{"id":154576,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154576","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/21d04b5a781cb6182caa458835705ecaa09fb1100d58f4be0e42658b4167efd568562666524dd9f25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"11:10:43 - 11:26:31","影片長度":"00:15:48","會議時間":"2024-07-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、7月5日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月9日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-09","start_time":"2024-07-09T11:10:43+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-09T11:26:31+08:00","duration":948,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議","id":"院會-11-1-21","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":574,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（11時10分）謝謝主席。主席，我們先請院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：卓院長好。院長，今天首先想跟院長討論少子女化的問題，我們都知道說，目前少子女化應該是國安問題，我想跟院長確認一下，我們現在新內閣有沒有把少子女化問題視為國安問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：從之前的內閣一直到現在，都把這個當作國家很重要的問題來做解決。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝院長。大家看一下最近的數據──近十年出生人數跟死亡人數的比較，其中近四年的出生率低於死亡率，坊間已經稱這叫生不如死的狀態，對於國人為什麼不願意生小孩，我想這有很多面向可以探討，但今天想要討論的是，提升女性勞動參與率跟外籍家庭幫傭放寬，還有家庭照顧假放寬等這些問題來就教一下我們院長，先從女性勞參率的部分來談，據去年國發會的統計，女性勞參率在30歲後逐年的下滑，整體勞參率就亞洲各國來看的話，日本、韓國的女性勞動參與率分別是53.5%跟53.3%，還是高於臺灣的50%；同為亞洲國家的新加坡也有64%；北歐國家瑞典是高達七成一，我想女性勞參率從30歲一路下降，就我的觀察，很大一部分原因是因為婚育的關係，婚育之後離開職場的女性，不管是在我們身邊也好，統計資料看起來也好，有很多女性為了家庭可能就會犧牲自己的工作，所以政府一直也希望能夠提高女性勞動參與率，我想這個是一個方向，但是到底怎麼做，我覺得這是政府需要來檢討的部分。","為什麼女性勞動參與率最近大家會比較關注呢？我想就從我們大專校院畢業生人數來看，我國女性受高等教育的比例，從數據上看起來其實跟男性不相上下，但在事實上還有現實面上，真的有很多女性因為家庭被迫放棄工作，不管是在家照顧幼兒也好，甚至照顧長輩，這些我想都是可以透過所謂聘請家庭幫傭來協助，讓真正有受過高等教育女性，有機會能夠回到職場去奉獻社會，而不是被綁在我們的家裡面，進行這些繁重的體力跟勞務。","所以今天第一個問題想討論的是，放寬臺灣家庭聘用外籍家庭幫傭的限制，我剛剛一直提到，這些女性不斷地被綁在家庭，而我的數據來自於哪裡？數據來自衛福部111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查報告，其中育有6歲以下學齡前兒童家庭的父母親，62%是雙薪家庭，即父母均有工作的家庭比例是61.7%，只有父親有工作的占32.4%，只有母親有工作是4.4%；如果依照工時來觀察，父親需要在週末工作的占44.6%，高於母親的30.2%，整體來講，平均工作時數，父親也是高於母親；從學齡前兒童父母親申請育兒留職停薪的狀況來看，母親申請育兒留停的比例是34%，爸爸只有6.4%，從數據很明顯看到多數時候都是媽媽在申請留停，平均申請留停的月數，媽媽是8.8個月，爸爸平均只有5.9個月；再看下一個數據，這是一個有趣的觀察，父母親沒有申請留職停薪的原因，媽媽的原因是因為這小孩已經有其他人的照顧了，占了37.7%，當時沒有在工作，占了31.5%；至於爸爸，爸爸的原因是有他人照顧，占51.1%；改由配偶申請，通常是媽媽，占26.8%，所以爸爸的原因有一部分是因為媽媽申請完了。如果從實際的照顧安排來看，0至3歲、未滿3歲部分，由父母親自己照顧的比例是42.5%；32.6%送到托嬰或各機構。但如果過了3歲，在幼稚園部分，就讀幼兒園比例高達91%，自己照顧的比例驟降到5.6%，這是衛福部的統計。所以0至3歲、3到6歲有一個很奇怪的節點：0至3歲、3到6歲送到外面照顧從32.6%增加到91.3%，增加六成，我合先敘明，並將數據跟院長、部長分享。為什麼我今天要特別提到放寬家庭幫傭機制？現代社會多數都是雙薪家庭，照顧小孩這件事情理論上是由父母雙親一起共同為之；但實務上，從我們剛剛看到的數據可知，很多時候變成媽媽要犧牲工作，回到家庭顧小孩，顧他的基本生理需求，陪伴他，這些工作很多時候就變成媽媽的責任。本席在坊間也聽到很多年輕就業女性的聲音，他們的確希望在家帶小孩時能有幫手，不知道院長認不認同在家帶小孩要有幫手的概念？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，如果能夠提供好的家庭帶小孩的環境的話，讓女性能夠再度參與勞動市場，對社會的生產力絕對是有幫助的。"],["黃委員健豪：再來，為什麼今天特別提到這點？因為實際上現在臺灣很多人聘用的是家庭看護工，依照巴氏量表規定，家庭看護工就是要來做家庭看護的工作。但實際上、社會的現實面上，很多人讓家庭看護工同時做了房舍清理、食物烹調、家庭成員起居照料，以及其他家事服務有關的工作。臺灣在面對這件事情上，在家事移工上，把家庭看護工跟家庭幫傭的工作混淆在一起，院長，你知不知道現實有這個狀態？"],["卓院長榮泰：社會上應該有存在這種狀態。"],["黃委員健豪：有存在這種狀態嘛！所以本席今天提出來，就是希望臺灣的法律不要這麼偽善，不要上有政策，下有對策。以過去所發生的實況來說，名義上請的明明是家庭看護工，但他來臺灣後卻變成家庭幫傭。當然，從事家庭幫傭如果被抓到的話會被罰錢的，按照就業服務法規定會有懲罰機制，但實際上就是有這個需求。所以我想問一下，目前行政院或勞動部願不願意往放寬家庭幫傭的方向來思考？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前思考的方式，我想請勞動部先說明。"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，關於家庭幫傭的開放，過去在陳院長任內確實有討論過，主要是國內的保母團體很有顧慮，認為開放對幼兒成長未必好，也可能會衝擊國內保母的就業機會，所以這確實是一個需要考慮的問題。但是報告委員，我們現在已經開始規劃多元陪伴服務方案，這是我們最新嘗試的一個有彈性的、由NGO團體跟仲介合作聘請移工，讓移工受更優化的勞動條件保障，同時是彈性服務的，可以派往家庭照顧，不論顧老或顧小，這是一個可以用來取代家庭幫傭，一個還不錯的、新的嘗試的方法，這點我們正在規劃當中，希望能很快公布，並向貴院報告。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝部長。我也跟院長、部長分享，現在很多年輕的雙薪家庭所遇到的問題是，包含部長提到的保母問題在內，很多孩子從幼稚園下課或從保母家接回來之後，家長不管是爸爸或媽媽，兩人回到家裡還要面臨有很大量的家務要處理。處理家務時，同時他也要陪伴小孩，陪伴小孩當然有很多層次的問題啦，不管是陪伴他快樂的閱讀也好，還是說把他基本的生活起居照顧好也好，這個都是他下班之後要回來的這一段。所以我們今天提出來的問題，希望能夠解決的是針對少子化問題，希望讓這些家庭能夠在就業之外，就是我在上班、下班之後，我把小孩接回來之後，同時家裡面能有一個幫手去處理其他的雜務。","其實還有一個問題，因為現階段我們臺灣的法律，本國人跟外國人的規範是不一樣的嘛，部長應該很清楚，院長也應該很清楚。外國人在臺灣，高薪或是白領階級的，薪水達到一定程度的，我們是看他的薪資結構來決定他能不能請所謂的家庭幫傭，但對本國人的限制卻有很多條件，我覺得很多家庭最大的反映是說，現階段的規定是要6歲以下3個，我才能夠請幫傭，但外國人不用，外國人是只要薪資達到一定水準，他的生活條件達到一定水準，就能夠請幫傭，但政府對本國人的限制是你要生6歲以下且生3個，才能請幫傭。我想問一下，對於實務上的部分，院長、部長，你們覺得在臺灣現階段情況下、家庭結構下，有多少家庭是可以生3個6歲以下的小孩？很難吧，而且除了難達到之外，就算我今年達到了，我小孩明年7歲之後怎麼辦？就沒有了喔，但是6歲跟7歲，難道不需要有人照顧嗎？我想這不是現實面，尤其就算多請一個幫傭，不管是本國籍或外國籍，這個法令、這個規定應該要去檢討，我就算多請一個人，那個來幫忙的人，他一次要顧3個6歲以下的，我想一般人，各位、在座各位，有的當阿公阿嬤了，有的當過爸爸媽媽，一定也受不了這件事情，是吧？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在有一些建議，希望能夠彈性地來計算這種加權的分數，比方說家裡如果有獨居的老人，或是說年紀比較高的長者，或是兒童本身他有特別需要照顧的情況底下，我想的確有這些建議，而這些建議現在研議的方向怎麼樣，跟外界的討論跟交換意見到底怎麼樣，我請勞動部來說明一下。"],["何部長佩珊：是，跟委員報告，我們也有請我們的相關部門正在研究這方面點數的放寬，這個我們會來處理。"],["黃委員健豪：所以這個會期來不及了？這個要多久？應該說這個會期來不及，但這個檢討要多久？"],["何部長佩珊：我們會儘快來處理，我們會儘快來處理。"],["黃委員健豪：儘快，儘快多久？因為之前前部長也說會儘快處理啊，但是我想現在已經換部長了。"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，這個就還是必須進行社會溝通，我們要跟相關的利益方都有一些討論之後，我們會儘快來處理這件事情。"],["黃委員健豪：好，我還是拜託院長跟部長，在這個事件上面，應該還是要朝放寬的方向，讓市場自由競爭，讓民眾、讓這些所謂的家庭，有顧小孩的家庭或打算生小孩的家庭，讓他有選擇的權利，而不是把他限制在某些條件裡面，我想這個是面對少子化要拿出一個務實的態度。當然理論很美好啊！但是現實就是很無感嘛，坦白說，我也知道，相關保母團體或者是很多的團體會有意見，但是回到真正的有照顧小孩需求的家庭，我們提出來的具體問題，他就是要面臨到我每天下班之後，或是一定要有一個人在家裡面犧牲自己的工作來照顧小孩，我們照剛剛衛福部統計的數據來看，通常真正犧牲自己工作的那個人就是媽媽，我想這對臺灣的女性勞參率會有很大的影響，所以我們希望能夠降低這個情況，那就是提供更多的選項，讓女性有機會回到就業市場，我不知道院長和部長是不是認同這樣的觀點？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員這個建議，我個人、我本人也認為有這個需求，我們如何來增加這個彈性的計算，更多元的來選擇，這個部分我想下半年我們來做一個決定，好不好？"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝院長。這個議題結束，接下來，我們來討論，最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們臺灣溫室氣體的部分，臺灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大都是屬於發電業，上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會，目前也沒有正確的一個結論，當然原因是什麼，原因就是，從我們統計的數字來看，如果能源部門的二氧化碳直接排放量占70%，但是現在的算法是把它算成間接排放，因為你賣出去之後，就算在消費者身上了，就賣給消費端了，所以這時候變成剩下14%。我想前一陣子環境部還甚至講說樹會造成空氣污染，大家都覺得那是因為你不敢拿碳排放高的發電業開刀，當然我也肯定你們現在把這個公告撤掉了，但是你從直接排放跟間接排放，從70%降到14%，把它轉嫁出去，我想原因是來自我們氣候變遷因應法第二十八條所謂的直接排放源跟間接排放源，還有提到間接排放源可以扣掉，我賣出去的不算，但是這有什麼問題？這會產生對業者來講、對民間業者來講、對這些製造業來講，我明明ESG做得很好，但是因為我的電我沒有得選啊！臺灣的發電結構就長這樣子，所以我必須去承擔這個成本，我不知道能夠把70%降到14%這個做法是環境部的意見還是經濟部的意見？部長。"],["彭部長啓明：這個是當時氣候法定義的結果，大多數的國家也這樣做，當然委員說得也對，有些國家是直接一起在算，但是我們那時候朝野協商訂的氣候變遷因應法就是照這樣的方式來處理。"],["黃委員健豪：我想因為你這樣做，對於後續以後在課徵碳費或者國外課徵碳稅的時候，對本國的產業會有很大的擔憂，我希望環境部能夠堅持你的立場，把前因後果講清楚，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝院長、部長。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員、謝謝院長。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽的是南投市婦女會的朋友，歡迎你們！","下一位我們請盧縣一委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-21","speakers":["江啟臣","王定宇","黃國昌","羅明才","吳琪銘","葉元之","邱若華","楊曜","羅智強","黃健豪","盧縣一","蘇清泉","林國成","李昆澤","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","林月琴","游顥","王正旭","林淑芬","涂權吉"],"page_start":93,"meetingDate":["2024-07-09"],"gazette_id":"1136601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136601_00005","1136601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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{\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 267.744, \"end\": 267.884, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 267.884, \"end\": 267.944, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 267.944, \"end\": 268.044, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 268.044, \"end\": 268.084, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 268.084, \"end\": 268.184, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 268.184, \"end\": 268.324, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 268.324, \"end\": 268.404, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 268.404, \"end\": 268.484, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"媽\"}, {\"word\": \"媽\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 268.484, \"end\": 268.644, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 268.644, \"end\": 268.825, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 268.825, \"end\": 269.025, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 269.025, \"end\": 269.305, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, 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\"好謝謝院長接下來這個議題結束我們來討論最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們台灣溫室氣體的部分我想台灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大這都是屬於發電業那我想上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會那我想目前也沒有正確的一個結論那當然原因是什麼原因就是因為我想從我們統計的數字來看如果\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 807.904, \"end\": 808.244, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 808.244, \"end\": 809.144, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 809.144, \"end\": 809.264, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 809.264, \"end\": 810.265, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"束\", \"start\": 810.265, \"end\": 810.405, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 810.405, \"end\": 810.845, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 810.845, \"end\": 811.125, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 811.125, \"end\": 811.345, \"score\": 0.818}, 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\"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 814.746, \"end\": 815.046, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 815.046, \"end\": 815.586, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"溫\"}, {\"word\": \"室\", \"start\": 815.586, \"end\": 815.926, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 815.926, \"end\": 816.126, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 816.126, \"end\": 816.346, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 816.346, \"end\": 816.627, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"九\", \"start\": 816.627, \"end\": 816.907, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 816.907, \"end\": 817.607, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 817.607, \"end\": 817.887, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 817.887, \"end\": 818.107, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 818.107, \"end\": 818.887, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 818.887, \"end\": 819.027, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 819.027, \"end\": 819.867, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 819.867, \"end\": 820.188, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 820.188, \"end\": 820.888, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 820.888, \"end\": 821.048, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 821.048, \"end\": 821.268, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 821.268, \"end\": 821.628, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"週\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 821.628, \"end\": 821.728, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 821.728, \"end\": 821.908, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 821.908, \"end\": 822.468, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 822.468, \"end\": 822.648, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 822.648, \"end\": 822.868, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"次\", 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\"start\": 826.189, \"end\": 826.569, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 826.569, \"end\": 826.669, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 826.669, \"end\": 827.61, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 827.61, \"end\": 827.87, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 827.87, \"end\": 828.69, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 828.69, \"end\": 828.81, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 828.81, \"end\": 828.93, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 828.93, \"end\": 829.05, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 829.05, \"end\": 829.55, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 829.55, \"end\": 829.65, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 829.65, \"end\": 829.75, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 829.75, \"end\": 829.89, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 829.89, \"end\": 830.01, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 830.01, \"end\": 830.19, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 830.19, \"end\": 830.31, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 830.31, \"end\": 831.471, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 831.471, \"end\": 833.031, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 833.031, \"end\": 833.311, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 833.311, \"end\": 833.571, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 833.571, \"end\": 834.772, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 834.772, \"end\": 834.992, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 834.992, \"end\": 835.012, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 836.394, \"end\": 857.638, \"text\": \"二氧,能源部門的二氧化碳排放量,直接排放量佔70%,但是現在的算法是把它算成進階排放,因為你賣給,賣出去之後就算消費者身上了,就賣給消費端了,所以這時候變成剩下14%,我想前陣子環境部還甚至講說,這個樹會造成空氣汙染,大家都覺得說那事業你不敢拿。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 836.394, \"end\": 836.534, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"氧\", \"start\": 836.534, \"end\": 836.855, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 836.855, \"end\": 836.995, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 836.995, \"end\": 837.195, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 837.195, \"end\": 837.455, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 837.455, \"end\": 837.555, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 837.555, \"end\": 837.655, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"氧\", \"start\": 837.655, \"end\": 837.856, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 837.856, \"end\": 838.056, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 838.056, \"end\": 838.236, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 838.236, \"end\": 838.436, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 838.436, \"end\": 838.576, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 838.576, \"end\": 839.838, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 839.838, \"end\": 839.978, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 839.978, \"end\": 840.138, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 840.138, \"end\": 840.298, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 840.298, \"end\": 840.418, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 840.418, \"end\": 842.301, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"佔\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 842.301, \"end\": 842.461, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 842.461, \"end\": 843.041, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 843.041, \"end\": 843.162, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 843.162, \"end\": 843.262, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 843.262, \"end\": 843.442, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 843.442, \"end\": 843.602, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 843.602, \"end\": 843.762, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 843.762, \"end\": 843.882, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 843.882, \"end\": 844.043, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 844.043, \"end\": 844.163, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 844.163, \"end\": 844.583, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 844.583, \"end\": 844.743, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 844.743, \"end\": 844.964, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 844.964, \"end\": 845.084, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 845.084, \"end\": 846.145, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"賣\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"賣\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 846.145, \"end\": 846.265, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 846.265, \"end\": 846.425, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 846.425, \"end\": 846.505, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 846.505, \"end\": 846.746, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 846.746, \"end\": 846.866, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 846.866, \"end\": 847.026, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 847.026, \"end\": 847.246, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 847.246, \"end\": 847.366, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 847.366, \"end\": 847.526, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 847.526, \"end\": 847.687, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 847.687, \"end\": 847.807, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 847.807, \"end\": 848.247, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"賣\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 848.247, \"end\": 848.528, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"端\", \"start\": 848.528, \"end\": 848.708, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 848.708, \"end\": 849.168, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 849.168, \"end\": 849.489, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 849.489, \"end\": 849.569, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 849.569, \"end\": 850.169, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 850.169, \"end\": 850.55, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"剩\", \"start\": 850.55, \"end\": 850.69, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 850.69, \"end\": 851.771, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 851.771, \"end\": 851.851, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 851.851, \"end\": 852.011, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 852.011, \"end\": 852.212, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"陣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 852.212, \"end\": 852.392, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 852.392, \"end\": 852.552, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 852.552, \"end\": 852.832, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 852.832, \"end\": 853.012, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 853.012, \"end\": 855.155, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"樹\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 855.155, \"end\": 855.275, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 855.275, \"end\": 855.415, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 855.415, \"end\": 855.836, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"汙\"}, {\"word\": \"染\", \"start\": 855.836, \"end\": 856.356, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 856.356, \"end\": 856.476, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 856.476, \"end\": 856.616, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 856.616, \"end\": 856.737, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 856.737, \"end\": 856.997, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 856.997, \"end\": 857.137, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 857.137, \"end\": 857.317, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 857.317, \"end\": 857.417, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 857.417, \"end\": 857.497, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"敢\", \"start\": 857.497, \"end\": 857.618, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 857.618, \"end\": 857.638, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 858.318, \"end\": 882.654, \"text\": \"拜訪高的這個發電開刀啊當然我也是肯定說你們現在把這個這個公告撤掉了但是你從這個直接排放跟間接排放從70%交14%把它轉嫁出去我想這是原因是來自我們氣候變遷應用法裡面28條所謂的直接排放員跟間接排放員那還有提到說這個可以扣掉間接排放員可以扣掉我賣出去之後不算但是這有什麼問題這會產生對業者來講對民間業者來講對這些製造業來講\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 858.318, \"end\": 858.739, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 858.739, \"end\": 858.939, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 858.939, \"end\": 860.099, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"刀\", \"start\": 860.099, \"end\": 860.26, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 860.26, \"end\": 860.78, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 860.78, \"end\": 860.94, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 860.94, \"end\": 861.06, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 861.06, \"end\": 861.14, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 861.14, \"end\": 861.22, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"肯\", \"start\": 861.22, \"end\": 861.36, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 861.36, \"end\": 861.6, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 861.6, \"end\": 861.761, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 861.761, \"end\": 861.941, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 861.941, \"end\": 862.901, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 862.901, \"end\": 863.021, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 863.021, \"end\": 863.221, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"撤\", \"start\": 863.221, \"end\": 863.382, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 863.382, \"end\": 863.522, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 863.522, \"end\": 863.962, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 863.962, \"end\": 864.082, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 864.082, \"end\": 864.222, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 864.222, \"end\": 865.403, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 865.403, \"end\": 865.543, \"score\": 0.94}, 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\"end\": 945.377, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 945.377, \"end\": 945.618, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 945.618, \"end\": 945.878, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 945.878, \"end\": 946.639, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"婦\"}, {\"word\": \"女\", \"start\": 946.639, \"end\": 946.879, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 946.879, \"end\": 947.0, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"朋\", \"start\": 947.0, \"end\": 947.18, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"友\", \"start\": 947.18, \"end\": 947.2, \"score\": 0.996}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,366 --> 00:00:06,908\n好,謝謝主席。主席我們先請院長。好,請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。\n\n2\n00:00:17,376 --> 00:00:31,297\n委員長好。院長今天呢想要先跟院長來討論首先討論這個少子女化的問題啊。我們都知道說目前少子女化應該是國安問題。我想確認一下院長我們現在新內閣有沒有把少子女化的問題視為國安問題。\n\n3\n00:00:32,964 --> 00:00:56,130\n一直是這從之前的內閣到現在都把這個當作很重要的國家重要問題來做解決。謝謝院長我想大家看到這個最近的數據近10年的出生人數跟死亡人數的這個比較近4年來我想這個出生率低於死亡率已經大家坊間稱為這叫生不如死的狀態那對於國人為什麼不願意生小孩我想有很多面向可以探討\n\n4\n00:00:56,730 --> 00:01:10,329\n但今天針對的部分想要討論說提升女性勞動參與率跟外籍家庭辦公放寬還有家庭照顧價放寬這些問題來救教一下我們院長我想先從這個女性勞參與率的部分\n\n5\n00:01:11,485 --> 00:01:23,794\n這個是去年國發會的統計女性勞參率30歲後逐年的來下滑那整體勞參率從亞洲各國來看的話日本韓國的女性勞動參與率分別平均還是有53.5跟53.3還是高於台灣的這個50%\n\n6\n00:01:28,197 --> 00:01:42,419\n那同為亞洲國家新加坡也有64%那北歐國家瑞典是高達7乘1我想這個女性勞參率下降30歲一路下降很大一部分原因就我的觀察來講是因為婚育的關係啊\n\n7\n00:01:43,188 --> 00:02:02,528\n因為婚姻之後離開職場的女性不管是我們身邊也好統計資料看起來也好有很多女性是為了家庭她可能要犧牲自己的工作所以政府一直也希望能夠提高女性的勞動參與率我想這個是一個方向但是到底怎麼做我覺得這個是政府需要來檢討的部分\n\n8\n00:02:03,929 --> 00:02:29,766\n為什麼這女性勞動參與率最近這裡會比較大家可以關注我想就從我們這個大專校院畢業生人出來看我想我們女性我國女性受到高等教育的這個學位在數據上看起來其實跟男性不相上下但在事實上還有現實面上真的有很多這個女性她因為家庭而被迫要放棄工作不管是在家照顧幼兒也好甚至照顧長輩這些我想都是\n\n9\n00:02:50,925 --> 00:03:05,230\n那我剛提到說一直提到說這些女性不斷的被綁在家庭我的數據來自於哪裡數據來自於衛福部111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查報告的部分這個我國雙薪家庭就育有\n\n10\n00:03:06,788 --> 00:03:28,355\n6歲以下就血淋前兒童的家庭的這個父母親62%雙親家庭那父母均有工作的這個家庭就父母均有工作是61.7%那只有父親有工作的占32.4%那只有母親有工作是4.4%那如果依照工時來觀察父親需要在週末工作的占44.6%高於母親的\n\n11\n00:03:31,116 --> 00:03:59,803\n反正30.2那整體來講平均工作時數父親也是高於母親那從這個學齡前兒童申請育兒留職停息的狀況實際上來看母親申請育兒留停的比例是34%那爸爸呢只有6.4%這個是從數據上很明顯看到多數時候都是媽媽在申請留停那平均申請的留停的月數媽媽是8.8個月爸爸平均只有5.9個月那如果平均來看的話\n\n12\n00:04:01,055 --> 00:04:29,485\n再看下一個數據這個有趣的觀察這父母親你如果沒有申請留職銀行的原因的話媽媽的原因是因為這個小孩已經有其他人來照顧占了37.7%跟當時沒有在工作占了31.5%那換到爸爸呢爸爸的原因是因為這個有他人照顧51.1%那改由配偶通常是媽媽配偶來申請的話26.8%所以爸爸的原因有一部分是因為媽媽已經把我申請完了\n\n13\n00:04:30,285 --> 00:04:52,796\n那如果從這個實際的照顧安排的話,0至3歲未滿3歲的部分由父母親照顧的比例最高是42.5%父母親自己照顧。那麼32.6%是送出去托嬰或是各項機構。但是如果過了3歲到幼稚園的部分,就讀幼兒園的比例就高達91%,自己照顧的驟降到5.6%,這是這個衛福部的統計。所以看到0至3歲3到6歲有一個很奇怪的節點。\n\n14\n00:04:59,482 --> 00:05:25,219\n十三歲三到六歲突然間自己照顧呃送到外面照顧三十二點六升到九十一點三齁增加了六成齁這個數據先核心序名把這個數據給我們院長跟部長來分享那所以今天我要提到說為什麼今天特別提這個所謂家庭幫庸放寬的這個機制我想現代社會多數都是雙薪家庭的情況下面照顧小孩這件事情吶\n\n15\n00:05:26,766 --> 00:05:26,806\n﹚黃健豪\n\n16\n00:05:50,854 --> 00:05:53,697\n當然如果能夠提供好的這個家庭,帶小孩的這個環境的話,那讓女性能夠再次參與勞動市場,這個社會的生產力絕對是有幫忙的。\n\n17\n00:06:15,897 --> 00:06:32,984\n實務上我們知道為什麼今天特別提到這個案子就是因為實際上來講當然台灣現在有很多人聘用的是所謂的家庭看護工但他聘用家庭看護工他實際上理論上因為我們現在所謂的八四兩表他來是要來做這個家庭看護的工作但是實際上\n\n18\n00:06:34,409 --> 00:06:56,015\n社會的現實面上很多人其實把家庭看護工也同時的去做了所謂的從事房舍清理、食物棚條跟家庭成員起居照料跟其他家事服務有關的工作。就是台灣在面對這件事情上面在家事一共上面他把家庭看護工跟家庭幫傭的這個工作來把它混淆在一起。院長你知不知道有這個現實的狀態?\n\n19\n00:06:58,667 --> 00:06:59,648\n應該社會上存在這種狀態是有的。\n\n20\n00:07:20,177 --> 00:07:39,216\n但是家庭幫傭如果被抓到的話當然會被罰錢啦在按照我們的就業服務法裡面他當然會有這個懲罰的機制但是實際上就是有這個需求所以我想問一下我們目前的這個院內或是我們部內的看法願不願意往這個方向來放寬所謂家庭幫傭的方向來思考\n\n21\n00:07:39,841 --> 00:08:01,570\n目前試考的方式我想請勞動部先說明。關於這個家庭幫傭的開放,確實在過去的陳院長任內也都有討論過。主要是我們國內的保母團體,他們也很顧慮說這樣子的開放對幼兒的成長未必好。\n\n22\n00:08:02,190 --> 00:08:09,058\n那麼還有包括那個這個可能會衝擊國內保母的就業機會啦所以這確實是一個也必要考慮的問題可是委員我們現在已經開始規劃一個叫做多元陪伴服務方案那這是我們最近嘗試的一個有彈性的有NGO團體\n\n23\n00:08:36,971 --> 00:08:43,373\n謝謝部長,我也跟院長跟部長分享當然現在家庭裡面尤其雙薪有現在很多年輕家庭他遇到的問題是說剛剛包含說部長提到的這個保姆的問題但是問題是說現在很多從幼稚園下課或是說從保姆家裡面接回來之後\n\n24\n00:09:04,821 --> 00:09:24,043\n他這個家長不管是爸爸或媽媽或雙邊他回到家裡面他還是要面臨很大量的家務他還是很多家務要處理那家務處理同時他也要陪伴小孩那陪伴小孩當然有很多這個層次的問題啦不管是這個陪伴他快樂的閱讀也好還是說把這個他基本的生活起居照顧好也好\n\n25\n00:09:24,663 --> 00:09:52,313\n這個都是他下班之後要回來的這一段所以我們希望今天提出來的問題說希望能夠解決的是讓這個少子化問題是希望讓這些家庭能夠在就業之外就是我在上班下班之後我把小孩接回來之後同時家裡面有一個幫手去處理其他的雜務因為其實還有一個問題我們現階段台灣的法律啊我們其實本國人跟外國人的這個規範是不一樣的嘛部長應該很清楚院長應該很清楚啊\n\n26\n00:09:54,244 --> 00:10:16,992\n所以外國人在臺灣高薪或是白領階級的他這個薪水一定程度的我們是看他的薪資結構來決定他能不能請所謂的這個家庭幫優但對本國人的限制有很多條件啊我覺得很多家庭最大的反應是說現階段的規定是要六歲以下三個我才能夠請啊\n\n27\n00:10:17,930 --> 00:10:47,089\n外國人不用啊,外國人是我只要心是達到一定水準,我的生活條件達到一定水準,我就能夠請。但你對本國人的限制,是你要生6歲以下生3個,我才能請。我想問一下這個實務上,院長跟部長,你們覺得在台灣現階段情況下面的家庭結構下面,有多少家庭他可以生6個,生3個6歲以下的人,是小孩,很難吧?而且這很難,達到這個我就算今年達到了,我小孩明年7歲之後怎麼辦?\n\n28\n00:10:48,186 --> 00:10:48,206\n院長﹖\n\n29\n00:11:15,690 --> 00:11:36,084\n現在有一些建議希望能夠彈性的來計算這種加權的分數,比如說家裡如果有獨居的老人或是說年紀比較高的長者或是兒童本身他有特別需要照顧的情況底下,我想有這些建議,這個建議現在研議的方向怎麼樣,跟外界的討論跟交換意見到底怎麼樣,勞動部來說明一下。\n\n30\n00:11:37,725 --> 00:11:45,198\n是各位報告我們也有這個請我們的相關部門正在研究這方面的點數的放寬吶這個我們會來處理所以這個會期來來不及了這個\n\n31\n00:11:52,281 --> 00:11:52,301\n韓國瑜\n\n32\n00:12:15,867 --> 00:12:39,401\n我還是拜託院長跟部長在這個事件上面應該還是要朝放寬的這個方向讓市場自由競爭讓民眾讓這些所謂的家庭有顧小孩的家庭或打算生小孩家庭他有選擇的權利而不是把他限制在某些條件裡面我想這個是面對少子化要拿出一個務實的態度當然理論很美好但是現實就是很骨感\n\n33\n00:12:39,881 --> 00:12:58,363\n坦白說我也知道說這個保姆團體或者是這個很多的這個團體會有意見,但是回到真正的有照顧小孩的家庭,我們提出來的具體的問題他就像面臨到我每天下班之後或是一定要有一個人在家裡面犧牲自己的工作來照顧小孩,\n\n34\n00:12:58,863 --> 00:13:03,466\n謝謝委員這個建議我個人我本人也認為有這個需求那我們如何來增加這個彈性的計算更多元的來選擇這個我想下半年我們來做一個決定好不好\n\n35\n00:13:27,904 --> 00:13:55,012\n好謝謝院長接下來這個議題結束我們來討論最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們台灣溫室氣體的部分我想台灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大這都是屬於發電業那我想上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會那我想目前也沒有正確的一個結論那當然原因是什麼原因就是因為我想從我們統計的數字來看如果\n\n36\n00:13:56,394 --> 00:14:17,638\n二氧,能源部門的二氧化碳排放量,直接排放量佔70%,但是現在的算法是把它算成進階排放,因為你賣給,賣出去之後就算消費者身上了,就賣給消費端了,所以這時候變成剩下14%,我想前陣子環境部還甚至講說,這個樹會造成空氣汙染,大家都覺得說那事業你不敢拿。\n\n37\n00:14:18,318 --> 00:14:42,654\n拜訪高的這個發電開刀啊當然我也是肯定說你們現在把這個這個公告撤掉了但是你從這個直接排放跟間接排放從70%交14%把它轉嫁出去我想這是原因是來自我們氣候變遷應用法裡面28條所謂的直接排放員跟間接排放員那還有提到說這個可以扣掉間接排放員可以扣掉我賣出去之後不算但是這有什麼問題這會產生對業者來講對民間業者來講對這些製造業來講\n\n38\n00:14:48,258 --> 00:15:04,612\n我明明ESG做得很好但是因為我的店我沒有得選啊我台灣的發電結構就長這樣子所以我必須去承擔這個成本我不知道這個能夠把70%加到40%這個做法是環境部的意見還是經濟部的意見部長\n\n39\n00:15:06,413 --> 00:15:31,748\n這個是當時氣候法定義的結果,那這個大多數的國家也這樣做。當然委員說的也對,有些國家是直接在一起在算,但是我們那時候朝野協商定了氣候變遷因應法,就是照這樣的方式來處理。我想林岳你這樣做啊,對於後續...以後在課偵探對,或者是以後在課偵探對的時候,對本國的產業會有很大改善,希望環境部能夠堅持你的立場,這個前後我們來把事情處理好嗎?\n\n40\n00:15:38,347 --> 00:15:47,200\n謝謝黃委員謝謝院長八月會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是南投市婦女會的朋友\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2366\t6908\t好,謝謝主席。主席我們先請院長。好,請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。\n17376\t31297\t委員長好。 院長今天呢想要先跟院長來討論首先討論這個少子女化的問題啊。 我們都知道說目前少子女化應該是國安問題。 我想確認一下院長我們現在新內閣有沒有把少子女化的問題視為國安問題。\n32964\t56130\t一直是這從之前的內閣到現在都把這個當作很重要的國家重要問題來做解決。謝謝院長我想大家看到這個最近的數據近10年的出生人數跟死亡人數的這個比較近4年來我想這個出生率低於死亡率已經大家坊間稱為這叫生不如死的狀態那對於國人為什麼不願意生小孩我想有很多面向可以探討\n56730\t70329\t但今天針對的部分想要討論說提升女性勞動參與率跟外籍家庭辦公放寬還有家庭照顧價放寬這些問題來救教一下我們院長我想先從這個女性勞參與率的部分\n71485\t83794\t這個是去年國發會的統計女性勞參率30歲後逐年的來下滑那整體勞參率從亞洲各國來看的話日本韓國的女性勞動參與率分別平均還是有53.5跟53.3還是高於台灣的這個50%\n88197\t102419\t那同為亞洲國家新加坡也有64%那北歐國家瑞典是高達7乘1我想這個女性勞參率下降30歲一路下降很大一部分原因就我的觀察來講是因為婚育的關係啊\n103188\t122528\t因為婚姻之後離開職場的女性不管是我們身邊也好統計資料看起來也好有很多女性是為了家庭她可能要犧牲自己的工作所以政府一直也希望能夠提高女性的勞動參與率我想這個是一個方向但是到底怎麼做我覺得這個是政府需要來檢討的部分\n123929\t149766\t為什麼這女性勞動參與率最近這裡會比較大家可以關注我想就從我們這個大專校院畢業生人出來看我想我們女性我國女性受到高等教育的這個學位在數據上看起來其實跟男性不相上下但在事實上還有現實面上真的有很多這個女性她因為家庭而被迫要放棄工作不管是在家照顧幼兒也好甚至照顧長輩這些我想都是\n150026\t170845\t響鐘\n170925\t185230\t那我剛提到說一直提到說這些女性不斷的被綁在家庭我的數據來自於哪裡數據來自於衛福部111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查報告的部分這個我國雙薪家庭就育有\n186788\t208355\t6歲以下就血淋前兒童的家庭的這個父母親62%雙親家庭那父母均有工作的這個家庭就父母均有工作是61.7%那只有父親有工作的占32.4%那只有母親有工作是4.4%那如果依照工時來觀察父親需要在週末工作的占44.6%高於母親的\n211116\t239803\t反正30.2那整體來講平均工作時數父親也是高於母親那從這個學齡前兒童申請育兒留職停息的狀況實際上來看母親申請育兒留停的比例是34%那爸爸呢只有6.4%這個是從數據上很明顯看到多數時候都是媽媽在申請留停那平均申請的留停的月數媽媽是8.8個月爸爸平均只有5.9個月那如果平均來看的話\n241055\t269485\t再看下一個數據這個有趣的觀察這父母親你如果沒有申請留職銀行的原因的話媽媽的原因是因為這個小孩已經有其他人來照顧占了37.7%跟當時沒有在工作占了31.5%那換到爸爸呢爸爸的原因是因為這個有他人照顧51.1%那改由配偶通常是媽媽配偶來申請的話26.8%所以爸爸的原因有一部分是因為媽媽已經把我申請完了\n270285\t292796\t那如果從這個實際的照顧安排的話,0至3歲未滿3歲的部分由父母親照顧的比例最高是42.5%父母親自己照顧。那麼32.6%是送出去托嬰或是各項機構。但是如果過了3歲到幼稚園的部分,就讀幼兒園的比例就高達91%,自己照顧的驟降到5.6%,這是這個衛福部的統計。所以看到0至3歲3到6歲有一個很奇怪的節點。\n299482\t325219\t十三歲三到六歲突然間自己照顧呃送到外面照顧三十二點六升到九十一點三齁增加了六成齁這個數據先核心序名把這個數據給我們院長跟部長來分享那所以今天我要提到說為什麼今天特別提這個所謂家庭幫庸放寬的這個機制我想現代社會多數都是雙薪家庭的情況下面照顧小孩這件事情吶\n326766\t326806\t﹚黃健豪\n350854\t353697\t當然如果能夠提供好的這個家庭,帶小孩的這個環境的話,那讓女性能夠再次參與勞動市場,這個社會的生產力絕對是有幫忙的。\n375897\t392984\t實務上我們知道為什麼今天特別提到這個案子就是因為實際上來講當然台灣現在有很多人聘用的是所謂的家庭看護工但他聘用家庭看護工他實際上理論上因為我們現在所謂的八四兩表他來是要來做這個家庭看護的工作但是實際上\n394409\t416015\t社會的現實面上很多人其實把家庭看護工也同時的去做了所謂的從事房舍清理、食物棚條跟家庭成員起居照料跟其他家事服務有關的工作。就是台灣在面對這件事情上面在家事一共上面他把家庭看護工跟家庭幫傭的這個工作來把它混淆在一起。院長你知不知道有這個現實的狀態?\n418667\t419648\t應該社會上存在這種狀態是有的。\n440177\t459216\t但是家庭幫傭如果被抓到的話當然會被罰錢啦在按照我們的就業服務法裡面他當然會有這個懲罰的機制但是實際上就是有這個需求所以我想問一下我們目前的這個院內或是我們部內的看法願不願意往這個方向來放寬所謂家庭幫傭的方向來思考\n459841\t481570\t目前試考的方式我想請勞動部先說明。關於這個家庭幫傭的開放,確實在過去的陳院長任內也都有討論過。主要是我們國內的保母團體,他們也很顧慮說這樣子的開放對幼兒的成長未必好。\n482190\t489058\t那麼還有包括那個這個可能會衝擊國內保母的就業機會啦所以這確實是一個也必要考慮的問題可是委員我們現在已經開始規劃一個叫做多元陪伴服務方案那這是我們最近嘗試的一個有彈性的有NGO團體\n500111\t516971\t﹏﹏\n516971\t523373\t謝謝部長,我也跟院長跟部長分享當然現在家庭裡面尤其雙薪有現在很多年輕家庭他遇到的問題是說剛剛包含說部長提到的這個保姆的問題但是問題是說現在很多從幼稚園下課或是說從保姆家裡面接回來之後\n544821\t564043\t他這個家長不管是爸爸或媽媽或雙邊他回到家裡面他還是要面臨很大量的家務他還是很多家務要處理那家務處理同時他也要陪伴小孩那陪伴小孩當然有很多這個層次的問題啦不管是這個陪伴他快樂的閱讀也好還是說把這個他基本的生活起居照顧好也好\n564663\t592313\t這個都是他下班之後要回來的這一段所以我們希望今天提出來的問題說希望能夠解決的是讓這個少子化問題是希望讓這些家庭能夠在就業之外就是我在上班下班之後我把小孩接回來之後同時家裡面有一個幫手去處理其他的雜務因為其實還有一個問題我們現階段台灣的法律啊我們其實本國人跟外國人的這個規範是不一樣的嘛部長應該很清楚院長應該很清楚啊\n594244\t616992\t所以外國人在臺灣高薪或是白領階級的他這個薪水一定程度的我們是看他的薪資結構來決定他能不能請所謂的這個家庭幫優但對本國人的限制有很多條件啊我覺得很多家庭最大的反應是說現階段的規定是要六歲以下三個我才能夠請啊\n617930\t647089\t外國人不用啊,外國人是我只要心是達到一定水準,我的生活條件達到一定水準,我就能夠請。但你對本國人的限制,是你要生6歲以下生3個,我才能請。我想問一下這個實務上,院長跟部長,你們覺得在台灣現階段情況下面的家庭結構下面,有多少家庭他可以生6個,生3個6歲以下的人,是小孩,很難吧?而且這很難,達到這個我就算今年達到了,我小孩明年7歲之後怎麼辦?\n648186\t648206\t院長﹖\n675690\t696084\t現在有一些建議希望能夠彈性的來計算這種加權的分數,比如說家裡如果有獨居的老人或是說年紀比較高的長者或是兒童本身他有特別需要照顧的情況底下,我想有這些建議,這個建議現在研議的方向怎麼樣,跟外界的討論跟交換意見到底怎麼樣,勞動部來說明一下。\n697725\t705198\t是各位報告我們也有這個請我們的相關部門正在研究這方面的點數的放寬吶這個我們會來處理所以這個會期來來不及了這個\n712281\t712301\t韓國瑜\n735867\t759401\t我還是拜託院長跟部長在這個事件上面應該還是要朝放寬的這個方向讓市場自由競爭讓民眾讓這些所謂的家庭有顧小孩的家庭或打算生小孩家庭他有選擇的權利而不是把他限制在某些條件裡面我想這個是面對少子化要拿出一個務實的態度當然理論很美好但是現實就是很骨感\n759881\t778363\t坦白說我也知道說這個保姆團體或者是這個很多的這個團體會有意見,但是回到真正的有照顧小孩的家庭,我們提出來的具體的問題他就像面臨到我每天下班之後或是一定要有一個人在家裡面犧牲自己的工作來照顧小孩,\n778863\t783466\t謝謝委員這個建議我個人我本人也認為有這個需求那我們如何來增加這個彈性的計算更多元的來選擇這個我想下半年我們來做一個決定好不好\n807904\t835012\t好謝謝院長接下來這個議題結束我們來討論最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們台灣溫室氣體的部分我想台灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大這都是屬於發電業那我想上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會那我想目前也沒有正確的一個結論那當然原因是什麼原因就是因為我想從我們統計的數字來看如果\n836394\t857638\t二氧,能源部門的二氧化碳排放量,直接排放量佔70%,但是現在的算法是把它算成進階排放,因為你賣給,賣出去之後就算消費者身上了,就賣給消費端了,所以這時候變成剩下14%,我想前陣子環境部還甚至講說,這個樹會造成空氣汙染,大家都覺得說那事業你不敢拿。\n858318\t882654\t拜訪高的這個發電開刀啊當然我也是肯定說你們現在把這個這個公告撤掉了但是你從這個直接排放跟間接排放從70%交14%把它轉嫁出去我想這是原因是來自我們氣候變遷應用法裡面28條所謂的直接排放員跟間接排放員那還有提到說這個可以扣掉間接排放員可以扣掉我賣出去之後不算但是這有什麼問題這會產生對業者來講對民間業者來講對這些製造業來講\n888258\t904612\t我明明ESG做得很好但是因為我的店我沒有得選啊我台灣的發電結構就長這樣子所以我必須去承擔這個成本我不知道這個能夠把70%加到40%這個做法是環境部的意見還是經濟部的意見部長\n906413\t931748\t這個是當時氣候法定義的結果,那這個大多數的國家也這樣做。當然委員說的也對,有些國家是直接在一起在算,但是我們那時候朝野協商定了氣候變遷因應法,就是照這樣的方式來處理。我想林岳你這樣做啊,對於後續...以後在課偵探對,或者是以後在課偵探對的時候,對本國的產業會有很大改善,希望環境部能夠堅持你的立場,這個前後我們來把事情處理好嗎?\n938347\t947200\t謝謝黃委員謝謝院長八月會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是南投市婦女會的朋友\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。主席我們先請院長。好,請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。\n委員長好。 院長今天呢想要先跟院長來討論首先討論這個少子女化的問題啊。 我們都知道說目前少子女化應該是國安問題。 我想確認一下院長我們現在新內閣有沒有把少子女化的問題視為國安問題。\n一直是這從之前的內閣到現在都把這個當作很重要的國家重要問題來做解決。謝謝院長我想大家看到這個最近的數據近10年的出生人數跟死亡人數的這個比較近4年來我想這個出生率低於死亡率已經大家坊間稱為這叫生不如死的狀態那對於國人為什麼不願意生小孩我想有很多面向可以探討\n但今天針對的部分想要討論說提升女性勞動參與率跟外籍家庭辦公放寬還有家庭照顧價放寬這些問題來救教一下我們院長我想先從這個女性勞參與率的部分\n這個是去年國發會的統計女性勞參率30歲後逐年的來下滑那整體勞參率從亞洲各國來看的話日本韓國的女性勞動參與率分別平均還是有53.5跟53.3還是高於台灣的這個50%\n那同為亞洲國家新加坡也有64%那北歐國家瑞典是高達7乘1我想這個女性勞參率下降30歲一路下降很大一部分原因就我的觀察來講是因為婚育的關係啊\n因為婚姻之後離開職場的女性不管是我們身邊也好統計資料看起來也好有很多女性是為了家庭她可能要犧牲自己的工作所以政府一直也希望能夠提高女性的勞動參與率我想這個是一個方向但是到底怎麼做我覺得這個是政府需要來檢討的部分\n為什麼這女性勞動參與率最近這裡會比較大家可以關注我想就從我們這個大專校院畢業生人出來看我想我們女性我國女性受到高等教育的這個學位在數據上看起來其實跟男性不相上下但在事實上還有現實面上真的有很多這個女性她因為家庭而被迫要放棄工作不管是在家照顧幼兒也好甚至照顧長輩這些我想都是\n響鐘\n那我剛提到說一直提到說這些女性不斷的被綁在家庭我的數據來自於哪裡數據來自於衛福部111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查報告的部分這個我國雙薪家庭就育有\n6歲以下就血淋前兒童的家庭的這個父母親62%雙親家庭那父母均有工作的這個家庭就父母均有工作是61.7%那只有父親有工作的占32.4%那只有母親有工作是4.4%那如果依照工時來觀察父親需要在週末工作的占44.6%高於母親的\n反正30.2那整體來講平均工作時數父親也是高於母親那從這個學齡前兒童申請育兒留職停息的狀況實際上來看母親申請育兒留停的比例是34%那爸爸呢只有6.4%這個是從數據上很明顯看到多數時候都是媽媽在申請留停那平均申請的留停的月數媽媽是8.8個月爸爸平均只有5.9個月那如果平均來看的話\n再看下一個數據這個有趣的觀察這父母親你如果沒有申請留職銀行的原因的話媽媽的原因是因為這個小孩已經有其他人來照顧占了37.7%跟當時沒有在工作占了31.5%那換到爸爸呢爸爸的原因是因為這個有他人照顧51.1%那改由配偶通常是媽媽配偶來申請的話26.8%所以爸爸的原因有一部分是因為媽媽已經把我申請完了\n那如果從這個實際的照顧安排的話,0至3歲未滿3歲的部分由父母親照顧的比例最高是42.5%父母親自己照顧。那麼32.6%是送出去托嬰或是各項機構。但是如果過了3歲到幼稚園的部分,就讀幼兒園的比例就高達91%,自己照顧的驟降到5.6%,這是這個衛福部的統計。所以看到0至3歲3到6歲有一個很奇怪的節點。\n十三歲三到六歲突然間自己照顧呃送到外面照顧三十二點六升到九十一點三齁增加了六成齁這個數據先核心序名把這個數據給我們院長跟部長來分享那所以今天我要提到說為什麼今天特別提這個所謂家庭幫庸放寬的這個機制我想現代社會多數都是雙薪家庭的情況下面照顧小孩這件事情吶\n﹚黃健豪\n當然如果能夠提供好的這個家庭,帶小孩的這個環境的話,那讓女性能夠再次參與勞動市場,這個社會的生產力絕對是有幫忙的。\n實務上我們知道為什麼今天特別提到這個案子就是因為實際上來講當然台灣現在有很多人聘用的是所謂的家庭看護工但他聘用家庭看護工他實際上理論上因為我們現在所謂的八四兩表他來是要來做這個家庭看護的工作但是實際上\n社會的現實面上很多人其實把家庭看護工也同時的去做了所謂的從事房舍清理、食物棚條跟家庭成員起居照料跟其他家事服務有關的工作。就是台灣在面對這件事情上面在家事一共上面他把家庭看護工跟家庭幫傭的這個工作來把它混淆在一起。院長你知不知道有這個現實的狀態?\n應該社會上存在這種狀態是有的。\n但是家庭幫傭如果被抓到的話當然會被罰錢啦在按照我們的就業服務法裡面他當然會有這個懲罰的機制但是實際上就是有這個需求所以我想問一下我們目前的這個院內或是我們部內的看法願不願意往這個方向來放寬所謂家庭幫傭的方向來思考\n目前試考的方式我想請勞動部先說明。關於這個家庭幫傭的開放,確實在過去的陳院長任內也都有討論過。主要是我們國內的保母團體,他們也很顧慮說這樣子的開放對幼兒的成長未必好。\n那麼還有包括那個這個可能會衝擊國內保母的就業機會啦所以這確實是一個也必要考慮的問題可是委員我們現在已經開始規劃一個叫做多元陪伴服務方案那這是我們最近嘗試的一個有彈性的有NGO團體\n﹏﹏\n謝謝部長,我也跟院長跟部長分享當然現在家庭裡面尤其雙薪有現在很多年輕家庭他遇到的問題是說剛剛包含說部長提到的這個保姆的問題但是問題是說現在很多從幼稚園下課或是說從保姆家裡面接回來之後\n他這個家長不管是爸爸或媽媽或雙邊他回到家裡面他還是要面臨很大量的家務他還是很多家務要處理那家務處理同時他也要陪伴小孩那陪伴小孩當然有很多這個層次的問題啦不管是這個陪伴他快樂的閱讀也好還是說把這個他基本的生活起居照顧好也好\n這個都是他下班之後要回來的這一段所以我們希望今天提出來的問題說希望能夠解決的是讓這個少子化問題是希望讓這些家庭能夠在就業之外就是我在上班下班之後我把小孩接回來之後同時家裡面有一個幫手去處理其他的雜務因為其實還有一個問題我們現階段台灣的法律啊我們其實本國人跟外國人的這個規範是不一樣的嘛部長應該很清楚院長應該很清楚啊\n所以外國人在臺灣高薪或是白領階級的他這個薪水一定程度的我們是看他的薪資結構來決定他能不能請所謂的這個家庭幫優但對本國人的限制有很多條件啊我覺得很多家庭最大的反應是說現階段的規定是要六歲以下三個我才能夠請啊\n外國人不用啊,外國人是我只要心是達到一定水準,我的生活條件達到一定水準,我就能夠請。但你對本國人的限制,是你要生6歲以下生3個,我才能請。我想問一下這個實務上,院長跟部長,你們覺得在台灣現階段情況下面的家庭結構下面,有多少家庭他可以生6個,生3個6歲以下的人,是小孩,很難吧?而且這很難,達到這個我就算今年達到了,我小孩明年7歲之後怎麼辦?\n院長﹖\n現在有一些建議希望能夠彈性的來計算這種加權的分數,比如說家裡如果有獨居的老人或是說年紀比較高的長者或是兒童本身他有特別需要照顧的情況底下,我想有這些建議,這個建議現在研議的方向怎麼樣,跟外界的討論跟交換意見到底怎麼樣,勞動部來說明一下。\n是各位報告我們也有這個請我們的相關部門正在研究這方面的點數的放寬吶這個我們會來處理所以這個會期來來不及了這個\n韓國瑜\n我還是拜託院長跟部長在這個事件上面應該還是要朝放寬的這個方向讓市場自由競爭讓民眾讓這些所謂的家庭有顧小孩的家庭或打算生小孩家庭他有選擇的權利而不是把他限制在某些條件裡面我想這個是面對少子化要拿出一個務實的態度當然理論很美好但是現實就是很骨感\n坦白說我也知道說這個保姆團體或者是這個很多的這個團體會有意見,但是回到真正的有照顧小孩的家庭,我們提出來的具體的問題他就像面臨到我每天下班之後或是一定要有一個人在家裡面犧牲自己的工作來照顧小孩,\n謝謝委員這個建議我個人我本人也認為有這個需求那我們如何來增加這個彈性的計算更多元的來選擇這個我想下半年我們來做一個決定好不好\n好謝謝院長接下來這個議題結束我們來討論最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們台灣溫室氣體的部分我想台灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大這都是屬於發電業那我想上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會那我想目前也沒有正確的一個結論那當然原因是什麼原因就是因為我想從我們統計的數字來看如果\n二氧,能源部門的二氧化碳排放量,直接排放量佔70%,但是現在的算法是把它算成進階排放,因為你賣給,賣出去之後就算消費者身上了,就賣給消費端了,所以這時候變成剩下14%,我想前陣子環境部還甚至講說,這個樹會造成空氣汙染,大家都覺得說那事業你不敢拿。\n拜訪高的這個發電開刀啊當然我也是肯定說你們現在把這個這個公告撤掉了但是你從這個直接排放跟間接排放從70%交14%把它轉嫁出去我想這是原因是來自我們氣候變遷應用法裡面28條所謂的直接排放員跟間接排放員那還有提到說這個可以扣掉間接排放員可以扣掉我賣出去之後不算但是這有什麼問題這會產生對業者來講對民間業者來講對這些製造業來講\n我明明ESG做得很好但是因為我的店我沒有得選啊我台灣的發電結構就長這樣子所以我必須去承擔這個成本我不知道這個能夠把70%加到40%這個做法是環境部的意見還是經濟部的意見部長\n這個是當時氣候法定義的結果,那這個大多數的國家也這樣做。當然委員說的也對,有些國家是直接在一起在算,但是我們那時候朝野協商定了氣候變遷因應法,就是照這樣的方式來處理。我想林岳你這樣做啊,對於後續...以後在課偵探對,或者是以後在課偵探對的時候,對本國的產業會有很大改善,希望環境部能夠堅持你的立場,這個前後我們來把事情處理好嗎?\n謝謝黃委員謝謝院長八月會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是南投市婦女會的朋友\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.366 --> 00:06.908\n好,謝謝主席。主席我們先請院長。好,請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。\n\n00:17.376 --> 00:31.297\n委員長好。院長今天呢想要先跟院長來討論首先討論這個少子女化的問題啊。我們都知道說目前少子女化應該是國安問題。我想確認一下院長我們現在新內閣有沒有把少子女化的問題視為國安問題。\n\n00:32.964 --> 00:56.130\n一直是這從之前的內閣到現在都把這個當作很重要的國家重要問題來做解決。謝謝院長我想大家看到這個最近的數據近10年的出生人數跟死亡人數的這個比較近4年來我想這個出生率低於死亡率已經大家坊間稱為這叫生不如死的狀態那對於國人為什麼不願意生小孩我想有很多面向可以探討\n\n00:56.730 --> 01:10.329\n但今天針對的部分想要討論說提升女性勞動參與率跟外籍家庭辦公放寬還有家庭照顧價放寬這些問題來救教一下我們院長我想先從這個女性勞參與率的部分\n\n01:11.485 --> 01:23.794\n這個是去年國發會的統計女性勞參率30歲後逐年的來下滑那整體勞參率從亞洲各國來看的話日本韓國的女性勞動參與率分別平均還是有53.5跟53.3還是高於台灣的這個50%\n\n01:28.197 --> 01:42.419\n那同為亞洲國家新加坡也有64%那北歐國家瑞典是高達7乘1我想這個女性勞參率下降30歲一路下降很大一部分原因就我的觀察來講是因為婚育的關係啊\n\n01:43.188 --> 02:02.528\n因為婚姻之後離開職場的女性不管是我們身邊也好統計資料看起來也好有很多女性是為了家庭她可能要犧牲自己的工作所以政府一直也希望能夠提高女性的勞動參與率我想這個是一個方向但是到底怎麼做我覺得這個是政府需要來檢討的部分\n\n02:03.929 --> 02:29.766\n為什麼這女性勞動參與率最近這裡會比較大家可以關注我想就從我們這個大專校院畢業生人出來看我想我們女性我國女性受到高等教育的這個學位在數據上看起來其實跟男性不相上下但在事實上還有現實面上真的有很多這個女性她因為家庭而被迫要放棄工作不管是在家照顧幼兒也好甚至照顧長輩這些我想都是\n\n02:50.925 --> 03:05.230\n那我剛提到說一直提到說這些女性不斷的被綁在家庭我的數據來自於哪裡數據來自於衛福部111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查報告的部分這個我國雙薪家庭就育有\n\n03:06.788 --> 03:28.355\n6歲以下就血淋前兒童的家庭的這個父母親62%雙親家庭那父母均有工作的這個家庭就父母均有工作是61.7%那只有父親有工作的占32.4%那只有母親有工作是4.4%那如果依照工時來觀察父親需要在週末工作的占44.6%高於母親的\n\n03:31.116 --> 03:59.803\n反正30.2那整體來講平均工作時數父親也是高於母親那從這個學齡前兒童申請育兒留職停息的狀況實際上來看母親申請育兒留停的比例是34%那爸爸呢只有6.4%這個是從數據上很明顯看到多數時候都是媽媽在申請留停那平均申請的留停的月數媽媽是8.8個月爸爸平均只有5.9個月那如果平均來看的話\n\n04:01.055 --> 04:29.485\n再看下一個數據這個有趣的觀察這父母親你如果沒有申請留職銀行的原因的話媽媽的原因是因為這個小孩已經有其他人來照顧占了37.7%跟當時沒有在工作占了31.5%那換到爸爸呢爸爸的原因是因為這個有他人照顧51.1%那改由配偶通常是媽媽配偶來申請的話26.8%所以爸爸的原因有一部分是因為媽媽已經把我申請完了\n\n04:30.285 --> 04:52.796\n那如果從這個實際的照顧安排的話,0至3歲未滿3歲的部分由父母親照顧的比例最高是42.5%父母親自己照顧。那麼32.6%是送出去托嬰或是各項機構。但是如果過了3歲到幼稚園的部分,就讀幼兒園的比例就高達91%,自己照顧的驟降到5.6%,這是這個衛福部的統計。所以看到0至3歲3到6歲有一個很奇怪的節點。\n\n04:59.482 --> 05:25.219\n十三歲三到六歲突然間自己照顧呃送到外面照顧三十二點六升到九十一點三齁增加了六成齁這個數據先核心序名把這個數據給我們院長跟部長來分享那所以今天我要提到說為什麼今天特別提這個所謂家庭幫庸放寬的這個機制我想現代社會多數都是雙薪家庭的情況下面照顧小孩這件事情吶\n\n05:26.766 --> 05:26.806\n﹚黃健豪\n\n05:50.854 --> 05:53.697\n當然如果能夠提供好的這個家庭,帶小孩的這個環境的話,那讓女性能夠再次參與勞動市場,這個社會的生產力絕對是有幫忙的。\n\n06:15.897 --> 06:32.984\n實務上我們知道為什麼今天特別提到這個案子就是因為實際上來講當然台灣現在有很多人聘用的是所謂的家庭看護工但他聘用家庭看護工他實際上理論上因為我們現在所謂的八四兩表他來是要來做這個家庭看護的工作但是實際上\n\n06:34.409 --> 06:56.015\n社會的現實面上很多人其實把家庭看護工也同時的去做了所謂的從事房舍清理、食物棚條跟家庭成員起居照料跟其他家事服務有關的工作。就是台灣在面對這件事情上面在家事一共上面他把家庭看護工跟家庭幫傭的這個工作來把它混淆在一起。院長你知不知道有這個現實的狀態?\n\n06:58.667 --> 06:59.648\n應該社會上存在這種狀態是有的。\n\n07:20.177 --> 07:39.216\n但是家庭幫傭如果被抓到的話當然會被罰錢啦在按照我們的就業服務法裡面他當然會有這個懲罰的機制但是實際上就是有這個需求所以我想問一下我們目前的這個院內或是我們部內的看法願不願意往這個方向來放寬所謂家庭幫傭的方向來思考\n\n07:39.841 --> 08:01.570\n目前試考的方式我想請勞動部先說明。關於這個家庭幫傭的開放,確實在過去的陳院長任內也都有討論過。主要是我們國內的保母團體,他們也很顧慮說這樣子的開放對幼兒的成長未必好。\n\n08:02.190 --> 08:09.058\n那麼還有包括那個這個可能會衝擊國內保母的就業機會啦所以這確實是一個也必要考慮的問題可是委員我們現在已經開始規劃一個叫做多元陪伴服務方案那這是我們最近嘗試的一個有彈性的有NGO團體\n\n08:36.971 --> 08:43.373\n謝謝部長,我也跟院長跟部長分享當然現在家庭裡面尤其雙薪有現在很多年輕家庭他遇到的問題是說剛剛包含說部長提到的這個保姆的問題但是問題是說現在很多從幼稚園下課或是說從保姆家裡面接回來之後\n\n09:04.821 --> 09:24.043\n他這個家長不管是爸爸或媽媽或雙邊他回到家裡面他還是要面臨很大量的家務他還是很多家務要處理那家務處理同時他也要陪伴小孩那陪伴小孩當然有很多這個層次的問題啦不管是這個陪伴他快樂的閱讀也好還是說把這個他基本的生活起居照顧好也好\n\n09:24.663 --> 09:52.313\n這個都是他下班之後要回來的這一段所以我們希望今天提出來的問題說希望能夠解決的是讓這個少子化問題是希望讓這些家庭能夠在就業之外就是我在上班下班之後我把小孩接回來之後同時家裡面有一個幫手去處理其他的雜務因為其實還有一個問題我們現階段台灣的法律啊我們其實本國人跟外國人的這個規範是不一樣的嘛部長應該很清楚院長應該很清楚啊\n\n09:54.244 --> 10:16.992\n所以外國人在臺灣高薪或是白領階級的他這個薪水一定程度的我們是看他的薪資結構來決定他能不能請所謂的這個家庭幫優但對本國人的限制有很多條件啊我覺得很多家庭最大的反應是說現階段的規定是要六歲以下三個我才能夠請啊\n\n10:17.930 --> 10:47.089\n外國人不用啊,外國人是我只要心是達到一定水準,我的生活條件達到一定水準,我就能夠請。但你對本國人的限制,是你要生6歲以下生3個,我才能請。我想問一下這個實務上,院長跟部長,你們覺得在台灣現階段情況下面的家庭結構下面,有多少家庭他可以生6個,生3個6歲以下的人,是小孩,很難吧?而且這很難,達到這個我就算今年達到了,我小孩明年7歲之後怎麼辦?\n\n10:48.186 --> 10:48.206\n院長﹖\n\n11:15.690 --> 11:36.084\n現在有一些建議希望能夠彈性的來計算這種加權的分數,比如說家裡如果有獨居的老人或是說年紀比較高的長者或是兒童本身他有特別需要照顧的情況底下,我想有這些建議,這個建議現在研議的方向怎麼樣,跟外界的討論跟交換意見到底怎麼樣,勞動部來說明一下。\n\n11:37.725 --> 11:45.198\n是各位報告我們也有這個請我們的相關部門正在研究這方面的點數的放寬吶這個我們會來處理所以這個會期來來不及了這個\n\n11:52.281 --> 11:52.301\n韓國瑜\n\n12:15.867 --> 12:39.401\n我還是拜託院長跟部長在這個事件上面應該還是要朝放寬的這個方向讓市場自由競爭讓民眾讓這些所謂的家庭有顧小孩的家庭或打算生小孩家庭他有選擇的權利而不是把他限制在某些條件裡面我想這個是面對少子化要拿出一個務實的態度當然理論很美好但是現實就是很骨感\n\n12:39.881 --> 12:58.363\n坦白說我也知道說這個保姆團體或者是這個很多的這個團體會有意見,但是回到真正的有照顧小孩的家庭,我們提出來的具體的問題他就像面臨到我每天下班之後或是一定要有一個人在家裡面犧牲自己的工作來照顧小孩,\n\n12:58.863 --> 13:03.466\n謝謝委員這個建議我個人我本人也認為有這個需求那我們如何來增加這個彈性的計算更多元的來選擇這個我想下半年我們來做一個決定好不好\n\n13:27.904 --> 13:55.012\n好謝謝院長接下來這個議題結束我們來討論最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們台灣溫室氣體的部分我想台灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大這都是屬於發電業那我想上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會那我想目前也沒有正確的一個結論那當然原因是什麼原因就是因為我想從我們統計的數字來看如果\n\n13:56.394 --> 14:17.638\n二氧,能源部門的二氧化碳排放量,直接排放量佔70%,但是現在的算法是把它算成進階排放,因為你賣給,賣出去之後就算消費者身上了,就賣給消費端了,所以這時候變成剩下14%,我想前陣子環境部還甚至講說,這個樹會造成空氣汙染,大家都覺得說那事業你不敢拿。\n\n14:18.318 --> 14:42.654\n拜訪高的這個發電開刀啊當然我也是肯定說你們現在把這個這個公告撤掉了但是你從這個直接排放跟間接排放從70%交14%把它轉嫁出去我想這是原因是來自我們氣候變遷應用法裡面28條所謂的直接排放員跟間接排放員那還有提到說這個可以扣掉間接排放員可以扣掉我賣出去之後不算但是這有什麼問題這會產生對業者來講對民間業者來講對這些製造業來講\n\n14:48.258 --> 15:04.612\n我明明ESG做得很好但是因為我的店我沒有得選啊我台灣的發電結構就長這樣子所以我必須去承擔這個成本我不知道這個能夠把70%加到40%這個做法是環境部的意見還是經濟部的意見部長\n\n15:06.413 --> 15:31.748\n這個是當時氣候法定義的結果,那這個大多數的國家也這樣做。當然委員說的也對,有些國家是直接在一起在算,但是我們那時候朝野協商定了氣候變遷因應法,就是照這樣的方式來處理。我想林岳你這樣做啊,對於後續...以後在課偵探對,或者是以後在課偵探對的時候,對本國的產業會有很大改善,希望環境部能夠堅持你的立場,這個前後我們來把事情處理好嗎?\n\n15:38.347 --> 15:47.200\n謝謝黃委員謝謝院長八月會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是南投市婦女會的朋友\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.366,"end":6.908,"text":"好,謝謝主席。主席我們先請院長。好,請卓院長備詢。黃委員好。"},{"start":17.376,"end":31.297,"text":"委員長好。 院長今天呢想要先跟院長來討論首先討論這個少子女化的問題啊。 我們都知道說目前少子女化應該是國安問題。 我想確認一下院長我們現在新內閣有沒有把少子女化的問題視為國安問題。"},{"start":32.964,"end":56.13,"text":"一直是這從之前的內閣到現在都把這個當作很重要的國家重要問題來做解決。謝謝院長我想大家看到這個最近的數據近10年的出生人數跟死亡人數的這個比較近4年來我想這個出生率低於死亡率已經大家坊間稱為這叫生不如死的狀態那對於國人為什麼不願意生小孩我想有很多面向可以探討"},{"start":56.73,"end":70.329,"text":"但今天針對的部分想要討論說提升女性勞動參與率跟外籍家庭辦公放寬還有家庭照顧價放寬這些問題來救教一下我們院長我想先從這個女性勞參與率的部分"},{"start":71.485,"end":83.794,"text":"這個是去年國發會的統計女性勞參率30歲後逐年的來下滑那整體勞參率從亞洲各國來看的話日本韓國的女性勞動參與率分別平均還是有53.5跟53.3還是高於台灣的這個50%"},{"start":88.197,"end":102.419,"text":"那同為亞洲國家新加坡也有64%那北歐國家瑞典是高達7乘1我想這個女性勞參率下降30歲一路下降很大一部分原因就我的觀察來講是因為婚育的關係啊"},{"start":103.188,"end":122.528,"text":"因為婚姻之後離開職場的女性不管是我們身邊也好統計資料看起來也好有很多女性是為了家庭她可能要犧牲自己的工作所以政府一直也希望能夠提高女性的勞動參與率我想這個是一個方向但是到底怎麼做我覺得這個是政府需要來檢討的部分"},{"start":123.929,"end":149.766,"text":"為什麼這女性勞動參與率最近這裡會比較大家可以關注我想就從我們這個大專校院畢業生人出來看我想我們女性我國女性受到高等教育的這個學位在數據上看起來其實跟男性不相上下但在事實上還有現實面上真的有很多這個女性她因為家庭而被迫要放棄工作不管是在家照顧幼兒也好甚至照顧長輩這些我想都是"},{"start":150.026,"end":170.845,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":170.925,"end":185.23,"text":"那我剛提到說一直提到說這些女性不斷的被綁在家庭我的數據來自於哪裡數據來自於衛福部111年兒童及少年生活狀況調查報告的部分這個我國雙薪家庭就育有"},{"start":186.788,"end":208.355,"text":"6歲以下就血淋前兒童的家庭的這個父母親62%雙親家庭那父母均有工作的這個家庭就父母均有工作是61.7%那只有父親有工作的占32.4%那只有母親有工作是4.4%那如果依照工時來觀察父親需要在週末工作的占44.6%高於母親的"},{"start":211.116,"end":239.803,"text":"反正30.2那整體來講平均工作時數父親也是高於母親那從這個學齡前兒童申請育兒留職停息的狀況實際上來看母親申請育兒留停的比例是34%那爸爸呢只有6.4%這個是從數據上很明顯看到多數時候都是媽媽在申請留停那平均申請的留停的月數媽媽是8.8個月爸爸平均只有5.9個月那如果平均來看的話"},{"start":241.055,"end":269.485,"text":"再看下一個數據這個有趣的觀察這父母親你如果沒有申請留職銀行的原因的話媽媽的原因是因為這個小孩已經有其他人來照顧占了37.7%跟當時沒有在工作占了31.5%那換到爸爸呢爸爸的原因是因為這個有他人照顧51.1%那改由配偶通常是媽媽配偶來申請的話26.8%所以爸爸的原因有一部分是因為媽媽已經把我申請完了"},{"start":270.285,"end":292.796,"text":"那如果從這個實際的照顧安排的話,0至3歲未滿3歲的部分由父母親照顧的比例最高是42.5%父母親自己照顧。那麼32.6%是送出去托嬰或是各項機構。但是如果過了3歲到幼稚園的部分,就讀幼兒園的比例就高達91%,自己照顧的驟降到5.6%,這是這個衛福部的統計。所以看到0至3歲3到6歲有一個很奇怪的節點。"},{"start":299.482,"end":325.219,"text":"十三歲三到六歲突然間自己照顧呃送到外面照顧三十二點六升到九十一點三齁增加了六成齁這個數據先核心序名把這個數據給我們院長跟部長來分享那所以今天我要提到說為什麼今天特別提這個所謂家庭幫庸放寬的這個機制我想現代社會多數都是雙薪家庭的情況下面照顧小孩這件事情吶"},{"start":326.766,"end":326.806,"text":"﹚黃健豪"},{"start":350.854,"end":353.697,"text":"當然如果能夠提供好的這個家庭,帶小孩的這個環境的話,那讓女性能夠再次參與勞動市場,這個社會的生產力絕對是有幫忙的。"},{"start":375.897,"end":392.984,"text":"實務上我們知道為什麼今天特別提到這個案子就是因為實際上來講當然台灣現在有很多人聘用的是所謂的家庭看護工但他聘用家庭看護工他實際上理論上因為我們現在所謂的八四兩表他來是要來做這個家庭看護的工作但是實際上"},{"start":394.409,"end":416.015,"text":"社會的現實面上很多人其實把家庭看護工也同時的去做了所謂的從事房舍清理、食物棚條跟家庭成員起居照料跟其他家事服務有關的工作。就是台灣在面對這件事情上面在家事一共上面他把家庭看護工跟家庭幫傭的這個工作來把它混淆在一起。院長你知不知道有這個現實的狀態?"},{"start":418.667,"end":419.648,"text":"應該社會上存在這種狀態是有的。"},{"start":440.177,"end":459.216,"text":"但是家庭幫傭如果被抓到的話當然會被罰錢啦在按照我們的就業服務法裡面他當然會有這個懲罰的機制但是實際上就是有這個需求所以我想問一下我們目前的這個院內或是我們部內的看法願不願意往這個方向來放寬所謂家庭幫傭的方向來思考"},{"start":459.841,"end":481.57,"text":"目前試考的方式我想請勞動部先說明。關於這個家庭幫傭的開放,確實在過去的陳院長任內也都有討論過。主要是我們國內的保母團體,他們也很顧慮說這樣子的開放對幼兒的成長未必好。"},{"start":482.19,"end":489.058,"text":"那麼還有包括那個這個可能會衝擊國內保母的就業機會啦所以這確實是一個也必要考慮的問題可是委員我們現在已經開始規劃一個叫做多元陪伴服務方案那這是我們最近嘗試的一個有彈性的有NGO團體"},{"start":500.111,"end":516.971,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":516.971,"end":523.373,"text":"謝謝部長,我也跟院長跟部長分享當然現在家庭裡面尤其雙薪有現在很多年輕家庭他遇到的問題是說剛剛包含說部長提到的這個保姆的問題但是問題是說現在很多從幼稚園下課或是說從保姆家裡面接回來之後"},{"start":544.821,"end":564.043,"text":"他這個家長不管是爸爸或媽媽或雙邊他回到家裡面他還是要面臨很大量的家務他還是很多家務要處理那家務處理同時他也要陪伴小孩那陪伴小孩當然有很多這個層次的問題啦不管是這個陪伴他快樂的閱讀也好還是說把這個他基本的生活起居照顧好也好"},{"start":564.663,"end":592.313,"text":"這個都是他下班之後要回來的這一段所以我們希望今天提出來的問題說希望能夠解決的是讓這個少子化問題是希望讓這些家庭能夠在就業之外就是我在上班下班之後我把小孩接回來之後同時家裡面有一個幫手去處理其他的雜務因為其實還有一個問題我們現階段台灣的法律啊我們其實本國人跟外國人的這個規範是不一樣的嘛部長應該很清楚院長應該很清楚啊"},{"start":594.244,"end":616.992,"text":"所以外國人在臺灣高薪或是白領階級的他這個薪水一定程度的我們是看他的薪資結構來決定他能不能請所謂的這個家庭幫優但對本國人的限制有很多條件啊我覺得很多家庭最大的反應是說現階段的規定是要六歲以下三個我才能夠請啊"},{"start":617.93,"end":647.089,"text":"外國人不用啊,外國人是我只要心是達到一定水準,我的生活條件達到一定水準,我就能夠請。但你對本國人的限制,是你要生6歲以下生3個,我才能請。我想問一下這個實務上,院長跟部長,你們覺得在台灣現階段情況下面的家庭結構下面,有多少家庭他可以生6個,生3個6歲以下的人,是小孩,很難吧?而且這很難,達到這個我就算今年達到了,我小孩明年7歲之後怎麼辦?"},{"start":648.186,"end":648.206,"text":"院長﹖"},{"start":675.69,"end":696.084,"text":"現在有一些建議希望能夠彈性的來計算這種加權的分數,比如說家裡如果有獨居的老人或是說年紀比較高的長者或是兒童本身他有特別需要照顧的情況底下,我想有這些建議,這個建議現在研議的方向怎麼樣,跟外界的討論跟交換意見到底怎麼樣,勞動部來說明一下。"},{"start":697.725,"end":705.198,"text":"是各位報告我們也有這個請我們的相關部門正在研究這方面的點數的放寬吶這個我們會來處理所以這個會期來來不及了這個"},{"start":712.281,"end":712.301,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":735.867,"end":759.401,"text":"我還是拜託院長跟部長在這個事件上面應該還是要朝放寬的這個方向讓市場自由競爭讓民眾讓這些所謂的家庭有顧小孩的家庭或打算生小孩家庭他有選擇的權利而不是把他限制在某些條件裡面我想這個是面對少子化要拿出一個務實的態度當然理論很美好但是現實就是很骨感"},{"start":759.881,"end":778.363,"text":"坦白說我也知道說這個保姆團體或者是這個很多的這個團體會有意見,但是回到真正的有照顧小孩的家庭,我們提出來的具體的問題他就像面臨到我每天下班之後或是一定要有一個人在家裡面犧牲自己的工作來照顧小孩,"},{"start":778.863,"end":783.466,"text":"謝謝委員這個建議我個人我本人也認為有這個需求那我們如何來增加這個彈性的計算更多元的來選擇這個我想下半年我們來做一個決定好不好"},{"start":807.904,"end":835.012,"text":"好謝謝院長接下來這個議題結束我們來討論最後兩分鐘我們討論一下我們台灣溫室氣體的部分我想台灣溫室氣體排放前九大有七大這都是屬於發電業那我想上週五也召開過第四次的碳費費率審議會那我想目前也沒有正確的一個結論那當然原因是什麼原因就是因為我想從我們統計的數字來看如果"},{"start":836.394,"end":857.638,"text":"二氧,能源部門的二氧化碳排放量,直接排放量佔70%,但是現在的算法是把它算成進階排放,因為你賣給,賣出去之後就算消費者身上了,就賣給消費端了,所以這時候變成剩下14%,我想前陣子環境部還甚至講說,這個樹會造成空氣汙染,大家都覺得說那事業你不敢拿。"},{"start":858.318,"end":882.654,"text":"拜訪高的這個發電開刀啊當然我也是肯定說你們現在把這個這個公告撤掉了但是你從這個直接排放跟間接排放從70%交14%把它轉嫁出去我想這是原因是來自我們氣候變遷應用法裡面28條所謂的直接排放員跟間接排放員那還有提到說這個可以扣掉間接排放員可以扣掉我賣出去之後不算但是這有什麼問題這會產生對業者來講對民間業者來講對這些製造業來講"},{"start":888.258,"end":904.612,"text":"我明明ESG做得很好但是因為我的店我沒有得選啊我台灣的發電結構就長這樣子所以我必須去承擔這個成本我不知道這個能夠把70%加到40%這個做法是環境部的意見還是經濟部的意見部長"},{"start":906.413,"end":931.748,"text":"這個是當時氣候法定義的結果,那這個大多數的國家也這樣做。當然委員說的也對,有些國家是直接在一起在算,但是我們那時候朝野協商定了氣候變遷因應法,就是照這樣的方式來處理。我想林岳你這樣做啊,對於後續...以後在課偵探對,或者是以後在課偵探對的時候,對本國的產業會有很大改善,希望環境部能夠堅持你的立場,這個前後我們來把事情處理好嗎?"},{"start":938.347,"end":947.2,"text":"謝謝黃委員謝謝院長八月會現在在議場二樓旁聽的是南投市婦女會的朋友"}]}}}}