{"date":"2024-09-24","影片長度":"00:30:42","end_time":"2024-09-24T17:02:13+08:00","type":"Clip","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154885","gazette":{"lineno":606,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（16時31分）謝謝大會主席，我們請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：院長好。院長，首先一開始也要關心上個禮拜司法院判決出來有關死刑存廢的問題，當然司法院雖然說死刑合憲，但是要求各審級合議庭法官的意見必須一致。我想是這樣，在這個判決裡面有提到，法院組織法沒有明定要合議庭法官一致才可以判處死刑，這件事情違反了正當法律程序原則，那我想問一下，意思是在三審裡面的所有法官都要判決一致才符合正當法律程序原則，是這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：依照憲法法庭解釋出來的文字來看，它有這樣的期待，就是要一致決，至於程序上的問題，我們往後還會有相當一段時間要進行各種修法，這個細節部分法務部已經在研究當中。"],["黃委員健豪：我想如同院長剛剛所說的，其實這部分我也覺得很疑惑，可是如果要針對程序問題要求到這麼細緻的話，它本質上是立法問題，不應該是司法解釋的問題。這個判決裡面也講相關機關兩年內要提出相關修法，但是從民調看得很清楚，84%、85%的民眾是反對廢除死刑的，今天如果相關機關要提出相關修法的話，請問行政院或法務部，你們算不算相關機關？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這個一致決是屬於評議審判事務，規定在法院組織法中，是屬於司法院主管的一個法規，所以要由司法院來主政。"],["黃委員健豪：所以到時候所謂的修法版本不會有你們院版，就是不會有行政院的版本？"],["鄭部長銘謙：司法院修法後會會銜行政院提出。"],["黃委員健豪：那行政院會提出版本嗎？還是全部都是司法院來提？"],["鄭部長銘謙：主政的是司法院，所以司法院會會銜行政院再送立法院審議。"],["黃委員健豪：那你法務部的立場是什麼？因為到時候一定會徵詢你們意見嘛。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分在進行法制作業的時候，我會再提出我們的意見。"],["黃委員健豪：因為這個判決提出來，雖然說死刑是合憲的，但其實已經是實質廢死了，本席要在這邊講，這東西如果要送到立法院，你們是民選政府的官員，我們是民意代表，我們是人民投票投出來的，這麼多民眾反對這件事情，我真的不知道到時候送進立法院，不管在委員會審查也好，在大院討論也好，我們立法委員要怎麼去審這個法案。不知道部長或院長有什麼樣的想法可以教我們，我們要怎麼樣去立這個法，我們要怎麼樣把法律修到可以滿足大法官的這個判決？司法院這個判決等於凌駕立法院，等於凌駕行政院的版本！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我並不認為現在等於就是把它說成是「實質廢死」，用4個字來形容，原則上它是有條件的合憲，我們在這個有條件合憲的框架底下，把一些程序讓它完備。完備程序的目的，在於不要造成冤枉的判決，但是我們在完備的過程當中，可以對很多的過程，比方我們可以慎重對這些重大案件的各種事後的一些檢驗，包括它是不是經過一定的鑑定，這個鑑定的過程也要跟社會能夠非常地接受；再來就是我們可以改變一下拘禁的方式，用終身拘禁取代無期徒刑這樣的方式，這都是未來司法跟行政院當中，乃至於跟立法院、大院當中，我們互相可以討論的很多重點。所以原則上我不認為這就是實質廢死，就是有條件，我們一定會把條件讓它更合理化。"],["黃委員健豪：好，沒關係，院長，我想你現在的立場一直覺得要跟民眾、跟立法院溝通，我就看看這兩年到底要怎麼樣溝通，才能夠讓民眾接受要歷審一致決的這個版本。","另外我要提醒一件事情，如果歷審一致決才能夠符合所謂正當法律程序原則的話，那是不是其他的刑責、其他的法律、相關的法律不是只有死刑，那竊盜呢？強盜呢？這類是不是歷審都要一致，它才符合正當法律程序原則？"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員所提的，這是屬於實體面的一個問題，那個正當法律程序是要在刑事訴訟法做規範。"],["黃委員健豪：我是說，所以對於強盜或其他的刑事罪責，是不是也都歷審要一致，它才能夠符合？"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果今天判處死刑、最嚴重的那個罪刑，如果法院要判處死刑的話，根據憲法法庭憲判第8號的規定、判決的意旨，這個是要一致決，這個是屬於從一審、二審到最高法院，都要所有的法官、合議庭的法官就要做一致決才能判處死刑。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，還有一個意見，其實過去我們都知道法院是三級三審制，如果今天地方法院一審裡面，光是一審裡面法官就覺得不需要的時候，他上訴到後面的二審、三審之後，那你等於剝奪了二審、三審的權利了啊！過去本來二審、三審可能可以跟一審有不一樣的結果，如果今天一審裡面就已經有法官不認為他被判處死刑是合理的，如果有法官覺得他不該被判處死刑，所以後面的二審、三審等於也被限制了相關權利嘛！那不就實質廢死了嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分檢察官收到判決會斟酌上訴。"],["黃委員健豪：不是，部長，我請教一下專業問題嘛！如果今天一審有法官認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑，所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了，那二審、三審的法官即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性，是不是也無解？"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有這個問題。一審的話，如果他應該判死刑，沒有判死刑的話，我想檢察官會請求上訴，或被害人家屬會請求檢察官上訴，我們會審酌，檢察官會審酌那個判決、法官的判決量刑是否妥適。"],["黃委員健豪：所以你的歷審一致決的這個部分，是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都要一致嗎？或者不是？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，那個憲判……"],["黃委員健豪：三級三審繼續維持嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是憲判字8號的判決意旨，是一、二、三審全部都要一致決。"],["黃委員健豪：對啊！我就說你要一致決，所以如果地方法院在第一審的時候，就是有法官覺得他不該判處死刑，那檢察官如果覺得……也因為過去是這樣嘛！過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪刑重大，但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑，上訴到高院，高院如果能夠判處他死刑，那是不是就有死刑的問題？那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑，檢察官即便上訴了，到二審之後，二審的法官也不能推翻一審的這件事情吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個不一定，要看個案。如果一審的話應該一致……那個一致決，是要判死刑才有一致決的問題，如果不是判死刑就沒有一致決的問題。譬如一個最重的判刑，如果一審的法院是判無期徒刑，如果檢察官不服，或被害人的家屬可以請求檢察官上訴，上訴到二審，當然以憲判第8號的判決意旨，二審的話判死刑，要一致決，所以合議庭的3個法官都要認為就是要判死刑，才可以……"],["黃委員健豪：當然，我可以確認，這個東西我想民眾都非常關心，所以才利用這麼多時間來跟你們就教。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想這個我們大家都很關心，法務部也是非常關心這件事情。"],["黃委員健豪：二審的合議庭法官如果都決定要判處死刑，如果啦，假設某個個案是這樣子，但是一審的時候他沒有被判處死刑，這件事情到底是有還是沒有？他這樣能不能被執行？"],["鄭部長銘謙：實務上會有這種情形啊！二審的話，如果說認為一審的判決並非妥適或者說違法的話，二審可以改判。"],["黃委員健豪：二審可以改判嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：可以改判。"],["黃委員健豪：所以所謂的歷審一致決就不存在了嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：規定是要一致決才能判死刑啊！但是如果一致決他不判死刑的話，我們還是可以上訴啊，二審也是一致決可以判死刑啊！"],["黃委員健豪：所以二審一致決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑，跟一審無關？"],["鄭部長銘謙：不是，因為不服一審的才有上訴到二審嘛！二審審核如果一審原來的判決非合法妥適，這樣的話，可以改判為死刑，只要一致決，可以改判為死刑。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，謝謝。我們後面繼續來討論這個問題，謝謝部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員的意思是說，一、二、三審都要一致決……"],["黃委員健豪：對啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：判死刑都要一致決。這是不是在憲判字第8號的解釋文上面引申為這樣的說法，我認為一定會引起很多的討論，我們再看看很多的法律專家……"],["黃委員健豪：所以這個說法並不一定是正確的，並不一定是照它字面上的說法？"],["卓院長榮泰：一定會引起討論啦！"],["黃委員健豪：所以法還會再修嘛！好，謝謝。","接下來要談論一下地方建設。部長，謝謝。","我們也有關注行政院新任陳世凱部長的臉書，我看他前兩天發了一個Reels，講到響應世界無車日，呼籲民眾乘坐公共運輸工具，我截圖有截到他所在的位置在台北捷運的藍線，剛好明年的預算裡面也編列了臺中捷運的藍線。部長出生在臺中，也很清楚知道，今天如果身為一個臺中市民，他想要響應部長的呼籲、響應院長的呼籲，來響應這個世界無車日，但卻只有一條捷運可以搭乘的話，我想就很難去達到這個目標。所以我今天要提到，在臺中市的整體捷運路網裡面，捷運藍線當然是預計明年要來動工，但是我看目前送進來的院版預算（當然，現在在程序委員會被退回），比例非常懸殊，我想請問一下，為什麼比例那麼懸殊？就是明年臺中捷運的藍線，中央政府只編了5億，地方編了88億，這是什麼樣的狀況？為什麼比例那麼懸殊？未來捷運預計要蓋10年，是每年都會照這個比例去做，還是未來中央能夠多支持臺中捷運的建設？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，藍線的部分目前正在細部計畫的過程當中，明年預算的部分，因為現在正在用地取得的部分，用地取得本來就是地方政府會多一些，所以它撥了八十幾億，中央目前是只有5億，但是未來整個中央跟地方分配的補助金額其實已經定下來了，所以這個沒有問題，到時候看工程走到什麼樣的進度，中央該補助的金額絕對會照當時我們大家討論好的那個金額下去補助，這個比例上都沒有問題。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。院長，我接下來要繼續就教臺中捷運的事情，也請部長繼續留著，因為跟捷運有關係。","剛剛彰化的黃委員也有質詢過相關的議題，就是捷運綠線延伸線的問題，我想這卡到所謂的的彰東都市計畫區。之前有提到彰東都市計畫區只要有審定，中捷綠線的綜合規劃就能夠報院做相關的審查。中捷綠線的部分往北是在我的選區大坑，往南就是部長以前的選區烏日到黃秀芳委員的選區彰化等等，這整條要做，一定會卡到彰東都市計畫，所以本席要問的是：有沒有解套的空間？有沒有機會以分段通車的方式來執行？因為北段這邊基本上沒有太大的問題，它就是很簡單的一個二點多公里的延伸線，南段因為涉及都市計畫的問題，彰東都市計畫就如同剛剛前面黃秀芳委員所說的，他從議員當到委員了，這件事情還沒有成案，同樣的問題，捷運綠線延伸從我當議員到我現在當委員了，也是一樣，看到那個建物的預留線留在那邊，但是一直沒有什麼新的進度。所以本席今天要問的是：捷運綠線延伸這件事情會因為彰東都市計畫而卡關嗎？還是有其他的方式可以讓它部分地分階段來通車？過去有沒有其他捷運可以這樣做？"],["陳部長世凱：跟委員報告，其實這個部分，因為我知道臺中市這一端，大家希望延伸北屯、大坑的這一條線速度可以快一些，但是因為往南、往彰化那邊還有都市計畫的問題，所以速度可能會緩一些、慢一些。目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中，其實我們可以協助地方政府，大家一起來討論一下，有沒有可能分段來研究？也就是大坑段這部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點，可不可以分段來處理？這個部分我們會來協助地方政府，大家一起來討論看看。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝行政院跟交通部的支持。這兩天大家也看到新聞了，捷運綠線上面有工作人員因為疑似過勞的問題在捷運往生了，也提到臺中捷運目前屬於虧損的狀態。我想捷運虧損，從以前的臺北捷運、以前的高雄捷運，大概都經歷過這段時間，為什麼？就是因為捷運只有一條的時候，它一定會虧損，因為沒有人流嘛！我們希望路網能夠形成。以明年來講，捷運藍線即將動工，臺中的捷運坦白講，全國第二大城，它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多，所以我想問一下行政院這邊，到底對於未來我們的捷運，包含橘線連結到中科、連結到臺中車站，還有捷運有一條紅線，是整個崇德路這一條，很重要的一個紅線，因為我知道紅線本來預計10年後才要開始評估，我們有爭取，我想交通部也支持、行政院也支持，希望讓捷運紅線能夠提早開始規劃。我想問一下，這兩個案子─橘線跟紅線有沒有機會加速趕快來執行？"],["陳部長世凱：跟委員報告，目前橘線我們正在可行性評估當中，這個部分就由市政府這邊，它速度加快，我們這邊也會來協助，這個沒有問題，我希望可行性研究的部分走快一點。另外一個部分，您所提到的紅線，也就是臺中的崇德一直到豐原的這一段。"],["黃委員健豪：對。"],["陳部長世凱：這一段確實現在的車流量非常地大，也因為您的爭取跟地方政府的爭取，我們目前針對可行性研究的部分，中央已經會儘量來提供協助跟補助。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝交通部，再次想感謝我們院長跟交通部。臺中的捷運真的非常重要，要不然第二大城一直沒有捷運，這其實是很荒謬的一件事情，所以要拜託中央全力的支持，尤其經費上面跟文書作業上、各種的審查作業，我們都希望能夠簡短一點，可不可以？院長，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們儘量，依照地方這麼強大的需求，中央在擬定計畫跟地方提出各種評估之後，能夠在施政上跟地方來配合，當然我們願意工程早日地進行跟完工，這個當然是我們的期待。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝院長，謝謝部長。接下來還是地方建設要跟院長反映一下，過去有會勘過，就是國立自然科學博物館的設備更新經費，我想科博館已經成立了快要40年了，比我年紀還大，我也在這邊當過志工，我想科博館是臺中很重要的一個場館，以全國來講也是很重要的場館。在統計上面來講，它是全國第二，到館人數第二名的博物館，但它的經費、它的設備，的確我講個比較可憐一點的事情，我高中的時候，16歲、17歲的時候去當它的志工，我跟院長報告，如果今天你來臺中科博館再參訪，我還可以幫你導覽，因為沒有什麼改變，內容基本上一樣，20年前的事情。更不用講從以前到現在，整個場館基本上沒有太大的更新，當然相關計畫─後續科博館應該也會報、教育部也會報，但是我要講的是，我們今年其實有去會勘，有幾個比較重點的部分，一個是有會議紀錄的，會議紀錄裡面提到，包含太空劇場，太空劇場這個東西在幾十年前科博館剛落成的時候，剛弄起來這個球形的所謂的劇場，那時候很先進，三十幾年前非常先進，那時候還沒有IMAX，那時候的科博館是非常先進的地方，但是如果現在再去同樣的太空劇場去看，它的影像就只有480p而已，我們現在都進到4K階段了，結果它的影像還是這樣子，沒有更新到。","所以我們去會勘的時候，當時會勘紀錄有講要視113年經費結餘情形，或最遲納入114年的預算來調配處理，所以相關預算整個看起來，太空劇場兩千多萬，那麼所謂污水管線，有的、沒有的更新起來，大概四、五千萬的經費，但是這對一年三兆的國家總預算來講，應該不是太龐大的經費，但是我翻遍了所有預算書，就是沒有看到這一條。甚至我們講科博館一年去看太空劇場的人數大概24萬、25萬人，平均票價一張100元，所以基本上你投資這個場館的費用兩千多萬，政府投資下去，很快就能夠從觀光客、從民眾、從各界來的遊覽人次裡面來把它回收。這對政府來講應該不是一個太龐大的經費，更何況這是有會議紀錄，也承諾要幫我們更新的，那為什麼在明年預算裡面沒有看到相關的進度？院長，怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：我也同意，我們包括自然科學在內，日新月益的進步，我們給國人或是給下一代年輕朋友，應該有一個符合現代臺灣在這個學科上面應該有的一個呈現，那或許是沒有提到地方上的需求，如果我們進一步地來請教委員或是地方政府或是其他的地方，如果在往後的年度可以把它納進去一個計畫的話，那我們應該可以審慎地來評估。"],["黃委員健豪：沒有啦！院長，你不能往後年度啦！這個是有會議紀錄的。我再跟你報告一下，這個是官方會議，不是我們服務處做的，我們服務處做得更細，但是官方提供的會議紀錄裡面已經提了，理論上今年113年度有結餘款就可以拿來用，或者是最遲114年要編進去，但是我就沒看到。所以我今天為什麼要提出來？就是希望院長知道這件事情、了解這件事情，這種官方文書紀錄是不能開玩笑的，不能說我承諾了，那最後沒有編進去，那這樣我們會勘跟會議紀錄不就沒有意義了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：看教育部有沒有什麼計畫。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，非常感謝委員關心科博館所有的這些工程，包括所有展示上的工程改善。確實我們在112年已經有先給科博館先期的一個規劃費，那當時有關污水納管的工程跟太空劇場的這些雷射投影機的計畫，確實當時也說今年我們在汛期過後，如果這個經費上能夠有剩餘的經費，我們會優先來支持。另外也跟委員報告，科博館目前它本身基金的賸餘也有一億三千多萬，所以當時我們也跟焦館長說，假設有急迫性，你就先在現有的基金裡面先處理。至於有關蓋新的一個大樓，總共要大概接近50億……"],["黃委員健豪：沒有，我今天沒有提新大樓、我今天沒有提新大樓，我今天就提純粹會議紀錄上的這兩筆而已。"],["鄭部長英耀：如果其他的這一個就……我跟委員報告，新建的大樓裡面將近要50億，我們已經先給規劃費了，在去年就先給規劃費，那今年考慮在汛期之後，有關污水跟太空劇場這個部分的改善，我們也同意在汛期的經費結餘，我們會優先來補助。那如果在時間上，焦館長他認為應該優先處理，我們也同意他在現有的基金裡面還有一億三千多萬，他可以優先來做處理。"],["黃委員健豪：我想這個不是單一館長或單一場館的問題，我今天會在這邊提，如果今天只是一個場館問題，我們就私下開協調會就好，今天特別提出來跟院長講，就是因為今天這個是官方的會議紀錄，有明確地講了要列入最遲114年教育部的預算裡面，結果卻沒有列入，我是說這樣的承諾、這樣子的會議紀錄不就等於無效了嗎？如果以後都這樣子做的話，立法委員跟行政部門之間要怎麼樣互信？要怎麼樣去溝通？要怎麼樣去協調？今天是白紙黑字寫的，不是空口說白話，講一講就沒事了，今天是有官方會議紀錄的東西。你剛剛提到的場館50億，那個東西我知道，所以我也沒有在這邊提，因為那是長期計畫，今天是簡短的、簡單的，國家預算三兆多裡面，這個攸關國家科學發展的一個場館，也就是兩千多萬，頂多4,000萬，在不同計畫裡面，今天一個設備兩千多萬拿不出來，而且這還是政府承諾要給的，為什麼會沒有呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，剛剛部長所說，自然科學博物館現在有一億多的賸餘款，館長他已經……部長有指示，如果有緊急需要，就這個部分來使用，我想不管是教育部或院裡面，我們都同意，也支持這樣的使用。"],["黃委員健豪：好，院長，謝謝。部長，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：接下來，我想下個月就是國慶日，提到國慶，我想最近大家……常常暑假期間很多委員都有訪美，我也跟院長還有大院來分享，我去訪美之後看到一個景象，就是他們真的家家戶戶，很多企業也好、民間也好，真的是四處都能輕易地見到美國的國旗，這個場景在臺灣相對來講會比較少見一點。為什麼我今天要特別提出來呢？我想因為最近第一個要國慶，第二個，我想兩岸關係也緊張。大家常常說，我們戰力要提升，心戰也很重要，心戰就包含民眾對國家的認同感，所以我們希望國旗除了在國慶日的時候能夠懸掛之外，當然相關的法令紀念日及節日實施辦法也要求，國家紀念日在中央機關、在機關裡面是要懸掛國旗的，但是並沒有鼓勵民間來懸掛國旗。所以我今天特別提出來，就是希望向院長提出建議，是不是能夠獎勵或補助民眾在特定的節日，像國旗日、國慶日等等的來購買，或者你就干脆送大家去掛國旗嘛！院長，你覺得有這個可能嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，雖然我認為國旗最重要是掛在心中，但是能掛在路面上，過幾天你就會看到整個凱道都會有很多的國旗，總統府也開始布置了。"],["黃委員健豪：這是政府機關的。"],["卓院長榮泰：每個人自己對愛國心的表達都會有不同的方式，我們都予以尊重，懸掛國旗當然也是一種，就像我們在奧運的時候，我們雖然看到的是我們的會旗，但唱起國旗歌，大家還是非常澎湃。像我也把國旗放在手表上，這個也是一種表示嘛！你也看得到。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝院長。因為我想這個還是要提一下，最近有個名詞叫「認知作戰」，認知作戰對內也很重要，就是讓民眾認知到我們是中華民國，我們對外要團結一致，所以這是平常就要建立起來的。這也是我在暑假期間訪美的時候特別看到的，他們國家……甚至跟他們的政治人物聊天，他們也講平常就要建立起這樣的文化，不要說只有比賽的時候，或是對外的時候才拿出來，平常大家多數的民眾就應該要有這樣的認知心態，當然這需要政府去幫忙、去從旁鼓勵，所以院長你覺得這件事情有沒有可行性？"],["卓院長榮泰：凡事有助於國人團結、以國家為最終目標的這種團結，任何表現的形式，我都認為是好的，不僅是尊重，如果大家有好的意見，我們都可以共同來討論，也支持。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝院長。接下來剩下沒有多少時間了，我延續上一次的質詢有提到所謂外籍勞工的問題，上次在7月9號的時候我跟院長總質詢也提到，下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題。院長也提到說，營造更好的帶小孩的環境，讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場，絕對對生育率會有所幫助。本國目前是有3名6歲以下兒童才能申請家庭幫傭，比較嚴，下半年要來檢討，而部長也提到下半年會一起來檢討。我想已經下半年了，即將到第四季不知道檢討的結果有沒有什麼進度？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長跟委員說明我們之間討論的過程跟現在的想法。"],["何部長佩珊：跟委員報告，院長一直非常關心，也一直指示我們要針對您的提議來研究。先跟您報告，我們初步先使用、先進行我們的多元陪伴服務方案的處理，現在我們已經進入正式把多元陪伴服務方案，就是所謂的鐘點移工，甚至已經把具體的時程都訂出來了，大概在今年11月底就可以提供服務了。我們是不是先就這個方案來先做一個試辦之後，我們會在下半年，看這個方案進行的情況如何。因為這個方案其實也有一點類似家庭幫傭這樣的功能，對於顧老跟顧小都可以cover，而且是沒有服務對象資格的設限的。所以是不是可以允許我們看這個試辦方案的成效如何，如果可以的話，也許我們逐步來推動委員所提的建議。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，謝謝。其實這個提出來最主要就是希望……因為現在少子化，今年是龍年，大家看到數據也很驚訝，過往龍年的生育率理論上會反彈一下下，然後再往下跌，但是今年完全沒有看到這個狀況。少子化是一個非常嚴肅的議題，少子化當然有很多原因，其中一個最重要的就是現代雙薪家庭的問題嘛！我今天之所以提出來外籍幫傭要放寬的原因就是，第一個，我國所謂的白領的外籍、高階白領階級，他們是可以直接看薪水來決定放寬他們去請所謂的外籍幫傭，但是本國籍的就像我提到的，你必須要有3個6歲以下的孩童，才能夠去請，我想這個對比落差非常大，正常現在多數的家庭誰家裡會有3個6歲以下的孩童，根本就不可能！那不可能的情況下，這個法規就形同具文嘛！我們當然希望能夠讓雙薪家庭，因為現在基本上都是雙薪家庭，除了上班之外，回來他能夠鬆開他的雙手，被這些鬆綁，他可以多陪他的小孩，甚至陪他上學等等的，所以我們希望這個部分能夠往這個方向去走，好不好？院長、部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，跟委員報告，在部長剛剛所說的多元陪伴服務式的開辦期間，我們也希望勞動部同時持續地進行整套政策的研擬及制定，我希望是同時並進的，不會因為這樣就停止我們對整套政策的想法。"],["黃委員健豪：好，院長，謝謝。","最後剩下1分鐘，我來跟大家討論一下我們社會住宅的問題。先看這個數字，5月31日的時候目標數還是12萬6,869，到8月31日，不知道為什麼，只剩下12萬1,938，有5,000戶不見了，當然細節我們沒辦法跟您討論，因為時間不夠，但是這個數字我想讓院長看到一下，就是為什麼我們社會住宅的這個數字反而降低了。","另外，我想今天稍早其他委員也有關心社宅政策，有提到所謂住宅基金的問題，當時候大家講社會住宅與租金補貼彼此之間不衝突，但是我們細究一下所謂住宅基金的數字，在明年度的預算裡面，社宅在住宅基金裡面只有38億7,000萬左右，大概40億，包租代管50億，租金補貼350億，換句話說，租房子這件事情（包租代管加租金補貼）就占了400億，那你社宅只花了38億，這個數字來講的話，其實對於整個百萬社宅計畫，你等於是拿租屋補貼的計畫來填充啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：再請部長跟委員會後說明，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第20號陳素月委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-1","speakers":["韓國瑜","張啓楷","陳培瑜","羅智強","林國成","陳瑩","洪孟楷","黃秀芳","謝龍介","李柏毅","賴士葆","許智傑","黃健豪","陳素月"],"page_start":233,"meetingDate":["2024-09-24"],"gazette_id":"1137501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137501_00003","1137501_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n行政院院長施政報告並備質詢─ 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 363.464, \"end\": 363.544, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 363.544, \"end\": 363.744, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 363.744, \"end\": 363.864, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 363.864, \"end\": 364.324, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 364.324, \"end\": 364.404, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 364.404, \"end\": 364.464, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 364.464, \"end\": 364.585, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 364.585, \"end\": 364.705, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 364.705, \"end\": 364.785, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 364.785, \"end\": 364.865, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 364.865, \"end\": 364.885, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 364.885, \"end\": 364.965, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 364.965, \"end\": 365.125, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 365.125, \"end\": 365.205, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 365.205, \"end\": 365.485, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 365.485, \"end\": 365.625, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 365.625, \"end\": 366.186, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 366.186, \"end\": 366.306, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 366.306, \"end\": 366.386, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 366.386, \"end\": 366.526, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 366.526, \"end\": 366.646, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 366.646, \"end\": 366.746, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 366.746, \"end\": 366.866, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 366.866, \"end\": 367.246, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 367.246, \"end\": 367.646, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 367.646, \"end\": 367.807, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 367.807, \"end\": 368.307, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 368.307, \"end\": 368.467, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 368.467, \"end\": 368.667, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 368.667, \"end\": 368.907, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 368.907, \"end\": 368.987, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 368.987, \"end\": 369.087, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 369.087, \"end\": 369.548, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 369.548, \"end\": 369.648, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 369.648, \"end\": 369.748, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 369.748, \"end\": 369.768, \"score\": 0.147}]}, {\"start\": 372.283, \"end\": 395.041, \"text\": \"這部份檢察官收到判決﹖會斟酌來做一個上訴不是 部長我請教一下專業問題如果今天一審有法官說認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了那二審三審的法官他即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性是不是也無解\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 372.283, \"end\": 372.383, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 372.383, \"end\": 373.524, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 373.524, \"end\": 373.664, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 373.664, \"end\": 373.804, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 373.804, \"end\": 373.944, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 373.944, \"end\": 374.065, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 374.065, \"end\": 375.786, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"﹖\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"斟\"}, {\"word\": \"酌\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 375.786, \"end\": 375.966, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 375.966, \"end\": 379.048, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 379.048, \"end\": 379.889, 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\"end\": 382.811, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 382.811, \"end\": 382.971, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 382.971, \"end\": 383.132, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 383.132, \"end\": 385.033, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 385.033, \"end\": 385.253, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 385.253, \"end\": 386.374, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 386.374, \"end\": 386.654, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 386.654, \"end\": 386.734, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 386.734, \"end\": 386.854, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 386.854, \"end\": 387.175, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 387.175, \"end\": 387.335, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 387.335, \"end\": 387.775, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 387.775, \"end\": 387.915, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 387.915, \"end\": 388.075, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 388.075, \"end\": 388.215, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 388.215, \"end\": 388.336, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 388.336, \"end\": 388.476, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 388.476, \"end\": 388.596, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 388.596, \"end\": 388.836, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 388.836, \"end\": 389.216, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 389.216, \"end\": 389.296, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 389.296, \"end\": 389.637, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 389.637, \"end\": 389.797, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 389.797, \"end\": 390.557, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"那\", 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\"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 393.239, \"end\": 393.339, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 393.339, \"end\": 393.439, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 393.439, \"end\": 393.58, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 393.58, \"end\": 393.66, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 393.66, \"end\": 393.86, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 393.86, \"end\": 394.56, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 394.56, \"end\": 394.64, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 394.64, \"end\": 394.7, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 394.7, \"end\": 394.781, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 394.781, \"end\": 394.881, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 394.881, \"end\": 395.021, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 395.021, \"end\": 395.041, \"score\": 0.006}]}, {\"start\": 396.579, \"end\": 412.174, \"text\": \"這個沒有這個問題啊這個一審的話如果說他應該判死刑沒有判死刑的話我想這個檢察官會請求上訴或被害人家屬會請求檢察官來做一個上訴我們會審酌那個檢察會審酌那個判決法官判決良形是否妥適\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 396.579, \"end\": 396.679, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 396.679, \"end\": 396.979, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 396.979, \"end\": 398.4, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 398.4, \"end\": 398.741, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 398.741, \"end\": 399.121, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 399.121, \"end\": 399.241, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 399.241, \"end\": 399.642, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 399.642, \"end\": 400.823, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 400.823, \"end\": 401.023, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 401.023, \"end\": 401.163, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 401.163, \"end\": 401.343, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 401.343, \"end\": 402.024, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 402.024, \"end\": 402.204, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 402.204, \"end\": 402.364, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 402.364, \"end\": 402.524, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 402.524, \"end\": 402.664, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 402.664, \"end\": 402.965, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 402.965, \"end\": 403.085, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 403.085, \"end\": 403.765, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 403.765, \"end\": 403.946, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 403.946, \"end\": 404.786, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 404.786, \"end\": 404.947, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 404.947, \"end\": 405.267, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 405.267, \"end\": 405.447, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 405.447, \"end\": 405.527, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 405.527, \"end\": 405.687, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 405.687, \"end\": 405.807, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 405.807, \"end\": 405.968, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 405.968, \"end\": 406.668, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 406.668, \"end\": 406.808, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 406.808, \"end\": 407.109, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 407.109, \"end\": 407.249, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 407.249, \"end\": 407.429, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 407.429, \"end\": 407.809, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 407.809, \"end\": 408.59, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"酌\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 408.59, \"end\": 409.351, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 409.351, \"end\": 410.051, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"酌\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 410.051, \"end\": 410.332, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 410.332, \"end\": 410.792, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 410.792, \"end\": 410.932, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 410.932, \"end\": 411.113, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 411.113, \"end\": 411.453, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"良\", \"start\": 411.453, \"end\": 411.653, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 411.653, \"end\": 411.853, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 411.853, \"end\": 411.993, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 411.993, \"end\": 412.154, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"妥\", \"start\": 412.154, \"end\": 412.174, \"score\": 0.018}, {\"word\": \"適\"}]}, {\"start\": 412.97, \"end\": 420.998, \"text\": \"所以你的立審一致決的這個部分是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都一致嗎?還是不是?三級三審繼續維持嗎?對啊,我就說要一致決\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 412.97, \"end\": 413.07, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 413.07, \"end\": 413.11, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 413.11, \"end\": 413.19, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 413.19, \"end\": 413.33, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 413.33, \"end\": 413.691, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 413.691, \"end\": 413.851, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 413.851, \"end\": 414.231, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 414.231, \"end\": 414.572, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 414.572, \"end\": 414.732, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 414.732, \"end\": 415.252, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 415.252, \"end\": 415.793, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 415.793, \"end\": 416.714, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 416.714, \"end\": 416.854, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 416.854, \"end\": 416.994, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 416.994, \"end\": 417.194, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 417.194, \"end\": 417.535, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 417.535, \"end\": 417.695, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 417.695, \"end\": 417.875, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 417.875, \"end\": 418.035, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 418.035, \"end\": 418.195, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 418.195, \"end\": 418.356, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 418.356, \"end\": 418.516, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 418.516, \"end\": 418.616, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 418.616, \"end\": 418.876, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 418.876, \"end\": 418.976, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 418.976, \"end\": 419.116, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 419.116, \"end\": 419.777, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 419.777, \"end\": 420.077, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 420.077, \"end\": 420.318, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"維\"}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 420.318, \"end\": 420.418, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 420.418, \"end\": 420.598, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 420.598, \"end\": 420.678, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 420.678, \"end\": 420.778, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 420.778, \"end\": 420.898, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 420.898, \"end\": 420.978, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 420.978, \"end\": 420.998, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"決\"}]}, {\"start\": 430.106, \"end\": 456.722, \"text\": \"所以如果在地方法院在第一審的時候他就已經判決說不任務就是他已經沒有死刑有法官決定他不該判處死刑那到了檢察官如果覺得因為過去是這樣嘛過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪行重大但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑所以上訴到這高院高院如果能夠判處他死刑那是不是就有這個死刑的問題那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 430.106, \"end\": 430.226, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 430.226, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 512.703, \"end\": 513.023, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"某\", \"start\": 513.023, \"end\": 513.363, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 513.363, \"end\": 513.484, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 513.484, \"end\": 513.864, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 513.864, \"end\": 513.884, \"score\": 0.408}]}, {\"start\": 514.963, \"end\": 535.874, \"text\": \"但是一審的時候還沒有被判處執行這件事情到底是有還是沒有他這樣有沒有能不能被執行事務上會有這種情形那個二審的話如果說認為一審的判決是並未妥適或違法的話二審可以改判二審可以改判嗎可以改判所以他的所謂的立審一次決就不存在了嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 514.963, \"end\": 515.043, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 515.043, \"end\": 515.123, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 515.123, \"end\": 515.343, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 515.343, \"end\": 515.543, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 562.021, \"text\": \"這個都要規定是要一字決才能判死刑啊但是如果說一字決他不判死刑的話我們還是可以上訴啊這個二審也是可以做一字決可以判死刑啊所以二審一字決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑跟一審無關不是因為不服一審的才有上訴到二審嘛二審審核如果一審的原來的判決是不非合法妥適\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 540.055, \"end\": 540.295, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 540.295, \"end\": 540.656, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 540.656, \"end\": 540.776, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 540.776, \"end\": 540.856, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 540.856, \"end\": 540.936, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 540.936, \"end\": 541.196, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 541.196, \"end\": 541.456, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 541.456, \"end\": 541.596, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 541.596, \"end\": 541.716, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 541.716, \"end\": 541.896, \"score\": 0.95}, 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{\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 817.544, \"end\": 817.644, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 817.644, \"end\": 817.844, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"慢\", \"start\": 817.844, \"end\": 818.024, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 818.024, \"end\": 818.164, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 818.164, \"end\": 818.184, \"score\": 0.985}]}, {\"start\": 818.824, \"end\": 836.609, \"text\": \"目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中其實我們可以協助地方政府大家一起來討論一下有沒有可能分段來研究分段來研究也就是說我們大坑段的部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點可不可以分段來處理這個部分我們會來協助地方政府大家一起來討論看看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 818.824, \"end\": 818.944, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 818.944, \"end\": 819.044, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 819.044, \"end\": 819.824, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 819.824, \"end\": 820.124, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"延\", 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\"起\", \"start\": 836.389, \"end\": 836.489, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 836.489, \"end\": 836.589, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 836.589, \"end\": 836.609, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 837.709, \"end\": 837.909, \"text\": \"臺中捷運目前虧損狀態\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 837.709, \"end\": 837.769, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"捷\", \"start\": 837.769, \"end\": 837.829, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 837.829, \"end\": 837.889, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 837.889, \"end\": 837.909, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"虧\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}]}, {\"start\": 854.339, \"end\": 882.584, \"text\": \"那我想捷運虧損從以前的臺北捷運以前的高雄捷運大家都經歷過這段時間為什麼就是因為捷運那時候就一挑的時候它一定會虧損因為沒有人流嘛那今天我們希望入網能夠形成那今天明年來講捷運藍線即將動工那台中的捷運坦白講全國第二大城它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多所以我想問一下我們這個行政院這邊到底對於未來我們捷運包含說局限連結到中科連結到台中車站\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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\"在上次7月9號的時候我們跟院長總質詢的時候也提到下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題那院長也提到說營造更好的帶小孩的環境讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場絕對是對生育率有所幫助那所以本國目前是這個三名60歲以下才能申請這個家庭幫傭比較嚴下半年要來檢討那這個部長也提到下半年要來檢討那我想已經下半年了已經即將第四季啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1550.472, \"end\": 1550.612, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1550.612, \"end\": 1550.852, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 1550.852, \"end\": 1551.132, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 1551.132, \"end\": 1551.253, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1551.253, \"end\": 1551.393, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 1551.393, \"end\": 1551.853, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1551.853, \"end\": 1552.113, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1552.113, \"end\": 1552.333, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1552.333, \"end\": 1552.814, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, 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--> 00:00:09,854\n主席麻煩再請卓院長備選\n\n2\n00:00:20,669 --> 00:00:42,458\n黃元豪院長好院長我想首先一開始也要跟大家關心上個禮拜我們想這個司法院判決出來說這個死刑存廢的問題當然這個司法院雖然說死刑核限但是呢他有要求說這個各省級合議庭法官的意見必須一致我想這是這樣在這個判決裡面講說法院組織法\n\n3\n00:00:46,927 --> 00:00:50,370\n依照憲法法庭的解釋出來的文字看出來他有這樣的\n\n4\n00:01:14,189 --> 00:01:14,989\n施政院院長黃健豪\n\n5\n00:01:40,979 --> 00:01:57,207\n相關機關兩年內要提出相關的修法我想民調上看得很清楚百分之84、85的民眾是反對廢除死刑的那今天如果相關機關要提出相關修法的話我想請問像行政院或法務部你們算不算相關機關\n\n6\n00:01:58,528 --> 00:02:22,174\n跟委員報告這個一致覺得這個是屬於平易的審判的一個事務這是規定在法院指示法所以相關機關應該有這個是屬於司法院主管的一個法規所以要有司法院來做一個主政所以到時候這所謂的修法版本不會有你們院版的版本會有行政院的版本他那個事完修法後會會選行政院\n\n7\n00:02:23,148 --> 00:02:24,109\n那你法務部的立場是什麼因為到時候一定會徵詢你們意見嗎因為我想這件事情提出來\n\n8\n00:02:48,241 --> 00:03:12,307\n雖然說這個死刑是合憲的但其實本質上他就是實質廢死那本席在這邊講這東西如果要送到立法院我要講一下你們是民選政府的官員我們是民意代表我們是投票投出來的這麼多民眾去反對這件事情我真的不知道到時候送進立法院裡面在委會審查也好在大院討論也好我們立法委員要怎麼去審這個法案\n\n9\n00:03:13,087 --> 00:03:26,582\n部長或院長你有什麼樣的想法可以教我們我不要怎麼樣去立這個法我不要怎麼樣把法律修到滿足大法官的這個判決才辦法做到這個判決等於零價立法院等於零價行政院的版本\n\n10\n00:03:28,437 --> 00:03:46,845\n報告委員我並不認為現在等於就是把它說成是實質廢死用四個字來形容它原則上它是有條件的核限我們在這個有條件核限的框架底下把一些程序讓它完備完備程序的目的在於不要造成冤枉的判決\n\n11\n00:03:47,705 --> 00:03:47,905\n李卓人議員\n\n12\n00:04:04,395 --> 00:04:25,379\n跟社會能夠非常的接受再來就是我們可以改變一下居禁的方式用終身居禁來取代無期徒刑那樣的這個方式這個是未來司法跟行政院當中乃至於跟立法院大院當中我們互相可以討論的很多的重點所以原則上我不認為這就是實質廢棄有條件我們能夠把條件當上更合理化我看這兩年\n\n13\n00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:49,970\n到底要怎麼樣溝通才能讓民眾接受這樣子要立審一字決的這個版本另外我要提醒一件事情如果立審一字決才能夠符合所謂的這個正當法律程序原則的話那是不是其他的行者其他的法律相關的法律不是只有死刑\n\n14\n00:04:50,796 --> 00:05:03,706\n那竊盜呢?強盜呢?這些東西是不是歷審都要一致他才符合正當法律程序原則?這個是屬於那個私體面的一個問題那個正當法律程序是要在刑訴訴訟法做一個規範所以\n\n15\n00:05:08,325 --> 00:05:37,809\n對於強盜或其他其他的刑事罪者是不是也都要立審都要一致他才能夠符合如果今天那個判處死刑罪那個最嚴重的那個罪行如果說法院要判處死刑的話那根據憲法法庭憲判第8號的一個規定一個判決的意旨這個是要一致決他這個是屬於從一審二審到最高法院的那個都要所有的法官何一庭的法官都要做一致決才能判處死刑\n\n16\n00:05:38,209 --> 00:05:43,059\n好部長那還有個意見嘛那其實過去我們都知道說法院的三級三審是\n\n17\n00:05:44,312 --> 00:06:09,768\n如果今天地方法院一審裡面光是一審裡面法官就覺得不需要的時候那他上訴到後面二審、三審之後那你等於剝奪了二審、三審的權利啦過去二審、三審可能跟一審有不一樣的結果那如果今天一審裡面就已經有說有法官不認為他被判處死刑是合理的如果有法官就覺得他不該被判處死刑那所以後面的二審、三審等於也被限制的相關權利了嘛\n\n18\n00:06:12,283 --> 00:06:35,041\n這部份檢察官收到判決﹖會斟酌來做一個上訴不是部長我請教一下專業問題如果今天一審有法官說認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了那二審三審的法官他即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性是不是也無解\n\n19\n00:06:36,579 --> 00:06:52,174\n這個沒有這個問題啊這個一審的話如果說他應該判死刑沒有判死刑的話我想這個檢察官會請求上訴或被害人家屬會請求檢察官來做一個上訴我們會審酌那個檢察會審酌那個判決法官判決良形是否妥適\n\n20\n00:06:52,970 --> 00:07:00,998\n所以你的立審一致決的這個部分是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都一致嗎?還是不是?三級三審繼續維持嗎?對啊,我就說要一致決\n\n21\n00:07:10,106 --> 00:07:36,722\n所以如果在地方法院在第一審的時候他就已經判決說不任務就是他已經沒有死刑有法官決定他不該判處死刑那到了檢察官如果覺得因為過去是這樣嘛過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪行重大但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑所以上訴到這高院高院如果能夠判處他死刑那是不是就有這個死刑的問題那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑了\n\n22\n00:07:37,890 --> 00:08:03,586\n檢察官即便上訴了到二審之後二審的法官也不能推翻一審這件事情吧這個不一定要看個案他如果一審的話應該一致決是要判死刑才有一致決的一個問題如果不是判死刑就沒有一致決的一個問題就譬如說一個最終的一個犯刑如果說一審的法院是判無期徒刑如果說檢察不服或被害人的家屬或被家屬會請求檢案來上訴那個上訴到二審\n\n23\n00:08:04,406 --> 00:08:33,884\n那當然以憲判第80號的一個判決的意思那二審的話要判死還要一致決所以何立廷的三個法官都要都要都要認為就是要判死來副長這個當然我這個也確認這個東西我想民眾都非常關心啊對才利用這麼多時間來跟你們就教我想這個我們大家都很關心那個法務部也是非常關心這件事情二審如果說要三個二審的何立廷法官如果都決定要判處死刑如果啦假設某個個案是這樣子\n\n24\n00:08:34,963 --> 00:08:55,874\n但是一審的時候還沒有被判處執行這件事情到底是有還是沒有他這樣有沒有能不能被執行事務上會有這種情形那個二審的話如果說認為一審的判決是並未妥適或違法的話二審可以改判二審可以改判嗎可以改判所以他的所謂的立審一次決就不存在了嗎\n\n25\n00:09:00,055 --> 00:09:22,021\n這個都要規定是要一字決才能判死刑啊但是如果說一字決他不判死刑的話我們還是可以上訴啊這個二審也是可以做一字決可以判死刑啊所以二審一字決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑跟一審無關不是因為不服一審的才有上訴到二審嘛二審審核如果一審的原來的判決是不非合法妥適\n\n26\n00:09:23,137 --> 00:09:48,719\n他這樣的話可以改判為實行只要一致決議可以改判為實行好部長謝謝那我們後面繼續來討論這個問題謝謝部長委員的意思是說一二三審都要一致決對啊判時都要一致決那這個說法是不是在判事第8號這個解釋文上面引申為這樣的說法我認為一定會引起很多的討論的那我們再看看很多的法律專家所以這個說法並不一定是正確並不一定是照他自認這樣的說法一定會引起討論的修法還會再修吧好謝謝\n\n27\n00:09:52,503 --> 00:09:53,726\n那接下來談論一下地方建設部長謝謝\n\n28\n00:09:56,192 --> 00:10:22,400\n我想我們也有關注我們行政院這個新任部長陳志凱部長的臉書我看到他前兩天發了一個這個reel講到說這個響應世界無車日呼籲民眾我剛剛有個截圖我有截到呼籲民眾來乘坐公共運輸那剛好他所在的位置在台北捷運的藍線那剛好我想明年的預算裡面也編列了台中捷運的藍線我想部長也出生在台中也很清楚知道\n\n29\n00:10:23,300 --> 00:10:51,401\n今天如果身為一個臺中市民他想要響應這個部長的呼籲響應我們院長的呼籲來響應這個世界無車日但卻只有一條捷運可以搭乘的話我想這個就很難去達到這個目標所以今天提到說我想翻到下一頁臺中市的整體捷運路網裡面先講這個捷運藍線當然預計明年要來動工但是我看目前送進來的這個院板的預算那當然現在程序委員會被退回但是目前的版本\n\n30\n00:10:52,709 --> 00:10:52,849\n報告委員\n\n31\n00:11:17,469 --> 00:11:33,203\n報告委員藍線的部分目前正在細部計畫的過程當中明年的預算的部分因為現在正在用地取得的部分用地取得本來就是地方政府會多一些所以它撥了八十幾億中央目前是只有五億\n\n32\n00:11:33,843 --> 00:11:37,868\n中央該補助的金額絕對會照當時我們大家討論好的那個金額下去補助這個比例上都沒有問題\n\n33\n00:11:49,480 --> 00:12:12,415\n好謝謝再來院長我要就叫一樣臺中捷運我想部長繼續留著跟這個捷運有關係剛剛上面這個張化的黃議員也有質詢過相關的議題就捷運綠線延伸線的問題我想這卡到所謂的張東都市計劃區那我想這個之前有提到說張東都市計劃區只要有審定那中期的綠線的綜合規劃就能夠抱怨來做相關的審查\n\n34\n00:12:13,422 --> 00:12:13,482\n黃健豪議員\n\n35\n00:12:34,196 --> 00:12:55,775\n是分段通車的方式來執行因為我想北段這邊基本上沒有太大問題他就是很簡單的一個2點多公里的延伸線南段因為涉及到所謂都市計劃的問題那如果都市計劃因為江東都市計劃就如同剛剛前面黃秀芳委員所說的他從議員當到委員了這次自己還沒有成案\n\n36\n00:12:56,375 --> 00:13:17,356\n同樣問題捷運綠線延伸從我當議員到我現在當委員也是一樣看到那個建物的預留線留在那邊但是一直沒有什麼新的進度所以本席今天要問的是說捷運綠線延伸這件事情會因為張東都是計畫而卡關嗎還是有其他的方式可以讓他部分的分階段來通車過去有沒有其他的捷運可以這樣做\n\n37\n00:13:20,959 --> 00:13:38,184\n跟委員報告其實這個部分因為我知道台中市這邊這一端大家希望說這個延伸北屯大坑的這一條線速度可以快一些但是因為往南往彰化那邊還有都市計畫的問題所以速度可能會緩一些慢一些\n\n38\n00:13:38,824 --> 00:13:56,609\n目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中其實我們可以協助地方政府大家一起來討論一下有沒有可能分段來研究分段來研究也就是說我們大坑段的部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點可不可以分段來處理這個部分我們會來協助地方政府大家一起來討論看看\n\n39\n00:13:57,709 --> 00:13:57,909\n臺中捷運目前虧損狀態\n\n40\n00:14:14,339 --> 00:14:42,584\n那我想捷運虧損從以前的臺北捷運以前的高雄捷運大家都經歷過這段時間為什麼就是因為捷運那時候就一挑的時候它一定會虧損因為沒有人流嘛那今天我們希望入網能夠形成那今天明年來講捷運藍線即將動工那台中的捷運坦白講全國第二大城它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多所以我想問一下我們這個行政院這邊到底對於未來我們捷運包含說局限連結到中科連結到台中車站\n\n41\n00:14:43,604 --> 00:15:03,435\n還有捷運有條紅線整個崇德路這一條很重要的一個紅線因為我知道紅線目前本來預計10年後才會開始評估那我們也有爭取我想交通部也支持行政院也支持希望讓這個捷運紅線能夠提早開始規劃我想問一下這兩個案子橘線跟紅線有沒有機會加速的來趕快來執行\n\n42\n00:15:06,432 --> 00:15:34,233\n跟委員報告目前局限我們正在可行性評估當中那這個部分就由市政府這邊他速度加快我們這邊也會來協助這個沒有問題我希望可行性研究的部分走快一點那另外一個部分您所提到的紅線也就是臺中的崇德一直到豐原的這一段那這一段確實現在的車流量非常的大那也因為您的爭取跟地方政府的爭取我們目前針對可行性研究的部分中央已經會盡量來提供協助跟補助\n\n43\n00:15:35,114 --> 00:15:54,373\n好謝謝謝謝我們交通部的再次想感謝我們院長跟交通部這個臺中捷運真的非常重要要不然其實第二大城一直沒有捷運這件事情其實是很荒謬的事情所以要拜託這個中央權力的支持因為經費上面跟文書作業上各種的審查作業我們都希望能夠減短一點可以不可以\n\n44\n00:15:56,494 --> 00:16:17,888\n院長我們盡量依照地方這麼強大的需求那中央在離定計畫跟地方提出各種評估之後能夠在施政上跟地方來配合當然我們願意工程早日的進行跟完工這個當然是我們的期待好院長謝謝那接下來還是地方建設要跟院長反映一下這過去有會刊這個部長謝謝\n\n45\n00:16:20,823 --> 00:16:44,391\n這過去有會勘過啦就是我們國立自然科學博物館的設備的更新經費我講科博館這個已經成立了快要40年了比我年紀還大我也在這邊當過志工啊我講科博館是臺中的很重要的一個場館也是全國來講很重要場館在統計上面來講他是全國第2觀光人數道館人數第2名的這個博物館但他的經費他的這個設備的確我講了這個比較可憐一點的事情\n\n46\n00:16:49,178 --> 00:17:03,485\n我高中的時候16歲17歲的時候去當他的志工我跟院長報告如果今天你來台中科普館再參訪我還可以辦導覽因為沒有什麼改變啊那種基本上一樣20年前的事情\n\n47\n00:17:04,475 --> 00:17:33,470\n那更不用講從以前到現在這個場館基本上沒有太大的更新所以這個當然相關計畫後續科目館他們應該也會報教育部也會報但是我要講的是我們今年其實有去會館有幾個比較重點的部分因為是有會議紀錄的會議紀錄沒有提到說包含說這個太空劇場太空劇場這個東西在幾十年前科目館剛落成的時候剛弄起來這個球型的所謂的這個劇場哇那時候很先進啊\n\n48\n00:17:34,318 --> 00:17:45,278\n三十幾年前非常先進那時候還沒有IMAX那時候的科普館是非常先進的地方但是如果現在再去同樣的這個所謂太空劇場去看他的這個影像\n\n49\n00:17:46,306 --> 00:17:56,155\n這就有480P而已啊但我們現在進入4K階段了結果他的影像還是這樣子沒有更新到所以那時候我們去會刊的時候當時這個會刊記錄有講說要試113年經費結餘情形或最遲納入114年的預算來調配處理\n\n50\n00:18:04,562 --> 00:18:04,762\n黃健豪議員\n\n51\n00:18:20,678 --> 00:18:20,818\n黃健豪議員\n\n52\n00:18:50,898 --> 00:19:17,966\n怎麼辦我也同意我們包括自然科學在內日新月異的進步我們給國人或是給下一代年輕朋友應該有一個符合現代臺灣在這個學科上面應該有的一個呈現那或許是沒有提到地方基礎上的需求那如果我們進一步的來請教委員或是地方政府或是其他的地方如果在往後的年度可以把它納進去一個計畫的話那我們應該可以審慎的來評估\n\n53\n00:19:20,475 --> 00:19:35,806\n沒有啦院長你不能往後年度啦這個是會議紀錄我再給你報告一下這個是官方會議回來不是我們服務處做的喔我們服務處做得更細但是官方提供的會議紀錄裡面已經提了理論上今年113年度有結預款就可以拿來用或是最遲\n\n54\n00:19:36,667 --> 00:19:37,368\n教育部有沒有什麼計畫?\n\n55\n00:19:52,350 --> 00:20:11,922\n跟委員報告,非常感謝委員關心科博館的所有工程,包括展示上的工程改善。確實我們在112年已經有先給科博館有一個先期的規劃會,\n\n56\n00:20:14,023 --> 00:20:25,687\n當時也有關這個污水納管的工程跟太空劇場的這些雷射投影機的一個計畫確實當時也說在今年我們在汛期過後如果這個經費上能夠有剩餘的經費我們會優先來支持\n\n57\n00:20:33,170 --> 00:20:55,144\n另外也跟委員報告科博館目前它本身這個基金的一個剩餘也有1億3000多萬所以當時我們也跟交館長說假設有急迫性你就先在現有的基金裡面先處理至於這個有關蓋新的一個大樓總共要大概我今天沒有人提蓋新大樓\n\n58\n00:20:56,244 --> 00:20:59,345\n新建大樓將近要50億我們已經先給規劃會了在去年就先給規劃會那今年在考慮在迅期之後我們也會\n\n59\n00:21:15,011 --> 00:21:37,169\n這一個有關污水跟太空機場的這一個部分的一個改善我們也同意在信息的經費節餘我們會優先來補助那如果在時間上交館長他認為應該優先處理我們也同意他這一個在現有的一個基金裡邊有還有一億三千多萬他可以優先來做處理\n\n60\n00:21:37,529 --> 00:21:59,842\n我想這個不是單一館長或單一場館的問題啦我今天會在這邊提如果今天只是一個場館問題我們就私下寫一條會就好今天特別提出來跟院長講就是因為今天這個是官方的會議紀錄有講了明確的講了要列入最遲114年教育部的預算裡面\n\n61\n00:22:01,151 --> 00:22:13,080\n結果卻沒有列入那我是說這樣的承諾這樣子會議記錄不就等於無效了嗎那如果以後都這樣子做的話那立法委員跟行政部門之間要怎麼樣互信要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去協調\n\n62\n00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:41,208\n今天是白紙黑字寫的不是空口說白話大家好好好基本上講一講就沒事了今天是有官方會議紀錄的東西那如果今天剛剛你提到的這個什麼場館50億那個東西我知道所以我也沒在這邊提因為那是長期計畫今天是簡短的簡單的國家預算三兆多裡面這個攸關國家科學發展一個場館也就是兩千多萬頂多四千萬不同計畫裡面今天一個設備兩千多萬拿不出來\n\n63\n00:23:07,273 --> 00:23:32,213\n接下來我想下個月是國慶日我想提到國慶我想最近大家常常暑假期間很多委員都訪美我也跟院長和大院來分享在訪美之後看到一個景象就是他們真的家家戶戶很多企業也好民間也好真的四處都會輕易的見到他們美國的國旗這個場景在台灣相對來講會比較少見一點\n\n64\n00:23:33,914 --> 00:23:54,402\n好那為什麼今天特別提出來呢我想因為最近一個要國慶第二個我想兩岸關係也緊張大家常常說我們這個戰力要提升新戰也很重要新戰就包含說民眾對國家的認同感所以我們希望國企除了在國慶日的時候能夠懸掛之外\n\n65\n00:23:55,502 --> 00:24:19,796\n當然相關的這個法令有要求啦這個紀念日節日實施辦法國家紀念日是要來在中央機關在機關裡面來懸掛國旗但是並沒有去鼓勵民間來懸掛國旗所以我今天特別提出來是希望說向院長提出建議是不是能夠獎勵或補助民眾在特定的節日或是什麼國旗日或國慶日等等的來購買或者你就乾脆送大家去掛國旗嘛\n\n66\n00:24:20,643 --> 00:24:50,110\n院長你覺得這有可能嗎謝謝委員雖然我認為國旗重要是掛在心中但是能夠掛在路面上過幾天你就會看到整個凱道都會有很多的國旗總統府也開始布置了每個人讓自己對愛國心的表達會有不同的方式我們都予以尊重那懸掛國旗當然也是一種就像我們在奧運的時候我們雖然看到的是我們的會旗但是唱起國旗歌大家還是非常澎湃像我也把國旗放在手錶上這個也是一種表示你也看到\n\n67\n00:24:50,990 --> 00:25:16,083\n謝謝謝謝院長因為我想這個還是要提一下這個最近用者的名字叫做認知作戰啊認知作戰對內也很重要啊就讓民眾認知到我們是這個中華民國我們對外團結一致所以這個平常就要建立起來這也是我去這個暑假期間訪美的時候我特別看到他們國家甚至跟他們政治部聊天他們也講平常就要建立起這樣的文化\n\n68\n00:25:17,165 --> 00:25:18,886\n凡事有助於國人團結以國家為最終目標的這種團結任何的表現的形式我都認為是好的\n\n69\n00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:48,706\n不僅是尊重如果大家有好的意見我們都可以共同來討論也支持好院長謝謝那接下來現在沒有多少時間了我延續上一次的這個質詢有提到所謂外籍勞工的問題\n\n70\n00:25:50,472 --> 00:26:20,212\n在上次7月9號的時候我們跟院長總質詢的時候也提到下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題那院長也提到說營造更好的帶小孩的環境讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場絕對是對生育率有所幫助那所以本國目前是這個三名60歲以下才能申請這個家庭幫傭比較嚴下半年要來檢討那這個部長也提到下半年要來檢討那我想已經下半年了已經即將第四季啦\n\n71\n00:26:25,536 --> 00:26:47,294\n請部長跟委員說明我們之間討論的過程跟現在的想法跟委員報告院長一直非常關心然後也一直指示我們要針對您的這個提議要來研究那麼先跟您報告我們初步先使用我們先進行我們的多元陪伴服務方案的處理現在我們已經\n\n72\n00:26:48,355 --> 00:27:14,265\n進入這個正式的把多元陪伴服務方案就是所謂的終點移工我們甚至已經把這個具體的那個時程都訂出來了大概在今年11月底我們就可以提供服務了那我們是不是先就這個方案來先做一個試辦之後呢我們會在下半年我們看這個方案進行的情況如何因為其實這個方案其實也有點類似\n\n73\n00:27:15,686 --> 00:27:42,014\n可以類似就是像家庭幫傭這樣的功能對於顧老跟顧小都可以cover而且是沒有這個服務對象的這個資格的設限的沒有很所以是不是可以允許我們把這個事辦方案我們看成效如何如果可以的話也許我們逐步來推動委員所提的建議這樣子部長謝謝因為其實這個提出來最主要就是希望\n\n74\n00:27:42,914 --> 00:27:43,074\n黃健豪議員\n\n75\n00:27:58,425 --> 00:28:16,888\n少子化是一個非常嚴肅的議題那少子化當然很多原因那其中一個最重要的就是現代的雙薪家庭的問題嘛我今天之所以提出來這個外籍幫優放寬的原因就第一個我國的這個所謂的白領的外籍這個這些這個高階白領階級他們是可以直接看薪水來決定\n\n76\n00:28:17,449 --> 00:28:18,390\n發言委員：黃健豪發言委員：黃健豪\n\n77\n00:28:43,723 --> 00:28:56,803\n他除了上班之外回來他能夠鬆開他的雙手他可以不用去背這些書榜他可以多背他的小孩甚至陪他上學等等的所以我們才希望說這個方向能夠往這方去走好不好院長跟部長\n\n78\n00:28:58,251 --> 00:29:00,292\n最後剩下一分鐘我來跟大家討論一下我們社會主宰的問題\n\n79\n00:29:21,277 --> 00:29:47,708\n先看這個數字啊5月31號的時候目標還是12萬6869到8月31不知道為什麼只剩下12萬1938有五千會不見當然細節我們沒辦法跟討論了因為時間不夠但是這個數字我想讓院長看到一下就為什麼我們的社會住宅的這個數字降低反而降低了那另外我想今天稍早其他委員有關心社宅政策有提到所謂住宅基金的問題那當時候大家講說這個\n\n80\n00:29:51,145 --> 00:30:16,899\n社會住宅跟租金補貼彼此之間不衝突但是我們細究一下所謂住宅基金的數字在明年度的預算裡面社宅在住宅基金裡面只有38億7千萬左右大概40億到包租代管50億租金補貼350億換句話說租房這件事情包租代管加租金補貼就佔了400億那你社宅只花了38億\n\n81\n00:30:18,496 --> 00:30:18,956\n謝謝黃健豪委員的質詢謝謝卓院長的備詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8290\t9854\t主席 麻煩再請卓院長備選\n20669\t42458\t黃元豪院長好 院長我想首先一開始也要跟大家關心上個禮拜我們想這個司法院判決出來說這個死刑存廢的問題當然這個司法院雖然說死刑核限但是呢他有要求說這個各省級合議庭法官的意見必須一致我想這是這樣在這個判決裡面講說法院組織法\n46927\t50370\t依照憲法法庭的解釋出來的文字看出來他有這樣的\n74189\t74989\t施政院院長黃健豪\n100979\t117207\t相關機關兩年內要提出相關的修法我想民調上看得很清楚百分之84、85的民眾是反對廢除死刑的那今天如果相關機關要提出相關修法的話我想請問像行政院或法務部你們算不算相關機關\n118528\t142174\t跟委員報告 這個一致覺得這個是屬於平易的審判的一個事務這是規定在法院指示法所以相關機關應該有這個是屬於司法院主管的一個法規所以要有司法院來做一個主政所以到時候這所謂的修法版本不會有你們院版的版本會有行政院的版本他那個事完修法後會會選行政院\n143148\t144109\t那你法務部的立場是什麼因為到時候一定會徵詢你們意見嗎因為我想這件事情提出來\n168241\t192307\t雖然說這個死刑是合憲的但其實本質上他就是實質廢死那本席在這邊講這東西如果要送到立法院我要講一下你們是民選政府的官員我們是民意代表我們是投票投出來的這麼多民眾去反對這件事情我真的不知道到時候送進立法院裡面在委會審查也好在大院討論也好我們立法委員要怎麼去審這個法案\n193087\t206582\t部長或院長你有什麼樣的想法可以教我們我不要怎麼樣去立這個法我不要怎麼樣把法律修到滿足大法官的這個判決才辦法做到這個判決等於零價立法院等於零價行政院的版本\n208437\t226845\t報告委員我並不認為現在等於就是把它說成是實質廢死用四個字來形容它原則上它是有條件的核限我們在這個有條件核限的框架底下把一些程序讓它完備完備程序的目的在於不要造成冤枉的判決\n227705\t227905\t李卓人議員\n244395\t265379\t跟社會能夠非常的接受再來就是我們可以改變一下居禁的方式用終身居禁來取代無期徒刑那樣的這個方式這個是未來司法跟行政院當中乃至於跟立法院大院當中我們互相可以討論的很多的重點所以原則上我不認為這就是實質廢棄有條件我們能夠把條件當上更合理化我看這兩年\n271480\t289970\t到底要怎麼樣溝通才能讓民眾接受這樣子要立審一字決的這個版本另外我要提醒一件事情如果立審一字決才能夠符合所謂的這個正當法律程序原則的話那是不是其他的行者其他的法律相關的法律不是只有死刑\n290796\t303706\t那竊盜呢?強盜呢?這些東西是不是歷審都要一致他才符合正當法律程序原則?這個是屬於那個私體面的一個問題那個正當法律程序是要在刑訴訴訟法做一個規範所以\n308325\t337809\t對於強盜或其他其他的刑事罪者是不是也都要立審都要一致他才能夠符合如果今天那個判處死刑罪那個最嚴重的那個罪行如果說法院要判處死刑的話那根據憲法法庭憲判第8號的一個規定一個判決的意旨這個是要一致決他這個是屬於從一審二審到最高法院的那個都要所有的法官何一庭的法官都要做一致決才能判處死刑\n338209\t343059\t好 部長那還有個意見嘛那其實過去我們都知道說法院的三級三審是\n344312\t369768\t如果今天地方法院一審裡面光是一審裡面法官就覺得不需要的時候那他上訴到後面二審、三審之後那你等於剝奪了二審、三審的權利啦過去二審、三審可能跟一審有不一樣的結果那如果今天一審裡面就已經有說有法官不認為他被判處死刑是合理的如果有法官就覺得他不該被判處死刑那所以後面的二審、三審等於也被限制的相關權利了嘛\n372283\t395041\t這部份檢察官收到判決﹖會斟酌來做一個上訴不是 部長我請教一下專業問題如果今天一審有法官說認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了那二審三審的法官他即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性是不是也無解\n396579\t412174\t這個沒有這個問題啊這個一審的話如果說他應該判死刑沒有判死刑的話我想這個檢察官會請求上訴或被害人家屬會請求檢察官來做一個上訴我們會審酌那個檢察會審酌那個判決法官判決良形是否妥適\n412970\t420998\t所以你的立審一致決的這個部分是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都一致嗎?還是不是?三級三審繼續維持嗎?對啊,我就說要一致決\n430106\t456722\t所以如果在地方法院在第一審的時候他就已經判決說不任務就是他已經沒有死刑有法官決定他不該判處死刑那到了檢察官如果覺得因為過去是這樣嘛過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪行重大但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑所以上訴到這高院高院如果能夠判處他死刑那是不是就有這個死刑的問題那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑了\n457890\t483586\t檢察官即便上訴了到二審之後二審的法官也不能推翻一審這件事情吧這個不一定要看個案他如果一審的話應該一致決是要判死刑才有一致決的一個問題如果不是判死刑就沒有一致決的一個問題就譬如說一個最終的一個犯刑如果說一審的法院是判無期徒刑如果說檢察不服或被害人的家屬或被家屬會請求檢案來上訴那個上訴到二審\n484406\t513884\t那當然以憲判第80號的一個判決的意思那二審的話要判死還要一致決所以何立廷的三個法官都要都要都要認為就是要判死來 副長這個當然我這個也確認這個東西我想民眾都非常關心啊對才利用這麼多時間來跟你們就教我想這個我們大家都很關心那個法務部也是非常關心這件事情二審如果說要三個二審的何立廷法官如果都決定要判處死刑如果啦假設某個個案是這樣子\n514963\t535874\t但是一審的時候還沒有被判處執行這件事情到底是有還是沒有他這樣有沒有能不能被執行事務上會有這種情形那個二審的話如果說認為一審的判決是並未妥適或違法的話二審可以改判二審可以改判嗎可以改判所以他的所謂的立審一次決就不存在了嗎\n540055\t562021\t這個都要規定是要一字決才能判死刑啊但是如果說一字決他不判死刑的話我們還是可以上訴啊這個二審也是可以做一字決可以判死刑啊所以二審一字決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑跟一審無關不是因為不服一審的才有上訴到二審嘛二審審核如果一審的原來的判決是不非合法妥適\n563137\t588719\t他這樣的話可以改判為實行只要一致決議可以改判為實行好 部長謝謝那我們後面繼續來討論這個問題謝謝部長委員的意思是說一二三審都要一致決對啊判時都要一致決那這個說法是不是在判事第8號這個解釋文上面引申為這樣的說法我認為一定會引起很多的討論的那我們再看看很多的法律專家所以這個說法並不一定是正確並不一定是照他自認這樣的說法一定會引起討論的修法還會再修吧好 謝謝\n592503\t593726\t那接下來談論一下地方建設部長謝謝\n596192\t622400\t我想我們也有關注我們行政院這個新任部長陳志凱部長的臉書我看到他前兩天發了一個這個reel講到說這個響應世界無車日呼籲民眾我剛剛有個截圖我有截到呼籲民眾來乘坐公共運輸那剛好他所在的位置在台北捷運的藍線那剛好我想明年的預算裡面也編列了台中捷運的藍線我想部長也出生在台中也很清楚知道\n623300\t651401\t今天如果身為一個臺中市民他想要響應這個部長的呼籲響應我們院長的呼籲來響應這個世界無車日但卻只有一條捷運可以搭乘的話我想這個就很難去達到這個目標所以今天提到說我想翻到下一頁臺中市的整體捷運路網裡面先講這個捷運藍線當然預計明年要來動工但是我看目前送進來的這個院板的預算那當然現在程序委員會被退回但是目前的版本\n652709\t652849\t報告委員\n677469\t693203\t報告委員藍線的部分目前正在細部計畫的過程當中明年的預算的部分因為現在正在用地取得的部分用地取得本來就是地方政府會多一些所以它撥了八十幾億中央目前是只有五億\n693843\t697868\t中央該補助的金額絕對會照當時我們大家討論好的那個金額下去補助 這個比例上都沒有問題\n709480\t732415\t好 謝謝再來院長我要就叫一樣臺中捷運我想部長繼續留著跟這個捷運有關係剛剛上面這個張化的黃議員也有質詢過相關的議題就捷運綠線延伸線的問題我想這卡到所謂的張東都市計劃區那我想這個之前有提到說張東都市計劃區只要有審定那中期的綠線的綜合規劃就能夠抱怨來做相關的審查\n733422\t733482\t黃健豪議員\n754196\t775775\t是分段通車的方式來執行因為我想北段這邊基本上沒有太大問題他就是很簡單的一個2點多公里的延伸線南段因為涉及到所謂都市計劃的問題那如果都市計劃因為江東都市計劃就如同剛剛前面黃秀芳委員所說的他從議員當到委員了這次自己還沒有成案\n776375\t797356\t同樣問題捷運綠線延伸從我當議員到我現在當委員也是一樣看到那個建物的預留線留在那邊但是一直沒有什麼新的進度所以本席今天要問的是說捷運綠線延伸這件事情會因為張東都是計畫而卡關嗎還是有其他的方式可以讓他部分的分階段來通車過去有沒有其他的捷運可以這樣做\n800959\t818184\t跟委員報告其實這個部分因為我知道台中市這邊這一端大家希望說這個延伸北屯大坑的這一條線速度可以快一些但是因為往南往彰化那邊還有都市計畫的問題所以速度可能會緩一些慢一些\n818824\t836609\t目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中其實我們可以協助地方政府大家一起來討論一下有沒有可能分段來研究分段來研究也就是說我們大坑段的部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點可不可以分段來處理這個部分我們會來協助地方政府大家一起來討論看看\n837709\t837909\t臺中捷運目前虧損狀態\n854339\t882584\t那我想捷運虧損從以前的臺北捷運以前的高雄捷運大家都經歷過這段時間為什麼就是因為捷運那時候就一挑的時候它一定會虧損因為沒有人流嘛那今天我們希望入網能夠形成那今天明年來講捷運藍線即將動工那台中的捷運坦白講全國第二大城它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多所以我想問一下我們這個行政院這邊到底對於未來我們捷運包含說局限連結到中科連結到台中車站\n883604\t903435\t還有捷運有條紅線整個崇德路這一條很重要的一個紅線因為我知道紅線目前本來預計10年後才會開始評估那我們也有爭取我想交通部也支持 行政院也支持希望讓這個捷運紅線能夠提早開始規劃我想問一下這兩個案子橘線跟紅線有沒有機會加速的來趕快來執行\n906432\t934233\t跟委員報告目前局限我們正在可行性評估當中那這個部分就由市政府這邊他速度加快我們這邊也會來協助這個沒有問題我希望可行性研究的部分走快一點那另外一個部分您所提到的紅線也就是臺中的崇德一直到豐原的這一段那這一段確實現在的車流量非常的大那也因為您的爭取跟地方政府的爭取我們目前針對可行性研究的部分中央已經會盡量來提供協助跟補助\n935114\t954373\t好 謝謝謝謝我們交通部的再次想感謝我們院長跟交通部這個臺中捷運真的非常重要要不然其實第二大城一直沒有捷運這件事情其實是很荒謬的事情所以要拜託這個中央權力的支持因為經費上面跟文書作業上各種的審查作業我們都希望能夠減短一點可以不可以\n956494\t977888\t院長我們盡量依照地方這麼強大的需求那中央在離定計畫跟地方提出各種評估之後能夠在施政上跟地方來配合當然我們願意工程早日的進行跟完工這個當然是我們的期待好 院長謝謝那接下來還是地方建設要跟院長反映一下這過去有會刊 這個部長謝謝\n980823\t1004391\t這過去有會勘過啦就是我們國立自然科學博物館的設備的更新經費我講科博館這個已經成立了快要40年了比我年紀還大我也在這邊當過志工啊我講科博館是臺中的很重要的一個場館也是全國來講很重要場館在統計上面來講他是全國第2 觀光人數道館人數第2名的這個博物館但他的經費他的這個設備的確我講了這個比較可憐一點的事情\n1009178\t1023485\t我高中的時候16歲17歲的時候去當他的志工我跟院長報告如果今天你來台中科普館再參訪我還可以辦導覽因為沒有什麼改變啊那種基本上一樣20年前的事情\n1024475\t1053470\t那更不用講從以前到現在這個場館基本上沒有太大的更新所以這個當然相關計畫後續科目館他們應該也會報教育部也會報但是我要講的是我們今年其實有去會館有幾個比較重點的部分因為是有會議紀錄的會議紀錄沒有提到說包含說這個太空劇場太空劇場這個東西在幾十年前科目館剛落成的時候剛弄起來這個球型的所謂的這個劇場哇 那時候很先進啊\n1054318\t1065278\t三十幾年前非常先進那時候還沒有IMAX那時候的科普館是非常先進的地方但是如果現在再去同樣的這個所謂太空劇場去看他的這個影像\n1066306\t1076155\t這就有480P而已啊但我們現在進入4K階段了結果他的影像還是這樣子沒有更新到所以那時候我們去會刊的時候當時這個會刊記錄有講說要試113年經費結餘情形或最遲納入114年的預算來調配處理\n1084562\t1084762\t黃健豪議員\n1100678\t1100818\t黃健豪議員\n1130898\t1157966\t怎麼辦我也同意我們包括自然科學在內日新月異的進步我們給國人或是給下一代年輕朋友應該有一個符合現代臺灣在這個學科上面應該有的一個呈現那或許是沒有提到地方基礎上的需求那如果我們進一步的來請教委員或是地方政府或是其他的地方如果在往後的年度可以把它納進去一個計畫的話那我們應該可以審慎的來評估\n1160475\t1175806\t沒有啦 院長你不能往後年度啦這個是會議紀錄我再給你報告一下這個是官方會議回來不是我們服務處做的喔我們服務處做得更細但是官方提供的會議紀錄裡面已經提了理論上今年113年度有結預款就可以拿來用或是最遲\n1176667\t1177368\t教育部有沒有什麼計畫?\n1192350\t1211922\t跟委員報告,非常感謝委員關心科博館的所有工程,包括展示上的工程改善。確實我們在112年已經有先給科博館有一個先期的規劃會,\n1214023\t1225687\t當時也有關這個污水納管的工程跟太空劇場的這些雷射投影機的一個計畫確實當時也說在今年我們在汛期過後如果這個經費上能夠有剩餘的經費我們會優先來支持\n1233170\t1255144\t另外也跟委員報告科博館目前它本身這個基金的一個剩餘也有1億3000多萬所以當時我們也跟交館長說假設有急迫性你就先在現有的基金裡面先處理至於這個有關蓋新的一個大樓總共要大概我今天沒有人提蓋新大樓\n1256244\t1259345\t新建大樓將近要50億我們已經先給規劃會了在去年就先給規劃會那今年在考慮在迅期之後我們也會\n1275011\t1297169\t這一個有關污水跟太空機場的這一個部分的一個改善我們也同意在信息的經費節餘我們會優先來補助那如果在時間上交館長他認為應該優先處理我們也同意他這一個在現有的一個基金裡邊有還有一億三千多萬他可以優先來做處理\n1297529\t1319842\t我想這個不是單一館長或單一場館的問題啦我今天會在這邊提如果今天只是一個場館問題我們就私下寫一條會就好今天特別提出來跟院長講就是因為今天這個是官方的會議紀錄有講了明確的講了要列入最遲114年教育部的預算裡面\n1321151\t1333080\t結果卻沒有列入那我是說這樣的承諾這樣子會議記錄不就等於無效了嗎那如果以後都這樣子做的話那立法委員跟行政部門之間要怎麼樣互信要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去協調\n1334520\t1361208\t今天是白紙黑字寫的 不是空口說白話 大家好好好基本上講一講就沒事了今天是有官方會議紀錄的東西那如果今天 剛剛你提到的這個什麼場館50億 那個東西我知道所以我也沒在這邊提 因為那是長期計畫今天是簡短的 簡單的國家預算三兆多裡面 這個攸關國家科學發展一個場館也就是兩千多萬 頂多四千萬 不同計畫裡面今天一個設備兩千多萬 拿不出來\n1361988\t1385384\t議長,謝謝!\n1387273\t1412213\t接下來我想下個月是國慶日我想提到國慶我想最近大家常常暑假期間很多委員都訪美我也跟院長和大院來分享在訪美之後看到一個景象就是他們真的家家戶戶很多企業也好民間也好真的四處都會輕易的見到他們美國的國旗這個場景在台灣相對來講會比較少見一點\n1413914\t1434402\t好 那為什麼今天特別提出來呢我想因為 最近 一個 要國慶第二個 我想兩岸關係也緊張大家常常說 我們這個戰力要提升新戰也很重要新戰就包含說 民眾對國家的認同感所以我們希望國企除了在國慶日的時候能夠懸掛之外\n1435502\t1459796\t當然相關的這個法令有要求啦這個紀念日節日實施辦法國家紀念日是要來在中央機關在機關裡面來懸掛國旗但是並沒有去鼓勵民間來懸掛國旗所以我今天特別提出來是希望說向院長提出建議是不是能夠獎勵或補助民眾在特定的節日或是什麼國旗日或國慶日等等的來購買或者你就乾脆送大家去掛國旗嘛\n1460643\t1490110\t院長你覺得這有可能嗎謝謝委員雖然我認為國旗重要是掛在心中但是能夠掛在路面上過幾天你就會看到整個凱道都會有很多的國旗總統府也開始布置了每個人讓自己對愛國心的表達會有不同的方式我們都予以尊重那懸掛國旗當然也是一種就像我們在奧運的時候我們雖然看到的是我們的會旗但是唱起國旗歌大家還是非常澎湃像我也把國旗放在手錶上這個也是一種表示你也看到\n1490990\t1516083\t謝謝 謝謝院長因為我想這個還是要提一下這個最近用者的名字叫做認知作戰啊認知作戰對內也很重要啊就讓民眾認知到我們是這個中華民國我們對外團結一致所以這個平常就要建立起來這也是我去這個暑假期間訪美的時候我特別看到他們國家甚至跟他們政治部聊天他們也講平常就要建立起這樣的文化\n1517165\t1518886\t凡事有助於國人團結以國家為最終目標的這種團結任何的表現的形式我都認為是好的\n1538280\t1548706\t不僅是尊重如果大家有好的意見我們都可以共同來討論也支持好 院長謝謝那接下來現在沒有多少時間了我延續上一次的這個質詢有提到所謂外籍勞工的問題\n1550472\t1580212\t在上次7月9號的時候我們跟院長總質詢的時候也提到下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題那院長也提到說營造更好的帶小孩的環境讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場絕對是對生育率有所幫助那所以本國目前是這個三名60歲以下才能申請這個家庭幫傭比較嚴下半年要來檢討那這個部長也提到下半年要來檢討那我想已經下半年了已經即將第四季啦\n1585536\t1607294\t請部長跟委員說明我們之間討論的過程跟現在的想法跟委員報告 院長一直非常關心然後也一直指示我們要針對您的這個提議要來研究那麼先跟您報告我們初步先使用我們先進行我們的多元陪伴服務方案的處理現在我們已經\n1608355\t1634265\t進入這個正式的把多元陪伴服務方案就是所謂的終點移工我們甚至已經把這個具體的那個時程都訂出來了大概在今年11月底我們就可以提供服務了那我們是不是先就這個方案來先做一個試辦之後呢我們會在下半年我們看這個方案進行的情況如何因為其實這個方案其實也有點類似\n1635686\t1662014\t可以類似就是像家庭幫傭這樣的功能對於顧老跟顧小都可以cover而且是沒有這個服務對象的這個資格的設限的沒有很所以是不是可以允許我們把這個事辦方案我們看成效如何如果可以的話也許我們逐步來推動委員所提的建議這樣子部長謝謝因為其實這個提出來最主要就是希望\n1662914\t1663074\t黃健豪議員\n1678425\t1696888\t少子化是一個非常嚴肅的議題那少子化當然很多原因那其中一個最重要的就是現代的雙薪家庭的問題嘛我今天之所以提出來這個外籍幫優放寬的原因就第一個我國的這個所謂的白領的外籍這個這些這個高階白領階級他們是可以直接看薪水來決定\n1697449\t1698390\t發言委員：黃健豪發言委員：黃健豪\n1723723\t1736803\t他除了上班之外回來他能夠鬆開他的雙手他可以不用去背這些書榜他可以多背他的小孩甚至陪他上學等等的所以我們才希望說這個方向能夠往這方去走好不好 院長跟部長\n1738251\t1740292\t最後剩下一分鐘我來跟大家討論一下我們社會主宰的問題\n1761277\t1787708\t先看這個數字啊5月31號的時候目標還是12萬6869到8月31不知道為什麼只剩下12萬1938有五千會不見當然細節我們沒辦法跟討論了因為時間不夠但是這個數字我想讓院長看到一下就為什麼我們的社會住宅的這個數字降低反而降低了那另外我想今天稍早其他委員有關心社宅政策有提到所謂住宅基金的問題那當時候大家講說這個\n1791145\t1816899\t社會住宅跟租金補貼彼此之間不衝突但是我們細究一下所謂住宅基金的數字在明年度的預算裡面社宅在住宅基金裡面只有38億7千萬左右大概40億到包租代管50億租金補貼350億換句話說租房這件事情包租代管加租金補貼就佔了400億那你社宅只花了38億\n1818496\t1818956\t謝謝黃健豪委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長的備詢\n","txt":"主席 麻煩再請卓院長備選\n黃元豪院長好 院長我想首先一開始也要跟大家關心上個禮拜我們想這個司法院判決出來說這個死刑存廢的問題當然這個司法院雖然說死刑核限但是呢他有要求說這個各省級合議庭法官的意見必須一致我想這是這樣在這個判決裡面講說法院組織法\n依照憲法法庭的解釋出來的文字看出來他有這樣的\n施政院院長黃健豪\n相關機關兩年內要提出相關的修法我想民調上看得很清楚百分之84、85的民眾是反對廢除死刑的那今天如果相關機關要提出相關修法的話我想請問像行政院或法務部你們算不算相關機關\n跟委員報告 這個一致覺得這個是屬於平易的審判的一個事務這是規定在法院指示法所以相關機關應該有這個是屬於司法院主管的一個法規所以要有司法院來做一個主政所以到時候這所謂的修法版本不會有你們院版的版本會有行政院的版本他那個事完修法後會會選行政院\n那你法務部的立場是什麼因為到時候一定會徵詢你們意見嗎因為我想這件事情提出來\n雖然說這個死刑是合憲的但其實本質上他就是實質廢死那本席在這邊講這東西如果要送到立法院我要講一下你們是民選政府的官員我們是民意代表我們是投票投出來的這麼多民眾去反對這件事情我真的不知道到時候送進立法院裡面在委會審查也好在大院討論也好我們立法委員要怎麼去審這個法案\n部長或院長你有什麼樣的想法可以教我們我不要怎麼樣去立這個法我不要怎麼樣把法律修到滿足大法官的這個判決才辦法做到這個判決等於零價立法院等於零價行政院的版本\n報告委員我並不認為現在等於就是把它說成是實質廢死用四個字來形容它原則上它是有條件的核限我們在這個有條件核限的框架底下把一些程序讓它完備完備程序的目的在於不要造成冤枉的判決\n李卓人議員\n跟社會能夠非常的接受再來就是我們可以改變一下居禁的方式用終身居禁來取代無期徒刑那樣的這個方式這個是未來司法跟行政院當中乃至於跟立法院大院當中我們互相可以討論的很多的重點所以原則上我不認為這就是實質廢棄有條件我們能夠把條件當上更合理化我看這兩年\n到底要怎麼樣溝通才能讓民眾接受這樣子要立審一字決的這個版本另外我要提醒一件事情如果立審一字決才能夠符合所謂的這個正當法律程序原則的話那是不是其他的行者其他的法律相關的法律不是只有死刑\n那竊盜呢?強盜呢?這些東西是不是歷審都要一致他才符合正當法律程序原則?這個是屬於那個私體面的一個問題那個正當法律程序是要在刑訴訴訟法做一個規範所以\n對於強盜或其他其他的刑事罪者是不是也都要立審都要一致他才能夠符合如果今天那個判處死刑罪那個最嚴重的那個罪行如果說法院要判處死刑的話那根據憲法法庭憲判第8號的一個規定一個判決的意旨這個是要一致決他這個是屬於從一審二審到最高法院的那個都要所有的法官何一庭的法官都要做一致決才能判處死刑\n好 部長那還有個意見嘛那其實過去我們都知道說法院的三級三審是\n如果今天地方法院一審裡面光是一審裡面法官就覺得不需要的時候那他上訴到後面二審、三審之後那你等於剝奪了二審、三審的權利啦過去二審、三審可能跟一審有不一樣的結果那如果今天一審裡面就已經有說有法官不認為他被判處死刑是合理的如果有法官就覺得他不該被判處死刑那所以後面的二審、三審等於也被限制的相關權利了嘛\n這部份檢察官收到判決﹖會斟酌來做一個上訴不是 部長我請教一下專業問題如果今天一審有法官說認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了那二審三審的法官他即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性是不是也無解\n這個沒有這個問題啊這個一審的話如果說他應該判死刑沒有判死刑的話我想這個檢察官會請求上訴或被害人家屬會請求檢察官來做一個上訴我們會審酌那個檢察會審酌那個判決法官判決良形是否妥適\n所以你的立審一致決的這個部分是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都一致嗎?還是不是?三級三審繼續維持嗎?對啊,我就說要一致決\n所以如果在地方法院在第一審的時候他就已經判決說不任務就是他已經沒有死刑有法官決定他不該判處死刑那到了檢察官如果覺得因為過去是這樣嘛過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪行重大但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑所以上訴到這高院高院如果能夠判處他死刑那是不是就有這個死刑的問題那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑了\n檢察官即便上訴了到二審之後二審的法官也不能推翻一審這件事情吧這個不一定要看個案他如果一審的話應該一致決是要判死刑才有一致決的一個問題如果不是判死刑就沒有一致決的一個問題就譬如說一個最終的一個犯刑如果說一審的法院是判無期徒刑如果說檢察不服或被害人的家屬或被家屬會請求檢案來上訴那個上訴到二審\n那當然以憲判第80號的一個判決的意思那二審的話要判死還要一致決所以何立廷的三個法官都要都要都要認為就是要判死來 副長這個當然我這個也確認這個東西我想民眾都非常關心啊對才利用這麼多時間來跟你們就教我想這個我們大家都很關心那個法務部也是非常關心這件事情二審如果說要三個二審的何立廷法官如果都決定要判處死刑如果啦假設某個個案是這樣子\n但是一審的時候還沒有被判處執行這件事情到底是有還是沒有他這樣有沒有能不能被執行事務上會有這種情形那個二審的話如果說認為一審的判決是並未妥適或違法的話二審可以改判二審可以改判嗎可以改判所以他的所謂的立審一次決就不存在了嗎\n這個都要規定是要一字決才能判死刑啊但是如果說一字決他不判死刑的話我們還是可以上訴啊這個二審也是可以做一字決可以判死刑啊所以二審一字決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑跟一審無關不是因為不服一審的才有上訴到二審嘛二審審核如果一審的原來的判決是不非合法妥適\n他這樣的話可以改判為實行只要一致決議可以改判為實行好 部長謝謝那我們後面繼續來討論這個問題謝謝部長委員的意思是說一二三審都要一致決對啊判時都要一致決那這個說法是不是在判事第8號這個解釋文上面引申為這樣的說法我認為一定會引起很多的討論的那我們再看看很多的法律專家所以這個說法並不一定是正確並不一定是照他自認這樣的說法一定會引起討論的修法還會再修吧好 謝謝\n那接下來談論一下地方建設部長謝謝\n我想我們也有關注我們行政院這個新任部長陳志凱部長的臉書我看到他前兩天發了一個這個reel講到說這個響應世界無車日呼籲民眾我剛剛有個截圖我有截到呼籲民眾來乘坐公共運輸那剛好他所在的位置在台北捷運的藍線那剛好我想明年的預算裡面也編列了台中捷運的藍線我想部長也出生在台中也很清楚知道\n今天如果身為一個臺中市民他想要響應這個部長的呼籲響應我們院長的呼籲來響應這個世界無車日但卻只有一條捷運可以搭乘的話我想這個就很難去達到這個目標所以今天提到說我想翻到下一頁臺中市的整體捷運路網裡面先講這個捷運藍線當然預計明年要來動工但是我看目前送進來的這個院板的預算那當然現在程序委員會被退回但是目前的版本\n報告委員\n報告委員藍線的部分目前正在細部計畫的過程當中明年的預算的部分因為現在正在用地取得的部分用地取得本來就是地方政府會多一些所以它撥了八十幾億中央目前是只有五億\n中央該補助的金額絕對會照當時我們大家討論好的那個金額下去補助 這個比例上都沒有問題\n好 謝謝再來院長我要就叫一樣臺中捷運我想部長繼續留著跟這個捷運有關係剛剛上面這個張化的黃議員也有質詢過相關的議題就捷運綠線延伸線的問題我想這卡到所謂的張東都市計劃區那我想這個之前有提到說張東都市計劃區只要有審定那中期的綠線的綜合規劃就能夠抱怨來做相關的審查\n黃健豪議員\n是分段通車的方式來執行因為我想北段這邊基本上沒有太大問題他就是很簡單的一個2點多公里的延伸線南段因為涉及到所謂都市計劃的問題那如果都市計劃因為江東都市計劃就如同剛剛前面黃秀芳委員所說的他從議員當到委員了這次自己還沒有成案\n同樣問題捷運綠線延伸從我當議員到我現在當委員也是一樣看到那個建物的預留線留在那邊但是一直沒有什麼新的進度所以本席今天要問的是說捷運綠線延伸這件事情會因為張東都是計畫而卡關嗎還是有其他的方式可以讓他部分的分階段來通車過去有沒有其他的捷運可以這樣做\n跟委員報告其實這個部分因為我知道台中市這邊這一端大家希望說這個延伸北屯大坑的這一條線速度可以快一些但是因為往南往彰化那邊還有都市計畫的問題所以速度可能會緩一些慢一些\n目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中其實我們可以協助地方政府大家一起來討論一下有沒有可能分段來研究分段來研究也就是說我們大坑段的部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點可不可以分段來處理這個部分我們會來協助地方政府大家一起來討論看看\n臺中捷運目前虧損狀態\n那我想捷運虧損從以前的臺北捷運以前的高雄捷運大家都經歷過這段時間為什麼就是因為捷運那時候就一挑的時候它一定會虧損因為沒有人流嘛那今天我們希望入網能夠形成那今天明年來講捷運藍線即將動工那台中的捷運坦白講全國第二大城它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多所以我想問一下我們這個行政院這邊到底對於未來我們捷運包含說局限連結到中科連結到台中車站\n還有捷運有條紅線整個崇德路這一條很重要的一個紅線因為我知道紅線目前本來預計10年後才會開始評估那我們也有爭取我想交通部也支持 行政院也支持希望讓這個捷運紅線能夠提早開始規劃我想問一下這兩個案子橘線跟紅線有沒有機會加速的來趕快來執行\n跟委員報告目前局限我們正在可行性評估當中那這個部分就由市政府這邊他速度加快我們這邊也會來協助這個沒有問題我希望可行性研究的部分走快一點那另外一個部分您所提到的紅線也就是臺中的崇德一直到豐原的這一段那這一段確實現在的車流量非常的大那也因為您的爭取跟地方政府的爭取我們目前針對可行性研究的部分中央已經會盡量來提供協助跟補助\n好 謝謝謝謝我們交通部的再次想感謝我們院長跟交通部這個臺中捷運真的非常重要要不然其實第二大城一直沒有捷運這件事情其實是很荒謬的事情所以要拜託這個中央權力的支持因為經費上面跟文書作業上各種的審查作業我們都希望能夠減短一點可以不可以\n院長我們盡量依照地方這麼強大的需求那中央在離定計畫跟地方提出各種評估之後能夠在施政上跟地方來配合當然我們願意工程早日的進行跟完工這個當然是我們的期待好 院長謝謝那接下來還是地方建設要跟院長反映一下這過去有會刊 這個部長謝謝\n這過去有會勘過啦就是我們國立自然科學博物館的設備的更新經費我講科博館這個已經成立了快要40年了比我年紀還大我也在這邊當過志工啊我講科博館是臺中的很重要的一個場館也是全國來講很重要場館在統計上面來講他是全國第2 觀光人數道館人數第2名的這個博物館但他的經費他的這個設備的確我講了這個比較可憐一點的事情\n我高中的時候16歲17歲的時候去當他的志工我跟院長報告如果今天你來台中科普館再參訪我還可以辦導覽因為沒有什麼改變啊那種基本上一樣20年前的事情\n那更不用講從以前到現在這個場館基本上沒有太大的更新所以這個當然相關計畫後續科目館他們應該也會報教育部也會報但是我要講的是我們今年其實有去會館有幾個比較重點的部分因為是有會議紀錄的會議紀錄沒有提到說包含說這個太空劇場太空劇場這個東西在幾十年前科目館剛落成的時候剛弄起來這個球型的所謂的這個劇場哇 那時候很先進啊\n三十幾年前非常先進那時候還沒有IMAX那時候的科普館是非常先進的地方但是如果現在再去同樣的這個所謂太空劇場去看他的這個影像\n這就有480P而已啊但我們現在進入4K階段了結果他的影像還是這樣子沒有更新到所以那時候我們去會刊的時候當時這個會刊記錄有講說要試113年經費結餘情形或最遲納入114年的預算來調配處理\n黃健豪議員\n黃健豪議員\n怎麼辦我也同意我們包括自然科學在內日新月異的進步我們給國人或是給下一代年輕朋友應該有一個符合現代臺灣在這個學科上面應該有的一個呈現那或許是沒有提到地方基礎上的需求那如果我們進一步的來請教委員或是地方政府或是其他的地方如果在往後的年度可以把它納進去一個計畫的話那我們應該可以審慎的來評估\n沒有啦 院長你不能往後年度啦這個是會議紀錄我再給你報告一下這個是官方會議回來不是我們服務處做的喔我們服務處做得更細但是官方提供的會議紀錄裡面已經提了理論上今年113年度有結預款就可以拿來用或是最遲\n教育部有沒有什麼計畫?\n跟委員報告,非常感謝委員關心科博館的所有工程,包括展示上的工程改善。確實我們在112年已經有先給科博館有一個先期的規劃會,\n當時也有關這個污水納管的工程跟太空劇場的這些雷射投影機的一個計畫確實當時也說在今年我們在汛期過後如果這個經費上能夠有剩餘的經費我們會優先來支持\n另外也跟委員報告科博館目前它本身這個基金的一個剩餘也有1億3000多萬所以當時我們也跟交館長說假設有急迫性你就先在現有的基金裡面先處理至於這個有關蓋新的一個大樓總共要大概我今天沒有人提蓋新大樓\n新建大樓將近要50億我們已經先給規劃會了在去年就先給規劃會那今年在考慮在迅期之後我們也會\n這一個有關污水跟太空機場的這一個部分的一個改善我們也同意在信息的經費節餘我們會優先來補助那如果在時間上交館長他認為應該優先處理我們也同意他這一個在現有的一個基金裡邊有還有一億三千多萬他可以優先來做處理\n我想這個不是單一館長或單一場館的問題啦我今天會在這邊提如果今天只是一個場館問題我們就私下寫一條會就好今天特別提出來跟院長講就是因為今天這個是官方的會議紀錄有講了明確的講了要列入最遲114年教育部的預算裡面\n結果卻沒有列入那我是說這樣的承諾這樣子會議記錄不就等於無效了嗎那如果以後都這樣子做的話那立法委員跟行政部門之間要怎麼樣互信要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去協調\n今天是白紙黑字寫的 不是空口說白話 大家好好好基本上講一講就沒事了今天是有官方會議紀錄的東西那如果今天 剛剛你提到的這個什麼場館50億 那個東西我知道所以我也沒在這邊提 因為那是長期計畫今天是簡短的 簡單的國家預算三兆多裡面 這個攸關國家科學發展一個場館也就是兩千多萬 頂多四千萬 不同計畫裡面今天一個設備兩千多萬 拿不出來\n議長,謝謝!\n接下來我想下個月是國慶日我想提到國慶我想最近大家常常暑假期間很多委員都訪美我也跟院長和大院來分享在訪美之後看到一個景象就是他們真的家家戶戶很多企業也好民間也好真的四處都會輕易的見到他們美國的國旗這個場景在台灣相對來講會比較少見一點\n好 那為什麼今天特別提出來呢我想因為 最近 一個 要國慶第二個 我想兩岸關係也緊張大家常常說 我們這個戰力要提升新戰也很重要新戰就包含說 民眾對國家的認同感所以我們希望國企除了在國慶日的時候能夠懸掛之外\n當然相關的這個法令有要求啦這個紀念日節日實施辦法國家紀念日是要來在中央機關在機關裡面來懸掛國旗但是並沒有去鼓勵民間來懸掛國旗所以我今天特別提出來是希望說向院長提出建議是不是能夠獎勵或補助民眾在特定的節日或是什麼國旗日或國慶日等等的來購買或者你就乾脆送大家去掛國旗嘛\n院長你覺得這有可能嗎謝謝委員雖然我認為國旗重要是掛在心中但是能夠掛在路面上過幾天你就會看到整個凱道都會有很多的國旗總統府也開始布置了每個人讓自己對愛國心的表達會有不同的方式我們都予以尊重那懸掛國旗當然也是一種就像我們在奧運的時候我們雖然看到的是我們的會旗但是唱起國旗歌大家還是非常澎湃像我也把國旗放在手錶上這個也是一種表示你也看到\n謝謝 謝謝院長因為我想這個還是要提一下這個最近用者的名字叫做認知作戰啊認知作戰對內也很重要啊就讓民眾認知到我們是這個中華民國我們對外團結一致所以這個平常就要建立起來這也是我去這個暑假期間訪美的時候我特別看到他們國家甚至跟他們政治部聊天他們也講平常就要建立起這樣的文化\n凡事有助於國人團結以國家為最終目標的這種團結任何的表現的形式我都認為是好的\n不僅是尊重如果大家有好的意見我們都可以共同來討論也支持好 院長謝謝那接下來現在沒有多少時間了我延續上一次的這個質詢有提到所謂外籍勞工的問題\n在上次7月9號的時候我們跟院長總質詢的時候也提到下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題那院長也提到說營造更好的帶小孩的環境讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場絕對是對生育率有所幫助那所以本國目前是這個三名60歲以下才能申請這個家庭幫傭比較嚴下半年要來檢討那這個部長也提到下半年要來檢討那我想已經下半年了已經即將第四季啦\n請部長跟委員說明我們之間討論的過程跟現在的想法跟委員報告 院長一直非常關心然後也一直指示我們要針對您的這個提議要來研究那麼先跟您報告我們初步先使用我們先進行我們的多元陪伴服務方案的處理現在我們已經\n進入這個正式的把多元陪伴服務方案就是所謂的終點移工我們甚至已經把這個具體的那個時程都訂出來了大概在今年11月底我們就可以提供服務了那我們是不是先就這個方案來先做一個試辦之後呢我們會在下半年我們看這個方案進行的情況如何因為其實這個方案其實也有點類似\n可以類似就是像家庭幫傭這樣的功能對於顧老跟顧小都可以cover而且是沒有這個服務對象的這個資格的設限的沒有很所以是不是可以允許我們把這個事辦方案我們看成效如何如果可以的話也許我們逐步來推動委員所提的建議這樣子部長謝謝因為其實這個提出來最主要就是希望\n黃健豪議員\n少子化是一個非常嚴肅的議題那少子化當然很多原因那其中一個最重要的就是現代的雙薪家庭的問題嘛我今天之所以提出來這個外籍幫優放寬的原因就第一個我國的這個所謂的白領的外籍這個這些這個高階白領階級他們是可以直接看薪水來決定\n發言委員：黃健豪發言委員：黃健豪\n他除了上班之外回來他能夠鬆開他的雙手他可以不用去背這些書榜他可以多背他的小孩甚至陪他上學等等的所以我們才希望說這個方向能夠往這方去走好不好 院長跟部長\n最後剩下一分鐘我來跟大家討論一下我們社會主宰的問題\n先看這個數字啊5月31號的時候目標還是12萬6869到8月31不知道為什麼只剩下12萬1938有五千會不見當然細節我們沒辦法跟討論了因為時間不夠但是這個數字我想讓院長看到一下就為什麼我們的社會住宅的這個數字降低反而降低了那另外我想今天稍早其他委員有關心社宅政策有提到所謂住宅基金的問題那當時候大家講說這個\n社會住宅跟租金補貼彼此之間不衝突但是我們細究一下所謂住宅基金的數字在明年度的預算裡面社宅在住宅基金裡面只有38億7千萬左右大概40億到包租代管50億租金補貼350億換句話說租房這件事情包租代管加租金補貼就佔了400億那你社宅只花了38億\n謝謝黃健豪委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長的備詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.290 --> 00:09.854\n主席麻煩再請卓院長備選\n\n00:20.669 --> 00:42.458\n黃元豪院長好院長我想首先一開始也要跟大家關心上個禮拜我們想這個司法院判決出來說這個死刑存廢的問題當然這個司法院雖然說死刑核限但是呢他有要求說這個各省級合議庭法官的意見必須一致我想這是這樣在這個判決裡面講說法院組織法\n\n00:46.927 --> 00:50.370\n依照憲法法庭的解釋出來的文字看出來他有這樣的\n\n01:14.189 --> 01:14.989\n施政院院長黃健豪\n\n01:40.979 --> 01:57.207\n相關機關兩年內要提出相關的修法我想民調上看得很清楚百分之84、85的民眾是反對廢除死刑的那今天如果相關機關要提出相關修法的話我想請問像行政院或法務部你們算不算相關機關\n\n01:58.528 --> 02:22.174\n跟委員報告這個一致覺得這個是屬於平易的審判的一個事務這是規定在法院指示法所以相關機關應該有這個是屬於司法院主管的一個法規所以要有司法院來做一個主政所以到時候這所謂的修法版本不會有你們院版的版本會有行政院的版本他那個事完修法後會會選行政院\n\n02:23.148 --> 02:24.109\n那你法務部的立場是什麼因為到時候一定會徵詢你們意見嗎因為我想這件事情提出來\n\n02:48.241 --> 03:12.307\n雖然說這個死刑是合憲的但其實本質上他就是實質廢死那本席在這邊講這東西如果要送到立法院我要講一下你們是民選政府的官員我們是民意代表我們是投票投出來的這麼多民眾去反對這件事情我真的不知道到時候送進立法院裡面在委會審查也好在大院討論也好我們立法委員要怎麼去審這個法案\n\n03:13.087 --> 03:26.582\n部長或院長你有什麼樣的想法可以教我們我不要怎麼樣去立這個法我不要怎麼樣把法律修到滿足大法官的這個判決才辦法做到這個判決等於零價立法院等於零價行政院的版本\n\n03:28.437 --> 03:46.845\n報告委員我並不認為現在等於就是把它說成是實質廢死用四個字來形容它原則上它是有條件的核限我們在這個有條件核限的框架底下把一些程序讓它完備完備程序的目的在於不要造成冤枉的判決\n\n03:47.705 --> 03:47.905\n李卓人議員\n\n04:04.395 --> 04:25.379\n跟社會能夠非常的接受再來就是我們可以改變一下居禁的方式用終身居禁來取代無期徒刑那樣的這個方式這個是未來司法跟行政院當中乃至於跟立法院大院當中我們互相可以討論的很多的重點所以原則上我不認為這就是實質廢棄有條件我們能夠把條件當上更合理化我看這兩年\n\n04:31.480 --> 04:49.970\n到底要怎麼樣溝通才能讓民眾接受這樣子要立審一字決的這個版本另外我要提醒一件事情如果立審一字決才能夠符合所謂的這個正當法律程序原則的話那是不是其他的行者其他的法律相關的法律不是只有死刑\n\n04:50.796 --> 05:03.706\n那竊盜呢?強盜呢?這些東西是不是歷審都要一致他才符合正當法律程序原則?這個是屬於那個私體面的一個問題那個正當法律程序是要在刑訴訴訟法做一個規範所以\n\n05:08.325 --> 05:37.809\n對於強盜或其他其他的刑事罪者是不是也都要立審都要一致他才能夠符合如果今天那個判處死刑罪那個最嚴重的那個罪行如果說法院要判處死刑的話那根據憲法法庭憲判第8號的一個規定一個判決的意旨這個是要一致決他這個是屬於從一審二審到最高法院的那個都要所有的法官何一庭的法官都要做一致決才能判處死刑\n\n05:38.209 --> 05:43.059\n好部長那還有個意見嘛那其實過去我們都知道說法院的三級三審是\n\n05:44.312 --> 06:09.768\n如果今天地方法院一審裡面光是一審裡面法官就覺得不需要的時候那他上訴到後面二審、三審之後那你等於剝奪了二審、三審的權利啦過去二審、三審可能跟一審有不一樣的結果那如果今天一審裡面就已經有說有法官不認為他被判處死刑是合理的如果有法官就覺得他不該被判處死刑那所以後面的二審、三審等於也被限制的相關權利了嘛\n\n06:12.283 --> 06:35.041\n這部份檢察官收到判決﹖會斟酌來做一個上訴不是部長我請教一下專業問題如果今天一審有法官說認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了那二審三審的法官他即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性是不是也無解\n\n06:36.579 --> 06:52.174\n這個沒有這個問題啊這個一審的話如果說他應該判死刑沒有判死刑的話我想這個檢察官會請求上訴或被害人家屬會請求檢察官來做一個上訴我們會審酌那個檢察會審酌那個判決法官判決良形是否妥適\n\n06:52.970 --> 07:00.998\n所以你的立審一致決的這個部分是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都一致嗎?還是不是?三級三審繼續維持嗎?對啊,我就說要一致決\n\n07:10.106 --> 07:36.722\n所以如果在地方法院在第一審的時候他就已經判決說不任務就是他已經沒有死刑有法官決定他不該判處死刑那到了檢察官如果覺得因為過去是這樣嘛過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪行重大但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑所以上訴到這高院高院如果能夠判處他死刑那是不是就有這個死刑的問題那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑了\n\n07:37.890 --> 08:03.586\n檢察官即便上訴了到二審之後二審的法官也不能推翻一審這件事情吧這個不一定要看個案他如果一審的話應該一致決是要判死刑才有一致決的一個問題如果不是判死刑就沒有一致決的一個問題就譬如說一個最終的一個犯刑如果說一審的法院是判無期徒刑如果說檢察不服或被害人的家屬或被家屬會請求檢案來上訴那個上訴到二審\n\n08:04.406 --> 08:33.884\n那當然以憲判第80號的一個判決的意思那二審的話要判死還要一致決所以何立廷的三個法官都要都要都要認為就是要判死來副長這個當然我這個也確認這個東西我想民眾都非常關心啊對才利用這麼多時間來跟你們就教我想這個我們大家都很關心那個法務部也是非常關心這件事情二審如果說要三個二審的何立廷法官如果都決定要判處死刑如果啦假設某個個案是這樣子\n\n08:34.963 --> 08:55.874\n但是一審的時候還沒有被判處執行這件事情到底是有還是沒有他這樣有沒有能不能被執行事務上會有這種情形那個二審的話如果說認為一審的判決是並未妥適或違法的話二審可以改判二審可以改判嗎可以改判所以他的所謂的立審一次決就不存在了嗎\n\n09:00.055 --> 09:22.021\n這個都要規定是要一字決才能判死刑啊但是如果說一字決他不判死刑的話我們還是可以上訴啊這個二審也是可以做一字決可以判死刑啊所以二審一字決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑跟一審無關不是因為不服一審的才有上訴到二審嘛二審審核如果一審的原來的判決是不非合法妥適\n\n09:23.137 --> 09:48.719\n他這樣的話可以改判為實行只要一致決議可以改判為實行好部長謝謝那我們後面繼續來討論這個問題謝謝部長委員的意思是說一二三審都要一致決對啊判時都要一致決那這個說法是不是在判事第8號這個解釋文上面引申為這樣的說法我認為一定會引起很多的討論的那我們再看看很多的法律專家所以這個說法並不一定是正確並不一定是照他自認這樣的說法一定會引起討論的修法還會再修吧好謝謝\n\n09:52.503 --> 09:53.726\n那接下來談論一下地方建設部長謝謝\n\n09:56.192 --> 10:22.400\n我想我們也有關注我們行政院這個新任部長陳志凱部長的臉書我看到他前兩天發了一個這個reel講到說這個響應世界無車日呼籲民眾我剛剛有個截圖我有截到呼籲民眾來乘坐公共運輸那剛好他所在的位置在台北捷運的藍線那剛好我想明年的預算裡面也編列了台中捷運的藍線我想部長也出生在台中也很清楚知道\n\n10:23.300 --> 10:51.401\n今天如果身為一個臺中市民他想要響應這個部長的呼籲響應我們院長的呼籲來響應這個世界無車日但卻只有一條捷運可以搭乘的話我想這個就很難去達到這個目標所以今天提到說我想翻到下一頁臺中市的整體捷運路網裡面先講這個捷運藍線當然預計明年要來動工但是我看目前送進來的這個院板的預算那當然現在程序委員會被退回但是目前的版本\n\n10:52.709 --> 10:52.849\n報告委員\n\n11:17.469 --> 11:33.203\n報告委員藍線的部分目前正在細部計畫的過程當中明年的預算的部分因為現在正在用地取得的部分用地取得本來就是地方政府會多一些所以它撥了八十幾億中央目前是只有五億\n\n11:33.843 --> 11:37.868\n中央該補助的金額絕對會照當時我們大家討論好的那個金額下去補助這個比例上都沒有問題\n\n11:49.480 --> 12:12.415\n好謝謝再來院長我要就叫一樣臺中捷運我想部長繼續留著跟這個捷運有關係剛剛上面這個張化的黃議員也有質詢過相關的議題就捷運綠線延伸線的問題我想這卡到所謂的張東都市計劃區那我想這個之前有提到說張東都市計劃區只要有審定那中期的綠線的綜合規劃就能夠抱怨來做相關的審查\n\n12:13.422 --> 12:13.482\n黃健豪議員\n\n12:34.196 --> 12:55.775\n是分段通車的方式來執行因為我想北段這邊基本上沒有太大問題他就是很簡單的一個2點多公里的延伸線南段因為涉及到所謂都市計劃的問題那如果都市計劃因為江東都市計劃就如同剛剛前面黃秀芳委員所說的他從議員當到委員了這次自己還沒有成案\n\n12:56.375 --> 13:17.356\n同樣問題捷運綠線延伸從我當議員到我現在當委員也是一樣看到那個建物的預留線留在那邊但是一直沒有什麼新的進度所以本席今天要問的是說捷運綠線延伸這件事情會因為張東都是計畫而卡關嗎還是有其他的方式可以讓他部分的分階段來通車過去有沒有其他的捷運可以這樣做\n\n13:20.959 --> 13:38.184\n跟委員報告其實這個部分因為我知道台中市這邊這一端大家希望說這個延伸北屯大坑的這一條線速度可以快一些但是因為往南往彰化那邊還有都市計畫的問題所以速度可能會緩一些慢一些\n\n13:38.824 --> 13:56.609\n目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中其實我們可以協助地方政府大家一起來討論一下有沒有可能分段來研究分段來研究也就是說我們大坑段的部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點可不可以分段來處理這個部分我們會來協助地方政府大家一起來討論看看\n\n13:57.709 --> 13:57.909\n臺中捷運目前虧損狀態\n\n14:14.339 --> 14:42.584\n那我想捷運虧損從以前的臺北捷運以前的高雄捷運大家都經歷過這段時間為什麼就是因為捷運那時候就一挑的時候它一定會虧損因為沒有人流嘛那今天我們希望入網能夠形成那今天明年來講捷運藍線即將動工那台中的捷運坦白講全國第二大城它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多所以我想問一下我們這個行政院這邊到底對於未來我們捷運包含說局限連結到中科連結到台中車站\n\n14:43.604 --> 15:03.435\n還有捷運有條紅線整個崇德路這一條很重要的一個紅線因為我知道紅線目前本來預計10年後才會開始評估那我們也有爭取我想交通部也支持行政院也支持希望讓這個捷運紅線能夠提早開始規劃我想問一下這兩個案子橘線跟紅線有沒有機會加速的來趕快來執行\n\n15:06.432 --> 15:34.233\n跟委員報告目前局限我們正在可行性評估當中那這個部分就由市政府這邊他速度加快我們這邊也會來協助這個沒有問題我希望可行性研究的部分走快一點那另外一個部分您所提到的紅線也就是臺中的崇德一直到豐原的這一段那這一段確實現在的車流量非常的大那也因為您的爭取跟地方政府的爭取我們目前針對可行性研究的部分中央已經會盡量來提供協助跟補助\n\n15:35.114 --> 15:54.373\n好謝謝謝謝我們交通部的再次想感謝我們院長跟交通部這個臺中捷運真的非常重要要不然其實第二大城一直沒有捷運這件事情其實是很荒謬的事情所以要拜託這個中央權力的支持因為經費上面跟文書作業上各種的審查作業我們都希望能夠減短一點可以不可以\n\n15:56.494 --> 16:17.888\n院長我們盡量依照地方這麼強大的需求那中央在離定計畫跟地方提出各種評估之後能夠在施政上跟地方來配合當然我們願意工程早日的進行跟完工這個當然是我們的期待好院長謝謝那接下來還是地方建設要跟院長反映一下這過去有會刊這個部長謝謝\n\n16:20.823 --> 16:44.391\n這過去有會勘過啦就是我們國立自然科學博物館的設備的更新經費我講科博館這個已經成立了快要40年了比我年紀還大我也在這邊當過志工啊我講科博館是臺中的很重要的一個場館也是全國來講很重要場館在統計上面來講他是全國第2觀光人數道館人數第2名的這個博物館但他的經費他的這個設備的確我講了這個比較可憐一點的事情\n\n16:49.178 --> 17:03.485\n我高中的時候16歲17歲的時候去當他的志工我跟院長報告如果今天你來台中科普館再參訪我還可以辦導覽因為沒有什麼改變啊那種基本上一樣20年前的事情\n\n17:04.475 --> 17:33.470\n那更不用講從以前到現在這個場館基本上沒有太大的更新所以這個當然相關計畫後續科目館他們應該也會報教育部也會報但是我要講的是我們今年其實有去會館有幾個比較重點的部分因為是有會議紀錄的會議紀錄沒有提到說包含說這個太空劇場太空劇場這個東西在幾十年前科目館剛落成的時候剛弄起來這個球型的所謂的這個劇場哇那時候很先進啊\n\n17:34.318 --> 17:45.278\n三十幾年前非常先進那時候還沒有IMAX那時候的科普館是非常先進的地方但是如果現在再去同樣的這個所謂太空劇場去看他的這個影像\n\n17:46.306 --> 17:56.155\n這就有480P而已啊但我們現在進入4K階段了結果他的影像還是這樣子沒有更新到所以那時候我們去會刊的時候當時這個會刊記錄有講說要試113年經費結餘情形或最遲納入114年的預算來調配處理\n\n18:04.562 --> 18:04.762\n黃健豪議員\n\n18:20.678 --> 18:20.818\n黃健豪議員\n\n18:50.898 --> 19:17.966\n怎麼辦我也同意我們包括自然科學在內日新月異的進步我們給國人或是給下一代年輕朋友應該有一個符合現代臺灣在這個學科上面應該有的一個呈現那或許是沒有提到地方基礎上的需求那如果我們進一步的來請教委員或是地方政府或是其他的地方如果在往後的年度可以把它納進去一個計畫的話那我們應該可以審慎的來評估\n\n19:20.475 --> 19:35.806\n沒有啦院長你不能往後年度啦這個是會議紀錄我再給你報告一下這個是官方會議回來不是我們服務處做的喔我們服務處做得更細但是官方提供的會議紀錄裡面已經提了理論上今年113年度有結預款就可以拿來用或是最遲\n\n19:36.667 --> 19:37.368\n教育部有沒有什麼計畫?\n\n19:52.350 --> 20:11.922\n跟委員報告,非常感謝委員關心科博館的所有工程,包括展示上的工程改善。確實我們在112年已經有先給科博館有一個先期的規劃會,\n\n20:14.023 --> 20:25.687\n當時也有關這個污水納管的工程跟太空劇場的這些雷射投影機的一個計畫確實當時也說在今年我們在汛期過後如果這個經費上能夠有剩餘的經費我們會優先來支持\n\n20:33.170 --> 20:55.144\n另外也跟委員報告科博館目前它本身這個基金的一個剩餘也有1億3000多萬所以當時我們也跟交館長說假設有急迫性你就先在現有的基金裡面先處理至於這個有關蓋新的一個大樓總共要大概我今天沒有人提蓋新大樓\n\n20:56.244 --> 20:59.345\n新建大樓將近要50億我們已經先給規劃會了在去年就先給規劃會那今年在考慮在迅期之後我們也會\n\n21:15.011 --> 21:37.169\n這一個有關污水跟太空機場的這一個部分的一個改善我們也同意在信息的經費節餘我們會優先來補助那如果在時間上交館長他認為應該優先處理我們也同意他這一個在現有的一個基金裡邊有還有一億三千多萬他可以優先來做處理\n\n21:37.529 --> 21:59.842\n我想這個不是單一館長或單一場館的問題啦我今天會在這邊提如果今天只是一個場館問題我們就私下寫一條會就好今天特別提出來跟院長講就是因為今天這個是官方的會議紀錄有講了明確的講了要列入最遲114年教育部的預算裡面\n\n22:01.151 --> 22:13.080\n結果卻沒有列入那我是說這樣的承諾這樣子會議記錄不就等於無效了嗎那如果以後都這樣子做的話那立法委員跟行政部門之間要怎麼樣互信要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去協調\n\n22:14.520 --> 22:41.208\n今天是白紙黑字寫的不是空口說白話大家好好好基本上講一講就沒事了今天是有官方會議紀錄的東西那如果今天剛剛你提到的這個什麼場館50億那個東西我知道所以我也沒在這邊提因為那是長期計畫今天是簡短的簡單的國家預算三兆多裡面這個攸關國家科學發展一個場館也就是兩千多萬頂多四千萬不同計畫裡面今天一個設備兩千多萬拿不出來\n\n23:07.273 --> 23:32.213\n接下來我想下個月是國慶日我想提到國慶我想最近大家常常暑假期間很多委員都訪美我也跟院長和大院來分享在訪美之後看到一個景象就是他們真的家家戶戶很多企業也好民間也好真的四處都會輕易的見到他們美國的國旗這個場景在台灣相對來講會比較少見一點\n\n23:33.914 --> 23:54.402\n好那為什麼今天特別提出來呢我想因為最近一個要國慶第二個我想兩岸關係也緊張大家常常說我們這個戰力要提升新戰也很重要新戰就包含說民眾對國家的認同感所以我們希望國企除了在國慶日的時候能夠懸掛之外\n\n23:55.502 --> 24:19.796\n當然相關的這個法令有要求啦這個紀念日節日實施辦法國家紀念日是要來在中央機關在機關裡面來懸掛國旗但是並沒有去鼓勵民間來懸掛國旗所以我今天特別提出來是希望說向院長提出建議是不是能夠獎勵或補助民眾在特定的節日或是什麼國旗日或國慶日等等的來購買或者你就乾脆送大家去掛國旗嘛\n\n24:20.643 --> 24:50.110\n院長你覺得這有可能嗎謝謝委員雖然我認為國旗重要是掛在心中但是能夠掛在路面上過幾天你就會看到整個凱道都會有很多的國旗總統府也開始布置了每個人讓自己對愛國心的表達會有不同的方式我們都予以尊重那懸掛國旗當然也是一種就像我們在奧運的時候我們雖然看到的是我們的會旗但是唱起國旗歌大家還是非常澎湃像我也把國旗放在手錶上這個也是一種表示你也看到\n\n24:50.990 --> 25:16.083\n謝謝謝謝院長因為我想這個還是要提一下這個最近用者的名字叫做認知作戰啊認知作戰對內也很重要啊就讓民眾認知到我們是這個中華民國我們對外團結一致所以這個平常就要建立起來這也是我去這個暑假期間訪美的時候我特別看到他們國家甚至跟他們政治部聊天他們也講平常就要建立起這樣的文化\n\n25:17.165 --> 25:18.886\n凡事有助於國人團結以國家為最終目標的這種團結任何的表現的形式我都認為是好的\n\n25:38.280 --> 25:48.706\n不僅是尊重如果大家有好的意見我們都可以共同來討論也支持好院長謝謝那接下來現在沒有多少時間了我延續上一次的這個質詢有提到所謂外籍勞工的問題\n\n25:50.472 --> 26:20.212\n在上次7月9號的時候我們跟院長總質詢的時候也提到下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題那院長也提到說營造更好的帶小孩的環境讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場絕對是對生育率有所幫助那所以本國目前是這個三名60歲以下才能申請這個家庭幫傭比較嚴下半年要來檢討那這個部長也提到下半年要來檢討那我想已經下半年了已經即將第四季啦\n\n26:25.536 --> 26:47.294\n請部長跟委員說明我們之間討論的過程跟現在的想法跟委員報告院長一直非常關心然後也一直指示我們要針對您的這個提議要來研究那麼先跟您報告我們初步先使用我們先進行我們的多元陪伴服務方案的處理現在我們已經\n\n26:48.355 --> 27:14.265\n進入這個正式的把多元陪伴服務方案就是所謂的終點移工我們甚至已經把這個具體的那個時程都訂出來了大概在今年11月底我們就可以提供服務了那我們是不是先就這個方案來先做一個試辦之後呢我們會在下半年我們看這個方案進行的情況如何因為其實這個方案其實也有點類似\n\n27:15.686 --> 27:42.014\n可以類似就是像家庭幫傭這樣的功能對於顧老跟顧小都可以cover而且是沒有這個服務對象的這個資格的設限的沒有很所以是不是可以允許我們把這個事辦方案我們看成效如何如果可以的話也許我們逐步來推動委員所提的建議這樣子部長謝謝因為其實這個提出來最主要就是希望\n\n27:42.914 --> 27:43.074\n黃健豪議員\n\n27:58.425 --> 28:16.888\n少子化是一個非常嚴肅的議題那少子化當然很多原因那其中一個最重要的就是現代的雙薪家庭的問題嘛我今天之所以提出來這個外籍幫優放寬的原因就第一個我國的這個所謂的白領的外籍這個這些這個高階白領階級他們是可以直接看薪水來決定\n\n28:17.449 --> 28:18.390\n發言委員：黃健豪發言委員：黃健豪\n\n28:43.723 --> 28:56.803\n他除了上班之外回來他能夠鬆開他的雙手他可以不用去背這些書榜他可以多背他的小孩甚至陪他上學等等的所以我們才希望說這個方向能夠往這方去走好不好院長跟部長\n\n28:58.251 --> 29:00.292\n最後剩下一分鐘我來跟大家討論一下我們社會主宰的問題\n\n29:21.277 --> 29:47.708\n先看這個數字啊5月31號的時候目標還是12萬6869到8月31不知道為什麼只剩下12萬1938有五千會不見當然細節我們沒辦法跟討論了因為時間不夠但是這個數字我想讓院長看到一下就為什麼我們的社會住宅的這個數字降低反而降低了那另外我想今天稍早其他委員有關心社宅政策有提到所謂住宅基金的問題那當時候大家講說這個\n\n29:51.145 --> 30:16.899\n社會住宅跟租金補貼彼此之間不衝突但是我們細究一下所謂住宅基金的數字在明年度的預算裡面社宅在住宅基金裡面只有38億7千萬左右大概40億到包租代管50億租金補貼350億換句話說租房這件事情包租代管加租金補貼就佔了400億那你社宅只花了38億\n\n30:18.496 --> 30:18.956\n謝謝黃健豪委員的質詢謝謝卓院長的備詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.29,"end":9.854,"text":"主席 麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":20.669,"end":42.458,"text":"黃元豪院長好 院長我想首先一開始也要跟大家關心上個禮拜我們想這個司法院判決出來說這個死刑存廢的問題當然這個司法院雖然說死刑核限但是呢他有要求說這個各省級合議庭法官的意見必須一致我想這是這樣在這個判決裡面講說法院組織法"},{"start":46.927,"end":50.37,"text":"依照憲法法庭的解釋出來的文字看出來他有這樣的"},{"start":74.189,"end":74.989,"text":"施政院院長黃健豪"},{"start":100.979,"end":117.207,"text":"相關機關兩年內要提出相關的修法我想民調上看得很清楚百分之84、85的民眾是反對廢除死刑的那今天如果相關機關要提出相關修法的話我想請問像行政院或法務部你們算不算相關機關"},{"start":118.528,"end":142.174,"text":"跟委員報告 這個一致覺得這個是屬於平易的審判的一個事務這是規定在法院指示法所以相關機關應該有這個是屬於司法院主管的一個法規所以要有司法院來做一個主政所以到時候這所謂的修法版本不會有你們院版的版本會有行政院的版本他那個事完修法後會會選行政院"},{"start":143.148,"end":144.109,"text":"那你法務部的立場是什麼因為到時候一定會徵詢你們意見嗎因為我想這件事情提出來"},{"start":168.241,"end":192.307,"text":"雖然說這個死刑是合憲的但其實本質上他就是實質廢死那本席在這邊講這東西如果要送到立法院我要講一下你們是民選政府的官員我們是民意代表我們是投票投出來的這麼多民眾去反對這件事情我真的不知道到時候送進立法院裡面在委會審查也好在大院討論也好我們立法委員要怎麼去審這個法案"},{"start":193.087,"end":206.582,"text":"部長或院長你有什麼樣的想法可以教我們我不要怎麼樣去立這個法我不要怎麼樣把法律修到滿足大法官的這個判決才辦法做到這個判決等於零價立法院等於零價行政院的版本"},{"start":208.437,"end":226.845,"text":"報告委員我並不認為現在等於就是把它說成是實質廢死用四個字來形容它原則上它是有條件的核限我們在這個有條件核限的框架底下把一些程序讓它完備完備程序的目的在於不要造成冤枉的判決"},{"start":227.705,"end":227.905,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":244.395,"end":265.379,"text":"跟社會能夠非常的接受再來就是我們可以改變一下居禁的方式用終身居禁來取代無期徒刑那樣的這個方式這個是未來司法跟行政院當中乃至於跟立法院大院當中我們互相可以討論的很多的重點所以原則上我不認為這就是實質廢棄有條件我們能夠把條件當上更合理化我看這兩年"},{"start":271.48,"end":289.97,"text":"到底要怎麼樣溝通才能讓民眾接受這樣子要立審一字決的這個版本另外我要提醒一件事情如果立審一字決才能夠符合所謂的這個正當法律程序原則的話那是不是其他的行者其他的法律相關的法律不是只有死刑"},{"start":290.796,"end":303.706,"text":"那竊盜呢?強盜呢?這些東西是不是歷審都要一致他才符合正當法律程序原則?這個是屬於那個私體面的一個問題那個正當法律程序是要在刑訴訴訟法做一個規範所以"},{"start":308.325,"end":337.809,"text":"對於強盜或其他其他的刑事罪者是不是也都要立審都要一致他才能夠符合如果今天那個判處死刑罪那個最嚴重的那個罪行如果說法院要判處死刑的話那根據憲法法庭憲判第8號的一個規定一個判決的意旨這個是要一致決他這個是屬於從一審二審到最高法院的那個都要所有的法官何一庭的法官都要做一致決才能判處死刑"},{"start":338.209,"end":343.059,"text":"好 部長那還有個意見嘛那其實過去我們都知道說法院的三級三審是"},{"start":344.312,"end":369.768,"text":"如果今天地方法院一審裡面光是一審裡面法官就覺得不需要的時候那他上訴到後面二審、三審之後那你等於剝奪了二審、三審的權利啦過去二審、三審可能跟一審有不一樣的結果那如果今天一審裡面就已經有說有法官不認為他被判處死刑是合理的如果有法官就覺得他不該被判處死刑那所以後面的二審、三審等於也被限制的相關權利了嘛"},{"start":372.283,"end":395.041,"text":"這部份檢察官收到判決﹖會斟酌來做一個上訴不是 部長我請教一下專業問題如果今天一審有法官說認為這個罪犯他不能判處死刑所以一審的法官已經有這樣子的見解了那二審三審的法官他即便覺得他有判處死刑的必要性是不是也無解"},{"start":396.579,"end":412.174,"text":"這個沒有這個問題啊這個一審的話如果說他應該判死刑沒有判死刑的話我想這個檢察官會請求上訴或被害人家屬會請求檢察官來做一個上訴我們會審酌那個檢察會審酌那個判決法官判決良形是否妥適"},{"start":412.97,"end":420.998,"text":"所以你的立審一致決的這個部分是從一審裡面的法官到三審的法官都一致嗎?還是不是?三級三審繼續維持嗎?對啊,我就說要一致決"},{"start":430.106,"end":456.722,"text":"所以如果在地方法院在第一審的時候他就已經判決說不任務就是他已經沒有死刑有法官決定他不該判處死刑那到了檢察官如果覺得因為過去是這樣嘛過去檢察官如果覺得這個人罪行重大但是在地方法院如果沒有判處他死刑所以上訴到這高院高院如果能夠判處他死刑那是不是就有這個死刑的問題那如果現在地方法院第一審的時候就沒有判處死刑了"},{"start":457.89,"end":483.586,"text":"檢察官即便上訴了到二審之後二審的法官也不能推翻一審這件事情吧這個不一定要看個案他如果一審的話應該一致決是要判死刑才有一致決的一個問題如果不是判死刑就沒有一致決的一個問題就譬如說一個最終的一個犯刑如果說一審的法院是判無期徒刑如果說檢察不服或被害人的家屬或被家屬會請求檢案來上訴那個上訴到二審"},{"start":484.406,"end":513.884,"text":"那當然以憲判第80號的一個判決的意思那二審的話要判死還要一致決所以何立廷的三個法官都要都要都要認為就是要判死來 副長這個當然我這個也確認這個東西我想民眾都非常關心啊對才利用這麼多時間來跟你們就教我想這個我們大家都很關心那個法務部也是非常關心這件事情二審如果說要三個二審的何立廷法官如果都決定要判處死刑如果啦假設某個個案是這樣子"},{"start":514.963,"end":535.874,"text":"但是一審的時候還沒有被判處執行這件事情到底是有還是沒有他這樣有沒有能不能被執行事務上會有這種情形那個二審的話如果說認為一審的判決是並未妥適或違法的話二審可以改判二審可以改判嗎可以改判所以他的所謂的立審一次決就不存在了嗎"},{"start":540.055,"end":562.021,"text":"這個都要規定是要一字決才能判死刑啊但是如果說一字決他不判死刑的話我們還是可以上訴啊這個二審也是可以做一字決可以判死刑啊所以二審一字決如果判死刑就是可以判死刑跟一審無關不是因為不服一審的才有上訴到二審嘛二審審核如果一審的原來的判決是不非合法妥適"},{"start":563.137,"end":588.719,"text":"他這樣的話可以改判為實行只要一致決議可以改判為實行好 部長謝謝那我們後面繼續來討論這個問題謝謝部長委員的意思是說一二三審都要一致決對啊判時都要一致決那這個說法是不是在判事第8號這個解釋文上面引申為這樣的說法我認為一定會引起很多的討論的那我們再看看很多的法律專家所以這個說法並不一定是正確並不一定是照他自認這樣的說法一定會引起討論的修法還會再修吧好 謝謝"},{"start":592.503,"end":593.726,"text":"那接下來談論一下地方建設部長謝謝"},{"start":596.192,"end":622.4,"text":"我想我們也有關注我們行政院這個新任部長陳志凱部長的臉書我看到他前兩天發了一個這個reel講到說這個響應世界無車日呼籲民眾我剛剛有個截圖我有截到呼籲民眾來乘坐公共運輸那剛好他所在的位置在台北捷運的藍線那剛好我想明年的預算裡面也編列了台中捷運的藍線我想部長也出生在台中也很清楚知道"},{"start":623.3,"end":651.401,"text":"今天如果身為一個臺中市民他想要響應這個部長的呼籲響應我們院長的呼籲來響應這個世界無車日但卻只有一條捷運可以搭乘的話我想這個就很難去達到這個目標所以今天提到說我想翻到下一頁臺中市的整體捷運路網裡面先講這個捷運藍線當然預計明年要來動工但是我看目前送進來的這個院板的預算那當然現在程序委員會被退回但是目前的版本"},{"start":652.709,"end":652.849,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":677.469,"end":693.203,"text":"報告委員藍線的部分目前正在細部計畫的過程當中明年的預算的部分因為現在正在用地取得的部分用地取得本來就是地方政府會多一些所以它撥了八十幾億中央目前是只有五億"},{"start":693.843,"end":697.868,"text":"中央該補助的金額絕對會照當時我們大家討論好的那個金額下去補助 這個比例上都沒有問題"},{"start":709.48,"end":732.415,"text":"好 謝謝再來院長我要就叫一樣臺中捷運我想部長繼續留著跟這個捷運有關係剛剛上面這個張化的黃議員也有質詢過相關的議題就捷運綠線延伸線的問題我想這卡到所謂的張東都市計劃區那我想這個之前有提到說張東都市計劃區只要有審定那中期的綠線的綜合規劃就能夠抱怨來做相關的審查"},{"start":733.422,"end":733.482,"text":"黃健豪議員"},{"start":754.196,"end":775.775,"text":"是分段通車的方式來執行因為我想北段這邊基本上沒有太大問題他就是很簡單的一個2點多公里的延伸線南段因為涉及到所謂都市計劃的問題那如果都市計劃因為江東都市計劃就如同剛剛前面黃秀芳委員所說的他從議員當到委員了這次自己還沒有成案"},{"start":776.375,"end":797.356,"text":"同樣問題捷運綠線延伸從我當議員到我現在當委員也是一樣看到那個建物的預留線留在那邊但是一直沒有什麼新的進度所以本席今天要問的是說捷運綠線延伸這件事情會因為張東都是計畫而卡關嗎還是有其他的方式可以讓他部分的分階段來通車過去有沒有其他的捷運可以這樣做"},{"start":800.959,"end":818.184,"text":"跟委員報告其實這個部分因為我知道台中市這邊這一端大家希望說這個延伸北屯大坑的這一條線速度可以快一些但是因為往南往彰化那邊還有都市計畫的問題所以速度可能會緩一些慢一些"},{"start":818.824,"end":836.609,"text":"目前因為這條線的延伸正在綜合規劃的過程當中其實我們可以協助地方政府大家一起來討論一下有沒有可能分段來研究分段來研究也就是說我們大坑段的部分的綜合規劃是不是我們走快一點可不可以分段來處理這個部分我們會來協助地方政府大家一起來討論看看"},{"start":837.709,"end":837.909,"text":"臺中捷運目前虧損狀態"},{"start":854.339,"end":882.584,"text":"那我想捷運虧損從以前的臺北捷運以前的高雄捷運大家都經歷過這段時間為什麼就是因為捷運那時候就一挑的時候它一定會虧損因為沒有人流嘛那今天我們希望入網能夠形成那今天明年來講捷運藍線即將動工那台中的捷運坦白講全國第二大城它的進度的確比其他城市慢了非常多所以我想問一下我們這個行政院這邊到底對於未來我們捷運包含說局限連結到中科連結到台中車站"},{"start":883.604,"end":903.435,"text":"還有捷運有條紅線整個崇德路這一條很重要的一個紅線因為我知道紅線目前本來預計10年後才會開始評估那我們也有爭取我想交通部也支持 行政院也支持希望讓這個捷運紅線能夠提早開始規劃我想問一下這兩個案子橘線跟紅線有沒有機會加速的來趕快來執行"},{"start":906.432,"end":934.233,"text":"跟委員報告目前局限我們正在可行性評估當中那這個部分就由市政府這邊他速度加快我們這邊也會來協助這個沒有問題我希望可行性研究的部分走快一點那另外一個部分您所提到的紅線也就是臺中的崇德一直到豐原的這一段那這一段確實現在的車流量非常的大那也因為您的爭取跟地方政府的爭取我們目前針對可行性研究的部分中央已經會盡量來提供協助跟補助"},{"start":935.114,"end":954.373,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝我們交通部的再次想感謝我們院長跟交通部這個臺中捷運真的非常重要要不然其實第二大城一直沒有捷運這件事情其實是很荒謬的事情所以要拜託這個中央權力的支持因為經費上面跟文書作業上各種的審查作業我們都希望能夠減短一點可以不可以"},{"start":956.494,"end":977.888,"text":"院長我們盡量依照地方這麼強大的需求那中央在離定計畫跟地方提出各種評估之後能夠在施政上跟地方來配合當然我們願意工程早日的進行跟完工這個當然是我們的期待好 院長謝謝那接下來還是地方建設要跟院長反映一下這過去有會刊 這個部長謝謝"},{"start":980.823,"end":1004.391,"text":"這過去有會勘過啦就是我們國立自然科學博物館的設備的更新經費我講科博館這個已經成立了快要40年了比我年紀還大我也在這邊當過志工啊我講科博館是臺中的很重要的一個場館也是全國來講很重要場館在統計上面來講他是全國第2 觀光人數道館人數第2名的這個博物館但他的經費他的這個設備的確我講了這個比較可憐一點的事情"},{"start":1009.178,"end":1023.485,"text":"我高中的時候16歲17歲的時候去當他的志工我跟院長報告如果今天你來台中科普館再參訪我還可以辦導覽因為沒有什麼改變啊那種基本上一樣20年前的事情"},{"start":1024.475,"end":1053.47,"text":"那更不用講從以前到現在這個場館基本上沒有太大的更新所以這個當然相關計畫後續科目館他們應該也會報教育部也會報但是我要講的是我們今年其實有去會館有幾個比較重點的部分因為是有會議紀錄的會議紀錄沒有提到說包含說這個太空劇場太空劇場這個東西在幾十年前科目館剛落成的時候剛弄起來這個球型的所謂的這個劇場哇 那時候很先進啊"},{"start":1054.318,"end":1065.278,"text":"三十幾年前非常先進那時候還沒有IMAX那時候的科普館是非常先進的地方但是如果現在再去同樣的這個所謂太空劇場去看他的這個影像"},{"start":1066.306,"end":1076.155,"text":"這就有480P而已啊但我們現在進入4K階段了結果他的影像還是這樣子沒有更新到所以那時候我們去會刊的時候當時這個會刊記錄有講說要試113年經費結餘情形或最遲納入114年的預算來調配處理"},{"start":1084.562,"end":1084.762,"text":"黃健豪議員"},{"start":1100.678,"end":1100.818,"text":"黃健豪議員"},{"start":1130.898,"end":1157.966,"text":"怎麼辦我也同意我們包括自然科學在內日新月異的進步我們給國人或是給下一代年輕朋友應該有一個符合現代臺灣在這個學科上面應該有的一個呈現那或許是沒有提到地方基礎上的需求那如果我們進一步的來請教委員或是地方政府或是其他的地方如果在往後的年度可以把它納進去一個計畫的話那我們應該可以審慎的來評估"},{"start":1160.475,"end":1175.806,"text":"沒有啦 院長你不能往後年度啦這個是會議紀錄我再給你報告一下這個是官方會議回來不是我們服務處做的喔我們服務處做得更細但是官方提供的會議紀錄裡面已經提了理論上今年113年度有結預款就可以拿來用或是最遲"},{"start":1176.667,"end":1177.368,"text":"教育部有沒有什麼計畫?"},{"start":1192.35,"end":1211.922,"text":"跟委員報告,非常感謝委員關心科博館的所有工程,包括展示上的工程改善。確實我們在112年已經有先給科博館有一個先期的規劃會,"},{"start":1214.023,"end":1225.687,"text":"當時也有關這個污水納管的工程跟太空劇場的這些雷射投影機的一個計畫確實當時也說在今年我們在汛期過後如果這個經費上能夠有剩餘的經費我們會優先來支持"},{"start":1233.17,"end":1255.144,"text":"另外也跟委員報告科博館目前它本身這個基金的一個剩餘也有1億3000多萬所以當時我們也跟交館長說假設有急迫性你就先在現有的基金裡面先處理至於這個有關蓋新的一個大樓總共要大概我今天沒有人提蓋新大樓"},{"start":1256.244,"end":1259.345,"text":"新建大樓將近要50億我們已經先給規劃會了在去年就先給規劃會那今年在考慮在迅期之後我們也會"},{"start":1275.011,"end":1297.169,"text":"這一個有關污水跟太空機場的這一個部分的一個改善我們也同意在信息的經費節餘我們會優先來補助那如果在時間上交館長他認為應該優先處理我們也同意他這一個在現有的一個基金裡邊有還有一億三千多萬他可以優先來做處理"},{"start":1297.529,"end":1319.842,"text":"我想這個不是單一館長或單一場館的問題啦我今天會在這邊提如果今天只是一個場館問題我們就私下寫一條會就好今天特別提出來跟院長講就是因為今天這個是官方的會議紀錄有講了明確的講了要列入最遲114年教育部的預算裡面"},{"start":1321.151,"end":1333.08,"text":"結果卻沒有列入那我是說這樣的承諾這樣子會議記錄不就等於無效了嗎那如果以後都這樣子做的話那立法委員跟行政部門之間要怎麼樣互信要怎麼樣去溝通要怎麼樣去協調"},{"start":1334.52,"end":1361.208,"text":"今天是白紙黑字寫的 不是空口說白話 大家好好好基本上講一講就沒事了今天是有官方會議紀錄的東西那如果今天 剛剛你提到的這個什麼場館50億 那個東西我知道所以我也沒在這邊提 因為那是長期計畫今天是簡短的 簡單的國家預算三兆多裡面 這個攸關國家科學發展一個場館也就是兩千多萬 頂多四千萬 不同計畫裡面今天一個設備兩千多萬 拿不出來"},{"start":1361.988,"end":1385.384,"text":"議長,謝謝!"},{"start":1387.273,"end":1412.213,"text":"接下來我想下個月是國慶日我想提到國慶我想最近大家常常暑假期間很多委員都訪美我也跟院長和大院來分享在訪美之後看到一個景象就是他們真的家家戶戶很多企業也好民間也好真的四處都會輕易的見到他們美國的國旗這個場景在台灣相對來講會比較少見一點"},{"start":1413.914,"end":1434.402,"text":"好 那為什麼今天特別提出來呢我想因為 最近 一個 要國慶第二個 我想兩岸關係也緊張大家常常說 我們這個戰力要提升新戰也很重要新戰就包含說 民眾對國家的認同感所以我們希望國企除了在國慶日的時候能夠懸掛之外"},{"start":1435.502,"end":1459.796,"text":"當然相關的這個法令有要求啦這個紀念日節日實施辦法國家紀念日是要來在中央機關在機關裡面來懸掛國旗但是並沒有去鼓勵民間來懸掛國旗所以我今天特別提出來是希望說向院長提出建議是不是能夠獎勵或補助民眾在特定的節日或是什麼國旗日或國慶日等等的來購買或者你就乾脆送大家去掛國旗嘛"},{"start":1460.643,"end":1490.11,"text":"院長你覺得這有可能嗎謝謝委員雖然我認為國旗重要是掛在心中但是能夠掛在路面上過幾天你就會看到整個凱道都會有很多的國旗總統府也開始布置了每個人讓自己對愛國心的表達會有不同的方式我們都予以尊重那懸掛國旗當然也是一種就像我們在奧運的時候我們雖然看到的是我們的會旗但是唱起國旗歌大家還是非常澎湃像我也把國旗放在手錶上這個也是一種表示你也看到"},{"start":1490.99,"end":1516.083,"text":"謝謝 謝謝院長因為我想這個還是要提一下這個最近用者的名字叫做認知作戰啊認知作戰對內也很重要啊就讓民眾認知到我們是這個中華民國我們對外團結一致所以這個平常就要建立起來這也是我去這個暑假期間訪美的時候我特別看到他們國家甚至跟他們政治部聊天他們也講平常就要建立起這樣的文化"},{"start":1517.165,"end":1518.886,"text":"凡事有助於國人團結以國家為最終目標的這種團結任何的表現的形式我都認為是好的"},{"start":1538.28,"end":1548.706,"text":"不僅是尊重如果大家有好的意見我們都可以共同來討論也支持好 院長謝謝那接下來現在沒有多少時間了我延續上一次的這個質詢有提到所謂外籍勞工的問題"},{"start":1550.472,"end":1580.212,"text":"在上次7月9號的時候我們跟院長總質詢的時候也提到下半年會來討論開放所謂外籍家庭幫傭的議題那院長也提到說營造更好的帶小孩的環境讓女性能夠重新參與勞動市場絕對是對生育率有所幫助那所以本國目前是這個三名60歲以下才能申請這個家庭幫傭比較嚴下半年要來檢討那這個部長也提到下半年要來檢討那我想已經下半年了已經即將第四季啦"},{"start":1585.536,"end":1607.294,"text":"請部長跟委員說明我們之間討論的過程跟現在的想法跟委員報告 院長一直非常關心然後也一直指示我們要針對您的這個提議要來研究那麼先跟您報告我們初步先使用我們先進行我們的多元陪伴服務方案的處理現在我們已經"},{"start":1608.355,"end":1634.265,"text":"進入這個正式的把多元陪伴服務方案就是所謂的終點移工我們甚至已經把這個具體的那個時程都訂出來了大概在今年11月底我們就可以提供服務了那我們是不是先就這個方案來先做一個試辦之後呢我們會在下半年我們看這個方案進行的情況如何因為其實這個方案其實也有點類似"},{"start":1635.686,"end":1662.014,"text":"可以類似就是像家庭幫傭這樣的功能對於顧老跟顧小都可以cover而且是沒有這個服務對象的這個資格的設限的沒有很所以是不是可以允許我們把這個事辦方案我們看成效如何如果可以的話也許我們逐步來推動委員所提的建議這樣子部長謝謝因為其實這個提出來最主要就是希望"},{"start":1662.914,"end":1663.074,"text":"黃健豪議員"},{"start":1678.425,"end":1696.888,"text":"少子化是一個非常嚴肅的議題那少子化當然很多原因那其中一個最重要的就是現代的雙薪家庭的問題嘛我今天之所以提出來這個外籍幫優放寬的原因就第一個我國的這個所謂的白領的外籍這個這些這個高階白領階級他們是可以直接看薪水來決定"},{"start":1697.449,"end":1698.39,"text":"發言委員：黃健豪發言委員：黃健豪"},{"start":1723.723,"end":1736.803,"text":"他除了上班之外回來他能夠鬆開他的雙手他可以不用去背這些書榜他可以多背他的小孩甚至陪他上學等等的所以我們才希望說這個方向能夠往這方去走好不好 院長跟部長"},{"start":1738.251,"end":1740.292,"text":"最後剩下一分鐘我來跟大家討論一下我們社會主宰的問題"},{"start":1761.277,"end":1787.708,"text":"先看這個數字啊5月31號的時候目標還是12萬6869到8月31不知道為什麼只剩下12萬1938有五千會不見當然細節我們沒辦法跟討論了因為時間不夠但是這個數字我想讓院長看到一下就為什麼我們的社會住宅的這個數字降低反而降低了那另外我想今天稍早其他委員有關心社宅政策有提到所謂住宅基金的問題那當時候大家講說這個"},{"start":1791.145,"end":1816.899,"text":"社會住宅跟租金補貼彼此之間不衝突但是我們細究一下所謂住宅基金的數字在明年度的預算裡面社宅在住宅基金裡面只有38億7千萬左右大概40億到包租代管50億租金補貼350億換句話說租房這件事情包租代管加租金補貼就佔了400億那你社宅只花了38億"},{"start":1818.496,"end":1818.956,"text":"謝謝黃健豪委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長的備詢"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-1","title":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-24T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"16:31:31 - 17:02:13","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢）","id":154885}