{"id":154641,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154641","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1b498260953197f8bd1576c2c51470012652beeb573fd6de7bbd165341284486f2f941b50267ca495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:26:12 - 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95.857, \"text\": \"實際上這個也是一個公私之間的關係嘛公跟私嘛是政府要進這批雞蛋嘛只是透過續產會去處理續產會主要錢也都是來自於政府但續產會他在採購的時候他可以直接繞過採購法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 82.269, \"end\": 82.669, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 82.669, \"end\": 82.81, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 82.81, \"end\": 82.91, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 82.91, \"end\": 83.11, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 83.11, \"end\": 83.29, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"私\", \"start\": 83.29, \"end\": 83.41, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 83.41, \"end\": 83.47, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 83.47, \"end\": 84.05, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 84.05, \"end\": 84.23, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 84.23, \"end\": 84.39, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"跟\", 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 357.617, \"end\": 357.637, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,145 --> 00:00:14,772\n我請法務部工程會我請法務部工程會\n\n2\n00:00:24,253 --> 00:00:49,467\n部長好還有處長好我有一個問題想要請教一下我非常好奇因為上一次在經濟委員會的時候我詢問農業部長有關於超私跟量財的問題他們是透過續產會的方式去買這批雞蛋然後因為超私跟量財發現一個非常奇怪的狀況就是續產會是跟量財簽約可是卻叫\n\n3\n00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:54,976\n續產會付錢給超私那當時我就問農業部說為什麼會出現這個狀況那有沒有去督導續產會可是\n\n4\n00:01:02,536 --> 00:01:21,169\n農業部部長給我的答案是說他不能去了解他說續產會到底要怎麼做超私跟量財這個是司法人之間關係就是私人跟私人關係政府不能去查所以他就完全沒有責任然後就直接移送減掉所以今天看到這個題目我也非常好奇就是說\n\n5\n00:01:22,269 --> 00:01:35,857\n實際上這個也是一個公私之間的關係嘛公跟私嘛是政府要進這批雞蛋嘛只是透過續產會去處理續產會主要錢也都是來自於政府但續產會他在採購的時候他可以直接繞過採購法\n\n6\n00:01:37,498 --> 00:01:59,752\n然後做出這麼奇怪的採購行為然後可以跟A公司簽約卻付錢給B公司然後造成了一些弊端政府完全說跟他無關這個就是減掉問題如果沒有弊案的話或是沒有司法問題的話就跟政府無關我問一下那個部長啊像這樣的一個模式在我們政府的採購是很常見的嗎\n\n7\n00:02:02,906 --> 00:02:26,801\n各位報告我是次長那委員您提的是指抄那個個案嗎對對對這個個案因為台北地檢署他已經分幾個案子在偵辦我問模式我問模式因為我覺得這個模式很奇怪模式的話就涉及到法務部並不是這個相關的主管機關因為我們今天不是要討論那個公司之間的採購關係那採購的主管機關並不是法務部那是哪一個機關\n\n8\n00:02:29,545 --> 00:02:55,442\n是工程會嗎?工程會OK跟委員報告那在農業部採購雞蛋這個案子因為依照採購法第7條雞蛋是屬於生鮮農藝產品不是採購法的適用範圍我知道我這個我知道但是後來他也有一些像冷鏈啊運費啊他是沒有透過採購法嘛然後後來農業部的說法就是說他不符合採購法的我們就不付錢可是實際上這個如果沒有被抓到的話他就是違反採購法\n\n9\n00:02:56,909 --> 00:03:05,022\n那我現在問的是說在政府裡面有這樣的採購行為身為採購主管機關你不覺得很奇怪嗎?這合理嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:06,618 --> 00:03:32,576\n呃這個部分我不太理解不是我的意思我剛已經把那個案情都已經敘述一遍但我現在不問個案我是說現在能不能政府有一個機構這個機構呢補助另外一個法人然後由那個法人來進行政府要採購的事項結果非常的寬鬆當這個法人採購的過程當中出現問題然後農業部然後那個部會可以講說這跟我沒有關係那個就是私人跟私人之間的關係\n\n11\n00:03:33,877 --> 00:04:01,115\n然後他完全沒有督導的責任那這難道不是一個規避採購法的行為嗎我跟委員報告依據採購法第4條政府機關補助法人金額達到50%以上或是達到公告金額以上的話那這個法人辦理採購是必須依據採購法的對啊可是問題是那時候農業部就說我那時候問他說那超市跟量採關係他說他沒辦法督導啊他說就送給減掉啊那行政機關在這個過程當中完全沒責任嗎\n\n12\n00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:28,066\n報告委員在超私跟這個是屬於得標廠商跟協力廠商的事情這個並沒有在採購法的規範範圍內除非他有違反轉保那個處長對不對是處長齁你現在一直在講法條嘛對不對我們現在就是講說這件事情的不合理之處嘛那如果說這個法條衍生出這樣的不合理之處我們是不是就要討論這個法條定定的是否過於寬鬆或是有沒有漏網之魚嘛\n\n13\n00:04:29,292 --> 00:04:34,275\n所以我把問題講出來我相信我這樣子講大家都會覺得很奇怪農業部委託續產會花大錢給續產會結果續產會\n\n14\n00:04:39,343 --> 00:04:39,363\n會不會?\n\n15\n00:05:01,940 --> 00:05:21,832\n會不會我講的都是事實喔不是我掰出來的喔你會不會覺得在我們現在政府機關還存在的這樣的採購行為會不會很奇怪你不敢回答就是很奇怪啦因為如果不奇怪你就會說不奇怪了那如果出現這樣的行為是不是我們現在法律訂定上面可能有一些漏洞才會造成這樣的行為有沒有好時間到了\n\n16\n00:05:29,557 --> 00:05:55,338\n那...那不然我也不為難你啦可能你也沒有...你也沒有準備啦是不是可以針對我剛剛那個問題就是事後補一份報告給我好不好委員的問題是指超市跟...就是我剛剛那個模式就是超市那個模式然後但是...但是行政機關卻沒有任何的責任然後他都說他依法他都合法的這樣子有沒有很奇怪你給我...你...你補個答案給我啦好不好是好謝謝謝謝\n\n17\n00:05:57,617 --> 00:05:57,637\n謝謝次長、謝謝處長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12145\t14772\t我請法務部工程會我請法務部工程會\n24253\t49467\t部長好還有處長好我有一個問題想要請教一下我非常好奇因為上一次在經濟委員會的時候我詢問農業部長有關於超私跟量財的問題他們是透過續產會的方式去買這批雞蛋然後因為超私跟量財發現一個非常奇怪的狀況就是續產會是跟量財簽約可是卻叫\n51590\t54976\t續產會付錢給超私那當時我就問農業部說為什麼會出現這個狀況那有沒有去督導續產會可是\n62536\t81169\t農業部部長給我的答案是說他不能去了解他說續產會到底要怎麼做超私跟量財這個是司法人之間關係就是私人跟私人關係政府不能去查所以他就完全沒有責任然後就直接移送減掉所以今天看到這個題目我也非常好奇就是說\n82269\t95857\t實際上這個也是一個公私之間的關係嘛公跟私嘛是政府要進這批雞蛋嘛只是透過續產會去處理續產會主要錢也都是來自於政府但續產會他在採購的時候他可以直接繞過採購法\n97498\t119752\t然後做出這麼奇怪的採購行為然後可以跟A公司簽約卻付錢給B公司然後造成了一些弊端政府完全說跟他無關這個就是減掉問題如果沒有弊案的話或是沒有司法問題的話就跟政府無關我問一下那個部長啊像這樣的一個模式在我們政府的採購是很常見的嗎\n122906\t146801\t各位報告我是次長那委員您提的是指抄那個個案嗎對對對這個個案因為台北地檢署他已經分幾個案子在偵辦我問模式我問模式因為我覺得這個模式很奇怪模式的話就涉及到法務部並不是這個相關的主管機關因為我們今天不是要討論那個公司之間的採購關係那採購的主管機關並不是法務部那是哪一個機關\n149545\t175442\t是工程會嗎?工程會OK跟委員報告那在農業部採購雞蛋這個案子因為依照採購法第7條雞蛋是屬於生鮮農藝產品不是採購法的適用範圍我知道我這個我知道但是後來他也有一些像冷鏈啊運費啊他是沒有透過採購法嘛然後後來農業部的說法就是說他不符合採購法的我們就不付錢可是實際上這個如果沒有被抓到的話他就是違反採購法\n176909\t185022\t那我現在問的是說在政府裡面有這樣的採購行為身為採購主管機關你不覺得很奇怪嗎?這合理嗎?\n186618\t212576\t呃 這個部分我不太理解不是 我的意思我剛已經把那個案情都已經敘述一遍但我現在不問個案我是說現在能不能政府有一個機構這個機構呢補助另外一個法人然後由那個法人來進行政府要採購的事項結果非常的寬鬆當這個法人採購的過程當中出現問題然後農業部然後那個部會可以講說這跟我沒有關係那個就是私人跟私人之間的關係\n213877\t241115\t然後他完全沒有督導的責任那這難道不是一個規避採購法的行為嗎我跟委員報告依據採購法第4條政府機關補助法人金額達到50%以上或是達到公告金額以上的話那這個法人辦理採購是必須依據採購法的對啊可是問題是那時候農業部就說我那時候問他說那超市跟量採關係他說他沒辦法督導啊他說就送給減掉啊那行政機關在這個過程當中完全沒責任嗎\n243076\t268066\t報告委員在超私跟這個是屬於得標廠商跟協力廠商的事情這個並沒有在採購法的規範範圍內除非他有違反轉保那個處長對不對是處長齁你現在一直在講法條嘛對不對我們現在就是講說這件事情的不合理之處嘛那如果說這個法條衍生出這樣的不合理之處我們是不是就要討論這個法條定定的是否過於寬鬆或是有沒有漏網之魚嘛\n269292\t274275\t所以我把問題講出來我相信我這樣子講大家都會覺得很奇怪農業部委託續產會花大錢給續產會結果續產會\n279343\t279363\t會不會?\n301940\t321832\t會不會我講的都是事實喔不是我掰出來的喔你會不會覺得在我們現在政府機關還存在的這樣的採購行為會不會很奇怪你不敢回答就是很奇怪啦因為如果不奇怪你就會說不奇怪了那如果出現這樣的行為是不是我們現在法律訂定上面可能有一些漏洞才會造成這樣的行為有沒有好時間到了\n329557\t355338\t那...那不然我也不為難你啦可能你也沒有...你也沒有準備啦是不是可以針對我剛剛那個問題就是事後補一份報告給我好不好委員的問題是指超市跟...就是我剛剛那個模式就是超市那個模式然後但是...但是行政機關卻沒有任何的責任然後他都說他依法他都合法的這樣子有沒有很奇怪你給我...你...你補個答案給我啦好不好是好 謝謝 謝謝\n357617\t357637\t謝謝次長、謝謝處長\n","txt":"我請法務部工程會我請法務部工程會\n部長好還有處長好我有一個問題想要請教一下我非常好奇因為上一次在經濟委員會的時候我詢問農業部長有關於超私跟量財的問題他們是透過續產會的方式去買這批雞蛋然後因為超私跟量財發現一個非常奇怪的狀況就是續產會是跟量財簽約可是卻叫\n續產會付錢給超私那當時我就問農業部說為什麼會出現這個狀況那有沒有去督導續產會可是\n農業部部長給我的答案是說他不能去了解他說續產會到底要怎麼做超私跟量財這個是司法人之間關係就是私人跟私人關係政府不能去查所以他就完全沒有責任然後就直接移送減掉所以今天看到這個題目我也非常好奇就是說\n實際上這個也是一個公私之間的關係嘛公跟私嘛是政府要進這批雞蛋嘛只是透過續產會去處理續產會主要錢也都是來自於政府但續產會他在採購的時候他可以直接繞過採購法\n然後做出這麼奇怪的採購行為然後可以跟A公司簽約卻付錢給B公司然後造成了一些弊端政府完全說跟他無關這個就是減掉問題如果沒有弊案的話或是沒有司法問題的話就跟政府無關我問一下那個部長啊像這樣的一個模式在我們政府的採購是很常見的嗎\n各位報告我是次長那委員您提的是指抄那個個案嗎對對對這個個案因為台北地檢署他已經分幾個案子在偵辦我問模式我問模式因為我覺得這個模式很奇怪模式的話就涉及到法務部並不是這個相關的主管機關因為我們今天不是要討論那個公司之間的採購關係那採購的主管機關並不是法務部那是哪一個機關\n是工程會嗎?工程會OK跟委員報告那在農業部採購雞蛋這個案子因為依照採購法第7條雞蛋是屬於生鮮農藝產品不是採購法的適用範圍我知道我這個我知道但是後來他也有一些像冷鏈啊運費啊他是沒有透過採購法嘛然後後來農業部的說法就是說他不符合採購法的我們就不付錢可是實際上這個如果沒有被抓到的話他就是違反採購法\n那我現在問的是說在政府裡面有這樣的採購行為身為採購主管機關你不覺得很奇怪嗎?這合理嗎?\n呃 這個部分我不太理解不是 我的意思我剛已經把那個案情都已經敘述一遍但我現在不問個案我是說現在能不能政府有一個機構這個機構呢補助另外一個法人然後由那個法人來進行政府要採購的事項結果非常的寬鬆當這個法人採購的過程當中出現問題然後農業部然後那個部會可以講說這跟我沒有關係那個就是私人跟私人之間的關係\n然後他完全沒有督導的責任那這難道不是一個規避採購法的行為嗎我跟委員報告依據採購法第4條政府機關補助法人金額達到50%以上或是達到公告金額以上的話那這個法人辦理採購是必須依據採購法的對啊可是問題是那時候農業部就說我那時候問他說那超市跟量採關係他說他沒辦法督導啊他說就送給減掉啊那行政機關在這個過程當中完全沒責任嗎\n報告委員在超私跟這個是屬於得標廠商跟協力廠商的事情這個並沒有在採購法的規範範圍內除非他有違反轉保那個處長對不對是處長齁你現在一直在講法條嘛對不對我們現在就是講說這件事情的不合理之處嘛那如果說這個法條衍生出這樣的不合理之處我們是不是就要討論這個法條定定的是否過於寬鬆或是有沒有漏網之魚嘛\n所以我把問題講出來我相信我這樣子講大家都會覺得很奇怪農業部委託續產會花大錢給續產會結果續產會\n會不會?\n會不會我講的都是事實喔不是我掰出來的喔你會不會覺得在我們現在政府機關還存在的這樣的採購行為會不會很奇怪你不敢回答就是很奇怪啦因為如果不奇怪你就會說不奇怪了那如果出現這樣的行為是不是我們現在法律訂定上面可能有一些漏洞才會造成這樣的行為有沒有好時間到了\n那...那不然我也不為難你啦可能你也沒有...你也沒有準備啦是不是可以針對我剛剛那個問題就是事後補一份報告給我好不好委員的問題是指超市跟...就是我剛剛那個模式就是超市那個模式然後但是...但是行政機關卻沒有任何的責任然後他都說他依法他都合法的這樣子有沒有很奇怪你給我...你...你補個答案給我啦好不好是好 謝謝 謝謝\n謝謝次長、謝謝處長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.145 --> 00:14.772\n我請法務部工程會我請法務部工程會\n\n00:24.253 --> 00:49.467\n部長好還有處長好我有一個問題想要請教一下我非常好奇因為上一次在經濟委員會的時候我詢問農業部長有關於超私跟量財的問題他們是透過續產會的方式去買這批雞蛋然後因為超私跟量財發現一個非常奇怪的狀況就是續產會是跟量財簽約可是卻叫\n\n00:51.590 --> 00:54.976\n續產會付錢給超私那當時我就問農業部說為什麼會出現這個狀況那有沒有去督導續產會可是\n\n01:02.536 --> 01:21.169\n農業部部長給我的答案是說他不能去了解他說續產會到底要怎麼做超私跟量財這個是司法人之間關係就是私人跟私人關係政府不能去查所以他就完全沒有責任然後就直接移送減掉所以今天看到這個題目我也非常好奇就是說\n\n01:22.269 --> 01:35.857\n實際上這個也是一個公私之間的關係嘛公跟私嘛是政府要進這批雞蛋嘛只是透過續產會去處理續產會主要錢也都是來自於政府但續產會他在採購的時候他可以直接繞過採購法\n\n01:37.498 --> 01:59.752\n然後做出這麼奇怪的採購行為然後可以跟A公司簽約卻付錢給B公司然後造成了一些弊端政府完全說跟他無關這個就是減掉問題如果沒有弊案的話或是沒有司法問題的話就跟政府無關我問一下那個部長啊像這樣的一個模式在我們政府的採購是很常見的嗎\n\n02:02.906 --> 02:26.801\n各位報告我是次長那委員您提的是指抄那個個案嗎對對對這個個案因為台北地檢署他已經分幾個案子在偵辦我問模式我問模式因為我覺得這個模式很奇怪模式的話就涉及到法務部並不是這個相關的主管機關因為我們今天不是要討論那個公司之間的採購關係那採購的主管機關並不是法務部那是哪一個機關\n\n02:29.545 --> 02:55.442\n是工程會嗎?工程會OK跟委員報告那在農業部採購雞蛋這個案子因為依照採購法第7條雞蛋是屬於生鮮農藝產品不是採購法的適用範圍我知道我這個我知道但是後來他也有一些像冷鏈啊運費啊他是沒有透過採購法嘛然後後來農業部的說法就是說他不符合採購法的我們就不付錢可是實際上這個如果沒有被抓到的話他就是違反採購法\n\n02:56.909 --> 03:05.022\n那我現在問的是說在政府裡面有這樣的採購行為身為採購主管機關你不覺得很奇怪嗎?這合理嗎?\n\n03:06.618 --> 03:32.576\n呃這個部分我不太理解不是我的意思我剛已經把那個案情都已經敘述一遍但我現在不問個案我是說現在能不能政府有一個機構這個機構呢補助另外一個法人然後由那個法人來進行政府要採購的事項結果非常的寬鬆當這個法人採購的過程當中出現問題然後農業部然後那個部會可以講說這跟我沒有關係那個就是私人跟私人之間的關係\n\n03:33.877 --> 04:01.115\n然後他完全沒有督導的責任那這難道不是一個規避採購法的行為嗎我跟委員報告依據採購法第4條政府機關補助法人金額達到50%以上或是達到公告金額以上的話那這個法人辦理採購是必須依據採購法的對啊可是問題是那時候農業部就說我那時候問他說那超市跟量採關係他說他沒辦法督導啊他說就送給減掉啊那行政機關在這個過程當中完全沒責任嗎\n\n04:03.076 --> 04:28.066\n報告委員在超私跟這個是屬於得標廠商跟協力廠商的事情這個並沒有在採購法的規範範圍內除非他有違反轉保那個處長對不對是處長齁你現在一直在講法條嘛對不對我們現在就是講說這件事情的不合理之處嘛那如果說這個法條衍生出這樣的不合理之處我們是不是就要討論這個法條定定的是否過於寬鬆或是有沒有漏網之魚嘛\n\n04:29.292 --> 04:34.275\n所以我把問題講出來我相信我這樣子講大家都會覺得很奇怪農業部委託續產會花大錢給續產會結果續產會\n\n04:39.343 --> 04:39.363\n會不會?\n\n05:01.940 --> 05:21.832\n會不會我講的都是事實喔不是我掰出來的喔你會不會覺得在我們現在政府機關還存在的這樣的採購行為會不會很奇怪你不敢回答就是很奇怪啦因為如果不奇怪你就會說不奇怪了那如果出現這樣的行為是不是我們現在法律訂定上面可能有一些漏洞才會造成這樣的行為有沒有好時間到了\n\n05:29.557 --> 05:55.338\n那...那不然我也不為難你啦可能你也沒有...你也沒有準備啦是不是可以針對我剛剛那個問題就是事後補一份報告給我好不好委員的問題是指超市跟...就是我剛剛那個模式就是超市那個模式然後但是...但是行政機關卻沒有任何的責任然後他都說他依法他都合法的這樣子有沒有很奇怪你給我...你...你補個答案給我啦好不好是好謝謝謝謝\n\n05:57.617 --> 05:57.637\n謝謝次長、謝謝處長\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.145,"end":14.772,"text":"我請法務部工程會我請法務部工程會"},{"start":24.253,"end":49.467,"text":"部長好還有處長好我有一個問題想要請教一下我非常好奇因為上一次在經濟委員會的時候我詢問農業部長有關於超私跟量財的問題他們是透過續產會的方式去買這批雞蛋然後因為超私跟量財發現一個非常奇怪的狀況就是續產會是跟量財簽約可是卻叫"},{"start":51.59,"end":54.976,"text":"續產會付錢給超私那當時我就問農業部說為什麼會出現這個狀況那有沒有去督導續產會可是"},{"start":62.536,"end":81.169,"text":"農業部部長給我的答案是說他不能去了解他說續產會到底要怎麼做超私跟量財這個是司法人之間關係就是私人跟私人關係政府不能去查所以他就完全沒有責任然後就直接移送減掉所以今天看到這個題目我也非常好奇就是說"},{"start":82.269,"end":95.857,"text":"實際上這個也是一個公私之間的關係嘛公跟私嘛是政府要進這批雞蛋嘛只是透過續產會去處理續產會主要錢也都是來自於政府但續產會他在採購的時候他可以直接繞過採購法"},{"start":97.498,"end":119.752,"text":"然後做出這麼奇怪的採購行為然後可以跟A公司簽約卻付錢給B公司然後造成了一些弊端政府完全說跟他無關這個就是減掉問題如果沒有弊案的話或是沒有司法問題的話就跟政府無關我問一下那個部長啊像這樣的一個模式在我們政府的採購是很常見的嗎"},{"start":122.906,"end":146.801,"text":"各位報告我是次長那委員您提的是指抄那個個案嗎對對對這個個案因為台北地檢署他已經分幾個案子在偵辦我問模式我問模式因為我覺得這個模式很奇怪模式的話就涉及到法務部並不是這個相關的主管機關因為我們今天不是要討論那個公司之間的採購關係那採購的主管機關並不是法務部那是哪一個機關"},{"start":149.545,"end":175.442,"text":"是工程會嗎?工程會OK跟委員報告那在農業部採購雞蛋這個案子因為依照採購法第7條雞蛋是屬於生鮮農藝產品不是採購法的適用範圍我知道我這個我知道但是後來他也有一些像冷鏈啊運費啊他是沒有透過採購法嘛然後後來農業部的說法就是說他不符合採購法的我們就不付錢可是實際上這個如果沒有被抓到的話他就是違反採購法"},{"start":176.909,"end":185.022,"text":"那我現在問的是說在政府裡面有這樣的採購行為身為採購主管機關你不覺得很奇怪嗎?這合理嗎?"},{"start":186.618,"end":212.576,"text":"呃 這個部分我不太理解不是 我的意思我剛已經把那個案情都已經敘述一遍但我現在不問個案我是說現在能不能政府有一個機構這個機構呢補助另外一個法人然後由那個法人來進行政府要採購的事項結果非常的寬鬆當這個法人採購的過程當中出現問題然後農業部然後那個部會可以講說這跟我沒有關係那個就是私人跟私人之間的關係"},{"start":213.877,"end":241.115,"text":"然後他完全沒有督導的責任那這難道不是一個規避採購法的行為嗎我跟委員報告依據採購法第4條政府機關補助法人金額達到50%以上或是達到公告金額以上的話那這個法人辦理採購是必須依據採購法的對啊可是問題是那時候農業部就說我那時候問他說那超市跟量採關係他說他沒辦法督導啊他說就送給減掉啊那行政機關在這個過程當中完全沒責任嗎"},{"start":243.076,"end":268.066,"text":"報告委員在超私跟這個是屬於得標廠商跟協力廠商的事情這個並沒有在採購法的規範範圍內除非他有違反轉保那個處長對不對是處長齁你現在一直在講法條嘛對不對我們現在就是講說這件事情的不合理之處嘛那如果說這個法條衍生出這樣的不合理之處我們是不是就要討論這個法條定定的是否過於寬鬆或是有沒有漏網之魚嘛"},{"start":269.292,"end":274.275,"text":"所以我把問題講出來我相信我這樣子講大家都會覺得很奇怪農業部委託續產會花大錢給續產會結果續產會"},{"start":279.343,"end":279.363,"text":"會不會?"},{"start":301.94,"end":321.832,"text":"會不會我講的都是事實喔不是我掰出來的喔你會不會覺得在我們現在政府機關還存在的這樣的採購行為會不會很奇怪你不敢回答就是很奇怪啦因為如果不奇怪你就會說不奇怪了那如果出現這樣的行為是不是我們現在法律訂定上面可能有一些漏洞才會造成這樣的行為有沒有好時間到了"},{"start":329.557,"end":355.338,"text":"那...那不然我也不為難你啦可能你也沒有...你也沒有準備啦是不是可以針對我剛剛那個問題就是事後補一份報告給我好不好委員的問題是指超市跟...就是我剛剛那個模式就是超市那個模式然後但是...但是行政機關卻沒有任何的責任然後他都說他依法他都合法的這樣子有沒有很奇怪你給我...你...你補個答案給我啦好不好是好 謝謝 謝謝"},{"start":357.617,"end":357.637,"text":"謝謝次長、謝謝處長"}]}}}}