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141.027, \"end\": 141.367, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 141.367, \"end\": 141.527, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 141.527, \"end\": 141.868, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 141.868, \"end\": 142.088, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"燃\", \"start\": 142.088, \"end\": 142.228, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 142.228, \"end\": 142.408, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"棒\", \"start\": 142.408, \"end\": 142.568, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 142.568, \"end\": 142.708, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 142.708, \"end\": 142.848, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 142.848, \"end\": 143.108, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 143.108, \"end\": 143.248, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"退\", \"start\": 143.248, \"end\": 143.429, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 143.429, \"end\": 143.549, 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\"end\": 502.599, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 504.64, \"end\": 504.821, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 504.821, \"end\": 505.041, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 505.041, \"end\": 505.482, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 505.482, \"end\": 505.802, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 505.802, \"end\": 505.883, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 505.883, \"end\": 506.343, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 506.343, \"end\": 507.085, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 507.085, \"end\": 508.007, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 508.007, \"end\": 508.848, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 508.848, \"end\": 508.988, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 508.988, \"end\": 509.149, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 509.149, \"end\": 509.309, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 509.309, \"end\": 509.83, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 509.83, \"end\": 510.03, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 510.03, \"end\": 511.012, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 511.012, \"end\": 511.473, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 511.473, \"end\": 511.794, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 511.794, \"end\": 511.954, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 511.954, \"end\": 512.655, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 512.655, \"end\": 512.755, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 512.755, \"end\": 512.876, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 512.876, \"end\": 513.096, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 513.096, \"end\": 513.256, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 513.256, \"end\": 513.376, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 513.376, \"end\": 513.517, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 513.517, \"end\": 513.617, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 513.617, \"end\": 513.757, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 513.757, \"end\": 513.978, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 513.978, \"end\": 514.198, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 514.198, \"end\": 514.218, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:13,079\n本席宣布我們在羅廷惠委員質詢完畢之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們讓他喝口水好了好我們有請主委謝謝好請主委謝謝張委員早好主委請教你今天是坐公務車來立法院的嗎是的那你知道我們公務車是有一個汰換年限的嗎\n\n2\n00:00:27,958 --> 00:00:45,128\n根據足跡總署的規定,公務車使用滿15年或行駛里程數超過25萬公里就可以辦理汰換,主要也是考量到安全性這件事情。現在大家有辦法想像嗎?一台車零40年的老車,就像我們的河山場,\n\n3\n00:00:46,189 --> 00:01:08,028\n他的舊時的製造規格沒有經過嚴謹的這個耐撞測試就有可能會造成我們的一些使用上面行車上面的風險大家敢讓這樣大家敢在沒有確認安全無疑的狀況之下沒有嚴謹的安全檢查之下大家敢開這台車上路嗎我想這大家應該是非常清楚大家不會把自己的生命拿來當開玩笑\n\n4\n00:01:08,829 --> 00:01:31,650\n所以今天在討論核二、核三的這些要不要解套的法案之前我們必須非常清楚的確認有沒有核能安全有沒有符合安全性這必須做一個務實的討論所以我們可以看到就是說從鈾礦開採到核電廚藝其實都有核廢料最久持續一萬年那在台灣我們會要處理的就是低階核廢料也就是說這些被污染的衣服、工具、建築體\n\n5\n00:01:32,955 --> 00:01:56,531\n那再來就是高階的核廢料燃料棒所以呢我想我們就先來處理這兩個部分因為這是在台灣我們必須面對的問題那在高階核廢料呢現在呢據我得到的資料在失事儲存的狀況核一、核二現在是滿存的那核三呢空間有限那爐心呢核一還有724宿核二還有1248宿\n\n6\n00:02:00,794 --> 00:02:23,569\n我想問主委,全世界哪一個國家核電廠經用了40年,燃料棒還無法處理,還無法退出的?有嗎?全世界現在沒有國家是這個樣子啦。完全沒有對不對?大概只有台灣。只有台灣嘛,好。那再來為什麼呢?為什麼我們會造成這樣子的問題呢?主委可以幫我們做個說明嗎?為什麼一直還在燃料棒裡面沒有辦法退出來勒?\n\n7\n00:02:24,779 --> 00:02:46,528\n我想地方政府的態度啦,那麼有一些民意的難度嘛。民意的抗爭嘛,對不對?大家都不希望核的廢料放在自己家旁邊嘛,大家都有安全的顧慮嘛,對不對?好,所以至少我得到的資料是核一要到年底才有可能啟用開工,對不對?那核二要到使用大概要至少五年,我這個資料是正確的嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:49,335 --> 00:03:12,416\n最快最快核二大概要在三年,那那個年底啟用核一可能要到明年,明年中。好,了解。好,那但是我們核三我所得到的資料是現在是沒有的,而且最終處置廠現在也是沒有著落的。那我想請教主委,全世界哪一個國家用了核電廠40年還沒有這些乾除設置?\n\n9\n00:03:14,986 --> 00:03:36,599\n沒有,就只有台灣吧。也還是只有台灣嘛,對不對?好,所以我們現在如果要去處理這個核廢料,我們如果要解套的話,我們就必須解決核廢料的問題嘛,對不對?所以啊,從你的安全性的專業,我們現在喔,如果沒有辦法處理核廢料,我們可以來討論再度啟用或研議這個事情嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:38,169 --> 00:04:05,949\n以核二廠來講是完全沒有辦法因為燃料在爐心沒辦法拿出來然後這個燃料池已經接近額滿所以它就是沒辦法燃出來我沒辦法放新的燃料下去那核三廠其實有限大概在幾年的運轉的期間但是我們現在也還沒有乾除嘛對不對都沒有嘛所以我們現在基本上現在修了這個法能夠解套解決我們核廢料的問題嗎\n\n11\n00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:25,006\n最終處置場的問題嗎?竿儲必須興建,我剛才在報告裡面有underline竿儲必須興建,不管將來是要儲役或延役,竿儲都必須興建但是我們現在法其實也沒有去處理這個高階和廢料的選址嗎?對不對?\n\n12\n00:04:28,649 --> 00:04:48,202\n我們現在是沒有了嘛,所以我們根本沒有解決核廢料的處置問題嘛,這個問題沒有辦法解決的話,我們現在在做什麼任何的討論,其實都是違反安全的原則再來就是低階的部分,就是在被汙染的衣服跟工具建築體的這些低階的核廢料根據低放射性的廢棄物處置\n\n13\n00:04:49,904 --> 00:05:07,760\n設施管制法第六條條文修正草案經濟部其實曾經建議過兩個候選場址需要辦地方公投,當時是選在台東達仁與金門烏丘。我想要了解這兩個地方發生了什麼事情,為什麼我們到現在還是放在蘭嶼的暫時儲存場還有三座核電廠內跟核驗所內呢?\n\n14\n00:05:11,466 --> 00:05:27,597\n根據這個條例必須要通過地方的公投,那兩個縣政府,臺東縣政府跟金門縣政府都是愛南同意,就是他沒有辦法辦理,那這個就是到現在沒辦法公投。\n\n15\n00:05:29,158 --> 00:05:45,078\n所以就是無解嘛對不對就算是連第一階段我們都無解嘛就是無法處理啊那其實中研院其實在2022年11月有發布一個臺灣淨零科技研發政策建議書就有提到核電的主力最大主力就是放射性廢棄物的最終組織場\n\n16\n00:05:47,080 --> 00:06:06,298\n所以這個地方其實還有非常大的一個挑戰我們必須要來解決那再來就是一軍核電廠的一個報告核三廠東側緊鄰恆春活動斷層西側外海也有逆沖斷層所以之前也有考慮到這些地震可能會造成的一些問題那我想要請教主委到底這個地方\n\n17\n00:06:07,259 --> 00:06:17,581\n假設我們都沒有做任何確認發生事故的話他會被影響到我們住在高雄地區的人民的一些可能空氣啦飲用水啊等等的問題可不可以請你就轉眼給我們一個說明\n\n18\n00:06:18,973 --> 00:06:44,092\n那個地震其實是有一些潛在的威脅那主要是看震源那如果震源是在接近這個比如三角斷層、橫沿斷層那這個部分我們會相對的比較憂心那麼河岸會對這個耐震有做了一些處置但是天然災害有不可預測性那麼我們必須謹慎為之\n\n19\n00:06:46,757 --> 00:07:03,172\n那我想因為其實這個聽起來就是說如果這個地震可能還是一個存在的隱憂嘛對不對那他如果不小心真的向外洩他其實對我們都要使用的農產品也好或食用水也好可能都會造成影響所以我想要講的一件事情就是說我們每一個人其實都生活在這塊土地上面\n\n20\n00:07:04,434 --> 00:07:30,053\n我們的小孩、我們未來的子子孫孫世世代代都會居住在台灣這個土地上面如果我們今天沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有辦法處理好安全這個問題我們就要進入修法來讓核二跟核三可以進入解套的話那其實我覺得我們對這個我們等於沒有在為安全跟人民的性命來做一個把關齁那國民黨口口聲聲說要這個為能源政策提出一個解方齁\n\n21\n00:07:30,854 --> 00:07:55,299\n但是這整個過程之中今天如果下午就要排定修法這是一個這麼爭議性的一個法案我們沒有經過任何的公聽會的討論那我想這個程序上面我覺得是有非常大的問題例如像我們過去國民黨從在這個國會擴權惡法到選罷法到現在我們都不做任何討論嗎?我們都沒有要傾聽任何的民意嗎?我們完全不顧人們的性命安全嗎?\n\n22\n00:07:57,423 --> 00:08:22,599\n我們到底有沒有把人民放在心中我們每一位立委的選票都是從人民的手上得來的我們每一個人都是帶著人民的寄託跟期待和使命來到了立法院我們不該做傷害人民的事情即便今天政黨立場不同人民的生命都不該成為政治鬥爭的犧牲品所以我要建請我們的總召委\n\n23\n00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:34,218\n在今天我們不要進入逐條審查讓我們好好的請聽民意來回應我們人民來好好的為我們人民的生命做個把關謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t13079\t本席宣布我們在羅廷惠委員質詢完畢之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們讓他喝口水好了好我們有請主委謝謝好請主委謝謝張委員早好主委請教你今天是坐公務車來立法院的嗎是的那你知道我們公務車是有一個汰換年限的嗎\n27958\t45128\t根據足跡總署的規定,公務車使用滿15年或行駛里程數超過25萬公里就可以辦理汰換,主要也是考量到安全性這件事情。現在大家有辦法想像嗎?一台車零40年的老車,就像我們的河山場,\n46189\t68028\t他的舊時的製造規格沒有經過嚴謹的這個耐撞測試就有可能會造成我們的一些使用上面行車上面的風險大家敢讓這樣大家敢在沒有確認安全無疑的狀況之下沒有嚴謹的安全檢查之下大家敢開這台車上路嗎我想這大家應該是非常清楚大家不會把自己的生命拿來當開玩笑\n68829\t91650\t所以今天在討論核二、核三的這些要不要解套的法案之前我們必須非常清楚的確認有沒有核能安全有沒有符合安全性這必須做一個務實的討論所以我們可以看到就是說從鈾礦開採到核電廚藝其實都有核廢料最久持續一萬年那在台灣我們會要處理的就是低階核廢料也就是說這些被污染的衣服、工具、建築體\n92955\t116531\t那再來就是高階的核廢料燃料棒所以呢我想我們就先來處理這兩個部分因為這是在台灣我們必須面對的問題那在高階核廢料呢現在呢據我得到的資料在失事儲存的狀況核一、核二現在是滿存的那核三呢空間有限那爐心呢核一還有724宿核二還有1248宿\n120794\t143569\t我想問主委,全世界哪一個國家核電廠經用了40年,燃料棒還無法處理,還無法退出的?有嗎?全世界現在沒有國家是這個樣子啦。完全沒有對不對?大概只有台灣。只有台灣嘛,好。那再來為什麼呢?為什麼我們會造成這樣子的問題呢?主委可以幫我們做個說明嗎?為什麼一直還在燃料棒裡面沒有辦法退出來勒?\n144779\t166528\t我想地方政府的態度啦,那麼有一些民意的難度嘛。民意的抗爭嘛,對不對?大家都不希望核的廢料放在自己家旁邊嘛,大家都有安全的顧慮嘛,對不對?好,所以至少我得到的資料是核一要到年底才有可能啟用開工,對不對?那核二要到使用大概要至少五年,我這個資料是正確的嗎?\n169335\t192416\t最快最快核二大概要在三年,那那個年底啟用核一可能要到明年,明年中。好,了解。好,那但是我們核三我所得到的資料是現在是沒有的,而且最終處置廠現在也是沒有著落的。那我想請教主委,全世界哪一個國家用了核電廠40年還沒有這些乾除設置?\n194986\t216599\t沒有,就只有台灣吧。也還是只有台灣嘛,對不對?好,所以我們現在如果要去處理這個核廢料,我們如果要解套的話,我們就必須解決核廢料的問題嘛,對不對?所以啊,從你的安全性的專業,我們現在喔,如果沒有辦法處理核廢料,我們可以來討論再度啟用或研議這個事情嗎?\n218169\t245949\t以核二廠來講是完全沒有辦法因為燃料在爐心沒辦法拿出來然後這個燃料池已經接近額滿所以它就是沒辦法燃出來我沒辦法放新的燃料下去那核三廠其實有限大概在幾年的運轉的期間但是我們現在也還沒有乾除嘛對不對都沒有嘛所以我們現在基本上現在修了這個法能夠解套解決我們核廢料的問題嗎\n247230\t265006\t最終處置場的問題嗎?竿儲必須興建,我剛才在報告裡面有underline竿儲必須興建,不管將來是要儲役或延役,竿儲都必須興建但是我們現在法其實也沒有去處理這個高階和廢料的選址嗎?對不對?\n268649\t288202\t我們現在是沒有了嘛,所以我們根本沒有解決核廢料的處置問題嘛,這個問題沒有辦法解決的話,我們現在在做什麼任何的討論,其實都是違反安全的原則再來就是低階的部分,就是在被汙染的衣服跟工具建築體的這些低階的核廢料根據低放射性的廢棄物處置\n289904\t307760\t設施管制法第六條條文修正草案 經濟部其實曾經建議過兩個候選場址需要辦地方公投,當時是選在台東達仁與金門烏丘。我想要了解這兩個地方發生了什麼事情,為什麼我們到現在還是放在蘭嶼的暫時儲存場還有三座核電廠內跟核驗所內呢?\n311466\t327597\t根據這個條例必須要通過地方的公投,那兩個縣政府,臺東縣政府跟金門縣政府都是愛南同意,就是他沒有辦法辦理,那這個就是到現在沒辦法公投。\n329158\t345078\t所以就是無解嘛對不對就算是連第一階段我們都無解嘛就是無法處理啊那其實中研院其實在2022年11月有發布一個臺灣淨零科技研發政策建議書就有提到核電的主力最大主力就是放射性廢棄物的最終組織場\n347080\t366298\t所以這個地方其實還有非常大的一個挑戰我們必須要來解決那再來就是一軍核電廠的一個報告核三廠東側緊鄰恆春活動斷層西側外海也有逆沖斷層所以之前也有考慮到這些地震可能會造成的一些問題那我想要請教主委到底這個地方\n367259\t377581\t假設我們都沒有做任何確認發生事故的話他會被影響到我們住在高雄地區的人民的一些可能空氣啦飲用水啊等等的問題可不可以請你就轉眼給我們一個說明\n378973\t404092\t那個地震其實是有一些潛在的威脅那主要是看震源那如果震源是在接近這個比如三角斷層、橫沿斷層那這個部分我們會相對的比較憂心那麼河岸會對這個耐震有做了一些處置但是天然災害有不可預測性那麼我們必須謹慎為之\n406757\t423172\t那我想因為其實這個聽起來就是說如果這個地震可能還是一個存在的隱憂嘛對不對那他如果不小心真的向外洩他其實對我們都要使用的農產品也好或食用水也好可能都會造成影響所以我想要講的一件事情就是說我們每一個人其實都生活在這塊土地上面\n424434\t450053\t我們的小孩、我們未來的子子孫孫世世代代都會居住在台灣這個土地上面如果我們今天沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有辦法處理好安全這個問題我們就要進入修法來讓核二跟核三可以進入解套的話那其實我覺得我們對這個我們等於沒有在為安全跟人民的性命來做一個把關齁那國民黨口口聲聲說要這個為能源政策提出一個解方齁\n450854\t475299\t但是這整個過程之中今天如果下午就要排定修法這是一個這麼爭議性的一個法案我們沒有經過任何的公聽會的討論那我想這個程序上面我覺得是有非常大的問題例如像我們過去國民黨從在這個國會擴權惡法到選罷法到現在我們都不做任何討論嗎?我們都沒有要傾聽任何的民意嗎?我們完全不顧人們的性命安全嗎?\n477423\t502599\t我們到底有沒有把人民放在心中我們每一位立委的選票都是從人民的手上得來的我們每一個人都是帶著人民的寄託跟期待和使命來到了立法院我們不該做傷害人民的事情即便今天政黨立場不同人民的生命都不該成為政治鬥爭的犧牲品所以我要建請我們的總召委\n504640\t514218\t在今天我們不要進入逐條審查讓我們好好的請聽民意來回應我們人民來好好的為我們人民的生命做個把關謝謝\n","txt":"本席宣布我們在羅廷惠委員質詢完畢之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們讓他喝口水好了好我們有請主委謝謝好請主委謝謝張委員早好主委請教你今天是坐公務車來立法院的嗎是的那你知道我們公務車是有一個汰換年限的嗎\n根據足跡總署的規定,公務車使用滿15年或行駛里程數超過25萬公里就可以辦理汰換,主要也是考量到安全性這件事情。現在大家有辦法想像嗎?一台車零40年的老車,就像我們的河山場,\n他的舊時的製造規格沒有經過嚴謹的這個耐撞測試就有可能會造成我們的一些使用上面行車上面的風險大家敢讓這樣大家敢在沒有確認安全無疑的狀況之下沒有嚴謹的安全檢查之下大家敢開這台車上路嗎我想這大家應該是非常清楚大家不會把自己的生命拿來當開玩笑\n所以今天在討論核二、核三的這些要不要解套的法案之前我們必須非常清楚的確認有沒有核能安全有沒有符合安全性這必須做一個務實的討論所以我們可以看到就是說從鈾礦開採到核電廚藝其實都有核廢料最久持續一萬年那在台灣我們會要處理的就是低階核廢料也就是說這些被污染的衣服、工具、建築體\n那再來就是高階的核廢料燃料棒所以呢我想我們就先來處理這兩個部分因為這是在台灣我們必須面對的問題那在高階核廢料呢現在呢據我得到的資料在失事儲存的狀況核一、核二現在是滿存的那核三呢空間有限那爐心呢核一還有724宿核二還有1248宿\n我想問主委,全世界哪一個國家核電廠經用了40年,燃料棒還無法處理,還無法退出的?有嗎?全世界現在沒有國家是這個樣子啦。完全沒有對不對?大概只有台灣。只有台灣嘛,好。那再來為什麼呢?為什麼我們會造成這樣子的問題呢?主委可以幫我們做個說明嗎?為什麼一直還在燃料棒裡面沒有辦法退出來勒?\n我想地方政府的態度啦,那麼有一些民意的難度嘛。民意的抗爭嘛,對不對?大家都不希望核的廢料放在自己家旁邊嘛,大家都有安全的顧慮嘛,對不對?好,所以至少我得到的資料是核一要到年底才有可能啟用開工,對不對?那核二要到使用大概要至少五年,我這個資料是正確的嗎?\n最快最快核二大概要在三年,那那個年底啟用核一可能要到明年,明年中。好,了解。好,那但是我們核三我所得到的資料是現在是沒有的,而且最終處置廠現在也是沒有著落的。那我想請教主委,全世界哪一個國家用了核電廠40年還沒有這些乾除設置?\n沒有,就只有台灣吧。也還是只有台灣嘛,對不對?好,所以我們現在如果要去處理這個核廢料,我們如果要解套的話,我們就必須解決核廢料的問題嘛,對不對?所以啊,從你的安全性的專業,我們現在喔,如果沒有辦法處理核廢料,我們可以來討論再度啟用或研議這個事情嗎?\n以核二廠來講是完全沒有辦法因為燃料在爐心沒辦法拿出來然後這個燃料池已經接近額滿所以它就是沒辦法燃出來我沒辦法放新的燃料下去那核三廠其實有限大概在幾年的運轉的期間但是我們現在也還沒有乾除嘛對不對都沒有嘛所以我們現在基本上現在修了這個法能夠解套解決我們核廢料的問題嗎\n最終處置場的問題嗎?竿儲必須興建,我剛才在報告裡面有underline竿儲必須興建,不管將來是要儲役或延役,竿儲都必須興建但是我們現在法其實也沒有去處理這個高階和廢料的選址嗎?對不對?\n我們現在是沒有了嘛,所以我們根本沒有解決核廢料的處置問題嘛,這個問題沒有辦法解決的話,我們現在在做什麼任何的討論,其實都是違反安全的原則再來就是低階的部分,就是在被汙染的衣服跟工具建築體的這些低階的核廢料根據低放射性的廢棄物處置\n設施管制法第六條條文修正草案 經濟部其實曾經建議過兩個候選場址需要辦地方公投,當時是選在台東達仁與金門烏丘。我想要了解這兩個地方發生了什麼事情,為什麼我們到現在還是放在蘭嶼的暫時儲存場還有三座核電廠內跟核驗所內呢?\n根據這個條例必須要通過地方的公投,那兩個縣政府,臺東縣政府跟金門縣政府都是愛南同意,就是他沒有辦法辦理,那這個就是到現在沒辦法公投。\n所以就是無解嘛對不對就算是連第一階段我們都無解嘛就是無法處理啊那其實中研院其實在2022年11月有發布一個臺灣淨零科技研發政策建議書就有提到核電的主力最大主力就是放射性廢棄物的最終組織場\n所以這個地方其實還有非常大的一個挑戰我們必須要來解決那再來就是一軍核電廠的一個報告核三廠東側緊鄰恆春活動斷層西側外海也有逆沖斷層所以之前也有考慮到這些地震可能會造成的一些問題那我想要請教主委到底這個地方\n假設我們都沒有做任何確認發生事故的話他會被影響到我們住在高雄地區的人民的一些可能空氣啦飲用水啊等等的問題可不可以請你就轉眼給我們一個說明\n那個地震其實是有一些潛在的威脅那主要是看震源那如果震源是在接近這個比如三角斷層、橫沿斷層那這個部分我們會相對的比較憂心那麼河岸會對這個耐震有做了一些處置但是天然災害有不可預測性那麼我們必須謹慎為之\n那我想因為其實這個聽起來就是說如果這個地震可能還是一個存在的隱憂嘛對不對那他如果不小心真的向外洩他其實對我們都要使用的農產品也好或食用水也好可能都會造成影響所以我想要講的一件事情就是說我們每一個人其實都生活在這塊土地上面\n我們的小孩、我們未來的子子孫孫世世代代都會居住在台灣這個土地上面如果我們今天沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有辦法處理好安全這個問題我們就要進入修法來讓核二跟核三可以進入解套的話那其實我覺得我們對這個我們等於沒有在為安全跟人民的性命來做一個把關齁那國民黨口口聲聲說要這個為能源政策提出一個解方齁\n但是這整個過程之中今天如果下午就要排定修法這是一個這麼爭議性的一個法案我們沒有經過任何的公聽會的討論那我想這個程序上面我覺得是有非常大的問題例如像我們過去國民黨從在這個國會擴權惡法到選罷法到現在我們都不做任何討論嗎?我們都沒有要傾聽任何的民意嗎?我們完全不顧人們的性命安全嗎?\n我們到底有沒有把人民放在心中我們每一位立委的選票都是從人民的手上得來的我們每一個人都是帶著人民的寄託跟期待和使命來到了立法院我們不該做傷害人民的事情即便今天政黨立場不同人民的生命都不該成為政治鬥爭的犧牲品所以我要建請我們的總召委\n在今天我們不要進入逐條審查讓我們好好的請聽民意來回應我們人民來好好的為我們人民的生命做個把關謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:13.079\n本席宣布我們在羅廷惠委員質詢完畢之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們讓他喝口水好了好我們有請主委謝謝好請主委謝謝張委員早好主委請教你今天是坐公務車來立法院的嗎是的那你知道我們公務車是有一個汰換年限的嗎\n\n00:27.958 --> 00:45.128\n根據足跡總署的規定,公務車使用滿15年或行駛里程數超過25萬公里就可以辦理汰換,主要也是考量到安全性這件事情。現在大家有辦法想像嗎?一台車零40年的老車,就像我們的河山場,\n\n00:46.189 --> 01:08.028\n他的舊時的製造規格沒有經過嚴謹的這個耐撞測試就有可能會造成我們的一些使用上面行車上面的風險大家敢讓這樣大家敢在沒有確認安全無疑的狀況之下沒有嚴謹的安全檢查之下大家敢開這台車上路嗎我想這大家應該是非常清楚大家不會把自己的生命拿來當開玩笑\n\n01:08.829 --> 01:31.650\n所以今天在討論核二、核三的這些要不要解套的法案之前我們必須非常清楚的確認有沒有核能安全有沒有符合安全性這必須做一個務實的討論所以我們可以看到就是說從鈾礦開採到核電廚藝其實都有核廢料最久持續一萬年那在台灣我們會要處理的就是低階核廢料也就是說這些被污染的衣服、工具、建築體\n\n01:32.955 --> 01:56.531\n那再來就是高階的核廢料燃料棒所以呢我想我們就先來處理這兩個部分因為這是在台灣我們必須面對的問題那在高階核廢料呢現在呢據我得到的資料在失事儲存的狀況核一、核二現在是滿存的那核三呢空間有限那爐心呢核一還有724宿核二還有1248宿\n\n02:00.794 --> 02:23.569\n我想問主委,全世界哪一個國家核電廠經用了40年,燃料棒還無法處理,還無法退出的?有嗎?全世界現在沒有國家是這個樣子啦。完全沒有對不對?大概只有台灣。只有台灣嘛,好。那再來為什麼呢?為什麼我們會造成這樣子的問題呢?主委可以幫我們做個說明嗎?為什麼一直還在燃料棒裡面沒有辦法退出來勒?\n\n02:24.779 --> 02:46.528\n我想地方政府的態度啦,那麼有一些民意的難度嘛。民意的抗爭嘛,對不對?大家都不希望核的廢料放在自己家旁邊嘛,大家都有安全的顧慮嘛,對不對?好,所以至少我得到的資料是核一要到年底才有可能啟用開工,對不對?那核二要到使用大概要至少五年,我這個資料是正確的嗎?\n\n02:49.335 --> 03:12.416\n最快最快核二大概要在三年,那那個年底啟用核一可能要到明年,明年中。好,了解。好,那但是我們核三我所得到的資料是現在是沒有的,而且最終處置廠現在也是沒有著落的。那我想請教主委,全世界哪一個國家用了核電廠40年還沒有這些乾除設置?\n\n03:14.986 --> 03:36.599\n沒有,就只有台灣吧。也還是只有台灣嘛,對不對?好,所以我們現在如果要去處理這個核廢料,我們如果要解套的話,我們就必須解決核廢料的問題嘛,對不對?所以啊,從你的安全性的專業,我們現在喔,如果沒有辦法處理核廢料,我們可以來討論再度啟用或研議這個事情嗎?\n\n03:38.169 --> 04:05.949\n以核二廠來講是完全沒有辦法因為燃料在爐心沒辦法拿出來然後這個燃料池已經接近額滿所以它就是沒辦法燃出來我沒辦法放新的燃料下去那核三廠其實有限大概在幾年的運轉的期間但是我們現在也還沒有乾除嘛對不對都沒有嘛所以我們現在基本上現在修了這個法能夠解套解決我們核廢料的問題嗎\n\n04:07.230 --> 04:25.006\n最終處置場的問題嗎?竿儲必須興建,我剛才在報告裡面有underline竿儲必須興建,不管將來是要儲役或延役,竿儲都必須興建但是我們現在法其實也沒有去處理這個高階和廢料的選址嗎?對不對?\n\n04:28.649 --> 04:48.202\n我們現在是沒有了嘛,所以我們根本沒有解決核廢料的處置問題嘛,這個問題沒有辦法解決的話,我們現在在做什麼任何的討論,其實都是違反安全的原則再來就是低階的部分,就是在被汙染的衣服跟工具建築體的這些低階的核廢料根據低放射性的廢棄物處置\n\n04:49.904 --> 05:07.760\n設施管制法第六條條文修正草案經濟部其實曾經建議過兩個候選場址需要辦地方公投,當時是選在台東達仁與金門烏丘。我想要了解這兩個地方發生了什麼事情,為什麼我們到現在還是放在蘭嶼的暫時儲存場還有三座核電廠內跟核驗所內呢?\n\n05:11.466 --> 05:27.597\n根據這個條例必須要通過地方的公投,那兩個縣政府,臺東縣政府跟金門縣政府都是愛南同意,就是他沒有辦法辦理,那這個就是到現在沒辦法公投。\n\n05:29.158 --> 05:45.078\n所以就是無解嘛對不對就算是連第一階段我們都無解嘛就是無法處理啊那其實中研院其實在2022年11月有發布一個臺灣淨零科技研發政策建議書就有提到核電的主力最大主力就是放射性廢棄物的最終組織場\n\n05:47.080 --> 06:06.298\n所以這個地方其實還有非常大的一個挑戰我們必須要來解決那再來就是一軍核電廠的一個報告核三廠東側緊鄰恆春活動斷層西側外海也有逆沖斷層所以之前也有考慮到這些地震可能會造成的一些問題那我想要請教主委到底這個地方\n\n06:07.259 --> 06:17.581\n假設我們都沒有做任何確認發生事故的話他會被影響到我們住在高雄地區的人民的一些可能空氣啦飲用水啊等等的問題可不可以請你就轉眼給我們一個說明\n\n06:18.973 --> 06:44.092\n那個地震其實是有一些潛在的威脅那主要是看震源那如果震源是在接近這個比如三角斷層、橫沿斷層那這個部分我們會相對的比較憂心那麼河岸會對這個耐震有做了一些處置但是天然災害有不可預測性那麼我們必須謹慎為之\n\n06:46.757 --> 07:03.172\n那我想因為其實這個聽起來就是說如果這個地震可能還是一個存在的隱憂嘛對不對那他如果不小心真的向外洩他其實對我們都要使用的農產品也好或食用水也好可能都會造成影響所以我想要講的一件事情就是說我們每一個人其實都生活在這塊土地上面\n\n07:04.434 --> 07:30.053\n我們的小孩、我們未來的子子孫孫世世代代都會居住在台灣這個土地上面如果我們今天沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有辦法處理好安全這個問題我們就要進入修法來讓核二跟核三可以進入解套的話那其實我覺得我們對這個我們等於沒有在為安全跟人民的性命來做一個把關齁那國民黨口口聲聲說要這個為能源政策提出一個解方齁\n\n07:30.854 --> 07:55.299\n但是這整個過程之中今天如果下午就要排定修法這是一個這麼爭議性的一個法案我們沒有經過任何的公聽會的討論那我想這個程序上面我覺得是有非常大的問題例如像我們過去國民黨從在這個國會擴權惡法到選罷法到現在我們都不做任何討論嗎?我們都沒有要傾聽任何的民意嗎?我們完全不顧人們的性命安全嗎?\n\n07:57.423 --> 08:22.599\n我們到底有沒有把人民放在心中我們每一位立委的選票都是從人民的手上得來的我們每一個人都是帶著人民的寄託跟期待和使命來到了立法院我們不該做傷害人民的事情即便今天政黨立場不同人民的生命都不該成為政治鬥爭的犧牲品所以我要建請我們的總召委\n\n08:24.640 --> 08:34.218\n在今天我們不要進入逐條審查讓我們好好的請聽民意來回應我們人民來好好的為我們人民的生命做個把關謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":13.079,"text":"本席宣布我們在羅廷惠委員質詢完畢之後我們休息五分鐘謝謝謝謝主席我們讓他喝口水好了好我們有請主委謝謝好請主委謝謝張委員早好主委請教你今天是坐公務車來立法院的嗎是的那你知道我們公務車是有一個汰換年限的嗎"},{"start":27.958,"end":45.128,"text":"根據足跡總署的規定,公務車使用滿15年或行駛里程數超過25萬公里就可以辦理汰換,主要也是考量到安全性這件事情。現在大家有辦法想像嗎?一台車零40年的老車,就像我們的河山場,"},{"start":46.189,"end":68.028,"text":"他的舊時的製造規格沒有經過嚴謹的這個耐撞測試就有可能會造成我們的一些使用上面行車上面的風險大家敢讓這樣大家敢在沒有確認安全無疑的狀況之下沒有嚴謹的安全檢查之下大家敢開這台車上路嗎我想這大家應該是非常清楚大家不會把自己的生命拿來當開玩笑"},{"start":68.829,"end":91.65,"text":"所以今天在討論核二、核三的這些要不要解套的法案之前我們必須非常清楚的確認有沒有核能安全有沒有符合安全性這必須做一個務實的討論所以我們可以看到就是說從鈾礦開採到核電廚藝其實都有核廢料最久持續一萬年那在台灣我們會要處理的就是低階核廢料也就是說這些被污染的衣服、工具、建築體"},{"start":92.955,"end":116.531,"text":"那再來就是高階的核廢料燃料棒所以呢我想我們就先來處理這兩個部分因為這是在台灣我們必須面對的問題那在高階核廢料呢現在呢據我得到的資料在失事儲存的狀況核一、核二現在是滿存的那核三呢空間有限那爐心呢核一還有724宿核二還有1248宿"},{"start":120.794,"end":143.569,"text":"我想問主委,全世界哪一個國家核電廠經用了40年,燃料棒還無法處理,還無法退出的?有嗎?全世界現在沒有國家是這個樣子啦。完全沒有對不對?大概只有台灣。只有台灣嘛,好。那再來為什麼呢?為什麼我們會造成這樣子的問題呢?主委可以幫我們做個說明嗎?為什麼一直還在燃料棒裡面沒有辦法退出來勒?"},{"start":144.779,"end":166.528,"text":"我想地方政府的態度啦,那麼有一些民意的難度嘛。民意的抗爭嘛,對不對?大家都不希望核的廢料放在自己家旁邊嘛,大家都有安全的顧慮嘛,對不對?好,所以至少我得到的資料是核一要到年底才有可能啟用開工,對不對?那核二要到使用大概要至少五年,我這個資料是正確的嗎?"},{"start":169.335,"end":192.416,"text":"最快最快核二大概要在三年,那那個年底啟用核一可能要到明年,明年中。好,了解。好,那但是我們核三我所得到的資料是現在是沒有的,而且最終處置廠現在也是沒有著落的。那我想請教主委,全世界哪一個國家用了核電廠40年還沒有這些乾除設置?"},{"start":194.986,"end":216.599,"text":"沒有,就只有台灣吧。也還是只有台灣嘛,對不對?好,所以我們現在如果要去處理這個核廢料,我們如果要解套的話,我們就必須解決核廢料的問題嘛,對不對?所以啊,從你的安全性的專業,我們現在喔,如果沒有辦法處理核廢料,我們可以來討論再度啟用或研議這個事情嗎?"},{"start":218.169,"end":245.949,"text":"以核二廠來講是完全沒有辦法因為燃料在爐心沒辦法拿出來然後這個燃料池已經接近額滿所以它就是沒辦法燃出來我沒辦法放新的燃料下去那核三廠其實有限大概在幾年的運轉的期間但是我們現在也還沒有乾除嘛對不對都沒有嘛所以我們現在基本上現在修了這個法能夠解套解決我們核廢料的問題嗎"},{"start":247.23,"end":265.006,"text":"最終處置場的問題嗎?竿儲必須興建,我剛才在報告裡面有underline竿儲必須興建,不管將來是要儲役或延役,竿儲都必須興建但是我們現在法其實也沒有去處理這個高階和廢料的選址嗎?對不對?"},{"start":268.649,"end":288.202,"text":"我們現在是沒有了嘛,所以我們根本沒有解決核廢料的處置問題嘛,這個問題沒有辦法解決的話,我們現在在做什麼任何的討論,其實都是違反安全的原則再來就是低階的部分,就是在被汙染的衣服跟工具建築體的這些低階的核廢料根據低放射性的廢棄物處置"},{"start":289.904,"end":307.76,"text":"設施管制法第六條條文修正草案 經濟部其實曾經建議過兩個候選場址需要辦地方公投,當時是選在台東達仁與金門烏丘。我想要了解這兩個地方發生了什麼事情,為什麼我們到現在還是放在蘭嶼的暫時儲存場還有三座核電廠內跟核驗所內呢?"},{"start":311.466,"end":327.597,"text":"根據這個條例必須要通過地方的公投,那兩個縣政府,臺東縣政府跟金門縣政府都是愛南同意,就是他沒有辦法辦理,那這個就是到現在沒辦法公投。"},{"start":329.158,"end":345.078,"text":"所以就是無解嘛對不對就算是連第一階段我們都無解嘛就是無法處理啊那其實中研院其實在2022年11月有發布一個臺灣淨零科技研發政策建議書就有提到核電的主力最大主力就是放射性廢棄物的最終組織場"},{"start":347.08,"end":366.298,"text":"所以這個地方其實還有非常大的一個挑戰我們必須要來解決那再來就是一軍核電廠的一個報告核三廠東側緊鄰恆春活動斷層西側外海也有逆沖斷層所以之前也有考慮到這些地震可能會造成的一些問題那我想要請教主委到底這個地方"},{"start":367.259,"end":377.581,"text":"假設我們都沒有做任何確認發生事故的話他會被影響到我們住在高雄地區的人民的一些可能空氣啦飲用水啊等等的問題可不可以請你就轉眼給我們一個說明"},{"start":378.973,"end":404.092,"text":"那個地震其實是有一些潛在的威脅那主要是看震源那如果震源是在接近這個比如三角斷層、橫沿斷層那這個部分我們會相對的比較憂心那麼河岸會對這個耐震有做了一些處置但是天然災害有不可預測性那麼我們必須謹慎為之"},{"start":406.757,"end":423.172,"text":"那我想因為其實這個聽起來就是說如果這個地震可能還是一個存在的隱憂嘛對不對那他如果不小心真的向外洩他其實對我們都要使用的農產品也好或食用水也好可能都會造成影響所以我想要講的一件事情就是說我們每一個人其實都生活在這塊土地上面"},{"start":424.434,"end":450.053,"text":"我們的小孩、我們未來的子子孫孫世世代代都會居住在台灣這個土地上面如果我們今天沒有辦法解決核廢料沒有辦法處理好安全這個問題我們就要進入修法來讓核二跟核三可以進入解套的話那其實我覺得我們對這個我們等於沒有在為安全跟人民的性命來做一個把關齁那國民黨口口聲聲說要這個為能源政策提出一個解方齁"},{"start":450.854,"end":475.299,"text":"但是這整個過程之中今天如果下午就要排定修法這是一個這麼爭議性的一個法案我們沒有經過任何的公聽會的討論那我想這個程序上面我覺得是有非常大的問題例如像我們過去國民黨從在這個國會擴權惡法到選罷法到現在我們都不做任何討論嗎?我們都沒有要傾聽任何的民意嗎?我們完全不顧人們的性命安全嗎?"},{"start":477.423,"end":502.599,"text":"我們到底有沒有把人民放在心中我們每一位立委的選票都是從人民的手上得來的我們每一個人都是帶著人民的寄託跟期待和使命來到了立法院我們不該做傷害人民的事情即便今天政黨立場不同人民的生命都不該成為政治鬥爭的犧牲品所以我要建請我們的總召委"},{"start":504.64,"end":514.218,"text":"在今天我們不要進入逐條審查讓我們好好的請聽民意來回應我們人民來好好的為我們人民的生命做個把關謝謝"}]}}}}