{"id":154547,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154547","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4edc3fae9cb29e97d85d7d21c16e6db1412a25d0aa7d1a496034d888474fb5f97f55414fe2fddc5c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"17:03:34 - 17:19:16","影片長度":"00:15:42","會議時間":"2024-07-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、7月5日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月9日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-05","start_time":"2024-07-05T17:03:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-05T17:19:16+08:00","duration":942,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議","id":"院會-11-1-21","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":551,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（17時3分）主席好，麻煩卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：院長午安，辛苦了。我來自民間團體，也長期關心兒少及交通安全。今天我先針對在這個會期裡面一直想解決的一些問題就教一下院長及部長。","第一個是無照駕駛的問題。從這個數據可以看到，平均每一年大概7萬人的傷亡，而且累犯比例非常高，事故件數近5年大概成長了22%，肇事的死亡率高，比酒駕更嚴重，所以我想問的是，除了提高罰鍰以外，針對其他更有效的管理措施，像扣車和連帶處罰，不知道部裡面有沒有修法的打算？"],["李部長孟諺：現在我們確實是對無照駕駛有研擬更新的包括提高罰責，讓無照駕駛的部分可以得到抑制，至於說是不是要有扣車跟連坐、連帶處罰，就是說跟他同乘的，或是車子借給這個無照駕駛人使用的，是不是有連帶的處罰……"],["林委員月琴：是，部長，為什麼……"],["李部長孟諺：這個部分，我們還要再開會來廣泛徵求各界的意見。"],["林委員月琴：我會在這時候提，是因為未成年無照駕駛真的死傷非常地嚴重，當然不是只有未成年，事實上，成年無照駕駛這個問題也造成每一年有近千億的社會成本，可能要去考慮。","接下來要問的是，針對幼童專用車，目前是不安全又沒得選，為什麼不安全？現在只能靠一款車，可是它沒有安全氣囊、沒有任何所謂的主被動安全系統，也沒有碰撞測試，也請部長很簡單的回答，何時能夠讓我們有安全的幼童專用車可以搭乘？未來是不是有幼童專用車改善的2.0版方案？"],["李部長孟諺：是，跟委員報告，現在的幼童專用車，其實依照目前的規範，我記得大概是民國九十幾年，那時候就已經有訂，它必須經過40種安全的測試跟檢驗，所以目前是已經有相關的規定，但是碰撞的測試、碰撞的檢驗，或者是兒童座椅，等於是座椅的安全帶，因為過去有討論過座椅安全帶要不要強制設置，有很多專家是擔心萬一發生狀況的時候，兒童不會自己解開安全帶，所以當時這個部分有被擱置，不過我們會再重啟……"],["林委員月琴：對，部長，因為事實上是二到六歲的孩子在乘坐幼童專用車，目前有兩千多輛，而且我們國內只有一款車，真的是沒得選，所以我希望2.0版儘快能夠出來，來照顧我們的孩子……"],["李部長孟諺：就是說在40項檢驗之外，對於碰撞是不是造成傷害、怎麼樣去補強，或是說增加檢驗，還有包括……"],["林委員月琴：不過，我知道中華得利卡是沒有所謂的40項碰撞甚至相關的試驗，所以我覺得可能還是要去考慮這一塊。可是今天我主要的議題是在於，因為今天這個題目，我是背負著公民團體的期待來進行質詢的，所以也希望我們一起幫幫忙來解決這樣一個狀況。","首先，我要問院長，你同不同意現在交通違規的罰鍰是政府的提款機？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該不是吧！"],["林委員月琴：對，我想也是。可是臺灣從交通違規被罰到罰鍰的分配，很常被我們的路權團體嘲笑是一臺提款機、永動機，為什麼他們這樣講？第一，我們的道路環境不佳造成違規，然後造成人民被罰，被罰之後，我們的罰鍰又沒有用於我們的環境改善，然後再度的違規、再度的被罰。第二，我們的罰鍰事實上是用於購買科技的執法設備，並沒有用到道路環境的改善，可是現在科技執法不記點，放任我們的高風險駕駛人繼續危害弱勢用路人，形成了一個惡性循環。","院長跟部長看看這些道路環境設計的問題，是不是一直在陷害我們的用路人？這則新聞提到的是騎樓停滿車，沒路可走，行人被取締不靠邊走。可是我要問的是，如何靠邊走？已經是沒路可走了。從下一則新聞可以看到，之前在文化大學周遭因為沒有人行道，行人必須貼著路邊走，然後被撞死的是一個便當店老闆娘，他同樣也是被警察講說：怎麼不靠邊走呢？可是我一樣要問的是：如何靠邊走？就已經沒路可走了。這些新聞不是特例，因為現狀就是我們有很多的弱勢用路人、行人跟我們的兒少和身障者都被迫要與車爭道。所以前一陣子，大家在吵微罪不記點的時候，我們的職業駕駛人工會都來跟我講，很多時候不是他們不想守法，是道路環境太差了，陷他們於不義。交通路權團體跟我們的身障家長族群在抱怨，政府在放寬記點制度的時候，同時有沒有去考慮到我們交通環境的改善？這些配套措施到底在哪裡？所以我想問的是，院長，這些道路環境的改善問題，政府打算怎麼解決，然後要多久時間，會投入多少經費預算，有管考制度嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，委員提到剛剛所說的道路交通違規罰鍰，其中提撥12%作為交通安全及執法的改善，其中有一部分除了優先事項之外，地方政府可以用在道路安全、路面等等的改善工程，其他當然還要做很多，包括周遭違規的取締等等，包括員警各方面要努力。"],["林委員月琴：這次行政院很用心提出這樣的一個政策，現在投入4年400億想要去解決、洗刷我們行人地獄的惡名，不過4年400億的經費不是長期性的，財源也不是穩定性的，也沒有制度化的法源依據，當然我們就會很擔心這樣的計畫可能沒有辦法達到永續安全的目標。所以這次會用這個主題來質詢，就是想透過這樣的質詢來幫你找到我們的錢藏在哪裡。","這是交通部提供的圖表，我們的罰鍰收入總額年年增加，其中收到最多分配款項的是各地方政府，每一年大概有130億，六都大概10到20億。剛剛前面講4年400億，一年大概有100億補助到22縣市，如果一年就有130億用在道路環境的改善，是不是就可以解決我們前面講的惡性循環？","院長，依照現行規定，在國道上的違規罰鍰收入有17%要運用在交通環境改善，你認為多少比例的罰鍰收入，就像我們剛剛講的給地方政府的，多少比例的罰鍰收入放在交通環境改善上比較合情合理？"],["卓院長榮泰：這可能要看現在收來的款項依照目前的比例分配之後，它的執行狀況如何，可以再做進一步的檢討。"],["李部長孟諺：也跟委員報告，現在以4年400億來做一些人行路口的改善，其實很多時候是擔心地方的執行量能，因為它做這些改善往往要去取消停車格或者是排除占用等等，反而有時候會擔心它執行不完，但是我覺得未來有一個長久的財源是非常好的。其實除了罰款的財源之外，還有另外一個可以考慮，就是現在我們都有撥給六都汽燃費，汽燃費也是專款專用用在道路，如果這兩筆錢都能夠有一定比例是特別針對安全設施的改善，我覺得可以提升這個部分。"],["林委員月琴：根據道路交通違規罰鍰收入分配及運用辦法第三條，本來就明定各縣市舉發的罰鍰收入有75%是進到縣市政府的金庫當中，可是最特別的就是怎麼運用，事實上沒人曉得、也沒人過問，所以我私底下去問某個縣市的交通局局長，問他這樣的經費你們怎麼用，他說很彈性、沒有設限。如果政府首長在意交通環境的話，的確會用在交通環境的改善，可是如果沒有的話也沒有關係。即便剛才院長講的12%的優先項目裡面，大概也有可能他們不用也沒有關係，因為頂多在道安考評的時候被扣分。更何況剛才院長提的是依據第四條的規定，的確要至少提撥12%作為交通執法和交通安全環境改善。不過可以看到基本上大概只有4項在講執法，2項是在講教育，我們講的交通安全3E政策裡面，包括執法、工程及教育，可是這裡面都沒有提到工程，所以也想問兩位知不知道國外對於這類交通罰鍰收入到底會怎麼運用？","日本稱為「反則金」的違規罰款，基本上是按照事故件數、人口數及改善道路長度，依比例分配地方，可是有要求專款專用於設施設置與道路環境改善，跟剛才說的地方執行很彈性、沒設限很不一樣。美國加州也有所謂的「交通安全基金」，同時也要求要專用於設施設備的購置跟事故傷害的預防，而且要求不可以用於警察人員薪酬的貼補，但可以用於導護人員的貼補。事實上我們的道交處罰條例本來就有講要有一定比例專款專用，用於改善道路交通，所以想問部長這邊一定比例的專款專用，究竟在實務執行上哪一部細則辦法有明定這一定比例？比例是多少？而且要用在改善道路交通。"],["李部長孟諺：是。我們現在有一個罰款分配辦法第四條有明定它的比例，裡面有規定至少12%用在道路安全設施，我想之後我們再來找各縣市政府開會，看怎麼樣把這個部分更明確化；另外，也給未來的包括審計單位，他們對地方政府在執行上最後的事後審計可以去監控、去瞭解有沒有專款專用，包括汽燃費是不是都用在道路上，讓這些錢都能夠用在路口上。"],["林委員月琴：部長，因為我剛剛提到的第三條是70%分配到地方政府，對地方政府裡邊的88%，我們是沒有管控的，其中的12%，如你剛剛講的……"],["李部長孟諺：對。"],["林委員月琴：的確它有講到改善環境，但重點是其中的六項優先項目是執法的配備跟教育，完全沒有提到道路環境，所以這就是我們擔心的。甚至也可以說那88%可不可以明定為道路環境的改善，而不是讓各地方政府把這個金庫用在不是道路環境改善當中，那就會形成我剛剛前面講的，永遠就是一個惡性循環。因為道路環境不佳，人民事實上違規被罰，被罰之後罰鍰又沒有用在道路環境改善，又再度地被罰，這不會是一件好事啦！","當然我們很期待是不是可以這樣來考量，我知道這個涉及、牽扯到地方政府的權限，當然也不是我們今天在這邊談了、說了就算，為求謹慎，如何去訂定地方政府專用於道路環境改善的比例，需要中央跟地方一起來充分溝通，所以是不是中央可以邀集地方政府來充分溝通？或許可以參考一下我們剛剛提到的國道建設管理基金的比例，明定17%，至少在88%裡面可不可以訂一些比例，在12%裡面也可以去考慮要求這部分，而不是道安的分數扣了就算了。","最後就想問，院長和部長在這裡有沒有機會可以承諾讓罰鍰收入設定一定比例？不過，當然也要問你們心目中的那個比例到底是多少，是不是運用在我們的道路環境當中？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的建議，立意非常好，但我們現在要突破的是財政紀律法第七條，政府的收入固定進入一個基金之後，它無法專款專用的指定，所以我們是不是從剛剛部長所說的，在現在的比例之下，對於這些優先支應的事項能夠做明確的規範，讓它在交通安全項下，地方政府考量財源的時候，真的優先支用在交通工程的改善，是不是這樣做會比較不會違背財政紀律法的規定？"],["林委員月琴：好，當然我還是期待，因為我認為如果道路環境不改善的話，人民就是被迫可能是違規、可能是死傷，所以院長未來我們還有7個會期，我們一起努力。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。下一位我們請黃秀芳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":92,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-21","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","羅智強","顏寬恒","呂玉玲","游顥","林俊憲","李柏毅","吳秉叡","張宏陸","蘇巧慧","林月琴","黃秀芳","徐富癸","許智傑","魯明哲","林倩綺","李昆澤"],"page_start":26,"meetingDate":["2024-07-05"],"gazette_id":"1136601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136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78.438, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 78.438, \"end\": 78.458, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 80.802, \"end\": 91.011, \"text\": \"除了提高我們的罰款以外,針對其他更有效的管理措施,像扣車和連帶處罰,不知道部裡邊有沒有修法的打算?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 80.802, \"end\": 80.962, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 80.962, \"end\": 81.222, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 81.222, \"end\": 81.363, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 81.363, \"end\": 81.863, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 81.863, \"end\": 82.043, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 82.043, \"end\": 82.363, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 82.363, \"end\": 82.524, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 82.524, \"end\": 82.684, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 82.684, \"end\": 83.905, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 83.905, 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\"text\": \"現在我們確實是對無照駕駛有研擬更進包括提高罰則讓無照駕駛的部分可以得到抑制至於說是不是要有扣車跟連帶處罰就是說跟他同乘的或是說車子借給無照駕駛使用的是不是有連帶的處罰這個部分我們還要再做開會來廣泛徵求各界的意見\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 93.932, \"end\": 94.032, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.032, \"end\": 94.653, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 94.653, \"end\": 95.373, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 95.373, \"end\": 95.513, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 95.513, \"end\": 96.855, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"駕\"}, {\"word\": \"駛\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 96.855, \"end\": 97.015, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 97.015, \"end\": 97.655, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 97.655, \"end\": 98.035, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 98.035, \"end\": 98.156, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 98.156, 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0.924}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 105.481, \"end\": 106.462, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 106.462, \"end\": 106.582, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 106.582, \"end\": 106.943, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 106.943, \"end\": 107.063, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 107.063, \"end\": 107.163, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 107.163, \"end\": 107.323, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 107.323, \"end\": 108.184, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 108.184, \"end\": 108.884, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 108.884, \"end\": 109.385, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 109.385, \"end\": 109.885, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 109.885, \"end\": 110.245, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 110.245, \"end\": 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\"也造成每一年有近千億的社會成本,可能要去考慮。接下來就想也要問的是,針對幼童專用車,目前我們是不安全又沒得選。為什麼不安全?現在只能靠一款車,可是它沒有安全氣囊,沒有任何所謂的主被動安全系統,也沒有碰撞測試。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 132.932, \"end\": 133.152, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 133.152, \"end\": 133.372, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 133.372, \"end\": 133.553, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 133.553, \"end\": 133.753, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 133.753, \"end\": 133.853, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 133.853, \"end\": 133.993, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 133.993, \"end\": 134.133, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 134.133, \"end\": 134.373, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 134.373, \"end\": 134.714, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 134.714, \"end\": 134.834, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 134.834, \"end\": 135.174, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", 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{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 199.895, \"end\": 200.055, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 200.055, \"end\": 200.255, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 200.255, \"end\": 200.415, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 200.415, \"end\": 200.575, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 200.575, \"end\": 200.875, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 200.875, \"end\": 201.075, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 201.075, \"end\": 201.416, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 201.416, \"end\": 201.836, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 201.836, \"end\": 202.436, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 202.436, \"end\": 202.696, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 202.696, \"end\": 203.296, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 203.296, \"end\": 203.556, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 923.734, \"end\": 923.834, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 923.834, \"end\": 924.014, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 924.014, \"end\": 924.034, \"score\": 0.314}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 924.514, \"end\": 924.534, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:21,943 --> 00:00:25,705\n主席好,麻煩我們的卓院長。請卓院長備詢。林委員好。院長午安,辛苦了。我來自民間團體也長期關心兒少跟交通安全。今天我先針對於在這個會期裡邊一直想解決的一些問題,\n\n2\n00:00:50,888 --> 00:01:18,458\n先來就教一下我們的院長跟部長那第一個事實上是無照駕駛的問題從這個數據可以看到平均每一年大概7萬人的傷亡那而且他累積比例就累犯比例非常高而且事故件數呢但近5年大概成長22%而肇事的死亡率高他堪比酒駕更嚴重所以想問的是\n\n3\n00:01:20,802 --> 00:01:31,011\n除了提高我們的罰款以外,針對其他更有效的管理措施,像扣車和連帶處罰,不知道部裡邊有沒有修法的打算?\n\n4\n00:01:33,932 --> 00:01:59,253\n現在我們確實是對無照駕駛有研擬更進包括提高罰則讓無照駕駛的部分可以得到抑制至於說是不是要有扣車跟連帶處罰就是說跟他同乘的或是說車子借給無照駕駛使用的是不是有連帶的處罰這個部分我們還要再做開會來廣泛徵求各界的意見\n\n5\n00:02:03,686 --> 00:02:11,420\n我會在這時候提示因為未成年無照駕駛真的死傷非常的嚴重所以希望說大概不是只有未成年事實上成年無照駕駛這個問題\n\n6\n00:02:12,932 --> 00:02:34,490\n也造成每一年有近千億的社會成本,可能要去考慮。接下來就想也要問的是,針對幼童專用車,目前我們是不安全又沒得選。為什麼不安全?現在只能靠一款車,可是它沒有安全氣囊,沒有任何所謂的主被動安全系統,也沒有碰撞測試。\n\n7\n00:02:35,526 --> 00:02:47,195\n那我不知道也很簡單的請部長回答就是何時能夠讓我們有安全的幼童專用車可以搭乘未來是不是有幼童專用車改善的2.0版的方案\n\n8\n00:02:48,226 --> 00:02:48,246\n市長\n\n9\n00:03:06,331 --> 00:03:25,517\n但是碰撞的測試、碰撞的檢驗或者是兒童坐椅的等於是坐椅的安全帶因為過去之前有討論過坐椅安全帶要不要強制設置那有很多的專家是擔心萬一有發生狀況的時候兒童不會自己解開安全帶\n\n10\n00:03:26,837 --> 00:03:52,214\n所以當時這個部分有被擱置,不過我們會再重啟。對,是,部長,因為每一天事實上是2到6歲的孩子在乘坐幼童專載車,而且現在目前有2000多輛,而且我們國內只有一款車,真的是沒得選。所以我希望能夠2.0版盡快能夠出來,來照顧孩子。就是說在這個40項檢驗之外,那對於碰撞是不是造成傷害,怎麼樣去補強,或是說增加這個檢驗?\n\n11\n00:03:53,175 --> 00:04:14,725\n不過我知道中華德力卡是沒有所謂的事實上的碰撞的,甚至相關的事項,所以我覺得可能還是要去考慮這一塊。可是今天我主要的議題是在於,因為今天這個題目我是背負著公民團體的期待下來進行質詢的,所以也希望能夠我們一起幫幫忙來解決這樣的一個狀況。\n\n12\n00:04:16,823 --> 00:04:24,514\n首先我要問院長你同不同意現在的交通違規的罰環是政府的提款機?應該不是吧?\n\n13\n00:04:25,301 --> 00:04:51,519\n對我想也是可是臺灣從我們的交通違規被罰到我們的法環的分配的話很常被我們的入權團體嘲笑是一台提款機、永動機為什麼他們這樣講第一我們的道路環境不佳造成違規然後呢造成人民被罰被罰之後我們的法環又沒有用於我們的環境改善然後再度的違規再度的被罰第二我們的法環事實上是用於購買科技的執法設備\n\n14\n00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:52,720\n﹚林月琴\n\n15\n00:05:07,709 --> 00:05:25,980\n請問一下我們看一下院長跟部長看看這些道路的環境設計的問題是不是一直在陷害我們的用路人。這則新聞提到的是騎樓停滿車沒路可走那行人被取締不靠邊走可是我要問的是啊如果靠邊走已經是沒路可走了\n\n16\n00:05:26,580 --> 00:05:37,453\n下一則新聞就可以看到之前在文化大學我們的周遭環境因為沒有人行道而他必須貼著路邊走然後呢被撞死的一個便當店的老闆娘\n\n17\n00:05:38,288 --> 00:05:56,305\n他同樣也是被警察講說怎麼不靠邊走呢可是我一樣要問的是那如何靠邊走就已經沒路可走啦那這些新聞不是特例因為現狀就是我們有很多的弱勢用路人行人跟我們的兒少跟身障者都被迫要與車爭道\n\n18\n00:05:57,594 --> 00:06:22,334\n所以前一陣子大家在草圍最不祭典的時候我們的職業駕駛人工會都來跟我講說很多時候不是他們不想守法是道路環境太差了先他們也不育那交通路權團體跟我們的身障跟家長族群他們也在抱怨也就是政府在放寬祭典制度的時候同時有沒有去考慮到我們交通環境的改善這些配套措施到底在哪邊\n\n19\n00:06:23,355 --> 00:06:35,345\n那所以就想來問的是,院長這些道路環境的改善問題政府打算怎麼解決,然後要多久的時間,會投入多少的經費預算,有管考的制度嗎?\n\n20\n00:06:37,033 --> 00:07:02,641\n謝謝委員。如果委員提到剛剛所說的道路交通違規的罰款其中提撥12%作為交通安全跟這個交通安全跟執法的改善其中有一部分除了優先事項之外地方政府可以用在道路安全路面等等的改善工程那其他當然還要做很多包括這個周遭違規的取締等等這個都要在包括遠景各方面要努力的\n\n21\n00:07:04,036 --> 00:07:15,504\n我想這是我們行政院很用心的就是有這樣的一個政策就是我們現在大概四年四百億的確事實上想要去解決我們洗刷我們行人地獄的這樣子的一個惡名\n\n22\n00:07:16,516 --> 00:07:38,871\n不過這四年四百億這個經費不是長期性的財源也不是穩定性的所以也沒有制度化的法源依據但我們就很擔心說這樣的計畫可能沒有辦法達到永續安全的一個目標所以這次會議用這個主題來質詢就是希望院長想透過這個樣的質詢來幫你找到我們的錢藏在哪裡\n\n23\n00:07:39,631 --> 00:07:39,711\n﹝發言委員﹞\n\n24\n00:07:58,919 --> 00:07:59,039\n﹚林月琴\n\n25\n00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:40,990\n院長如果是依照現行規定的話在國道上我們的違規的罰款收入有17%要運用在交通環境的改善那你認為多少的比例的罰款收入就是我們剛剛講給地方政府的多少的比例收入可以放在交通環境改善上比較合情合理這可能要現在看看他現在收來的款項在目前的比例分配之後他執行的狀況如何可以再做進一步的檢討\n\n26\n00:08:43,534 --> 00:09:03,411\n也跟委員報告其實現在四年四百億來做一些人行路口的這個改善其實很多時候是擔心地方的執行量能因為他做這些改善往往要去比如說取消停車格或者是排除佔用等等所以反而有時候會擔心他執行不完\n\n27\n00:09:03,911 --> 00:09:08,112\n因為我們法規在根據我們的道路交通違規法環的收入分配跟運用辦法的第三條\n\n28\n00:09:32,057 --> 00:09:39,261\n本來就明定說我們各縣市的舉發的罰款收入有75%是進到縣市政府的金庫當中。\n\n29\n00:09:40,509 --> 00:10:05,116\n可是最特別的就是怎麼運用事實上沒人曉得也沒人過問所以我私底下去問某個縣市的交通局局長問他說你們這樣的經費怎麼用他說很難信沒有設限如果政府首長呢他在意交通環境的話的確會用在交通環境的改善可是如果沒有的話也沒有關係即便剛才院長講的那個12%的優先項目裡邊\n\n30\n00:10:07,737 --> 00:10:36,229\n大概有可能他們不用也沒有關係因為頂多道安考評的時候被扣分更何況剛剛院長提的那是應據第四條的規定是提的確是要至少提撥百分之十二來作為交通執法跟我們的交通安全環境改善不過可以看到基本上大概就只有四項是在講執法兩項是在講教育我們講交通安全三一的政策裡邊\n\n31\n00:10:37,048 --> 00:11:03,782\n指法工程跟我們的教育可是這裡邊都沒有提到工程所以也想問兩位知不知道說在國外對於這類的交通罰款的收入到底會怎麼去運用那日本呢稱為反折金的那個違規的罰款呢他們基本上是按照我們的事故件數人口數跟改善道路的長度依比例來分配地方\n\n32\n00:11:04,222 --> 00:11:31,785\n可是有要求專款專用用於我們的設施設置跟道路環境改善跟地方剛才在執行的說很彈性然後沒設限很不一樣那美國加州也有所謂的交通安全基金的一個專用那他同時也是要求要專用於我們的設施設備構置跟事故傷害的預防而且要求不可以用於哪裡\n\n33\n00:11:32,345 --> 00:11:58,560\n警察人員的薪酬的貼補那甚至可以用於的是導護人員的貼補所以我就想問的是在這邊事實上是我們的道交處罰條例裡邊本來就有講說要有一定的比例來專款專用用在我們的改善道路交通所以想問部長這邊的一定比例的專款專用\n\n34\n00:11:59,048 --> 00:12:09,804\n究竟是在實務執行上有哪一步細則辦法有明定說這一定的比例比例是多少而且要用在我們的改善道路交通\n\n35\n00:12:11,091 --> 00:12:35,209\n我們現在有一個罰款分配辦法第4條有明定它的比例那裡面也有規定就是12%至少12%用在這個道路安全設施那我想之後我們再來找各縣市政府再來開會看怎麼樣把這個部分能夠更明確化那另外也給未來的包括審計單位\n\n36\n00:12:36,510 --> 00:12:38,392\n府長,因為我剛剛講齁,我們剛剛第三條講的是75%分配到我們的地方政府。\n\n37\n00:12:58,004 --> 00:13:24,973\n這地方政府裡邊的88%我們是沒有管控的其中的12%如你剛剛講的的確他有講在改善環境可是重點是他的其中的6項優先項目是執法的配備跟教育完全沒有提到道路環境所以這就是我們擔心甚至可不可以也可以講說那88%可不可以明定道路環境的改善而不是讓各地方政府用這個金庫呢\n\n38\n00:13:25,393 --> 00:13:25,413\n拜訪議員\n\n39\n00:13:45,512 --> 00:14:09,397\n所以當然我們就很期待是不是可以這樣來做一個考量因為我知道是這個涉及的有牽扯到地方政府的權限但也不是說我們今天在這邊談了說了就算那所以為求謹慎的話如何去訂定地方政府專用於這種道路環境改善的比例的話\n\n40\n00:14:19,502 --> 00:14:46,941\n我們剛剛提到的國道建設管理基金的比例明定17%至少你的88%裡邊可不可以定一些比例然後在12%裡邊也可以去考慮要求而不是道安的分數扣了就算所以最後就想讓我們的院長和部長在這邊有沒有機會可以承諾這個部分讓華環的收入設定的一定比例不過大家也要問\n\n41\n00:14:47,642 --> 00:14:53,783\n您們心目中的比例到底是多少?是不是運用在我們的道路環境當中?\n\n42\n00:14:55,292 --> 00:15:24,034\n謝謝委員的這個建議利益非常好但是我們現在要突破的是財政紀律法第7條政府的收入固定進入一個基金之後他無法專款專用的指定所以我們是不是從剛剛部長所說的在現在的比例之下對於這些優先之應的事項能夠做明確的規範讓他在交通安全的向下真的地方政府考量在裁員的時候優先之用在交通工程的改善\n\n43\n00:15:24,514 --> 00:15:24,534\n拜訪議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n21943\t25705\t主席好,麻煩我們的卓院長。請卓院長備詢。林委員好。院長午安,辛苦了。我來自民間團體也長期關心兒少跟交通安全。今天我先針對於在這個會期裡邊一直想解決的一些問題,\n50888\t78458\t先來就教一下我們的院長跟部長那第一個事實上是無照駕駛的問題從這個數據可以看到平均每一年大概7萬人的傷亡那而且他累積比例就累犯比例非常高而且事故件數呢但近5年大概成長22%而肇事的死亡率高他堪比酒駕更嚴重所以想問的是\n80802\t91011\t除了提高我們的罰款以外,針對其他更有效的管理措施,像扣車和連帶處罰,不知道部裡邊有沒有修法的打算?\n93932\t119253\t現在我們確實是對無照駕駛有研擬更進包括提高罰則讓無照駕駛的部分可以得到抑制至於說是不是要有扣車跟連帶處罰就是說跟他同乘的或是說車子借給無照駕駛使用的是不是有連帶的處罰這個部分我們還要再做開會來廣泛徵求各界的意見\n123686\t131420\t我會在這時候提示因為未成年無照駕駛真的死傷非常的嚴重所以希望說大概不是只有未成年事實上成年無照駕駛這個問題\n132932\t154490\t也造成每一年有近千億的社會成本,可能要去考慮。接下來就想也要問的是,針對幼童專用車,目前我們是不安全又沒得選。為什麼不安全?現在只能靠一款車,可是它沒有安全氣囊,沒有任何所謂的主被動安全系統,也沒有碰撞測試。\n155526\t167195\t那我不知道也很簡單的請部長回答就是何時能夠讓我們有安全的幼童專用車可以搭乘未來是不是有幼童專用車改善的2.0版的方案\n168226\t168246\t市長\n186331\t205517\t但是碰撞的測試、碰撞的檢驗或者是兒童坐椅的等於是坐椅的安全帶因為過去之前有討論過坐椅安全帶要不要強制設置那有很多的專家是擔心萬一有發生狀況的時候兒童不會自己解開安全帶\n206837\t232214\t所以當時這個部分有被擱置,不過我們會再重啟。對,是,部長,因為每一天事實上是2到6歲的孩子在乘坐幼童專載車,而且現在目前有2000多輛,而且我們國內只有一款車,真的是沒得選。所以我希望能夠2.0版盡快能夠出來,來照顧孩子。就是說在這個40項檢驗之外,那對於碰撞是不是造成傷害,怎麼樣去補強,或是說增加這個檢驗?\n233175\t254725\t不過我知道中華德力卡是沒有所謂的事實上的碰撞的,甚至相關的事項,所以我覺得可能還是要去考慮這一塊。可是今天我主要的議題是在於,因為今天這個題目我是背負著公民團體的期待下來進行質詢的,所以也希望能夠我們一起幫幫忙來解決這樣的一個狀況。\n256823\t264514\t首先我要問院長你同不同意現在的交通違規的罰環是政府的提款機?應該不是吧?\n265301\t291519\t對我想也是可是臺灣從我們的交通違規被罰到我們的法環的分配的話很常被我們的入權團體嘲笑是一台提款機、永動機為什麼他們這樣講第一我們的道路環境不佳造成違規然後呢造成人民被罰被罰之後我們的法環又沒有用於我們的環境改善然後再度的違規再度的被罰第二我們的法環事實上是用於購買科技的執法設備\n292600\t292720\t﹚林月琴\n307709\t325980\t請問一下我們看一下院長跟部長看看這些道路的環境設計的問題是不是一直在陷害我們的用路人。這則新聞提到的是騎樓停滿車沒路可走那行人被取締不靠邊走可是我要問的是啊如果靠邊走已經是沒路可走了\n326580\t337453\t下一則新聞就可以看到之前在文化大學我們的周遭環境因為沒有人行道而他必須貼著路邊走然後呢被撞死的一個便當店的老闆娘\n338288\t356305\t他同樣也是被警察講說怎麼不靠邊走呢可是我一樣要問的是那如何靠邊走就已經沒路可走啦那這些新聞不是特例因為現狀就是我們有很多的弱勢用路人行人跟我們的兒少跟身障者都被迫要與車爭道\n357594\t382334\t所以前一陣子大家在草圍最不祭典的時候我們的職業駕駛人工會都來跟我講說很多時候不是他們不想守法是道路環境太差了先他們也不育那交通路權團體跟我們的身障跟家長族群他們也在抱怨也就是政府在放寬祭典制度的時候同時有沒有去考慮到我們交通環境的改善這些配套措施到底在哪邊\n383355\t395345\t那所以就想來問的是,院長這些道路環境的改善問題政府打算怎麼解決,然後要多久的時間,會投入多少的經費預算,有管考的制度嗎?\n397033\t422641\t謝謝委員。如果委員提到剛剛所說的道路交通違規的罰款其中提撥12%作為交通安全跟這個交通安全跟執法的改善其中有一部分除了優先事項之外地方政府可以用在道路安全路面等等的改善工程那其他當然還要做很多包括這個周遭違規的取締等等這個都要在包括遠景各方面要努力的\n424036\t435504\t我想這是我們行政院很用心的就是有這樣的一個政策就是我們現在大概四年四百億的確事實上想要去解決我們洗刷我們行人地獄的這樣子的一個惡名\n436516\t458871\t不過這四年四百億這個經費不是長期性的財源也不是穩定性的所以也沒有制度化的法源依據但我們就很擔心說這樣的計畫可能沒有辦法達到永續安全的一個目標所以這次會議用這個主題來質詢就是希望院長想透過這個樣的質詢來幫你找到我們的錢藏在哪裡\n459631\t459711\t﹝發言委員﹞\n478919\t479039\t﹚林月琴\n493410\t520990\t院長如果是依照現行規定的話在國道上我們的違規的罰款收入有17%要運用在交通環境的改善那你認為多少的比例的罰款收入就是我們剛剛講給地方政府的多少的比例收入可以放在交通環境改善上比較合情合理這可能要現在看看他現在收來的款項在目前的比例分配之後他執行的狀況如何可以再做進一步的檢討\n523534\t543411\t也跟委員報告其實現在四年四百億來做一些人行路口的這個改善其實很多時候是擔心地方的執行量能因為他做這些改善往往要去比如說取消停車格或者是排除佔用等等所以反而有時候會擔心他執行不完\n543911\t548112\t因為我們法規在根據我們的道路交通違規法環的收入分配跟運用辦法的第三條\n572057\t579261\t本來就明定說我們各縣市的舉發的罰款收入有75%是進到縣市政府的金庫當中。\n580509\t605116\t可是最特別的就是怎麼運用事實上沒人曉得也沒人過問所以我私底下去問某個縣市的交通局局長問他說你們這樣的經費怎麼用他說很難信沒有設限如果政府首長呢他在意交通環境的話的確會用在交通環境的改善可是如果沒有的話也沒有關係即便剛才院長講的那個12%的優先項目裡邊\n607737\t636229\t大概有可能他們不用也沒有關係因為頂多道安考評的時候被扣分更何況剛剛院長提的那是應據第四條的規定是提的確是要至少提撥百分之十二來作為交通執法跟我們的交通安全環境改善不過可以看到基本上大概就只有四項是在講執法兩項是在講教育我們講交通安全三一的政策裡邊\n637048\t663782\t指法工程跟我們的教育可是這裡邊都沒有提到工程所以也想問兩位知不知道說在國外對於這類的交通罰款的收入到底會怎麼去運用那日本呢稱為反折金的那個違規的罰款呢他們基本上是按照我們的事故件數人口數跟改善道路的長度依比例來分配地方\n664222\t691785\t可是有要求專款專用用於我們的設施設置跟道路環境改善跟地方剛才在執行的說很彈性然後沒設限很不一樣那美國加州也有所謂的交通安全基金的一個專用那他同時也是要求要專用於我們的設施設備構置跟事故傷害的預防而且要求不可以用於哪裡\n692345\t718560\t警察人員的薪酬的貼補那甚至可以用於的是導護人員的貼補所以我就想問的是在這邊事實上是我們的道交處罰條例裡邊本來就有講說要有一定的比例來專款專用用在我們的改善道路交通所以想問部長這邊的一定比例的專款專用\n719048\t729804\t究竟是在實務執行上有哪一步細則辦法有明定說這一定的比例比例是多少而且要用在我們的改善道路交通\n731091\t755209\t我們現在有一個罰款分配辦法第4條有明定它的比例那裡面也有規定就是12%至少12%用在這個道路安全設施那我想之後我們再來找各縣市政府再來開會看怎麼樣把這個部分能夠更明確化那另外也給未來的包括審計單位\n756510\t758392\t府長,因為我剛剛講齁,我們剛剛第三條講的是75%分配到我們的地方政府。\n778004\t804973\t這地方政府裡邊的88%我們是沒有管控的其中的12%如你剛剛講的的確他有講在改善環境可是重點是他的其中的6項優先項目是執法的配備跟教育完全沒有提到道路環境所以這就是我們擔心甚至可不可以也可以講說那88%可不可以明定道路環境的改善而不是讓各地方政府用這個金庫呢\n805393\t805413\t拜訪議員\n825512\t849397\t所以當然我們就很期待是不是可以這樣來做一個考量因為我知道是這個涉及的有牽扯到地方政府的權限但也不是說我們今天在這邊談了說了就算那所以為求謹慎的話如何去訂定地方政府專用於這種道路環境改善的比例的話\n849957\t859292\t﹗\n859502\t886941\t我們剛剛提到的國道建設管理基金的比例明定17%至少你的88%裡邊可不可以定一些比例然後在12%裡邊也可以去考慮要求而不是道安的分數扣了就算所以最後就想讓我們的院長和部長在這邊有沒有機會可以承諾這個部分讓華環的收入設定的一定比例不過大家也要問\n887642\t893783\t您們心目中的比例到底是多少?是不是運用在我們的道路環境當中?\n895292\t924034\t謝謝委員的這個建議利益非常好但是我們現在要突破的是財政紀律法第7條政府的收入固定進入一個基金之後他無法專款專用的指定所以我們是不是從剛剛部長所說的在現在的比例之下對於這些優先之應的事項能夠做明確的規範讓他在交通安全的向下真的地方政府考量在裁員的時候優先之用在交通工程的改善\n924514\t924534\t拜訪議員\n","txt":"主席好,麻煩我們的卓院長。請卓院長備詢。林委員好。院長午安,辛苦了。我來自民間團體也長期關心兒少跟交通安全。今天我先針對於在這個會期裡邊一直想解決的一些問題,\n先來就教一下我們的院長跟部長那第一個事實上是無照駕駛的問題從這個數據可以看到平均每一年大概7萬人的傷亡那而且他累積比例就累犯比例非常高而且事故件數呢但近5年大概成長22%而肇事的死亡率高他堪比酒駕更嚴重所以想問的是\n除了提高我們的罰款以外,針對其他更有效的管理措施,像扣車和連帶處罰,不知道部裡邊有沒有修法的打算?\n現在我們確實是對無照駕駛有研擬更進包括提高罰則讓無照駕駛的部分可以得到抑制至於說是不是要有扣車跟連帶處罰就是說跟他同乘的或是說車子借給無照駕駛使用的是不是有連帶的處罰這個部分我們還要再做開會來廣泛徵求各界的意見\n我會在這時候提示因為未成年無照駕駛真的死傷非常的嚴重所以希望說大概不是只有未成年事實上成年無照駕駛這個問題\n也造成每一年有近千億的社會成本,可能要去考慮。接下來就想也要問的是,針對幼童專用車,目前我們是不安全又沒得選。為什麼不安全?現在只能靠一款車,可是它沒有安全氣囊,沒有任何所謂的主被動安全系統,也沒有碰撞測試。\n那我不知道也很簡單的請部長回答就是何時能夠讓我們有安全的幼童專用車可以搭乘未來是不是有幼童專用車改善的2.0版的方案\n市長\n但是碰撞的測試、碰撞的檢驗或者是兒童坐椅的等於是坐椅的安全帶因為過去之前有討論過坐椅安全帶要不要強制設置那有很多的專家是擔心萬一有發生狀況的時候兒童不會自己解開安全帶\n所以當時這個部分有被擱置,不過我們會再重啟。對,是,部長,因為每一天事實上是2到6歲的孩子在乘坐幼童專載車,而且現在目前有2000多輛,而且我們國內只有一款車,真的是沒得選。所以我希望能夠2.0版盡快能夠出來,來照顧孩子。就是說在這個40項檢驗之外,那對於碰撞是不是造成傷害,怎麼樣去補強,或是說增加這個檢驗?\n不過我知道中華德力卡是沒有所謂的事實上的碰撞的,甚至相關的事項,所以我覺得可能還是要去考慮這一塊。可是今天我主要的議題是在於,因為今天這個題目我是背負著公民團體的期待下來進行質詢的,所以也希望能夠我們一起幫幫忙來解決這樣的一個狀況。\n首先我要問院長你同不同意現在的交通違規的罰環是政府的提款機?應該不是吧?\n對我想也是可是臺灣從我們的交通違規被罰到我們的法環的分配的話很常被我們的入權團體嘲笑是一台提款機、永動機為什麼他們這樣講第一我們的道路環境不佳造成違規然後呢造成人民被罰被罰之後我們的法環又沒有用於我們的環境改善然後再度的違規再度的被罰第二我們的法環事實上是用於購買科技的執法設備\n﹚林月琴\n請問一下我們看一下院長跟部長看看這些道路的環境設計的問題是不是一直在陷害我們的用路人。這則新聞提到的是騎樓停滿車沒路可走那行人被取締不靠邊走可是我要問的是啊如果靠邊走已經是沒路可走了\n下一則新聞就可以看到之前在文化大學我們的周遭環境因為沒有人行道而他必須貼著路邊走然後呢被撞死的一個便當店的老闆娘\n他同樣也是被警察講說怎麼不靠邊走呢可是我一樣要問的是那如何靠邊走就已經沒路可走啦那這些新聞不是特例因為現狀就是我們有很多的弱勢用路人行人跟我們的兒少跟身障者都被迫要與車爭道\n所以前一陣子大家在草圍最不祭典的時候我們的職業駕駛人工會都來跟我講說很多時候不是他們不想守法是道路環境太差了先他們也不育那交通路權團體跟我們的身障跟家長族群他們也在抱怨也就是政府在放寬祭典制度的時候同時有沒有去考慮到我們交通環境的改善這些配套措施到底在哪邊\n那所以就想來問的是,院長這些道路環境的改善問題政府打算怎麼解決,然後要多久的時間,會投入多少的經費預算,有管考的制度嗎?\n謝謝委員。如果委員提到剛剛所說的道路交通違規的罰款其中提撥12%作為交通安全跟這個交通安全跟執法的改善其中有一部分除了優先事項之外地方政府可以用在道路安全路面等等的改善工程那其他當然還要做很多包括這個周遭違規的取締等等這個都要在包括遠景各方面要努力的\n我想這是我們行政院很用心的就是有這樣的一個政策就是我們現在大概四年四百億的確事實上想要去解決我們洗刷我們行人地獄的這樣子的一個惡名\n不過這四年四百億這個經費不是長期性的財源也不是穩定性的所以也沒有制度化的法源依據但我們就很擔心說這樣的計畫可能沒有辦法達到永續安全的一個目標所以這次會議用這個主題來質詢就是希望院長想透過這個樣的質詢來幫你找到我們的錢藏在哪裡\n﹝發言委員﹞\n﹚林月琴\n院長如果是依照現行規定的話在國道上我們的違規的罰款收入有17%要運用在交通環境的改善那你認為多少的比例的罰款收入就是我們剛剛講給地方政府的多少的比例收入可以放在交通環境改善上比較合情合理這可能要現在看看他現在收來的款項在目前的比例分配之後他執行的狀況如何可以再做進一步的檢討\n也跟委員報告其實現在四年四百億來做一些人行路口的這個改善其實很多時候是擔心地方的執行量能因為他做這些改善往往要去比如說取消停車格或者是排除佔用等等所以反而有時候會擔心他執行不完\n因為我們法規在根據我們的道路交通違規法環的收入分配跟運用辦法的第三條\n本來就明定說我們各縣市的舉發的罰款收入有75%是進到縣市政府的金庫當中。\n可是最特別的就是怎麼運用事實上沒人曉得也沒人過問所以我私底下去問某個縣市的交通局局長問他說你們這樣的經費怎麼用他說很難信沒有設限如果政府首長呢他在意交通環境的話的確會用在交通環境的改善可是如果沒有的話也沒有關係即便剛才院長講的那個12%的優先項目裡邊\n大概有可能他們不用也沒有關係因為頂多道安考評的時候被扣分更何況剛剛院長提的那是應據第四條的規定是提的確是要至少提撥百分之十二來作為交通執法跟我們的交通安全環境改善不過可以看到基本上大概就只有四項是在講執法兩項是在講教育我們講交通安全三一的政策裡邊\n指法工程跟我們的教育可是這裡邊都沒有提到工程所以也想問兩位知不知道說在國外對於這類的交通罰款的收入到底會怎麼去運用那日本呢稱為反折金的那個違規的罰款呢他們基本上是按照我們的事故件數人口數跟改善道路的長度依比例來分配地方\n可是有要求專款專用用於我們的設施設置跟道路環境改善跟地方剛才在執行的說很彈性然後沒設限很不一樣那美國加州也有所謂的交通安全基金的一個專用那他同時也是要求要專用於我們的設施設備構置跟事故傷害的預防而且要求不可以用於哪裡\n警察人員的薪酬的貼補那甚至可以用於的是導護人員的貼補所以我就想問的是在這邊事實上是我們的道交處罰條例裡邊本來就有講說要有一定的比例來專款專用用在我們的改善道路交通所以想問部長這邊的一定比例的專款專用\n究竟是在實務執行上有哪一步細則辦法有明定說這一定的比例比例是多少而且要用在我們的改善道路交通\n我們現在有一個罰款分配辦法第4條有明定它的比例那裡面也有規定就是12%至少12%用在這個道路安全設施那我想之後我們再來找各縣市政府再來開會看怎麼樣把這個部分能夠更明確化那另外也給未來的包括審計單位\n府長,因為我剛剛講齁,我們剛剛第三條講的是75%分配到我們的地方政府。\n這地方政府裡邊的88%我們是沒有管控的其中的12%如你剛剛講的的確他有講在改善環境可是重點是他的其中的6項優先項目是執法的配備跟教育完全沒有提到道路環境所以這就是我們擔心甚至可不可以也可以講說那88%可不可以明定道路環境的改善而不是讓各地方政府用這個金庫呢\n拜訪議員\n所以當然我們就很期待是不是可以這樣來做一個考量因為我知道是這個涉及的有牽扯到地方政府的權限但也不是說我們今天在這邊談了說了就算那所以為求謹慎的話如何去訂定地方政府專用於這種道路環境改善的比例的話\n﹗\n我們剛剛提到的國道建設管理基金的比例明定17%至少你的88%裡邊可不可以定一些比例然後在12%裡邊也可以去考慮要求而不是道安的分數扣了就算所以最後就想讓我們的院長和部長在這邊有沒有機會可以承諾這個部分讓華環的收入設定的一定比例不過大家也要問\n您們心目中的比例到底是多少?是不是運用在我們的道路環境當中?\n謝謝委員的這個建議利益非常好但是我們現在要突破的是財政紀律法第7條政府的收入固定進入一個基金之後他無法專款專用的指定所以我們是不是從剛剛部長所說的在現在的比例之下對於這些優先之應的事項能夠做明確的規範讓他在交通安全的向下真的地方政府考量在裁員的時候優先之用在交通工程的改善\n拜訪議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:21.943 --> 00:25.705\n主席好,麻煩我們的卓院長。請卓院長備詢。林委員好。院長午安,辛苦了。我來自民間團體也長期關心兒少跟交通安全。今天我先針對於在這個會期裡邊一直想解決的一些問題,\n\n00:50.888 --> 01:18.458\n先來就教一下我們的院長跟部長那第一個事實上是無照駕駛的問題從這個數據可以看到平均每一年大概7萬人的傷亡那而且他累積比例就累犯比例非常高而且事故件數呢但近5年大概成長22%而肇事的死亡率高他堪比酒駕更嚴重所以想問的是\n\n01:20.802 --> 01:31.011\n除了提高我們的罰款以外,針對其他更有效的管理措施,像扣車和連帶處罰,不知道部裡邊有沒有修法的打算?\n\n01:33.932 --> 01:59.253\n現在我們確實是對無照駕駛有研擬更進包括提高罰則讓無照駕駛的部分可以得到抑制至於說是不是要有扣車跟連帶處罰就是說跟他同乘的或是說車子借給無照駕駛使用的是不是有連帶的處罰這個部分我們還要再做開會來廣泛徵求各界的意見\n\n02:03.686 --> 02:11.420\n我會在這時候提示因為未成年無照駕駛真的死傷非常的嚴重所以希望說大概不是只有未成年事實上成年無照駕駛這個問題\n\n02:12.932 --> 02:34.490\n也造成每一年有近千億的社會成本,可能要去考慮。接下來就想也要問的是,針對幼童專用車,目前我們是不安全又沒得選。為什麼不安全?現在只能靠一款車,可是它沒有安全氣囊,沒有任何所謂的主被動安全系統,也沒有碰撞測試。\n\n02:35.526 --> 02:47.195\n那我不知道也很簡單的請部長回答就是何時能夠讓我們有安全的幼童專用車可以搭乘未來是不是有幼童專用車改善的2.0版的方案\n\n02:48.226 --> 02:48.246\n市長\n\n03:06.331 --> 03:25.517\n但是碰撞的測試、碰撞的檢驗或者是兒童坐椅的等於是坐椅的安全帶因為過去之前有討論過坐椅安全帶要不要強制設置那有很多的專家是擔心萬一有發生狀況的時候兒童不會自己解開安全帶\n\n03:26.837 --> 03:52.214\n所以當時這個部分有被擱置,不過我們會再重啟。對,是,部長,因為每一天事實上是2到6歲的孩子在乘坐幼童專載車,而且現在目前有2000多輛,而且我們國內只有一款車,真的是沒得選。所以我希望能夠2.0版盡快能夠出來,來照顧孩子。就是說在這個40項檢驗之外,那對於碰撞是不是造成傷害,怎麼樣去補強,或是說增加這個檢驗?\n\n03:53.175 --> 04:14.725\n不過我知道中華德力卡是沒有所謂的事實上的碰撞的,甚至相關的事項,所以我覺得可能還是要去考慮這一塊。可是今天我主要的議題是在於,因為今天這個題目我是背負著公民團體的期待下來進行質詢的,所以也希望能夠我們一起幫幫忙來解決這樣的一個狀況。\n\n04:16.823 --> 04:24.514\n首先我要問院長你同不同意現在的交通違規的罰環是政府的提款機?應該不是吧?\n\n04:25.301 --> 04:51.519\n對我想也是可是臺灣從我們的交通違規被罰到我們的法環的分配的話很常被我們的入權團體嘲笑是一台提款機、永動機為什麼他們這樣講第一我們的道路環境不佳造成違規然後呢造成人民被罰被罰之後我們的法環又沒有用於我們的環境改善然後再度的違規再度的被罰第二我們的法環事實上是用於購買科技的執法設備\n\n04:52.600 --> 04:52.720\n﹚林月琴\n\n05:07.709 --> 05:25.980\n請問一下我們看一下院長跟部長看看這些道路的環境設計的問題是不是一直在陷害我們的用路人。這則新聞提到的是騎樓停滿車沒路可走那行人被取締不靠邊走可是我要問的是啊如果靠邊走已經是沒路可走了\n\n05:26.580 --> 05:37.453\n下一則新聞就可以看到之前在文化大學我們的周遭環境因為沒有人行道而他必須貼著路邊走然後呢被撞死的一個便當店的老闆娘\n\n05:38.288 --> 05:56.305\n他同樣也是被警察講說怎麼不靠邊走呢可是我一樣要問的是那如何靠邊走就已經沒路可走啦那這些新聞不是特例因為現狀就是我們有很多的弱勢用路人行人跟我們的兒少跟身障者都被迫要與車爭道\n\n05:57.594 --> 06:22.334\n所以前一陣子大家在草圍最不祭典的時候我們的職業駕駛人工會都來跟我講說很多時候不是他們不想守法是道路環境太差了先他們也不育那交通路權團體跟我們的身障跟家長族群他們也在抱怨也就是政府在放寬祭典制度的時候同時有沒有去考慮到我們交通環境的改善這些配套措施到底在哪邊\n\n06:23.355 --> 06:35.345\n那所以就想來問的是,院長這些道路環境的改善問題政府打算怎麼解決,然後要多久的時間,會投入多少的經費預算,有管考的制度嗎?\n\n06:37.033 --> 07:02.641\n謝謝委員。如果委員提到剛剛所說的道路交通違規的罰款其中提撥12%作為交通安全跟這個交通安全跟執法的改善其中有一部分除了優先事項之外地方政府可以用在道路安全路面等等的改善工程那其他當然還要做很多包括這個周遭違規的取締等等這個都要在包括遠景各方面要努力的\n\n07:04.036 --> 07:15.504\n我想這是我們行政院很用心的就是有這樣的一個政策就是我們現在大概四年四百億的確事實上想要去解決我們洗刷我們行人地獄的這樣子的一個惡名\n\n07:16.516 --> 07:38.871\n不過這四年四百億這個經費不是長期性的財源也不是穩定性的所以也沒有制度化的法源依據但我們就很擔心說這樣的計畫可能沒有辦法達到永續安全的一個目標所以這次會議用這個主題來質詢就是希望院長想透過這個樣的質詢來幫你找到我們的錢藏在哪裡\n\n07:39.631 --> 07:39.711\n﹝發言委員﹞\n\n07:58.919 --> 07:59.039\n﹚林月琴\n\n08:13.410 --> 08:40.990\n院長如果是依照現行規定的話在國道上我們的違規的罰款收入有17%要運用在交通環境的改善那你認為多少的比例的罰款收入就是我們剛剛講給地方政府的多少的比例收入可以放在交通環境改善上比較合情合理這可能要現在看看他現在收來的款項在目前的比例分配之後他執行的狀況如何可以再做進一步的檢討\n\n08:43.534 --> 09:03.411\n也跟委員報告其實現在四年四百億來做一些人行路口的這個改善其實很多時候是擔心地方的執行量能因為他做這些改善往往要去比如說取消停車格或者是排除佔用等等所以反而有時候會擔心他執行不完\n\n09:03.911 --> 09:08.112\n因為我們法規在根據我們的道路交通違規法環的收入分配跟運用辦法的第三條\n\n09:32.057 --> 09:39.261\n本來就明定說我們各縣市的舉發的罰款收入有75%是進到縣市政府的金庫當中。\n\n09:40.509 --> 10:05.116\n可是最特別的就是怎麼運用事實上沒人曉得也沒人過問所以我私底下去問某個縣市的交通局局長問他說你們這樣的經費怎麼用他說很難信沒有設限如果政府首長呢他在意交通環境的話的確會用在交通環境的改善可是如果沒有的話也沒有關係即便剛才院長講的那個12%的優先項目裡邊\n\n10:07.737 --> 10:36.229\n大概有可能他們不用也沒有關係因為頂多道安考評的時候被扣分更何況剛剛院長提的那是應據第四條的規定是提的確是要至少提撥百分之十二來作為交通執法跟我們的交通安全環境改善不過可以看到基本上大概就只有四項是在講執法兩項是在講教育我們講交通安全三一的政策裡邊\n\n10:37.048 --> 11:03.782\n指法工程跟我們的教育可是這裡邊都沒有提到工程所以也想問兩位知不知道說在國外對於這類的交通罰款的收入到底會怎麼去運用那日本呢稱為反折金的那個違規的罰款呢他們基本上是按照我們的事故件數人口數跟改善道路的長度依比例來分配地方\n\n11:04.222 --> 11:31.785\n可是有要求專款專用用於我們的設施設置跟道路環境改善跟地方剛才在執行的說很彈性然後沒設限很不一樣那美國加州也有所謂的交通安全基金的一個專用那他同時也是要求要專用於我們的設施設備構置跟事故傷害的預防而且要求不可以用於哪裡\n\n11:32.345 --> 11:58.560\n警察人員的薪酬的貼補那甚至可以用於的是導護人員的貼補所以我就想問的是在這邊事實上是我們的道交處罰條例裡邊本來就有講說要有一定的比例來專款專用用在我們的改善道路交通所以想問部長這邊的一定比例的專款專用\n\n11:59.048 --> 12:09.804\n究竟是在實務執行上有哪一步細則辦法有明定說這一定的比例比例是多少而且要用在我們的改善道路交通\n\n12:11.091 --> 12:35.209\n我們現在有一個罰款分配辦法第4條有明定它的比例那裡面也有規定就是12%至少12%用在這個道路安全設施那我想之後我們再來找各縣市政府再來開會看怎麼樣把這個部分能夠更明確化那另外也給未來的包括審計單位\n\n12:36.510 --> 12:38.392\n府長,因為我剛剛講齁,我們剛剛第三條講的是75%分配到我們的地方政府。\n\n12:58.004 --> 13:24.973\n這地方政府裡邊的88%我們是沒有管控的其中的12%如你剛剛講的的確他有講在改善環境可是重點是他的其中的6項優先項目是執法的配備跟教育完全沒有提到道路環境所以這就是我們擔心甚至可不可以也可以講說那88%可不可以明定道路環境的改善而不是讓各地方政府用這個金庫呢\n\n13:25.393 --> 13:25.413\n拜訪議員\n\n13:45.512 --> 14:09.397\n所以當然我們就很期待是不是可以這樣來做一個考量因為我知道是這個涉及的有牽扯到地方政府的權限但也不是說我們今天在這邊談了說了就算那所以為求謹慎的話如何去訂定地方政府專用於這種道路環境改善的比例的話\n\n14:19.502 --> 14:46.941\n我們剛剛提到的國道建設管理基金的比例明定17%至少你的88%裡邊可不可以定一些比例然後在12%裡邊也可以去考慮要求而不是道安的分數扣了就算所以最後就想讓我們的院長和部長在這邊有沒有機會可以承諾這個部分讓華環的收入設定的一定比例不過大家也要問\n\n14:47.642 --> 14:53.783\n您們心目中的比例到底是多少?是不是運用在我們的道路環境當中?\n\n14:55.292 --> 15:24.034\n謝謝委員的這個建議利益非常好但是我們現在要突破的是財政紀律法第7條政府的收入固定進入一個基金之後他無法專款專用的指定所以我們是不是從剛剛部長所說的在現在的比例之下對於這些優先之應的事項能夠做明確的規範讓他在交通安全的向下真的地方政府考量在裁員的時候優先之用在交通工程的改善\n\n15:24.514 --> 15:24.534\n拜訪議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":21.943,"end":25.705,"text":"主席好,麻煩我們的卓院長。請卓院長備詢。林委員好。院長午安,辛苦了。我來自民間團體也長期關心兒少跟交通安全。今天我先針對於在這個會期裡邊一直想解決的一些問題,"},{"start":50.888,"end":78.458,"text":"先來就教一下我們的院長跟部長那第一個事實上是無照駕駛的問題從這個數據可以看到平均每一年大概7萬人的傷亡那而且他累積比例就累犯比例非常高而且事故件數呢但近5年大概成長22%而肇事的死亡率高他堪比酒駕更嚴重所以想問的是"},{"start":80.802,"end":91.011,"text":"除了提高我們的罰款以外,針對其他更有效的管理措施,像扣車和連帶處罰,不知道部裡邊有沒有修法的打算?"},{"start":93.932,"end":119.253,"text":"現在我們確實是對無照駕駛有研擬更進包括提高罰則讓無照駕駛的部分可以得到抑制至於說是不是要有扣車跟連帶處罰就是說跟他同乘的或是說車子借給無照駕駛使用的是不是有連帶的處罰這個部分我們還要再做開會來廣泛徵求各界的意見"},{"start":123.686,"end":131.42,"text":"我會在這時候提示因為未成年無照駕駛真的死傷非常的嚴重所以希望說大概不是只有未成年事實上成年無照駕駛這個問題"},{"start":132.932,"end":154.49,"text":"也造成每一年有近千億的社會成本,可能要去考慮。接下來就想也要問的是,針對幼童專用車,目前我們是不安全又沒得選。為什麼不安全?現在只能靠一款車,可是它沒有安全氣囊,沒有任何所謂的主被動安全系統,也沒有碰撞測試。"},{"start":155.526,"end":167.195,"text":"那我不知道也很簡單的請部長回答就是何時能夠讓我們有安全的幼童專用車可以搭乘未來是不是有幼童專用車改善的2.0版的方案"},{"start":168.226,"end":168.246,"text":"市長"},{"start":186.331,"end":205.517,"text":"但是碰撞的測試、碰撞的檢驗或者是兒童坐椅的等於是坐椅的安全帶因為過去之前有討論過坐椅安全帶要不要強制設置那有很多的專家是擔心萬一有發生狀況的時候兒童不會自己解開安全帶"},{"start":206.837,"end":232.214,"text":"所以當時這個部分有被擱置,不過我們會再重啟。對,是,部長,因為每一天事實上是2到6歲的孩子在乘坐幼童專載車,而且現在目前有2000多輛,而且我們國內只有一款車,真的是沒得選。所以我希望能夠2.0版盡快能夠出來,來照顧孩子。就是說在這個40項檢驗之外,那對於碰撞是不是造成傷害,怎麼樣去補強,或是說增加這個檢驗?"},{"start":233.175,"end":254.725,"text":"不過我知道中華德力卡是沒有所謂的事實上的碰撞的,甚至相關的事項,所以我覺得可能還是要去考慮這一塊。可是今天我主要的議題是在於,因為今天這個題目我是背負著公民團體的期待下來進行質詢的,所以也希望能夠我們一起幫幫忙來解決這樣的一個狀況。"},{"start":256.823,"end":264.514,"text":"首先我要問院長你同不同意現在的交通違規的罰環是政府的提款機?應該不是吧?"},{"start":265.301,"end":291.519,"text":"對我想也是可是臺灣從我們的交通違規被罰到我們的法環的分配的話很常被我們的入權團體嘲笑是一台提款機、永動機為什麼他們這樣講第一我們的道路環境不佳造成違規然後呢造成人民被罰被罰之後我們的法環又沒有用於我們的環境改善然後再度的違規再度的被罰第二我們的法環事實上是用於購買科技的執法設備"},{"start":292.6,"end":292.72,"text":"﹚林月琴"},{"start":307.709,"end":325.98,"text":"請問一下我們看一下院長跟部長看看這些道路的環境設計的問題是不是一直在陷害我們的用路人。這則新聞提到的是騎樓停滿車沒路可走那行人被取締不靠邊走可是我要問的是啊如果靠邊走已經是沒路可走了"},{"start":326.58,"end":337.453,"text":"下一則新聞就可以看到之前在文化大學我們的周遭環境因為沒有人行道而他必須貼著路邊走然後呢被撞死的一個便當店的老闆娘"},{"start":338.288,"end":356.305,"text":"他同樣也是被警察講說怎麼不靠邊走呢可是我一樣要問的是那如何靠邊走就已經沒路可走啦那這些新聞不是特例因為現狀就是我們有很多的弱勢用路人行人跟我們的兒少跟身障者都被迫要與車爭道"},{"start":357.594,"end":382.334,"text":"所以前一陣子大家在草圍最不祭典的時候我們的職業駕駛人工會都來跟我講說很多時候不是他們不想守法是道路環境太差了先他們也不育那交通路權團體跟我們的身障跟家長族群他們也在抱怨也就是政府在放寬祭典制度的時候同時有沒有去考慮到我們交通環境的改善這些配套措施到底在哪邊"},{"start":383.355,"end":395.345,"text":"那所以就想來問的是,院長這些道路環境的改善問題政府打算怎麼解決,然後要多久的時間,會投入多少的經費預算,有管考的制度嗎?"},{"start":397.033,"end":422.641,"text":"謝謝委員。如果委員提到剛剛所說的道路交通違規的罰款其中提撥12%作為交通安全跟這個交通安全跟執法的改善其中有一部分除了優先事項之外地方政府可以用在道路安全路面等等的改善工程那其他當然還要做很多包括這個周遭違規的取締等等這個都要在包括遠景各方面要努力的"},{"start":424.036,"end":435.504,"text":"我想這是我們行政院很用心的就是有這樣的一個政策就是我們現在大概四年四百億的確事實上想要去解決我們洗刷我們行人地獄的這樣子的一個惡名"},{"start":436.516,"end":458.871,"text":"不過這四年四百億這個經費不是長期性的財源也不是穩定性的所以也沒有制度化的法源依據但我們就很擔心說這樣的計畫可能沒有辦法達到永續安全的一個目標所以這次會議用這個主題來質詢就是希望院長想透過這個樣的質詢來幫你找到我們的錢藏在哪裡"},{"start":459.631,"end":459.711,"text":"﹝發言委員﹞"},{"start":478.919,"end":479.039,"text":"﹚林月琴"},{"start":493.41,"end":520.99,"text":"院長如果是依照現行規定的話在國道上我們的違規的罰款收入有17%要運用在交通環境的改善那你認為多少的比例的罰款收入就是我們剛剛講給地方政府的多少的比例收入可以放在交通環境改善上比較合情合理這可能要現在看看他現在收來的款項在目前的比例分配之後他執行的狀況如何可以再做進一步的檢討"},{"start":523.534,"end":543.411,"text":"也跟委員報告其實現在四年四百億來做一些人行路口的這個改善其實很多時候是擔心地方的執行量能因為他做這些改善往往要去比如說取消停車格或者是排除佔用等等所以反而有時候會擔心他執行不完"},{"start":543.911,"end":548.112,"text":"因為我們法規在根據我們的道路交通違規法環的收入分配跟運用辦法的第三條"},{"start":572.057,"end":579.261,"text":"本來就明定說我們各縣市的舉發的罰款收入有75%是進到縣市政府的金庫當中。"},{"start":580.509,"end":605.116,"text":"可是最特別的就是怎麼運用事實上沒人曉得也沒人過問所以我私底下去問某個縣市的交通局局長問他說你們這樣的經費怎麼用他說很難信沒有設限如果政府首長呢他在意交通環境的話的確會用在交通環境的改善可是如果沒有的話也沒有關係即便剛才院長講的那個12%的優先項目裡邊"},{"start":607.737,"end":636.229,"text":"大概有可能他們不用也沒有關係因為頂多道安考評的時候被扣分更何況剛剛院長提的那是應據第四條的規定是提的確是要至少提撥百分之十二來作為交通執法跟我們的交通安全環境改善不過可以看到基本上大概就只有四項是在講執法兩項是在講教育我們講交通安全三一的政策裡邊"},{"start":637.048,"end":663.782,"text":"指法工程跟我們的教育可是這裡邊都沒有提到工程所以也想問兩位知不知道說在國外對於這類的交通罰款的收入到底會怎麼去運用那日本呢稱為反折金的那個違規的罰款呢他們基本上是按照我們的事故件數人口數跟改善道路的長度依比例來分配地方"},{"start":664.222,"end":691.785,"text":"可是有要求專款專用用於我們的設施設置跟道路環境改善跟地方剛才在執行的說很彈性然後沒設限很不一樣那美國加州也有所謂的交通安全基金的一個專用那他同時也是要求要專用於我們的設施設備構置跟事故傷害的預防而且要求不可以用於哪裡"},{"start":692.345,"end":718.56,"text":"警察人員的薪酬的貼補那甚至可以用於的是導護人員的貼補所以我就想問的是在這邊事實上是我們的道交處罰條例裡邊本來就有講說要有一定的比例來專款專用用在我們的改善道路交通所以想問部長這邊的一定比例的專款專用"},{"start":719.048,"end":729.804,"text":"究竟是在實務執行上有哪一步細則辦法有明定說這一定的比例比例是多少而且要用在我們的改善道路交通"},{"start":731.091,"end":755.209,"text":"我們現在有一個罰款分配辦法第4條有明定它的比例那裡面也有規定就是12%至少12%用在這個道路安全設施那我想之後我們再來找各縣市政府再來開會看怎麼樣把這個部分能夠更明確化那另外也給未來的包括審計單位"},{"start":756.51,"end":758.392,"text":"府長,因為我剛剛講齁,我們剛剛第三條講的是75%分配到我們的地方政府。"},{"start":778.004,"end":804.973,"text":"這地方政府裡邊的88%我們是沒有管控的其中的12%如你剛剛講的的確他有講在改善環境可是重點是他的其中的6項優先項目是執法的配備跟教育完全沒有提到道路環境所以這就是我們擔心甚至可不可以也可以講說那88%可不可以明定道路環境的改善而不是讓各地方政府用這個金庫呢"},{"start":805.393,"end":805.413,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":825.512,"end":849.397,"text":"所以當然我們就很期待是不是可以這樣來做一個考量因為我知道是這個涉及的有牽扯到地方政府的權限但也不是說我們今天在這邊談了說了就算那所以為求謹慎的話如何去訂定地方政府專用於這種道路環境改善的比例的話"},{"start":849.957,"end":859.292,"text":"﹗"},{"start":859.502,"end":886.941,"text":"我們剛剛提到的國道建設管理基金的比例明定17%至少你的88%裡邊可不可以定一些比例然後在12%裡邊也可以去考慮要求而不是道安的分數扣了就算所以最後就想讓我們的院長和部長在這邊有沒有機會可以承諾這個部分讓華環的收入設定的一定比例不過大家也要問"},{"start":887.642,"end":893.783,"text":"您們心目中的比例到底是多少?是不是運用在我們的道路環境當中?"},{"start":895.292,"end":924.034,"text":"謝謝委員的這個建議利益非常好但是我們現在要突破的是財政紀律法第7條政府的收入固定進入一個基金之後他無法專款專用的指定所以我們是不是從剛剛部長所說的在現在的比例之下對於這些優先之應的事項能夠做明確的規範讓他在交通安全的向下真的地方政府考量在裁員的時候優先之用在交通工程的改善"},{"start":924.514,"end":924.534,"text":"拜訪議員"}]}}}}