{"id":154562,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154562","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/80b8605eb635256a5d4852edafa849e8ce876c6524d02f36cf84bbc3b5148b9390620376bfb8ca735ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"10:38:36 - 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{\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 286.713, \"end\": 286.773, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"片\", \"start\": 286.773, \"end\": 286.793, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 286.793, \"end\": 286.813, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 286.813, \"end\": 286.833, \"score\": 0.017}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 286.833, \"end\": 286.873, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 286.873, \"end\": 286.893, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 286.893, \"end\": 286.933, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 286.933, \"end\": 286.953, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 286.953, \"end\": 287.013, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 287.013, \"end\": 287.033, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 287.033, \"end\": 287.093, \"score\": 0.291}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 287.093, \"end\": 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\"清\", \"start\": 287.613, \"end\": 287.693, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 287.693, \"end\": 287.713, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 287.713, \"end\": 287.733, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 287.733, \"end\": 287.753, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 287.753, \"end\": 287.833, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 287.833, \"end\": 287.853, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 287.853, \"end\": 287.893, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 287.893, \"end\": 287.913, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"蓮\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 287.913, \"end\": 287.933, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 287.933, \"end\": 287.973, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 287.973, \"end\": 288.013, \"score\": 0.098}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 288.013, \"end\": 288.033, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"嚇\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 288.033, \"end\": 288.093, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 288.093, \"end\": 288.113, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 311.201, \"end\": 319.303, \"text\": \"所以對於反制虛假的訊息的認知作戰我想說是不是有很多民眾都查證的手段比較有限所以就以LINE的訊息查證來說其實目前只能用訊息還有文字連結跟文字型的梗圖幾個方式影片就沒有辦法那請問調查局是不是可以回去研議看看要如何讓民眾可以透過上傳的影片來查證這種真偽然後而且有很多群組上流傳的虛假的影片大部分都是影片的形式\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 311.201, \"end\": 311.321, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 311.321, \"end\": 311.701, \"score\": 0.607}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 311.701, \"end\": 311.881, \"score\": 0.596}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 311.881, \"end\": 311.901, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 311.901, \"end\": 312.161, \"score\": 0.608}, {\"word\": \"虛\"}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 312.161, \"end\": 312.181, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 312.181, 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655.335, \"end\": 655.535, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 655.535, \"end\": 655.816, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"泉\", \"start\": 655.816, \"end\": 655.936, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 655.936, \"end\": 656.236, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 656.236, \"end\": 656.336, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 656.336, \"end\": 656.496, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"鄭\"}, {\"word\": \"振\", \"start\": 656.496, \"end\": 656.656, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"淺\"}, {\"word\": \"鄭\"}, {\"word\": \"振\", \"start\": 656.656, \"end\": 656.676, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"淺\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:09,405\n主席好請調查局局長請陳局長主席好委員好\n\n2\n00:00:25,630 --> 00:00:48,022\n局長好近年來中共對台灣的認知作戰的樣態還有手段和密度都大幅的提升企圖藉引導性的虛假的訊息企圖影響台灣人對國安的情勢的認知甚至企圖會迫害台灣內部的團結所以這也是調查局今年成立認知作戰研究中心的原因嗎是\n\n3\n00:00:49,683 --> 00:01:12,969\n那說到認知作戰的話本席就是有一個實際最近我們花蓮群組上面流傳的假消息的影片的案例近期我們花蓮很多LINE的群組上面突然就收到了一支影片這個影片描述了中共與我國的軍機如何在我們花蓮東部的附近的空域上面對峙最後國軍戰機遭到包圍後又驅趕\n\n4\n00:01:14,369 --> 00:01:18,931\n可是這個影片錯誤擺出顯示是中共認知作戰的虛假消息但是因為當天也正好有中共的軍機來騷擾所以我們地方服務處的同仁馬上就很緊張在問這是不是真的有這一回事呢還好我們就馬上請國會的辦公室同仁快點協助的查證後面發現這支影片其實是錯誤擺出包括發生的時間不對還有發生的地點有問題還有戰機編隊飛行的架數也不對\n\n5\n00:01:44,179 --> 00:01:52,606\n就連配音大陸的口音的影片也對不起來因此我們立即就判斷這影片應該是虛假的訊息可能是認知作戰的手法所以馬上動用所有的方法去澄清呼籲花蓮的鄉親不要再轉傳這個影片但是這樣真的讓我們覺得是蠻無助的\n\n6\n00:02:03,655 --> 00:02:28,415\n因為這種假訊息出來的時候民眾沒有辦法去判斷這個影片的真偽然後政府機關在澄清訊息上又常常漏網之魚所以我們常常只能用人工回傳訊息快點幫忙澄清那本席想要請教一下局長為了應對這種虛假的訊息調查局除了前端的學術的研究之外目前還有哪些手段可以讓民眾及時查證訊息的呢\n\n7\n00:02:31,456 --> 00:02:52,144\n是,謝謝委員那個委員剛提到的這一則其實這一則是一個很舊的假訊息那在今年又重新再把它拿出來去傳散那也謝謝委員在第一時間您的團隊就來協助來澄清那民眾如果接到這一類的訊息其實我們其實目前有很多的這個\n\n8\n00:02:54,105 --> 00:03:19,358\n類似像事實查核中心、美育儀等等的這些可以第一時間讓我們能夠初步的去了解看看這一則訊息是不是之前已經出現過的一個假的訊息然後這一則訊息在網路上普遍的回應的狀況是怎麼樣可以讓我們第一時間初步來判斷這個訊息的真偽那在調查局的部分我們其實認知戰研究中心目前也是在\n\n9\n00:03:21,421 --> 00:03:26,335\n剛開始成立的一個初期我們慢慢的盡量希望能夠\n\n10\n00:03:27,952 --> 00:03:50,681\n點點滴滴的去堆積我們的實戰的經驗那目前除了我們對於認知訊息的研究以外我們也希望能夠在應處的部分能夠縮短那個時效能夠在最短時間內能夠確定這個是一個假的訊息然後發佈澄清的資訊給民眾那不過這種假訊息因為中國對台灣的這種認知戰\n\n11\n00:03:52,762 --> 00:04:13,934\n的攻擊作戰,其實是一個複合性的作戰,量其實非常非常的大,尤其在選舉的期間,這個非常非常的大。我們其實希望能夠建構我們的國人基本上要有一個比較強的一個嗜毒的能力,這個是一個比較根本的一個有效\n\n12\n00:04:14,594 --> 00:04:42,451\n但是我除了看LINE可以即時的查證因為這個證人會造成大家恐慌其實都需要政府等待政府的澄清就是說萬一政府沒有主動澄清那民眾不是都傻傻的被這些假訊息欺騙了而且大家甚至還會轉傳然後北市想要提醒一下局長剛才說的政府的主動澄清還有一些就是政府通常會去抓一些流量比較高的比較不實的訊息但是流量不高的那種密集發送的訊息就會變成了一個漏網之魚\n\n13\n00:04:44,352 --> 00:04:48,113\n可是如果民眾查核的時間查核的管道又不多的話民眾就會很難查核這個是真偽是真的還是假的呢這樣的話就會造成民眾的恐慌還有誤判像剛才我說的那個所以那個在我們花蓮群組上瘋傳不實的影片其實6月28就開始傳了但是事實上查核中心去三天之後7月1號才開始澄清這個訊息其實這個時候都已經我們花蓮人都已經快嚇死了\n\n14\n00:05:11,201 --> 00:05:19,303\n所以對於反制虛假的訊息的認知作戰我想說是不是有很多民眾都查證的手段比較有限所以就以LINE的訊息查證來說其實目前只能用訊息還有文字連結跟文字型的梗圖幾個方式影片就沒有辦法那請問調查局是不是可以回去研議看看要如何讓民眾可以透過上傳的影片來查證這種真偽然後而且有很多群組上流傳的虛假的影片大部分都是影片的形式\n\n15\n00:05:40,268 --> 00:05:41,149\n請副主委\n\n16\n00:06:13,317 --> 00:06:28,084\n副主委好賴清德總統在520就職演說上談到了中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬此外賴總統也是在7月1號中研院的晚宴中第五度提到這樣的說法\n\n17\n00:06:28,624 --> 00:06:42,239\n但同一天副主委你在接受廣播節目的時候你說除了憲法在其他法律制度我們一切的做法都是以對方當國家要叫兩岸或是中華民國或中華民國共和國都好實質上是兩個國家後來主持人也在總結的時候問到憲法兩岸實質兩國\n\n18\n00:06:47,665 --> 00:06:53,048\n然後那時候你也是同意的那我想要請教副主委一下你覺得你自己的說法有沒有超抑了賴總統的說法呢還是畢竟兩岸關係的用語是非常小心謹慎的而你自己又代表政府的政務官那你身為陸委會的副主委本席希望你在國會殿堂上可能要說清楚不要讓台灣的民眾還是北京當局有誤會還有你認為兩岸互不隸屬與兩國互不隸屬有沒有什麼不同呢\n\n19\n00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:33,957\n還有因為入委會是按照兩岸人民關係條例所設置的所以不過既然你是覺得兩岸實質是兩國這種話那請問是不是表示說如今你自己自己不是入委會首長官員的前提下你個人是贊成將入委會納入外交部呢?\n\n20\n00:07:35,743 --> 00:07:54,421\n報告委員我那天是在上廣播節目所以就是等於算是很多算是用聊天的方式但是媒體會去脈絡化的把我一句話給擷取出來所以我覺得這個有點不是很精確那我必須說那天是談到說\n\n21\n00:07:56,443 --> 00:08:10,298\n例如說臺灣跟大陸的關係例如說談到我們的健保資格的問題那我們的大法官相關的解釋也有很明確說就是健保只有這個有中華民國\n\n22\n00:08:11,559 --> 00:08:14,843\n所以你覺得那天有沒有說錯還是覺得是大家希望把你擷取錯誤呢我覺得是有點去脈絡化去擷取我的說法這樣子\n\n23\n00:08:28,868 --> 00:08:49,670\n好那我接下來再請問你一個問題就是說前天我們大進滿88號漁船被中國海警船帶走海巡署在隔天已經有說明了這艘漁船是在大陸公告5到8月的時候海洋伏計休漁期跑到大陸臨海內去越界捕撈那請問一下副主委現在大陸那邊交涉由陸委會跟漁業署負責是嗎\n\n24\n00:08:54,317 --> 00:08:58,704\n請問什麼時候可以放人放船?他們家人都是非常的心急,大家都在等待。\n\n25\n00:08:59,778 --> 00:09:21,209\n我應該這樣講就是說因為他這個處罰的範圍其實是有點大根據他們自己的法律處罰的範圍是有點大他最嚴可以處罰到三年以下的有期徒刑但是最輕可以到法狂我現在就問說什麼時候可以放人像你們現在溝通的情況是怎麼樣應該是說他們現在還沒決定\n\n26\n00:09:24,252 --> 00:09:52,946\n所以那你現在判斷這次陸委會判斷這次大進滿88號漁船被帶走是只是對於我們的漁民簡單的漁船越界捕撈的事件還是有一些政治上面的意圖呢我覺得這個事情我會比較把它當成一個個案來看待那其實它也不是因為越界的關係因為在對岸的角度來講台灣的漁民沒有越界的問題\n\n27\n00:09:54,687 --> 00:09:54,947\n所以問題在這裡,這樣子。\n\n28\n00:10:15,959 --> 00:10:33,285\n所以我還是希望副主委你現在身為行政官員已經不是民意代表了希望你專責海峽兩岸事務的主管機關往後你還是要稍微謹言慎行對這種不要引起大家不必要的誤會而且國人就開始緊張起來了也很害怕兩岸是不是會戰爭是不是會打起來\n\n29\n00:10:35,566 --> 00:10:39,748\n還有希望陸委會能夠發揮最大的政治上面的智慧在不升高兩岸情勢下和平的對話的情況下盡早快點把我們的漁民帶回來因為我們從2月開始大陸漁船翻船到現在到大紀滿88號的事件其實這個都在反映兩岸既有的事物啊但是\n\n30\n00:10:55,055 --> 00:10:56,676\n接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請鄭振淺鄭振淺\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4040\t9405\t主席好 請調查局局長請陳局長主席好 委員好\n25630\t48022\t局長好近年來中共對台灣的認知作戰的樣態還有手段和密度都大幅的提升企圖藉引導性的虛假的訊息企圖影響台灣人對國安的情勢的認知甚至企圖會迫害台灣內部的團結所以這也是調查局今年成立認知作戰研究中心的原因嗎是\n49683\t72969\t那說到認知作戰的話本席就是有一個實際最近我們花蓮群組上面流傳的假消息的影片的案例近期我們花蓮很多LINE的群組上面突然就收到了一支影片這個影片描述了中共與我國的軍機如何在我們花蓮東部的附近的空域上面對峙最後國軍戰機遭到包圍後又驅趕\n74369\t78931\t可是這個影片錯誤擺出顯示是中共認知作戰的虛假消息但是因為當天也正好有中共的軍機來騷擾所以我們地方服務處的同仁馬上就很緊張在問這是不是真的有這一回事呢還好我們就馬上請國會的辦公室同仁快點協助的查證後面發現這支影片其實是錯誤擺出包括發生的時間不對還有發生的地點有問題還有戰機編隊飛行的架數也不對\n104179\t112606\t就連配音大陸的口音的影片也對不起來因此我們立即就判斷這影片應該是虛假的訊息可能是認知作戰的手法所以馬上動用所有的方法去澄清呼籲花蓮的鄉親不要再轉傳這個影片但是這樣真的讓我們覺得是蠻無助的\n123655\t148415\t因為這種假訊息出來的時候民眾沒有辦法去判斷這個影片的真偽然後政府機關在澄清訊息上又常常漏網之魚所以我們常常只能用人工回傳訊息快點幫忙澄清那本席想要請教一下局長為了應對這種虛假的訊息調查局除了前端的學術的研究之外目前還有哪些手段可以讓民眾及時查證訊息的呢\n151456\t172144\t是,謝謝委員那個委員剛提到的這一則其實這一則是一個很舊的假訊息那在今年又重新再把它拿出來去傳散那也謝謝委員在第一時間您的團隊就來協助來澄清那民眾如果接到這一類的訊息其實我們其實目前有很多的這個\n174105\t199358\t類似像事實查核中心、美育儀等等的這些可以第一時間讓我們能夠初步的去了解看看這一則訊息是不是之前已經出現過的一個假的訊息然後這一則訊息在網路上普遍的回應的狀況是怎麼樣可以讓我們第一時間初步來判斷這個訊息的真偽那在調查局的部分我們其實認知戰研究中心目前也是在\n201421\t206335\t剛開始成立的一個初期我們慢慢的盡量希望能夠\n207952\t230681\t點點滴滴的去堆積我們的實戰的經驗那目前除了我們對於認知訊息的研究以外我們也希望能夠在應處的部分能夠縮短那個時效能夠在最短時間內能夠確定這個是一個假的訊息然後發佈澄清的資訊給民眾那不過這種假訊息因為中國對台灣的這種認知戰\n232762\t253934\t的攻擊作戰,其實是一個複合性的作戰,量其實非常非常的大,尤其在選舉的期間,這個非常非常的大。我們其實希望能夠建構我們的國人基本上要有一個比較強的一個嗜毒的能力,這個是一個比較根本的一個有效\n254594\t282451\t但是我除了看LINE可以即時的查證因為這個證人會造成大家恐慌其實都需要政府等待政府的澄清就是說萬一政府沒有主動澄清那民眾不是都傻傻的被這些假訊息欺騙了而且大家甚至還會轉傳然後北市想要提醒一下局長剛才說的政府的主動澄清還有一些就是政府通常會去抓一些流量比較高的比較不實的訊息但是流量不高的那種密集發送的訊息就會變成了一個漏網之魚\n284352\t288113\t可是如果民眾查核的時間查核的管道又不多的話民眾就會很難查核這個是真偽是真的還是假的呢這樣的話就會造成民眾的恐慌還有誤判像剛才我說的那個所以那個在我們花蓮群組上瘋傳不實的影片其實6月28就開始傳了但是事實上查核中心去三天之後7月1號才開始澄清這個訊息其實這個時候都已經我們花蓮人都已經快嚇死了\n311201\t319303\t所以對於反制虛假的訊息的認知作戰我想說是不是有很多民眾都查證的手段比較有限所以就以LINE的訊息查證來說其實目前只能用訊息還有文字連結跟文字型的梗圖幾個方式影片就沒有辦法那請問調查局是不是可以回去研議看看要如何讓民眾可以透過上傳的影片來查證這種真偽然後而且有很多群組上流傳的虛假的影片大部分都是影片的形式\n340268\t341149\t請副主委\n373317\t388084\t副主委好賴清德總統在520就職演說上談到了中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬此外賴總統也是在7月1號中研院的晚宴中第五度提到這樣的說法\n388624\t402239\t但同一天副主委你在接受廣播節目的時候你說除了憲法在其他法律制度我們一切的做法都是以對方當國家要叫兩岸或是中華民國或中華民國共和國都好實質上是兩個國家後來主持人也在總結的時候問到憲法兩岸實質兩國\n407665\t413048\t然後那時候你也是同意的那我想要請教副主委一下你覺得你自己的說法有沒有超抑了賴總統的說法呢還是畢竟兩岸關係的用語是非常小心謹慎的而你自己又代表政府的政務官那你身為陸委會的副主委本席希望你在國會殿堂上可能要說清楚不要讓台灣的民眾還是北京當局有誤會還有你認為兩岸互不隸屬與兩國互不隸屬有沒有什麼不同呢\n435720\t453957\t還有因為入委會是按照兩岸人民關係條例所設置的所以不過既然你是覺得兩岸實質是兩國這種話那請問是不是表示說如今你自己自己不是入委會首長官員的前提下你個人是贊成將入委會納入外交部呢?\n455743\t474421\t報告委員我那天是在上廣播節目所以就是等於算是很多算是用聊天的方式但是媒體會去脈絡化的把我一句話給擷取出來所以我覺得這個有點不是很精確那我必須說那天是談到說\n476443\t490298\t例如說臺灣跟大陸的關係例如說談到我們的健保資格的問題那我們的大法官相關的解釋也有很明確說就是健保只有這個有中華民國\n491559\t494843\t所以你覺得那天有沒有說錯還是覺得是大家希望把你擷取錯誤呢我覺得是有點去脈絡化去擷取我的說法這樣子\n508868\t529670\t好那我接下來再請問你一個問題就是說前天我們大進滿88號漁船被中國海警船帶走海巡署在隔天已經有說明了這艘漁船是在大陸公告5到8月的時候海洋伏計休漁期跑到大陸臨海內去越界捕撈那請問一下副主委現在大陸那邊交涉由陸委會跟漁業署負責是嗎\n534317\t538704\t請問什麼時候可以放人放船?他們家人都是非常的心急,大家都在等待。\n539778\t561209\t我應該這樣講就是說因為他這個處罰的範圍其實是有點大根據他們自己的法律處罰的範圍是有點大他最嚴可以處罰到三年以下的有期徒刑但是最輕可以到法狂我現在就問說什麼時候可以放人像你們現在溝通的情況是怎麼樣應該是說他們現在還沒決定\n564252\t592946\t所以那你現在判斷這次陸委會判斷這次大進滿88號漁船被帶走是只是對於我們的漁民簡單的漁船越界捕撈的事件還是有一些政治上面的意圖呢我覺得這個事情我會比較把它當成一個個案來看待那其實它也不是因為越界的關係因為在對岸的角度來講台灣的漁民沒有越界的問題\n594687\t594947\t所以問題在這裡,這樣子。\n615959\t633285\t所以我還是希望副主委你現在身為行政官員已經不是民意代表了希望你專責海峽兩岸事務的主管機關往後你還是要稍微謹言慎行對這種不要引起大家不必要的誤會而且國人就開始緊張起來了也很害怕兩岸是不是會戰爭是不是會打起來\n635566\t639748\t還有希望陸委會能夠發揮最大的政治上面的智慧在不升高兩岸情勢下和平的對話的情況下盡早快點把我們的漁民帶回來因為我們從2月開始大陸漁船翻船到現在到大紀滿88號的事件其實這個都在反映兩岸既有的事物啊但是\n655055\t656676\t接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請鄭振淺鄭振淺\n","txt":"主席好 請調查局局長請陳局長主席好 委員好\n局長好近年來中共對台灣的認知作戰的樣態還有手段和密度都大幅的提升企圖藉引導性的虛假的訊息企圖影響台灣人對國安的情勢的認知甚至企圖會迫害台灣內部的團結所以這也是調查局今年成立認知作戰研究中心的原因嗎是\n那說到認知作戰的話本席就是有一個實際最近我們花蓮群組上面流傳的假消息的影片的案例近期我們花蓮很多LINE的群組上面突然就收到了一支影片這個影片描述了中共與我國的軍機如何在我們花蓮東部的附近的空域上面對峙最後國軍戰機遭到包圍後又驅趕\n可是這個影片錯誤擺出顯示是中共認知作戰的虛假消息但是因為當天也正好有中共的軍機來騷擾所以我們地方服務處的同仁馬上就很緊張在問這是不是真的有這一回事呢還好我們就馬上請國會的辦公室同仁快點協助的查證後面發現這支影片其實是錯誤擺出包括發生的時間不對還有發生的地點有問題還有戰機編隊飛行的架數也不對\n就連配音大陸的口音的影片也對不起來因此我們立即就判斷這影片應該是虛假的訊息可能是認知作戰的手法所以馬上動用所有的方法去澄清呼籲花蓮的鄉親不要再轉傳這個影片但是這樣真的讓我們覺得是蠻無助的\n因為這種假訊息出來的時候民眾沒有辦法去判斷這個影片的真偽然後政府機關在澄清訊息上又常常漏網之魚所以我們常常只能用人工回傳訊息快點幫忙澄清那本席想要請教一下局長為了應對這種虛假的訊息調查局除了前端的學術的研究之外目前還有哪些手段可以讓民眾及時查證訊息的呢\n是,謝謝委員那個委員剛提到的這一則其實這一則是一個很舊的假訊息那在今年又重新再把它拿出來去傳散那也謝謝委員在第一時間您的團隊就來協助來澄清那民眾如果接到這一類的訊息其實我們其實目前有很多的這個\n類似像事實查核中心、美育儀等等的這些可以第一時間讓我們能夠初步的去了解看看這一則訊息是不是之前已經出現過的一個假的訊息然後這一則訊息在網路上普遍的回應的狀況是怎麼樣可以讓我們第一時間初步來判斷這個訊息的真偽那在調查局的部分我們其實認知戰研究中心目前也是在\n剛開始成立的一個初期我們慢慢的盡量希望能夠\n點點滴滴的去堆積我們的實戰的經驗那目前除了我們對於認知訊息的研究以外我們也希望能夠在應處的部分能夠縮短那個時效能夠在最短時間內能夠確定這個是一個假的訊息然後發佈澄清的資訊給民眾那不過這種假訊息因為中國對台灣的這種認知戰\n的攻擊作戰,其實是一個複合性的作戰,量其實非常非常的大,尤其在選舉的期間,這個非常非常的大。我們其實希望能夠建構我們的國人基本上要有一個比較強的一個嗜毒的能力,這個是一個比較根本的一個有效\n但是我除了看LINE可以即時的查證因為這個證人會造成大家恐慌其實都需要政府等待政府的澄清就是說萬一政府沒有主動澄清那民眾不是都傻傻的被這些假訊息欺騙了而且大家甚至還會轉傳然後北市想要提醒一下局長剛才說的政府的主動澄清還有一些就是政府通常會去抓一些流量比較高的比較不實的訊息但是流量不高的那種密集發送的訊息就會變成了一個漏網之魚\n可是如果民眾查核的時間查核的管道又不多的話民眾就會很難查核這個是真偽是真的還是假的呢這樣的話就會造成民眾的恐慌還有誤判像剛才我說的那個所以那個在我們花蓮群組上瘋傳不實的影片其實6月28就開始傳了但是事實上查核中心去三天之後7月1號才開始澄清這個訊息其實這個時候都已經我們花蓮人都已經快嚇死了\n所以對於反制虛假的訊息的認知作戰我想說是不是有很多民眾都查證的手段比較有限所以就以LINE的訊息查證來說其實目前只能用訊息還有文字連結跟文字型的梗圖幾個方式影片就沒有辦法那請問調查局是不是可以回去研議看看要如何讓民眾可以透過上傳的影片來查證這種真偽然後而且有很多群組上流傳的虛假的影片大部分都是影片的形式\n請副主委\n副主委好賴清德總統在520就職演說上談到了中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬此外賴總統也是在7月1號中研院的晚宴中第五度提到這樣的說法\n但同一天副主委你在接受廣播節目的時候你說除了憲法在其他法律制度我們一切的做法都是以對方當國家要叫兩岸或是中華民國或中華民國共和國都好實質上是兩個國家後來主持人也在總結的時候問到憲法兩岸實質兩國\n然後那時候你也是同意的那我想要請教副主委一下你覺得你自己的說法有沒有超抑了賴總統的說法呢還是畢竟兩岸關係的用語是非常小心謹慎的而你自己又代表政府的政務官那你身為陸委會的副主委本席希望你在國會殿堂上可能要說清楚不要讓台灣的民眾還是北京當局有誤會還有你認為兩岸互不隸屬與兩國互不隸屬有沒有什麼不同呢\n還有因為入委會是按照兩岸人民關係條例所設置的所以不過既然你是覺得兩岸實質是兩國這種話那請問是不是表示說如今你自己自己不是入委會首長官員的前提下你個人是贊成將入委會納入外交部呢?\n報告委員我那天是在上廣播節目所以就是等於算是很多算是用聊天的方式但是媒體會去脈絡化的把我一句話給擷取出來所以我覺得這個有點不是很精確那我必須說那天是談到說\n例如說臺灣跟大陸的關係例如說談到我們的健保資格的問題那我們的大法官相關的解釋也有很明確說就是健保只有這個有中華民國\n所以你覺得那天有沒有說錯還是覺得是大家希望把你擷取錯誤呢我覺得是有點去脈絡化去擷取我的說法這樣子\n好那我接下來再請問你一個問題就是說前天我們大進滿88號漁船被中國海警船帶走海巡署在隔天已經有說明了這艘漁船是在大陸公告5到8月的時候海洋伏計休漁期跑到大陸臨海內去越界捕撈那請問一下副主委現在大陸那邊交涉由陸委會跟漁業署負責是嗎\n請問什麼時候可以放人放船?他們家人都是非常的心急,大家都在等待。\n我應該這樣講就是說因為他這個處罰的範圍其實是有點大根據他們自己的法律處罰的範圍是有點大他最嚴可以處罰到三年以下的有期徒刑但是最輕可以到法狂我現在就問說什麼時候可以放人像你們現在溝通的情況是怎麼樣應該是說他們現在還沒決定\n所以那你現在判斷這次陸委會判斷這次大進滿88號漁船被帶走是只是對於我們的漁民簡單的漁船越界捕撈的事件還是有一些政治上面的意圖呢我覺得這個事情我會比較把它當成一個個案來看待那其實它也不是因為越界的關係因為在對岸的角度來講台灣的漁民沒有越界的問題\n所以問題在這裡,這樣子。\n所以我還是希望副主委你現在身為行政官員已經不是民意代表了希望你專責海峽兩岸事務的主管機關往後你還是要稍微謹言慎行對這種不要引起大家不必要的誤會而且國人就開始緊張起來了也很害怕兩岸是不是會戰爭是不是會打起來\n還有希望陸委會能夠發揮最大的政治上面的智慧在不升高兩岸情勢下和平的對話的情況下盡早快點把我們的漁民帶回來因為我們從2月開始大陸漁船翻船到現在到大紀滿88號的事件其實這個都在反映兩岸既有的事物啊但是\n接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請鄭振淺鄭振淺\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.040 --> 00:09.405\n主席好請調查局局長請陳局長主席好委員好\n\n00:25.630 --> 00:48.022\n局長好近年來中共對台灣的認知作戰的樣態還有手段和密度都大幅的提升企圖藉引導性的虛假的訊息企圖影響台灣人對國安的情勢的認知甚至企圖會迫害台灣內部的團結所以這也是調查局今年成立認知作戰研究中心的原因嗎是\n\n00:49.683 --> 01:12.969\n那說到認知作戰的話本席就是有一個實際最近我們花蓮群組上面流傳的假消息的影片的案例近期我們花蓮很多LINE的群組上面突然就收到了一支影片這個影片描述了中共與我國的軍機如何在我們花蓮東部的附近的空域上面對峙最後國軍戰機遭到包圍後又驅趕\n\n01:14.369 --> 01:18.931\n可是這個影片錯誤擺出顯示是中共認知作戰的虛假消息但是因為當天也正好有中共的軍機來騷擾所以我們地方服務處的同仁馬上就很緊張在問這是不是真的有這一回事呢還好我們就馬上請國會的辦公室同仁快點協助的查證後面發現這支影片其實是錯誤擺出包括發生的時間不對還有發生的地點有問題還有戰機編隊飛行的架數也不對\n\n01:44.179 --> 01:52.606\n就連配音大陸的口音的影片也對不起來因此我們立即就判斷這影片應該是虛假的訊息可能是認知作戰的手法所以馬上動用所有的方法去澄清呼籲花蓮的鄉親不要再轉傳這個影片但是這樣真的讓我們覺得是蠻無助的\n\n02:03.655 --> 02:28.415\n因為這種假訊息出來的時候民眾沒有辦法去判斷這個影片的真偽然後政府機關在澄清訊息上又常常漏網之魚所以我們常常只能用人工回傳訊息快點幫忙澄清那本席想要請教一下局長為了應對這種虛假的訊息調查局除了前端的學術的研究之外目前還有哪些手段可以讓民眾及時查證訊息的呢\n\n02:31.456 --> 02:52.144\n是,謝謝委員那個委員剛提到的這一則其實這一則是一個很舊的假訊息那在今年又重新再把它拿出來去傳散那也謝謝委員在第一時間您的團隊就來協助來澄清那民眾如果接到這一類的訊息其實我們其實目前有很多的這個\n\n02:54.105 --> 03:19.358\n類似像事實查核中心、美育儀等等的這些可以第一時間讓我們能夠初步的去了解看看這一則訊息是不是之前已經出現過的一個假的訊息然後這一則訊息在網路上普遍的回應的狀況是怎麼樣可以讓我們第一時間初步來判斷這個訊息的真偽那在調查局的部分我們其實認知戰研究中心目前也是在\n\n03:21.421 --> 03:26.335\n剛開始成立的一個初期我們慢慢的盡量希望能夠\n\n03:27.952 --> 03:50.681\n點點滴滴的去堆積我們的實戰的經驗那目前除了我們對於認知訊息的研究以外我們也希望能夠在應處的部分能夠縮短那個時效能夠在最短時間內能夠確定這個是一個假的訊息然後發佈澄清的資訊給民眾那不過這種假訊息因為中國對台灣的這種認知戰\n\n03:52.762 --> 04:13.934\n的攻擊作戰,其實是一個複合性的作戰,量其實非常非常的大,尤其在選舉的期間,這個非常非常的大。我們其實希望能夠建構我們的國人基本上要有一個比較強的一個嗜毒的能力,這個是一個比較根本的一個有效\n\n04:14.594 --> 04:42.451\n但是我除了看LINE可以即時的查證因為這個證人會造成大家恐慌其實都需要政府等待政府的澄清就是說萬一政府沒有主動澄清那民眾不是都傻傻的被這些假訊息欺騙了而且大家甚至還會轉傳然後北市想要提醒一下局長剛才說的政府的主動澄清還有一些就是政府通常會去抓一些流量比較高的比較不實的訊息但是流量不高的那種密集發送的訊息就會變成了一個漏網之魚\n\n04:44.352 --> 04:48.113\n可是如果民眾查核的時間查核的管道又不多的話民眾就會很難查核這個是真偽是真的還是假的呢這樣的話就會造成民眾的恐慌還有誤判像剛才我說的那個所以那個在我們花蓮群組上瘋傳不實的影片其實6月28就開始傳了但是事實上查核中心去三天之後7月1號才開始澄清這個訊息其實這個時候都已經我們花蓮人都已經快嚇死了\n\n05:11.201 --> 05:19.303\n所以對於反制虛假的訊息的認知作戰我想說是不是有很多民眾都查證的手段比較有限所以就以LINE的訊息查證來說其實目前只能用訊息還有文字連結跟文字型的梗圖幾個方式影片就沒有辦法那請問調查局是不是可以回去研議看看要如何讓民眾可以透過上傳的影片來查證這種真偽然後而且有很多群組上流傳的虛假的影片大部分都是影片的形式\n\n05:40.268 --> 05:41.149\n請副主委\n\n06:13.317 --> 06:28.084\n副主委好賴清德總統在520就職演說上談到了中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬此外賴總統也是在7月1號中研院的晚宴中第五度提到這樣的說法\n\n06:28.624 --> 06:42.239\n但同一天副主委你在接受廣播節目的時候你說除了憲法在其他法律制度我們一切的做法都是以對方當國家要叫兩岸或是中華民國或中華民國共和國都好實質上是兩個國家後來主持人也在總結的時候問到憲法兩岸實質兩國\n\n06:47.665 --> 06:53.048\n然後那時候你也是同意的那我想要請教副主委一下你覺得你自己的說法有沒有超抑了賴總統的說法呢還是畢竟兩岸關係的用語是非常小心謹慎的而你自己又代表政府的政務官那你身為陸委會的副主委本席希望你在國會殿堂上可能要說清楚不要讓台灣的民眾還是北京當局有誤會還有你認為兩岸互不隸屬與兩國互不隸屬有沒有什麼不同呢\n\n07:15.720 --> 07:33.957\n還有因為入委會是按照兩岸人民關係條例所設置的所以不過既然你是覺得兩岸實質是兩國這種話那請問是不是表示說如今你自己自己不是入委會首長官員的前提下你個人是贊成將入委會納入外交部呢?\n\n07:35.743 --> 07:54.421\n報告委員我那天是在上廣播節目所以就是等於算是很多算是用聊天的方式但是媒體會去脈絡化的把我一句話給擷取出來所以我覺得這個有點不是很精確那我必須說那天是談到說\n\n07:56.443 --> 08:10.298\n例如說臺灣跟大陸的關係例如說談到我們的健保資格的問題那我們的大法官相關的解釋也有很明確說就是健保只有這個有中華民國\n\n08:11.559 --> 08:14.843\n所以你覺得那天有沒有說錯還是覺得是大家希望把你擷取錯誤呢我覺得是有點去脈絡化去擷取我的說法這樣子\n\n08:28.868 --> 08:49.670\n好那我接下來再請問你一個問題就是說前天我們大進滿88號漁船被中國海警船帶走海巡署在隔天已經有說明了這艘漁船是在大陸公告5到8月的時候海洋伏計休漁期跑到大陸臨海內去越界捕撈那請問一下副主委現在大陸那邊交涉由陸委會跟漁業署負責是嗎\n\n08:54.317 --> 08:58.704\n請問什麼時候可以放人放船?他們家人都是非常的心急,大家都在等待。\n\n08:59.778 --> 09:21.209\n我應該這樣講就是說因為他這個處罰的範圍其實是有點大根據他們自己的法律處罰的範圍是有點大他最嚴可以處罰到三年以下的有期徒刑但是最輕可以到法狂我現在就問說什麼時候可以放人像你們現在溝通的情況是怎麼樣應該是說他們現在還沒決定\n\n09:24.252 --> 09:52.946\n所以那你現在判斷這次陸委會判斷這次大進滿88號漁船被帶走是只是對於我們的漁民簡單的漁船越界捕撈的事件還是有一些政治上面的意圖呢我覺得這個事情我會比較把它當成一個個案來看待那其實它也不是因為越界的關係因為在對岸的角度來講台灣的漁民沒有越界的問題\n\n09:54.687 --> 09:54.947\n所以問題在這裡,這樣子。\n\n10:15.959 --> 10:33.285\n所以我還是希望副主委你現在身為行政官員已經不是民意代表了希望你專責海峽兩岸事務的主管機關往後你還是要稍微謹言慎行對這種不要引起大家不必要的誤會而且國人就開始緊張起來了也很害怕兩岸是不是會戰爭是不是會打起來\n\n10:35.566 --> 10:39.748\n還有希望陸委會能夠發揮最大的政治上面的智慧在不升高兩岸情勢下和平的對話的情況下盡早快點把我們的漁民帶回來因為我們從2月開始大陸漁船翻船到現在到大紀滿88號的事件其實這個都在反映兩岸既有的事物啊但是\n\n10:55.055 --> 10:56.676\n接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請鄭振淺鄭振淺\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.04,"end":9.405,"text":"主席好 請調查局局長請陳局長主席好 委員好"},{"start":25.63,"end":48.022,"text":"局長好近年來中共對台灣的認知作戰的樣態還有手段和密度都大幅的提升企圖藉引導性的虛假的訊息企圖影響台灣人對國安的情勢的認知甚至企圖會迫害台灣內部的團結所以這也是調查局今年成立認知作戰研究中心的原因嗎是"},{"start":49.683,"end":72.969,"text":"那說到認知作戰的話本席就是有一個實際最近我們花蓮群組上面流傳的假消息的影片的案例近期我們花蓮很多LINE的群組上面突然就收到了一支影片這個影片描述了中共與我國的軍機如何在我們花蓮東部的附近的空域上面對峙最後國軍戰機遭到包圍後又驅趕"},{"start":74.369,"end":78.931,"text":"可是這個影片錯誤擺出顯示是中共認知作戰的虛假消息但是因為當天也正好有中共的軍機來騷擾所以我們地方服務處的同仁馬上就很緊張在問這是不是真的有這一回事呢還好我們就馬上請國會的辦公室同仁快點協助的查證後面發現這支影片其實是錯誤擺出包括發生的時間不對還有發生的地點有問題還有戰機編隊飛行的架數也不對"},{"start":104.179,"end":112.606,"text":"就連配音大陸的口音的影片也對不起來因此我們立即就判斷這影片應該是虛假的訊息可能是認知作戰的手法所以馬上動用所有的方法去澄清呼籲花蓮的鄉親不要再轉傳這個影片但是這樣真的讓我們覺得是蠻無助的"},{"start":123.655,"end":148.415,"text":"因為這種假訊息出來的時候民眾沒有辦法去判斷這個影片的真偽然後政府機關在澄清訊息上又常常漏網之魚所以我們常常只能用人工回傳訊息快點幫忙澄清那本席想要請教一下局長為了應對這種虛假的訊息調查局除了前端的學術的研究之外目前還有哪些手段可以讓民眾及時查證訊息的呢"},{"start":151.456,"end":172.144,"text":"是,謝謝委員那個委員剛提到的這一則其實這一則是一個很舊的假訊息那在今年又重新再把它拿出來去傳散那也謝謝委員在第一時間您的團隊就來協助來澄清那民眾如果接到這一類的訊息其實我們其實目前有很多的這個"},{"start":174.105,"end":199.358,"text":"類似像事實查核中心、美育儀等等的這些可以第一時間讓我們能夠初步的去了解看看這一則訊息是不是之前已經出現過的一個假的訊息然後這一則訊息在網路上普遍的回應的狀況是怎麼樣可以讓我們第一時間初步來判斷這個訊息的真偽那在調查局的部分我們其實認知戰研究中心目前也是在"},{"start":201.421,"end":206.335,"text":"剛開始成立的一個初期我們慢慢的盡量希望能夠"},{"start":207.952,"end":230.681,"text":"點點滴滴的去堆積我們的實戰的經驗那目前除了我們對於認知訊息的研究以外我們也希望能夠在應處的部分能夠縮短那個時效能夠在最短時間內能夠確定這個是一個假的訊息然後發佈澄清的資訊給民眾那不過這種假訊息因為中國對台灣的這種認知戰"},{"start":232.762,"end":253.934,"text":"的攻擊作戰,其實是一個複合性的作戰,量其實非常非常的大,尤其在選舉的期間,這個非常非常的大。我們其實希望能夠建構我們的國人基本上要有一個比較強的一個嗜毒的能力,這個是一個比較根本的一個有效"},{"start":254.594,"end":282.451,"text":"但是我除了看LINE可以即時的查證因為這個證人會造成大家恐慌其實都需要政府等待政府的澄清就是說萬一政府沒有主動澄清那民眾不是都傻傻的被這些假訊息欺騙了而且大家甚至還會轉傳然後北市想要提醒一下局長剛才說的政府的主動澄清還有一些就是政府通常會去抓一些流量比較高的比較不實的訊息但是流量不高的那種密集發送的訊息就會變成了一個漏網之魚"},{"start":284.352,"end":288.113,"text":"可是如果民眾查核的時間查核的管道又不多的話民眾就會很難查核這個是真偽是真的還是假的呢這樣的話就會造成民眾的恐慌還有誤判像剛才我說的那個所以那個在我們花蓮群組上瘋傳不實的影片其實6月28就開始傳了但是事實上查核中心去三天之後7月1號才開始澄清這個訊息其實這個時候都已經我們花蓮人都已經快嚇死了"},{"start":311.201,"end":319.303,"text":"所以對於反制虛假的訊息的認知作戰我想說是不是有很多民眾都查證的手段比較有限所以就以LINE的訊息查證來說其實目前只能用訊息還有文字連結跟文字型的梗圖幾個方式影片就沒有辦法那請問調查局是不是可以回去研議看看要如何讓民眾可以透過上傳的影片來查證這種真偽然後而且有很多群組上流傳的虛假的影片大部分都是影片的形式"},{"start":340.268,"end":341.149,"text":"請副主委"},{"start":373.317,"end":388.084,"text":"副主委好賴清德總統在520就職演說上談到了中華民國與中華人民共和國互不隸屬此外賴總統也是在7月1號中研院的晚宴中第五度提到這樣的說法"},{"start":388.624,"end":402.239,"text":"但同一天副主委你在接受廣播節目的時候你說除了憲法在其他法律制度我們一切的做法都是以對方當國家要叫兩岸或是中華民國或中華民國共和國都好實質上是兩個國家後來主持人也在總結的時候問到憲法兩岸實質兩國"},{"start":407.665,"end":413.048,"text":"然後那時候你也是同意的那我想要請教副主委一下你覺得你自己的說法有沒有超抑了賴總統的說法呢還是畢竟兩岸關係的用語是非常小心謹慎的而你自己又代表政府的政務官那你身為陸委會的副主委本席希望你在國會殿堂上可能要說清楚不要讓台灣的民眾還是北京當局有誤會還有你認為兩岸互不隸屬與兩國互不隸屬有沒有什麼不同呢"},{"start":435.72,"end":453.957,"text":"還有因為入委會是按照兩岸人民關係條例所設置的所以不過既然你是覺得兩岸實質是兩國這種話那請問是不是表示說如今你自己自己不是入委會首長官員的前提下你個人是贊成將入委會納入外交部呢?"},{"start":455.743,"end":474.421,"text":"報告委員我那天是在上廣播節目所以就是等於算是很多算是用聊天的方式但是媒體會去脈絡化的把我一句話給擷取出來所以我覺得這個有點不是很精確那我必須說那天是談到說"},{"start":476.443,"end":490.298,"text":"例如說臺灣跟大陸的關係例如說談到我們的健保資格的問題那我們的大法官相關的解釋也有很明確說就是健保只有這個有中華民國"},{"start":491.559,"end":494.843,"text":"所以你覺得那天有沒有說錯還是覺得是大家希望把你擷取錯誤呢我覺得是有點去脈絡化去擷取我的說法這樣子"},{"start":508.868,"end":529.67,"text":"好那我接下來再請問你一個問題就是說前天我們大進滿88號漁船被中國海警船帶走海巡署在隔天已經有說明了這艘漁船是在大陸公告5到8月的時候海洋伏計休漁期跑到大陸臨海內去越界捕撈那請問一下副主委現在大陸那邊交涉由陸委會跟漁業署負責是嗎"},{"start":534.317,"end":538.704,"text":"請問什麼時候可以放人放船?他們家人都是非常的心急,大家都在等待。"},{"start":539.778,"end":561.209,"text":"我應該這樣講就是說因為他這個處罰的範圍其實是有點大根據他們自己的法律處罰的範圍是有點大他最嚴可以處罰到三年以下的有期徒刑但是最輕可以到法狂我現在就問說什麼時候可以放人像你們現在溝通的情況是怎麼樣應該是說他們現在還沒決定"},{"start":564.252,"end":592.946,"text":"所以那你現在判斷這次陸委會判斷這次大進滿88號漁船被帶走是只是對於我們的漁民簡單的漁船越界捕撈的事件還是有一些政治上面的意圖呢我覺得這個事情我會比較把它當成一個個案來看待那其實它也不是因為越界的關係因為在對岸的角度來講台灣的漁民沒有越界的問題"},{"start":594.687,"end":594.947,"text":"所以問題在這裡,這樣子。"},{"start":615.959,"end":633.285,"text":"所以我還是希望副主委你現在身為行政官員已經不是民意代表了希望你專責海峽兩岸事務的主管機關往後你還是要稍微謹言慎行對這種不要引起大家不必要的誤會而且國人就開始緊張起來了也很害怕兩岸是不是會戰爭是不是會打起來"},{"start":635.566,"end":639.748,"text":"還有希望陸委會能夠發揮最大的政治上面的智慧在不升高兩岸情勢下和平的對話的情況下盡早快點把我們的漁民帶回來因為我們從2月開始大陸漁船翻船到現在到大紀滿88號的事件其實這個都在反映兩岸既有的事物啊但是"},{"start":655.055,"end":656.676,"text":"接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請鄭振淺鄭振淺"}]}}}}