{"id":154510,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154510","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5ad2054f9b7cf4bdfb7b9c71597015ea27d0a78c1009ae5e47ffec24bc1a8f64bc8fad7574f95d0e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:59:12 - 12:10:33","影片長度":"00:11:21","會議時間":"2024-07-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠列席就「『文化資產保存法』施行40年有餘，修復體系翻新升級」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-03","start_time":"2024-07-03T11:59:12+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-03T12:10:33+08:00","duration":681,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":18,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-18"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":784,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時59分）主席，麻煩請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：葉委員好，我們又見面啦！"],["葉委員元之：部長好，謝謝！我們今天談文化資產保存，板橋有一個林家花園，應該是國定古蹟，最近因為菜刀房在0403地震之後有毀損，地方政府有跟中央申請補助，不知道下來沒有？"],["李部長遠：這個部分核准了。"],["葉委員元之：核准多少錢？"],["李部長遠：核准多少錢是不是請文資局局長回答一下？"],["陳局長濟民：委員，我們再查一下，因為我們大概在發生的第一週……"],["葉委員元之：這個會全額補助嘛，對不對？"],["陳局長濟民：我們還是按照……"],["葉委員元之：速度可不可以快一點？好不好？因為林家花園是板橋很重要的地標，而且它是非常著名的古蹟，希望能夠趕快補助。我這邊要提兩個部分，我以前在地方服務時對文化資產保存的看法，當然我們對於文化資產都支持，但往往受限於經費，會讓我們的美意打折。第一件事情就是當很多文化資產被提報要變成文化資產的時候，它的保存、維護、修繕都要仰賴文化部所給的B類補助，對不對？但是B類補助是不是預算有限？導致於很多補助沒辦法及時，也沒辦法達到比如說相當的額度，所以就會造成一個狀況，就是文化資產因為沒辦法及時修繕，造成它的價值不斷地減損。這個問題其實蠻嚴重的，我不知道文化部有沒有針對這個問題提出一些策略出來？有沒有？"],["李部長遠：請文資局局長回答。"],["陳局長濟民：第一個，我們當然是積極地爭取預算……"],["葉委員元之：跟誰爭取？"],["陳局長濟民：向行政院，像我剛才提到的全國的古蹟歷史建築的補助修復經費，大概都是我們一個中程計畫，叫做歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫的中程計畫，已經18年了，今年第19年，都是靠這個計畫，去年在第5期六年計畫……"],["葉委員元之：不用講那麼細，因為我們沒有那麼多時間，所以我只是跟你講問題很嚴重。"],["陳局長濟民：是，瞭解。"],["葉委員元之：曲高和寡啦！講得好像文化資產我們多重視，但實際上在地方很多破損要申請補助都拿不到，然後它不斷地毀損，價值遞減，到時要修繕時候要花更多的錢，所以這部分我覺得是比較急的問題要解決。","第二個問題，很多民眾的家產如果被劃定為文化資產的時候，其實他們都不高興，你有發現到這件事嗎？很少人會很高興自己的家被劃為文化資產，主要就是給的獎勵太少了，給獎勵少又影響到他去處分財產，所以他們都不高興，常常在地方就造成很多對立，這個部分我不曉得能不能解決？比如在修法或者是在給相關的獎勵方面可以多一點，讓他覺得做這個事情很好，也願意配合，有可能嗎？"],["陳局長濟民：依現有的話，我們有一些獎勵措施……"],["葉委員元之：就不夠啊！你有沒有去瞭解一下家產被列為文化資產的那些人的心情是如何？"],["陳局長濟民：委員所講的確是事實。"],["葉委員元之：對啊！你們都視而不見。"],["陳局長濟民：我們現在要啟動……"],["葉委員元之：這是我長期觀察到的問題，剛好今天是這個主題，我就反映給你們，我希望不管是在補助的額度跟速度，還有包括有人如果他的家產被劃為文化資產的相對應獎勵，我覺得一定要提高，不然就是曲高和寡，講得好像很厲害的樣子，好像我們很重視，實際上都無法落實，這部分你有沒有可能給我們一個檢討報告？有可能嗎？針對我剛講的兩點，就額外再提供好不好？"],["陳局長濟民：是。"],["葉委員元之：一個月內，好不好？"],["陳局長濟民：好。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝。","接下來我要關心一下黃牛票的事，張學友演唱會剛結束，劉德華又要來了，張學友那時候的票就很多人都抱怨，因為黃牛的問題。我上次也關心過，文化部因為打黃牛要成立一個打黃牛辦公室，10個月花了800萬，當時是由長慧律師事務所得標，計畫主持人叫袁秀慧，他的顧問叫蘇孔志，後來我們有跟你們調資料，你們有給我看，因為我非常好奇為什麼打黃牛要成立一個黃牛辦公室？800萬怎麼分配呢？我們看了一下，結果發現這個案子真的很奇怪。第一個，光人力包括計畫主持人、協同主持人、專案經理、辦公室督導，加上辦公室的人員5位，成立這個辦公室有9個人，就是文化部為了打黃牛成立一個打黃牛國家隊，然後另外又請了9個人來做這個事情。第二，就是已經請了人，然後那些人的業務範圍內的工作還要另外再付他錢。舉例來講，我用紅色畫起來叫做「客訴報表彙整」，每個月要出一個民眾打來客訴的報表，可能是excel，一個月還要給他3萬元，我不是已經請人來做這個事了嗎？他做的事情，我還要額外再給他錢？好比說我今天請了一個國會助理，我一個月給他5萬元，結果他每次幫我寫質詢稿還要按件計酬，這感覺非常不合理。然後另外我們再看「電腦處理費」，裡面還有一個叫「電腦使用時間費」，就是我們已經給他錢了，但是他只要有用到他辦公室電腦，我另外還要再給錢；甚至還有付磁片的費用，我不知道現在這個年代還有人在用磁片，也是讓我覺得很奇怪。另外還有「行政管理費」，就已經付錢給他們那麼多的薪水了，然後還要再給他行政管理費！可見這個預算編列真的非常奇怪。剛剛我們在講文化資產保護都說沒錢，可是打黃牛的錢是可以這樣隨便給，我不知道部長乍看之下會不會覺得很奇怪？"],["李部長遠：乍看很怪……"],["葉委員元之：我先把它講完，我如果請一個助理，助理幫我寫質詢稿還要另外再跟我拿錢，或是他幫我準備一些PPT還要跟我拿錢，你覺得合理嗎？"],["李部長遠：我請次長回答好嗎？"],["葉委員元之：部長，你回答啦！"],["李部長遠：因為涉及到我們所請來的人裡面有法律，還有資訊……"],["葉委員元之：對，已經有法律這部分的錢了，裡面有50萬叫做「法令遵循流程設計」，也就是我們請那麼多人來做事，然後在法律的部分也是有給他錢喔！部長，沒關係，你先稍微看一下，後面還有其他資料，我繼續秀一下。","再者，這個標案的人全部都綠油油，比如顧問蘇孔志，他就是民進黨政策會之前的副執行長，然後袁秀慧律師以前是謝長廷的子弟兵，這也是我覺得很奇怪的地方，當然你會說他們有專長，所以做這個標案是適才適所，一定是這樣子講。但是從那麼奇怪的預算分配，剛好人又那麼巧合都是綠油油，所以也就啟人疑竇。當然我們辦公室也有跟你們要這個案子的結案報告，就是到底打了多少黃牛？多少黃牛是因為這個辦公室的關係被抓到？就是讓很多本來買不到張學友票的人買到了，但是我看不到這個結案報告書，我不知道這個案子的成效如何，部長，你知道嗎？"],["李部長遠：剛才講袁秀慧是綠油油這件事情，我稍微說明一下，請給我一點機會……"],["葉委員元之：他的那個網站上面……"],["李部長遠：假如我沒有記錯，他是柯文哲時代法律部門的主管，是局長……"],["葉委員元之：那也有可能現在跟柯文哲不好啦，但是現在律師事務所上面的網站是講他跟謝長廷很好。"],["李部長遠：我覺得我們臺灣最糟糕就是把一個人貼標籤，說他是綠是藍還是白。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，這是他標榜的，因為我也很少看到律師事務所的訴求是強調它是綠油油，我也沒看過，但它的網站上就是這樣。"],["李部長遠：我印象中他應該……"],["葉委員元之：好，後面還有。打黃牛除了這個標案之外，我們還有看到另外一個打黃牛的標案，叫做「黃牛專案防制人力勞務採購」，就是說我們已經花錢成立一個打黃牛國家隊，另外我們又有一個專案130萬來做這個黃牛專案防制人力勞務採購，今天沒有時間，我先把這些問題都點出來，你事後再給我報告。","再來我們看，剛剛那個案子長慧律師事務所的案子是10個月800萬，今年我們把那個標案延長了，變成一年半，同樣的打黃牛國家隊的案子把它變成一年半，然後費用也增加為1,500萬，有人跟我講得標廠商叫普華律師事務所，是嗎？是普華嗎？"],["李部長遠：對。"],["葉委員元之：普華裡面有一個合夥人叫賴芳玉，也是跟民進黨很多立委是好朋友。再來我們來看一下普華最近的案子，他得到113年到114年18個月1,500萬的打黃牛辦公室，然後112年也有得到文化部一個法律諮詢服務案148萬，這讓我覺得非常奇怪，就是我們已經有了這個法律諮詢的服務案，然後我們打黃牛又要再找別的律師來諮詢，已經有一個統整的法律諮詢案，然後針對特定項目又要再委託別的法律顧問來諮詢，我覺得文化部是不是真的錢很多？如果錢真的這麼多的話，可不可以把一部分的錢撥到文化資產那邊去？現在文化資產很缺費用，因為今天時間關係，我先把這些問題點出來，希望事後部長可不可以瞭解一下，因為你也是剛上任。"],["李部長遠：好，謝謝委員提這個問題。"],["葉委員元之：因為感覺文化部錢真的非常多，可以這樣花！"],["李部長遠：文化部錢不多啦！"],["葉委員元之：我覺得這部分就很多，我剛剛隨便唸就很多。所以第一個關鍵就是要幫人民省錢，你把那些標案審視一下。"],["李部長遠：對，我們瞭解整個案子之後再向委員解釋。"],["葉委員元之：第二，打黃牛問題還是要做，不是只是把錢發包出去而已，因為劉德華演唱會就要來了。"],["李部長遠：好，我們會寫一個報告，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。","我們現在先來處理臨時提案，今天有委員提出臨時提案1案，請宣讀。","臨時提案","本屆金曲獎表演者麥克風「無聲」事件，引發各界譁然，不僅傷害流行音樂盛事金曲獎聲譽，亦丟盡台灣作為科技大國之國家顏面。更有音樂人反映，成音工程設備負責公司已非首次出包，無論是器材的更新保養，又或者技術人才品質皆遭業界質疑。","文化部應於一個月內，以書面形式對立法院教育及文化委員會提出報告，說明實質改革作為，以使對金曲獎承辦單位與相關廠商之審查標準得以提升，痛定思痛精進整體作業。","提案人：林宜瑾","連署人：陳培瑜　　吳沛憶　　范　雲　　郭昱晴　　張雅琳"],["主席：這個提案是本席的提案，部長有何看法？"],["李部長遠：遵照辦理。"],["主席：謝謝，我們就照案通過。如果委員有要補簽提案，請到我的左手邊。","我們接著繼續質詢，請黃國昌委員發言，時間4分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":136,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-18","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林德福","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","張雅琳","陳秀寳","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","范雲","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 148.934, \"end\": 148.954, \"score\": 0.61}]}, {\"start\": 149.474, \"end\": 178.476, \"text\": \"我們不然取高可寡啦講的好像文化資產我們都重視但實際上在地方很多破損要申請補助拿不到嘛然後他他不斷的毀損價值遞減你到時候要修繕的時候你要花更多的錢啊所以這部分我覺得是比較急的問題要解決第二個問題是很多我們的民眾啊他他們家的家產啊如果被劃定為文化資產的時候其實都不高興你有發現這件事嗎很少人是說哎呀我很高興我們家被劃成文化資產的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 149.474, \"end\": 149.594, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 149.594, \"end\": 149.674, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 149.674, \"end\": 150.054, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 150.054, \"end\": 150.175, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 150.175, \"end\": 150.355, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 150.355, \"end\": 150.555, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"寡\", \"start\": 150.555, \"end\": 150.735, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 150.735, \"end\": 151.576, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.576, \"end\": 151.696, 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\"end\": 297.087, \"text\": \"當時是由常會律師事務所得標那計畫主持人叫袁秀慧他的顧問叫蘇孔志後來我們有跟你們調資料你們有給我看他因為我非常好奇為什麼打黃牛要成立一個黃牛辦公室啊所以八百萬怎麼分配呢就看了一下結果發現真的很奇怪這個案子\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 275.548, \"end\": 275.889, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 275.889, \"end\": 277.05, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 277.05, \"end\": 277.55, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 277.55, \"end\": 277.951, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 277.951, \"end\": 278.231, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 278.231, \"end\": 278.431, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 278.431, \"end\": 279.172, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 279.172, \"end\": 279.872, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 279.872, \"end\": 280.032, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 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\"因為今天時間關係我先把這些問題點出來就像說事後部長可不可以了解一下因為你也是剛上任好不好謝謝委員提這個問題我們來因為感覺文化部錢真的非常多可以這樣花的文化部錢不多啦我覺得這些就很多我剛剛隨便念就很多嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 647.689, \"end\": 647.829, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 647.829, \"end\": 647.849, \"score\": 0.025}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 647.849, \"end\": 648.63, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 648.63, \"end\": 648.791, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 648.791, \"end\": 649.051, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 649.051, \"end\": 649.331, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 649.331, \"end\": 649.491, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 649.491, \"end\": 649.972, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 649.972, \"end\": 650.232, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"像\", 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,521 --> 00:00:10,324\n主席要慢慢請部長,謝謝好,有請部長葉委員好,我們又見面了對,部長好,謝謝我們今天談文化資產保存因為我們板橋有林家花園應該是國定古蹟最近因為那個菜刀坊零四零三地震之後有毀損然後地方政府有跟中央申請補助不知道下來沒有\n\n2\n00:00:34,134 --> 00:00:55,564\n何準啊?何準多少錢?我想知不知,我自己想回答一下。委員我們再查一下,因為我們才發生在第一週。就是這個會全額補助嘛對不對?我們那個速度可不可以快一點好不好?因為這個林家花園是我們板橋很重要的地標啦。\n\n3\n00:00:56,618 --> 00:00:57,098\n〈文化資產保存法〉\n\n4\n00:01:19,689 --> 00:01:38,917\n文化資產他被提報他被提報成為要變成文化資產的時候他的保存維護修繕都要仰賴文化部所給的B類補助嘛對不對但是B類補助是不是預算有限所以導致於說很多補助他沒辦法及時也沒辦法達到比如說\n\n5\n00:01:40,197 --> 00:01:58,017\n相當的額度所以就會造成一個狀況就是他那個文化資產因為沒有辦法及時修繕造成他的價值不斷的減損那這個問題其實蠻嚴重的那我不知道說文化部有沒有想要針對這個問題做提出一些對岸策略出來有沒有\n\n6\n00:01:59,657 --> 00:02:28,954\n老師請文字局局長回答好葉委員第一個我們當然是積極地爭取預算像跟誰爭取跟像行政院像我們我剛才提到的全國的古蹟歷史建築的修補助的一些修復經費大概都是我們一個中層計畫叫做歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫的中層計畫已經18年了今年第19年都是靠這個計畫去年在第5期6年計畫不用講那麼細喔因為我們沒有那麼多時間所以我只是跟你講問題很嚴重啦是是\n\n7\n00:02:29,474 --> 00:02:58,476\n我們不然取高可寡啦講的好像文化資產我們都重視但實際上在地方很多破損要申請補助拿不到嘛然後他他不斷的毀損價值遞減你到時候要修繕的時候你要花更多的錢啊所以這部分我覺得是比較急的問題要解決第二個問題是很多我們的民眾啊他他們家的家產啊如果被劃定為文化資產的時候其實都不高興你有發現這件事嗎很少人是說哎呀我很高興我們家被劃成文化資產的\n\n8\n00:02:59,873 --> 00:03:20,827\n主要就是給的獎勵太少了嘛那給的獎勵少又影響到他去處分這個財產嘛所以他們都不高興那常常在地方就造成很多對立啊那這個部分我不曉得能不能解決比如說在修法或者是在給相關的獎勵方面可以多一點讓他覺得做這個事情很好願意配合有可能嘛\n\n9\n00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:47,283\n好,委員,就是現有的話我們有一些獎勵措施,但是我知道也不夠你有沒有去了解一下那些被列為文化資產的那些人,他們的心情如何是,委員講的的確是事實阿你們都視而不見阿這是我長期觀察到的問題啦,剛好今天是這個主題我就反映給你們,我希望說不管是在補助的額度跟速度\n\n10\n00:03:48,204 --> 00:04:02,076\n還有包括就是有人如果他的家產被劃為文化資產相對應的獎勵我覺得一定要提高啦不然就是取高合寡講得好像講得很厲害這樣子我們很重視實際上更無法落實\n\n11\n00:04:03,517 --> 00:04:09,741\n接下來我要關心一下黃牛票的事張學友演唱會剛結束劉德娃又要來了張學友那時候的票很多人都很多抱怨因為黃牛的問題\n\n12\n00:04:26,957 --> 00:04:33,611\n我上次也關心過文化部因為打黃油成立了一個打黃油辦公室10個月花了800萬\n\n13\n00:04:35,548 --> 00:04:57,087\n當時是由常會律師事務所得標那計畫主持人叫袁秀慧他的顧問叫蘇孔志後來我們有跟你們調資料你們有給我看他因為我非常好奇為什麼打黃牛要成立一個黃牛辦公室啊所以八百萬怎麼分配呢就看了一下結果發現真的很奇怪這個案子\n\n14\n00:04:57,788 --> 00:05:22,917\n第一,他光人力,包括計畫主持人、協同主持人、專案經理還有辦公室督導,加上辦公室的人員五位,成立這個辦公室有九個人。就是說文化部為了打黃流,成立一個打黃流國家隊,然後另外又請了九個人來做這個事情。第二,就是說你已經請了人,然後那些人的業務範圍內的工作,還要另外再付他錢。\n\n15\n00:05:24,668 --> 00:05:40,227\n舉例來講我有一個紅色畫起來叫做客訴報表會診他每個月他要出一個民眾打來的客訴的報表可能是一個Excel你一個月還要給他3萬塊阿我不是已經請人來做這個事了嗎我還要他做的事情我還要額外給他錢\n\n16\n00:05:41,428 --> 00:06:03,421\n好比說我今天請了一個國會助理我一個月給他五萬結果他每次幫我寫質詢稿還要給我案件記酬這感覺非常不合理啊然後另外我們再來看什麼電腦處理費裡面還有一個叫電腦使用時間費就是說欸我們已經給了他這個錢了但是呢他只要有用到他辦公室電腦我另外還要再給錢\n\n17\n00:06:05,310 --> 00:06:29,348\n還有付一個瓷片的費用我不知道我們這個年代還有人在用瓷片也是讓我覺得很奇怪那另外還有一個行政管理費就已經付錢給他們那麼多的薪水了然後還要再給他行政管理費所以這個預算的編列我真的覺得非常奇怪剛剛我們在講文化資產保護都說沒錢可是打黃牛的錢是可以這樣隨便給\n\n18\n00:06:31,277 --> 00:06:56,717\n那我不知道部長你這樣乍看之下你覺得有沒有很奇怪?乍看?對,乍看有沒有很奇怪?或者是我剛剛聽我剛剛講完我請一個助理然後我那個助理幫我寫一個諮詢稿還要另外跟我收錢或者是他幫我準備一些PPPowerPoint還要跟我收錢你覺得合理嗎?我覺得我請次長回答好不好?等一下部長你回答啦好不好?\n\n19\n00:06:57,990 --> 00:06:58,290\n法律專訓流程設計\n\n20\n00:07:16,042 --> 00:07:33,716\n部長你沒關係你先稍微看一下後面還有其他資料我秀一下那這個標案的人全部都綠油油比如說這個顧問蘇孔志他就是民進黨的政策會副執行長之前的然後袁常惠律師以前是也是這個謝長廷的子弟兵\n\n21\n00:07:34,497 --> 00:07:34,697\n主席\n\n22\n00:07:53,731 --> 00:08:07,778\n這個然後我們辦公室也有跟你們去要這個案子的結案報告結案報告就是說他到底打了多少黃牛多少黃牛是因為他的關係被抓到然後讓很多本來買不到張學友票的人買到了我看不到這個結案報告書\n\n23\n00:08:09,844 --> 00:08:19,750\n我不知道說這個案子的成效如何不曉得你知道嗎剛才講元秀會是綠油油這件事我稍微給我一點機會假如我沒有記錯他是柯文哲時代法律的那個主管\n\n24\n00:08:26,214 --> 00:08:52,545\n是局長那也有可能現在跟柯文哲不好啦但是他的現在律師事務所上面的網站是講說他跟謝長廷很好其實我覺得我們台灣最糟糕就是把一個人貼標籤說他是綠還是藍這是他標榜的他標榜的他標榜如果說因為我也很少看到律師事務所他的訴求是他是綠我有沒看過但他的網站上就是這樣我印象中他應該\n\n25\n00:08:53,305 --> 00:08:55,325\n黃牛專案防制人力勞務採購我們已經花錢成立一個打黃牛國家隊另外一個專案130萬\n\n26\n00:09:15,350 --> 00:09:40,436\n又來做這個黃牛專案防治人力勞務採購今天沒有時間我先把這些問都點出來你事後再給我報告然後再來我們來看今年因為剛剛那個案子原常會律師事務所的案子是10個月800萬今年呢我們把那個標案延長了變成一年半同樣的標案打黃牛國家隊的案子把它變成一年半然後費用也增加變1500萬\n\n27\n00:09:42,156 --> 00:09:46,856\n那有人跟我講說得標廠商叫普華律師事務所是嗎?是普華嗎?\n\n28\n00:09:49,472 --> 00:10:18,125\n是普華嘛對普華裡面有一個合夥人叫賴芳玉只是跟民進黨很多立委是好朋友那再來我們來看一下普華最近的案子他得到113年到114年18個月1500萬的打黃牛辦公室然後他112年也有得到文化部一個法律諮詢服務案148萬這讓我覺得非常奇怪你知道嗎就是我們已經\n\n29\n00:10:19,651 --> 00:10:46,649\n為了我們已經有了這個法律諮詢的服務案然後我們打黃油又要再找別的律師來諮詢這已經有一個統整的法律諮詢案然後針對特定項目又要再委託別的法律顧問來諮詢我覺得文化部是不是真的錢很多如果錢真的這麼多的話可不可以把一部分的錢撥到文化資產那邊去就是說我們現在文化資產很缺費用啊\n\n30\n00:10:47,689 --> 00:11:05,610\n因為今天時間關係我先把這些問題點出來就像說事後部長可不可以了解一下因為你也是剛上任好不好謝謝委員提這個問題我們來因為感覺文化部錢真的非常多可以這樣花的文化部錢不多啦我覺得這些就很多我剛剛隨便念就很多嘛\n\n31\n00:11:07,732 --> 00:11:18,822\n關鍵是第一個幫人民省錢你把那些標案審視一下第二打黃標問題還是要做不是說只是把錢八包出去了因為劉德華演唱會就要來了好我們會寫一個報告謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7521\t10324\t主席要慢慢請部長,謝謝好,有請部長葉委員好,我們又見面了對,部長好,謝謝我們今天談文化資產保存因為我們板橋有林家花園應該是國定古蹟最近因為那個菜刀坊零四零三地震之後有毀損然後地方政府有跟中央申請補助不知道下來沒有\n34134\t55564\t何準啊?何準多少錢?我想知不知,我自己想回答一下。委員我們再查一下,因為我們才發生在第一週。就是這個會全額補助嘛對不對?我們那個速度可不可以快一點好不好?因為這個林家花園是我們板橋很重要的地標啦。\n56618\t57098\t〈文化資產保存法〉\n79689\t98917\t文化資產他被提報他被提報成為要變成文化資產的時候他的保存維護修繕都要仰賴文化部所給的B類補助嘛對不對但是B類補助是不是預算有限所以導致於說很多補助他沒辦法及時也沒辦法達到比如說\n100197\t118017\t相當的額度所以就會造成一個狀況就是他那個文化資產因為沒有辦法及時修繕造成他的價值不斷的減損那這個問題其實蠻嚴重的那我不知道說文化部有沒有想要針對這個問題做提出一些對岸策略出來有沒有\n119657\t148954\t老師請文字局局長回答好 葉委員 第一個我們當然是積極地爭取預算像跟誰爭取跟像行政院像我們我剛才提到的全國的古蹟歷史建築的修補助的一些修復經費大概都是我們一個中層計畫叫做歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫的中層計畫已經18年了今年第19年都是靠這個計畫去年在第5期6年計畫不用講那麼細喔因為我們沒有那麼多時間所以我只是跟你講問題很嚴重啦是是\n149474\t178476\t我們不然取高可寡啦講的好像文化資產我們都重視但實際上在地方很多破損要申請補助拿不到嘛然後他他不斷的毀損價值遞減你到時候要修繕的時候你要花更多的錢啊所以這部分我覺得是比較急的問題要解決第二個問題是很多我們的民眾啊他他們家的家產啊如果被劃定為文化資產的時候其實都不高興你有發現這件事嗎很少人是說哎呀我很高興我們家被劃成文化資產的\n179873\t200827\t主要就是給的獎勵太少了嘛那給的獎勵少又影響到他去處分這個財產嘛所以他們都不高興那常常在地方就造成很多對立啊那這個部分我不曉得能不能解決比如說在修法或者是在給相關的獎勵方面可以多一點讓他覺得做這個事情很好願意配合 有可能嘛\n203220\t227283\t好,委員,就是現有的話我們有一些獎勵措施,但是我知道也不夠你有沒有去了解一下那些被列為文化資產的那些人,他們的心情如何是,委員講的的確是事實阿你們都視而不見阿這是我長期觀察到的問題啦,剛好今天是這個主題我就反映給你們,我希望說不管是在補助的額度跟速度\n228204\t242076\t還有包括就是有人如果他的家產被劃為文化資產相對應的獎勵我覺得一定要提高啦不然就是取高合寡講得好像講得很厲害這樣子我們很重視實際上更無法落實\n243517\t249741\t接下來我要關心一下黃牛票的事張學友演唱會剛結束劉德娃又要來了張學友那時候的票很多人都很多抱怨因為黃牛的問題\n266957\t273611\t我上次也關心過 文化部因為打黃油成立了一個打黃油辦公室10個月花了800萬\n275548\t297087\t當時是由常會律師事務所得標那計畫主持人叫袁秀慧他的顧問叫蘇孔志後來我們有跟你們調資料你們有給我看他因為我非常好奇為什麼打黃牛要成立一個黃牛辦公室啊所以八百萬怎麼分配呢就看了一下結果發現真的很奇怪這個案子\n297788\t322917\t第一,他光人力,包括計畫主持人、協同主持人、專案經理還有辦公室督導,加上辦公室的人員五位,成立這個辦公室有九個人。就是說文化部為了打黃流,成立一個打黃流國家隊,然後另外又請了九個人來做這個事情。第二,就是說你已經請了人,然後那些人的業務範圍內的工作,還要另外再付他錢。\n324668\t340227\t舉例來講 我有一個紅色畫起來叫做客訴報表會診他每個月他要出一個民眾打來的客訴的報表可能是一個Excel你一個月還要給他3萬塊阿我不是已經請人來做這個事了嗎我還要他做的事情我還要額外給他錢\n341428\t363421\t好比說我今天請了一個國會助理我一個月給他五萬結果他每次幫我寫質詢稿還要給我案件記酬這感覺非常不合理啊然後另外我們再來看什麼電腦處理費裡面還有一個叫電腦使用時間費就是說欸我們已經給了他這個錢了但是呢他只要有用到他辦公室電腦我另外還要再給錢\n365310\t389348\t還有付一個瓷片的費用我不知道我們這個年代還有人在用瓷片也是讓我覺得很奇怪那另外還有一個行政管理費就已經付錢給他們那麼多的薪水了然後還要再給他行政管理費所以這個預算的編列我真的覺得非常奇怪剛剛我們在講文化資產保護都說沒錢可是打黃牛的錢是可以這樣隨便給\n391277\t416717\t那我不知道部長你這樣乍看之下你覺得有沒有很奇怪?乍看?對,乍看有沒有很奇怪?或者是我剛剛聽我剛剛講完我請一個助理然後我那個助理幫我寫一個諮詢稿還要另外跟我收錢或者是他幫我準備一些PP PowerPoint還要跟我收錢你覺得合理嗎?我覺得我請次長回答好不好?等一下部長你回答啦好不好?\n417990\t418290\t法律專訓流程設計\n436042\t453716\t部長你沒關係你先稍微看一下後面還有其他資料我秀一下那這個標案的人全部都綠油油比如說這個顧問蘇孔志他就是民進黨的政策會副執行長之前的然後袁常惠律師以前是也是這個謝長廷的子弟兵\n454497\t454697\t主席\n473731\t487778\t這個然後我們辦公室也有跟你們去要這個案子的結案報告結案報告就是說他到底打了多少黃牛多少黃牛是因為他的關係被抓到然後讓很多本來買不到張學友票的人買到了我看不到這個結案報告書\n489844\t499750\t我不知道說這個案子的成效如何不曉得你知道嗎剛才講元秀會是綠油油這件事我稍微給我一點機會假如我沒有記錯他是柯文哲時代法律的那個主管\n506214\t532545\t是局長那也有可能現在跟柯文哲不好啦但是他的現在律師事務所上面的網站是講說他跟謝長廷很好其實我覺得我們台灣最糟糕就是把一個人貼標籤說他是綠還是藍這是他標榜的他標榜的他標榜如果說因為我也很少看到律師事務所他的訴求是他是綠我有沒看過但他的網站上就是這樣我印象中他應該\n533305\t535325\t黃牛專案防制人力勞務採購我們已經花錢成立一個打黃牛國家隊另外一個專案130萬\n555350\t580436\t又來做這個黃牛專案防治人力勞務採購今天沒有時間我先把這些問都點出來你事後再給我報告然後再來我們來看今年因為剛剛那個案子原常會律師事務所的案子是10個月800萬今年呢我們把那個標案延長了變成一年半同樣的標案打黃牛國家隊的案子把它變成一年半然後費用也增加變1500萬\n582156\t586856\t那有人跟我講說得標廠商叫普華律師事務所是嗎?是普華嗎?\n589472\t618125\t是普華嘛對普華裡面有一個合夥人叫賴芳玉只是跟民進黨很多立委是好朋友那再來我們來看一下普華最近的案子他得到113年到114年18個月1500萬的打黃牛辦公室然後他112年也有得到文化部一個法律諮詢服務案148萬這讓我覺得非常奇怪你知道嗎就是我們已經\n619651\t646649\t為了我們已經有了這個法律諮詢的服務案然後我們打黃油又要再找別的律師來諮詢這已經有一個統整的法律諮詢案然後針對特定項目又要再委託別的法律顧問來諮詢我覺得文化部是不是真的錢很多如果錢真的這麼多的話可不可以把一部分的錢撥到文化資產那邊去就是說我們現在文化資產很缺費用啊\n647689\t665610\t因為今天時間關係我先把這些問題點出來就像說事後部長可不可以了解一下因為你也是剛上任好不好謝謝委員提這個問題我們來因為感覺文化部錢真的非常多可以這樣花的文化部錢不多啦我覺得這些就很多我剛剛隨便念就很多嘛\n667732\t678822\t關鍵是第一個幫人民省錢你把那些標案審視一下第二打黃標問題還是要做不是說只是把錢八包出去了因為劉德華演唱會就要來了好我們會寫一個報告謝謝\n","txt":"主席要慢慢請部長,謝謝好,有請部長葉委員好,我們又見面了對,部長好,謝謝我們今天談文化資產保存因為我們板橋有林家花園應該是國定古蹟最近因為那個菜刀坊零四零三地震之後有毀損然後地方政府有跟中央申請補助不知道下來沒有\n何準啊?何準多少錢?我想知不知,我自己想回答一下。委員我們再查一下,因為我們才發生在第一週。就是這個會全額補助嘛對不對?我們那個速度可不可以快一點好不好?因為這個林家花園是我們板橋很重要的地標啦。\n〈文化資產保存法〉\n文化資產他被提報他被提報成為要變成文化資產的時候他的保存維護修繕都要仰賴文化部所給的B類補助嘛對不對但是B類補助是不是預算有限所以導致於說很多補助他沒辦法及時也沒辦法達到比如說\n相當的額度所以就會造成一個狀況就是他那個文化資產因為沒有辦法及時修繕造成他的價值不斷的減損那這個問題其實蠻嚴重的那我不知道說文化部有沒有想要針對這個問題做提出一些對岸策略出來有沒有\n老師請文字局局長回答好 葉委員 第一個我們當然是積極地爭取預算像跟誰爭取跟像行政院像我們我剛才提到的全國的古蹟歷史建築的修補助的一些修復經費大概都是我們一個中層計畫叫做歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫的中層計畫已經18年了今年第19年都是靠這個計畫去年在第5期6年計畫不用講那麼細喔因為我們沒有那麼多時間所以我只是跟你講問題很嚴重啦是是\n我們不然取高可寡啦講的好像文化資產我們都重視但實際上在地方很多破損要申請補助拿不到嘛然後他他不斷的毀損價值遞減你到時候要修繕的時候你要花更多的錢啊所以這部分我覺得是比較急的問題要解決第二個問題是很多我們的民眾啊他他們家的家產啊如果被劃定為文化資產的時候其實都不高興你有發現這件事嗎很少人是說哎呀我很高興我們家被劃成文化資產的\n主要就是給的獎勵太少了嘛那給的獎勵少又影響到他去處分這個財產嘛所以他們都不高興那常常在地方就造成很多對立啊那這個部分我不曉得能不能解決比如說在修法或者是在給相關的獎勵方面可以多一點讓他覺得做這個事情很好願意配合 有可能嘛\n好,委員,就是現有的話我們有一些獎勵措施,但是我知道也不夠你有沒有去了解一下那些被列為文化資產的那些人,他們的心情如何是,委員講的的確是事實阿你們都視而不見阿這是我長期觀察到的問題啦,剛好今天是這個主題我就反映給你們,我希望說不管是在補助的額度跟速度\n還有包括就是有人如果他的家產被劃為文化資產相對應的獎勵我覺得一定要提高啦不然就是取高合寡講得好像講得很厲害這樣子我們很重視實際上更無法落實\n接下來我要關心一下黃牛票的事張學友演唱會剛結束劉德娃又要來了張學友那時候的票很多人都很多抱怨因為黃牛的問題\n我上次也關心過 文化部因為打黃油成立了一個打黃油辦公室10個月花了800萬\n當時是由常會律師事務所得標那計畫主持人叫袁秀慧他的顧問叫蘇孔志後來我們有跟你們調資料你們有給我看他因為我非常好奇為什麼打黃牛要成立一個黃牛辦公室啊所以八百萬怎麼分配呢就看了一下結果發現真的很奇怪這個案子\n第一,他光人力,包括計畫主持人、協同主持人、專案經理還有辦公室督導,加上辦公室的人員五位,成立這個辦公室有九個人。就是說文化部為了打黃流,成立一個打黃流國家隊,然後另外又請了九個人來做這個事情。第二,就是說你已經請了人,然後那些人的業務範圍內的工作,還要另外再付他錢。\n舉例來講 我有一個紅色畫起來叫做客訴報表會診他每個月他要出一個民眾打來的客訴的報表可能是一個Excel你一個月還要給他3萬塊阿我不是已經請人來做這個事了嗎我還要他做的事情我還要額外給他錢\n好比說我今天請了一個國會助理我一個月給他五萬結果他每次幫我寫質詢稿還要給我案件記酬這感覺非常不合理啊然後另外我們再來看什麼電腦處理費裡面還有一個叫電腦使用時間費就是說欸我們已經給了他這個錢了但是呢他只要有用到他辦公室電腦我另外還要再給錢\n還有付一個瓷片的費用我不知道我們這個年代還有人在用瓷片也是讓我覺得很奇怪那另外還有一個行政管理費就已經付錢給他們那麼多的薪水了然後還要再給他行政管理費所以這個預算的編列我真的覺得非常奇怪剛剛我們在講文化資產保護都說沒錢可是打黃牛的錢是可以這樣隨便給\n那我不知道部長你這樣乍看之下你覺得有沒有很奇怪?乍看?對,乍看有沒有很奇怪?或者是我剛剛聽我剛剛講完我請一個助理然後我那個助理幫我寫一個諮詢稿還要另外跟我收錢或者是他幫我準備一些PP PowerPoint還要跟我收錢你覺得合理嗎?我覺得我請次長回答好不好?等一下部長你回答啦好不好?\n法律專訓流程設計\n部長你沒關係你先稍微看一下後面還有其他資料我秀一下那這個標案的人全部都綠油油比如說這個顧問蘇孔志他就是民進黨的政策會副執行長之前的然後袁常惠律師以前是也是這個謝長廷的子弟兵\n主席\n這個然後我們辦公室也有跟你們去要這個案子的結案報告結案報告就是說他到底打了多少黃牛多少黃牛是因為他的關係被抓到然後讓很多本來買不到張學友票的人買到了我看不到這個結案報告書\n我不知道說這個案子的成效如何不曉得你知道嗎剛才講元秀會是綠油油這件事我稍微給我一點機會假如我沒有記錯他是柯文哲時代法律的那個主管\n是局長那也有可能現在跟柯文哲不好啦但是他的現在律師事務所上面的網站是講說他跟謝長廷很好其實我覺得我們台灣最糟糕就是把一個人貼標籤說他是綠還是藍這是他標榜的他標榜的他標榜如果說因為我也很少看到律師事務所他的訴求是他是綠我有沒看過但他的網站上就是這樣我印象中他應該\n黃牛專案防制人力勞務採購我們已經花錢成立一個打黃牛國家隊另外一個專案130萬\n又來做這個黃牛專案防治人力勞務採購今天沒有時間我先把這些問都點出來你事後再給我報告然後再來我們來看今年因為剛剛那個案子原常會律師事務所的案子是10個月800萬今年呢我們把那個標案延長了變成一年半同樣的標案打黃牛國家隊的案子把它變成一年半然後費用也增加變1500萬\n那有人跟我講說得標廠商叫普華律師事務所是嗎?是普華嗎?\n是普華嘛對普華裡面有一個合夥人叫賴芳玉只是跟民進黨很多立委是好朋友那再來我們來看一下普華最近的案子他得到113年到114年18個月1500萬的打黃牛辦公室然後他112年也有得到文化部一個法律諮詢服務案148萬這讓我覺得非常奇怪你知道嗎就是我們已經\n為了我們已經有了這個法律諮詢的服務案然後我們打黃油又要再找別的律師來諮詢這已經有一個統整的法律諮詢案然後針對特定項目又要再委託別的法律顧問來諮詢我覺得文化部是不是真的錢很多如果錢真的這麼多的話可不可以把一部分的錢撥到文化資產那邊去就是說我們現在文化資產很缺費用啊\n因為今天時間關係我先把這些問題點出來就像說事後部長可不可以了解一下因為你也是剛上任好不好謝謝委員提這個問題我們來因為感覺文化部錢真的非常多可以這樣花的文化部錢不多啦我覺得這些就很多我剛剛隨便念就很多嘛\n關鍵是第一個幫人民省錢你把那些標案審視一下第二打黃標問題還是要做不是說只是把錢八包出去了因為劉德華演唱會就要來了好我們會寫一個報告謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.521 --> 00:10.324\n主席要慢慢請部長,謝謝好,有請部長葉委員好,我們又見面了對,部長好,謝謝我們今天談文化資產保存因為我們板橋有林家花園應該是國定古蹟最近因為那個菜刀坊零四零三地震之後有毀損然後地方政府有跟中央申請補助不知道下來沒有\n\n00:34.134 --> 00:55.564\n何準啊?何準多少錢?我想知不知,我自己想回答一下。委員我們再查一下,因為我們才發生在第一週。就是這個會全額補助嘛對不對?我們那個速度可不可以快一點好不好?因為這個林家花園是我們板橋很重要的地標啦。\n\n00:56.618 --> 00:57.098\n〈文化資產保存法〉\n\n01:19.689 --> 01:38.917\n文化資產他被提報他被提報成為要變成文化資產的時候他的保存維護修繕都要仰賴文化部所給的B類補助嘛對不對但是B類補助是不是預算有限所以導致於說很多補助他沒辦法及時也沒辦法達到比如說\n\n01:40.197 --> 01:58.017\n相當的額度所以就會造成一個狀況就是他那個文化資產因為沒有辦法及時修繕造成他的價值不斷的減損那這個問題其實蠻嚴重的那我不知道說文化部有沒有想要針對這個問題做提出一些對岸策略出來有沒有\n\n01:59.657 --> 02:28.954\n老師請文字局局長回答好葉委員第一個我們當然是積極地爭取預算像跟誰爭取跟像行政院像我們我剛才提到的全國的古蹟歷史建築的修補助的一些修復經費大概都是我們一個中層計畫叫做歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫的中層計畫已經18年了今年第19年都是靠這個計畫去年在第5期6年計畫不用講那麼細喔因為我們沒有那麼多時間所以我只是跟你講問題很嚴重啦是是\n\n02:29.474 --> 02:58.476\n我們不然取高可寡啦講的好像文化資產我們都重視但實際上在地方很多破損要申請補助拿不到嘛然後他他不斷的毀損價值遞減你到時候要修繕的時候你要花更多的錢啊所以這部分我覺得是比較急的問題要解決第二個問題是很多我們的民眾啊他他們家的家產啊如果被劃定為文化資產的時候其實都不高興你有發現這件事嗎很少人是說哎呀我很高興我們家被劃成文化資產的\n\n02:59.873 --> 03:20.827\n主要就是給的獎勵太少了嘛那給的獎勵少又影響到他去處分這個財產嘛所以他們都不高興那常常在地方就造成很多對立啊那這個部分我不曉得能不能解決比如說在修法或者是在給相關的獎勵方面可以多一點讓他覺得做這個事情很好願意配合有可能嘛\n\n03:23.220 --> 03:47.283\n好,委員,就是現有的話我們有一些獎勵措施,但是我知道也不夠你有沒有去了解一下那些被列為文化資產的那些人,他們的心情如何是,委員講的的確是事實阿你們都視而不見阿這是我長期觀察到的問題啦,剛好今天是這個主題我就反映給你們,我希望說不管是在補助的額度跟速度\n\n03:48.204 --> 04:02.076\n還有包括就是有人如果他的家產被劃為文化資產相對應的獎勵我覺得一定要提高啦不然就是取高合寡講得好像講得很厲害這樣子我們很重視實際上更無法落實\n\n04:03.517 --> 04:09.741\n接下來我要關心一下黃牛票的事張學友演唱會剛結束劉德娃又要來了張學友那時候的票很多人都很多抱怨因為黃牛的問題\n\n04:26.957 --> 04:33.611\n我上次也關心過文化部因為打黃油成立了一個打黃油辦公室10個月花了800萬\n\n04:35.548 --> 04:57.087\n當時是由常會律師事務所得標那計畫主持人叫袁秀慧他的顧問叫蘇孔志後來我們有跟你們調資料你們有給我看他因為我非常好奇為什麼打黃牛要成立一個黃牛辦公室啊所以八百萬怎麼分配呢就看了一下結果發現真的很奇怪這個案子\n\n04:57.788 --> 05:22.917\n第一,他光人力,包括計畫主持人、協同主持人、專案經理還有辦公室督導,加上辦公室的人員五位,成立這個辦公室有九個人。就是說文化部為了打黃流,成立一個打黃流國家隊,然後另外又請了九個人來做這個事情。第二,就是說你已經請了人,然後那些人的業務範圍內的工作,還要另外再付他錢。\n\n05:24.668 --> 05:40.227\n舉例來講我有一個紅色畫起來叫做客訴報表會診他每個月他要出一個民眾打來的客訴的報表可能是一個Excel你一個月還要給他3萬塊阿我不是已經請人來做這個事了嗎我還要他做的事情我還要額外給他錢\n\n05:41.428 --> 06:03.421\n好比說我今天請了一個國會助理我一個月給他五萬結果他每次幫我寫質詢稿還要給我案件記酬這感覺非常不合理啊然後另外我們再來看什麼電腦處理費裡面還有一個叫電腦使用時間費就是說欸我們已經給了他這個錢了但是呢他只要有用到他辦公室電腦我另外還要再給錢\n\n06:05.310 --> 06:29.348\n還有付一個瓷片的費用我不知道我們這個年代還有人在用瓷片也是讓我覺得很奇怪那另外還有一個行政管理費就已經付錢給他們那麼多的薪水了然後還要再給他行政管理費所以這個預算的編列我真的覺得非常奇怪剛剛我們在講文化資產保護都說沒錢可是打黃牛的錢是可以這樣隨便給\n\n06:31.277 --> 06:56.717\n那我不知道部長你這樣乍看之下你覺得有沒有很奇怪?乍看?對,乍看有沒有很奇怪?或者是我剛剛聽我剛剛講完我請一個助理然後我那個助理幫我寫一個諮詢稿還要另外跟我收錢或者是他幫我準備一些PPPowerPoint還要跟我收錢你覺得合理嗎?我覺得我請次長回答好不好?等一下部長你回答啦好不好?\n\n06:57.990 --> 06:58.290\n法律專訓流程設計\n\n07:16.042 --> 07:33.716\n部長你沒關係你先稍微看一下後面還有其他資料我秀一下那這個標案的人全部都綠油油比如說這個顧問蘇孔志他就是民進黨的政策會副執行長之前的然後袁常惠律師以前是也是這個謝長廷的子弟兵\n\n07:34.497 --> 07:34.697\n主席\n\n07:53.731 --> 08:07.778\n這個然後我們辦公室也有跟你們去要這個案子的結案報告結案報告就是說他到底打了多少黃牛多少黃牛是因為他的關係被抓到然後讓很多本來買不到張學友票的人買到了我看不到這個結案報告書\n\n08:09.844 --> 08:19.750\n我不知道說這個案子的成效如何不曉得你知道嗎剛才講元秀會是綠油油這件事我稍微給我一點機會假如我沒有記錯他是柯文哲時代法律的那個主管\n\n08:26.214 --> 08:52.545\n是局長那也有可能現在跟柯文哲不好啦但是他的現在律師事務所上面的網站是講說他跟謝長廷很好其實我覺得我們台灣最糟糕就是把一個人貼標籤說他是綠還是藍這是他標榜的他標榜的他標榜如果說因為我也很少看到律師事務所他的訴求是他是綠我有沒看過但他的網站上就是這樣我印象中他應該\n\n08:53.305 --> 08:55.325\n黃牛專案防制人力勞務採購我們已經花錢成立一個打黃牛國家隊另外一個專案130萬\n\n09:15.350 --> 09:40.436\n又來做這個黃牛專案防治人力勞務採購今天沒有時間我先把這些問都點出來你事後再給我報告然後再來我們來看今年因為剛剛那個案子原常會律師事務所的案子是10個月800萬今年呢我們把那個標案延長了變成一年半同樣的標案打黃牛國家隊的案子把它變成一年半然後費用也增加變1500萬\n\n09:42.156 --> 09:46.856\n那有人跟我講說得標廠商叫普華律師事務所是嗎?是普華嗎?\n\n09:49.472 --> 10:18.125\n是普華嘛對普華裡面有一個合夥人叫賴芳玉只是跟民進黨很多立委是好朋友那再來我們來看一下普華最近的案子他得到113年到114年18個月1500萬的打黃牛辦公室然後他112年也有得到文化部一個法律諮詢服務案148萬這讓我覺得非常奇怪你知道嗎就是我們已經\n\n10:19.651 --> 10:46.649\n為了我們已經有了這個法律諮詢的服務案然後我們打黃油又要再找別的律師來諮詢這已經有一個統整的法律諮詢案然後針對特定項目又要再委託別的法律顧問來諮詢我覺得文化部是不是真的錢很多如果錢真的這麼多的話可不可以把一部分的錢撥到文化資產那邊去就是說我們現在文化資產很缺費用啊\n\n10:47.689 --> 11:05.610\n因為今天時間關係我先把這些問題點出來就像說事後部長可不可以了解一下因為你也是剛上任好不好謝謝委員提這個問題我們來因為感覺文化部錢真的非常多可以這樣花的文化部錢不多啦我覺得這些就很多我剛剛隨便念就很多嘛\n\n11:07.732 --> 11:18.822\n關鍵是第一個幫人民省錢你把那些標案審視一下第二打黃標問題還是要做不是說只是把錢八包出去了因為劉德華演唱會就要來了好我們會寫一個報告謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.521,"end":10.324,"text":"主席要慢慢請部長,謝謝好,有請部長葉委員好,我們又見面了對,部長好,謝謝我們今天談文化資產保存因為我們板橋有林家花園應該是國定古蹟最近因為那個菜刀坊零四零三地震之後有毀損然後地方政府有跟中央申請補助不知道下來沒有"},{"start":34.134,"end":55.564,"text":"何準啊?何準多少錢?我想知不知,我自己想回答一下。委員我們再查一下,因為我們才發生在第一週。就是這個會全額補助嘛對不對?我們那個速度可不可以快一點好不好?因為這個林家花園是我們板橋很重要的地標啦。"},{"start":56.618,"end":57.098,"text":"〈文化資產保存法〉"},{"start":79.689,"end":98.917,"text":"文化資產他被提報他被提報成為要變成文化資產的時候他的保存維護修繕都要仰賴文化部所給的B類補助嘛對不對但是B類補助是不是預算有限所以導致於說很多補助他沒辦法及時也沒辦法達到比如說"},{"start":100.197,"end":118.017,"text":"相當的額度所以就會造成一個狀況就是他那個文化資產因為沒有辦法及時修繕造成他的價值不斷的減損那這個問題其實蠻嚴重的那我不知道說文化部有沒有想要針對這個問題做提出一些對岸策略出來有沒有"},{"start":119.657,"end":148.954,"text":"老師請文字局局長回答好 葉委員 第一個我們當然是積極地爭取預算像跟誰爭取跟像行政院像我們我剛才提到的全國的古蹟歷史建築的修補助的一些修復經費大概都是我們一個中層計畫叫做歷史與文化資產維護發展計畫的中層計畫已經18年了今年第19年都是靠這個計畫去年在第5期6年計畫不用講那麼細喔因為我們沒有那麼多時間所以我只是跟你講問題很嚴重啦是是"},{"start":149.474,"end":178.476,"text":"我們不然取高可寡啦講的好像文化資產我們都重視但實際上在地方很多破損要申請補助拿不到嘛然後他他不斷的毀損價值遞減你到時候要修繕的時候你要花更多的錢啊所以這部分我覺得是比較急的問題要解決第二個問題是很多我們的民眾啊他他們家的家產啊如果被劃定為文化資產的時候其實都不高興你有發現這件事嗎很少人是說哎呀我很高興我們家被劃成文化資產的"},{"start":179.873,"end":200.827,"text":"主要就是給的獎勵太少了嘛那給的獎勵少又影響到他去處分這個財產嘛所以他們都不高興那常常在地方就造成很多對立啊那這個部分我不曉得能不能解決比如說在修法或者是在給相關的獎勵方面可以多一點讓他覺得做這個事情很好願意配合 有可能嘛"},{"start":203.22,"end":227.283,"text":"好,委員,就是現有的話我們有一些獎勵措施,但是我知道也不夠你有沒有去了解一下那些被列為文化資產的那些人,他們的心情如何是,委員講的的確是事實阿你們都視而不見阿這是我長期觀察到的問題啦,剛好今天是這個主題我就反映給你們,我希望說不管是在補助的額度跟速度"},{"start":228.204,"end":242.076,"text":"還有包括就是有人如果他的家產被劃為文化資產相對應的獎勵我覺得一定要提高啦不然就是取高合寡講得好像講得很厲害這樣子我們很重視實際上更無法落實"},{"start":243.517,"end":249.741,"text":"接下來我要關心一下黃牛票的事張學友演唱會剛結束劉德娃又要來了張學友那時候的票很多人都很多抱怨因為黃牛的問題"},{"start":266.957,"end":273.611,"text":"我上次也關心過 文化部因為打黃油成立了一個打黃油辦公室10個月花了800萬"},{"start":275.548,"end":297.087,"text":"當時是由常會律師事務所得標那計畫主持人叫袁秀慧他的顧問叫蘇孔志後來我們有跟你們調資料你們有給我看他因為我非常好奇為什麼打黃牛要成立一個黃牛辦公室啊所以八百萬怎麼分配呢就看了一下結果發現真的很奇怪這個案子"},{"start":297.788,"end":322.917,"text":"第一,他光人力,包括計畫主持人、協同主持人、專案經理還有辦公室督導,加上辦公室的人員五位,成立這個辦公室有九個人。就是說文化部為了打黃流,成立一個打黃流國家隊,然後另外又請了九個人來做這個事情。第二,就是說你已經請了人,然後那些人的業務範圍內的工作,還要另外再付他錢。"},{"start":324.668,"end":340.227,"text":"舉例來講 我有一個紅色畫起來叫做客訴報表會診他每個月他要出一個民眾打來的客訴的報表可能是一個Excel你一個月還要給他3萬塊阿我不是已經請人來做這個事了嗎我還要他做的事情我還要額外給他錢"},{"start":341.428,"end":363.421,"text":"好比說我今天請了一個國會助理我一個月給他五萬結果他每次幫我寫質詢稿還要給我案件記酬這感覺非常不合理啊然後另外我們再來看什麼電腦處理費裡面還有一個叫電腦使用時間費就是說欸我們已經給了他這個錢了但是呢他只要有用到他辦公室電腦我另外還要再給錢"},{"start":365.31,"end":389.348,"text":"還有付一個瓷片的費用我不知道我們這個年代還有人在用瓷片也是讓我覺得很奇怪那另外還有一個行政管理費就已經付錢給他們那麼多的薪水了然後還要再給他行政管理費所以這個預算的編列我真的覺得非常奇怪剛剛我們在講文化資產保護都說沒錢可是打黃牛的錢是可以這樣隨便給"},{"start":391.277,"end":416.717,"text":"那我不知道部長你這樣乍看之下你覺得有沒有很奇怪?乍看?對,乍看有沒有很奇怪?或者是我剛剛聽我剛剛講完我請一個助理然後我那個助理幫我寫一個諮詢稿還要另外跟我收錢或者是他幫我準備一些PP PowerPoint還要跟我收錢你覺得合理嗎?我覺得我請次長回答好不好?等一下部長你回答啦好不好?"},{"start":417.99,"end":418.29,"text":"法律專訓流程設計"},{"start":436.042,"end":453.716,"text":"部長你沒關係你先稍微看一下後面還有其他資料我秀一下那這個標案的人全部都綠油油比如說這個顧問蘇孔志他就是民進黨的政策會副執行長之前的然後袁常惠律師以前是也是這個謝長廷的子弟兵"},{"start":454.497,"end":454.697,"text":"主席"},{"start":473.731,"end":487.778,"text":"這個然後我們辦公室也有跟你們去要這個案子的結案報告結案報告就是說他到底打了多少黃牛多少黃牛是因為他的關係被抓到然後讓很多本來買不到張學友票的人買到了我看不到這個結案報告書"},{"start":489.844,"end":499.75,"text":"我不知道說這個案子的成效如何不曉得你知道嗎剛才講元秀會是綠油油這件事我稍微給我一點機會假如我沒有記錯他是柯文哲時代法律的那個主管"},{"start":506.214,"end":532.545,"text":"是局長那也有可能現在跟柯文哲不好啦但是他的現在律師事務所上面的網站是講說他跟謝長廷很好其實我覺得我們台灣最糟糕就是把一個人貼標籤說他是綠還是藍這是他標榜的他標榜的他標榜如果說因為我也很少看到律師事務所他的訴求是他是綠我有沒看過但他的網站上就是這樣我印象中他應該"},{"start":533.305,"end":535.325,"text":"黃牛專案防制人力勞務採購我們已經花錢成立一個打黃牛國家隊另外一個專案130萬"},{"start":555.35,"end":580.436,"text":"又來做這個黃牛專案防治人力勞務採購今天沒有時間我先把這些問都點出來你事後再給我報告然後再來我們來看今年因為剛剛那個案子原常會律師事務所的案子是10個月800萬今年呢我們把那個標案延長了變成一年半同樣的標案打黃牛國家隊的案子把它變成一年半然後費用也增加變1500萬"},{"start":582.156,"end":586.856,"text":"那有人跟我講說得標廠商叫普華律師事務所是嗎?是普華嗎?"},{"start":589.472,"end":618.125,"text":"是普華嘛對普華裡面有一個合夥人叫賴芳玉只是跟民進黨很多立委是好朋友那再來我們來看一下普華最近的案子他得到113年到114年18個月1500萬的打黃牛辦公室然後他112年也有得到文化部一個法律諮詢服務案148萬這讓我覺得非常奇怪你知道嗎就是我們已經"},{"start":619.651,"end":646.649,"text":"為了我們已經有了這個法律諮詢的服務案然後我們打黃油又要再找別的律師來諮詢這已經有一個統整的法律諮詢案然後針對特定項目又要再委託別的法律顧問來諮詢我覺得文化部是不是真的錢很多如果錢真的這麼多的話可不可以把一部分的錢撥到文化資產那邊去就是說我們現在文化資產很缺費用啊"},{"start":647.689,"end":665.61,"text":"因為今天時間關係我先把這些問題點出來就像說事後部長可不可以了解一下因為你也是剛上任好不好謝謝委員提這個問題我們來因為感覺文化部錢真的非常多可以這樣花的文化部錢不多啦我覺得這些就很多我剛剛隨便念就很多嘛"},{"start":667.732,"end":678.822,"text":"關鍵是第一個幫人民省錢你把那些標案審視一下第二打黃標問題還是要做不是說只是把錢八包出去了因為劉德華演唱會就要來了好我們會寫一個報告謝謝"}]}}}}