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55.236, \"end\": 55.316, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"糙\", \"start\": 55.316, \"end\": 55.336, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 55.336, \"end\": 55.376, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 55.376, \"end\": 55.396, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 55.396, \"end\": 55.417, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 55.417, \"end\": 55.437, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 55.437, \"end\": 55.457, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 55.457, \"end\": 55.477, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 55.477, \"end\": 55.497, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 55.497, \"end\": 55.517, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 55.517, \"end\": 55.537, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 55.537, \"end\": 55.557, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 55.557, \"end\": 55.637, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"通\", 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{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 103.775, \"end\": 103.795, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 103.795, \"end\": 103.895, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 103.895, \"end\": 103.935, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 103.935, \"end\": 103.955, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 103.955, \"end\": 103.975, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 103.975, \"end\": 104.095, \"score\": 0.491}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 104.095, \"end\": 104.115, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 104.115, \"end\": 104.255, \"score\": 0.481}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 104.255, \"end\": 104.275, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 104.275, \"end\": 104.415, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.415, \"end\": 104.515, \"score\": 0.353}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 104.515, \"end\": 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\"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 528.663, \"end\": 528.703, \"score\": 0.465}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 528.703, \"end\": 528.783, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 528.783, \"end\": 528.803, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 528.803, \"end\": 528.823, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,876 --> 00:00:05,362\n謝謝主席我請何安慧請主委吳委員好\n\n2\n00:00:11,164 --> 00:00:17,666\n主委好,剛剛前面葉元智委員問你說,主委今天是要審法條嗎?因為今天為什麼我們現在為什麼在這裡?是因為國民黨的委員提了五個提案的版本,要來修核桿法的第六條。剛剛葉元智委員問你說,主委請問你對哪一條有意見?\n\n3\n00:00:33,775 --> 00:00:36,418\n顯然一人是委員連今天要修哪一條都不知道今天就只修一條就是第六條而已那在這裡我也想要向召委表示我的意見因為我們今天提案版本通通都是國民黨立委的版本那剛剛在前面提案說明裡面\n\n4\n00:00:51,354 --> 00:00:55,737\n我一直在聽這些提案委員有沒有對於第六條裡面的內容等會主委會跟你討論究竟他現在要放寬的是廚藝中的機組還是運轉中的機組每一個版本的提案文字通通不一樣法律的定義這麼不明確立法的品質這麼的粗糙但是剛剛在立委的提案說明裡面我通通沒有聽到\n\n5\n00:01:16,389 --> 00:01:19,191\n他們通通在講一些民間人士的意見請我們評論這個不叫做法案的詢答及討論那麼等一會如果按照今天的議程我們現在詢答完畢等一會如果要進入逐條審查的話我要求所有國民黨的提案委員必須仍要在現場要到場我們才審\n\n6\n00:01:38,373 --> 00:01:45,235\n不能說提案的委員提案說明也不說清楚審查法案人也不到場但現場通常是我們議長的委員這麼不負責任提了這些法案當中這麼多的問題涉及到核電廠老舊核電廠40年了還要去研議安全性的問題這非同小可\n\n7\n00:01:58,719 --> 00:02:04,022\n結果提案人說明也不說明等因為如果沒有大廠的話我拒絕審查這個提案前面我要跟主委討論的是因為我在看今天我剛剛講說這提案好幾個委員提案的版本裡面因為我一直在看他們的文字的使用因為我想了解究竟這版本當中的意頭\n\n8\n00:02:20,531 --> 00:02:22,914\n現在主要就是說我們台灣就三座核電廠核一、核二廠除役當中核三廠明年全部機組到期按照先行法規40年到期了如果要運轉必須向核安委提出申請而且要有審查審查要來通過了才可以換照\n\n9\n00:02:39,048 --> 00:02:50,798\n但是目前三個核電廠通通都已經超過研議的申請換照期限所以才會有今天我們在這裡國民黨的立委現在提的法案版本就是國民黨立委覺得他們比憲法還要大\n\n10\n00:02:55,422 --> 00:02:55,442\n案。\n\n11\n00:03:12,219 --> 00:03:35,700\n不是審一天、審兩天、審三個月半年可以審過的所以才有這個時間的年限但是我看到舉例羅志強委員提案版本當中他的這個文字主管機關不得以借其時限來拒絕發申請來我請問主委如果按照你對這個條文的理解這個條文規定它是適用運轉中機組還是除役中機組還是兩者皆是還是並不明確\n\n12\n00:03:39,163 --> 00:04:04,583\n應該是兩者皆是啦按照這個文字也就兩者皆是好再來我們來看王鴻薇委員提案的版本按照他的文字非經儲管機關審核其功率試驗合格並發給運轉執照不得正式運轉運轉執照之有限期限最長為40年請問按照王鴻薇委員提案的版本這個法規適用的是運轉中機組或者除役中機組或者兩者皆是\n\n13\n00:04:06,307 --> 00:04:19,436\n或者不明確對你認為不明確沒有錯如果按照剛剛羅志強委員提案的版本這個法案如果通過不是核三場研議而已喔核一、核二場通通可以再來申請換照研議喔主委這個法條的理解是不是這個樣子\n\n14\n00:04:28,308 --> 00:04:35,455\n所以說這個每個版本都不一樣如果按照羅志祥委員提案我就很擔心啦因為我們本委委員會也有合一合第二場所在地新北市的立法委員啦葉願志委員、何孟楷委員都是新北市的立法委員\n\n15\n00:04:46,326 --> 00:04:49,908\n合一合二廠要繼續研議現在光是一個現有的乾式儲存廠都還在卡關因為我們核廢料都不知道怎麼處理了你再研議下去只會堆更多的核廢料我們需要在新北再蓋新的乾式儲存廠\n\n16\n00:05:06,997 --> 00:05:09,819\n這個我希望這個國會頻道民眾都在看說大家要來看清楚你們選區的立法委員新北市的立委在立法院裡面現在如果支持羅志強委員提案版本也就是說他支持未來核一核二場都可以再來申請換照研議喔\n\n17\n00:05:27,834 --> 00:05:35,519\n這個是不是這樣的事實?那再來要討論的是,主委我非常關心的,因為我們現在的核電廠,最早核一廠1978年蓋的,最晚的核三廠1985年都在我出生之前就蓋了。那當時我們是我國還沒有環評法規,環評法是在1994年才通過的。\n\n18\n00:05:47,566 --> 00:05:52,430\n按照我們現在當代的觀念我們連蓋一座公園都要進行環評了為什麼這都有太多安全的問題也就是說台灣現行的三座核電廠有沒有哪一座有做過環評的評估沒有現行的核電廠通通沒有做過環評的評估\n\n19\n00:06:07,148 --> 00:06:09,851\n我們連蓋個公園都要環評評估蓋個核電廠難道不用嗎?其實我認為我們現在民進黨政府都是有愧於民眾的因為很多民眾可能都還不知道說原來這個核電廠根本當年沒做過環評的評估所以如果現在由立委要修法來討論核電廠還要演繹\n\n20\n00:06:28,462 --> 00:06:32,945\n我們現在法規要不要同步來處理呢我們現在現行的法規因為後來已經徵修過核管法如果現在要蓋一座新的核電廠要不要進行環評需要是需要的嘛但是如果他們現在國民黨委員提案的版本三座沒有做過環評而且都運作40年的老舊核電廠要繼續研議也許在下一個40年按照現在的法律要做環評嗎\n\n21\n00:06:55,919 --> 00:06:58,481\n目前對沒有錯所以我在講的嘛你要修法這些配套是不是通通一起要討論一起來處理\n\n22\n00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:08,041\n現在我們台灣你去問哪一個民眾可以接受蓋核電廠不需要做環評通通不能接受何況你演繹要等同於當作新核電廠來試值我強力的這樣主張絕對要再進行環評才可以再進行評估再來是最後我要請教主委是我們今天討論的因為關於核電現在有一些核融合新型核電小型核電廠的一些討論\n\n23\n00:07:31,448 --> 00:07:53,743\n有不同的意見這也是很多永和者他們提出來的論述我個人對於這個新型核電因為都還沒有運轉過我還是抱持高度的疑慮但我還是想要釐清清楚今天我們在這裡討論的是針對國民黨提案五個版本核管法第六條修法的討論核管法第六條有沒有去管理到新型的核電廠\n\n24\n00:07:55,768 --> 00:07:58,513\n是沒有的,核管法在處理的就是針對老舊核電廠這一個修法就是要對老舊核電廠做一個後門的放寬\n\n25\n00:08:06,229 --> 00:08:25,147\n所以新式核電的這個支持者我認為我雖然個人高度一律但認為可以討論可是要講清楚的是今天的這個修法完全跟新式的核能沒有關係今天的這個修法第六條的版本通通這個國民黨立委提案版本當中在處理的就只有已經運轉40年的老舊核電廠\n\n26\n00:08:29,531 --> 00:08:31,732\n那這個安全的問題是最重要第二個核廢料沒有處理沒有資格來討論核電廠的演繹任何人只要支持今天提案的版本剛剛我們已經確認了他有可能會涉及到核一、核二廠的演繹喔\n\n27\n00:08:44,739 --> 00:08:48,823\n那就是你們要支持在屏東有更多的核廢料嗎?你們要支持在新北市有更多的核廢料嗎?要討論法案不要在空中談台灣現在這一條法在處理的就是現行的核電廠它有所在地所以我認為要務實來評估謝謝好謝謝兩位\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n876\t5362\t謝謝主席我請何安慧請主委吳委員好\n11164\t17666\t主委好,剛剛前面葉元智委員問你說,主委今天是要審法條嗎?因為今天為什麼我們現在為什麼在這裡?是因為國民黨的委員提了五個提案的版本,要來修核桿法的第六條。剛剛葉元智委員問你說,主委請問你對哪一條有意見?\n33775\t36418\t顯然一人是委員連今天要修哪一條都不知道今天就只修一條就是第六條而已那在這裡我也想要向召委表示我的意見因為我們今天提案版本通通都是國民黨立委的版本那剛剛在前面提案說明裡面\n51354\t55737\t我一直在聽這些提案委員有沒有對於第六條裡面的內容等會主委會跟你討論究竟他現在要放寬的是廚藝中的機組還是運轉中的機組每一個版本的提案文字通通不一樣法律的定義這麼不明確立法的品質這麼的粗糙但是剛剛在立委的提案說明裡面我通通沒有聽到\n76389\t79191\t他們通通在講一些民間人士的意見請我們評論這個不叫做法案的詢答及討論那麼等一會如果按照今天的議程我們現在詢答完畢等一會如果要進入逐條審查的話我要求所有國民黨的提案委員必須仍要在現場要到場我們才審\n98373\t105235\t不能說提案的委員提案說明也不說清楚審查法案人也不到場但現場通常是我們議長的委員這麼不負責任提了這些法案當中這麼多的問題涉及到核電廠老舊核電廠40年了還要去研議安全性的問題這非同小可\n118719\t124022\t結果提案人說明也不說明等因為如果沒有大廠的話我拒絕審查這個提案前面我要跟主委討論的是因為我在看今天我剛剛講說這提案好幾個委員提案的版本裡面因為我一直在看他們的文字的使用因為我想了解究竟這版本當中的意頭\n140531\t142914\t現在主要就是說我們台灣就三座核電廠核一、核二廠除役當中核三廠明年全部機組到期按照先行法規40年到期了如果要運轉必須向核安委提出申請而且要有審查審查要來通過了才可以換照\n159048\t170798\t但是目前三個核電廠通通都已經超過研議的申請換照期限所以才會有今天我們在這裡國民黨的立委現在提的法案版本就是國民黨立委覺得他們比憲法還要大\n175422\t175442\t案。\n192219\t215700\t不是審一天、審兩天、審三個月半年可以審過的所以才有這個時間的年限但是我看到舉例羅志強委員提案版本當中他的這個文字主管機關不得以借其時限來拒絕發申請來我請問主委如果按照你對這個條文的理解這個條文規定它是適用運轉中機組還是除役中機組還是兩者皆是還是並不明確\n219163\t244583\t應該是兩者皆是啦按照這個文字也就兩者皆是好再來我們來看王鴻薇委員提案的版本按照他的文字非經儲管機關審核其功率試驗合格並發給運轉執照不得正式運轉運轉執照之有限期限最長為40年請問按照王鴻薇委員提案的版本這個法規適用的是運轉中機組或者除役中機組或者兩者皆是\n246307\t259436\t或者不明確對你認為不明確沒有錯如果按照剛剛羅志強委員提案的版本這個法案如果通過不是核三場研議而已喔核一、核二場通通可以再來申請換照研議喔主委這個法條的理解是不是這個樣子\n268308\t275455\t所以說這個每個版本都不一樣如果按照羅志祥委員提案我就很擔心啦因為我們本委委員會也有合一合第二場所在地新北市的立法委員啦葉願志委員、何孟楷委員都是新北市的立法委員\n286326\t289908\t合一合二廠要繼續研議現在光是一個現有的乾式儲存廠都還在卡關因為我們核廢料都不知道怎麼處理了你再研議下去只會堆更多的核廢料我們需要在新北再蓋新的乾式儲存廠\n306997\t309819\t這個我希望這個國會頻道民眾都在看說大家要來看清楚你們選區的立法委員新北市的立委在立法院裡面現在如果支持羅志強委員提案版本也就是說他支持未來核一核二場都可以再來申請換照研議喔\n327834\t335519\t這個是不是這樣的事實?那再來要討論的是,主委我非常關心的,因為我們現在的核電廠,最早核一廠1978年蓋的,最晚的核三廠1985年都在我出生之前就蓋了。那當時我們是我國還沒有環評法規,環評法是在1994年才通過的。\n347566\t352430\t按照我們現在當代的觀念我們連蓋一座公園都要進行環評了為什麼這都有太多安全的問題也就是說台灣現行的三座核電廠有沒有哪一座有做過環評的評估沒有現行的核電廠通通沒有做過環評的評估\n367148\t369851\t我們連蓋個公園都要環評評估蓋個核電廠難道不用嗎?其實我認為我們現在民進黨政府都是有愧於民眾的因為很多民眾可能都還不知道說原來這個核電廠根本當年沒做過環評的評估所以如果現在由立委要修法來討論核電廠還要演繹\n388462\t392945\t我們現在法規要不要同步來處理呢我們現在現行的法規因為後來已經徵修過核管法如果現在要蓋一座新的核電廠要不要進行環評需要是需要的嘛但是如果他們現在國民黨委員提案的版本三座沒有做過環評而且都運作40年的老舊核電廠要繼續研議也許在下一個40年按照現在的法律要做環評嗎\n415919\t418481\t目前 對 沒有錯所以我在講的嘛你要修法這些配套是不是通通一起要討論一起來處理\n424700\t428041\t現在我們台灣你去問哪一個民眾可以接受蓋核電廠不需要做環評通通不能接受何況你演繹要等同於當作新核電廠來試值我強力的這樣主張絕對要再進行環評才可以再進行評估再來是最後我要請教主委是我們今天討論的因為關於核電現在有一些核融合新型核電小型核電廠的一些討論\n451448\t473743\t有不同的意見 這也是很多永和者他們提出來的論述我個人對於這個新型核電因為都還沒有運轉過我還是抱持高度的疑慮但我還是想要釐清清楚今天我們在這裡討論的是針對國民黨提案五個版本核管法第六條修法的討論核管法第六條有沒有去管理到新型的核電廠\n475768\t478513\t是沒有的,核管法在處理的就是針對老舊核電廠這一個修法就是要對老舊核電廠做一個後門的放寬\n486229\t505147\t所以新式核電的這個支持者我認為我雖然個人高度一律但認為可以討論可是要講清楚的是今天的這個修法完全跟新式的核能沒有關係今天的這個修法第六條的版本通通這個國民黨立委提案版本當中在處理的就只有已經運轉40年的老舊核電廠\n509531\t511732\t那這個安全的問題是最重要第二個核廢料沒有處理沒有資格來討論核電廠的演繹任何人只要支持今天提案的版本剛剛我們已經確認了他有可能會涉及到核一、核二廠的演繹喔\n524739\t528823\t那就是你們要支持在屏東有更多的核廢料嗎?你們要支持在新北市有更多的核廢料嗎?要討論法案不要在空中談台灣現在這一條法在處理的就是現行的核電廠它有所在地所以我認為要務實來評估謝謝好謝謝兩位\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請何安慧請主委吳委員好\n主委好,剛剛前面葉元智委員問你說,主委今天是要審法條嗎?因為今天為什麼我們現在為什麼在這裡?是因為國民黨的委員提了五個提案的版本,要來修核桿法的第六條。剛剛葉元智委員問你說,主委請問你對哪一條有意見?\n顯然一人是委員連今天要修哪一條都不知道今天就只修一條就是第六條而已那在這裡我也想要向召委表示我的意見因為我們今天提案版本通通都是國民黨立委的版本那剛剛在前面提案說明裡面\n我一直在聽這些提案委員有沒有對於第六條裡面的內容等會主委會跟你討論究竟他現在要放寬的是廚藝中的機組還是運轉中的機組每一個版本的提案文字通通不一樣法律的定義這麼不明確立法的品質這麼的粗糙但是剛剛在立委的提案說明裡面我通通沒有聽到\n他們通通在講一些民間人士的意見請我們評論這個不叫做法案的詢答及討論那麼等一會如果按照今天的議程我們現在詢答完畢等一會如果要進入逐條審查的話我要求所有國民黨的提案委員必須仍要在現場要到場我們才審\n不能說提案的委員提案說明也不說清楚審查法案人也不到場但現場通常是我們議長的委員這麼不負責任提了這些法案當中這麼多的問題涉及到核電廠老舊核電廠40年了還要去研議安全性的問題這非同小可\n結果提案人說明也不說明等因為如果沒有大廠的話我拒絕審查這個提案前面我要跟主委討論的是因為我在看今天我剛剛講說這提案好幾個委員提案的版本裡面因為我一直在看他們的文字的使用因為我想了解究竟這版本當中的意頭\n現在主要就是說我們台灣就三座核電廠核一、核二廠除役當中核三廠明年全部機組到期按照先行法規40年到期了如果要運轉必須向核安委提出申請而且要有審查審查要來通過了才可以換照\n但是目前三個核電廠通通都已經超過研議的申請換照期限所以才會有今天我們在這裡國民黨的立委現在提的法案版本就是國民黨立委覺得他們比憲法還要大\n案。\n不是審一天、審兩天、審三個月半年可以審過的所以才有這個時間的年限但是我看到舉例羅志強委員提案版本當中他的這個文字主管機關不得以借其時限來拒絕發申請來我請問主委如果按照你對這個條文的理解這個條文規定它是適用運轉中機組還是除役中機組還是兩者皆是還是並不明確\n應該是兩者皆是啦按照這個文字也就兩者皆是好再來我們來看王鴻薇委員提案的版本按照他的文字非經儲管機關審核其功率試驗合格並發給運轉執照不得正式運轉運轉執照之有限期限最長為40年請問按照王鴻薇委員提案的版本這個法規適用的是運轉中機組或者除役中機組或者兩者皆是\n或者不明確對你認為不明確沒有錯如果按照剛剛羅志強委員提案的版本這個法案如果通過不是核三場研議而已喔核一、核二場通通可以再來申請換照研議喔主委這個法條的理解是不是這個樣子\n所以說這個每個版本都不一樣如果按照羅志祥委員提案我就很擔心啦因為我們本委委員會也有合一合第二場所在地新北市的立法委員啦葉願志委員、何孟楷委員都是新北市的立法委員\n合一合二廠要繼續研議現在光是一個現有的乾式儲存廠都還在卡關因為我們核廢料都不知道怎麼處理了你再研議下去只會堆更多的核廢料我們需要在新北再蓋新的乾式儲存廠\n這個我希望這個國會頻道民眾都在看說大家要來看清楚你們選區的立法委員新北市的立委在立法院裡面現在如果支持羅志強委員提案版本也就是說他支持未來核一核二場都可以再來申請換照研議喔\n這個是不是這樣的事實?那再來要討論的是,主委我非常關心的,因為我們現在的核電廠,最早核一廠1978年蓋的,最晚的核三廠1985年都在我出生之前就蓋了。那當時我們是我國還沒有環評法規,環評法是在1994年才通過的。\n按照我們現在當代的觀念我們連蓋一座公園都要進行環評了為什麼這都有太多安全的問題也就是說台灣現行的三座核電廠有沒有哪一座有做過環評的評估沒有現行的核電廠通通沒有做過環評的評估\n我們連蓋個公園都要環評評估蓋個核電廠難道不用嗎?其實我認為我們現在民進黨政府都是有愧於民眾的因為很多民眾可能都還不知道說原來這個核電廠根本當年沒做過環評的評估所以如果現在由立委要修法來討論核電廠還要演繹\n我們現在法規要不要同步來處理呢我們現在現行的法規因為後來已經徵修過核管法如果現在要蓋一座新的核電廠要不要進行環評需要是需要的嘛但是如果他們現在國民黨委員提案的版本三座沒有做過環評而且都運作40年的老舊核電廠要繼續研議也許在下一個40年按照現在的法律要做環評嗎\n目前 對 沒有錯所以我在講的嘛你要修法這些配套是不是通通一起要討論一起來處理\n現在我們台灣你去問哪一個民眾可以接受蓋核電廠不需要做環評通通不能接受何況你演繹要等同於當作新核電廠來試值我強力的這樣主張絕對要再進行環評才可以再進行評估再來是最後我要請教主委是我們今天討論的因為關於核電現在有一些核融合新型核電小型核電廠的一些討論\n有不同的意見 這也是很多永和者他們提出來的論述我個人對於這個新型核電因為都還沒有運轉過我還是抱持高度的疑慮但我還是想要釐清清楚今天我們在這裡討論的是針對國民黨提案五個版本核管法第六條修法的討論核管法第六條有沒有去管理到新型的核電廠\n是沒有的,核管法在處理的就是針對老舊核電廠這一個修法就是要對老舊核電廠做一個後門的放寬\n所以新式核電的這個支持者我認為我雖然個人高度一律但認為可以討論可是要講清楚的是今天的這個修法完全跟新式的核能沒有關係今天的這個修法第六條的版本通通這個國民黨立委提案版本當中在處理的就只有已經運轉40年的老舊核電廠\n那這個安全的問題是最重要第二個核廢料沒有處理沒有資格來討論核電廠的演繹任何人只要支持今天提案的版本剛剛我們已經確認了他有可能會涉及到核一、核二廠的演繹喔\n那就是你們要支持在屏東有更多的核廢料嗎?你們要支持在新北市有更多的核廢料嗎?要討論法案不要在空中談台灣現在這一條法在處理的就是現行的核電廠它有所在地所以我認為要務實來評估謝謝好謝謝兩位\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.876 --> 00:05.362\n謝謝主席我請何安慧請主委吳委員好\n\n00:11.164 --> 00:17.666\n主委好,剛剛前面葉元智委員問你說,主委今天是要審法條嗎?因為今天為什麼我們現在為什麼在這裡?是因為國民黨的委員提了五個提案的版本,要來修核桿法的第六條。剛剛葉元智委員問你說,主委請問你對哪一條有意見?\n\n00:33.775 --> 00:36.418\n顯然一人是委員連今天要修哪一條都不知道今天就只修一條就是第六條而已那在這裡我也想要向召委表示我的意見因為我們今天提案版本通通都是國民黨立委的版本那剛剛在前面提案說明裡面\n\n00:51.354 --> 00:55.737\n我一直在聽這些提案委員有沒有對於第六條裡面的內容等會主委會跟你討論究竟他現在要放寬的是廚藝中的機組還是運轉中的機組每一個版本的提案文字通通不一樣法律的定義這麼不明確立法的品質這麼的粗糙但是剛剛在立委的提案說明裡面我通通沒有聽到\n\n01:16.389 --> 01:19.191\n他們通通在講一些民間人士的意見請我們評論這個不叫做法案的詢答及討論那麼等一會如果按照今天的議程我們現在詢答完畢等一會如果要進入逐條審查的話我要求所有國民黨的提案委員必須仍要在現場要到場我們才審\n\n01:38.373 --> 01:45.235\n不能說提案的委員提案說明也不說清楚審查法案人也不到場但現場通常是我們議長的委員這麼不負責任提了這些法案當中這麼多的問題涉及到核電廠老舊核電廠40年了還要去研議安全性的問題這非同小可\n\n01:58.719 --> 02:04.022\n結果提案人說明也不說明等因為如果沒有大廠的話我拒絕審查這個提案前面我要跟主委討論的是因為我在看今天我剛剛講說這提案好幾個委員提案的版本裡面因為我一直在看他們的文字的使用因為我想了解究竟這版本當中的意頭\n\n02:20.531 --> 02:22.914\n現在主要就是說我們台灣就三座核電廠核一、核二廠除役當中核三廠明年全部機組到期按照先行法規40年到期了如果要運轉必須向核安委提出申請而且要有審查審查要來通過了才可以換照\n\n02:39.048 --> 02:50.798\n但是目前三個核電廠通通都已經超過研議的申請換照期限所以才會有今天我們在這裡國民黨的立委現在提的法案版本就是國民黨立委覺得他們比憲法還要大\n\n02:55.422 --> 02:55.442\n案。\n\n03:12.219 --> 03:35.700\n不是審一天、審兩天、審三個月半年可以審過的所以才有這個時間的年限但是我看到舉例羅志強委員提案版本當中他的這個文字主管機關不得以借其時限來拒絕發申請來我請問主委如果按照你對這個條文的理解這個條文規定它是適用運轉中機組還是除役中機組還是兩者皆是還是並不明確\n\n03:39.163 --> 04:04.583\n應該是兩者皆是啦按照這個文字也就兩者皆是好再來我們來看王鴻薇委員提案的版本按照他的文字非經儲管機關審核其功率試驗合格並發給運轉執照不得正式運轉運轉執照之有限期限最長為40年請問按照王鴻薇委員提案的版本這個法規適用的是運轉中機組或者除役中機組或者兩者皆是\n\n04:06.307 --> 04:19.436\n或者不明確對你認為不明確沒有錯如果按照剛剛羅志強委員提案的版本這個法案如果通過不是核三場研議而已喔核一、核二場通通可以再來申請換照研議喔主委這個法條的理解是不是這個樣子\n\n04:28.308 --> 04:35.455\n所以說這個每個版本都不一樣如果按照羅志祥委員提案我就很擔心啦因為我們本委委員會也有合一合第二場所在地新北市的立法委員啦葉願志委員、何孟楷委員都是新北市的立法委員\n\n04:46.326 --> 04:49.908\n合一合二廠要繼續研議現在光是一個現有的乾式儲存廠都還在卡關因為我們核廢料都不知道怎麼處理了你再研議下去只會堆更多的核廢料我們需要在新北再蓋新的乾式儲存廠\n\n05:06.997 --> 05:09.819\n這個我希望這個國會頻道民眾都在看說大家要來看清楚你們選區的立法委員新北市的立委在立法院裡面現在如果支持羅志強委員提案版本也就是說他支持未來核一核二場都可以再來申請換照研議喔\n\n05:27.834 --> 05:35.519\n這個是不是這樣的事實?那再來要討論的是,主委我非常關心的,因為我們現在的核電廠,最早核一廠1978年蓋的,最晚的核三廠1985年都在我出生之前就蓋了。那當時我們是我國還沒有環評法規,環評法是在1994年才通過的。\n\n05:47.566 --> 05:52.430\n按照我們現在當代的觀念我們連蓋一座公園都要進行環評了為什麼這都有太多安全的問題也就是說台灣現行的三座核電廠有沒有哪一座有做過環評的評估沒有現行的核電廠通通沒有做過環評的評估\n\n06:07.148 --> 06:09.851\n我們連蓋個公園都要環評評估蓋個核電廠難道不用嗎?其實我認為我們現在民進黨政府都是有愧於民眾的因為很多民眾可能都還不知道說原來這個核電廠根本當年沒做過環評的評估所以如果現在由立委要修法來討論核電廠還要演繹\n\n06:28.462 --> 06:32.945\n我們現在法規要不要同步來處理呢我們現在現行的法規因為後來已經徵修過核管法如果現在要蓋一座新的核電廠要不要進行環評需要是需要的嘛但是如果他們現在國民黨委員提案的版本三座沒有做過環評而且都運作40年的老舊核電廠要繼續研議也許在下一個40年按照現在的法律要做環評嗎\n\n06:55.919 --> 06:58.481\n目前對沒有錯所以我在講的嘛你要修法這些配套是不是通通一起要討論一起來處理\n\n07:04.700 --> 07:08.041\n現在我們台灣你去問哪一個民眾可以接受蓋核電廠不需要做環評通通不能接受何況你演繹要等同於當作新核電廠來試值我強力的這樣主張絕對要再進行環評才可以再進行評估再來是最後我要請教主委是我們今天討論的因為關於核電現在有一些核融合新型核電小型核電廠的一些討論\n\n07:31.448 --> 07:53.743\n有不同的意見這也是很多永和者他們提出來的論述我個人對於這個新型核電因為都還沒有運轉過我還是抱持高度的疑慮但我還是想要釐清清楚今天我們在這裡討論的是針對國民黨提案五個版本核管法第六條修法的討論核管法第六條有沒有去管理到新型的核電廠\n\n07:55.768 --> 07:58.513\n是沒有的,核管法在處理的就是針對老舊核電廠這一個修法就是要對老舊核電廠做一個後門的放寬\n\n08:06.229 --> 08:25.147\n所以新式核電的這個支持者我認為我雖然個人高度一律但認為可以討論可是要講清楚的是今天的這個修法完全跟新式的核能沒有關係今天的這個修法第六條的版本通通這個國民黨立委提案版本當中在處理的就只有已經運轉40年的老舊核電廠\n\n08:29.531 --> 08:31.732\n那這個安全的問題是最重要第二個核廢料沒有處理沒有資格來討論核電廠的演繹任何人只要支持今天提案的版本剛剛我們已經確認了他有可能會涉及到核一、核二廠的演繹喔\n\n08:44.739 --> 08:48.823\n那就是你們要支持在屏東有更多的核廢料嗎?你們要支持在新北市有更多的核廢料嗎?要討論法案不要在空中談台灣現在這一條法在處理的就是現行的核電廠它有所在地所以我認為要務實來評估謝謝好謝謝兩位\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.876,"end":5.362,"text":"謝謝主席我請何安慧請主委吳委員好"},{"start":11.164,"end":17.666,"text":"主委好,剛剛前面葉元智委員問你說,主委今天是要審法條嗎?因為今天為什麼我們現在為什麼在這裡?是因為國民黨的委員提了五個提案的版本,要來修核桿法的第六條。剛剛葉元智委員問你說,主委請問你對哪一條有意見?"},{"start":33.775,"end":36.418,"text":"顯然一人是委員連今天要修哪一條都不知道今天就只修一條就是第六條而已那在這裡我也想要向召委表示我的意見因為我們今天提案版本通通都是國民黨立委的版本那剛剛在前面提案說明裡面"},{"start":51.354,"end":55.737,"text":"我一直在聽這些提案委員有沒有對於第六條裡面的內容等會主委會跟你討論究竟他現在要放寬的是廚藝中的機組還是運轉中的機組每一個版本的提案文字通通不一樣法律的定義這麼不明確立法的品質這麼的粗糙但是剛剛在立委的提案說明裡面我通通沒有聽到"},{"start":76.389,"end":79.191,"text":"他們通通在講一些民間人士的意見請我們評論這個不叫做法案的詢答及討論那麼等一會如果按照今天的議程我們現在詢答完畢等一會如果要進入逐條審查的話我要求所有國民黨的提案委員必須仍要在現場要到場我們才審"},{"start":98.373,"end":105.235,"text":"不能說提案的委員提案說明也不說清楚審查法案人也不到場但現場通常是我們議長的委員這麼不負責任提了這些法案當中這麼多的問題涉及到核電廠老舊核電廠40年了還要去研議安全性的問題這非同小可"},{"start":118.719,"end":124.022,"text":"結果提案人說明也不說明等因為如果沒有大廠的話我拒絕審查這個提案前面我要跟主委討論的是因為我在看今天我剛剛講說這提案好幾個委員提案的版本裡面因為我一直在看他們的文字的使用因為我想了解究竟這版本當中的意頭"},{"start":140.531,"end":142.914,"text":"現在主要就是說我們台灣就三座核電廠核一、核二廠除役當中核三廠明年全部機組到期按照先行法規40年到期了如果要運轉必須向核安委提出申請而且要有審查審查要來通過了才可以換照"},{"start":159.048,"end":170.798,"text":"但是目前三個核電廠通通都已經超過研議的申請換照期限所以才會有今天我們在這裡國民黨的立委現在提的法案版本就是國民黨立委覺得他們比憲法還要大"},{"start":175.422,"end":175.442,"text":"案。"},{"start":192.219,"end":215.7,"text":"不是審一天、審兩天、審三個月半年可以審過的所以才有這個時間的年限但是我看到舉例羅志強委員提案版本當中他的這個文字主管機關不得以借其時限來拒絕發申請來我請問主委如果按照你對這個條文的理解這個條文規定它是適用運轉中機組還是除役中機組還是兩者皆是還是並不明確"},{"start":219.163,"end":244.583,"text":"應該是兩者皆是啦按照這個文字也就兩者皆是好再來我們來看王鴻薇委員提案的版本按照他的文字非經儲管機關審核其功率試驗合格並發給運轉執照不得正式運轉運轉執照之有限期限最長為40年請問按照王鴻薇委員提案的版本這個法規適用的是運轉中機組或者除役中機組或者兩者皆是"},{"start":246.307,"end":259.436,"text":"或者不明確對你認為不明確沒有錯如果按照剛剛羅志強委員提案的版本這個法案如果通過不是核三場研議而已喔核一、核二場通通可以再來申請換照研議喔主委這個法條的理解是不是這個樣子"},{"start":268.308,"end":275.455,"text":"所以說這個每個版本都不一樣如果按照羅志祥委員提案我就很擔心啦因為我們本委委員會也有合一合第二場所在地新北市的立法委員啦葉願志委員、何孟楷委員都是新北市的立法委員"},{"start":286.326,"end":289.908,"text":"合一合二廠要繼續研議現在光是一個現有的乾式儲存廠都還在卡關因為我們核廢料都不知道怎麼處理了你再研議下去只會堆更多的核廢料我們需要在新北再蓋新的乾式儲存廠"},{"start":306.997,"end":309.819,"text":"這個我希望這個國會頻道民眾都在看說大家要來看清楚你們選區的立法委員新北市的立委在立法院裡面現在如果支持羅志強委員提案版本也就是說他支持未來核一核二場都可以再來申請換照研議喔"},{"start":327.834,"end":335.519,"text":"這個是不是這樣的事實?那再來要討論的是,主委我非常關心的,因為我們現在的核電廠,最早核一廠1978年蓋的,最晚的核三廠1985年都在我出生之前就蓋了。那當時我們是我國還沒有環評法規,環評法是在1994年才通過的。"},{"start":347.566,"end":352.43,"text":"按照我們現在當代的觀念我們連蓋一座公園都要進行環評了為什麼這都有太多安全的問題也就是說台灣現行的三座核電廠有沒有哪一座有做過環評的評估沒有現行的核電廠通通沒有做過環評的評估"},{"start":367.148,"end":369.851,"text":"我們連蓋個公園都要環評評估蓋個核電廠難道不用嗎?其實我認為我們現在民進黨政府都是有愧於民眾的因為很多民眾可能都還不知道說原來這個核電廠根本當年沒做過環評的評估所以如果現在由立委要修法來討論核電廠還要演繹"},{"start":388.462,"end":392.945,"text":"我們現在法規要不要同步來處理呢我們現在現行的法規因為後來已經徵修過核管法如果現在要蓋一座新的核電廠要不要進行環評需要是需要的嘛但是如果他們現在國民黨委員提案的版本三座沒有做過環評而且都運作40年的老舊核電廠要繼續研議也許在下一個40年按照現在的法律要做環評嗎"},{"start":415.919,"end":418.481,"text":"目前 對 沒有錯所以我在講的嘛你要修法這些配套是不是通通一起要討論一起來處理"},{"start":424.7,"end":428.041,"text":"現在我們台灣你去問哪一個民眾可以接受蓋核電廠不需要做環評通通不能接受何況你演繹要等同於當作新核電廠來試值我強力的這樣主張絕對要再進行環評才可以再進行評估再來是最後我要請教主委是我們今天討論的因為關於核電現在有一些核融合新型核電小型核電廠的一些討論"},{"start":451.448,"end":473.743,"text":"有不同的意見 這也是很多永和者他們提出來的論述我個人對於這個新型核電因為都還沒有運轉過我還是抱持高度的疑慮但我還是想要釐清清楚今天我們在這裡討論的是針對國民黨提案五個版本核管法第六條修法的討論核管法第六條有沒有去管理到新型的核電廠"},{"start":475.768,"end":478.513,"text":"是沒有的,核管法在處理的就是針對老舊核電廠這一個修法就是要對老舊核電廠做一個後門的放寬"},{"start":486.229,"end":505.147,"text":"所以新式核電的這個支持者我認為我雖然個人高度一律但認為可以討論可是要講清楚的是今天的這個修法完全跟新式的核能沒有關係今天的這個修法第六條的版本通通這個國民黨立委提案版本當中在處理的就只有已經運轉40年的老舊核電廠"},{"start":509.531,"end":511.732,"text":"那這個安全的問題是最重要第二個核廢料沒有處理沒有資格來討論核電廠的演繹任何人只要支持今天提案的版本剛剛我們已經確認了他有可能會涉及到核一、核二廠的演繹喔"},{"start":524.739,"end":528.823,"text":"那就是你們要支持在屏東有更多的核廢料嗎?你們要支持在新北市有更多的核廢料嗎?要討論法案不要在空中談台灣現在這一條法在處理的就是現行的核電廠它有所在地所以我認為要務實來評估謝謝好謝謝兩位"}]}}}}