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646.127, \"end\": 673.699, \"text\": \"今天不會我跟委員報告因為捷克也是一個自由民主國家跟台灣一樣所以他們的執政聯盟其實多個政黨所組成的所以他們在內部針對我們跟我們合作的這個對象大學還有政府的單位其實還有一些不同多元的意見他們還在整合當中所以他們現在是他們不願意就對了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 646.127, \"end\": 646.247, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 646.247, \"end\": 646.407, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 646.407, \"end\": 647.548, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 647.548, \"end\": 647.688, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 647.688, \"end\": 647.868, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 647.868, \"end\": 648.308, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 648.308, \"end\": 648.628, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 648.628, \"end\": 649.048, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"捷\", \"start\": 649.048, \"end\": 649.228, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 649.228, \"end\": 649.388, \"score\": 0.994}, 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,223 --> 00:00:25,769\n請問主委我順著柯政委員問一下你現在要編360億創南台灣的生態系推動方案打造南台灣成為人工智慧之島我想問一下北台灣你現在是要把AI移到南台灣去?\n\n2\n00:00:27,923 --> 00:00:35,194\n現在只是說平台放到南台灣但是服務的對象是全國的但產業也是涵蓋全國那對於北台灣你有什麼計畫嗎?\n\n3\n00:00:42,039 --> 00:01:04,098\n我們因為預算編列要逐年不能夠一下編太多所以北台灣我們也會做中台灣也會做怎麼做嗎?就是南台灣我們現在把平台建起來以後我們會尋同樣的模式因為要讓它成功如果不成功我們擴散也沒有用所以一樣的模式到時候會在中台灣跟北台灣做都會做南台灣你編的是五年的計畫\n\n4\n00:01:05,419 --> 00:01:24,756\n所以你預計什麼時候才會擴散到中台灣跟北台灣我們大概第一年執行以後大概就有個眉目了那北台灣其實我們在行政院已經有通過一個桃竹苗大細股的方案它的內容還沒有很具體所以當我們在內容還沒有很具體所以是\n\n5\n00:01:25,296 --> 00:01:53,393\n因為現在還在討論哪些區域要涵蓋進來所以有可能會在北台灣北台灣當然也會有一定會有的就是說你也是要照顧一下我們北台灣也會當然會希望不要太久因為聽起來現在好像還沒有具體的計畫可是預算有限我知道預算有限但是因為我們來自於北台灣當然希望能夠為北台灣爭取希望能夠快一點另外就是我們AI如果要成長的話用電量會大增你對於我們現在的電力有信心嗎\n\n6\n00:01:55,134 --> 00:02:15,073\n有信心有信心喔?你跟台電有研究過是不是?有問過台電?台電我跟還是台電有告訴你說絕對供電無虞?因為之前郭志輝部長也講說台灣要發展AI的話一定要可能不排除用核電後來但後來還有改口了啦現在對\n\n7\n00:02:16,638 --> 00:02:33,149\n好啦這個我不為難你的主委總而言之就是你在產業的立場我覺得你也要如果說行政院有機會溝通的話也要注意他們要電的問題啦是然後另外一個就是說因為我看到你在立法院詢答的時候很有信心啦就是說台灣應該在3年內我們的AI實力會超過日韓啦\n\n8\n00:02:35,179 --> 00:02:58,873\n但是我們立法院預算中心所提出來的報告他指出我們AI排名跟超級電腦算力持續落後而且根據國際排名AI的準備度112年世界排名是14名現在下滑到19名落後新加坡南韓日本跟中國大陸所以如果你要在三年之內超過南韓的信心來自於哪裡\n\n9\n00:02:59,753 --> 00:03:22,539\n我們已經開始在編列預算未來幾年預算會投入雲端運算機房的這個建置所以之前是預算不足才落後只要我們預算編下去我們就會超前這個意思過去我們的重點可能比較注重在但是你會編預算別人日本韓國也會編預算所以我們在應用上也要再加強\n\n10\n00:03:23,379 --> 00:03:32,103\n因為這個題目很大我覺得主委講的稍微抽象一點我覺得有機會的話你應該把它具體一點再跟大家討論因為你的目標很宏大但是大家現在看起來不曉得你的具體作法在哪裡如果說只有變預算恐怕還是不夠\n\n11\n00:03:50,112 --> 00:04:02,288\n我們政府的綱要計畫方案已經編了編了以後接下來到年底之前就會有一些執行的真正的計畫就會出現到時候會跟大家來報告那今天我們的\n\n12\n00:04:03,796 --> 00:04:22,345\n專題報告叫《永續科研與政策溝通》我知道為什麼早晚會排這個題目當然是因為有大概有600個學者吧就是針對國科會要把這幾個學門把它拆解重組表達非常的不滿我會表示這個不存在這個議題不存在但是因為我後來看了國科會對於後來到600個學者連署對這600個學者的回應實際上我覺得也是有點實問虛答\n\n13\n00:04:31,989 --> 00:04:36,778\n因為國安會的講法是說沒有沒有我們的預算編列有增加說增加到48億是不是是嗎\n\n14\n00:04:39,806 --> 00:05:05,640\n今年48億明年52億4.8億是國會本身但是我們永續的議題是100多億的因為你們的回應是4.8億啦但是我覺得學者應該在乎的不是錢的問題啦因為所有的一個研究它需要長期的戰略跟長期的規劃那你忽然間把一些學門它可能正在進行當中的學門你把它拆解重組對於它的研究它忽然打亂了報告委員沒有要拆解啦\n\n15\n00:05:08,101 --> 00:05:22,288\n我知道我們學者學者是這樣覺得嘛所以這中間又出現很大的問題啊所以今天稍微排的是永續發展科研與政策溝通這就很奇怪就是說你在這邊講說完全沒有這個問題結果有600個學者連署反對你\n\n16\n00:05:25,729 --> 00:05:50,094\n那大家吃飽撐著沒事幹去做這個事嗎?不可能嘛你一定是在溝通上出現了問題嘛如果你從來都沒有要去改變的話那人家是夢到嗎還是忽然間是怎樣有人造謠嗎?一定是你們在對外宣傳的部分透露出這樣的訊息大家緊張你可以說他超前部署所以他做了這個動作嘛過程當中絕對有問題你不可能說他們無緣故去做這個動作\n\n17\n00:05:52,095 --> 00:06:11,232\n所以我覺得那個主委假設啦並沒有要拆解重組這件事情的話那你應該去檢討請問一下在政策溝通的過程當中出現什麼問題我覺得這個是今天可能啦我猜趙偉可能要排這個題目的原因啦但是呢這個你就自己因為等一下趙偉可能會罵你啦我就不多說話了\n\n18\n00:06:12,934 --> 00:06:29,486\n但是我就想要繼續問因為今天既然講到永續發展跟所謂的淨零碳排我想問足了一個問題我們都知道其實中國大陸在這塊是表現非常優秀根據外媒的報導比如說至少他們在中國大陸在\n\n19\n00:06:31,735 --> 00:06:31,995\n祖偉在剛上任時提到\n\n20\n00:06:58,809 --> 00:07:08,509\n你不排斥跟中國的科技做交流你也說你也無意讓中國科技持續落後只要在合乎法律的情況之下國會都會支持跟對岸來往\n\n21\n00:07:09,281 --> 00:07:32,331\n但是我們後來就看了一下現在的兩岸的交流我們就發現說好像屬於一種幾乎停滯的狀態左邊的圖是國際的交流其實在國際的交流方面就已經有下滑的趨勢你看2024年合定的件數355件已經比2017年幾乎腰斬左邊是國際的部分右邊是\n\n22\n00:07:34,073 --> 00:08:02,475\n國科會補助邀請大陸地區暨香港澳門科技人士來台的這個申請跟核定表到2024年只有三件然後預算總共是只有19萬等於是說你只有大概補助19萬那我們在整個計畫大概編多少錢呢我們的整個計畫大概編了3億多3億多中國大陸的補助19萬其實它的比例是非常的低那除了這個資料之外還有另外我們也可以看到\n\n23\n00:08:04,128 --> 00:08:20,871\n這是補助兩岸學術科技交流的申請跟核定的件數。2024年申請18件,核定5件。不管是申請件數跟核定件數都往下滑的趨勢。請教一下主委,現在兩岸到底學術是遇到什麼問題?\n\n24\n00:08:22,782 --> 00:08:46,395\n我們國科會當然是一直鼓勵我們的學術研究我們的學者能夠跟全世界的學者交流往來才會進步那目前跟大陸方面的這樣的交流是受限於大陸方面對台灣的不友善的行為所引起的\n\n25\n00:08:46,815 --> 00:09:10,025\n所以是我們是我們邀他不來還是說因為我們覺得他不友善所以我們連邀都沒邀我們即使我們邀他們啊他們他們的國內啊其實也有自己的限制存在那我們這邊也要透過我們不是只有國科會我們還有行政院的機制在對因為因為我的瞭解不是這樣瞭解是說現在\n\n26\n00:09:11,105 --> 00:09:36,006\n你要申請學術對岸過來學術交流好像要專案審查嘛專案審查陸委會那邊就會擋了嘛那我是覺得學術歸學術政治歸政治啦就是說如果大家認為兩岸科技交流特別是我剛講在永續發展跟氣候變遷這一塊連美國都要跟中國大陸交流那台灣也可以秉持著就是科學交流的精神嘛對不對把政治撇一邊啦\n\n27\n00:09:37,541 --> 00:10:00,960\n我記得這個也是竹偉你上任的一個理想你就是說只要在不違反法律的情況之下兩岸科技多交流是好事我們只要把法令允許可是實際上看得出來這個數字真的是下滑非常多我就覺得非常可惜我覺得非常可惜就是因為政治的關係讓科技無法持續的合作再來我想跟竹偉問一個計畫的進度比如說我們不是\n\n28\n00:10:07,168 --> 00:10:11,712\n國會會在之前前主委吳政宗那時候就已經對外宣布說台灣要在\n\n29\n00:10:12,912 --> 00:10:36,371\n布拉格捷克布拉格成立台灣第一座IC設計海外訓練基地那個時候講得非常的盛大那這件事情在賴清德總統今年6月接見捷克參議院的首席副議長德拉霍斯的時候也說在政府推動台捷任性計畫之下台灣第一個IC設計海外訓練基地要在布拉格落腳那當時講的\n\n30\n00:10:38,838 --> 00:10:44,945\n時間是9月要落成那因為今天已經是9月最後一天了好不好這個今天會落成嗎?\n\n31\n00:10:46,127 --> 00:11:13,699\n今天不會我跟委員報告因為捷克也是一個自由民主國家跟台灣一樣所以他們的執政聯盟其實多個政黨所組成的所以他們在內部針對我們跟我們合作的這個對象大學還有政府的單位其實還有一些不同多元的意見他們還在整合當中所以他們現在是他們不願意就對了\n\n32\n00:11:14,019 --> 00:11:38,771\n不是不願意他們還在整合意見他們有怎麼樣的意見要需要整合就是執行的單位跟政府的應該想權責單位之間他們還在溝通那最近又碰到捷克的選舉所以中間有一點這個那你覺得你有信心說這個東西會落成嗎現在你等於是說你就是行政流程的問題嗎\n\n33\n00:11:39,991 --> 00:12:04,226\n還有他們的政黨之間溝通政府溝通的問題所以確定會做這件事情只是9月沒完成只是可能會延緩那我們持續跟他們在討論那大概什麼時候他們現在因為選舉剛剛結束政府可能也會重組所以可能還是會再有一段時間我們並沒有說放棄啦並沒有放棄所以還是持續溝通大概什麼時候嘛因為你本來講9月嘛\n\n34\n00:12:06,687 --> 00:12:07,388\n主委請回謝謝葉元之\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4223\t25769\t請問主委我順著柯政委員問一下你現在要編360億創南台灣的生態系推動方案打造南台灣成為人工智慧之島我想問一下北台灣你現在是要把AI移到南台灣去?\n27923\t35194\t現在只是說平台放到南台灣但是服務的對象是全國的但產業也是涵蓋全國那對於北台灣你有什麼計畫嗎?\n42039\t64098\t我們因為預算編列要逐年不能夠一下編太多所以北台灣我們也會做中台灣也會做怎麼做嗎?就是南台灣我們現在把平台建起來以後我們會尋同樣的模式因為要讓它成功如果不成功我們擴散也沒有用所以一樣的模式到時候會在中台灣跟北台灣做都會做南台灣你編的是五年的計畫\n65419\t84756\t所以你預計什麼時候才會擴散到中台灣跟北台灣我們大概第一年執行以後大概就有個眉目了那北台灣其實我們在行政院已經有通過一個桃竹苗大細股的方案它的內容還沒有很具體所以當我們在內容還沒有很具體所以是\n85296\t113393\t因為現在還在討論哪些區域要涵蓋進來所以有可能會在北台灣北台灣當然也會有 一定會有的就是說你也是要照顧一下我們北台灣也會 當然會希望不要太久因為聽起來現在好像還沒有具體的計畫可是預算有限我知道預算有限但是因為我們來自於北台灣當然希望能夠為北台灣爭取希望能夠快一點另外就是我們AI如果要成長的話用電量會大增你對於我們現在的電力有信心嗎\n115134\t135073\t有信心有信心喔?你跟台電有研究過是不是?有問過台電?台電我跟還是台電有告訴你說絕對供電無虞?因為之前郭志輝部長也講說台灣要發展AI的話一定要可能不排除用核電後來但後來還有改口了啦現在對\n136638\t153149\t好啦 這個我不為難你的主委總而言之就是你在產業的立場我覺得你也要如果說行政院有機會溝通的話也要注意他們要電的問題啦是然後另外一個就是說因為我看到你在立法院詢答的時候很有信心啦就是說台灣應該在3年內我們的AI實力會超過日韓啦\n155179\t178873\t但是我們立法院預算中心所提出來的報告他指出我們AI排名跟超級電腦算力持續落後而且根據國際排名AI的準備度112年世界排名是14名現在下滑到19名落後新加坡南韓日本跟中國大陸所以如果你要在三年之內超過南韓的信心來自於哪裡\n179753\t202539\t我們已經開始在編列預算未來幾年預算會投入雲端運算機房的這個建置所以之前是預算不足才落後只要我們預算編下去我們就會超前這個意思過去我們的重點可能比較注重在但是你會編預算別人日本韓國也會編預算所以我們在應用上也要再加強\n203379\t212103\t因為這個題目很大我覺得主委講的稍微抽象一點我覺得有機會的話你應該把它具體一點再跟大家討論因為你的目標很宏大但是大家現在看起來不曉得你的具體作法在哪裡如果說只有變預算恐怕還是不夠\n230112\t242288\t我們政府的綱要計畫方案已經編了編了以後接下來到年底之前就會有一些執行的真正的計畫就會出現到時候會跟大家來報告那今天我們的\n243796\t262345\t專題報告叫《永續科研與政策溝通》我知道為什麼早晚會排這個題目當然是因為有大概有600個學者吧就是針對國科會要把這幾個學門把它拆解重組表達非常的不滿我會表示這個不存在這個議題不存在但是因為我後來看了國科會對於後來到600個學者連署對這600個學者的回應實際上我覺得也是有點實問虛答\n271989\t276778\t因為國安會的講法是說沒有沒有我們的預算編列有增加說增加到48億是不是 是嗎\n279806\t305640\t今年48億明年52億4.8億是國會本身但是我們永續的議題是100多億的因為你們的回應是4.8億啦但是我覺得學者應該在乎的不是錢的問題啦因為所有的一個研究它需要長期的戰略跟長期的規劃那你忽然間把一些學門它可能正在進行當中的學門你把它拆解重組對於它的研究它忽然打亂了報告委員沒有要拆解啦\n308101\t322288\t我知道我們學者學者是這樣覺得嘛所以這中間又出現很大的問題啊所以今天稍微排的是永續發展科研與政策溝通這就很奇怪就是說你在這邊講說完全沒有這個問題結果有600個學者連署反對你\n325729\t350094\t那大家吃飽撐著沒事幹去做這個事嗎?不可能嘛你一定是在溝通上出現了問題嘛如果你從來都沒有要去改變的話那人家是夢到嗎還是忽然間是怎樣有人造謠嗎?一定是你們在對外宣傳的部分透露出這樣的訊息大家緊張你可以說他超前部署所以他做了這個動作嘛過程當中絕對有問題你不可能說他們無緣故去做這個動作\n352095\t371232\t所以我覺得那個主委假設啦並沒有要拆解重組這件事情的話那你應該去檢討請問一下在政策溝通的過程當中出現什麼問題我覺得這個是今天可能啦我猜趙偉可能要排這個題目的原因啦但是呢這個你就自己因為等一下趙偉可能會罵你啦我就不多說話了\n372934\t389486\t但是我就想要繼續問因為今天既然講到永續發展跟所謂的淨零碳排我想問足了一個問題我們都知道其實中國大陸在這塊是表現非常優秀根據外媒的報導比如說至少他們在中國大陸在\n391735\t391995\t祖偉在剛上任時提到\n418809\t428509\t你不排斥跟中國的科技做交流你也說你也無意讓中國科技持續落後只要在合乎法律的情況之下國會都會支持跟對岸來往\n429281\t452331\t但是我們後來就看了一下現在的兩岸的交流我們就發現說好像屬於一種幾乎停滯的狀態左邊的圖是國際的交流其實在國際的交流方面就已經有下滑的趨勢你看2024年合定的件數355件已經比2017年幾乎腰斬左邊是國際的部分右邊是\n454073\t482475\t國科會補助邀請大陸地區暨香港澳門科技人士來台的這個申請跟核定表到2024年只有三件然後預算總共是只有19萬等於是說你只有大概補助19萬那我們在整個計畫大概編多少錢呢我們的整個計畫大概編了3億多3億多中國大陸的補助19萬其實它的比例是非常的低那除了這個資料之外還有另外我們也可以看到\n484128\t500871\t這是補助兩岸學術科技交流的申請跟核定的件數。2024年申請18件,核定5件。不管是申請件數跟核定件數都往下滑的趨勢。請教一下主委,現在兩岸到底學術是遇到什麼問題?\n502782\t526395\t我們國科會當然是一直鼓勵我們的學術研究我們的學者能夠跟全世界的學者交流往來才會進步那目前跟大陸方面的這樣的交流是受限於大陸方面對台灣的不友善的行為所引起的\n526815\t550025\t所以是我們是我們邀他不來還是說因為我們覺得他不友善所以我們連邀都沒邀我們即使我們邀他們啊他們他們的國內啊其實也有自己的限制存在那我們這邊也要透過我們不是只有國科會我們還有行政院的機制在對因為因為我的瞭解不是這樣瞭解是說現在\n551105\t576006\t你要申請學術對岸過來學術交流好像要專案審查嘛專案審查陸委會那邊就會擋了嘛那我是覺得學術歸學術政治歸政治啦就是說如果大家認為兩岸科技交流特別是我剛講在永續發展跟氣候變遷這一塊連美國都要跟中國大陸交流那台灣也可以秉持著就是科學交流的精神嘛對不對把政治撇一邊啦\n577541\t600960\t我記得這個也是竹偉你上任的一個理想你就是說只要在不違反法律的情況之下兩岸科技多交流是好事我們只要把法令允許可是實際上看得出來這個數字真的是下滑非常多我就覺得非常可惜我覺得非常可惜就是因為政治的關係讓科技無法持續的合作再來我想跟竹偉問一個計畫的進度比如說我們不是\n607168\t611712\t國會會在之前前主委吳政宗那時候就已經對外宣布說台灣要在\n612912\t636371\t布拉格捷克布拉格成立台灣第一座IC設計海外訓練基地那個時候講得非常的盛大那這件事情在賴清德總統今年6月接見捷克參議院的首席副議長德拉霍斯的時候也說在政府推動台捷任性計畫之下台灣第一個IC設計海外訓練基地要在布拉格落腳那當時講的\n638838\t644945\t時間是9月要落成那因為今天已經是9月最後一天了好不好這個今天會落成嗎?\n646127\t673699\t今天不會我跟委員報告因為捷克也是一個自由民主國家跟台灣一樣所以他們的執政聯盟其實多個政黨所組成的所以他們在內部針對我們跟我們合作的這個對象大學還有政府的單位其實還有一些不同多元的意見他們還在整合當中所以他們現在是他們不願意就對了\n674019\t698771\t不是不願意他們還在整合意見他們有怎麼樣的意見要需要整合就是執行的單位跟政府的應該想權責單位之間他們還在溝通那最近又碰到捷克的選舉所以中間有一點這個那你覺得你有信心說這個東西會落成嗎現在你等於是說你就是行政流程的問題嗎\n699991\t724226\t還有他們的政黨之間溝通政府溝通的問題所以確定會做這件事情只是9月沒完成只是可能會延緩那我們持續跟他們在討論那大概什麼時候他們現在因為選舉剛剛結束政府可能也會重組所以可能還是會再有一段時間我們並沒有說放棄啦並沒有放棄所以還是持續溝通大概什麼時候嘛因為你本來講9月嘛\n726687\t727388\t主委請回謝謝葉元之\n","txt":"請問主委我順著柯政委員問一下你現在要編360億創南台灣的生態系推動方案打造南台灣成為人工智慧之島我想問一下北台灣你現在是要把AI移到南台灣去?\n現在只是說平台放到南台灣但是服務的對象是全國的但產業也是涵蓋全國那對於北台灣你有什麼計畫嗎?\n我們因為預算編列要逐年不能夠一下編太多所以北台灣我們也會做中台灣也會做怎麼做嗎?就是南台灣我們現在把平台建起來以後我們會尋同樣的模式因為要讓它成功如果不成功我們擴散也沒有用所以一樣的模式到時候會在中台灣跟北台灣做都會做南台灣你編的是五年的計畫\n所以你預計什麼時候才會擴散到中台灣跟北台灣我們大概第一年執行以後大概就有個眉目了那北台灣其實我們在行政院已經有通過一個桃竹苗大細股的方案它的內容還沒有很具體所以當我們在內容還沒有很具體所以是\n因為現在還在討論哪些區域要涵蓋進來所以有可能會在北台灣北台灣當然也會有 一定會有的就是說你也是要照顧一下我們北台灣也會 當然會希望不要太久因為聽起來現在好像還沒有具體的計畫可是預算有限我知道預算有限但是因為我們來自於北台灣當然希望能夠為北台灣爭取希望能夠快一點另外就是我們AI如果要成長的話用電量會大增你對於我們現在的電力有信心嗎\n有信心有信心喔?你跟台電有研究過是不是?有問過台電?台電我跟還是台電有告訴你說絕對供電無虞?因為之前郭志輝部長也講說台灣要發展AI的話一定要可能不排除用核電後來但後來還有改口了啦現在對\n好啦 這個我不為難你的主委總而言之就是你在產業的立場我覺得你也要如果說行政院有機會溝通的話也要注意他們要電的問題啦是然後另外一個就是說因為我看到你在立法院詢答的時候很有信心啦就是說台灣應該在3年內我們的AI實力會超過日韓啦\n但是我們立法院預算中心所提出來的報告他指出我們AI排名跟超級電腦算力持續落後而且根據國際排名AI的準備度112年世界排名是14名現在下滑到19名落後新加坡南韓日本跟中國大陸所以如果你要在三年之內超過南韓的信心來自於哪裡\n我們已經開始在編列預算未來幾年預算會投入雲端運算機房的這個建置所以之前是預算不足才落後只要我們預算編下去我們就會超前這個意思過去我們的重點可能比較注重在但是你會編預算別人日本韓國也會編預算所以我們在應用上也要再加強\n因為這個題目很大我覺得主委講的稍微抽象一點我覺得有機會的話你應該把它具體一點再跟大家討論因為你的目標很宏大但是大家現在看起來不曉得你的具體作法在哪裡如果說只有變預算恐怕還是不夠\n我們政府的綱要計畫方案已經編了編了以後接下來到年底之前就會有一些執行的真正的計畫就會出現到時候會跟大家來報告那今天我們的\n專題報告叫《永續科研與政策溝通》我知道為什麼早晚會排這個題目當然是因為有大概有600個學者吧就是針對國科會要把這幾個學門把它拆解重組表達非常的不滿我會表示這個不存在這個議題不存在但是因為我後來看了國科會對於後來到600個學者連署對這600個學者的回應實際上我覺得也是有點實問虛答\n因為國安會的講法是說沒有沒有我們的預算編列有增加說增加到48億是不是 是嗎\n今年48億明年52億4.8億是國會本身但是我們永續的議題是100多億的因為你們的回應是4.8億啦但是我覺得學者應該在乎的不是錢的問題啦因為所有的一個研究它需要長期的戰略跟長期的規劃那你忽然間把一些學門它可能正在進行當中的學門你把它拆解重組對於它的研究它忽然打亂了報告委員沒有要拆解啦\n我知道我們學者學者是這樣覺得嘛所以這中間又出現很大的問題啊所以今天稍微排的是永續發展科研與政策溝通這就很奇怪就是說你在這邊講說完全沒有這個問題結果有600個學者連署反對你\n那大家吃飽撐著沒事幹去做這個事嗎?不可能嘛你一定是在溝通上出現了問題嘛如果你從來都沒有要去改變的話那人家是夢到嗎還是忽然間是怎樣有人造謠嗎?一定是你們在對外宣傳的部分透露出這樣的訊息大家緊張你可以說他超前部署所以他做了這個動作嘛過程當中絕對有問題你不可能說他們無緣故去做這個動作\n所以我覺得那個主委假設啦並沒有要拆解重組這件事情的話那你應該去檢討請問一下在政策溝通的過程當中出現什麼問題我覺得這個是今天可能啦我猜趙偉可能要排這個題目的原因啦但是呢這個你就自己因為等一下趙偉可能會罵你啦我就不多說話了\n但是我就想要繼續問因為今天既然講到永續發展跟所謂的淨零碳排我想問足了一個問題我們都知道其實中國大陸在這塊是表現非常優秀根據外媒的報導比如說至少他們在中國大陸在\n祖偉在剛上任時提到\n你不排斥跟中國的科技做交流你也說你也無意讓中國科技持續落後只要在合乎法律的情況之下國會都會支持跟對岸來往\n但是我們後來就看了一下現在的兩岸的交流我們就發現說好像屬於一種幾乎停滯的狀態左邊的圖是國際的交流其實在國際的交流方面就已經有下滑的趨勢你看2024年合定的件數355件已經比2017年幾乎腰斬左邊是國際的部分右邊是\n國科會補助邀請大陸地區暨香港澳門科技人士來台的這個申請跟核定表到2024年只有三件然後預算總共是只有19萬等於是說你只有大概補助19萬那我們在整個計畫大概編多少錢呢我們的整個計畫大概編了3億多3億多中國大陸的補助19萬其實它的比例是非常的低那除了這個資料之外還有另外我們也可以看到\n這是補助兩岸學術科技交流的申請跟核定的件數。2024年申請18件,核定5件。不管是申請件數跟核定件數都往下滑的趨勢。請教一下主委,現在兩岸到底學術是遇到什麼問題?\n我們國科會當然是一直鼓勵我們的學術研究我們的學者能夠跟全世界的學者交流往來才會進步那目前跟大陸方面的這樣的交流是受限於大陸方面對台灣的不友善的行為所引起的\n所以是我們是我們邀他不來還是說因為我們覺得他不友善所以我們連邀都沒邀我們即使我們邀他們啊他們他們的國內啊其實也有自己的限制存在那我們這邊也要透過我們不是只有國科會我們還有行政院的機制在對因為因為我的瞭解不是這樣瞭解是說現在\n你要申請學術對岸過來學術交流好像要專案審查嘛專案審查陸委會那邊就會擋了嘛那我是覺得學術歸學術政治歸政治啦就是說如果大家認為兩岸科技交流特別是我剛講在永續發展跟氣候變遷這一塊連美國都要跟中國大陸交流那台灣也可以秉持著就是科學交流的精神嘛對不對把政治撇一邊啦\n我記得這個也是竹偉你上任的一個理想你就是說只要在不違反法律的情況之下兩岸科技多交流是好事我們只要把法令允許可是實際上看得出來這個數字真的是下滑非常多我就覺得非常可惜我覺得非常可惜就是因為政治的關係讓科技無法持續的合作再來我想跟竹偉問一個計畫的進度比如說我們不是\n國會會在之前前主委吳政宗那時候就已經對外宣布說台灣要在\n布拉格捷克布拉格成立台灣第一座IC設計海外訓練基地那個時候講得非常的盛大那這件事情在賴清德總統今年6月接見捷克參議院的首席副議長德拉霍斯的時候也說在政府推動台捷任性計畫之下台灣第一個IC設計海外訓練基地要在布拉格落腳那當時講的\n時間是9月要落成那因為今天已經是9月最後一天了好不好這個今天會落成嗎?\n今天不會我跟委員報告因為捷克也是一個自由民主國家跟台灣一樣所以他們的執政聯盟其實多個政黨所組成的所以他們在內部針對我們跟我們合作的這個對象大學還有政府的單位其實還有一些不同多元的意見他們還在整合當中所以他們現在是他們不願意就對了\n不是不願意他們還在整合意見他們有怎麼樣的意見要需要整合就是執行的單位跟政府的應該想權責單位之間他們還在溝通那最近又碰到捷克的選舉所以中間有一點這個那你覺得你有信心說這個東西會落成嗎現在你等於是說你就是行政流程的問題嗎\n還有他們的政黨之間溝通政府溝通的問題所以確定會做這件事情只是9月沒完成只是可能會延緩那我們持續跟他們在討論那大概什麼時候他們現在因為選舉剛剛結束政府可能也會重組所以可能還是會再有一段時間我們並沒有說放棄啦並沒有放棄所以還是持續溝通大概什麼時候嘛因為你本來講9月嘛\n主委請回謝謝葉元之\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.223 --> 00:25.769\n請問主委我順著柯政委員問一下你現在要編360億創南台灣的生態系推動方案打造南台灣成為人工智慧之島我想問一下北台灣你現在是要把AI移到南台灣去?\n\n00:27.923 --> 00:35.194\n現在只是說平台放到南台灣但是服務的對象是全國的但產業也是涵蓋全國那對於北台灣你有什麼計畫嗎?\n\n00:42.039 --> 01:04.098\n我們因為預算編列要逐年不能夠一下編太多所以北台灣我們也會做中台灣也會做怎麼做嗎?就是南台灣我們現在把平台建起來以後我們會尋同樣的模式因為要讓它成功如果不成功我們擴散也沒有用所以一樣的模式到時候會在中台灣跟北台灣做都會做南台灣你編的是五年的計畫\n\n01:05.419 --> 01:24.756\n所以你預計什麼時候才會擴散到中台灣跟北台灣我們大概第一年執行以後大概就有個眉目了那北台灣其實我們在行政院已經有通過一個桃竹苗大細股的方案它的內容還沒有很具體所以當我們在內容還沒有很具體所以是\n\n01:25.296 --> 01:53.393\n因為現在還在討論哪些區域要涵蓋進來所以有可能會在北台灣北台灣當然也會有一定會有的就是說你也是要照顧一下我們北台灣也會當然會希望不要太久因為聽起來現在好像還沒有具體的計畫可是預算有限我知道預算有限但是因為我們來自於北台灣當然希望能夠為北台灣爭取希望能夠快一點另外就是我們AI如果要成長的話用電量會大增你對於我們現在的電力有信心嗎\n\n01:55.134 --> 02:15.073\n有信心有信心喔?你跟台電有研究過是不是?有問過台電?台電我跟還是台電有告訴你說絕對供電無虞?因為之前郭志輝部長也講說台灣要發展AI的話一定要可能不排除用核電後來但後來還有改口了啦現在對\n\n02:16.638 --> 02:33.149\n好啦這個我不為難你的主委總而言之就是你在產業的立場我覺得你也要如果說行政院有機會溝通的話也要注意他們要電的問題啦是然後另外一個就是說因為我看到你在立法院詢答的時候很有信心啦就是說台灣應該在3年內我們的AI實力會超過日韓啦\n\n02:35.179 --> 02:58.873\n但是我們立法院預算中心所提出來的報告他指出我們AI排名跟超級電腦算力持續落後而且根據國際排名AI的準備度112年世界排名是14名現在下滑到19名落後新加坡南韓日本跟中國大陸所以如果你要在三年之內超過南韓的信心來自於哪裡\n\n02:59.753 --> 03:22.539\n我們已經開始在編列預算未來幾年預算會投入雲端運算機房的這個建置所以之前是預算不足才落後只要我們預算編下去我們就會超前這個意思過去我們的重點可能比較注重在但是你會編預算別人日本韓國也會編預算所以我們在應用上也要再加強\n\n03:23.379 --> 03:32.103\n因為這個題目很大我覺得主委講的稍微抽象一點我覺得有機會的話你應該把它具體一點再跟大家討論因為你的目標很宏大但是大家現在看起來不曉得你的具體作法在哪裡如果說只有變預算恐怕還是不夠\n\n03:50.112 --> 04:02.288\n我們政府的綱要計畫方案已經編了編了以後接下來到年底之前就會有一些執行的真正的計畫就會出現到時候會跟大家來報告那今天我們的\n\n04:03.796 --> 04:22.345\n專題報告叫《永續科研與政策溝通》我知道為什麼早晚會排這個題目當然是因為有大概有600個學者吧就是針對國科會要把這幾個學門把它拆解重組表達非常的不滿我會表示這個不存在這個議題不存在但是因為我後來看了國科會對於後來到600個學者連署對這600個學者的回應實際上我覺得也是有點實問虛答\n\n04:31.989 --> 04:36.778\n因為國安會的講法是說沒有沒有我們的預算編列有增加說增加到48億是不是是嗎\n\n04:39.806 --> 05:05.640\n今年48億明年52億4.8億是國會本身但是我們永續的議題是100多億的因為你們的回應是4.8億啦但是我覺得學者應該在乎的不是錢的問題啦因為所有的一個研究它需要長期的戰略跟長期的規劃那你忽然間把一些學門它可能正在進行當中的學門你把它拆解重組對於它的研究它忽然打亂了報告委員沒有要拆解啦\n\n05:08.101 --> 05:22.288\n我知道我們學者學者是這樣覺得嘛所以這中間又出現很大的問題啊所以今天稍微排的是永續發展科研與政策溝通這就很奇怪就是說你在這邊講說完全沒有這個問題結果有600個學者連署反對你\n\n05:25.729 --> 05:50.094\n那大家吃飽撐著沒事幹去做這個事嗎?不可能嘛你一定是在溝通上出現了問題嘛如果你從來都沒有要去改變的話那人家是夢到嗎還是忽然間是怎樣有人造謠嗎?一定是你們在對外宣傳的部分透露出這樣的訊息大家緊張你可以說他超前部署所以他做了這個動作嘛過程當中絕對有問題你不可能說他們無緣故去做這個動作\n\n05:52.095 --> 06:11.232\n所以我覺得那個主委假設啦並沒有要拆解重組這件事情的話那你應該去檢討請問一下在政策溝通的過程當中出現什麼問題我覺得這個是今天可能啦我猜趙偉可能要排這個題目的原因啦但是呢這個你就自己因為等一下趙偉可能會罵你啦我就不多說話了\n\n06:12.934 --> 06:29.486\n但是我就想要繼續問因為今天既然講到永續發展跟所謂的淨零碳排我想問足了一個問題我們都知道其實中國大陸在這塊是表現非常優秀根據外媒的報導比如說至少他們在中國大陸在\n\n06:31.735 --> 06:31.995\n祖偉在剛上任時提到\n\n06:58.809 --> 07:08.509\n你不排斥跟中國的科技做交流你也說你也無意讓中國科技持續落後只要在合乎法律的情況之下國會都會支持跟對岸來往\n\n07:09.281 --> 07:32.331\n但是我們後來就看了一下現在的兩岸的交流我們就發現說好像屬於一種幾乎停滯的狀態左邊的圖是國際的交流其實在國際的交流方面就已經有下滑的趨勢你看2024年合定的件數355件已經比2017年幾乎腰斬左邊是國際的部分右邊是\n\n07:34.073 --> 08:02.475\n國科會補助邀請大陸地區暨香港澳門科技人士來台的這個申請跟核定表到2024年只有三件然後預算總共是只有19萬等於是說你只有大概補助19萬那我們在整個計畫大概編多少錢呢我們的整個計畫大概編了3億多3億多中國大陸的補助19萬其實它的比例是非常的低那除了這個資料之外還有另外我們也可以看到\n\n08:04.128 --> 08:20.871\n這是補助兩岸學術科技交流的申請跟核定的件數。2024年申請18件,核定5件。不管是申請件數跟核定件數都往下滑的趨勢。請教一下主委,現在兩岸到底學術是遇到什麼問題?\n\n08:22.782 --> 08:46.395\n我們國科會當然是一直鼓勵我們的學術研究我們的學者能夠跟全世界的學者交流往來才會進步那目前跟大陸方面的這樣的交流是受限於大陸方面對台灣的不友善的行為所引起的\n\n08:46.815 --> 09:10.025\n所以是我們是我們邀他不來還是說因為我們覺得他不友善所以我們連邀都沒邀我們即使我們邀他們啊他們他們的國內啊其實也有自己的限制存在那我們這邊也要透過我們不是只有國科會我們還有行政院的機制在對因為因為我的瞭解不是這樣瞭解是說現在\n\n09:11.105 --> 09:36.006\n你要申請學術對岸過來學術交流好像要專案審查嘛專案審查陸委會那邊就會擋了嘛那我是覺得學術歸學術政治歸政治啦就是說如果大家認為兩岸科技交流特別是我剛講在永續發展跟氣候變遷這一塊連美國都要跟中國大陸交流那台灣也可以秉持著就是科學交流的精神嘛對不對把政治撇一邊啦\n\n09:37.541 --> 10:00.960\n我記得這個也是竹偉你上任的一個理想你就是說只要在不違反法律的情況之下兩岸科技多交流是好事我們只要把法令允許可是實際上看得出來這個數字真的是下滑非常多我就覺得非常可惜我覺得非常可惜就是因為政治的關係讓科技無法持續的合作再來我想跟竹偉問一個計畫的進度比如說我們不是\n\n10:07.168 --> 10:11.712\n國會會在之前前主委吳政宗那時候就已經對外宣布說台灣要在\n\n10:12.912 --> 10:36.371\n布拉格捷克布拉格成立台灣第一座IC設計海外訓練基地那個時候講得非常的盛大那這件事情在賴清德總統今年6月接見捷克參議院的首席副議長德拉霍斯的時候也說在政府推動台捷任性計畫之下台灣第一個IC設計海外訓練基地要在布拉格落腳那當時講的\n\n10:38.838 --> 10:44.945\n時間是9月要落成那因為今天已經是9月最後一天了好不好這個今天會落成嗎?\n\n10:46.127 --> 11:13.699\n今天不會我跟委員報告因為捷克也是一個自由民主國家跟台灣一樣所以他們的執政聯盟其實多個政黨所組成的所以他們在內部針對我們跟我們合作的這個對象大學還有政府的單位其實還有一些不同多元的意見他們還在整合當中所以他們現在是他們不願意就對了\n\n11:14.019 --> 11:38.771\n不是不願意他們還在整合意見他們有怎麼樣的意見要需要整合就是執行的單位跟政府的應該想權責單位之間他們還在溝通那最近又碰到捷克的選舉所以中間有一點這個那你覺得你有信心說這個東西會落成嗎現在你等於是說你就是行政流程的問題嗎\n\n11:39.991 --> 12:04.226\n還有他們的政黨之間溝通政府溝通的問題所以確定會做這件事情只是9月沒完成只是可能會延緩那我們持續跟他們在討論那大概什麼時候他們現在因為選舉剛剛結束政府可能也會重組所以可能還是會再有一段時間我們並沒有說放棄啦並沒有放棄所以還是持續溝通大概什麼時候嘛因為你本來講9月嘛\n\n12:06.687 --> 12:07.388\n主委請回謝謝葉元之\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.223,"end":25.769,"text":"請問主委我順著柯政委員問一下你現在要編360億創南台灣的生態系推動方案打造南台灣成為人工智慧之島我想問一下北台灣你現在是要把AI移到南台灣去?"},{"start":27.923,"end":35.194,"text":"現在只是說平台放到南台灣但是服務的對象是全國的但產業也是涵蓋全國那對於北台灣你有什麼計畫嗎?"},{"start":42.039,"end":64.098,"text":"我們因為預算編列要逐年不能夠一下編太多所以北台灣我們也會做中台灣也會做怎麼做嗎?就是南台灣我們現在把平台建起來以後我們會尋同樣的模式因為要讓它成功如果不成功我們擴散也沒有用所以一樣的模式到時候會在中台灣跟北台灣做都會做南台灣你編的是五年的計畫"},{"start":65.419,"end":84.756,"text":"所以你預計什麼時候才會擴散到中台灣跟北台灣我們大概第一年執行以後大概就有個眉目了那北台灣其實我們在行政院已經有通過一個桃竹苗大細股的方案它的內容還沒有很具體所以當我們在內容還沒有很具體所以是"},{"start":85.296,"end":113.393,"text":"因為現在還在討論哪些區域要涵蓋進來所以有可能會在北台灣北台灣當然也會有 一定會有的就是說你也是要照顧一下我們北台灣也會 當然會希望不要太久因為聽起來現在好像還沒有具體的計畫可是預算有限我知道預算有限但是因為我們來自於北台灣當然希望能夠為北台灣爭取希望能夠快一點另外就是我們AI如果要成長的話用電量會大增你對於我們現在的電力有信心嗎"},{"start":115.134,"end":135.073,"text":"有信心有信心喔?你跟台電有研究過是不是?有問過台電?台電我跟還是台電有告訴你說絕對供電無虞?因為之前郭志輝部長也講說台灣要發展AI的話一定要可能不排除用核電後來但後來還有改口了啦現在對"},{"start":136.638,"end":153.149,"text":"好啦 這個我不為難你的主委總而言之就是你在產業的立場我覺得你也要如果說行政院有機會溝通的話也要注意他們要電的問題啦是然後另外一個就是說因為我看到你在立法院詢答的時候很有信心啦就是說台灣應該在3年內我們的AI實力會超過日韓啦"},{"start":155.179,"end":178.873,"text":"但是我們立法院預算中心所提出來的報告他指出我們AI排名跟超級電腦算力持續落後而且根據國際排名AI的準備度112年世界排名是14名現在下滑到19名落後新加坡南韓日本跟中國大陸所以如果你要在三年之內超過南韓的信心來自於哪裡"},{"start":179.753,"end":202.539,"text":"我們已經開始在編列預算未來幾年預算會投入雲端運算機房的這個建置所以之前是預算不足才落後只要我們預算編下去我們就會超前這個意思過去我們的重點可能比較注重在但是你會編預算別人日本韓國也會編預算所以我們在應用上也要再加強"},{"start":203.379,"end":212.103,"text":"因為這個題目很大我覺得主委講的稍微抽象一點我覺得有機會的話你應該把它具體一點再跟大家討論因為你的目標很宏大但是大家現在看起來不曉得你的具體作法在哪裡如果說只有變預算恐怕還是不夠"},{"start":230.112,"end":242.288,"text":"我們政府的綱要計畫方案已經編了編了以後接下來到年底之前就會有一些執行的真正的計畫就會出現到時候會跟大家來報告那今天我們的"},{"start":243.796,"end":262.345,"text":"專題報告叫《永續科研與政策溝通》我知道為什麼早晚會排這個題目當然是因為有大概有600個學者吧就是針對國科會要把這幾個學門把它拆解重組表達非常的不滿我會表示這個不存在這個議題不存在但是因為我後來看了國科會對於後來到600個學者連署對這600個學者的回應實際上我覺得也是有點實問虛答"},{"start":271.989,"end":276.778,"text":"因為國安會的講法是說沒有沒有我們的預算編列有增加說增加到48億是不是 是嗎"},{"start":279.806,"end":305.64,"text":"今年48億明年52億4.8億是國會本身但是我們永續的議題是100多億的因為你們的回應是4.8億啦但是我覺得學者應該在乎的不是錢的問題啦因為所有的一個研究它需要長期的戰略跟長期的規劃那你忽然間把一些學門它可能正在進行當中的學門你把它拆解重組對於它的研究它忽然打亂了報告委員沒有要拆解啦"},{"start":308.101,"end":322.288,"text":"我知道我們學者學者是這樣覺得嘛所以這中間又出現很大的問題啊所以今天稍微排的是永續發展科研與政策溝通這就很奇怪就是說你在這邊講說完全沒有這個問題結果有600個學者連署反對你"},{"start":325.729,"end":350.094,"text":"那大家吃飽撐著沒事幹去做這個事嗎?不可能嘛你一定是在溝通上出現了問題嘛如果你從來都沒有要去改變的話那人家是夢到嗎還是忽然間是怎樣有人造謠嗎?一定是你們在對外宣傳的部分透露出這樣的訊息大家緊張你可以說他超前部署所以他做了這個動作嘛過程當中絕對有問題你不可能說他們無緣故去做這個動作"},{"start":352.095,"end":371.232,"text":"所以我覺得那個主委假設啦並沒有要拆解重組這件事情的話那你應該去檢討請問一下在政策溝通的過程當中出現什麼問題我覺得這個是今天可能啦我猜趙偉可能要排這個題目的原因啦但是呢這個你就自己因為等一下趙偉可能會罵你啦我就不多說話了"},{"start":372.934,"end":389.486,"text":"但是我就想要繼續問因為今天既然講到永續發展跟所謂的淨零碳排我想問足了一個問題我們都知道其實中國大陸在這塊是表現非常優秀根據外媒的報導比如說至少他們在中國大陸在"},{"start":391.735,"end":391.995,"text":"祖偉在剛上任時提到"},{"start":418.809,"end":428.509,"text":"你不排斥跟中國的科技做交流你也說你也無意讓中國科技持續落後只要在合乎法律的情況之下國會都會支持跟對岸來往"},{"start":429.281,"end":452.331,"text":"但是我們後來就看了一下現在的兩岸的交流我們就發現說好像屬於一種幾乎停滯的狀態左邊的圖是國際的交流其實在國際的交流方面就已經有下滑的趨勢你看2024年合定的件數355件已經比2017年幾乎腰斬左邊是國際的部分右邊是"},{"start":454.073,"end":482.475,"text":"國科會補助邀請大陸地區暨香港澳門科技人士來台的這個申請跟核定表到2024年只有三件然後預算總共是只有19萬等於是說你只有大概補助19萬那我們在整個計畫大概編多少錢呢我們的整個計畫大概編了3億多3億多中國大陸的補助19萬其實它的比例是非常的低那除了這個資料之外還有另外我們也可以看到"},{"start":484.128,"end":500.871,"text":"這是補助兩岸學術科技交流的申請跟核定的件數。2024年申請18件,核定5件。不管是申請件數跟核定件數都往下滑的趨勢。請教一下主委,現在兩岸到底學術是遇到什麼問題?"},{"start":502.782,"end":526.395,"text":"我們國科會當然是一直鼓勵我們的學術研究我們的學者能夠跟全世界的學者交流往來才會進步那目前跟大陸方面的這樣的交流是受限於大陸方面對台灣的不友善的行為所引起的"},{"start":526.815,"end":550.025,"text":"所以是我們是我們邀他不來還是說因為我們覺得他不友善所以我們連邀都沒邀我們即使我們邀他們啊他們他們的國內啊其實也有自己的限制存在那我們這邊也要透過我們不是只有國科會我們還有行政院的機制在對因為因為我的瞭解不是這樣瞭解是說現在"},{"start":551.105,"end":576.006,"text":"你要申請學術對岸過來學術交流好像要專案審查嘛專案審查陸委會那邊就會擋了嘛那我是覺得學術歸學術政治歸政治啦就是說如果大家認為兩岸科技交流特別是我剛講在永續發展跟氣候變遷這一塊連美國都要跟中國大陸交流那台灣也可以秉持著就是科學交流的精神嘛對不對把政治撇一邊啦"},{"start":577.541,"end":600.96,"text":"我記得這個也是竹偉你上任的一個理想你就是說只要在不違反法律的情況之下兩岸科技多交流是好事我們只要把法令允許可是實際上看得出來這個數字真的是下滑非常多我就覺得非常可惜我覺得非常可惜就是因為政治的關係讓科技無法持續的合作再來我想跟竹偉問一個計畫的進度比如說我們不是"},{"start":607.168,"end":611.712,"text":"國會會在之前前主委吳政宗那時候就已經對外宣布說台灣要在"},{"start":612.912,"end":636.371,"text":"布拉格捷克布拉格成立台灣第一座IC設計海外訓練基地那個時候講得非常的盛大那這件事情在賴清德總統今年6月接見捷克參議院的首席副議長德拉霍斯的時候也說在政府推動台捷任性計畫之下台灣第一個IC設計海外訓練基地要在布拉格落腳那當時講的"},{"start":638.838,"end":644.945,"text":"時間是9月要落成那因為今天已經是9月最後一天了好不好這個今天會落成嗎?"},{"start":646.127,"end":673.699,"text":"今天不會我跟委員報告因為捷克也是一個自由民主國家跟台灣一樣所以他們的執政聯盟其實多個政黨所組成的所以他們在內部針對我們跟我們合作的這個對象大學還有政府的單位其實還有一些不同多元的意見他們還在整合當中所以他們現在是他們不願意就對了"},{"start":674.019,"end":698.771,"text":"不是不願意他們還在整合意見他們有怎麼樣的意見要需要整合就是執行的單位跟政府的應該想權責單位之間他們還在溝通那最近又碰到捷克的選舉所以中間有一點這個那你覺得你有信心說這個東西會落成嗎現在你等於是說你就是行政流程的問題嗎"},{"start":699.991,"end":724.226,"text":"還有他們的政黨之間溝通政府溝通的問題所以確定會做這件事情只是9月沒完成只是可能會延緩那我們持續跟他們在討論那大概什麼時候他們現在因為選舉剛剛結束政府可能也會重組所以可能還是會再有一段時間我們並沒有說放棄啦並沒有放棄所以還是持續溝通大概什麼時候嘛因為你本來講9月嘛"},{"start":726.687,"end":727.388,"text":"主委請回謝謝葉元之"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:50:09 - 10:02:33","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【9月30日及10月3日二天一次會】）","id":154943,"gazette":{"lineno":310,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（9時50分）我要請吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：吳主委好，我順著柯志恩委員問一下，因為你現在要編360億創一個南臺灣生態系推動方案，打造南臺灣成為人工智慧之島，我想問一下，那我們北臺灣呢？你現在是要把AI移到南臺灣去，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在只是把平臺放到南臺灣，但是服務的對象是全國的……"],["葉委員元之：但是產業，我講的是產業。"],["吳主任委員誠文：產業也是涵蓋全國。"],["葉委員元之：涵蓋全國，對於北臺灣你有什麼計畫嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為預算編列要逐年，不能夠一下編太多，所以北臺灣我們也會做、中臺灣也會做。"],["葉委員元之：怎麼做嘛？怎麼做？現在就是問你怎麼做？"],["吳主任委員誠文：就是我們現在在南臺灣把平臺建起來以後，我們會循同樣的模式，因為要讓它成功，如果不成功，我們擴散也沒有用。"],["葉委員元之：所以一樣的模式，到時候會在中臺灣跟北臺灣做？"],["吳主任委員誠文：都會做。"],["葉委員元之：你編的是南臺灣五年的計畫，所以你預計什麼時候才會擴散到中臺灣跟北臺灣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們第一年執行以後，大概就有個眉目了。"],["葉委員元之：對。"],["吳主任委員誠文：而北臺灣，其實我們在行政院已經有通過一個桃竹苗大矽谷的方案，它的內容還沒有很具體，所以當我們在……"],["葉委員元之：內容還沒有很具體？所以是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為現在還在討論哪些區域要涵蓋進來嘛！"],["葉委員元之：所以有可能會在北臺灣，是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：北臺灣當然也會有、一定會有的。"],["葉委員元之：就是說你也是要照顧一下我們北臺灣啦。"],["吳主任委員誠文：也會，當然會。"],["葉委員元之：好，希望不要太久啦！因為聽起來現在還沒有具體的計畫。"],["吳主任委員誠文：可是預算有限啦！"],["葉委員元之：我知道預算有限，但是因為我們來自北臺灣，當然希望能夠為北臺灣爭取，希望能夠快一點。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。"],["葉委員元之：另外，就是我們的AI如果要成長的話，用電量會大增，您對於我們現在的電力有信心嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有信心。"],["葉委員元之：有信心喔？你跟你跟台電有研究過，是不是？有問過台電？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我跟台電……"],["葉委員元之：還是台電有告訴你說絕對供電無虞？因為之前郭智輝部長也講說臺灣要發展AI的話可能不排除用核電，但後來他又改口了啦。"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在……"],["葉委員元之：好啦，這個我不為難你，主委，總而言之，你站在產業的立場，我覺得如果行政院有機會溝通的話，也要注意他們電的問題啦。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：然後另外一個就是，因為我看到你在立法院詢答的時候很有信心說臺灣應該在三年內，我們的AI實力會超過日韓，但是立法院預算中心所提出來的報告指出，我們的AI排名跟超級電腦算力持續落後，而且根據國際排名，有關AI的準備度，112年世界排名是14名，現在下滑到19名，落後新加坡、南韓、日本跟中國大陸，所以如果你要在三年之內超過南韓，信心來自於哪裡？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們已經開始在編列未來幾年的預算，會投入雲端運算機房設備的建置。"],["葉委員元之：所以之前是預算不足才落後，只要我們預算編下去，我們就會超前，是不是這個意思？"],["吳主任委員誠文：過去我們的重點可能比較注重在硬體。"],["葉委員元之：但是你會編預算，日本、韓國也會編預算。"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以我們在運用上也要再加強。"],["葉委員元之：反正你有這個……"],["吳主任委員誠文：加強以後，我們會吸引產業界投入，所以不能只靠政府編列預算，產業界投入的速度會比政府還快。"],["葉委員元之：因為這個題目很大啦，我覺得主委講得稍微抽象一點，有機會的話，你應該把它具體一點再跟大家來討論。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。"],["葉委員元之：因為你的目標很宏大，但是大家現在看起來不曉得你的具體作法在哪裡，如果說只有編預算，恐怕還是不夠啦。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們政府的綱要計畫方案已經編了。"],["葉委員元之：OK！"],["吳主任委員誠文：編了以後，接下來到年底之前就會有一些執行的真正計畫會出現，到時候會跟大家來報告。"],["葉委員元之：今天我們的專題報告叫做永續科研與政策溝通，我知道為什麼召委會排這個題目，當然是因為大概有600個學者針對國科會要把這幾個學門拆解、重組，表達非常的不滿，所以……"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會表示這個不存在，這個議題不存在，是誤會。"],["葉委員元之：不存在是不是？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：但是，因為我看了國科會對於後來這600個學者連署的回應，實際上，我覺得也是有點實問虛答啦！因為國發會的講法是說沒有，你們的預算編列有增加，增加到48億，是嗎？今年48億，明年52億？"],["吳主任委員誠文：4.8億，是國科會本身。"],["葉委員元之：4.8億，好。"],["吳主任委員誠文：但是我們永續議題是一百多億。"],["葉委員元之：因為你的回應是4.8億啦！但是我覺得學者應該在乎的不是錢的問題，因為所有的研究需要長期的戰略跟長期的規劃，你忽然間把一些可能正在進行當中的學門，你把它拆解重組，對於他的研究就忽然打亂了……"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，沒有要拆解啦，我知道我們學者都非常……"],["葉委員元之：學者是這樣覺得，所以這中間又出現很大的問題啊！所以今天召委排的是永續發展科研與政策溝通，這就很奇怪，你在這邊講說完全沒有這個問題，結果有600個學者連署反對你，那大家吃飽撐著沒事幹去做這個事嗎？不可能嘛！你一定是在溝通上出現了問題。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：如果你從來都沒有要去改變的話，那人家是夢到嗎？還是突然間有人造謠嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：可能我……"],["葉委員元之：一定是你們在對外宣傳的部分透露出這樣的訊息，大家緊張，你可以說他超前部署，所以他做了這個動作，過程當中絕對有問題，你不可能說他們無緣無故去做這個動作，對不對？所以我覺得，主委，假設並沒有要拆解重組這件事情的話，那你應該去檢討，請問一下在政策溝通的過程當中出現什麼問題？我覺得這是今天我猜召委要排這個題目的原因，因為等一下召委可能會罵你啦，我就不多說話了。","但是我就想要繼續問，因為今天既然講到永續發展跟所謂的淨零碳排，我想問主委一個問題，我們都知道，其實中國大陸在這一塊是表現非常優秀，根據外媒的報導，譬如至少中國大陸在碳捕捉再利用或電動車或太陽能的面板都是世界第一。像美國，基本上大家都知道美中也是在競爭或者是在鬥爭，都可以啦，但對於氣候變遷這個議題，他們也想要跟中國大陸來合作。","可是我記得，主委你在剛上任的時候有提到，你說你不排斥跟中國的科技做交流，你說你也無意讓中國科技持續落後，只要在合乎法律的情況之下，國科會都會支持跟對岸來往，但是我們後來去看了一下現在兩岸的交流，我們就發現好像屬於一種幾乎停滯的狀態，左邊的圖是國際的交流，其實在國際的交流方面就已經有下滑的趨勢，你看，2024年核定的件數355件，已經比2017年幾乎腰斬。左邊是國際的部分，右邊是國科會補助邀請大陸地區暨香港、澳門科技人士來臺的申請核定表，到2024年只有3件，預算總共是只有19萬，等於是你大概只有補助19萬，我們在整個計畫大概編多少錢呢？整個計畫大概編了3億多，對照中國大陸補助19萬，其實它的比例是非常的低。","除了這個資料之外，還有另外我們也可以看到這個是補助兩岸學術科技交流的申請跟核定的件數，2024年申請18件，核定5件，不管是申請件數跟核定件數都有往下滑的趨勢。請教一下主委，現在到底兩岸的學術交流是遇到什麼問題？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們國科會當然是一直鼓勵我們的學術研究及我們的學者能夠跟全世界的學者交流往來才會進步，目前跟大陸方面這樣的交流是受限於大陸方面對臺灣不友善的行為所引起的。"],["葉委員元之：所以是我們邀，他不來，還是說因為我們覺得他不友善，所以我們連邀都沒邀？"],["吳主任委員誠文：即使我們邀他們，他們國內其實也有自己的限制存在，我們這邊也要透過不是只有國科會，還有行政院的機制在審查。"],["葉委員元之：對，因為我的了解又不是這樣，我的了解是說現在你要申請對岸過來學術交流，好像要專案審查。"],["吳主任委員誠文：要審查。"],["葉委員元之：而專案審查，陸委會那邊就會擋了嘛！我是覺得學術歸學術，政治歸政治啦！就是說，如果大家認為兩岸科技交流，特別是我剛剛講的在永續發展跟氣候變遷這一塊，連美國都要跟中國大陸交流，臺灣也可以秉持著科學交流的精神，對不對？把政治撇一邊啦！我記得這個也是主委你上任的一個理想，你就說只要在不違反法律的情況之下，兩岸科技多交流是好事。"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，我們只要法令允許……"],["葉委員元之：可是實際上，看得出來這個數字真的是下滑非常多，我覺得非常可惜！因為政治的關係讓科技無法持續的合作。","再來，我想跟主委問一個計畫的進度，之前國科會在前主委吳政忠那時候就已經對外宣布說，臺灣要在捷克布拉格成立臺灣第一座IC設計海外訓練基地，那個時候講得非常的盛大，這件事情在賴清德總統今年6月接見捷克參議院的首席副議長德拉霍斯的時候也說，在政府推動臺捷韌性計畫之下，臺灣第一個IC設計海外訓練基地要在布拉格落腳。當時講的時間是9月要落成，因為今天已經是9月最後一天了，今天會落成嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：今天不會。"],["葉委員元之：不會！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我跟委員報告，因為捷克也是一個自由民主國家，跟臺灣一樣，所以他們的執政聯盟其實是多個政黨所組成的，因此他們內部針對跟我們合作的對象──大學還有政府單位，其實他們還有一些不同、多元的意見在整合當中。"],["葉委員元之：所以現在是他們不願意就對了？"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是不願意，他們還在整合意見當中。"],["葉委員元之：整合意見？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們並沒有……"],["葉委員元之：他們有怎麼樣的意見需要整合？"],["吳主任委員誠文：就是執行的單位跟政府的權責單位之間他們還在溝通，最近又碰到捷克的選舉，所以中間有一點……"],["葉委員元之：那你有信心這個東西會落成嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我有信心。"],["葉委員元之：現在你說是行政流程的問題嘛。"],["吳主任委員誠文：行政流程的問題……"],["葉委員元之：還有他們政黨之間、政府溝通的問題。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，碰到……"],["葉委員元之：所以確定會做這件事，只是9月沒辦法完成？"],["吳主任委員誠文：只是可能會延緩，我們持續跟他們討論。"],["葉委員元之：那大概什麼時候？"],["吳主任委員誠文：他們現在因為選舉剛結束，政府可能也會重組，所以可能還要再一段時間，我們並沒有放棄，所以還是持續溝通，看看怎麼……"],["葉委員元之：大概什麼時候嘛？因為本來講9月，如果到年底我想大家應該可以接受啦，但如果又要拖個兩、三年，當初宣傳成那樣……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們也希望在今年可以……"],["葉委員元之：希望今年底可以完成。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是！"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝。"],["主席：主委請回，謝謝葉元之委員。","再來，請林倩綺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","葉元之","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","張雅琳","林宜瑾","洪申翰","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","翁曉玲","游顥"],"page_start":217,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00012"}}}