{"date":"2024-09-24","影片長度":"00:15:24","end_time":"2024-09-24T17:17:51+08:00","type":"Clip","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154884","gazette":{"lineno":694,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（17時2分）謝謝院長，請院長邀請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好！"],["陳委員素月：卓院長，午安，辛苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["陳委員素月：我們知道農業可以說是國家一個很重要的部分，彰化縣是農業也是工業的農工混合大縣，南彰化也是重要的一個農業生產區。目前國土計畫法實施在即，因為2015年12月18日在立法院完成三讀之後，一直到2016年5月1日，馬英九總統任內在即將卸任之前公告要施行，目前就是要一直按照這個時程在進行當中。隨著這個要實施的時間逼近，在地方真的也越來越多人在討論、關注這個議題，尤其是很多我們農業地區的農民，因為他們對於他們的農地、土地都非常地關心。相信大家都聽過一句話，以前老一輩的人都說：有土斯有財，所以土地對農民來說，真的是他們非常在意、要捍衛的一個要項。現在在地方都在瘋傳，說這個國土計畫法如果實施之後，農地就要被判死刑了，然後農民就永無翻身之日了。對這樣子的一個說法，我不曉得我們行政部門有什麼可以去澄清的，可以很簡單地讓農民可以知道？"],["卓院長榮泰：請陳部長說明。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，國土計畫裡面針對農業發展區的部分，其實我們都有一個共通的目的，就是為了農業永續發展，這是非常重要的，而且不會讓過往的土地破碎化，而造成更嚴重的生態影響。","第二個部分要跟委員說明的，您剛才說地方政府有一些對於國土計畫裡面農業發展區農一、農二、農三的劃設有不一樣的意見，這個部分我想以農業部的立場，他們這樣不同的考量是可以持續做溝通的。因為劃設有劃設的原則，但是也會依據縣市政府當地所在的產業的需求而調整，非常重要的就是中央跟地方一定會互相去做後續的溝通跟討論，這是非常重要的。","第三個部分要跟委員說明的，農業部針對整個農地農用的部分是完全沒有影響的，只要農地從事農用的部分完全沒有影響，農業部也會持續配合整個國家的希望工程，我們會發展以農村為發展中心的一個永續支持系統，這個支持系統就是我們看農地絕對不能是看農一、農二，因為農業不只是生產，農業還有很多農村的生活。這個部分我想我們會持續去規劃跟執行，它不會因為國土計畫的如期實施或延後而改變，以上。"],["陳委員素月：因為國土計畫法的立法要旨有提到，為了因應氣候變遷，確保國土安全，保育自然環境與人文資產，促進資源與產業合理配置，強化國土整合管理機制，並復育環境敏感與國土破壞地區，追求國家永續發展。這樣子的立法目的當然我們都贊成，可是我想請教一下院長，國土計畫法真的實施之後，可以達到這樣一個理想的境界嗎？是可以解決目前農地所面臨問題的一個萬靈丹嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：依照剛剛委員所列的時程表來看，國土計畫法在公告立法的時候，我認為還是會站在一個以國家土地永續利用的這種方式來保存最好的農地的方向來進展，但是現在看起來，很多國人或是農民對它裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮，這個部分內政部也好、農業部也好，這段期間以來事實上非常積極地在做溝通跟說明，我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效，大家在這個法的精神底下如何去推動，讓所有的農地分級之後能夠得到妥適的使用跟它應該保障的農民的權益。","目前看起來還有一些縣市，我所知道還有9個縣市，他們目前還是沒有辦法在這種溝通跟說明之下，照時程把分區的功能圖送過來。"],["陳委員素月：當然這是一個問題啦！可是就目前已經送出來的或者是已經有草案的這些資料來看，看起來國土計畫的實施號稱未來希望讓農地總量不變，要追求國家的永續發展，可是照這個數字統計，部分的結果看起來農一的面積反而是少於目前區域計畫中特定農業區的面積，所以這樣子是不是也違背了我們原來的立法要旨？這是一項。","另外，我們也看到有一個縣市，針對水庫的這個區域，原本目前是屬於山坡地的保育區，可是如果在國土計畫法調整之後，反而變成農三，是可以開發的，這樣不是也違背了我們要追求國土保育的要旨嗎？目前我們看到存在一些矛盾，所以當然會引起民眾的疑慮，也讓很多有心人士來見縫插針，就造成地方的紛紛擾擾、民心不安。所以我覺得如果一個政策沒有辦法說服民眾、說服農民，而且如果這個政策實施之後沒有辦法比以前的政策更好的話，我們是不是要先緩一緩，審慎地評估之後再來實施？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：請內政部回答。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝，委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益。我們知道國土計畫法是在明年要一併公告，目前有13個縣市送上來，就表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計畫的功能分區上面願意跟中央政府來多做溝通。委員關心比較多的是在於農地方面的處理，目前為止，有關農地的處理還有農業本身的發展，在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是把農業發展好好地劃到我們的國土計畫裡面，同時，針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面，我們也認為他們有討論的空間。委員所提到的也許有某一個水庫、區域裡面可能在劃地上面有問題，事實上，在國土計畫法真正開始實施第11年，也就是115年之後，我們會有國土永續發展基金，大概目前編列是以500億的方式來解決有關環境敏感地區裡面，如果碰到國土復育的時候必須要做其他的補償或其他相對的措施。所以不管是因應氣候變遷或者是環境保育，我們其實一步一步往前走，但是對於有關於農地劃分部分的話，就會像委員所說的，我們現在對於農一、農二總共的總量管制，其實要各個縣市地方政府願意坐下來跟農業部或是跟內政部一起來討論，才有一個發展的方向。所以委員跟很多其他關心的委員所開的記者會，我們是一個字、一個字在評估當中，如果認為國土計畫法有修正必要的話，我們願意從善如流，但是所謂的展延部分並沒有完全解決問題，展延沒有辦法對已經繳交國土功能分區表的縣市表示這個展延對他們有任何其他繼續往前走的部分。所以我們在想有沒有什麼樣的方式，讓縣市地方政府在處理相關的農地或是其他的土地、城鄉發展區域劃分的時候，可以繼續跟中央政府保持溝通，但是這樣的國土功能分區部分不要停，既然可以不要停的話，我們可以跟農業單位、農政單位或是跟其他在乎國土功能分區的環保單位，或是其他的學者專家再做很好的溝通，這一部分我們會從善如流，也會跟農業部或是相關的部會做一個比較完善的解釋。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝部長。目前國土計畫法在進行當中，就如同我剛剛所舉的兩個點，我們可以看得出來各地方政府的劃設標準不一，或者他們委託顧問公司來做只是做圖資套繪，並沒有做現場會勘。所以我們希望應該要有更多的時間來做溝通，然後讓民眾的疑慮可以消除，在整個完整配套沒有到位之前，我們還是希望國土計畫法能夠暫緩實施，謝謝劉部長。","接下來我請教一下有關農損的部分。在這一次7月下旬有關凱米颱風造成我們全國從北到南很多的災害，不管是淹水也好或是農業損失，當時總統跟院長都有馬上去勘災，而且都馬上對外宣示對農業損失的現金救助部分要從速、從寬、從簡；可是已經過了一個多月，快兩個月了，目前很多的農民都還沒有收到現金救助，甚至是已經被退件，或者是在送案的時候，會勘單位有很多的意見，跟當時中央、長官所宣示的完全有落差，所以也造成地方農民的一些怨言，我們希望在這部分是不是可以請部長關心一下？"],["陳部長駿季：我先跟委員說明，在凱米颱風來的時候，其實我們做了幾件事情是比過往更快速的，過往都是地方去勘查以後報到中央再公告，這次我們是由中央的同仁跟地方一起，地方看了以後就主動公告，這個過程的時間大概省了7天到10天。第二個部分，因為公告以後還是要回到公所去審查，有一部分是免現勘的，我們認為它的災情如果有普遍性，而且有一致性的時候，我們就會公告為免現勘，免現勘的話就不用去現場看，你只要有耕作的事實，這個部分也從速了。唯一比較麻煩的就是因為這一次的品項比較多，公所還是要去現場看，現場看了以後還要縣府複勘，複勘完了以後才報農業部，農業部7天之內一定會付款，所以現在後面的部分，我們會再來努力，後續看用怎麼樣的方式來加速。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝部長，因為我還有兩個問題。農損部分拜託部長能夠多加關心，讓農民真的可以感受到我們政府對他們照顧的心意。","另外一個問題，我想請問一下有關流浪犬的問題，在我的選區、在彰化縣流浪犬的數字真的很高。在二水有愛護動物的善心人士主動地來協助流浪犬的收容，進行結紮然後再回放，可是因為他利用的土地是在林務局的土地，林務局本來要跟他開罰，目前是沒有開單，而是要求他要移除，可是我覺得這個不是他個人的問題，因為他也是做義務性的，所以這個應該是整個公部門要來解決的問題，如果他今天也撒手不管的時候，整個變成豐柏廣場、松柏嶺風景區都是流浪犬在那邊亂竄，對遊客也是一個很大的威脅。所以我們希望在流浪犬的安置上，我們知道目前因為時代進步，我們都有愛護動物這樣的觀念，在2017年法令也規定了禁止全面的撲殺，所以我們不撲殺，可是我們也要有另外一個配套的措施，讓這樣子的政策更完整，是不是請部長再用心一下？","最後一個問題，我們知道在最近兩年因為雞蛋缺蛋的問題，也造成農業部很大的一個壓力，在去年我們也進口了雞蛋，也引發在野黨很多見縫插針的操作，甚至在這次國會擴權的過程當中，他們也用這個議題說要查弊案。剛剛本席得到的消息說目前農業部有遭受到檢調的搜索，我不曉得這個跟案子有關係嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們所得到的訊息就是中午回辦公室的時候，檢調單位針對雞蛋的部分有來請畜產會的同仁跟相關的本會同仁到……應該是到檢調單位那邊去做一些詢問跟約談，至於說到底是什麼樣的方式，我想因為偵查不公開的方式，我不便說明。"],["陳委員素月：對，當然我們尊重偵查不公開啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員素月：當然，農業部真的是責任重大，因為這是關心著民生的議題，不管是農民農業的生產，或者是畜牧業等等，真的面向非常地廣，尤其是目前面臨極端氣候的威脅，我們要做的事情非常地多，我們也希望陳部長要加油。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員素月：對，因為我們目前在地方遇到很多的問題，也希望能夠獲得農業部更多的支持跟積極的協助。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝卓院長。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長的備詢。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，我們非常謝謝卓院長、鄭副院長以及各部會首長列席答詢。現在作以下決定：下次會議繼續進行施政報告之質詢。我們現在散會。","散會（17時18分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","張啓楷","陳培瑜","羅智強","林國成","陳瑩","洪孟楷","黃秀芳","謝龍介","李柏毅","賴士葆","許智傑","黃健豪","陳素月"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-09-24"],"gazette_id":"1137501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137501_00003","1137501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n行政院院長施政報告並備質詢─ 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\"text\": \"但是現在看起來很多國人或是農民對他裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮那這個部分內政部也好農業部也好這期間以來實際上非常積極的在做溝通跟說明那我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 278.308, \"end\": 278.428, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 278.428, \"end\": 279.329, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 279.329, \"end\": 279.509, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 279.509, \"end\": 279.689, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 279.689, \"end\": 279.929, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 279.929, \"end\": 280.089, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 280.089, \"end\": 281.13, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 281.13, \"end\": 281.37, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 281.37, \"end\": 281.49, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 281.49, \"end\": 281.77, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 281.77, \"end\": 282.131, \"score\": 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\"陳素月議員\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 336.168, \"end\": 336.349, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 336.349, \"end\": 336.369, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}]}, {\"start\": 353.423, \"end\": 379.978, \"text\": \"我們也看到有一個縣市它針對這個水庫的區域它原本目前是屬於山坡地的保育區可是它如果在國土計畫法調整之後它反而變成龍山是可以開發的這樣不是也是違背了我們要追求國土保育的一個要旨嗎所以這個目前就是說我們看到很多存在一些矛盾所以當然會引起民眾的疑慮\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 353.423, \"end\": 353.563, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 353.563, \"end\": 353.763, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 353.763, \"end\": 353.943, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 353.943, \"end\": 354.104, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 354.104, \"end\": 354.224, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 354.224, \"end\": 354.744, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 354.744, \"end\": 355.064, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 355.064, \"end\": 356.065, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 356.065, \"end\": 356.625, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 356.625, \"end\": 357.966, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 357.966, \"end\": 358.646, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 358.646, \"end\": 358.846, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 358.846, \"end\": 359.086, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 359.086, \"end\": 359.306, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 359.306, \"end\": 359.587, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 359.587, \"end\": 359.887, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 359.887, \"end\": 360.707, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 360.707, \"end\": 360.887, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"山\", \"start\": 360.887, \"end\": 361.227, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"坡\", \"start\": 361.227, \"end\": 361.428, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 361.428, \"end\": 361.588, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 361.588, \"end\": 361.748, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 361.748, \"end\": 361.948, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 361.948, \"end\": 362.428, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 362.428, \"end\": 362.548, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 362.548, \"end\": 362.668, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 362.668, \"end\": 362.828, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 362.828, \"end\": 362.868, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 362.868, \"end\": 363.008, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 363.008, \"end\": 363.309, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 363.309, \"end\": 363.789, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.051, \"end\": 368.651, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 368.651, \"end\": 368.772, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 368.772, \"end\": 368.932, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 368.932, \"end\": 369.092, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 369.092, \"end\": 369.632, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 369.632, \"end\": 369.812, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 369.812, \"end\": 369.972, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 369.972, \"end\": 370.312, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 370.312, \"end\": 370.713, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 370.713, \"end\": 370.873, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 370.873, \"end\": 371.213, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 371.213, \"end\": 371.393, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 371.393, \"end\": 371.573, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 371.573, \"end\": 371.753, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 371.753, \"end\": 371.833, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 371.833, \"end\": 372.033, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 372.033, \"end\": 372.313, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"旨\", \"start\": 372.313, \"end\": 373.034, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 373.034, \"end\": 373.194, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 373.194, \"end\": 374.195, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 374.195, \"end\": 374.515, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 374.515, \"end\": 374.755, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 374.755, \"end\": 374.895, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 374.895, \"end\": 375.135, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 375.135, \"end\": 375.375, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 375.375, \"end\": 375.575, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 375.575, \"end\": 375.735, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 375.735, \"end\": 375.915, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 375.915, \"end\": 376.096, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 376.096, \"end\": 376.276, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 376.276, \"end\": 376.436, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 376.436, \"end\": 376.476, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 376.476, \"end\": 376.636, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"矛\", \"start\": 376.636, \"end\": 376.896, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"盾\", \"start\": 376.896, \"end\": 377.456, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 377.456, \"end\": 377.636, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 377.636, \"end\": 377.917, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 377.917, \"end\": 378.237, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 378.237, \"end\": 378.517, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 378.517, \"end\": 378.697, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 378.697, \"end\": 379.137, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 379.137, \"end\": 379.958, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 379.958, \"end\": 379.978, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"慮\"}]}, {\"start\": 380.598, \"end\": 381.078, \"text\": \"請內政部回答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 380.598, \"end\": 380.698, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 380.698, \"end\": 380.758, \"score\": 0.618}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 380.758, \"end\": 381.058, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 381.058, \"end\": 381.078, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 409.134, \"end\": 430.365, \"text\": \"謝謝委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益我們知道說這個國土計劃法他是在明年的時候要所謂的一併公告目前13個縣市送上來表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計劃的功能分區上面他們願意跟中央政府來多做溝通委員所關心比較多是在於農地方面的處理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 409.134, \"end\": 409.434, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 409.434, \"end\": 409.514, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 409.514, \"end\": 409.914, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 409.914, \"end\": 410.514, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 410.514, \"end\": 410.855, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 410.855, \"end\": 411.015, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 411.015, \"end\": 411.915, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 411.915, \"end\": 412.816, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 412.816, \"end\": 413.076, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 413.076, \"end\": 413.196, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 413.196, \"end\": 413.976, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 413.976, \"end\": 414.436, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 414.436, \"end\": 414.777, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 414.777, \"end\": 414.937, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 414.937, \"end\": 415.077, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 415.077, \"end\": 415.257, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 415.257, \"end\": 415.477, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 415.477, \"end\": 415.657, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 415.657, \"end\": 415.957, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 415.957, \"end\": 416.297, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 416.297, \"end\": 416.638, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 416.638, \"end\": 416.838, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 416.838, \"end\": 416.938, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 416.938, \"end\": 417.258, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"併\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 417.258, \"end\": 417.478, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 417.478, \"end\": 418.178, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 418.178, \"end\": 418.359, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 418.359, \"end\": 419.119, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 419.119, \"end\": 419.299, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 419.299, \"end\": 419.479, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 419.479, \"end\": 419.879, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 419.879, \"end\": 420.019, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 420.019, 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\"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 427.563, \"end\": 427.964, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 427.964, \"end\": 428.124, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 428.124, \"end\": 428.424, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 428.424, \"end\": 428.624, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 428.624, \"end\": 428.764, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 428.764, \"end\": 428.904, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 428.904, \"end\": 429.364, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 429.364, \"end\": 429.624, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 429.624, \"end\": 429.804, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 429.804, \"end\": 429.985, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 429.985, \"end\": 430.345, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 430.345, \"end\": 430.365, \"score\": 0.882}]}, {\"start\": 431.065, \"end\": 435.246, \"text\": \"目前為止 農地的處理還有農業本身的發展在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是跟農業發展好好的把它劃到我們的國土計劃裡面同時針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面我們也認為說他們有討論的空間委員所提到說也許有某一個什麼水庫區域裡面它可能在劃地上面有問題事實上\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 431.065, \"end\": 431.205, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 431.205, \"end\": 431.225, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 431.225, \"end\": 431.325, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 431.325, \"end\": 431.345, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 431.345, \"end\": 431.365, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 431.365, \"end\": 431.385, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 431.385, \"end\": 431.405, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 431.405, \"end\": 431.485, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 431.485, \"end\": 431.505, \"score\": 0.0}, 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{\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 907.655, \"end\": 907.756, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 907.756, \"end\": 907.776, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,741 --> 00:00:15,041\n陳委員好\n\n2\n00:00:30,267 --> 00:00:52,968\n主委長午安辛苦了不會不會我們知道這個就是農業可以說是國家一個很重要的部分那彰化縣是農業也是工業的農工混合大縣那在南彰化呢也是重要的一個農業生產區那目前呢因為就是國土計劃法就是實施在即\n\n3\n00:00:53,869 --> 00:00:53,989\n陳素月議員\n\n4\n00:01:15,343 --> 00:01:15,383\n﹚陳素月\n\n5\n00:01:45,041 --> 00:01:45,622\n李慧琼議員\n\n6\n00:02:02,231 --> 00:02:21,229\n請陳部長說明我跟委員說明其實國土計畫裡面針對農業發展區的部分其實我們都有一個共同的目的就是為了農序永續發展這是非常重要的而且不會讓過往土地的破碎化而造成更嚴重的一個生態的影響\n\n7\n00:02:21,969 --> 00:02:22,370\n國土計畫農業發展區農業農二農三\n\n8\n00:02:35,512 --> 00:02:59,538\n以農業部的一個立場他們這樣子的一個不同的考量是可以持續做溝通的因為化社有化社的原則但是也會依據縣市政府當地所在的產業的需求而調整但是非常重要就是中央跟地方一定會互相去做後續的溝通跟討論這是非常重要的那第三個部分要跟委員說明的就是\n\n9\n00:03:00,559 --> 00:03:19,396\n農業部針對整個農地農用的部分來講是完全沒有影響你只要農地從事農用的部分完全沒有影響那農業部也會持續的針對配合整個國家的希望工程裡面我們會發展以農村為發展中心的一個永續的一個支持系統\n\n10\n00:03:19,957 --> 00:03:20,137\n主席\n\n11\n00:03:41,510 --> 00:04:01,375\n國土計畫法立法要旨提到為了因應氣候變遷確保國土安全保育自然環境與人文資產促進資源與產業合理配置強化國土整合管理機制並賦予環境敏感與國土破壞地區追求國家永續發展\n\n12\n00:04:03,155 --> 00:04:04,576\n國土計畫法實施後可以達到這樣的理想境界嗎?可以解決目前農地面臨問題的萬靈丹嗎?\n\n13\n00:04:22,952 --> 00:04:37,347\n依照剛剛委員所列的施政表國土激發法在公告立法的時候我認為還是會站在一個以國家土地永續利用的這種方式來保存最好的農地的方向來進展\n\n14\n00:04:38,308 --> 00:04:55,180\n但是現在看起來很多國人或是農民對他裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮那這個部分內政部也好農業部也好這期間以來實際上非常積極的在做溝通跟說明那我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效\n\n15\n00:04:55,740 --> 00:04:55,860\n主席\n\n16\n00:05:17,265 --> 00:05:34,507\n當然這是一個問題可是我們就是說就目前已經送出來的就是說或者是已經有草案的這些資料來看我們看出來就是說國土計畫的實施號稱說未來希望就是讓這個農地種量不變就是要追求國家的永續一個發展\n\n17\n00:05:36,168 --> 00:05:36,369\n陳素月議員\n\n18\n00:05:53,423 --> 00:06:19,978\n我們也看到有一個縣市它針對這個水庫的區域它原本目前是屬於山坡地的保育區可是它如果在國土計畫法調整之後它反而變成龍山是可以開發的這樣不是也是違背了我們要追求國土保育的一個要旨嗎所以這個目前就是說我們看到很多存在一些矛盾所以當然會引起民眾的疑慮\n\n19\n00:06:20,598 --> 00:06:21,078\n請內政部回答\n\n20\n00:06:49,134 --> 00:07:10,365\n謝謝委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益我們知道說這個國土計劃法他是在明年的時候要所謂的一併公告目前13個縣市送上來表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計劃的功能分區上面他們願意跟中央政府來多做溝通委員所關心比較多是在於農地方面的處理\n\n21\n00:07:11,065 --> 00:07:15,246\n目前為止農地的處理還有農業本身的發展在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是跟農業發展好好的把它劃到我們的國土計劃裡面同時針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面我們也認為說他們有討論的空間委員所提到說也許有某一個什麼水庫區域裡面它可能在劃地上面有問題事實上\n\n22\n00:07:36,411 --> 00:07:58,679\n在國土計劃法徵政開始實施第11年也就是115年之後我們會有國土的永續發展基金大概目前編列是以500億的方式來解決有關這個環境敏感地區裡面如果碰到國土富裕的時候必須要做其他的補償或其他的相對的對立的措施所以不管是說因應氣候變遷或者是環境保育我們其實一步一步往前走\n\n23\n00:07:59,179 --> 00:07:59,319\n農業部﹚內政部﹚\n\n24\n00:08:15,982 --> 00:08:41,635\n所以委員跟很多其他關心的委員所開的這個記者會我們是一個字一個字在評估當中如果認為國土計劃法有修正的必要的話我們願意從善如流但是所謂的展言的部分並沒有完全解決問題展言的話你沒有辦法對已經繳交國土功能分區表的縣市表示說這個展言對他們有任何其他繼續往前走的部分所以我們在想說有沒有什麼樣的方式讓\n\n25\n00:08:42,495 --> 00:08:42,555\n﹚陳素月﹚\n\n26\n00:09:15,697 --> 00:09:30,749\n國土計畫法目前在進行的當中我們就是就如同我剛剛所舉的兩個點就是我們可以看得出來各地地方政府的一個劃設標準的不一或者是說他們委託公務公司來做只是做這個圖資的套會\n\n27\n00:09:31,389 --> 00:09:31,429\n主席\n\n28\n00:09:53,126 --> 00:09:53,146\n蔣麗芸議員\n\n29\n00:10:12,283 --> 00:10:27,416\n當時總統跟院長都有馬上去勘栽而且都馬上對外宣示說對農業的施的現金救助部分要重塑、重寬、重減可是目前已經過了一個多月快兩個月了目前很多的農民他們都還沒有收到\n\n30\n00:10:27,836 --> 00:10:28,436\n請部長關心\n\n31\n00:10:56,540 --> 00:11:12,155\n我先跟委員說明就是在那個堪比颱風來的時候其實我們做的幾件事情是比過往更快速的就是過往都是地方去勘察以後報到中央以後再公告那這一次我們是由中央的同仁\n\n32\n00:11:12,856 --> 00:11:39,583\n跟地方一起地方看了以後就主動公告那那個時間大概省了7天到10天這個過程那第二個部分就是公告以後本身的因為還是要回到公所去審查那有一部分是免現刊的我們認為他的災情如果有普遍性而且有一致性的時候我們就會公告為免現刊那免現刊的話就不用去現場看你只要有這個跟作的事實\n\n33\n00:11:40,223 --> 00:11:40,323\n我還有兩個問題\n\n34\n00:12:05,186 --> 00:12:30,568\n接下來就是這個農損部分就是拜託部長這邊能夠多加關心讓農民真的可以感受到我們政府對他們照顧的一個心意另外一個問題我想請問一下有關流浪犬的問題就是在我的選區在彰化縣這個流浪犬的數字真的很高那在二水就是有這個愛護動物的善心人士他主動的來提供\n\n35\n00:12:31,028 --> 00:12:31,068\n陳素月議員\n\n36\n00:12:48,027 --> 00:13:16,150\n可是我覺得這個不是他個人的問題因為他也是做義務性的所以這個應該是整個公部門要來解決的問題如果說他今天他也撒手不管的時候那整個市變成風博廣場風博嶺這個風景區就是都是流浪犬在那邊亂竄對旅客遊客也是一個很大的一個威脅所以我們希望就是說在這個流浪犬的一個安置因為我們知道當然就是說目前一個時代的進步我們都\n\n37\n00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:17,010\n陳素月議員陳素月議員\n\n38\n00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:41,480\n陳素月議員\n\n39\n00:13:57,984 --> 00:13:58,284\n李卓人議員\n\n40\n00:14:16,661 --> 00:14:38,087\n所得到訊息就是中午回辦公室的時候那檢調單位針對雞蛋的部分有來請續場會的同仁跟相關的本會的同仁到那個應該是檢調單位那邊去做一些詢問跟約談那至於說到底是什麼樣的方式我想因為政察不公開的方式我不便說明\n\n41\n00:14:38,643 --> 00:14:38,683\n陳副部長\n\n42\n00:15:07,655 --> 00:15:07,776\n陳素月議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14741\t15041\t陳委員好\n30267\t52968\t主委長午安辛苦了不會不會我們知道這個就是農業可以說是國家一個很重要的部分那彰化縣是農業也是工業的農工混合大縣那在南彰化呢也是重要的一個農業生產區那目前呢因為就是國土計劃法就是實施在即\n53869\t53989\t陳素月議員\n75343\t75383\t﹚陳素月\n105041\t105622\t李慧琼議員\n122231\t141229\t請陳部長說明我跟委員說明其實國土計畫裡面針對農業發展區的部分其實我們都有一個共同的目的就是為了農序永續發展這是非常重要的而且不會讓過往土地的破碎化而造成更嚴重的一個生態的影響\n141969\t142370\t國土計畫 農業發展區 農業 農二 農三\n155512\t179538\t以農業部的一個立場他們這樣子的一個不同的考量是可以持續做溝通的因為化社有化社的原則但是也會依據縣市政府當地所在的產業的需求而調整但是非常重要就是中央跟地方一定會互相去做後續的溝通跟討論這是非常重要的那第三個部分要跟委員說明的就是\n180559\t199396\t農業部針對整個農地農用的部分來講是完全沒有影響你只要農地從事農用的部分完全沒有影響那農業部也會持續的針對配合整個國家的希望工程裡面我們會發展以農村為發展中心的一個永續的一個支持系統\n199957\t200137\t主席\n221510\t241375\t國土計畫法 立法要旨提到為了因應氣候變遷 確保國土安全保育自然環境與人文資產促進資源與產業合理配置強化國土整合管理機制並賦予環境敏感與國土破壞地區追求國家永續發展\n243155\t244576\t國土計畫法實施後可以達到這樣的理想境界嗎?可以解決目前農地面臨問題的萬靈丹嗎?\n262952\t277347\t依照剛剛委員所列的施政表國土激發法在公告立法的時候我認為還是會站在一個以國家土地永續利用的這種方式來保存最好的農地的方向來進展\n278308\t295180\t但是現在看起來很多國人或是農民對他裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮那這個部分內政部也好農業部也好這期間以來實際上非常積極的在做溝通跟說明那我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效\n295740\t295860\t主席\n317265\t334507\t當然這是一個問題可是我們就是說就目前已經送出來的就是說或者是已經有草案的這些資料來看我們看出來就是說國土計畫的實施號稱說未來希望就是讓這個農地種量不變就是要追求國家的永續一個發展\n336168\t336369\t陳素月議員\n353423\t379978\t我們也看到有一個縣市它針對這個水庫的區域它原本目前是屬於山坡地的保育區可是它如果在國土計畫法調整之後它反而變成龍山是可以開發的這樣不是也是違背了我們要追求國土保育的一個要旨嗎所以這個目前就是說我們看到很多存在一些矛盾所以當然會引起民眾的疑慮\n380598\t381078\t請內政部回答\n409134\t430365\t謝謝委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益我們知道說這個國土計劃法他是在明年的時候要所謂的一併公告目前13個縣市送上來表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計劃的功能分區上面他們願意跟中央政府來多做溝通委員所關心比較多是在於農地方面的處理\n431065\t435246\t目前為止 農地的處理還有農業本身的發展在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是跟農業發展好好的把它劃到我們的國土計劃裡面同時針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面我們也認為說他們有討論的空間委員所提到說也許有某一個什麼水庫區域裡面它可能在劃地上面有問題事實上\n456411\t478679\t在國土計劃法徵政開始實施第11年也就是115年之後我們會有國土的永續發展基金大概目前編列是以500億的方式來解決有關這個環境敏感地區裡面如果碰到國土富裕的時候必須要做其他的補償或其他的相對的對立的措施所以不管是說因應氣候變遷或者是環境保育我們其實一步一步往前走\n479179\t479319\t農業部﹚內政部﹚\n495982\t521635\t所以委員跟很多其他關心的委員所開的這個記者會我們是一個字一個字在評估當中如果認為國土計劃法有修正的必要的話我們願意從善如流但是所謂的展言的部分並沒有完全解決問題展言的話你沒有辦法對已經繳交國土功能分區表的縣市表示說這個展言對他們有任何其他繼續往前走的部分所以我們在想說有沒有什麼樣的方式讓\n522495\t522555\t﹚陳素月﹚\n555697\t570749\t國土計畫法目前在進行的當中我們就是就如同我剛剛所舉的兩個點就是我們可以看得出來各地地方政府的一個劃設標準的不一或者是說他們委託公務公司來做只是做這個圖資的套會\n571389\t571429\t主席\n593126\t593146\t蔣麗芸議員\n612283\t627416\t當時總統跟院長都有馬上去勘栽而且都馬上對外宣示說對農業的施的現金救助部分要重塑、重寬、重減可是目前已經過了一個多月快兩個月了目前很多的農民他們都還沒有收到\n627836\t628436\t請部長關心\n656540\t672155\t我先跟委員說明就是在那個堪比颱風來的時候其實我們做的幾件事情是比過往更快速的就是過往都是地方去勘察以後報到中央以後再公告那這一次我們是由中央的同仁\n672856\t699583\t跟地方一起地方看了以後就主動公告那那個時間大概省了7天到10天這個過程那第二個部分就是公告以後本身的因為還是要回到公所去審查那有一部分是免現刊的我們認為他的災情如果有普遍性而且有一致性的時候我們就會公告為免現刊那免現刊的話就不用去現場看你只要有這個跟作的事實\n700223\t700323\t我還有兩個問題\n725186\t750568\t接下來就是這個農損部分就是拜託部長這邊能夠多加關心讓農民真的可以感受到我們政府對他們照顧的一個心意另外一個問題我想請問一下有關流浪犬的問題就是在我的選區在彰化縣這個流浪犬的數字真的很高那在二水就是有這個愛護動物的善心人士他主動的來提供\n751028\t751068\t陳素月議員\n768027\t796150\t可是我覺得這個不是他個人的問題因為他也是做義務性的所以這個應該是整個公部門要來解決的問題如果說他今天他也撒手不管的時候那整個市變成風博廣場風博嶺這個風景區就是都是流浪犬在那邊亂竄對旅客 遊客也是一個很大的一個威脅所以我們希望就是說在這個流浪犬的一個安置因為我們知道當然就是說目前一個時代的進步我們都\n796550\t797010\t陳素月議員陳素月議員\n821340\t821480\t陳素月議員\n837984\t838284\t李卓人議員\n856661\t878087\t所得到訊息就是中午回辦公室的時候那檢調單位針對雞蛋的部分有來請續場會的同仁跟相關的本會的同仁到那個應該是檢調單位那邊去做一些詢問跟約談那至於說到底是什麼樣的方式我想因為政察不公開的方式我不便說明\n878643\t878683\t陳副部長\n907655\t907776\t陳素月議員\n","txt":"陳委員好\n主委長午安辛苦了不會不會我們知道這個就是農業可以說是國家一個很重要的部分那彰化縣是農業也是工業的農工混合大縣那在南彰化呢也是重要的一個農業生產區那目前呢因為就是國土計劃法就是實施在即\n陳素月議員\n﹚陳素月\n李慧琼議員\n請陳部長說明我跟委員說明其實國土計畫裡面針對農業發展區的部分其實我們都有一個共同的目的就是為了農序永續發展這是非常重要的而且不會讓過往土地的破碎化而造成更嚴重的一個生態的影響\n國土計畫 農業發展區 農業 農二 農三\n以農業部的一個立場他們這樣子的一個不同的考量是可以持續做溝通的因為化社有化社的原則但是也會依據縣市政府當地所在的產業的需求而調整但是非常重要就是中央跟地方一定會互相去做後續的溝通跟討論這是非常重要的那第三個部分要跟委員說明的就是\n農業部針對整個農地農用的部分來講是完全沒有影響你只要農地從事農用的部分完全沒有影響那農業部也會持續的針對配合整個國家的希望工程裡面我們會發展以農村為發展中心的一個永續的一個支持系統\n主席\n國土計畫法 立法要旨提到為了因應氣候變遷 確保國土安全保育自然環境與人文資產促進資源與產業合理配置強化國土整合管理機制並賦予環境敏感與國土破壞地區追求國家永續發展\n國土計畫法實施後可以達到這樣的理想境界嗎?可以解決目前農地面臨問題的萬靈丹嗎?\n依照剛剛委員所列的施政表國土激發法在公告立法的時候我認為還是會站在一個以國家土地永續利用的這種方式來保存最好的農地的方向來進展\n但是現在看起來很多國人或是農民對他裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮那這個部分內政部也好農業部也好這期間以來實際上非常積極的在做溝通跟說明那我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效\n主席\n當然這是一個問題可是我們就是說就目前已經送出來的就是說或者是已經有草案的這些資料來看我們看出來就是說國土計畫的實施號稱說未來希望就是讓這個農地種量不變就是要追求國家的永續一個發展\n陳素月議員\n我們也看到有一個縣市它針對這個水庫的區域它原本目前是屬於山坡地的保育區可是它如果在國土計畫法調整之後它反而變成龍山是可以開發的這樣不是也是違背了我們要追求國土保育的一個要旨嗎所以這個目前就是說我們看到很多存在一些矛盾所以當然會引起民眾的疑慮\n請內政部回答\n謝謝委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益我們知道說這個國土計劃法他是在明年的時候要所謂的一併公告目前13個縣市送上來表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計劃的功能分區上面他們願意跟中央政府來多做溝通委員所關心比較多是在於農地方面的處理\n目前為止 農地的處理還有農業本身的發展在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是跟農業發展好好的把它劃到我們的國土計劃裡面同時針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面我們也認為說他們有討論的空間委員所提到說也許有某一個什麼水庫區域裡面它可能在劃地上面有問題事實上\n在國土計劃法徵政開始實施第11年也就是115年之後我們會有國土的永續發展基金大概目前編列是以500億的方式來解決有關這個環境敏感地區裡面如果碰到國土富裕的時候必須要做其他的補償或其他的相對的對立的措施所以不管是說因應氣候變遷或者是環境保育我們其實一步一步往前走\n農業部﹚內政部﹚\n所以委員跟很多其他關心的委員所開的這個記者會我們是一個字一個字在評估當中如果認為國土計劃法有修正的必要的話我們願意從善如流但是所謂的展言的部分並沒有完全解決問題展言的話你沒有辦法對已經繳交國土功能分區表的縣市表示說這個展言對他們有任何其他繼續往前走的部分所以我們在想說有沒有什麼樣的方式讓\n﹚陳素月﹚\n國土計畫法目前在進行的當中我們就是就如同我剛剛所舉的兩個點就是我們可以看得出來各地地方政府的一個劃設標準的不一或者是說他們委託公務公司來做只是做這個圖資的套會\n主席\n蔣麗芸議員\n當時總統跟院長都有馬上去勘栽而且都馬上對外宣示說對農業的施的現金救助部分要重塑、重寬、重減可是目前已經過了一個多月快兩個月了目前很多的農民他們都還沒有收到\n請部長關心\n我先跟委員說明就是在那個堪比颱風來的時候其實我們做的幾件事情是比過往更快速的就是過往都是地方去勘察以後報到中央以後再公告那這一次我們是由中央的同仁\n跟地方一起地方看了以後就主動公告那那個時間大概省了7天到10天這個過程那第二個部分就是公告以後本身的因為還是要回到公所去審查那有一部分是免現刊的我們認為他的災情如果有普遍性而且有一致性的時候我們就會公告為免現刊那免現刊的話就不用去現場看你只要有這個跟作的事實\n我還有兩個問題\n接下來就是這個農損部分就是拜託部長這邊能夠多加關心讓農民真的可以感受到我們政府對他們照顧的一個心意另外一個問題我想請問一下有關流浪犬的問題就是在我的選區在彰化縣這個流浪犬的數字真的很高那在二水就是有這個愛護動物的善心人士他主動的來提供\n陳素月議員\n可是我覺得這個不是他個人的問題因為他也是做義務性的所以這個應該是整個公部門要來解決的問題如果說他今天他也撒手不管的時候那整個市變成風博廣場風博嶺這個風景區就是都是流浪犬在那邊亂竄對旅客 遊客也是一個很大的一個威脅所以我們希望就是說在這個流浪犬的一個安置因為我們知道當然就是說目前一個時代的進步我們都\n陳素月議員陳素月議員\n陳素月議員\n李卓人議員\n所得到訊息就是中午回辦公室的時候那檢調單位針對雞蛋的部分有來請續場會的同仁跟相關的本會的同仁到那個應該是檢調單位那邊去做一些詢問跟約談那至於說到底是什麼樣的方式我想因為政察不公開的方式我不便說明\n陳副部長\n陳素月議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.741 --> 00:15.041\n陳委員好\n\n00:30.267 --> 00:52.968\n主委長午安辛苦了不會不會我們知道這個就是農業可以說是國家一個很重要的部分那彰化縣是農業也是工業的農工混合大縣那在南彰化呢也是重要的一個農業生產區那目前呢因為就是國土計劃法就是實施在即\n\n00:53.869 --> 00:53.989\n陳素月議員\n\n01:15.343 --> 01:15.383\n﹚陳素月\n\n01:45.041 --> 01:45.622\n李慧琼議員\n\n02:02.231 --> 02:21.229\n請陳部長說明我跟委員說明其實國土計畫裡面針對農業發展區的部分其實我們都有一個共同的目的就是為了農序永續發展這是非常重要的而且不會讓過往土地的破碎化而造成更嚴重的一個生態的影響\n\n02:21.969 --> 02:22.370\n國土計畫農業發展區農業農二農三\n\n02:35.512 --> 02:59.538\n以農業部的一個立場他們這樣子的一個不同的考量是可以持續做溝通的因為化社有化社的原則但是也會依據縣市政府當地所在的產業的需求而調整但是非常重要就是中央跟地方一定會互相去做後續的溝通跟討論這是非常重要的那第三個部分要跟委員說明的就是\n\n03:00.559 --> 03:19.396\n農業部針對整個農地農用的部分來講是完全沒有影響你只要農地從事農用的部分完全沒有影響那農業部也會持續的針對配合整個國家的希望工程裡面我們會發展以農村為發展中心的一個永續的一個支持系統\n\n03:19.957 --> 03:20.137\n主席\n\n03:41.510 --> 04:01.375\n國土計畫法立法要旨提到為了因應氣候變遷確保國土安全保育自然環境與人文資產促進資源與產業合理配置強化國土整合管理機制並賦予環境敏感與國土破壞地區追求國家永續發展\n\n04:03.155 --> 04:04.576\n國土計畫法實施後可以達到這樣的理想境界嗎?可以解決目前農地面臨問題的萬靈丹嗎?\n\n04:22.952 --> 04:37.347\n依照剛剛委員所列的施政表國土激發法在公告立法的時候我認為還是會站在一個以國家土地永續利用的這種方式來保存最好的農地的方向來進展\n\n04:38.308 --> 04:55.180\n但是現在看起來很多國人或是農民對他裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮那這個部分內政部也好農業部也好這期間以來實際上非常積極的在做溝通跟說明那我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效\n\n04:55.740 --> 04:55.860\n主席\n\n05:17.265 --> 05:34.507\n當然這是一個問題可是我們就是說就目前已經送出來的就是說或者是已經有草案的這些資料來看我們看出來就是說國土計畫的實施號稱說未來希望就是讓這個農地種量不變就是要追求國家的永續一個發展\n\n05:36.168 --> 05:36.369\n陳素月議員\n\n05:53.423 --> 06:19.978\n我們也看到有一個縣市它針對這個水庫的區域它原本目前是屬於山坡地的保育區可是它如果在國土計畫法調整之後它反而變成龍山是可以開發的這樣不是也是違背了我們要追求國土保育的一個要旨嗎所以這個目前就是說我們看到很多存在一些矛盾所以當然會引起民眾的疑慮\n\n06:20.598 --> 06:21.078\n請內政部回答\n\n06:49.134 --> 07:10.365\n謝謝委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益我們知道說這個國土計劃法他是在明年的時候要所謂的一併公告目前13個縣市送上來表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計劃的功能分區上面他們願意跟中央政府來多做溝通委員所關心比較多是在於農地方面的處理\n\n07:11.065 --> 07:15.246\n目前為止農地的處理還有農業本身的發展在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是跟農業發展好好的把它劃到我們的國土計劃裡面同時針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面我們也認為說他們有討論的空間委員所提到說也許有某一個什麼水庫區域裡面它可能在劃地上面有問題事實上\n\n07:36.411 --> 07:58.679\n在國土計劃法徵政開始實施第11年也就是115年之後我們會有國土的永續發展基金大概目前編列是以500億的方式來解決有關這個環境敏感地區裡面如果碰到國土富裕的時候必須要做其他的補償或其他的相對的對立的措施所以不管是說因應氣候變遷或者是環境保育我們其實一步一步往前走\n\n07:59.179 --> 07:59.319\n農業部﹚內政部﹚\n\n08:15.982 --> 08:41.635\n所以委員跟很多其他關心的委員所開的這個記者會我們是一個字一個字在評估當中如果認為國土計劃法有修正的必要的話我們願意從善如流但是所謂的展言的部分並沒有完全解決問題展言的話你沒有辦法對已經繳交國土功能分區表的縣市表示說這個展言對他們有任何其他繼續往前走的部分所以我們在想說有沒有什麼樣的方式讓\n\n08:42.495 --> 08:42.555\n﹚陳素月﹚\n\n09:15.697 --> 09:30.749\n國土計畫法目前在進行的當中我們就是就如同我剛剛所舉的兩個點就是我們可以看得出來各地地方政府的一個劃設標準的不一或者是說他們委託公務公司來做只是做這個圖資的套會\n\n09:31.389 --> 09:31.429\n主席\n\n09:53.126 --> 09:53.146\n蔣麗芸議員\n\n10:12.283 --> 10:27.416\n當時總統跟院長都有馬上去勘栽而且都馬上對外宣示說對農業的施的現金救助部分要重塑、重寬、重減可是目前已經過了一個多月快兩個月了目前很多的農民他們都還沒有收到\n\n10:27.836 --> 10:28.436\n請部長關心\n\n10:56.540 --> 11:12.155\n我先跟委員說明就是在那個堪比颱風來的時候其實我們做的幾件事情是比過往更快速的就是過往都是地方去勘察以後報到中央以後再公告那這一次我們是由中央的同仁\n\n11:12.856 --> 11:39.583\n跟地方一起地方看了以後就主動公告那那個時間大概省了7天到10天這個過程那第二個部分就是公告以後本身的因為還是要回到公所去審查那有一部分是免現刊的我們認為他的災情如果有普遍性而且有一致性的時候我們就會公告為免現刊那免現刊的話就不用去現場看你只要有這個跟作的事實\n\n11:40.223 --> 11:40.323\n我還有兩個問題\n\n12:05.186 --> 12:30.568\n接下來就是這個農損部分就是拜託部長這邊能夠多加關心讓農民真的可以感受到我們政府對他們照顧的一個心意另外一個問題我想請問一下有關流浪犬的問題就是在我的選區在彰化縣這個流浪犬的數字真的很高那在二水就是有這個愛護動物的善心人士他主動的來提供\n\n12:31.028 --> 12:31.068\n陳素月議員\n\n12:48.027 --> 13:16.150\n可是我覺得這個不是他個人的問題因為他也是做義務性的所以這個應該是整個公部門要來解決的問題如果說他今天他也撒手不管的時候那整個市變成風博廣場風博嶺這個風景區就是都是流浪犬在那邊亂竄對旅客遊客也是一個很大的一個威脅所以我們希望就是說在這個流浪犬的一個安置因為我們知道當然就是說目前一個時代的進步我們都\n\n13:16.550 --> 13:17.010\n陳素月議員陳素月議員\n\n13:41.340 --> 13:41.480\n陳素月議員\n\n13:57.984 --> 13:58.284\n李卓人議員\n\n14:16.661 --> 14:38.087\n所得到訊息就是中午回辦公室的時候那檢調單位針對雞蛋的部分有來請續場會的同仁跟相關的本會的同仁到那個應該是檢調單位那邊去做一些詢問跟約談那至於說到底是什麼樣的方式我想因為政察不公開的方式我不便說明\n\n14:38.643 --> 14:38.683\n陳副部長\n\n15:07.655 --> 15:07.776\n陳素月議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.741,"end":15.041,"text":"陳委員好"},{"start":30.267,"end":52.968,"text":"主委長午安辛苦了不會不會我們知道這個就是農業可以說是國家一個很重要的部分那彰化縣是農業也是工業的農工混合大縣那在南彰化呢也是重要的一個農業生產區那目前呢因為就是國土計劃法就是實施在即"},{"start":53.869,"end":53.989,"text":"陳素月議員"},{"start":75.343,"end":75.383,"text":"﹚陳素月"},{"start":105.041,"end":105.622,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":122.231,"end":141.229,"text":"請陳部長說明我跟委員說明其實國土計畫裡面針對農業發展區的部分其實我們都有一個共同的目的就是為了農序永續發展這是非常重要的而且不會讓過往土地的破碎化而造成更嚴重的一個生態的影響"},{"start":141.969,"end":142.37,"text":"國土計畫 農業發展區 農業 農二 農三"},{"start":155.512,"end":179.538,"text":"以農業部的一個立場他們這樣子的一個不同的考量是可以持續做溝通的因為化社有化社的原則但是也會依據縣市政府當地所在的產業的需求而調整但是非常重要就是中央跟地方一定會互相去做後續的溝通跟討論這是非常重要的那第三個部分要跟委員說明的就是"},{"start":180.559,"end":199.396,"text":"農業部針對整個農地農用的部分來講是完全沒有影響你只要農地從事農用的部分完全沒有影響那農業部也會持續的針對配合整個國家的希望工程裡面我們會發展以農村為發展中心的一個永續的一個支持系統"},{"start":199.957,"end":200.137,"text":"主席"},{"start":221.51,"end":241.375,"text":"國土計畫法 立法要旨提到為了因應氣候變遷 確保國土安全保育自然環境與人文資產促進資源與產業合理配置強化國土整合管理機制並賦予環境敏感與國土破壞地區追求國家永續發展"},{"start":243.155,"end":244.576,"text":"國土計畫法實施後可以達到這樣的理想境界嗎?可以解決目前農地面臨問題的萬靈丹嗎?"},{"start":262.952,"end":277.347,"text":"依照剛剛委員所列的施政表國土激發法在公告立法的時候我認為還是會站在一個以國家土地永續利用的這種方式來保存最好的農地的方向來進展"},{"start":278.308,"end":295.18,"text":"但是現在看起來很多國人或是農民對他裡面的一些文字等等的解釋都會產生疑慮那這個部分內政部也好農業部也好這期間以來實際上非常積極的在做溝通跟說明那我們也希望這個溝通說明能夠有效"},{"start":295.74,"end":295.86,"text":"主席"},{"start":317.265,"end":334.507,"text":"當然這是一個問題可是我們就是說就目前已經送出來的就是說或者是已經有草案的這些資料來看我們看出來就是說國土計畫的實施號稱說未來希望就是讓這個農地種量不變就是要追求國家的永續一個發展"},{"start":336.168,"end":336.369,"text":"陳素月議員"},{"start":353.423,"end":379.978,"text":"我們也看到有一個縣市它針對這個水庫的區域它原本目前是屬於山坡地的保育區可是它如果在國土計畫法調整之後它反而變成龍山是可以開發的這樣不是也是違背了我們要追求國土保育的一個要旨嗎所以這個目前就是說我們看到很多存在一些矛盾所以當然會引起民眾的疑慮"},{"start":380.598,"end":381.078,"text":"請內政部回答"},{"start":409.134,"end":430.365,"text":"謝謝委員非常關心農業跟農民的權益我們知道說這個國土計劃法他是在明年的時候要所謂的一併公告目前13個縣市送上來表示13個縣市他們在有關於國土計劃的功能分區上面他們願意跟中央政府來多做溝通委員所關心比較多是在於農地方面的處理"},{"start":431.065,"end":435.246,"text":"目前為止 農地的處理還有農業本身的發展在我們的檢討當中我們認為應該把鄉村規劃或是跟農業發展好好的把它劃到我們的國土計劃裡面同時針對已經送上來的13個縣市政府裡面我們也認為說他們有討論的空間委員所提到說也許有某一個什麼水庫區域裡面它可能在劃地上面有問題事實上"},{"start":456.411,"end":478.679,"text":"在國土計劃法徵政開始實施第11年也就是115年之後我們會有國土的永續發展基金大概目前編列是以500億的方式來解決有關這個環境敏感地區裡面如果碰到國土富裕的時候必須要做其他的補償或其他的相對的對立的措施所以不管是說因應氣候變遷或者是環境保育我們其實一步一步往前走"},{"start":479.179,"end":479.319,"text":"農業部﹚內政部﹚"},{"start":495.982,"end":521.635,"text":"所以委員跟很多其他關心的委員所開的這個記者會我們是一個字一個字在評估當中如果認為國土計劃法有修正的必要的話我們願意從善如流但是所謂的展言的部分並沒有完全解決問題展言的話你沒有辦法對已經繳交國土功能分區表的縣市表示說這個展言對他們有任何其他繼續往前走的部分所以我們在想說有沒有什麼樣的方式讓"},{"start":522.495,"end":522.555,"text":"﹚陳素月﹚"},{"start":555.697,"end":570.749,"text":"國土計畫法目前在進行的當中我們就是就如同我剛剛所舉的兩個點就是我們可以看得出來各地地方政府的一個劃設標準的不一或者是說他們委託公務公司來做只是做這個圖資的套會"},{"start":571.389,"end":571.429,"text":"主席"},{"start":593.126,"end":593.146,"text":"蔣麗芸議員"},{"start":612.283,"end":627.416,"text":"當時總統跟院長都有馬上去勘栽而且都馬上對外宣示說對農業的施的現金救助部分要重塑、重寬、重減可是目前已經過了一個多月快兩個月了目前很多的農民他們都還沒有收到"},{"start":627.836,"end":628.436,"text":"請部長關心"},{"start":656.54,"end":672.155,"text":"我先跟委員說明就是在那個堪比颱風來的時候其實我們做的幾件事情是比過往更快速的就是過往都是地方去勘察以後報到中央以後再公告那這一次我們是由中央的同仁"},{"start":672.856,"end":699.583,"text":"跟地方一起地方看了以後就主動公告那那個時間大概省了7天到10天這個過程那第二個部分就是公告以後本身的因為還是要回到公所去審查那有一部分是免現刊的我們認為他的災情如果有普遍性而且有一致性的時候我們就會公告為免現刊那免現刊的話就不用去現場看你只要有這個跟作的事實"},{"start":700.223,"end":700.323,"text":"我還有兩個問題"},{"start":725.186,"end":750.568,"text":"接下來就是這個農損部分就是拜託部長這邊能夠多加關心讓農民真的可以感受到我們政府對他們照顧的一個心意另外一個問題我想請問一下有關流浪犬的問題就是在我的選區在彰化縣這個流浪犬的數字真的很高那在二水就是有這個愛護動物的善心人士他主動的來提供"},{"start":751.028,"end":751.068,"text":"陳素月議員"},{"start":768.027,"end":796.15,"text":"可是我覺得這個不是他個人的問題因為他也是做義務性的所以這個應該是整個公部門要來解決的問題如果說他今天他也撒手不管的時候那整個市變成風博廣場風博嶺這個風景區就是都是流浪犬在那邊亂竄對旅客 遊客也是一個很大的一個威脅所以我們希望就是說在這個流浪犬的一個安置因為我們知道當然就是說目前一個時代的進步我們都"},{"start":796.55,"end":797.01,"text":"陳素月議員陳素月議員"},{"start":821.34,"end":821.48,"text":"陳素月議員"},{"start":837.984,"end":838.284,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":856.661,"end":878.087,"text":"所得到訊息就是中午回辦公室的時候那檢調單位針對雞蛋的部分有來請續場會的同仁跟相關的本會的同仁到那個應該是檢調單位那邊去做一些詢問跟約談那至於說到底是什麼樣的方式我想因為政察不公開的方式我不便說明"},{"start":878.643,"end":878.683,"text":"陳副部長"},{"start":907.655,"end":907.776,"text":"陳素月議員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-1","title":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-24T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"17:02:27 - 17:17:51","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢）","id":154884}