{"date":"2024-09-24","影片長度":"00:16:57","end_time":"2024-09-24T11:18:41+08:00","type":"Clip","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154868","gazette":{"lineno":596,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（11時2分）謝謝院長，麻煩請行政院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：院長好。我接下來要質詢的題目因為涵蓋的部會非常多，所以請各部會首長坐在位置上仔細聆聽，然後看簡報，這樣子就可以。","院長，這是去年6月份行政院的新聞稿標題，政府希望藉由提高軍公教的待遇帶動民間企業跟進，全民共享經濟成長的果實，我們文化健康站、巷弄長照站的照服員從2019年調薪到三萬三之後，已經整整五年沒有再調薪了，所以我希望可以立即檢討加薪的問題，因為這攸關上萬名照服員的權益。","還有就是有關於各部會所主管的法人、基金會以及公司是不是有依照行政院政策方向落實調薪？這是我調查各部會的情形，有很多部會的法人、基金會或者是公司根本就沒有調薪，甚至有些法人沒有調薪的理由竟然是因為績效不好，我覺得他們完全搞錯政府的方向，政府是希望帶動民間企業跟進的，是希望調整整個薪資的水平，希望透過調整、提升整個薪資架構，讓全民共享經濟成長的果實，所以我們在這裡討論的並不是績效的問題。","接下來我們特別看一下勞動部的部分，因為勞動部只有1個法人而已，今年6月份本席特別和衛環委員會的同仁一起去考察重建之家的時候，我在現場已經有特別提出、也特別提醒董事長，現在兼任的董事長也就是職安署的署長，本席特別提醒他這個問題，董事長還當著大家的面很大聲的同意，我不知道到底他回去是怎麼回報部長這個問題，為什麼這個法人到現在遲遲都沒有調薪？我想政府想要提高勞工薪資水平的美意，勞動部其實責無旁貸，有一個帶頭的作用，這樣子會比較有說服力，如果有更多部會的這些法人單位，大家都不願意為勞工加薪的話，這樣怎麼帶動整個民間的企業去加薪、去跟進？我相信我們勞動部長一定是很願意來做領頭羊，只是我不太理解你們的董事長回去怎麼跟您報告的，所以今天勞動部在這裡失去了一個帶頭的機會，而且我還有一些資料現在質詢沒有秀出來，這些部會裡面有很多像是勞務承攬、計畫用人的方式，長期聘用臨時人員，這些臨時人員的薪資都相當低，我們很多部會也都沒有為他們加薪，我在這邊特別花時間整理，讓院長了解一下這個情形。","院長，我希望這些單位大家都可以馬上來檢討，第一、明年軍公教調薪3%，這些單位都可以跟進調薪3%；第二個訴求，今年沒有調整4%的這些單位，特別是有人拍胸脯保證的應該要馬上調整，而且要回溯到今年1月1日。我提出的這些訴求，請教院長不知道能不能同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，各部會所屬的相關法人，它的性質或許都有所不同，所以調薪的狀況也是不相同的，但是在行政院公布了調薪的結構之後，我覺得我們不僅是軍公教人員調薪，也希望民間的企業也一併能夠把薪資往上調。所以在這個情況底下，我認為即使它性質不相同，還是要盡自己經營的績效能夠往上調，不過勞動部部長剛剛跟我說，它所屬的這些都已經調了，是不是請勞動部說明一下它的性質，再請人總說明一下？"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，謝謝委員關心，我們已經決定在今年10月1號會召開董事會，就是預防重建中心，董事長已經有跟我報告了，我們也讓他要在10月1號召開董事會，明年1月1號開始會調薪4%。"],["陳委員瑩：明年1月1號？"],["何部長佩珊：對，而且會在明年……"],["陳委員瑩：所以這個差距就是我為什麼會有第二個訴求，因為這個本來今年可能7月就可以做的事情，結果拖到明年，拖到明年之後，他們等於喪失了今年加薪的權利，我想這個部分還是請你們再回去好好地重新檢討研議一下，畢竟你們有帶頭的作用。"],["何部長佩珊：我知道委員在關切去年有調而我們未調的狀況，我們在明年年中也會再一併補足3%。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝，沒關係，我們後續……"],["卓院長榮泰：請人總回答一下，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["陳委員瑩：麻煩請簡短。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝委員，我想剛才委員關心的大概有幾個不同的組織型態，一個是政府捐助20%以上的財團法人，它整個調薪的機制要經過董事會通過以後再報主管機關核准，事實上它在調薪上有一定的一個遊戲規則；另外，關於事業機構的話，就是跟它的經營績效是相關的，事實上有時候政府是調4%，事業的經營績效如果好的話，它是可以調到5%、6%之類的，因為它是績效導向的。所以不同的組織型態，它在調薪的部分是看績效，或者看它的公司章程直接來做一個不一樣的規範。"],["陳委員瑩：好，這個可以理解，總之，我想今天這個主題也是給大家刺激一下、提醒一下，讓我們來做一個檢討、讓政府來帶頭所屬的這些單位，好嗎？謝謝。","我接下來要請原民會主委，院長也請留步，其他可以請回。這個問題我想大家傷腦筋很久了，但其實它沒有那麼複雜，真的。院長，禁伐補償的法定支出本來就會依規定核發，但是因為有立委覺得明年的禁伐補償應該要編列到42億元，所以當他們看到預算書之後，覺得怎麼只有27億元，加減乘除算一算，少了15億，所以那天就衝到臺前，罵了院長，也罵了原民會主委。","我幫大家整理一下，主委，這個是禁伐補償歷年經費核發的資料，除了第一年剛開始之外，過去的7年每年都是公務預算跟基金共同支應，在去年基金的支出甚至比公務預算還要多，我們其實只要把過去的資料攤開來看一下，就一清二楚了。主委，所以這個過去核發禁伐補償的經費，是不是就像本席所說的，循往例辦理？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，對。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我想這段時間有很多的溝通，也克服了很多的困難，我是不是請主委也跟大家報告一下，這段時間，當然我們委員也很努力，你們這邊目前努力溝通的過程、經過及進度如何？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，禁伐補償是從105年就開始補償我們原住民的林農，從2萬到3萬，到今年6月3號大院通過。"],["陳委員瑩：這些調整也是因應我們物價通膨，這是一個主要的原因嘛，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是，因為今年6月大院通過的是1公頃要變6萬，那麼它本來要變成從21億最少要增加到45億左右。明年會裡面我們編了28億，原則上我們的基金還可以調度大概17億左右，所以應該是夠發放明年的禁伐補償。"],["陳委員瑩：但我比較關心的是，就這個部分，你們是不是有跟主計那邊討論過？最後也是要問一下院長這邊的態度，因為眾說紛紜，主計的部分，主委是不是也有對過了？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個跟委員報告，剛剛主委說的是，現在針對今年的預算，他有他的想法，但是我們要回歸到預算制定、編列的原則上面來看。行政院制定、編列預算，立法院審議預算，有任何增加的預算、新的增加預算，都必須要有新的財源。如果因為立法院一個審議的決議或是一個建議，就把預算整個提升，行政院沒有找到相同的財源的話，對於行政院預算的完整性，是不合憲法規定的，我們是在這個原則底下辦理。但是另外一個方式，就是由3萬調整到6萬，這種百分之百的調幅，在任何實際的政策跟補貼政策當中都少見。","所以今年我們在大院審查的過程當中曾經提出，如果能夠由3萬調整到4萬，行政院願意來吸收這4萬，在預算裡面表現，但是在審查的過程當中卻沒有被重視，然而行政院還是負責任地依照過去的承諾編了4萬，這4萬之後原民會就必須要在內部做調整，至於做怎麼樣的調整，這是原民會內部的作業，因為我們要維持的是行政院制定跟編列預算的完整性。如果此例一開，其他各部會都用這種方式，透過委員的方式來增加預算，那明年、往後的預算，將無可控制，所以我們希望兩院之間要有討論的空間，而不是用一個表決的方式就把預算提高。如果這個是從30萬提高到60萬，300萬提高到600萬，行政院也無法接受。"],["陳委員瑩：好，這個我們可以充分理解，因為畢竟是大水庫的概念，我們的總預算是固定的，所以現在要回到主委這邊，剛剛院長有很明確地表示了，就是不足的部分，原民會自己內部要去做調整，這個調整的部分，不曉得主委這邊有沒有遇到什麼困難，或者是有做到什麼樣的進度？或者是你們還需要更多的時間再做討論？我想今天就藉著大院總質詢把話講清楚，因為外面整天大家打來打去，當然我跟伍麗華都是箭靶啦！但是我們自己也是提案人，我要在這裡重申我的立場，我們還是跟原住民站在一起，我不管這中間誰說了什麼，我們是原住民選出來的民意代表，就是跟原住民站在一起，所以我要給主委加油。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，您跟伍麗華委員長期為原住民發言爭取權益，大家都看到了，我也願意在這個領域當中能夠跟委員好好的來檢討，甚至我們好好來制定對原住民最大的權利。但是如果在一般原來的原民會預算當中，卻占據了40%的預算拿去做單一補助的話，那對其他的原住民權益上是有所不當的，我們當時的理由是這個樣子，但是……"],["陳委員瑩：這個我們可以理解，但是主委經過這段時間的一些調整還有跟主計的溝通，你們是不是還差最後一步要再跟院長這邊來做最後的確認跟報告進度，我想如果他們試算出來是許可的，那是不是院長也可以用您當初秉持的柔軟的心來同意他們的編列？而且我想我見證了最早行政院在討論說要不要提覆議，院長講了一句話說：「我實在是不忍心。」我知道院長真的對原住民很好，所以我想釋憲的部分應該也是泛指有很多的肉桶法案，而不是針對禁伐補償，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不希望預算的編列是用這樣的方式，這個是不合法、不合憲的，我們希望大家能夠很理性的來討論，這一筆預算在原民會裡面，當初我們希望原民會應該就原民會裡面業務的優先順序來做最好的選擇。"],["陳委員瑩：對，我想是這樣，主委，你把話也講出去了，那到底這筆預算你要怎麼去調整處理，有沒有窒礙難行的地方？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，因為這個要發放也是明年9月底才會發放，所以我們還有時間，我們願意來拜託院裡面來給予協助。當然我絕對相信我們的政府是關心、是愛原住民的，因為我們的預算在今年度已經成長了13%，優於其他的部會，這個部分我想我們還是繼續努力來爭取。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：所以現在說不行都是太早，說沒有都太早嘛！"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["陳委員瑩：對啦！所以大家就先不要在那裡製造很多奇奇怪怪的新聞，我們就給他們一點時間做溝通，把預算補齊，我們為你們加油，這樣子好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝……"],["陳委員瑩：好，不要把原住民的禁伐補償當作藉口退回總預算，我們還有很多救命錢在裡面啊！這是一樣的道理嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是的、是的。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第13號的洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","張啓楷","陳培瑜","羅智強","林國成","陳瑩","洪孟楷","黃秀芳","謝龍介","李柏毅","賴士葆","許智傑","黃健豪","陳素月"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-09-24"],"gazette_id":"1137501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137501_00003","1137501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n行政院院長施政報告並備質詢─ 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\"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 457.188, \"end\": 457.588, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 457.588, \"end\": 458.008, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 458.008, \"end\": 458.848, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 458.848, \"end\": 459.048, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 459.048, \"end\": 459.208, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 459.208, \"end\": 459.369, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 459.369, \"end\": 460.989, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 460.989, \"end\": 461.969, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 461.969, \"end\": 462.369, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 462.369, \"end\": 462.509, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 462.509, \"end\": 463.809, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 463.809, \"end\": 464.149, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 464.149, \"end\": 464.469, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 464.469, \"end\": 464.709, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 464.709, \"end\": 465.09, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 465.09, \"end\": 465.21, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 465.21, \"end\": 465.41, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 465.41, \"end\": 465.51, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 465.51, \"end\": 465.85, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 465.85, \"end\": 465.87, \"score\": 0.839}]}, {\"start\": 471.222, \"end\": 488.258, \"text\": \"這個問題 我想大家商量已經很久了但其實它沒有那麼複雜啦 真的院長 這個禁法補償的這個法定支出本來就會依規定核發那但是因為有立委覺得呢就是明年的這個禁法補償應該要編列到42億元\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 471.222, \"end\": 471.342, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 471.342, \"end\": 472.042, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 472.042, \"end\": 472.183, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 472.183, \"end\": 472.383, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 472.383, \"end\": 472.543, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 472.543, \"end\": 472.723, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 472.723, \"end\": 472.943, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 472.943, \"end\": 473.224, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"久\", \"start\": 473.224, \"end\": 473.464, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 473.464, \"end\": 474.064, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 474.064, \"end\": 474.225, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 474.225, \"end\": 474.485, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 474.485, \"end\": 474.645, \"score\": 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\"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 483.774, \"end\": 484.034, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 484.034, \"end\": 484.194, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 484.194, \"end\": 484.694, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 484.694, \"end\": 484.875, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 484.875, \"end\": 485.776, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 485.776, \"end\": 485.916, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 485.916, \"end\": 486.736, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 486.736, \"end\": 486.957, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 486.957, \"end\": 487.457, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 487.457, \"end\": 487.898, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"禁\", \"start\": 487.898, \"end\": 488.038, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 488.038, \"end\": 488.058, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"償\"}, 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--> 00:01:11,163\n院長好我接下來要質詢的題目因為涵蓋的部會非常多所以我想就請各部會首長就坐在位置上仔細聆聽然後看簡報這樣子就可以院長這是去年6月份行政院的新聞稿標題政府希望藉由提高軍公教的待遇帶動民間企業跟進全民共享經濟成長的果實\n\n3\n00:01:13,444 --> 00:01:28,290\n我們文化健康站巷弄長照站的趙服員從2019年調薪到三萬三之後已經整整五年沒有再調薪了所以我希望可以立即檢討加薪的問題因為這有關上萬名我們這個趙服員的權益那麼\n\n4\n00:01:35,172 --> 00:02:02,708\n還有就是有關於各部會所主管的法人基金會以及公司是不是有依照行政院政策方向落實調薪這是我調查各部會的情形那有很多部會的法人基金會或者是公司公司他們根本就沒有調薪那甚至在有些法人沒有調薪的理由呢竟然是因為績效不好\n\n5\n00:02:03,368 --> 00:02:32,568\n那我覺得他們完全搞錯政府的方向政府是希望帶動民間企業跟進的是希望調整整個薪資的水平那希望透過調整提升整個薪資架構讓全民共享經濟成長的果實所以我們在這裡討論的並不是一個績效的問題那麼接下來我特別在我們看一下勞動部的部分\n\n6\n00:02:33,588 --> 00:02:56,816\n因為勞動部只有一個法人而已那今年6月份本席特別和整個和我們未還委員會的這個同仁一起去考察重建之家的時候我在現場已經有特別提出也特別提醒董事長也就是現在這個兼任董事長就是治安署的署長\n\n7\n00:02:58,377 --> 00:03:19,039\n我特別提醒他這個問題那這個董事長還當著大家的面很大聲的來同意那我不知道就是說到底他是怎麼回去回報部長這個問題為什麼這個法人到現在遲遲都沒有調心所以我想\n\n8\n00:03:21,301 --> 00:03:45,517\n政府想要提高這個勞工的薪資水平的美意勞動部其實責無旁貸有一個帶頭的作用所以這樣子會比較有說服力那麼如果有更多的部會的這些法人單位如果大家都不願意為這個勞工加薪的話那這樣怎麼去帶動整個民間的企業去加薪去跟進那我相信我們勞動部長\n\n9\n00:03:46,718 --> 00:04:10,866\n他一定是很願意來做這個領頭羊只是說我不太理解你們的董事長回去怎麼跟您報告的所以今天勞動部在這裡失去了一個帶頭的機會而且這些資料我還有一些資料我在質詢我現在沒有秀出來這些部會裡面有很多是像勞務承攬還有計劃用人的方式他長期聘用這個臨時人員\n\n10\n00:04:12,626 --> 00:04:32,446\n這些臨時人員的薪資都相當低我們很多的部會也都沒有為他們加薪我在這邊特別花時間整理讓院長瞭解一下這個情形所以院長我希望這些單位我們大家可以馬上來檢討第一明年軍公教調薪3%\n\n11\n00:04:33,827 --> 00:04:54,771\n這些單位都可以跟進調薪3%第二個訴求就是這些單位今年沒有調整4%的特別是有人拍胸脯保證的那個應該要馬上調整而且要回溯到今年1月1日我想就提出這些訴求請教院長不知道能不能同意\n\n12\n00:04:56,069 --> 00:05:11,641\n好謝謝委員各部會所屬相關的法人他的性質或許都有所不同所以條新的狀況是不相同的但是在行政院公佈了這個條新的結構之後\n\n13\n00:05:13,402 --> 00:05:32,355\n我覺得我們不僅是公務人員、軍公教人員調薪我們也希望民間的企業也一併能夠把薪資往上調所以在這個情況底下我還是認為即使他性質不相同還是要盡自己的經營的績效能夠往上調不過據知這個勞動部剛剛部長跟我說他所屬的這些都已經調了\n\n14\n00:05:38,437 --> 00:05:51,343\n委員關心我們已經決定那個在今年11月1號會召開董事會就重建預防重建中心董事會已經有跟我報告了那麼我們也讓他要在11月1號召開董事會對明年1月1號開始會挑釁4%\n\n15\n00:05:54,229 --> 00:06:22,388\n從明年1月1號開始對所以這個差距這就是我為什麼會有第二個訴求那因為這個本來今年可能7月就可以做的事情那結果拖到明年那拖到明年之後他們等於喪失了今年加薪的這個權利我想這個部分我還是請你們再回去好好的再重新檢討研議一下畢竟這個你們有帶頭的作用\n\n16\n00:06:23,305 --> 00:06:52,758\n好我知道委員在關切前面去年有調而我們未調的狀況那麼我們會在明年年中也會再一併補足3%好謝謝那沒關係謝謝我們後續主任總回答一下好不好再說謝謝委員我想剛才委員關心的大概有幾個不同的組織形態一個是政府兼注20%以上財團法人他整個調薪的機制要經過董事會通過以後再\n\n17\n00:06:53,956 --> 00:07:18,486\n主管機關核准那事實上他在調薪他有一定的一個遊戲規則另外關於事業機構的話就是跟他的經營績效是相關的事實上有時候政府是調4%那事業的經營績效如果好的話他是可以調到5%6%之類的因為他是以百那個績效導向的所以不同的組織形態他在調薪的部分是\n\n18\n00:07:19,045 --> 00:07:45,870\n有看績效或者看他的公司章程直接來做一個不一樣的規範好這個可以理解那總之我想今天這個主題也是給大家刺激一下提醒一下那我們來做一個檢討讓政府來帶頭好嗎所屬的這些單位好謝謝那我接下來要請這個園民會主委院長也請留步其他可以請回\n\n19\n00:07:51,222 --> 00:08:08,258\n這個問題我想大家商量已經很久了但其實它沒有那麼複雜啦真的院長這個禁法補償的這個法定支出本來就會依規定核發那但是因為有立委覺得呢就是明年的這個禁法補償應該要編列到42億元\n\n20\n00:08:12,782 --> 00:08:27,669\n所以當他們看到預算書之後覺得說怎麼只有27億元加減乘除算一算少了15億所以那天就衝到台前罵了院長也罵了原民會主委那我幫大家整理一下\n\n21\n00:08:28,729 --> 00:08:54,117\n各位這個是進法補償歷年的經費核發的資料除了第一年剛開始之外過去的七年每年都是公務預算跟基金共同支應甚至在去年的基金的支出比公務預算是還要多的我們其實只要把過去的資料我們就攤開來看一下就一清二楚了\n\n22\n00:08:56,619 --> 00:08:56,780\n對公務員報告對\n\n23\n00:09:06,890 --> 00:09:24,958\n我想這段時間有很多的溝通也克服很多的困難我是不是請主委也跟大家報告一下就是說你們這段時間當然我們委員也很努力你們這邊努力溝通的過程經過進度目前如何\n\n24\n00:09:26,312 --> 00:09:52,285\n跟委員報告這個進華補償是從105年開始就來這個做就是補償我們的原住民的林農從2萬到3萬到今年的這個6月3號我們大宴通過那這邊的這些調整也是因應我們的物價通膨的一個是主要的原因是\n\n25\n00:09:53,706 --> 00:09:53,846\n主席\n\n26\n00:10:26,252 --> 00:10:43,722\n應該是夠花放明年的進華補償我比較關心的是就是說這個部分你們是不是有跟主席那邊有討論過然後最後也是要問一下院長這邊的態度因為眾說紛雲那那個主席的部分是不是主委那邊也有對過了\n\n27\n00:10:45,042 --> 00:11:06,625\n這個跟委員報告剛剛主委他說的是說現在針對今年的預算他有他的想法但是我們要回歸到預算制定編列的原則上面來看行政院制定編列預算立法院審議這個預算有任何增加預算新的增加預算都必須要有新的裁員\n\n28\n00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:08,090\n李卓人議員\n\n29\n00:11:26,952 --> 00:11:43,607\n另外一個方式就是由3萬調整到6萬這種百分之百的條幅在任何的實際政策跟補貼政策當中都少見都少見所以今年我們在大院審查過程當中我們曾經提出說如果能夠\n\n30\n00:11:44,528 --> 00:11:59,035\n由3萬調整到4萬行政院願意來吸收這樣的4萬在預算裡面表現但是在審查過程當中卻沒有被重視因此但是行政院還是負責任的依照過去的承諾我們編了4萬這4萬之後\n\n31\n00:12:02,165 --> 00:12:02,185\n委員長陳瑩\n\n32\n00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:38,346\n各部會都用這種方式通過委員方式來增加預算那明年往後的預算將無可控制所以我們希望兩院之間要這種討論的空間而不是用一個表決的方式就把預算提高那如果這個是從30萬提高到60萬300萬提高到600萬行政院也無法接受\n\n33\n00:12:39,701 --> 00:13:08,775\n好這個我們充分可以理解因為畢竟大水庫概念我們的總預算是固定的那所以現在要回到這個主委這邊那剛剛院長有很明確的有很明確的表示了就是不足的部分園民會自己內部要去做調整那這個調整的部分不曉得主委這邊有沒有遇到什麼困難或者是有做到什麼樣的進度\n\n34\n00:13:09,375 --> 00:13:24,832\n或者是你們還需要更多的時間在做討論我想今天就藉著這個大院總質詢把話講清楚因為外面齁整天大家打來打去啦那當然我跟吳麗華都是劍拔啦\n\n35\n00:13:25,573 --> 00:13:42,531\n但我們自己也是提案人我要在這裡重申我的立場我們還是跟原住民站在一起我不管這中間誰說了什麼我們就是代表我們是原住民選出來的民意代表就是跟原住民站在一起所以我要給主委加油\n\n36\n00:13:43,842 --> 00:14:04,115\n委員您跟吳立華委員長期為原住民發言爭取權益這個大家都看到了那我也願意在這個領域當中能夠跟委員好好的來檢討甚至我們好好的來制定對原住民最大的權利但是如果在一般原來的原民會的預算當中\n\n37\n00:14:05,235 --> 00:14:33,933\n卻占據了40%的預算拿去做單一的補助的話那對其他的原住民權益上是有所不當的我們當時的理由是這個樣子這個我們可以理解但是我想主委經過這段時間的一些調整還有跟主計的溝通我想你們是不是還差最後一步要再跟這個院長這邊來做最後的確認跟報告進度那我想如果是\n\n38\n00:14:34,733 --> 00:14:51,926\n如果他們試算出來是許可的那是不是院長也可以用您當初秉持的柔軟的心來同意他們的編列而且我想我見證了最早就是說我們在討論要不要這個\n\n39\n00:14:53,447 --> 00:14:55,868\n我們不希望預算的編列是用這樣的方式這個是不合法不合憲的那我們希望大家能夠\n\n40\n00:15:18,510 --> 00:15:45,533\n很理性的來討論那這一筆預算在原民會裡面當初我們希望原民會是說你應該就你原民會裡面業務的優先順序來做你最好的選擇我想是這樣就是說主委你把話也講出去了那到底這一筆預算你要怎麼去調整處理有沒有自愛難行的地方\n\n41\n00:15:46,633 --> 00:15:51,369\n跟委員報告因為這個是要發放也是明年9月底才\n\n42\n00:16:18,148 --> 00:16:42,873\n現在收入期都是太高了,都沒有收太早所以大家就先不要再讓你製造很多奇奇怪怪的新聞我們就給他們一點時間做周兆,把預算補齊,我們就可以為你們加油這樣好不好?不要把這個走預算退回走預算,把這個原住民的居家補償當作藉口退回走預算,我們還有很多救疫錢在裡面啊\n\n43\n00:16:47,861 --> 00:16:48,061\n陳英文指詢：卓議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29236\t32219\t請行政院長請卓院長備詢政委員好\n47305\t71163\t院長好我接下來要質詢的題目因為涵蓋的部會非常多所以我想就請各部會首長就坐在位置上仔細聆聽然後看簡報這樣子就可以院長這是去年6月份行政院的新聞稿標題政府希望藉由提高軍公教的待遇帶動民間企業跟進全民共享經濟成長的果實\n73444\t88290\t我們文化健康站 巷弄長照站的趙服員從2019年調薪到三萬三之後已經整整五年沒有再調薪了所以我希望可以立即檢討加薪的問題因為這有關上萬名我們這個趙服員的權益那麼\n95172\t122708\t還有就是有關於各部會所主管的法人基金會以及公司是不是有依照行政院政策方向落實調薪這是我調查各部會的情形那有很多部會的法人基金會或者是公司公司他們根本就沒有調薪那甚至在有些法人沒有調薪的理由呢竟然是因為績效不好\n123368\t152568\t那我覺得他們完全搞錯政府的方向政府是希望帶動民間企業跟進的是希望調整整個薪資的水平那希望透過調整提升整個薪資架構讓全民共享經濟成長的果實所以我們在這裡討論的並不是一個績效的問題那麼接下來我特別在我們看一下勞動部的部分\n153588\t176816\t因為勞動部只有一個法人而已那今年6月份本席特別和整個和我們未還委員會的這個同仁一起去考察重建之家的時候我在現場已經有特別提出也特別提醒董事長也就是現在這個兼任董事長就是治安署的署長\n178377\t199039\t我特別提醒他這個問題那這個董事長還當著大家的面很大聲的來同意那我不知道就是說到底他是怎麼回去回報部長這個問題為什麼這個法人到現在遲遲都沒有調心所以我想\n201301\t225517\t政府想要提高這個勞工的薪資水平的美意勞動部其實責無旁貸有一個帶頭的作用所以這樣子會比較有說服力那麼如果有更多的部會的這些法人單位如果大家都不願意為這個勞工加薪的話那這樣怎麼去帶動整個民間的企業去加薪去跟進那我相信我們勞動部長\n226718\t250866\t他一定是很願意來做這個領頭羊只是說我不太理解你們的董事長回去怎麼跟您報告的所以今天勞動部在這裡失去了一個帶頭的機會而且這些資料我還有一些資料我在質詢我現在沒有秀出來這些部會裡面有很多是像勞務承攬還有計劃用人的方式他長期聘用這個臨時人員\n252626\t272446\t這些臨時人員的薪資都相當低我們很多的部會也都沒有為他們加薪我在這邊特別花時間整理讓院長瞭解一下這個情形所以院長我希望這些單位我們大家可以馬上來檢討第一明年軍公教調薪3%\n273827\t294771\t這些單位都可以跟進調薪3%第二個訴求就是這些單位今年沒有調整4%的特別是有人拍胸脯保證的那個應該要馬上調整而且要回溯到今年1月1日我想就提出這些訴求請教院長不知道能不能同意\n296069\t311641\t好 謝謝委員各部會所屬相關的法人他的性質或許都有所不同所以條新的狀況是不相同的但是在行政院公佈了這個條新的結構之後\n313402\t332355\t我覺得我們不僅是公務人員、軍公教人員調薪我們也希望民間的企業也一併能夠把薪資往上調所以在這個情況底下我還是認為即使他性質不相同還是要盡自己的經營的績效能夠往上調不過據知這個勞動部剛剛部長跟我說他所屬的這些都已經調了\n338437\t351343\t委員關心我們已經決定那個在今年11月1號會召開董事會就重建預防重建中心董事會已經有跟我報告了那麼我們也讓他要在11月1號召開董事會對明年1月1號開始會挑釁4%\n354229\t382388\t從明年1月1號開始對所以這個差距這就是我為什麼會有第二個訴求那因為這個本來今年可能7月就可以做的事情那結果拖到明年那拖到明年之後他們等於喪失了今年加薪的這個權利我想這個部分我還是請你們再回去好好的再重新檢討研議一下畢竟這個你們有帶頭的作用\n383305\t412758\t好 我知道委員在關切前面去年有調而我們未調的狀況那麼我們會在明年年中也會再一併補足3%好 謝謝那沒關係謝謝我們後續主任總回答一下好不好再說謝謝委員我想剛才委員關心的大概有幾個不同的組織形態一個是政府兼注20%以上財團法人他整個調薪的機制要經過董事會通過以後再\n413956\t438486\t主管機關核准那事實上他在調薪他有一定的一個遊戲規則另外關於事業機構的話就是跟他的經營績效是相關的事實上有時候政府是調4%那事業的經營績效如果好的話他是可以調到5% 6%之類的因為他是以百那個績效導向的所以不同的組織形態他在調薪的部分是\n439045\t465870\t有看績效或者看他的公司章程直接來做一個不一樣的規範好 這個可以理解那總之我想今天這個主題也是給大家刺激一下提醒一下那我們來做一個檢討讓政府來帶頭好嗎所屬的這些單位好 謝謝那我接下來要請這個園民會主委院長也請留步其他可以請回\n471222\t488258\t這個問題 我想大家商量已經很久了但其實它沒有那麼複雜啦 真的院長 這個禁法補償的這個法定支出本來就會依規定核發那但是因為有立委覺得呢就是明年的這個禁法補償應該要編列到42億元\n492782\t507669\t所以當他們看到預算書之後覺得說怎麼只有27億元加減乘除算一算少了15億所以那天就衝到台前罵了院長也罵了原民會主委那我幫大家整理一下\n508729\t534117\t各位這個是進法補償歷年的經費核發的資料除了第一年剛開始之外過去的七年每年都是公務預算跟基金共同支應甚至在去年的基金的支出比公務預算是還要多的我們其實只要把過去的資料我們就攤開來看一下就一清二楚了\n536619\t536780\t對 公務員報告對\n546890\t564958\t我想這段時間有很多的溝通也克服很多的困難我是不是請主委也跟大家報告一下就是說你們這段時間當然我們委員也很努力你們這邊努力溝通的過程經過進度目前如何\n566312\t592285\t跟委員報告這個進華補償是從105年開始就來這個做就是補償我們的原住民的林農從2萬到3萬到今年的這個6月3號我們大宴通過那這邊的這些調整也是因應我們的物價通膨的一個是主要的原因是\n593706\t593846\t主席\n611852\t624770\t陳瑩議員\n626252\t643722\t應該是夠花放明年的進華補償我比較關心的是就是說這個部分你們是不是有跟主席那邊有討論過然後最後也是要問一下院長這邊的態度因為眾說紛雲那那個主席的部分是不是主委那邊也有對過了\n645042\t666625\t這個跟委員報告剛剛主委他說的是說現在針對今年的預算他有他的想法但是我們要回歸到預算制定編列的原則上面來看行政院制定編列預算立法院審議這個預算有任何增加預算新的增加預算都必須要有新的裁員\n667830\t668090\t李卓人議員\n686952\t703607\t另外一個方式就是由3萬調整到6萬這種百分之百的條幅在任何的實際政策跟補貼政策當中都少見都少見所以今年我們在大院審查過程當中我們曾經提出說如果能夠\n704528\t719035\t由3萬調整到4萬行政院願意來吸收這樣的4萬在預算裡面表現但是在審查過程當中卻沒有被重視因此但是行政院還是負責任的依照過去的承諾我們編了4萬這4萬之後\n722165\t722185\t委員長陳瑩\n738300\t758346\t各部會都用這種方式通過委員方式來增加預算那明年往後的預算將無可控制所以我們希望兩院之間要這種討論的空間而不是用一個表決的方式就把預算提高那如果這個是從30萬提高到60萬300萬提高到600萬行政院也無法接受\n759701\t788775\t好 這個我們充分可以理解因為畢竟大水庫概念我們的總預算是固定的那所以現在要回到這個主委這邊那剛剛院長有很明確的有很明確的表示了就是不足的部分 園民會自己內部要去做調整那這個調整的部分不曉得主委這邊有沒有遇到什麼困難或者是有做到什麼樣的進度\n789375\t804832\t或者是你們還需要更多的時間在做討論我想今天就藉著這個大院總質詢把話講清楚因為外面齁整天大家打來打去啦那當然我跟吳麗華都是劍拔啦\n805573\t822531\t但我們自己也是提案人我要在這裡重申我的立場我們還是跟原住民站在一起我不管這中間誰說了什麼我們就是代表我們是原住民選出來的民意代表就是跟原住民站在一起所以我要給主委加油\n823842\t844115\t委員您跟吳立華委員長期為原住民發言爭取權益這個大家都看到了那我也願意在這個領域當中能夠跟委員好好的來檢討甚至我們好好的來制定對原住民最大的權利但是如果在一般原來的原民會的預算當中\n845235\t873933\t卻占據了40%的預算拿去做單一的補助的話那對其他的原住民權益上是有所不當的我們當時的理由是這個樣子這個我們可以理解但是我想主委經過這段時間的一些調整還有跟主計的溝通我想你們是不是還差最後一步要再跟這個院長這邊來做最後的確認跟報告進度那我想如果是\n874733\t891926\t如果他們試算出來是許可的那是不是院長也可以用您當初秉持的柔軟的心來同意他們的編列而且我想我見證了最早就是說我們在討論要不要這個\n893447\t895868\t我們不希望預算的編列是用這樣的方式這個是不合法不合憲的那我們希望大家能夠\n918510\t945533\t很理性的來討論那這一筆預算在原民會裡面當初我們希望原民會是說你應該就你原民會裡面業務的優先順序來做你最好的選擇我想是這樣就是說主委你把話也講出去了那到底這一筆預算你要怎麼去調整處理有沒有自愛難行的地方\n946633\t951369\t跟委員報告因為這個是要發放也是明年9月底才\n978148\t1002873\t現在收入期都是太高了,都沒有收太早所以大家就先不要再讓你製造很多奇奇怪怪的新聞我們就給他們一點時間做周兆,把預算補齊,我們就可以為你們加油這樣好不好?不要把這個走預算退回走預算,把這個原住民的居家補償當作藉口退回走預算,我們還有很多救疫錢在裡面啊\n1007861\t1008061\t陳英文指詢：卓議員\n","txt":"請行政院長請卓院長備詢政委員好\n院長好我接下來要質詢的題目因為涵蓋的部會非常多所以我想就請各部會首長就坐在位置上仔細聆聽然後看簡報這樣子就可以院長這是去年6月份行政院的新聞稿標題政府希望藉由提高軍公教的待遇帶動民間企業跟進全民共享經濟成長的果實\n我們文化健康站 巷弄長照站的趙服員從2019年調薪到三萬三之後已經整整五年沒有再調薪了所以我希望可以立即檢討加薪的問題因為這有關上萬名我們這個趙服員的權益那麼\n還有就是有關於各部會所主管的法人基金會以及公司是不是有依照行政院政策方向落實調薪這是我調查各部會的情形那有很多部會的法人基金會或者是公司公司他們根本就沒有調薪那甚至在有些法人沒有調薪的理由呢竟然是因為績效不好\n那我覺得他們完全搞錯政府的方向政府是希望帶動民間企業跟進的是希望調整整個薪資的水平那希望透過調整提升整個薪資架構讓全民共享經濟成長的果實所以我們在這裡討論的並不是一個績效的問題那麼接下來我特別在我們看一下勞動部的部分\n因為勞動部只有一個法人而已那今年6月份本席特別和整個和我們未還委員會的這個同仁一起去考察重建之家的時候我在現場已經有特別提出也特別提醒董事長也就是現在這個兼任董事長就是治安署的署長\n我特別提醒他這個問題那這個董事長還當著大家的面很大聲的來同意那我不知道就是說到底他是怎麼回去回報部長這個問題為什麼這個法人到現在遲遲都沒有調心所以我想\n政府想要提高這個勞工的薪資水平的美意勞動部其實責無旁貸有一個帶頭的作用所以這樣子會比較有說服力那麼如果有更多的部會的這些法人單位如果大家都不願意為這個勞工加薪的話那這樣怎麼去帶動整個民間的企業去加薪去跟進那我相信我們勞動部長\n他一定是很願意來做這個領頭羊只是說我不太理解你們的董事長回去怎麼跟您報告的所以今天勞動部在這裡失去了一個帶頭的機會而且這些資料我還有一些資料我在質詢我現在沒有秀出來這些部會裡面有很多是像勞務承攬還有計劃用人的方式他長期聘用這個臨時人員\n這些臨時人員的薪資都相當低我們很多的部會也都沒有為他們加薪我在這邊特別花時間整理讓院長瞭解一下這個情形所以院長我希望這些單位我們大家可以馬上來檢討第一明年軍公教調薪3%\n這些單位都可以跟進調薪3%第二個訴求就是這些單位今年沒有調整4%的特別是有人拍胸脯保證的那個應該要馬上調整而且要回溯到今年1月1日我想就提出這些訴求請教院長不知道能不能同意\n好 謝謝委員各部會所屬相關的法人他的性質或許都有所不同所以條新的狀況是不相同的但是在行政院公佈了這個條新的結構之後\n我覺得我們不僅是公務人員、軍公教人員調薪我們也希望民間的企業也一併能夠把薪資往上調所以在這個情況底下我還是認為即使他性質不相同還是要盡自己的經營的績效能夠往上調不過據知這個勞動部剛剛部長跟我說他所屬的這些都已經調了\n委員關心我們已經決定那個在今年11月1號會召開董事會就重建預防重建中心董事會已經有跟我報告了那麼我們也讓他要在11月1號召開董事會對明年1月1號開始會挑釁4%\n從明年1月1號開始對所以這個差距這就是我為什麼會有第二個訴求那因為這個本來今年可能7月就可以做的事情那結果拖到明年那拖到明年之後他們等於喪失了今年加薪的這個權利我想這個部分我還是請你們再回去好好的再重新檢討研議一下畢竟這個你們有帶頭的作用\n好 我知道委員在關切前面去年有調而我們未調的狀況那麼我們會在明年年中也會再一併補足3%好 謝謝那沒關係謝謝我們後續主任總回答一下好不好再說謝謝委員我想剛才委員關心的大概有幾個不同的組織形態一個是政府兼注20%以上財團法人他整個調薪的機制要經過董事會通過以後再\n主管機關核准那事實上他在調薪他有一定的一個遊戲規則另外關於事業機構的話就是跟他的經營績效是相關的事實上有時候政府是調4%那事業的經營績效如果好的話他是可以調到5% 6%之類的因為他是以百那個績效導向的所以不同的組織形態他在調薪的部分是\n有看績效或者看他的公司章程直接來做一個不一樣的規範好 這個可以理解那總之我想今天這個主題也是給大家刺激一下提醒一下那我們來做一個檢討讓政府來帶頭好嗎所屬的這些單位好 謝謝那我接下來要請這個園民會主委院長也請留步其他可以請回\n這個問題 我想大家商量已經很久了但其實它沒有那麼複雜啦 真的院長 這個禁法補償的這個法定支出本來就會依規定核發那但是因為有立委覺得呢就是明年的這個禁法補償應該要編列到42億元\n所以當他們看到預算書之後覺得說怎麼只有27億元加減乘除算一算少了15億所以那天就衝到台前罵了院長也罵了原民會主委那我幫大家整理一下\n各位這個是進法補償歷年的經費核發的資料除了第一年剛開始之外過去的七年每年都是公務預算跟基金共同支應甚至在去年的基金的支出比公務預算是還要多的我們其實只要把過去的資料我們就攤開來看一下就一清二楚了\n對 公務員報告對\n我想這段時間有很多的溝通也克服很多的困難我是不是請主委也跟大家報告一下就是說你們這段時間當然我們委員也很努力你們這邊努力溝通的過程經過進度目前如何\n跟委員報告這個進華補償是從105年開始就來這個做就是補償我們的原住民的林農從2萬到3萬到今年的這個6月3號我們大宴通過那這邊的這些調整也是因應我們的物價通膨的一個是主要的原因是\n主席\n陳瑩議員\n應該是夠花放明年的進華補償我比較關心的是就是說這個部分你們是不是有跟主席那邊有討論過然後最後也是要問一下院長這邊的態度因為眾說紛雲那那個主席的部分是不是主委那邊也有對過了\n這個跟委員報告剛剛主委他說的是說現在針對今年的預算他有他的想法但是我們要回歸到預算制定編列的原則上面來看行政院制定編列預算立法院審議這個預算有任何增加預算新的增加預算都必須要有新的裁員\n李卓人議員\n另外一個方式就是由3萬調整到6萬這種百分之百的條幅在任何的實際政策跟補貼政策當中都少見都少見所以今年我們在大院審查過程當中我們曾經提出說如果能夠\n由3萬調整到4萬行政院願意來吸收這樣的4萬在預算裡面表現但是在審查過程當中卻沒有被重視因此但是行政院還是負責任的依照過去的承諾我們編了4萬這4萬之後\n委員長陳瑩\n各部會都用這種方式通過委員方式來增加預算那明年往後的預算將無可控制所以我們希望兩院之間要這種討論的空間而不是用一個表決的方式就把預算提高那如果這個是從30萬提高到60萬300萬提高到600萬行政院也無法接受\n好 這個我們充分可以理解因為畢竟大水庫概念我們的總預算是固定的那所以現在要回到這個主委這邊那剛剛院長有很明確的有很明確的表示了就是不足的部分 園民會自己內部要去做調整那這個調整的部分不曉得主委這邊有沒有遇到什麼困難或者是有做到什麼樣的進度\n或者是你們還需要更多的時間在做討論我想今天就藉著這個大院總質詢把話講清楚因為外面齁整天大家打來打去啦那當然我跟吳麗華都是劍拔啦\n但我們自己也是提案人我要在這裡重申我的立場我們還是跟原住民站在一起我不管這中間誰說了什麼我們就是代表我們是原住民選出來的民意代表就是跟原住民站在一起所以我要給主委加油\n委員您跟吳立華委員長期為原住民發言爭取權益這個大家都看到了那我也願意在這個領域當中能夠跟委員好好的來檢討甚至我們好好的來制定對原住民最大的權利但是如果在一般原來的原民會的預算當中\n卻占據了40%的預算拿去做單一的補助的話那對其他的原住民權益上是有所不當的我們當時的理由是這個樣子這個我們可以理解但是我想主委經過這段時間的一些調整還有跟主計的溝通我想你們是不是還差最後一步要再跟這個院長這邊來做最後的確認跟報告進度那我想如果是\n如果他們試算出來是許可的那是不是院長也可以用您當初秉持的柔軟的心來同意他們的編列而且我想我見證了最早就是說我們在討論要不要這個\n我們不希望預算的編列是用這樣的方式這個是不合法不合憲的那我們希望大家能夠\n很理性的來討論那這一筆預算在原民會裡面當初我們希望原民會是說你應該就你原民會裡面業務的優先順序來做你最好的選擇我想是這樣就是說主委你把話也講出去了那到底這一筆預算你要怎麼去調整處理有沒有自愛難行的地方\n跟委員報告因為這個是要發放也是明年9月底才\n現在收入期都是太高了,都沒有收太早所以大家就先不要再讓你製造很多奇奇怪怪的新聞我們就給他們一點時間做周兆,把預算補齊,我們就可以為你們加油這樣好不好?不要把這個走預算退回走預算,把這個原住民的居家補償當作藉口退回走預算,我們還有很多救疫錢在裡面啊\n陳英文指詢：卓議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:29.236 --> 00:32.219\n請行政院長請卓院長備詢政委員好\n\n00:47.305 --> 01:11.163\n院長好我接下來要質詢的題目因為涵蓋的部會非常多所以我想就請各部會首長就坐在位置上仔細聆聽然後看簡報這樣子就可以院長這是去年6月份行政院的新聞稿標題政府希望藉由提高軍公教的待遇帶動民間企業跟進全民共享經濟成長的果實\n\n01:13.444 --> 01:28.290\n我們文化健康站巷弄長照站的趙服員從2019年調薪到三萬三之後已經整整五年沒有再調薪了所以我希望可以立即檢討加薪的問題因為這有關上萬名我們這個趙服員的權益那麼\n\n01:35.172 --> 02:02.708\n還有就是有關於各部會所主管的法人基金會以及公司是不是有依照行政院政策方向落實調薪這是我調查各部會的情形那有很多部會的法人基金會或者是公司公司他們根本就沒有調薪那甚至在有些法人沒有調薪的理由呢竟然是因為績效不好\n\n02:03.368 --> 02:32.568\n那我覺得他們完全搞錯政府的方向政府是希望帶動民間企業跟進的是希望調整整個薪資的水平那希望透過調整提升整個薪資架構讓全民共享經濟成長的果實所以我們在這裡討論的並不是一個績效的問題那麼接下來我特別在我們看一下勞動部的部分\n\n02:33.588 --> 02:56.816\n因為勞動部只有一個法人而已那今年6月份本席特別和整個和我們未還委員會的這個同仁一起去考察重建之家的時候我在現場已經有特別提出也特別提醒董事長也就是現在這個兼任董事長就是治安署的署長\n\n02:58.377 --> 03:19.039\n我特別提醒他這個問題那這個董事長還當著大家的面很大聲的來同意那我不知道就是說到底他是怎麼回去回報部長這個問題為什麼這個法人到現在遲遲都沒有調心所以我想\n\n03:21.301 --> 03:45.517\n政府想要提高這個勞工的薪資水平的美意勞動部其實責無旁貸有一個帶頭的作用所以這樣子會比較有說服力那麼如果有更多的部會的這些法人單位如果大家都不願意為這個勞工加薪的話那這樣怎麼去帶動整個民間的企業去加薪去跟進那我相信我們勞動部長\n\n03:46.718 --> 04:10.866\n他一定是很願意來做這個領頭羊只是說我不太理解你們的董事長回去怎麼跟您報告的所以今天勞動部在這裡失去了一個帶頭的機會而且這些資料我還有一些資料我在質詢我現在沒有秀出來這些部會裡面有很多是像勞務承攬還有計劃用人的方式他長期聘用這個臨時人員\n\n04:12.626 --> 04:32.446\n這些臨時人員的薪資都相當低我們很多的部會也都沒有為他們加薪我在這邊特別花時間整理讓院長瞭解一下這個情形所以院長我希望這些單位我們大家可以馬上來檢討第一明年軍公教調薪3%\n\n04:33.827 --> 04:54.771\n這些單位都可以跟進調薪3%第二個訴求就是這些單位今年沒有調整4%的特別是有人拍胸脯保證的那個應該要馬上調整而且要回溯到今年1月1日我想就提出這些訴求請教院長不知道能不能同意\n\n04:56.069 --> 05:11.641\n好謝謝委員各部會所屬相關的法人他的性質或許都有所不同所以條新的狀況是不相同的但是在行政院公佈了這個條新的結構之後\n\n05:13.402 --> 05:32.355\n我覺得我們不僅是公務人員、軍公教人員調薪我們也希望民間的企業也一併能夠把薪資往上調所以在這個情況底下我還是認為即使他性質不相同還是要盡自己的經營的績效能夠往上調不過據知這個勞動部剛剛部長跟我說他所屬的這些都已經調了\n\n05:38.437 --> 05:51.343\n委員關心我們已經決定那個在今年11月1號會召開董事會就重建預防重建中心董事會已經有跟我報告了那麼我們也讓他要在11月1號召開董事會對明年1月1號開始會挑釁4%\n\n05:54.229 --> 06:22.388\n從明年1月1號開始對所以這個差距這就是我為什麼會有第二個訴求那因為這個本來今年可能7月就可以做的事情那結果拖到明年那拖到明年之後他們等於喪失了今年加薪的這個權利我想這個部分我還是請你們再回去好好的再重新檢討研議一下畢竟這個你們有帶頭的作用\n\n06:23.305 --> 06:52.758\n好我知道委員在關切前面去年有調而我們未調的狀況那麼我們會在明年年中也會再一併補足3%好謝謝那沒關係謝謝我們後續主任總回答一下好不好再說謝謝委員我想剛才委員關心的大概有幾個不同的組織形態一個是政府兼注20%以上財團法人他整個調薪的機制要經過董事會通過以後再\n\n06:53.956 --> 07:18.486\n主管機關核准那事實上他在調薪他有一定的一個遊戲規則另外關於事業機構的話就是跟他的經營績效是相關的事實上有時候政府是調4%那事業的經營績效如果好的話他是可以調到5%6%之類的因為他是以百那個績效導向的所以不同的組織形態他在調薪的部分是\n\n07:19.045 --> 07:45.870\n有看績效或者看他的公司章程直接來做一個不一樣的規範好這個可以理解那總之我想今天這個主題也是給大家刺激一下提醒一下那我們來做一個檢討讓政府來帶頭好嗎所屬的這些單位好謝謝那我接下來要請這個園民會主委院長也請留步其他可以請回\n\n07:51.222 --> 08:08.258\n這個問題我想大家商量已經很久了但其實它沒有那麼複雜啦真的院長這個禁法補償的這個法定支出本來就會依規定核發那但是因為有立委覺得呢就是明年的這個禁法補償應該要編列到42億元\n\n08:12.782 --> 08:27.669\n所以當他們看到預算書之後覺得說怎麼只有27億元加減乘除算一算少了15億所以那天就衝到台前罵了院長也罵了原民會主委那我幫大家整理一下\n\n08:28.729 --> 08:54.117\n各位這個是進法補償歷年的經費核發的資料除了第一年剛開始之外過去的七年每年都是公務預算跟基金共同支應甚至在去年的基金的支出比公務預算是還要多的我們其實只要把過去的資料我們就攤開來看一下就一清二楚了\n\n08:56.619 --> 08:56.780\n對公務員報告對\n\n09:06.890 --> 09:24.958\n我想這段時間有很多的溝通也克服很多的困難我是不是請主委也跟大家報告一下就是說你們這段時間當然我們委員也很努力你們這邊努力溝通的過程經過進度目前如何\n\n09:26.312 --> 09:52.285\n跟委員報告這個進華補償是從105年開始就來這個做就是補償我們的原住民的林農從2萬到3萬到今年的這個6月3號我們大宴通過那這邊的這些調整也是因應我們的物價通膨的一個是主要的原因是\n\n09:53.706 --> 09:53.846\n主席\n\n10:26.252 --> 10:43.722\n應該是夠花放明年的進華補償我比較關心的是就是說這個部分你們是不是有跟主席那邊有討論過然後最後也是要問一下院長這邊的態度因為眾說紛雲那那個主席的部分是不是主委那邊也有對過了\n\n10:45.042 --> 11:06.625\n這個跟委員報告剛剛主委他說的是說現在針對今年的預算他有他的想法但是我們要回歸到預算制定編列的原則上面來看行政院制定編列預算立法院審議這個預算有任何增加預算新的增加預算都必須要有新的裁員\n\n11:07.830 --> 11:08.090\n李卓人議員\n\n11:26.952 --> 11:43.607\n另外一個方式就是由3萬調整到6萬這種百分之百的條幅在任何的實際政策跟補貼政策當中都少見都少見所以今年我們在大院審查過程當中我們曾經提出說如果能夠\n\n11:44.528 --> 11:59.035\n由3萬調整到4萬行政院願意來吸收這樣的4萬在預算裡面表現但是在審查過程當中卻沒有被重視因此但是行政院還是負責任的依照過去的承諾我們編了4萬這4萬之後\n\n12:02.165 --> 12:02.185\n委員長陳瑩\n\n12:18.300 --> 12:38.346\n各部會都用這種方式通過委員方式來增加預算那明年往後的預算將無可控制所以我們希望兩院之間要這種討論的空間而不是用一個表決的方式就把預算提高那如果這個是從30萬提高到60萬300萬提高到600萬行政院也無法接受\n\n12:39.701 --> 13:08.775\n好這個我們充分可以理解因為畢竟大水庫概念我們的總預算是固定的那所以現在要回到這個主委這邊那剛剛院長有很明確的有很明確的表示了就是不足的部分園民會自己內部要去做調整那這個調整的部分不曉得主委這邊有沒有遇到什麼困難或者是有做到什麼樣的進度\n\n13:09.375 --> 13:24.832\n或者是你們還需要更多的時間在做討論我想今天就藉著這個大院總質詢把話講清楚因為外面齁整天大家打來打去啦那當然我跟吳麗華都是劍拔啦\n\n13:25.573 --> 13:42.531\n但我們自己也是提案人我要在這裡重申我的立場我們還是跟原住民站在一起我不管這中間誰說了什麼我們就是代表我們是原住民選出來的民意代表就是跟原住民站在一起所以我要給主委加油\n\n13:43.842 --> 14:04.115\n委員您跟吳立華委員長期為原住民發言爭取權益這個大家都看到了那我也願意在這個領域當中能夠跟委員好好的來檢討甚至我們好好的來制定對原住民最大的權利但是如果在一般原來的原民會的預算當中\n\n14:05.235 --> 14:33.933\n卻占據了40%的預算拿去做單一的補助的話那對其他的原住民權益上是有所不當的我們當時的理由是這個樣子這個我們可以理解但是我想主委經過這段時間的一些調整還有跟主計的溝通我想你們是不是還差最後一步要再跟這個院長這邊來做最後的確認跟報告進度那我想如果是\n\n14:34.733 --> 14:51.926\n如果他們試算出來是許可的那是不是院長也可以用您當初秉持的柔軟的心來同意他們的編列而且我想我見證了最早就是說我們在討論要不要這個\n\n14:53.447 --> 14:55.868\n我們不希望預算的編列是用這樣的方式這個是不合法不合憲的那我們希望大家能夠\n\n15:18.510 --> 15:45.533\n很理性的來討論那這一筆預算在原民會裡面當初我們希望原民會是說你應該就你原民會裡面業務的優先順序來做你最好的選擇我想是這樣就是說主委你把話也講出去了那到底這一筆預算你要怎麼去調整處理有沒有自愛難行的地方\n\n15:46.633 --> 15:51.369\n跟委員報告因為這個是要發放也是明年9月底才\n\n16:18.148 --> 16:42.873\n現在收入期都是太高了,都沒有收太早所以大家就先不要再讓你製造很多奇奇怪怪的新聞我們就給他們一點時間做周兆,把預算補齊,我們就可以為你們加油這樣好不好?不要把這個走預算退回走預算,把這個原住民的居家補償當作藉口退回走預算,我們還有很多救疫錢在裡面啊\n\n16:47.861 --> 16:48.061\n陳英文指詢：卓議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":29.236,"end":32.219,"text":"請行政院長請卓院長備詢政委員好"},{"start":47.305,"end":71.163,"text":"院長好我接下來要質詢的題目因為涵蓋的部會非常多所以我想就請各部會首長就坐在位置上仔細聆聽然後看簡報這樣子就可以院長這是去年6月份行政院的新聞稿標題政府希望藉由提高軍公教的待遇帶動民間企業跟進全民共享經濟成長的果實"},{"start":73.444,"end":88.29,"text":"我們文化健康站 巷弄長照站的趙服員從2019年調薪到三萬三之後已經整整五年沒有再調薪了所以我希望可以立即檢討加薪的問題因為這有關上萬名我們這個趙服員的權益那麼"},{"start":95.172,"end":122.708,"text":"還有就是有關於各部會所主管的法人基金會以及公司是不是有依照行政院政策方向落實調薪這是我調查各部會的情形那有很多部會的法人基金會或者是公司公司他們根本就沒有調薪那甚至在有些法人沒有調薪的理由呢竟然是因為績效不好"},{"start":123.368,"end":152.568,"text":"那我覺得他們完全搞錯政府的方向政府是希望帶動民間企業跟進的是希望調整整個薪資的水平那希望透過調整提升整個薪資架構讓全民共享經濟成長的果實所以我們在這裡討論的並不是一個績效的問題那麼接下來我特別在我們看一下勞動部的部分"},{"start":153.588,"end":176.816,"text":"因為勞動部只有一個法人而已那今年6月份本席特別和整個和我們未還委員會的這個同仁一起去考察重建之家的時候我在現場已經有特別提出也特別提醒董事長也就是現在這個兼任董事長就是治安署的署長"},{"start":178.377,"end":199.039,"text":"我特別提醒他這個問題那這個董事長還當著大家的面很大聲的來同意那我不知道就是說到底他是怎麼回去回報部長這個問題為什麼這個法人到現在遲遲都沒有調心所以我想"},{"start":201.301,"end":225.517,"text":"政府想要提高這個勞工的薪資水平的美意勞動部其實責無旁貸有一個帶頭的作用所以這樣子會比較有說服力那麼如果有更多的部會的這些法人單位如果大家都不願意為這個勞工加薪的話那這樣怎麼去帶動整個民間的企業去加薪去跟進那我相信我們勞動部長"},{"start":226.718,"end":250.866,"text":"他一定是很願意來做這個領頭羊只是說我不太理解你們的董事長回去怎麼跟您報告的所以今天勞動部在這裡失去了一個帶頭的機會而且這些資料我還有一些資料我在質詢我現在沒有秀出來這些部會裡面有很多是像勞務承攬還有計劃用人的方式他長期聘用這個臨時人員"},{"start":252.626,"end":272.446,"text":"這些臨時人員的薪資都相當低我們很多的部會也都沒有為他們加薪我在這邊特別花時間整理讓院長瞭解一下這個情形所以院長我希望這些單位我們大家可以馬上來檢討第一明年軍公教調薪3%"},{"start":273.827,"end":294.771,"text":"這些單位都可以跟進調薪3%第二個訴求就是這些單位今年沒有調整4%的特別是有人拍胸脯保證的那個應該要馬上調整而且要回溯到今年1月1日我想就提出這些訴求請教院長不知道能不能同意"},{"start":296.069,"end":311.641,"text":"好 謝謝委員各部會所屬相關的法人他的性質或許都有所不同所以條新的狀況是不相同的但是在行政院公佈了這個條新的結構之後"},{"start":313.402,"end":332.355,"text":"我覺得我們不僅是公務人員、軍公教人員調薪我們也希望民間的企業也一併能夠把薪資往上調所以在這個情況底下我還是認為即使他性質不相同還是要盡自己的經營的績效能夠往上調不過據知這個勞動部剛剛部長跟我說他所屬的這些都已經調了"},{"start":338.437,"end":351.343,"text":"委員關心我們已經決定那個在今年11月1號會召開董事會就重建預防重建中心董事會已經有跟我報告了那麼我們也讓他要在11月1號召開董事會對明年1月1號開始會挑釁4%"},{"start":354.229,"end":382.388,"text":"從明年1月1號開始對所以這個差距這就是我為什麼會有第二個訴求那因為這個本來今年可能7月就可以做的事情那結果拖到明年那拖到明年之後他們等於喪失了今年加薪的這個權利我想這個部分我還是請你們再回去好好的再重新檢討研議一下畢竟這個你們有帶頭的作用"},{"start":383.305,"end":412.758,"text":"好 我知道委員在關切前面去年有調而我們未調的狀況那麼我們會在明年年中也會再一併補足3%好 謝謝那沒關係謝謝我們後續主任總回答一下好不好再說謝謝委員我想剛才委員關心的大概有幾個不同的組織形態一個是政府兼注20%以上財團法人他整個調薪的機制要經過董事會通過以後再"},{"start":413.956,"end":438.486,"text":"主管機關核准那事實上他在調薪他有一定的一個遊戲規則另外關於事業機構的話就是跟他的經營績效是相關的事實上有時候政府是調4%那事業的經營績效如果好的話他是可以調到5% 6%之類的因為他是以百那個績效導向的所以不同的組織形態他在調薪的部分是"},{"start":439.045,"end":465.87,"text":"有看績效或者看他的公司章程直接來做一個不一樣的規範好 這個可以理解那總之我想今天這個主題也是給大家刺激一下提醒一下那我們來做一個檢討讓政府來帶頭好嗎所屬的這些單位好 謝謝那我接下來要請這個園民會主委院長也請留步其他可以請回"},{"start":471.222,"end":488.258,"text":"這個問題 我想大家商量已經很久了但其實它沒有那麼複雜啦 真的院長 這個禁法補償的這個法定支出本來就會依規定核發那但是因為有立委覺得呢就是明年的這個禁法補償應該要編列到42億元"},{"start":492.782,"end":507.669,"text":"所以當他們看到預算書之後覺得說怎麼只有27億元加減乘除算一算少了15億所以那天就衝到台前罵了院長也罵了原民會主委那我幫大家整理一下"},{"start":508.729,"end":534.117,"text":"各位這個是進法補償歷年的經費核發的資料除了第一年剛開始之外過去的七年每年都是公務預算跟基金共同支應甚至在去年的基金的支出比公務預算是還要多的我們其實只要把過去的資料我們就攤開來看一下就一清二楚了"},{"start":536.619,"end":536.78,"text":"對 公務員報告對"},{"start":546.89,"end":564.958,"text":"我想這段時間有很多的溝通也克服很多的困難我是不是請主委也跟大家報告一下就是說你們這段時間當然我們委員也很努力你們這邊努力溝通的過程經過進度目前如何"},{"start":566.312,"end":592.285,"text":"跟委員報告這個進華補償是從105年開始就來這個做就是補償我們的原住民的林農從2萬到3萬到今年的這個6月3號我們大宴通過那這邊的這些調整也是因應我們的物價通膨的一個是主要的原因是"},{"start":593.706,"end":593.846,"text":"主席"},{"start":611.852,"end":624.77,"text":"陳瑩議員"},{"start":626.252,"end":643.722,"text":"應該是夠花放明年的進華補償我比較關心的是就是說這個部分你們是不是有跟主席那邊有討論過然後最後也是要問一下院長這邊的態度因為眾說紛雲那那個主席的部分是不是主委那邊也有對過了"},{"start":645.042,"end":666.625,"text":"這個跟委員報告剛剛主委他說的是說現在針對今年的預算他有他的想法但是我們要回歸到預算制定編列的原則上面來看行政院制定編列預算立法院審議這個預算有任何增加預算新的增加預算都必須要有新的裁員"},{"start":667.83,"end":668.09,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":686.952,"end":703.607,"text":"另外一個方式就是由3萬調整到6萬這種百分之百的條幅在任何的實際政策跟補貼政策當中都少見都少見所以今年我們在大院審查過程當中我們曾經提出說如果能夠"},{"start":704.528,"end":719.035,"text":"由3萬調整到4萬行政院願意來吸收這樣的4萬在預算裡面表現但是在審查過程當中卻沒有被重視因此但是行政院還是負責任的依照過去的承諾我們編了4萬這4萬之後"},{"start":722.165,"end":722.185,"text":"委員長陳瑩"},{"start":738.3,"end":758.346,"text":"各部會都用這種方式通過委員方式來增加預算那明年往後的預算將無可控制所以我們希望兩院之間要這種討論的空間而不是用一個表決的方式就把預算提高那如果這個是從30萬提高到60萬300萬提高到600萬行政院也無法接受"},{"start":759.701,"end":788.775,"text":"好 這個我們充分可以理解因為畢竟大水庫概念我們的總預算是固定的那所以現在要回到這個主委這邊那剛剛院長有很明確的有很明確的表示了就是不足的部分 園民會自己內部要去做調整那這個調整的部分不曉得主委這邊有沒有遇到什麼困難或者是有做到什麼樣的進度"},{"start":789.375,"end":804.832,"text":"或者是你們還需要更多的時間在做討論我想今天就藉著這個大院總質詢把話講清楚因為外面齁整天大家打來打去啦那當然我跟吳麗華都是劍拔啦"},{"start":805.573,"end":822.531,"text":"但我們自己也是提案人我要在這裡重申我的立場我們還是跟原住民站在一起我不管這中間誰說了什麼我們就是代表我們是原住民選出來的民意代表就是跟原住民站在一起所以我要給主委加油"},{"start":823.842,"end":844.115,"text":"委員您跟吳立華委員長期為原住民發言爭取權益這個大家都看到了那我也願意在這個領域當中能夠跟委員好好的來檢討甚至我們好好的來制定對原住民最大的權利但是如果在一般原來的原民會的預算當中"},{"start":845.235,"end":873.933,"text":"卻占據了40%的預算拿去做單一的補助的話那對其他的原住民權益上是有所不當的我們當時的理由是這個樣子這個我們可以理解但是我想主委經過這段時間的一些調整還有跟主計的溝通我想你們是不是還差最後一步要再跟這個院長這邊來做最後的確認跟報告進度那我想如果是"},{"start":874.733,"end":891.926,"text":"如果他們試算出來是許可的那是不是院長也可以用您當初秉持的柔軟的心來同意他們的編列而且我想我見證了最早就是說我們在討論要不要這個"},{"start":893.447,"end":895.868,"text":"我們不希望預算的編列是用這樣的方式這個是不合法不合憲的那我們希望大家能夠"},{"start":918.51,"end":945.533,"text":"很理性的來討論那這一筆預算在原民會裡面當初我們希望原民會是說你應該就你原民會裡面業務的優先順序來做你最好的選擇我想是這樣就是說主委你把話也講出去了那到底這一筆預算你要怎麼去調整處理有沒有自愛難行的地方"},{"start":946.633,"end":951.369,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個是要發放也是明年9月底才"},{"start":978.148,"end":1002.873,"text":"現在收入期都是太高了,都沒有收太早所以大家就先不要再讓你製造很多奇奇怪怪的新聞我們就給他們一點時間做周兆,把預算補齊,我們就可以為你們加油這樣好不好?不要把這個走預算退回走預算,把這個原住民的居家補償當作藉口退回走預算,我們還有很多救疫錢在裡面啊"},{"start":1007.861,"end":1008.061,"text":"陳英文指詢：卓議員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-1","title":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-24T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"11:01:44 - 11:18:41","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢）","id":154868}