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那另外我想預期啦齁搶著這個討論核電再運轉那是不是來討論核廢處置廠比較務實一點喔好 我們請教主委跟次長就全世界有哪個國家在核電廠營運三四十年之後還沒有興建核廢竿組設施的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 408.354, \"end\": 408.774, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 408.774, \"end\": 408.934, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 408.934, \"end\": 409.375, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 409.375, \"end\": 409.915, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 409.915, \"end\": 410.215, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 410.215, \"end\": 410.355, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 410.355, \"end\": 411.096, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 411.096, \"end\": 411.256, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 411.256, \"end\": 411.376, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 411.376, \"end\": 411.676, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 411.676, \"end\": 411.696, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 411.696, 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496.222, \"end\": 496.442, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 496.442, \"end\": 496.662, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 496.662, \"end\": 497.422, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 497.422, \"end\": 497.642, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 497.642, \"end\": 497.843, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 497.843, \"end\": 498.003, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 498.003, \"end\": 498.023, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,895 --> 00:00:09,267\n謝謝主席有請陳竺偉跟經濟部連次長\n\n2\n00:00:15,086 --> 00:00:34,850\n林委員早我想首先我先要向柯之恩召委喊話一下核能安全、核廢處理跟社會共識這三大要件都不可偏廢我想在這三大要件之前還沒有完備之前我們沒有任何透過修法要求繼續使用核電的正當性所以我堅決反對外行的立法來干涉專業的核能安全的審查\n\n3\n00:00:39,491 --> 00:00:59,797\n所以我呼籲科智恩、昭緯要珍惜人民賦予的權利今天不應該進入法條的審查那如果這項法條那麼具有公義性那大家搶後提而來不及為什麼會淪落到今天這種地步就連國民黨的教文的昭緯跟國民黨的教文委員都不願意提案只有幾個從國會擴權惡法一路惡搞台灣到今天的戰鬥欄有提\n\n4\n00:01:04,679 --> 00:01:12,685\n所以我再次喊話克珍、昭緯今天真的不該進入法條的審查。尋答結束,我覺得就應該散會。放過人民,放過台灣,尊重專業。昨晚公民團體與群眾在立法院外濟南路集結,舉辦反對核電研議拒絕草率修法的晚會。\n\n5\n00:01:27,296 --> 00:01:53,676\n那表達拒絕核管法草率修法有訴求我想今天本席要針對這一連串這個修法的這個提案版本來做一些批判首先我想請教核安會主委核安會作為把關這個國內核能電廠安全監督的機關除了確保運轉當下的安全性當然我們更不能忽略就是未來的安全性那我國核電廠從1980年代前後商轉至今\n\n6\n00:01:57,459 --> 00:02:16,998\n三座核電廠各機組都有40年左右的歷史依照核管法第六條的規定本來就應該在運轉期限屆期前重新進行安全的評估否則就依法要停止運轉來著手所謂的除役的作業\n\n7\n00:02:17,799 --> 00:02:37,856\n那核管法制定當初就有這一層40年的限制的安全考量以及在運轉有效借期前5年到15年的換照申請的法定期間所以請教主委這些是否是為了核能發電的未來安全性的考量而定的\n\n8\n00:02:38,456 --> 00:02:47,161\n那面對核能這麼一個謹慎掌控風險的能源,主委你是不是同意這些年限的限制是合理的?\n\n9\n00:02:49,003 --> 00:03:14,778\n完全合理五年到前15年美國是前5年到前20年我們其實是比照國際的經驗其實在過去馬政府執政時期的2009年台電就已經提出核一廠一號機及二號機的研議申請只是他截至2016年的2月他提出到\n\n10\n00:03:17,259 --> 00:03:34,266\n例經近7年,台電公司能有7項的議題沒有提出相關的評估或改善結果的答覆說明所以從這個歷史前提我們可以看得出來核電研議的審查需要時間就如同過去主委你也常常\n\n11\n00:03:37,047 --> 00:03:47,214\n這個問題是相當複雜以至於多年過去核電廠研議的審查都沒有下文最後的結果就是台電撤回研議的申請那再來同樣是一份歷史的回顧2011年馬前總統召開能源政策記者會的時候他曾經宣布\n\n12\n00:03:57,481 --> 00:04:01,687\n核一、核二、核三將不再研議並強調以積極務實跟負責的態度逐步邁向非核家園現在各個國民黨紛紛提出核電要研議的修法完完全全就是在穿越時空打臉\n\n13\n00:04:14,785 --> 00:04:23,754\n馬前總統非核家園不但是環境基本法的明文目標也是這幾任總統通通有宣示過的內容況且核電的研議有安全性的問題我們必須要先停機檢修才符合所謂繼續運轉的能量\n\n14\n00:04:38,008 --> 00:04:55,796\n那可是檢修需要耗費好幾年的時間跟龐大的預算那綜合前面所說的提出申請審核需要時間停機檢修需要時間更新機組也需要時間那所以核三機組的停機在即的現在我們要求\n\n15\n00:04:56,943 --> 00:05:21,677\n不停止運轉而研議等於是擔著核電廠超時服役的更高風險所以我們根本沒有這樣的本錢去承受所以本席在前一次核安會的質詢中我就提出質疑說研議到底需要多少的成本那根本沒有辦法平衡這個永和人士口中所謂的便宜電價這次我們簡單就問一下主委跟次長好了\n\n16\n00:05:22,017 --> 00:05:27,006\n最近一次即將停機的這個核三廠一號機檢修時間需要多少時間?還有在現行條件下如果重啟這個營運那維修成本又需要多少?簡單回答\n\n17\n00:05:38,055 --> 00:06:01,692\n就目前來講最快最快要5年了那有可能是因為剛才講的因為你可能如果你要停了之後要再運轉它有很多很多複雜的問題像剛才包括燃料這些低階燃料要怎麼去處理等等還有一些機構安全的問題這些如果又再平復完之後我想最快是5年最長搞不好要拖到10年以上對這是時間嘛那整個的成本呢需要花的經費的成本呢\n\n18\n00:06:07,136 --> 00:06:27,326\n因為這個成本我們是目前是沒有去估計的應該因為第一個我們沒有去做檢查嘛是也沒有去評估說哪邊還要再去重置嘛那再來就是說如果這個時間是拖到5年10年那對於我們整個在能源的供應上其實是緩不濟急的所以說我們在做整個能源供應的時候我們要用最\n\n19\n00:06:28,146 --> 00:06:47,514\n最嚴格的一個環境的一個設置條件我不能把這個就講說它一定是存在那這樣對於我的能源供應是一個存在一個大的漏洞所以我們一定是要把說那我非核我執行下去那我整個能源我要怎麼再去接上來那這樣對於整個國家在能源供應上才是一個最好的一個\n\n20\n00:06:48,354 --> 00:06:59,201\n好所以在次長您的說法之下就是說核電真的經濟嗎?真的穩定嗎?那我想這是大大的懷疑啦齁那好那另外我想預期啦齁搶著這個討論核電再運轉那是不是來討論核廢處置廠比較務實一點喔好我們請教主委跟次長就全世界有哪個國家在核電廠營運三四十年之後還沒有興建核廢竿組設施的\n\n21\n00:07:19,195 --> 00:07:44,908\n我的理解是沒有沒有國家沒有國家只有台灣只有台灣就只有台灣所以在安全把關的考量下必須要先討論核廢料的處理嘛所以在座請教主委跟次長就使用核電的前提是不是得先安全的處理核廢料是嗎好那所以最後啦我想核廢的事情沒辦法處理\n\n22\n00:07:46,252 --> 00:08:00,997\n社會也沒有辦法達到共識核能安全也沒辦法掌握那我想討論今天的這個議題完全都是空談所以我再次重申本席的立場不能讓今天的決定成為明天的困境任何人都不該用政治來決定安全這件事情\n\n23\n00:08:03,078 --> 00:08:18,023\n所以昨天公民集結學者與各界的代表一個一個宣講表達拒絕核電的訴求核電再運轉這絕對真的不是一條可行的道路所以拜託我們主委跟次長好好的把關謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5895\t9267\t謝謝主席 有請陳竺偉跟經濟部連次長\n15086\t34850\t林委員早我想首先我先要向柯之恩召委喊話一下核能安全、核廢處理跟社會共識這三大要件都不可偏廢我想在這三大要件之前還沒有完備之前我們沒有任何透過修法要求繼續使用核電的正當性所以我堅決反對外行的立法來干涉專業的核能安全的審查\n39491\t59797\t所以我呼籲科智恩、昭緯要珍惜人民賦予的權利今天不應該進入法條的審查那如果這項法條那麼具有公義性那大家搶後提而來不及為什麼會淪落到今天這種地步就連國民黨的教文的昭緯跟國民黨的教文委員都不願意提案只有幾個從國會擴權惡法一路惡搞台灣到今天的戰鬥欄有提\n64679\t72685\t所以我再次喊話克珍、昭緯今天真的不該進入法條的審查。尋答結束,我覺得就應該散會。放過人民,放過台灣,尊重專業。昨晚公民團體與群眾在立法院外濟南路集結,舉辦反對核電研議拒絕草率修法的晚會。\n87296\t113676\t那表達拒絕核管法草率修法有訴求我想今天本席要針對這一連串這個修法的這個提案版本來做一些批判首先我想請教核安會主委核安會作為把關這個國內核能電廠安全監督的機關除了確保運轉當下的安全性當然我們更不能忽略就是未來的安全性那我國核電廠從1980年代前後商轉至今\n117459\t136998\t三座核電廠各機組都有40年左右的歷史依照核管法第六條的規定本來就應該在運轉期限屆期前重新進行安全的評估否則就依法要停止運轉來著手所謂的除役的作業\n137799\t157856\t那核管法制定當初就有這一層40年的限制的安全考量以及在運轉有效借期前5年到15年的換照申請的法定期間所以請教主委這些是否是為了核能發電的未來安全性的考量而定的\n158456\t167161\t那面對核能這麼一個謹慎掌控風險的能源,主委你是不是同意這些年限的限制是合理的?\n169003\t194778\t完全合理五年到前15年美國是前5年到前20年我們其實是比照國際的經驗其實在過去馬政府執政時期的2009年台電就已經提出核一廠一號機及二號機的研議申請只是他截至2016年的2月他提出到\n197259\t214266\t例經近7年,台電公司能有7項的議題沒有提出相關的評估或改善結果的答覆說明所以從這個歷史前提我們可以看得出來核電研議的審查需要時間就如同過去主委你也常常\n217047\t227214\t這個問題是相當複雜以至於多年過去核電廠研議的審查都沒有下文最後的結果就是台電撤回研議的申請那再來同樣是一份歷史的回顧2011年馬前總統召開能源政策記者會的時候他曾經宣布\n237481\t241687\t核一、核二、核三將不再研議並強調以積極務實跟負責的態度逐步邁向非核家園現在各個國民黨紛紛提出核電要研議的修法完完全全就是在穿越時空打臉\n254785\t263754\t馬前總統非核家園不但是環境基本法的明文目標也是這幾任總統通通有宣示過的內容況且核電的研議有安全性的問題我們必須要先停機檢修才符合所謂繼續運轉的能量\n278008\t295796\t那可是檢修需要耗費好幾年的時間跟龐大的預算那綜合前面所說的提出申請審核需要時間停機檢修需要時間更新機組也需要時間那所以核三機組的停機在即的現在我們要求\n296943\t321677\t不停止運轉而研議等於是擔著核電廠超時服役的更高風險所以我們根本沒有這樣的本錢去承受所以本席在前一次核安會的質詢中我就提出質疑說研議到底需要多少的成本那根本沒有辦法平衡這個永和人士口中所謂的便宜電價這次我們簡單就問一下主委跟次長好了\n322017\t327006\t最近一次即將停機的這個核三廠一號機檢修時間需要多少時間?還有在現行條件下如果重啟這個營運那維修成本又需要多少?簡單回答\n338055\t361692\t就目前來講最快最快要5年了那有可能是因為剛才講的因為你可能如果你要停了之後要再運轉它有很多很多複雜的問題像剛才包括燃料這些低階燃料要怎麼去處理等等還有一些機構安全的問題這些如果又再平復完之後我想最快是5年最長搞不好要拖到10年以上對這是時間嘛那整個的成本呢需要花的經費的成本呢\n367136\t387326\t因為這個成本我們是目前是沒有去估計的應該因為第一個我們沒有去做檢查嘛是也沒有去評估說哪邊還要再去重置嘛那再來就是說如果這個時間是拖到5年10年那對於我們整個在能源的供應上其實是緩不濟急的所以說我們在做整個能源供應的時候我們要用最\n388146\t407514\t最嚴格的一個環境的一個設置條件我不能把這個就講說它一定是存在那這樣對於我的能源供應是一個存在一個大的漏洞所以我們一定是要把說那我非核我執行下去那我整個能源我要怎麼再去接上來那這樣對於整個國家在能源供應上才是一個最好的一個\n408354\t419201\t好 所以在次長您的說法之下就是說核電真的經濟嗎?真的穩定嗎?那我想這是大大的懷疑啦齁那好 那另外我想預期啦齁搶著這個討論核電再運轉那是不是來討論核廢處置廠比較務實一點喔好 我們請教主委跟次長就全世界有哪個國家在核電廠營運三四十年之後還沒有興建核廢竿組設施的\n439195\t464908\t我的理解是沒有沒有國家沒有國家只有台灣只有台灣就只有台灣所以在安全把關的考量下必須要先討論核廢料的處理嘛所以在座請教主委跟次長就使用核電的前提是不是得先安全的處理核廢料是嗎好那所以最後啦我想核廢的事情沒辦法處理\n466252\t480997\t社會也沒有辦法達到共識 核能安全也沒辦法掌握那我想討論今天的這個議題 完全都是空談所以我再次重申本席的立場不能讓今天的決定成為明天的困境任何人都不該用政治來決定安全這件事情\n483078\t498023\t所以昨天公民集結學者與各界的代表一個一個宣講表達拒絕核電的訴求核電再運轉這絕對真的不是一條可行的道路所以拜託我們主委跟次長好好的把關 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請陳竺偉跟經濟部連次長\n林委員早我想首先我先要向柯之恩召委喊話一下核能安全、核廢處理跟社會共識這三大要件都不可偏廢我想在這三大要件之前還沒有完備之前我們沒有任何透過修法要求繼續使用核電的正當性所以我堅決反對外行的立法來干涉專業的核能安全的審查\n所以我呼籲科智恩、昭緯要珍惜人民賦予的權利今天不應該進入法條的審查那如果這項法條那麼具有公義性那大家搶後提而來不及為什麼會淪落到今天這種地步就連國民黨的教文的昭緯跟國民黨的教文委員都不願意提案只有幾個從國會擴權惡法一路惡搞台灣到今天的戰鬥欄有提\n所以我再次喊話克珍、昭緯今天真的不該進入法條的審查。尋答結束,我覺得就應該散會。放過人民,放過台灣,尊重專業。昨晚公民團體與群眾在立法院外濟南路集結,舉辦反對核電研議拒絕草率修法的晚會。\n那表達拒絕核管法草率修法有訴求我想今天本席要針對這一連串這個修法的這個提案版本來做一些批判首先我想請教核安會主委核安會作為把關這個國內核能電廠安全監督的機關除了確保運轉當下的安全性當然我們更不能忽略就是未來的安全性那我國核電廠從1980年代前後商轉至今\n三座核電廠各機組都有40年左右的歷史依照核管法第六條的規定本來就應該在運轉期限屆期前重新進行安全的評估否則就依法要停止運轉來著手所謂的除役的作業\n那核管法制定當初就有這一層40年的限制的安全考量以及在運轉有效借期前5年到15年的換照申請的法定期間所以請教主委這些是否是為了核能發電的未來安全性的考量而定的\n那面對核能這麼一個謹慎掌控風險的能源,主委你是不是同意這些年限的限制是合理的?\n完全合理五年到前15年美國是前5年到前20年我們其實是比照國際的經驗其實在過去馬政府執政時期的2009年台電就已經提出核一廠一號機及二號機的研議申請只是他截至2016年的2月他提出到\n例經近7年,台電公司能有7項的議題沒有提出相關的評估或改善結果的答覆說明所以從這個歷史前提我們可以看得出來核電研議的審查需要時間就如同過去主委你也常常\n這個問題是相當複雜以至於多年過去核電廠研議的審查都沒有下文最後的結果就是台電撤回研議的申請那再來同樣是一份歷史的回顧2011年馬前總統召開能源政策記者會的時候他曾經宣布\n核一、核二、核三將不再研議並強調以積極務實跟負責的態度逐步邁向非核家園現在各個國民黨紛紛提出核電要研議的修法完完全全就是在穿越時空打臉\n馬前總統非核家園不但是環境基本法的明文目標也是這幾任總統通通有宣示過的內容況且核電的研議有安全性的問題我們必須要先停機檢修才符合所謂繼續運轉的能量\n那可是檢修需要耗費好幾年的時間跟龐大的預算那綜合前面所說的提出申請審核需要時間停機檢修需要時間更新機組也需要時間那所以核三機組的停機在即的現在我們要求\n不停止運轉而研議等於是擔著核電廠超時服役的更高風險所以我們根本沒有這樣的本錢去承受所以本席在前一次核安會的質詢中我就提出質疑說研議到底需要多少的成本那根本沒有辦法平衡這個永和人士口中所謂的便宜電價這次我們簡單就問一下主委跟次長好了\n最近一次即將停機的這個核三廠一號機檢修時間需要多少時間?還有在現行條件下如果重啟這個營運那維修成本又需要多少?簡單回答\n就目前來講最快最快要5年了那有可能是因為剛才講的因為你可能如果你要停了之後要再運轉它有很多很多複雜的問題像剛才包括燃料這些低階燃料要怎麼去處理等等還有一些機構安全的問題這些如果又再平復完之後我想最快是5年最長搞不好要拖到10年以上對這是時間嘛那整個的成本呢需要花的經費的成本呢\n因為這個成本我們是目前是沒有去估計的應該因為第一個我們沒有去做檢查嘛是也沒有去評估說哪邊還要再去重置嘛那再來就是說如果這個時間是拖到5年10年那對於我們整個在能源的供應上其實是緩不濟急的所以說我們在做整個能源供應的時候我們要用最\n最嚴格的一個環境的一個設置條件我不能把這個就講說它一定是存在那這樣對於我的能源供應是一個存在一個大的漏洞所以我們一定是要把說那我非核我執行下去那我整個能源我要怎麼再去接上來那這樣對於整個國家在能源供應上才是一個最好的一個\n好 所以在次長您的說法之下就是說核電真的經濟嗎?真的穩定嗎?那我想這是大大的懷疑啦齁那好 那另外我想預期啦齁搶著這個討論核電再運轉那是不是來討論核廢處置廠比較務實一點喔好 我們請教主委跟次長就全世界有哪個國家在核電廠營運三四十年之後還沒有興建核廢竿組設施的\n我的理解是沒有沒有國家沒有國家只有台灣只有台灣就只有台灣所以在安全把關的考量下必須要先討論核廢料的處理嘛所以在座請教主委跟次長就使用核電的前提是不是得先安全的處理核廢料是嗎好那所以最後啦我想核廢的事情沒辦法處理\n社會也沒有辦法達到共識 核能安全也沒辦法掌握那我想討論今天的這個議題 完全都是空談所以我再次重申本席的立場不能讓今天的決定成為明天的困境任何人都不該用政治來決定安全這件事情\n所以昨天公民集結學者與各界的代表一個一個宣講表達拒絕核電的訴求核電再運轉這絕對真的不是一條可行的道路所以拜託我們主委跟次長好好的把關 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.895 --> 00:09.267\n謝謝主席有請陳竺偉跟經濟部連次長\n\n00:15.086 --> 00:34.850\n林委員早我想首先我先要向柯之恩召委喊話一下核能安全、核廢處理跟社會共識這三大要件都不可偏廢我想在這三大要件之前還沒有完備之前我們沒有任何透過修法要求繼續使用核電的正當性所以我堅決反對外行的立法來干涉專業的核能安全的審查\n\n00:39.491 --> 00:59.797\n所以我呼籲科智恩、昭緯要珍惜人民賦予的權利今天不應該進入法條的審查那如果這項法條那麼具有公義性那大家搶後提而來不及為什麼會淪落到今天這種地步就連國民黨的教文的昭緯跟國民黨的教文委員都不願意提案只有幾個從國會擴權惡法一路惡搞台灣到今天的戰鬥欄有提\n\n01:04.679 --> 01:12.685\n所以我再次喊話克珍、昭緯今天真的不該進入法條的審查。尋答結束,我覺得就應該散會。放過人民,放過台灣,尊重專業。昨晚公民團體與群眾在立法院外濟南路集結,舉辦反對核電研議拒絕草率修法的晚會。\n\n01:27.296 --> 01:53.676\n那表達拒絕核管法草率修法有訴求我想今天本席要針對這一連串這個修法的這個提案版本來做一些批判首先我想請教核安會主委核安會作為把關這個國內核能電廠安全監督的機關除了確保運轉當下的安全性當然我們更不能忽略就是未來的安全性那我國核電廠從1980年代前後商轉至今\n\n01:57.459 --> 02:16.998\n三座核電廠各機組都有40年左右的歷史依照核管法第六條的規定本來就應該在運轉期限屆期前重新進行安全的評估否則就依法要停止運轉來著手所謂的除役的作業\n\n02:17.799 --> 02:37.856\n那核管法制定當初就有這一層40年的限制的安全考量以及在運轉有效借期前5年到15年的換照申請的法定期間所以請教主委這些是否是為了核能發電的未來安全性的考量而定的\n\n02:38.456 --> 02:47.161\n那面對核能這麼一個謹慎掌控風險的能源,主委你是不是同意這些年限的限制是合理的?\n\n02:49.003 --> 03:14.778\n完全合理五年到前15年美國是前5年到前20年我們其實是比照國際的經驗其實在過去馬政府執政時期的2009年台電就已經提出核一廠一號機及二號機的研議申請只是他截至2016年的2月他提出到\n\n03:17.259 --> 03:34.266\n例經近7年,台電公司能有7項的議題沒有提出相關的評估或改善結果的答覆說明所以從這個歷史前提我們可以看得出來核電研議的審查需要時間就如同過去主委你也常常\n\n03:37.047 --> 03:47.214\n這個問題是相當複雜以至於多年過去核電廠研議的審查都沒有下文最後的結果就是台電撤回研議的申請那再來同樣是一份歷史的回顧2011年馬前總統召開能源政策記者會的時候他曾經宣布\n\n03:57.481 --> 04:01.687\n核一、核二、核三將不再研議並強調以積極務實跟負責的態度逐步邁向非核家園現在各個國民黨紛紛提出核電要研議的修法完完全全就是在穿越時空打臉\n\n04:14.785 --> 04:23.754\n馬前總統非核家園不但是環境基本法的明文目標也是這幾任總統通通有宣示過的內容況且核電的研議有安全性的問題我們必須要先停機檢修才符合所謂繼續運轉的能量\n\n04:38.008 --> 04:55.796\n那可是檢修需要耗費好幾年的時間跟龐大的預算那綜合前面所說的提出申請審核需要時間停機檢修需要時間更新機組也需要時間那所以核三機組的停機在即的現在我們要求\n\n04:56.943 --> 05:21.677\n不停止運轉而研議等於是擔著核電廠超時服役的更高風險所以我們根本沒有這樣的本錢去承受所以本席在前一次核安會的質詢中我就提出質疑說研議到底需要多少的成本那根本沒有辦法平衡這個永和人士口中所謂的便宜電價這次我們簡單就問一下主委跟次長好了\n\n05:22.017 --> 05:27.006\n最近一次即將停機的這個核三廠一號機檢修時間需要多少時間?還有在現行條件下如果重啟這個營運那維修成本又需要多少?簡單回答\n\n05:38.055 --> 06:01.692\n就目前來講最快最快要5年了那有可能是因為剛才講的因為你可能如果你要停了之後要再運轉它有很多很多複雜的問題像剛才包括燃料這些低階燃料要怎麼去處理等等還有一些機構安全的問題這些如果又再平復完之後我想最快是5年最長搞不好要拖到10年以上對這是時間嘛那整個的成本呢需要花的經費的成本呢\n\n06:07.136 --> 06:27.326\n因為這個成本我們是目前是沒有去估計的應該因為第一個我們沒有去做檢查嘛是也沒有去評估說哪邊還要再去重置嘛那再來就是說如果這個時間是拖到5年10年那對於我們整個在能源的供應上其實是緩不濟急的所以說我們在做整個能源供應的時候我們要用最\n\n06:28.146 --> 06:47.514\n最嚴格的一個環境的一個設置條件我不能把這個就講說它一定是存在那這樣對於我的能源供應是一個存在一個大的漏洞所以我們一定是要把說那我非核我執行下去那我整個能源我要怎麼再去接上來那這樣對於整個國家在能源供應上才是一個最好的一個\n\n06:48.354 --> 06:59.201\n好所以在次長您的說法之下就是說核電真的經濟嗎?真的穩定嗎?那我想這是大大的懷疑啦齁那好那另外我想預期啦齁搶著這個討論核電再運轉那是不是來討論核廢處置廠比較務實一點喔好我們請教主委跟次長就全世界有哪個國家在核電廠營運三四十年之後還沒有興建核廢竿組設施的\n\n07:19.195 --> 07:44.908\n我的理解是沒有沒有國家沒有國家只有台灣只有台灣就只有台灣所以在安全把關的考量下必須要先討論核廢料的處理嘛所以在座請教主委跟次長就使用核電的前提是不是得先安全的處理核廢料是嗎好那所以最後啦我想核廢的事情沒辦法處理\n\n07:46.252 --> 08:00.997\n社會也沒有辦法達到共識核能安全也沒辦法掌握那我想討論今天的這個議題完全都是空談所以我再次重申本席的立場不能讓今天的決定成為明天的困境任何人都不該用政治來決定安全這件事情\n\n08:03.078 --> 08:18.023\n所以昨天公民集結學者與各界的代表一個一個宣講表達拒絕核電的訴求核電再運轉這絕對真的不是一條可行的道路所以拜託我們主委跟次長好好的把關謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.895,"end":9.267,"text":"謝謝主席 有請陳竺偉跟經濟部連次長"},{"start":15.086,"end":34.85,"text":"林委員早我想首先我先要向柯之恩召委喊話一下核能安全、核廢處理跟社會共識這三大要件都不可偏廢我想在這三大要件之前還沒有完備之前我們沒有任何透過修法要求繼續使用核電的正當性所以我堅決反對外行的立法來干涉專業的核能安全的審查"},{"start":39.491,"end":59.797,"text":"所以我呼籲科智恩、昭緯要珍惜人民賦予的權利今天不應該進入法條的審查那如果這項法條那麼具有公義性那大家搶後提而來不及為什麼會淪落到今天這種地步就連國民黨的教文的昭緯跟國民黨的教文委員都不願意提案只有幾個從國會擴權惡法一路惡搞台灣到今天的戰鬥欄有提"},{"start":64.679,"end":72.685,"text":"所以我再次喊話克珍、昭緯今天真的不該進入法條的審查。尋答結束,我覺得就應該散會。放過人民,放過台灣,尊重專業。昨晚公民團體與群眾在立法院外濟南路集結,舉辦反對核電研議拒絕草率修法的晚會。"},{"start":87.296,"end":113.676,"text":"那表達拒絕核管法草率修法有訴求我想今天本席要針對這一連串這個修法的這個提案版本來做一些批判首先我想請教核安會主委核安會作為把關這個國內核能電廠安全監督的機關除了確保運轉當下的安全性當然我們更不能忽略就是未來的安全性那我國核電廠從1980年代前後商轉至今"},{"start":117.459,"end":136.998,"text":"三座核電廠各機組都有40年左右的歷史依照核管法第六條的規定本來就應該在運轉期限屆期前重新進行安全的評估否則就依法要停止運轉來著手所謂的除役的作業"},{"start":137.799,"end":157.856,"text":"那核管法制定當初就有這一層40年的限制的安全考量以及在運轉有效借期前5年到15年的換照申請的法定期間所以請教主委這些是否是為了核能發電的未來安全性的考量而定的"},{"start":158.456,"end":167.161,"text":"那面對核能這麼一個謹慎掌控風險的能源,主委你是不是同意這些年限的限制是合理的?"},{"start":169.003,"end":194.778,"text":"完全合理五年到前15年美國是前5年到前20年我們其實是比照國際的經驗其實在過去馬政府執政時期的2009年台電就已經提出核一廠一號機及二號機的研議申請只是他截至2016年的2月他提出到"},{"start":197.259,"end":214.266,"text":"例經近7年,台電公司能有7項的議題沒有提出相關的評估或改善結果的答覆說明所以從這個歷史前提我們可以看得出來核電研議的審查需要時間就如同過去主委你也常常"},{"start":217.047,"end":227.214,"text":"這個問題是相當複雜以至於多年過去核電廠研議的審查都沒有下文最後的結果就是台電撤回研議的申請那再來同樣是一份歷史的回顧2011年馬前總統召開能源政策記者會的時候他曾經宣布"},{"start":237.481,"end":241.687,"text":"核一、核二、核三將不再研議並強調以積極務實跟負責的態度逐步邁向非核家園現在各個國民黨紛紛提出核電要研議的修法完完全全就是在穿越時空打臉"},{"start":254.785,"end":263.754,"text":"馬前總統非核家園不但是環境基本法的明文目標也是這幾任總統通通有宣示過的內容況且核電的研議有安全性的問題我們必須要先停機檢修才符合所謂繼續運轉的能量"},{"start":278.008,"end":295.796,"text":"那可是檢修需要耗費好幾年的時間跟龐大的預算那綜合前面所說的提出申請審核需要時間停機檢修需要時間更新機組也需要時間那所以核三機組的停機在即的現在我們要求"},{"start":296.943,"end":321.677,"text":"不停止運轉而研議等於是擔著核電廠超時服役的更高風險所以我們根本沒有這樣的本錢去承受所以本席在前一次核安會的質詢中我就提出質疑說研議到底需要多少的成本那根本沒有辦法平衡這個永和人士口中所謂的便宜電價這次我們簡單就問一下主委跟次長好了"},{"start":322.017,"end":327.006,"text":"最近一次即將停機的這個核三廠一號機檢修時間需要多少時間?還有在現行條件下如果重啟這個營運那維修成本又需要多少?簡單回答"},{"start":338.055,"end":361.692,"text":"就目前來講最快最快要5年了那有可能是因為剛才講的因為你可能如果你要停了之後要再運轉它有很多很多複雜的問題像剛才包括燃料這些低階燃料要怎麼去處理等等還有一些機構安全的問題這些如果又再平復完之後我想最快是5年最長搞不好要拖到10年以上對這是時間嘛那整個的成本呢需要花的經費的成本呢"},{"start":367.136,"end":387.326,"text":"因為這個成本我們是目前是沒有去估計的應該因為第一個我們沒有去做檢查嘛是也沒有去評估說哪邊還要再去重置嘛那再來就是說如果這個時間是拖到5年10年那對於我們整個在能源的供應上其實是緩不濟急的所以說我們在做整個能源供應的時候我們要用最"},{"start":388.146,"end":407.514,"text":"最嚴格的一個環境的一個設置條件我不能把這個就講說它一定是存在那這樣對於我的能源供應是一個存在一個大的漏洞所以我們一定是要把說那我非核我執行下去那我整個能源我要怎麼再去接上來那這樣對於整個國家在能源供應上才是一個最好的一個"},{"start":408.354,"end":419.201,"text":"好 所以在次長您的說法之下就是說核電真的經濟嗎?真的穩定嗎?那我想這是大大的懷疑啦齁那好 那另外我想預期啦齁搶著這個討論核電再運轉那是不是來討論核廢處置廠比較務實一點喔好 我們請教主委跟次長就全世界有哪個國家在核電廠營運三四十年之後還沒有興建核廢竿組設施的"},{"start":439.195,"end":464.908,"text":"我的理解是沒有沒有國家沒有國家只有台灣只有台灣就只有台灣所以在安全把關的考量下必須要先討論核廢料的處理嘛所以在座請教主委跟次長就使用核電的前提是不是得先安全的處理核廢料是嗎好那所以最後啦我想核廢的事情沒辦法處理"},{"start":466.252,"end":480.997,"text":"社會也沒有辦法達到共識 核能安全也沒辦法掌握那我想討論今天的這個議題 完全都是空談所以我再次重申本席的立場不能讓今天的決定成為明天的困境任何人都不該用政治來決定安全這件事情"},{"start":483.078,"end":498.023,"text":"所以昨天公民集結學者與各界的代表一個一個宣講表達拒絕核電的訴求核電再運轉這絕對真的不是一條可行的道路所以拜託我們主委跟次長好好的把關 謝謝"}]}}}}