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00:01:11,714\n財政和經營能力有所極限的情況之下所以當地方有重大的公共建設還有相關的議題的時候我們都希望能夠透過民間的力量來投資參與除了減輕政府財政上的負擔也期待能夠提升建設還有營運的效能來滿足社會\n\n4\n00:01:16,457 --> 00:01:40,783\n大眾對於公共建設的需求我們從這個畜産法第三條的內容來看法規上所適用有關這個公共建設的範圍包括了交通還有這個環境、農業、醫療、文教等等幾乎涵蓋民眾的日常生活那公共利益上影響的層面甚廣所以在管控的這個措施上我想還是必須要謹慎\n\n5\n00:01:41,923 --> 00:01:46,228\n所以第一個想要請教的是財政部在促參法第5條第二項當中\n\n6\n00:01:48,427 --> 00:02:12,826\n有關這個主辦機關的這個規定那該條文的內容規範的主辦的這個機關指的是辦理這個民間參與公共建設相關業務的機關在中央當然是我們目的事業主管機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市則由縣市政府作為主辦的機關對於中央和地方政府之間\n\n7\n00:02:13,667 --> 00:02:33,187\n我想就教的是地方政府在辦理促參案的時候都是自行辦理再報備給我們財政部就好了嗎還是說有什麼這個規模或類別的這個促參案需要由中央政府機關另外再來做審核\n\n8\n00:02:33,968 --> 00:03:02,975\n那這方面有沒有相關的這個規定是謝謝委員的指教那有關那個初參法的規定財政部是擔任初參法的法令的主管機關是那各個其他的機關是依據他的任務跟需求那在中央包括各部會及所屬機關那在地方政府包括直轄市縣市政府這些都可以依據他們的公共建設的需求來辦理那並不需要說\n\n9\n00:03:04,256 --> 00:03:19,993\n將他的這個個案再報到財政部那除非有在執行的過程裡面有涉及出攤法法令的解釋或是辦理的程序上有需要財政部協助的那我們會給予提供協助大概的一個分工是這樣子\n\n10\n00:03:21,495 --> 00:03:43,553\n因為我們看到有一些促參的案件他履約的時間可能長達30年到50年當時間一拉長的情況之下產生的爭議有可能也會提升甚至也會影響到服務的品質對於這個案件履約的設定的期限也是由主辦的機關和民間機構自行決定的嗎\n\n11\n00:03:47,303 --> 00:04:11,485\n是的一般來講我們初參法的這個採購可以分成政府來規劃完成之後來發包那另外一種是由民間自行提出規劃案之後向主辦機關來申請那不管是哪一種方式其實契約裡面都會按照我們初參法的規定每一年還有他們需要的時間來辦理所謂的履約的營運績效評定\n\n12\n00:04:13,407 --> 00:04:33,700\n那這個營運績效評定就會就民間機構他們在過去一年或是固定的時間內他到底他的履約的品質如何進行一些評定那當然如果有一些瑕疵或缺失的部分當然都可以要求來改善那如果表現良好的也會有一個叫優先訂約的機制\n\n13\n00:04:35,522 --> 00:04:48,578\n讓這個民間機構來繼續的來一定時間內再來履約所以他的機制是這樣的一個安排市長我想請教一下那個履約時間的訂定的認定標準他有沒有一個基本的條件\n\n14\n00:04:50,040 --> 00:05:15,211\n基本上並沒有一定的規範但是主要的就是透過財務試算因為出差案件希望民間來投資那民間的投資他會要求有一定程度的獲利所以在每個個案的情況下他會依據他的收支的一個情況去評估他的財務的可行性也就是說民間的投報率是不是有達到\n\n15\n00:05:15,971 --> 00:05:37,397\n那在這個投報率的這個要求底下呢才會去訂定他的履約的期限好那另外一方面就是履約時間過短可能會招商困難但履約的時間設定過長的話對公部門來說也會失去調整的一個彈性進而會這個對於服務的品質也難以把關\n\n16\n00:05:38,177 --> 00:06:06,498\n那這方面我們應該要如何來權衡?是的我想履約期限的長短在契約裡面都有一定的機制在運作譬如說如果太長的這個履約期的話那在一定時間內不管是主辦機關跟民間機構都可以來提出修約那修約的程序由任一方提出之後經過雙方協調或協商之後呢就可以來修正契約的一個內容那來改善這個履約的品質\n\n17\n00:06:07,239 --> 00:06:20,267\n好那我想在討論的這個部分就是我們剛剛所詢問的這個幾個問題啦齁那我們也看到過去這個中國啦齁就是靠著一帶一路把各國的這個基礎建設進行滲透啦齁那\n\n18\n00:06:22,928 --> 00:06:48,746\n在我們促參法所規範的一個公共建設的範圍包括了這個自來水還有能源醫療甚至是這個包括還有這個鐵路還有港口的建設那其實和普羅大眾的這個民生日常都息息相關其他包括工業商業還有科技的這個設施甚至還有我們新加入的這個數位的建設那我\n\n19\n00:06:49,406 --> 00:07:14,432\n我想這些都是我們國家這個核心的技術倘若有這個促參案主辦的這個機關有意或無意的引進中資讓中國的這個勢力滲透到我們眾多的這個基礎建設核心的這個技術那我想請教就是現行的法規對於中資的部分我們是否有足夠的一個量能來管控\n\n20\n00:07:15,938 --> 00:07:38,245\n對於外國廠商要參與我們的促餐案它是被允許的但是如果是中資的部分因為它在投資的時候它的資金要進到台灣的時候會有一個資金的一個審議的一個機制是由我們經濟部這邊來進行審查所以中資要滲透進來在機制上是有一定的一個防止\n\n21\n00:07:39,025 --> 00:07:39,045\n市長\n\n22\n00:08:05,180 --> 00:08:21,951\n我們擔心的是假冒成外資的中資企業他有可能是中資投資到外國的廠商然後再投資到台灣的相關的建設工程那對於這方面我們有沒有一個比較好的管控的機制\n\n23\n00:08:24,003 --> 00:08:47,250\n這部分會比較複雜但是就實務上在執行因為外國的公司來投標之後他在新建期勢必要跟我們當地的廠商來合作所以並不是那麼容易就是說他可以全盤的來控制整個計畫或是他全盤的掌握所以這部分在實際運作上目前是沒有發現說有這樣的一個情況\n\n24\n00:08:47,830 --> 00:09:16,975\n好我們也希望說這個部分我們持續去了解避免相關的這個疑慮在我們這個相關的這個促參的案件中會有這個中資的現象那另外在我們前置的修法當中也把數位建設納入第三條所規範的公共建設理那這讓我們比較好奇的是因為它反映現在許多公共建設並不限於硬體建設也符合現在政府發展的數位治理\n\n25\n00:09:17,455 --> 00:09:46,246\n更是符合各領域發展這個跨域創新所需的這個部分但是數位建設的範疇同樣是五花八門那可能涵蓋到群眾的這個部分無遠弗屆我想請教就是目前我們數位建設促參案件辦理的這個成效如何那案件的數量多不多以及在辦理的這個當中我們部會機關與民間機構的合作有沒有遭遇到什麼樣的困難\n\n26\n00:09:46,949 --> 00:10:14,853\n是的謝謝委員那在我們修法的時候把四個公共建設類別把它新增進去那包括我們的綠電還有我們的數位建設那目前數位建設還沒有新的案例但是我們也發現就是說單純的數位建設要來作為公共建設投資不管是硬體或軟體大概都會去跟其他的公共建設類別有做一個結合所以我們現在也在等著\n\n27\n00:10:15,293 --> 00:10:29,381\n看數位部或是各地方政府的這些資訊中心他們有沒有這個需求會用這種方式來做這個招商那希望民間來投資目前是沒有一個個案來採用這種方式\n\n28\n00:10:30,382 --> 00:10:54,081\n那在數位建設當中不免也會提到的就是這個資安的問題那我也想說在我們數位這個服務中所要考量的因素當然包括大數據雲端數據的內容都要有妥善的一個防護那我想再就教就是對於數位促參案在資安上的保護措施我們是否需要再有更嚴謹的一個這個規範\n\n29\n00:10:56,896 --> 00:11:22,958\n目前完全都是按照行政院他要求的這個資安的一個管控的機制不管你是公部門或是私部門都會一體適用所以未來如果數位建設出產案他的這個防範的等級還是一樣的好那就請我們這個市長這邊我們財政部對於相關的這個規範一定要有一個比較好的一個掌握是的是的好以上謝謝謝謝謝謝委員\n\n30\n00:11:30,082 --> 00:11:30,384\n呃省委員發\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9309\t16101\t好 謝謝主席羅委員那我們請財政部的理事長好 請財政部\n22317\t48616\t市長早委員好我們今天要討論的是有關公私部門合作營運模式在法制上爭議的這個探究和改善那我想因為公部門和私部門合作的模式和範圍都相當的多元及廣泛所以我應該就這個我們促進民間參與公共建設法也就是這個促參法的內容來做討論那由於我們政府在\n49821\t71714\t財政和經營能力有所極限的情況之下所以當地方有重大的公共建設還有相關的議題的時候我們都希望能夠透過民間的力量來投資參與除了減輕政府財政上的負擔也期待能夠提升建設還有營運的效能來滿足社會\n76457\t100783\t大眾對於公共建設的需求我們從這個畜産法第三條的內容來看法規上所適用有關這個公共建設的範圍包括了交通還有這個環境、農業、醫療、文教等等幾乎涵蓋民眾的日常生活那公共利益上影響的層面甚廣所以在管控的這個措施上我想還是必須要謹慎\n101923\t106228\t所以第一個想要請教的是財政部在促參法第5條第二項當中\n108427\t132826\t有關這個主辦機關的這個規定那該條文的內容規範的主辦的這個機關指的是辦理這個民間參與公共建設相關業務的機關在中央當然是我們目的事業主管機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市則由縣市政府作為主辦的機關對於中央和地方政府之間\n133667\t153187\t我想就教的是地方政府在辦理促參案的時候都是自行辦理再報備給我們財政部就好了嗎還是說有什麼這個規模或類別的這個促參案需要由中央政府機關另外再來做審核\n153968\t182975\t那這方面有沒有相關的這個規定是 謝謝委員的指教那有關那個初參法的規定財政部是擔任初參法的法令的主管機關是那各個其他的機關是依據他的任務跟需求那在中央包括各部會及所屬機關那在地方政府包括直轄市縣市政府這些都可以依據他們的公共建設的需求來辦理那並不需要說\n184256\t199993\t將他的這個個案再報到財政部那除非有在執行的過程裡面有涉及出攤法法令的解釋或是辦理的程序上有需要財政部協助的那我們會給予提供協助大概的一個分工是這樣子\n201495\t223553\t因為我們看到有一些促參的案件他履約的時間可能長達30年到50年當時間一拉長的情況之下產生的爭議有可能也會提升甚至也會影響到服務的品質對於這個案件履約的設定的期限也是由主辦的機關和民間機構自行決定的嗎\n227303\t251485\t是的 一般來講我們初參法的這個採購可以分成政府來規劃完成之後來發包那另外一種是由民間自行提出規劃案之後向主辦機關來申請那不管是哪一種方式其實契約裡面都會按照我們初參法的規定每一年還有他們需要的時間來辦理所謂的履約的營運績效評定\n253407\t273700\t那這個營運績效評定就會就民間機構他們在過去一年或是固定的時間內他到底他的履約的品質如何進行一些評定那當然如果有一些瑕疵或缺失的部分當然都可以要求來改善那如果表現良好的也會有一個叫優先訂約的機制\n275522\t288578\t讓這個民間機構來繼續的來一定時間內再來履約所以他的機制是這樣的一個安排市長我想請教一下那個履約時間的訂定的認定標準他有沒有一個基本的條件\n290040\t315211\t基本上並沒有一定的規範但是主要的就是透過財務試算因為出差案件希望民間來投資那民間的投資他會要求有一定程度的獲利所以在每個個案的情況下他會依據他的收支的一個情況去評估他的財務的可行性也就是說民間的投報率是不是有達到\n315971\t337397\t那在這個投報率的這個要求底下呢才會去訂定他的履約的期限好那另外一方面就是履約時間過短可能會招商困難但履約的時間設定過長的話對公部門來說也會失去調整的一個彈性進而會這個對於服務的品質也難以把關\n338177\t366498\t那這方面我們應該要如何來權衡?是的我想履約期限的長短在契約裡面都有一定的機制在運作譬如說如果太長的這個履約期的話那在一定時間內不管是主辦機關跟民間機構都可以來提出修約那修約的程序由任一方提出之後經過雙方協調或協商之後呢就可以來修正契約的一個內容那來改善這個履約的品質\n367239\t380267\t好 那我想在討論的這個部分就是我們剛剛所詢問的這個幾個問題啦齁那我們也看到過去這個中國啦齁就是靠著一帶一路把各國的這個基礎建設進行滲透啦齁那\n382928\t408746\t在我們促參法所規範的一個公共建設的範圍包括了這個自來水還有能源醫療甚至是這個包括還有這個鐵路還有港口的建設那其實和普羅大眾的這個民生日常都息息相關其他包括工業商業還有科技的這個設施甚至還有我們新加入的這個數位的建設那我\n409406\t434432\t我想這些都是我們國家這個核心的技術倘若有這個促參案主辦的這個機關有意或無意的引進中資讓中國的這個勢力滲透到我們眾多的這個基礎建設核心的這個技術那我想請教就是現行的法規對於中資的部分我們是否有足夠的一個量能來管控\n435938\t458245\t對於外國廠商要參與我們的促餐案它是被允許的但是如果是中資的部分因為它在投資的時候它的資金要進到台灣的時候會有一個資金的一個審議的一個機制是由我們經濟部這邊來進行審查所以中資要滲透進來在機制上是有一定的一個防止\n459025\t459045\t市長\n485180\t501951\t我們擔心的是假冒成外資的中資企業他有可能是中資投資到外國的廠商然後再投資到台灣的相關的建設工程那對於這方面我們有沒有一個比較好的管控的機制\n504003\t527250\t這部分會比較複雜但是就實務上在執行因為外國的公司來投標之後他在新建期勢必要跟我們當地的廠商來合作所以並不是那麼容易就是說他可以全盤的來控制整個計畫或是他全盤的掌握所以這部分在實際運作上目前是沒有發現說有這樣的一個情況\n527830\t556975\t好 我們也希望說這個部分我們持續去了解避免相關的這個疑慮在我們這個相關的這個促參的案件中會有這個中資的現象那另外在我們前置的修法當中也把數位建設納入第三條所規範的公共建設理那這讓我們比較好奇的是因為它反映現在許多公共建設並不限於硬體建設也符合現在政府發展的數位治理\n557455\t586246\t更是符合各領域發展這個跨域創新所需的這個部分但是數位建設的範疇同樣是五花八門那可能涵蓋到群眾的這個部分無遠弗屆我想請教就是目前我們數位建設促參案件辦理的這個成效如何那案件的數量多不多以及在辦理的這個當中我們部會機關與民間機構的合作有沒有遭遇到什麼樣的困難\n586949\t614853\t是的 謝謝委員那在我們修法的時候把四個公共建設類別把它新增進去那包括我們的綠電還有我們的數位建設那目前數位建設還沒有新的案例但是我們也發現就是說單純的數位建設要來作為公共建設投資不管是硬體或軟體大概都會去跟其他的公共建設類別有做一個結合所以我們現在也在等著\n615293\t629381\t看數位部或是各地方政府的這些資訊中心他們有沒有這個需求會用這種方式來做這個招商那希望民間來投資目前是沒有一個個案來採用這種方式\n630382\t654081\t那在數位建設當中不免也會提到的就是這個資安的問題那我也想說在我們數位這個服務中所要考量的因素當然包括大數據雲端數據的內容都要有妥善的一個防護那我想再就教就是對於數位促參案在資安上的保護措施我們是否需要再有更嚴謹的一個這個規範\n656896\t682958\t目前完全都是按照行政院他要求的這個資安的一個管控的機制不管你是公部門或是私部門都會一體適用所以未來如果數位建設出產案他的這個防範的等級還是一樣的好 那就請我們這個市長這邊我們財政部對於相關的這個規範一定要有一個比較好的一個掌握是的 是的好 以上謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員\n690082\t690384\t呃 省委員發\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席羅委員那我們請財政部的理事長好 請財政部\n市長早委員好我們今天要討論的是有關公私部門合作營運模式在法制上爭議的這個探究和改善那我想因為公部門和私部門合作的模式和範圍都相當的多元及廣泛所以我應該就這個我們促進民間參與公共建設法也就是這個促參法的內容來做討論那由於我們政府在\n財政和經營能力有所極限的情況之下所以當地方有重大的公共建設還有相關的議題的時候我們都希望能夠透過民間的力量來投資參與除了減輕政府財政上的負擔也期待能夠提升建設還有營運的效能來滿足社會\n大眾對於公共建設的需求我們從這個畜産法第三條的內容來看法規上所適用有關這個公共建設的範圍包括了交通還有這個環境、農業、醫療、文教等等幾乎涵蓋民眾的日常生活那公共利益上影響的層面甚廣所以在管控的這個措施上我想還是必須要謹慎\n所以第一個想要請教的是財政部在促參法第5條第二項當中\n有關這個主辦機關的這個規定那該條文的內容規範的主辦的這個機關指的是辦理這個民間參與公共建設相關業務的機關在中央當然是我們目的事業主管機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市則由縣市政府作為主辦的機關對於中央和地方政府之間\n我想就教的是地方政府在辦理促參案的時候都是自行辦理再報備給我們財政部就好了嗎還是說有什麼這個規模或類別的這個促參案需要由中央政府機關另外再來做審核\n那這方面有沒有相關的這個規定是 謝謝委員的指教那有關那個初參法的規定財政部是擔任初參法的法令的主管機關是那各個其他的機關是依據他的任務跟需求那在中央包括各部會及所屬機關那在地方政府包括直轄市縣市政府這些都可以依據他們的公共建設的需求來辦理那並不需要說\n將他的這個個案再報到財政部那除非有在執行的過程裡面有涉及出攤法法令的解釋或是辦理的程序上有需要財政部協助的那我們會給予提供協助大概的一個分工是這樣子\n因為我們看到有一些促參的案件他履約的時間可能長達30年到50年當時間一拉長的情況之下產生的爭議有可能也會提升甚至也會影響到服務的品質對於這個案件履約的設定的期限也是由主辦的機關和民間機構自行決定的嗎\n是的 一般來講我們初參法的這個採購可以分成政府來規劃完成之後來發包那另外一種是由民間自行提出規劃案之後向主辦機關來申請那不管是哪一種方式其實契約裡面都會按照我們初參法的規定每一年還有他們需要的時間來辦理所謂的履約的營運績效評定\n那這個營運績效評定就會就民間機構他們在過去一年或是固定的時間內他到底他的履約的品質如何進行一些評定那當然如果有一些瑕疵或缺失的部分當然都可以要求來改善那如果表現良好的也會有一個叫優先訂約的機制\n讓這個民間機構來繼續的來一定時間內再來履約所以他的機制是這樣的一個安排市長我想請教一下那個履約時間的訂定的認定標準他有沒有一個基本的條件\n基本上並沒有一定的規範但是主要的就是透過財務試算因為出差案件希望民間來投資那民間的投資他會要求有一定程度的獲利所以在每個個案的情況下他會依據他的收支的一個情況去評估他的財務的可行性也就是說民間的投報率是不是有達到\n那在這個投報率的這個要求底下呢才會去訂定他的履約的期限好那另外一方面就是履約時間過短可能會招商困難但履約的時間設定過長的話對公部門來說也會失去調整的一個彈性進而會這個對於服務的品質也難以把關\n那這方面我們應該要如何來權衡?是的我想履約期限的長短在契約裡面都有一定的機制在運作譬如說如果太長的這個履約期的話那在一定時間內不管是主辦機關跟民間機構都可以來提出修約那修約的程序由任一方提出之後經過雙方協調或協商之後呢就可以來修正契約的一個內容那來改善這個履約的品質\n好 那我想在討論的這個部分就是我們剛剛所詢問的這個幾個問題啦齁那我們也看到過去這個中國啦齁就是靠著一帶一路把各國的這個基礎建設進行滲透啦齁那\n在我們促參法所規範的一個公共建設的範圍包括了這個自來水還有能源醫療甚至是這個包括還有這個鐵路還有港口的建設那其實和普羅大眾的這個民生日常都息息相關其他包括工業商業還有科技的這個設施甚至還有我們新加入的這個數位的建設那我\n我想這些都是我們國家這個核心的技術倘若有這個促參案主辦的這個機關有意或無意的引進中資讓中國的這個勢力滲透到我們眾多的這個基礎建設核心的這個技術那我想請教就是現行的法規對於中資的部分我們是否有足夠的一個量能來管控\n對於外國廠商要參與我們的促餐案它是被允許的但是如果是中資的部分因為它在投資的時候它的資金要進到台灣的時候會有一個資金的一個審議的一個機制是由我們經濟部這邊來進行審查所以中資要滲透進來在機制上是有一定的一個防止\n市長\n我們擔心的是假冒成外資的中資企業他有可能是中資投資到外國的廠商然後再投資到台灣的相關的建設工程那對於這方面我們有沒有一個比較好的管控的機制\n這部分會比較複雜但是就實務上在執行因為外國的公司來投標之後他在新建期勢必要跟我們當地的廠商來合作所以並不是那麼容易就是說他可以全盤的來控制整個計畫或是他全盤的掌握所以這部分在實際運作上目前是沒有發現說有這樣的一個情況\n好 我們也希望說這個部分我們持續去了解避免相關的這個疑慮在我們這個相關的這個促參的案件中會有這個中資的現象那另外在我們前置的修法當中也把數位建設納入第三條所規範的公共建設理那這讓我們比較好奇的是因為它反映現在許多公共建設並不限於硬體建設也符合現在政府發展的數位治理\n更是符合各領域發展這個跨域創新所需的這個部分但是數位建設的範疇同樣是五花八門那可能涵蓋到群眾的這個部分無遠弗屆我想請教就是目前我們數位建設促參案件辦理的這個成效如何那案件的數量多不多以及在辦理的這個當中我們部會機關與民間機構的合作有沒有遭遇到什麼樣的困難\n是的 謝謝委員那在我們修法的時候把四個公共建設類別把它新增進去那包括我們的綠電還有我們的數位建設那目前數位建設還沒有新的案例但是我們也發現就是說單純的數位建設要來作為公共建設投資不管是硬體或軟體大概都會去跟其他的公共建設類別有做一個結合所以我們現在也在等著\n看數位部或是各地方政府的這些資訊中心他們有沒有這個需求會用這種方式來做這個招商那希望民間來投資目前是沒有一個個案來採用這種方式\n那在數位建設當中不免也會提到的就是這個資安的問題那我也想說在我們數位這個服務中所要考量的因素當然包括大數據雲端數據的內容都要有妥善的一個防護那我想再就教就是對於數位促參案在資安上的保護措施我們是否需要再有更嚴謹的一個這個規範\n目前完全都是按照行政院他要求的這個資安的一個管控的機制不管你是公部門或是私部門都會一體適用所以未來如果數位建設出產案他的這個防範的等級還是一樣的好 那就請我們這個市長這邊我們財政部對於相關的這個規範一定要有一個比較好的一個掌握是的 是的好 以上謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員\n呃 省委員發\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.309 --> 00:16.101\n好謝謝主席羅委員那我們請財政部的理事長好請財政部\n\n00:22.317 --> 00:48.616\n市長早委員好我們今天要討論的是有關公私部門合作營運模式在法制上爭議的這個探究和改善那我想因為公部門和私部門合作的模式和範圍都相當的多元及廣泛所以我應該就這個我們促進民間參與公共建設法也就是這個促參法的內容來做討論那由於我們政府在\n\n00:49.821 --> 01:11.714\n財政和經營能力有所極限的情況之下所以當地方有重大的公共建設還有相關的議題的時候我們都希望能夠透過民間的力量來投資參與除了減輕政府財政上的負擔也期待能夠提升建設還有營運的效能來滿足社會\n\n01:16.457 --> 01:40.783\n大眾對於公共建設的需求我們從這個畜産法第三條的內容來看法規上所適用有關這個公共建設的範圍包括了交通還有這個環境、農業、醫療、文教等等幾乎涵蓋民眾的日常生活那公共利益上影響的層面甚廣所以在管控的這個措施上我想還是必須要謹慎\n\n01:41.923 --> 01:46.228\n所以第一個想要請教的是財政部在促參法第5條第二項當中\n\n01:48.427 --> 02:12.826\n有關這個主辦機關的這個規定那該條文的內容規範的主辦的這個機關指的是辦理這個民間參與公共建設相關業務的機關在中央當然是我們目的事業主管機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市則由縣市政府作為主辦的機關對於中央和地方政府之間\n\n02:13.667 --> 02:33.187\n我想就教的是地方政府在辦理促參案的時候都是自行辦理再報備給我們財政部就好了嗎還是說有什麼這個規模或類別的這個促參案需要由中央政府機關另外再來做審核\n\n02:33.968 --> 03:02.975\n那這方面有沒有相關的這個規定是謝謝委員的指教那有關那個初參法的規定財政部是擔任初參法的法令的主管機關是那各個其他的機關是依據他的任務跟需求那在中央包括各部會及所屬機關那在地方政府包括直轄市縣市政府這些都可以依據他們的公共建設的需求來辦理那並不需要說\n\n03:04.256 --> 03:19.993\n將他的這個個案再報到財政部那除非有在執行的過程裡面有涉及出攤法法令的解釋或是辦理的程序上有需要財政部協助的那我們會給予提供協助大概的一個分工是這樣子\n\n03:21.495 --> 03:43.553\n因為我們看到有一些促參的案件他履約的時間可能長達30年到50年當時間一拉長的情況之下產生的爭議有可能也會提升甚至也會影響到服務的品質對於這個案件履約的設定的期限也是由主辦的機關和民間機構自行決定的嗎\n\n03:47.303 --> 04:11.485\n是的一般來講我們初參法的這個採購可以分成政府來規劃完成之後來發包那另外一種是由民間自行提出規劃案之後向主辦機關來申請那不管是哪一種方式其實契約裡面都會按照我們初參法的規定每一年還有他們需要的時間來辦理所謂的履約的營運績效評定\n\n04:13.407 --> 04:33.700\n那這個營運績效評定就會就民間機構他們在過去一年或是固定的時間內他到底他的履約的品質如何進行一些評定那當然如果有一些瑕疵或缺失的部分當然都可以要求來改善那如果表現良好的也會有一個叫優先訂約的機制\n\n04:35.522 --> 04:48.578\n讓這個民間機構來繼續的來一定時間內再來履約所以他的機制是這樣的一個安排市長我想請教一下那個履約時間的訂定的認定標準他有沒有一個基本的條件\n\n04:50.040 --> 05:15.211\n基本上並沒有一定的規範但是主要的就是透過財務試算因為出差案件希望民間來投資那民間的投資他會要求有一定程度的獲利所以在每個個案的情況下他會依據他的收支的一個情況去評估他的財務的可行性也就是說民間的投報率是不是有達到\n\n05:15.971 --> 05:37.397\n那在這個投報率的這個要求底下呢才會去訂定他的履約的期限好那另外一方面就是履約時間過短可能會招商困難但履約的時間設定過長的話對公部門來說也會失去調整的一個彈性進而會這個對於服務的品質也難以把關\n\n05:38.177 --> 06:06.498\n那這方面我們應該要如何來權衡?是的我想履約期限的長短在契約裡面都有一定的機制在運作譬如說如果太長的這個履約期的話那在一定時間內不管是主辦機關跟民間機構都可以來提出修約那修約的程序由任一方提出之後經過雙方協調或協商之後呢就可以來修正契約的一個內容那來改善這個履約的品質\n\n06:07.239 --> 06:20.267\n好那我想在討論的這個部分就是我們剛剛所詢問的這個幾個問題啦齁那我們也看到過去這個中國啦齁就是靠著一帶一路把各國的這個基礎建設進行滲透啦齁那\n\n06:22.928 --> 06:48.746\n在我們促參法所規範的一個公共建設的範圍包括了這個自來水還有能源醫療甚至是這個包括還有這個鐵路還有港口的建設那其實和普羅大眾的這個民生日常都息息相關其他包括工業商業還有科技的這個設施甚至還有我們新加入的這個數位的建設那我\n\n06:49.406 --> 07:14.432\n我想這些都是我們國家這個核心的技術倘若有這個促參案主辦的這個機關有意或無意的引進中資讓中國的這個勢力滲透到我們眾多的這個基礎建設核心的這個技術那我想請教就是現行的法規對於中資的部分我們是否有足夠的一個量能來管控\n\n07:15.938 --> 07:38.245\n對於外國廠商要參與我們的促餐案它是被允許的但是如果是中資的部分因為它在投資的時候它的資金要進到台灣的時候會有一個資金的一個審議的一個機制是由我們經濟部這邊來進行審查所以中資要滲透進來在機制上是有一定的一個防止\n\n07:39.025 --> 07:39.045\n市長\n\n08:05.180 --> 08:21.951\n我們擔心的是假冒成外資的中資企業他有可能是中資投資到外國的廠商然後再投資到台灣的相關的建設工程那對於這方面我們有沒有一個比較好的管控的機制\n\n08:24.003 --> 08:47.250\n這部分會比較複雜但是就實務上在執行因為外國的公司來投標之後他在新建期勢必要跟我們當地的廠商來合作所以並不是那麼容易就是說他可以全盤的來控制整個計畫或是他全盤的掌握所以這部分在實際運作上目前是沒有發現說有這樣的一個情況\n\n08:47.830 --> 09:16.975\n好我們也希望說這個部分我們持續去了解避免相關的這個疑慮在我們這個相關的這個促參的案件中會有這個中資的現象那另外在我們前置的修法當中也把數位建設納入第三條所規範的公共建設理那這讓我們比較好奇的是因為它反映現在許多公共建設並不限於硬體建設也符合現在政府發展的數位治理\n\n09:17.455 --> 09:46.246\n更是符合各領域發展這個跨域創新所需的這個部分但是數位建設的範疇同樣是五花八門那可能涵蓋到群眾的這個部分無遠弗屆我想請教就是目前我們數位建設促參案件辦理的這個成效如何那案件的數量多不多以及在辦理的這個當中我們部會機關與民間機構的合作有沒有遭遇到什麼樣的困難\n\n09:46.949 --> 10:14.853\n是的謝謝委員那在我們修法的時候把四個公共建設類別把它新增進去那包括我們的綠電還有我們的數位建設那目前數位建設還沒有新的案例但是我們也發現就是說單純的數位建設要來作為公共建設投資不管是硬體或軟體大概都會去跟其他的公共建設類別有做一個結合所以我們現在也在等著\n\n10:15.293 --> 10:29.381\n看數位部或是各地方政府的這些資訊中心他們有沒有這個需求會用這種方式來做這個招商那希望民間來投資目前是沒有一個個案來採用這種方式\n\n10:30.382 --> 10:54.081\n那在數位建設當中不免也會提到的就是這個資安的問題那我也想說在我們數位這個服務中所要考量的因素當然包括大數據雲端數據的內容都要有妥善的一個防護那我想再就教就是對於數位促參案在資安上的保護措施我們是否需要再有更嚴謹的一個這個規範\n\n10:56.896 --> 11:22.958\n目前完全都是按照行政院他要求的這個資安的一個管控的機制不管你是公部門或是私部門都會一體適用所以未來如果數位建設出產案他的這個防範的等級還是一樣的好那就請我們這個市長這邊我們財政部對於相關的這個規範一定要有一個比較好的一個掌握是的是的好以上謝謝謝謝謝謝委員\n\n11:30.082 --> 11:30.384\n呃省委員發\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.309,"end":16.101,"text":"好 謝謝主席羅委員那我們請財政部的理事長好 請財政部"},{"start":22.317,"end":48.616,"text":"市長早委員好我們今天要討論的是有關公私部門合作營運模式在法制上爭議的這個探究和改善那我想因為公部門和私部門合作的模式和範圍都相當的多元及廣泛所以我應該就這個我們促進民間參與公共建設法也就是這個促參法的內容來做討論那由於我們政府在"},{"start":49.821,"end":71.714,"text":"財政和經營能力有所極限的情況之下所以當地方有重大的公共建設還有相關的議題的時候我們都希望能夠透過民間的力量來投資參與除了減輕政府財政上的負擔也期待能夠提升建設還有營運的效能來滿足社會"},{"start":76.457,"end":100.783,"text":"大眾對於公共建設的需求我們從這個畜産法第三條的內容來看法規上所適用有關這個公共建設的範圍包括了交通還有這個環境、農業、醫療、文教等等幾乎涵蓋民眾的日常生活那公共利益上影響的層面甚廣所以在管控的這個措施上我想還是必須要謹慎"},{"start":101.923,"end":106.228,"text":"所以第一個想要請教的是財政部在促參法第5條第二項當中"},{"start":108.427,"end":132.826,"text":"有關這個主辦機關的這個規定那該條文的內容規範的主辦的這個機關指的是辦理這個民間參與公共建設相關業務的機關在中央當然是我們目的事業主管機關在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市則由縣市政府作為主辦的機關對於中央和地方政府之間"},{"start":133.667,"end":153.187,"text":"我想就教的是地方政府在辦理促參案的時候都是自行辦理再報備給我們財政部就好了嗎還是說有什麼這個規模或類別的這個促參案需要由中央政府機關另外再來做審核"},{"start":153.968,"end":182.975,"text":"那這方面有沒有相關的這個規定是 謝謝委員的指教那有關那個初參法的規定財政部是擔任初參法的法令的主管機關是那各個其他的機關是依據他的任務跟需求那在中央包括各部會及所屬機關那在地方政府包括直轄市縣市政府這些都可以依據他們的公共建設的需求來辦理那並不需要說"},{"start":184.256,"end":199.993,"text":"將他的這個個案再報到財政部那除非有在執行的過程裡面有涉及出攤法法令的解釋或是辦理的程序上有需要財政部協助的那我們會給予提供協助大概的一個分工是這樣子"},{"start":201.495,"end":223.553,"text":"因為我們看到有一些促參的案件他履約的時間可能長達30年到50年當時間一拉長的情況之下產生的爭議有可能也會提升甚至也會影響到服務的品質對於這個案件履約的設定的期限也是由主辦的機關和民間機構自行決定的嗎"},{"start":227.303,"end":251.485,"text":"是的 一般來講我們初參法的這個採購可以分成政府來規劃完成之後來發包那另外一種是由民間自行提出規劃案之後向主辦機關來申請那不管是哪一種方式其實契約裡面都會按照我們初參法的規定每一年還有他們需要的時間來辦理所謂的履約的營運績效評定"},{"start":253.407,"end":273.7,"text":"那這個營運績效評定就會就民間機構他們在過去一年或是固定的時間內他到底他的履約的品質如何進行一些評定那當然如果有一些瑕疵或缺失的部分當然都可以要求來改善那如果表現良好的也會有一個叫優先訂約的機制"},{"start":275.522,"end":288.578,"text":"讓這個民間機構來繼續的來一定時間內再來履約所以他的機制是這樣的一個安排市長我想請教一下那個履約時間的訂定的認定標準他有沒有一個基本的條件"},{"start":290.04,"end":315.211,"text":"基本上並沒有一定的規範但是主要的就是透過財務試算因為出差案件希望民間來投資那民間的投資他會要求有一定程度的獲利所以在每個個案的情況下他會依據他的收支的一個情況去評估他的財務的可行性也就是說民間的投報率是不是有達到"},{"start":315.971,"end":337.397,"text":"那在這個投報率的這個要求底下呢才會去訂定他的履約的期限好那另外一方面就是履約時間過短可能會招商困難但履約的時間設定過長的話對公部門來說也會失去調整的一個彈性進而會這個對於服務的品質也難以把關"},{"start":338.177,"end":366.498,"text":"那這方面我們應該要如何來權衡?是的我想履約期限的長短在契約裡面都有一定的機制在運作譬如說如果太長的這個履約期的話那在一定時間內不管是主辦機關跟民間機構都可以來提出修約那修約的程序由任一方提出之後經過雙方協調或協商之後呢就可以來修正契約的一個內容那來改善這個履約的品質"},{"start":367.239,"end":380.267,"text":"好 那我想在討論的這個部分就是我們剛剛所詢問的這個幾個問題啦齁那我們也看到過去這個中國啦齁就是靠著一帶一路把各國的這個基礎建設進行滲透啦齁那"},{"start":382.928,"end":408.746,"text":"在我們促參法所規範的一個公共建設的範圍包括了這個自來水還有能源醫療甚至是這個包括還有這個鐵路還有港口的建設那其實和普羅大眾的這個民生日常都息息相關其他包括工業商業還有科技的這個設施甚至還有我們新加入的這個數位的建設那我"},{"start":409.406,"end":434.432,"text":"我想這些都是我們國家這個核心的技術倘若有這個促參案主辦的這個機關有意或無意的引進中資讓中國的這個勢力滲透到我們眾多的這個基礎建設核心的這個技術那我想請教就是現行的法規對於中資的部分我們是否有足夠的一個量能來管控"},{"start":435.938,"end":458.245,"text":"對於外國廠商要參與我們的促餐案它是被允許的但是如果是中資的部分因為它在投資的時候它的資金要進到台灣的時候會有一個資金的一個審議的一個機制是由我們經濟部這邊來進行審查所以中資要滲透進來在機制上是有一定的一個防止"},{"start":459.025,"end":459.045,"text":"市長"},{"start":485.18,"end":501.951,"text":"我們擔心的是假冒成外資的中資企業他有可能是中資投資到外國的廠商然後再投資到台灣的相關的建設工程那對於這方面我們有沒有一個比較好的管控的機制"},{"start":504.003,"end":527.25,"text":"這部分會比較複雜但是就實務上在執行因為外國的公司來投標之後他在新建期勢必要跟我們當地的廠商來合作所以並不是那麼容易就是說他可以全盤的來控制整個計畫或是他全盤的掌握所以這部分在實際運作上目前是沒有發現說有這樣的一個情況"},{"start":527.83,"end":556.975,"text":"好 我們也希望說這個部分我們持續去了解避免相關的這個疑慮在我們這個相關的這個促參的案件中會有這個中資的現象那另外在我們前置的修法當中也把數位建設納入第三條所規範的公共建設理那這讓我們比較好奇的是因為它反映現在許多公共建設並不限於硬體建設也符合現在政府發展的數位治理"},{"start":557.455,"end":586.246,"text":"更是符合各領域發展這個跨域創新所需的這個部分但是數位建設的範疇同樣是五花八門那可能涵蓋到群眾的這個部分無遠弗屆我想請教就是目前我們數位建設促參案件辦理的這個成效如何那案件的數量多不多以及在辦理的這個當中我們部會機關與民間機構的合作有沒有遭遇到什麼樣的困難"},{"start":586.949,"end":614.853,"text":"是的 謝謝委員那在我們修法的時候把四個公共建設類別把它新增進去那包括我們的綠電還有我們的數位建設那目前數位建設還沒有新的案例但是我們也發現就是說單純的數位建設要來作為公共建設投資不管是硬體或軟體大概都會去跟其他的公共建設類別有做一個結合所以我們現在也在等著"},{"start":615.293,"end":629.381,"text":"看數位部或是各地方政府的這些資訊中心他們有沒有這個需求會用這種方式來做這個招商那希望民間來投資目前是沒有一個個案來採用這種方式"},{"start":630.382,"end":654.081,"text":"那在數位建設當中不免也會提到的就是這個資安的問題那我也想說在我們數位這個服務中所要考量的因素當然包括大數據雲端數據的內容都要有妥善的一個防護那我想再就教就是對於數位促參案在資安上的保護措施我們是否需要再有更嚴謹的一個這個規範"},{"start":656.896,"end":682.958,"text":"目前完全都是按照行政院他要求的這個資安的一個管控的機制不管你是公部門或是私部門都會一體適用所以未來如果數位建設出產案他的這個防範的等級還是一樣的好 那就請我們這個市長這邊我們財政部對於相關的這個規範一定要有一個比較好的一個掌握是的 是的好 以上謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":690.082,"end":690.384,"text":"呃 省委員發"}]}}}}