{"id":154625,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154625","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1b498260953197f8a78badc000d1961ca39103cf15d5982f90a5faf2fa6890fc356d507e2e3f6be45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"10:38:04 - 10:49:49","影片長度":"00:11:45","會議時間":"2024-07-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「數位貨幣發行之規劃與貨幣之數位轉型」、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、數位發展部就「創造金融科技創新發展空間與扶植金融科技業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【7月8日及10日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-10","start_time":"2024-07-10T10:38:04+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-10T10:49:49+08:00","duration":705,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-21"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":425,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時38分）謝謝主席，有請彭主委。彭主委，你直接上來，沒關係啦。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：主委好。主委，我想今天請你做專題報告的重點其實在扶植金融科技業啦，在你的報告當中沒有看到機器人理財，我是覺得有點失望，我以為你會以這個為重點，因為之前您就已經對外有一些政策宣示方向了。不過以金融科技業的這個定義來看的話，透過資訊或網路科技來輔助金融機構或提升金融服務，這個在你的定義當中啦，可是這樣看起來金融科技好像是金融的附屬產業，它沒有主體性可言啦，感覺上是如此啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：以致於看你去處理沙盒的部分還是以試辦為主啊，對不對？真正沙盒部分的家數寥寥無幾啊！金管會抱持這樣心態的情況底下，那個是科技金融而不是金融科技啊，就你的這個定義上是這樣子，所以主委，金融科技業的扶植很關鍵，你一定要把它主體化，不是嗎？主委，請說。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，報告委員，其實我們的沙盒實驗條例第十八條特別明定金管會負有扶植金融科技業的責任，這是法條所明定的。我們整個金融科技業假設用市場的區分，有所謂的FinTech跟TechFin，比如剛剛委員講的應該是講TechFin，就是由科技業者執行跟金融業務有關的，主體是科技業，那另外一個FinTech的主體是金融業做這個……"],["郭委員國文：對，FinTech跟TechFin。"],["彭主任委員金隆：過去一直都認為政府的重點都著重在FinTech，而沒重在TechFin……"],["郭委員國文：對！"],["彭主任委員金隆：TechFin最重要的是能不能創造像國外所謂的獨角獸，大概是這個概念。"],["郭委員國文：是。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們也關注到國際的趨勢，國際上金融業跟科技業的合作，大概從國際的FinTech發展裡面可以看出來，幾乎絕大多數、大概六、七成以上的所謂TechFin是協助金融業去增加效率，但是還是有差不多10%是想要做創新的，我想這個就是我們未來想要做的。"],["郭委員國文：對，我要跟你談的就是創新的這個部分我們實在是太落後了啦，講白一點，我就問你一個嘛，現在用機器人理財是最流行的，以機器人理財來說，有一個人如果成立一家公司，用機器人在進行理財，用自有資金的部分的話，我請問一下這算金融？是歸您管的嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果他今天是牽涉到對投資的決策規劃，比如像我們的投顧、投信就會做這個事情嘛……"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["彭主任委員金隆：所以如果他是去涉及到做這個，我們的法定業務，當然是歸金管會所轄。"],["郭委員國文：對，但是到目前為止他的資金來源也不一樣嘛，一個是IPO、一個是私募、一個是自有資產嘛，性質上還不一樣啊，如果是自己的錢自己來操作呢，這還算你管的嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們通常金管會會主管的是要對不特定大眾提供，而且長期以此為業……"],["郭委員國文：對，就是大眾資金嘛！那問題來了，過往其實我們對於投信業者的部分都一定要把它法人化，那你現在在推動所謂資產管理中心，資產管理中心就有家族辦公室的問題，家族辦公室不想要讓機構掌握的話，他就會找所謂的專業投資人嘛，也就是CFA嘛，CFA的部分臺灣有開放嗎？臺灣有像美國、像香港、像新加坡，當我們想要跟他爭奪競爭業務的情況底下，所謂的個人投信、專業的投資人在沒有開放的情況底下，你如何帶動這個資產管理中心的發展？"],["彭主任委員金隆：就我的理解，現行的架構確實沒有沒有針對這一塊……"],["郭委員國文：沒有嘛，那你有沒有考慮開放啊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：在我們未來整個規劃所謂的資產管理中心時，我們會針各種的課程開始考慮……"],["郭委員國文：就是個人投信、專業投資人、家族公司不想要被機構綁架的情況底下，他只信任一個個人，個人投資人開放的重要性，你如果沒有讓他合法化的話，他也可能帶整個家族的資金過來，結果你沒有讓他過來，那你的資產管理中心怎麼建構？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這是其中的一塊，我們的目標課程裡面比如說……"],["郭委員國文：很專業的、很重要的一塊啊！主委，所以你有沒有考慮個人投信的部分跟既有的法人投信有一個競合的可能性？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我會請我們的證期局這邊來……"],["郭委員國文：你應該好好思考一下啦！真的，基本上，我們法規本身要鬆綁，金融科技就是要鬆綁法規，沙盒實驗就是要鬆綁法規，你的整個資產管理就是本身要鬆綁法規，你如果這個都還沒有建構起來的話，要怎麼成立資產管理中心？"],["彭主任委員金隆：確實我們過去的法制是有一定的思維跟框架啦。"],["郭委員國文：對，而且在金融管理中心如果能把這樣的個人專業投資人建構起來的話，還可以減少詐騙耶，你知道嗎？你給他一個license，你允許他一個執照，予以納管，其他的都是非法，有沒有可能？現階段很多詐騙就是假設個人是專業，而取代所謂投顧投信，然後跟著我走，就是這樣子的現況啊，不是嗎？亂象就這樣產生了，制度上的缺漏就是如此啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝委員提供一個可以思考的方向啦，我想過去我們金管會傳統就是對所謂的機構管理，都是對不特定大眾有做這樣……"],["郭委員國文：對，你應該站在這個角度，也需要順便打詐嘛，好不好？你思考一下開放個人投信專業投資人。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：第二個部分，理財機器人的部分，一般是跟ETF掛勾在一起的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：還有一個跟高頻交易掛勾在一起的，來，我讓你看一下。下禮拜說要討論當沖的議題啦，證券公會猴急的跟什麼一樣，那根本是明年底要處理的事情，還遊說、lobby本委員會委員！","我給你看一下機器人理財，機器人理財根據你們證交所的計算，當沖金額最高的獲利人數總共23人而已，這個人是自然人，他背後是法人，總獲利207億啦，平均一個人是獲利9億之多，我把它切開分成境內、境外及自然人、法人，很不巧的，就是這些境外的法人賺的最多，194億，當沖賺最多的是靠機器人的高頻交易啊，結果境內的法人還輸3億多，境內的自然人輸了291億。主委，這個當沖交易有符合金融正義嗎？有符合租稅正義嗎？你真的要思考一下，你是不是要黃規彭隨？這個問題你好好思考一下，不是下禮拜一找你來問你就答應他啊，對不對？你們報告已經送出去了，你看這個獲利的結果，韭菜是誰？國內的；獲利的是誰？是境外的，透過高頻交易、透過機器人交易而獲得，這個是不是競爭上的不公平？租稅上有正義嗎？金融上有正義嗎？主委，請回答。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想剛剛委員提醒這個，我會請證期局及交易所好好的把這些資料做分析，再來看看中間的一些行為模式……"],["郭委員國文：今天第一次看到這些資料吧！我跟你說，有兩大公司啦！有兩間法人公司，就在證交所旁邊而已，它聘請了大概300位的工程師，你自己去查一下，都是印度人，1個月可以大賺1億啊！1個月就可以大賺1億。這種情況，你想境外的這23家公司都不受金管會的AI運用所監管，主委，你知道嗎？你知道這種狀況嗎？制度可以這樣延續嗎？制度都不檢討嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這個我們會來瞭解及檢討，我們會……"],["郭委員國文：你要好好思考一下，另外……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我會立刻責成證期局及交易所好好來……"],["郭委員國文：對，好好慎重思考一下。","另外一個部分，有關於沙盒實驗，本席一而再、再而三做提醒，沙盒與試辦本身性質不同，剛剛的FinTech與TechFin也都不同，金融科技與科技金融不一樣，不一樣的情況底下，就應該要分開計算，不是嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：這樣你才會有壓力及目標，試辦的性質基本上是行政規範的鬆綁，可是沙盒的部分其實是在法令上的鬆綁，層級是不同的……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，沙盒是針對法律的鬆綁部分……"],["郭委員國文：怎麼可以混為一談呢？好，我最後要問一個問題，跟總裁有關係，楊總裁請……"],["彭主任委員金隆：好，謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：主委，請留步。","總裁，主委有去拜訪過您，有關於資本集中的問題、關於後門條款的部分，你到底給他什麼樣的指示？有什麼要交代他的，請說一下，好不好？你們私底下會談的重點。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，我們就是講到第七十二條之二，這個我們私下有談論過，就是第七十二條之二有那些排除條款，我們是不是來檢討一下看看……"],["郭委員國文：對，應該檢討一下，站在你的立場，就要檢討一下，他好像虛心受教，他好像要檢討，他還跟本席講1個月啦……"],["楊總裁金龍：是、是、是。"],["郭委員國文：如果具體要檢討，具體要檢討哪幾個，你有沒有跟他講？"],["楊總裁金龍：我是沒有跟他講……"],["郭委員國文：你沒有具體跟他講？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有、沒有具體。"],["郭委員國文：不用客氣嘛！剛剛王世堅委員已經把他交給你了，你就直接跟他講就好了啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：我想我們再來跟他們討論一下看看。"],["郭委員國文：好，總裁請回去，主委請。","主委，上個禮拜銀行局莊局長跟我講，加上所謂後門條款是29%，但是金管會統計到113年5月份依第七十二條之二的總共是26.54%……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["郭委員國文：跟你們109年的26.7%相比，看起來反而減少喔！主委，可是我要讓你看一個數字，你去看38家銀行的母數、基數，從44.8兆成長到56.8兆，總共增加了12兆耶！同樣的比例，你有沒有算過，到底多少資金放貸到整個土建融裡頭去，多了幾兆？你自己算。"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，剛剛那個……"],["郭委員國文：多了幾兆？大概足足多了4兆之多啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["郭委員國文：是不是足足多了4兆之多？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：就絕對數額來看，比例看什麼比例，你要看健康數字啊！整個央行再怎麼總體信用管制，有效嗎？沒效啦！多了4兆耶！而且你每年存款金額大概多3兆多，彭主委，多3兆多的意思就是你又多了1兆可以放貸的空間，這樣房地產不可能不漲，對不對？你們沒有其他約束的方式嗎？彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在主要是第七十二條之二有個30%的限制，剛剛的比例確實分母及分子兩個同步上升，比例看起來是穩定，但那個量是增加。"],["郭委員國文：總體信用管制不能只有比例上的思考，還有金額上的思考，你看增加了4兆，房地產怎麼可能不漲！總體信用管制這3年多來為什麼比較沒有成效？就是銀行放大款，怪不得我們金融業會賺那麼多錢，放給土建融最容易嘛！我請問一下，彭主委，你管不管？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們幾次在委員會裡面有蠻多委員關心這個，其實我們內部已經籌設一個小組，在針對……"],["郭委員國文：除了比例上的限制，有沒有考慮總額的限制？"],["彭主任委員金隆：總額的部分，可能要跟央行一起來討論。"],["郭委員國文：楊總裁，你覺得有沒有需要總額的限制？照這種存款比率一直持續增加，一年存款多3兆多的情況底下，你再怎麼總體信用管制有效嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們來討論討論，好不好？"],["郭委員國文：你們討論一下，好不好？"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["郭委員國文：除了比例限制，也要總額限制，好不好？"],["楊總裁金龍：是、是、是。"],["郭委員國文：好，那麻煩兩位，謝謝！"],["主席：郭國文召集人質詢時間結束，謝謝郭委員。","現在請王鴻薇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-21","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","顏寬恒","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王世堅","李彥秀","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","賴惠員","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","楊瓊瓔","李坤城"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-07-10"],"gazette_id":"1137301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央銀行楊總裁金龍就「數位貨幣發行之規劃與貨幣之數位轉型」、金融監督管理委員會彭\n主任委員金隆、數位發展部就「創造金融科技創新發展空間與扶植金融科技業」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137301_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"154625","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154625","tool":"pyannote","id":"154625-pyannote"},"job_id":"RcYz6VT0M82bdWmg","queued_at":"2024-07-10 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\"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 663.131, \"end\": 663.151, \"score\": 0.02}, {\"word\": \"!\"}, {\"word\": \"楊\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 664.858, \"end\": 664.978, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 664.978, \"end\": 665.038, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 665.038, \"end\": 665.078, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 665.078, \"end\": 665.198, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 665.198, \"end\": 665.338, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 665.338, \"end\": 665.458, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 665.458, \"end\": 665.578, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 665.578, \"end\": 665.638, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 665.638, \"end\": 665.798, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 665.798, \"end\": 665.919, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 665.919, \"end\": 665.939, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 687.543, \"end\": 687.723, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"託\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 687.723, \"end\": 687.743, \"score\": 0.007}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,133 --> 00:00:28,299\n主委好主委我想今天請你做專題報告的重點其實在扶植這個金融科技業那在你的報告當中我沒有看到機器人理財我是覺得還有點失望我以為你會以這個為重點因為之前您就已經對外有一些政策宣示一個方向了\n\n2\n00:00:29,179 --> 00:00:40,144\n不過以金融科技業的這個定義來看的話通過資訊或網路科技來輔導或者是提升金融服務就是在定義當中可是這樣看起來\n\n3\n00:00:41,513 --> 00:00:41,573\n拜託主委\n\n4\n00:01:06,171 --> 00:01:32,649\n金融科技業的扶植很關鍵你一定要把它主體化不是嗎主委請說是報告那個其實我們那個商務實驗條例第18條特別明定金管會負有扶植金融科技業的責任這是法條所明定我們整個金融科技業呢假設用我們市場的區分有所謂的FinTech跟TechFin剛才比如說剛才委員講的就是應該是講TechFin就是由科技業者\n\n5\n00:01:33,449 --> 00:01:59,923\n執行跟金融業務有關的主體是科技業那另外一個Fintech主體是金融業做這個那過去一直都認為說政府的重點都著重在Fintech而沒重在TechfinTechfin最重要的是它能不能創造像國外所謂的獨角獸這個在這個概念其實我們也關注到國際的趨勢國際這兩個金融業跟科技業的合作大概從國際這個Fintech的發展裡面大概\n\n6\n00:02:00,503 --> 00:02:03,446\n我講這個就是我們未來想要做的我就跟你談創新的這個\n\n7\n00:02:15,740 --> 00:02:16,560\n拜託請問一下,這是貴您管的嗎?\n\n8\n00:02:32,246 --> 00:02:57,448\n這個如果說他今天是牽涉到比如說對投資的決策規劃那個比如說像我們的投顧啊投信啊他就會做這個事情嘛所以這部分如果他去涉及到做這個我們的法定的業務那當然是歸金管會主對但是他目前為止他資金來源也不一樣嘛一個IPO一個是私募一個是自有資產嘛性質消耗還不一樣啊我如果是自己的錢我來自己操作呢這還算你管的嗎\n\n9\n00:03:00,014 --> 00:03:24,759\n我們通常金融管理委員會主管它是要對不特定大眾提供這樣．對,就是大眾資金嘛那問題來了,過往其實我們對於這個投薪業者的部分都一定要把它法人化嘛那你現在在推動的所謂資產管理中心資產管理中心它就有一個加入辦公室的問題加入辦公室它不想要讓機構掌握的話它就會找所謂的專業投資人嘛也就是CFA嘛那CFA的部分台灣有開放嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:25,799 --> 00:03:37,444\n台灣有向美國向香港向新加坡當我們想要跟他爭奪競爭業務的情況底下你所謂的個人投信專業的投資人你沒有開放的情況底下你如何帶動這個資產管理中心的發展\n\n11\n00:03:38,052 --> 00:04:06,715\n就我的理解現行的架構確實沒有針對這一塊那你有沒有考慮開放啊這個在我們未來在整個規劃這個所謂的資產管理中心我們會針對各種的課程就個人投信專業投資人家族公司不想要被機構綁架的情況底下他只信任一個個人那個人投資人的這個開放的重要性你如果沒有讓他合法化的話他也可能帶整個家族的資金過來結果你沒有讓他過來那你的資產管理中心怎麼建構\n\n12\n00:04:07,886 --> 00:04:21,875\n對,這是其中的一塊,我們的目標課程裡面很專業的、很重要的一塊啊,主委所以你們考慮個人投信的部分跟既有的法人投信有一個競合的可能性這個我們會請我們的政期局這邊來你應該好好思考一下\n\n13\n00:04:22,876 --> 00:04:44,632\n真的就基本上我們這法規本身要鬆綁金融科技就是要鬆綁法規沙盒實現就鬆綁法規你的整個資產管理就要本身要鬆綁法規你如果這個都還沒有兼顧起來的話你怎麼成立資產管理中心這個確實我們過去的法制是有一定的思維跟框架對而且金融管理中心你如果這樣的個人的專業投資人你有兼顧起來的話你還可以減少詐騙你知道嗎\n\n14\n00:04:47,587 --> 00:05:03,639\n你給他一個license你允許他一個執照你納管其他的說非法有沒有可能現階段很多詐騙就假設個人是專業而取代所謂投顧投信然後跟著我走就是這樣子的情況啊不是嗎亂象就這樣產生啊制度上的缺漏就是如此啊\n\n15\n00:05:04,419 --> 00:05:27,770\n謝謝委員提供一個可以思考的方向啦我想過去我們在金管會傳統就是對所謂的機構管理都是對不特定大眾有做這個意見行為對你應該站在這個角度也需要順便打詐嘛好不好你思考一下開放個人投信專業投資人第二個部分呢理財機器人的部分一般是跟ETF掛鉤在一起的還有一個跟高頻交易掛鉤在一起的來我讓你看一下\n\n16\n00:05:28,670 --> 00:05:55,726\n下禮拜說要討論當中的議題啦。證券供貨侯籍的跟什麼一樣?那根本年底要處理的事情還遊說拉比本委員會委員。我跟你看一下機器人理財。機器人理財根據你們證交所的計算當中最高的金額總共獲利的是23人而已。這個人是自然人,他背後是法人啦。獲利是207億啦。平均一個人是獲利9億之多啦。那我把它切開境內\n\n17\n00:05:56,707 --> 00:06:23,179\n近外自然人跟法人很不巧的就是這些境外的法人賺了最多194億當中賺最多的錢是靠機器人的高頻交易啊就境內的法人還輸3億多境內的自然人輸了291億主委這個當中交易有符合金融正義嗎有符合租稅正義嗎\n\n18\n00:06:24,673 --> 00:06:41,773\n你真的要思考一下你是不是要還規啊、捧水啊這個問題你要思考一下不是下禮拜一找你來問你就答應他啊對不對你們報告已經送出去啦你看這個獲利的結果韭菜是誰?國內的獲利的是誰?境外的\n\n19\n00:06:43,052 --> 00:07:00,543\n透過高評交易、透過極情的交易而獲得,看這是不是競爭上的不公平?豬雖上有爭議嗎?金融上有爭議嗎?主委請回答所以我想剛才委員提醒這個我會請政體局跟交易所好好的把這些資料做一個分析然後再來看看中間的一些行為今天第一次看到這些資料吧\n\n20\n00:07:01,563 --> 00:07:29,401\n我跟你說有兩大公司啦有兩間法人公司啦就在這個證交所旁邊而已啦他聘請了大概300位的工程師啦你去查一下都是印度人一個月可以大賺1億啊一個月就可以大賺1億所以這種情況你想這些境外的23家公司他都不受金管會的AI運用所所監管喔知不知道嗎你知道這種狀況嗎制度可以這樣延續嗎\n\n21\n00:07:52,438 --> 00:07:52,738\n主委,請留步。\n\n22\n00:08:16,869 --> 00:08:34,176\n總裁,主委有去拜訪過您有關於資本集中的問題關於後門條款的部分,你到底給他什麼樣的指示?有什麼樣要交代他的?請說一下好不好?你們私底下會談重點我們在講到就是說27條,這是我們私底下有談論過就是說這個27條之二,它有那些的排除條款我們是不是來檢討一下看看\n\n23\n00:08:42,739 --> 00:08:43,319\n主委總裁請回去主委請\n\n24\n00:09:09,912 --> 00:09:31,879\n主委上個禮拜銀行局莊局長跟我講說加上所謂後門條款29但是到113年5月份總共的金管會統計72條之二是26.54跟你109年相比是26.7看起來反而減少喔可是主委我要讓你看一個數字你去看喔38家銀行的母數\n\n25\n00:09:32,859 --> 00:09:56,232\n基數從44.8兆成長了56.8兆總共增加了12兆同樣的比例你有沒有算過到底多少資金放貸到整個土建籠子裡頭去?多了幾兆?你自己算多了幾兆嘛?足足大概多了4兆之多啦是不是足足多了4兆之多?\n\n26\n00:09:58,194 --> 00:10:16,400\n就絕對數額來看比例,看什麼比例?你要看健康數字啊!整個央行總裁再怎麼總體信用管制,有好沒?沒好啦!多了4兆耶!而且你每年存款金額大概要多3兆多!\n\n27\n00:10:17,762 --> 00:10:44,633\n彭主委,多三兆多的意思就是說你又多了一兆可以放貸的空間欸!房地產的話不可能不漲嘛!對不對?你都沒有其他約束的方式嗎?彭主委現在是主要是剛才72之2他有個30啦就是剛剛那個比例確實兩個分母跟分子同步上升比例看起來是會穩定但那個值是量是增加總體信用管制不能只有比例上的思考還有金額上的思考嘛!\n\n28\n00:10:46,021 --> 00:11:03,151\n你看增加了市造、房地產怎麼可能不漲?總體信用管制這三年多來為什麼比較沒有成效?就是銀行放大款!怪不得我們金融業會賺那麼多錢!放給土建銅最容易嘛!\n\n29\n00:11:04,858 --> 00:11:05,939\n楊總裁你覺得有沒有需要總額的限制?\n\n30\n00:11:27,543 --> 00:11:27,743\n拜託兩位,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11133\t28299\t主委好主委我想今天請你做專題報告的重點其實在扶植這個金融科技業那在你的報告當中我沒有看到機器人理財我是覺得還有點失望我以為你會以這個為重點因為之前您就已經對外有一些政策宣示一個方向了\n29179\t40144\t不過以金融科技業的這個定義來看的話通過資訊或網路科技來輔導或者是提升金融服務就是在定義當中可是這樣看起來\n41513\t41573\t拜託主委\n66171\t92649\t金融科技業的扶植很關鍵你一定要把它主體化不是嗎主委請說是報告那個其實我們那個商務實驗條例第18條特別明定金管會負有扶植金融科技業的責任這是法條所明定我們整個金融科技業呢假設用我們市場的區分有所謂的FinTech跟TechFin剛才比如說剛才委員講的就是應該是講TechFin就是由科技業者\n93449\t119923\t執行跟金融業務有關的主體是科技業那另外一個Fintech主體是金融業做這個那過去一直都認為說政府的重點都著重在Fintech而沒重在TechfinTechfin最重要的是它能不能創造像國外所謂的獨角獸這個在這個概念其實我們也關注到國際的趨勢國際這兩個金融業跟科技業的合作大概從國際這個Fintech的發展裡面大概\n120503\t123446\t我講這個就是我們未來想要做的我就跟你談創新的這個\n135740\t136560\t拜託請問一下,這是貴您管的嗎?\n152246\t177448\t這個如果說他今天是牽涉到比如說對投資的決策規劃那個比如說像我們的投顧啊投信啊他就會做這個事情嘛所以這部分如果他去涉及到做這個我們的法定的業務那當然是歸金管會主對但是他目前為止他資金來源也不一樣嘛一個IPO一個是私募一個是自有資產嘛性質消耗還不一樣啊我如果是自己的錢我來自己操作呢這還算你管的嗎\n180014\t204759\t我們通常金融管理委員會主管它是要對不特定大眾提供這樣．對,就是大眾資金嘛那問題來了,過往其實我們對於這個投薪業者的部分都一定要把它法人化嘛那你現在在推動的所謂資產管理中心資產管理中心它就有一個加入辦公室的問題加入辦公室它不想要讓機構掌握的話它就會找所謂的專業投資人嘛也就是CFA嘛那CFA的部分台灣有開放嗎?\n205799\t217444\t台灣有向美國向香港向新加坡當我們想要跟他爭奪競爭業務的情況底下你所謂的個人投信專業的投資人你沒有開放的情況底下你如何帶動這個資產管理中心的發展\n218052\t246715\t就我的理解現行的架構確實沒有針對這一塊那你有沒有考慮開放啊這個在我們未來在整個規劃這個所謂的資產管理中心我們會針對各種的課程就個人投信專業投資人家族公司不想要被機構綁架的情況底下他只信任一個個人那個人投資人的這個開放的重要性你如果沒有讓他合法化的話他也可能帶整個家族的資金過來結果你沒有讓他過來那你的資產管理中心怎麼建構\n247886\t261875\t對,這是其中的一塊,我們的目標課程裡面很專業的、很重要的一塊啊,主委所以你們考慮個人投信的部分跟既有的法人投信有一個競合的可能性這個我們會請我們的政期局這邊來你應該好好思考一下\n262876\t284632\t真的就基本上我們這法規本身要鬆綁金融科技就是要鬆綁法規沙盒實現就鬆綁法規你的整個資產管理就要本身要鬆綁法規你如果這個都還沒有兼顧起來的話你怎麼成立資產管理中心這個確實我們過去的法制是有一定的思維跟框架對而且金融管理中心你如果這樣的個人的專業投資人你有兼顧起來的話你還可以減少詐騙你知道嗎\n287587\t303639\t你給他一個license你允許他一個執照你納管其他的說非法有沒有可能現階段很多詐騙就假設個人是專業而取代所謂投顧投信然後跟著我走就是這樣子的情況啊不是嗎亂象就這樣產生啊制度上的缺漏就是如此啊\n304419\t327770\t謝謝委員提供一個可以思考的方向啦我想過去我們在金管會傳統就是對所謂的機構管理都是對不特定大眾有做這個意見行為對你應該站在這個角度也需要順便打詐嘛好不好你思考一下開放個人投信專業投資人第二個部分呢理財機器人的部分一般是跟ETF掛鉤在一起的還有一個跟高頻交易掛鉤在一起的來我讓你看一下\n328670\t355726\t下禮拜說要討論當中的議題啦。證券供貨侯籍的跟什麼一樣?那根本年底要處理的事情還遊說拉比本委員會委員。我跟你看一下機器人理財。機器人理財根據你們證交所的計算當中最高的金額總共獲利的是23人而已。這個人是自然人,他背後是法人啦。獲利是207億啦。平均一個人是獲利9億之多啦。那我把它切開境內\n356707\t383179\t近外自然人跟法人很不巧的就是這些境外的法人賺了最多194億當中賺最多的錢是靠機器人的高頻交易啊就境內的法人還輸3億多境內的自然人輸了291億主委 這個當中交易有符合金融正義嗎有符合租稅正義嗎\n384673\t401773\t你真的要思考一下你是不是要還規啊、捧水啊這個問題你要思考一下不是下禮拜一找你來問你就答應他啊 對不對你們報告已經送出去啦你看這個獲利的結果韭菜是誰?國內的獲利的是誰?境外的\n403052\t420543\t透過高評交易、透過極情的交易而獲得,看這是不是競爭上的不公平?豬雖上有爭議嗎?金融上有爭議嗎?主委請回答所以我想剛才委員提醒這個我會請政體局跟交易所好好的把這些資料做一個分析然後再來看看中間的一些行為今天第一次看到這些資料吧\n421563\t449401\t我跟你說有兩大公司啦有兩間法人公司啦就在這個證交所旁邊而已啦他聘請了大概300位的工程師啦你去查一下都是印度人一個月可以大賺1億啊一個月就可以大賺1億所以這種情況你想這些境外的23家公司他都不受金管會的AI運用所所監管喔知不知道嗎你知道這種狀況嗎制度可以這樣延續嗎\n450674\t472278\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n472438\t472738\t主委,請留步。\n496869\t514176\t總裁,主委有去拜訪過您有關於資本集中的問題關於後門條款的部分,你到底給他什麼樣的指示?有什麼樣要交代他的?請說一下好不好?你們私底下會談重點我們在講到就是說27條,這是我們私底下有談論過就是說這個27條之二,它有那些的排除條款我們是不是來檢討一下看看\n522739\t523319\t主委 總裁請回去 主委請\n549912\t571879\t主委上個禮拜銀行局莊局長跟我講說加上所謂後門條款29但是到113年5月份總共的金管會統計72條之二是26.54跟你109年相比是26.7看起來反而減少喔可是主委我要讓你看一個數字你去看喔38家銀行的母數\n572859\t596232\t基數從44.8兆成長了56.8兆總共增加了12兆同樣的比例你有沒有算過到底多少資金放貸到整個土建籠子裡頭去?多了幾兆?你自己算多了幾兆嘛?足足大概多了4兆之多啦是不是足足多了4兆之多?\n598194\t616400\t就絕對數額來看比例,看什麼比例?你要看健康數字啊!整個央行總裁再怎麼總體信用管制,有好沒?沒好啦!多了4兆耶!而且你每年存款金額大概要多3兆多!\n617762\t644633\t彭主委,多三兆多的意思就是說你又多了一兆可以放貸的空間欸!房地產的話不可能不漲嘛!對不對?你都沒有其他約束的方式嗎?彭主委現在是主要是剛才72之2他有個30啦就是剛剛那個比例確實兩個分母跟分子同步上升比例看起來是會穩定但那個值是量是增加總體信用管制不能只有比例上的思考還有金額上的思考嘛!\n646021\t663151\t你看增加了市造、房地產怎麼可能不漲?總體信用管制這三年多來為什麼比較沒有成效?就是銀行放大款!怪不得我們金融業會賺那麼多錢!放給土建銅最容易嘛!\n664858\t665939\t楊總裁你覺得有沒有需要總額的限制?\n687543\t687743\t拜託兩位,謝謝。\n","txt":"主委好主委我想今天請你做專題報告的重點其實在扶植這個金融科技業那在你的報告當中我沒有看到機器人理財我是覺得還有點失望我以為你會以這個為重點因為之前您就已經對外有一些政策宣示一個方向了\n不過以金融科技業的這個定義來看的話通過資訊或網路科技來輔導或者是提升金融服務就是在定義當中可是這樣看起來\n拜託主委\n金融科技業的扶植很關鍵你一定要把它主體化不是嗎主委請說是報告那個其實我們那個商務實驗條例第18條特別明定金管會負有扶植金融科技業的責任這是法條所明定我們整個金融科技業呢假設用我們市場的區分有所謂的FinTech跟TechFin剛才比如說剛才委員講的就是應該是講TechFin就是由科技業者\n執行跟金融業務有關的主體是科技業那另外一個Fintech主體是金融業做這個那過去一直都認為說政府的重點都著重在Fintech而沒重在TechfinTechfin最重要的是它能不能創造像國外所謂的獨角獸這個在這個概念其實我們也關注到國際的趨勢國際這兩個金融業跟科技業的合作大概從國際這個Fintech的發展裡面大概\n我講這個就是我們未來想要做的我就跟你談創新的這個\n拜託請問一下,這是貴您管的嗎?\n這個如果說他今天是牽涉到比如說對投資的決策規劃那個比如說像我們的投顧啊投信啊他就會做這個事情嘛所以這部分如果他去涉及到做這個我們的法定的業務那當然是歸金管會主對但是他目前為止他資金來源也不一樣嘛一個IPO一個是私募一個是自有資產嘛性質消耗還不一樣啊我如果是自己的錢我來自己操作呢這還算你管的嗎\n我們通常金融管理委員會主管它是要對不特定大眾提供這樣．對,就是大眾資金嘛那問題來了,過往其實我們對於這個投薪業者的部分都一定要把它法人化嘛那你現在在推動的所謂資產管理中心資產管理中心它就有一個加入辦公室的問題加入辦公室它不想要讓機構掌握的話它就會找所謂的專業投資人嘛也就是CFA嘛那CFA的部分台灣有開放嗎?\n台灣有向美國向香港向新加坡當我們想要跟他爭奪競爭業務的情況底下你所謂的個人投信專業的投資人你沒有開放的情況底下你如何帶動這個資產管理中心的發展\n就我的理解現行的架構確實沒有針對這一塊那你有沒有考慮開放啊這個在我們未來在整個規劃這個所謂的資產管理中心我們會針對各種的課程就個人投信專業投資人家族公司不想要被機構綁架的情況底下他只信任一個個人那個人投資人的這個開放的重要性你如果沒有讓他合法化的話他也可能帶整個家族的資金過來結果你沒有讓他過來那你的資產管理中心怎麼建構\n對,這是其中的一塊,我們的目標課程裡面很專業的、很重要的一塊啊,主委所以你們考慮個人投信的部分跟既有的法人投信有一個競合的可能性這個我們會請我們的政期局這邊來你應該好好思考一下\n真的就基本上我們這法規本身要鬆綁金融科技就是要鬆綁法規沙盒實現就鬆綁法規你的整個資產管理就要本身要鬆綁法規你如果這個都還沒有兼顧起來的話你怎麼成立資產管理中心這個確實我們過去的法制是有一定的思維跟框架對而且金融管理中心你如果這樣的個人的專業投資人你有兼顧起來的話你還可以減少詐騙你知道嗎\n你給他一個license你允許他一個執照你納管其他的說非法有沒有可能現階段很多詐騙就假設個人是專業而取代所謂投顧投信然後跟著我走就是這樣子的情況啊不是嗎亂象就這樣產生啊制度上的缺漏就是如此啊\n謝謝委員提供一個可以思考的方向啦我想過去我們在金管會傳統就是對所謂的機構管理都是對不特定大眾有做這個意見行為對你應該站在這個角度也需要順便打詐嘛好不好你思考一下開放個人投信專業投資人第二個部分呢理財機器人的部分一般是跟ETF掛鉤在一起的還有一個跟高頻交易掛鉤在一起的來我讓你看一下\n下禮拜說要討論當中的議題啦。證券供貨侯籍的跟什麼一樣?那根本年底要處理的事情還遊說拉比本委員會委員。我跟你看一下機器人理財。機器人理財根據你們證交所的計算當中最高的金額總共獲利的是23人而已。這個人是自然人,他背後是法人啦。獲利是207億啦。平均一個人是獲利9億之多啦。那我把它切開境內\n近外自然人跟法人很不巧的就是這些境外的法人賺了最多194億當中賺最多的錢是靠機器人的高頻交易啊就境內的法人還輸3億多境內的自然人輸了291億主委 這個當中交易有符合金融正義嗎有符合租稅正義嗎\n你真的要思考一下你是不是要還規啊、捧水啊這個問題你要思考一下不是下禮拜一找你來問你就答應他啊 對不對你們報告已經送出去啦你看這個獲利的結果韭菜是誰?國內的獲利的是誰?境外的\n透過高評交易、透過極情的交易而獲得,看這是不是競爭上的不公平?豬雖上有爭議嗎?金融上有爭議嗎?主委請回答所以我想剛才委員提醒這個我會請政體局跟交易所好好的把這些資料做一個分析然後再來看看中間的一些行為今天第一次看到這些資料吧\n我跟你說有兩大公司啦有兩間法人公司啦就在這個證交所旁邊而已啦他聘請了大概300位的工程師啦你去查一下都是印度人一個月可以大賺1億啊一個月就可以大賺1億所以這種情況你想這些境外的23家公司他都不受金管會的AI運用所所監管喔知不知道嗎你知道這種狀況嗎制度可以這樣延續嗎\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n主委,請留步。\n總裁,主委有去拜訪過您有關於資本集中的問題關於後門條款的部分,你到底給他什麼樣的指示?有什麼樣要交代他的?請說一下好不好?你們私底下會談重點我們在講到就是說27條,這是我們私底下有談論過就是說這個27條之二,它有那些的排除條款我們是不是來檢討一下看看\n主委 總裁請回去 主委請\n主委上個禮拜銀行局莊局長跟我講說加上所謂後門條款29但是到113年5月份總共的金管會統計72條之二是26.54跟你109年相比是26.7看起來反而減少喔可是主委我要讓你看一個數字你去看喔38家銀行的母數\n基數從44.8兆成長了56.8兆總共增加了12兆同樣的比例你有沒有算過到底多少資金放貸到整個土建籠子裡頭去?多了幾兆?你自己算多了幾兆嘛?足足大概多了4兆之多啦是不是足足多了4兆之多?\n就絕對數額來看比例,看什麼比例?你要看健康數字啊!整個央行總裁再怎麼總體信用管制,有好沒?沒好啦!多了4兆耶!而且你每年存款金額大概要多3兆多!\n彭主委,多三兆多的意思就是說你又多了一兆可以放貸的空間欸!房地產的話不可能不漲嘛!對不對?你都沒有其他約束的方式嗎?彭主委現在是主要是剛才72之2他有個30啦就是剛剛那個比例確實兩個分母跟分子同步上升比例看起來是會穩定但那個值是量是增加總體信用管制不能只有比例上的思考還有金額上的思考嘛!\n你看增加了市造、房地產怎麼可能不漲?總體信用管制這三年多來為什麼比較沒有成效?就是銀行放大款!怪不得我們金融業會賺那麼多錢!放給土建銅最容易嘛!\n楊總裁你覺得有沒有需要總額的限制?\n拜託兩位,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.133 --> 00:28.299\n主委好主委我想今天請你做專題報告的重點其實在扶植這個金融科技業那在你的報告當中我沒有看到機器人理財我是覺得還有點失望我以為你會以這個為重點因為之前您就已經對外有一些政策宣示一個方向了\n\n00:29.179 --> 00:40.144\n不過以金融科技業的這個定義來看的話通過資訊或網路科技來輔導或者是提升金融服務就是在定義當中可是這樣看起來\n\n00:41.513 --> 00:41.573\n拜託主委\n\n01:06.171 --> 01:32.649\n金融科技業的扶植很關鍵你一定要把它主體化不是嗎主委請說是報告那個其實我們那個商務實驗條例第18條特別明定金管會負有扶植金融科技業的責任這是法條所明定我們整個金融科技業呢假設用我們市場的區分有所謂的FinTech跟TechFin剛才比如說剛才委員講的就是應該是講TechFin就是由科技業者\n\n01:33.449 --> 01:59.923\n執行跟金融業務有關的主體是科技業那另外一個Fintech主體是金融業做這個那過去一直都認為說政府的重點都著重在Fintech而沒重在TechfinTechfin最重要的是它能不能創造像國外所謂的獨角獸這個在這個概念其實我們也關注到國際的趨勢國際這兩個金融業跟科技業的合作大概從國際這個Fintech的發展裡面大概\n\n02:00.503 --> 02:03.446\n我講這個就是我們未來想要做的我就跟你談創新的這個\n\n02:15.740 --> 02:16.560\n拜託請問一下,這是貴您管的嗎?\n\n02:32.246 --> 02:57.448\n這個如果說他今天是牽涉到比如說對投資的決策規劃那個比如說像我們的投顧啊投信啊他就會做這個事情嘛所以這部分如果他去涉及到做這個我們的法定的業務那當然是歸金管會主對但是他目前為止他資金來源也不一樣嘛一個IPO一個是私募一個是自有資產嘛性質消耗還不一樣啊我如果是自己的錢我來自己操作呢這還算你管的嗎\n\n03:00.014 --> 03:24.759\n我們通常金融管理委員會主管它是要對不特定大眾提供這樣．對,就是大眾資金嘛那問題來了,過往其實我們對於這個投薪業者的部分都一定要把它法人化嘛那你現在在推動的所謂資產管理中心資產管理中心它就有一個加入辦公室的問題加入辦公室它不想要讓機構掌握的話它就會找所謂的專業投資人嘛也就是CFA嘛那CFA的部分台灣有開放嗎?\n\n03:25.799 --> 03:37.444\n台灣有向美國向香港向新加坡當我們想要跟他爭奪競爭業務的情況底下你所謂的個人投信專業的投資人你沒有開放的情況底下你如何帶動這個資產管理中心的發展\n\n03:38.052 --> 04:06.715\n就我的理解現行的架構確實沒有針對這一塊那你有沒有考慮開放啊這個在我們未來在整個規劃這個所謂的資產管理中心我們會針對各種的課程就個人投信專業投資人家族公司不想要被機構綁架的情況底下他只信任一個個人那個人投資人的這個開放的重要性你如果沒有讓他合法化的話他也可能帶整個家族的資金過來結果你沒有讓他過來那你的資產管理中心怎麼建構\n\n04:07.886 --> 04:21.875\n對,這是其中的一塊,我們的目標課程裡面很專業的、很重要的一塊啊,主委所以你們考慮個人投信的部分跟既有的法人投信有一個競合的可能性這個我們會請我們的政期局這邊來你應該好好思考一下\n\n04:22.876 --> 04:44.632\n真的就基本上我們這法規本身要鬆綁金融科技就是要鬆綁法規沙盒實現就鬆綁法規你的整個資產管理就要本身要鬆綁法規你如果這個都還沒有兼顧起來的話你怎麼成立資產管理中心這個確實我們過去的法制是有一定的思維跟框架對而且金融管理中心你如果這樣的個人的專業投資人你有兼顧起來的話你還可以減少詐騙你知道嗎\n\n04:47.587 --> 05:03.639\n你給他一個license你允許他一個執照你納管其他的說非法有沒有可能現階段很多詐騙就假設個人是專業而取代所謂投顧投信然後跟著我走就是這樣子的情況啊不是嗎亂象就這樣產生啊制度上的缺漏就是如此啊\n\n05:04.419 --> 05:27.770\n謝謝委員提供一個可以思考的方向啦我想過去我們在金管會傳統就是對所謂的機構管理都是對不特定大眾有做這個意見行為對你應該站在這個角度也需要順便打詐嘛好不好你思考一下開放個人投信專業投資人第二個部分呢理財機器人的部分一般是跟ETF掛鉤在一起的還有一個跟高頻交易掛鉤在一起的來我讓你看一下\n\n05:28.670 --> 05:55.726\n下禮拜說要討論當中的議題啦。證券供貨侯籍的跟什麼一樣?那根本年底要處理的事情還遊說拉比本委員會委員。我跟你看一下機器人理財。機器人理財根據你們證交所的計算當中最高的金額總共獲利的是23人而已。這個人是自然人,他背後是法人啦。獲利是207億啦。平均一個人是獲利9億之多啦。那我把它切開境內\n\n05:56.707 --> 06:23.179\n近外自然人跟法人很不巧的就是這些境外的法人賺了最多194億當中賺最多的錢是靠機器人的高頻交易啊就境內的法人還輸3億多境內的自然人輸了291億主委這個當中交易有符合金融正義嗎有符合租稅正義嗎\n\n06:24.673 --> 06:41.773\n你真的要思考一下你是不是要還規啊、捧水啊這個問題你要思考一下不是下禮拜一找你來問你就答應他啊對不對你們報告已經送出去啦你看這個獲利的結果韭菜是誰?國內的獲利的是誰?境外的\n\n06:43.052 --> 07:00.543\n透過高評交易、透過極情的交易而獲得,看這是不是競爭上的不公平?豬雖上有爭議嗎?金融上有爭議嗎?主委請回答所以我想剛才委員提醒這個我會請政體局跟交易所好好的把這些資料做一個分析然後再來看看中間的一些行為今天第一次看到這些資料吧\n\n07:01.563 --> 07:29.401\n我跟你說有兩大公司啦有兩間法人公司啦就在這個證交所旁邊而已啦他聘請了大概300位的工程師啦你去查一下都是印度人一個月可以大賺1億啊一個月就可以大賺1億所以這種情況你想這些境外的23家公司他都不受金管會的AI運用所所監管喔知不知道嗎你知道這種狀況嗎制度可以這樣延續嗎\n\n07:52.438 --> 07:52.738\n主委,請留步。\n\n08:16.869 --> 08:34.176\n總裁,主委有去拜訪過您有關於資本集中的問題關於後門條款的部分,你到底給他什麼樣的指示?有什麼樣要交代他的?請說一下好不好?你們私底下會談重點我們在講到就是說27條,這是我們私底下有談論過就是說這個27條之二,它有那些的排除條款我們是不是來檢討一下看看\n\n08:42.739 --> 08:43.319\n主委總裁請回去主委請\n\n09:09.912 --> 09:31.879\n主委上個禮拜銀行局莊局長跟我講說加上所謂後門條款29但是到113年5月份總共的金管會統計72條之二是26.54跟你109年相比是26.7看起來反而減少喔可是主委我要讓你看一個數字你去看喔38家銀行的母數\n\n09:32.859 --> 09:56.232\n基數從44.8兆成長了56.8兆總共增加了12兆同樣的比例你有沒有算過到底多少資金放貸到整個土建籠子裡頭去?多了幾兆?你自己算多了幾兆嘛?足足大概多了4兆之多啦是不是足足多了4兆之多?\n\n09:58.194 --> 10:16.400\n就絕對數額來看比例,看什麼比例?你要看健康數字啊!整個央行總裁再怎麼總體信用管制,有好沒?沒好啦!多了4兆耶!而且你每年存款金額大概要多3兆多!\n\n10:17.762 --> 10:44.633\n彭主委,多三兆多的意思就是說你又多了一兆可以放貸的空間欸!房地產的話不可能不漲嘛!對不對?你都沒有其他約束的方式嗎?彭主委現在是主要是剛才72之2他有個30啦就是剛剛那個比例確實兩個分母跟分子同步上升比例看起來是會穩定但那個值是量是增加總體信用管制不能只有比例上的思考還有金額上的思考嘛!\n\n10:46.021 --> 11:03.151\n你看增加了市造、房地產怎麼可能不漲?總體信用管制這三年多來為什麼比較沒有成效?就是銀行放大款!怪不得我們金融業會賺那麼多錢!放給土建銅最容易嘛!\n\n11:04.858 --> 11:05.939\n楊總裁你覺得有沒有需要總額的限制?\n\n11:27.543 --> 11:27.743\n拜託兩位,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.133,"end":28.299,"text":"主委好主委我想今天請你做專題報告的重點其實在扶植這個金融科技業那在你的報告當中我沒有看到機器人理財我是覺得還有點失望我以為你會以這個為重點因為之前您就已經對外有一些政策宣示一個方向了"},{"start":29.179,"end":40.144,"text":"不過以金融科技業的這個定義來看的話通過資訊或網路科技來輔導或者是提升金融服務就是在定義當中可是這樣看起來"},{"start":41.513,"end":41.573,"text":"拜託主委"},{"start":66.171,"end":92.649,"text":"金融科技業的扶植很關鍵你一定要把它主體化不是嗎主委請說是報告那個其實我們那個商務實驗條例第18條特別明定金管會負有扶植金融科技業的責任這是法條所明定我們整個金融科技業呢假設用我們市場的區分有所謂的FinTech跟TechFin剛才比如說剛才委員講的就是應該是講TechFin就是由科技業者"},{"start":93.449,"end":119.923,"text":"執行跟金融業務有關的主體是科技業那另外一個Fintech主體是金融業做這個那過去一直都認為說政府的重點都著重在Fintech而沒重在TechfinTechfin最重要的是它能不能創造像國外所謂的獨角獸這個在這個概念其實我們也關注到國際的趨勢國際這兩個金融業跟科技業的合作大概從國際這個Fintech的發展裡面大概"},{"start":120.503,"end":123.446,"text":"我講這個就是我們未來想要做的我就跟你談創新的這個"},{"start":135.74,"end":136.56,"text":"拜託請問一下,這是貴您管的嗎?"},{"start":152.246,"end":177.448,"text":"這個如果說他今天是牽涉到比如說對投資的決策規劃那個比如說像我們的投顧啊投信啊他就會做這個事情嘛所以這部分如果他去涉及到做這個我們的法定的業務那當然是歸金管會主對但是他目前為止他資金來源也不一樣嘛一個IPO一個是私募一個是自有資產嘛性質消耗還不一樣啊我如果是自己的錢我來自己操作呢這還算你管的嗎"},{"start":180.014,"end":204.759,"text":"我們通常金融管理委員會主管它是要對不特定大眾提供這樣．對,就是大眾資金嘛那問題來了,過往其實我們對於這個投薪業者的部分都一定要把它法人化嘛那你現在在推動的所謂資產管理中心資產管理中心它就有一個加入辦公室的問題加入辦公室它不想要讓機構掌握的話它就會找所謂的專業投資人嘛也就是CFA嘛那CFA的部分台灣有開放嗎?"},{"start":205.799,"end":217.444,"text":"台灣有向美國向香港向新加坡當我們想要跟他爭奪競爭業務的情況底下你所謂的個人投信專業的投資人你沒有開放的情況底下你如何帶動這個資產管理中心的發展"},{"start":218.052,"end":246.715,"text":"就我的理解現行的架構確實沒有針對這一塊那你有沒有考慮開放啊這個在我們未來在整個規劃這個所謂的資產管理中心我們會針對各種的課程就個人投信專業投資人家族公司不想要被機構綁架的情況底下他只信任一個個人那個人投資人的這個開放的重要性你如果沒有讓他合法化的話他也可能帶整個家族的資金過來結果你沒有讓他過來那你的資產管理中心怎麼建構"},{"start":247.886,"end":261.875,"text":"對,這是其中的一塊,我們的目標課程裡面很專業的、很重要的一塊啊,主委所以你們考慮個人投信的部分跟既有的法人投信有一個競合的可能性這個我們會請我們的政期局這邊來你應該好好思考一下"},{"start":262.876,"end":284.632,"text":"真的就基本上我們這法規本身要鬆綁金融科技就是要鬆綁法規沙盒實現就鬆綁法規你的整個資產管理就要本身要鬆綁法規你如果這個都還沒有兼顧起來的話你怎麼成立資產管理中心這個確實我們過去的法制是有一定的思維跟框架對而且金融管理中心你如果這樣的個人的專業投資人你有兼顧起來的話你還可以減少詐騙你知道嗎"},{"start":287.587,"end":303.639,"text":"你給他一個license你允許他一個執照你納管其他的說非法有沒有可能現階段很多詐騙就假設個人是專業而取代所謂投顧投信然後跟著我走就是這樣子的情況啊不是嗎亂象就這樣產生啊制度上的缺漏就是如此啊"},{"start":304.419,"end":327.77,"text":"謝謝委員提供一個可以思考的方向啦我想過去我們在金管會傳統就是對所謂的機構管理都是對不特定大眾有做這個意見行為對你應該站在這個角度也需要順便打詐嘛好不好你思考一下開放個人投信專業投資人第二個部分呢理財機器人的部分一般是跟ETF掛鉤在一起的還有一個跟高頻交易掛鉤在一起的來我讓你看一下"},{"start":328.67,"end":355.726,"text":"下禮拜說要討論當中的議題啦。證券供貨侯籍的跟什麼一樣?那根本年底要處理的事情還遊說拉比本委員會委員。我跟你看一下機器人理財。機器人理財根據你們證交所的計算當中最高的金額總共獲利的是23人而已。這個人是自然人,他背後是法人啦。獲利是207億啦。平均一個人是獲利9億之多啦。那我把它切開境內"},{"start":356.707,"end":383.179,"text":"近外自然人跟法人很不巧的就是這些境外的法人賺了最多194億當中賺最多的錢是靠機器人的高頻交易啊就境內的法人還輸3億多境內的自然人輸了291億主委 這個當中交易有符合金融正義嗎有符合租稅正義嗎"},{"start":384.673,"end":401.773,"text":"你真的要思考一下你是不是要還規啊、捧水啊這個問題你要思考一下不是下禮拜一找你來問你就答應他啊 對不對你們報告已經送出去啦你看這個獲利的結果韭菜是誰?國內的獲利的是誰?境外的"},{"start":403.052,"end":420.543,"text":"透過高評交易、透過極情的交易而獲得,看這是不是競爭上的不公平?豬雖上有爭議嗎?金融上有爭議嗎?主委請回答所以我想剛才委員提醒這個我會請政體局跟交易所好好的把這些資料做一個分析然後再來看看中間的一些行為今天第一次看到這些資料吧"},{"start":421.563,"end":449.401,"text":"我跟你說有兩大公司啦有兩間法人公司啦就在這個證交所旁邊而已啦他聘請了大概300位的工程師啦你去查一下都是印度人一個月可以大賺1億啊一個月就可以大賺1億所以這種情況你想這些境外的23家公司他都不受金管會的AI運用所所監管喔知不知道嗎你知道這種狀況嗎制度可以這樣延續嗎"},{"start":450.674,"end":472.278,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":472.438,"end":472.738,"text":"主委,請留步。"},{"start":496.869,"end":514.176,"text":"總裁,主委有去拜訪過您有關於資本集中的問題關於後門條款的部分,你到底給他什麼樣的指示?有什麼樣要交代他的?請說一下好不好?你們私底下會談重點我們在講到就是說27條,這是我們私底下有談論過就是說這個27條之二,它有那些的排除條款我們是不是來檢討一下看看"},{"start":522.739,"end":523.319,"text":"主委 總裁請回去 主委請"},{"start":549.912,"end":571.879,"text":"主委上個禮拜銀行局莊局長跟我講說加上所謂後門條款29但是到113年5月份總共的金管會統計72條之二是26.54跟你109年相比是26.7看起來反而減少喔可是主委我要讓你看一個數字你去看喔38家銀行的母數"},{"start":572.859,"end":596.232,"text":"基數從44.8兆成長了56.8兆總共增加了12兆同樣的比例你有沒有算過到底多少資金放貸到整個土建籠子裡頭去?多了幾兆?你自己算多了幾兆嘛?足足大概多了4兆之多啦是不是足足多了4兆之多?"},{"start":598.194,"end":616.4,"text":"就絕對數額來看比例,看什麼比例?你要看健康數字啊!整個央行總裁再怎麼總體信用管制,有好沒?沒好啦!多了4兆耶!而且你每年存款金額大概要多3兆多!"},{"start":617.762,"end":644.633,"text":"彭主委,多三兆多的意思就是說你又多了一兆可以放貸的空間欸!房地產的話不可能不漲嘛!對不對?你都沒有其他約束的方式嗎?彭主委現在是主要是剛才72之2他有個30啦就是剛剛那個比例確實兩個分母跟分子同步上升比例看起來是會穩定但那個值是量是增加總體信用管制不能只有比例上的思考還有金額上的思考嘛!"},{"start":646.021,"end":663.151,"text":"你看增加了市造、房地產怎麼可能不漲?總體信用管制這三年多來為什麼比較沒有成效?就是銀行放大款!怪不得我們金融業會賺那麼多錢!放給土建銅最容易嘛!"},{"start":664.858,"end":665.939,"text":"楊總裁你覺得有沒有需要總額的限制?"},{"start":687.543,"end":687.743,"text":"拜託兩位,謝謝。"}]}}}}