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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 379.936, \"end\": 380.497, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 380.497, \"end\": 380.597, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 380.597, \"end\": 381.077, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 381.077, \"end\": 381.517, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 381.517, \"end\": 381.677, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 381.677, \"end\": 381.917, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 381.917, \"end\": 382.458, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 382.458, \"end\": 382.618, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 382.618, \"end\": 382.698, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 382.698, \"end\": 382.798, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 382.798, \"end\": 383.418, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, 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\"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:02,376\n有請部長有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:08,655 --> 00:00:31,467\n是陳委員好部長好其實關於這個DIU我們這個論壇很早我們在2016年2017年那時候我們有邀請陳委員陳永剛將軍一起來來參與關於這個創新生態圈的討論那專業圈已經過了七八年了那很高興今天可以看到說我們在國會可以共同來去談這個議題那我們看到國防\n\n3\n00:00:37,421 --> 00:00:55,157\n國防部提供的報告說是善用民間新創技術及能量那採用對外徵集的方式來鼓勵國內的這個新創企業投入國防領域那這邊有提到說創新小組將以國軍建案程序進行籌貨所以我們知道說傳統的採購過程是非常的冗長的\n\n4\n00:00:57,119 --> 00:01:18,440\n美國的DIU之所以能夠有現在的成效那是為什麼那是因為它有OTA的機制在那OTA讓美國國防部能夠去避免掉傳統的這個繁瑣的聯邦籌貨的規範在所以說他們可以跟企業的彈性的簽訂商業合約那這樣還可以大幅度的提升它的無貨的效率\n\n5\n00:01:19,241 --> 00:01:48,481\n那其實OTA的機制我們來看從2016年開始剛好是跟這個DIU正式的來去成立在美國成立的時候才開始因為國防授權法去允許它擴大使用OTA的方式所以美國國防部它提供用OTA簽約的方式它的金額是呈現爆炸式的成長那我們這邊有看到從2016年它是0.76億美金它到2028年是到20億美金那這還不是最新的這個data出來\n\n6\n00:01:49,221 --> 00:02:05,323\n我們知道說這種類似OTA的這種機制國防部是不是要考慮一下來去採購來去思考一下建制更靈活的採購機制我們講的是更靈活的採購機制剛才我們提到幾位委員有提到說這個不夠可能有些不夠好\n\n7\n00:02:05,743 --> 00:02:26,417\n但是問題是我們要更多元多種類量也很重要這樣包含二無戰爭其實二無戰爭我們用的不是最好不見得是最強是什麼定義最好是什麼定義我可能是在每一個不同的戰場環境下他必須要最適應我想這還是狀況在在這邊那我們希望今天我們討論這一個DIU我們要討論他從源頭開始的機制\n\n8\n00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:36,624\n我想請教一下,類似美國的OTA的這種加速創新制度的這種採購方式的引進目前的狀況是什麼樣?\n\n9\n00:02:38,606 --> 00:03:02,664\n跟委員報告,我想你要了解國防部的困難那我想如果建案的程序如果不做的話那麼沒有符合這個立法院監督的這個要求的話這個部分很容易會引起質疑那我們現在做的話如果能夠做就是我們盡量的採急迫性建案的方式但是還是要取得立法院的同意這樣子謝謝\n\n10\n00:03:04,145 --> 00:03:30,338\n那我想就是盡量把美國的資訊我來跟大家分享那第二個部分DIU為什麼能夠這種創新的這種小組能夠存活下來還有包含武器獲得的流程的一個改善那我想大家應該知道說像是緊急能力的獲取軟體籌貨中階系統的籌貨等等它是讓新聞化能夠制度化那我當然知道一開始很難一定會有很多不同的質疑聲但是不代表說\n\n11\n00:03:31,198 --> 00:03:38,843\n我們在創新的這個過程中不能夠嘗試嗎?這為什麼要找文能部長?文能部長就是說希望在過去可能\n\n12\n00:03:39,898 --> 00:04:03,666\n在舊有的體制或者是他們的訓練過程認為說我們要執行要把這種傳統文化或者是這種制度存留下來但是無能部長能夠做的是不是思考說除了這個文化之外有沒有其他看看我們吧其他的國家我們的友邦如果美國有類似的做法的時候是不是可以參考如果不符合國情當然可以不用這個部分部長可不可以簡單回應一下\n\n13\n00:04:04,614 --> 00:04:30,965\n我們有提到一個公開徵集解決方案的一個概念那如果說認為可以作為引進的一個基礎的話我們會在政府採購網這邊徵求這些相關的科技解決方案那如果有必要的話那我們現在有工業發展基金有委託的案子那也許我們用\n\n14\n00:04:31,665 --> 00:04:57,704\n公園發展基金來提供這些委託案那但是我想我們要的不是一個拿出來只是一篇報告我們要的就是立即能夠加以運用的一個一些案子所以我想那但是我們最後中科院如果最後做了系統整合之後那麼或者是構改以後或性能提升之後或者是相關已經可以進入了這個量產的這個\n\n15\n00:05:00,406 --> 00:05:00,466\n陳冠廷\n\n16\n00:05:25,407 --> 00:05:34,055\n我認為不見得說什麼事情都一定是要學習其他國家那不同的部分還是可以來去考量一下\n\n17\n00:05:34,861 --> 00:06:01,324\n委員剛剛講的OTA這個我非常中會議員這邊非常認同那我也跟委員報告未來我們所有的新制的裝備在有了DIU之後其實它在第一架比如說無人機好了它量產的第一架和最後一架它中間一定是不斷的update不會是從頭到尾就是一樣這就是OTA大概的概念我們會不斷的引進新技術不斷的在整個量產的過程中間去讓它性能不斷的提升\n\n18\n00:06:02,428 --> 00:06:23,998\n除了無人機,我們這些高科技的軍用商規等等,其實我們要思考就是說它DIU的過程中,它在研擬的東西不是所謂只有高科技的應用,有些高效率的應用,就是說它可能是一個很簡單的一個組件,一個零件,它可以改變它整個生態的體系,\n\n19\n00:06:25,419 --> 00:06:54,098\n那不見得是一定就是所謂的高科技人才他可能是在其他領域生物界、工程界或者是在軟體工程等等這都有可能我說我們希望當我們在討論這一個DIU的時候最好是不要把他指限縮在於無人機AI因為我看到今天許多委員都不斷在強調這一點那其實DIU它所應用的所採購的技術不見得是武器還有技術甚至是還有流程管理\n\n20\n00:06:55,158 --> 00:06:58,919\n最近有看到媒體有在講說國防部將成立台版的DARPA這樣的說法是不是在這邊澄清一下台灣的這個DIU跟DARPA有什麼不同\n\n21\n00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:44,133\n大PAR是那種未來先進科技可能要花10年或20年的那一種叫大PAR他那個要美國這樣的國家才有辦法有那個能力跟資源去投入一個這麼長期然後這麼多的預算那我們沒有這樣子的一個資源所以我們應該是美國的這個DIU\n\n22\n00:07:48,095 --> 00:08:00,620\n所以美國不但有這個搭把DIU還有DIO這些相關很多,那我們覺得是他們的其中一個DIU的這個項目,也就是成熟的解決方案這樣子。\n\n23\n00:08:01,525 --> 00:08:22,808\n對國防部提到說是負責創新概念評估引進民間成熟科技啦所以這個剛才部長的這一個答詢我覺得很好我想讓民間也知道說我們在做的不是重新發明輪子他們有這個高等的這個技術的研究我們也要有不是這樣子的我們是希望能夠有更成熟的科技來進入我們的這個市場\n\n24\n00:08:23,809 --> 00:08:48,898\n但是在國防部的報告裡面有提到說市場大家都知道我們台灣的市場其實特別是軍工的市場相對的小除了這一個我們自己的採購之外其實還是有一定的局限在不然現在這些新創的這些東西如果可以賣出去的話全部都賣到全世界的市場那我想說跟美方的積極交流的部分你們的計畫是什麼\n\n25\n00:08:50,263 --> 00:09:06,824\n我先講一下現在美國要求的資安認證就是CMMC嘛這一個體制之下那是在2019年有提出來那這一個網路安全成熟度的模型這個東西2019年提出來那過去是其實是分類的很\n\n26\n00:09:08,025 --> 00:09:30,591\n調整是從五個級別那現在是2.0百是三個級別那就是基礎防護、進階防護跟專家級防護我們要談的是當我們要進入美方的市場當我們要進入人家的國防產業鏈要接軌就是說我們不必要重新說我們要加入要加入但是如果我們最基本的資安的要求沒有達到的話\n\n27\n00:09:32,333 --> 00:09:38,546\n那你怎麼加入那所以我想知道說怎麼樣跟美國的這個合作這就很重要你的規格你的規制\n\n28\n00:09:41,404 --> 00:10:03,346\n臺灣不能夠我們自己做一版然後跟美國如果不通用的話那重新每次的這一種你申請的過程或者說你要進入他們的產業鏈的這種驗證的過程那就會非常長不知道部長在這方面我想請教一下現在FMC的2.0的架構出來之後我們現在已經積極的在跟美方做溝通\n\n29\n00:10:05,007 --> 00:10:29,414\n細節部分可能沒有辦法透露但是總之就是說有一個關鍵就是說到底在台灣這裡本地有沒有第三方的認證的一個機制那如果美國可以在這裡設立一個第三方認證的機制的話對於整個CMMC通過的認證所需要的費用會相當大幅度的減低這一點是很重要的我們現在正在跟他密切的在做研討當中\n\n30\n00:10:30,134 --> 00:10:51,229\n今年是2024年,2026年就全面實施,所以說,我們是希望能夠先把這個強制的要求先釐清,這個沒有什麼機密性,就是你如果要進入他們的產業鏈,你就必須要打到這些東西,那這個可能未來要跟我們自己的……詳細的這個溝通狀況可能還是讓我有一點……\n\n31\n00:10:52,149 --> 00:11:14,234\n對,我們跟他再積極的再討論評估。謝謝部長,我還是在強調,就是包含如果我們直接進入他們的DIU的這種網站,進去的這種視覺化或者是可親近性就很高了,因為他是要跟民間商業,他要有效率的,能夠,那剛剛這邊也寫了嘛,要說你的語言。\n\n32\n00:11:15,314 --> 00:11:34,122\n說不是國防部的語言,國防部的語言我說聽不太懂,因為我們是來自民間的。說我們的語言,說民間的語言,那這樣子我們的產業才能夠進去美國的市場。那所以包含未來,你說你這個系統上面,網路上面的這種情報上面的分享,或者是說你要讓更多民間的產業進來的話,說他們的語言。\n\n33\n00:11:37,603 --> 00:11:39,984\n接下來請林益君委員林益君委員不在請徐巧欣委員上台諮詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t2376\t有請部長有請部長\n8655\t31467\t是 陳委員好部長好其實關於這個DIU我們這個論壇很早我們在2016年2017年那時候我們有邀請陳委員陳永剛將軍一起來來參與關於這個創新生態圈的討論那專業圈已經過了七八年了那很高興今天可以看到說我們在國會可以共同來去談這個議題那我們看到國防\n37421\t55157\t國防部提供的報告說是善用民間新創技術及能量那採用對外徵集的方式來鼓勵國內的這個新創企業投入國防領域那這邊有提到說創新小組將以國軍建案程序進行籌貨所以我們知道說傳統的採購過程是非常的冗長的\n57119\t78440\t美國的DIU之所以能夠有現在的成效那是為什麼那是因為它有OTA的機制在那OTA讓美國國防部能夠去避免掉傳統的這個繁瑣的聯邦籌貨的規範在所以說他們可以跟企業的彈性的簽訂商業合約那這樣還可以大幅度的提升它的無貨的效率\n79241\t108481\t那其實OTA的機制我們來看從2016年開始剛好是跟這個DIU正式的來去成立在美國成立的時候才開始因為國防授權法去允許它擴大使用OTA的方式所以美國國防部它提供用OTA簽約的方式它的金額是呈現爆炸式的成長那我們這邊有看到從2016年它是0.76億美金它到2028年是到20億美金那這還不是最新的這個data出來\n109221\t125323\t我們知道說這種類似OTA的這種機制國防部是不是要考慮一下來去採購來去思考一下建制更靈活的採購機制我們講的是更靈活的採購機制剛才我們提到幾位委員有提到說這個不夠可能有些不夠好\n125743\t146417\t但是問題是我們要更多元多種類量也很重要這樣包含二無戰爭其實二無戰爭我們用的不是最好不見得是最強是什麼定義最好是什麼定義我可能是在每一個不同的戰場環境下他必須要最適應我想這還是狀況在在這邊那我們希望今天我們討論這一個DIU我們要討論他從源頭開始的機制\n150160\t156624\t我想請教一下,類似美國的OTA的這種加速創新制度的這種採購方式的引進目前的狀況是什麼樣?\n158606\t182664\t跟委員報告,我想你要了解國防部的困難那我想如果建案的程序如果不做的話那麼沒有符合這個立法院監督的這個要求的話這個部分很容易會引起質疑那我們現在做的話如果能夠做就是我們盡量的採急迫性建案的方式但是還是要取得立法院的同意這樣子謝謝\n184145\t210338\t那我想就是盡量把美國的資訊我來跟大家分享那第二個部分DIU為什麼能夠這種創新的這種小組能夠存活下來還有包含武器獲得的流程的一個改善那我想大家應該知道說像是緊急能力的獲取軟體籌貨中階系統的籌貨等等它是讓新聞化能夠制度化那我當然知道一開始很難一定會有很多不同的質疑聲但是不代表說\n211198\t218843\t我們在創新的這個過程中不能夠嘗試嗎?這為什麼要找文能部長?文能部長就是說希望在過去可能\n219898\t243666\t在舊有的體制或者是他們的訓練過程認為說我們要執行要把這種傳統文化或者是這種制度存留下來但是無能部長能夠做的是不是思考說除了這個文化之外有沒有其他看看我們吧其他的國家我們的友邦如果美國有類似的做法的時候是不是可以參考如果不符合國情當然可以不用這個部分部長可不可以簡單回應一下\n244614\t270965\t我們有提到一個公開徵集解決方案的一個概念那如果說認為可以作為引進的一個基礎的話我們會在政府採購網這邊徵求這些相關的科技解決方案那如果有必要的話那我們現在有工業發展基金有委託的案子那也許我們用\n271665\t297704\t公園發展基金來提供這些委託案那但是我想我們要的不是一個拿出來只是一篇報告我們要的就是立即能夠加以運用的一個一些案子所以我想那但是我們最後中科院如果最後做了系統整合之後那麼或者是構改以後或性能提升之後或者是相關已經可以進入了這個量產的這個\n300406\t300466\t陳冠廷\n325407\t334055\t我認為不見得說什麼事情都一定是要學習其他國家那不同的部分還是可以來去考量一下\n334861\t361324\t委員剛剛講的OTA這個我非常中會議員這邊非常認同那我也跟委員報告未來我們所有的新制的裝備在有了DIU之後其實它在第一架比如說無人機好了它量產的第一架和最後一架它中間一定是不斷的update不會是從頭到尾就是一樣這就是OTA大概的概念我們會不斷的引進新技術不斷的在整個量產的過程中間去讓它性能不斷的提升\n362428\t383998\t除了無人機,我們這些高科技的軍用商規等等,其實我們要思考就是說它DIU的過程中,它在研擬的東西不是所謂只有高科技的應用,有些高效率的應用,就是說它可能是一個很簡單的一個組件,一個零件,它可以改變它整個生態的體系,\n385419\t414098\t那不見得是一定就是所謂的高科技人才他可能是在其他領域生物界、工程界或者是在軟體工程等等這都有可能我說我們希望當我們在討論這一個DIU的時候最好是不要把他指限縮在於無人機AI因為我看到今天許多委員都不斷在強調這一點那其實DIU它所應用的所採購的技術不見得是武器還有技術甚至是還有流程管理\n415158\t418919\t最近有看到媒體有在講說國防部將成立台版的DARPA這樣的說法是不是在這邊澄清一下台灣的這個DIU跟DARPA有什麼不同\n444319\t464133\t大PAR是那種未來先進科技可能要花10年或20年的那一種叫大PAR他那個要美國這樣的國家才有辦法有那個能力跟資源去投入一個這麼長期然後這麼多的預算那我們沒有這樣子的一個資源所以我們應該是美國的這個DIU\n468095\t480620\t所以美國不但有這個搭把DIU還有DIO這些相關很多,那我們覺得是他們的其中一個DIU的這個項目,也就是成熟的解決方案這樣子。\n481525\t502808\t對 國防部提到說是負責創新概念評估引進民間成熟科技啦所以這個 剛才部長的這一個答詢我覺得很好我想讓民間也知道說我們在做的不是重新發明輪子他們有這個高等的這個技術的研究我們也要有不是這樣子的我們是希望能夠有更成熟的科技來進入我們的這個市場\n503809\t528898\t但是在國防部的報告裡面有提到說市場大家都知道我們台灣的市場其實特別是軍工的市場相對的小除了這一個我們自己的採購之外其實還是有一定的局限在不然現在這些新創的這些東西如果可以賣出去的話全部都賣到全世界的市場那我想說跟美方的積極交流的部分你們的計畫是什麼\n530263\t546824\t我先講一下現在美國要求的資安認證就是CMMC嘛這一個體制之下那是在2019年有提出來那這一個網路安全成熟度的模型這個東西2019年提出來那過去是其實是分類的很\n548025\t570591\t調整是從五個級別那現在是2.0百是三個級別那就是基礎防護、進階防護跟專家級防護我們要談的是當我們要進入美方的市場當我們要進入人家的國防產業鏈要接軌就是說我們不必要重新說我們要加入要加入但是如果我們最基本的資安的要求沒有達到的話\n572333\t578546\t那你怎麼加入那所以我想知道說怎麼樣跟美國的這個合作這就很重要你的規格你的規制\n581404\t603346\t臺灣不能夠我們自己做一版然後跟美國如果不通用的話那重新每次的這一種你申請的過程或者說你要進入他們的產業鏈的這種驗證的過程那就會非常長不知道部長在這方面我想請教一下現在FMC的2.0的架構出來之後我們現在已經積極的在跟美方做溝通\n605007\t629414\t細節部分可能沒有辦法透露但是總之就是說有一個關鍵就是說到底在台灣這裡本地有沒有第三方的認證的一個機制那如果美國可以在這裡設立一個第三方認證的機制的話對於整個CMMC通過的認證所需要的費用會相當大幅度的減低這一點是很重要的我們現在正在跟他密切的在做研討當中\n630134\t651229\t今年是2024年,2026年就全面實施,所以說,我們是希望能夠先把這個強制的要求先釐清,這個沒有什麼機密性,就是你如果要進入他們的產業鏈,你就必須要打到這些東西,那這個可能未來要跟我們自己的……詳細的這個溝通狀況可能還是讓我有一點……\n652149\t674234\t對,我們跟他再積極的再討論評估。謝謝部長,我還是在強調,就是包含如果我們直接進入他們的DIU的這種網站,進去的這種視覺化或者是可親近性就很高了,因為他是要跟民間商業,他要有效率的,能夠,那剛剛這邊也寫了嘛,要說你的語言。\n675314\t694122\t說不是國防部的語言,國防部的語言我說聽不太懂,因為我們是來自民間的。說我們的語言,說民間的語言,那這樣子我們的產業才能夠進去美國的市場。那所以包含未來,你說你這個系統上面,網路上面的這種情報上面的分享,或者是說你要讓更多民間的產業進來的話,說他們的語言。\n697603\t699984\t接下來請林益君委員 林益君委員不在 請徐巧欣委員上台諮詢\n","txt":"有請部長有請部長\n是 陳委員好部長好其實關於這個DIU我們這個論壇很早我們在2016年2017年那時候我們有邀請陳委員陳永剛將軍一起來來參與關於這個創新生態圈的討論那專業圈已經過了七八年了那很高興今天可以看到說我們在國會可以共同來去談這個議題那我們看到國防\n國防部提供的報告說是善用民間新創技術及能量那採用對外徵集的方式來鼓勵國內的這個新創企業投入國防領域那這邊有提到說創新小組將以國軍建案程序進行籌貨所以我們知道說傳統的採購過程是非常的冗長的\n美國的DIU之所以能夠有現在的成效那是為什麼那是因為它有OTA的機制在那OTA讓美國國防部能夠去避免掉傳統的這個繁瑣的聯邦籌貨的規範在所以說他們可以跟企業的彈性的簽訂商業合約那這樣還可以大幅度的提升它的無貨的效率\n那其實OTA的機制我們來看從2016年開始剛好是跟這個DIU正式的來去成立在美國成立的時候才開始因為國防授權法去允許它擴大使用OTA的方式所以美國國防部它提供用OTA簽約的方式它的金額是呈現爆炸式的成長那我們這邊有看到從2016年它是0.76億美金它到2028年是到20億美金那這還不是最新的這個data出來\n我們知道說這種類似OTA的這種機制國防部是不是要考慮一下來去採購來去思考一下建制更靈活的採購機制我們講的是更靈活的採購機制剛才我們提到幾位委員有提到說這個不夠可能有些不夠好\n但是問題是我們要更多元多種類量也很重要這樣包含二無戰爭其實二無戰爭我們用的不是最好不見得是最強是什麼定義最好是什麼定義我可能是在每一個不同的戰場環境下他必須要最適應我想這還是狀況在在這邊那我們希望今天我們討論這一個DIU我們要討論他從源頭開始的機制\n我想請教一下,類似美國的OTA的這種加速創新制度的這種採購方式的引進目前的狀況是什麼樣?\n跟委員報告,我想你要了解國防部的困難那我想如果建案的程序如果不做的話那麼沒有符合這個立法院監督的這個要求的話這個部分很容易會引起質疑那我們現在做的話如果能夠做就是我們盡量的採急迫性建案的方式但是還是要取得立法院的同意這樣子謝謝\n那我想就是盡量把美國的資訊我來跟大家分享那第二個部分DIU為什麼能夠這種創新的這種小組能夠存活下來還有包含武器獲得的流程的一個改善那我想大家應該知道說像是緊急能力的獲取軟體籌貨中階系統的籌貨等等它是讓新聞化能夠制度化那我當然知道一開始很難一定會有很多不同的質疑聲但是不代表說\n我們在創新的這個過程中不能夠嘗試嗎?這為什麼要找文能部長?文能部長就是說希望在過去可能\n在舊有的體制或者是他們的訓練過程認為說我們要執行要把這種傳統文化或者是這種制度存留下來但是無能部長能夠做的是不是思考說除了這個文化之外有沒有其他看看我們吧其他的國家我們的友邦如果美國有類似的做法的時候是不是可以參考如果不符合國情當然可以不用這個部分部長可不可以簡單回應一下\n我們有提到一個公開徵集解決方案的一個概念那如果說認為可以作為引進的一個基礎的話我們會在政府採購網這邊徵求這些相關的科技解決方案那如果有必要的話那我們現在有工業發展基金有委託的案子那也許我們用\n公園發展基金來提供這些委託案那但是我想我們要的不是一個拿出來只是一篇報告我們要的就是立即能夠加以運用的一個一些案子所以我想那但是我們最後中科院如果最後做了系統整合之後那麼或者是構改以後或性能提升之後或者是相關已經可以進入了這個量產的這個\n陳冠廷\n我認為不見得說什麼事情都一定是要學習其他國家那不同的部分還是可以來去考量一下\n委員剛剛講的OTA這個我非常中會議員這邊非常認同那我也跟委員報告未來我們所有的新制的裝備在有了DIU之後其實它在第一架比如說無人機好了它量產的第一架和最後一架它中間一定是不斷的update不會是從頭到尾就是一樣這就是OTA大概的概念我們會不斷的引進新技術不斷的在整個量產的過程中間去讓它性能不斷的提升\n除了無人機,我們這些高科技的軍用商規等等,其實我們要思考就是說它DIU的過程中,它在研擬的東西不是所謂只有高科技的應用,有些高效率的應用,就是說它可能是一個很簡單的一個組件,一個零件,它可以改變它整個生態的體系,\n那不見得是一定就是所謂的高科技人才他可能是在其他領域生物界、工程界或者是在軟體工程等等這都有可能我說我們希望當我們在討論這一個DIU的時候最好是不要把他指限縮在於無人機AI因為我看到今天許多委員都不斷在強調這一點那其實DIU它所應用的所採購的技術不見得是武器還有技術甚至是還有流程管理\n最近有看到媒體有在講說國防部將成立台版的DARPA這樣的說法是不是在這邊澄清一下台灣的這個DIU跟DARPA有什麼不同\n大PAR是那種未來先進科技可能要花10年或20年的那一種叫大PAR他那個要美國這樣的國家才有辦法有那個能力跟資源去投入一個這麼長期然後這麼多的預算那我們沒有這樣子的一個資源所以我們應該是美國的這個DIU\n所以美國不但有這個搭把DIU還有DIO這些相關很多,那我們覺得是他們的其中一個DIU的這個項目,也就是成熟的解決方案這樣子。\n對 國防部提到說是負責創新概念評估引進民間成熟科技啦所以這個 剛才部長的這一個答詢我覺得很好我想讓民間也知道說我們在做的不是重新發明輪子他們有這個高等的這個技術的研究我們也要有不是這樣子的我們是希望能夠有更成熟的科技來進入我們的這個市場\n但是在國防部的報告裡面有提到說市場大家都知道我們台灣的市場其實特別是軍工的市場相對的小除了這一個我們自己的採購之外其實還是有一定的局限在不然現在這些新創的這些東西如果可以賣出去的話全部都賣到全世界的市場那我想說跟美方的積極交流的部分你們的計畫是什麼\n我先講一下現在美國要求的資安認證就是CMMC嘛這一個體制之下那是在2019年有提出來那這一個網路安全成熟度的模型這個東西2019年提出來那過去是其實是分類的很\n調整是從五個級別那現在是2.0百是三個級別那就是基礎防護、進階防護跟專家級防護我們要談的是當我們要進入美方的市場當我們要進入人家的國防產業鏈要接軌就是說我們不必要重新說我們要加入要加入但是如果我們最基本的資安的要求沒有達到的話\n那你怎麼加入那所以我想知道說怎麼樣跟美國的這個合作這就很重要你的規格你的規制\n臺灣不能夠我們自己做一版然後跟美國如果不通用的話那重新每次的這一種你申請的過程或者說你要進入他們的產業鏈的這種驗證的過程那就會非常長不知道部長在這方面我想請教一下現在FMC的2.0的架構出來之後我們現在已經積極的在跟美方做溝通\n細節部分可能沒有辦法透露但是總之就是說有一個關鍵就是說到底在台灣這裡本地有沒有第三方的認證的一個機制那如果美國可以在這裡設立一個第三方認證的機制的話對於整個CMMC通過的認證所需要的費用會相當大幅度的減低這一點是很重要的我們現在正在跟他密切的在做研討當中\n今年是2024年,2026年就全面實施,所以說,我們是希望能夠先把這個強制的要求先釐清,這個沒有什麼機密性,就是你如果要進入他們的產業鏈,你就必須要打到這些東西,那這個可能未來要跟我們自己的……詳細的這個溝通狀況可能還是讓我有一點……\n對,我們跟他再積極的再討論評估。謝謝部長,我還是在強調,就是包含如果我們直接進入他們的DIU的這種網站,進去的這種視覺化或者是可親近性就很高了,因為他是要跟民間商業,他要有效率的,能夠,那剛剛這邊也寫了嘛,要說你的語言。\n說不是國防部的語言,國防部的語言我說聽不太懂,因為我們是來自民間的。說我們的語言,說民間的語言,那這樣子我們的產業才能夠進去美國的市場。那所以包含未來,你說你這個系統上面,網路上面的這種情報上面的分享,或者是說你要讓更多民間的產業進來的話,說他們的語言。\n接下來請林益君委員 林益君委員不在 請徐巧欣委員上台諮詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:02.376\n有請部長有請部長\n\n00:08.655 --> 00:31.467\n是陳委員好部長好其實關於這個DIU我們這個論壇很早我們在2016年2017年那時候我們有邀請陳委員陳永剛將軍一起來來參與關於這個創新生態圈的討論那專業圈已經過了七八年了那很高興今天可以看到說我們在國會可以共同來去談這個議題那我們看到國防\n\n00:37.421 --> 00:55.157\n國防部提供的報告說是善用民間新創技術及能量那採用對外徵集的方式來鼓勵國內的這個新創企業投入國防領域那這邊有提到說創新小組將以國軍建案程序進行籌貨所以我們知道說傳統的採購過程是非常的冗長的\n\n00:57.119 --> 01:18.440\n美國的DIU之所以能夠有現在的成效那是為什麼那是因為它有OTA的機制在那OTA讓美國國防部能夠去避免掉傳統的這個繁瑣的聯邦籌貨的規範在所以說他們可以跟企業的彈性的簽訂商業合約那這樣還可以大幅度的提升它的無貨的效率\n\n01:19.241 --> 01:48.481\n那其實OTA的機制我們來看從2016年開始剛好是跟這個DIU正式的來去成立在美國成立的時候才開始因為國防授權法去允許它擴大使用OTA的方式所以美國國防部它提供用OTA簽約的方式它的金額是呈現爆炸式的成長那我們這邊有看到從2016年它是0.76億美金它到2028年是到20億美金那這還不是最新的這個data出來\n\n01:49.221 --> 02:05.323\n我們知道說這種類似OTA的這種機制國防部是不是要考慮一下來去採購來去思考一下建制更靈活的採購機制我們講的是更靈活的採購機制剛才我們提到幾位委員有提到說這個不夠可能有些不夠好\n\n02:05.743 --> 02:26.417\n但是問題是我們要更多元多種類量也很重要這樣包含二無戰爭其實二無戰爭我們用的不是最好不見得是最強是什麼定義最好是什麼定義我可能是在每一個不同的戰場環境下他必須要最適應我想這還是狀況在在這邊那我們希望今天我們討論這一個DIU我們要討論他從源頭開始的機制\n\n02:30.160 --> 02:36.624\n我想請教一下,類似美國的OTA的這種加速創新制度的這種採購方式的引進目前的狀況是什麼樣?\n\n02:38.606 --> 03:02.664\n跟委員報告,我想你要了解國防部的困難那我想如果建案的程序如果不做的話那麼沒有符合這個立法院監督的這個要求的話這個部分很容易會引起質疑那我們現在做的話如果能夠做就是我們盡量的採急迫性建案的方式但是還是要取得立法院的同意這樣子謝謝\n\n03:04.145 --> 03:30.338\n那我想就是盡量把美國的資訊我來跟大家分享那第二個部分DIU為什麼能夠這種創新的這種小組能夠存活下來還有包含武器獲得的流程的一個改善那我想大家應該知道說像是緊急能力的獲取軟體籌貨中階系統的籌貨等等它是讓新聞化能夠制度化那我當然知道一開始很難一定會有很多不同的質疑聲但是不代表說\n\n03:31.198 --> 03:38.843\n我們在創新的這個過程中不能夠嘗試嗎?這為什麼要找文能部長?文能部長就是說希望在過去可能\n\n03:39.898 --> 04:03.666\n在舊有的體制或者是他們的訓練過程認為說我們要執行要把這種傳統文化或者是這種制度存留下來但是無能部長能夠做的是不是思考說除了這個文化之外有沒有其他看看我們吧其他的國家我們的友邦如果美國有類似的做法的時候是不是可以參考如果不符合國情當然可以不用這個部分部長可不可以簡單回應一下\n\n04:04.614 --> 04:30.965\n我們有提到一個公開徵集解決方案的一個概念那如果說認為可以作為引進的一個基礎的話我們會在政府採購網這邊徵求這些相關的科技解決方案那如果有必要的話那我們現在有工業發展基金有委託的案子那也許我們用\n\n04:31.665 --> 04:57.704\n公園發展基金來提供這些委託案那但是我想我們要的不是一個拿出來只是一篇報告我們要的就是立即能夠加以運用的一個一些案子所以我想那但是我們最後中科院如果最後做了系統整合之後那麼或者是構改以後或性能提升之後或者是相關已經可以進入了這個量產的這個\n\n05:00.406 --> 05:00.466\n陳冠廷\n\n05:25.407 --> 05:34.055\n我認為不見得說什麼事情都一定是要學習其他國家那不同的部分還是可以來去考量一下\n\n05:34.861 --> 06:01.324\n委員剛剛講的OTA這個我非常中會議員這邊非常認同那我也跟委員報告未來我們所有的新制的裝備在有了DIU之後其實它在第一架比如說無人機好了它量產的第一架和最後一架它中間一定是不斷的update不會是從頭到尾就是一樣這就是OTA大概的概念我們會不斷的引進新技術不斷的在整個量產的過程中間去讓它性能不斷的提升\n\n06:02.428 --> 06:23.998\n除了無人機,我們這些高科技的軍用商規等等,其實我們要思考就是說它DIU的過程中,它在研擬的東西不是所謂只有高科技的應用,有些高效率的應用,就是說它可能是一個很簡單的一個組件,一個零件,它可以改變它整個生態的體系,\n\n06:25.419 --> 06:54.098\n那不見得是一定就是所謂的高科技人才他可能是在其他領域生物界、工程界或者是在軟體工程等等這都有可能我說我們希望當我們在討論這一個DIU的時候最好是不要把他指限縮在於無人機AI因為我看到今天許多委員都不斷在強調這一點那其實DIU它所應用的所採購的技術不見得是武器還有技術甚至是還有流程管理\n\n06:55.158 --> 06:58.919\n最近有看到媒體有在講說國防部將成立台版的DARPA這樣的說法是不是在這邊澄清一下台灣的這個DIU跟DARPA有什麼不同\n\n07:24.319 --> 07:44.133\n大PAR是那種未來先進科技可能要花10年或20年的那一種叫大PAR他那個要美國這樣的國家才有辦法有那個能力跟資源去投入一個這麼長期然後這麼多的預算那我們沒有這樣子的一個資源所以我們應該是美國的這個DIU\n\n07:48.095 --> 08:00.620\n所以美國不但有這個搭把DIU還有DIO這些相關很多,那我們覺得是他們的其中一個DIU的這個項目,也就是成熟的解決方案這樣子。\n\n08:01.525 --> 08:22.808\n對國防部提到說是負責創新概念評估引進民間成熟科技啦所以這個剛才部長的這一個答詢我覺得很好我想讓民間也知道說我們在做的不是重新發明輪子他們有這個高等的這個技術的研究我們也要有不是這樣子的我們是希望能夠有更成熟的科技來進入我們的這個市場\n\n08:23.809 --> 08:48.898\n但是在國防部的報告裡面有提到說市場大家都知道我們台灣的市場其實特別是軍工的市場相對的小除了這一個我們自己的採購之外其實還是有一定的局限在不然現在這些新創的這些東西如果可以賣出去的話全部都賣到全世界的市場那我想說跟美方的積極交流的部分你們的計畫是什麼\n\n08:50.263 --> 09:06.824\n我先講一下現在美國要求的資安認證就是CMMC嘛這一個體制之下那是在2019年有提出來那這一個網路安全成熟度的模型這個東西2019年提出來那過去是其實是分類的很\n\n09:08.025 --> 09:30.591\n調整是從五個級別那現在是2.0百是三個級別那就是基礎防護、進階防護跟專家級防護我們要談的是當我們要進入美方的市場當我們要進入人家的國防產業鏈要接軌就是說我們不必要重新說我們要加入要加入但是如果我們最基本的資安的要求沒有達到的話\n\n09:32.333 --> 09:38.546\n那你怎麼加入那所以我想知道說怎麼樣跟美國的這個合作這就很重要你的規格你的規制\n\n09:41.404 --> 10:03.346\n臺灣不能夠我們自己做一版然後跟美國如果不通用的話那重新每次的這一種你申請的過程或者說你要進入他們的產業鏈的這種驗證的過程那就會非常長不知道部長在這方面我想請教一下現在FMC的2.0的架構出來之後我們現在已經積極的在跟美方做溝通\n\n10:05.007 --> 10:29.414\n細節部分可能沒有辦法透露但是總之就是說有一個關鍵就是說到底在台灣這裡本地有沒有第三方的認證的一個機制那如果美國可以在這裡設立一個第三方認證的機制的話對於整個CMMC通過的認證所需要的費用會相當大幅度的減低這一點是很重要的我們現在正在跟他密切的在做研討當中\n\n10:30.134 --> 10:51.229\n今年是2024年,2026年就全面實施,所以說,我們是希望能夠先把這個強制的要求先釐清,這個沒有什麼機密性,就是你如果要進入他們的產業鏈,你就必須要打到這些東西,那這個可能未來要跟我們自己的……詳細的這個溝通狀況可能還是讓我有一點……\n\n10:52.149 --> 11:14.234\n對,我們跟他再積極的再討論評估。謝謝部長,我還是在強調,就是包含如果我們直接進入他們的DIU的這種網站,進去的這種視覺化或者是可親近性就很高了,因為他是要跟民間商業,他要有效率的,能夠,那剛剛這邊也寫了嘛,要說你的語言。\n\n11:15.314 --> 11:34.122\n說不是國防部的語言,國防部的語言我說聽不太懂,因為我們是來自民間的。說我們的語言,說民間的語言,那這樣子我們的產業才能夠進去美國的市場。那所以包含未來,你說你這個系統上面,網路上面的這種情報上面的分享,或者是說你要讓更多民間的產業進來的話,說他們的語言。\n\n11:37.603 --> 11:39.984\n接下來請林益君委員林益君委員不在請徐巧欣委員上台諮詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":2.376,"text":"有請部長有請部長"},{"start":8.655,"end":31.467,"text":"是 陳委員好部長好其實關於這個DIU我們這個論壇很早我們在2016年2017年那時候我們有邀請陳委員陳永剛將軍一起來來參與關於這個創新生態圈的討論那專業圈已經過了七八年了那很高興今天可以看到說我們在國會可以共同來去談這個議題那我們看到國防"},{"start":37.421,"end":55.157,"text":"國防部提供的報告說是善用民間新創技術及能量那採用對外徵集的方式來鼓勵國內的這個新創企業投入國防領域那這邊有提到說創新小組將以國軍建案程序進行籌貨所以我們知道說傳統的採購過程是非常的冗長的"},{"start":57.119,"end":78.44,"text":"美國的DIU之所以能夠有現在的成效那是為什麼那是因為它有OTA的機制在那OTA讓美國國防部能夠去避免掉傳統的這個繁瑣的聯邦籌貨的規範在所以說他們可以跟企業的彈性的簽訂商業合約那這樣還可以大幅度的提升它的無貨的效率"},{"start":79.241,"end":108.481,"text":"那其實OTA的機制我們來看從2016年開始剛好是跟這個DIU正式的來去成立在美國成立的時候才開始因為國防授權法去允許它擴大使用OTA的方式所以美國國防部它提供用OTA簽約的方式它的金額是呈現爆炸式的成長那我們這邊有看到從2016年它是0.76億美金它到2028年是到20億美金那這還不是最新的這個data出來"},{"start":109.221,"end":125.323,"text":"我們知道說這種類似OTA的這種機制國防部是不是要考慮一下來去採購來去思考一下建制更靈活的採購機制我們講的是更靈活的採購機制剛才我們提到幾位委員有提到說這個不夠可能有些不夠好"},{"start":125.743,"end":146.417,"text":"但是問題是我們要更多元多種類量也很重要這樣包含二無戰爭其實二無戰爭我們用的不是最好不見得是最強是什麼定義最好是什麼定義我可能是在每一個不同的戰場環境下他必須要最適應我想這還是狀況在在這邊那我們希望今天我們討論這一個DIU我們要討論他從源頭開始的機制"},{"start":150.16,"end":156.624,"text":"我想請教一下,類似美國的OTA的這種加速創新制度的這種採購方式的引進目前的狀況是什麼樣?"},{"start":158.606,"end":182.664,"text":"跟委員報告,我想你要了解國防部的困難那我想如果建案的程序如果不做的話那麼沒有符合這個立法院監督的這個要求的話這個部分很容易會引起質疑那我們現在做的話如果能夠做就是我們盡量的採急迫性建案的方式但是還是要取得立法院的同意這樣子謝謝"},{"start":184.145,"end":210.338,"text":"那我想就是盡量把美國的資訊我來跟大家分享那第二個部分DIU為什麼能夠這種創新的這種小組能夠存活下來還有包含武器獲得的流程的一個改善那我想大家應該知道說像是緊急能力的獲取軟體籌貨中階系統的籌貨等等它是讓新聞化能夠制度化那我當然知道一開始很難一定會有很多不同的質疑聲但是不代表說"},{"start":211.198,"end":218.843,"text":"我們在創新的這個過程中不能夠嘗試嗎?這為什麼要找文能部長?文能部長就是說希望在過去可能"},{"start":219.898,"end":243.666,"text":"在舊有的體制或者是他們的訓練過程認為說我們要執行要把這種傳統文化或者是這種制度存留下來但是無能部長能夠做的是不是思考說除了這個文化之外有沒有其他看看我們吧其他的國家我們的友邦如果美國有類似的做法的時候是不是可以參考如果不符合國情當然可以不用這個部分部長可不可以簡單回應一下"},{"start":244.614,"end":270.965,"text":"我們有提到一個公開徵集解決方案的一個概念那如果說認為可以作為引進的一個基礎的話我們會在政府採購網這邊徵求這些相關的科技解決方案那如果有必要的話那我們現在有工業發展基金有委託的案子那也許我們用"},{"start":271.665,"end":297.704,"text":"公園發展基金來提供這些委託案那但是我想我們要的不是一個拿出來只是一篇報告我們要的就是立即能夠加以運用的一個一些案子所以我想那但是我們最後中科院如果最後做了系統整合之後那麼或者是構改以後或性能提升之後或者是相關已經可以進入了這個量產的這個"},{"start":300.406,"end":300.466,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":325.407,"end":334.055,"text":"我認為不見得說什麼事情都一定是要學習其他國家那不同的部分還是可以來去考量一下"},{"start":334.861,"end":361.324,"text":"委員剛剛講的OTA這個我非常中會議員這邊非常認同那我也跟委員報告未來我們所有的新制的裝備在有了DIU之後其實它在第一架比如說無人機好了它量產的第一架和最後一架它中間一定是不斷的update不會是從頭到尾就是一樣這就是OTA大概的概念我們會不斷的引進新技術不斷的在整個量產的過程中間去讓它性能不斷的提升"},{"start":362.428,"end":383.998,"text":"除了無人機,我們這些高科技的軍用商規等等,其實我們要思考就是說它DIU的過程中,它在研擬的東西不是所謂只有高科技的應用,有些高效率的應用,就是說它可能是一個很簡單的一個組件,一個零件,它可以改變它整個生態的體系,"},{"start":385.419,"end":414.098,"text":"那不見得是一定就是所謂的高科技人才他可能是在其他領域生物界、工程界或者是在軟體工程等等這都有可能我說我們希望當我們在討論這一個DIU的時候最好是不要把他指限縮在於無人機AI因為我看到今天許多委員都不斷在強調這一點那其實DIU它所應用的所採購的技術不見得是武器還有技術甚至是還有流程管理"},{"start":415.158,"end":418.919,"text":"最近有看到媒體有在講說國防部將成立台版的DARPA這樣的說法是不是在這邊澄清一下台灣的這個DIU跟DARPA有什麼不同"},{"start":444.319,"end":464.133,"text":"大PAR是那種未來先進科技可能要花10年或20年的那一種叫大PAR他那個要美國這樣的國家才有辦法有那個能力跟資源去投入一個這麼長期然後這麼多的預算那我們沒有這樣子的一個資源所以我們應該是美國的這個DIU"},{"start":468.095,"end":480.62,"text":"所以美國不但有這個搭把DIU還有DIO這些相關很多,那我們覺得是他們的其中一個DIU的這個項目,也就是成熟的解決方案這樣子。"},{"start":481.525,"end":502.808,"text":"對 國防部提到說是負責創新概念評估引進民間成熟科技啦所以這個 剛才部長的這一個答詢我覺得很好我想讓民間也知道說我們在做的不是重新發明輪子他們有這個高等的這個技術的研究我們也要有不是這樣子的我們是希望能夠有更成熟的科技來進入我們的這個市場"},{"start":503.809,"end":528.898,"text":"但是在國防部的報告裡面有提到說市場大家都知道我們台灣的市場其實特別是軍工的市場相對的小除了這一個我們自己的採購之外其實還是有一定的局限在不然現在這些新創的這些東西如果可以賣出去的話全部都賣到全世界的市場那我想說跟美方的積極交流的部分你們的計畫是什麼"},{"start":530.263,"end":546.824,"text":"我先講一下現在美國要求的資安認證就是CMMC嘛這一個體制之下那是在2019年有提出來那這一個網路安全成熟度的模型這個東西2019年提出來那過去是其實是分類的很"},{"start":548.025,"end":570.591,"text":"調整是從五個級別那現在是2.0百是三個級別那就是基礎防護、進階防護跟專家級防護我們要談的是當我們要進入美方的市場當我們要進入人家的國防產業鏈要接軌就是說我們不必要重新說我們要加入要加入但是如果我們最基本的資安的要求沒有達到的話"},{"start":572.333,"end":578.546,"text":"那你怎麼加入那所以我想知道說怎麼樣跟美國的這個合作這就很重要你的規格你的規制"},{"start":581.404,"end":603.346,"text":"臺灣不能夠我們自己做一版然後跟美國如果不通用的話那重新每次的這一種你申請的過程或者說你要進入他們的產業鏈的這種驗證的過程那就會非常長不知道部長在這方面我想請教一下現在FMC的2.0的架構出來之後我們現在已經積極的在跟美方做溝通"},{"start":605.007,"end":629.414,"text":"細節部分可能沒有辦法透露但是總之就是說有一個關鍵就是說到底在台灣這裡本地有沒有第三方的認證的一個機制那如果美國可以在這裡設立一個第三方認證的機制的話對於整個CMMC通過的認證所需要的費用會相當大幅度的減低這一點是很重要的我們現在正在跟他密切的在做研討當中"},{"start":630.134,"end":651.229,"text":"今年是2024年,2026年就全面實施,所以說,我們是希望能夠先把這個強制的要求先釐清,這個沒有什麼機密性,就是你如果要進入他們的產業鏈,你就必須要打到這些東西,那這個可能未來要跟我們自己的……詳細的這個溝通狀況可能還是讓我有一點……"},{"start":652.149,"end":674.234,"text":"對,我們跟他再積極的再討論評估。謝謝部長,我還是在強調,就是包含如果我們直接進入他們的DIU的這種網站,進去的這種視覺化或者是可親近性就很高了,因為他是要跟民間商業,他要有效率的,能夠,那剛剛這邊也寫了嘛,要說你的語言。"},{"start":675.314,"end":694.122,"text":"說不是國防部的語言,國防部的語言我說聽不太懂,因為我們是來自民間的。說我們的語言,說民間的語言,那這樣子我們的產業才能夠進去美國的市場。那所以包含未來,你說你這個系統上面,網路上面的這種情報上面的分享,或者是說你要讓更多民間的產業進來的話,說他們的語言。"},{"start":697.603,"end":699.984,"text":"接下來請林益君委員 林益君委員不在 請徐巧欣委員上台諮詢"}]}}}}