{"id":154632,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154632","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1b498260953197f8803980a0f15e73222652beeb573fd6de7bbd165341284486f7d8ca10ff378d0f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:02:58 - 11:17:45","影片長度":"00:14:47","會議時間":"2024-07-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第36次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、內政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會、財政部率所屬相關單位列席就「盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探究與改善」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-07-10","start_time":"2024-07-10T11:02:58+08:00","end_time":"2024-07-10T11:17:45+08:00","duration":887,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第36次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":36,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-36"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":595,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時3分）謝謝。我們的召委好像請智強委員代理。"],["主席：對。"],["吳委員思瑤：那蠻可惜！我今天其實想跟召委做一些意見的交換。今天對於本屆司法委員會的很多會議也到了會期末，我要表達一些我的觀察，也就是做為立法委員都要自制，更何況我們是在司法及法制委員會，政治力都不應當介入個案、不應當影響司法，政治力不要干預司法。可能從今天上午司法及法制委員會的詢答我們看得出來，都針對某些個案來進行很多未審先判或者是政治操作，又或者帶有要用政治力來影響司法的意圖。這個會期以來，這不是第一次，我們看到在野黨的委員，不論是從楊文科案、高虹安案，到現在鄭文燦案，都不斷地利用立法委員的詢答時間來進行很多影響跟干預司法的作為，我深表遺憾！","第二個，今天專案報告，我大概當立委9年了，我第一次質詢不曉得要請誰上臺，我也不打算請任何一個部門上臺，因為我認為召委排的這個案子就像我們國會擴權法案的反質詢一樣，定義不清啊！今天的專案報告題目到底是要講什麼，沒有人可以搞清楚，沒有人可以清楚地知道召委排案真切的目的，但是若以剛剛林思銘書記長所垂詢的事項，我恍然大悟，喔！又是針對某一個地方政府的個案，也就是基隆市府東岸廣場的個案想要做一些政治上的操作。專案報告題目意義定義不明，假探討之名來行護航之實，是這樣嗎？我不樂見，也不希望。好，所以我今天在這裡表示我的立場，我也不會請任何一個官員上臺。","就今天的主題是「盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探討與改善」，我們讀過研究所、讀過博士班的人都知道任何一個論文的命題下面會有以什麼什麼個案為例，所以我實在不知道今天召委就這樣一個法制面，他想要探討跟釐清的爭議在哪裡，如果就法規面有非常清楚的促參法規可以來依循，所以這是不是一個政治命題，甚或是一個私設刑堂呢？我不知道，我也希望不是。","委員會的職權傻傻分不清嗎？立法院相關8個委員會的分工，司法及法制很清楚對於司法院、對於法務部、對於人事總處等有我們督導的職權，如果是要去關心促進民間參與公共建設，促參法規範的主管機關是財政部，這是促參法的明定，所以說如果是財政部主管的法律，那可以去財政委員會審議。所以今天在司法及法制委員會到底要審議、瞭解什麼執行的爭議，我也真的不瞭解，吳宗憲召委不在，我沒有辦法獲得他本人的釐清。","我試著去理解如果要講促參，促參90年大修之後，我們確實依新的促參法的法律授權，在全臺灣推動很多，不管中央政府或地方政府的促參案件。以91年促參法大修到現在113年的統計，全臺灣的促參案達到1,661件，所吸引帶動的民間投資額達到1兆38億元，這是我們努力的成果。所以我們企圖用這樣一個法律的賦權來增加政府的稅收、來增加民間企業投入，然後一起達到政府、民間、企業三贏的局面，這是促參法讓公共建設及公共服務可以升級，我這裡秀出來的是華山文創，還有宜蘭傳藝中心，都是我過去在教育及文化領域長期會去關心的促參相關案例。","財政部在促參法大修之後，同年91年金擘獎也上路了，司長在場，我沒有請您上臺，金擘獎嘛！金擘獎就是要肯定中央或地方政府促參的好的時機、成績，如果以2017年金擘獎的得獎名單來看，有臺大醫院美食街的促參案，它是優等；梨山賓館的營運也獲得優等；然後墾丁賓館的營運也獲得優等。而這三個金擘獎的得主都獲得續約的機會，因為它是執行良好而且得冠軍喔！它續約了，但是同一年一起得到金擘獎肯定的也有基隆市東岸立體停車場的這個促參案，當年2017年也獲得金擘獎的肯定，可是其他幾個案得獎、得肯定的都續約了，但是這樣一個得獎的基隆市東岸立體停車場，卻衍生了續約的爭議，產生了產權的爭議，也進入了執法的爭議，非常奇怪，明明是執行良好的促參廠商，沒有獲得續約合理在法律上應當有的法律地位，反而陷入了非常負面的續約爭議，現在還在對簿公堂。所以同一屆得獎的命運大不同，大家可以想看看，基隆市東岸立體停車場的促參案是獲得財政部金擘獎肯定的，今天被抹黑成什麼狀況？基隆市東岸停車場的ROT爭議，其實這是地方自治的權限，基隆市府是大有問題，當然包括它的執法爭議，強行帶警察侵入NET營運中的空間，所以謝國樑市長現在是涉強盜罪，正在偵辦中。續約的爭議更如同我剛剛說的，它明明是一個被財政部促參評鑑優等，它是佳等獎，結果呢？NET被評為優良評鑑，依原本的合約精神，原廠商可以優先續約，而且NET所提出的廠商簽約年限更長，但是權利金卻比NET低很多，我說的是現在謝國樑另外標出去的這個爭議個案，這是非常離譜的事，把好的廠商趕走，然後引入一個對於政府、對於公共利益條件更糟的廠商，這是前所未見，所以基隆市府是大有問題。","促參爭議的處理機制是什麼？剛剛前一位委員也有請教財政部的代表，其實促參的爭議處理機制有非常清楚的法律程序，促參法第四十八條之一，投資契約可以走協調會去協調履約爭議，協調不成再提付仲裁；或者是促參法第四十八條之一的第二項也有很清楚的調解過程，這都是現在法律有的機制，我不曉得剛剛在野黨的委員請財政部要積極介入，能介入什麼？要去替謝國樑解圍嗎？這也是地方事務啊，這也是地方自治啊，這也是私權之間的爭議啊，現在來向中央財政部討救兵，為了搶救謝國樑，我要再一次說司法及法制委員會以外力干預個案，請適可而止。","如果一個政策的正確會帶來地方大發展、大躍進，政策正確之下，基隆的東岸廣場可以從過去一個破敗的場域華麗大變身，Before and After，只要政策正確，政權移轉後，接棒的人也要好好地、用心地來做對的政策，把一個華麗大變身的東岸廣場，好不容易成為一個對於市民、企業、觀光客，包括基隆市府都是大加分的建設案，現在淪為執法的爭議、產權的糾紛、司法的訴訟，作為市長的人，這不是大有問題嗎？這是一個適任適格的市政府嗎？","既然有委員今天刻意排這個案是劍指個案，我也要藉這個機會來杜絕不實的抹黑，有人說基隆市東岸廣場這件事情，大日公司以5,050萬的權利金取得東岸的經營權來批判林右昌前市長，我要替他澄清，當年林右昌市府保底可以收到的權利金是5,050萬，但是謝國樑跟微風簽約，保底價只有2,655萬，誰替政府賺錢？誰讓政府吃虧？比一比就知道。國民黨在批評大日公司不可以轉租給NET，事實是什麼呢？在這個個案當中，NET就是大日的協力商，合約上清清楚楚，也是合約上規範可以邀請協力的廠商，何錯之有？不要這樣抹黑依法、依合約辦事的林右昌前市長。國民黨又在罵NET增加商業面積是增加獲益，跟大家澄清，增加的廣場面積是公共空間，24小時公民可以使用，如同為基隆市爭取了一個大公園，不是增加商場賺錢獲益的面積，而是增加24小時基隆市民都可以使用的公共空間，不要再抹黑，而這個公共空間，一樓可以連接到公車站的人行大通廊，二樓開放式廣場加上數個遮雨棚的穿廊連接，三樓還有天空跑道，是年輕人熱愛聚集的新場域。我要結束了，最後30秒，謝謝智強委員。增建的產權沒有登記嗎？我要澄清，只要謝國樑市長照著合約走，就都不會有這些爭議，但是謝國樑要以強盜的行為強行來接管，所以謝國樑現在是強盜案的被告，如果不要去搞這些奇奇怪怪的變更採購，涉及讓條件很不對等的廠商來標得這樣一個珍貴的促參成功案例，都不會有現在的產權爭議、都不會有現在的執法爭議。","所以今天我花一些時間，因為我真的是絞盡腦汁，很想知道召委排案到底是劍指哪一個個案，後來經過釐清、追查，原來是要講這個個案，我也就我的質詢本務、我的職責，努力地就這個個案去瞭解，也基於我的瞭解，我必須提出清楚的說明，這是我擔任立委9年以來，第一次我沒有請任何官員上臺。我希望未來召委排案，主題要明確、議題要清晰，但是我還是努力地做一個專業立委應該有的準備。謝謝智強委員多給我的時間，謝謝，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員。因為吳思瑤委員對於今天的主題有意見，我可能還是要說明一下，今天我們的主題是「盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探究與改善」，我看剛剛前面很多委員針對今天的主題詢答都沒有問題，官員也很認真地上來做詢答，所以以上做一個說明。","登記委員詢答完畢，現在有陳玉珍委員再請求詢答，在場如無異議，接著請陳玉珍委員進行詢答，時間5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-36","speakers":["吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","羅智強","陳俊宇","林思銘","吳思瑤","陳玉珍","葉元之","翁曉玲","沈發惠","傅崐萁","傅崐萁"],"page_start":143,"meetingDate":["2024-07-10"],"gazette_id":"1137301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第36次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、內政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會、財政部率所屬相關單位\n列席就「盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探究與改善」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"154632","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154632","tool":"pyannote","id":"154632-pyannote"},"job_id":"jp7YDotyw9LmGQU5","queued_at":"2024-07-10 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878.877, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 878.877, \"end\": 878.897, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,082 --> 00:00:07,662\n司法院秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:22,830 --> 00:00:26,314\n政治力都不應當介入個案不應當影響司法政治力不要干預司法\n\n3\n00:00:44,571 --> 00:00:59,211\n那可能從今天上午司法法制委員會的詢答我們看得出來那都針對某些個案來進行很多未審先判或者是政治操作\n\n4\n00:01:00,632 --> 00:01:28,974\n又或者帶有要用政治力來影響司法的意圖這個會期以來這不是第一次我們看到在野黨的委員不論是從楊文科案、高鴻安案到現在今天鄭文燦案都不斷的利用立法委員的尋答的時間來進行很多影響跟干預司法的作為我認為深表遺憾\n\n5\n00:01:30,117 --> 00:01:59,064\n那第二個今天專案報告我大概當立委9年了我第一次質詢我不曉得要請誰上台我也不打算請任何一個部門上台因為我認為張偉排的這個案子就像我們國會擴權法案的反質詢一樣定義不清啊今天的專案報告題目到底是要講什麼\n\n6\n00:02:00,748 --> 00:02:28,743\n沒有人可以搞清楚沒有人可以清楚的知道召委排案真切的目的但是若以剛剛林思明書記長所垂詢的事項我恍然大悟又是針對某一個地方政府的個案也就是基隆市府東岸廣場的個案想要做一些政治上的操作\n\n7\n00:02:30,064 --> 00:02:43,310\n專案報告題目意義定義不明．探討之實行．探討之明來行護航之實．是這樣嗎．我不樂見．也不希望\n\n8\n00:02:44,465 --> 00:03:09,141\n好所以我今天在這裡表示我的立場我也不會請任何一個官員上台好下一頁就今天的主題是盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探討與改善我們讀過研究所、讀過博士班的人都知道任何一個論文的命題下面會有以什麼什麼個案為例啊\n\n9\n00:03:10,307 --> 00:03:33,118\n所以我實在不知道今天交委就這樣一個法制面他想要探討跟釐清的爭議在哪裡如果就法規面有非常清楚的促參的法規可以來依循所以這是不是一個政治命題社會是一個私設形堂呢我不知道我也希望不是好下一頁委員會的職權傻傻分不清嗎\n\n10\n00:03:38,476 --> 00:04:00,969\n立法院的相關的八個委員會的分工司法法制很清楚我們對於司法院對於法務部對於人事總處有我們督導的職權如果是要去關心促進民間參與公共建設促參法的規範的主體的機關是財政部這是促參法的明定\n\n11\n00:04:02,102 --> 00:04:28,880\n所以說如果是財政部主管的法律那可以去財政委員會來審議所以今天在司法法制委員會到底要審議了解什麼執行的爭議我也真的不了解那吳宗憲召委不在齁我沒有辦法獲得他本人的釐清好下一頁那我試著去理解如果要講促餐\n\n12\n00:04:30,051 --> 00:04:48,455\n那促參這個91年就90年大修之後我們確實以新的促參法的法律授權那在全台灣推動很多不管中央政府或地方政府的促參案件以91年促參法大修到現在113年統計全台灣的促參案達到1661件\n\n13\n00:04:54,056 --> 00:05:11,714\n所吸引帶動的民間投資額達到一兆38億元這是我們努力的成果所以我們企圖的用這樣一個法律的付權來增加政府的稅收來增加民間企業來投入\n\n14\n00:05:12,915 --> 00:05:37,451\n然後一起達到政府民間企業三贏的局面這是促餐法讓公共建設以及公共服務可以升級我這裡秀出來的是華山文創還有宜蘭傳譯中心都是我過去在教育文化領域長期會去關心的促餐的相關的案例下頁\n\n15\n00:05:39,612 --> 00:05:46,318\n財政部在促餐法大修之後同年91年也上錄了經過獎司長在場我沒有請您上台經過獎嘛經過獎就是要肯定中央或地方政府促餐的好的時機成績那如果以2017年經過獎的得獎名單我們來看喔\n\n16\n00:06:03,954 --> 00:06:14,619\n有臺大醫院的美食街的促餐案它是優等以梨山賓館的營運也獲得優等然後墾丁賓館的營運也獲得優等而這三個得獎的經過獎的得主都獲得續約的機會因為它是執行良好而且中間的它續約了\n\n17\n00:06:30,745 --> 00:06:39,494\n但是呢同一年一起得到金獲獎肯定的也有基隆市東岸立體停車場的這個促餐案當年2017年基隆東岸立體停車場也獲得金獲獎的肯定可是\n\n18\n00:06:50,731 --> 00:07:02,839\n其他幾個案得獎得肯定的都續約了但是這樣一個得獎的基隆市東岸立體停車場卻衍生了續約的爭議產生了產權的爭議也進入了執法的爭議非常奇怪明明是執行良好的住餐的廠商沒有獲得續約的\n\n19\n00:07:18,399 --> 00:07:18,619\n下一頁\n\n20\n00:07:44,790 --> 00:08:08,018\n基隆市東岸停車場的ROT的爭議是ROT的爭議其實這是地方自治的權限啦基隆市府是大有問題當然包括它的執法爭議強行帶警察去侵入這個NET在營運中的空間所以謝國良市長現在是涉強盜罪在偵辦中\n\n21\n00:08:11,072 --> 00:08:14,135\n那續約的爭議更如同我剛剛說的它明明是一個被財政部促參評鑑優等它是加等獎結果呢Net被評為優良評鑑依原本的合約精神約廠商可以優先的續約而且Net所提出的廠商簽約的年限更長但是權利金卻比Net低很多我說的是現在謝國良另外\n\n22\n00:08:37,935 --> 00:08:38,736\n剛才前一位委員也有請教我們財政部的代表\n\n23\n00:09:07,512 --> 00:09:09,895\n其實促參的爭議處理的機制有非常清楚的法律的程式嘛我們促參48條之一\n\n24\n00:09:19,315 --> 00:09:42,091\n你的投資契約你可以走協調會去協調履約爭議嘛協調不成再提付仲裁嘛或者是蘇三四十八條之一的第二項也有很清楚的調解的過程這都是現在法律有的機制我不曉得剛剛在野黨的委員請財政部要積極介入你能介入什麼\n\n25\n00:09:43,345 --> 00:09:43,525\n下一頁\n\n26\n00:10:09,318 --> 00:10:29,661\n如果一個政策的正確．會帶來地方大發展．大躍進政策正確之下．基隆的東岸廣場．可以從過去的一個破敗的場域．華麗大變身Beforeandafter只要政策正確．\n\n27\n00:10:31,428 --> 00:10:41,641\n而政權移轉接棒的人也要好好的去用心的來做對的政策\n\n28\n00:10:42,892 --> 00:10:43,593\n現在淪為執法的爭議、產權的糾紛、司法的訴訟\n\n29\n00:11:03,735 --> 00:11:04,035\n最後一頁有人說\n\n30\n00:11:26,058 --> 00:11:36,399\n金融市東岸廣場這件事情大日公司以5050萬的權利金取得東岸的經營權來批判林右昌前市長\n\n31\n00:11:37,765 --> 00:11:46,350\n我要替他澄清當年零幼昌市場保底可以收到的權利金是5050萬但是謝國良跟微風簽約保底價只有2655萬誰替政府賺錢誰讓政府吃虧比一比就知道\n\n32\n00:11:59,366 --> 00:12:24,347\n國民黨在批評大日公司不可以轉租給Net事實是什麼呢在這個個案當中Net就是大日的協力商合約上清清楚楚也是合約上規範可以邀請協力的廠商合作之友不要這樣抹黑依法依合約辦事的林佑昌前市長\n\n33\n00:12:26,244 --> 00:12:54,407\n國民黨又在罵內特增加商業面積是增加獲益喔跟大家澄清增加的廣場的面積是公共空間24小時公民可以使用如同為基隆市爭取了一個大公園不是增加商場賺錢獲益的面積而是增加24小時基隆市民都可以使用的公共空間\n\n34\n00:12:56,147 --> 00:12:56,928\n尊健的產權沒有登記嗎?\n\n35\n00:13:21,721 --> 00:13:42,942\n我要澄清只要謝國良市長照著合約走就都不會有這些爭議但是謝國良要以強盜的行為強行來接管所以呢謝國良現在是強盜案的被告如果不要去搞這些奇奇怪怪的變更採購\n\n36\n00:13:45,629 --> 00:14:12,058\n涉及讓條件很不對等的廠商來標得這樣一個珍貴的促參成功的案例都不會有現在的產權爭議都不會有現在的執法爭議所以今天我花一些時間因為我真的是絞盡腦汁很想知道昭緯排案到底是見質哪一個個案後來經過釐清追查\n\n37\n00:14:13,089 --> 00:14:14,249\n我希望未來的朝委排案主題要明確議題要清晰但是\n\n38\n00:14:38,797 --> 00:14:38,897\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7082\t7662\t司法院秘書長\n22830\t26314\t政治力都不應當介入個案不應當影響司法政治力不要干預司法\n44571\t59211\t那可能從今天上午司法法制委員會的詢答我們看得出來那都針對某些個案來進行很多未審先判或者是政治操作\n60632\t88974\t又或者帶有要用政治力來影響司法的意圖這個會期以來這不是第一次我們看到在野黨的委員不論是從楊文科案、高鴻安案到現在今天鄭文燦案都不斷的利用立法委員的尋答的時間來進行很多影響跟干預司法的作為我認為深表遺憾\n90117\t119064\t那第二個今天專案報告我大概當立委9年了我第一次質詢我不曉得要請誰上台我也不打算請任何一個部門上台因為我認為張偉排的這個案子就像我們國會擴權法案的反質詢一樣定義不清啊今天的專案報告題目到底是要講什麼\n120748\t148743\t沒有人可以搞清楚沒有人可以清楚的知道召委排案真切的目的但是若以剛剛林思明書記長所垂詢的事項我恍然大悟又是針對某一個地方政府的個案也就是基隆市府東岸廣場的個案想要做一些政治上的操作\n150064\t163310\t專案報告題目意義定義不明．探討之實行．探討之明來行護航之實．是這樣嗎．我不樂見．也不希望\n164465\t189141\t好 所以我今天在這裡表示我的立場我也不會請任何一個官員上台好 下一頁就今天的主題是盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探討與改善我們讀過研究所、讀過博士班的人都知道任何一個論文的命題下面會有以什麼什麼個案為例啊\n190307\t213118\t所以我實在不知道今天交委就這樣一個法制面他想要探討跟釐清的爭議在哪裡如果就法規面有非常清楚的促參的法規可以來依循所以這是不是一個政治命題社會是一個私設形堂呢我不知道我也希望不是好下一頁委員會的職權傻傻分不清嗎\n218476\t240969\t立法院的相關的八個委員會的分工司法法制很清楚我們對於司法院對於法務部對於人事總處有我們督導的職權如果是要去關心促進民間參與公共建設促參法的規範的主體的機關是財政部這是促參法的明定\n242102\t268880\t所以說如果是財政部主管的法律那可以去財政委員會來審議所以今天在司法法制委員會到底要審議了解什麼執行的爭議我也真的不了解那吳宗憲召委不在齁我沒有辦法獲得他本人的釐清好 下一頁那我試著去理解如果要講促餐\n270051\t288455\t那促參這個91年就90年大修之後我們確實以新的促參法的法律授權那在全台灣推動很多不管中央政府或地方政府的促參案件以91年促參法大修到現在113年統計全台灣的促參案達到1661件\n294056\t311714\t所吸引帶動的民間投資額達到一兆38億元這是我們努力的成果所以我們企圖的用這樣一個法律的付權來增加政府的稅收來增加民間企業來投入\n312915\t337451\t然後一起達到政府民間企業三贏的局面這是促餐法讓公共建設以及公共服務可以升級我這裡秀出來的是華山文創還有宜蘭傳譯中心都是我過去在教育文化領域長期會去關心的促餐的相關的案例下頁\n339612\t346318\t財政部在促餐法大修之後同年91年也上錄了經過獎司長在場我沒有請您上台經過獎嘛經過獎就是要肯定中央或地方政府促餐的好的時機成績那如果以2017年經過獎的得獎名單我們來看喔\n363954\t374619\t有臺大醫院的美食街的促餐案它是優等以梨山賓館的營運也獲得優等然後墾丁賓館的營運也獲得優等而這三個得獎的經過獎的得主都獲得續約的機會因為它是執行良好而且中間的它續約了\n390745\t399494\t但是呢同一年一起得到金獲獎肯定的也有基隆市東岸立體停車場的這個促餐案當年2017年基隆東岸立體停車場也獲得金獲獎的肯定可是\n410731\t422839\t其他幾個案得獎得肯定的都續約了但是這樣一個得獎的基隆市東岸立體停車場卻衍生了續約的爭議產生了產權的爭議也進入了執法的爭議非常奇怪明明是執行良好的住餐的廠商沒有獲得續約的\n438399\t438619\t下一頁\n464790\t488018\t基隆市東岸停車場的ROT的爭議是ROT的爭議其實這是地方自治的權限啦基隆市府是大有問題當然包括它的執法爭議強行帶警察去侵入這個NET在營運中的空間所以謝國良市長現在是涉強盜罪在偵辦中\n491072\t494135\t那續約的爭議更如同我剛剛說的它明明是一個被財政部促參評鑑優等它是加等獎結果呢Net被評為優良評鑑依原本的合約精神約廠商可以優先的續約而且Net所提出的廠商簽約的年限更長但是權利金卻比Net低很多我說的是現在謝國良另外\n517935\t518736\t剛才前一位委員也有請教我們財政部的代表\n547512\t549895\t其實促參的爭議處理的機制有非常清楚的法律的程式嘛我們促參48條之一\n559315\t582091\t你的投資契約你可以走協調會去協調履約爭議嘛協調不成再提付仲裁嘛或者是蘇三四十八條之一的第二項也有很清楚的調解的過程這都是現在法律有的機制我不曉得剛剛在野黨的委員請財政部要積極介入你能介入什麼\n583345\t583525\t下一頁\n609318\t629661\t如果一個政策的正確．會帶來地方大發展．大躍進政策正確之下．基隆的東岸廣場．可以從過去的一個破敗的場域．華麗大變身Before and after只要政策正確．\n631428\t641641\t而政權移轉接棒的人也要好好的去用心的來做對的政策\n642892\t643593\t現在淪為執法的爭議、產權的糾紛、司法的訴訟\n663735\t664035\t最後一頁有人說\n686058\t696399\t金融市東岸廣場這件事情大日公司以5050萬的權利金取得東岸的經營權來批判林右昌前市長\n697765\t706350\t我要替他澄清當年零幼昌市場保底可以收到的權利金是5050萬但是謝國良跟微風簽約保底價只有2655萬誰替政府賺錢誰讓政府吃虧比一比就知道\n719366\t744347\t國民黨在批評大日公司不可以轉租給Net事實是什麼呢在這個個案當中Net就是大日的協力商合約上清清楚楚也是合約上規範可以邀請協力的廠商合作之友不要這樣抹黑依法依合約辦事的林佑昌前市長\n746244\t774407\t國民黨又在罵內特增加商業面積是增加獲益喔跟大家澄清增加的廣場的面積是公共空間24小時公民可以使用如同為基隆市爭取了一個大公園不是增加商場賺錢獲益的面積而是增加24小時基隆市民都可以使用的公共空間\n776147\t776928\t尊健的產權沒有登記嗎?\n801721\t822942\t我要澄清只要謝國良市長照著合約走就都不會有這些爭議但是謝國良要以強盜的行為強行來接管所以呢謝國良現在是強盜案的被告如果不要去搞這些奇奇怪怪的變更採購\n825629\t852058\t涉及讓條件很不對等的廠商來標得這樣一個珍貴的促參成功的案例都不會有現在的產權爭議都不會有現在的執法爭議所以今天我花一些時間因為我真的是絞盡腦汁很想知道昭緯排案到底是見質哪一個個案後來經過釐清追查\n853089\t854249\t我希望未來的朝委排案主題要明確議題要清晰但是\n878797\t878897\t主席\n","txt":"司法院秘書長\n政治力都不應當介入個案不應當影響司法政治力不要干預司法\n那可能從今天上午司法法制委員會的詢答我們看得出來那都針對某些個案來進行很多未審先判或者是政治操作\n又或者帶有要用政治力來影響司法的意圖這個會期以來這不是第一次我們看到在野黨的委員不論是從楊文科案、高鴻安案到現在今天鄭文燦案都不斷的利用立法委員的尋答的時間來進行很多影響跟干預司法的作為我認為深表遺憾\n那第二個今天專案報告我大概當立委9年了我第一次質詢我不曉得要請誰上台我也不打算請任何一個部門上台因為我認為張偉排的這個案子就像我們國會擴權法案的反質詢一樣定義不清啊今天的專案報告題目到底是要講什麼\n沒有人可以搞清楚沒有人可以清楚的知道召委排案真切的目的但是若以剛剛林思明書記長所垂詢的事項我恍然大悟又是針對某一個地方政府的個案也就是基隆市府東岸廣場的個案想要做一些政治上的操作\n專案報告題目意義定義不明．探討之實行．探討之明來行護航之實．是這樣嗎．我不樂見．也不希望\n好 所以我今天在這裡表示我的立場我也不會請任何一個官員上台好 下一頁就今天的主題是盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探討與改善我們讀過研究所、讀過博士班的人都知道任何一個論文的命題下面會有以什麼什麼個案為例啊\n所以我實在不知道今天交委就這樣一個法制面他想要探討跟釐清的爭議在哪裡如果就法規面有非常清楚的促參的法規可以來依循所以這是不是一個政治命題社會是一個私設形堂呢我不知道我也希望不是好下一頁委員會的職權傻傻分不清嗎\n立法院的相關的八個委員會的分工司法法制很清楚我們對於司法院對於法務部對於人事總處有我們督導的職權如果是要去關心促進民間參與公共建設促參法的規範的主體的機關是財政部這是促參法的明定\n所以說如果是財政部主管的法律那可以去財政委員會來審議所以今天在司法法制委員會到底要審議了解什麼執行的爭議我也真的不了解那吳宗憲召委不在齁我沒有辦法獲得他本人的釐清好 下一頁那我試著去理解如果要講促餐\n那促參這個91年就90年大修之後我們確實以新的促參法的法律授權那在全台灣推動很多不管中央政府或地方政府的促參案件以91年促參法大修到現在113年統計全台灣的促參案達到1661件\n所吸引帶動的民間投資額達到一兆38億元這是我們努力的成果所以我們企圖的用這樣一個法律的付權來增加政府的稅收來增加民間企業來投入\n然後一起達到政府民間企業三贏的局面這是促餐法讓公共建設以及公共服務可以升級我這裡秀出來的是華山文創還有宜蘭傳譯中心都是我過去在教育文化領域長期會去關心的促餐的相關的案例下頁\n財政部在促餐法大修之後同年91年也上錄了經過獎司長在場我沒有請您上台經過獎嘛經過獎就是要肯定中央或地方政府促餐的好的時機成績那如果以2017年經過獎的得獎名單我們來看喔\n有臺大醫院的美食街的促餐案它是優等以梨山賓館的營運也獲得優等然後墾丁賓館的營運也獲得優等而這三個得獎的經過獎的得主都獲得續約的機會因為它是執行良好而且中間的它續約了\n但是呢同一年一起得到金獲獎肯定的也有基隆市東岸立體停車場的這個促餐案當年2017年基隆東岸立體停車場也獲得金獲獎的肯定可是\n其他幾個案得獎得肯定的都續約了但是這樣一個得獎的基隆市東岸立體停車場卻衍生了續約的爭議產生了產權的爭議也進入了執法的爭議非常奇怪明明是執行良好的住餐的廠商沒有獲得續約的\n下一頁\n基隆市東岸停車場的ROT的爭議是ROT的爭議其實這是地方自治的權限啦基隆市府是大有問題當然包括它的執法爭議強行帶警察去侵入這個NET在營運中的空間所以謝國良市長現在是涉強盜罪在偵辦中\n那續約的爭議更如同我剛剛說的它明明是一個被財政部促參評鑑優等它是加等獎結果呢Net被評為優良評鑑依原本的合約精神約廠商可以優先的續約而且Net所提出的廠商簽約的年限更長但是權利金卻比Net低很多我說的是現在謝國良另外\n剛才前一位委員也有請教我們財政部的代表\n其實促參的爭議處理的機制有非常清楚的法律的程式嘛我們促參48條之一\n你的投資契約你可以走協調會去協調履約爭議嘛協調不成再提付仲裁嘛或者是蘇三四十八條之一的第二項也有很清楚的調解的過程這都是現在法律有的機制我不曉得剛剛在野黨的委員請財政部要積極介入你能介入什麼\n下一頁\n如果一個政策的正確．會帶來地方大發展．大躍進政策正確之下．基隆的東岸廣場．可以從過去的一個破敗的場域．華麗大變身Before and after只要政策正確．\n而政權移轉接棒的人也要好好的去用心的來做對的政策\n現在淪為執法的爭議、產權的糾紛、司法的訴訟\n最後一頁有人說\n金融市東岸廣場這件事情大日公司以5050萬的權利金取得東岸的經營權來批判林右昌前市長\n我要替他澄清當年零幼昌市場保底可以收到的權利金是5050萬但是謝國良跟微風簽約保底價只有2655萬誰替政府賺錢誰讓政府吃虧比一比就知道\n國民黨在批評大日公司不可以轉租給Net事實是什麼呢在這個個案當中Net就是大日的協力商合約上清清楚楚也是合約上規範可以邀請協力的廠商合作之友不要這樣抹黑依法依合約辦事的林佑昌前市長\n國民黨又在罵內特增加商業面積是增加獲益喔跟大家澄清增加的廣場的面積是公共空間24小時公民可以使用如同為基隆市爭取了一個大公園不是增加商場賺錢獲益的面積而是增加24小時基隆市民都可以使用的公共空間\n尊健的產權沒有登記嗎?\n我要澄清只要謝國良市長照著合約走就都不會有這些爭議但是謝國良要以強盜的行為強行來接管所以呢謝國良現在是強盜案的被告如果不要去搞這些奇奇怪怪的變更採購\n涉及讓條件很不對等的廠商來標得這樣一個珍貴的促參成功的案例都不會有現在的產權爭議都不會有現在的執法爭議所以今天我花一些時間因為我真的是絞盡腦汁很想知道昭緯排案到底是見質哪一個個案後來經過釐清追查\n我希望未來的朝委排案主題要明確議題要清晰但是\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.082 --> 00:07.662\n司法院秘書長\n\n00:22.830 --> 00:26.314\n政治力都不應當介入個案不應當影響司法政治力不要干預司法\n\n00:44.571 --> 00:59.211\n那可能從今天上午司法法制委員會的詢答我們看得出來那都針對某些個案來進行很多未審先判或者是政治操作\n\n01:00.632 --> 01:28.974\n又或者帶有要用政治力來影響司法的意圖這個會期以來這不是第一次我們看到在野黨的委員不論是從楊文科案、高鴻安案到現在今天鄭文燦案都不斷的利用立法委員的尋答的時間來進行很多影響跟干預司法的作為我認為深表遺憾\n\n01:30.117 --> 01:59.064\n那第二個今天專案報告我大概當立委9年了我第一次質詢我不曉得要請誰上台我也不打算請任何一個部門上台因為我認為張偉排的這個案子就像我們國會擴權法案的反質詢一樣定義不清啊今天的專案報告題目到底是要講什麼\n\n02:00.748 --> 02:28.743\n沒有人可以搞清楚沒有人可以清楚的知道召委排案真切的目的但是若以剛剛林思明書記長所垂詢的事項我恍然大悟又是針對某一個地方政府的個案也就是基隆市府東岸廣場的個案想要做一些政治上的操作\n\n02:30.064 --> 02:43.310\n專案報告題目意義定義不明．探討之實行．探討之明來行護航之實．是這樣嗎．我不樂見．也不希望\n\n02:44.465 --> 03:09.141\n好所以我今天在這裡表示我的立場我也不會請任何一個官員上台好下一頁就今天的主題是盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探討與改善我們讀過研究所、讀過博士班的人都知道任何一個論文的命題下面會有以什麼什麼個案為例啊\n\n03:10.307 --> 03:33.118\n所以我實在不知道今天交委就這樣一個法制面他想要探討跟釐清的爭議在哪裡如果就法規面有非常清楚的促參的法規可以來依循所以這是不是一個政治命題社會是一個私設形堂呢我不知道我也希望不是好下一頁委員會的職權傻傻分不清嗎\n\n03:38.476 --> 04:00.969\n立法院的相關的八個委員會的分工司法法制很清楚我們對於司法院對於法務部對於人事總處有我們督導的職權如果是要去關心促進民間參與公共建設促參法的規範的主體的機關是財政部這是促參法的明定\n\n04:02.102 --> 04:28.880\n所以說如果是財政部主管的法律那可以去財政委員會來審議所以今天在司法法制委員會到底要審議了解什麼執行的爭議我也真的不了解那吳宗憲召委不在齁我沒有辦法獲得他本人的釐清好下一頁那我試著去理解如果要講促餐\n\n04:30.051 --> 04:48.455\n那促參這個91年就90年大修之後我們確實以新的促參法的法律授權那在全台灣推動很多不管中央政府或地方政府的促參案件以91年促參法大修到現在113年統計全台灣的促參案達到1661件\n\n04:54.056 --> 05:11.714\n所吸引帶動的民間投資額達到一兆38億元這是我們努力的成果所以我們企圖的用這樣一個法律的付權來增加政府的稅收來增加民間企業來投入\n\n05:12.915 --> 05:37.451\n然後一起達到政府民間企業三贏的局面這是促餐法讓公共建設以及公共服務可以升級我這裡秀出來的是華山文創還有宜蘭傳譯中心都是我過去在教育文化領域長期會去關心的促餐的相關的案例下頁\n\n05:39.612 --> 05:46.318\n財政部在促餐法大修之後同年91年也上錄了經過獎司長在場我沒有請您上台經過獎嘛經過獎就是要肯定中央或地方政府促餐的好的時機成績那如果以2017年經過獎的得獎名單我們來看喔\n\n06:03.954 --> 06:14.619\n有臺大醫院的美食街的促餐案它是優等以梨山賓館的營運也獲得優等然後墾丁賓館的營運也獲得優等而這三個得獎的經過獎的得主都獲得續約的機會因為它是執行良好而且中間的它續約了\n\n06:30.745 --> 06:39.494\n但是呢同一年一起得到金獲獎肯定的也有基隆市東岸立體停車場的這個促餐案當年2017年基隆東岸立體停車場也獲得金獲獎的肯定可是\n\n06:50.731 --> 07:02.839\n其他幾個案得獎得肯定的都續約了但是這樣一個得獎的基隆市東岸立體停車場卻衍生了續約的爭議產生了產權的爭議也進入了執法的爭議非常奇怪明明是執行良好的住餐的廠商沒有獲得續約的\n\n07:18.399 --> 07:18.619\n下一頁\n\n07:44.790 --> 08:08.018\n基隆市東岸停車場的ROT的爭議是ROT的爭議其實這是地方自治的權限啦基隆市府是大有問題當然包括它的執法爭議強行帶警察去侵入這個NET在營運中的空間所以謝國良市長現在是涉強盜罪在偵辦中\n\n08:11.072 --> 08:14.135\n那續約的爭議更如同我剛剛說的它明明是一個被財政部促參評鑑優等它是加等獎結果呢Net被評為優良評鑑依原本的合約精神約廠商可以優先的續約而且Net所提出的廠商簽約的年限更長但是權利金卻比Net低很多我說的是現在謝國良另外\n\n08:37.935 --> 08:38.736\n剛才前一位委員也有請教我們財政部的代表\n\n09:07.512 --> 09:09.895\n其實促參的爭議處理的機制有非常清楚的法律的程式嘛我們促參48條之一\n\n09:19.315 --> 09:42.091\n你的投資契約你可以走協調會去協調履約爭議嘛協調不成再提付仲裁嘛或者是蘇三四十八條之一的第二項也有很清楚的調解的過程這都是現在法律有的機制我不曉得剛剛在野黨的委員請財政部要積極介入你能介入什麼\n\n09:43.345 --> 09:43.525\n下一頁\n\n10:09.318 --> 10:29.661\n如果一個政策的正確．會帶來地方大發展．大躍進政策正確之下．基隆的東岸廣場．可以從過去的一個破敗的場域．華麗大變身Beforeandafter只要政策正確．\n\n10:31.428 --> 10:41.641\n而政權移轉接棒的人也要好好的去用心的來做對的政策\n\n10:42.892 --> 10:43.593\n現在淪為執法的爭議、產權的糾紛、司法的訴訟\n\n11:03.735 --> 11:04.035\n最後一頁有人說\n\n11:26.058 --> 11:36.399\n金融市東岸廣場這件事情大日公司以5050萬的權利金取得東岸的經營權來批判林右昌前市長\n\n11:37.765 --> 11:46.350\n我要替他澄清當年零幼昌市場保底可以收到的權利金是5050萬但是謝國良跟微風簽約保底價只有2655萬誰替政府賺錢誰讓政府吃虧比一比就知道\n\n11:59.366 --> 12:24.347\n國民黨在批評大日公司不可以轉租給Net事實是什麼呢在這個個案當中Net就是大日的協力商合約上清清楚楚也是合約上規範可以邀請協力的廠商合作之友不要這樣抹黑依法依合約辦事的林佑昌前市長\n\n12:26.244 --> 12:54.407\n國民黨又在罵內特增加商業面積是增加獲益喔跟大家澄清增加的廣場的面積是公共空間24小時公民可以使用如同為基隆市爭取了一個大公園不是增加商場賺錢獲益的面積而是增加24小時基隆市民都可以使用的公共空間\n\n12:56.147 --> 12:56.928\n尊健的產權沒有登記嗎?\n\n13:21.721 --> 13:42.942\n我要澄清只要謝國良市長照著合約走就都不會有這些爭議但是謝國良要以強盜的行為強行來接管所以呢謝國良現在是強盜案的被告如果不要去搞這些奇奇怪怪的變更採購\n\n13:45.629 --> 14:12.058\n涉及讓條件很不對等的廠商來標得這樣一個珍貴的促參成功的案例都不會有現在的產權爭議都不會有現在的執法爭議所以今天我花一些時間因為我真的是絞盡腦汁很想知道昭緯排案到底是見質哪一個個案後來經過釐清追查\n\n14:13.089 --> 14:14.249\n我希望未來的朝委排案主題要明確議題要清晰但是\n\n14:38.797 --> 14:38.897\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.082,"end":7.662,"text":"司法院秘書長"},{"start":22.83,"end":26.314,"text":"政治力都不應當介入個案不應當影響司法政治力不要干預司法"},{"start":44.571,"end":59.211,"text":"那可能從今天上午司法法制委員會的詢答我們看得出來那都針對某些個案來進行很多未審先判或者是政治操作"},{"start":60.632,"end":88.974,"text":"又或者帶有要用政治力來影響司法的意圖這個會期以來這不是第一次我們看到在野黨的委員不論是從楊文科案、高鴻安案到現在今天鄭文燦案都不斷的利用立法委員的尋答的時間來進行很多影響跟干預司法的作為我認為深表遺憾"},{"start":90.117,"end":119.064,"text":"那第二個今天專案報告我大概當立委9年了我第一次質詢我不曉得要請誰上台我也不打算請任何一個部門上台因為我認為張偉排的這個案子就像我們國會擴權法案的反質詢一樣定義不清啊今天的專案報告題目到底是要講什麼"},{"start":120.748,"end":148.743,"text":"沒有人可以搞清楚沒有人可以清楚的知道召委排案真切的目的但是若以剛剛林思明書記長所垂詢的事項我恍然大悟又是針對某一個地方政府的個案也就是基隆市府東岸廣場的個案想要做一些政治上的操作"},{"start":150.064,"end":163.31,"text":"專案報告題目意義定義不明．探討之實行．探討之明來行護航之實．是這樣嗎．我不樂見．也不希望"},{"start":164.465,"end":189.141,"text":"好 所以我今天在這裡表示我的立場我也不會請任何一個官員上台好 下一頁就今天的主題是盤點公私部門合作營運模式法制爭議之探討與改善我們讀過研究所、讀過博士班的人都知道任何一個論文的命題下面會有以什麼什麼個案為例啊"},{"start":190.307,"end":213.118,"text":"所以我實在不知道今天交委就這樣一個法制面他想要探討跟釐清的爭議在哪裡如果就法規面有非常清楚的促參的法規可以來依循所以這是不是一個政治命題社會是一個私設形堂呢我不知道我也希望不是好下一頁委員會的職權傻傻分不清嗎"},{"start":218.476,"end":240.969,"text":"立法院的相關的八個委員會的分工司法法制很清楚我們對於司法院對於法務部對於人事總處有我們督導的職權如果是要去關心促進民間參與公共建設促參法的規範的主體的機關是財政部這是促參法的明定"},{"start":242.102,"end":268.88,"text":"所以說如果是財政部主管的法律那可以去財政委員會來審議所以今天在司法法制委員會到底要審議了解什麼執行的爭議我也真的不了解那吳宗憲召委不在齁我沒有辦法獲得他本人的釐清好 下一頁那我試著去理解如果要講促餐"},{"start":270.051,"end":288.455,"text":"那促參這個91年就90年大修之後我們確實以新的促參法的法律授權那在全台灣推動很多不管中央政府或地方政府的促參案件以91年促參法大修到現在113年統計全台灣的促參案達到1661件"},{"start":294.056,"end":311.714,"text":"所吸引帶動的民間投資額達到一兆38億元這是我們努力的成果所以我們企圖的用這樣一個法律的付權來增加政府的稅收來增加民間企業來投入"},{"start":312.915,"end":337.451,"text":"然後一起達到政府民間企業三贏的局面這是促餐法讓公共建設以及公共服務可以升級我這裡秀出來的是華山文創還有宜蘭傳譯中心都是我過去在教育文化領域長期會去關心的促餐的相關的案例下頁"},{"start":339.612,"end":346.318,"text":"財政部在促餐法大修之後同年91年也上錄了經過獎司長在場我沒有請您上台經過獎嘛經過獎就是要肯定中央或地方政府促餐的好的時機成績那如果以2017年經過獎的得獎名單我們來看喔"},{"start":363.954,"end":374.619,"text":"有臺大醫院的美食街的促餐案它是優等以梨山賓館的營運也獲得優等然後墾丁賓館的營運也獲得優等而這三個得獎的經過獎的得主都獲得續約的機會因為它是執行良好而且中間的它續約了"},{"start":390.745,"end":399.494,"text":"但是呢同一年一起得到金獲獎肯定的也有基隆市東岸立體停車場的這個促餐案當年2017年基隆東岸立體停車場也獲得金獲獎的肯定可是"},{"start":410.731,"end":422.839,"text":"其他幾個案得獎得肯定的都續約了但是這樣一個得獎的基隆市東岸立體停車場卻衍生了續約的爭議產生了產權的爭議也進入了執法的爭議非常奇怪明明是執行良好的住餐的廠商沒有獲得續約的"},{"start":438.399,"end":438.619,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":464.79,"end":488.018,"text":"基隆市東岸停車場的ROT的爭議是ROT的爭議其實這是地方自治的權限啦基隆市府是大有問題當然包括它的執法爭議強行帶警察去侵入這個NET在營運中的空間所以謝國良市長現在是涉強盜罪在偵辦中"},{"start":491.072,"end":494.135,"text":"那續約的爭議更如同我剛剛說的它明明是一個被財政部促參評鑑優等它是加等獎結果呢Net被評為優良評鑑依原本的合約精神約廠商可以優先的續約而且Net所提出的廠商簽約的年限更長但是權利金卻比Net低很多我說的是現在謝國良另外"},{"start":517.935,"end":518.736,"text":"剛才前一位委員也有請教我們財政部的代表"},{"start":547.512,"end":549.895,"text":"其實促參的爭議處理的機制有非常清楚的法律的程式嘛我們促參48條之一"},{"start":559.315,"end":582.091,"text":"你的投資契約你可以走協調會去協調履約爭議嘛協調不成再提付仲裁嘛或者是蘇三四十八條之一的第二項也有很清楚的調解的過程這都是現在法律有的機制我不曉得剛剛在野黨的委員請財政部要積極介入你能介入什麼"},{"start":583.345,"end":583.525,"text":"下一頁"},{"start":609.318,"end":629.661,"text":"如果一個政策的正確．會帶來地方大發展．大躍進政策正確之下．基隆的東岸廣場．可以從過去的一個破敗的場域．華麗大變身Before and after只要政策正確．"},{"start":631.428,"end":641.641,"text":"而政權移轉接棒的人也要好好的去用心的來做對的政策"},{"start":642.892,"end":643.593,"text":"現在淪為執法的爭議、產權的糾紛、司法的訴訟"},{"start":663.735,"end":664.035,"text":"最後一頁有人說"},{"start":686.058,"end":696.399,"text":"金融市東岸廣場這件事情大日公司以5050萬的權利金取得東岸的經營權來批判林右昌前市長"},{"start":697.765,"end":706.35,"text":"我要替他澄清當年零幼昌市場保底可以收到的權利金是5050萬但是謝國良跟微風簽約保底價只有2655萬誰替政府賺錢誰讓政府吃虧比一比就知道"},{"start":719.366,"end":744.347,"text":"國民黨在批評大日公司不可以轉租給Net事實是什麼呢在這個個案當中Net就是大日的協力商合約上清清楚楚也是合約上規範可以邀請協力的廠商合作之友不要這樣抹黑依法依合約辦事的林佑昌前市長"},{"start":746.244,"end":774.407,"text":"國民黨又在罵內特增加商業面積是增加獲益喔跟大家澄清增加的廣場的面積是公共空間24小時公民可以使用如同為基隆市爭取了一個大公園不是增加商場賺錢獲益的面積而是增加24小時基隆市民都可以使用的公共空間"},{"start":776.147,"end":776.928,"text":"尊健的產權沒有登記嗎?"},{"start":801.721,"end":822.942,"text":"我要澄清只要謝國良市長照著合約走就都不會有這些爭議但是謝國良要以強盜的行為強行來接管所以呢謝國良現在是強盜案的被告如果不要去搞這些奇奇怪怪的變更採購"},{"start":825.629,"end":852.058,"text":"涉及讓條件很不對等的廠商來標得這樣一個珍貴的促參成功的案例都不會有現在的產權爭議都不會有現在的執法爭議所以今天我花一些時間因為我真的是絞盡腦汁很想知道昭緯排案到底是見質哪一個個案後來經過釐清追查"},{"start":853.089,"end":854.249,"text":"我希望未來的朝委排案主題要明確議題要清晰但是"},{"start":878.797,"end":878.897,"text":"主席"}]}}}}