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\"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 716.81, \"end\": 716.83, \"score\": 0.911}]}, {\"start\": 718.018, \"end\": 741.79, \"text\": \"你還扣掉我的牌照那那個假車牌被扣掉意義在哪裡呢他還是可以去買個假車牌放上去啊所以這個邏輯問題就是說第一個你罰則已經比假車牌便宜了然後你又扣他的車牌那他去買一張不就好了嗎他買一張假的車牌放上去他繼續開在路上所以在罰則部分現有的條例裡面我認為你們有機會試用我們看下一頁\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 718.018, \"end\": 718.198, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 718.198, \"end\": 718.378, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 718.378, \"end\": 718.478, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 718.478, \"end\": 718.518, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 718.518, \"end\": 718.638, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"牌\", \"start\": 718.638, \"end\": 718.838, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 718.838, \"end\": 719.719, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 719.719, \"end\": 719.859, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 719.859, \"end\": 720.119, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": 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739.889, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 739.889, \"end\": 740.089, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 740.089, \"end\": 740.729, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 740.729, \"end\": 741.35, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 741.35, \"end\": 741.47, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 741.47, \"end\": 741.59, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 741.59, \"end\": 741.77, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 741.77, \"end\": 741.79, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"頁\"}]}, {\"start\": 743.735, \"end\": 751.774, \"text\": \"在相關的法律裡面他本來就應該要取得相關的合格證明那如果沒有的話第一個車輛應該理論上依法是可以沒入的吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 743.735, \"end\": 743.855, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 743.855, \"end\": 744.176, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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{\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 781.433, \"end\": 781.853, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 781.853, \"end\": 781.994, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 781.994, \"end\": 782.074, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 782.074, \"end\": 782.114, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 782.114, \"end\": 782.254, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 782.254, \"end\": 782.494, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 782.494, \"end\": 782.514, \"score\": 0.045}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 782.956, \"end\": 783.217, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 783.217, \"end\": 783.237, \"score\": 0.109}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,322 --> 00:00:01,645\n好謝謝主席我們一樣先請陳部長陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,547 --> 00:00:35,914\n好部長委員好部長辛苦了1點40分我想說你應該還沒用午餐但是我想這個年輕人年輕力壯應該撐得住啦OK沒問題謝謝所以部長我是第一次在這個交通委員會正式的業務質詢那我想這個部長跟我也是老交情的但是我們第一次面對面的來做這個質詢的工作我想今天心情此刻的心情跟上午應該還是有點不一樣了啦應該已經慢慢習慣了這個節奏\n\n3\n00:00:37,995 --> 00:00:56,630\n那部長這兩天來拜會的時候我也跟部長提一個期許我想今年交通委員會一年換三個部長那我們期待我們陳世凱部長未來三年同一個部長就好了我們的交通政策希望能夠延續下去那就來進行我的主題我想這個最近大家這禮拜關心到我們台中的這個公車問題\n\n4\n00:00:57,771 --> 00:01:19,257\n那有一個女大生過馬路招公車撞起這個不幸的這個事故我想最主要的問題當然大家還是回到這個行人地獄的問題我們從這個街景圖可以看到以目前這個現狀台中車站旁邊的道路也是台灣多數道路的形態這個部長你覺得這個道路看起來你第一個直覺是什麼直覺啊對\n\n5\n00:01:25,157 --> 00:01:42,346\n沒關係你就頂加你的直覺就好我們看我們看我們的這個意見沒有一致沒有一致我可以跟你講我分享我的直覺是什麼我的感覺他蠻寬敞的什麼寬敞其實不寬啊中山路我熟他其實不寬但照片看起來是寬敞的照片看起來人行道的設置是有的\n\n6\n00:01:44,315 --> 00:02:03,629\n這都看起來就是道路明顯的比這個人行道寬敞很多啦你也看到你剛才提到說的確中山路本身想像中路幅不寬但是也看到旁邊有一輛微停的計程車它是停在路側端但旁邊路側端這邊這一條路其實它還要很寬的路可以通過\n\n7\n00:02:04,409 --> 00:02:25,345\n是所以回到什麼問題就回到說今天到底就像剛剛牛委員講的一樣今天你這個部長新上任之後要跟過去的部長有什麼不一樣我們現在都提到說希望台灣的交通的部會這個交通的這個想法能夠從車本的交通轉換成人本交通我想今天這個道路很明顯的就在告訴部長說\n\n8\n00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:42,820\n雖然中山路已經不寬但他居然旁邊危停的計程車停在那裡他的路還過得去就表示這個道路設計是有問題他不是為了行人設計他是為了讓大家方便停車啊有人行道但不夠寬我們看下一張齁部長\n\n9\n00:02:44,302 --> 00:03:11,085\n當然是這個民間團體這個我從這個標線改造台灣路的這個臉書專頁上面拿下來這個圖我想這兩年這幾年下來很多人本交通的團體提供了交通部也提供民意代表很多的想法跟意見希望說能夠讓台灣的這個道路能夠走向這個人本交通的這個問題因為其實大家都知道說最嚴重的大家常常講說因為這個國外跟台灣的民情不同但是我們放諸四海\n\n10\n00:03:11,986 --> 00:03:36,286\n全世界各國不然是荷蘭也好、日本也好、其他國家我們現在看到的好像這個人行道、人行、日本交通做得比較好的國家他們當年道路也是比較寬的慢慢的透過政府的溝通、社會的溝通慢慢的做到今天的樣子那我想問一下部長你對於這樣子的溝通工作你做好準備嗎?就像其實我剛剛跟女委員的問題有點類似因為我們都當過地方民意代表\n\n11\n00:03:37,206 --> 00:04:06,866\n今天交通部的各位官員你們很專業也願意出很多錢我們出了幾百億希望去改善各地方的交通但是落到地方之後會遇到什麼障礙部長你看清楚吧這個我相當清楚其實行人路權的這個觀念其實在北部相對是比較簡單的你要限縮道路然後讓人行道能夠寬闊一點是比較容易的但坦白說在我們中部或者是在南部要做這方面的溝通其實我覺得在社會上的溝通要更加努力\n\n12\n00:04:06,926 --> 00:04:08,907\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就«雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫》\n\n13\n00:04:24,355 --> 00:04:39,875\n坦白說是這樣子但現在可以嗎?現在都不行了現在當然不行但是現在我們現在做人行道我坦白講最近的確感謝交通部也感謝內政部撥了很多款項到地方要來做人行道會議看的時候對啊里長就跳出來講啦我沒地方停車\n\n14\n00:04:40,856 --> 00:05:01,976\n我道路不夠寬我有商店我有零停的問題所以這個問題我想問一下我們新的這個陳世凱部長你未來要怎麼樣來做社會溝通要怎麼樣去推動你除了把錢不下去把責任交給地方政府去執行之外那交通部作為全國這個預算最多最大的部會我們要怎麼樣去改變要怎麼樣去推動人本交通\n\n15\n00:05:02,677 --> 00:05:20,243\n我覺得這個觀念除了宣導跟教育之外很重要的是政府要有決心交通部的部分有決心要這麼做不過坦白說因為委員您也是從地方的民意代表上來的您也很清楚有時候地方政府\n\n16\n00:05:20,683 --> 00:05:24,785\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n\n17\n00:05:44,616 --> 00:05:55,548\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n\n18\n00:06:06,579 --> 00:06:31,294\n我想每年政府編列了非常多的這個宣傳預算那大家在野黨我們身為在野黨也常詬病說你們到底把錢花到哪裡去我想這就是一個部分就是說今天既然你要推動人本交通既然今天你希望能夠讓大眾去接受這樣的觀念那你們的這個所謂的行銷政策的預算就應該去做這件事情就像我講當年大安全貿多少人在罵但是又不推成了嗎\n\n19\n00:06:32,214 --> 00:06:34,915\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n\n20\n00:06:53,100 --> 00:07:11,149\n再來看到這個全國各縣市路口改善計畫我想這個也是盤點的過程裡面不管是民間通報數還是這個交通部通報數的確全台灣各處都非常的多但是其實以這一次我們講遺憾一點就這一次這個公車車禍的路口它其實並不在這個全國路口改善的這個範圍裡面\n\n21\n00:07:13,010 --> 00:07:27,558\n所以換句話說到底這個盤點的過程是不是有更客觀的數據跟標準可以去盤點這個數據因為你今天不管是民間提報的因為這個包含說透過這個民眾通報路口改善有637那交通部自己通報的是799這些數量\n\n22\n00:07:30,441 --> 00:07:52,052\n他怎麼而來?報告委員一方面是行人的這個傷亡的數字這個如果是高的地方當然就是我們優先要改善的地方那另外一個部分就是地方政府由他們來提報因為實際上地方的交通的路口哪裡比較危險需要急速的改善應該是地方政府會比中央政府更清楚所以有一大部分的數據是地方政府提報上來的\n\n23\n00:07:53,112 --> 00:08:11,575\n那有沒有更客觀的除了死亡人數之外我是希望說今天我今天在這邊質詢就是因為過去都是用這個邏輯在做事情就是啊這類似地方裝紅綠燈一樣啦你要先有A級車或我才能裝紅綠燈這很多地方政府這樣幹今天但我們要做的是今天交通部如果要盡量推動所謂人門交通要推動路口改善計畫\n\n24\n00:08:12,276 --> 00:08:32,319\n你除了看死亡人數之外有沒有預判預防的機制什麼樣的路口它應該被提報什麼樣的路口你應該編譯算改善不然每年真的我是說真的這兩年的確花了很多錢幾百億再去改善所謂的這個人行道路口改善但是其實說真的這個車禍死亡人數層數不窮啊死亡人數現在是上漲的是\n\n25\n00:08:32,959 --> 00:08:51,269\n因為行人事故他比去年同期他還是增加的所以這個數字我讓部長當作一個警惕我們希望明年看到數的時候他一定要下降大家要一起努力沒有錯這很重要那再來一樣這個公車交通事故當然這是大家的焦點放在台中但是我們去看數據其實認真調閱數據是一個很驚人的數字111年因為公車這種貨大貨車的大客車\n\n26\n00:08:57,572 --> 00:09:11,614\n不只是公營民營的這個交通則是公車死亡人數110.40去年43今年目前是13所以公車這個事情不是只有地方政府個別個別的去罵交通局長或去交通局長去裁罰公車業者\n\n27\n00:09:12,930 --> 00:09:29,791\n今天猜到這個數據我想交通部這個數據是你們統計出來的全國的數據那就表示我們公車可能業者也好或司機也好或是整個交通的這個問題也好它有系統性的問題它每年有這麼多人因為公車喔這是公車而已喔沒有算其他的什麼大卡車都沒有就是公車而已\n\n28\n00:09:30,851 --> 00:09:50,851\n一年有這麼多人因為公車而死亡所以不知道部長對這件事情有沒有什麼樣的想法你沒有提改善計畫嗎還是說就是各地方政府繼續各行其事臺北有臺北做法臺中有臺中做法高雄高雄做法那交通部做法是什麼報告委員目前齁我剛剛在幾位委員的詢問當中我都有回答就是說對於停等的這個強制性對於\n\n29\n00:09:52,192 --> 00:10:09,121\n大型的客車或者大型的貨車我們都有要求而且是強制的啦如果沒有做到一定會有罰則那個停等是左轉跟右轉的時候必須停等這是第一個第二個車上的一些預警系統其實我們也都一定的規範包含說這個盲點的這個影像的部分\n\n30\n00:10:09,741 --> 00:10:27,450\n每一台都有裝了每一台都有裝了那ADAS的部分目前裝的比例也非常的高所以這些設施的增加包含說停等的要求尤其是公車的部分我們要求他在停等的過程當中還要指叉確認也就是左邊看完右邊看右邊看完再往前看這些工作都有要求\n\n31\n00:10:27,890 --> 00:10:42,474\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n\n32\n00:10:57,638 --> 00:11:15,669\n統計出來的結果能夠真的少一點我希望是這樣那再來最後一題最後一題稍微再給我一點時間有一個很嚴重的時事這個假車牌今年特別氾濫2022年939件2023年924件到今年到5月就已經837了我想今年可能破千\n\n33\n00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:40,256\n那這個假車牌當然有些網路論壇有提到說可能是因為所謂嚴重超速的這個規範變嚴之後很多的車牌他因為超速嘛所以被扣了所以他就去用偽造車牌那原因怎麼發生呢我先不細究今天時間不夠我們要談的是罰則的部分罰則的部分以現在來講是罰3600到18000部長你可以上網上蝦皮看一下假車牌多少錢啊是\n\n34\n00:11:41,021 --> 00:11:56,830\n你罰的前夕跟假車牌比假車牌便宜啊我講真的所以他根本罰的不痛不癢那我們看到目前的交通道交條例、處罰條例裡面看下一頁除了罰錢之外還有一個是可以牌照、扣腳我就已經有假車牌了\n\n35\n00:11:58,018 --> 00:12:21,790\n你還扣掉我的牌照那那個假車牌被扣掉意義在哪裡呢他還是可以去買個假車牌放上去啊所以這個邏輯問題就是說第一個你罰則已經比假車牌便宜了然後你又扣他的車牌那他去買一張不就好了嗎他買一張假的車牌放上去他繼續開在路上所以在罰則部分現有的條例裡面我認為你們有機會試用我們看下一頁\n\n36\n00:12:23,735 --> 00:12:31,774\n在相關的法律裡面他本來就應該要取得相關的合格證明那如果沒有的話第一個車輛應該理論上依法是可以沒入的吧\n\n37\n00:12:32,694 --> 00:13:02,514\n所以我希望說在假車牌這個問題上除了罰錢跟所謂你再扣繳息是沒有意義的之外對於車輛這個財產本身交通部有沒有機會去做執行所謂車輛摸輪行為部長這個部分可能條件上會比較嚴格但是委員您剛剛所提到的增加罰則的部分我們來研究然後通過立法院的同意我們大概就可以增加罰則是第一個第二個其實它是有刑責的用假車牌其實是有刑罰的部分那這個部分我們也可以來做討論那我們也可以來建議說看要不要修正\n\n38\n00:13:02,956 --> 00:13:03,237\n好,部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n322\t1645\t好 謝謝主席 我們一樣先請陳部長陳部長\n13547\t35914\t好部長委員好部長辛苦了1點40分我想說你應該還沒用午餐但是我想這個年輕人年輕力壯應該撐得住啦OK沒問題謝謝所以部長我是第一次在這個交通委員會正式的業務質詢那我想這個部長跟我也是老交情的但是我們第一次面對面的來做這個質詢的工作我想今天心情此刻的心情跟上午應該還是有點不一樣了啦應該已經慢慢習慣了這個節奏\n37995\t56630\t那部長這兩天來拜會的時候我也跟部長提一個期許我想今年交通委員會一年換三個部長那我們期待我們陳世凱部長未來三年同一個部長就好了我們的交通政策希望能夠延續下去那就來進行我的主題我想這個最近大家這禮拜關心到我們台中的這個公車問題\n57771\t79257\t那有一個女大生過馬路招公車撞起這個不幸的這個事故我想最主要的問題當然大家還是回到這個行人地獄的問題我們從這個街景圖可以看到以目前這個現狀台中車站旁邊的道路也是台灣多數道路的形態這個部長你覺得這個道路看起來你第一個直覺是什麼直覺啊對\n85157\t102346\t沒關係你就頂加你的直覺就好我們看我們看我們的這個意見沒有一致沒有一致我可以跟你講我分享我的直覺是什麼我的感覺他蠻寬敞的什麼寬敞其實不寬啊中山路我熟他其實不寬但照片看起來是寬敞的照片看起來人行道的設置是有的\n104315\t123629\t這都看起來就是道路明顯的比這個人行道寬敞很多啦你也看到你剛才提到說的確中山路本身想像中路幅不寬但是也看到旁邊有一輛微停的計程車它是停在路側端但旁邊路側端這邊這一條路其實它還要很寬的路可以通過\n124409\t145345\t是所以回到什麼問題就回到說今天到底就像剛剛牛委員講的一樣今天你這個部長新上任之後要跟過去的部長有什麼不一樣我們現在都提到說希望台灣的交通的部會這個交通的這個想法能夠從車本的交通轉換成人本交通我想今天這個道路很明顯的就在告訴部長說\n147100\t162820\t雖然中山路已經不寬但他居然旁邊危停的計程車停在那裡他的路還過得去就表示這個道路設計是有問題他不是為了行人設計他是為了讓大家方便停車啊有人行道但不夠寬我們看下一張齁部長\n164302\t191085\t當然是這個民間團體這個我從這個標線改造台灣路的這個臉書專頁上面拿下來這個圖我想這兩年這幾年下來很多人本交通的團體提供了交通部也提供民意代表很多的想法跟意見希望說能夠讓台灣的這個道路能夠走向這個人本交通的這個問題因為其實大家都知道說最嚴重的大家常常講說因為這個國外跟台灣的民情不同但是我們放諸四海\n191986\t216286\t全世界各國不然是荷蘭也好、日本也好、其他國家我們現在看到的好像這個人行道、人行、日本交通做得比較好的國家他們當年道路也是比較寬的慢慢的透過政府的溝通、社會的溝通慢慢的做到今天的樣子那我想問一下部長你對於這樣子的溝通工作你做好準備嗎?就像其實我剛剛跟女委員的問題有點類似因為我們都當過地方民意代表\n217206\t246866\t今天交通部的各位官員你們很專業也願意出很多錢我們出了幾百億希望去改善各地方的交通但是落到地方之後會遇到什麼障礙部長你看清楚吧這個我相當清楚其實行人路權的這個觀念其實在北部相對是比較簡單的你要限縮道路然後讓人行道能夠寬闊一點是比較容易的但坦白說在我們中部或者是在南部要做這方面的溝通其實我覺得在社會上的溝通要更加努力\n246926\t248907\t二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就 «雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫》\n264355\t279875\t坦白說是這樣子但現在可以嗎?現在都不行了現在當然不行但是現在我們現在做人行道我坦白講最近的確感謝交通部也感謝內政部撥了很多款項到地方要來做人行道會議看的時候對啊里長就跳出來講啦我沒地方停車\n280856\t301976\t我道路不夠寬我有商店我有零停的問題所以這個問題我想問一下我們新的這個陳世凱部長你未來要怎麼樣來做社會溝通要怎麼樣去推動你除了把錢不下去把責任交給地方政府去執行之外那交通部作為全國這個預算最多最大的部會我們要怎麼樣去改變要怎麼樣去推動人本交通\n302677\t320243\t我覺得這個觀念除了宣導跟教育之外很重要的是政府要有決心交通部的部分有決心要這麼做不過坦白說因為委員您也是從地方的民意代表上來的您也很清楚有時候地方政府\n320683\t324785\t二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n344616\t355548\t二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n366579\t391294\t我想每年政府編列了非常多的這個宣傳預算那大家在野黨我們身為在野黨也常詬病說你們到底把錢花到哪裡去我想這就是一個部分就是說今天既然你要推動人本交通既然今天你希望能夠讓大眾去接受這樣的觀念那你們的這個所謂的行銷政策的預算就應該去做這件事情就像我講當年大安全貿多少人在罵但是又不推成了嗎\n392214\t394915\t二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n413100\t431149\t再來看到這個全國各縣市路口改善計畫我想這個也是盤點的過程裡面不管是民間通報數還是這個交通部通報數的確全台灣各處都非常的多但是其實以這一次我們講遺憾一點就這一次這個公車車禍的路口它其實並不在這個全國路口改善的這個範圍裡面\n433010\t447558\t所以換句話說到底這個盤點的過程是不是有更客觀的數據跟標準可以去盤點這個數據因為你今天不管是民間提報的因為這個包含說透過這個民眾通報路口改善有637那交通部自己通報的是799這些數量\n450441\t472052\t他怎麼而來?報告委員一方面是行人的這個傷亡的數字這個如果是高的地方當然就是我們優先要改善的地方那另外一個部分就是地方政府由他們來提報因為實際上地方的交通的路口哪裡比較危險需要急速的改善應該是地方政府會比中央政府更清楚所以有一大部分的數據是地方政府提報上來的\n473112\t491575\t那有沒有更客觀的除了死亡人數之外我是希望說今天我今天在這邊質詢就是因為過去都是用這個邏輯在做事情就是啊這類似地方裝紅綠燈一樣啦你要先有A級車或我才能裝紅綠燈這很多地方政府這樣幹今天但我們要做的是今天交通部如果要盡量推動所謂人門交通要推動路口改善計畫\n492276\t512319\t你除了看死亡人數之外有沒有預判預防的機制什麼樣的路口它應該被提報什麼樣的路口你應該編譯算改善不然每年真的我是說真的這兩年的確花了很多錢幾百億再去改善所謂的這個人行道路口改善但是其實說真的這個車禍死亡人數層數不窮啊死亡人數現在是上漲的是\n512959\t531269\t因為行人事故他比去年同期他還是增加的所以這個數字我讓部長當作一個警惕我們希望明年看到數的時候他一定要下降大家要一起努力沒有錯這很重要那再來一樣這個公車交通事故當然這是大家的焦點放在台中但是我們去看數據其實認真調閱數據是一個很驚人的數字111年因為公車這種貨大貨車的大客車\n537572\t551614\t不只是公營民營的這個交通則是公車死亡人數110.40去年43今年目前是13所以公車這個事情不是只有地方政府個別個別的去罵交通局長或去交通局長去裁罰公車業者\n552930\t569791\t今天猜到這個數據我想交通部這個數據是你們統計出來的全國的數據那就表示我們公車可能業者也好或司機也好或是整個交通的這個問題也好它有系統性的問題它每年有這麼多人因為公車喔這是公車而已喔沒有算其他的什麼大卡車都沒有就是公車而已\n570851\t590851\t一年有這麼多人因為公車而死亡所以不知道部長對這件事情有沒有什麼樣的想法你沒有提改善計畫嗎還是說就是各地方政府繼續各行其事臺北有臺北做法臺中有臺中做法高雄高雄做法那交通部做法是什麼報告委員目前齁我剛剛在幾位委員的詢問當中我都有回答就是說對於停等的這個強制性對於\n592192\t609121\t大型的客車或者大型的貨車我們都有要求而且是強制的啦如果沒有做到一定會有罰則那個停等是左轉跟右轉的時候必須停等這是第一個第二個車上的一些預警系統其實我們也都一定的規範包含說這個盲點的這個影像的部分\n609741\t627450\t每一台都有裝了每一台都有裝了那ADAS的部分目前裝的比例也非常的高所以這些設施的增加包含說停等的要求尤其是公車的部分我們要求他在停等的過程當中還要指叉確認也就是左邊看完右邊看右邊看完再往前看這些工作都有要求\n627890\t642474\t二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n657638\t675669\t統計出來的結果能夠真的少一點我希望是這樣那再來最後一題最後一題稍微再給我一點時間有一個很嚴重的時事這個假車牌今年特別氾濫2022年939件2023年924件到今年到5月就已經837了我想今年可能破千\n676610\t700256\t那這個假車牌當然有些網路論壇有提到說可能是因為所謂嚴重超速的這個規範變嚴之後很多的車牌他因為超速嘛所以被扣了所以他就去用偽造車牌那原因怎麼發生呢我先不細究今天時間不夠我們要談的是罰則的部分罰則的部分以現在來講是罰3600到18000部長你可以上網上蝦皮看一下假車牌多少錢啊是\n701021\t716830\t你罰的前夕跟假車牌比假車牌便宜啊我講真的所以他根本罰的不痛不癢那我們看到目前的交通道交條例、處罰條例裡面看下一頁除了罰錢之外還有一個是可以牌照、扣腳我就已經有假車牌了\n718018\t741790\t你還扣掉我的牌照那那個假車牌被扣掉意義在哪裡呢他還是可以去買個假車牌放上去啊所以這個邏輯問題就是說第一個你罰則已經比假車牌便宜了然後你又扣他的車牌那他去買一張不就好了嗎他買一張假的車牌放上去他繼續開在路上所以在罰則部分現有的條例裡面我認為你們有機會試用我們看下一頁\n743735\t751774\t在相關的法律裡面他本來就應該要取得相關的合格證明那如果沒有的話第一個車輛應該理論上依法是可以沒入的吧\n752694\t782514\t所以我希望說在假車牌這個問題上除了罰錢跟所謂你再扣繳息是沒有意義的之外對於車輛這個財產本身交通部有沒有機會去做執行所謂車輛摸輪行為部長這個部分可能條件上會比較嚴格但是委員您剛剛所提到的增加罰則的部分我們來研究然後通過立法院的同意我們大概就可以增加罰則是第一個第二個其實它是有刑責的用假車牌其實是有刑罰的部分那這個部分我們也可以來做討論那我們也可以來建議說看要不要修正\n782956\t783237\t好,部長謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們一樣先請陳部長陳部長\n好部長委員好部長辛苦了1點40分我想說你應該還沒用午餐但是我想這個年輕人年輕力壯應該撐得住啦OK沒問題謝謝所以部長我是第一次在這個交通委員會正式的業務質詢那我想這個部長跟我也是老交情的但是我們第一次面對面的來做這個質詢的工作我想今天心情此刻的心情跟上午應該還是有點不一樣了啦應該已經慢慢習慣了這個節奏\n那部長這兩天來拜會的時候我也跟部長提一個期許我想今年交通委員會一年換三個部長那我們期待我們陳世凱部長未來三年同一個部長就好了我們的交通政策希望能夠延續下去那就來進行我的主題我想這個最近大家這禮拜關心到我們台中的這個公車問題\n那有一個女大生過馬路招公車撞起這個不幸的這個事故我想最主要的問題當然大家還是回到這個行人地獄的問題我們從這個街景圖可以看到以目前這個現狀台中車站旁邊的道路也是台灣多數道路的形態這個部長你覺得這個道路看起來你第一個直覺是什麼直覺啊對\n沒關係你就頂加你的直覺就好我們看我們看我們的這個意見沒有一致沒有一致我可以跟你講我分享我的直覺是什麼我的感覺他蠻寬敞的什麼寬敞其實不寬啊中山路我熟他其實不寬但照片看起來是寬敞的照片看起來人行道的設置是有的\n這都看起來就是道路明顯的比這個人行道寬敞很多啦你也看到你剛才提到說的確中山路本身想像中路幅不寬但是也看到旁邊有一輛微停的計程車它是停在路側端但旁邊路側端這邊這一條路其實它還要很寬的路可以通過\n是所以回到什麼問題就回到說今天到底就像剛剛牛委員講的一樣今天你這個部長新上任之後要跟過去的部長有什麼不一樣我們現在都提到說希望台灣的交通的部會這個交通的這個想法能夠從車本的交通轉換成人本交通我想今天這個道路很明顯的就在告訴部長說\n雖然中山路已經不寬但他居然旁邊危停的計程車停在那裡他的路還過得去就表示這個道路設計是有問題他不是為了行人設計他是為了讓大家方便停車啊有人行道但不夠寬我們看下一張齁部長\n當然是這個民間團體這個我從這個標線改造台灣路的這個臉書專頁上面拿下來這個圖我想這兩年這幾年下來很多人本交通的團體提供了交通部也提供民意代表很多的想法跟意見希望說能夠讓台灣的這個道路能夠走向這個人本交通的這個問題因為其實大家都知道說最嚴重的大家常常講說因為這個國外跟台灣的民情不同但是我們放諸四海\n全世界各國不然是荷蘭也好、日本也好、其他國家我們現在看到的好像這個人行道、人行、日本交通做得比較好的國家他們當年道路也是比較寬的慢慢的透過政府的溝通、社會的溝通慢慢的做到今天的樣子那我想問一下部長你對於這樣子的溝通工作你做好準備嗎?就像其實我剛剛跟女委員的問題有點類似因為我們都當過地方民意代表\n今天交通部的各位官員你們很專業也願意出很多錢我們出了幾百億希望去改善各地方的交通但是落到地方之後會遇到什麼障礙部長你看清楚吧這個我相當清楚其實行人路權的這個觀念其實在北部相對是比較簡單的你要限縮道路然後讓人行道能夠寬闊一點是比較容易的但坦白說在我們中部或者是在南部要做這方面的溝通其實我覺得在社會上的溝通要更加努力\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就 «雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫》\n坦白說是這樣子但現在可以嗎?現在都不行了現在當然不行但是現在我們現在做人行道我坦白講最近的確感謝交通部也感謝內政部撥了很多款項到地方要來做人行道會議看的時候對啊里長就跳出來講啦我沒地方停車\n我道路不夠寬我有商店我有零停的問題所以這個問題我想問一下我們新的這個陳世凱部長你未來要怎麼樣來做社會溝通要怎麼樣去推動你除了把錢不下去把責任交給地方政府去執行之外那交通部作為全國這個預算最多最大的部會我們要怎麼樣去改變要怎麼樣去推動人本交通\n我覺得這個觀念除了宣導跟教育之外很重要的是政府要有決心交通部的部分有決心要這麼做不過坦白說因為委員您也是從地方的民意代表上來的您也很清楚有時候地方政府\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n我想每年政府編列了非常多的這個宣傳預算那大家在野黨我們身為在野黨也常詬病說你們到底把錢花到哪裡去我想這就是一個部分就是說今天既然你要推動人本交通既然今天你希望能夠讓大眾去接受這樣的觀念那你們的這個所謂的行銷政策的預算就應該去做這件事情就像我講當年大安全貿多少人在罵但是又不推成了嗎\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n再來看到這個全國各縣市路口改善計畫我想這個也是盤點的過程裡面不管是民間通報數還是這個交通部通報數的確全台灣各處都非常的多但是其實以這一次我們講遺憾一點就這一次這個公車車禍的路口它其實並不在這個全國路口改善的這個範圍裡面\n所以換句話說到底這個盤點的過程是不是有更客觀的數據跟標準可以去盤點這個數據因為你今天不管是民間提報的因為這個包含說透過這個民眾通報路口改善有637那交通部自己通報的是799這些數量\n他怎麼而來?報告委員一方面是行人的這個傷亡的數字這個如果是高的地方當然就是我們優先要改善的地方那另外一個部分就是地方政府由他們來提報因為實際上地方的交通的路口哪裡比較危險需要急速的改善應該是地方政府會比中央政府更清楚所以有一大部分的數據是地方政府提報上來的\n那有沒有更客觀的除了死亡人數之外我是希望說今天我今天在這邊質詢就是因為過去都是用這個邏輯在做事情就是啊這類似地方裝紅綠燈一樣啦你要先有A級車或我才能裝紅綠燈這很多地方政府這樣幹今天但我們要做的是今天交通部如果要盡量推動所謂人門交通要推動路口改善計畫\n你除了看死亡人數之外有沒有預判預防的機制什麼樣的路口它應該被提報什麼樣的路口你應該編譯算改善不然每年真的我是說真的這兩年的確花了很多錢幾百億再去改善所謂的這個人行道路口改善但是其實說真的這個車禍死亡人數層數不窮啊死亡人數現在是上漲的是\n因為行人事故他比去年同期他還是增加的所以這個數字我讓部長當作一個警惕我們希望明年看到數的時候他一定要下降大家要一起努力沒有錯這很重要那再來一樣這個公車交通事故當然這是大家的焦點放在台中但是我們去看數據其實認真調閱數據是一個很驚人的數字111年因為公車這種貨大貨車的大客車\n不只是公營民營的這個交通則是公車死亡人數110.40去年43今年目前是13所以公車這個事情不是只有地方政府個別個別的去罵交通局長或去交通局長去裁罰公車業者\n今天猜到這個數據我想交通部這個數據是你們統計出來的全國的數據那就表示我們公車可能業者也好或司機也好或是整個交通的這個問題也好它有系統性的問題它每年有這麼多人因為公車喔這是公車而已喔沒有算其他的什麼大卡車都沒有就是公車而已\n一年有這麼多人因為公車而死亡所以不知道部長對這件事情有沒有什麼樣的想法你沒有提改善計畫嗎還是說就是各地方政府繼續各行其事臺北有臺北做法臺中有臺中做法高雄高雄做法那交通部做法是什麼報告委員目前齁我剛剛在幾位委員的詢問當中我都有回答就是說對於停等的這個強制性對於\n大型的客車或者大型的貨車我們都有要求而且是強制的啦如果沒有做到一定會有罰則那個停等是左轉跟右轉的時候必須停等這是第一個第二個車上的一些預警系統其實我們也都一定的規範包含說這個盲點的這個影像的部分\n每一台都有裝了每一台都有裝了那ADAS的部分目前裝的比例也非常的高所以這些設施的增加包含說停等的要求尤其是公車的部分我們要求他在停等的過程當中還要指叉確認也就是左邊看完右邊看右邊看完再往前看這些工作都有要求\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n統計出來的結果能夠真的少一點我希望是這樣那再來最後一題最後一題稍微再給我一點時間有一個很嚴重的時事這個假車牌今年特別氾濫2022年939件2023年924件到今年到5月就已經837了我想今年可能破千\n那這個假車牌當然有些網路論壇有提到說可能是因為所謂嚴重超速的這個規範變嚴之後很多的車牌他因為超速嘛所以被扣了所以他就去用偽造車牌那原因怎麼發生呢我先不細究今天時間不夠我們要談的是罰則的部分罰則的部分以現在來講是罰3600到18000部長你可以上網上蝦皮看一下假車牌多少錢啊是\n你罰的前夕跟假車牌比假車牌便宜啊我講真的所以他根本罰的不痛不癢那我們看到目前的交通道交條例、處罰條例裡面看下一頁除了罰錢之外還有一個是可以牌照、扣腳我就已經有假車牌了\n你還扣掉我的牌照那那個假車牌被扣掉意義在哪裡呢他還是可以去買個假車牌放上去啊所以這個邏輯問題就是說第一個你罰則已經比假車牌便宜了然後你又扣他的車牌那他去買一張不就好了嗎他買一張假的車牌放上去他繼續開在路上所以在罰則部分現有的條例裡面我認為你們有機會試用我們看下一頁\n在相關的法律裡面他本來就應該要取得相關的合格證明那如果沒有的話第一個車輛應該理論上依法是可以沒入的吧\n所以我希望說在假車牌這個問題上除了罰錢跟所謂你再扣繳息是沒有意義的之外對於車輛這個財產本身交通部有沒有機會去做執行所謂車輛摸輪行為部長這個部分可能條件上會比較嚴格但是委員您剛剛所提到的增加罰則的部分我們來研究然後通過立法院的同意我們大概就可以增加罰則是第一個第二個其實它是有刑責的用假車牌其實是有刑罰的部分那這個部分我們也可以來做討論那我們也可以來建議說看要不要修正\n好,部長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.322 --> 00:01.645\n好謝謝主席我們一樣先請陳部長陳部長\n\n00:13.547 --> 00:35.914\n好部長委員好部長辛苦了1點40分我想說你應該還沒用午餐但是我想這個年輕人年輕力壯應該撐得住啦OK沒問題謝謝所以部長我是第一次在這個交通委員會正式的業務質詢那我想這個部長跟我也是老交情的但是我們第一次面對面的來做這個質詢的工作我想今天心情此刻的心情跟上午應該還是有點不一樣了啦應該已經慢慢習慣了這個節奏\n\n00:37.995 --> 00:56.630\n那部長這兩天來拜會的時候我也跟部長提一個期許我想今年交通委員會一年換三個部長那我們期待我們陳世凱部長未來三年同一個部長就好了我們的交通政策希望能夠延續下去那就來進行我的主題我想這個最近大家這禮拜關心到我們台中的這個公車問題\n\n00:57.771 --> 01:19.257\n那有一個女大生過馬路招公車撞起這個不幸的這個事故我想最主要的問題當然大家還是回到這個行人地獄的問題我們從這個街景圖可以看到以目前這個現狀台中車站旁邊的道路也是台灣多數道路的形態這個部長你覺得這個道路看起來你第一個直覺是什麼直覺啊對\n\n01:25.157 --> 01:42.346\n沒關係你就頂加你的直覺就好我們看我們看我們的這個意見沒有一致沒有一致我可以跟你講我分享我的直覺是什麼我的感覺他蠻寬敞的什麼寬敞其實不寬啊中山路我熟他其實不寬但照片看起來是寬敞的照片看起來人行道的設置是有的\n\n01:44.315 --> 02:03.629\n這都看起來就是道路明顯的比這個人行道寬敞很多啦你也看到你剛才提到說的確中山路本身想像中路幅不寬但是也看到旁邊有一輛微停的計程車它是停在路側端但旁邊路側端這邊這一條路其實它還要很寬的路可以通過\n\n02:04.409 --> 02:25.345\n是所以回到什麼問題就回到說今天到底就像剛剛牛委員講的一樣今天你這個部長新上任之後要跟過去的部長有什麼不一樣我們現在都提到說希望台灣的交通的部會這個交通的這個想法能夠從車本的交通轉換成人本交通我想今天這個道路很明顯的就在告訴部長說\n\n02:27.100 --> 02:42.820\n雖然中山路已經不寬但他居然旁邊危停的計程車停在那裡他的路還過得去就表示這個道路設計是有問題他不是為了行人設計他是為了讓大家方便停車啊有人行道但不夠寬我們看下一張齁部長\n\n02:44.302 --> 03:11.085\n當然是這個民間團體這個我從這個標線改造台灣路的這個臉書專頁上面拿下來這個圖我想這兩年這幾年下來很多人本交通的團體提供了交通部也提供民意代表很多的想法跟意見希望說能夠讓台灣的這個道路能夠走向這個人本交通的這個問題因為其實大家都知道說最嚴重的大家常常講說因為這個國外跟台灣的民情不同但是我們放諸四海\n\n03:11.986 --> 03:36.286\n全世界各國不然是荷蘭也好、日本也好、其他國家我們現在看到的好像這個人行道、人行、日本交通做得比較好的國家他們當年道路也是比較寬的慢慢的透過政府的溝通、社會的溝通慢慢的做到今天的樣子那我想問一下部長你對於這樣子的溝通工作你做好準備嗎?就像其實我剛剛跟女委員的問題有點類似因為我們都當過地方民意代表\n\n03:37.206 --> 04:06.866\n今天交通部的各位官員你們很專業也願意出很多錢我們出了幾百億希望去改善各地方的交通但是落到地方之後會遇到什麼障礙部長你看清楚吧這個我相當清楚其實行人路權的這個觀念其實在北部相對是比較簡單的你要限縮道路然後讓人行道能夠寬闊一點是比較容易的但坦白說在我們中部或者是在南部要做這方面的溝通其實我覺得在社會上的溝通要更加努力\n\n04:06.926 --> 04:08.907\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就«雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫》\n\n04:24.355 --> 04:39.875\n坦白說是這樣子但現在可以嗎?現在都不行了現在當然不行但是現在我們現在做人行道我坦白講最近的確感謝交通部也感謝內政部撥了很多款項到地方要來做人行道會議看的時候對啊里長就跳出來講啦我沒地方停車\n\n04:40.856 --> 05:01.976\n我道路不夠寬我有商店我有零停的問題所以這個問題我想問一下我們新的這個陳世凱部長你未來要怎麼樣來做社會溝通要怎麼樣去推動你除了把錢不下去把責任交給地方政府去執行之外那交通部作為全國這個預算最多最大的部會我們要怎麼樣去改變要怎麼樣去推動人本交通\n\n05:02.677 --> 05:20.243\n我覺得這個觀念除了宣導跟教育之外很重要的是政府要有決心交通部的部分有決心要這麼做不過坦白說因為委員您也是從地方的民意代表上來的您也很清楚有時候地方政府\n\n05:20.683 --> 05:24.785\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n\n05:44.616 --> 05:55.548\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n\n06:06.579 --> 06:31.294\n我想每年政府編列了非常多的這個宣傳預算那大家在野黨我們身為在野黨也常詬病說你們到底把錢花到哪裡去我想這就是一個部分就是說今天既然你要推動人本交通既然今天你希望能夠讓大眾去接受這樣的觀念那你們的這個所謂的行銷政策的預算就應該去做這件事情就像我講當年大安全貿多少人在罵但是又不推成了嗎\n\n06:32.214 --> 06:34.915\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。\n\n06:53.100 --> 07:11.149\n再來看到這個全國各縣市路口改善計畫我想這個也是盤點的過程裡面不管是民間通報數還是這個交通部通報數的確全台灣各處都非常的多但是其實以這一次我們講遺憾一點就這一次這個公車車禍的路口它其實並不在這個全國路口改善的這個範圍裡面\n\n07:13.010 --> 07:27.558\n所以換句話說到底這個盤點的過程是不是有更客觀的數據跟標準可以去盤點這個數據因為你今天不管是民間提報的因為這個包含說透過這個民眾通報路口改善有637那交通部自己通報的是799這些數量\n\n07:30.441 --> 07:52.052\n他怎麼而來?報告委員一方面是行人的這個傷亡的數字這個如果是高的地方當然就是我們優先要改善的地方那另外一個部分就是地方政府由他們來提報因為實際上地方的交通的路口哪裡比較危險需要急速的改善應該是地方政府會比中央政府更清楚所以有一大部分的數據是地方政府提報上來的\n\n07:53.112 --> 08:11.575\n那有沒有更客觀的除了死亡人數之外我是希望說今天我今天在這邊質詢就是因為過去都是用這個邏輯在做事情就是啊這類似地方裝紅綠燈一樣啦你要先有A級車或我才能裝紅綠燈這很多地方政府這樣幹今天但我們要做的是今天交通部如果要盡量推動所謂人門交通要推動路口改善計畫\n\n08:12.276 --> 08:32.319\n你除了看死亡人數之外有沒有預判預防的機制什麼樣的路口它應該被提報什麼樣的路口你應該編譯算改善不然每年真的我是說真的這兩年的確花了很多錢幾百億再去改善所謂的這個人行道路口改善但是其實說真的這個車禍死亡人數層數不窮啊死亡人數現在是上漲的是\n\n08:32.959 --> 08:51.269\n因為行人事故他比去年同期他還是增加的所以這個數字我讓部長當作一個警惕我們希望明年看到數的時候他一定要下降大家要一起努力沒有錯這很重要那再來一樣這個公車交通事故當然這是大家的焦點放在台中但是我們去看數據其實認真調閱數據是一個很驚人的數字111年因為公車這種貨大貨車的大客車\n\n08:57.572 --> 09:11.614\n不只是公營民營的這個交通則是公車死亡人數110.40去年43今年目前是13所以公車這個事情不是只有地方政府個別個別的去罵交通局長或去交通局長去裁罰公車業者\n\n09:12.930 --> 09:29.791\n今天猜到這個數據我想交通部這個數據是你們統計出來的全國的數據那就表示我們公車可能業者也好或司機也好或是整個交通的這個問題也好它有系統性的問題它每年有這麼多人因為公車喔這是公車而已喔沒有算其他的什麼大卡車都沒有就是公車而已\n\n09:30.851 --> 09:50.851\n一年有這麼多人因為公車而死亡所以不知道部長對這件事情有沒有什麼樣的想法你沒有提改善計畫嗎還是說就是各地方政府繼續各行其事臺北有臺北做法臺中有臺中做法高雄高雄做法那交通部做法是什麼報告委員目前齁我剛剛在幾位委員的詢問當中我都有回答就是說對於停等的這個強制性對於\n\n09:52.192 --> 10:09.121\n大型的客車或者大型的貨車我們都有要求而且是強制的啦如果沒有做到一定會有罰則那個停等是左轉跟右轉的時候必須停等這是第一個第二個車上的一些預警系統其實我們也都一定的規範包含說這個盲點的這個影像的部分\n\n10:09.741 --> 10:27.450\n每一台都有裝了每一台都有裝了那ADAS的部分目前裝的比例也非常的高所以這些設施的增加包含說停等的要求尤其是公車的部分我們要求他在停等的過程當中還要指叉確認也就是左邊看完右邊看右邊看完再往前看這些工作都有要求\n\n10:27.890 --> 10:42.474\n二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�\n\n10:57.638 --> 11:15.669\n統計出來的結果能夠真的少一點我希望是這樣那再來最後一題最後一題稍微再給我一點時間有一個很嚴重的時事這個假車牌今年特別氾濫2022年939件2023年924件到今年到5月就已經837了我想今年可能破千\n\n11:16.610 --> 11:40.256\n那這個假車牌當然有些網路論壇有提到說可能是因為所謂嚴重超速的這個規範變嚴之後很多的車牌他因為超速嘛所以被扣了所以他就去用偽造車牌那原因怎麼發生呢我先不細究今天時間不夠我們要談的是罰則的部分罰則的部分以現在來講是罰3600到18000部長你可以上網上蝦皮看一下假車牌多少錢啊是\n\n11:41.021 --> 11:56.830\n你罰的前夕跟假車牌比假車牌便宜啊我講真的所以他根本罰的不痛不癢那我們看到目前的交通道交條例、處罰條例裡面看下一頁除了罰錢之外還有一個是可以牌照、扣腳我就已經有假車牌了\n\n11:58.018 --> 12:21.790\n你還扣掉我的牌照那那個假車牌被扣掉意義在哪裡呢他還是可以去買個假車牌放上去啊所以這個邏輯問題就是說第一個你罰則已經比假車牌便宜了然後你又扣他的車牌那他去買一張不就好了嗎他買一張假的車牌放上去他繼續開在路上所以在罰則部分現有的條例裡面我認為你們有機會試用我們看下一頁\n\n12:23.735 --> 12:31.774\n在相關的法律裡面他本來就應該要取得相關的合格證明那如果沒有的話第一個車輛應該理論上依法是可以沒入的吧\n\n12:32.694 --> 13:02.514\n所以我希望說在假車牌這個問題上除了罰錢跟所謂你再扣繳息是沒有意義的之外對於車輛這個財產本身交通部有沒有機會去做執行所謂車輛摸輪行為部長這個部分可能條件上會比較嚴格但是委員您剛剛所提到的增加罰則的部分我們來研究然後通過立法院的同意我們大概就可以增加罰則是第一個第二個其實它是有刑責的用假車牌其實是有刑罰的部分那這個部分我們也可以來做討論那我們也可以來建議說看要不要修正\n\n13:02.956 --> 13:03.237\n好,部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.322,"end":1.645,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們一樣先請陳部長陳部長"},{"start":13.547,"end":35.914,"text":"好部長委員好部長辛苦了1點40分我想說你應該還沒用午餐但是我想這個年輕人年輕力壯應該撐得住啦OK沒問題謝謝所以部長我是第一次在這個交通委員會正式的業務質詢那我想這個部長跟我也是老交情的但是我們第一次面對面的來做這個質詢的工作我想今天心情此刻的心情跟上午應該還是有點不一樣了啦應該已經慢慢習慣了這個節奏"},{"start":37.995,"end":56.63,"text":"那部長這兩天來拜會的時候我也跟部長提一個期許我想今年交通委員會一年換三個部長那我們期待我們陳世凱部長未來三年同一個部長就好了我們的交通政策希望能夠延續下去那就來進行我的主題我想這個最近大家這禮拜關心到我們台中的這個公車問題"},{"start":57.771,"end":79.257,"text":"那有一個女大生過馬路招公車撞起這個不幸的這個事故我想最主要的問題當然大家還是回到這個行人地獄的問題我們從這個街景圖可以看到以目前這個現狀台中車站旁邊的道路也是台灣多數道路的形態這個部長你覺得這個道路看起來你第一個直覺是什麼直覺啊對"},{"start":85.157,"end":102.346,"text":"沒關係你就頂加你的直覺就好我們看我們看我們的這個意見沒有一致沒有一致我可以跟你講我分享我的直覺是什麼我的感覺他蠻寬敞的什麼寬敞其實不寬啊中山路我熟他其實不寬但照片看起來是寬敞的照片看起來人行道的設置是有的"},{"start":104.315,"end":123.629,"text":"這都看起來就是道路明顯的比這個人行道寬敞很多啦你也看到你剛才提到說的確中山路本身想像中路幅不寬但是也看到旁邊有一輛微停的計程車它是停在路側端但旁邊路側端這邊這一條路其實它還要很寬的路可以通過"},{"start":124.409,"end":145.345,"text":"是所以回到什麼問題就回到說今天到底就像剛剛牛委員講的一樣今天你這個部長新上任之後要跟過去的部長有什麼不一樣我們現在都提到說希望台灣的交通的部會這個交通的這個想法能夠從車本的交通轉換成人本交通我想今天這個道路很明顯的就在告訴部長說"},{"start":147.1,"end":162.82,"text":"雖然中山路已經不寬但他居然旁邊危停的計程車停在那裡他的路還過得去就表示這個道路設計是有問題他不是為了行人設計他是為了讓大家方便停車啊有人行道但不夠寬我們看下一張齁部長"},{"start":164.302,"end":191.085,"text":"當然是這個民間團體這個我從這個標線改造台灣路的這個臉書專頁上面拿下來這個圖我想這兩年這幾年下來很多人本交通的團體提供了交通部也提供民意代表很多的想法跟意見希望說能夠讓台灣的這個道路能夠走向這個人本交通的這個問題因為其實大家都知道說最嚴重的大家常常講說因為這個國外跟台灣的民情不同但是我們放諸四海"},{"start":191.986,"end":216.286,"text":"全世界各國不然是荷蘭也好、日本也好、其他國家我們現在看到的好像這個人行道、人行、日本交通做得比較好的國家他們當年道路也是比較寬的慢慢的透過政府的溝通、社會的溝通慢慢的做到今天的樣子那我想問一下部長你對於這樣子的溝通工作你做好準備嗎?就像其實我剛剛跟女委員的問題有點類似因為我們都當過地方民意代表"},{"start":217.206,"end":246.866,"text":"今天交通部的各位官員你們很專業也願意出很多錢我們出了幾百億希望去改善各地方的交通但是落到地方之後會遇到什麼障礙部長你看清楚吧這個我相當清楚其實行人路權的這個觀念其實在北部相對是比較簡單的你要限縮道路然後讓人行道能夠寬闊一點是比較容易的但坦白說在我們中部或者是在南部要做這方面的溝通其實我覺得在社會上的溝通要更加努力"},{"start":246.926,"end":248.907,"text":"二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就 «雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫》"},{"start":264.355,"end":279.875,"text":"坦白說是這樣子但現在可以嗎?現在都不行了現在當然不行但是現在我們現在做人行道我坦白講最近的確感謝交通部也感謝內政部撥了很多款項到地方要來做人行道會議看的時候對啊里長就跳出來講啦我沒地方停車"},{"start":280.856,"end":301.976,"text":"我道路不夠寬我有商店我有零停的問題所以這個問題我想問一下我們新的這個陳世凱部長你未來要怎麼樣來做社會溝通要怎麼樣去推動你除了把錢不下去把責任交給地方政府去執行之外那交通部作為全國這個預算最多最大的部會我們要怎麼樣去改變要怎麼樣去推動人本交通"},{"start":302.677,"end":320.243,"text":"我覺得這個觀念除了宣導跟教育之外很重要的是政府要有決心交通部的部分有決心要這麼做不過坦白說因為委員您也是從地方的民意代表上來的您也很清楚有時候地方政府"},{"start":320.683,"end":324.785,"text":"二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。"},{"start":344.616,"end":355.548,"text":"二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�"},{"start":366.579,"end":391.294,"text":"我想每年政府編列了非常多的這個宣傳預算那大家在野黨我們身為在野黨也常詬病說你們到底把錢花到哪裡去我想這就是一個部分就是說今天既然你要推動人本交通既然今天你希望能夠讓大眾去接受這樣的觀念那你們的這個所謂的行銷政策的預算就應該去做這件事情就像我講當年大安全貿多少人在罵但是又不推成了嗎"},{"start":392.214,"end":394.915,"text":"二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。"},{"start":413.1,"end":431.149,"text":"再來看到這個全國各縣市路口改善計畫我想這個也是盤點的過程裡面不管是民間通報數還是這個交通部通報數的確全台灣各處都非常的多但是其實以這一次我們講遺憾一點就這一次這個公車車禍的路口它其實並不在這個全國路口改善的這個範圍裡面"},{"start":433.01,"end":447.558,"text":"所以換句話說到底這個盤點的過程是不是有更客觀的數據跟標準可以去盤點這個數據因為你今天不管是民間提報的因為這個包含說透過這個民眾通報路口改善有637那交通部自己通報的是799這些數量"},{"start":450.441,"end":472.052,"text":"他怎麼而來?報告委員一方面是行人的這個傷亡的數字這個如果是高的地方當然就是我們優先要改善的地方那另外一個部分就是地方政府由他們來提報因為實際上地方的交通的路口哪裡比較危險需要急速的改善應該是地方政府會比中央政府更清楚所以有一大部分的數據是地方政府提報上來的"},{"start":473.112,"end":491.575,"text":"那有沒有更客觀的除了死亡人數之外我是希望說今天我今天在這邊質詢就是因為過去都是用這個邏輯在做事情就是啊這類似地方裝紅綠燈一樣啦你要先有A級車或我才能裝紅綠燈這很多地方政府這樣幹今天但我們要做的是今天交通部如果要盡量推動所謂人門交通要推動路口改善計畫"},{"start":492.276,"end":512.319,"text":"你除了看死亡人數之外有沒有預判預防的機制什麼樣的路口它應該被提報什麼樣的路口你應該編譯算改善不然每年真的我是說真的這兩年的確花了很多錢幾百億再去改善所謂的這個人行道路口改善但是其實說真的這個車禍死亡人數層數不窮啊死亡人數現在是上漲的是"},{"start":512.959,"end":531.269,"text":"因為行人事故他比去年同期他還是增加的所以這個數字我讓部長當作一個警惕我們希望明年看到數的時候他一定要下降大家要一起努力沒有錯這很重要那再來一樣這個公車交通事故當然這是大家的焦點放在台中但是我們去看數據其實認真調閱數據是一個很驚人的數字111年因為公車這種貨大貨車的大客車"},{"start":537.572,"end":551.614,"text":"不只是公營民營的這個交通則是公車死亡人數110.40去年43今年目前是13所以公車這個事情不是只有地方政府個別個別的去罵交通局長或去交通局長去裁罰公車業者"},{"start":552.93,"end":569.791,"text":"今天猜到這個數據我想交通部這個數據是你們統計出來的全國的數據那就表示我們公車可能業者也好或司機也好或是整個交通的這個問題也好它有系統性的問題它每年有這麼多人因為公車喔這是公車而已喔沒有算其他的什麼大卡車都沒有就是公車而已"},{"start":570.851,"end":590.851,"text":"一年有這麼多人因為公車而死亡所以不知道部長對這件事情有沒有什麼樣的想法你沒有提改善計畫嗎還是說就是各地方政府繼續各行其事臺北有臺北做法臺中有臺中做法高雄高雄做法那交通部做法是什麼報告委員目前齁我剛剛在幾位委員的詢問當中我都有回答就是說對於停等的這個強制性對於"},{"start":592.192,"end":609.121,"text":"大型的客車或者大型的貨車我們都有要求而且是強制的啦如果沒有做到一定會有罰則那個停等是左轉跟右轉的時候必須停等這是第一個第二個車上的一些預警系統其實我們也都一定的規範包含說這個盲點的這個影像的部分"},{"start":609.741,"end":627.45,"text":"每一台都有裝了每一台都有裝了那ADAS的部分目前裝的比例也非常的高所以這些設施的增加包含說停等的要求尤其是公車的部分我們要求他在停等的過程當中還要指叉確認也就是左邊看完右邊看右邊看完再往前看這些工作都有要求"},{"start":627.89,"end":642.474,"text":"二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就、「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備�"},{"start":657.638,"end":675.669,"text":"統計出來的結果能夠真的少一點我希望是這樣那再來最後一題最後一題稍微再給我一點時間有一個很嚴重的時事這個假車牌今年特別氾濫2022年939件2023年924件到今年到5月就已經837了我想今年可能破千"},{"start":676.61,"end":700.256,"text":"那這個假車牌當然有些網路論壇有提到說可能是因為所謂嚴重超速的這個規範變嚴之後很多的車牌他因為超速嘛所以被扣了所以他就去用偽造車牌那原因怎麼發生呢我先不細究今天時間不夠我們要談的是罰則的部分罰則的部分以現在來講是罰3600到18000部長你可以上網上蝦皮看一下假車牌多少錢啊是"},{"start":701.021,"end":716.83,"text":"你罰的前夕跟假車牌比假車牌便宜啊我講真的所以他根本罰的不痛不癢那我們看到目前的交通道交條例、處罰條例裡面看下一頁除了罰錢之外還有一個是可以牌照、扣腳我就已經有假車牌了"},{"start":718.018,"end":741.79,"text":"你還扣掉我的牌照那那個假車牌被扣掉意義在哪裡呢他還是可以去買個假車牌放上去啊所以這個邏輯問題就是說第一個你罰則已經比假車牌便宜了然後你又扣他的車牌那他去買一張不就好了嗎他買一張假的車牌放上去他繼續開在路上所以在罰則部分現有的條例裡面我認為你們有機會試用我們看下一頁"},{"start":743.735,"end":751.774,"text":"在相關的法律裡面他本來就應該要取得相關的合格證明那如果沒有的話第一個車輛應該理論上依法是可以沒入的吧"},{"start":752.694,"end":782.514,"text":"所以我希望說在假車牌這個問題上除了罰錢跟所謂你再扣繳息是沒有意義的之外對於車輛這個財產本身交通部有沒有機會去做執行所謂車輛摸輪行為部長這個部分可能條件上會比較嚴格但是委員您剛剛所提到的增加罰則的部分我們來研究然後通過立法院的同意我們大概就可以增加罰則是第一個第二個其實它是有刑責的用假車牌其實是有刑罰的部分那這個部分我們也可以來做討論那我們也可以來建議說看要不要修正"},{"start":782.956,"end":783.237,"text":"好,部長謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-2","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-26T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"13:39:44 - 13:52:50","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、內政部、內政部警政署及內政部國土管理署就「行人交通安全改善成效暨道路見警率對於道安事故防範效益與警力配置」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱及國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微就「臺鐵公司化執行情況、獎敘規範暨軌道月台旅客安全規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","id":154906,"gazette":{"lineno":1388,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（13時39分）好，謝謝主席，我們一樣先請陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長辛苦了，1點40分，我想你應該還沒用午餐，但是我想年輕人年輕力壯，應該還撐得住啦！"],["陳部長世凱：沒問題，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，我是第一次在交通委員會正式的業務質詢，部長跟我也是老交情了，但是我們第一次面對面的來做這個質詢的工作，我想部長此刻的心情跟上午應該還是有點不一樣，應該已經慢慢習慣了這個節奏。部長這兩天來拜會的時候我也跟部長提了一個期許，今年交通部一年換三個部長，我們期待陳世凱部長未來三年同一個部長就好了，我們的交通政策希望能夠延續下去。","那就來進行我的主題，大家這個禮拜關心到我們臺中的公車問題，有一個女大生過馬路遭公車撞擊的不幸事故，我想最主要的問題當然還是回到行人地獄的問題，我們從這個街景圖可以看到，以目前臺中車站旁邊這個道路的現狀，也是臺灣多數道路的型態，對於這個道路部長看起來第一個直覺是什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：直覺啊？"],["黃委員健豪：對，沒關係，你講你的直覺就好，看我們的意見有沒有一致，如果沒有一致，我可以跟你講我分享我的直覺是什麼。"],["陳部長世凱：我的感覺是它蠻寬敞的。"],["黃委員健豪：什麼很寬敞？"],["陳部長世凱：其實不寬啦！中山路我熟，它其實不寬，但照片看起來是寬敞的，人行道的設置是有的。"],["黃委員健豪：這個看起來就是道路明顯的比人行道寬敞很多啦！"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["黃委員健豪：你剛才提到，的確中山路本身路幅不寬，但是可以看到旁邊有一輛違停的計程車，它是停在路側端，但旁邊路側端的這一條路其實還有很寬的路可以通過。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["黃委員健豪：所以回到什麼問題？就像剛剛林委員講的一樣，今天你這個部長新上任之後要跟過去的部長有什麼不一樣？我們現在都提到希望臺灣交通部會的想法能夠從車本的交通轉換成人本交通，我想今天這一個道路很明顯的就在告訴部長，雖然中山路已經不寬，但居然旁邊有違停的計程車停在那裡，它的路還過得去，就表示這個道路設計是有問題的，它不是為了行人設計，它是為了讓大家方便停車。"],["陳部長世凱：是，有人行道，但不夠寬。"],["黃委員健豪：我們看下一張照片，部長，這是我從民間團體──標線改造台灣路的臉書專頁截取的圖，我想這幾年下來很多人本交通的團體提供交通部，也提供民意代表很多的想法跟意見，希望能夠讓臺灣的道路走向人本交通。其實大家都知道，大家常常說國外跟臺灣的民情不同，但是我們放諸四海，全世界各國，不管是荷蘭也好、日本也好，或是我們現在看到人本交通做得比較好的其他國家，當年他們的道路也是比較寬的，透過政府的溝通、社會的溝通慢慢才做到今天這個樣子。","我想問一下部長，你對於這樣子的溝通工作做好準備了嗎？其實我跟剛剛牛委員的問題有點類似，因為我們都當過地方民意代表，今天交通部的各位官員你們很專業，也願意出很多錢，我們出了幾百億，希望去改善各地方的交通，但是落到地方之後會遇到什麼障礙，部長，你應該清楚吧？"],["陳部長世凱：這個我相當清楚，其實行人路權的這個觀念在北部相對是比較簡單的，你要限縮道路，然後讓人行道能夠寬闊一點是比較容易的，但坦白說，在我們中部或者是在南部，要做這方面的溝通，其實我覺得在社會上的溝通要更加努力一些。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，我提供過去臺灣執行兩個與交通有關的案例，後來大家慢慢接受，現在也都是鐵律的法令，第一個就是戴安全帽，第二個叫做酒駕。當年大家都找民意代表喬，坦白說是這樣子，但現在可以嗎？現在都不行。"],["陳部長世凱：現在當然不行。"],["黃委員健豪：但是我們現在做人行道，坦白講，的確也感謝交通部、也感謝內政部撥了很多款項到地方要來做人行道，會勘的時候里長就跳出來講了，我沒地方停車、我道路不夠寬……"],["陳部長世凱：還有我有商店。"],["黃委員健豪：我有商店、我有臨停的問題，所以這個問題我想問一下新上任的陳世凱部長，你未來要怎麼樣來做社會溝通，要怎麼樣去推動？你除了把錢撥下去，把責任交給地方政府去執行之外，交通部作為全國預算最多、最大的部會，我們要怎麼樣去改變，要怎麼推動人本交通，你有想法嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我覺得這個觀念除了宣導跟教育之外，很重要的是政府要有決心，交通部的部分有決心要這麼做，不過坦白說，委員您也是從地方的民意代表上來的，你也很清楚，有時候地方政府礙於地方民情的狀況底下，會有一些不太願意配合的部分。我覺得是這個樣子，我現在觀察到有一個點，就是社會對於行人路權的這個觀念越來越重，當社會的這個觀念越來越成熟的時候，其實政府要推動這件事就可以更簡單一點，所以我在交通部長任內，我會大力來推行這樣子的觀念，甚至我會主動到地方去跟地方政府溝通，當然我知道委員期許的應該會是更大幅度的修改一些交通上面的法令跟規則，讓這些東西能夠實際落實，這個部分我們也來做檢討。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，我想不只是更多的經費跟法規，每年政府編列了非常多的宣傳預算，我們身為在野黨也常常詬病說你們到底把錢花到哪裡去，我想這就是一個部分，今天既然你要推動人本交通，既然今天你希望能夠讓大眾去接受這樣的觀念，那你們這個所謂行銷政策的預算就應該去做這些事情。就像我講的，當年規定戴安全帽，多少人在罵，但最後推成了；繫安全帶也很多人在罵，也推成了；酒駕有多少人在罵，說這樣不方便，鄉下沒有什麼公車、沒有計程車，我回不了家，現在也推成了。我想交通部每一任部長都有每一任部長的代表作，我期待陳部長你能夠把代表作放在人本交通，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好，這個部分我來努力，人本交通是我們第一個最重要的工作。"],["黃委員健豪：再來看到全國各縣市路口改善計畫，我想在盤點的過程裡面，不管是民間通報數還是交通部通報數，的確全臺灣各處都非常的多，但是其實以這一次這個公車車禍的路口，它其實並不在這個全國路口改善的範圍裡面。換句話說，這個盤點的過程到底是不是有更客觀的數據跟標準可以去盤點這個數據？因為今天不管是民間提報的，這個包含透過民眾通報的路口改善有637處，交通部自己通報的是799處，這些數量怎麼而來？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，一方面是行人的傷亡數字如果是高的地方，當然就是我們優先要改善的地方。"],["黃委員健豪：對。"],["陳部長世凱：另外一個部分就是由地方政府來提報，因為實際上地方交通的路口哪裡比較危險，需要急速的改善，應該是地方政府會比中央政府更清楚，所以有一大部分的數據是地方政府提報上來的。"],["黃委員健豪：除了死亡人數之外，有沒有更客觀的？我是希望今天我在這邊質詢，因為過去都是用這個邏輯在做事情，就類似地方裝紅綠燈一樣，你要先有A級車禍，我才能裝紅綠燈，很多地方政府都這樣做，但今天交通部如果要推動所謂的人本交通、要推動路口改善計畫，除了看死亡人數之外，有沒有預判、預防的機制，什麼樣的路口應該被提報，什麼樣路口應該編列預算改善？不然這兩年在人行道、路口的改善上的確花了很多錢，有幾百億，但是其實說真的，車禍死亡的人數層出不窮，死亡人數現在是上升的。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["黃委員健豪：尤其是行人事故，更比去年同期是增加的，所以這個數字我讓部長當作一個警惕，我們希望明年看到數字的時候一定要下降，不要再上升。"],["陳部長世凱：大家要一起努力，沒有錯，這很重要。"],["黃委員健豪：再來一樣是有關公車交通事故，當然這次大家的焦點放在臺中，但是我們去看數據，認真調閱數據會發現其實是很驚人的數字，因為公車這種大客車或者是公營、民營公車事故的死亡人數去年是43人，今年目前是13人，所以公車這個事情，不是只有個別去罵地方政府的交通局長，或是交通局長去裁罰公車業者，今天看到這個數據，我想這個數據是交通部統計出來的全國數據，那就表示我們的公車業者、司機，或是整個交通的問題可能有系統性的問題，才會每年有這麼多人因為公車，這是公車而已，沒有算其他大卡車等等，都沒有，就是公車而已，一年有這麼多人因為公車而死亡。不知道部長對這件事情有沒有什麼樣的想法，你沒有提改善計畫嗎？還是說就是各地方政府繼續各行其是，臺北有臺北的作法，臺中有臺中的作法，高雄有高雄的作法，那交通部的作法是什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，剛剛在幾位委員的詢問當中我都有回答，對於停等的強制性，對於大型的客車或者大型的貨車我們都有要求，而且是強制的，如果沒有做到，一定會有罰則，停等是左轉跟右轉的時候必須停等，這是第一個。第二個，車上的一些預警系統其實我們也都有一定的規範，包含盲點影像的部分，每一台都有裝了；ADAS的部分，目前裝的比例也非常的高，所以這些設施的增加，包含停等的要求，尤其是公車的部分，我們要求他在停等的過程當中還要指差確認，也就是左邊看完右邊看、右邊看完再往前看，這些都有要求。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，的確這一次的事故，理論上預警系統它也有……"],["陳部長世凱：是，都有預警系統。"],["黃委員健豪：所以我還是覺得交通部應該用召回或是什麼樣方式重新去培養，讓公車司機或公車業者去認知到這件事情到底要怎麼執行。"],["陳部長世凱：其實法令面跟設備面都有，但就是執行面的部分我們希望更落實一點，讓公車業者強力去要求他們的駕駛一定要這麼做。"],["黃委員健豪：好。最後，公車的部分，我們希望明年的數字不要再破40了，希望今年統計出來的結果能夠真的少一點。"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望是這樣。"],["黃委員健豪：再來，最後一題，召委，對不起，再給我一點時間。有一個很嚴重的時事，假車牌今年特別氾濫，2022年539件，2023年924件，今年到5月就已經837件了，我想今年可能破千。關於假車牌，當然有些網路論壇有提到，可能是因為嚴重超速的規範變嚴之後，很多人因為超速車牌被扣了，所以他就去用偽造車牌，但原因是怎麼發生的？我先不細究，今天時間不夠，我們要談的是罰則的部分。罰則的部分，以現在來講是罰3,600元到1萬8,000元，部長，你可以上網、上蝦皮看一下假車牌多少錢，你罰的錢比假車牌還便宜！我講真的，所以他根本被罰得不痛不癢。目前的道交處罰條例裡面，除了罰錢之外，還有一個是可以牌照扣繳，但他就已經用假車牌了，你還扣繳他的牌照，那個假車牌被扣繳的意義在哪裡呢？他還是可以去買個假車牌放上去啊！所以這個是邏輯問題，第一個，你罰則已經比假車牌便宜了，然後你又扣他的車牌，他去買一張不就好了嗎？他買一張假的車牌放上去，他還是可以繼續開在路上。所以罰則的部分，在現有的條例裡面，我認為你們有機會可以適用。在相關的法律裡面，他本來就應該要取得相關的合格證明，如果沒有的話，第一個，理論上車輛依法是可以沒入的吧？所以我希望在假車牌這個問題上面，除了罰錢跟所謂你再扣繳其實是沒有意義的之外，對於車輛這個財產本身，部長，交通部有沒有機會去做執行車輛沒入的行為？"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分可能條件上會比較嚴格，但是委員您剛剛所提到的增加罰則的部分，我們來研究，然後經過立法院的同意，我們大概就可以增加罰則，這是第一個。第二個，其實它是有刑責的，用假車牌其實是有刑罰的部分，這個部分我們可以來討論，也可以來建議說看要不要修正。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員。","接下來有請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":388,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-2","speakers":["魯明哲","蔡其昌","李昆澤","許智傑","何欣純","廖先翔","萬美玲","林沛祥","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","游顥","賴士葆","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王鴻薇","黃國昌","盧縣一","林月琴","洪申翰","牛煦庭","黃健豪","羅智強","蔡易餘","葉元之","徐欣瑩","林國成","劉建國","傅崐萁"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2024-09-26"],"gazette_id":"1137601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137601_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、內政部、內政部警政署及內政部國土管理署就「行人交通安全改善\n成效暨道路見警率對於道安事故防範效益與警力配置」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通\n部部長陳世凱就「雙十假期數波返鄉車潮之交通整備暨海陸空疏運計畫」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢；三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱及國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微就「臺鐵公司化執行情\n況、獎敘規範暨軌道月台旅客安全規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137601_00018"}}}