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{\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 99.9, \"end\": 100.96, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 100.96, \"end\": 101.061, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 101.061, \"end\": 101.421, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 101.421, \"end\": 101.541, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 101.541, \"end\": 101.981, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 101.981, \"end\": 102.101, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 102.101, \"end\": 102.121, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"抵\", \"start\": 102.121, \"end\": 102.181, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"抗\", \"start\": 102.181, \"end\": 102.201, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"權\"}]}, {\"start\": 106.343, \"end\": 115.36, \"text\": \"反國會搞杯葛進行權力的對抗行政機關依法行政難道不是法治國的基本原則嗎您認同嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"反\", 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{\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 115.34, \"end\": 115.36, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 116.946, \"end\": 118.708, \"text\": \"我希望卓院長您能夠真的尊重依法行政很重要的民主法治國家的原則\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 116.946, \"end\": 117.106, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 117.106, \"end\": 117.266, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 117.266, \"end\": 117.286, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 117.286, \"end\": 117.427, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 117.427, \"end\": 117.447, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 117.447, \"end\": 117.547, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 117.547, \"end\": 117.567, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 117.567, \"end\": 117.667, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 117.667, \"end\": 117.727, \"score\": 0.424}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 117.727, \"end\": 117.747, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 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751.687, \"end\": 758.373, \"text\": \"委員也應該清楚 有一些假訊息的來源也是在特定的單位啊沒有特定的單位在製造假訊息啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 751.687, \"end\": 751.947, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 751.947, \"end\": 752.347, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 752.347, \"end\": 752.527, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 752.527, \"end\": 752.948, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 752.948, \"end\": 753.068, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 753.068, \"end\": 753.168, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 753.168, \"end\": 753.368, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 753.368, \"end\": 753.789, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 753.789, \"end\": 753.889, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 753.889, \"end\": 754.169, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 754.169, \"end\": 754.389, 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1067.853, \"end\": 1068.313, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1068.313, \"end\": 1068.433, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1068.433, \"end\": 1068.594, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1068.594, \"end\": 1068.614, \"score\": 0.971}]}, {\"start\": 1070.635, \"end\": 1092.393, \"text\": \"除了看到媒體宣傳預算機費之外我還觀察到了NCC的預算其實這些年大家都很關心NCC的預算編列的狀況特別是有關於訴訟費用的部分本期有看到在今年你們提出來的114年的NCC的訴訟費用裡面這次又編了801萬\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 1070.635, \"end\": 1070.775, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1070.775, \"end\": 1070.915, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1070.915, \"end\": 1071.055, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1071.055, \"end\": 1071.195, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 1071.195, \"end\": 1071.595, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 1071.595, \"end\": 1072.436, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 1379.962, \"end\": 1380.182, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1380.182, \"end\": 1380.362, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1380.362, \"end\": 1380.562, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 1380.562, \"end\": 1380.783, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1380.783, \"end\": 1381.463, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1381.463, \"end\": 1381.483, \"score\": 0.931}]}, {\"start\": 1381.783, \"end\": 1382.444, \"text\": \"您認同這樣的看法嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1381.783, \"end\": 1382.043, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 1382.043, \"end\": 1382.144, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1382.144, \"end\": 1382.244, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1382.244, \"end\": 1382.424, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1382.424, \"end\": 1382.444, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 1394.392, \"end\": 1416.583, \"text\": \"我也注意到一開始他講這個是有條件的合憲他設定了一些條件那這些條件我們可以在用未來修法的過程當中讓它符合但是我不覺得這樣就把它等同於是實質的廢死我們還是有執行死刑在社會上經過剛剛委員說那個條件之後是有其必要跟空間的時候還是要執行的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1394.392, \"end\": 1394.492, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1394.492, \"end\": 1394.592, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 1394.592, \"end\": 1394.732, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1394.732, \"end\": 1394.792, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1394.792, \"end\": 1394.992, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1394.992, \"end\": 1395.212, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 1395.212, \"end\": 1395.312, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 1395.312, \"end\": 1395.893, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1395.893, \"end\": 1396.033, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": 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\"必\", \"start\": 1414.862, \"end\": 1414.962, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1414.962, \"end\": 1415.082, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1415.082, \"end\": 1415.242, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 1415.242, \"end\": 1415.522, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1415.522, \"end\": 1415.803, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 1415.803, \"end\": 1415.983, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1415.983, \"end\": 1416.063, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1416.063, \"end\": 1416.363, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 1416.363, \"end\": 1416.563, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1416.563, \"end\": 1416.583, \"score\": 0.147}]}, {\"start\": 1417.179, \"end\": 1426.995, \"text\": \"好 我想請問這個院長您知不知道這一次大法官做出死刑有條件的合憲判決有幾位大法官是贊成這項判決的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1417.179, \"end\": 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\"start\": 1425.533, \"end\": 1425.693, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1425.693, \"end\": 1425.874, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1425.874, \"end\": 1426.034, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 1426.034, \"end\": 1426.254, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1426.254, \"end\": 1426.454, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"贊\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1426.454, \"end\": 1426.695, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 1426.695, \"end\": 1426.975, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1426.975, \"end\": 1426.995, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1429.355, \"end\": 1451.46, \"text\": \"我知道有幾位是有不同的意見我告訴您這次的這個憲法法院的裁判大概我看起來就是有七位大法官是完全贊同這次的釋憲理由死刑有條件的核憲五位大法官分別提出了不同意見有一位大法官是完全的反對就是支持要廢死的那這樣的比數代表什麼意義\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1429.355, \"end\": 1429.535, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 1429.535, \"end\": 1429.615, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 1429.615, \"end\": 1429.735, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1429.735, \"end\": 1430.035, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 1430.035, \"end\": 1430.195, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1430.195, \"end\": 1430.295, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1430.295, \"end\": 1430.435, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1430.435, \"end\": 1430.555, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 1430.555, \"end\": 1430.695, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1430.695, \"end\": 1430.775, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1430.775, \"end\": 1431.596, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1431.596, \"end\": 1431.776, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1431.776, \"end\": 1432.116, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1432.116, \"end\": 1432.936, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, 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1442.958, \"end\": 1443.158, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1443.158, \"end\": 1443.358, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1443.358, \"end\": 1443.538, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 1443.538, \"end\": 1443.698, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1443.698, \"end\": 1443.818, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 1443.818, \"end\": 1443.958, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 1443.958, \"end\": 1444.098, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 1444.098, \"end\": 1444.218, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1444.218, \"end\": 1444.318, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1444.318, \"end\": 1444.418, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 1444.418, \"end\": 1444.598, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1444.598, \"end\": 1444.918, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1444.918, \"end\": 1445.078, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": 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0.968}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 1448.279, \"end\": 1448.799, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1448.799, \"end\": 1449.379, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"死\", \"start\": 1449.379, \"end\": 1449.519, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1449.519, \"end\": 1450.12, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1450.12, \"end\": 1450.5, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1450.5, \"end\": 1450.64, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 1450.64, \"end\": 1450.96, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 1450.96, \"end\": 1451.1, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 1451.1, \"end\": 1451.24, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 1451.24, \"end\": 1451.44, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1451.44, \"end\": 1451.46, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"義\"}]}, {\"start\": 1453.305, \"end\": 1473.548, \"text\": \"就是在討論的過程一定相當的意見分歧而且各有意見沒錯 院長您的觀察是對的就代表這份判決其實內容有高度的爭議所以不是裡面的內容是大部分有蠻多的大法官是反對的像這樣的憲法判決坦白說真的很難服眾\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1453.305, \"end\": 1453.425, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1453.425, \"end\": 1453.866, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1453.866, \"end\": 1454.286, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1454.286, \"end\": 1454.526, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 1454.526, \"end\": 1454.727, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1454.727, \"end\": 1454.847, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 1454.847, \"end\": 1455.027, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 1455.027, \"end\": 1455.427, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1455.427, \"end\": 1455.528, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1455.528, \"end\": 1455.868, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1455.868, \"end\": 1456.068, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"歧\", \"start\": 1456.068, \"end\": 1456.188, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 1456.188, \"end\": 1456.308, \"score\": 0.626}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 1456.308, \"end\": 1456.569, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 1456.569, \"end\": 1456.989, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1456.989, \"end\": 1457.109, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1457.109, \"end\": 1457.25, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1457.25, \"end\": 1458.111, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1458.111, \"end\": 1458.451, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1458.451, \"end\": 1458.591, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1458.591, \"end\": 1458.711, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 1458.711, \"end\": 1458.871, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": 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\"start\": 1821.716, \"end\": 1821.736, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"翁\", \"start\": 1847.571, \"end\": 1848.152, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 1848.152, \"end\": 1848.272, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1848.272, \"end\": 1848.292, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,796 --> 00:00:01,016\n翁曉玲委員質詢\n\n2\n00:00:25,533 --> 00:00:26,073\n請兩位部長稍待\n\n3\n00:00:56,003 --> 00:01:18,878\n謝謝翁曉玲好是院長好您上任至今已經超過4個月了那麼以您過去豐富的政治經驗然後曾經擔任郭立法委員然後行政院秘書長然後民進黨主席我相信您應該能夠深刻的瞭解一句話就是國家要進步不能夠走回頭路大家要團結一致向前走\n\n4\n00:01:21,114 --> 00:01:42,201\n非常贊成這也是賴清德總統在選前的時候曾經說過的一段話那我也非常認同不過就是我看您這四個月來的表現卻讓我觀察到您怎麼好像像是在走20年前的陳水扁當時擔任總統朝小野大的時代那麼這個行政機關是帶頭這個行使抵抗權\n\n5\n00:01:46,343 --> 00:01:55,360\n反國會搞杯葛進行權力的對抗行政機關依法行政難道不是法治國的基本原則嗎您認同嗎\n\n6\n00:01:56,946 --> 00:01:58,708\n我希望卓院長您能夠真的尊重依法行政很重要的民主法治國家的原則\n\n7\n00:02:22,850 --> 00:02:50,745\n如果連全國最高的中央行政機關行政院都能夠帶頭搞對抗然後把法律踩在腳底下是法律於無物的話那麼台灣還是法治國嗎我想可能就要成為獨裁國家了絕沒有這樣的做法而且依法行政是我心中最大的一個依序院長請問您知道為什麼這次立法院要退回中央政府總預算\n\n8\n00:02:52,205 --> 00:03:17,947\n我們彼此的溝通還尚待加強其實本期認為這個最主要的原因也是跟我剛剛講的一樣就是我們觀察到其實行政院尤其是您上任之後根本就是把立法院當空氣然後把國會所做的一些決議當成耳邊風那在這樣的一個情況之下立法院所做的修法和決議您完全不理會也不願意遵守\n\n9\n00:03:18,507 --> 00:03:18,867\n國會改革法案\n\n10\n00:03:40,765 --> 00:03:51,427\n又不遵守我們通過的NCC組織法要求現任的NCC委員不可以再繼續留任仍然執意讓翁伯中副主委繼續代理主委\n\n11\n00:03:52,359 --> 00:04:16,673\n同時你也不依據新修正過的原住民進法補償條例去編足足夠的補償經費你也不甩立法院所做的各項決議包含像是調高公糧收購價格、調高健保點值以及電價動漲的決議還有要解除開放赴大陸的旅行團\n\n12\n00:04:18,091 --> 00:04:29,430\n那麼簡單來說就是行政院你該依法辦理的你不辦理你該編列預算的你不去編列預算這種態度在我們看來就是藐視立法權\n\n13\n00:04:32,093 --> 00:04:59,640\n是名譽無誤您口口聲聲說您要尋求溝通協調但是在我們的看到您現在的作為其實就是擺爛就是搞對立反正這個你們不重編這個行政院的預算我們看起來立法院也耐你們也無法這個對你們有什麼樣的其他的一個作為這樣子一個情況之下其實我真的感到非常的感慨\n\n14\n00:05:02,140 --> 00:05:28,569\n委員對我們的誤會頗深我如果當不尊重不尊重立法院的話那今天我們的對話我站在這裡好好的聆聽就是完全的尊重立法院執行刑事法我們看到就是院長您到底有沒有尊重我們立法院所通過修正的法律我剛剛所講的那些例子有哪一個是錯的有哪一個是假訊息不是這都是\n\n15\n00:05:30,169 --> 00:05:53,232\n立法院執權刑事法就是最近很多委員在講的院紀分立行政立法司法監察的院紀分立我們要嚴守是的你的院紀分立可是必須要尊重的我只有三個原則第一個就是讓機關正常運作第二個是快速審查第三個我會依法行政立法院所通過的NCC組織法\n\n16\n00:05:53,652 --> 00:06:02,960\n為的是讓機關能夠正常運作也登請大院能夠審查人事權之後我們一定依法行政我們無非就是希望你們能夠重新編列合理的預算能夠考察民意體諒民間的疾苦不要把錢\n\n17\n00:06:22,856 --> 00:06:23,837\n委員應該知道原因為什麼會這麼高\n\n18\n00:06:40,843 --> 00:06:59,482\n委員知道預算為什麼會這麼高對我沒有請您回答我現在講就是說如果行政院你繼續把立法院當空氣那麼立法院也不會對你客氣最後呢國家搞的這個烏煙瘴氣民眾一肚子氣坦白說賴政府也占不到便宜喔\n\n19\n00:07:00,043 --> 00:07:00,583\n中央政府公務預算編列約15億元\n\n20\n00:07:22,754 --> 00:07:41,535\n的業務宣導費用比去年113年的法定預算多了9億增高的幅度是65%那麼如果說我們再把其他的營業非營業基金還有公務預算的所有的媒體宣傳經費加起來已經超過了27億\n\n21\n00:07:44,352 --> 00:08:12,989\n在中間我們仔細的去調查研究也發現有5個部會機關每年編的宣傳費用高達上億這包含內政部衛福部經濟部勞動部和農業部這5個部會機關每年都編了上億元的媒體宣傳費用如果說把這5個機關的媒體宣傳費用加起來是佔整個中央政府的業務的宣傳費用的一半以上\n\n22\n00:08:16,317 --> 00:08:36,935\n請問院長我們的政府有必要去花這麼多的錢做宣傳廣告嗎政府必要把自己國家政府的政策充分清楚地向人民說清楚所以你們自己說不清楚非得要請媒體來幫你們說清楚我們是請媒體轉述政府政策的說明自己一定要說清楚好我要再講就是說其實呢這個國際\n\n23\n00:08:39,237 --> 00:08:40,337\n臺灣的新聞自由度是有進步﹚可是報告當中也指出﹚\n\n24\n00:09:01,783 --> 00:09:03,344\n請問院長您知道為什麼我們的民眾不相信媒體\n\n25\n00:09:30,064 --> 00:09:46,920\n委員應該跟我們一起面對假訊息之何來我們受到的假訊息的攻擊從何而來最多我們應該找到那個源頭如果委員能夠跟我們一起的話就會知道問題之所在我要告訴你我確實是找到了這個假新聞傳播的源頭\n\n26\n00:09:47,941 --> 00:10:06,098\n我必須告訴您以我自己是傳媒專業我也教這個相關傳播法律我發現這些假訊息的來源還有民眾為什麼不相信媒體最大的原因就是因為臺灣的政媒不分媒體政治化的情形非常嚴重尤其是民進黨政府這8年來\n\n27\n00:10:07,259 --> 00:10:28,239\n政府收買媒體大量的以發包業務宣傳廣告標案形式與新聞媒體進行錢權交易的問題非常嚴重媒體為了取得政府的標案不敢監督政府反而是討好政府為政府插支抹粉去掩護他們的錯誤政策和弊案\n\n28\n00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:29,119\n執政委員：翁曉玲\n\n29\n00:10:47,069 --> 00:11:10,348\n媒體最重要的原因那我也認為政府應該要負最大的責任我們來看看民進黨政府的這些這8年來到底這個業務宣傳廣告費用是給了哪些媒體那麼我們也自己做了一些調查也發現這8年來拿到媒體拿到政府標案最多的媒體就是民視三立\n\n30\n00:11:11,633 --> 00:11:29,910\n明氏得標28億三立是37億那相較於民進黨政府最討厭的中天呢這個簡直是天黨之別這相差大概六七倍之多所以在蔡政府八年執政底下其實這個宣傳費用宣傳標案集中在特定媒體\n\n31\n00:11:31,415 --> 00:11:46,510\n的這個身上這已經是一個不爭的事實同時呢也被媒體觀察基金會所認證我們看一下媒體觀察基金會他在2023年所公佈的衛星新聞頻道承接政府標案觀測報告當中\n\n32\n00:11:47,831 --> 00:12:10,358\n指出還是調查過去3年108年到111年的媒體新聞頻道曾接政府標案的狀況同樣的是指出三立跟林氏是拿到最多錢的媒體我想這就是民進黨政府養媒體最好的證據我不知道為什麼你們還好意思說黨政軍退出媒體\n\n33\n00:12:11,567 --> 00:12:11,707\n主席\n\n34\n00:12:31,687 --> 00:12:38,373\n委員也應該清楚有一些假訊息的來源也是在特定的單位啊沒有特定的單位在製造假訊息啊\n\n35\n00:12:42,881 --> 00:13:08,351\n我要講的就是說如果說民進黨政府花這麼多的錢去做政策廣告做業務宣傳如果宣傳效果不錯那你就算了就情有可原可是我們來看看你們做的這些宣傳的執行成效就會發現其實效果真的很差首先想請問一下防務部部長\n\n36\n00:13:09,676 --> 00:13:11,920\n您知道有一款遊戲叫做臨時任務嗎不知道\n\n37\n00:13:19,457 --> 00:13:39,811\n法務部長您知道嗎有一款遊戲叫做線上遊戲叫做臨時任務那我告訴你這款臨時任務的線上遊戲是你法務部調查局112年度所做的當時是在LINE上面推出這樣子的一個遊戲這個是屬於一個推理遊戲\n\n38\n00:13:40,692 --> 00:14:01,240\n雖然說看起來宣傳經費花的不多42萬但是我也必須講說只能按讚對這個遊戲按讚的次數只有25個讚坦白說我今天歐委員我大概過去我沒有當委員之前我有時候貼的一個什麼照片或是人家貼文可能都不止25個讚你們花了那麼多的\n\n39\n00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,161\n施法院案例\n\n40\n00:14:23,853 --> 00:14:48,773\n我在研究司法院的媒體宣傳業務的標案的時候又發現有一家業者叫非株影業公司他在110到113年每一年他都取得數項的標案他的總金額也是高達差不多3600多萬這家公司他做的影片有放在YT上面\n\n41\n00:14:49,861 --> 00:14:52,862\n說實在話這樣的宣傳效益請問院長跟部長你們能接受嗎好謝謝委員關於這種表達的方式以及他的這個內容跟他的\n\n42\n00:15:19,947 --> 00:15:20,268\n這就是我在講的\n\n43\n00:15:37,625 --> 00:15:58,328\n本席基本上也支持政府機關的業務是可以做適當的必要的合理的宣傳但是你錢要花在刀口上而且要有宣傳效果而不是花大錢去做了一些沒有意義而且又浪費錢沒有宣傳成效的這樣的一個業務宣導這是沒有意義的所以本席非常希望\n\n44\n00:16:01,831 --> 00:16:21,646\n行政院是不是可以在兩個月之內提出有關於機關的業務宣導標案的發包執行原則總是要把一些執行原則要定出來﹖如果它成效不彰了﹖然後其他年度還繼續給這樣的公司去得標﹖去承辦﹖這基本上是不合理的\n\n45\n00:16:22,066 --> 00:16:36,327\n謝謝委員提醒我們必須強力檢討同學我要說一下最近外交部做了一支雙十國慶的影片頗獲好評我們希望這個標準可以成為各位首長去學習模仿的一個成功的典範\n\n46\n00:16:37,288 --> 00:17:04,063\n如果是這樣的情況的話當然本席是贊同的那另外我本席也要提醒我有看到很多的機關他們在編列媒體業務宣傳的經費都是為了要聘小編幫忙維運臉書我都不懂得這是在臉書貼文按讚回覆留言這不是各個機關都有新聞處公關室就可以做了為什麼還要再去委託給其他的外包公司去做這樣子的社群平台\n\n47\n00:17:05,104 --> 00:17:22,557\n委員這沒有道理現在因為進入到社群媒體時代所以這些社群平台他理論上他就是一個政府的資訊公開平台的延伸這是自己機關內部人力就可以做的事情真的不要去浪費人民大稅錢又再去委外去委員\n\n48\n00:17:23,305 --> 00:17:48,614\n委外有可能是要增加這個專業的表達另外就是公務人員在上班時間做這個事情難免會遭受到一些批評是啦卓院長您去看看您行政院的臉書有多少人次瀏覽啦有看多少按讚啦坦白說可能比您自己個人的臉書的粉絲專頁都還要少請委員都看一看行政院的臉書接下來呢我要講的就是\n\n49\n00:17:50,635 --> 00:18:12,393\n除了看到媒體宣傳預算機費之外我還觀察到了NCC的預算其實這些年大家都很關心NCC的預算編列的狀況特別是有關於訴訟費用的部分本期有看到在今年你們提出來的114年的NCC的訴訟費用裡面這次又編了801萬\n\n50\n00:18:15,049 --> 00:18:19,072\n那相對於我們想同樣是獨立機關的公平會所編列的運輸送費不好意思那個我這裡我認為翁博中沒有資格列席這次的這個會議\n\n51\n00:18:38,254 --> 00:18:54,519\n我要講的就是說相對於同樣是獨立機關的公平會你看看人家編列的預算費用每年的訴訟費用大概就是70幾萬那NCC的訴訟費用是公平會的8到10倍這樣合理嗎\n\n52\n00:18:56,425 --> 00:18:56,605\n委員徐旭\n\n53\n00:19:26,565 --> 00:19:50,088\n提告要提起行政訴訟去提告NCC委員妳在NCC是有經驗的妳也是在NCC的業務非常的複雜在我的當院NCC委員的時候沒有這麼高的訴訟費用我NCC不需要去支付這麼多的訴訟費用去委託律師然後幫NCC去做辯護\n\n54\n00:19:52,476 --> 00:20:21,476\n呃我想院長應該知道所謂的民不與官鬥這句話坦白說臺灣的業者大部分都不會願意跟機關起衝突去提告可是為什麼廣電媒體業者會這麼積極的會這麼熱衷於提起行政訴訟我自己的個人觀察第一個就是NCC所做的這些行政處分的確業者感到不服氣裡面可能有很多這個明顯重大的違法的這個疑慮所以呢他想要不服他提起訴訟\n\n55\n00:20:22,516 --> 00:20:41,236\n第2個情況就是他的勝訴率很高反正我提告了勝訴之後我的罰金也不用交因為行政法院會把NCC的懲罰處分去撤回去撤銷所以事實證明NCC在過去的表現也是敗訴率很低\n\n56\n00:20:43,721 --> 00:21:00,482\n對不起他的敗訴率還蠻高的有超過一半所以在這樣的一個情況之下當然就是有很多的行政訴訟業者會提告我還觀察到另外一個有趣的現象\n\n57\n00:21:02,145 --> 00:21:02,565\n施政委員：翁曉玲\n\n58\n00:21:20,543 --> 00:21:36,647\n那我這邊我真的認為說NCC你如果說對於自己的處分這麼有信心的話不用去請律師啦自己內部就法務處這裡裡面的人去為NCC的處分做答辯就好了真的不要浪費人民的納稅錢去做那些\n\n59\n00:21:39,068 --> 00:21:40,009\n快速的審查\n\n60\n00:21:55,399 --> 00:21:55,419\n競選審查\n\n61\n00:22:15,333 --> 00:22:36,451\n報告委員我都用一次讓機關正常運作如果沒有多一位委員我們無法運作那麼我現在要講的就是說有關於這個大法官死刑大法官做出死刑有條件核限的這個議題那麼這次大法官做出這個裁判其實也引起\n\n62\n00:22:37,432 --> 00:23:01,483\n而社會的不滿雖然說大法官沒有宣告死刑是違憲的但是他設下了很多的條件重重的關卡門檻所以實質上已經也達成了這個實質廢死的目的那麼大法官立下這些條件其實不僅在社會上在法學界裡面其實都引起很多的討論那麼我想請問院長您是否認同大法官所說的\n\n63\n00:23:01,783 --> 00:23:02,444\n您認同這樣的看法嗎?\n\n64\n00:23:14,392 --> 00:23:36,583\n我也注意到一開始他講這個是有條件的合憲他設定了一些條件那這些條件我們可以在用未來修法的過程當中讓它符合但是我不覺得這樣就把它等同於是實質的廢死我們還是有執行死刑在社會上經過剛剛委員說那個條件之後是有其必要跟空間的時候還是要執行的\n\n65\n00:23:37,179 --> 00:23:46,995\n好我想請問這個院長您知不知道這一次大法官做出死刑有條件的合憲判決有幾位大法官是贊成這項判決的\n\n66\n00:23:49,355 --> 00:24:11,460\n我知道有幾位是有不同的意見我告訴您這次的這個憲法法院的裁判大概我看起來就是有七位大法官是完全贊同這次的釋憲理由死刑有條件的核憲五位大法官分別提出了不同意見有一位大法官是完全的反對就是支持要廢死的那這樣的比數代表什麼意義\n\n67\n00:24:13,305 --> 00:24:33,548\n就是在討論的過程一定相當的意見分歧而且各有意見沒錯院長您的觀察是對的就代表這份判決其實內容有高度的爭議所以不是裡面的內容是大部分有蠻多的大法官是反對的像這樣的憲法判決坦白說真的很難服眾\n\n68\n00:24:34,349 --> 00:24:40,753\n現在在研修已經有修正一些的就是依據那個宪判例子就那個監獄刑刑法及那個刑法的這部分我們做一個研修\n\n69\n00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,121\n對不起委員的意思是\n\n70\n00:25:21,820 --> 00:25:47,189\n就是我們立法院通過了一個與大法官異見不盡相同的法律你們會依照新法你們會適用新法嗎大法官的幾個條件都明列在解釋文裡面那至於說我們如果達到這些條件當然可以做一些在修法上的討論但終究我們還是要在這個社會共同標準底下不過\n\n71\n00:25:48,770 --> 00:26:08,925\n這麼說來好了立法院我們擁有立法權我必須要講守護憲法維持合憲秩序不是只是大法官的責任我們立法者也有相同的責任我們必須要在符合憲法意旨憲政秩序和國情文化以及要考量到實務的問題去進行一個合理的修法\n\n72\n00:26:09,565 --> 00:26:33,791\n所以特別是現在這次的大法官的裁判其實未來會對於基層的司法人員會造成更沉重的更多的工作量所以我們一定會要綜合評估各方面的狀況去進行修法那麼我必須要強調的是大法官的解釋未必能夠完全拘束立法院\n\n73\n00:26:34,551 --> 00:26:58,898\n更何況是這個憲法裁判有明顯高度的爭議恐怕未來也會影響司法事務的運作所以我們在這裡我作為一個立法委員我會很負責的我一定也會更切實際和尊重民意去進行相關的修法那我也希望我們修出來的法行政機關必須要依法行政\n\n74\n00:26:59,818 --> 00:27:22,571\n好那接下來我還要順著這個議題就是因為我們剛剛已經講了這個大法官過去這些年來做的憲法判決常常也會增加小法官的工作量的問題所以呢就是在很多法官論壇裡面常常就有這個司法人員聽到看到司法人員抱怨就大法官大筆一揮就累死基層小法官跟檢察官\n\n75\n00:27:23,251 --> 00:27:50,184\n那我想司法人力過勞的問題確實是很嚴重光是這半年來其實已經發生了陸陸續續有好多件不是檢察官法官或是警察的過勞而不幸生病或死亡的新聞請問這個院長跟部長你們有提了什麼樣的改建措施嗎跟委員報告我們本部都非常注意所屬的員工尤其是檢察官書記官檢視官等等的這些的\n\n76\n00:27:51,414 --> 00:27:57,236\n部長是這樣子我也看了你們的預算書司法院的預算書法務部的預算書我現在看不出來你們有編列任何的預算是想要去改善\n\n77\n00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:16,777\n施法人力過勞問題\n\n78\n00:28:34,095 --> 00:28:34,435\n加班費的預算﹖\n\n79\n00:28:54,906 --> 00:28:55,106\n李卓人議員\n\n80\n00:29:16,503 --> 00:29:41,986\n應次去生出相關的加班經費所以這個部分的話我希望這個防務部和行政院院長你們未來都要檢討去通盤看一下大家編列加班費的狀況跟委員補充謝謝委員注意到加班費的一個問題那另外事實上我們希望能夠擴充的一些的人力比如說我們檢察官過來問題我們先有檢察官助理現在不要再講人力的部分我還要講就是你檢查事務官的\n\n81\n00:29:42,706 --> 00:29:59,922\n明明就還有缺額而且你檢查事務官外調到別的機關的情況很嚴重這個我是來不及講了我現在要講的就是說你加班費的問題是你們必須要解決的另外我要再提醒的就是我們現行的加班費的時薪計算方式是明顯有問題的\n\n82\n00:30:01,743 --> 00:30:17,173\n已經是他的計算方式我不知道是多久以來都沒有改變竟然是用我們的月薪除以240個小時然後算出那個時薪我們明明現在就是週休二日為什麼不是用8小時然後一個禮拜上5天班然後乘以這個4個禮拜\n\n83\n00:30:19,414 --> 00:30:21,736\n委員長你應該同意我的看法吧提高加班費的時薪\n\n84\n00:30:47,571 --> 00:30:48,292\n謝謝翁曉玲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n796\t1016\t翁曉玲委員質詢\n25533\t26073\t請兩位部長稍待\n56003\t78878\t謝謝 翁曉玲好是 院長好您上任至今已經超過4個月了那麼以您過去豐富的政治經驗然後曾經擔任郭立法委員然後行政院秘書長然後民進黨主席我相信您應該能夠深刻的瞭解一句話就是國家要進步不能夠走回頭路大家要團結一致向前走\n81114\t102201\t非常贊成這也是賴清德總統在選前的時候曾經說過的一段話那我也非常認同不過就是我看您這四個月來的表現卻讓我觀察到您怎麼好像像是在走20年前的陳水扁當時擔任總統朝小野大的時代那麼這個行政機關是帶頭這個行使抵抗權\n106343\t115360\t反國會搞杯葛進行權力的對抗行政機關依法行政難道不是法治國的基本原則嗎您認同嗎\n116946\t118708\t我希望卓院長您能夠真的尊重依法行政很重要的民主法治國家的原則\n142850\t170745\t如果連全國最高的中央行政機關 行政院都能夠帶頭搞對抗然後把法律踩在腳底下是法律於無物的話那麼台灣還是法治國嗎我想可能就要成為獨裁國家了絕沒有這樣的做法而且依法行政是我心中最大的一個依序院長請問您知道為什麼這次立法院要退回中央政府總預算\n172205\t197947\t我們彼此的溝通還尚待加強其實本期認為這個最主要的原因也是跟我剛剛講的一樣就是我們觀察到其實行政院尤其是您上任之後根本就是把立法院當空氣然後把國會所做的一些決議當成耳邊風那在這樣的一個情況之下立法院所做的修法和決議您完全不理會也不願意遵守\n198507\t198867\t國會改革法案\n220765\t231427\t又不遵守我們通過的NCC組織法要求現任的NCC委員不可以再繼續留任仍然執意讓翁伯中副主委繼續代理主委\n232359\t256673\t同時你也不依據新修正過的原住民進法補償條例去編足足夠的補償經費你也不甩立法院所做的各項決議包含像是調高公糧收購價格、調高健保點值以及電價動漲的決議還有要解除開放赴大陸的旅行團\n258091\t269430\t那麼簡單來說就是行政院你該依法辦理的你不辦理你該編列預算的你不去編列預算這種態度在我們看來就是藐視立法權\n272093\t299640\t是名譽無誤您口口聲聲說您要尋求溝通協調但是在我們的看到您現在的作為其實就是擺爛就是搞對立反正這個你們不重編這個行政院的預算我們看起來立法院也耐你們也無法這個對你們有什麼樣的其他的一個作為這樣子一個情況之下其實我真的感到非常的感慨\n302140\t328569\t委員對我們的誤會頗深我如果當不尊重不尊重立法院的話那今天我們的對話我站在這裡好好的聆聽就是完全的尊重立法院執行刑事法我們看到就是院長您到底有沒有尊重我們立法院所通過修正的法律我剛剛所講的那些例子有哪一個是錯的有哪一個是假訊息不是這都是\n330169\t353232\t立法院執權刑事法就是最近很多委員在講的 院紀分立行政立法司法監察的院紀分立 我們要嚴守是的 你的院紀分立可是必須要尊重的我只有三個原則 第一個就是讓機關正常運作第二個是快速審查第三個我會依法行政立法院所通過的NCC組織法\n353652\t362960\t為的是讓機關能夠正常運作也登請大院能夠審查人事權之後我們一定依法行政我們無非就是希望你們能夠重新編列合理的預算能夠考察民意體諒民間的疾苦不要把錢\n382856\t383837\t委員應該知道原因為什麼會這麼高\n400843\t419482\t委員知道預算為什麼會這麼高對我沒有請您回答我現在講就是說如果行政院你繼續把立法院當空氣那麼立法院也不會對你客氣最後呢國家搞的這個烏煙瘴氣民眾一肚子氣坦白說賴政府也占不到便宜喔\n420043\t420583\t中央政府公務預算編列約15億元\n442754\t461535\t的業務宣導費用比去年113年的法定預算多了9億增高的幅度是65%那麼如果說我們再把其他的營業非營業基金還有公務預算的所有的媒體宣傳經費加起來已經超過了27億\n464352\t492989\t在中間我們仔細的去調查研究也發現有5個部會機關每年編的宣傳費用高達上億這包含內政部衛福部經濟部勞動部和農業部這5個部會機關每年都編了上億元的媒體宣傳費用如果說把這5個機關的媒體宣傳費用加起來是佔整個中央政府的業務的宣傳費用的一半以上\n496317\t516935\t請問 院長我們的政府有必要去花這麼多的錢做宣傳廣告嗎政府必要把自己國家政府的政策充分清楚地向人民說清楚所以你們自己說不清楚非得要請媒體來幫你們說清楚我們是請媒體轉述政府政策的說明自己一定要說清楚好 我要再講就是說其實呢 這個國際\n519237\t520337\t臺灣的新聞自由度是有進步﹚可是報告當中也指出﹚\n541783\t543344\t請問院長您知道為什麼我們的民眾不相信媒體\n570064\t586920\t委員應該跟我們一起面對假訊息之何來我們受到的假訊息的攻擊從何而來最多我們應該找到那個源頭如果委員能夠跟我們一起的話就會知道問題之所在我要告訴你我確實是找到了這個假新聞傳播的源頭\n587941\t606098\t我必須告訴您以我自己是傳媒專業我也教這個相關傳播法律我發現這些假訊息的來源還有民眾為什麼不相信媒體最大的原因就是因為臺灣的政媒不分媒體政治化的情形非常嚴重尤其是民進黨政府這8年來\n607259\t628239\t政府收買媒體大量的以發包業務宣傳廣告標案形式與新聞媒體進行錢權交易的問題非常嚴重媒體為了取得政府的標案不敢監督政府反而是討好政府為政府插支抹粉去掩護他們的錯誤政策和弊案\n628759\t629119\t執政委員：翁曉玲\n647069\t670348\t媒體最重要的原因那我也認為政府應該要負最大的責任我們來看看民進黨政府的這些這8年來到底這個業務宣傳廣告費用是給了哪些媒體那麼我們也自己做了一些調查也發現這8年來拿到媒體拿到政府標案最多的媒體就是民視三立\n671633\t689910\t明氏得標28億三立是37億那相較於民進黨政府最討厭的中天呢這個簡直是天黨之別這相差大概六七倍之多所以在蔡政府八年執政底下其實這個宣傳費用宣傳標案集中在特定媒體\n691415\t706510\t的這個身上這已經是一個不爭的事實同時呢也被媒體觀察基金會所認證我們看一下媒體觀察基金會他在2023年所公佈的衛星新聞頻道承接政府標案觀測報告當中\n707831\t730358\t指出還是調查過去3年108年到111年的媒體新聞頻道曾接政府標案的狀況同樣的是指出三立跟林氏是拿到最多錢的媒體我想這就是民進黨政府養媒體最好的證據我不知道為什麼你們還好意思說黨政軍退出媒體\n731567\t731707\t主席\n751687\t758373\t委員也應該清楚 有一些假訊息的來源也是在特定的單位啊沒有特定的單位在製造假訊息啊\n762881\t788351\t我要講的就是說如果說民進黨政府花這麼多的錢去做政策廣告做業務宣傳如果宣傳效果不錯那你就算了就情有可原可是我們來看看你們做的這些宣傳的執行成效就會發現其實效果真的很差首先想請問一下防務部部長\n789676\t791920\t您知道有一款遊戲叫做臨時任務嗎不知道\n799457\t819811\t法務部長 您知道嗎 有一款遊戲叫做 線上遊戲叫做臨時任務那我告訴你 這款臨時任務的線上遊戲 是你法務部調查局 112年度所做的當時是在LINE上面推出這樣子的一個遊戲 這個是屬於一個推理遊戲\n820692\t841240\t雖然說看起來宣傳經費花的不多42萬但是我也必須講說只能按讚對這個遊戲按讚的次數只有25個讚坦白說我今天歐委員我大概過去我沒有當委員之前我有時候貼的一個什麼照片或是人家貼文可能都不止25個讚你們花了那麼多的\n842040\t843161\t施法院案例\n863853\t888773\t我在研究司法院的媒體宣傳業務的標案的時候又發現有一家業者叫非株影業公司他在110到113年每一年他都取得數項的標案他的總金額也是高達差不多3600多萬這家公司他做的影片有放在YT上面\n889861\t892862\t說實在話這樣的宣傳效益請問院長跟部長你們能接受嗎好謝謝委員關於這種表達的方式以及他的這個內容跟他的\n919947\t920268\t這就是我在講的\n937625\t958328\t本席基本上也支持政府機關的業務是可以做適當的必要的合理的宣傳但是你錢要花在刀口上而且要有宣傳效果而不是花大錢去做了一些沒有意義而且又浪費錢沒有宣傳成效的這樣的一個業務宣導這是沒有意義的所以本席非常希望\n961831\t981646\t行政院是不是可以在兩個月之內提出有關於機關的業務宣導標案的發包執行原則總是要把一些執行原則要定出來﹖如果它成效不彰了﹖然後其他年度還繼續給這樣的公司去得標﹖去承辦﹖這基本上是不合理的\n982066\t996327\t謝謝委員提醒我們必須強力檢討同學我要說一下最近外交部做了一支雙十國慶的影片 頗獲好評我們希望這個標準可以成為各位首長去學習模仿的一個成功的典範\n997288\t1024063\t如果是這樣的情況的話當然本席是贊同的那另外我本席也要提醒我有看到很多的機關他們在編列媒體業務宣傳的經費都是為了要聘小編幫忙維運臉書我都不懂得這是在臉書貼文按讚回覆留言這不是各個機關都有新聞處公關室就可以做了為什麼還要再去委託給其他的外包公司去做這樣子的社群平台\n1025104\t1042557\t委員這沒有道理現在因為進入到社群媒體時代所以這些社群平台他理論上他就是一個政府的資訊公開平台的延伸這是自己機關內部人力就可以做的事情真的不要去浪費人民大稅錢又再去委外去委員\n1043305\t1068614\t委外有可能是要增加這個專業的表達另外就是公務人員在上班時間做這個事情難免會遭受到一些批評是啦卓院長您去看看您行政院的臉書有多少人次瀏覽啦有看多少按讚啦坦白說可能比您自己個人的臉書的粉絲專頁都還要少請委員都看一看行政院的臉書接下來呢我要講的就是\n1070635\t1092393\t除了看到媒體宣傳預算機費之外我還觀察到了NCC的預算其實這些年大家都很關心NCC的預算編列的狀況特別是有關於訴訟費用的部分本期有看到在今年你們提出來的114年的NCC的訴訟費用裡面這次又編了801萬\n1095049\t1099072\t那相對於我們想同樣是獨立機關的公平會所編列的運輸送費不好意思那個我這裡我認為翁博中沒有資格列席這次的這個會議\n1118254\t1134519\t我要講的就是說相對於同樣是獨立機關的公平會你看看人家編列的預算費用每年的訴訟費用大概就是70幾萬那NCC的訴訟費用是公平會的8到10倍這樣合理嗎\n1136425\t1136605\t委員徐旭\n1166565\t1190088\t提告要提起行政訴訟去提告NCC委員妳在NCC是有經驗的 妳也是在NCC的業務非常的複雜在我的當院NCC委員的時候沒有這麼高的訴訟費用我NCC不需要去支付這麼多的訴訟費用去委託律師然後幫NCC去做辯護\n1192476\t1221476\t呃我想院長應該知道所謂的民不與官鬥這句話坦白說臺灣的業者大部分都不會願意跟機關起衝突去提告可是為什麼廣電媒體業者會這麼積極的會這麼熱衷於提起行政訴訟我自己的個人觀察第一個就是NCC所做的這些行政處分的確業者感到不服氣裡面可能有很多這個明顯重大的違法的這個疑慮所以呢他想要不服他提起訴訟\n1222516\t1241236\t第2個情況就是他的勝訴率很高反正我提告了勝訴之後我的罰金也不用交因為行政法院會把NCC的懲罰處分去撤回去撤銷所以事實證明NCC在過去的表現也是敗訴率很低\n1243721\t1260482\t對不起他的敗訴率還蠻高的有超過一半所以在這樣的一個情況之下當然就是有很多的行政訴訟業者會提告我還觀察到另外一個有趣的現象\n1262145\t1262565\t施政委員：翁曉玲\n1280543\t1296647\t那我這邊我真的認為說NCC你如果說對於自己的處分這麼有信心的話不用去請律師啦自己內部就法務處這裡裡面的人去為NCC的處分做答辯就好了真的不要浪費人民的納稅錢去做那些\n1299068\t1300009\t快速的審查\n1315399\t1315419\t競選審查\n1335333\t1356451\t報告委員我都用一次讓機關正常運作如果沒有多一位委員我們無法運作那麼我現在要講的就是說有關於這個大法官死刑大法官做出死刑有條件核限的這個議題那麼這次大法官做出這個裁判其實也引起\n1357432\t1381483\t而社會的不滿雖然說大法官沒有宣告死刑是違憲的但是他設下了很多的條件重重的關卡門檻所以實質上已經也達成了這個實質廢死的目的那麼大法官立下這些條件其實不僅在社會上在法學界裡面其實都引起很多的討論那麼我想請問院長您是否認同大法官所說的\n1381783\t1382444\t您認同這樣的看法嗎?\n1394392\t1416583\t我也注意到一開始他講這個是有條件的合憲他設定了一些條件那這些條件我們可以在用未來修法的過程當中讓它符合但是我不覺得這樣就把它等同於是實質的廢死我們還是有執行死刑在社會上經過剛剛委員說那個條件之後是有其必要跟空間的時候還是要執行的\n1417179\t1426995\t好 我想請問這個院長您知不知道這一次大法官做出死刑有條件的合憲判決有幾位大法官是贊成這項判決的\n1429355\t1451460\t我知道有幾位是有不同的意見我告訴您這次的這個憲法法院的裁判大概我看起來就是有七位大法官是完全贊同這次的釋憲理由死刑有條件的核憲五位大法官分別提出了不同意見有一位大法官是完全的反對就是支持要廢死的那這樣的比數代表什麼意義\n1453305\t1473548\t就是在討論的過程一定相當的意見分歧而且各有意見沒錯 院長您的觀察是對的就代表這份判決其實內容有高度的爭議所以不是裡面的內容是大部分有蠻多的大法官是反對的像這樣的憲法判決坦白說真的很難服眾\n1474349\t1480753\t現在在研修已經有修正一些的就是依據那個宪判例子就那個監獄刑刑法及那個刑法的這部分我們做一個研修\n1497160\t1498121\t對不起委員的意思是\n1521820\t1547189\t就是我們立法院通過了一個與大法官異見不盡相同的法律你們會依照新法你們會適用新法嗎大法官的幾個條件都明列在解釋文裡面那至於說我們如果達到這些條件當然可以做一些在修法上的討論但終究我們還是要在這個社會共同標準底下不過\n1548770\t1568925\t這麼說來好了立法院我們擁有立法權我必須要講守護憲法維持合憲秩序不是只是大法官的責任我們立法者也有相同的責任我們必須要在符合憲法意旨憲政秩序和國情文化以及要考量到實務的問題去進行一個合理的修法\n1569565\t1593791\t所以特別是現在這次的大法官的裁判其實未來會對於基層的司法人員會造成更沉重的更多的工作量所以我們一定會要綜合評估各方面的狀況去進行修法那麼我必須要強調的是大法官的解釋未必能夠完全拘束立法院\n1594551\t1618898\t更何況是這個憲法裁判有明顯高度的爭議恐怕未來也會影響司法事務的運作所以我們在這裡我作為一個立法委員我會很負責的我一定也會更切實際和尊重民意去進行相關的修法那我也希望我們修出來的法行政機關必須要依法行政\n1619818\t1642571\t好那接下來我還要順著這個議題就是因為我們剛剛已經講了這個大法官過去這些年來做的憲法判決常常也會增加小法官的工作量的問題所以呢就是在很多法官論壇裡面常常就有這個司法人員聽到看到司法人員抱怨就大法官大筆一揮就累死基層小法官跟檢察官\n1643251\t1670184\t那我想司法人力過勞的問題確實是很嚴重光是這半年來其實已經發生了陸陸續續有好多件不是檢察官法官或是警察的過勞而不幸生病或死亡的新聞請問這個院長跟部長你們有提了什麼樣的改建措施嗎跟委員報告我們本部都非常注意所屬的員工尤其是檢察官書記官檢視官等等的這些的\n1671414\t1677236\t部長是這樣子 我也看了你們的預算書 司法院的預算書 法務部的預算書我現在看不出來你們有編列任何的預算是想要去改善\n1696236\t1696777\t施法人力過勞問題\n1714095\t1714435\t加班費的預算﹖\n1734906\t1735106\t李卓人議員\n1756503\t1781986\t應次去生出相關的加班經費所以這個部分的話我希望這個防務部和行政院院長你們未來都要檢討去通盤看一下大家編列加班費的狀況跟委員補充謝謝委員注意到加班費的一個問題那另外事實上我們希望能夠擴充的一些的人力比如說我們檢察官過來問題我們先有檢察官助理現在不要再講人力的部分我還要講就是你檢查事務官的\n1782706\t1799922\t明明就還有缺額而且你檢查事務官外調到別的機關的情況很嚴重這個我是來不及講了我現在要講的就是說你加班費的問題是你們必須要解決的另外我要再提醒的就是我們現行的加班費的時薪計算方式是明顯有問題的\n1801743\t1817173\t已經是他的計算方式我不知道是多久以來都沒有改變竟然是用我們的月薪除以240個小時然後算出那個時薪我們明明現在就是週休二日為什麼不是用8小時然後一個禮拜上5天班然後乘以這個4個禮拜\n1819414\t1821736\t委員長 你應該同意我的看法吧提高加班費的時薪\n1847571\t1848292\t謝謝翁曉玲委員\n","txt":"翁曉玲委員質詢\n請兩位部長稍待\n謝謝 翁曉玲好是 院長好您上任至今已經超過4個月了那麼以您過去豐富的政治經驗然後曾經擔任郭立法委員然後行政院秘書長然後民進黨主席我相信您應該能夠深刻的瞭解一句話就是國家要進步不能夠走回頭路大家要團結一致向前走\n非常贊成這也是賴清德總統在選前的時候曾經說過的一段話那我也非常認同不過就是我看您這四個月來的表現卻讓我觀察到您怎麼好像像是在走20年前的陳水扁當時擔任總統朝小野大的時代那麼這個行政機關是帶頭這個行使抵抗權\n反國會搞杯葛進行權力的對抗行政機關依法行政難道不是法治國的基本原則嗎您認同嗎\n我希望卓院長您能夠真的尊重依法行政很重要的民主法治國家的原則\n如果連全國最高的中央行政機關 行政院都能夠帶頭搞對抗然後把法律踩在腳底下是法律於無物的話那麼台灣還是法治國嗎我想可能就要成為獨裁國家了絕沒有這樣的做法而且依法行政是我心中最大的一個依序院長請問您知道為什麼這次立法院要退回中央政府總預算\n我們彼此的溝通還尚待加強其實本期認為這個最主要的原因也是跟我剛剛講的一樣就是我們觀察到其實行政院尤其是您上任之後根本就是把立法院當空氣然後把國會所做的一些決議當成耳邊風那在這樣的一個情況之下立法院所做的修法和決議您完全不理會也不願意遵守\n國會改革法案\n又不遵守我們通過的NCC組織法要求現任的NCC委員不可以再繼續留任仍然執意讓翁伯中副主委繼續代理主委\n同時你也不依據新修正過的原住民進法補償條例去編足足夠的補償經費你也不甩立法院所做的各項決議包含像是調高公糧收購價格、調高健保點值以及電價動漲的決議還有要解除開放赴大陸的旅行團\n那麼簡單來說就是行政院你該依法辦理的你不辦理你該編列預算的你不去編列預算這種態度在我們看來就是藐視立法權\n是名譽無誤您口口聲聲說您要尋求溝通協調但是在我們的看到您現在的作為其實就是擺爛就是搞對立反正這個你們不重編這個行政院的預算我們看起來立法院也耐你們也無法這個對你們有什麼樣的其他的一個作為這樣子一個情況之下其實我真的感到非常的感慨\n委員對我們的誤會頗深我如果當不尊重不尊重立法院的話那今天我們的對話我站在這裡好好的聆聽就是完全的尊重立法院執行刑事法我們看到就是院長您到底有沒有尊重我們立法院所通過修正的法律我剛剛所講的那些例子有哪一個是錯的有哪一個是假訊息不是這都是\n立法院執權刑事法就是最近很多委員在講的 院紀分立行政立法司法監察的院紀分立 我們要嚴守是的 你的院紀分立可是必須要尊重的我只有三個原則 第一個就是讓機關正常運作第二個是快速審查第三個我會依法行政立法院所通過的NCC組織法\n為的是讓機關能夠正常運作也登請大院能夠審查人事權之後我們一定依法行政我們無非就是希望你們能夠重新編列合理的預算能夠考察民意體諒民間的疾苦不要把錢\n委員應該知道原因為什麼會這麼高\n委員知道預算為什麼會這麼高對我沒有請您回答我現在講就是說如果行政院你繼續把立法院當空氣那麼立法院也不會對你客氣最後呢國家搞的這個烏煙瘴氣民眾一肚子氣坦白說賴政府也占不到便宜喔\n中央政府公務預算編列約15億元\n的業務宣導費用比去年113年的法定預算多了9億增高的幅度是65%那麼如果說我們再把其他的營業非營業基金還有公務預算的所有的媒體宣傳經費加起來已經超過了27億\n在中間我們仔細的去調查研究也發現有5個部會機關每年編的宣傳費用高達上億這包含內政部衛福部經濟部勞動部和農業部這5個部會機關每年都編了上億元的媒體宣傳費用如果說把這5個機關的媒體宣傳費用加起來是佔整個中央政府的業務的宣傳費用的一半以上\n請問 院長我們的政府有必要去花這麼多的錢做宣傳廣告嗎政府必要把自己國家政府的政策充分清楚地向人民說清楚所以你們自己說不清楚非得要請媒體來幫你們說清楚我們是請媒體轉述政府政策的說明自己一定要說清楚好 我要再講就是說其實呢 這個國際\n臺灣的新聞自由度是有進步﹚可是報告當中也指出﹚\n請問院長您知道為什麼我們的民眾不相信媒體\n委員應該跟我們一起面對假訊息之何來我們受到的假訊息的攻擊從何而來最多我們應該找到那個源頭如果委員能夠跟我們一起的話就會知道問題之所在我要告訴你我確實是找到了這個假新聞傳播的源頭\n我必須告訴您以我自己是傳媒專業我也教這個相關傳播法律我發現這些假訊息的來源還有民眾為什麼不相信媒體最大的原因就是因為臺灣的政媒不分媒體政治化的情形非常嚴重尤其是民進黨政府這8年來\n政府收買媒體大量的以發包業務宣傳廣告標案形式與新聞媒體進行錢權交易的問題非常嚴重媒體為了取得政府的標案不敢監督政府反而是討好政府為政府插支抹粉去掩護他們的錯誤政策和弊案\n執政委員：翁曉玲\n媒體最重要的原因那我也認為政府應該要負最大的責任我們來看看民進黨政府的這些這8年來到底這個業務宣傳廣告費用是給了哪些媒體那麼我們也自己做了一些調查也發現這8年來拿到媒體拿到政府標案最多的媒體就是民視三立\n明氏得標28億三立是37億那相較於民進黨政府最討厭的中天呢這個簡直是天黨之別這相差大概六七倍之多所以在蔡政府八年執政底下其實這個宣傳費用宣傳標案集中在特定媒體\n的這個身上這已經是一個不爭的事實同時呢也被媒體觀察基金會所認證我們看一下媒體觀察基金會他在2023年所公佈的衛星新聞頻道承接政府標案觀測報告當中\n指出還是調查過去3年108年到111年的媒體新聞頻道曾接政府標案的狀況同樣的是指出三立跟林氏是拿到最多錢的媒體我想這就是民進黨政府養媒體最好的證據我不知道為什麼你們還好意思說黨政軍退出媒體\n主席\n委員也應該清楚 有一些假訊息的來源也是在特定的單位啊沒有特定的單位在製造假訊息啊\n我要講的就是說如果說民進黨政府花這麼多的錢去做政策廣告做業務宣傳如果宣傳效果不錯那你就算了就情有可原可是我們來看看你們做的這些宣傳的執行成效就會發現其實效果真的很差首先想請問一下防務部部長\n您知道有一款遊戲叫做臨時任務嗎不知道\n法務部長 您知道嗎 有一款遊戲叫做 線上遊戲叫做臨時任務那我告訴你 這款臨時任務的線上遊戲 是你法務部調查局 112年度所做的當時是在LINE上面推出這樣子的一個遊戲 這個是屬於一個推理遊戲\n雖然說看起來宣傳經費花的不多42萬但是我也必須講說只能按讚對這個遊戲按讚的次數只有25個讚坦白說我今天歐委員我大概過去我沒有當委員之前我有時候貼的一個什麼照片或是人家貼文可能都不止25個讚你們花了那麼多的\n施法院案例\n我在研究司法院的媒體宣傳業務的標案的時候又發現有一家業者叫非株影業公司他在110到113年每一年他都取得數項的標案他的總金額也是高達差不多3600多萬這家公司他做的影片有放在YT上面\n說實在話這樣的宣傳效益請問院長跟部長你們能接受嗎好謝謝委員關於這種表達的方式以及他的這個內容跟他的\n這就是我在講的\n本席基本上也支持政府機關的業務是可以做適當的必要的合理的宣傳但是你錢要花在刀口上而且要有宣傳效果而不是花大錢去做了一些沒有意義而且又浪費錢沒有宣傳成效的這樣的一個業務宣導這是沒有意義的所以本席非常希望\n行政院是不是可以在兩個月之內提出有關於機關的業務宣導標案的發包執行原則總是要把一些執行原則要定出來﹖如果它成效不彰了﹖然後其他年度還繼續給這樣的公司去得標﹖去承辦﹖這基本上是不合理的\n謝謝委員提醒我們必須強力檢討同學我要說一下最近外交部做了一支雙十國慶的影片 頗獲好評我們希望這個標準可以成為各位首長去學習模仿的一個成功的典範\n如果是這樣的情況的話當然本席是贊同的那另外我本席也要提醒我有看到很多的機關他們在編列媒體業務宣傳的經費都是為了要聘小編幫忙維運臉書我都不懂得這是在臉書貼文按讚回覆留言這不是各個機關都有新聞處公關室就可以做了為什麼還要再去委託給其他的外包公司去做這樣子的社群平台\n委員這沒有道理現在因為進入到社群媒體時代所以這些社群平台他理論上他就是一個政府的資訊公開平台的延伸這是自己機關內部人力就可以做的事情真的不要去浪費人民大稅錢又再去委外去委員\n委外有可能是要增加這個專業的表達另外就是公務人員在上班時間做這個事情難免會遭受到一些批評是啦卓院長您去看看您行政院的臉書有多少人次瀏覽啦有看多少按讚啦坦白說可能比您自己個人的臉書的粉絲專頁都還要少請委員都看一看行政院的臉書接下來呢我要講的就是\n除了看到媒體宣傳預算機費之外我還觀察到了NCC的預算其實這些年大家都很關心NCC的預算編列的狀況特別是有關於訴訟費用的部分本期有看到在今年你們提出來的114年的NCC的訴訟費用裡面這次又編了801萬\n那相對於我們想同樣是獨立機關的公平會所編列的運輸送費不好意思那個我這裡我認為翁博中沒有資格列席這次的這個會議\n我要講的就是說相對於同樣是獨立機關的公平會你看看人家編列的預算費用每年的訴訟費用大概就是70幾萬那NCC的訴訟費用是公平會的8到10倍這樣合理嗎\n委員徐旭\n提告要提起行政訴訟去提告NCC委員妳在NCC是有經驗的 妳也是在NCC的業務非常的複雜在我的當院NCC委員的時候沒有這麼高的訴訟費用我NCC不需要去支付這麼多的訴訟費用去委託律師然後幫NCC去做辯護\n呃我想院長應該知道所謂的民不與官鬥這句話坦白說臺灣的業者大部分都不會願意跟機關起衝突去提告可是為什麼廣電媒體業者會這麼積極的會這麼熱衷於提起行政訴訟我自己的個人觀察第一個就是NCC所做的這些行政處分的確業者感到不服氣裡面可能有很多這個明顯重大的違法的這個疑慮所以呢他想要不服他提起訴訟\n第2個情況就是他的勝訴率很高反正我提告了勝訴之後我的罰金也不用交因為行政法院會把NCC的懲罰處分去撤回去撤銷所以事實證明NCC在過去的表現也是敗訴率很低\n對不起他的敗訴率還蠻高的有超過一半所以在這樣的一個情況之下當然就是有很多的行政訴訟業者會提告我還觀察到另外一個有趣的現象\n施政委員：翁曉玲\n那我這邊我真的認為說NCC你如果說對於自己的處分這麼有信心的話不用去請律師啦自己內部就法務處這裡裡面的人去為NCC的處分做答辯就好了真的不要浪費人民的納稅錢去做那些\n快速的審查\n競選審查\n報告委員我都用一次讓機關正常運作如果沒有多一位委員我們無法運作那麼我現在要講的就是說有關於這個大法官死刑大法官做出死刑有條件核限的這個議題那麼這次大法官做出這個裁判其實也引起\n而社會的不滿雖然說大法官沒有宣告死刑是違憲的但是他設下了很多的條件重重的關卡門檻所以實質上已經也達成了這個實質廢死的目的那麼大法官立下這些條件其實不僅在社會上在法學界裡面其實都引起很多的討論那麼我想請問院長您是否認同大法官所說的\n您認同這樣的看法嗎?\n我也注意到一開始他講這個是有條件的合憲他設定了一些條件那這些條件我們可以在用未來修法的過程當中讓它符合但是我不覺得這樣就把它等同於是實質的廢死我們還是有執行死刑在社會上經過剛剛委員說那個條件之後是有其必要跟空間的時候還是要執行的\n好 我想請問這個院長您知不知道這一次大法官做出死刑有條件的合憲判決有幾位大法官是贊成這項判決的\n我知道有幾位是有不同的意見我告訴您這次的這個憲法法院的裁判大概我看起來就是有七位大法官是完全贊同這次的釋憲理由死刑有條件的核憲五位大法官分別提出了不同意見有一位大法官是完全的反對就是支持要廢死的那這樣的比數代表什麼意義\n就是在討論的過程一定相當的意見分歧而且各有意見沒錯 院長您的觀察是對的就代表這份判決其實內容有高度的爭議所以不是裡面的內容是大部分有蠻多的大法官是反對的像這樣的憲法判決坦白說真的很難服眾\n現在在研修已經有修正一些的就是依據那個宪判例子就那個監獄刑刑法及那個刑法的這部分我們做一個研修\n對不起委員的意思是\n就是我們立法院通過了一個與大法官異見不盡相同的法律你們會依照新法你們會適用新法嗎大法官的幾個條件都明列在解釋文裡面那至於說我們如果達到這些條件當然可以做一些在修法上的討論但終究我們還是要在這個社會共同標準底下不過\n這麼說來好了立法院我們擁有立法權我必須要講守護憲法維持合憲秩序不是只是大法官的責任我們立法者也有相同的責任我們必須要在符合憲法意旨憲政秩序和國情文化以及要考量到實務的問題去進行一個合理的修法\n所以特別是現在這次的大法官的裁判其實未來會對於基層的司法人員會造成更沉重的更多的工作量所以我們一定會要綜合評估各方面的狀況去進行修法那麼我必須要強調的是大法官的解釋未必能夠完全拘束立法院\n更何況是這個憲法裁判有明顯高度的爭議恐怕未來也會影響司法事務的運作所以我們在這裡我作為一個立法委員我會很負責的我一定也會更切實際和尊重民意去進行相關的修法那我也希望我們修出來的法行政機關必須要依法行政\n好那接下來我還要順著這個議題就是因為我們剛剛已經講了這個大法官過去這些年來做的憲法判決常常也會增加小法官的工作量的問題所以呢就是在很多法官論壇裡面常常就有這個司法人員聽到看到司法人員抱怨就大法官大筆一揮就累死基層小法官跟檢察官\n那我想司法人力過勞的問題確實是很嚴重光是這半年來其實已經發生了陸陸續續有好多件不是檢察官法官或是警察的過勞而不幸生病或死亡的新聞請問這個院長跟部長你們有提了什麼樣的改建措施嗎跟委員報告我們本部都非常注意所屬的員工尤其是檢察官書記官檢視官等等的這些的\n部長是這樣子 我也看了你們的預算書 司法院的預算書 法務部的預算書我現在看不出來你們有編列任何的預算是想要去改善\n施法人力過勞問題\n加班費的預算﹖\n李卓人議員\n應次去生出相關的加班經費所以這個部分的話我希望這個防務部和行政院院長你們未來都要檢討去通盤看一下大家編列加班費的狀況跟委員補充謝謝委員注意到加班費的一個問題那另外事實上我們希望能夠擴充的一些的人力比如說我們檢察官過來問題我們先有檢察官助理現在不要再講人力的部分我還要講就是你檢查事務官的\n明明就還有缺額而且你檢查事務官外調到別的機關的情況很嚴重這個我是來不及講了我現在要講的就是說你加班費的問題是你們必須要解決的另外我要再提醒的就是我們現行的加班費的時薪計算方式是明顯有問題的\n已經是他的計算方式我不知道是多久以來都沒有改變竟然是用我們的月薪除以240個小時然後算出那個時薪我們明明現在就是週休二日為什麼不是用8小時然後一個禮拜上5天班然後乘以這個4個禮拜\n委員長 你應該同意我的看法吧提高加班費的時薪\n謝謝翁曉玲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.796 --> 00:01.016\n翁曉玲委員質詢\n\n00:25.533 --> 00:26.073\n請兩位部長稍待\n\n00:56.003 --> 01:18.878\n謝謝翁曉玲好是院長好您上任至今已經超過4個月了那麼以您過去豐富的政治經驗然後曾經擔任郭立法委員然後行政院秘書長然後民進黨主席我相信您應該能夠深刻的瞭解一句話就是國家要進步不能夠走回頭路大家要團結一致向前走\n\n01:21.114 --> 01:42.201\n非常贊成這也是賴清德總統在選前的時候曾經說過的一段話那我也非常認同不過就是我看您這四個月來的表現卻讓我觀察到您怎麼好像像是在走20年前的陳水扁當時擔任總統朝小野大的時代那麼這個行政機關是帶頭這個行使抵抗權\n\n01:46.343 --> 01:55.360\n反國會搞杯葛進行權力的對抗行政機關依法行政難道不是法治國的基本原則嗎您認同嗎\n\n01:56.946 --> 01:58.708\n我希望卓院長您能夠真的尊重依法行政很重要的民主法治國家的原則\n\n02:22.850 --> 02:50.745\n如果連全國最高的中央行政機關行政院都能夠帶頭搞對抗然後把法律踩在腳底下是法律於無物的話那麼台灣還是法治國嗎我想可能就要成為獨裁國家了絕沒有這樣的做法而且依法行政是我心中最大的一個依序院長請問您知道為什麼這次立法院要退回中央政府總預算\n\n02:52.205 --> 03:17.947\n我們彼此的溝通還尚待加強其實本期認為這個最主要的原因也是跟我剛剛講的一樣就是我們觀察到其實行政院尤其是您上任之後根本就是把立法院當空氣然後把國會所做的一些決議當成耳邊風那在這樣的一個情況之下立法院所做的修法和決議您完全不理會也不願意遵守\n\n03:18.507 --> 03:18.867\n國會改革法案\n\n03:40.765 --> 03:51.427\n又不遵守我們通過的NCC組織法要求現任的NCC委員不可以再繼續留任仍然執意讓翁伯中副主委繼續代理主委\n\n03:52.359 --> 04:16.673\n同時你也不依據新修正過的原住民進法補償條例去編足足夠的補償經費你也不甩立法院所做的各項決議包含像是調高公糧收購價格、調高健保點值以及電價動漲的決議還有要解除開放赴大陸的旅行團\n\n04:18.091 --> 04:29.430\n那麼簡單來說就是行政院你該依法辦理的你不辦理你該編列預算的你不去編列預算這種態度在我們看來就是藐視立法權\n\n04:32.093 --> 04:59.640\n是名譽無誤您口口聲聲說您要尋求溝通協調但是在我們的看到您現在的作為其實就是擺爛就是搞對立反正這個你們不重編這個行政院的預算我們看起來立法院也耐你們也無法這個對你們有什麼樣的其他的一個作為這樣子一個情況之下其實我真的感到非常的感慨\n\n05:02.140 --> 05:28.569\n委員對我們的誤會頗深我如果當不尊重不尊重立法院的話那今天我們的對話我站在這裡好好的聆聽就是完全的尊重立法院執行刑事法我們看到就是院長您到底有沒有尊重我們立法院所通過修正的法律我剛剛所講的那些例子有哪一個是錯的有哪一個是假訊息不是這都是\n\n05:30.169 --> 05:53.232\n立法院執權刑事法就是最近很多委員在講的院紀分立行政立法司法監察的院紀分立我們要嚴守是的你的院紀分立可是必須要尊重的我只有三個原則第一個就是讓機關正常運作第二個是快速審查第三個我會依法行政立法院所通過的NCC組織法\n\n05:53.652 --> 06:02.960\n為的是讓機關能夠正常運作也登請大院能夠審查人事權之後我們一定依法行政我們無非就是希望你們能夠重新編列合理的預算能夠考察民意體諒民間的疾苦不要把錢\n\n06:22.856 --> 06:23.837\n委員應該知道原因為什麼會這麼高\n\n06:40.843 --> 06:59.482\n委員知道預算為什麼會這麼高對我沒有請您回答我現在講就是說如果行政院你繼續把立法院當空氣那麼立法院也不會對你客氣最後呢國家搞的這個烏煙瘴氣民眾一肚子氣坦白說賴政府也占不到便宜喔\n\n07:00.043 --> 07:00.583\n中央政府公務預算編列約15億元\n\n07:22.754 --> 07:41.535\n的業務宣導費用比去年113年的法定預算多了9億增高的幅度是65%那麼如果說我們再把其他的營業非營業基金還有公務預算的所有的媒體宣傳經費加起來已經超過了27億\n\n07:44.352 --> 08:12.989\n在中間我們仔細的去調查研究也發現有5個部會機關每年編的宣傳費用高達上億這包含內政部衛福部經濟部勞動部和農業部這5個部會機關每年都編了上億元的媒體宣傳費用如果說把這5個機關的媒體宣傳費用加起來是佔整個中央政府的業務的宣傳費用的一半以上\n\n08:16.317 --> 08:36.935\n請問院長我們的政府有必要去花這麼多的錢做宣傳廣告嗎政府必要把自己國家政府的政策充分清楚地向人民說清楚所以你們自己說不清楚非得要請媒體來幫你們說清楚我們是請媒體轉述政府政策的說明自己一定要說清楚好我要再講就是說其實呢這個國際\n\n08:39.237 --> 08:40.337\n臺灣的新聞自由度是有進步﹚可是報告當中也指出﹚\n\n09:01.783 --> 09:03.344\n請問院長您知道為什麼我們的民眾不相信媒體\n\n09:30.064 --> 09:46.920\n委員應該跟我們一起面對假訊息之何來我們受到的假訊息的攻擊從何而來最多我們應該找到那個源頭如果委員能夠跟我們一起的話就會知道問題之所在我要告訴你我確實是找到了這個假新聞傳播的源頭\n\n09:47.941 --> 10:06.098\n我必須告訴您以我自己是傳媒專業我也教這個相關傳播法律我發現這些假訊息的來源還有民眾為什麼不相信媒體最大的原因就是因為臺灣的政媒不分媒體政治化的情形非常嚴重尤其是民進黨政府這8年來\n\n10:07.259 --> 10:28.239\n政府收買媒體大量的以發包業務宣傳廣告標案形式與新聞媒體進行錢權交易的問題非常嚴重媒體為了取得政府的標案不敢監督政府反而是討好政府為政府插支抹粉去掩護他們的錯誤政策和弊案\n\n10:28.759 --> 10:29.119\n執政委員：翁曉玲\n\n10:47.069 --> 11:10.348\n媒體最重要的原因那我也認為政府應該要負最大的責任我們來看看民進黨政府的這些這8年來到底這個業務宣傳廣告費用是給了哪些媒體那麼我們也自己做了一些調查也發現這8年來拿到媒體拿到政府標案最多的媒體就是民視三立\n\n11:11.633 --> 11:29.910\n明氏得標28億三立是37億那相較於民進黨政府最討厭的中天呢這個簡直是天黨之別這相差大概六七倍之多所以在蔡政府八年執政底下其實這個宣傳費用宣傳標案集中在特定媒體\n\n11:31.415 --> 11:46.510\n的這個身上這已經是一個不爭的事實同時呢也被媒體觀察基金會所認證我們看一下媒體觀察基金會他在2023年所公佈的衛星新聞頻道承接政府標案觀測報告當中\n\n11:47.831 --> 12:10.358\n指出還是調查過去3年108年到111年的媒體新聞頻道曾接政府標案的狀況同樣的是指出三立跟林氏是拿到最多錢的媒體我想這就是民進黨政府養媒體最好的證據我不知道為什麼你們還好意思說黨政軍退出媒體\n\n12:11.567 --> 12:11.707\n主席\n\n12:31.687 --> 12:38.373\n委員也應該清楚有一些假訊息的來源也是在特定的單位啊沒有特定的單位在製造假訊息啊\n\n12:42.881 --> 13:08.351\n我要講的就是說如果說民進黨政府花這麼多的錢去做政策廣告做業務宣傳如果宣傳效果不錯那你就算了就情有可原可是我們來看看你們做的這些宣傳的執行成效就會發現其實效果真的很差首先想請問一下防務部部長\n\n13:09.676 --> 13:11.920\n您知道有一款遊戲叫做臨時任務嗎不知道\n\n13:19.457 --> 13:39.811\n法務部長您知道嗎有一款遊戲叫做線上遊戲叫做臨時任務那我告訴你這款臨時任務的線上遊戲是你法務部調查局112年度所做的當時是在LINE上面推出這樣子的一個遊戲這個是屬於一個推理遊戲\n\n13:40.692 --> 14:01.240\n雖然說看起來宣傳經費花的不多42萬但是我也必須講說只能按讚對這個遊戲按讚的次數只有25個讚坦白說我今天歐委員我大概過去我沒有當委員之前我有時候貼的一個什麼照片或是人家貼文可能都不止25個讚你們花了那麼多的\n\n14:02.040 --> 14:03.161\n施法院案例\n\n14:23.853 --> 14:48.773\n我在研究司法院的媒體宣傳業務的標案的時候又發現有一家業者叫非株影業公司他在110到113年每一年他都取得數項的標案他的總金額也是高達差不多3600多萬這家公司他做的影片有放在YT上面\n\n14:49.861 --> 14:52.862\n說實在話這樣的宣傳效益請問院長跟部長你們能接受嗎好謝謝委員關於這種表達的方式以及他的這個內容跟他的\n\n15:19.947 --> 15:20.268\n這就是我在講的\n\n15:37.625 --> 15:58.328\n本席基本上也支持政府機關的業務是可以做適當的必要的合理的宣傳但是你錢要花在刀口上而且要有宣傳效果而不是花大錢去做了一些沒有意義而且又浪費錢沒有宣傳成效的這樣的一個業務宣導這是沒有意義的所以本席非常希望\n\n16:01.831 --> 16:21.646\n行政院是不是可以在兩個月之內提出有關於機關的業務宣導標案的發包執行原則總是要把一些執行原則要定出來﹖如果它成效不彰了﹖然後其他年度還繼續給這樣的公司去得標﹖去承辦﹖這基本上是不合理的\n\n16:22.066 --> 16:36.327\n謝謝委員提醒我們必須強力檢討同學我要說一下最近外交部做了一支雙十國慶的影片頗獲好評我們希望這個標準可以成為各位首長去學習模仿的一個成功的典範\n\n16:37.288 --> 17:04.063\n如果是這樣的情況的話當然本席是贊同的那另外我本席也要提醒我有看到很多的機關他們在編列媒體業務宣傳的經費都是為了要聘小編幫忙維運臉書我都不懂得這是在臉書貼文按讚回覆留言這不是各個機關都有新聞處公關室就可以做了為什麼還要再去委託給其他的外包公司去做這樣子的社群平台\n\n17:05.104 --> 17:22.557\n委員這沒有道理現在因為進入到社群媒體時代所以這些社群平台他理論上他就是一個政府的資訊公開平台的延伸這是自己機關內部人力就可以做的事情真的不要去浪費人民大稅錢又再去委外去委員\n\n17:23.305 --> 17:48.614\n委外有可能是要增加這個專業的表達另外就是公務人員在上班時間做這個事情難免會遭受到一些批評是啦卓院長您去看看您行政院的臉書有多少人次瀏覽啦有看多少按讚啦坦白說可能比您自己個人的臉書的粉絲專頁都還要少請委員都看一看行政院的臉書接下來呢我要講的就是\n\n17:50.635 --> 18:12.393\n除了看到媒體宣傳預算機費之外我還觀察到了NCC的預算其實這些年大家都很關心NCC的預算編列的狀況特別是有關於訴訟費用的部分本期有看到在今年你們提出來的114年的NCC的訴訟費用裡面這次又編了801萬\n\n18:15.049 --> 18:19.072\n那相對於我們想同樣是獨立機關的公平會所編列的運輸送費不好意思那個我這裡我認為翁博中沒有資格列席這次的這個會議\n\n18:38.254 --> 18:54.519\n我要講的就是說相對於同樣是獨立機關的公平會你看看人家編列的預算費用每年的訴訟費用大概就是70幾萬那NCC的訴訟費用是公平會的8到10倍這樣合理嗎\n\n18:56.425 --> 18:56.605\n委員徐旭\n\n19:26.565 --> 19:50.088\n提告要提起行政訴訟去提告NCC委員妳在NCC是有經驗的妳也是在NCC的業務非常的複雜在我的當院NCC委員的時候沒有這麼高的訴訟費用我NCC不需要去支付這麼多的訴訟費用去委託律師然後幫NCC去做辯護\n\n19:52.476 --> 20:21.476\n呃我想院長應該知道所謂的民不與官鬥這句話坦白說臺灣的業者大部分都不會願意跟機關起衝突去提告可是為什麼廣電媒體業者會這麼積極的會這麼熱衷於提起行政訴訟我自己的個人觀察第一個就是NCC所做的這些行政處分的確業者感到不服氣裡面可能有很多這個明顯重大的違法的這個疑慮所以呢他想要不服他提起訴訟\n\n20:22.516 --> 20:41.236\n第2個情況就是他的勝訴率很高反正我提告了勝訴之後我的罰金也不用交因為行政法院會把NCC的懲罰處分去撤回去撤銷所以事實證明NCC在過去的表現也是敗訴率很低\n\n20:43.721 --> 21:00.482\n對不起他的敗訴率還蠻高的有超過一半所以在這樣的一個情況之下當然就是有很多的行政訴訟業者會提告我還觀察到另外一個有趣的現象\n\n21:02.145 --> 21:02.565\n施政委員：翁曉玲\n\n21:20.543 --> 21:36.647\n那我這邊我真的認為說NCC你如果說對於自己的處分這麼有信心的話不用去請律師啦自己內部就法務處這裡裡面的人去為NCC的處分做答辯就好了真的不要浪費人民的納稅錢去做那些\n\n21:39.068 --> 21:40.009\n快速的審查\n\n21:55.399 --> 21:55.419\n競選審查\n\n22:15.333 --> 22:36.451\n報告委員我都用一次讓機關正常運作如果沒有多一位委員我們無法運作那麼我現在要講的就是說有關於這個大法官死刑大法官做出死刑有條件核限的這個議題那麼這次大法官做出這個裁判其實也引起\n\n22:37.432 --> 23:01.483\n而社會的不滿雖然說大法官沒有宣告死刑是違憲的但是他設下了很多的條件重重的關卡門檻所以實質上已經也達成了這個實質廢死的目的那麼大法官立下這些條件其實不僅在社會上在法學界裡面其實都引起很多的討論那麼我想請問院長您是否認同大法官所說的\n\n23:01.783 --> 23:02.444\n您認同這樣的看法嗎?\n\n23:14.392 --> 23:36.583\n我也注意到一開始他講這個是有條件的合憲他設定了一些條件那這些條件我們可以在用未來修法的過程當中讓它符合但是我不覺得這樣就把它等同於是實質的廢死我們還是有執行死刑在社會上經過剛剛委員說那個條件之後是有其必要跟空間的時候還是要執行的\n\n23:37.179 --> 23:46.995\n好我想請問這個院長您知不知道這一次大法官做出死刑有條件的合憲判決有幾位大法官是贊成這項判決的\n\n23:49.355 --> 24:11.460\n我知道有幾位是有不同的意見我告訴您這次的這個憲法法院的裁判大概我看起來就是有七位大法官是完全贊同這次的釋憲理由死刑有條件的核憲五位大法官分別提出了不同意見有一位大法官是完全的反對就是支持要廢死的那這樣的比數代表什麼意義\n\n24:13.305 --> 24:33.548\n就是在討論的過程一定相當的意見分歧而且各有意見沒錯院長您的觀察是對的就代表這份判決其實內容有高度的爭議所以不是裡面的內容是大部分有蠻多的大法官是反對的像這樣的憲法判決坦白說真的很難服眾\n\n24:34.349 --> 24:40.753\n現在在研修已經有修正一些的就是依據那個宪判例子就那個監獄刑刑法及那個刑法的這部分我們做一個研修\n\n24:57.160 --> 24:58.121\n對不起委員的意思是\n\n25:21.820 --> 25:47.189\n就是我們立法院通過了一個與大法官異見不盡相同的法律你們會依照新法你們會適用新法嗎大法官的幾個條件都明列在解釋文裡面那至於說我們如果達到這些條件當然可以做一些在修法上的討論但終究我們還是要在這個社會共同標準底下不過\n\n25:48.770 --> 26:08.925\n這麼說來好了立法院我們擁有立法權我必須要講守護憲法維持合憲秩序不是只是大法官的責任我們立法者也有相同的責任我們必須要在符合憲法意旨憲政秩序和國情文化以及要考量到實務的問題去進行一個合理的修法\n\n26:09.565 --> 26:33.791\n所以特別是現在這次的大法官的裁判其實未來會對於基層的司法人員會造成更沉重的更多的工作量所以我們一定會要綜合評估各方面的狀況去進行修法那麼我必須要強調的是大法官的解釋未必能夠完全拘束立法院\n\n26:34.551 --> 26:58.898\n更何況是這個憲法裁判有明顯高度的爭議恐怕未來也會影響司法事務的運作所以我們在這裡我作為一個立法委員我會很負責的我一定也會更切實際和尊重民意去進行相關的修法那我也希望我們修出來的法行政機關必須要依法行政\n\n26:59.818 --> 27:22.571\n好那接下來我還要順著這個議題就是因為我們剛剛已經講了這個大法官過去這些年來做的憲法判決常常也會增加小法官的工作量的問題所以呢就是在很多法官論壇裡面常常就有這個司法人員聽到看到司法人員抱怨就大法官大筆一揮就累死基層小法官跟檢察官\n\n27:23.251 --> 27:50.184\n那我想司法人力過勞的問題確實是很嚴重光是這半年來其實已經發生了陸陸續續有好多件不是檢察官法官或是警察的過勞而不幸生病或死亡的新聞請問這個院長跟部長你們有提了什麼樣的改建措施嗎跟委員報告我們本部都非常注意所屬的員工尤其是檢察官書記官檢視官等等的這些的\n\n27:51.414 --> 27:57.236\n部長是這樣子我也看了你們的預算書司法院的預算書法務部的預算書我現在看不出來你們有編列任何的預算是想要去改善\n\n28:16.236 --> 28:16.777\n施法人力過勞問題\n\n28:34.095 --> 28:34.435\n加班費的預算﹖\n\n28:54.906 --> 28:55.106\n李卓人議員\n\n29:16.503 --> 29:41.986\n應次去生出相關的加班經費所以這個部分的話我希望這個防務部和行政院院長你們未來都要檢討去通盤看一下大家編列加班費的狀況跟委員補充謝謝委員注意到加班費的一個問題那另外事實上我們希望能夠擴充的一些的人力比如說我們檢察官過來問題我們先有檢察官助理現在不要再講人力的部分我還要講就是你檢查事務官的\n\n29:42.706 --> 29:59.922\n明明就還有缺額而且你檢查事務官外調到別的機關的情況很嚴重這個我是來不及講了我現在要講的就是說你加班費的問題是你們必須要解決的另外我要再提醒的就是我們現行的加班費的時薪計算方式是明顯有問題的\n\n30:01.743 --> 30:17.173\n已經是他的計算方式我不知道是多久以來都沒有改變竟然是用我們的月薪除以240個小時然後算出那個時薪我們明明現在就是週休二日為什麼不是用8小時然後一個禮拜上5天班然後乘以這個4個禮拜\n\n30:19.414 --> 30:21.736\n委員長你應該同意我的看法吧提高加班費的時薪\n\n30:47.571 --> 30:48.292\n謝謝翁曉玲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.796,"end":1.016,"text":"翁曉玲委員質詢"},{"start":25.533,"end":26.073,"text":"請兩位部長稍待"},{"start":56.003,"end":78.878,"text":"謝謝 翁曉玲好是 院長好您上任至今已經超過4個月了那麼以您過去豐富的政治經驗然後曾經擔任郭立法委員然後行政院秘書長然後民進黨主席我相信您應該能夠深刻的瞭解一句話就是國家要進步不能夠走回頭路大家要團結一致向前走"},{"start":81.114,"end":102.201,"text":"非常贊成這也是賴清德總統在選前的時候曾經說過的一段話那我也非常認同不過就是我看您這四個月來的表現卻讓我觀察到您怎麼好像像是在走20年前的陳水扁當時擔任總統朝小野大的時代那麼這個行政機關是帶頭這個行使抵抗權"},{"start":106.343,"end":115.36,"text":"反國會搞杯葛進行權力的對抗行政機關依法行政難道不是法治國的基本原則嗎您認同嗎"},{"start":116.946,"end":118.708,"text":"我希望卓院長您能夠真的尊重依法行政很重要的民主法治國家的原則"},{"start":142.85,"end":170.745,"text":"如果連全國最高的中央行政機關 行政院都能夠帶頭搞對抗然後把法律踩在腳底下是法律於無物的話那麼台灣還是法治國嗎我想可能就要成為獨裁國家了絕沒有這樣的做法而且依法行政是我心中最大的一個依序院長請問您知道為什麼這次立法院要退回中央政府總預算"},{"start":172.205,"end":197.947,"text":"我們彼此的溝通還尚待加強其實本期認為這個最主要的原因也是跟我剛剛講的一樣就是我們觀察到其實行政院尤其是您上任之後根本就是把立法院當空氣然後把國會所做的一些決議當成耳邊風那在這樣的一個情況之下立法院所做的修法和決議您完全不理會也不願意遵守"},{"start":198.507,"end":198.867,"text":"國會改革法案"},{"start":220.765,"end":231.427,"text":"又不遵守我們通過的NCC組織法要求現任的NCC委員不可以再繼續留任仍然執意讓翁伯中副主委繼續代理主委"},{"start":232.359,"end":256.673,"text":"同時你也不依據新修正過的原住民進法補償條例去編足足夠的補償經費你也不甩立法院所做的各項決議包含像是調高公糧收購價格、調高健保點值以及電價動漲的決議還有要解除開放赴大陸的旅行團"},{"start":258.091,"end":269.43,"text":"那麼簡單來說就是行政院你該依法辦理的你不辦理你該編列預算的你不去編列預算這種態度在我們看來就是藐視立法權"},{"start":272.093,"end":299.64,"text":"是名譽無誤您口口聲聲說您要尋求溝通協調但是在我們的看到您現在的作為其實就是擺爛就是搞對立反正這個你們不重編這個行政院的預算我們看起來立法院也耐你們也無法這個對你們有什麼樣的其他的一個作為這樣子一個情況之下其實我真的感到非常的感慨"},{"start":302.14,"end":328.569,"text":"委員對我們的誤會頗深我如果當不尊重不尊重立法院的話那今天我們的對話我站在這裡好好的聆聽就是完全的尊重立法院執行刑事法我們看到就是院長您到底有沒有尊重我們立法院所通過修正的法律我剛剛所講的那些例子有哪一個是錯的有哪一個是假訊息不是這都是"},{"start":330.169,"end":353.232,"text":"立法院執權刑事法就是最近很多委員在講的 院紀分立行政立法司法監察的院紀分立 我們要嚴守是的 你的院紀分立可是必須要尊重的我只有三個原則 第一個就是讓機關正常運作第二個是快速審查第三個我會依法行政立法院所通過的NCC組織法"},{"start":353.652,"end":362.96,"text":"為的是讓機關能夠正常運作也登請大院能夠審查人事權之後我們一定依法行政我們無非就是希望你們能夠重新編列合理的預算能夠考察民意體諒民間的疾苦不要把錢"},{"start":382.856,"end":383.837,"text":"委員應該知道原因為什麼會這麼高"},{"start":400.843,"end":419.482,"text":"委員知道預算為什麼會這麼高對我沒有請您回答我現在講就是說如果行政院你繼續把立法院當空氣那麼立法院也不會對你客氣最後呢國家搞的這個烏煙瘴氣民眾一肚子氣坦白說賴政府也占不到便宜喔"},{"start":420.043,"end":420.583,"text":"中央政府公務預算編列約15億元"},{"start":442.754,"end":461.535,"text":"的業務宣導費用比去年113年的法定預算多了9億增高的幅度是65%那麼如果說我們再把其他的營業非營業基金還有公務預算的所有的媒體宣傳經費加起來已經超過了27億"},{"start":464.352,"end":492.989,"text":"在中間我們仔細的去調查研究也發現有5個部會機關每年編的宣傳費用高達上億這包含內政部衛福部經濟部勞動部和農業部這5個部會機關每年都編了上億元的媒體宣傳費用如果說把這5個機關的媒體宣傳費用加起來是佔整個中央政府的業務的宣傳費用的一半以上"},{"start":496.317,"end":516.935,"text":"請問 院長我們的政府有必要去花這麼多的錢做宣傳廣告嗎政府必要把自己國家政府的政策充分清楚地向人民說清楚所以你們自己說不清楚非得要請媒體來幫你們說清楚我們是請媒體轉述政府政策的說明自己一定要說清楚好 我要再講就是說其實呢 這個國際"},{"start":519.237,"end":520.337,"text":"臺灣的新聞自由度是有進步﹚可是報告當中也指出﹚"},{"start":541.783,"end":543.344,"text":"請問院長您知道為什麼我們的民眾不相信媒體"},{"start":570.064,"end":586.92,"text":"委員應該跟我們一起面對假訊息之何來我們受到的假訊息的攻擊從何而來最多我們應該找到那個源頭如果委員能夠跟我們一起的話就會知道問題之所在我要告訴你我確實是找到了這個假新聞傳播的源頭"},{"start":587.941,"end":606.098,"text":"我必須告訴您以我自己是傳媒專業我也教這個相關傳播法律我發現這些假訊息的來源還有民眾為什麼不相信媒體最大的原因就是因為臺灣的政媒不分媒體政治化的情形非常嚴重尤其是民進黨政府這8年來"},{"start":607.259,"end":628.239,"text":"政府收買媒體大量的以發包業務宣傳廣告標案形式與新聞媒體進行錢權交易的問題非常嚴重媒體為了取得政府的標案不敢監督政府反而是討好政府為政府插支抹粉去掩護他們的錯誤政策和弊案"},{"start":628.759,"end":629.119,"text":"執政委員：翁曉玲"},{"start":647.069,"end":670.348,"text":"媒體最重要的原因那我也認為政府應該要負最大的責任我們來看看民進黨政府的這些這8年來到底這個業務宣傳廣告費用是給了哪些媒體那麼我們也自己做了一些調查也發現這8年來拿到媒體拿到政府標案最多的媒體就是民視三立"},{"start":671.633,"end":689.91,"text":"明氏得標28億三立是37億那相較於民進黨政府最討厭的中天呢這個簡直是天黨之別這相差大概六七倍之多所以在蔡政府八年執政底下其實這個宣傳費用宣傳標案集中在特定媒體"},{"start":691.415,"end":706.51,"text":"的這個身上這已經是一個不爭的事實同時呢也被媒體觀察基金會所認證我們看一下媒體觀察基金會他在2023年所公佈的衛星新聞頻道承接政府標案觀測報告當中"},{"start":707.831,"end":730.358,"text":"指出還是調查過去3年108年到111年的媒體新聞頻道曾接政府標案的狀況同樣的是指出三立跟林氏是拿到最多錢的媒體我想這就是民進黨政府養媒體最好的證據我不知道為什麼你們還好意思說黨政軍退出媒體"},{"start":731.567,"end":731.707,"text":"主席"},{"start":751.687,"end":758.373,"text":"委員也應該清楚 有一些假訊息的來源也是在特定的單位啊沒有特定的單位在製造假訊息啊"},{"start":762.881,"end":788.351,"text":"我要講的就是說如果說民進黨政府花這麼多的錢去做政策廣告做業務宣傳如果宣傳效果不錯那你就算了就情有可原可是我們來看看你們做的這些宣傳的執行成效就會發現其實效果真的很差首先想請問一下防務部部長"},{"start":789.676,"end":791.92,"text":"您知道有一款遊戲叫做臨時任務嗎不知道"},{"start":799.457,"end":819.811,"text":"法務部長 您知道嗎 有一款遊戲叫做 線上遊戲叫做臨時任務那我告訴你 這款臨時任務的線上遊戲 是你法務部調查局 112年度所做的當時是在LINE上面推出這樣子的一個遊戲 這個是屬於一個推理遊戲"},{"start":820.692,"end":841.24,"text":"雖然說看起來宣傳經費花的不多42萬但是我也必須講說只能按讚對這個遊戲按讚的次數只有25個讚坦白說我今天歐委員我大概過去我沒有當委員之前我有時候貼的一個什麼照片或是人家貼文可能都不止25個讚你們花了那麼多的"},{"start":842.04,"end":843.161,"text":"施法院案例"},{"start":863.853,"end":888.773,"text":"我在研究司法院的媒體宣傳業務的標案的時候又發現有一家業者叫非株影業公司他在110到113年每一年他都取得數項的標案他的總金額也是高達差不多3600多萬這家公司他做的影片有放在YT上面"},{"start":889.861,"end":892.862,"text":"說實在話這樣的宣傳效益請問院長跟部長你們能接受嗎好謝謝委員關於這種表達的方式以及他的這個內容跟他的"},{"start":919.947,"end":920.268,"text":"這就是我在講的"},{"start":937.625,"end":958.328,"text":"本席基本上也支持政府機關的業務是可以做適當的必要的合理的宣傳但是你錢要花在刀口上而且要有宣傳效果而不是花大錢去做了一些沒有意義而且又浪費錢沒有宣傳成效的這樣的一個業務宣導這是沒有意義的所以本席非常希望"},{"start":961.831,"end":981.646,"text":"行政院是不是可以在兩個月之內提出有關於機關的業務宣導標案的發包執行原則總是要把一些執行原則要定出來﹖如果它成效不彰了﹖然後其他年度還繼續給這樣的公司去得標﹖去承辦﹖這基本上是不合理的"},{"start":982.066,"end":996.327,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們必須強力檢討同學我要說一下最近外交部做了一支雙十國慶的影片 頗獲好評我們希望這個標準可以成為各位首長去學習模仿的一個成功的典範"},{"start":997.288,"end":1024.063,"text":"如果是這樣的情況的話當然本席是贊同的那另外我本席也要提醒我有看到很多的機關他們在編列媒體業務宣傳的經費都是為了要聘小編幫忙維運臉書我都不懂得這是在臉書貼文按讚回覆留言這不是各個機關都有新聞處公關室就可以做了為什麼還要再去委託給其他的外包公司去做這樣子的社群平台"},{"start":1025.104,"end":1042.557,"text":"委員這沒有道理現在因為進入到社群媒體時代所以這些社群平台他理論上他就是一個政府的資訊公開平台的延伸這是自己機關內部人力就可以做的事情真的不要去浪費人民大稅錢又再去委外去委員"},{"start":1043.305,"end":1068.614,"text":"委外有可能是要增加這個專業的表達另外就是公務人員在上班時間做這個事情難免會遭受到一些批評是啦卓院長您去看看您行政院的臉書有多少人次瀏覽啦有看多少按讚啦坦白說可能比您自己個人的臉書的粉絲專頁都還要少請委員都看一看行政院的臉書接下來呢我要講的就是"},{"start":1070.635,"end":1092.393,"text":"除了看到媒體宣傳預算機費之外我還觀察到了NCC的預算其實這些年大家都很關心NCC的預算編列的狀況特別是有關於訴訟費用的部分本期有看到在今年你們提出來的114年的NCC的訴訟費用裡面這次又編了801萬"},{"start":1095.049,"end":1099.072,"text":"那相對於我們想同樣是獨立機關的公平會所編列的運輸送費不好意思那個我這裡我認為翁博中沒有資格列席這次的這個會議"},{"start":1118.254,"end":1134.519,"text":"我要講的就是說相對於同樣是獨立機關的公平會你看看人家編列的預算費用每年的訴訟費用大概就是70幾萬那NCC的訴訟費用是公平會的8到10倍這樣合理嗎"},{"start":1136.425,"end":1136.605,"text":"委員徐旭"},{"start":1166.565,"end":1190.088,"text":"提告要提起行政訴訟去提告NCC委員妳在NCC是有經驗的 妳也是在NCC的業務非常的複雜在我的當院NCC委員的時候沒有這麼高的訴訟費用我NCC不需要去支付這麼多的訴訟費用去委託律師然後幫NCC去做辯護"},{"start":1192.476,"end":1221.476,"text":"呃我想院長應該知道所謂的民不與官鬥這句話坦白說臺灣的業者大部分都不會願意跟機關起衝突去提告可是為什麼廣電媒體業者會這麼積極的會這麼熱衷於提起行政訴訟我自己的個人觀察第一個就是NCC所做的這些行政處分的確業者感到不服氣裡面可能有很多這個明顯重大的違法的這個疑慮所以呢他想要不服他提起訴訟"},{"start":1222.516,"end":1241.236,"text":"第2個情況就是他的勝訴率很高反正我提告了勝訴之後我的罰金也不用交因為行政法院會把NCC的懲罰處分去撤回去撤銷所以事實證明NCC在過去的表現也是敗訴率很低"},{"start":1243.721,"end":1260.482,"text":"對不起他的敗訴率還蠻高的有超過一半所以在這樣的一個情況之下當然就是有很多的行政訴訟業者會提告我還觀察到另外一個有趣的現象"},{"start":1262.145,"end":1262.565,"text":"施政委員：翁曉玲"},{"start":1280.543,"end":1296.647,"text":"那我這邊我真的認為說NCC你如果說對於自己的處分這麼有信心的話不用去請律師啦自己內部就法務處這裡裡面的人去為NCC的處分做答辯就好了真的不要浪費人民的納稅錢去做那些"},{"start":1299.068,"end":1300.009,"text":"快速的審查"},{"start":1315.399,"end":1315.419,"text":"競選審查"},{"start":1335.333,"end":1356.451,"text":"報告委員我都用一次讓機關正常運作如果沒有多一位委員我們無法運作那麼我現在要講的就是說有關於這個大法官死刑大法官做出死刑有條件核限的這個議題那麼這次大法官做出這個裁判其實也引起"},{"start":1357.432,"end":1381.483,"text":"而社會的不滿雖然說大法官沒有宣告死刑是違憲的但是他設下了很多的條件重重的關卡門檻所以實質上已經也達成了這個實質廢死的目的那麼大法官立下這些條件其實不僅在社會上在法學界裡面其實都引起很多的討論那麼我想請問院長您是否認同大法官所說的"},{"start":1381.783,"end":1382.444,"text":"您認同這樣的看法嗎?"},{"start":1394.392,"end":1416.583,"text":"我也注意到一開始他講這個是有條件的合憲他設定了一些條件那這些條件我們可以在用未來修法的過程當中讓它符合但是我不覺得這樣就把它等同於是實質的廢死我們還是有執行死刑在社會上經過剛剛委員說那個條件之後是有其必要跟空間的時候還是要執行的"},{"start":1417.179,"end":1426.995,"text":"好 我想請問這個院長您知不知道這一次大法官做出死刑有條件的合憲判決有幾位大法官是贊成這項判決的"},{"start":1429.355,"end":1451.46,"text":"我知道有幾位是有不同的意見我告訴您這次的這個憲法法院的裁判大概我看起來就是有七位大法官是完全贊同這次的釋憲理由死刑有條件的核憲五位大法官分別提出了不同意見有一位大法官是完全的反對就是支持要廢死的那這樣的比數代表什麼意義"},{"start":1453.305,"end":1473.548,"text":"就是在討論的過程一定相當的意見分歧而且各有意見沒錯 院長您的觀察是對的就代表這份判決其實內容有高度的爭議所以不是裡面的內容是大部分有蠻多的大法官是反對的像這樣的憲法判決坦白說真的很難服眾"},{"start":1474.349,"end":1480.753,"text":"現在在研修已經有修正一些的就是依據那個宪判例子就那個監獄刑刑法及那個刑法的這部分我們做一個研修"},{"start":1497.16,"end":1498.121,"text":"對不起委員的意思是"},{"start":1521.82,"end":1547.189,"text":"就是我們立法院通過了一個與大法官異見不盡相同的法律你們會依照新法你們會適用新法嗎大法官的幾個條件都明列在解釋文裡面那至於說我們如果達到這些條件當然可以做一些在修法上的討論但終究我們還是要在這個社會共同標準底下不過"},{"start":1548.77,"end":1568.925,"text":"這麼說來好了立法院我們擁有立法權我必須要講守護憲法維持合憲秩序不是只是大法官的責任我們立法者也有相同的責任我們必須要在符合憲法意旨憲政秩序和國情文化以及要考量到實務的問題去進行一個合理的修法"},{"start":1569.565,"end":1593.791,"text":"所以特別是現在這次的大法官的裁判其實未來會對於基層的司法人員會造成更沉重的更多的工作量所以我們一定會要綜合評估各方面的狀況去進行修法那麼我必須要強調的是大法官的解釋未必能夠完全拘束立法院"},{"start":1594.551,"end":1618.898,"text":"更何況是這個憲法裁判有明顯高度的爭議恐怕未來也會影響司法事務的運作所以我們在這裡我作為一個立法委員我會很負責的我一定也會更切實際和尊重民意去進行相關的修法那我也希望我們修出來的法行政機關必須要依法行政"},{"start":1619.818,"end":1642.571,"text":"好那接下來我還要順著這個議題就是因為我們剛剛已經講了這個大法官過去這些年來做的憲法判決常常也會增加小法官的工作量的問題所以呢就是在很多法官論壇裡面常常就有這個司法人員聽到看到司法人員抱怨就大法官大筆一揮就累死基層小法官跟檢察官"},{"start":1643.251,"end":1670.184,"text":"那我想司法人力過勞的問題確實是很嚴重光是這半年來其實已經發生了陸陸續續有好多件不是檢察官法官或是警察的過勞而不幸生病或死亡的新聞請問這個院長跟部長你們有提了什麼樣的改建措施嗎跟委員報告我們本部都非常注意所屬的員工尤其是檢察官書記官檢視官等等的這些的"},{"start":1671.414,"end":1677.236,"text":"部長是這樣子 我也看了你們的預算書 司法院的預算書 法務部的預算書我現在看不出來你們有編列任何的預算是想要去改善"},{"start":1696.236,"end":1696.777,"text":"施法人力過勞問題"},{"start":1714.095,"end":1714.435,"text":"加班費的預算﹖"},{"start":1734.906,"end":1735.106,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":1756.503,"end":1781.986,"text":"應次去生出相關的加班經費所以這個部分的話我希望這個防務部和行政院院長你們未來都要檢討去通盤看一下大家編列加班費的狀況跟委員補充謝謝委員注意到加班費的一個問題那另外事實上我們希望能夠擴充的一些的人力比如說我們檢察官過來問題我們先有檢察官助理現在不要再講人力的部分我還要講就是你檢查事務官的"},{"start":1782.706,"end":1799.922,"text":"明明就還有缺額而且你檢查事務官外調到別的機關的情況很嚴重這個我是來不及講了我現在要講的就是說你加班費的問題是你們必須要解決的另外我要再提醒的就是我們現行的加班費的時薪計算方式是明顯有問題的"},{"start":1801.743,"end":1817.173,"text":"已經是他的計算方式我不知道是多久以來都沒有改變竟然是用我們的月薪除以240個小時然後算出那個時薪我們明明現在就是週休二日為什麼不是用8小時然後一個禮拜上5天班然後乘以這個4個禮拜"},{"start":1819.414,"end":1821.736,"text":"委員長 你應該同意我的看法吧提高加班費的時薪"},{"start":1847.571,"end":1848.292,"text":"謝謝翁曉玲委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"term":11,"id":"院會-11-2-2","title":"第11屆第2會期第2次會議","type":"院會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-27T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"15:17:24 - 15:48:28","會議名稱":"第11屆第2會期第2次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢）","id":154924,"gazette":{"lineno":313,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（15時17分）有請院長。"],["主席：跟院會報告，現在在我們議場二樓旁聽的是臺北市立聯合醫院的醫生朋友們，我們掌聲歡迎，歡迎大家來立法院。謝謝。","麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["翁委員曉玲：待會可能也要會請法務部部長……"],["主席：請勞動部長備詢。"],["翁委員曉玲：現在還不需要。"],["主席：法務部是現在上，還是等一下？現在備詢？"],["翁委員曉玲：要不然等一下好了。"],["主席：好，麻煩請兩位部長稍待。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。翁委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：院長好。您上任至今已經超過四個月了，以您過去豐富的政治經驗，曾經擔任過立法委員、行政院秘書長、民進黨主席，我相信你應該能夠深刻了解一句話：國家要進步，不能夠走回頭路，大家要團結一致向前走………"],["卓院長榮泰：非常贊成。"],["翁委員曉玲：非常贊成？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：這也是賴清德總統在選前曾經說過的一段話，我也非常認同。不過看您這四個月來的表現，讓我觀察到您怎麼好像是在走20年前陳水扁擔任總統朝小野大的時代，行政機關帶頭行使抵抗權、反國會、搞杯葛，進行權力對抗？行政機關依法行政，難道不是法治國家的基本原則嗎？您認同嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：朝小野大是我們現在的政治生態，但我們不會用過去的思維跟作法，來跟現在的國會做任何對抗，所以我們不會……"],["翁委員曉玲：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：在這種對抗的過程當中，希望大家能得到更好的、互相的互動……"],["翁委員曉玲：好的，瞭解。"],["卓院長榮泰：這樣才是國家之幸。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我也很希望卓院長您能夠真的尊重依法行政這個很重要的民主法治國家的原則，如果連全國最高的中央行政機關行政院都能夠帶頭搞對抗，把法律踩在腳底下，視法律於無物的話，那麼臺灣還是法治國嗎？我想可能就要成為獨裁國家了！"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對沒有這樣的作法，而且依法行政是我心中最大的一個依循。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，接下來我想請教一下院長，請問您知道為什麼這次立法院要退回中央政府總預算？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們彼此的溝通還尚待加強。"],["翁委員曉玲：其實本席認為最主要的原因也是跟我剛剛講的一樣，就是我們觀察到行政院，尤其是您上任之後，根本就是把立法院當成空氣，把國會所做的一些決議當成耳邊風，在這樣的情況之下，立法院所做的修法和決議您完全不理會，也不願意遵守，那麼在我們的看法發現您眼中只有黨意，似乎沒有民意。","我們來看看在您的任內，卓內閣是如何不甩立法院的法案和決議的。首先，你杯葛國會改革法案，讓我們失去對行政機關監督的能力。其次，你又不遵守我們通過的NCC組織法，要求現任的NCC委員不可以再繼續留任，仍然執意讓翁柏宗副主委繼續代理主委。同時，你也不依據新修正過的原住民禁伐補償條例去編足夠的補償經費。你也不甩立法院所做的各項決議，包含像是調高公糧收購價格、調高健保點值以及電價凍漲的決議，還有要解除開放赴大陸的旅行團。簡單來說，就是行政院該依法辦理的你不辦理，該編列預算的你不去編列預算，這種態度在我們看來就是藐視立法權，視民意於無物。您口口聲聲說您要尋求溝通、協調，但是我們看到您現在的作為其實就是擺爛啊！就是搞對立！反正你們不重編行政院的預算，看起來立法院也無法對你們有什麼樣的其他作為，在這樣的情況下，其實我真的感到非常的感慨！"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，委員，我一句話，委員對我們的誤會頗深啦，我如果……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，因為我們是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我如果不尊重立法院的話，今天我們的對話，我站在這裡好好的聆聽就是完全的尊重，立法院職權行使法……"],["翁委員曉玲：對，因為我們也是聽其言觀其行，我們看到的就是院長您到底有沒有尊重我們立法院所通過修正的法律，我剛剛所講的那一些例子有哪一個是錯的？有哪一個是假訊息？不是，這都是……"],["卓院長榮泰：容我1分鐘解釋，立法院職權行使法，就是最近很多委員在講的院際分立，行政、立法、司法跟監察的院際分立我們要嚴守……"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，你的院際分立必須要尊重立法院……"],["卓院長榮泰：對NCC，我只有三個原則，第一個就是讓機關正常運作……"],["翁委員曉玲：好了，不用再說！因為就這個部分來說……"],["卓院長榮泰：第二個是快速審查，第三個是我會依法行政。"],["翁委員曉玲：很明顯的，就是我們立法院所通過的NCC組織法你就是不公布啊！你就可以投機取巧，然後擺爛就不公布啊！這個部分基本上已經違反了我們法律的通過……"],["卓院長榮泰：為的是讓機關可以正常運作……"],["翁委員曉玲：好了，接下來我想要再講的是……"],["卓院長榮泰：也敦請大院能夠審查人事權，之後我們一定依法行政。"],["翁委員曉玲：其實今天退回行政院的中央政府總預算，我們無非就是希望你們可以重新編列合理的預算，能夠考察民意，體諒民間的疾苦，不要把錢浪費在不應該花的地方。今年的中央政府總預算已經破歷史新高，已經高達3兆，如果說是……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員應該知道原因為什麼會這麼高。"],["翁委員曉玲：如果你們沒有把人民的錢用在刀口上，立法院做嚴格把關，這有什麼不對？我要講的就是……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員應該知道預算為什麼會這麼高。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，請聽我說完，我沒有請您回答。我現在要講的就是說，如果行政院繼續把立法院當空氣，那麼立法院也不會對你客氣，最後是國家搞得烏煙瘴氣，民眾一肚子氣，坦白說賴政府也占不到便宜。","接下來順著我們剛剛講的議題，我們來談談最近各界基本上非常關心政府機關編列的媒體宣傳經費的事情，其他委員其實也有談到，我在這邊還是要重新提醒，今年度中央政府的公務預算就編列了將近15億的業務宣導費用，比去年113年法定預算多了9億，增高的幅度是65%，如果我們再把其他營業、非營業基金還有公務預算的所有媒體宣傳經費加起來，已經超過了27億。這中間我們仔細的去調查研究也發現，有5個部會機關每年編列的宣傳費用高達上億，包含內政部、衛福部、經濟部、勞動部和農業部，這5個部會機關每年都編列上億元的媒體宣傳費用，如果把這5個機關的宣傳費用加起來，是占整個中央政府業務的宣傳費用的一半以上。請問院長，我們的政府有必要去花這麼多錢做宣傳廣告嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：政府必要把國家政府的政策充分、清楚的向人民說清楚。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以你們自己說不清楚，非得要請媒體幫你說清楚嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是請媒體轉述政府政策的說明，自己一定要說清楚。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我要再講的就是說，其實國際非政府組織──無國界記者組織發布2024年度新聞自由指數報告裡面顯示，臺灣的新聞自由度有進步，從第35名進步到第27名，可是報告當中也指出，臺灣觀眾看的媒體大多有政治立場，而且假訊息和假新聞充斥，臺灣媒體在民眾心目中，就是臺灣大眾對媒體信任度之低，是亞洲地區國家排名墊底的，是最後一名。針對這樣的情況，請問院長您知道為什麼我們的民眾不相信媒體？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員應該跟我們一起面對假訊息何來，我們受到假訊息的攻擊從何而來最多，我們應該找到那個源頭，如果委員能夠跟我們一起的話，就會知道問題之所在。"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，院長，我要告訴您，我確實是找到了假新聞傳播的源頭。我必須告訴您，以我自己是傳媒專業，我也教相關傳播法律，我發現這些假訊息的來源，還有民眾為什麼不相信媒體，最大的原因就是因為臺灣的政媒不分，媒體政治化的情形非常嚴重。尤其是民進黨政府這8年來，政府收買媒體，大量的以發包業務宣傳廣告標案形式與新聞媒體進行錢權交易的問題非常嚴重，媒體為了取得政府的標案，不敢監督政府，反而是討好政府，為政府擦脂抹粉，去掩護他們的政策錯誤和弊案，幫著執政者去醜化其政敵，媒體不僅做不到平衡報導，而且還散播不實的訊息，這是政媒共生、媒體高度政治化情形所造成民眾之所以不信賴媒體最重要的原因，我也認為政府應該要負最大的責任。","我們來看看民進黨政府這8年來到底將業務宣傳廣告費用給了哪些媒體？我們自己做了一些調查研究發現，這8年來拿到政府標案最多的媒體就是民視、三立，民視得標28億，三立得標37億，相較於民進黨政府最討厭的中天，簡直是天壤之別，相差6、7倍之多！在蔡政府8年執政底下，宣傳費用的標案集中在特定媒體業者的身上已經是不爭的事實，同時也被媒體觀察基金會所認證。我們看一下媒體觀察基金會在2023年公布的衛星新聞頻道承接政府標案觀測報告，它是調查過去3年（108年到111年）媒體新聞頻道承接政府標案的狀況，同樣指出三立跟民視是拿到最多錢的媒體，我想這就是民進黨政府養媒體最好的證據，我不知道為什麼你們還好意思說黨政軍退出媒體！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員的分析、邏輯跟指責，完全不是正確的資訊。"],["翁委員曉玲：我之後會把我的相關資料再提供給院長參考。有關於媒體宣傳經費集中在特定廠商，我們預算中心也做了報告研究，這個部分我們就不用再講了，但是接下來……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員也應該清楚，有些假訊息來源也是在特定的單位啊……"],["翁委員曉玲：但是我現在要講的是……"],["卓院長榮泰：也有特定的單位在製造假訊息啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：對不起，院長，請讓我詢問下一個問題。我要講的就是，如果民進黨政府花這麼多錢去做政策廣告、做業務宣傳，如果宣傳效果不錯也就算了，這情有可原，可是我們來看看你們做的這些宣傳的執行成效，就會發現其實效果真的很差。首先，想請問一下法務部部長。"],["主席：麻煩請法務部長備詢。"],["翁委員曉玲：或是請問院長，您知道有一款遊戲叫做「零時任務」嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不知道。"],["翁委員曉玲：請問法務部長，您知道嗎？有一款線上遊戲叫做「零時任務」。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我不清楚。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，那我告訴您。這款「零時任務」的線上遊戲是法務部調查局112年度所做的，當時是在LINE上面推出這樣子的一個遊戲，這是屬於一個推理遊戲。雖然說看起來宣傳經費花得不多，42萬，但是我也必須講，結果對這個遊戲按「讚」的次數只有25個，坦白說，過去我沒有當委員之前，我有時候貼的一個什麼照片或是寫的貼文，可能都不只25個讚，你們花了那麼多的時間、金錢去委託做的這款遊戲，之前只有25個讚，我都不知道，連部長自己過去都沒有聽聞過這個「零時任務」的線上遊戲，各個地檢署還有調查局，他們都有去推廣這款遊戲，所以由此可見，宣傳效果有多差。我們再舉個司法院的案例，我在研究司法院的媒體宣傳業務的標案時也有發現，有一家業者叫「飛豬影業公司」，在110年到113年，每一年它都有取得數項標案，總金額也高達差不多三千六百多萬，這家公司做的影片有放在YT上面，讓我非常吃驚的地方就是，它的觀看次數真的是慘不忍睹，其中播放、觀看次數最多的一個影片叫做「勞工自願提繳退休金」的宣傳影片，它的觀看次數只有133次。說實在話，這樣的宣傳效益，請問院長跟部長，你們能接受嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。關於這種表達的方式，以及它的內容跟它表達出來的成效不彰，謝謝委員的提醒……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以我就講……"],["卓院長榮泰：各個部會首長都應該用這樣的標準來看看我們現在如何跟人民對話，透過正常的管道、透過正當的管道將意思清楚地表達出來，這是我們的要求。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，這就是我在講的，本席基本上也支持政府機關的業務可以做適當的、必要的、合理的宣傳，但是錢要花在刀口上，而且要有宣傳效果，而不是花大錢去做一些沒有意義而且又浪費錢，沒有宣傳成效的業務宣導，這是沒有意義的。所以，本席非常希望而且在此也要求，行政院是不是可以在兩個月之內就可以提出有關於機關的業務宣導標案的發包執行原則，總是要把一些執行原則訂出來嘛！如果它的成效不彰，然後下年度還繼續給這樣的公司去得標、去承辦，這基本上是不合理的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒，我們必須強力檢討。同時我也要說一下，最近外交部做了一支雙十國慶的影片頗獲好評，我們希望這個標準……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，那我覺得如果是這樣的話就有意義。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個標準可以成為各部會首長去學習模仿的一個成功的典範。"],["翁委員曉玲：如果是這種情況的話，那當然本席是贊同的。另外，本席也要提醒，我有看到很多機關，他們編列媒體業務宣傳的經費都是為了要聘小編幫忙維運臉書，我都不懂得，在臉書貼文、按讚、回復留言，這不是各個機關都有的新聞處、公關室就可以做了，為什麼還要再去委託給其他的外包公司，去做這樣子的社群平臺的維運？而且也沒有道理嘛。現在因為進入到社群媒體時代，所以這些社群平臺，理論上它就是一個政府資訊公開平臺的延伸，這是機關自己內部人力就可以做的事情，真的不要浪費人民的納稅錢再去委外維運。"],["卓院長榮泰：委外有可能是要增加專業的表達，另外就是公務人員在上班時間做這個事情難免會遭受到一些批評。"],["翁委員曉玲：是啦！卓院長，您去看看行政院的臉書有多少人次瀏覽、有多少按讚，坦白說可能比您自己個人的臉書粉絲專頁都還要少。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員多看一看行政院的臉書。"],["翁委員曉玲：這個部分我想我們就談到這邊。","接下來，我要講的就是我除了看到媒體宣傳預算費用之外，我還觀察到了NCC的預算，其實這些年大家都很關心NCC預算編列的狀況，特別是有關於訴訟費用的部分。本席有看到今年你們提出來的114年NCC的訴訟費用裡面，這次又編了801萬，相對的從111年、112年、113年，其實它每年的訴訟費用都相當地高。相對於我們講同樣是獨立機關的公平會所編列的訴訟費……不好意思，我認為翁柏宗沒有資格列席這次的會議。我要講的就是相對於同樣是獨立機關的公平會，你看看人家每年編列的訴訟費用大概就是七十幾萬，NCC的訴訟費用是公平會的8到10倍，這樣合理嗎？這樣合理嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員垂詢的我想NCC是獨立機關，一定有它業務的需要……"],["翁委員曉玲：我必須說真的是非常地誇張。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們代理主委不能說明的話，那我只能請他之後再跟委員說明。"],["翁委員曉玲：不用說明了，我覺得事實就已經證明了一切，對不對？公平會同樣都是獨立機關，人家的訴訟費用編列，預估業者會打官司的費用支出，可能只有七十幾萬，那為什麼NCC所做的處分會有這麼多的業者不服，為什麼要提告、要提起行政訴訟去告NCC？我想……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你在NCC是有經驗的，你也知道NCC的業務非常地複雜。"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，所以我就要再講，在我當NCC委員的時候沒有這麼高的訴訟費用，NCC不需要支付這麼多的訴訟費用去委託律師，然後幫NCC辯護。","我想院長應該知道所謂的民不與官鬥這句話，坦白說臺灣的業者大部分都不會願意跟機關起衝突去提告，可是為什麼廣電媒體業者會這麼積極地、會這麼熱衷於提起行政訴訟？我自己的個人觀察，第一個就是NCC所做的這些行政處分的確讓業者感到不服氣，裡面可能有很多明顯重大違法的疑慮，所以它不服，想要提起訴訟。第二個情況就是它的勝訴率很高，反正我提告了、勝訴之後，我的罰金也不用繳，因為行政法院會把NCC裁罰的處分撤銷。事實證明NCC在過去的表現，它的敗訴率還滿高的，有超過一半，所以在這樣的情況之下，當然就是有很多的行政訴訟，業者會提告。","那麼我還觀察到另外一個有趣的現象，NCC在114年所編列的罰鍰收入是1,120萬，但是它的訴訟費用就是八百多萬，也就是說，它裁罰收入的七成都去支付訴訟費用，坦白說這也真的是很不合理喔！我真的認為NCC如果對於自己的處分這麼有信心的話，不用去請律師啦！自己內部就有法務處，裡面的人去為NCC的處分答辯就好了，真的不要浪費人民的納稅錢去幫NCC不適當、違法的處分再去打官司。所以從這件事情裡面就讓我真的感受到，審查NCC人事案這件事情是多麼地重要……"],["卓院長榮泰：而且是要快速地審查。"],["翁委員曉玲：是的……"],["卓院長榮泰：儘快審查。"],["翁委員曉玲：而且我們要選出不偏不倚、真正專業的好委員，像現在已經不適格、早就應該要離開NCC的委員，竟然還可以去當代理主委，這件事情其實是本席無法忍受的。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我的用意是讓機關正常運作……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，接下來……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果沒有多一位委員我們無法運作。"],["翁委員曉玲：不好意思，接下來因為時間的關係，怕不夠了。我現在要講的就是有關於大法官做出死刑有條件合憲的這個議題，這次大法官作出這個裁判，其實也引起社會的不滿，雖然說大法官沒有宣告死刑是違憲的，但是他設下了很多的條件、重重的關卡、門檻，所以實質上也已經達成了實質廢死的目的。","大法官立下這些條件，其實不僅在社會上、在法學界裡面，都引起很多的討論。我想請問院長，您是否認同大法官所說的，因為死刑是剝奪人民生命權，這個最重要的問題要採最高程度的保障，所以要求各級法院的法官都要一致決，您認同這樣的看法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我也注意到一開始他講這個是有條件的合憲，他設定了一些條件，這些條件我們可以在未來修法的過程當中讓它符合，但是我不覺得這樣就把它等同於是實質的廢死，我們還是有執行死刑，在社會上，經過剛剛委員說的那個條件之後，有其必要跟空間的時候，還是要執行的。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我想請問院長，您知不知道這次大法官做出死刑有條件的合憲判決，有幾位大法官贊成這項判決？"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道有幾位有不同的意見。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我告訴您，這次憲法法院的裁判，我看起來就是有7位大法官完全贊同這次的釋憲理由，死刑有條件的合憲，5位大法官分別提出了不同意見，有1位大法官是完全地反對，就是支持要廢死的，這樣的比數代表什麼意義？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是在討論的過程一定意見相當分歧，而且各有意見。"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，沒錯，院長，您的觀察是對的，就代表這份判決其實內容有高度的爭議，所以不是……裡面的內容有滿多的大法官是反對的，像這樣的憲法判決，坦白說，真的很難服眾。您剛剛也講了，接下來行政院、法務部都會針對大法官裡面的裁判意旨進行修法，我想請問法務部現在有準備了嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在在研修，已經有修正一些……"],["翁委員曉玲：準備修一些什麼內容？"],["鄭部長銘謙：就是依據那個憲判例子，就監獄行刑法及刑法這部分，我們做研修。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我想請教，因為你們現在是提案，你們修法提案要經過立法院同意通過，當然我想我們立法委員這邊同樣也會提出相關的修法案，如果說我們最後修了一個、通過了一個與大法官意見不同的法律，請問院長、部長，你們要如何因應？你們會依法行政嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，委員的意思是？"],["翁委員曉玲：就是我們立法院通過了一個與大法官意見不盡相同的法律，你們會依照新法，你們會適用新法嗎？你們會依法行政嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：大法官的幾個條件都明列在解釋文裡面，至於說我們如果達到這些條件，當然可以做一些修法上的討論，但終究我們還是要在這個社會共同標準底下，不過……"],["翁委員曉玲：這麼說好了，我們立法院擁有立法權，我必須要講，守護憲法，維持合憲秩序，不只是大法官的責任，我們立法者也有相同的責任，我們必須符合憲法意旨、憲政秩序和國情、文化，以及考量到實務的問題去進行合理的修法，所以特別是這次大法官的裁判，其實未來對於基層的司法人力、人員會造成更沉重的、更多的工作量，所以我們一定要綜合評估各方面的狀況去進行修法。我必須要強調的是，大法官的解釋未必能夠完全拘束立法院，更何況這個憲法裁判有明顯、高度的爭議，恐怕未來也會影響司法實務的運作。所以我們在這裡，我作為一個立法委員，我會很負責的，也一定會更切實際及尊重民意去進行相關的修法，我也希望我們修出來的法，行政機關必須要依法行政。","接下來我還要順著這個議題，因為我們剛剛已經講了，大法官過去這些年來做的憲法判決，常常也會有增加小法官工作量的問題，所以在很多法官論壇裡面，常常會聽到、看到司法人員抱怨，大法官大筆一揮就累死基層小法官跟檢察官。我想司法人力過勞的問題確實是很嚴重，光是這半年來，其實已經陸陸續續發生了好多件檢察官、法官或是警察過勞而不幸生病或死亡的新聞。請問院長跟部長，你們有提了什麼樣的改進措施嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，本部都非常注意所屬的員工，尤其是檢察官、書記官、檢事官等等的過勞問題，所以在這部分我們有就人道關懷做一些關心。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：另外，最主要我們還是要做減工作的調整跟減量。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，部長，是這樣子，我也看了你們的預算書，包括司法院的預算書、法務部的預算書，我現在看不出你們有編列任何預算是想要去改善司法人力過勞的問題。我們看看嘛！司法院跟法務部編的加班費逐年提高，一年比一年高，我們就隨便找幾個地檢署所編的加班費預算，不僅是預算逐年提高，而且還發現一個有趣的問題，它的決算還比原來的預算高，這代表什麼意思？就是機關編列的加班費根本就不足以因應大家對加班所提出的加班費申請，所以這代表你們機關裡面編列加班費基本上是有問題的，並沒有符合實際狀況，而且這也會造成機關困擾，為什麼？當這個經費不夠的時候，它只好挖東牆補西牆，硬是去生出相關的加班經費。所以在這個部分，我希望法務部、行政院未來都要檢討，去通盤看一下大家編列加班費的狀況。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員補充，謝謝委員注意到加班費的問題。另外，事實上，我們希望能夠擴充一些人力，譬如說，我們檢察官過勞的問題，我們現在有檢察官助理……"],["翁委員曉玲：現在不要再講人力的部分。我還要講檢察事務官明明就還有缺額，而且檢察事務官外調到別的機關的情況很嚴重，這個我是來不及講了，我現在要講的就是加班費的問題是你們必須要解決的。另外我還要再提醒的就是我們現行加班費的時薪計算方式是明顯有問題的，它的計算方式我不知道多久以來都沒有改變，竟然是用月薪除以240個小時，然後算出時薪；我們現在明明就是周休二日，為什麼不是用8小時，一個禮拜上5天班，然後乘以4個禮拜？所以應該是要除以160小時，這樣才合理！基本上要把大家的加班費時薪提升，而不是還在用多少年以前的計算方式，這是很不合理的！我不認為要提高加班時數，因為這個會讓司法人力更加過勞，但是提高加班費的時薪是有必要的！院長，你應該同意我的看法吧？提高加班費的時薪。"],["卓院長榮泰：計算的方式真的是制度面，其來有自，這是全國統一，如果說……"],["翁委員曉玲：不要說其來有自，我們30年前也沒有周休二日……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然可以討論。"],["翁委員曉玲：現在已經周休二日了，結果還把這個時間算進去……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然可以討論，但是討論之前還是要以原制度施行。"],["翁委員曉玲：總之我希望你們要提出檢討報告，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝翁曉玲委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長備詢。","接下來我們請登記第28位林月琴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":104,"meet_id":"院會-11-2-2","speakers":["韓國瑜","蔡其昌","陳雪生","吳春城","林俊憲","萬美玲","鍾佳濱","翁曉玲","林月琴","呂玉玲","王正旭","丁學忠"],"page_start":21,"meetingDate":["2024-09-27"],"gazette_id":"1137601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137601_00002","1137601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期第2次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1137601_00003"}}}