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{\"word\": \"訣\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 239.331, \"end\": 239.511, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 239.511, \"end\": 240.151, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 240.151, \"end\": 241.192, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 241.192, \"end\": 241.392, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 241.392, \"end\": 241.552, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"織\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 241.552, \"end\": 242.113, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 242.113, \"end\": 242.553, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 242.553, \"end\": 242.993, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 242.993, \"end\": 243.113, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 243.113, \"end\": 243.214, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 243.214, \"end\": 243.574, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 243.574, \"end\": 243.954, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 243.954, \"end\": 244.635, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 244.635, \"end\": 245.015, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 245.015, \"end\": 245.195, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 245.195, \"end\": 245.335, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 245.335, \"end\": 245.455, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 245.455, \"end\": 245.675, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 245.675, \"end\": 245.695, \"score\": 0.066}]}, {\"start\": 246.576, \"end\": 269.785, \"text\": \"所以我會繼續的要求就是說我們工程會也能夠把這個精神再注意因為坦白講最有利標就像那個臺北市政府的那些標案一樣最怕的就是說到底有沒有人心術不正想要從中謀利那你如果說有正風主計從頭到尾參與的話其實這些東西可能就不敢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 246.576, \"end\": 246.856, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 246.856, \"end\": 246.916, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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00:01:00,078\n我們也希望說工程會能夠盡量推動增豐跟主計的參與那這樣子可以協助工程就是避免那讓新宿不正的人有機會去操作那如果是新宿很正的人也避免受到那個不必要的質疑所以其實增豐跟主計我覺得我們都是相當希望說他能夠辛苦一點多參與\n\n3\n00:01:00,558 --> 00:01:01,078\n發言委員．許智傑\n\n4\n00:01:27,492 --> 00:01:37,874\n那第一期的第二期現在在絕標階段那請教一下第一期一之一這個立體停車場同胞這個工程政風跟佐計不知道有沒有參與\n\n5\n00:01:42,172 --> 00:02:02,109\n我們再瞭解看看不過政風跟主計一般在辦理這種招標的主辦機關他同時就可以邀請主計或政風在開標等於決標的過程當中全程參與對所以其實我就跟主委上一次主委第一次質詢的時候跟主委報告過就是說\n\n6\n00:02:03,710 --> 00:02:29,446\n其實政風跟組織的參與我覺得蠻重要的公務員有沒有擔當事實上跟政風組織的參與也很關係如果今天其實那個大金額的絕標工程今天如果是用最低價標我們知道都可能會影響到品質所以我一直希望說政風跟組織可以多參與那就是說你今天大工程的招標因為其實最容易做手的也是大工程\n\n7\n00:02:30,892 --> 00:02:47,775\n啊所以呢其實這個部分評審標的話就有力標的話事實上就是說我們擔心就是如果心術不正的人去參與這一個大的標案啊如果沒有政府跟組織參與有可能就會有事相說說或綁標的情形\n\n8\n00:02:48,556 --> 00:03:02,526\n好那如果是新宿很正的有擔當的公務員他真的是選到最好的那也怕外界質疑或者是有時候其實我一直有一句話就是說如果檢察官爛宿會造成公務員不敢容易認識\n\n9\n00:03:03,607 --> 00:03:20,297\n所以我們會讓有擔當的公務員就是說有政治有政風跟組織的參與事實上你就可以很大聲的很心裡沒有問題的告訴他你看我完全都是公平公正公開那我就是挑最適合的最有利標來做這個工程\n\n10\n00:03:21,274 --> 00:03:37,648\n根據我的瞭解跟經驗現在這種政府公共工程的採購啊政風主計在場的比例是蠻普遍的啦一般承辦的主管都會希望政風也在場對其實這個就是根據報告從\n\n11\n00:03:39,736 --> 00:04:05,695\n吳鋒某當工程會主委一直到現在我每一年都會去看政府跟組織參與的比例那以及他最有力標標出去工程標出去的比例那我會去看這個趨勢到底有沒有成長事實上這幾年來我們看到最有力標的訣標事實上政府跟組織的參與跟幫助這個最有力標的實施也看到了成效\n\n12\n00:04:06,576 --> 00:04:29,785\n所以我會繼續的要求就是說我們工程會也能夠把這個精神再注意因為坦白講最有利標就像那個臺北市政府的那些標案一樣最怕的就是說到底有沒有人心術不正想要從中謀利那你如果說有正風主計從頭到尾參與的話其實這些東西可能就不敢\n\n13\n00:04:31,642 --> 00:04:50,857\n所以我希望說工程會員師能夠秉持這個原則能夠繼續去要求我們來鼓勵各機關能夠照這樣做那這個是舉這個例子一之一期我只是問問說有沒有參與那一之二期今年也主委陳說希望說能夠完成決標那我們預計2032年可以完成這個主委應該有信心\n\n14\n00:05:00,641 --> 00:05:22,861\n整個兩期總預算大概900多億那原計劃這個我請副主委李德副主委你來沒事我們時間還不多我們就希望那個主委幫忙多要求其實我還有一個問題下一次再問現在沒有時間問其實交通部一直跟我說要16年我就覺得怎麼會要這麼久\n\n15\n00:05:24,518 --> 00:05:38,692\n那工程會是不是可以去協助一下就是說他分半半施工那一個半就是8年一個半就是8年兩個要16年你像那個泰國青麥機場5年就完工了全部就做完了他是國內線跟國\n\n16\n00:05:40,313 --> 00:06:03,335\n我知道我知道所以他辦辦事工我知道我是說那個時間有沒有機會再縮短我們想辦法來要求工程會有沒有辦法去給他們比較專業的工程上的指導我們來協助民航局對可以把那個時間縮短的部分能夠在界面上多整合來縮短事工好這個拜託工程會能夠協助啦因為我一直對這16年\n\n17\n00:06:05,237 --> 00:06:07,159\n最後一個就是我們捷運黃線現在我們預計2030年能夠完成\n\n18\n00:06:27,569 --> 00:06:39,567\n那目前的確是遇到問題也需要工程會協助就是我們在經過這個最近就是物條啦缺工啦疫情啦等等的現在的確我們這個在\n\n19\n00:06:43,513 --> 00:07:02,657\n接應黃線的施工真的是有遇到的困難那當然最主要的困難就是經費的困難那基本上上一次追加減預算我也提了就是給工程會給那個相關的單位交通部等等的我們從108年、111年、112年這個基本上包括這一次110\n\n20\n00:07:08,318 --> 00:07:18,091\n3年的9月我們這個變更計畫也都已經完成了所以這個部分其實也謝謝工程會的協助那現在還有一個就是說我們那個工程預備會\n\n21\n00:07:19,482 --> 00:07:43,400\n工程預備費希望說現在追加之後但是後面還是有可能會有誤調後面其實還是會有一些增加的機會其實我們也滿擔心這個工程要如期完成還需要很多不少的協助那目前交通部給我們的答應預定是7%啦那當然7%在誤調之後\n\n22\n00:07:46,072 --> 00:07:49,093\n市府本來是希望15%中央是7%一半差不多11%12%\n\n23\n00:08:13,644 --> 00:08:13,944\n許智傑委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4664\t28298\t謝謝主席,我們請主委請陳主委委員早主委早我想主委的工作報告就是捐贈臺灣,捐贈董事館等等的我們也希望算能夠加強處理另外其實我長期在關心的就是政府採購制度\n30595\t60078\t我們也希望說工程會能夠盡量推動增豐跟主計的參與那這樣子可以協助工程就是避免那讓新宿不正的人有機會去操作那如果是新宿很正的人也避免受到那個不必要的質疑所以其實增豐跟主計我覺得我們都是相當希望說他能夠辛苦一點多參與\n60558\t61078\t發言委員．許智傑\n87492\t97874\t那第一期的第二期現在在絕標階段那請教一下第一期一之一這個立體停車場同胞這個工程政風跟佐計不知道有沒有參與\n102172\t122109\t我們再瞭解看看不過政風跟主計一般在辦理這種招標的主辦機關他同時就可以邀請主計或政風在開標等於決標的過程當中全程參與對所以其實我就跟主委上一次主委第一次質詢的時候跟主委報告過就是說\n123710\t149446\t其實政風跟組織的參與我覺得蠻重要的公務員有沒有擔當事實上跟政風組織的參與也很關係如果今天其實那個大金額的絕標工程今天如果是用最低價標我們知道都可能會影響到品質所以我一直希望說政風跟組織可以多參與那就是說你今天大工程的招標因為其實最容易做手的也是大工程\n150892\t167775\t啊所以呢其實這個部分評審標的話就有力標的話事實上就是說我們擔心就是如果心術不正的人去參與這一個大的標案啊如果沒有政府跟組織參與有可能就會有事相說說或綁標的情形\n168556\t182526\t好那如果是新宿很正的有擔當的公務員他真的是選到最好的那也怕外界質疑或者是有時候其實我一直有一句話就是說如果檢察官爛宿會造成公務員不敢容易認識\n183607\t200297\t所以我們會讓有擔當的公務員就是說有政治有政風跟組織的參與事實上你就可以很大聲的很心裡沒有問題的告訴他你看我完全都是公平公正公開那我就是挑最適合的最有利標來做這個工程\n201274\t217648\t根據我的瞭解跟經驗現在這種政府公共工程的採購啊政風主計在場的比例是蠻普遍的啦一般承辦的主管都會希望政風也在場對其實這個就是根據報告從\n219736\t245695\t吳鋒某當工程會主委一直到現在我每一年都會去看政府跟組織參與的比例那以及他最有力標標出去工程標出去的比例那我會去看這個趨勢到底有沒有成長事實上這幾年來我們看到最有力標的訣標事實上政府跟組織的參與跟幫助這個最有力標的實施也看到了成效\n246576\t269785\t所以我會繼續的要求就是說我們工程會也能夠把這個精神再注意因為坦白講最有利標就像那個臺北市政府的那些標案一樣最怕的就是說到底有沒有人心術不正想要從中謀利那你如果說有正風主計從頭到尾參與的話其實這些東西可能就不敢\n271642\t290857\t所以我希望說工程會員師能夠秉持這個原則能夠繼續去要求我們來鼓勵各機關能夠照這樣做那這個是舉這個例子一之一期我只是問問說有沒有參與那一之二期今年也主委陳說希望說能夠完成決標那我們預計2032年可以完成這個主委應該有信心\n300641\t322861\t整個兩期總預算大概900多億那原計劃這個我請副主委李德副主委你來沒事我們時間還不多我們就希望那個主委幫忙多要求其實我還有一個問題下一次再問現在沒有時間問其實交通部一直跟我說要16年我就覺得怎麼會要這麼久\n324518\t338692\t那工程會是不是可以去協助一下就是說他分半半施工那一個半就是8年一個半就是8年兩個要16年你像那個泰國青麥機場5年就完工了全部就做完了他是國內線跟國\n340313\t363335\t我知道我知道所以他辦辦事工我知道我是說那個時間有沒有機會再縮短我們想辦法來要求工程會有沒有辦法去給他們比較專業的工程上的指導我們來協助民航局對可以把那個時間縮短的部分能夠在界面上多整合來縮短事工好這個拜託工程會能夠協助啦因為我一直對這16年\n365237\t367159\t最後一個就是我們捷運黃線現在我們預計2030年能夠完成\n387569\t399567\t那目前的確是遇到問題也需要工程會協助就是我們在經過這個最近就是物條啦缺工啦疫情啦等等的現在的確我們這個在\n403513\t422657\t接應黃線的施工真的是有遇到的困難那當然最主要的困難就是經費的困難那基本上上一次追加減預算我也提了就是給工程會給那個相關的單位交通部等等的我們從108年、111年、112年這個基本上包括這一次110\n428318\t438091\t3年的9月我們這個變更計畫也都已經完成了所以這個部分其實也謝謝工程會的協助那現在還有一個就是說我們那個工程預備會\n439482\t463400\t工程預備費希望說現在追加之後但是後面還是有可能會有誤調後面其實還是會有一些增加的機會其實我們也滿擔心這個工程要如期完成還需要很多不少的協助那目前交通部給我們的答應預定是7%啦那當然7%在誤調之後\n466072\t469093\t市府本來是希望15%中央是7%一半差不多11% 12%\n493644\t493944\t許智傑委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們請主委請陳主委委員早主委早我想主委的工作報告就是捐贈臺灣,捐贈董事館等等的我們也希望算能夠加強處理另外其實我長期在關心的就是政府採購制度\n我們也希望說工程會能夠盡量推動增豐跟主計的參與那這樣子可以協助工程就是避免那讓新宿不正的人有機會去操作那如果是新宿很正的人也避免受到那個不必要的質疑所以其實增豐跟主計我覺得我們都是相當希望說他能夠辛苦一點多參與\n發言委員．許智傑\n那第一期的第二期現在在絕標階段那請教一下第一期一之一這個立體停車場同胞這個工程政風跟佐計不知道有沒有參與\n我們再瞭解看看不過政風跟主計一般在辦理這種招標的主辦機關他同時就可以邀請主計或政風在開標等於決標的過程當中全程參與對所以其實我就跟主委上一次主委第一次質詢的時候跟主委報告過就是說\n其實政風跟組織的參與我覺得蠻重要的公務員有沒有擔當事實上跟政風組織的參與也很關係如果今天其實那個大金額的絕標工程今天如果是用最低價標我們知道都可能會影響到品質所以我一直希望說政風跟組織可以多參與那就是說你今天大工程的招標因為其實最容易做手的也是大工程\n啊所以呢其實這個部分評審標的話就有力標的話事實上就是說我們擔心就是如果心術不正的人去參與這一個大的標案啊如果沒有政府跟組織參與有可能就會有事相說說或綁標的情形\n好那如果是新宿很正的有擔當的公務員他真的是選到最好的那也怕外界質疑或者是有時候其實我一直有一句話就是說如果檢察官爛宿會造成公務員不敢容易認識\n所以我們會讓有擔當的公務員就是說有政治有政風跟組織的參與事實上你就可以很大聲的很心裡沒有問題的告訴他你看我完全都是公平公正公開那我就是挑最適合的最有利標來做這個工程\n根據我的瞭解跟經驗現在這種政府公共工程的採購啊政風主計在場的比例是蠻普遍的啦一般承辦的主管都會希望政風也在場對其實這個就是根據報告從\n吳鋒某當工程會主委一直到現在我每一年都會去看政府跟組織參與的比例那以及他最有力標標出去工程標出去的比例那我會去看這個趨勢到底有沒有成長事實上這幾年來我們看到最有力標的訣標事實上政府跟組織的參與跟幫助這個最有力標的實施也看到了成效\n所以我會繼續的要求就是說我們工程會也能夠把這個精神再注意因為坦白講最有利標就像那個臺北市政府的那些標案一樣最怕的就是說到底有沒有人心術不正想要從中謀利那你如果說有正風主計從頭到尾參與的話其實這些東西可能就不敢\n所以我希望說工程會員師能夠秉持這個原則能夠繼續去要求我們來鼓勵各機關能夠照這樣做那這個是舉這個例子一之一期我只是問問說有沒有參與那一之二期今年也主委陳說希望說能夠完成決標那我們預計2032年可以完成這個主委應該有信心\n整個兩期總預算大概900多億那原計劃這個我請副主委李德副主委你來沒事我們時間還不多我們就希望那個主委幫忙多要求其實我還有一個問題下一次再問現在沒有時間問其實交通部一直跟我說要16年我就覺得怎麼會要這麼久\n那工程會是不是可以去協助一下就是說他分半半施工那一個半就是8年一個半就是8年兩個要16年你像那個泰國青麥機場5年就完工了全部就做完了他是國內線跟國\n我知道我知道所以他辦辦事工我知道我是說那個時間有沒有機會再縮短我們想辦法來要求工程會有沒有辦法去給他們比較專業的工程上的指導我們來協助民航局對可以把那個時間縮短的部分能夠在界面上多整合來縮短事工好這個拜託工程會能夠協助啦因為我一直對這16年\n最後一個就是我們捷運黃線現在我們預計2030年能夠完成\n那目前的確是遇到問題也需要工程會協助就是我們在經過這個最近就是物條啦缺工啦疫情啦等等的現在的確我們這個在\n接應黃線的施工真的是有遇到的困難那當然最主要的困難就是經費的困難那基本上上一次追加減預算我也提了就是給工程會給那個相關的單位交通部等等的我們從108年、111年、112年這個基本上包括這一次110\n3年的9月我們這個變更計畫也都已經完成了所以這個部分其實也謝謝工程會的協助那現在還有一個就是說我們那個工程預備會\n工程預備費希望說現在追加之後但是後面還是有可能會有誤調後面其實還是會有一些增加的機會其實我們也滿擔心這個工程要如期完成還需要很多不少的協助那目前交通部給我們的答應預定是7%啦那當然7%在誤調之後\n市府本來是希望15%中央是7%一半差不多11% 12%\n許智傑委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.664 --> 00:28.298\n謝謝主席,我們請主委請陳主委委員早主委早我想主委的工作報告就是捐贈臺灣,捐贈董事館等等的我們也希望算能夠加強處理另外其實我長期在關心的就是政府採購制度\n\n00:30.595 --> 01:00.078\n我們也希望說工程會能夠盡量推動增豐跟主計的參與那這樣子可以協助工程就是避免那讓新宿不正的人有機會去操作那如果是新宿很正的人也避免受到那個不必要的質疑所以其實增豐跟主計我覺得我們都是相當希望說他能夠辛苦一點多參與\n\n01:00.558 --> 01:01.078\n發言委員．許智傑\n\n01:27.492 --> 01:37.874\n那第一期的第二期現在在絕標階段那請教一下第一期一之一這個立體停車場同胞這個工程政風跟佐計不知道有沒有參與\n\n01:42.172 --> 02:02.109\n我們再瞭解看看不過政風跟主計一般在辦理這種招標的主辦機關他同時就可以邀請主計或政風在開標等於決標的過程當中全程參與對所以其實我就跟主委上一次主委第一次質詢的時候跟主委報告過就是說\n\n02:03.710 --> 02:29.446\n其實政風跟組織的參與我覺得蠻重要的公務員有沒有擔當事實上跟政風組織的參與也很關係如果今天其實那個大金額的絕標工程今天如果是用最低價標我們知道都可能會影響到品質所以我一直希望說政風跟組織可以多參與那就是說你今天大工程的招標因為其實最容易做手的也是大工程\n\n02:30.892 --> 02:47.775\n啊所以呢其實這個部分評審標的話就有力標的話事實上就是說我們擔心就是如果心術不正的人去參與這一個大的標案啊如果沒有政府跟組織參與有可能就會有事相說說或綁標的情形\n\n02:48.556 --> 03:02.526\n好那如果是新宿很正的有擔當的公務員他真的是選到最好的那也怕外界質疑或者是有時候其實我一直有一句話就是說如果檢察官爛宿會造成公務員不敢容易認識\n\n03:03.607 --> 03:20.297\n所以我們會讓有擔當的公務員就是說有政治有政風跟組織的參與事實上你就可以很大聲的很心裡沒有問題的告訴他你看我完全都是公平公正公開那我就是挑最適合的最有利標來做這個工程\n\n03:21.274 --> 03:37.648\n根據我的瞭解跟經驗現在這種政府公共工程的採購啊政風主計在場的比例是蠻普遍的啦一般承辦的主管都會希望政風也在場對其實這個就是根據報告從\n\n03:39.736 --> 04:05.695\n吳鋒某當工程會主委一直到現在我每一年都會去看政府跟組織參與的比例那以及他最有力標標出去工程標出去的比例那我會去看這個趨勢到底有沒有成長事實上這幾年來我們看到最有力標的訣標事實上政府跟組織的參與跟幫助這個最有力標的實施也看到了成效\n\n04:06.576 --> 04:29.785\n所以我會繼續的要求就是說我們工程會也能夠把這個精神再注意因為坦白講最有利標就像那個臺北市政府的那些標案一樣最怕的就是說到底有沒有人心術不正想要從中謀利那你如果說有正風主計從頭到尾參與的話其實這些東西可能就不敢\n\n04:31.642 --> 04:50.857\n所以我希望說工程會員師能夠秉持這個原則能夠繼續去要求我們來鼓勵各機關能夠照這樣做那這個是舉這個例子一之一期我只是問問說有沒有參與那一之二期今年也主委陳說希望說能夠完成決標那我們預計2032年可以完成這個主委應該有信心\n\n05:00.641 --> 05:22.861\n整個兩期總預算大概900多億那原計劃這個我請副主委李德副主委你來沒事我們時間還不多我們就希望那個主委幫忙多要求其實我還有一個問題下一次再問現在沒有時間問其實交通部一直跟我說要16年我就覺得怎麼會要這麼久\n\n05:24.518 --> 05:38.692\n那工程會是不是可以去協助一下就是說他分半半施工那一個半就是8年一個半就是8年兩個要16年你像那個泰國青麥機場5年就完工了全部就做完了他是國內線跟國\n\n05:40.313 --> 06:03.335\n我知道我知道所以他辦辦事工我知道我是說那個時間有沒有機會再縮短我們想辦法來要求工程會有沒有辦法去給他們比較專業的工程上的指導我們來協助民航局對可以把那個時間縮短的部分能夠在界面上多整合來縮短事工好這個拜託工程會能夠協助啦因為我一直對這16年\n\n06:05.237 --> 06:07.159\n最後一個就是我們捷運黃線現在我們預計2030年能夠完成\n\n06:27.569 --> 06:39.567\n那目前的確是遇到問題也需要工程會協助就是我們在經過這個最近就是物條啦缺工啦疫情啦等等的現在的確我們這個在\n\n06:43.513 --> 07:02.657\n接應黃線的施工真的是有遇到的困難那當然最主要的困難就是經費的困難那基本上上一次追加減預算我也提了就是給工程會給那個相關的單位交通部等等的我們從108年、111年、112年這個基本上包括這一次110\n\n07:08.318 --> 07:18.091\n3年的9月我們這個變更計畫也都已經完成了所以這個部分其實也謝謝工程會的協助那現在還有一個就是說我們那個工程預備會\n\n07:19.482 --> 07:43.400\n工程預備費希望說現在追加之後但是後面還是有可能會有誤調後面其實還是會有一些增加的機會其實我們也滿擔心這個工程要如期完成還需要很多不少的協助那目前交通部給我們的答應預定是7%啦那當然7%在誤調之後\n\n07:46.072 --> 07:49.093\n市府本來是希望15%中央是7%一半差不多11%12%\n\n08:13.644 --> 08:13.944\n許智傑委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.664,"end":28.298,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請主委請陳主委委員早主委早我想主委的工作報告就是捐贈臺灣,捐贈董事館等等的我們也希望算能夠加強處理另外其實我長期在關心的就是政府採購制度"},{"start":30.595,"end":60.078,"text":"我們也希望說工程會能夠盡量推動增豐跟主計的參與那這樣子可以協助工程就是避免那讓新宿不正的人有機會去操作那如果是新宿很正的人也避免受到那個不必要的質疑所以其實增豐跟主計我覺得我們都是相當希望說他能夠辛苦一點多參與"},{"start":60.558,"end":61.078,"text":"發言委員．許智傑"},{"start":87.492,"end":97.874,"text":"那第一期的第二期現在在絕標階段那請教一下第一期一之一這個立體停車場同胞這個工程政風跟佐計不知道有沒有參與"},{"start":102.172,"end":122.109,"text":"我們再瞭解看看不過政風跟主計一般在辦理這種招標的主辦機關他同時就可以邀請主計或政風在開標等於決標的過程當中全程參與對所以其實我就跟主委上一次主委第一次質詢的時候跟主委報告過就是說"},{"start":123.71,"end":149.446,"text":"其實政風跟組織的參與我覺得蠻重要的公務員有沒有擔當事實上跟政風組織的參與也很關係如果今天其實那個大金額的絕標工程今天如果是用最低價標我們知道都可能會影響到品質所以我一直希望說政風跟組織可以多參與那就是說你今天大工程的招標因為其實最容易做手的也是大工程"},{"start":150.892,"end":167.775,"text":"啊所以呢其實這個部分評審標的話就有力標的話事實上就是說我們擔心就是如果心術不正的人去參與這一個大的標案啊如果沒有政府跟組織參與有可能就會有事相說說或綁標的情形"},{"start":168.556,"end":182.526,"text":"好那如果是新宿很正的有擔當的公務員他真的是選到最好的那也怕外界質疑或者是有時候其實我一直有一句話就是說如果檢察官爛宿會造成公務員不敢容易認識"},{"start":183.607,"end":200.297,"text":"所以我們會讓有擔當的公務員就是說有政治有政風跟組織的參與事實上你就可以很大聲的很心裡沒有問題的告訴他你看我完全都是公平公正公開那我就是挑最適合的最有利標來做這個工程"},{"start":201.274,"end":217.648,"text":"根據我的瞭解跟經驗現在這種政府公共工程的採購啊政風主計在場的比例是蠻普遍的啦一般承辦的主管都會希望政風也在場對其實這個就是根據報告從"},{"start":219.736,"end":245.695,"text":"吳鋒某當工程會主委一直到現在我每一年都會去看政府跟組織參與的比例那以及他最有力標標出去工程標出去的比例那我會去看這個趨勢到底有沒有成長事實上這幾年來我們看到最有力標的訣標事實上政府跟組織的參與跟幫助這個最有力標的實施也看到了成效"},{"start":246.576,"end":269.785,"text":"所以我會繼續的要求就是說我們工程會也能夠把這個精神再注意因為坦白講最有利標就像那個臺北市政府的那些標案一樣最怕的就是說到底有沒有人心術不正想要從中謀利那你如果說有正風主計從頭到尾參與的話其實這些東西可能就不敢"},{"start":271.642,"end":290.857,"text":"所以我希望說工程會員師能夠秉持這個原則能夠繼續去要求我們來鼓勵各機關能夠照這樣做那這個是舉這個例子一之一期我只是問問說有沒有參與那一之二期今年也主委陳說希望說能夠完成決標那我們預計2032年可以完成這個主委應該有信心"},{"start":300.641,"end":322.861,"text":"整個兩期總預算大概900多億那原計劃這個我請副主委李德副主委你來沒事我們時間還不多我們就希望那個主委幫忙多要求其實我還有一個問題下一次再問現在沒有時間問其實交通部一直跟我說要16年我就覺得怎麼會要這麼久"},{"start":324.518,"end":338.692,"text":"那工程會是不是可以去協助一下就是說他分半半施工那一個半就是8年一個半就是8年兩個要16年你像那個泰國青麥機場5年就完工了全部就做完了他是國內線跟國"},{"start":340.313,"end":363.335,"text":"我知道我知道所以他辦辦事工我知道我是說那個時間有沒有機會再縮短我們想辦法來要求工程會有沒有辦法去給他們比較專業的工程上的指導我們來協助民航局對可以把那個時間縮短的部分能夠在界面上多整合來縮短事工好這個拜託工程會能夠協助啦因為我一直對這16年"},{"start":365.237,"end":367.159,"text":"最後一個就是我們捷運黃線現在我們預計2030年能夠完成"},{"start":387.569,"end":399.567,"text":"那目前的確是遇到問題也需要工程會協助就是我們在經過這個最近就是物條啦缺工啦疫情啦等等的現在的確我們這個在"},{"start":403.513,"end":422.657,"text":"接應黃線的施工真的是有遇到的困難那當然最主要的困難就是經費的困難那基本上上一次追加減預算我也提了就是給工程會給那個相關的單位交通部等等的我們從108年、111年、112年這個基本上包括這一次110"},{"start":428.318,"end":438.091,"text":"3年的9月我們這個變更計畫也都已經完成了所以這個部分其實也謝謝工程會的協助那現在還有一個就是說我們那個工程預備會"},{"start":439.482,"end":463.4,"text":"工程預備費希望說現在追加之後但是後面還是有可能會有誤調後面其實還是會有一些增加的機會其實我們也滿擔心這個工程要如期完成還需要很多不少的協助那目前交通部給我們的答應預定是7%啦那當然7%在誤調之後"},{"start":466.072,"end":469.093,"text":"市府本來是希望15%中央是7%一半差不多11% 12%"},{"start":493.644,"end":493.944,"text":"許智傑委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:23:20 - 09:31:56","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154936,"gazette":{"lineno":85,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（9時23分）謝謝主席，我們請主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["許委員智傑：主委早。我想主委的工作報告就是均衡臺灣、淨零轉型等等，我們也希望能夠加強處理啦。另外，我長期在關心的就是政府採購制度，我們也希望工程會能夠儘量推動政風跟主計的參與，這樣子可以協助工程避免被心術不正的人有機會去操作，也避免心術很正的人受到不必要的質疑，所以對於政風跟主計，我覺得我們都相當希望他們能夠辛苦一點多參與，讓我們的工程可以進行得更好。請問主委，我們高雄機場的發包不知道政風跟主計有沒有參與？"],["陳主任委員金德：這個還在設計階段，審議設計階段……"],["許委員智傑：它有兩期……"],["陳主任委員金德：設計才剛完成審查而已。"],["許委員智傑：它是半半施工嘛，那第一期還分兩期嘛，第一期的「1-1」已經發包出去了嘛，第一期的「1-2」現在在決標階段。請教一下，第一期「1-1」的立體停車場統包工程，政風跟主計不知道有沒有參與？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們再了解看看，不過政風跟主計，一般在辦理這種招標的主辦機關同時就可以邀請主計或政風在開標、決標的過程當中全程參與。"],["許委員智傑：對，上一次主委第一次來備詢的時候我跟主委報告過嘛，其實政風跟主計的參與我覺得滿重要的，公務員有沒有擔當，事實上跟政風、主計的參與也很有關係，如果大金額的決標工程是用最低價標，我們知道都有可能會影響到品質，所以我一直希望政風跟主計可以多參與，就是今天大工程的招標，因為其實最容易做手的也是大工程啦，所以這個部分評審標的話、最有利標的話，事實上我們擔心如果心術不正的人去參與這一個大的標案，又沒有政風跟主計參與，有可能就會有私相授受或綁標的情形，那如果是心術很正、有擔當的公務員，他真的是選到最好的，也怕外界質疑。其實我一直有一句話就是，如果檢察官濫訴，會造成公務員不敢勇於任事。所以我們希望讓有擔當的公務員，在政風跟主計的參與之下，他就可以很大聲的、心裡沒有問題的說出他完全都是公平、公正、公開的，就是挑最適合的最有利標來做這個工程。"],["陳主任委員金德：根據我的了解跟經驗，現在這種政府公共工程的採購，政風、主計在場的比例是滿普遍的啦，一般承辦的主管都會希望政風也在場。"],["許委員智傑：對。跟主委報告，從吳宏謀當工程會主委一直到現在，我每一年都會去看政風跟主計參與的比例，以及最有利標所標出去的工程比例，我會去看這一個趨勢到底有沒有成長。事實上這幾年來我們看到最有利標的決標，政風跟主計的參與跟幫助對這個最有利標的實施，也看到了成效，所以我會繼續要求我們工程會也能夠把這個精神再注意啦！因為坦白講，最有利標，就像臺北市政府的那些標案一樣，最怕的就是到底有沒有人心術不正，想要從中謀利，如果有政風、主計從頭到尾參與的話，其實這些東西可能就不敢，所以我希望工程會還是能夠秉持這個原則，能夠繼續去要求。"],["陳主任委員金德：好，我們來鼓勵各機關能夠照這樣做。"],["許委員智傑：好，這個是舉這個例子啦，「1-1」期我只是問問說有沒有參與啦，至於「1-2」期，主委也曾說希望今年能夠完成決標嘛，我們預計2032年可以完成，這個主委應該有信心啦？"],["陳主任委員金德：整個兩期總預算大概九百多億啦，這個我請副主委來說明。"],["許委員智傑：沒關係，我的時間也不多，我們就希望主委幫忙多要求。我還有一個問題，下一次再問，現在沒有時間問了。其實交通部一直跟我說要16年，我是覺得怎麼要這麼久，工程會是不是可以去協助一下？它是半半施工，一個半就是8年，一個半就是8年，兩個要16年，像泰國清邁機場5年就完工了，全部就做完了！"],["陳主任委員金德：它是國內線跟國際線不能夠同時進行。"],["許委員智傑：對，我知道，所以半半施工，這個我知道，我說的是時間的部分有沒有機會再縮短？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們想辦法來要求……"],["許委員智傑：工程會有沒有辦法給他們比較專業的、工程上的指導？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們來協助民航局，關於……"],["許委員智傑：對，可以把那個時間縮短。"],["陳主任委員金德：關於小港機場的部分，能夠在介面上多整合，來縮短施工的期限。"],["許委員智傑：好，這個拜託工程會能夠協助啦，因為我一直對這個16年就覺得好久、好久、好久，為什麼不能快一點？泰國一個清邁機場5年就完工了，當然，穿著衣服改衣服比較不好改，但是總是不要改那麼久。","最後一個就是我們捷運黃線，捷運黃線現在我們預計2030年能夠完成嘛，目前的確是遇到問題，也需要工程會協助，就是我們經過了物調、缺工、疫情等等，現在的確我們在捷運黃線的施工真的也遇到了困難，當然最主要的困難就是經費的困難。基本上，上一次的追加減預算，我也提給相關的工程會以及交通部等等的單位，我們從108年、111年、112年，包括這一次113年的9月，我們的變更計畫也都已經完成了，這個部分也謝謝工程會的協助。現在還有一個就是工程預備費，工程預備費希望說現在追加之後，但是後面還是有可能會有物調，後面其實還是會有一些增加的機會，其實我們也滿擔心，這個工程要如期完成還需要很多的協助，目前交通部答應給我們的預訂是7%，當然，7%在物調之後我們覺得不夠，高雄市政府跟工程會還有一個協調的會議，我希望是不是主委這邊可以多幫忙？"],["陳主任委員金德：好，我們再來協調高雄市政府跟交通部以及相關的機關單位。"],["許委員智傑：市府本來是希望15%，中央是給7%，一半差不多11%、12%……"],["陳主任委員金德：我們再來協調。"],["許委員智傑：再拜託主委。主委，你是我們高雄市副市長出身的，所以對於高雄市這個部分，希望主委能夠多花點心力，這個部分在需要工程會意見的時候，也希望工程會可以多幫忙。"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["許委員智傑：副主委也是，所以希望我們主委、副主委能夠多幫忙。拜託、感謝。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑委員的質詢。","接下來邀請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","speakers":["陳素月","林俊憲","許智傑","黃健豪","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","廖先翔","魯明哲","邱若華","蔡其昌","林國成","游顥","徐富癸","黃國昌","洪孟楷","王美惠","廖偉翔","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","王鴻薇","陳俊宇","李柏毅","羅智強","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00013"}}}