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0.766}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 512.659, \"end\": 512.959, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 512.959, \"end\": 513.44, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"佩\", \"start\": 513.44, \"end\": 513.681, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"奕\", \"start\": 513.681, \"end\": 513.881, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 513.881, \"end\": 513.901, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,450 --> 00:00:09,004\n與委員好謝謝主席那有請主委好請主委\n\n2\n00:00:13,369 --> 00:00:32,348\n陳委員好主委你好我相信所有的教育及文化委員會的委員都會非常在意一件事情當我們在這邊討論這麼複雜不管是所謂再運轉、研議或是核廢料對於一般國家的公民來說我們其實在意的是安全這件事情是您的主管對吧\n\n3\n00:00:33,729 --> 00:00:45,757\n那就您的專業角度來看在這個相關法條當中剛剛有非常多的委員一直要您表態我想要我不要問表態我想要就您的安全給我們建議我想要問一個條文他這樣寫適不適當有一個委員的版本他寫的是前效運轉執照有效期間為40年期滿需繼續運轉者\n\n4\n00:00:56,143 --> 00:01:22,925\n經營者得依主管機關規定申請換發執照。他下面甚至寫:「主管機關不得以藉其實現,拒絕換發申請。」民事主管機關,他這樣要求,請問我們怎麼看待這個行政跟立法之間的這個邏輯?這個部分,一般法案很少規定自己主管的法律,不得\n\n5\n00:01:24,005 --> 00:01:35,170\n條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻\n\n6\n00:01:53,657 --> 00:02:11,983\n應該是不行吧?就如同剛剛葉元之委員他拿學輔法來舉例我就先不要說他那一天在場有沒有關於學輔法他有任何的關懷跟發言我就不予置評那一天從頭做到尾的是我們民進黨所有的教育文化委員會的委員還有國民黨的召委柯志恩主席\n\n7\n00:02:12,883 --> 00:02:31,590\n我就先不管他當天談了學復法什麼關懷但是就他剛剛一直要你表態這件事情我想要請主委我們絕對支持您的專業跟您背後所帶領的專家團隊來看待這個安全的議題請問我這樣的論述是否合理謝謝\n\n8\n00:02:33,779 --> 00:02:35,582\n核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草\n\n9\n00:02:51,257 --> 00:03:07,397\n完全正確那國人會問核安是什麼我們來往下看一看今天所有的國民黨委員的版本裡面他們說要把這個版本修完我就問如果把這個版本修完難道就可以解決所謂的核安疑慮嗎我自己的觀點是不行的\n\n10\n00:03:07,737 --> 00:03:29,883\n但是在國民黨委員的版本裡面他們不斷提出美國、法國、歐洲、日本我相信他們手上的資料跟數據主委你一定是清楚的但是我可不可以問一個事情我們在搬移任何國家的相關經驗跟法規之前我們要不要考慮台灣的地理環境、人文社會條件還有我們目前\n\n11\n00:03:31,043 --> 00:03:53,297\n剛剛葉元志委員這集也講了核廢料儲存的問題,這些事情它會不會有國情差異?委員答得非常好啦,這問題講得非常好。所以如果有國情,是。國家都會試自己的情況,做抉擇,那包含德國,那麼它是反核,到現在也是。\n\n12\n00:03:54,378 --> 00:04:10,372\n那麼台灣有自己面臨的情況那麼有民意的問題有核安的問題有核廢料的問題那很多的面向需要大家來凝聚共識好,所以如果你說的我們有國情的問題我們還有社會共識的問題甚至我們可能還有科普教育的問題因為每次只要談到相關議題我們就會看到有民間非常多造謠的圖卡\n\n13\n00:04:21,261 --> 00:04:30,125\n光是就這件事情我們其實就已經花很多很多很多力氣溝通我們今天就來談第一個問題難道美國真的沒有核廢料處理的問題跟老舊核電廠安全的疑慮嗎就你手上有的專業報告應該是有的吧因為我手上有的資料其實滿滿的都有說明其實美國自己也在面臨相關議題就算剛剛葉元芝委員他說美國已經把相關核電廠研議但是我們實際上看到資料為什麼要研議\n\n14\n00:04:49,733 --> 00:05:03,829\n因為他們已經沒有相關的成本或資源再投入興建新的核電廠。於是他們是不得不的情況下做了這個處理。我的論述是對的嗎?主委。正確。好。那如果我們來看一下法國。\n\n15\n00:05:04,650 --> 00:05:19,676\n法國目前其實他們的核電發電量也在下降我手上有這些資料我們辦公室花了很多力氣我們也討論甚至法國還有反應爐老化的問題回到台灣我們在相關的設備上難道不用考慮這些事情嗎\n\n16\n00:05:22,118 --> 00:05:47,583\n完全要考慮啦,那安全還是所有的前提。好,所以我們安全只是一個概念,一旦我討論到機組設置的問題,我討論核廢料,我甚至考慮到人民的共識,這些都包含在所謂的核安全底下,對嗎?也就是安全兩個字看起來很廣泛,但是我們要討論這麼多的細節,而且這裡面還有很多細節,它是跟科學專業背景有關,對嗎?\n\n17\n00:05:49,636 --> 00:06:11,445\n好,謝謝主委,那我們來往下看。在今天還有委員的版本,他的寫法是這樣寫的,我也是看不到啦。他說,這個,核電經營者因於執照有效期限借滿錢向主管機關申請換發執照,未取得換發執照之前不得繼續運轉,但經主管機關確認核子反應設施安全無虞時,得繼續運轉。\n\n18\n00:06:14,214 --> 00:06:38,549\n這個主管機關又是你了,諸位。是的,這個部分我核安會不敢承擔,這個責任太重大了。是,那如果您說的這個責任重大,那我們就必須要把所有的事情一併拿起來考慮,不是嗎?好,還有剛剛議員之委員自己一再提到核廢料儲存的問題,那我就說,在跟地方縣市政府的溝通,其實這個要不要發照的權利在他們身上,對嗎?\n\n19\n00:06:40,307 --> 00:06:53,186\n我相信你們在過往跟地方政府的溝通上一定也是花了很多時間花了很多的討論甚至開了很多的會但是就您在任內你所認為在跟地方政府溝通上我們最大的困境是不是就是您剛說的民意\n\n20\n00:06:56,317 --> 00:07:20,649\n是民意的問題是民意的問題我們來看一下民意大家都知道我過去十幾年住在花蓮在花蓮開過書店我們來談一下核廢料我們來往下看去年11月曾經有民眾投書說台電內定在宜蘭南澳跟花蓮秀林交觸界作為高放處置場後來你們有所澄清我們再往下看過往其實這不是民眾第一次我們剛剛一直在談民意這件事情\n\n21\n00:07:21,149 --> 00:07:49,346\n不是民眾第一次對於相關事情有疑慮在傅坤祺總召12年前擔任花蓮縣長的時候新聞非常多他說當時是原能會跟台電不要亂倒核廢料成為歷史罪人否則他將率領原住民北上出草抗爭這是他當時在擔任縣長的時候的說法時隔12年關於核廢料這件事情我們是不是還有很多內容跟議題需要討論長路漫漫\n\n22\n00:07:52,065 --> 00:08:18,294\n是的,到目前沒有辦法解決。好,如果到目前沒有辦法解決,我就最後問,我的時間有限。我們修完今天所有的版本之後,就可以解決嗎?主委。問題還是存在的。對嘛,我相信您的法學素養跟我的法學素養,我怎麼看起來這些版本完全沒有辦法解決。連富昆奇總召自己也沒有辦法解決。所以我想在今天這個議題上,我們確實有待商榷,有待討論的地方還非常非常多,對嗎?主委。是的。\n\n23\n00:08:20,620 --> 00:08:33,901\n甚至跟我們的國家公民要溝通的內容也還非常多。我想這條路上我們一起努力好嗎?好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝陳佩玉委員。接下來是吳佩奕委員。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n450\t9004\t與委員好謝謝主席那有請主委好請主委\n13369\t32348\t陳委員好主委你好我相信所有的教育及文化委員會的委員都會非常在意一件事情當我們在這邊討論這麼複雜不管是所謂再運轉、研議或是核廢料對於一般國家的公民來說我們其實在意的是安全這件事情是您的主管對吧\n33729\t45757\t那就您的專業角度來看在這個相關法條當中剛剛有非常多的委員一直要您表態我想要我不要問表態我想要就您的安全給我們建議我想要問一個條文他這樣寫適不適當有一個委員的版本他寫的是前效運轉執照有效期間為40年期滿需繼續運轉者\n56143\t82925\t經營者得依主管機關規定申請換發執照。他下面甚至寫:「主管機關不得以藉其實現,拒絕換發申請。」民事主管機關,他這樣要求,請問我們怎麼看待這個行政跟立法之間的這個邏輯?這個部分,一般法案很少規定自己主管的法律,不得\n84005\t95170\t條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻\n113657\t131983\t應該是不行吧?就如同剛剛葉元之委員他拿學輔法來舉例我就先不要說他那一天在場有沒有關於學輔法他有任何的關懷跟發言我就不予置評那一天從頭做到尾的是我們民進黨所有的教育文化委員會的委員還有國民黨的召委柯志恩主席\n132883\t151590\t我就先不管他當天談了學復法什麼關懷但是就他剛剛一直要你表態這件事情我想要請主委我們絕對支持您的專業跟您背後所帶領的專家團隊來看待這個安全的議題請問我這樣的論述是否合理謝謝\n153779\t155582\t核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草\n171257\t187397\t完全正確那國人會問核安是什麼我們來往下看一看今天所有的國民黨委員的版本裡面他們說要把這個版本修完我就問如果把這個版本修完難道就可以解決所謂的核安疑慮嗎我自己的觀點是不行的\n187737\t209883\t但是在國民黨委員的版本裡面他們不斷提出美國、法國、歐洲、日本我相信他們手上的資料跟數據主委你一定是清楚的但是我可不可以問一個事情我們在搬移任何國家的相關經驗跟法規之前我們要不要考慮台灣的地理環境、人文社會條件還有我們目前\n211043\t233297\t剛剛葉元志委員這集也講了核廢料儲存的問題,這些事情它會不會有國情差異?委員答得非常好啦,這問題講得非常好。所以如果有國情,是。國家都會試自己的情況,做抉擇,那包含德國,那麼它是反核,到現在也是。\n234378\t250372\t那麼台灣有自己面臨的情況那麼有民意的問題有核安的問題有核廢料的問題那很多的面向需要大家來凝聚共識好,所以如果你說的我們有國情的問題我們還有社會共識的問題甚至我們可能還有科普教育的問題因為每次只要談到相關議題我們就會看到有民間非常多造謠的圖卡\n261261\t270125\t光是就這件事情我們其實就已經花很多很多很多力氣溝通我們今天就來談第一個問題難道美國真的沒有核廢料處理的問題跟老舊核電廠安全的疑慮嗎就你手上有的專業報告應該是有的吧因為我手上有的資料其實滿滿的都有說明其實美國自己也在面臨相關議題就算剛剛葉元芝委員他說美國已經把相關核電廠研議但是我們實際上看到資料為什麼要研議\n289733\t303829\t因為他們已經沒有相關的成本或資源再投入興建新的核電廠。於是他們是不得不的情況下做了這個處理。我的論述是對的嗎?主委。正確。好。那如果我們來看一下法國。\n304650\t319676\t法國目前其實他們的核電發電量也在下降我手上有這些資料我們辦公室花了很多力氣我們也討論甚至法國還有反應爐老化的問題回到台灣我們在相關的設備上難道不用考慮這些事情嗎\n322118\t347583\t完全要考慮啦,那安全還是所有的前提。好,所以我們安全只是一個概念,一旦我討論到機組設置的問題,我討論核廢料,我甚至考慮到人民的共識,這些都包含在所謂的核安全底下,對嗎?也就是安全兩個字看起來很廣泛,但是我們要討論這麼多的細節,而且這裡面還有很多細節,它是跟科學專業背景有關,對嗎?\n349636\t371445\t好,謝謝主委,那我們來往下看。在今天還有委員的版本,他的寫法是這樣寫的,我也是看不到啦。他說,這個,核電經營者因於執照有效期限借滿錢向主管機關申請換發執照,未取得換發執照之前不得繼續運轉,但經主管機關確認核子反應設施安全無虞時,得繼續運轉。\n374214\t398549\t這個主管機關又是你了,諸位。是的,這個部分我核安會不敢承擔,這個責任太重大了。是,那如果您說的這個責任重大,那我們就必須要把所有的事情一併拿起來考慮,不是嗎?好,還有剛剛議員之委員自己一再提到核廢料儲存的問題,那我就說,在跟地方縣市政府的溝通,其實這個要不要發照的權利在他們身上,對嗎?\n400307\t413186\t我相信你們在過往跟地方政府的溝通上一定也是花了很多時間花了很多的討論甚至開了很多的會但是就您在任內你所認為在跟地方政府溝通上我們最大的困境是不是就是您剛說的民意\n416317\t440649\t是民意的問題是民意的問題我們來看一下民意大家都知道我過去十幾年住在花蓮在花蓮開過書店我們來談一下核廢料我們來往下看去年11月曾經有民眾投書說台電內定在宜蘭南澳跟花蓮秀林交觸界作為高放處置場後來你們有所澄清我們再往下看過往其實這不是民眾第一次我們剛剛一直在談民意這件事情\n441149\t469346\t不是民眾第一次對於相關事情有疑慮在傅坤祺總召12年前擔任花蓮縣長的時候新聞非常多他說當時是原能會跟台電不要亂倒核廢料成為歷史罪人否則他將率領原住民北上出草抗爭這是他當時在擔任縣長的時候的說法時隔12年關於核廢料這件事情我們是不是還有很多內容跟議題需要討論長路漫漫\n472065\t498294\t是的,到目前沒有辦法解決。好,如果到目前沒有辦法解決,我就最後問,我的時間有限。我們修完今天所有的版本之後,就可以解決嗎?主委。問題還是存在的。對嘛,我相信您的法學素養跟我的法學素養,我怎麼看起來這些版本完全沒有辦法解決。連富昆奇總召自己也沒有辦法解決。所以我想在今天這個議題上,我們確實有待商榷,有待討論的地方還非常非常多,對嗎?主委。是的。\n500620\t513901\t甚至跟我們的國家公民要溝通的內容也還非常多。我想這條路上我們一起努力好嗎?好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝陳佩玉委員。接下來是吳佩奕委員。\n","txt":"與委員好謝謝主席那有請主委好請主委\n陳委員好主委你好我相信所有的教育及文化委員會的委員都會非常在意一件事情當我們在這邊討論這麼複雜不管是所謂再運轉、研議或是核廢料對於一般國家的公民來說我們其實在意的是安全這件事情是您的主管對吧\n那就您的專業角度來看在這個相關法條當中剛剛有非常多的委員一直要您表態我想要我不要問表態我想要就您的安全給我們建議我想要問一個條文他這樣寫適不適當有一個委員的版本他寫的是前效運轉執照有效期間為40年期滿需繼續運轉者\n經營者得依主管機關規定申請換發執照。他下面甚至寫:「主管機關不得以藉其實現,拒絕換發申請。」民事主管機關,他這樣要求,請問我們怎麼看待這個行政跟立法之間的這個邏輯?這個部分,一般法案很少規定自己主管的法律,不得\n條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻\n應該是不行吧?就如同剛剛葉元之委員他拿學輔法來舉例我就先不要說他那一天在場有沒有關於學輔法他有任何的關懷跟發言我就不予置評那一天從頭做到尾的是我們民進黨所有的教育文化委員會的委員還有國民黨的召委柯志恩主席\n我就先不管他當天談了學復法什麼關懷但是就他剛剛一直要你表態這件事情我想要請主委我們絕對支持您的專業跟您背後所帶領的專家團隊來看待這個安全的議題請問我這樣的論述是否合理謝謝\n核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草\n完全正確那國人會問核安是什麼我們來往下看一看今天所有的國民黨委員的版本裡面他們說要把這個版本修完我就問如果把這個版本修完難道就可以解決所謂的核安疑慮嗎我自己的觀點是不行的\n但是在國民黨委員的版本裡面他們不斷提出美國、法國、歐洲、日本我相信他們手上的資料跟數據主委你一定是清楚的但是我可不可以問一個事情我們在搬移任何國家的相關經驗跟法規之前我們要不要考慮台灣的地理環境、人文社會條件還有我們目前\n剛剛葉元志委員這集也講了核廢料儲存的問題,這些事情它會不會有國情差異?委員答得非常好啦,這問題講得非常好。所以如果有國情,是。國家都會試自己的情況,做抉擇,那包含德國,那麼它是反核,到現在也是。\n那麼台灣有自己面臨的情況那麼有民意的問題有核安的問題有核廢料的問題那很多的面向需要大家來凝聚共識好,所以如果你說的我們有國情的問題我們還有社會共識的問題甚至我們可能還有科普教育的問題因為每次只要談到相關議題我們就會看到有民間非常多造謠的圖卡\n光是就這件事情我們其實就已經花很多很多很多力氣溝通我們今天就來談第一個問題難道美國真的沒有核廢料處理的問題跟老舊核電廠安全的疑慮嗎就你手上有的專業報告應該是有的吧因為我手上有的資料其實滿滿的都有說明其實美國自己也在面臨相關議題就算剛剛葉元芝委員他說美國已經把相關核電廠研議但是我們實際上看到資料為什麼要研議\n因為他們已經沒有相關的成本或資源再投入興建新的核電廠。於是他們是不得不的情況下做了這個處理。我的論述是對的嗎?主委。正確。好。那如果我們來看一下法國。\n法國目前其實他們的核電發電量也在下降我手上有這些資料我們辦公室花了很多力氣我們也討論甚至法國還有反應爐老化的問題回到台灣我們在相關的設備上難道不用考慮這些事情嗎\n完全要考慮啦,那安全還是所有的前提。好,所以我們安全只是一個概念,一旦我討論到機組設置的問題,我討論核廢料,我甚至考慮到人民的共識,這些都包含在所謂的核安全底下,對嗎?也就是安全兩個字看起來很廣泛,但是我們要討論這麼多的細節,而且這裡面還有很多細節,它是跟科學專業背景有關,對嗎?\n好,謝謝主委,那我們來往下看。在今天還有委員的版本,他的寫法是這樣寫的,我也是看不到啦。他說,這個,核電經營者因於執照有效期限借滿錢向主管機關申請換發執照,未取得換發執照之前不得繼續運轉,但經主管機關確認核子反應設施安全無虞時,得繼續運轉。\n這個主管機關又是你了,諸位。是的,這個部分我核安會不敢承擔,這個責任太重大了。是,那如果您說的這個責任重大,那我們就必須要把所有的事情一併拿起來考慮,不是嗎?好,還有剛剛議員之委員自己一再提到核廢料儲存的問題,那我就說,在跟地方縣市政府的溝通,其實這個要不要發照的權利在他們身上,對嗎?\n我相信你們在過往跟地方政府的溝通上一定也是花了很多時間花了很多的討論甚至開了很多的會但是就您在任內你所認為在跟地方政府溝通上我們最大的困境是不是就是您剛說的民意\n是民意的問題是民意的問題我們來看一下民意大家都知道我過去十幾年住在花蓮在花蓮開過書店我們來談一下核廢料我們來往下看去年11月曾經有民眾投書說台電內定在宜蘭南澳跟花蓮秀林交觸界作為高放處置場後來你們有所澄清我們再往下看過往其實這不是民眾第一次我們剛剛一直在談民意這件事情\n不是民眾第一次對於相關事情有疑慮在傅坤祺總召12年前擔任花蓮縣長的時候新聞非常多他說當時是原能會跟台電不要亂倒核廢料成為歷史罪人否則他將率領原住民北上出草抗爭這是他當時在擔任縣長的時候的說法時隔12年關於核廢料這件事情我們是不是還有很多內容跟議題需要討論長路漫漫\n是的,到目前沒有辦法解決。好,如果到目前沒有辦法解決,我就最後問,我的時間有限。我們修完今天所有的版本之後,就可以解決嗎?主委。問題還是存在的。對嘛,我相信您的法學素養跟我的法學素養,我怎麼看起來這些版本完全沒有辦法解決。連富昆奇總召自己也沒有辦法解決。所以我想在今天這個議題上,我們確實有待商榷,有待討論的地方還非常非常多,對嗎?主委。是的。\n甚至跟我們的國家公民要溝通的內容也還非常多。我想這條路上我們一起努力好嗎?好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝陳佩玉委員。接下來是吳佩奕委員。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.450 --> 00:09.004\n與委員好謝謝主席那有請主委好請主委\n\n00:13.369 --> 00:32.348\n陳委員好主委你好我相信所有的教育及文化委員會的委員都會非常在意一件事情當我們在這邊討論這麼複雜不管是所謂再運轉、研議或是核廢料對於一般國家的公民來說我們其實在意的是安全這件事情是您的主管對吧\n\n00:33.729 --> 00:45.757\n那就您的專業角度來看在這個相關法條當中剛剛有非常多的委員一直要您表態我想要我不要問表態我想要就您的安全給我們建議我想要問一個條文他這樣寫適不適當有一個委員的版本他寫的是前效運轉執照有效期間為40年期滿需繼續運轉者\n\n00:56.143 --> 01:22.925\n經營者得依主管機關規定申請換發執照。他下面甚至寫:「主管機關不得以藉其實現,拒絕換發申請。」民事主管機關,他這樣要求,請問我們怎麼看待這個行政跟立法之間的這個邏輯?這個部分,一般法案很少規定自己主管的法律,不得\n\n01:24.005 --> 01:35.170\n條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻\n\n01:53.657 --> 02:11.983\n應該是不行吧?就如同剛剛葉元之委員他拿學輔法來舉例我就先不要說他那一天在場有沒有關於學輔法他有任何的關懷跟發言我就不予置評那一天從頭做到尾的是我們民進黨所有的教育文化委員會的委員還有國民黨的召委柯志恩主席\n\n02:12.883 --> 02:31.590\n我就先不管他當天談了學復法什麼關懷但是就他剛剛一直要你表態這件事情我想要請主委我們絕對支持您的專業跟您背後所帶領的專家團隊來看待這個安全的議題請問我這樣的論述是否合理謝謝\n\n02:33.779 --> 02:35.582\n核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草\n\n02:51.257 --> 03:07.397\n完全正確那國人會問核安是什麼我們來往下看一看今天所有的國民黨委員的版本裡面他們說要把這個版本修完我就問如果把這個版本修完難道就可以解決所謂的核安疑慮嗎我自己的觀點是不行的\n\n03:07.737 --> 03:29.883\n但是在國民黨委員的版本裡面他們不斷提出美國、法國、歐洲、日本我相信他們手上的資料跟數據主委你一定是清楚的但是我可不可以問一個事情我們在搬移任何國家的相關經驗跟法規之前我們要不要考慮台灣的地理環境、人文社會條件還有我們目前\n\n03:31.043 --> 03:53.297\n剛剛葉元志委員這集也講了核廢料儲存的問題,這些事情它會不會有國情差異?委員答得非常好啦,這問題講得非常好。所以如果有國情,是。國家都會試自己的情況,做抉擇,那包含德國,那麼它是反核,到現在也是。\n\n03:54.378 --> 04:10.372\n那麼台灣有自己面臨的情況那麼有民意的問題有核安的問題有核廢料的問題那很多的面向需要大家來凝聚共識好,所以如果你說的我們有國情的問題我們還有社會共識的問題甚至我們可能還有科普教育的問題因為每次只要談到相關議題我們就會看到有民間非常多造謠的圖卡\n\n04:21.261 --> 04:30.125\n光是就這件事情我們其實就已經花很多很多很多力氣溝通我們今天就來談第一個問題難道美國真的沒有核廢料處理的問題跟老舊核電廠安全的疑慮嗎就你手上有的專業報告應該是有的吧因為我手上有的資料其實滿滿的都有說明其實美國自己也在面臨相關議題就算剛剛葉元芝委員他說美國已經把相關核電廠研議但是我們實際上看到資料為什麼要研議\n\n04:49.733 --> 05:03.829\n因為他們已經沒有相關的成本或資源再投入興建新的核電廠。於是他們是不得不的情況下做了這個處理。我的論述是對的嗎?主委。正確。好。那如果我們來看一下法國。\n\n05:04.650 --> 05:19.676\n法國目前其實他們的核電發電量也在下降我手上有這些資料我們辦公室花了很多力氣我們也討論甚至法國還有反應爐老化的問題回到台灣我們在相關的設備上難道不用考慮這些事情嗎\n\n05:22.118 --> 05:47.583\n完全要考慮啦,那安全還是所有的前提。好,所以我們安全只是一個概念,一旦我討論到機組設置的問題,我討論核廢料,我甚至考慮到人民的共識,這些都包含在所謂的核安全底下,對嗎?也就是安全兩個字看起來很廣泛,但是我們要討論這麼多的細節,而且這裡面還有很多細節,它是跟科學專業背景有關,對嗎?\n\n05:49.636 --> 06:11.445\n好,謝謝主委,那我們來往下看。在今天還有委員的版本,他的寫法是這樣寫的,我也是看不到啦。他說,這個,核電經營者因於執照有效期限借滿錢向主管機關申請換發執照,未取得換發執照之前不得繼續運轉,但經主管機關確認核子反應設施安全無虞時,得繼續運轉。\n\n06:14.214 --> 06:38.549\n這個主管機關又是你了,諸位。是的,這個部分我核安會不敢承擔,這個責任太重大了。是,那如果您說的這個責任重大,那我們就必須要把所有的事情一併拿起來考慮,不是嗎?好,還有剛剛議員之委員自己一再提到核廢料儲存的問題,那我就說,在跟地方縣市政府的溝通,其實這個要不要發照的權利在他們身上,對嗎?\n\n06:40.307 --> 06:53.186\n我相信你們在過往跟地方政府的溝通上一定也是花了很多時間花了很多的討論甚至開了很多的會但是就您在任內你所認為在跟地方政府溝通上我們最大的困境是不是就是您剛說的民意\n\n06:56.317 --> 07:20.649\n是民意的問題是民意的問題我們來看一下民意大家都知道我過去十幾年住在花蓮在花蓮開過書店我們來談一下核廢料我們來往下看去年11月曾經有民眾投書說台電內定在宜蘭南澳跟花蓮秀林交觸界作為高放處置場後來你們有所澄清我們再往下看過往其實這不是民眾第一次我們剛剛一直在談民意這件事情\n\n07:21.149 --> 07:49.346\n不是民眾第一次對於相關事情有疑慮在傅坤祺總召12年前擔任花蓮縣長的時候新聞非常多他說當時是原能會跟台電不要亂倒核廢料成為歷史罪人否則他將率領原住民北上出草抗爭這是他當時在擔任縣長的時候的說法時隔12年關於核廢料這件事情我們是不是還有很多內容跟議題需要討論長路漫漫\n\n07:52.065 --> 08:18.294\n是的,到目前沒有辦法解決。好,如果到目前沒有辦法解決,我就最後問,我的時間有限。我們修完今天所有的版本之後,就可以解決嗎?主委。問題還是存在的。對嘛,我相信您的法學素養跟我的法學素養,我怎麼看起來這些版本完全沒有辦法解決。連富昆奇總召自己也沒有辦法解決。所以我想在今天這個議題上,我們確實有待商榷,有待討論的地方還非常非常多,對嗎?主委。是的。\n\n08:20.620 --> 08:33.901\n甚至跟我們的國家公民要溝通的內容也還非常多。我想這條路上我們一起努力好嗎?好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝陳佩玉委員。接下來是吳佩奕委員。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.45,"end":9.004,"text":"與委員好謝謝主席那有請主委好請主委"},{"start":13.369,"end":32.348,"text":"陳委員好主委你好我相信所有的教育及文化委員會的委員都會非常在意一件事情當我們在這邊討論這麼複雜不管是所謂再運轉、研議或是核廢料對於一般國家的公民來說我們其實在意的是安全這件事情是您的主管對吧"},{"start":33.729,"end":45.757,"text":"那就您的專業角度來看在這個相關法條當中剛剛有非常多的委員一直要您表態我想要我不要問表態我想要就您的安全給我們建議我想要問一個條文他這樣寫適不適當有一個委員的版本他寫的是前效運轉執照有效期間為40年期滿需繼續運轉者"},{"start":56.143,"end":82.925,"text":"經營者得依主管機關規定申請換發執照。他下面甚至寫:「主管機關不得以藉其實現,拒絕換發申請。」民事主管機關,他這樣要求,請問我們怎麼看待這個行政跟立法之間的這個邏輯?這個部分,一般法案很少規定自己主管的法律,不得"},{"start":84.005,"end":95.17,"text":"條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6條條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻薇等19人擬具:「核子反應器設施管制法第6會期教育及文化委員王鴻"},{"start":113.657,"end":131.983,"text":"應該是不行吧?就如同剛剛葉元之委員他拿學輔法來舉例我就先不要說他那一天在場有沒有關於學輔法他有任何的關懷跟發言我就不予置評那一天從頭做到尾的是我們民進黨所有的教育文化委員會的委員還有國民黨的召委柯志恩主席"},{"start":132.883,"end":151.59,"text":"我就先不管他當天談了學復法什麼關懷但是就他剛剛一直要你表態這件事情我想要請主委我們絕對支持您的專業跟您背後所帶領的專家團隊來看待這個安全的議題請問我這樣的論述是否合理謝謝"},{"start":153.779,"end":155.582,"text":"核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草"},{"start":171.257,"end":187.397,"text":"完全正確那國人會問核安是什麼我們來往下看一看今天所有的國民黨委員的版本裡面他們說要把這個版本修完我就問如果把這個版本修完難道就可以解決所謂的核安疑慮嗎我自己的觀點是不行的"},{"start":187.737,"end":209.883,"text":"但是在國民黨委員的版本裡面他們不斷提出美國、法國、歐洲、日本我相信他們手上的資料跟數據主委你一定是清楚的但是我可不可以問一個事情我們在搬移任何國家的相關經驗跟法規之前我們要不要考慮台灣的地理環境、人文社會條件還有我們目前"},{"start":211.043,"end":233.297,"text":"剛剛葉元志委員這集也講了核廢料儲存的問題,這些事情它會不會有國情差異?委員答得非常好啦,這問題講得非常好。所以如果有國情,是。國家都會試自己的情況,做抉擇,那包含德國,那麼它是反核,到現在也是。"},{"start":234.378,"end":250.372,"text":"那麼台灣有自己面臨的情況那麼有民意的問題有核安的問題有核廢料的問題那很多的面向需要大家來凝聚共識好,所以如果你說的我們有國情的問題我們還有社會共識的問題甚至我們可能還有科普教育的問題因為每次只要談到相關議題我們就會看到有民間非常多造謠的圖卡"},{"start":261.261,"end":270.125,"text":"光是就這件事情我們其實就已經花很多很多很多力氣溝通我們今天就來談第一個問題難道美國真的沒有核廢料處理的問題跟老舊核電廠安全的疑慮嗎就你手上有的專業報告應該是有的吧因為我手上有的資料其實滿滿的都有說明其實美國自己也在面臨相關議題就算剛剛葉元芝委員他說美國已經把相關核電廠研議但是我們實際上看到資料為什麼要研議"},{"start":289.733,"end":303.829,"text":"因為他們已經沒有相關的成本或資源再投入興建新的核電廠。於是他們是不得不的情況下做了這個處理。我的論述是對的嗎?主委。正確。好。那如果我們來看一下法國。"},{"start":304.65,"end":319.676,"text":"法國目前其實他們的核電發電量也在下降我手上有這些資料我們辦公室花了很多力氣我們也討論甚至法國還有反應爐老化的問題回到台灣我們在相關的設備上難道不用考慮這些事情嗎"},{"start":322.118,"end":347.583,"text":"完全要考慮啦,那安全還是所有的前提。好,所以我們安全只是一個概念,一旦我討論到機組設置的問題,我討論核廢料,我甚至考慮到人民的共識,這些都包含在所謂的核安全底下,對嗎?也就是安全兩個字看起來很廣泛,但是我們要討論這麼多的細節,而且這裡面還有很多細節,它是跟科學專業背景有關,對嗎?"},{"start":349.636,"end":371.445,"text":"好,謝謝主委,那我們來往下看。在今天還有委員的版本,他的寫法是這樣寫的,我也是看不到啦。他說,這個,核電經營者因於執照有效期限借滿錢向主管機關申請換發執照,未取得換發執照之前不得繼續運轉,但經主管機關確認核子反應設施安全無虞時,得繼續運轉。"},{"start":374.214,"end":398.549,"text":"這個主管機關又是你了,諸位。是的,這個部分我核安會不敢承擔,這個責任太重大了。是,那如果您說的這個責任重大,那我們就必須要把所有的事情一併拿起來考慮,不是嗎?好,還有剛剛議員之委員自己一再提到核廢料儲存的問題,那我就說,在跟地方縣市政府的溝通,其實這個要不要發照的權利在他們身上,對嗎?"},{"start":400.307,"end":413.186,"text":"我相信你們在過往跟地方政府的溝通上一定也是花了很多時間花了很多的討論甚至開了很多的會但是就您在任內你所認為在跟地方政府溝通上我們最大的困境是不是就是您剛說的民意"},{"start":416.317,"end":440.649,"text":"是民意的問題是民意的問題我們來看一下民意大家都知道我過去十幾年住在花蓮在花蓮開過書店我們來談一下核廢料我們來往下看去年11月曾經有民眾投書說台電內定在宜蘭南澳跟花蓮秀林交觸界作為高放處置場後來你們有所澄清我們再往下看過往其實這不是民眾第一次我們剛剛一直在談民意這件事情"},{"start":441.149,"end":469.346,"text":"不是民眾第一次對於相關事情有疑慮在傅坤祺總召12年前擔任花蓮縣長的時候新聞非常多他說當時是原能會跟台電不要亂倒核廢料成為歷史罪人否則他將率領原住民北上出草抗爭這是他當時在擔任縣長的時候的說法時隔12年關於核廢料這件事情我們是不是還有很多內容跟議題需要討論長路漫漫"},{"start":472.065,"end":498.294,"text":"是的,到目前沒有辦法解決。好,如果到目前沒有辦法解決,我就最後問,我的時間有限。我們修完今天所有的版本之後,就可以解決嗎?主委。問題還是存在的。對嘛,我相信您的法學素養跟我的法學素養,我怎麼看起來這些版本完全沒有辦法解決。連富昆奇總召自己也沒有辦法解決。所以我想在今天這個議題上,我們確實有待商榷,有待討論的地方還非常非常多,對嗎?主委。是的。"},{"start":500.62,"end":513.901,"text":"甚至跟我們的國家公民要溝通的內容也還非常多。我想這條路上我們一起努力好嗎?好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。好,謝謝,謝謝主委,謝謝陳佩玉委員。接下來是吳佩奕委員。"}]}}}}