{"id":154584,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154584","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/21d04b5a781cb6183563d3539626fd35a09fb1100d58f4be9d3d28c55f1f245bc9668ff6a1ef9dbc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"15:02:44 - 15:18:36","影片長度":"00:15:52","會議時間":"2024-07-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。\n二、7月5日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、7月9日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-09","start_time":"2024-07-09T15:02:44+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-09T15:18:36+08:00","duration":952,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期第21次會議","id":"院會-11-1-21","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":90,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（15時2分）謝謝主席。有請卓院長以及邱部長。"],["主席：卓院長、邱部長請備詢。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，你要喝個水嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，解放軍戰機最近四面環臺的天數跟次數是越來越高，我們6月還為了解放軍海軍曾經擔任過艇長的男子駕駛小艇駛入淡水河口，政府也承認反應過慢，為時已晚。院長，兩岸關係越演越烈，越來越緊張，今天我們要積極備戰，我們也要努力避戰，我想這是政府應該有的態度吧！對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一向是認為備戰才能避戰，能戰才能止戰。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是的，所以我覺得積極的備戰也是我們很重要的一個方針。今天有一個狀況，我想我們一起來探討備戰相關的事後檢討。今天假設蘇澳港、高雄港、淡水港突然被解放軍的炸彈襲擊，造成蘇澳300人受傷，高雄1,000人受傷，淡水500人受傷，我想請問一下院長，對於這些傷者，我們在傷後的後送機制，包括如何後送、救治、到哪幾間醫院、如何救治以及後送的各間醫院生理食鹽水輸出液是否足夠調用來使用、可供開刀使用的人數，以及沖洗傷口、灌洗之使用者大概有幾人？我們這些機制有沒有去建立？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。這個完全是一個假設性的問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是站在政府的立場，我們就是告訴人民，政府是有準備的，而且不只是政府，民間有很多相關團體也在做這種大規模傷害之後，包括天災地變之後的一些救助工作，這個平常在整備過程當中都有一些操演跟一些預備。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝！我想我們在探討這個問題，雖然只是假設，但是我們希望目的是引導政府能夠去重視，如果災禍發生以後，我們大量的傷患該如何救治的一個問題。但是我想問部長，部長，您是醫師，您也是兩屆全聯會的理事長，也是立法委員，經驗豐富。我想請問你幾個問題，生理食鹽水如果在沒有的情況之下，我們可以開刀嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：沒有生理食鹽水沒辦法開刀。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒有辦法開刀啦！那生理食鹽水最重要的兩個作用──補充電解質，以及最重要的是沖洗傷口，對吧？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是現在坊間生理食鹽水跟以往的缺藥，我個人認為不太一樣，最大的情況不同是，它是開刀手術必備的一個藥品，而且是戰備重要的一個藥品，面臨現在中共一直不斷地擾臺，我們擔心有可能擦槍走火，所以以目前國內生產的生理食鹽水，量已經不夠國內使用，我們還要補上進口量，才能夠因應整個國內的使用，但是一旦發生了戰爭，進口生理食鹽水進得來嗎？部長，您覺得進得來嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我想我們這個都有預防，這一次的專案進口是因為臨時永豐……因為它占的比例太多，所以除了在專案進口以外，我們已經輔導且鼓勵國內的廠商，我們給它比較合理的價碼，來自產相關的生理食鹽水。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這個我們事後再檢討，但是我要講的是，如果發生戰爭，我想沒辦法進口。我們先來探討幾個問題，為什麼不將專案進口的價格82元同樣給付國內生產來製造？我們有所謂的疫情國家隊，藥品、快篩以及之前還有新型冠狀病毒的感染用藥──羥氯奎寧都有所謂的國家隊，那為什麼現在不行？我們為什麼沒有培植國內的廠商繼續努力？"],["邱部長泰源：因為這個問題雖然很重要，但我們很快的就可以從進口、從國內原來的量能來完整這樣的一個需求……"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，我還是要講，我們不希望每次都用專案進口，我們應該培植自己相關的廠商，未來能夠因應……"],["邱部長泰源：我想只要有合理的價錢……"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，你可以認同我這樣的說法嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：合理的價錢應該廠商就會做啦！"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們一起來讓我們的國內廠商有這個能力。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長剛剛有說明，我們希望協調國內合格的廠商，能夠增加它的供貨量。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：同時對這種大包裝的輸液，也能夠儘快地恢復生產，提供給醫療機構來使用。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們不希望這是超思案的一個翻版，就像有的醫師在講，難道危機就是商機嗎？今天它是戰備藥品，我想以往蔡英文總統的態度很明顯，對於戰備、對於我們必須的這種急用藥品，國內應該要有自己生產的能力啊！為什麼現在量會不夠？本席不是危言聳聽，我不是要去讓整個社會恐慌，我是要提醒這個藥不是眾多藥品缺少的其中一小環，它是戰備用藥，它所戰備的存在價值，在戰爭時我們認為是沒辦法進口的。而且千萬不要看它這樣子，我們國內本身就有許多藥廠在製造，為什麼平時不去輔導？健保價給付的比一瓶可樂還便宜啊！對，它的原物料很便宜，鹽和水而已，但是整個製作的過程是非常嚴謹的、是無菌的狀況，而且它是塑料包裝，所以還要去人工檢查異物，這樣子嚴謹的一個過程當中，竟然比不上一瓶可樂的價格。","針對這樣的事情，我們應該請院長做以下的交代及檢討，您聽聽看。所有戰備、儲備的藥品品項中，是否有類似像永豐這樣子寡占市場的一個狀況，我們應該去盤點，我們應該需要有所對應的因應政策，到底是不是像邱部長剛剛所說的，是短期之內發生的嗎？這明明就是6個月前，我們去稽查瞭解它沒有符合規定才強制關廠，沒有符合GMP嘛！","第二個，我國原料藥所用的大部分都來自進口，其中4成來自大陸，戰備藥品它不是製劑，而是其原料在臺灣儲備是否充足，我們有沒有盤點？部長有盤點嗎？戰爭時這些進口東西是進不來的，即使我們有工廠，也無可奈何啊！所以以上兩點，院長，您可不可以跟我回應，你們是不是盤點一下，能不能在兩個月內、一個月內給我一個回應？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，包括這次永豐這家廠商占據這麼大的量，但在製程過程中發生了問題，造成整個供需失調，這個是很活生生的經驗。我想衛福部部長也清楚，520之後我們上來，我第一次請衛福部來跟我報告的就是這個事情，我一路緊追，這個一定要瞭解。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你們有資料嗎？後續提供給我，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["邱部長泰源：沒問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的缺失，是三無──無法源依據、沒有PMF的核備函，還有出狀況無理賠，這個狀況你們有掌握嗎？院長，臺灣是民主國家，所有行政單位依法行政，輸液專案進口若依法，法源依據是什麼？可以跟我分享一下嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：緊急專案進口我們從5月底就開始啟動。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以又是用緊急專案？"],["邱部長泰源：應該是緊急專案，如果需要……這個應該是依法，沒有問題。"],["羅委員廷瑋：依法沒有問題？你引用的是哪一個法？藥事法？第幾條？可以跟我分享嗎？就本席所瞭解無法源依據。請問院長，如果公布無法源依據的行政命令可以成立嗎？我認為衛福部有帶頭違法的可能性。現在只要衛福部的官員認定緊急需要就馬上視法為無物嗎？沒有法源依據，輸入沒有藥品許可證的藥品，那麼這些藥品有可能是禁藥，這是藥事法第二條第二項規定的。請問院長，如果是禁藥要怎麼處理？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，進口的過程當中，我們從5月底啟動，一直到6月12號第一批輸液才進來，這當中就對進口的國外廠商進行篩檢跟合格的認定。"],["羅委員廷瑋：待會兒我們越談越深，你聽聽看。如果未依法行政，所有核章的政府官員是不是應該主動送檢調？是不是監察院應該看看有沒有圖利的問題？還是需要本席協助呢？我們目前沒有PMF的核備函，部長，是嗎？有沒有核備函？目前核准專案輸入生理食鹽水輸注液，依據衛福部的回函摘要如下：一、沒有我國藥品的許可證。二、皆屬國際會員國。本席想用法規面請教院長，我們看一下問題，是PTT的第四個，回文說核准專案輸入的大包生理食鹽水皆屬國際組織的會員國。院長，越南哪時候是PIC/S的會員國？是會員國嗎？部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：進口的時候我們是不是有經過詳實的檢驗、查證？"],["邱部長泰源：越南這個應該是大塚的，大塚在那邊設廠。"],["羅委員廷瑋：大塚的？所以呢？你的回函告訴我全部都是會員國，越南明明就不是會員國，它是EU GMP，你怎麼用回函這樣回我？第二，根據國外藥廠工廠資料準備須知，不是會員國的藥廠一律採國外實地查廠。有沒有去查廠？部長，我認為沒有，短期之內你要進口，你沒查廠嘛！再來，根據藥事法第五十七條，你沒有核備函。有沒有核備函？哇！鴉雀無聲。院長、部長，我都有索資，可是你們沒有給我任何資料，我可以大膽篤定你沒有核備函，你沒有許可證。院長不要忘記，新聞報導連日本極東製藥的正露丸都作假騙日本政府30年，由出口國家自行認定。衛福部連做個樣子要求廠商送資料都沒有就敢相信！輸液出狀況，藥害基金沒有賠，因為你沒有許可證，我今天使用這一批輸注液，萬一出了問題怎麼辦？這是要在無菌的狀況下，是要給手術的人使用。部長，我講這些……"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，食藥署還有負責的同仁一定非常嚴謹，在合法……"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是藥害基金告訴我，沒有許可證是不理賠的，這就是問題之所在。"],["邱部長泰源：我們整個瞭解以後再跟委員說明。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，問題越來越嚴重。今天傷口或是手術要使用，這些可能都會有……包括輸注液裡面如果有熱源，受感染的危險性很高。今天如果徒增不必要的傷害，院長，我們該怎麼應對？後續要怎麼救濟？既然論述是對的，食藥署怎麼可以准沒有許可證、沒有查廠、沒有PMF核備函的輸液進口？到時候如果有人受傷害，後續要求償，我想請問一下，沒有許可證，藥害基金不賠償的情況之下，是要國賠，還是核准專案進口的公務員理賠？請回答我。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，不管是專案進口或製造，我們在藥事法上都有一些特別措施的規定。本件我說從5月底到6月12號將近半個多月的時間當中，我們一直在催，包括衛福部、食藥署來的報告，一個是配合進口的船期，一個是配合尋找合格的廠商，能夠提供這些資料，在這個過程當中，我會請衛福部再詳細的瞭解，當初是用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，我想這件事不要開玩笑……"],["邱部長泰源：應該是要符合藥事法……"],["羅委員廷瑋：三無啊！今天我所舉出來的東西三無啊！沒有法源依據真的是非常非常的重要，沒有許可函、核備函，什麼都沒有！我想這個問題後續我們再繼續來檢討。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，我所提出的問題，今天我們不是吹毛求疵，我們在幫政府想後續會遇到的因應問題，你可以認同嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：瞭解，謝謝委員。"],["羅委員廷瑋：接下來我想請問下一個問題，一直以來癌症都位於十大死因之首，並且已經蟬聯十大死因之首41年了，我想每一個人都有可能罹癌，現在我們的政府，尤其賴清德總統說，我們要面對癌症與癌症基金相關的措施，我想立意良善，我們一起來面對。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是肺癌現在為癌症死因之首，我們希望能夠降低肺癌篩檢的年齡，請問肺癌篩檢的年齡能不能改成男性五十歲以上、女性四十五歲以上，不用條件？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，謝謝你關心肺癌，肺癌在我們目前的規範之下的確找出了相當有意義的一些陽性，我想這也拯救了一個人的生命和他的家庭。"],["羅委員廷瑋：沒關係，部長，你可不可以直接回答我？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現在請專家在研究，看怎麼樣來擴大……"],["羅委員廷瑋：希望能夠降低肺癌篩檢的年齡條件，再來就是男性五十歲以上、女性四十五歲以上，符合家族史、抽菸史，每兩年一次LDCT的檢查，我想這部分是我們的訴求，包括乳癌也是，我們都希望能夠降低年齡層。","再來我要跟大家談五個癌症，除了肺癌、乳癌以外，另外還有三個癌症──子宮頸癌、大腸癌、口腔癌，這些癌症的篩檢年齡下降，請問目前規劃得如何？什麼時候辦理？部長。"],["邱部長泰源：現在都在研議當中。"],["羅委員廷瑋：期程表有沒有出來？什麼時候辦理這些癌症篩檢年齡下降的相關期程表？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，現在都一直在研議，國民健康署一直在研議擴大篩檢年齡下降的範圍。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我希望有更明確的數字出來。另外公費癌症篩檢新增胃癌是否如期在10月上路？這些後續資料，你再提供給我，我希望能夠有更縝密的……"],["邱部長泰源：好，這我們的確討論過。"],["羅委員廷瑋：拖一天就多一分我們國人罹癌的可能性，造成很不必要的傷害，我們任何人都不希望，希望衛福部要重視這件事情。"],["邱部長泰源：這個我們有在討論，再跟委員報告。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我覺得對於這種預防性的檢查行為，在國家能力可及的範圍內，都應該全面的檢討。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，我們一起來加油。所以你可以認同我的說法，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。","陳培瑜及林月琴委員之質詢，均以書面提出，請行政院以書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員陳培瑜書面質詢：","今年為兒少公約施行法制定十周年，在七月二日本席於院會教育文化組織質詢中，初步詢問卓榮泰院長有關行政院兒少權法修正草案進度時，卓院長略以目前行政院有關兒少權法之修法討論將側重「疏忽照顧、身體精神暴力、性剝削等權益維護」等面向，並準備啟動第二階段研商機制作為回應。","然查目前兒少權法之施行，非僅就上述面向有修正之必要，攸關兒少權益之裁罰對象公告、裁罰程序中司法與社政調查之競合問題，均在實務上已造成諸多兒少保護上之空窗或盲區。以本席最近一年與衛福部、教育部、法務部針對兒少權法通報裁罰機制改善問題，以及縣市政府漏填、下架裁罰資訊等狀況，均可見兒少權法之通盤檢討修正確有其必要。","同時，有關更進步之兒少保護機制，如兒少工作證等經諸多委員於院會共同倡議之設計，亦須透過修法方能使相關規畫得以落實並輔以罰則。鑑此，請行政院具體回應下列議題：","一、兒少權法修正之預估期程，以及預計經行政院院會審議送入立法院之時間點。","二、除前述卓院長回應部分外，院版兒少權法納入如兒少工作證、裁罰通報機制與司法系統之資訊對接等面向之可行性。","三、針對近期新竹營隊負責人性侵學員卻能持續招生，暴露出現行社政與教育法規中針對營隊與社區運動俱樂部存在有管制盲點，以及現有之兒少權法裁罰系統、不適任教師系統僅限於行政機關、機構及學校勾稽查詢，無法提供家長查詢之狀況，行政院之具體應對措施。"],["委員林月琴書面質詢：","質詢一：護理師工資提升，要政府直接給付（指定用途，代收代付）才有效","1.護理師的工資較在醫療保健整體而言偏低，很需要直接調高薪資或發給津貼來提高收入。","2.但是，長期以來護理師薪資幾乎都由政府在主導調薪，包括夜班獎勵、繁重加給，都是由衛福部在主導。甚至104年起推動護病比與健保支付連動，實施的結果也是降低護病比有效，護理師加薪無效（註1）。","3.數據顯示，過去護理人員的薪資提升的原因比較是因為受到基本工資調漲的影響而連動，透過健保支付去鼓勵調薪的效果有限（註2）。","註：","1.自104年推動：護病比與健保支付連動，要降低護病比，並提升護理人員薪資。但104年至107年護理人員的薪資，沒有大幅度的調升。","2.108年增加挹注10億，其中6.3億用作為調整護病比的獎勵；3.7億用來補助病房護理費，自108年至113年薪資確有成長趨勢，但薪資調升的理由極可能是因為基本工資調漲造成院方的壓力。","1.原因出在，醫院收入跟支付是兩個不相關的程序。所以政府要幫護理人員加薪的錢若沒有指定用途，或是規定代收代付，便沒辦法保證護理人員真的收到（註3）。","2.因為這個原因，像是夜班鼓勵金、繁重加給，就會是相對有效的加薪方式。請衛福部持續推動。","3.另外，本席多次依據社工、長照人員加薪的經驗提出：從政府要支付給醫院的錢裡面，劃出一定比例，特定用來支付醫事人員的薪資，這個作法，請衛福部採用。","註：","3.醫院的收入大致來自醫療勞務收入（免稅）與非醫療勞務收入（營業稅）。","(1)醫療勞務收入，包括：所有因醫療行為的收入。收入來源有三個：健保支付收入、健保部分負擔收入（含掛號費）、自費收入。","(2)非醫療勞務收入，包括：租金收入（房舍、攤商）、醫療周邊商品收入（血壓計、尿布、衛生棉等一切商品）。","(3)轉投資收入不計入醫院的非醫療勞務收入，因為在稅務上會成立另一間公司，為獨立的事業單位。","所有的收入進入財務大水缸，再依用途自水缸支出。其項目有：","(1)人力成本支出：薪資報酬。","(2)營運成本：各項營運支出。","(3)稅務支出：營業稅。","質詢二：醫院自費收入應受管理，並劃定比例設為醫事人員薪資支出","1.現行醫院的自費項目幾乎不被管理，心律不整開刀健保支付19萬，自費21萬；攝護腺肥大開刀健保支付9萬，自費16萬；白內障開刀健保支付3萬，自費3萬。自費是一塊很大的收益，這個全數利益歸法人所有。這是不合理的，應該呈現在薪資上與所有的醫事人員共享。","2.因此，醫院自費收入應列入管理，設定點值並將30%用為醫事人員薪資給付，請衛福部採用。","質詢三、公立醫院、校護之公務人員專業加給要合理","1.為「完善公立醫療機構及公立學校各類醫事人員合理之專業加給」事，本席前於3月29日假本院會議事召集行政院人事行政總處、衛生福利部醫事司、銓敘部銓審司與各大醫事團體全國聯合會召開協調會。會中達成協議：衛生福利部參酌人事行政總處意見先行蒐集醫事人員團體之意見，擬定審酌意見，於3個月內提報送行政院，並請行政院開啟增加專業加給之預算編列作業（包括「其他專業技術人員」與「公立醫院、公立學校」、以及「各類醫事人員」加給之差異並辦理）。","2.衛生福利部於6月7日完成前述呈報　大院之作業，今等待人事行政總處對民間團體作出善意的具體回應。請　大院督導該處編列預算自2025年起開始調整（註4）。","註：","4.加給數額合理調整須顧及兩個層面：","(1)公立醫院與校護應一致。","(2)包括公立醫院與校護之醫事人員，加給數額要整體提升；並拉近與其他公務人員職類之差距，逐步達到一致。","質詢四：凱凱案後續家外兒虐現行政策檢討","1.今年三月發生舉國震驚保母虐童致死案，也讓全國國人關注保母照顧品質如何把關。我身為保母種子教師，我相信絕大部分保母都是具備愛心、信心、耐心，但的確會有一些個案必須透過政策端防範於未然。","2.我要求衛福部針對保母、訪視訓練員訓練端，師資、課程必須要重新檢討，包含：師資應該要具備專業資格，此外教材針對兒虐樣態應該要有定期更新，提供最新兒虐情況讓保母、訪視員可以清楚辨認。另外，保母課程與托嬰中心托育人員課程內容應分開上課，因為保母跟機構式的照顧不同；還有保母在職訓練每三年應調整課程大綱，而不是重複修習前三年已上過的課程內容，例如「照顧安全」總是安排基本救命術或消防逃生等課程，在在缺乏兒虐知能或危機處理能力。","3.訪視員功能是抓出違法保母，除了兒虐，還有許多包含超收、空間環境不符合規定等，這些除了教材提供，更重要必須透過有經驗、有系統傳承，才能達到訪視員訪視效果。","4.目前各縣市訪視成果後處置標準不一，有記點、警告等，但如何真正遏止違法保母執業，應該要有統一標準，累犯如何直接拔除資格或是停業，應該中央要有統一規範。","質詢五：托嬰中心品質改善、提升勞動條件","1.近期衛福部推動托育師生比要降為1：4，但搭配托育專法仍然未見行政院版本，令人憂心是否只是空談，此外，未來師生比從1：5降為1：4，衛福部把關機制為何？","2.政府雖然有提供準公共化托嬰中心優化獎助，但本辦近期收到托育人員陳情，業者未將從政府端收到優化補助反映在托育人員薪資與獎補助，請中央務必針對獎補助預算進行查核，除了資料查核並增加實地考核，避免不肖業者私吞，罔顧第一線托育人員權益。","3.托嬰中心設施仍有許多地方不符合相關安全規範，有些事既有校舍改建，並沒有達到合格標準就匆匆營業，針對未來衛福部編列硬體改善預算，應先進行全面盤點不合格場所，並提出階段性改善計劃，預算逐一編列到位並配合專業人員檢查改善後成果，以利達到提供嬰幼兒、托育人員安全之環境。"],["主席：下一位請游顥委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-21","speakers":["江啟臣","王定宇","黃國昌","羅明才","吳琪銘","葉元之","邱若華","楊曜","羅智強","黃健豪","盧縣一","蘇清泉","林國成","李昆澤","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","林月琴","游顥","王正旭","林淑芬","涂權吉"],"page_start":93,"meetingDate":["2024-07-09"],"gazette_id":"1136601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136601_00005","1136601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 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419.861, \"end\": 422.884, \"text\": \"接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的一個缺失。三無\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 419.861, \"end\": 420.041, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 420.041, \"end\": 420.161, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 420.161, \"end\": 420.902, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 420.902, \"end\": 421.022, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 421.022, \"end\": 421.122, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 421.122, \"end\": 421.202, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 421.202, \"end\": 421.262, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 421.262, \"end\": 421.382, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 421.382, \"end\": 421.562, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 421.562, \"end\": 421.843, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 421.843, \"end\": 422.043, \"score\": 0.9}, 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\"text\": \"蘇易出狀況藥害基金沒有賠因為你沒有許可證阿我今天使用這一批蘇助益萬一我出了問題這是要無菌的狀況下這個是要給手術的人使用\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 651.275, \"end\": 651.415, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 651.415, \"end\": 651.596, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 651.596, \"end\": 652.937, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 652.937, \"end\": 653.057, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 653.057, \"end\": 653.178, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 653.178, \"end\": 653.298, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 653.298, \"end\": 654.199, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"賠\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 654.199, \"end\": 654.339, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 654.339, \"end\": 654.439, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 654.439, \"end\": 654.559, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 654.559, \"end\": 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\"那到時候如果今天有人受了傷害後續要求償我想詢問一下沒有許可證要害基金不賠償的情況之下是要國賠還是核准專案進口的公務員來理賠請回答我報告委員這個不管是專案的進口或是製造專案的進口或製藥製造我們在醫藥事法上面都有一些特別的這個措施的規定那本件\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 713.749, \"end\": 713.889, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 713.889, \"end\": 714.149, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 714.149, \"end\": 714.35, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 714.35, \"end\": 714.63, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 714.63, \"end\": 714.89, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 714.89, \"end\": 715.09, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 715.09, \"end\": 715.33, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 715.33, \"end\": 715.55, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 715.55, \"end\": 715.931, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 715.931, \"end\": 716.111, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 716.111, \"end\": 716.451, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"傷\"}, {\"word\": 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\"我說從5月底到6月12號這個將近半個多月的時間當中我們一直在吹包括衛福部包括食藥署來的報告就是一個是配合進口的傳奇一個就是配合尋找合格的廠商能夠提供這些資料那這個過程當中我請衛福部再詳細的了解當初用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 738.189, \"end\": 738.87, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 738.87, \"end\": 739.09, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 739.09, \"end\": 739.23, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 739.23, \"end\": 739.45, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 739.45, \"end\": 740.571, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 740.571, \"end\": 740.771, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 740.771, \"end\": 741.011, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 741.011, \"end\": 741.151, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 741.151, \"end\": 741.271, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 744.333, \"end\": 744.434, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 744.434, \"end\": 744.754, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 744.754, \"end\": 745.074, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 745.074, \"end\": 745.414, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 745.414, \"end\": 745.674, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 745.674, \"end\": 745.815, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 745.815, \"end\": 745.935, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 745.935, \"end\": 746.235, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 746.235, \"end\": 746.375, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 746.375, \"end\": 746.575, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 746.575, \"end\": 747.276, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 747.276, \"end\": 747.436, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 747.436, \"end\": 747.816, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"奇\", \"start\": 747.816, \"end\": 748.256, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 748.256, \"end\": 748.516, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 748.516, \"end\": 748.596, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 748.596, \"end\": 748.717, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 748.717, \"end\": 748.877, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 748.877, \"end\": 749.597, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"尋\"}, {\"word\": \"找\", \"start\": 749.597, \"end\": 749.777, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 749.777, \"end\": 749.937, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"格\", \"start\": 749.937, \"end\": 750.058, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 750.058, \"end\": 750.398, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 750.398, \"end\": 750.658, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"能\", 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944.423, \"end\": 944.803, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 944.803, \"end\": 950.972, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"培\", \"start\": 950.972, \"end\": 951.213, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"宇\", \"start\": 951.213, \"end\": 951.774, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 951.774, \"end\": 952.254, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 952.254, \"end\": 952.495, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 952.495, \"end\": 952.855, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"琴\", \"start\": 952.855, \"end\": 953.176, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 953.176, \"end\": 953.196, \"score\": 0.03}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,294 --> 00:00:17,368\n好,謝謝主席。有請卓院長以及邱部長。卓院長、邱部長請背刑。院長,你要喝個水嗎?我可以等你。\n\n2\n00:00:28,329 --> 00:00:57,235\n謝謝委員好院長解放軍戰機最近四面環台的天數跟次數是越來越高我們六月還為了解放軍海軍曾經擔任過廷長的男子駕駛小艇駛入到淡水河口政府也承認反應過慢為時已晚院長兩岸關係是越演越烈越來越緊張今天我想我們積極的要備戰我們也努力的避戰我想這是政府應該有的態度對吧\n\n3\n00:00:58,015 --> 00:01:15,069\n我們一向認為備戰才能避戰,能戰才能止戰。是的,所以我覺得積極的備戰也是我們很重要的一個方針。今天我有一個狀況,我想我們一起來探討備戰相關事後的一個檢討。今天假設蘇澳港、高雄港、淡水港突然被解放軍炸彈襲擊。\n\n4\n00:01:16,590 --> 00:01:41,926\n那造成的蘇澳呢300人受傷那高雄1000人受傷淡水500人受傷我想請問一下院長這些傷者我們在傷後的一個後送機制包括如何後送救治到哪幾間醫院如何救治以及後送的各間醫院生理實驗水素注意是否足夠調用來使用可供開刀的使用的人數\n\n5\n00:01:42,907 --> 00:01:49,535\n以及沖洗傷口盥洗之使用者大概有幾人,我們這些機制有沒有去建立?\n\n6\n00:01:51,202 --> 00:02:13,140\n謝謝委員這個完全是一個假設性的問題但是坐在政府的立場我們就是告訴人民說政府是有準備的而且不只是政府民間有很多的相關的團體他們也在做這種大規模傷害之後包括天災地變之後的一些救助的工作那這個都平常在準備過程當中都有一些操演跟一些預備\n\n7\n00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:39,470\n好謝謝我想我們在探討這個問題雖然只是假設但是我們希望目的是引導我們的政府能夠去重視我們如果災後發生以後我們大量的傷患該如何救治的一個問題但是我想問部長部長您是醫師您也是全聯會的兩屆的一個全聯會理事長也是立法委員我想經驗豐富我想請問你幾個問題生理食鹽水如果在沒有的情況之下我們可以開刀嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:40,626 --> 00:03:00,837\n沒有生理食鹽水沒辦法開刀沒辦法開刀啦齁那生理食鹽水最重要的兩個作用我想補充電解質以及最重要就是沖洗傷口對吧但是呢現在坊間啦我們生理食鹽水跟以往的缺藥我個人認為不太一樣最大的情況不同是它是開刀手術必備的一個藥品而且是\n\n9\n00:03:01,237 --> 00:03:01,957\n部長,您覺得進得來嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:26,431 --> 00:03:26,511\n﹚董事長\n\n11\n00:03:42,074 --> 00:04:10,519\n合理的價碼來自己產相關的生理食塩水這個是我們事後再檢討啦但是我要講的是如果發生戰爭我想沒辦法進口啦那我們先來探討幾個問題為什麼不將專案進口的價格82元同樣擠附國內生產來製造我們有所謂的疫情國家隊嘛藥品、快篩以及之前還有新型冠狀病毒的感染用藥我們的搶滅、奎寧都有所謂的國家隊那為什麼現在不行\n\n12\n00:04:12,329 --> 00:04:12,669\n部長我還是要講齁\n\n13\n00:04:32,515 --> 00:04:42,028\n我們不希望每次都用專案進口,我們應該培植自己的相關的廠商,未來能夠...我想只要有合理的價錢應該廠商就會做啦。我們一起來讓我們的國內廠商有這個能力。我們希望協調國內合格的廠商,能夠增加他的供貨量。\n\n14\n00:04:50,078 --> 00:05:04,394\n同時對這種大包裝的輸液也能夠盡快的恢復生產提供給疫苗機構來使用我們不希望這是超思案的一個翻版我想就像有的醫師在講難道危機就是商機嗎那今天他是戰備藥品\n\n15\n00:05:05,996 --> 00:05:29,317\n我想以往蔡英文總統所說的一個態度很明顯對於戰備對於我們必須的這種急用藥品我們國內應該要有自己生產的一個能力那為什麼現在量會不夠本席不是危言聳聽我不是要去讓整個社會恐慌我是要提醒這個藥它不是眾多藥品缺少的其中一小環它是戰備用藥它所戰備的存在價值戰爭時我們認為是沒辦法進口的\n\n16\n00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:57,410\n而且千萬不要看他這樣子啊我國內本身就有許多藥廠在製造為什麼平時不去輔導健保價給付的比一瓶可樂還便宜啊對他的原物料很便宜鹽和水而已但是整個製作的過程是非常嚴謹的是無菌的狀況而且他是塑料包裝所以還要去人工檢查異物這樣子嚴謹的一個過程當中我想竟然比不上一瓶可樂的價格\n\n17\n00:05:58,590 --> 00:06:21,086\n我想針對這樣的事情我們應該請院長做以下的交代以及做檢討您聽聽看所有戰備儲備的一個藥品品項中是否有類似像永豐這樣子寡占市場的一個狀況我們應該去盤點我們應該需要有所對應的因應政策到底是不是像邱部長剛剛所說的是短期之內發生的嗎\n\n18\n00:06:22,006 --> 00:06:39,997\n這明明就是6個月前我們去稽查瞭解他沒有符合規定才強制官場沒有符合GMP嗎?第二個我國原料藥所用的大部分都來自進口其中4成來自大陸戰備藥品他不是自製捏\n\n19\n00:06:41,098 --> 00:06:57,915\n原本而是其原料在臺灣儲備是否充足我們有沒有盤點?部長有盤點嗎?戰爭時這些進口東西是進不來的那即使我們有工廠也無可奈何啊所以以上兩點院長您可不可以跟我回應我們是不是盤點一下能不能在兩個月內一個月內給我一個回應\n\n20\n00:06:59,861 --> 00:07:02,884\n接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的一個缺失。三無\n\n21\n00:07:28,504 --> 00:07:46,375\n無法源依據沒有PMF的核備函還有出狀況無理賠這狀況你們有掌握嗎?院長台灣是民主國家我們所有行政單位依法行政請問蘇義專案進口我們的依法法源依據是什麼?可以跟我分享一下嗎?請說緊急的專案進口我們從5月底就開始啟動了\n\n22\n00:07:50,399 --> 00:08:08,371\n所以又是用緊急專案?應該這個緊急專案如果需要,這個應該是依法的沒有問題啊。依法沒有問題?你引用的是哪一個法?要事法?第幾條?可以跟我分享嗎?就本席所了解,無法源依據。\n\n23\n00:08:10,065 --> 00:08:30,231\n請問院長如果公布無法源依據的行政命令可以成立嗎?我認為衛福部有帶頭違法的可能性所以現在是只要衛福部官員認定我緊急需要我就馬上釋法為無誤嗎?沒有法源依據所有藥品許可證藥品輸入那麼這些藥品有可能就是禁藥這是藥事法第二條第二項規定的\n\n24\n00:08:32,051 --> 00:08:42,740\n請問院長如果是經邀怎麼處理?不會我覺得這個進口的過程當中我們從5月底啟動一直到6月12號第一批的輸入才進來這當中就對這個進口的國外廠商有進過一些篩檢\n\n25\n00:08:48,705 --> 00:09:05,405\n待會我們越談越深喔,你聽聽看,如果為依法行政所有合章的政府官員,我們是不是應該主動送檢調,是不是監察院應該要看看有沒有所圖利的問題,還是需要本席來協助呢?我們目前沒有PMF何備函,部長,是嗎?有沒有何備函?\n\n26\n00:09:07,659 --> 00:09:36,180\n目前核准專案輸入生理食鹽水輸入注意依據衛福部的回函摘要如下一、沒有我國藥品的許可證二、接屬國際會員國本席就想用法規面請教院長我們看一下問題PTT第4個回文說核准專案輸入的大包生理食鹽水接屬國際組織的會員國院長越南哪時候是PASS的那個會員國\n\n27\n00:09:39,028 --> 00:09:54,485\n是會員國嗎?部長。越南這個是大總的。大總的,所以呢你的回函是告訴我全部都會員國啊。越南明明就不是會員國,它是EUGMP捏。\n\n28\n00:09:58,254 --> 00:10:19,939\n那你怎麼回函這樣回我第二根據國外藥廠的工廠資料準備須知啊不是會員國的藥廠一律採國外實地茶廠有沒有去茶廠部長我認為沒有短期之內你要進口你沒茶廠嗎再來根據藥食法第57條你沒有核備函有沒有核備函哇鴨雀無聲啊院長部長\n\n29\n00:10:28,305 --> 00:10:49,839\n我都有所知啊沒有給我任何的資料我可以大膽的篤定你沒有核備函你沒有許可證院長不要忘記連日本日本吉東製藥的證錄完新聞報導做假騙日本政府30年由出口國家自行認定衛福部連做個樣子要求廠商送個資料都沒有你就敢相信\n\n30\n00:10:51,275 --> 00:11:04,731\n蘇易出狀況藥害基金沒有賠因為你沒有許可證阿我今天使用這一批蘇助益萬一我出了問題這是要無菌的狀況下這個是要給手術的人使用\n\n31\n00:11:06,684 --> 00:11:09,348\n部長,我講之前的問題...但是藥害基金告訴我沒有許可證是不理賠的喔,這就是問題所在。\n\n32\n00:11:24,527 --> 00:11:52,122\n問題越來越嚴重今天傷口或者是要做手術使用這些有可能都會有整個裡面包括輸注液裡面如果有熱源他會顯示讓整個在受感染的一個危險性很高所以今天如果塗針的不必要的傷害院長我們該怎麼去應對後續要怎麼救濟既然論述是對的食藥署怎麼可以准沒有許可證沒有茶場沒有PMF的核准核備含就可以進口\n\n33\n00:11:53,749 --> 00:12:17,669\n那到時候如果今天有人受了傷害後續要求償我想詢問一下沒有許可證要害基金不賠償的情況之下是要國賠還是核准專案進口的公務員來理賠請回答我報告委員這個不管是專案的進口或是製造專案的進口或製藥製造我們在醫藥事法上面都有一些特別的這個措施的規定那本件\n\n34\n00:12:18,189 --> 00:12:38,503\n我說從5月底到6月12號這個將近半個多月的時間當中我們一直在吹包括衛福部包括食藥署來的報告就是一個是配合進口的傳奇一個就是配合尋找合格的廠商能夠提供這些資料那這個過程當中我請衛福部再詳細的了解當初用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源\n\n35\n00:12:39,344 --> 00:12:39,885\n接下來我想請問下一個問題\n\n36\n00:13:08,732 --> 00:13:20,674\n我們要求癌症篩檢一直以來十大死因癌症是十大死因之首癌症已經纏連十大死因41年我想每一個人都有可能罹癌\n\n37\n00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:22,100\n部長報告委員\n\n38\n00:13:51,220 --> 00:13:52,501\n肺癌能夠年齡下降篩檢的一個條件\n\n39\n00:14:17,143 --> 00:14:40,512\n再來就是所謂的男性50歲以下女性45歲以下符合家族史抽菸史每兩年一次LDCT的檢查我想這個部分是我們的訴求包括乳癌也是我們都希望能夠年齡層下降再來我要跟大家談我們談的肺癌跟乳癌五個癌症以外另外三個癌子宮頸癌大腸癌口腔癌篩檢年齡下降請問目前規劃如何什麼時候辦理\n\n40\n00:14:42,762 --> 00:14:45,663\n公費癌症篩檢新增胃癌是否如期10月上路?胃癌?對公費癌症篩檢胃癌\n\n41\n00:15:13,561 --> 00:15:15,763\n好,我們一起來加油,所以你可以認同我的說法,是嗎?\n\n42\n00:15:44,423 --> 00:15:53,196\n好,謝謝羅委員陳培宇及林月琴委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5294\t17368\t好,謝謝主席。有請卓院長以及邱部長。卓院長、邱部長請背刑。院長,你要喝個水嗎?我可以等你。\n28329\t57235\t謝謝委員好 院長解放軍戰機最近四面環台的天數跟次數是越來越高我們六月還為了解放軍海軍曾經擔任過廷長的男子駕駛小艇駛入到淡水河口政府也承認反應過慢為時已晚院長兩岸關係是越演越烈越來越緊張今天我想我們積極的要備戰我們也努力的避戰我想這是政府應該有的態度對吧\n58015\t75069\t我們一向認為備戰才能避戰,能戰才能止戰。是的,所以我覺得積極的備戰也是我們很重要的一個方針。今天我有一個狀況,我想我們一起來探討備戰相關事後的一個檢討。今天假設蘇澳港、高雄港、淡水港突然被解放軍炸彈襲擊。\n76590\t101926\t那造成的蘇澳呢300人受傷那高雄1000人受傷淡水500人受傷我想請問一下院長這些傷者我們在傷後的一個後送機制包括如何後送救治到哪幾間醫院如何救治以及後送的各間醫院生理實驗水素注意是否足夠調用來使用可供開刀的使用的人數\n102907\t109535\t以及沖洗傷口盥洗之使用者大概有幾人,我們這些機制有沒有去建立?\n111202\t133140\t謝謝委員 這個完全是一個假設性的問題但是坐在政府的立場我們就是告訴人民說政府是有準備的而且不只是政府民間有很多的相關的團體他們也在做這種大規模傷害之後包括天災地變之後的一些救助的工作那這個都平常在準備過程當中都有一些操演跟一些預備\n133800\t159470\t好 謝謝我想我們在探討這個問題雖然只是假設但是我們希望目的是引導我們的政府能夠去重視我們如果災後發生以後我們大量的傷患該如何救治的一個問題但是我想問部長部長您是醫師您也是全聯會的兩屆的一個全聯會理事長也是立法委員我想經驗豐富我想請問你幾個問題生理食鹽水如果在沒有的情況之下我們可以開刀嗎?\n160626\t180837\t沒有生理食鹽水沒辦法開刀沒辦法開刀啦齁那生理食鹽水最重要的兩個作用我想補充電解質以及最重要就是沖洗傷口對吧但是呢現在坊間啦我們生理食鹽水跟以往的缺藥我個人認為不太一樣最大的情況不同是它是開刀手術必備的一個藥品而且是\n181237\t181957\t部長,您覺得進得來嗎?\n206431\t206511\t﹚董事長\n222074\t250519\t合理的價碼來自己產相關的生理食塩水這個是我們事後再檢討啦但是我要講的是如果發生戰爭我想沒辦法進口啦那我們先來探討幾個問題為什麼不將專案進口的價格82元同樣擠附國內生產來製造我們有所謂的疫情國家隊嘛藥品、快篩以及之前還有新型冠狀病毒的感染用藥我們的搶滅、奎寧都有所謂的國家隊那為什麼現在不行\n252329\t252669\t部長我還是要講齁\n272515\t282028\t我們不希望每次都用專案進口,我們應該培植自己的相關的廠商,未來能夠...我想只要有合理的價錢應該廠商就會做啦。我們一起來讓我們的國內廠商有這個能力。我們希望協調國內合格的廠商,能夠增加他的供貨量。\n290078\t304394\t同時對這種大包裝的輸液也能夠盡快的恢復生產提供給疫苗機構來使用我們不希望這是超思案的一個翻版我想就像有的醫師在講難道危機就是商機嗎那今天他是戰備藥品\n305996\t329317\t我想以往蔡英文總統所說的一個態度很明顯對於戰備對於我們必須的這種急用藥品我們國內應該要有自己生產的一個能力那為什麼現在量會不夠本席不是危言聳聽我不是要去讓整個社會恐慌我是要提醒這個藥它不是眾多藥品缺少的其中一小環它是戰備用藥它所戰備的存在價值戰爭時我們認為是沒辦法進口的\n333280\t357410\t而且千萬不要看他這樣子啊我國內本身就有許多藥廠在製造為什麼平時不去輔導健保價給付的比一瓶可樂還便宜啊對他的原物料很便宜鹽和水而已但是整個製作的過程是非常嚴謹的是無菌的狀況而且他是塑料包裝所以還要去人工檢查異物這樣子嚴謹的一個過程當中我想竟然比不上一瓶可樂的價格\n358590\t381086\t我想針對這樣的事情我們應該請院長做以下的交代以及做檢討您聽聽看所有戰備儲備的一個藥品品項中是否有類似像永豐這樣子寡占市場的一個狀況我們應該去盤點我們應該需要有所對應的因應政策到底是不是像邱部長剛剛所說的是短期之內發生的嗎\n382006\t399997\t這明明就是6個月前我們去稽查瞭解他沒有符合規定才強制官場沒有符合GMP嗎?第二個我國原料藥所用的大部分都來自進口其中4成來自大陸戰備藥品他不是自製捏\n401098\t417915\t原本而是其原料在臺灣儲備是否充足我們有沒有盤點?部長有盤點嗎?戰爭時這些進口東西是進不來的那即使我們有工廠也無可奈何啊所以以上兩點院長您可不可以跟我回應我們是不是盤點一下能不能在兩個月內一個月內給我一個回應\n419861\t422884\t接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的一個缺失。三無\n448504\t466375\t無法源依據沒有PMF的核備函還有出狀況無理賠這狀況你們有掌握嗎?院長台灣是民主國家我們所有行政單位依法行政請問蘇義專案進口我們的依法法源依據是什麼?可以跟我分享一下嗎?請說緊急的專案進口我們從5月底就開始啟動了\n470399\t488371\t所以又是用緊急專案?應該這個緊急專案如果需要,這個應該是依法的沒有問題啊。依法沒有問題?你引用的是哪一個法?要事法?第幾條?可以跟我分享嗎?就本席所了解,無法源依據。\n490065\t510231\t請問院長如果公布無法源依據的行政命令可以成立嗎?我認為衛福部有帶頭違法的可能性所以現在是只要衛福部官員認定我緊急需要我就馬上釋法為無誤嗎?沒有法源依據所有藥品許可證藥品輸入那麼這些藥品有可能就是禁藥這是藥事法第二條第二項規定的\n512051\t522740\t請問院長如果是經邀怎麼處理?不會我覺得這個進口的過程當中我們從5月底啟動一直到6月12號第一批的輸入才進來這當中就對這個進口的國外廠商有進過一些篩檢\n528705\t545405\t待會我們越談越深喔,你聽聽看,如果為依法行政所有合章的政府官員,我們是不是應該主動送檢調,是不是監察院應該要看看有沒有所圖利的問題,還是需要本席來協助呢?我們目前沒有PMF何備函,部長,是嗎?有沒有何備函?\n547659\t576180\t目前核准專案輸入生理食鹽水輸入注意依據衛福部的回函摘要如下一、沒有我國藥品的許可證二、接屬國際會員國本席就想用法規面請教院長我們看一下問題PTT第4個回文說核准專案輸入的大包生理食鹽水接屬國際組織的會員國院長越南哪時候是PASS的那個會員國\n579028\t594485\t是會員國嗎?部長。越南這個是大總的。大總的,所以呢你的回函是告訴我全部都會員國啊。越南明明就不是會員國,它是EU GMP捏。\n598254\t619939\t那你怎麼回函這樣回我第二根據國外藥廠的工廠資料準備須知啊不是會員國的藥廠一律採國外實地茶廠有沒有去茶廠部長我認為沒有短期之內你要進口你沒茶廠嗎再來根據藥食法第57條你沒有核備函有沒有核備函哇鴨雀無聲啊院長部長\n628305\t649839\t我都有所知啊沒有給我任何的資料我可以大膽的篤定你沒有核備函你沒有許可證院長不要忘記連日本日本吉東製藥的證錄完新聞報導做假騙日本政府30年由出口國家自行認定衛福部連做個樣子要求廠商送個資料都沒有你就敢相信\n651275\t664731\t蘇易出狀況藥害基金沒有賠因為你沒有許可證阿我今天使用這一批蘇助益萬一我出了問題這是要無菌的狀況下這個是要給手術的人使用\n666684\t669348\t部長,我講之前的問題...但是藥害基金告訴我沒有許可證是不理賠的喔,這就是問題所在。\n684527\t712122\t問題越來越嚴重今天傷口或者是要做手術使用這些有可能都會有整個裡面包括輸注液裡面如果有熱源他會顯示讓整個在受感染的一個危險性很高所以今天如果塗針的不必要的傷害院長我們該怎麼去應對後續要怎麼救濟既然論述是對的食藥署怎麼可以准沒有許可證沒有茶場沒有PMF的核准核備含就可以進口\n713749\t737669\t那到時候如果今天有人受了傷害後續要求償我想詢問一下沒有許可證要害基金不賠償的情況之下是要國賠還是核准專案進口的公務員來理賠請回答我報告委員這個不管是專案的進口或是製造專案的進口或製藥製造我們在醫藥事法上面都有一些特別的這個措施的規定那本件\n738189\t758503\t我說從5月底到6月12號這個將近半個多月的時間當中我們一直在吹包括衛福部包括食藥署來的報告就是一個是配合進口的傳奇一個就是配合尋找合格的廠商能夠提供這些資料那這個過程當中我請衛福部再詳細的了解當初用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源\n759344\t759885\t接下來我想請問下一個問題\n788732\t800674\t我們要求癌症篩檢一直以來十大死因癌症是十大死因之首癌症已經纏連十大死因41年我想每一個人都有可能罹癌\n801920\t802100\t部長 報告委員\n831220\t832501\t肺癌能夠年齡下降篩檢的一個條件\n857143\t880512\t再來就是所謂的男性50歲以下女性45歲以下符合家族史抽菸史每兩年一次LDCT的檢查我想這個部分是我們的訴求包括乳癌也是我們都希望能夠年齡層下降再來我要跟大家談我們談的肺癌跟乳癌五個癌症以外另外三個癌子宮頸癌大腸癌口腔癌篩檢年齡下降請問目前規劃如何什麼時候辦理\n882762\t885663\t公費癌症篩檢新增胃癌是否如期10月上路?胃癌?對公費癌症篩檢胃癌\n913561\t915763\t好,我們一起來加油,所以你可以認同我的說法,是嗎?\n944423\t953196\t好,謝謝羅委員陳培宇及林月琴委員\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。有請卓院長以及邱部長。卓院長、邱部長請背刑。院長,你要喝個水嗎?我可以等你。\n謝謝委員好 院長解放軍戰機最近四面環台的天數跟次數是越來越高我們六月還為了解放軍海軍曾經擔任過廷長的男子駕駛小艇駛入到淡水河口政府也承認反應過慢為時已晚院長兩岸關係是越演越烈越來越緊張今天我想我們積極的要備戰我們也努力的避戰我想這是政府應該有的態度對吧\n我們一向認為備戰才能避戰,能戰才能止戰。是的,所以我覺得積極的備戰也是我們很重要的一個方針。今天我有一個狀況,我想我們一起來探討備戰相關事後的一個檢討。今天假設蘇澳港、高雄港、淡水港突然被解放軍炸彈襲擊。\n那造成的蘇澳呢300人受傷那高雄1000人受傷淡水500人受傷我想請問一下院長這些傷者我們在傷後的一個後送機制包括如何後送救治到哪幾間醫院如何救治以及後送的各間醫院生理實驗水素注意是否足夠調用來使用可供開刀的使用的人數\n以及沖洗傷口盥洗之使用者大概有幾人,我們這些機制有沒有去建立?\n謝謝委員 這個完全是一個假設性的問題但是坐在政府的立場我們就是告訴人民說政府是有準備的而且不只是政府民間有很多的相關的團體他們也在做這種大規模傷害之後包括天災地變之後的一些救助的工作那這個都平常在準備過程當中都有一些操演跟一些預備\n好 謝謝我想我們在探討這個問題雖然只是假設但是我們希望目的是引導我們的政府能夠去重視我們如果災後發生以後我們大量的傷患該如何救治的一個問題但是我想問部長部長您是醫師您也是全聯會的兩屆的一個全聯會理事長也是立法委員我想經驗豐富我想請問你幾個問題生理食鹽水如果在沒有的情況之下我們可以開刀嗎?\n沒有生理食鹽水沒辦法開刀沒辦法開刀啦齁那生理食鹽水最重要的兩個作用我想補充電解質以及最重要就是沖洗傷口對吧但是呢現在坊間啦我們生理食鹽水跟以往的缺藥我個人認為不太一樣最大的情況不同是它是開刀手術必備的一個藥品而且是\n部長,您覺得進得來嗎?\n﹚董事長\n合理的價碼來自己產相關的生理食塩水這個是我們事後再檢討啦但是我要講的是如果發生戰爭我想沒辦法進口啦那我們先來探討幾個問題為什麼不將專案進口的價格82元同樣擠附國內生產來製造我們有所謂的疫情國家隊嘛藥品、快篩以及之前還有新型冠狀病毒的感染用藥我們的搶滅、奎寧都有所謂的國家隊那為什麼現在不行\n部長我還是要講齁\n我們不希望每次都用專案進口,我們應該培植自己的相關的廠商,未來能夠...我想只要有合理的價錢應該廠商就會做啦。我們一起來讓我們的國內廠商有這個能力。我們希望協調國內合格的廠商,能夠增加他的供貨量。\n同時對這種大包裝的輸液也能夠盡快的恢復生產提供給疫苗機構來使用我們不希望這是超思案的一個翻版我想就像有的醫師在講難道危機就是商機嗎那今天他是戰備藥品\n我想以往蔡英文總統所說的一個態度很明顯對於戰備對於我們必須的這種急用藥品我們國內應該要有自己生產的一個能力那為什麼現在量會不夠本席不是危言聳聽我不是要去讓整個社會恐慌我是要提醒這個藥它不是眾多藥品缺少的其中一小環它是戰備用藥它所戰備的存在價值戰爭時我們認為是沒辦法進口的\n而且千萬不要看他這樣子啊我國內本身就有許多藥廠在製造為什麼平時不去輔導健保價給付的比一瓶可樂還便宜啊對他的原物料很便宜鹽和水而已但是整個製作的過程是非常嚴謹的是無菌的狀況而且他是塑料包裝所以還要去人工檢查異物這樣子嚴謹的一個過程當中我想竟然比不上一瓶可樂的價格\n我想針對這樣的事情我們應該請院長做以下的交代以及做檢討您聽聽看所有戰備儲備的一個藥品品項中是否有類似像永豐這樣子寡占市場的一個狀況我們應該去盤點我們應該需要有所對應的因應政策到底是不是像邱部長剛剛所說的是短期之內發生的嗎\n這明明就是6個月前我們去稽查瞭解他沒有符合規定才強制官場沒有符合GMP嗎?第二個我國原料藥所用的大部分都來自進口其中4成來自大陸戰備藥品他不是自製捏\n原本而是其原料在臺灣儲備是否充足我們有沒有盤點?部長有盤點嗎?戰爭時這些進口東西是進不來的那即使我們有工廠也無可奈何啊所以以上兩點院長您可不可以跟我回應我們是不是盤點一下能不能在兩個月內一個月內給我一個回應\n接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的一個缺失。三無\n無法源依據沒有PMF的核備函還有出狀況無理賠這狀況你們有掌握嗎?院長台灣是民主國家我們所有行政單位依法行政請問蘇義專案進口我們的依法法源依據是什麼?可以跟我分享一下嗎?請說緊急的專案進口我們從5月底就開始啟動了\n所以又是用緊急專案?應該這個緊急專案如果需要,這個應該是依法的沒有問題啊。依法沒有問題?你引用的是哪一個法?要事法?第幾條?可以跟我分享嗎?就本席所了解,無法源依據。\n請問院長如果公布無法源依據的行政命令可以成立嗎?我認為衛福部有帶頭違法的可能性所以現在是只要衛福部官員認定我緊急需要我就馬上釋法為無誤嗎?沒有法源依據所有藥品許可證藥品輸入那麼這些藥品有可能就是禁藥這是藥事法第二條第二項規定的\n請問院長如果是經邀怎麼處理?不會我覺得這個進口的過程當中我們從5月底啟動一直到6月12號第一批的輸入才進來這當中就對這個進口的國外廠商有進過一些篩檢\n待會我們越談越深喔,你聽聽看,如果為依法行政所有合章的政府官員,我們是不是應該主動送檢調,是不是監察院應該要看看有沒有所圖利的問題,還是需要本席來協助呢?我們目前沒有PMF何備函,部長,是嗎?有沒有何備函?\n目前核准專案輸入生理食鹽水輸入注意依據衛福部的回函摘要如下一、沒有我國藥品的許可證二、接屬國際會員國本席就想用法規面請教院長我們看一下問題PTT第4個回文說核准專案輸入的大包生理食鹽水接屬國際組織的會員國院長越南哪時候是PASS的那個會員國\n是會員國嗎?部長。越南這個是大總的。大總的,所以呢你的回函是告訴我全部都會員國啊。越南明明就不是會員國,它是EU GMP捏。\n那你怎麼回函這樣回我第二根據國外藥廠的工廠資料準備須知啊不是會員國的藥廠一律採國外實地茶廠有沒有去茶廠部長我認為沒有短期之內你要進口你沒茶廠嗎再來根據藥食法第57條你沒有核備函有沒有核備函哇鴨雀無聲啊院長部長\n我都有所知啊沒有給我任何的資料我可以大膽的篤定你沒有核備函你沒有許可證院長不要忘記連日本日本吉東製藥的證錄完新聞報導做假騙日本政府30年由出口國家自行認定衛福部連做個樣子要求廠商送個資料都沒有你就敢相信\n蘇易出狀況藥害基金沒有賠因為你沒有許可證阿我今天使用這一批蘇助益萬一我出了問題這是要無菌的狀況下這個是要給手術的人使用\n部長,我講之前的問題...但是藥害基金告訴我沒有許可證是不理賠的喔,這就是問題所在。\n問題越來越嚴重今天傷口或者是要做手術使用這些有可能都會有整個裡面包括輸注液裡面如果有熱源他會顯示讓整個在受感染的一個危險性很高所以今天如果塗針的不必要的傷害院長我們該怎麼去應對後續要怎麼救濟既然論述是對的食藥署怎麼可以准沒有許可證沒有茶場沒有PMF的核准核備含就可以進口\n那到時候如果今天有人受了傷害後續要求償我想詢問一下沒有許可證要害基金不賠償的情況之下是要國賠還是核准專案進口的公務員來理賠請回答我報告委員這個不管是專案的進口或是製造專案的進口或製藥製造我們在醫藥事法上面都有一些特別的這個措施的規定那本件\n我說從5月底到6月12號這個將近半個多月的時間當中我們一直在吹包括衛福部包括食藥署來的報告就是一個是配合進口的傳奇一個就是配合尋找合格的廠商能夠提供這些資料那這個過程當中我請衛福部再詳細的了解當初用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源\n接下來我想請問下一個問題\n我們要求癌症篩檢一直以來十大死因癌症是十大死因之首癌症已經纏連十大死因41年我想每一個人都有可能罹癌\n部長 報告委員\n肺癌能夠年齡下降篩檢的一個條件\n再來就是所謂的男性50歲以下女性45歲以下符合家族史抽菸史每兩年一次LDCT的檢查我想這個部分是我們的訴求包括乳癌也是我們都希望能夠年齡層下降再來我要跟大家談我們談的肺癌跟乳癌五個癌症以外另外三個癌子宮頸癌大腸癌口腔癌篩檢年齡下降請問目前規劃如何什麼時候辦理\n公費癌症篩檢新增胃癌是否如期10月上路?胃癌?對公費癌症篩檢胃癌\n好,我們一起來加油,所以你可以認同我的說法,是嗎?\n好,謝謝羅委員陳培宇及林月琴委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.294 --> 00:17.368\n好,謝謝主席。有請卓院長以及邱部長。卓院長、邱部長請背刑。院長,你要喝個水嗎?我可以等你。\n\n00:28.329 --> 00:57.235\n謝謝委員好院長解放軍戰機最近四面環台的天數跟次數是越來越高我們六月還為了解放軍海軍曾經擔任過廷長的男子駕駛小艇駛入到淡水河口政府也承認反應過慢為時已晚院長兩岸關係是越演越烈越來越緊張今天我想我們積極的要備戰我們也努力的避戰我想這是政府應該有的態度對吧\n\n00:58.015 --> 01:15.069\n我們一向認為備戰才能避戰,能戰才能止戰。是的,所以我覺得積極的備戰也是我們很重要的一個方針。今天我有一個狀況,我想我們一起來探討備戰相關事後的一個檢討。今天假設蘇澳港、高雄港、淡水港突然被解放軍炸彈襲擊。\n\n01:16.590 --> 01:41.926\n那造成的蘇澳呢300人受傷那高雄1000人受傷淡水500人受傷我想請問一下院長這些傷者我們在傷後的一個後送機制包括如何後送救治到哪幾間醫院如何救治以及後送的各間醫院生理實驗水素注意是否足夠調用來使用可供開刀的使用的人數\n\n01:42.907 --> 01:49.535\n以及沖洗傷口盥洗之使用者大概有幾人,我們這些機制有沒有去建立?\n\n01:51.202 --> 02:13.140\n謝謝委員這個完全是一個假設性的問題但是坐在政府的立場我們就是告訴人民說政府是有準備的而且不只是政府民間有很多的相關的團體他們也在做這種大規模傷害之後包括天災地變之後的一些救助的工作那這個都平常在準備過程當中都有一些操演跟一些預備\n\n02:13.800 --> 02:39.470\n好謝謝我想我們在探討這個問題雖然只是假設但是我們希望目的是引導我們的政府能夠去重視我們如果災後發生以後我們大量的傷患該如何救治的一個問題但是我想問部長部長您是醫師您也是全聯會的兩屆的一個全聯會理事長也是立法委員我想經驗豐富我想請問你幾個問題生理食鹽水如果在沒有的情況之下我們可以開刀嗎?\n\n02:40.626 --> 03:00.837\n沒有生理食鹽水沒辦法開刀沒辦法開刀啦齁那生理食鹽水最重要的兩個作用我想補充電解質以及最重要就是沖洗傷口對吧但是呢現在坊間啦我們生理食鹽水跟以往的缺藥我個人認為不太一樣最大的情況不同是它是開刀手術必備的一個藥品而且是\n\n03:01.237 --> 03:01.957\n部長,您覺得進得來嗎?\n\n03:26.431 --> 03:26.511\n﹚董事長\n\n03:42.074 --> 04:10.519\n合理的價碼來自己產相關的生理食塩水這個是我們事後再檢討啦但是我要講的是如果發生戰爭我想沒辦法進口啦那我們先來探討幾個問題為什麼不將專案進口的價格82元同樣擠附國內生產來製造我們有所謂的疫情國家隊嘛藥品、快篩以及之前還有新型冠狀病毒的感染用藥我們的搶滅、奎寧都有所謂的國家隊那為什麼現在不行\n\n04:12.329 --> 04:12.669\n部長我還是要講齁\n\n04:32.515 --> 04:42.028\n我們不希望每次都用專案進口,我們應該培植自己的相關的廠商,未來能夠...我想只要有合理的價錢應該廠商就會做啦。我們一起來讓我們的國內廠商有這個能力。我們希望協調國內合格的廠商,能夠增加他的供貨量。\n\n04:50.078 --> 05:04.394\n同時對這種大包裝的輸液也能夠盡快的恢復生產提供給疫苗機構來使用我們不希望這是超思案的一個翻版我想就像有的醫師在講難道危機就是商機嗎那今天他是戰備藥品\n\n05:05.996 --> 05:29.317\n我想以往蔡英文總統所說的一個態度很明顯對於戰備對於我們必須的這種急用藥品我們國內應該要有自己生產的一個能力那為什麼現在量會不夠本席不是危言聳聽我不是要去讓整個社會恐慌我是要提醒這個藥它不是眾多藥品缺少的其中一小環它是戰備用藥它所戰備的存在價值戰爭時我們認為是沒辦法進口的\n\n05:33.280 --> 05:57.410\n而且千萬不要看他這樣子啊我國內本身就有許多藥廠在製造為什麼平時不去輔導健保價給付的比一瓶可樂還便宜啊對他的原物料很便宜鹽和水而已但是整個製作的過程是非常嚴謹的是無菌的狀況而且他是塑料包裝所以還要去人工檢查異物這樣子嚴謹的一個過程當中我想竟然比不上一瓶可樂的價格\n\n05:58.590 --> 06:21.086\n我想針對這樣的事情我們應該請院長做以下的交代以及做檢討您聽聽看所有戰備儲備的一個藥品品項中是否有類似像永豐這樣子寡占市場的一個狀況我們應該去盤點我們應該需要有所對應的因應政策到底是不是像邱部長剛剛所說的是短期之內發生的嗎\n\n06:22.006 --> 06:39.997\n這明明就是6個月前我們去稽查瞭解他沒有符合規定才強制官場沒有符合GMP嗎?第二個我國原料藥所用的大部分都來自進口其中4成來自大陸戰備藥品他不是自製捏\n\n06:41.098 --> 06:57.915\n原本而是其原料在臺灣儲備是否充足我們有沒有盤點?部長有盤點嗎?戰爭時這些進口東西是進不來的那即使我們有工廠也無可奈何啊所以以上兩點院長您可不可以跟我回應我們是不是盤點一下能不能在兩個月內一個月內給我一個回應\n\n06:59.861 --> 07:02.884\n接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的一個缺失。三無\n\n07:28.504 --> 07:46.375\n無法源依據沒有PMF的核備函還有出狀況無理賠這狀況你們有掌握嗎?院長台灣是民主國家我們所有行政單位依法行政請問蘇義專案進口我們的依法法源依據是什麼?可以跟我分享一下嗎?請說緊急的專案進口我們從5月底就開始啟動了\n\n07:50.399 --> 08:08.371\n所以又是用緊急專案?應該這個緊急專案如果需要,這個應該是依法的沒有問題啊。依法沒有問題?你引用的是哪一個法?要事法?第幾條?可以跟我分享嗎?就本席所了解,無法源依據。\n\n08:10.065 --> 08:30.231\n請問院長如果公布無法源依據的行政命令可以成立嗎?我認為衛福部有帶頭違法的可能性所以現在是只要衛福部官員認定我緊急需要我就馬上釋法為無誤嗎?沒有法源依據所有藥品許可證藥品輸入那麼這些藥品有可能就是禁藥這是藥事法第二條第二項規定的\n\n08:32.051 --> 08:42.740\n請問院長如果是經邀怎麼處理?不會我覺得這個進口的過程當中我們從5月底啟動一直到6月12號第一批的輸入才進來這當中就對這個進口的國外廠商有進過一些篩檢\n\n08:48.705 --> 09:05.405\n待會我們越談越深喔,你聽聽看,如果為依法行政所有合章的政府官員,我們是不是應該主動送檢調,是不是監察院應該要看看有沒有所圖利的問題,還是需要本席來協助呢?我們目前沒有PMF何備函,部長,是嗎?有沒有何備函?\n\n09:07.659 --> 09:36.180\n目前核准專案輸入生理食鹽水輸入注意依據衛福部的回函摘要如下一、沒有我國藥品的許可證二、接屬國際會員國本席就想用法規面請教院長我們看一下問題PTT第4個回文說核准專案輸入的大包生理食鹽水接屬國際組織的會員國院長越南哪時候是PASS的那個會員國\n\n09:39.028 --> 09:54.485\n是會員國嗎?部長。越南這個是大總的。大總的,所以呢你的回函是告訴我全部都會員國啊。越南明明就不是會員國,它是EUGMP捏。\n\n09:58.254 --> 10:19.939\n那你怎麼回函這樣回我第二根據國外藥廠的工廠資料準備須知啊不是會員國的藥廠一律採國外實地茶廠有沒有去茶廠部長我認為沒有短期之內你要進口你沒茶廠嗎再來根據藥食法第57條你沒有核備函有沒有核備函哇鴨雀無聲啊院長部長\n\n10:28.305 --> 10:49.839\n我都有所知啊沒有給我任何的資料我可以大膽的篤定你沒有核備函你沒有許可證院長不要忘記連日本日本吉東製藥的證錄完新聞報導做假騙日本政府30年由出口國家自行認定衛福部連做個樣子要求廠商送個資料都沒有你就敢相信\n\n10:51.275 --> 11:04.731\n蘇易出狀況藥害基金沒有賠因為你沒有許可證阿我今天使用這一批蘇助益萬一我出了問題這是要無菌的狀況下這個是要給手術的人使用\n\n11:06.684 --> 11:09.348\n部長,我講之前的問題...但是藥害基金告訴我沒有許可證是不理賠的喔,這就是問題所在。\n\n11:24.527 --> 11:52.122\n問題越來越嚴重今天傷口或者是要做手術使用這些有可能都會有整個裡面包括輸注液裡面如果有熱源他會顯示讓整個在受感染的一個危險性很高所以今天如果塗針的不必要的傷害院長我們該怎麼去應對後續要怎麼救濟既然論述是對的食藥署怎麼可以准沒有許可證沒有茶場沒有PMF的核准核備含就可以進口\n\n11:53.749 --> 12:17.669\n那到時候如果今天有人受了傷害後續要求償我想詢問一下沒有許可證要害基金不賠償的情況之下是要國賠還是核准專案進口的公務員來理賠請回答我報告委員這個不管是專案的進口或是製造專案的進口或製藥製造我們在醫藥事法上面都有一些特別的這個措施的規定那本件\n\n12:18.189 --> 12:38.503\n我說從5月底到6月12號這個將近半個多月的時間當中我們一直在吹包括衛福部包括食藥署來的報告就是一個是配合進口的傳奇一個就是配合尋找合格的廠商能夠提供這些資料那這個過程當中我請衛福部再詳細的了解當初用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源\n\n12:39.344 --> 12:39.885\n接下來我想請問下一個問題\n\n13:08.732 --> 13:20.674\n我們要求癌症篩檢一直以來十大死因癌症是十大死因之首癌症已經纏連十大死因41年我想每一個人都有可能罹癌\n\n13:21.920 --> 13:22.100\n部長報告委員\n\n13:51.220 --> 13:52.501\n肺癌能夠年齡下降篩檢的一個條件\n\n14:17.143 --> 14:40.512\n再來就是所謂的男性50歲以下女性45歲以下符合家族史抽菸史每兩年一次LDCT的檢查我想這個部分是我們的訴求包括乳癌也是我們都希望能夠年齡層下降再來我要跟大家談我們談的肺癌跟乳癌五個癌症以外另外三個癌子宮頸癌大腸癌口腔癌篩檢年齡下降請問目前規劃如何什麼時候辦理\n\n14:42.762 --> 14:45.663\n公費癌症篩檢新增胃癌是否如期10月上路?胃癌?對公費癌症篩檢胃癌\n\n15:13.561 --> 15:15.763\n好,我們一起來加油,所以你可以認同我的說法,是嗎?\n\n15:44.423 --> 15:53.196\n好,謝謝羅委員陳培宇及林月琴委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.294,"end":17.368,"text":"好,謝謝主席。有請卓院長以及邱部長。卓院長、邱部長請背刑。院長,你要喝個水嗎?我可以等你。"},{"start":28.329,"end":57.235,"text":"謝謝委員好 院長解放軍戰機最近四面環台的天數跟次數是越來越高我們六月還為了解放軍海軍曾經擔任過廷長的男子駕駛小艇駛入到淡水河口政府也承認反應過慢為時已晚院長兩岸關係是越演越烈越來越緊張今天我想我們積極的要備戰我們也努力的避戰我想這是政府應該有的態度對吧"},{"start":58.015,"end":75.069,"text":"我們一向認為備戰才能避戰,能戰才能止戰。是的,所以我覺得積極的備戰也是我們很重要的一個方針。今天我有一個狀況,我想我們一起來探討備戰相關事後的一個檢討。今天假設蘇澳港、高雄港、淡水港突然被解放軍炸彈襲擊。"},{"start":76.59,"end":101.926,"text":"那造成的蘇澳呢300人受傷那高雄1000人受傷淡水500人受傷我想請問一下院長這些傷者我們在傷後的一個後送機制包括如何後送救治到哪幾間醫院如何救治以及後送的各間醫院生理實驗水素注意是否足夠調用來使用可供開刀的使用的人數"},{"start":102.907,"end":109.535,"text":"以及沖洗傷口盥洗之使用者大概有幾人,我們這些機制有沒有去建立?"},{"start":111.202,"end":133.14,"text":"謝謝委員 這個完全是一個假設性的問題但是坐在政府的立場我們就是告訴人民說政府是有準備的而且不只是政府民間有很多的相關的團體他們也在做這種大規模傷害之後包括天災地變之後的一些救助的工作那這個都平常在準備過程當中都有一些操演跟一些預備"},{"start":133.8,"end":159.47,"text":"好 謝謝我想我們在探討這個問題雖然只是假設但是我們希望目的是引導我們的政府能夠去重視我們如果災後發生以後我們大量的傷患該如何救治的一個問題但是我想問部長部長您是醫師您也是全聯會的兩屆的一個全聯會理事長也是立法委員我想經驗豐富我想請問你幾個問題生理食鹽水如果在沒有的情況之下我們可以開刀嗎?"},{"start":160.626,"end":180.837,"text":"沒有生理食鹽水沒辦法開刀沒辦法開刀啦齁那生理食鹽水最重要的兩個作用我想補充電解質以及最重要就是沖洗傷口對吧但是呢現在坊間啦我們生理食鹽水跟以往的缺藥我個人認為不太一樣最大的情況不同是它是開刀手術必備的一個藥品而且是"},{"start":181.237,"end":181.957,"text":"部長,您覺得進得來嗎?"},{"start":206.431,"end":206.511,"text":"﹚董事長"},{"start":222.074,"end":250.519,"text":"合理的價碼來自己產相關的生理食塩水這個是我們事後再檢討啦但是我要講的是如果發生戰爭我想沒辦法進口啦那我們先來探討幾個問題為什麼不將專案進口的價格82元同樣擠附國內生產來製造我們有所謂的疫情國家隊嘛藥品、快篩以及之前還有新型冠狀病毒的感染用藥我們的搶滅、奎寧都有所謂的國家隊那為什麼現在不行"},{"start":252.329,"end":252.669,"text":"部長我還是要講齁"},{"start":272.515,"end":282.028,"text":"我們不希望每次都用專案進口,我們應該培植自己的相關的廠商,未來能夠...我想只要有合理的價錢應該廠商就會做啦。我們一起來讓我們的國內廠商有這個能力。我們希望協調國內合格的廠商,能夠增加他的供貨量。"},{"start":290.078,"end":304.394,"text":"同時對這種大包裝的輸液也能夠盡快的恢復生產提供給疫苗機構來使用我們不希望這是超思案的一個翻版我想就像有的醫師在講難道危機就是商機嗎那今天他是戰備藥品"},{"start":305.996,"end":329.317,"text":"我想以往蔡英文總統所說的一個態度很明顯對於戰備對於我們必須的這種急用藥品我們國內應該要有自己生產的一個能力那為什麼現在量會不夠本席不是危言聳聽我不是要去讓整個社會恐慌我是要提醒這個藥它不是眾多藥品缺少的其中一小環它是戰備用藥它所戰備的存在價值戰爭時我們認為是沒辦法進口的"},{"start":333.28,"end":357.41,"text":"而且千萬不要看他這樣子啊我國內本身就有許多藥廠在製造為什麼平時不去輔導健保價給付的比一瓶可樂還便宜啊對他的原物料很便宜鹽和水而已但是整個製作的過程是非常嚴謹的是無菌的狀況而且他是塑料包裝所以還要去人工檢查異物這樣子嚴謹的一個過程當中我想竟然比不上一瓶可樂的價格"},{"start":358.59,"end":381.086,"text":"我想針對這樣的事情我們應該請院長做以下的交代以及做檢討您聽聽看所有戰備儲備的一個藥品品項中是否有類似像永豐這樣子寡占市場的一個狀況我們應該去盤點我們應該需要有所對應的因應政策到底是不是像邱部長剛剛所說的是短期之內發生的嗎"},{"start":382.006,"end":399.997,"text":"這明明就是6個月前我們去稽查瞭解他沒有符合規定才強制官場沒有符合GMP嗎?第二個我國原料藥所用的大部分都來自進口其中4成來自大陸戰備藥品他不是自製捏"},{"start":401.098,"end":417.915,"text":"原本而是其原料在臺灣儲備是否充足我們有沒有盤點?部長有盤點嗎?戰爭時這些進口東西是進不來的那即使我們有工廠也無可奈何啊所以以上兩點院長您可不可以跟我回應我們是不是盤點一下能不能在兩個月內一個月內給我一個回應"},{"start":419.861,"end":422.884,"text":"接下來我要跟院長談論此次進口有三大嚴重的一個缺失。三無"},{"start":448.504,"end":466.375,"text":"無法源依據沒有PMF的核備函還有出狀況無理賠這狀況你們有掌握嗎?院長台灣是民主國家我們所有行政單位依法行政請問蘇義專案進口我們的依法法源依據是什麼?可以跟我分享一下嗎?請說緊急的專案進口我們從5月底就開始啟動了"},{"start":470.399,"end":488.371,"text":"所以又是用緊急專案?應該這個緊急專案如果需要,這個應該是依法的沒有問題啊。依法沒有問題?你引用的是哪一個法?要事法?第幾條?可以跟我分享嗎?就本席所了解,無法源依據。"},{"start":490.065,"end":510.231,"text":"請問院長如果公布無法源依據的行政命令可以成立嗎?我認為衛福部有帶頭違法的可能性所以現在是只要衛福部官員認定我緊急需要我就馬上釋法為無誤嗎?沒有法源依據所有藥品許可證藥品輸入那麼這些藥品有可能就是禁藥這是藥事法第二條第二項規定的"},{"start":512.051,"end":522.74,"text":"請問院長如果是經邀怎麼處理?不會我覺得這個進口的過程當中我們從5月底啟動一直到6月12號第一批的輸入才進來這當中就對這個進口的國外廠商有進過一些篩檢"},{"start":528.705,"end":545.405,"text":"待會我們越談越深喔,你聽聽看,如果為依法行政所有合章的政府官員,我們是不是應該主動送檢調,是不是監察院應該要看看有沒有所圖利的問題,還是需要本席來協助呢?我們目前沒有PMF何備函,部長,是嗎?有沒有何備函?"},{"start":547.659,"end":576.18,"text":"目前核准專案輸入生理食鹽水輸入注意依據衛福部的回函摘要如下一、沒有我國藥品的許可證二、接屬國際會員國本席就想用法規面請教院長我們看一下問題PTT第4個回文說核准專案輸入的大包生理食鹽水接屬國際組織的會員國院長越南哪時候是PASS的那個會員國"},{"start":579.028,"end":594.485,"text":"是會員國嗎?部長。越南這個是大總的。大總的,所以呢你的回函是告訴我全部都會員國啊。越南明明就不是會員國,它是EU GMP捏。"},{"start":598.254,"end":619.939,"text":"那你怎麼回函這樣回我第二根據國外藥廠的工廠資料準備須知啊不是會員國的藥廠一律採國外實地茶廠有沒有去茶廠部長我認為沒有短期之內你要進口你沒茶廠嗎再來根據藥食法第57條你沒有核備函有沒有核備函哇鴨雀無聲啊院長部長"},{"start":628.305,"end":649.839,"text":"我都有所知啊沒有給我任何的資料我可以大膽的篤定你沒有核備函你沒有許可證院長不要忘記連日本日本吉東製藥的證錄完新聞報導做假騙日本政府30年由出口國家自行認定衛福部連做個樣子要求廠商送個資料都沒有你就敢相信"},{"start":651.275,"end":664.731,"text":"蘇易出狀況藥害基金沒有賠因為你沒有許可證阿我今天使用這一批蘇助益萬一我出了問題這是要無菌的狀況下這個是要給手術的人使用"},{"start":666.684,"end":669.348,"text":"部長,我講之前的問題...但是藥害基金告訴我沒有許可證是不理賠的喔,這就是問題所在。"},{"start":684.527,"end":712.122,"text":"問題越來越嚴重今天傷口或者是要做手術使用這些有可能都會有整個裡面包括輸注液裡面如果有熱源他會顯示讓整個在受感染的一個危險性很高所以今天如果塗針的不必要的傷害院長我們該怎麼去應對後續要怎麼救濟既然論述是對的食藥署怎麼可以准沒有許可證沒有茶場沒有PMF的核准核備含就可以進口"},{"start":713.749,"end":737.669,"text":"那到時候如果今天有人受了傷害後續要求償我想詢問一下沒有許可證要害基金不賠償的情況之下是要國賠還是核准專案進口的公務員來理賠請回答我報告委員這個不管是專案的進口或是製造專案的進口或製藥製造我們在醫藥事法上面都有一些特別的這個措施的規定那本件"},{"start":738.189,"end":758.503,"text":"我說從5月底到6月12號這個將近半個多月的時間當中我們一直在吹包括衛福部包括食藥署來的報告就是一個是配合進口的傳奇一個就是配合尋找合格的廠商能夠提供這些資料那這個過程當中我請衛福部再詳細的了解當初用什麼樣的方式跟程序去尋找這些貨源"},{"start":759.344,"end":759.885,"text":"接下來我想請問下一個問題"},{"start":788.732,"end":800.674,"text":"我們要求癌症篩檢一直以來十大死因癌症是十大死因之首癌症已經纏連十大死因41年我想每一個人都有可能罹癌"},{"start":801.92,"end":802.1,"text":"部長 報告委員"},{"start":831.22,"end":832.501,"text":"肺癌能夠年齡下降篩檢的一個條件"},{"start":857.143,"end":880.512,"text":"再來就是所謂的男性50歲以下女性45歲以下符合家族史抽菸史每兩年一次LDCT的檢查我想這個部分是我們的訴求包括乳癌也是我們都希望能夠年齡層下降再來我要跟大家談我們談的肺癌跟乳癌五個癌症以外另外三個癌子宮頸癌大腸癌口腔癌篩檢年齡下降請問目前規劃如何什麼時候辦理"},{"start":882.762,"end":885.663,"text":"公費癌症篩檢新增胃癌是否如期10月上路?胃癌?對公費癌症篩檢胃癌"},{"start":913.561,"end":915.763,"text":"好,我們一起來加油,所以你可以認同我的說法,是嗎?"},{"start":944.423,"end":953.196,"text":"好,謝謝羅委員陳培宇及林月琴委員"}]}}}}