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\"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 102.804, \"end\": 102.924, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 102.924, \"end\": 103.144, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 103.144, \"end\": 103.164, \"score\": 0.956}]}, {\"start\": 103.624, \"end\": 127.326, \"text\": \"那也造成了很多包括國際社會上對於到對岸來從事經商旅遊的風險警示不斷的在升高當中所以這是一個大的發展的態勢那第二部分可能在過程當中從去年到現在我們已經有15位的國人進入到對岸去之後遭到了拘禁還有審判那另外有51位的國人在經過了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 103.624, \"end\": 103.924, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 103.924, \"end\": 104.085, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 104.085, \"end\": 104.265, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 104.265, \"end\": 104.385, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 104.385, \"end\": 104.465, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 104.465, \"end\": 104.645, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 104.645, \"end\": 105.226, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 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\"陸港澳的海關遭盤查詢問,我們也發現這個個案比例越來越高。主要問題回答委員的問題就在於說,他的國安法制解釋的空間太模糊了,也讓第一線的查查人員有他自己的權限來進行每一個不同個案的解釋。所以這是我們為什麼會對於陸委會提高對國人道對岸的一個旅遊警示的相關的一個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"港\", \"start\": 128.647, \"end\": 128.807, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"澳\", \"start\": 128.807, \"end\": 129.048, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 129.048, \"end\": 129.468, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 129.468, \"end\": 130.249, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"遭\", \"start\": 130.249, \"end\": 131.07, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 131.07, \"end\": 132.171, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 132.171, \"end\": 132.291, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 132.291, \"end\": 133.051, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 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\"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 135.574, \"end\": 135.714, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 135.714, \"end\": 135.874, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 135.874, \"end\": 136.274, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 136.274, \"end\": 136.415, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 136.415, \"end\": 136.535, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 136.535, \"end\": 136.755, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 136.755, \"end\": 136.975, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 136.975, \"end\": 138.076, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 138.076, \"end\": 138.496, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.496, \"end\": 139.417, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 139.417, \"end\": 139.958, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 139.958, \"end\": 140.158, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 140.158, \"end\": 140.418, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"糊\", \"start\": 140.418, \"end\": 140.578, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 140.578, \"end\": 141.039, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 141.039, \"end\": 141.359, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 141.359, \"end\": 141.439, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 141.439, \"end\": 141.639, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 141.639, \"end\": 141.78, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 141.78, \"end\": 141.96, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 141.96, \"end\": 142.12, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 142.12, \"end\": 142.4, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 142.4, \"end\": 142.54, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 142.54, \"end\": 142.76, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 142.76, 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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 145.863, \"end\": 146.024, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 146.024, \"end\": 146.204, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 146.204, \"end\": 146.404, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 146.404, \"end\": 147.105, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 147.105, \"end\": 148.005, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 148.005, \"end\": 148.226, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 148.226, \"end\": 148.906, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 148.906, \"end\": 149.126, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 149.126, \"end\": 150.007, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 150.007, \"end\": 150.207, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 150.207, \"end\": 150.748, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 150.748, \"end\": 150.928, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.928, \"end\": 151.048, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 151.048, \"end\": 151.248, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"旅\", \"start\": 151.248, \"end\": 151.529, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"遊\"}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 151.529, \"end\": 151.769, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 151.769, \"end\": 151.969, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 151.969, \"end\": 152.089, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 152.089, \"end\": 152.47, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 152.47, \"end\": 152.59, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 152.59, \"end\": 152.61, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 154.031, \"end\": 172.663, \"text\": \"提高的那個警示的程度我們都尊重陸委會相關的一個安排那至於委員在提問的是國人該注意什麼那從我們剛剛跟委員報告樣態裡面大概有幾個部分要特別注意的那第一個部分是假如曾經有公開的批判中共相關的黨政或是相關的人權問題的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 154.031, \"end\": 154.211, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 154.211, \"end\": 154.391, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 154.391, \"end\": 154.491, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 154.491, \"end\": 154.732, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 154.732, \"end\": 154.952, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 154.952, \"end\": 155.112, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 155.112, \"end\": 155.452, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 155.452, \"end\": 155.692, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 155.692, \"end\": 155.952, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 155.952, \"end\": 156.213, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 156.213, \"end\": 157.393, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 157.393, \"end\": 157.573, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 157.573, \"end\": 157.914, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 157.914, \"end\": 158.154, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 158.154, \"end\": 158.494, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 158.494, \"end\": 158.574, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 158.574, \"end\": 158.734, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 158.734, \"end\": 158.914, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 158.914, \"end\": 159.094, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 159.094, \"end\": 159.255, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 159.255, \"end\": 159.415, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 159.415, \"end\": 160.415, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 160.415, \"end\": 160.655, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 160.655, \"end\": 161.036, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 161.036, \"end\": 161.316, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 161.316, \"end\": 161.436, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 161.436, \"end\": 161.956, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 161.956, \"end\": 162.337, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 162.337, \"end\": 162.517, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 162.517, \"end\": 162.617, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 162.617, \"end\": 163.217, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 163.217, \"end\": 163.617, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 163.617, \"end\": 163.818, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 163.818, \"end\": 163.958, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 163.958, \"end\": 164.318, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 164.318, \"end\": 164.898, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 164.898, \"end\": 165.038, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 165.038, \"end\": 165.178, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 165.178, \"end\": 165.259, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 165.259, \"end\": 165.619, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 165.619, \"end\": 165.739, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 165.739, \"end\": 165.819, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 165.819, \"end\": 165.959, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 165.959, \"end\": 166.079, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 166.079, \"end\": 166.259, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 166.259, \"end\": 166.439, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 166.439, \"end\": 166.539, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 166.539, \"end\": 166.98, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 166.98, \"end\": 167.14, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 167.14, \"end\": 167.22, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 167.22, \"end\": 167.44, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 167.44, \"end\": 167.56, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 167.56, \"end\": 167.7, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 167.7, \"end\": 167.86, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 167.86, \"end\": 168.04, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 168.04, \"end\": 168.2, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"曾\", \"start\": 168.2, \"end\": 168.541, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 168.541, \"end\": 168.701, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 168.701, \"end\": 169.061, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 169.061, \"end\": 169.161, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"批\", \"start\": 169.161, \"end\": 169.341, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 169.341, \"end\": 169.902, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 169.902, \"end\": 170.102, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 170.102, \"end\": 170.302, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 170.302, \"end\": 170.802, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 170.802, \"end\": 171.303, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 171.303, \"end\": 171.663, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 171.663, \"end\": 171.823, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 171.823, \"end\": 171.963, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 171.963, \"end\": 172.383, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 172.383, \"end\": 172.523, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 172.523, \"end\": 172.643, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 172.643, \"end\": 172.663, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"話\"}]}, {\"start\": 174.124, \"end\": 200.752, \"text\": \"這類人是在進出中國比較容易列為高風險的對象那第二個是曾經在高科技服務的那也曾經發生過有這樣的案例在進出海關的時候遭到了盤查跟詢問那第三個是有跟相關的一些公民組織或團體比較活躍的這些社團的人士在入境的時候也比較容易遭到盤查所以這大概是一些我們從去年以來所整理的樣態跟委員做個簡單的說明\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 174.124, \"end\": 174.284, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 174.284, \"end\": 174.464, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 174.464, \"end\": 175.224, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 175.224, \"end\": 175.425, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 175.425, \"end\": 175.725, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 175.725, \"end\": 176.005, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 176.005, \"end\": 176.145, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 176.145, \"end\": 176.485, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 176.485, \"end\": 176.785, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 176.785, \"end\": 177.305, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 177.305, \"end\": 177.605, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"象\", \"start\": 177.605, \"end\": 178.105, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 178.105, \"end\": 178.245, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 178.245, \"end\": 178.365, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 178.365, \"end\": 178.645, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 178.645, \"end\": 178.805, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"曾\", \"start\": 178.805, \"end\": 179.206, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 179.206, \"end\": 179.406, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"高\", 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\"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:04,354\n有請國安局蔡局長還有陸委會兩副主委從我們這個國安單位的報告當中確實中國對台的這個滲透是可以說是五花八門\n\n2\n00:00:22,113 --> 00:00:29,396\n本期想跟兩位了解的就是說2022年中國發生了火箭軍的洩密事件之後中國就很積極的開始推動一些國安相關法規的這個修訂還有這個反間諜法那反間諜法跟這些國安的規定在去年跟今年\n\n3\n00:00:51,685 --> 00:01:05,675\n國人都想要再問因為像中國他的執法人員在主觀認定任何有損害國家安全餘地的人就是他就是觸犯了反間諜法所以到底他的紅線在哪裡國人一直想要問\n\n4\n00:01:06,275 --> 00:01:25,393\n畢竟在中國畢竟還有很多的國人在那裡長期的這個定居或是說暑假也好或是工作也好到那裡去旅遊有沒有可能就因此觸犯了這個反間諜法我想請問國安局還有陸委會到底這些紅線在哪裡國人都很想了解\n\n5\n00:01:25,993 --> 00:01:43,164\n這大概包括幾個部分一個部分是中共確實為了加強對國內政治社會的一個控制那通過很多的國安法制那這些國安法制包括剛剛委員所提到的反間諜法還有保守國家秘密法以及相關配套的作業規定跟相關的解釋意見不斷的出台\n\n6\n00:01:43,624 --> 00:02:07,326\n那也造成了很多包括國際社會上對於到對岸來從事經商旅遊的風險警示不斷的在升高當中所以這是一個大的發展的態勢那第二部分可能在過程當中從去年到現在我們已經有15位的國人進入到對岸去之後遭到了拘禁還有審判那另外有51位的國人在經過了\n\n7\n00:02:08,647 --> 00:02:32,610\n陸港澳的海關遭盤查詢問,我們也發現這個個案比例越來越高。主要問題回答委員的問題就在於說,他的國安法制解釋的空間太模糊了,也讓第一線的查查人員有他自己的權限來進行每一個不同個案的解釋。所以這是我們為什麼會對於陸委會提高對國人道對岸的一個旅遊警示的相關的一個\n\n8\n00:02:34,031 --> 00:02:52,663\n提高的那個警示的程度我們都尊重陸委會相關的一個安排那至於委員在提問的是國人該注意什麼那從我們剛剛跟委員報告樣態裡面大概有幾個部分要特別注意的那第一個部分是假如曾經有公開的批判中共相關的黨政或是相關的人權問題的話\n\n9\n00:02:54,124 --> 00:03:20,752\n這類人是在進出中國比較容易列為高風險的對象那第二個是曾經在高科技服務的那也曾經發生過有這樣的案例在進出海關的時候遭到了盤查跟詢問那第三個是有跟相關的一些公民組織或團體比較活躍的這些社團的人士在入境的時候也比較容易遭到盤查所以這大概是一些我們從去年以來所整理的樣態跟委員做個簡單的說明\n\n10\n00:03:21,972 --> 00:03:35,865\n那如果說這個國人到中國去,在那之前,比如說他在網路上有搜尋的一些照片啊,地圖啊,或是有儲存的一些批評中國的這些文章,這些人有沒有可能出犯反間諜法?對,對,確實會,會,風險非常的大。這個是會,就算是儲存,\n\n11\n00:03:41,130 --> 00:03:41,791\n中共海關確實會去查查我們的電子的設備\n\n12\n00:03:59,522 --> 00:04:24,520\n那也會去看你以前的一些通訊的記錄還有你的聯絡人交友的狀況那這些他在經過勾勒之後認定你是可能涉及到國安風險的話可能就會啟動他的相關的一個徵訊的作業那這部分也是我們要特別提醒注意的另外再補充一點是假如以前在台灣具有公職或軍事或相關國安單位的退離職的人員復入的話風險也非常非常的高\n\n13\n00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,141\n副主委對這部分有沒有想要跟國人提醒的部分?\n\n14\n00:04:41,809 --> 00:05:07,765\n就是因為風險我們看到確實有提高的狀態所以我們才會把這個附入警示提升為橙色燈號那這個意思就是說我們意識到會有風險所以我們在警示國人自己要去的時候要特別注意那我們也可能要特別提醒國人因為我們現在也收到一些\n\n15\n00:05:08,786 --> 00:05:36,709\n所謂在兩岸就是投資的一些科技公司大公司他們會來詢問我們說那如果他們派台幹台灣籍的幹部或是怎麼樣去那邊會有什麼需要注意的地方那我們都會跟他們提醒各種可能的樣態那據我知道他很多公司他現在已經開始就是派台灣籍幹部過去的時候都希望他們帶這個新的手機\n\n16\n00:05:47,873 --> 00:06:01,137\n主委,今年4月他們有公布國家安全機關行政執法程序規定跟國家安全機關辦理刑事事件程序規定,它裡面都有提到執法人員是可以查驗電子設備,查驗電子設備是隨機就可以嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:05,579 --> 00:06:19,935\n對因為他很多都是主觀認定因為他雖然雖然說就是有他們說我們的對象很明確他們雖然說對象很明確但是因為對我們外界的人來講對象其實是不知道他的對象到底是誰\n\n18\n00:06:20,876 --> 00:06:41,678\n所以我還是建議說去大陸特別是如果你要在那邊待的比較長期的話就是自己的電子設備不管是手機或是平板電腦或者是筆記型電腦這些最好還是用新的帶過去這樣會比較好一點\n\n19\n00:06:45,743 --> 00:07:04,534\n中國近期還是接連發生了一些攻擊外國人的事件引起外界很大的疑慮像美國上個月有兩起一個是有四位美國的學者被攻擊再來還有就是\n\n20\n00:07:06,056 --> 00:07:23,356\n日本的一對母子也是被攻擊,類似這樣子的事件那會不會就是因為說中國他國內的一些仇美或仇日的一些言論造成這些事件的發生但我們比較擔心的就是像反台獨言論其實在中國這裡其實也是\n\n21\n00:07:25,818 --> 00:07:28,342\n國安局和陸委會針對這些疑慮有沒有做一些怎麼樣防範的工作\n\n22\n00:07:41,518 --> 00:08:09,501\n我們有在注意,也就是說現在在中國大陸有一個現象就是網路上有很多的資訊或是很多網紅散佈的影片那它有一些排外或是民族主義的情緒那中共的網管在這部分並沒有做嚴密的一個控管所以造成這些有問題的影片或相關言論常常是散佈了很久之後才遭到下架那可是已經閱聽的群眾已經非常非常的多\n\n23\n00:08:09,921 --> 00:08:10,342\n我會做怎樣的防範?\n\n24\n00:08:36,523 --> 00:08:57,055\n因為這麼多的國人在中國,我們也擔心他們的安全。對,我們還是要警示,就是有附路準備的話,可能還是要了解一下目前當地的一些樣態。那在當地的國人我們還是會警示他,假如說在外的一些活動還是要注意到不要跟一些比較陌生的人有太多\n\n25\n00:08:58,436 --> 00:09:00,718\n陸委會是長期在呼籲國人要注意自己的安全但是因為我們\n\n26\n00:09:19,338 --> 00:09:35,715\n國人在大陸確實人數非常多而且許多人他覺得說自己已經在大陸已經很熟悉了所以應該是安全無虞但是我們也看到不少案例就是很熟悉\n\n27\n00:09:36,816 --> 00:09:40,118\n很熟悉,覺得自己安全無虞,所以才出了事。\n\n28\n00:10:00,350 --> 00:10:22,533\n是,我是覺得副主委說的沒錯,國人常常想說,不會是我啊,對不對,就像反那個間諜法也是一樣,他說我平常我也沒做什麼事情啊,不會輪到我,所以他就覺得OK,沒問題,對,實際上我們有發現,其實之前就發生過,旅行團裡面有團員莫名其妙被帶走的這個事情,所以國人還是不得不謹慎。OK,好,以上謝謝。\n\n29\n00:10:26,438 --> 00:10:29,689\n好謝謝接下來請賴志寶委員上台質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t4354\t有請國安局蔡局長還有陸委會兩副主委從我們這個國安單位的報告當中確實中國對台的這個滲透是可以說是五花八門\n22113\t29396\t本期想跟兩位了解的就是說2022年中國發生了火箭軍的洩密事件之後中國就很積極的開始推動一些國安相關法規的這個修訂還有這個反間諜法那反間諜法跟這些國安的規定在去年跟今年\n51685\t65675\t國人都想要再問因為像中國他的執法人員在主觀認定任何有損害國家安全餘地的人就是他就是觸犯了反間諜法所以到底他的紅線在哪裡國人一直想要問\n66275\t85393\t畢竟在中國畢竟還有很多的國人在那裡長期的這個定居或是說暑假也好或是工作也好到那裡去旅遊有沒有可能就因此觸犯了這個反間諜法我想請問國安局還有陸委會到底這些紅線在哪裡國人都很想了解\n85993\t103164\t這大概包括幾個部分一個部分是中共確實為了加強對國內政治社會的一個控制那通過很多的國安法制那這些國安法制包括剛剛委員所提到的反間諜法還有保守國家秘密法以及相關配套的作業規定跟相關的解釋意見不斷的出台\n103624\t127326\t那也造成了很多包括國際社會上對於到對岸來從事經商旅遊的風險警示不斷的在升高當中所以這是一個大的發展的態勢那第二部分可能在過程當中從去年到現在我們已經有15位的國人進入到對岸去之後遭到了拘禁還有審判那另外有51位的國人在經過了\n128647\t152610\t陸港澳的海關遭盤查詢問,我們也發現這個個案比例越來越高。主要問題回答委員的問題就在於說,他的國安法制解釋的空間太模糊了,也讓第一線的查查人員有他自己的權限來進行每一個不同個案的解釋。所以這是我們為什麼會對於陸委會提高對國人道對岸的一個旅遊警示的相關的一個\n154031\t172663\t提高的那個警示的程度我們都尊重陸委會相關的一個安排那至於委員在提問的是國人該注意什麼那從我們剛剛跟委員報告樣態裡面大概有幾個部分要特別注意的那第一個部分是假如曾經有公開的批判中共相關的黨政或是相關的人權問題的話\n174124\t200752\t這類人是在進出中國比較容易列為高風險的對象那第二個是曾經在高科技服務的那也曾經發生過有這樣的案例在進出海關的時候遭到了盤查跟詢問那第三個是有跟相關的一些公民組織或團體比較活躍的這些社團的人士在入境的時候也比較容易遭到盤查所以這大概是一些我們從去年以來所整理的樣態跟委員做個簡單的說明\n201972\t215865\t那如果說這個國人到中國去,在那之前,比如說他在網路上有搜尋的一些照片啊,地圖啊,或是有儲存的一些批評中國的這些文章,這些人有沒有可能出犯反間諜法?對,對,確實會,會,風險非常的大。這個是會,就算是儲存,\n221130\t221791\t中共海關確實會去查查我們的電子的設備\n239522\t264520\t那也會去看你以前的一些通訊的記錄還有你的聯絡人交友的狀況那這些他在經過勾勒之後認定你是可能涉及到國安風險的話可能就會啟動他的相關的一個徵訊的作業那這部分也是我們要特別提醒注意的另外再補充一點是假如以前在台灣具有公職或軍事或相關國安單位的退離職的人員復入的話風險也非常非常的高\n265240\t267141\t副主委對這部分有沒有想要跟國人提醒的部分?\n281809\t307765\t就是因為風險我們看到確實有提高的狀態所以我們才會把這個附入警示提升為橙色燈號那這個意思就是說我們意識到會有風險所以我們在警示國人自己要去的時候要特別注意那我們也可能要特別提醒國人因為我們現在也收到一些\n308786\t336709\t所謂在兩岸就是投資的一些科技公司大公司他們會來詢問我們說那如果他們派台幹台灣籍的幹部或是怎麼樣去那邊會有什麼需要注意的地方那我們都會跟他們提醒各種可能的樣態那據我知道他很多公司他現在已經開始就是派台灣籍幹部過去的時候都希望他們帶這個新的手機\n347873\t361137\t主委,今年4月他們有公布國家安全機關行政執法程序規定跟國家安全機關辦理刑事事件程序規定,它裡面都有提到執法人員是可以查驗電子設備,查驗電子設備是隨機就可以嗎?\n365579\t379935\t對因為他很多都是主觀認定因為他雖然雖然說就是有他們說我們的對象很明確他們雖然說對象很明確但是因為對我們外界的人來講對象其實是不知道他的對象到底是誰\n380876\t401678\t所以我還是建議說去大陸特別是如果你要在那邊待的比較長期的話就是自己的電子設備不管是手機或是平板電腦或者是筆記型電腦這些最好還是用新的帶過去這樣會比較好一點\n405743\t424534\t中國近期還是接連發生了一些攻擊外國人的事件引起外界很大的疑慮像美國上個月有兩起一個是有四位美國的學者被攻擊再來還有就是\n426056\t443356\t日本的一對母子也是被攻擊,類似這樣子的事件那會不會就是因為說中國他國內的一些仇美或仇日的一些言論造成這些事件的發生但我們比較擔心的就是像反台獨言論其實在中國這裡其實也是\n445818\t448342\t國安局和陸委會針對這些疑慮有沒有做一些怎麼樣防範的工作\n461518\t489501\t我們有在注意,也就是說現在在中國大陸有一個現象就是網路上有很多的資訊或是很多網紅散佈的影片那它有一些排外或是民族主義的情緒那中共的網管在這部分並沒有做嚴密的一個控管所以造成這些有問題的影片或相關言論常常是散佈了很久之後才遭到下架那可是已經閱聽的群眾已經非常非常的多\n489921\t490342\t我會做怎樣的防範?\n516523\t537055\t因為這麼多的國人在中國,我們也擔心他們的安全。對,我們還是要警示,就是有附路準備的話,可能還是要了解一下目前當地的一些樣態。那在當地的國人我們還是會警示他,假如說在外的一些活動還是要注意到不要跟一些比較陌生的人有太多\n538436\t540718\t陸委會是長期在呼籲國人要注意自己的安全但是因為我們\n559338\t575715\t國人在大陸確實人數非常多而且許多人他覺得說自己已經在大陸已經很熟悉了所以應該是安全無虞但是我們也看到不少案例就是很熟悉\n576816\t580118\t很熟悉,覺得自己安全無虞,所以才出了事。\n600350\t622533\t是,我是覺得副主委說的沒錯,國人常常想說,不會是我啊,對不對,就像反那個間諜法也是一樣,他說我平常我也沒做什麼事情啊,不會輪到我,所以他就覺得OK,沒問題,對,實際上我們有發現,其實之前就發生過,旅行團裡面有團員莫名其妙被帶走的這個事情,所以國人還是不得不謹慎。OK,好,以上謝謝。\n626438\t629689\t好 謝謝接下來請賴志寶委員上台質詢\n","txt":"有請國安局蔡局長還有陸委會兩副主委從我們這個國安單位的報告當中確實中國對台的這個滲透是可以說是五花八門\n本期想跟兩位了解的就是說2022年中國發生了火箭軍的洩密事件之後中國就很積極的開始推動一些國安相關法規的這個修訂還有這個反間諜法那反間諜法跟這些國安的規定在去年跟今年\n國人都想要再問因為像中國他的執法人員在主觀認定任何有損害國家安全餘地的人就是他就是觸犯了反間諜法所以到底他的紅線在哪裡國人一直想要問\n畢竟在中國畢竟還有很多的國人在那裡長期的這個定居或是說暑假也好或是工作也好到那裡去旅遊有沒有可能就因此觸犯了這個反間諜法我想請問國安局還有陸委會到底這些紅線在哪裡國人都很想了解\n這大概包括幾個部分一個部分是中共確實為了加強對國內政治社會的一個控制那通過很多的國安法制那這些國安法制包括剛剛委員所提到的反間諜法還有保守國家秘密法以及相關配套的作業規定跟相關的解釋意見不斷的出台\n那也造成了很多包括國際社會上對於到對岸來從事經商旅遊的風險警示不斷的在升高當中所以這是一個大的發展的態勢那第二部分可能在過程當中從去年到現在我們已經有15位的國人進入到對岸去之後遭到了拘禁還有審判那另外有51位的國人在經過了\n陸港澳的海關遭盤查詢問,我們也發現這個個案比例越來越高。主要問題回答委員的問題就在於說,他的國安法制解釋的空間太模糊了,也讓第一線的查查人員有他自己的權限來進行每一個不同個案的解釋。所以這是我們為什麼會對於陸委會提高對國人道對岸的一個旅遊警示的相關的一個\n提高的那個警示的程度我們都尊重陸委會相關的一個安排那至於委員在提問的是國人該注意什麼那從我們剛剛跟委員報告樣態裡面大概有幾個部分要特別注意的那第一個部分是假如曾經有公開的批判中共相關的黨政或是相關的人權問題的話\n這類人是在進出中國比較容易列為高風險的對象那第二個是曾經在高科技服務的那也曾經發生過有這樣的案例在進出海關的時候遭到了盤查跟詢問那第三個是有跟相關的一些公民組織或團體比較活躍的這些社團的人士在入境的時候也比較容易遭到盤查所以這大概是一些我們從去年以來所整理的樣態跟委員做個簡單的說明\n那如果說這個國人到中國去,在那之前,比如說他在網路上有搜尋的一些照片啊,地圖啊,或是有儲存的一些批評中國的這些文章,這些人有沒有可能出犯反間諜法?對,對,確實會,會,風險非常的大。這個是會,就算是儲存,\n中共海關確實會去查查我們的電子的設備\n那也會去看你以前的一些通訊的記錄還有你的聯絡人交友的狀況那這些他在經過勾勒之後認定你是可能涉及到國安風險的話可能就會啟動他的相關的一個徵訊的作業那這部分也是我們要特別提醒注意的另外再補充一點是假如以前在台灣具有公職或軍事或相關國安單位的退離職的人員復入的話風險也非常非常的高\n副主委對這部分有沒有想要跟國人提醒的部分?\n就是因為風險我們看到確實有提高的狀態所以我們才會把這個附入警示提升為橙色燈號那這個意思就是說我們意識到會有風險所以我們在警示國人自己要去的時候要特別注意那我們也可能要特別提醒國人因為我們現在也收到一些\n所謂在兩岸就是投資的一些科技公司大公司他們會來詢問我們說那如果他們派台幹台灣籍的幹部或是怎麼樣去那邊會有什麼需要注意的地方那我們都會跟他們提醒各種可能的樣態那據我知道他很多公司他現在已經開始就是派台灣籍幹部過去的時候都希望他們帶這個新的手機\n主委,今年4月他們有公布國家安全機關行政執法程序規定跟國家安全機關辦理刑事事件程序規定,它裡面都有提到執法人員是可以查驗電子設備,查驗電子設備是隨機就可以嗎?\n對因為他很多都是主觀認定因為他雖然雖然說就是有他們說我們的對象很明確他們雖然說對象很明確但是因為對我們外界的人來講對象其實是不知道他的對象到底是誰\n所以我還是建議說去大陸特別是如果你要在那邊待的比較長期的話就是自己的電子設備不管是手機或是平板電腦或者是筆記型電腦這些最好還是用新的帶過去這樣會比較好一點\n中國近期還是接連發生了一些攻擊外國人的事件引起外界很大的疑慮像美國上個月有兩起一個是有四位美國的學者被攻擊再來還有就是\n日本的一對母子也是被攻擊,類似這樣子的事件那會不會就是因為說中國他國內的一些仇美或仇日的一些言論造成這些事件的發生但我們比較擔心的就是像反台獨言論其實在中國這裡其實也是\n國安局和陸委會針對這些疑慮有沒有做一些怎麼樣防範的工作\n我們有在注意,也就是說現在在中國大陸有一個現象就是網路上有很多的資訊或是很多網紅散佈的影片那它有一些排外或是民族主義的情緒那中共的網管在這部分並沒有做嚴密的一個控管所以造成這些有問題的影片或相關言論常常是散佈了很久之後才遭到下架那可是已經閱聽的群眾已經非常非常的多\n我會做怎樣的防範?\n因為這麼多的國人在中國,我們也擔心他們的安全。對,我們還是要警示,就是有附路準備的話,可能還是要了解一下目前當地的一些樣態。那在當地的國人我們還是會警示他,假如說在外的一些活動還是要注意到不要跟一些比較陌生的人有太多\n陸委會是長期在呼籲國人要注意自己的安全但是因為我們\n國人在大陸確實人數非常多而且許多人他覺得說自己已經在大陸已經很熟悉了所以應該是安全無虞但是我們也看到不少案例就是很熟悉\n很熟悉,覺得自己安全無虞,所以才出了事。\n是,我是覺得副主委說的沒錯,國人常常想說,不會是我啊,對不對,就像反那個間諜法也是一樣,他說我平常我也沒做什麼事情啊,不會輪到我,所以他就覺得OK,沒問題,對,實際上我們有發現,其實之前就發生過,旅行團裡面有團員莫名其妙被帶走的這個事情,所以國人還是不得不謹慎。OK,好,以上謝謝。\n好 謝謝接下來請賴志寶委員上台質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:04.354\n有請國安局蔡局長還有陸委會兩副主委從我們這個國安單位的報告當中確實中國對台的這個滲透是可以說是五花八門\n\n00:22.113 --> 00:29.396\n本期想跟兩位了解的就是說2022年中國發生了火箭軍的洩密事件之後中國就很積極的開始推動一些國安相關法規的這個修訂還有這個反間諜法那反間諜法跟這些國安的規定在去年跟今年\n\n00:51.685 --> 01:05.675\n國人都想要再問因為像中國他的執法人員在主觀認定任何有損害國家安全餘地的人就是他就是觸犯了反間諜法所以到底他的紅線在哪裡國人一直想要問\n\n01:06.275 --> 01:25.393\n畢竟在中國畢竟還有很多的國人在那裡長期的這個定居或是說暑假也好或是工作也好到那裡去旅遊有沒有可能就因此觸犯了這個反間諜法我想請問國安局還有陸委會到底這些紅線在哪裡國人都很想了解\n\n01:25.993 --> 01:43.164\n這大概包括幾個部分一個部分是中共確實為了加強對國內政治社會的一個控制那通過很多的國安法制那這些國安法制包括剛剛委員所提到的反間諜法還有保守國家秘密法以及相關配套的作業規定跟相關的解釋意見不斷的出台\n\n01:43.624 --> 02:07.326\n那也造成了很多包括國際社會上對於到對岸來從事經商旅遊的風險警示不斷的在升高當中所以這是一個大的發展的態勢那第二部分可能在過程當中從去年到現在我們已經有15位的國人進入到對岸去之後遭到了拘禁還有審判那另外有51位的國人在經過了\n\n02:08.647 --> 02:32.610\n陸港澳的海關遭盤查詢問,我們也發現這個個案比例越來越高。主要問題回答委員的問題就在於說,他的國安法制解釋的空間太模糊了,也讓第一線的查查人員有他自己的權限來進行每一個不同個案的解釋。所以這是我們為什麼會對於陸委會提高對國人道對岸的一個旅遊警示的相關的一個\n\n02:34.031 --> 02:52.663\n提高的那個警示的程度我們都尊重陸委會相關的一個安排那至於委員在提問的是國人該注意什麼那從我們剛剛跟委員報告樣態裡面大概有幾個部分要特別注意的那第一個部分是假如曾經有公開的批判中共相關的黨政或是相關的人權問題的話\n\n02:54.124 --> 03:20.752\n這類人是在進出中國比較容易列為高風險的對象那第二個是曾經在高科技服務的那也曾經發生過有這樣的案例在進出海關的時候遭到了盤查跟詢問那第三個是有跟相關的一些公民組織或團體比較活躍的這些社團的人士在入境的時候也比較容易遭到盤查所以這大概是一些我們從去年以來所整理的樣態跟委員做個簡單的說明\n\n03:21.972 --> 03:35.865\n那如果說這個國人到中國去,在那之前,比如說他在網路上有搜尋的一些照片啊,地圖啊,或是有儲存的一些批評中國的這些文章,這些人有沒有可能出犯反間諜法?對,對,確實會,會,風險非常的大。這個是會,就算是儲存,\n\n03:41.130 --> 03:41.791\n中共海關確實會去查查我們的電子的設備\n\n03:59.522 --> 04:24.520\n那也會去看你以前的一些通訊的記錄還有你的聯絡人交友的狀況那這些他在經過勾勒之後認定你是可能涉及到國安風險的話可能就會啟動他的相關的一個徵訊的作業那這部分也是我們要特別提醒注意的另外再補充一點是假如以前在台灣具有公職或軍事或相關國安單位的退離職的人員復入的話風險也非常非常的高\n\n04:25.240 --> 04:27.141\n副主委對這部分有沒有想要跟國人提醒的部分?\n\n04:41.809 --> 05:07.765\n就是因為風險我們看到確實有提高的狀態所以我們才會把這個附入警示提升為橙色燈號那這個意思就是說我們意識到會有風險所以我們在警示國人自己要去的時候要特別注意那我們也可能要特別提醒國人因為我們現在也收到一些\n\n05:08.786 --> 05:36.709\n所謂在兩岸就是投資的一些科技公司大公司他們會來詢問我們說那如果他們派台幹台灣籍的幹部或是怎麼樣去那邊會有什麼需要注意的地方那我們都會跟他們提醒各種可能的樣態那據我知道他很多公司他現在已經開始就是派台灣籍幹部過去的時候都希望他們帶這個新的手機\n\n05:47.873 --> 06:01.137\n主委,今年4月他們有公布國家安全機關行政執法程序規定跟國家安全機關辦理刑事事件程序規定,它裡面都有提到執法人員是可以查驗電子設備,查驗電子設備是隨機就可以嗎?\n\n06:05.579 --> 06:19.935\n對因為他很多都是主觀認定因為他雖然雖然說就是有他們說我們的對象很明確他們雖然說對象很明確但是因為對我們外界的人來講對象其實是不知道他的對象到底是誰\n\n06:20.876 --> 06:41.678\n所以我還是建議說去大陸特別是如果你要在那邊待的比較長期的話就是自己的電子設備不管是手機或是平板電腦或者是筆記型電腦這些最好還是用新的帶過去這樣會比較好一點\n\n06:45.743 --> 07:04.534\n中國近期還是接連發生了一些攻擊外國人的事件引起外界很大的疑慮像美國上個月有兩起一個是有四位美國的學者被攻擊再來還有就是\n\n07:06.056 --> 07:23.356\n日本的一對母子也是被攻擊,類似這樣子的事件那會不會就是因為說中國他國內的一些仇美或仇日的一些言論造成這些事件的發生但我們比較擔心的就是像反台獨言論其實在中國這裡其實也是\n\n07:25.818 --> 07:28.342\n國安局和陸委會針對這些疑慮有沒有做一些怎麼樣防範的工作\n\n07:41.518 --> 08:09.501\n我們有在注意,也就是說現在在中國大陸有一個現象就是網路上有很多的資訊或是很多網紅散佈的影片那它有一些排外或是民族主義的情緒那中共的網管在這部分並沒有做嚴密的一個控管所以造成這些有問題的影片或相關言論常常是散佈了很久之後才遭到下架那可是已經閱聽的群眾已經非常非常的多\n\n08:09.921 --> 08:10.342\n我會做怎樣的防範?\n\n08:36.523 --> 08:57.055\n因為這麼多的國人在中國,我們也擔心他們的安全。對,我們還是要警示,就是有附路準備的話,可能還是要了解一下目前當地的一些樣態。那在當地的國人我們還是會警示他,假如說在外的一些活動還是要注意到不要跟一些比較陌生的人有太多\n\n08:58.436 --> 09:00.718\n陸委會是長期在呼籲國人要注意自己的安全但是因為我們\n\n09:19.338 --> 09:35.715\n國人在大陸確實人數非常多而且許多人他覺得說自己已經在大陸已經很熟悉了所以應該是安全無虞但是我們也看到不少案例就是很熟悉\n\n09:36.816 --> 09:40.118\n很熟悉,覺得自己安全無虞,所以才出了事。\n\n10:00.350 --> 10:22.533\n是,我是覺得副主委說的沒錯,國人常常想說,不會是我啊,對不對,就像反那個間諜法也是一樣,他說我平常我也沒做什麼事情啊,不會輪到我,所以他就覺得OK,沒問題,對,實際上我們有發現,其實之前就發生過,旅行團裡面有團員莫名其妙被帶走的這個事情,所以國人還是不得不謹慎。OK,好,以上謝謝。\n\n10:26.438 --> 10:29.689\n好謝謝接下來請賴志寶委員上台質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":4.354,"text":"有請國安局蔡局長還有陸委會兩副主委從我們這個國安單位的報告當中確實中國對台的這個滲透是可以說是五花八門"},{"start":22.113,"end":29.396,"text":"本期想跟兩位了解的就是說2022年中國發生了火箭軍的洩密事件之後中國就很積極的開始推動一些國安相關法規的這個修訂還有這個反間諜法那反間諜法跟這些國安的規定在去年跟今年"},{"start":51.685,"end":65.675,"text":"國人都想要再問因為像中國他的執法人員在主觀認定任何有損害國家安全餘地的人就是他就是觸犯了反間諜法所以到底他的紅線在哪裡國人一直想要問"},{"start":66.275,"end":85.393,"text":"畢竟在中國畢竟還有很多的國人在那裡長期的這個定居或是說暑假也好或是工作也好到那裡去旅遊有沒有可能就因此觸犯了這個反間諜法我想請問國安局還有陸委會到底這些紅線在哪裡國人都很想了解"},{"start":85.993,"end":103.164,"text":"這大概包括幾個部分一個部分是中共確實為了加強對國內政治社會的一個控制那通過很多的國安法制那這些國安法制包括剛剛委員所提到的反間諜法還有保守國家秘密法以及相關配套的作業規定跟相關的解釋意見不斷的出台"},{"start":103.624,"end":127.326,"text":"那也造成了很多包括國際社會上對於到對岸來從事經商旅遊的風險警示不斷的在升高當中所以這是一個大的發展的態勢那第二部分可能在過程當中從去年到現在我們已經有15位的國人進入到對岸去之後遭到了拘禁還有審判那另外有51位的國人在經過了"},{"start":128.647,"end":152.61,"text":"陸港澳的海關遭盤查詢問,我們也發現這個個案比例越來越高。主要問題回答委員的問題就在於說,他的國安法制解釋的空間太模糊了,也讓第一線的查查人員有他自己的權限來進行每一個不同個案的解釋。所以這是我們為什麼會對於陸委會提高對國人道對岸的一個旅遊警示的相關的一個"},{"start":154.031,"end":172.663,"text":"提高的那個警示的程度我們都尊重陸委會相關的一個安排那至於委員在提問的是國人該注意什麼那從我們剛剛跟委員報告樣態裡面大概有幾個部分要特別注意的那第一個部分是假如曾經有公開的批判中共相關的黨政或是相關的人權問題的話"},{"start":174.124,"end":200.752,"text":"這類人是在進出中國比較容易列為高風險的對象那第二個是曾經在高科技服務的那也曾經發生過有這樣的案例在進出海關的時候遭到了盤查跟詢問那第三個是有跟相關的一些公民組織或團體比較活躍的這些社團的人士在入境的時候也比較容易遭到盤查所以這大概是一些我們從去年以來所整理的樣態跟委員做個簡單的說明"},{"start":201.972,"end":215.865,"text":"那如果說這個國人到中國去,在那之前,比如說他在網路上有搜尋的一些照片啊,地圖啊,或是有儲存的一些批評中國的這些文章,這些人有沒有可能出犯反間諜法?對,對,確實會,會,風險非常的大。這個是會,就算是儲存,"},{"start":221.13,"end":221.791,"text":"中共海關確實會去查查我們的電子的設備"},{"start":239.522,"end":264.52,"text":"那也會去看你以前的一些通訊的記錄還有你的聯絡人交友的狀況那這些他在經過勾勒之後認定你是可能涉及到國安風險的話可能就會啟動他的相關的一個徵訊的作業那這部分也是我們要特別提醒注意的另外再補充一點是假如以前在台灣具有公職或軍事或相關國安單位的退離職的人員復入的話風險也非常非常的高"},{"start":265.24,"end":267.141,"text":"副主委對這部分有沒有想要跟國人提醒的部分?"},{"start":281.809,"end":307.765,"text":"就是因為風險我們看到確實有提高的狀態所以我們才會把這個附入警示提升為橙色燈號那這個意思就是說我們意識到會有風險所以我們在警示國人自己要去的時候要特別注意那我們也可能要特別提醒國人因為我們現在也收到一些"},{"start":308.786,"end":336.709,"text":"所謂在兩岸就是投資的一些科技公司大公司他們會來詢問我們說那如果他們派台幹台灣籍的幹部或是怎麼樣去那邊會有什麼需要注意的地方那我們都會跟他們提醒各種可能的樣態那據我知道他很多公司他現在已經開始就是派台灣籍幹部過去的時候都希望他們帶這個新的手機"},{"start":347.873,"end":361.137,"text":"主委,今年4月他們有公布國家安全機關行政執法程序規定跟國家安全機關辦理刑事事件程序規定,它裡面都有提到執法人員是可以查驗電子設備,查驗電子設備是隨機就可以嗎?"},{"start":365.579,"end":379.935,"text":"對因為他很多都是主觀認定因為他雖然雖然說就是有他們說我們的對象很明確他們雖然說對象很明確但是因為對我們外界的人來講對象其實是不知道他的對象到底是誰"},{"start":380.876,"end":401.678,"text":"所以我還是建議說去大陸特別是如果你要在那邊待的比較長期的話就是自己的電子設備不管是手機或是平板電腦或者是筆記型電腦這些最好還是用新的帶過去這樣會比較好一點"},{"start":405.743,"end":424.534,"text":"中國近期還是接連發生了一些攻擊外國人的事件引起外界很大的疑慮像美國上個月有兩起一個是有四位美國的學者被攻擊再來還有就是"},{"start":426.056,"end":443.356,"text":"日本的一對母子也是被攻擊,類似這樣子的事件那會不會就是因為說中國他國內的一些仇美或仇日的一些言論造成這些事件的發生但我們比較擔心的就是像反台獨言論其實在中國這裡其實也是"},{"start":445.818,"end":448.342,"text":"國安局和陸委會針對這些疑慮有沒有做一些怎麼樣防範的工作"},{"start":461.518,"end":489.501,"text":"我們有在注意,也就是說現在在中國大陸有一個現象就是網路上有很多的資訊或是很多網紅散佈的影片那它有一些排外或是民族主義的情緒那中共的網管在這部分並沒有做嚴密的一個控管所以造成這些有問題的影片或相關言論常常是散佈了很久之後才遭到下架那可是已經閱聽的群眾已經非常非常的多"},{"start":489.921,"end":490.342,"text":"我會做怎樣的防範?"},{"start":516.523,"end":537.055,"text":"因為這麼多的國人在中國,我們也擔心他們的安全。對,我們還是要警示,就是有附路準備的話,可能還是要了解一下目前當地的一些樣態。那在當地的國人我們還是會警示他,假如說在外的一些活動還是要注意到不要跟一些比較陌生的人有太多"},{"start":538.436,"end":540.718,"text":"陸委會是長期在呼籲國人要注意自己的安全但是因為我們"},{"start":559.338,"end":575.715,"text":"國人在大陸確實人數非常多而且許多人他覺得說自己已經在大陸已經很熟悉了所以應該是安全無虞但是我們也看到不少案例就是很熟悉"},{"start":576.816,"end":580.118,"text":"很熟悉,覺得自己安全無虞,所以才出了事。"},{"start":600.35,"end":622.533,"text":"是,我是覺得副主委說的沒錯,國人常常想說,不會是我啊,對不對,就像反那個間諜法也是一樣,他說我平常我也沒做什麼事情啊,不會輪到我,所以他就覺得OK,沒問題,對,實際上我們有發現,其實之前就發生過,旅行團裡面有團員莫名其妙被帶走的這個事情,所以國人還是不得不謹慎。OK,好,以上謝謝。"},{"start":626.438,"end":629.689,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請賴志寶委員上台質詢"}]}}}}