:34+08:00","duration":894,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":659,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（11時21分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：我們有請部長。"],["李部長遠：林委員你好。"],["林委員宜瑾：部長辛苦。部長，在上週二本席的總質詢裡，我有質詢顧立雄部長，他很明確地說國防部的態度就是三軍儀隊可以移到自由廣場，最終拍板的就是文化部，而且他強調國防部會完全地配合，在這樣的狀況之下，當然文化部的態度就是關鍵。我想藉這個機會，因為早上也很多委員都有垂詢，我藉這個機會也請部長來說明，第一個，三軍儀隊離開堂體是否已經是文化部的最終定案？第二個，三軍儀隊是不是會如同國防部的建議，改到自由廣場去操練？再來，文化部還會不會再思考，對於三軍儀隊有什麼其他的安排？部長。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝委員詢問這個問題。其實關於三軍儀隊要離開堂體之後，要用什麼方式操練，這件事情我們其實非常慎重地已經跟國防部開過很多次會議，然後路線怎麼走，要考慮到這些軍人的方便，還有觀光客的方便，還有要用什麼方式，在離開堂體之後要用什麼理由在外面操演等等，它都是一個非常慎重的儀式，但是我可以跟委員講，文化部的態度非常清楚，因為我們在一年前就已經設定了中正紀念堂轉型條例一定要做的幾個動作，包括去除威權、去除個人崇拜，所以我們的努力方向，這只是第一步，而且是非常確定一定要做，只是時間點本來是10月份要開會，我一再表示我們會更早做，這是我的態度。"],["林委員宜瑾：OK。不過部長，今天早上推動轉型正義會報的小組成員有跟我們辦公室透露文化部的最新規劃，就如同這個圖一樣，我想堂體不再設置禮兵執行的衛哨，操演會移到戶外來進行，而且比照忠烈祠的模式，遇雨就取消勤務。我想這個規劃看起來還蠻清楚的，我是困惑既然文化部是主管機關，而且早就規劃好了，為什麼還要推給行政院推動轉型正義會報來同意？據中正紀念堂轉型推動專案小組，他們其實也早在去年就已經對儀隊的撤離做成決議，不是嗎？所以我想請部長說明，文化部對於這樣的規劃，你們未來真的還要再送所謂的轉型會報嗎？還是你們自己就可以決定這件事情，交代國防部去實施？"],["李部長遠：這個路線連我都沒有清楚，我覺得可能是裡面有些人的想法，像這個路線，我是文化部長，我都不知道這是最後定案，但是我知道的是……"],["林委員宜瑾：沒有，這或許是規劃啦！是規劃。"],["李部長遠：對，它可能是規劃之一啦。"],["林委員宜瑾：是，最新的規劃。"],["李部長遠：因為我希望這次做完之後，就維持這個狀態，不要再改來改去。"],["林委員宜瑾：當然。"],["李部長遠：所以它必須是要國防部本身也接受，文化部也接受，然後我還要考慮到觀光客，還有民眾的權益，我全部要考慮進去之後，想選擇一個非常妥當的方式，可是這個東西文化部的確沒有決定權，因為我們必須開一個由行政院主持的轉型會議。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，這個轉型正義會報其實在去年，很多的成員都已經決議所謂的三軍儀隊，確實是要撤離堂體這件事情，所以這個已經是決議的事情，沒有被決議？"],["李部長遠：好像在一年前有這個決議，然後半年後沒有結論，可見這件事情是非常難的，就是它決議後很難執行，所以經過兩次會議，我自己去翻閱上一次會議是沒有結論，到我們開始了，國防部表達它有不堅持的一個可能的時候，我們才可能往下做，所以我是非常感謝國防部說他們不堅持了，給了我們文化部一個可能性，這個過程中，我們其實來來回回開了很多次會，路線怎麼走，推翻了再改過來，其實就表示我們真的要做了，但是又希望做到讓大家都比較能接受的。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，那就是照9月份送轉型正義會報……"],["李部長遠：也許不用到9月啦，因為我心裡也蠻急的，這樣的題目，你如果一直講，但是又沒有做，會引起更大的反彈，所以我心裡面會希望越快越好。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，我贊成部長您這樣講，因為說真的，這個轉型正義會報的成員，到8月就已經到期，9月是新的成員……"],["李部長遠：又換一批。"],["林委員宜瑾：可是我們過去都是這些舊的成員在討論這件事情最清楚，所以如果這件事情拖到9月讓新的成員去決定，我看可能……所以還是儘快最好。"],["李部長遠：我會儘快。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。另外我們回到今天的專報主題，有關文資修復，臺南火車站原本預計今年的6月要辦理新的修復工程的發包，預計2025年底要完工。部長，目前不曉得進度如何？再來，如果沒有辦法如期發包，那麼到底困境在哪裡？有信心在2025年完工嗎？因為這件事情拖很久，如果遲遲沒有辦法辦理建築師的設計、監造，或者營造廠的發包，最後文化部有打算要接手嗎？因為目前都是臺鐵的事，可是臺鐵對於文資修復真的很外行，所以這件事情要如何處理？部長。"],["李部長遠：好，文資修復是一個非常重要的事情，因為修復的那個能力，還有能不能回到原來那個樣子，其實不能夠很草率地做，所以時常有延遲，或者是把它停掉，再重新發包，細節……"],["林委員宜瑾：當然，可是這件事拖好久了。"],["李部長遠：這個案子，我想請文資局局長跟您回復。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，局長。"],["陳局長濟民：委員，我先提一下，這個案子，我們文化部從它停工到現在，在行政的協調、專業的諮詢，還有我們行政的協處上面，我們盡了很大的力量，尤其像上個月，我們就有兩次找專家學者現勘，它現在的問題是，第一個，結算的部分有送到文化部的審議會裡面，審議會還有一些意見要退請它再修正。另外，我們也在上個月有找專家學者現勘之後給它建議，希望它能夠先提出修復的原則，還有一些怎麼樣進行的方案，也都在持續進行，的確是比較慢，因為這種事情，只要是一終止，解除契約之後，後面的程序比較冗長，我們一定會盡全力來協助。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，實際上，關於臺南火車站的修復狀況，我也跟建築師公會做過很多的討論，建築師都認為其實癥結點還是在所謂的修復人才真的不夠，我想不僅修復人才不夠，整個的契約也應該合理化。去年11月2日本席有跟史哲部長在教文委員會討論過這個問題，公共工程技術服務契約的範本本來是採用總包價法，它在文資修復案件中會造成很多的屢約爭議，史哲部長當時有說文化部對於這項問題是有意識的，他認為文資修復工作就如同局長剛剛講的變數很大，無法一開始就精準地估量，通常是在進行中才發現這個設計要改，為了不讓建築師在那麼多的風險中接案工作，所以我們吸收第一線建築師的意見之後要修正契約範本。我想這個責任現在在李部長的身上，所以請教部長什麼時候可以對文資修復這種第一線狀況提出文資專用的勞務契約範本？部長，還是局長？"],["李部長遠：請局長回答。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。"],["陳局長濟民：報告委員，關於總包價法，我們在去年10月已經召開會議，也邀了全國建築師公會，還有各縣市政府，還有委員辦公室，您的同仁也有去，建築師公會原來想用建造百分比法，但是大家覺得有的時候建造百分比法比總包價法建築師拿到的經費還要少，後來我們在今年2月也邀集全國建築師公會商議，就照現有工程會的契約範本裡面增訂經費表的範本，用這種方式，我們在4月份已經把這個草案提供給全國建築師公會來參考，他們在5月、6月說，建築師公會內部還要再研商，然後再來跟文資局做進一步的洽商，所以我們在等他們對草案內容的意見。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。我想談到文資修復建築師的人才不足，首先真的很感謝文化部正視這樣的困境，所以在去年初文資修復課題的座談會上本席有提出一個構想，就是文化部挹注1,000萬，以5年為期，為我們國家培訓100個文資修復的建築師，上週接獲一個好消息，我們文資修復建築師的人才培訓終於邁向正軌，中斷了21年的建築師文資培訓計畫今天重獲銜接，在今天的書面報告中文化部也有提到，我們今年要開始籌辦古蹟規劃設計及監造培訓班，刻正著手辦理課綱、訓練制度的編擬，預計明年相關的課程就要上路。在這裡請教部長，上述的政策預計會辦理多少年？未來會常態性地來推動嗎？"],["李部長遠：這個應該絕對沒有問題，是要一直做，因為臺灣現在古蹟越來越多，人力不夠很嚴重，所以這個應該是常態，一定會編預算來做。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。我想文資修復建築師就是要鼓勵年輕人來投入，所以在這裡我也有個倡議，希望文化部來支持，就是修正「古蹟修復及再利用辦法」第十九條，明定領有建築師執照，並且在古蹟規劃設計及監造培訓班受過培訓的人員，就可以進行所謂的歷史建築、紀念建築以及文化景觀的修復及再利用，可以這樣來處理嗎？因為現在的規定是當然修歷史建築是不需要任何的資格，可是地方政府都會害怕，所以還是都會讓有資格的人來招標，可是問題卡在這樣子的話就會一直延宕，常常發包不出去，所以如果有參加這個培訓班的人是不是就可以有資格來進行修復？"],["李部長遠：是，這點沒有問題，因為我們也看到那個嚴重性，所以未來我們會朝著匠師分級制，他也不一定要做到有執照那個程度就可以投入這個現場，因為我們後來瞭解現場也有蠻多人沒有執照，可是他會做，所以這些問題我們文資局都掌握得很清楚，委員剛才講的這條就是我們未來一定會往這個方向去修法的。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝。","最後，不好意思！再一點點時間，還是要跟部長討論一下這次的金曲獎，我想從麥克風的沒有聲音到臉書小編逐字稿的疏漏等等，剛剛幾乎每個委員都有垂詢過，表演者上臺第一次麥克風出現問題已經很扯，可是換過之後居然還沒有聲音，這種流行音樂的盛事發生這種低級錯誤，還中斷歌手的表演，整段重來，我覺得音樂人看了都很心痛！也覺得丟盡了臺灣身為科技大國的國家顏面。","部長，這次金曲獎的負責公司成音工程設備，據很多音樂人反映，無論是器材的更新、保養或者技術人員，過去都出現很多很多的問題，並不是這一次金曲獎才出包，他們在業界早就被大家頭痛許久，所以是不是要有實質的改革作為？特別是我在這邊再強調一下，這次我們委託的穩立音響，它以前是一個非常大的廠商，幾十年過去了，他們確實對他們的器材也好、技術人才也好，都沒有做更新，所以他們很多技術人才都流失，他們的品質維持已經是沒有辦法，可是為什麼還是會標到案？因為他們都低價去標，可是你看接了案子，然後搞砸了，所以我覺得這個事情可能要再好好地做檢討，我覺得這個事情出包確實是一個很大的遺憾！部長。"],["李部長遠：沒問題，其實我們已經非常快地跟台視方面談了，一定會深切地檢討，因為這個問題的確是非常嚴重，我們也跟台視之間有合約等等，這也會作為我們下一次再做類似標案的參考。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["林委員宜瑾：謝謝主席。"],["主席（林委員宜瑾）：現在請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-18","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林德福","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","陳秀寳","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","范雲","鄭天財Sra 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0.744}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 870.131, \"end\": 870.571, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 870.571, \"end\": 870.712, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 870.712, \"end\": 870.732, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,118 --> 00:00:03,980\n李委員你好部長辛苦部長在上週二本席的總質詢裡我質詢顧林雄部長那他很明確的說國防部的態度就是三軍一隊可以移到自由廣場那最終拍板的就是文化部\n\n2\n00:00:29,019 --> 00:00:57,839\n那我想而且要強調國防部會完全的配合那在這樣的狀況之下當然文化部的態度就是關鍵喔那我想藉這個機會因為早上有很多的委員都有垂詢就藉這個機會也請部長來說明就第一個三軍儀隊離開堂體是否已經是文化部的最終定案那第二個就是說三軍儀隊是不是會如同國防部的建議改到自由廣場去操練那再來就是說文化部\n\n3\n00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,334\n還會不會再思考對於三軍一隊有什麼其他的安排?部長\n\n4\n00:01:07,690 --> 00:01:30,199\n其實關於三菁儀隊要離開堂體之後他要用什麼方式操練這件事情我們其實非常慎重的已經跟國防部開過很多次會議然後那個路線怎麼走要考慮到本身這些軍人的方便還有觀光客的方便還有他要用什麼方式在\n\n5\n00:01:30,979 --> 00:01:31,299\n李宜瑾議員\n\n6\n00:01:55,171 --> 00:01:55,251\n林宜瑾議員\n\n7\n00:02:10,311 --> 00:02:10,431\n李宜瑾議員\n\n8\n00:02:28,277 --> 00:02:46,558\n移到戶外來進行．而且比照鍾列慈的模式．予以就取消勤務我想這個規劃看起來還蠻清楚的那我是困惑的是說那既然文化部是主管機關．而且早就規劃好了那為什麼還要推給行政院推動轉型正義匯報來做同意\n\n9\n00:02:50,221 --> 00:03:03,965\n中正紀念堂轉型推動專案小組他們其實也早在去年就已經對於儀隊的撤離做成決議喔不是嗎所以我想請部長說明說文化部對於這樣的\n\n10\n00:03:06,588 --> 00:03:17,705\n規劃那你們未來就是真的還要再送所謂的轉型匯報嗎那還是說你們自己就可以來決定這件事情然後來交代國防部去實施\n\n11\n00:03:20,931 --> 00:03:46,014\n這個路線連我都沒有清楚我覺得可能是裡面有些人的想法像這個路線我是文化部長我都不知道這是最後定案這或許是規劃是規劃它可能是規劃之一最新的規劃就是因為我希望這次做完之後就維持這個狀態不要再改來改去所以必須是要國安部本身也接受文化部也\n\n12\n00:03:46,815 --> 00:03:46,875\n林宜瑾議員\n\n13\n00:04:05,983 --> 00:04:27,841\n對這個轉型正義會報其實在去年就是很多的成員都已經決議就是說所謂的這個三軍一隊居使是要撤離堂體這件事情那所以這個已經是決議的事情沒有被決議好像在一年前有這個決議然後半年後沒有結論可見這件事情是非常難的他決議後很難執行所以經過兩次會議\n\n14\n00:04:34,710 --> 00:04:37,559\n我自己去翻閱上一次會議是沒有結論\n\n15\n00:04:39,235 --> 00:05:05,948\n上一次會議沒有結論到了我們開始國防部表達說他有不堅持的一個可能的時候我們才可能往下做所以我是非常感謝國防部說他們不堅持了給了我們文化部一個可能性那這個過程中我們其實來來回回開了很多次會路線怎麼走推翻了再改過來其實就表示我們真的要做了但是又希望做到一個大家都能比較能接受的\n\n16\n00:05:06,448 --> 00:05:21,609\n好,那就是照9月份送轉型這一位吧?也許不用到9月啦,因為我心裡也蠻急的,因為這樣的題目你如果一直講但是又沒有做,會引起更大的一個反彈,所以我心裡面會希望越快越好。\n\n17\n00:05:22,570 --> 00:05:45,829\n我贊成部長這樣講因為說真的這個轉型正義匯報的成員到8月就已經到期那9月是一個新的成員我們過去都是這些舊的成員在討論這件事情最清楚所以如果說這件事情拖好9月讓新的成員去決定那我看可能所以還是儘快最好我會儘快\n\n18\n00:05:48,251 --> 00:05:50,773\n臺南火車站原本預計今年的6月要辦理新的修復工程的發包那預計2025年底要完工\n\n19\n00:06:03,382 --> 00:06:19,695\n目前部長不曉得進度如何那再來就是說那如果沒有辦法如期發包那到底困境在哪裡那有信心在2025完工嗎因為這件事情拖很久那如果遲遲沒有辦法辦理建築師的這個設計、建造或者營造廠的這個發包那最後\n\n20\n00:06:25,319 --> 00:06:45,051\n文化部有打算要接手嗎?因為現在目前都是台鐵的事可是台鐵對於文資修復真的很外行那所以這件事情要如何處理?部長因為文資修復是一個非常重要的事情因為它修復的那個能力還有能不能回到原來那個樣子其實不能夠很草率地做所以會事實上有那個\n\n21\n00:06:46,451 --> 00:06:51,575\n尤其像上個月我們就有兩次找了專家學者現行他現在的問題就是第一個他結算的部分\n\n22\n00:07:15,011 --> 00:07:36,262\n有送到文化部的審議會裡面審議會還有一些意見要退請他再修正另外我們也在上個月有找專家學者現勘之後給他建議希望他能夠先提出修復的原則還有一些怎麼樣進行的方案也都在持續進行的確是比較慢因為這種事情只要是終止結束契約之後後面的程序比較冗長我們一定會盡全力來協助\n\n23\n00:07:39,744 --> 00:07:59,497\n實際上關於台南火車站的修復狀況我也跟建築師公會做過很多的討論那建築師都認為其實增結的點還是在所謂修復人才真的不夠那我想不僅修復人才不夠整個的契約也應該合理化去年11月2號本席有跟史哲部長在教育委員會討論過這個問題公共工程技術服務契約的範本\n\n24\n00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:25,658\n本來是採用總包價法在這個文資修復案件中會造成很多的履約爭議那使則部長當時有說文化部對這項問題是有意識的那所以他認為文資修復工作就如同局長剛剛講的變數很大那無法一開始就精準的估量\n\n25\n00:08:26,098 --> 00:08:26,398\n請局長回答\n\n26\n00:08:56,223 --> 00:09:18,860\n總包價法,我們在去年10月已經召開會議,邀請了全國建築師公會,還有各縣市政府,還有委員辦公室,您的同仁也有去。大家後來發覺說,總包價法,有一些建築師公會原來想要用建造百分比法,但是大家覺得有的時候建造百分比法比總包價法建築師拿到的金錢還要少。\n\n27\n00:09:19,580 --> 00:09:38,553\n後來我們在今年2月也邀集全國建築師公會也在商議就照現有的工程會的契約範本裡面增訂經費表的範本用這種方式那這種方式我們已經有把這個草案在4月份已經提供給全國建築師公會參考\n\n28\n00:09:40,174 --> 00:09:41,515\n我想談到文資修復的建築師的人才不足\n\n29\n00:09:56,591 --> 00:10:19,609\n首先真的要很感謝文化部正式這樣的困境所以在去年初在那個文資修復的這個課題座談會上那本席有提出的構想就是說文化部預注一千萬那以五年為期那為我們國家培訓一百個文資修復的建築師那上週接獲一個好消息那就是我們文資修復建築師人才培訓的問題終於已經邁向正軌那中斷了21年的這個建築師的文資培訓計畫\n\n30\n00:10:27,014 --> 00:10:28,754\n上述政策預計會辦理多少年?未來會常態性推動嗎?\n\n31\n00:10:52,594 --> 00:10:54,617\n我想文資修復建築師就是要鼓勵年輕人來投入\n\n32\n00:11:11,978 --> 00:11:28,275\n所以在這裡我也有個倡議就是說希望文化部來支持那就是修正這個古蹟修復及再利用辦法第19條我們明定領有建築師執照並且在古蹟修復設計及建造培訓班受過培訓的\n\n33\n00:11:29,116 --> 00:11:29,536\n林宜瑾議員林宜瑾議員\n\n34\n00:11:56,328 --> 00:11:56,388\n林宜瑾議員\n\n35\n00:12:24,193 --> 00:12:24,313\nHOW?\n\n36\n00:12:39,155 --> 00:12:39,295\n林宜瑾\n\n37\n00:12:58,755 --> 00:13:21,543\n表演者上台第一次麥克風出現問題已經很扯可是換過之後居然還沒有聲音我想流行音樂這種盛世發生這種低級錯誤那中段歌手的表演整段重來我覺得這個很多音樂人看了都很心痛那也覺得丟盡了台灣身為科技大國的這個國家顏面部長我想這一次的金曲獎\n\n38\n00:13:22,843 --> 00:13:41,357\n陳英工程設備的負責公司據很多音樂人反映說無論是器材的更新保養或者技術人員過去都出現很多的問題這並不是這一次金曲榜才出發他們早在業界就被大家頭痛許久\n\n39\n00:13:41,957 --> 00:13:42,217\n林宜瑾議員\n\n40\n00:14:04,924 --> 00:14:28,782\n品質的維持已經是沒有辦法可是為什麼還是會標到案因為他們都用低價去標到可是你看這個案子搞砸了所以我覺得這個事情可能要再好好的做檢討那是不是我們要要求這整個業界要針對這個事情我覺得這個事情出包確實是一個很大的遺憾\n\n41\n00:14:30,051 --> 00:14:30,732\n主席謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1118\t3980\t李委員你好部長辛苦部長在上週二本席的總質詢裡我質詢顧林雄部長那他很明確的說國防部的態度就是三軍一隊可以移到自由廣場那最終拍板的就是文化部\n29019\t57839\t那我想而且要強調國防部會完全的配合那在這樣的狀況之下當然文化部的態度就是關鍵喔那我想藉這個機會因為早上有很多的委員都有垂詢就藉這個機會也請部長來說明就第一個三軍儀隊離開堂體是否已經是文化部的最終定案那第二個就是說三軍儀隊是不是會如同國防部的建議改到自由廣場去操練那再來就是說文化部\n58920\t63334\t還會不會再思考對於三軍一隊有什麼其他的安排?部長\n67690\t90199\t其實關於三菁儀隊要離開堂體之後他要用什麼方式操練這件事情我們其實非常慎重的已經跟國防部開過很多次會議然後那個路線怎麼走要考慮到本身這些軍人的方便還有觀光客的方便還有他要用什麼方式在\n90979\t91299\t李宜瑾議員\n115171\t115251\t林宜瑾議員\n130311\t130431\t李宜瑾議員\n148277\t166558\t移到戶外來進行．而且比照鍾列慈的模式．予以就取消勤務我想這個規劃看起來還蠻清楚的那我是困惑的是說那既然文化部是主管機關．而且早就規劃好了那為什麼還要推給行政院推動轉型正義匯報來做同意\n170221\t183965\t中正紀念堂轉型推動專案小組他們其實也早在去年就已經對於儀隊的撤離做成決議喔不是嗎所以我想請部長說明說文化部對於這樣的\n186588\t197705\t規劃那你們未來就是真的還要再送所謂的轉型匯報嗎那還是說你們自己就可以來決定這件事情然後來交代國防部去實施\n200931\t226014\t這個路線連我都沒有清楚我覺得可能是裡面有些人的想法像這個路線我是文化部長我都不知道這是最後定案這或許是規劃是規劃它可能是規劃之一最新的規劃就是因為我希望這次做完之後就維持這個狀態不要再改來改去所以必須是要國安部本身也接受文化部也\n226815\t226875\t林宜瑾議員\n245983\t267841\t對 這個轉型正義會報其實在去年就是很多的成員都已經決議就是說所謂的這個三軍一隊居使是要撤離堂體這件事情那所以這個已經是決議的事情沒有被決議好像在一年前有這個決議然後半年後沒有結論可見這件事情是非常難的他決議後很難執行所以經過兩次會議\n274710\t277559\t我自己去翻閱上一次會議是沒有結論\n279235\t305948\t上一次會議沒有結論到了我們開始國防部表達說他有不堅持的一個可能的時候我們才可能往下做所以我是非常感謝國防部說他們不堅持了給了我們文化部一個可能性那這個過程中我們其實來來回回開了很多次會路線怎麼走推翻了再改過來其實就表示我們真的要做了但是又希望做到一個大家都能比較能接受的\n306448\t321609\t好,那就是照9月份送轉型這一位吧?也許不用到9月啦,因為我心裡也蠻急的,因為這樣的題目你如果一直講但是又沒有做,會引起更大的一個反彈,所以我心裡面會希望越快越好。\n322570\t345829\t我贊成部長這樣講因為說真的這個轉型正義匯報的成員到8月就已經到期那9月是一個新的成員我們過去都是這些舊的成員在討論這件事情最清楚所以如果說這件事情拖好9月讓新的成員去決定那我看可能所以還是儘快最好我會儘快\n348251\t350773\t臺南火車站原本預計今年的6月要辦理新的修復工程的發包那預計2025年底要完工\n363382\t379695\t目前部長不曉得進度如何那再來就是說那如果沒有辦法如期發包那到底困境在哪裡那有信心在2025完工嗎因為這件事情拖很久那如果遲遲沒有辦法辦理建築師的這個設計、建造或者營造廠的這個發包那最後\n385319\t405051\t文化部有打算要接手嗎?因為現在目前都是台鐵的事可是台鐵對於文資修復真的很外行那所以這件事情要如何處理?部長因為文資修復是一個非常重要的事情因為它修復的那個能力還有能不能回到原來那個樣子其實不能夠很草率地做所以會事實上有那個\n406451\t411575\t尤其像上個月我們就有兩次找了專家學者現行他現在的問題就是第一個他結算的部分\n435011\t456262\t有送到文化部的審議會裡面審議會還有一些意見要退請他再修正另外我們也在上個月有找專家學者現勘之後給他建議希望他能夠先提出修復的原則還有一些怎麼樣進行的方案也都在持續進行的確是比較慢因為這種事情只要是終止結束契約之後後面的程序比較冗長我們一定會盡全力來協助\n459744\t479497\t實際上關於台南火車站的修復狀況我也跟建築師公會做過很多的討論那建築師都認為其實增結的點還是在所謂修復人才真的不夠那我想不僅修復人才不夠整個的契約也應該合理化去年11月2號本席有跟史哲部長在教育委員會討論過這個問題公共工程技術服務契約的範本\n485080\t505658\t本來是採用總包價法在這個文資修復案件中會造成很多的履約爭議那使則部長當時有說文化部對這項問題是有意識的那所以他認為文資修復工作就如同局長剛剛講的變數很大那無法一開始就精準的估量\n506098\t506398\t請局長回答\n536223\t558860\t總包價法,我們在去年10月已經召開會議,邀請了全國建築師公會,還有各縣市政府,還有委員辦公室,您的同仁也有去。大家後來發覺說,總包價法,有一些建築師公會原來想要用建造百分比法,但是大家覺得有的時候建造百分比法比總包價法建築師拿到的金錢還要少。\n559580\t578553\t後來我們在今年2月也邀集全國建築師公會也在商議就照現有的工程會的契約範本裡面增訂經費表的範本用這種方式那這種方式我們已經有把這個草案在4月份已經提供給全國建築師公會參考\n580174\t581515\t我想談到文資修復的建築師的人才不足\n596591\t619609\t首先真的要很感謝文化部正式這樣的困境所以在去年初在那個文資修復的這個課題座談會上那本席有提出的構想就是說文化部預注一千萬那以五年為期那為我們國家培訓一百個文資修復的建築師那上週接獲一個好消息那就是我們文資修復建築師人才培訓的問題終於已經邁向正軌那中斷了21年的這個建築師的文資培訓計畫\n627014\t628754\t上述政策預計會辦理多少年?未來會常態性推動嗎?\n652594\t654617\t我想文資修復建築師就是要鼓勵年輕人來投入\n671978\t688275\t所以在這裡我也有個倡議就是說希望文化部來支持那就是修正這個古蹟修復及再利用辦法第19條我們明定領有建築師執照並且在古蹟修復設計及建造培訓班受過培訓的\n689116\t689536\t林宜瑾議員林宜瑾議員\n716328\t716388\t林宜瑾議員\n744193\t744313\tHOW?\n759155\t759295\t林宜瑾\n778755\t801543\t表演者上台第一次麥克風出現問題已經很扯可是換過之後居然還沒有聲音我想流行音樂這種盛世發生這種低級錯誤那中段歌手的表演整段重來我覺得這個很多音樂人看了都很心痛那也覺得丟盡了台灣身為科技大國的這個國家顏面部長我想這一次的金曲獎\n802843\t821357\t陳英工程設備的負責公司據很多音樂人反映說無論是器材的更新保養或者技術人員過去都出現很多的問題這並不是這一次金曲榜才出發他們早在業界就被大家頭痛許久\n821957\t822217\t林宜瑾議員\n844924\t868782\t品質的維持已經是沒有辦法可是為什麼還是會標到案因為他們都用低價去標到可是你看這個案子搞砸了所以我覺得這個事情可能要再好好的做檢討那是不是我們要要求這整個業界要針對這個事情我覺得這個事情出包確實是一個很大的遺憾\n870051\t870732\t主席謝主席\n","txt":"李委員你好部長辛苦部長在上週二本席的總質詢裡我質詢顧林雄部長那他很明確的說國防部的態度就是三軍一隊可以移到自由廣場那最終拍板的就是文化部\n那我想而且要強調國防部會完全的配合那在這樣的狀況之下當然文化部的態度就是關鍵喔那我想藉這個機會因為早上有很多的委員都有垂詢就藉這個機會也請部長來說明就第一個三軍儀隊離開堂體是否已經是文化部的最終定案那第二個就是說三軍儀隊是不是會如同國防部的建議改到自由廣場去操練那再來就是說文化部\n還會不會再思考對於三軍一隊有什麼其他的安排?部長\n其實關於三菁儀隊要離開堂體之後他要用什麼方式操練這件事情我們其實非常慎重的已經跟國防部開過很多次會議然後那個路線怎麼走要考慮到本身這些軍人的方便還有觀光客的方便還有他要用什麼方式在\n李宜瑾議員\n林宜瑾議員\n李宜瑾議員\n移到戶外來進行．而且比照鍾列慈的模式．予以就取消勤務我想這個規劃看起來還蠻清楚的那我是困惑的是說那既然文化部是主管機關．而且早就規劃好了那為什麼還要推給行政院推動轉型正義匯報來做同意\n中正紀念堂轉型推動專案小組他們其實也早在去年就已經對於儀隊的撤離做成決議喔不是嗎所以我想請部長說明說文化部對於這樣的\n規劃那你們未來就是真的還要再送所謂的轉型匯報嗎那還是說你們自己就可以來決定這件事情然後來交代國防部去實施\n這個路線連我都沒有清楚我覺得可能是裡面有些人的想法像這個路線我是文化部長我都不知道這是最後定案這或許是規劃是規劃它可能是規劃之一最新的規劃就是因為我希望這次做完之後就維持這個狀態不要再改來改去所以必須是要國安部本身也接受文化部也\n林宜瑾議員\n對 這個轉型正義會報其實在去年就是很多的成員都已經決議就是說所謂的這個三軍一隊居使是要撤離堂體這件事情那所以這個已經是決議的事情沒有被決議好像在一年前有這個決議然後半年後沒有結論可見這件事情是非常難的他決議後很難執行所以經過兩次會議\n我自己去翻閱上一次會議是沒有結論\n上一次會議沒有結論到了我們開始國防部表達說他有不堅持的一個可能的時候我們才可能往下做所以我是非常感謝國防部說他們不堅持了給了我們文化部一個可能性那這個過程中我們其實來來回回開了很多次會路線怎麼走推翻了再改過來其實就表示我們真的要做了但是又希望做到一個大家都能比較能接受的\n好,那就是照9月份送轉型這一位吧?也許不用到9月啦,因為我心裡也蠻急的,因為這樣的題目你如果一直講但是又沒有做,會引起更大的一個反彈,所以我心裡面會希望越快越好。\n我贊成部長這樣講因為說真的這個轉型正義匯報的成員到8月就已經到期那9月是一個新的成員我們過去都是這些舊的成員在討論這件事情最清楚所以如果說這件事情拖好9月讓新的成員去決定那我看可能所以還是儘快最好我會儘快\n臺南火車站原本預計今年的6月要辦理新的修復工程的發包那預計2025年底要完工\n目前部長不曉得進度如何那再來就是說那如果沒有辦法如期發包那到底困境在哪裡那有信心在2025完工嗎因為這件事情拖很久那如果遲遲沒有辦法辦理建築師的這個設計、建造或者營造廠的這個發包那最後\n文化部有打算要接手嗎?因為現在目前都是台鐵的事可是台鐵對於文資修復真的很外行那所以這件事情要如何處理?部長因為文資修復是一個非常重要的事情因為它修復的那個能力還有能不能回到原來那個樣子其實不能夠很草率地做所以會事實上有那個\n尤其像上個月我們就有兩次找了專家學者現行他現在的問題就是第一個他結算的部分\n有送到文化部的審議會裡面審議會還有一些意見要退請他再修正另外我們也在上個月有找專家學者現勘之後給他建議希望他能夠先提出修復的原則還有一些怎麼樣進行的方案也都在持續進行的確是比較慢因為這種事情只要是終止結束契約之後後面的程序比較冗長我們一定會盡全力來協助\n實際上關於台南火車站的修復狀況我也跟建築師公會做過很多的討論那建築師都認為其實增結的點還是在所謂修復人才真的不夠那我想不僅修復人才不夠整個的契約也應該合理化去年11月2號本席有跟史哲部長在教育委員會討論過這個問題公共工程技術服務契約的範本\n本來是採用總包價法在這個文資修復案件中會造成很多的履約爭議那使則部長當時有說文化部對這項問題是有意識的那所以他認為文資修復工作就如同局長剛剛講的變數很大那無法一開始就精準的估量\n請局長回答\n總包價法,我們在去年10月已經召開會議,邀請了全國建築師公會,還有各縣市政府,還有委員辦公室,您的同仁也有去。大家後來發覺說,總包價法,有一些建築師公會原來想要用建造百分比法,但是大家覺得有的時候建造百分比法比總包價法建築師拿到的金錢還要少。\n後來我們在今年2月也邀集全國建築師公會也在商議就照現有的工程會的契約範本裡面增訂經費表的範本用這種方式那這種方式我們已經有把這個草案在4月份已經提供給全國建築師公會參考\n我想談到文資修復的建築師的人才不足\n首先真的要很感謝文化部正式這樣的困境所以在去年初在那個文資修復的這個課題座談會上那本席有提出的構想就是說文化部預注一千萬那以五年為期那為我們國家培訓一百個文資修復的建築師那上週接獲一個好消息那就是我們文資修復建築師人才培訓的問題終於已經邁向正軌那中斷了21年的這個建築師的文資培訓計畫\n上述政策預計會辦理多少年?未來會常態性推動嗎?\n我想文資修復建築師就是要鼓勵年輕人來投入\n所以在這裡我也有個倡議就是說希望文化部來支持那就是修正這個古蹟修復及再利用辦法第19條我們明定領有建築師執照並且在古蹟修復設計及建造培訓班受過培訓的\n林宜瑾議員林宜瑾議員\n林宜瑾議員\nHOW?\n林宜瑾\n表演者上台第一次麥克風出現問題已經很扯可是換過之後居然還沒有聲音我想流行音樂這種盛世發生這種低級錯誤那中段歌手的表演整段重來我覺得這個很多音樂人看了都很心痛那也覺得丟盡了台灣身為科技大國的這個國家顏面部長我想這一次的金曲獎\n陳英工程設備的負責公司據很多音樂人反映說無論是器材的更新保養或者技術人員過去都出現很多的問題這並不是這一次金曲榜才出發他們早在業界就被大家頭痛許久\n林宜瑾議員\n品質的維持已經是沒有辦法可是為什麼還是會標到案因為他們都用低價去標到可是你看這個案子搞砸了所以我覺得這個事情可能要再好好的做檢討那是不是我們要要求這整個業界要針對這個事情我覺得這個事情出包確實是一個很大的遺憾\n主席謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.118 --> 00:03.980\n李委員你好部長辛苦部長在上週二本席的總質詢裡我質詢顧林雄部長那他很明確的說國防部的態度就是三軍一隊可以移到自由廣場那最終拍板的就是文化部\n\n00:29.019 --> 00:57.839\n那我想而且要強調國防部會完全的配合那在這樣的狀況之下當然文化部的態度就是關鍵喔那我想藉這個機會因為早上有很多的委員都有垂詢就藉這個機會也請部長來說明就第一個三軍儀隊離開堂體是否已經是文化部的最終定案那第二個就是說三軍儀隊是不是會如同國防部的建議改到自由廣場去操練那再來就是說文化部\n\n00:58.920 --> 01:03.334\n還會不會再思考對於三軍一隊有什麼其他的安排?部長\n\n01:07.690 --> 01:30.199\n其實關於三菁儀隊要離開堂體之後他要用什麼方式操練這件事情我們其實非常慎重的已經跟國防部開過很多次會議然後那個路線怎麼走要考慮到本身這些軍人的方便還有觀光客的方便還有他要用什麼方式在\n\n01:30.979 --> 01:31.299\n李宜瑾議員\n\n01:55.171 --> 01:55.251\n林宜瑾議員\n\n02:10.311 --> 02:10.431\n李宜瑾議員\n\n02:28.277 --> 02:46.558\n移到戶外來進行．而且比照鍾列慈的模式．予以就取消勤務我想這個規劃看起來還蠻清楚的那我是困惑的是說那既然文化部是主管機關．而且早就規劃好了那為什麼還要推給行政院推動轉型正義匯報來做同意\n\n02:50.221 --> 03:03.965\n中正紀念堂轉型推動專案小組他們其實也早在去年就已經對於儀隊的撤離做成決議喔不是嗎所以我想請部長說明說文化部對於這樣的\n\n03:06.588 --> 03:17.705\n規劃那你們未來就是真的還要再送所謂的轉型匯報嗎那還是說你們自己就可以來決定這件事情然後來交代國防部去實施\n\n03:20.931 --> 03:46.014\n這個路線連我都沒有清楚我覺得可能是裡面有些人的想法像這個路線我是文化部長我都不知道這是最後定案這或許是規劃是規劃它可能是規劃之一最新的規劃就是因為我希望這次做完之後就維持這個狀態不要再改來改去所以必須是要國安部本身也接受文化部也\n\n03:46.815 --> 03:46.875\n林宜瑾議員\n\n04:05.983 --> 04:27.841\n對這個轉型正義會報其實在去年就是很多的成員都已經決議就是說所謂的這個三軍一隊居使是要撤離堂體這件事情那所以這個已經是決議的事情沒有被決議好像在一年前有這個決議然後半年後沒有結論可見這件事情是非常難的他決議後很難執行所以經過兩次會議\n\n04:34.710 --> 04:37.559\n我自己去翻閱上一次會議是沒有結論\n\n04:39.235 --> 05:05.948\n上一次會議沒有結論到了我們開始國防部表達說他有不堅持的一個可能的時候我們才可能往下做所以我是非常感謝國防部說他們不堅持了給了我們文化部一個可能性那這個過程中我們其實來來回回開了很多次會路線怎麼走推翻了再改過來其實就表示我們真的要做了但是又希望做到一個大家都能比較能接受的\n\n05:06.448 --> 05:21.609\n好,那就是照9月份送轉型這一位吧?也許不用到9月啦,因為我心裡也蠻急的,因為這樣的題目你如果一直講但是又沒有做,會引起更大的一個反彈,所以我心裡面會希望越快越好。\n\n05:22.570 --> 05:45.829\n我贊成部長這樣講因為說真的這個轉型正義匯報的成員到8月就已經到期那9月是一個新的成員我們過去都是這些舊的成員在討論這件事情最清楚所以如果說這件事情拖好9月讓新的成員去決定那我看可能所以還是儘快最好我會儘快\n\n05:48.251 --> 05:50.773\n臺南火車站原本預計今年的6月要辦理新的修復工程的發包那預計2025年底要完工\n\n06:03.382 --> 06:19.695\n目前部長不曉得進度如何那再來就是說那如果沒有辦法如期發包那到底困境在哪裡那有信心在2025完工嗎因為這件事情拖很久那如果遲遲沒有辦法辦理建築師的這個設計、建造或者營造廠的這個發包那最後\n\n06:25.319 --> 06:45.051\n文化部有打算要接手嗎?因為現在目前都是台鐵的事可是台鐵對於文資修復真的很外行那所以這件事情要如何處理?部長因為文資修復是一個非常重要的事情因為它修復的那個能力還有能不能回到原來那個樣子其實不能夠很草率地做所以會事實上有那個\n\n06:46.451 --> 06:51.575\n尤其像上個月我們就有兩次找了專家學者現行他現在的問題就是第一個他結算的部分\n\n07:15.011 --> 07:36.262\n有送到文化部的審議會裡面審議會還有一些意見要退請他再修正另外我們也在上個月有找專家學者現勘之後給他建議希望他能夠先提出修復的原則還有一些怎麼樣進行的方案也都在持續進行的確是比較慢因為這種事情只要是終止結束契約之後後面的程序比較冗長我們一定會盡全力來協助\n\n07:39.744 --> 07:59.497\n實際上關於台南火車站的修復狀況我也跟建築師公會做過很多的討論那建築師都認為其實增結的點還是在所謂修復人才真的不夠那我想不僅修復人才不夠整個的契約也應該合理化去年11月2號本席有跟史哲部長在教育委員會討論過這個問題公共工程技術服務契約的範本\n\n08:05.080 --> 08:25.658\n本來是採用總包價法在這個文資修復案件中會造成很多的履約爭議那使則部長當時有說文化部對這項問題是有意識的那所以他認為文資修復工作就如同局長剛剛講的變數很大那無法一開始就精準的估量\n\n08:26.098 --> 08:26.398\n請局長回答\n\n08:56.223 --> 09:18.860\n總包價法,我們在去年10月已經召開會議,邀請了全國建築師公會,還有各縣市政府,還有委員辦公室,您的同仁也有去。大家後來發覺說,總包價法,有一些建築師公會原來想要用建造百分比法,但是大家覺得有的時候建造百分比法比總包價法建築師拿到的金錢還要少。\n\n09:19.580 --> 09:38.553\n後來我們在今年2月也邀集全國建築師公會也在商議就照現有的工程會的契約範本裡面增訂經費表的範本用這種方式那這種方式我們已經有把這個草案在4月份已經提供給全國建築師公會參考\n\n09:40.174 --> 09:41.515\n我想談到文資修復的建築師的人才不足\n\n09:56.591 --> 10:19.609\n首先真的要很感謝文化部正式這樣的困境所以在去年初在那個文資修復的這個課題座談會上那本席有提出的構想就是說文化部預注一千萬那以五年為期那為我們國家培訓一百個文資修復的建築師那上週接獲一個好消息那就是我們文資修復建築師人才培訓的問題終於已經邁向正軌那中斷了21年的這個建築師的文資培訓計畫\n\n10:27.014 --> 10:28.754\n上述政策預計會辦理多少年?未來會常態性推動嗎?\n\n10:52.594 --> 10:54.617\n我想文資修復建築師就是要鼓勵年輕人來投入\n\n11:11.978 --> 11:28.275\n所以在這裡我也有個倡議就是說希望文化部來支持那就是修正這個古蹟修復及再利用辦法第19條我們明定領有建築師執照並且在古蹟修復設計及建造培訓班受過培訓的\n\n11:29.116 --> 11:29.536\n林宜瑾議員林宜瑾議員\n\n11:56.328 --> 11:56.388\n林宜瑾議員\n\n12:24.193 --> 12:24.313\nHOW?\n\n12:39.155 --> 12:39.295\n林宜瑾\n\n12:58.755 --> 13:21.543\n表演者上台第一次麥克風出現問題已經很扯可是換過之後居然還沒有聲音我想流行音樂這種盛世發生這種低級錯誤那中段歌手的表演整段重來我覺得這個很多音樂人看了都很心痛那也覺得丟盡了台灣身為科技大國的這個國家顏面部長我想這一次的金曲獎\n\n13:22.843 --> 13:41.357\n陳英工程設備的負責公司據很多音樂人反映說無論是器材的更新保養或者技術人員過去都出現很多的問題這並不是這一次金曲榜才出發他們早在業界就被大家頭痛許久\n\n13:41.957 --> 13:42.217\n林宜瑾議員\n\n14:04.924 --> 14:28.782\n品質的維持已經是沒有辦法可是為什麼還是會標到案因為他們都用低價去標到可是你看這個案子搞砸了所以我覺得這個事情可能要再好好的做檢討那是不是我們要要求這整個業界要針對這個事情我覺得這個事情出包確實是一個很大的遺憾\n\n14:30.051 --> 14:30.732\n主席謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.118,"end":3.98,"text":"李委員你好部長辛苦部長在上週二本席的總質詢裡我質詢顧林雄部長那他很明確的說國防部的態度就是三軍一隊可以移到自由廣場那最終拍板的就是文化部"},{"start":29.019,"end":57.839,"text":"那我想而且要強調國防部會完全的配合那在這樣的狀況之下當然文化部的態度就是關鍵喔那我想藉這個機會因為早上有很多的委員都有垂詢就藉這個機會也請部長來說明就第一個三軍儀隊離開堂體是否已經是文化部的最終定案那第二個就是說三軍儀隊是不是會如同國防部的建議改到自由廣場去操練那再來就是說文化部"},{"start":58.92,"end":63.334,"text":"還會不會再思考對於三軍一隊有什麼其他的安排?部長"},{"start":67.69,"end":90.199,"text":"其實關於三菁儀隊要離開堂體之後他要用什麼方式操練這件事情我們其實非常慎重的已經跟國防部開過很多次會議然後那個路線怎麼走要考慮到本身這些軍人的方便還有觀光客的方便還有他要用什麼方式在"},{"start":90.979,"end":91.299,"text":"李宜瑾議員"},{"start":115.171,"end":115.251,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":130.311,"end":130.431,"text":"李宜瑾議員"},{"start":148.277,"end":166.558,"text":"移到戶外來進行．而且比照鍾列慈的模式．予以就取消勤務我想這個規劃看起來還蠻清楚的那我是困惑的是說那既然文化部是主管機關．而且早就規劃好了那為什麼還要推給行政院推動轉型正義匯報來做同意"},{"start":170.221,"end":183.965,"text":"中正紀念堂轉型推動專案小組他們其實也早在去年就已經對於儀隊的撤離做成決議喔不是嗎所以我想請部長說明說文化部對於這樣的"},{"start":186.588,"end":197.705,"text":"規劃那你們未來就是真的還要再送所謂的轉型匯報嗎那還是說你們自己就可以來決定這件事情然後來交代國防部去實施"},{"start":200.931,"end":226.014,"text":"這個路線連我都沒有清楚我覺得可能是裡面有些人的想法像這個路線我是文化部長我都不知道這是最後定案這或許是規劃是規劃它可能是規劃之一最新的規劃就是因為我希望這次做完之後就維持這個狀態不要再改來改去所以必須是要國安部本身也接受文化部也"},{"start":226.815,"end":226.875,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":245.983,"end":267.841,"text":"對 這個轉型正義會報其實在去年就是很多的成員都已經決議就是說所謂的這個三軍一隊居使是要撤離堂體這件事情那所以這個已經是決議的事情沒有被決議好像在一年前有這個決議然後半年後沒有結論可見這件事情是非常難的他決議後很難執行所以經過兩次會議"},{"start":274.71,"end":277.559,"text":"我自己去翻閱上一次會議是沒有結論"},{"start":279.235,"end":305.948,"text":"上一次會議沒有結論到了我們開始國防部表達說他有不堅持的一個可能的時候我們才可能往下做所以我是非常感謝國防部說他們不堅持了給了我們文化部一個可能性那這個過程中我們其實來來回回開了很多次會路線怎麼走推翻了再改過來其實就表示我們真的要做了但是又希望做到一個大家都能比較能接受的"},{"start":306.448,"end":321.609,"text":"好,那就是照9月份送轉型這一位吧?也許不用到9月啦,因為我心裡也蠻急的,因為這樣的題目你如果一直講但是又沒有做,會引起更大的一個反彈,所以我心裡面會希望越快越好。"},{"start":322.57,"end":345.829,"text":"我贊成部長這樣講因為說真的這個轉型正義匯報的成員到8月就已經到期那9月是一個新的成員我們過去都是這些舊的成員在討論這件事情最清楚所以如果說這件事情拖好9月讓新的成員去決定那我看可能所以還是儘快最好我會儘快"},{"start":348.251,"end":350.773,"text":"臺南火車站原本預計今年的6月要辦理新的修復工程的發包那預計2025年底要完工"},{"start":363.382,"end":379.695,"text":"目前部長不曉得進度如何那再來就是說那如果沒有辦法如期發包那到底困境在哪裡那有信心在2025完工嗎因為這件事情拖很久那如果遲遲沒有辦法辦理建築師的這個設計、建造或者營造廠的這個發包那最後"},{"start":385.319,"end":405.051,"text":"文化部有打算要接手嗎?因為現在目前都是台鐵的事可是台鐵對於文資修復真的很外行那所以這件事情要如何處理?部長因為文資修復是一個非常重要的事情因為它修復的那個能力還有能不能回到原來那個樣子其實不能夠很草率地做所以會事實上有那個"},{"start":406.451,"end":411.575,"text":"尤其像上個月我們就有兩次找了專家學者現行他現在的問題就是第一個他結算的部分"},{"start":435.011,"end":456.262,"text":"有送到文化部的審議會裡面審議會還有一些意見要退請他再修正另外我們也在上個月有找專家學者現勘之後給他建議希望他能夠先提出修復的原則還有一些怎麼樣進行的方案也都在持續進行的確是比較慢因為這種事情只要是終止結束契約之後後面的程序比較冗長我們一定會盡全力來協助"},{"start":459.744,"end":479.497,"text":"實際上關於台南火車站的修復狀況我也跟建築師公會做過很多的討論那建築師都認為其實增結的點還是在所謂修復人才真的不夠那我想不僅修復人才不夠整個的契約也應該合理化去年11月2號本席有跟史哲部長在教育委員會討論過這個問題公共工程技術服務契約的範本"},{"start":485.08,"end":505.658,"text":"本來是採用總包價法在這個文資修復案件中會造成很多的履約爭議那使則部長當時有說文化部對這項問題是有意識的那所以他認為文資修復工作就如同局長剛剛講的變數很大那無法一開始就精準的估量"},{"start":506.098,"end":506.398,"text":"請局長回答"},{"start":536.223,"end":558.86,"text":"總包價法,我們在去年10月已經召開會議,邀請了全國建築師公會,還有各縣市政府,還有委員辦公室,您的同仁也有去。大家後來發覺說,總包價法,有一些建築師公會原來想要用建造百分比法,但是大家覺得有的時候建造百分比法比總包價法建築師拿到的金錢還要少。"},{"start":559.58,"end":578.553,"text":"後來我們在今年2月也邀集全國建築師公會也在商議就照現有的工程會的契約範本裡面增訂經費表的範本用這種方式那這種方式我們已經有把這個草案在4月份已經提供給全國建築師公會參考"},{"start":580.174,"end":581.515,"text":"我想談到文資修復的建築師的人才不足"},{"start":596.591,"end":619.609,"text":"首先真的要很感謝文化部正式這樣的困境所以在去年初在那個文資修復的這個課題座談會上那本席有提出的構想就是說文化部預注一千萬那以五年為期那為我們國家培訓一百個文資修復的建築師那上週接獲一個好消息那就是我們文資修復建築師人才培訓的問題終於已經邁向正軌那中斷了21年的這個建築師的文資培訓計畫"},{"start":627.014,"end":628.754,"text":"上述政策預計會辦理多少年?未來會常態性推動嗎?"},{"start":652.594,"end":654.617,"text":"我想文資修復建築師就是要鼓勵年輕人來投入"},{"start":671.978,"end":688.275,"text":"所以在這裡我也有個倡議就是說希望文化部來支持那就是修正這個古蹟修復及再利用辦法第19條我們明定領有建築師執照並且在古蹟修復設計及建造培訓班受過培訓的"},{"start":689.116,"end":689.536,"text":"林宜瑾議員林宜瑾議員"},{"start":716.328,"end":716.388,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":744.193,"end":744.313,"text":"HOW?"},{"start":759.155,"end":759.295,"text":"林宜瑾"},{"start":778.755,"end":801.543,"text":"表演者上台第一次麥克風出現問題已經很扯可是換過之後居然還沒有聲音我想流行音樂這種盛世發生這種低級錯誤那中段歌手的表演整段重來我覺得這個很多音樂人看了都很心痛那也覺得丟盡了台灣身為科技大國的這個國家顏面部長我想這一次的金曲獎"},{"start":802.843,"end":821.357,"text":"陳英工程設備的負責公司據很多音樂人反映說無論是器材的更新保養或者技術人員過去都出現很多的問題這並不是這一次金曲榜才出發他們早在業界就被大家頭痛許久"},{"start":821.957,"end":822.217,"text":"林宜瑾議員"},{"start":844.924,"end":868.782,"text":"品質的維持已經是沒有辦法可是為什麼還是會標到案因為他們都用低價去標到可是你看這個案子搞砸了所以我覺得這個事情可能要再好好的做檢討那是不是我們要要求這整個業界要針對這個事情我覺得這個事情出包確實是一個很大的遺憾"},{"start":870.051,"end":870.732,"text":"主席謝主席"}]}}}}