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{\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 51.83, \"end\": 53.371, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 53.371, \"end\": 53.532, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 53.532, \"end\": 53.752, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 53.752, \"end\": 53.932, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 53.932, \"end\": 54.032, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 54.032, \"end\": 55.993, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 55.993, \"end\": 56.854, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 56.854, \"end\": 57.354, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 57.354, \"end\": 57.494, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 57.494, \"end\": 57.694, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 57.694, \"end\": 58.155, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 58.155, \"end\": 58.635, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 58.635, \"end\": 58.875, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 58.875, \"end\": 59.536, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 59.536, \"end\": 60.756, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 60.756, \"end\": 60.937, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 60.937, \"end\": 61.097, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 61.097, \"end\": 61.257, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 61.257, \"end\": 61.937, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 61.937, \"end\": 62.237, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 62.237, \"end\": 62.377, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 62.377, \"end\": 62.678, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 62.678, \"end\": 62.858, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 62.858, \"end\": 63.959, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 63.959, \"end\": 64.219, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 64.219, \"end\": 64.979, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 64.979, \"end\": 65.139, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 65.139, \"end\": 65.44, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 65.44, \"end\": 65.58, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 65.58, \"end\": 65.82, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 65.82, \"end\": 66.34, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 66.34, \"end\": 66.56, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 66.56, \"end\": 66.88, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"階\"}, {\"word\": \"段\", 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71.223, \"end\": 71.744, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 71.744, \"end\": 71.964, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 71.964, \"end\": 72.124, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 72.124, \"end\": 72.304, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 72.304, \"end\": 72.764, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"橫\"}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 72.764, \"end\": 73.385, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 73.385, \"end\": 73.605, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.605, \"end\": 73.805, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 73.805, \"end\": 73.945, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 73.945, \"end\": 74.105, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 74.105, \"end\": 74.305, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 74.305, \"end\": 74.546, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 74.546, \"end\": 74.766, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 74.766, \"end\": 74.866, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 74.866, \"end\": 75.226, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 75.226, \"end\": 75.386, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 75.386, \"end\": 75.466, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 75.466, \"end\": 75.486, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}]}, {\"start\": 76.747, \"end\": 94.472, \"text\": \"那未來比例減板減少多少?主委說你要下放到變成是各招標機關自己來決定到時候你們會去協調這個環境部去訂相關的標準嗎?還是一樣由各主管機關自己決定多少叫做減碳符合這個減少溫室氣體排放的標準?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 76.747, \"end\": 76.887, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 76.887, \"end\": 77.207, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 77.207, \"end\": 77.327, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 77.327, \"end\": 77.727, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"板\", \"start\": 77.727, \"end\": 78.107, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 78.107, \"end\": 78.247, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 78.247, \"end\": 78.347, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 78.347, \"end\": 79.348, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 79.348, \"end\": 79.468, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 79.468, \"end\": 79.828, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 79.828, \"end\": 79.948, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 79.948, \"end\": 81.008, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 81.008, \"end\": 81.248, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 81.248, \"end\": 81.448, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 81.448, \"end\": 81.768, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 81.768, \"end\": 81.868, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 81.868, \"end\": 82.108, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 82.108, \"end\": 82.929, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"招\", \"start\": 82.929, \"end\": 83.649, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 83.649, \"end\": 83.749, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 83.749, \"end\": 84.109, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 84.109, \"end\": 84.929, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 84.929, \"end\": 85.249, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 85.249, \"end\": 85.589, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 85.589, \"end\": 86.01, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 86.01, \"end\": 87.23, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 87.23, \"end\": 87.41, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 87.41, \"end\": 87.77, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 87.77, \"end\": 87.93, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"訂\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 87.93, \"end\": 88.17, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 88.17, \"end\": 88.47, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 88.47, \"end\": 88.85, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 88.85, \"end\": 88.99, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 88.99, \"end\": 89.35, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 89.35, \"end\": 89.571, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 89.571, \"end\": 89.731, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 89.731, \"end\": 89.851, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 89.851, \"end\": 90.211, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 90.211, \"end\": 90.311, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 90.311, \"end\": 90.511, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 90.511, \"end\": 91.031, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 91.031, \"end\": 91.231, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 91.231, \"end\": 91.431, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"叫\", \"start\": 91.431, \"end\": 91.511, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 91.511, \"end\": 91.891, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 91.891, \"end\": 92.131, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"符\", \"start\": 92.131, \"end\": 92.251, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 92.251, \"end\": 92.791, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 92.791, \"end\": 93.552, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"溫\"}, {\"word\": \"室\", \"start\": 93.552, \"end\": 93.932, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 93.932, \"end\": 94.052, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 94.052, \"end\": 94.172, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 94.172, \"end\": 94.452, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 94.452, \"end\": 94.472, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 96.411, \"end\": 123.549, \"text\": \"我想這個應該是希望各主辦機關來決定他應該每個工程有不同的考量所以檢探在這個工程裡面是要站到什麼程度各主辦機關他的這個訂定我想是機關的權利環境部不會訂一個整體的標準嗎我想要問一下環境部\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 96.411, \"end\": 96.531, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 96.531, \"end\": 97.632, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 97.632, \"end\": 98.632, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 98.632, \"end\": 98.773, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 98.773, \"end\": 98.993, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 98.993, \"end\": 99.433, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 99.433, \"end\": 101.494, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 101.494, \"end\": 102.255, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 102.255, \"end\": 102.675, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 102.675, \"end\": 103.015, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 103.015, \"end\": 103.195, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 103.195, \"end\": 103.275, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 103.275, \"end\": 103.396, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 103.396, \"end\": 103.536, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 103.536, \"end\": 103.776, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.776, \"end\": 104.756, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 104.756, \"end\": 104.937, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 104.937, \"end\": 105.837, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 105.837, \"end\": 106.017, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 106.017, \"end\": 106.237, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"探\", \"start\": 106.237, \"end\": 106.457, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 106.457, \"end\": 106.998, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 106.998, \"end\": 107.178, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 107.178, \"end\": 107.458, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 107.458, \"end\": 107.618, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 107.618, \"end\": 107.718, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 107.718, \"end\": 107.958, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 107.958, \"end\": 108.179, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 108.179, \"end\": 108.359, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 108.359, \"end\": 108.899, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 108.899, \"end\": 109.159, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 109.159, \"end\": 109.66, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 109.66, \"end\": 109.82, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 109.82, \"end\": 110.46, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 110.46, \"end\": 110.66, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 110.66, \"end\": 113.282, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"訂\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 113.282, \"end\": 113.862, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 113.862, \"end\": 113.942, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 113.942, \"end\": 114.303, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 114.303, \"end\": 115.183, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 115.183, \"end\": 115.483, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 196.602, \"end\": 197.002, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 197.002, \"end\": 197.262, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 197.262, \"end\": 197.982, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 197.982, \"end\": 198.182, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 198.182, \"end\": 198.202, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 216.231, \"end\": 223.665, \"text\": \"9月初就安排去不好意思因為那天剛好立法院召委你9月初就決定要去你知道我們什麼時候收到通知嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 216.231, \"end\": 216.451, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 216.451, \"end\": 216.671, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 216.671, \"end\": 216.812, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 216.812, \"end\": 217.012, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 217.012, \"end\": 217.273, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 217.273, \"end\": 217.914, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 217.914, 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\"start\": 221.22, \"end\": 221.701, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 221.701, \"end\": 221.841, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"初\", \"start\": 221.841, \"end\": 221.961, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 221.961, \"end\": 222.202, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 222.202, \"end\": 222.322, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 222.322, \"end\": 222.482, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 222.482, \"end\": 222.623, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 222.623, \"end\": 222.703, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 222.703, \"end\": 222.743, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 222.743, \"end\": 222.883, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 222.883, \"end\": 223.024, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 223.024, \"end\": 223.124, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 223.124, \"end\": 223.264, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 223.264, \"end\": 223.364, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 223.364, \"end\": 223.464, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 223.464, \"end\": 223.645, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 223.645, \"end\": 223.665, \"score\": 0.209}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 224.619, \"end\": 252.779, \"text\": \"我們9月24我們下午我們立法院的委員們臺中就是臺中的捷運沿線的委員都是9月24的中午過後我們才收到這個通知好那你很早以前就決定然後9月5早上要去但9月5早上剛好立法院開議要選召委所以沒有一個委員本人能夠親自去現場去給你簡單的這個報告讓你瞭解一下地方建設的狀況所以你看這個照片大多只能派助理好不好主委\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 224.619, \"end\": 224.999, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 224.999, \"end\": 226.28, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 226.28, \"end\": 226.54, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 226.54, \"end\": 226.7, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"午\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 382.653, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 382.653, \"end\": 382.733, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 382.733, \"end\": 382.893, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 382.893, \"end\": 383.013, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 383.013, \"end\": 383.133, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 383.133, \"end\": 383.374, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 383.374, \"end\": 383.514, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 383.514, \"end\": 383.534, \"score\": 0.291}]}, {\"start\": 383.934, \"end\": 403.862, \"text\": \"那這一次臺中捷運除了藍線之外未來除了捷運藍線那包含捷運綠線延伸包含捷運橘線有可能同一時間臺中同時有很多的捷運工程在進行那我想問工程會這邊有什麼樣的手段或是有什麼樣的建議讓市府在招標的過程裡面不要再發生過去這些年下來這種捷運工程大量流暴的狀況\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 383.934, \"end\": 384.234, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 384.234, \"end\": 384.354, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 384.354, \"end\": 384.694, \"score\": 0.939}, 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00:00:46,506\n平選辦法陣列這一條那它用在了後續的所有公共工程還在實施選項之一還有推動這樣的這個平選因為減少溫室氣體排放這個是一個很籠統的這個形容詞啦那到底減少多少會被列為平選的標準\n\n3\n00:00:48,408 --> 00:01:15,486\n我想這個是機關在辦理招標的時候決標方式是用評審的話那麼評審有很多項目那我們這個是這個規劃是希望在評審項目裡面能夠增加這個碳排減碳的這樣的考量所以現階段來講這個東西只是鼓勵還不是強制嗎鼓勵然後各機關他自己去橫著看是比例是多少我想這個是主辦機關的選擇\n\n4\n00:01:16,747 --> 00:01:34,472\n那未來比例減板減少多少?主委說你要下放到變成是各招標機關自己來決定到時候你們會去協調這個環境部去訂相關的標準嗎?還是一樣由各主管機關自己決定多少叫做減碳符合這個減少溫室氣體排放的標準?\n\n5\n00:01:36,411 --> 00:02:03,549\n我想這個應該是希望各主辦機關來決定他應該每個工程有不同的考量所以檢探在這個工程裡面是要站到什麼程度各主辦機關他的這個訂定我想是機關的權利環境部不會訂一個整體的標準嗎我想要問一下環境部\n\n6\n00:02:04,434 --> 00:02:30,387\n那這個是因為是納入這個評選決標的過程裡面所以當然廠商會提他的相關計畫嘛這個案的相關計畫這個計畫裡面包括安全啊等等檢探的計畫所以那評選委員可以針對這些計畫去認為他是做的好不好有沒有達成效果好不好所以那個分數啊比例還是主辦機關去這個檢探是占5%或占2%或占10%\n\n7\n00:02:33,268 --> 00:02:33,889\n我們再跟環境部商量\n\n8\n00:02:51,101 --> 00:03:13,621\n對阿,這樣子大家廠商他們才有一個方向才有辦法依據嘛,不然到底減少多少就是說符合最有利標的標準,不如如果又放到各單位去做,那其實跟現在其實差不多啦,因為現在其實本來你的技術表裡面本來就有說針對環境保護會對環境影響多少等等的,它本來就可以放進這個相關的評選標準,但是因為過去都沒有訂定所謂的數字,那裡面訂定數字當然大家各單位各行其事嘛,\n\n9\n00:03:14,581 --> 00:03:18,202\n主委你什麼時候決定要去的?我們這個行程安排很早\n\n10\n00:03:36,231 --> 00:03:43,665\n9月初就安排去不好意思因為那天剛好立法院召委你9月初就決定要去你知道我們什麼時候收到通知嗎\n\n11\n00:03:44,619 --> 00:04:12,779\n我們9月24我們下午我們立法院的委員們臺中就是臺中的捷運沿線的委員都是9月24的中午過後我們才收到這個通知好那你很早以前就決定然後9月5早上要去但9月5早上剛好立法院開議要選召委所以沒有一個委員本人能夠親自去現場去給你簡單的這個報告讓你瞭解一下地方建設的狀況所以你看這個照片大多只能派助理好不好主委\n\n12\n00:04:13,917 --> 00:04:29,521\n這個以後這種重大工程大家一定都非常關切的通知可能是慢了一點這個部分拜託主委未來這個相關通知要早一點因為那天是去看技術審查所以相關的委員到現場去看\n\n13\n00:04:29,821 --> 00:04:42,525\n好,所以接下來一樣是捷運藍線的部分那當現場有討論到關於這個現在要做的基本設計修正的部分那現場也提到說交通局那邊也提到說希望兩週內能夠送進這個工程會來提標來審查\n\n14\n00:04:46,346 --> 00:04:47,027\n李卓人議員\n\n15\n00:05:02,327 --> 00:05:02,567\n委員會主任\n\n16\n00:05:22,419 --> 00:05:26,102\n基本設計我想這樣來審議有些意見再補正一下會很快年底之前這個合訂這個基本設計是沒有問題的\n\n17\n00:05:39,011 --> 00:06:05,892\n好主委謝謝因為我們就期待說因為這個捷運10年10年前就開始在做相關的文書作業了那10年後我們希望說明年能夠順利的來動用因為這個表定也要蓋10年啊其實真的是非常久那到底10年內能不能完成待會我們會討論一下所以這部分我們希望市府如果兩中內送進了這個工程會那既然大家有相關的共識都有了現場也討論過了我們希望他能夠盡速年底前來把它核定可以嗎好沒有問題\n\n18\n00:06:07,318 --> 00:06:23,534\n那再來我看這個一樣是提到捷運工程的流標的問題我剛剛想說為什麼講10年我們都很擔心能不能做到因為從過去這些年下來包含是北捷的這個各縣也好或是說甚至這個桃園捷運也好我想流標的次數都非常非常多次啊\n\n19\n00:06:23,934 --> 00:06:43,862\n那這一次臺中捷運除了藍線之外未來除了捷運藍線那包含捷運綠線延伸包含捷運橘線有可能同一時間臺中同時有很多的捷運工程在進行那我想問工程會這邊有什麼樣的手段或是有什麼樣的建議讓市府在招標的過程裡面不要再發生過去這些年下來這種捷運工程大量流暴的狀況\n\n20\n00:06:45,267 --> 00:06:59,526\n我想這個因為捷運工程本身就是一個巨額的採購所以能夠做這樣子的捷運工程的廠商不管國內外都很有限加上我們整個物價\n\n21\n00:07:00,768 --> 00:07:01,268\n所謂合理其實就是價格的問題\n\n22\n00:07:26,936 --> 00:07:45,890\n價格裡面又涉及到現在每年就是這種營建土建成本還有我們現在這個勞務標的問題這個部分到工程會議你有沒有標準說讓地方政府或在開票過程裡面有彈性讓它後續不管是物條也好或是它的這個預留相關預算也好\n\n23\n00:07:46,770 --> 00:08:05,335\n這工程會有沒有辦法去輔導嗎還是一樣讓各段各段自己進行我們可以跟臺東市政府來合作來協助啦因為從我們很多禮約爭議的案例來看的確在施作或招標的契約裡面如果說不是那麼的\n\n24\n00:08:06,315 --> 00:08:11,159\n最後一個問題這個是你們自己覺得要政府採訪法規定的各單位本來就要上傳他們的招票案件\n\n25\n00:08:31,357 --> 00:08:49,302\n那也看到其實基本上各單位都做得蠻好的都七八成左右唯獨兩個單位一個是經濟部一個是國防部國防部特別低啊他一上傳件數是149但實際上傳24所以等於說相關的這個政府採購裡面國防部跟經濟部可能是你們\n\n26\n00:08:50,382 --> 00:08:50,402\n韓國瑜\n\n27\n00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:12,341\n黃健豪委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2927\t27199\t好 謝謝主席 那我們一樣請陳主委請陳主委委員長主委早 主委首先我想請教一下這個在今天的這個報告裡面有提到現在預告來修正所謂最有利標的評選辦法裡面有增列了這個減少溫室氣體排放的這個技術項目黃老想問一下他的這個\n28615\t46506\t平選辦法陣列這一條那它用在了後續的所有公共工程還在實施選項之一還有推動這樣的這個平選因為減少溫室氣體排放這個是一個很籠統的這個形容詞啦那到底減少多少會被列為平選的標準\n48408\t75486\t我想這個是機關在辦理招標的時候決標方式是用評審的話那麼評審有很多項目那我們這個是這個規劃是希望在評審項目裡面能夠增加這個碳排減碳的這樣的考量所以現階段來講這個東西只是鼓勵還不是強制嗎鼓勵然後各機關他自己去橫著看是比例是多少我想這個是主辦機關的選擇\n76747\t94472\t那未來比例減板減少多少?主委說你要下放到變成是各招標機關自己來決定到時候你們會去協調這個環境部去訂相關的標準嗎?還是一樣由各主管機關自己決定多少叫做減碳符合這個減少溫室氣體排放的標準?\n96411\t123549\t我想這個應該是希望各主辦機關來決定他應該每個工程有不同的考量所以檢探在這個工程裡面是要站到什麼程度各主辦機關他的這個訂定我想是機關的權利環境部不會訂一個整體的標準嗎我想要問一下環境部\n124434\t150387\t那這個是因為是納入這個評選決標的過程裡面所以當然廠商會提他的相關計畫嘛這個案的相關計畫這個計畫裡面包括安全啊等等檢探的計畫所以那評選委員可以針對這些計畫去認為他是做的好不好有沒有達成效果好不好所以那個分數啊比例還是主辦機關去這個檢探是占5%或占2%或占10%\n153268\t153889\t我們再跟環境部商量\n171101\t193621\t對阿,這樣子大家廠商他們才有一個方向才有辦法依據嘛,不然到底減少多少就是說符合最有利標的標準,不如如果又放到各單位去做,那其實跟現在其實差不多啦,因為現在其實本來你的技術表裡面本來就有說針對環境保護會對環境影響多少等等的,它本來就可以放進這個相關的評選標準,但是因為過去都沒有訂定所謂的數字,那裡面訂定數字當然大家各單位各行其事嘛,\n194581\t198202\t主委你什麼時候決定要去的?我們這個行程安排很早\n216231\t223665\t9月初就安排去不好意思因為那天剛好立法院召委你9月初就決定要去你知道我們什麼時候收到通知嗎\n224619\t252779\t我們9月24我們下午我們立法院的委員們臺中就是臺中的捷運沿線的委員都是9月24的中午過後我們才收到這個通知好那你很早以前就決定然後9月5早上要去但9月5早上剛好立法院開議要選召委所以沒有一個委員本人能夠親自去現場去給你簡單的這個報告讓你瞭解一下地方建設的狀況所以你看這個照片大多只能派助理好不好主委\n253917\t269521\t這個以後這種重大工程大家一定都非常關切的通知可能是慢了一點這個部分拜託主委未來這個相關通知要早一點因為那天是去看技術審查所以相關的委員到現場去看\n269821\t282525\t好,所以接下來一樣是捷運藍線的部分那當現場有討論到關於這個現在要做的基本設計修正的部分那現場也提到說交通局那邊也提到說希望兩週內能夠送進這個工程會來提標來審查\n286346\t287027\t李卓人議員\n302327\t302567\t委員會主任\n322419\t326102\t基本設計我想這樣來審議有些意見再補正一下會很快年底之前這個合訂這個基本設計是沒有問題的\n339011\t365892\t好 主委謝謝 因為我們就期待說因為這個捷運10年10年前就開始在做相關的文書作業了那10年後我們希望說明年能夠順利的來動用因為這個表定也要蓋10年啊其實真的是非常久那到底10年內能不能完成待會我們會討論一下所以這部分我們希望市府如果兩中內送進了這個工程會那既然大家有相關的共識都有了現場也討論過了我們希望他能夠盡速年底前來把它核定可以嗎好 沒有問題\n367318\t383534\t那再來我看這個一樣是提到捷運工程的流標的問題我剛剛想說為什麼講10年我們都很擔心能不能做到因為從過去這些年下來包含是北捷的這個各縣也好或是說甚至這個桃園捷運也好我想流標的次數都非常非常多次啊\n383934\t403862\t那這一次臺中捷運除了藍線之外未來除了捷運藍線那包含捷運綠線延伸包含捷運橘線有可能同一時間臺中同時有很多的捷運工程在進行那我想問工程會這邊有什麼樣的手段或是有什麼樣的建議讓市府在招標的過程裡面不要再發生過去這些年下來這種捷運工程大量流暴的狀況\n405267\t419526\t我想這個因為捷運工程本身就是一個巨額的採購所以能夠做這樣子的捷運工程的廠商不管國內外都很有限加上我們整個物價\n420768\t421268\t所謂合理其實就是價格的問題\n446936\t465890\t價格裡面又涉及到現在每年就是這種營建土建成本還有我們現在這個勞務標的問題這個部分到工程會議你有沒有標準說讓地方政府或在開票過程裡面有彈性讓它後續不管是物條也好或是它的這個預留相關預算也好\n466770\t485335\t這工程會有沒有辦法去輔導嗎還是一樣讓各段各段自己進行我們可以跟臺東市政府來合作來協助啦因為從我們很多禮約爭議的案例來看的確在施作或招標的契約裡面如果說不是那麼的\n486315\t491159\t最後一個問題這個是你們自己覺得要政府採訪法規定的各單位本來就要上傳他們的招票案件\n511357\t529302\t那也看到其實基本上各單位都做得蠻好的都七八成左右唯獨兩個單位一個是經濟部一個是國防部國防部特別低啊他一上傳件數是149但實際上傳24所以等於說相關的這個政府採購裡面國防部跟經濟部可能是你們\n530382\t530402\t韓國瑜\n551940\t552341\t黃健豪委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那我們一樣請陳主委請陳主委委員長主委早 主委首先我想請教一下這個在今天的這個報告裡面有提到現在預告來修正所謂最有利標的評選辦法裡面有增列了這個減少溫室氣體排放的這個技術項目黃老想問一下他的這個\n平選辦法陣列這一條那它用在了後續的所有公共工程還在實施選項之一還有推動這樣的這個平選因為減少溫室氣體排放這個是一個很籠統的這個形容詞啦那到底減少多少會被列為平選的標準\n我想這個是機關在辦理招標的時候決標方式是用評審的話那麼評審有很多項目那我們這個是這個規劃是希望在評審項目裡面能夠增加這個碳排減碳的這樣的考量所以現階段來講這個東西只是鼓勵還不是強制嗎鼓勵然後各機關他自己去橫著看是比例是多少我想這個是主辦機關的選擇\n那未來比例減板減少多少?主委說你要下放到變成是各招標機關自己來決定到時候你們會去協調這個環境部去訂相關的標準嗎?還是一樣由各主管機關自己決定多少叫做減碳符合這個減少溫室氣體排放的標準?\n我想這個應該是希望各主辦機關來決定他應該每個工程有不同的考量所以檢探在這個工程裡面是要站到什麼程度各主辦機關他的這個訂定我想是機關的權利環境部不會訂一個整體的標準嗎我想要問一下環境部\n那這個是因為是納入這個評選決標的過程裡面所以當然廠商會提他的相關計畫嘛這個案的相關計畫這個計畫裡面包括安全啊等等檢探的計畫所以那評選委員可以針對這些計畫去認為他是做的好不好有沒有達成效果好不好所以那個分數啊比例還是主辦機關去這個檢探是占5%或占2%或占10%\n我們再跟環境部商量\n對阿,這樣子大家廠商他們才有一個方向才有辦法依據嘛,不然到底減少多少就是說符合最有利標的標準,不如如果又放到各單位去做,那其實跟現在其實差不多啦,因為現在其實本來你的技術表裡面本來就有說針對環境保護會對環境影響多少等等的,它本來就可以放進這個相關的評選標準,但是因為過去都沒有訂定所謂的數字,那裡面訂定數字當然大家各單位各行其事嘛,\n主委你什麼時候決定要去的?我們這個行程安排很早\n9月初就安排去不好意思因為那天剛好立法院召委你9月初就決定要去你知道我們什麼時候收到通知嗎\n我們9月24我們下午我們立法院的委員們臺中就是臺中的捷運沿線的委員都是9月24的中午過後我們才收到這個通知好那你很早以前就決定然後9月5早上要去但9月5早上剛好立法院開議要選召委所以沒有一個委員本人能夠親自去現場去給你簡單的這個報告讓你瞭解一下地方建設的狀況所以你看這個照片大多只能派助理好不好主委\n這個以後這種重大工程大家一定都非常關切的通知可能是慢了一點這個部分拜託主委未來這個相關通知要早一點因為那天是去看技術審查所以相關的委員到現場去看\n好,所以接下來一樣是捷運藍線的部分那當現場有討論到關於這個現在要做的基本設計修正的部分那現場也提到說交通局那邊也提到說希望兩週內能夠送進這個工程會來提標來審查\n李卓人議員\n委員會主任\n基本設計我想這樣來審議有些意見再補正一下會很快年底之前這個合訂這個基本設計是沒有問題的\n好 主委謝謝 因為我們就期待說因為這個捷運10年10年前就開始在做相關的文書作業了那10年後我們希望說明年能夠順利的來動用因為這個表定也要蓋10年啊其實真的是非常久那到底10年內能不能完成待會我們會討論一下所以這部分我們希望市府如果兩中內送進了這個工程會那既然大家有相關的共識都有了現場也討論過了我們希望他能夠盡速年底前來把它核定可以嗎好 沒有問題\n那再來我看這個一樣是提到捷運工程的流標的問題我剛剛想說為什麼講10年我們都很擔心能不能做到因為從過去這些年下來包含是北捷的這個各縣也好或是說甚至這個桃園捷運也好我想流標的次數都非常非常多次啊\n那這一次臺中捷運除了藍線之外未來除了捷運藍線那包含捷運綠線延伸包含捷運橘線有可能同一時間臺中同時有很多的捷運工程在進行那我想問工程會這邊有什麼樣的手段或是有什麼樣的建議讓市府在招標的過程裡面不要再發生過去這些年下來這種捷運工程大量流暴的狀況\n我想這個因為捷運工程本身就是一個巨額的採購所以能夠做這樣子的捷運工程的廠商不管國內外都很有限加上我們整個物價\n所謂合理其實就是價格的問題\n價格裡面又涉及到現在每年就是這種營建土建成本還有我們現在這個勞務標的問題這個部分到工程會議你有沒有標準說讓地方政府或在開票過程裡面有彈性讓它後續不管是物條也好或是它的這個預留相關預算也好\n這工程會有沒有辦法去輔導嗎還是一樣讓各段各段自己進行我們可以跟臺東市政府來合作來協助啦因為從我們很多禮約爭議的案例來看的確在施作或招標的契約裡面如果說不是那麼的\n最後一個問題這個是你們自己覺得要政府採訪法規定的各單位本來就要上傳他們的招票案件\n那也看到其實基本上各單位都做得蠻好的都七八成左右唯獨兩個單位一個是經濟部一個是國防部國防部特別低啊他一上傳件數是149但實際上傳24所以等於說相關的這個政府採購裡面國防部跟經濟部可能是你們\n韓國瑜\n黃健豪委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.927 --> 00:27.199\n好謝謝主席那我們一樣請陳主委請陳主委委員長主委早主委首先我想請教一下這個在今天的這個報告裡面有提到現在預告來修正所謂最有利標的評選辦法裡面有增列了這個減少溫室氣體排放的這個技術項目黃老想問一下他的這個\n\n00:28.615 --> 00:46.506\n平選辦法陣列這一條那它用在了後續的所有公共工程還在實施選項之一還有推動這樣的這個平選因為減少溫室氣體排放這個是一個很籠統的這個形容詞啦那到底減少多少會被列為平選的標準\n\n00:48.408 --> 01:15.486\n我想這個是機關在辦理招標的時候決標方式是用評審的話那麼評審有很多項目那我們這個是這個規劃是希望在評審項目裡面能夠增加這個碳排減碳的這樣的考量所以現階段來講這個東西只是鼓勵還不是強制嗎鼓勵然後各機關他自己去橫著看是比例是多少我想這個是主辦機關的選擇\n\n01:16.747 --> 01:34.472\n那未來比例減板減少多少?主委說你要下放到變成是各招標機關自己來決定到時候你們會去協調這個環境部去訂相關的標準嗎?還是一樣由各主管機關自己決定多少叫做減碳符合這個減少溫室氣體排放的標準?\n\n01:36.411 --> 02:03.549\n我想這個應該是希望各主辦機關來決定他應該每個工程有不同的考量所以檢探在這個工程裡面是要站到什麼程度各主辦機關他的這個訂定我想是機關的權利環境部不會訂一個整體的標準嗎我想要問一下環境部\n\n02:04.434 --> 02:30.387\n那這個是因為是納入這個評選決標的過程裡面所以當然廠商會提他的相關計畫嘛這個案的相關計畫這個計畫裡面包括安全啊等等檢探的計畫所以那評選委員可以針對這些計畫去認為他是做的好不好有沒有達成效果好不好所以那個分數啊比例還是主辦機關去這個檢探是占5%或占2%或占10%\n\n02:33.268 --> 02:33.889\n我們再跟環境部商量\n\n02:51.101 --> 03:13.621\n對阿,這樣子大家廠商他們才有一個方向才有辦法依據嘛,不然到底減少多少就是說符合最有利標的標準,不如如果又放到各單位去做,那其實跟現在其實差不多啦,因為現在其實本來你的技術表裡面本來就有說針對環境保護會對環境影響多少等等的,它本來就可以放進這個相關的評選標準,但是因為過去都沒有訂定所謂的數字,那裡面訂定數字當然大家各單位各行其事嘛,\n\n03:14.581 --> 03:18.202\n主委你什麼時候決定要去的?我們這個行程安排很早\n\n03:36.231 --> 03:43.665\n9月初就安排去不好意思因為那天剛好立法院召委你9月初就決定要去你知道我們什麼時候收到通知嗎\n\n03:44.619 --> 04:12.779\n我們9月24我們下午我們立法院的委員們臺中就是臺中的捷運沿線的委員都是9月24的中午過後我們才收到這個通知好那你很早以前就決定然後9月5早上要去但9月5早上剛好立法院開議要選召委所以沒有一個委員本人能夠親自去現場去給你簡單的這個報告讓你瞭解一下地方建設的狀況所以你看這個照片大多只能派助理好不好主委\n\n04:13.917 --> 04:29.521\n這個以後這種重大工程大家一定都非常關切的通知可能是慢了一點這個部分拜託主委未來這個相關通知要早一點因為那天是去看技術審查所以相關的委員到現場去看\n\n04:29.821 --> 04:42.525\n好,所以接下來一樣是捷運藍線的部分那當現場有討論到關於這個現在要做的基本設計修正的部分那現場也提到說交通局那邊也提到說希望兩週內能夠送進這個工程會來提標來審查\n\n04:46.346 --> 04:47.027\n李卓人議員\n\n05:02.327 --> 05:02.567\n委員會主任\n\n05:22.419 --> 05:26.102\n基本設計我想這樣來審議有些意見再補正一下會很快年底之前這個合訂這個基本設計是沒有問題的\n\n05:39.011 --> 06:05.892\n好主委謝謝因為我們就期待說因為這個捷運10年10年前就開始在做相關的文書作業了那10年後我們希望說明年能夠順利的來動用因為這個表定也要蓋10年啊其實真的是非常久那到底10年內能不能完成待會我們會討論一下所以這部分我們希望市府如果兩中內送進了這個工程會那既然大家有相關的共識都有了現場也討論過了我們希望他能夠盡速年底前來把它核定可以嗎好沒有問題\n\n06:07.318 --> 06:23.534\n那再來我看這個一樣是提到捷運工程的流標的問題我剛剛想說為什麼講10年我們都很擔心能不能做到因為從過去這些年下來包含是北捷的這個各縣也好或是說甚至這個桃園捷運也好我想流標的次數都非常非常多次啊\n\n06:23.934 --> 06:43.862\n那這一次臺中捷運除了藍線之外未來除了捷運藍線那包含捷運綠線延伸包含捷運橘線有可能同一時間臺中同時有很多的捷運工程在進行那我想問工程會這邊有什麼樣的手段或是有什麼樣的建議讓市府在招標的過程裡面不要再發生過去這些年下來這種捷運工程大量流暴的狀況\n\n06:45.267 --> 06:59.526\n我想這個因為捷運工程本身就是一個巨額的採購所以能夠做這樣子的捷運工程的廠商不管國內外都很有限加上我們整個物價\n\n07:00.768 --> 07:01.268\n所謂合理其實就是價格的問題\n\n07:26.936 --> 07:45.890\n價格裡面又涉及到現在每年就是這種營建土建成本還有我們現在這個勞務標的問題這個部分到工程會議你有沒有標準說讓地方政府或在開票過程裡面有彈性讓它後續不管是物條也好或是它的這個預留相關預算也好\n\n07:46.770 --> 08:05.335\n這工程會有沒有辦法去輔導嗎還是一樣讓各段各段自己進行我們可以跟臺東市政府來合作來協助啦因為從我們很多禮約爭議的案例來看的確在施作或招標的契約裡面如果說不是那麼的\n\n08:06.315 --> 08:11.159\n最後一個問題這個是你們自己覺得要政府採訪法規定的各單位本來就要上傳他們的招票案件\n\n08:31.357 --> 08:49.302\n那也看到其實基本上各單位都做得蠻好的都七八成左右唯獨兩個單位一個是經濟部一個是國防部國防部特別低啊他一上傳件數是149但實際上傳24所以等於說相關的這個政府採購裡面國防部跟經濟部可能是你們\n\n08:50.382 --> 08:50.402\n韓國瑜\n\n09:11.940 --> 09:12.341\n黃健豪委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.927,"end":27.199,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那我們一樣請陳主委請陳主委委員長主委早 主委首先我想請教一下這個在今天的這個報告裡面有提到現在預告來修正所謂最有利標的評選辦法裡面有增列了這個減少溫室氣體排放的這個技術項目黃老想問一下他的這個"},{"start":28.615,"end":46.506,"text":"平選辦法陣列這一條那它用在了後續的所有公共工程還在實施選項之一還有推動這樣的這個平選因為減少溫室氣體排放這個是一個很籠統的這個形容詞啦那到底減少多少會被列為平選的標準"},{"start":48.408,"end":75.486,"text":"我想這個是機關在辦理招標的時候決標方式是用評審的話那麼評審有很多項目那我們這個是這個規劃是希望在評審項目裡面能夠增加這個碳排減碳的這樣的考量所以現階段來講這個東西只是鼓勵還不是強制嗎鼓勵然後各機關他自己去橫著看是比例是多少我想這個是主辦機關的選擇"},{"start":76.747,"end":94.472,"text":"那未來比例減板減少多少?主委說你要下放到變成是各招標機關自己來決定到時候你們會去協調這個環境部去訂相關的標準嗎?還是一樣由各主管機關自己決定多少叫做減碳符合這個減少溫室氣體排放的標準?"},{"start":96.411,"end":123.549,"text":"我想這個應該是希望各主辦機關來決定他應該每個工程有不同的考量所以檢探在這個工程裡面是要站到什麼程度各主辦機關他的這個訂定我想是機關的權利環境部不會訂一個整體的標準嗎我想要問一下環境部"},{"start":124.434,"end":150.387,"text":"那這個是因為是納入這個評選決標的過程裡面所以當然廠商會提他的相關計畫嘛這個案的相關計畫這個計畫裡面包括安全啊等等檢探的計畫所以那評選委員可以針對這些計畫去認為他是做的好不好有沒有達成效果好不好所以那個分數啊比例還是主辦機關去這個檢探是占5%或占2%或占10%"},{"start":153.268,"end":153.889,"text":"我們再跟環境部商量"},{"start":171.101,"end":193.621,"text":"對阿,這樣子大家廠商他們才有一個方向才有辦法依據嘛,不然到底減少多少就是說符合最有利標的標準,不如如果又放到各單位去做,那其實跟現在其實差不多啦,因為現在其實本來你的技術表裡面本來就有說針對環境保護會對環境影響多少等等的,它本來就可以放進這個相關的評選標準,但是因為過去都沒有訂定所謂的數字,那裡面訂定數字當然大家各單位各行其事嘛,"},{"start":194.581,"end":198.202,"text":"主委你什麼時候決定要去的?我們這個行程安排很早"},{"start":216.231,"end":223.665,"text":"9月初就安排去不好意思因為那天剛好立法院召委你9月初就決定要去你知道我們什麼時候收到通知嗎"},{"start":224.619,"end":252.779,"text":"我們9月24我們下午我們立法院的委員們臺中就是臺中的捷運沿線的委員都是9月24的中午過後我們才收到這個通知好那你很早以前就決定然後9月5早上要去但9月5早上剛好立法院開議要選召委所以沒有一個委員本人能夠親自去現場去給你簡單的這個報告讓你瞭解一下地方建設的狀況所以你看這個照片大多只能派助理好不好主委"},{"start":253.917,"end":269.521,"text":"這個以後這種重大工程大家一定都非常關切的通知可能是慢了一點這個部分拜託主委未來這個相關通知要早一點因為那天是去看技術審查所以相關的委員到現場去看"},{"start":269.821,"end":282.525,"text":"好,所以接下來一樣是捷運藍線的部分那當現場有討論到關於這個現在要做的基本設計修正的部分那現場也提到說交通局那邊也提到說希望兩週內能夠送進這個工程會來提標來審查"},{"start":286.346,"end":287.027,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":302.327,"end":302.567,"text":"委員會主任"},{"start":322.419,"end":326.102,"text":"基本設計我想這樣來審議有些意見再補正一下會很快年底之前這個合訂這個基本設計是沒有問題的"},{"start":339.011,"end":365.892,"text":"好 主委謝謝 因為我們就期待說因為這個捷運10年10年前就開始在做相關的文書作業了那10年後我們希望說明年能夠順利的來動用因為這個表定也要蓋10年啊其實真的是非常久那到底10年內能不能完成待會我們會討論一下所以這部分我們希望市府如果兩中內送進了這個工程會那既然大家有相關的共識都有了現場也討論過了我們希望他能夠盡速年底前來把它核定可以嗎好 沒有問題"},{"start":367.318,"end":383.534,"text":"那再來我看這個一樣是提到捷運工程的流標的問題我剛剛想說為什麼講10年我們都很擔心能不能做到因為從過去這些年下來包含是北捷的這個各縣也好或是說甚至這個桃園捷運也好我想流標的次數都非常非常多次啊"},{"start":383.934,"end":403.862,"text":"那這一次臺中捷運除了藍線之外未來除了捷運藍線那包含捷運綠線延伸包含捷運橘線有可能同一時間臺中同時有很多的捷運工程在進行那我想問工程會這邊有什麼樣的手段或是有什麼樣的建議讓市府在招標的過程裡面不要再發生過去這些年下來這種捷運工程大量流暴的狀況"},{"start":405.267,"end":419.526,"text":"我想這個因為捷運工程本身就是一個巨額的採購所以能夠做這樣子的捷運工程的廠商不管國內外都很有限加上我們整個物價"},{"start":420.768,"end":421.268,"text":"所謂合理其實就是價格的問題"},{"start":446.936,"end":465.89,"text":"價格裡面又涉及到現在每年就是這種營建土建成本還有我們現在這個勞務標的問題這個部分到工程會議你有沒有標準說讓地方政府或在開票過程裡面有彈性讓它後續不管是物條也好或是它的這個預留相關預算也好"},{"start":466.77,"end":485.335,"text":"這工程會有沒有辦法去輔導嗎還是一樣讓各段各段自己進行我們可以跟臺東市政府來合作來協助啦因為從我們很多禮約爭議的案例來看的確在施作或招標的契約裡面如果說不是那麼的"},{"start":486.315,"end":491.159,"text":"最後一個問題這個是你們自己覺得要政府採訪法規定的各單位本來就要上傳他們的招票案件"},{"start":511.357,"end":529.302,"text":"那也看到其實基本上各單位都做得蠻好的都七八成左右唯獨兩個單位一個是經濟部一個是國防部國防部特別低啊他一上傳件數是149但實際上傳24所以等於說相關的這個政府採購裡面國防部跟經濟部可能是你們"},{"start":530.382,"end":530.402,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":551.94,"end":552.341,"text":"黃健豪委員"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:32:10 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09:41:49","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154937,"gazette":{"lineno":118,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（9時32分）謝謝主席，我們邀請陳主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["黃委員健豪：主委早。主委，首先我想請教一下，在今天的報告裡面有提到，現在預告修正的最有利標的評選辦法裡面有增列了減少溫室氣體排放的技術項目，我想問一下，評選辦法增列了這一條，那它是用在後續的所有公共工程還是它只是選項之一？還有推動這項評選，因為減少溫室氣體排放是一個很籠統的形容詞，那到底減少多少會被列為評選的標準？"],["陳主任委員金德：我想機關在辦理招標的時候，決標的方式是用評審的，評審有很多項目，我們這個規劃是希望在評審項目裡面能夠增加減碳的考量，我想這個……"],["黃委員健豪：所以現階段來講，這個東西只是鼓勵，還不是強制嘛？"],["陳主任委員金德：鼓勵，對，鼓勵，然後各機關它自己去衡酌看看比例是多少，我想這是主辦機關的權責。"],["黃委員健豪：那未來的比例減少多少，你說主管機關的意思是說，你要下放到變成是各招標機關自己來決定，到時候你們會去協調環境部訂定相關的標準嗎？還是一樣由各主管機關自己決定，多少叫做減碳，符合減少溫室氣體排放的標準？"],["陳主任委員金德：我想這應該是需要各個主辦機關來決定，應該每個工程有不同的考量，所以減碳在這個工程裡面是要占到什麼樣的程度，各個主辦機關的訂定，我想也是機關的權力。"],["黃委員健豪：環境部不會訂一個整體的標準嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：這個我想要問一下環境部，因為這是納入評選決標的過程裡面，所以當然廠商會提他的相關計畫，就是個案的相關計畫，這個計畫裡面包括安全等等減碳的計畫，所以評選委員可以針對這些計畫去評斷，認為他做得好不好，效果好不好，所以那個分數比例還是主辦機關去規範，比方說這個減碳是占百分之五或是占百分之二或是占百分之十……"],["黃委員健豪：主委，我還是建議，因為今天針對這個，我是覺得鼓勵是好事，就是說真的，往這個方向走是對的，包括你們今天的簡報裡面也有提到，對於這種減碳的標準是未來工程會的目標，但是到底訂定多少，我覺得應該要有個目標、方向出來……"],["陳主任委員金德：這個我們再跟環境部商量。"],["黃委員健豪：對啊，這樣子大家廠商才有一個方向、依據，不然到底減少多少叫做符合最有利標的標準？如果又放到各單位去做，那其實跟現在差不多啦！因為現在其實技術標裡面本來就有針對環境保護或對環境影響多少等等的，它本來就有放進相關的評選標準，但是因為過去都沒有訂定所謂的數字，那你沒有訂定數字，當然大家各單位各行其是嘛，好不好？主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：好。"],["黃委員健豪：接下來，主委，上週主委在25號的時候，有來臺中看臺中的藍線捷運，當然，我們還是要感謝工程會重視這條捷運建設，但是我要提個細節，主委，你什麼時候決定要去的？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們這個行程安排得很早，9月初就安排要去了，不好意思，因為那天剛好立法院召委選舉。"],["黃委員健豪：主委，對，我知道，你9月初就決定要去，你知道我們什麼時候收到通知嗎？9月24日下午，我們立法院的委員們，尤其臺中藍線捷運沿線的委員，都是924的中午過後，我們才收到通知。你很早以前就決定925早上要去，但是925早上剛好立法院開議要選召委，所以沒有一個委員本人能夠親自去現場給你簡單的報告，讓你了解一下地方建設的狀況……"],["陳主任委員金德：這個不好意思。"],["黃委員健豪：所以你看看這個照片，大家都只能派助理出席，好不好，主委，以後這種……"],["陳主任委員金德：我們來改進啦！"],["黃委員健豪：這種重大工程，大家一定都非常關切的。"],["陳主任委員金德：時間是很早就定了，但通知可能是慢了一點。"],["黃委員健豪：好，這個部分再拜託主委，未來相關的通知要早一點。"],["陳主任委員金德：因為那天是去看技術審查，所以相關的委員到現場去看。"],["黃委員健豪：好。接下來，一樣是捷運藍線的部分，當然現場有討論到關於現在在做的基本設計修正的部分，現場交通局這邊也提到說，希望兩週內送進工程會並提報審查，當然，如果在兩週內送出來，預計大概10月中就能夠提報到工程會去。我們要問的是，如果提報到工程會，距離年底還有兩個半月左右的時間，那相關的預算，其實不管市府也好，交通部也好，已經編列了明年藍線預定要開工的預算，所以我們當然希望明年能夠順利來動工嘛，那這個審查會，年底前有沒有辦法去確定相關的技術細節，還是還會再公文來來往往很多次？"],["陳主任委員金德：那天安排相關的委員去看，就表示說已經進入最後可以核定的階段了，因為臺中市政府有提一個修正……"],["黃委員健豪：對。"],["陳主任委員金德：這個修正也馬上可以核定。那我想基本設計的審議，有些意見再補正一下會很快，年底之前核定這個基本設計是沒有問題的。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝主委。因為這個捷運十年前就開始做相關的文書作業了，那十年後我們就期待希望明年能夠順利的來動工，因為此案表定也要蓋十年，其實真的是非常久，那到底十年內能不能完成，待會我們會討論一下。所以這個部分，我們希望市府如果兩週內送進了工程會，既然大家相關的共識都有了，現場也討論過了，我們希望能夠儘速在年底前把它核定，可以嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：好，沒有問題。"],["黃委員健豪：再來，一樣是提到捷運工程流標的問題，我剛剛為什麼講，我們都很擔心十年能不能做到，因為從過去這些年下來，包含北捷的路線也好，或說甚至桃園捷運也好，流標的次數都非常非常多次。那這一次臺中捷運，除了捷運藍線之外，未來包含捷運綠線的延伸，包含捷運橘線，有可能臺中同一時間有很多的捷運工程在進行，我想問工程會這邊有什麼樣的手段，或是有怎樣的建議，讓市府在招標的過程中不要再發生過去這些年下來，這種捷運工程大量流標的狀況？"],["陳主任委員金德：我想因為捷運工程本身就是一個巨額的採購，所以能夠做這種捷運工程的廠商，不管國內外，都很有限，加上我們整個物價或者是缺工等等因素，都對案子是否能夠順利決標造成一些變數，所以關於整個契約或合約，我們工程會會跟臺中市政府來協調，我們會來協助讓整個契約的訂定比較合理，才不至於一再的流標。"],["黃委員健豪：我想所謂「合理」，其實就是價格的問題嘛。"],["陳主任委員金德：沒有錯。"],["黃委員健豪：但是價格其實又涉及到現在每年這種營建的土建成本，還有勞務標的問題，這個部分，包括工程會，你有沒有標準說讓地方政府在開標的過程當中有彈性，讓它後續不管是物調也好，或是它的預留相關預算也好，這工程會有辦法去輔導嗎？還是一樣讓各段、各段自己進行？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們可以跟臺中市政府來合作、來協助，因為從很多履約爭議的案例來看，的確在施作或招標的契約裡，如果說不是那麼合理或者清楚，會容易造成履約的爭議，比方有的有物調，有的沒有物調等等，所以到底土建跟機電可不可以分開來施作，這個都是方式之一，我們會跟臺中市政府來協助辦理。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝主委，再拜託喔！最後一個問題，就是你們自己要求照政府採購法規定，各單位本來就要上傳他們招標的案件，基本上，我們看到其實各單位都做得滿好的，有到七、八成左右，唯獨兩個單位，一個是經濟部，一個是國防部，國防部特別低啊，他們應上傳件數是149，但實際上傳只有24，等於是在政府相關採購裡面，國防部跟經濟部你們可能比較不知道他們發生了什麼狀況，這到底是國防部的問題，是因為涉及機密呢？還是作業疏失？如果是機密的話，是不是有機密案件的處理方式，而不是像這個數字呈現出來的，各單位其實都做得很好，該上傳的、該讓你們掌握進度的、該讓你們了解標案過程的，他們都有上傳，唯獨這兩個單位，主委有掌握到這部分的情況嗎？後續你們要怎麼處理？"],["陳主任委員金德：好，我們在每個月的督導會報裡會要求這兩個單位說明，來了解。"],["黃委員健豪：所以他們目前還沒有說明過？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們下一個督導會報會議會來要求。"],["黃委員健豪：好，說明結果之後，請主席裁示，再請主委提供給本會委員，讓我們知道一下，好不好？"],["陳主任委員金德：好，我們書面來提供。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃健豪委員的質詢。","接下來邀請林沛祥委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","speakers":["陳素月","林俊憲","許智傑","黃健豪","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","廖先翔","魯明哲","邱若華","蔡其昌","林國成","游顥","徐富癸","黃國昌","洪孟楷","王美惠","廖偉翔","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","王鴻薇","陳俊宇","李柏毅","羅智強","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00013"}}}