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00:00:47,048\n主委今天大家都在討論核電演繹的問題大概兩個層面一個叫做民意的變化第二個叫做國際的趨勢民意的變化我想剛剛王鴻薇委員講得非常清楚超過63%到64%左右的人民基本上是贊成用開放的態度來務實的處理核電演繹的問題過去曾經有一段時間確實反核聲音是非常大甚至都講出了我是人我反核我請問核安會主委現在如果60幾%的人希望核電演繹請問他們不是人嗎\n\n3\n00:00:50,215 --> 00:01:15,032\n當然是人啦是嘛對不對所以民意本來就是變化的所以換言之我們作為政治人物決定國家的政策當然要跟民意為依歸啊所以不要去講說這是這不應該是藍綠惡鬥的問題應該是務實面對國家挑戰的問題喔第二個我要講國際趨勢喔這個本期今天早上來出席在龜山我的選區一個算力中心的一個開幕典禮這個我本來要在那個地方待到典禮完成還要上去致詞\n\n4\n00:01:15,712 --> 00:01:31,129\n但是後來看時間實在來不及我只好提早離開為什麼呢因為我在下面跟他們聊天的時候他們的人直接講報告委員今天很高興你來但是我們這個算力中心順利運作我們缺電這個算力中心背後是美商在投資他們說連美國人都覺得很疑惑為什麼\n\n5\n00:01:32,951 --> 00:01:49,157\n為什麼當全世界需要AI發展AI發展電動車等等產業的時候台灣的能源政策如此僵化為什麼不務實地使用核能我聽到他們這樣講我就決定好吧我覺得今天的質詢好像還是比較重要所以我就提早離開了我們今天就舉幾個國際的例子來做一下討論先舉韓國的例子韓國總統尹錫悅2022年就任之後基本上就開始了大核電時代這個\n\n6\n00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:18,061\n以他的這個能源戰略來看2018年的時候核電佔比23.4%煤41.9天然氣26.8韓國再生源恐怕沒有我們走得快也沒有我們走得早但是淨零碳排是全世界共通面對的趨勢所以他們在2036年預計核電佔比提升到34%煤炭大幅下降到19%天然氣22%微幅下降\n\n7\n00:02:21,864 --> 00:02:39,260\n當然也要把再生能源的空間撐出來所以有30%的再生能源其實這樣子的一個能源戰略路徑其實就標準叫以核養綠務實減碳他為了把30%的再生能源的量擠出來他不得不依賴現有的核電甚至合理的來增加其實這不只是韓國嘛日本的核電廠研議了沒\n\n8\n00:02:39,901 --> 00:02:42,943\n韓國政府為什麼要決定把核電的占比再往上提高?第一蓋新機組的花費時間遠遠超過舊機組研議\n\n9\n00:02:58,832 --> 00:03:22,391\n這我們郭智慧部長也講了嘛至少6年而且還不進入人民反對這樣子的一個變化的因素。第二韓國如果發展AI產業資訊中心就是我剛講的算力中心還有電動車相關的產業不管怎麼樣電力需求必然大增。第三如果不使用核電必然要使用天然氣發電但天然氣的成本昂貴而且運輸是另外隱形的成本。\n\n10\n00:03:23,112 --> 00:03:41,322\n台灣跟韓國在產業上有若干的相似跟競爭之處,AI產業我們難道不跟他們競爭嗎?一定要拼的嘛,對不對?總不能輸掉下一個20年,下一個30年。我們也都想發展高比例的再生能源,他們有風場,我們也有風場。他們的土地面積還比我們大一些,發展太陽能也很有潛力。但即便是這樣子,他們也沒有捨棄核電不是嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:42,142 --> 00:03:56,730\n那我們今天如果故不知風非常僵化不是非常奇怪的事嗎?剛剛有很多人講40年的老舊機組好可怕好像會吃人的一樣請問主委這個美國總共有幾個核電反應爐?大概90幾座94座對不對?他們都運轉幾年了?超過40年大概有50幾座57座超過40年\n\n12\n00:04:07,489 --> 00:04:16,334\n已經有50幾座,超過40年對不對?我跟你講總共有85顆啊,達到40年的運轉期限之後,申請再研議,再研議幾年?再研議20年對不對?所以說94顆裡面有85顆啊,40年運轉期滿之後可以再搞20年啊,並且已經有61顆其實已經超過40年的運轉期限了,這叫國際趨勢啊。我們為什麼要對於科技,我們為什麼要對於技術那麼沒有信心呢?\n\n13\n00:04:33,783 --> 00:05:02,195\n我想全世界大概沒有幾個國家像台灣一樣還主動立法阻斷務實可用的發電工具啊我們不反對核安會秉持你的本位好好的嚴審把關這沒有問題嘛大家都不會反對不是嗎可是用一個法令自解自廢武功自己把手腳打斷然後說我們要迎向未來AI產業挑戰迎向未來淨零碳排的趨勢我覺得是笑話一則我希望政府在今天修法的時候可以用務實而且長遠的觀點來看待這件事情以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n289\t17302\t續庭委員謝謝主席 核安會主委有請請主委劉委員好\n18379\t47048\t主委今天大家都在討論核電演繹的問題大概兩個層面一個叫做民意的變化第二個叫做國際的趨勢民意的變化我想剛剛王鴻薇委員講得非常清楚超過63%到64%左右的人民基本上是贊成用開放的態度來務實的處理核電演繹的問題過去曾經有一段時間確實反核聲音是非常大甚至都講出了我是人我反核我請問核安會主委現在如果60幾%的人希望核電演繹請問他們不是人嗎\n50215\t75032\t當然是人啦是嘛 對不對所以民意本來就是變化的所以換言之我們作為政治人物決定國家的政策當然要跟民意為依歸啊所以不要去講說這是這不應該是藍綠惡鬥的問題應該是務實面對國家挑戰的問題喔第二個我要講國際趨勢喔這個本期今天早上來出席在龜山我的選區一個算力中心的一個開幕典禮這個我本來要在那個地方待到典禮完成還要上去致詞\n75712\t91129\t但是後來看時間實在來不及我只好提早離開為什麼呢因為我在下面跟他們聊天的時候他們的人直接講報告委員今天很高興你來但是我們這個算力中心順利運作我們缺電這個算力中心背後是美商在投資他們說連美國人都覺得很疑惑為什麼\n92951\t109157\t為什麼當全世界需要AI發展AI發展電動車等等產業的時候台灣的能源政策如此僵化為什麼不務實地使用核能我聽到他們這樣講我就決定好吧我覺得今天的質詢好像還是比較重要所以我就提早離開了我們今天就舉幾個國際的例子來做一下討論先舉韓國的例子韓國總統尹錫悅2022年就任之後基本上就開始了大核電時代這個\n116900\t138061\t以他的這個能源戰略來看2018年的時候核電佔比23.4%煤41.9天然氣26.8韓國再生源恐怕沒有我們走得快也沒有我們走得早但是淨零碳排是全世界共通面對的趨勢所以他們在2036年預計核電佔比提升到34%煤炭大幅下降到19%天然氣22%微幅下降\n141864\t159260\t當然也要把再生能源的空間撐出來所以有30%的再生能源其實這樣子的一個能源戰略路徑其實就標準叫以核養綠務實減碳他為了把30%的再生能源的量擠出來他不得不依賴現有的核電甚至合理的來增加其實這不只是韓國嘛日本的核電廠研議了沒\n159901\t162943\t韓國政府為什麼要決定把核電的占比再往上提高?第一蓋新機組的花費時間遠遠超過舊機組研議\n178832\t202391\t這我們郭智慧部長也講了嘛至少6年而且還不進入人民反對這樣子的一個變化的因素。第二韓國如果發展AI產業資訊中心就是我剛講的算力中心還有電動車相關的產業不管怎麼樣電力需求必然大增。第三如果不使用核電必然要使用天然氣發電但天然氣的成本昂貴而且運輸是另外隱形的成本。\n203112\t221322\t台灣跟韓國在產業上有若干的相似跟競爭之處,AI產業我們難道不跟他們競爭嗎?一定要拼的嘛,對不對?總不能輸掉下一個20年,下一個30年。我們也都想發展高比例的再生能源,他們有風場,我們也有風場。他們的土地面積還比我們大一些,發展太陽能也很有潛力。但即便是這樣子,他們也沒有捨棄核電不是嗎?\n222142\t236730\t那我們今天如果故不知風非常僵化不是非常奇怪的事嗎?剛剛有很多人講40年的老舊機組好可怕好像會吃人的一樣請問主委這個美國總共有幾個核電反應爐?大概90幾座94座對不對?他們都運轉幾年了?超過40年大概有50幾座57座超過40年\n247489\t256334\t已經有50幾座,超過40年對不對?我跟你講總共有85顆啊,達到40年的運轉期限之後,申請再研議,再研議幾年?再研議20年對不對?所以說94顆裡面有85顆啊,40年運轉期滿之後可以再搞20年啊,並且已經有61顆其實已經超過40年的運轉期限了,這叫國際趨勢啊。我們為什麼要對於科技,我們為什麼要對於技術那麼沒有信心呢?\n273783\t302195\t我想全世界大概沒有幾個國家像台灣一樣還主動立法阻斷務實可用的發電工具啊我們不反對核安會秉持你的本位好好的嚴審把關這沒有問題嘛大家都不會反對不是嗎可是用一個法令自解自廢武功自己把手腳打斷然後說我們要迎向未來AI產業挑戰迎向未來淨零碳排的趨勢我覺得是笑話一則我希望政府在今天修法的時候可以用務實而且長遠的觀點來看待這件事情以上謝謝\n","txt":"續庭委員謝謝主席 核安會主委有請請主委劉委員好\n主委今天大家都在討論核電演繹的問題大概兩個層面一個叫做民意的變化第二個叫做國際的趨勢民意的變化我想剛剛王鴻薇委員講得非常清楚超過63%到64%左右的人民基本上是贊成用開放的態度來務實的處理核電演繹的問題過去曾經有一段時間確實反核聲音是非常大甚至都講出了我是人我反核我請問核安會主委現在如果60幾%的人希望核電演繹請問他們不是人嗎\n當然是人啦是嘛 對不對所以民意本來就是變化的所以換言之我們作為政治人物決定國家的政策當然要跟民意為依歸啊所以不要去講說這是這不應該是藍綠惡鬥的問題應該是務實面對國家挑戰的問題喔第二個我要講國際趨勢喔這個本期今天早上來出席在龜山我的選區一個算力中心的一個開幕典禮這個我本來要在那個地方待到典禮完成還要上去致詞\n但是後來看時間實在來不及我只好提早離開為什麼呢因為我在下面跟他們聊天的時候他們的人直接講報告委員今天很高興你來但是我們這個算力中心順利運作我們缺電這個算力中心背後是美商在投資他們說連美國人都覺得很疑惑為什麼\n為什麼當全世界需要AI發展AI發展電動車等等產業的時候台灣的能源政策如此僵化為什麼不務實地使用核能我聽到他們這樣講我就決定好吧我覺得今天的質詢好像還是比較重要所以我就提早離開了我們今天就舉幾個國際的例子來做一下討論先舉韓國的例子韓國總統尹錫悅2022年就任之後基本上就開始了大核電時代這個\n以他的這個能源戰略來看2018年的時候核電佔比23.4%煤41.9天然氣26.8韓國再生源恐怕沒有我們走得快也沒有我們走得早但是淨零碳排是全世界共通面對的趨勢所以他們在2036年預計核電佔比提升到34%煤炭大幅下降到19%天然氣22%微幅下降\n當然也要把再生能源的空間撐出來所以有30%的再生能源其實這樣子的一個能源戰略路徑其實就標準叫以核養綠務實減碳他為了把30%的再生能源的量擠出來他不得不依賴現有的核電甚至合理的來增加其實這不只是韓國嘛日本的核電廠研議了沒\n韓國政府為什麼要決定把核電的占比再往上提高?第一蓋新機組的花費時間遠遠超過舊機組研議\n這我們郭智慧部長也講了嘛至少6年而且還不進入人民反對這樣子的一個變化的因素。第二韓國如果發展AI產業資訊中心就是我剛講的算力中心還有電動車相關的產業不管怎麼樣電力需求必然大增。第三如果不使用核電必然要使用天然氣發電但天然氣的成本昂貴而且運輸是另外隱形的成本。\n台灣跟韓國在產業上有若干的相似跟競爭之處,AI產業我們難道不跟他們競爭嗎?一定要拼的嘛,對不對?總不能輸掉下一個20年,下一個30年。我們也都想發展高比例的再生能源,他們有風場,我們也有風場。他們的土地面積還比我們大一些,發展太陽能也很有潛力。但即便是這樣子,他們也沒有捨棄核電不是嗎?\n那我們今天如果故不知風非常僵化不是非常奇怪的事嗎?剛剛有很多人講40年的老舊機組好可怕好像會吃人的一樣請問主委這個美國總共有幾個核電反應爐?大概90幾座94座對不對?他們都運轉幾年了?超過40年大概有50幾座57座超過40年\n已經有50幾座,超過40年對不對?我跟你講總共有85顆啊,達到40年的運轉期限之後,申請再研議,再研議幾年?再研議20年對不對?所以說94顆裡面有85顆啊,40年運轉期滿之後可以再搞20年啊,並且已經有61顆其實已經超過40年的運轉期限了,這叫國際趨勢啊。我們為什麼要對於科技,我們為什麼要對於技術那麼沒有信心呢?\n我想全世界大概沒有幾個國家像台灣一樣還主動立法阻斷務實可用的發電工具啊我們不反對核安會秉持你的本位好好的嚴審把關這沒有問題嘛大家都不會反對不是嗎可是用一個法令自解自廢武功自己把手腳打斷然後說我們要迎向未來AI產業挑戰迎向未來淨零碳排的趨勢我覺得是笑話一則我希望政府在今天修法的時候可以用務實而且長遠的觀點來看待這件事情以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.289 --> 00:17.302\n續庭委員謝謝主席核安會主委有請請主委劉委員好\n\n00:18.379 --> 00:47.048\n主委今天大家都在討論核電演繹的問題大概兩個層面一個叫做民意的變化第二個叫做國際的趨勢民意的變化我想剛剛王鴻薇委員講得非常清楚超過63%到64%左右的人民基本上是贊成用開放的態度來務實的處理核電演繹的問題過去曾經有一段時間確實反核聲音是非常大甚至都講出了我是人我反核我請問核安會主委現在如果60幾%的人希望核電演繹請問他們不是人嗎\n\n00:50.215 --> 01:15.032\n當然是人啦是嘛對不對所以民意本來就是變化的所以換言之我們作為政治人物決定國家的政策當然要跟民意為依歸啊所以不要去講說這是這不應該是藍綠惡鬥的問題應該是務實面對國家挑戰的問題喔第二個我要講國際趨勢喔這個本期今天早上來出席在龜山我的選區一個算力中心的一個開幕典禮這個我本來要在那個地方待到典禮完成還要上去致詞\n\n01:15.712 --> 01:31.129\n但是後來看時間實在來不及我只好提早離開為什麼呢因為我在下面跟他們聊天的時候他們的人直接講報告委員今天很高興你來但是我們這個算力中心順利運作我們缺電這個算力中心背後是美商在投資他們說連美國人都覺得很疑惑為什麼\n\n01:32.951 --> 01:49.157\n為什麼當全世界需要AI發展AI發展電動車等等產業的時候台灣的能源政策如此僵化為什麼不務實地使用核能我聽到他們這樣講我就決定好吧我覺得今天的質詢好像還是比較重要所以我就提早離開了我們今天就舉幾個國際的例子來做一下討論先舉韓國的例子韓國總統尹錫悅2022年就任之後基本上就開始了大核電時代這個\n\n01:56.900 --> 02:18.061\n以他的這個能源戰略來看2018年的時候核電佔比23.4%煤41.9天然氣26.8韓國再生源恐怕沒有我們走得快也沒有我們走得早但是淨零碳排是全世界共通面對的趨勢所以他們在2036年預計核電佔比提升到34%煤炭大幅下降到19%天然氣22%微幅下降\n\n02:21.864 --> 02:39.260\n當然也要把再生能源的空間撐出來所以有30%的再生能源其實這樣子的一個能源戰略路徑其實就標準叫以核養綠務實減碳他為了把30%的再生能源的量擠出來他不得不依賴現有的核電甚至合理的來增加其實這不只是韓國嘛日本的核電廠研議了沒\n\n02:39.901 --> 02:42.943\n韓國政府為什麼要決定把核電的占比再往上提高?第一蓋新機組的花費時間遠遠超過舊機組研議\n\n02:58.832 --> 03:22.391\n這我們郭智慧部長也講了嘛至少6年而且還不進入人民反對這樣子的一個變化的因素。第二韓國如果發展AI產業資訊中心就是我剛講的算力中心還有電動車相關的產業不管怎麼樣電力需求必然大增。第三如果不使用核電必然要使用天然氣發電但天然氣的成本昂貴而且運輸是另外隱形的成本。\n\n03:23.112 --> 03:41.322\n台灣跟韓國在產業上有若干的相似跟競爭之處,AI產業我們難道不跟他們競爭嗎?一定要拼的嘛,對不對?總不能輸掉下一個20年,下一個30年。我們也都想發展高比例的再生能源,他們有風場,我們也有風場。他們的土地面積還比我們大一些,發展太陽能也很有潛力。但即便是這樣子,他們也沒有捨棄核電不是嗎?\n\n03:42.142 --> 03:56.730\n那我們今天如果故不知風非常僵化不是非常奇怪的事嗎?剛剛有很多人講40年的老舊機組好可怕好像會吃人的一樣請問主委這個美國總共有幾個核電反應爐?大概90幾座94座對不對?他們都運轉幾年了?超過40年大概有50幾座57座超過40年\n\n04:07.489 --> 04:16.334\n已經有50幾座,超過40年對不對?我跟你講總共有85顆啊,達到40年的運轉期限之後,申請再研議,再研議幾年?再研議20年對不對?所以說94顆裡面有85顆啊,40年運轉期滿之後可以再搞20年啊,並且已經有61顆其實已經超過40年的運轉期限了,這叫國際趨勢啊。我們為什麼要對於科技,我們為什麼要對於技術那麼沒有信心呢?\n\n04:33.783 --> 05:02.195\n我想全世界大概沒有幾個國家像台灣一樣還主動立法阻斷務實可用的發電工具啊我們不反對核安會秉持你的本位好好的嚴審把關這沒有問題嘛大家都不會反對不是嗎可是用一個法令自解自廢武功自己把手腳打斷然後說我們要迎向未來AI產業挑戰迎向未來淨零碳排的趨勢我覺得是笑話一則我希望政府在今天修法的時候可以用務實而且長遠的觀點來看待這件事情以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.289,"end":17.302,"text":"續庭委員謝謝主席 核安會主委有請請主委劉委員好"},{"start":18.379,"end":47.048,"text":"主委今天大家都在討論核電演繹的問題大概兩個層面一個叫做民意的變化第二個叫做國際的趨勢民意的變化我想剛剛王鴻薇委員講得非常清楚超過63%到64%左右的人民基本上是贊成用開放的態度來務實的處理核電演繹的問題過去曾經有一段時間確實反核聲音是非常大甚至都講出了我是人我反核我請問核安會主委現在如果60幾%的人希望核電演繹請問他們不是人嗎"},{"start":50.215,"end":75.032,"text":"當然是人啦是嘛 對不對所以民意本來就是變化的所以換言之我們作為政治人物決定國家的政策當然要跟民意為依歸啊所以不要去講說這是這不應該是藍綠惡鬥的問題應該是務實面對國家挑戰的問題喔第二個我要講國際趨勢喔這個本期今天早上來出席在龜山我的選區一個算力中心的一個開幕典禮這個我本來要在那個地方待到典禮完成還要上去致詞"},{"start":75.712,"end":91.129,"text":"但是後來看時間實在來不及我只好提早離開為什麼呢因為我在下面跟他們聊天的時候他們的人直接講報告委員今天很高興你來但是我們這個算力中心順利運作我們缺電這個算力中心背後是美商在投資他們說連美國人都覺得很疑惑為什麼"},{"start":92.951,"end":109.157,"text":"為什麼當全世界需要AI發展AI發展電動車等等產業的時候台灣的能源政策如此僵化為什麼不務實地使用核能我聽到他們這樣講我就決定好吧我覺得今天的質詢好像還是比較重要所以我就提早離開了我們今天就舉幾個國際的例子來做一下討論先舉韓國的例子韓國總統尹錫悅2022年就任之後基本上就開始了大核電時代這個"},{"start":116.9,"end":138.061,"text":"以他的這個能源戰略來看2018年的時候核電佔比23.4%煤41.9天然氣26.8韓國再生源恐怕沒有我們走得快也沒有我們走得早但是淨零碳排是全世界共通面對的趨勢所以他們在2036年預計核電佔比提升到34%煤炭大幅下降到19%天然氣22%微幅下降"},{"start":141.864,"end":159.26,"text":"當然也要把再生能源的空間撐出來所以有30%的再生能源其實這樣子的一個能源戰略路徑其實就標準叫以核養綠務實減碳他為了把30%的再生能源的量擠出來他不得不依賴現有的核電甚至合理的來增加其實這不只是韓國嘛日本的核電廠研議了沒"},{"start":159.901,"end":162.943,"text":"韓國政府為什麼要決定把核電的占比再往上提高?第一蓋新機組的花費時間遠遠超過舊機組研議"},{"start":178.832,"end":202.391,"text":"這我們郭智慧部長也講了嘛至少6年而且還不進入人民反對這樣子的一個變化的因素。第二韓國如果發展AI產業資訊中心就是我剛講的算力中心還有電動車相關的產業不管怎麼樣電力需求必然大增。第三如果不使用核電必然要使用天然氣發電但天然氣的成本昂貴而且運輸是另外隱形的成本。"},{"start":203.112,"end":221.322,"text":"台灣跟韓國在產業上有若干的相似跟競爭之處,AI產業我們難道不跟他們競爭嗎?一定要拼的嘛,對不對?總不能輸掉下一個20年,下一個30年。我們也都想發展高比例的再生能源,他們有風場,我們也有風場。他們的土地面積還比我們大一些,發展太陽能也很有潛力。但即便是這樣子,他們也沒有捨棄核電不是嗎?"},{"start":222.142,"end":236.73,"text":"那我們今天如果故不知風非常僵化不是非常奇怪的事嗎?剛剛有很多人講40年的老舊機組好可怕好像會吃人的一樣請問主委這個美國總共有幾個核電反應爐?大概90幾座94座對不對?他們都運轉幾年了?超過40年大概有50幾座57座超過40年"},{"start":247.489,"end":256.334,"text":"已經有50幾座,超過40年對不對?我跟你講總共有85顆啊,達到40年的運轉期限之後,申請再研議,再研議幾年?再研議20年對不對?所以說94顆裡面有85顆啊,40年運轉期滿之後可以再搞20年啊,並且已經有61顆其實已經超過40年的運轉期限了,這叫國際趨勢啊。我們為什麼要對於科技,我們為什麼要對於技術那麼沒有信心呢?"},{"start":273.783,"end":302.195,"text":"我想全世界大概沒有幾個國家像台灣一樣還主動立法阻斷務實可用的發電工具啊我們不反對核安會秉持你的本位好好的嚴審把關這沒有問題嘛大家都不會反對不是嗎可是用一個法令自解自廢武功自己把手腳打斷然後說我們要迎向未來AI產業挑戰迎向未來淨零碳排的趨勢我覺得是笑話一則我希望政府在今天修法的時候可以用務實而且長遠的觀點來看待這件事情以上謝謝"}]}}}}