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\"start\": 474.478, \"end\": 474.498, \"score\": 0.995}]}, {\"start\": 474.898, \"end\": 475.058, \"text\": \"東岸廣場案\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 474.898, \"end\": 475.038, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 475.038, \"end\": 475.058, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 497.523, \"end\": 498.084, \"text\": \"資訊委員會主委今天負責人在場嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 497.523, \"end\": 497.583, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 497.583, \"end\": 497.603, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 497.603, \"end\": 497.643, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 497.643, \"end\": 497.783, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 497.783, \"end\": 497.923, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 497.923, \"end\": 498.024, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 498.024, 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 529.218, \"end\": 529.318, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 529.318, \"end\": 529.658, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 529.658, \"end\": 529.778, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 529.778, \"end\": 530.798, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 530.798, \"end\": 531.038, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 531.038, \"end\": 531.218, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 531.218, \"end\": 531.719, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 531.719, \"end\": 532.139, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 532.139, \"end\": 532.299, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 532.299, \"end\": 532.459, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 532.459, \"end\": 532.659, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 532.659, \"end\": 532.859, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 532.859, \"end\": 533.099, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 533.099, \"end\": 533.399, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 533.399, \"end\": 533.939, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 533.939, \"end\": 535.019, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 535.019, \"end\": 535.26, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 535.26, \"end\": 535.36, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 535.36, \"end\": 535.4, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"契\", \"start\": 535.4, \"end\": 535.42, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"約\"}]}, {\"start\": 537.06, \"end\": 541.042, \"text\": \"所以這樣講起來說公共工程委員會對這個案子完全無法負責完全無法介入就對了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 537.06, \"end\": 537.74, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 537.74, \"end\": 537.76, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 537.76, \"end\": 537.86, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 537.86, \"end\": 537.901, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 537.901, \"end\": 537.941, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 537.941, \"end\": 538.061, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 538.061, \"end\": 538.161, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 538.161, \"end\": 538.201, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 538.201, \"end\": 538.461, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 538.461, \"end\": 538.801, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 538.801, \"end\": 539.001, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 539.001, \"end\": 539.121, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 539.121, \"end\": 539.321, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 539.321, \"end\": 539.521, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 539.521, \"end\": 539.741, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 539.741, \"end\": 539.922, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 539.922, \"end\": 540.142, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 540.142, \"end\": 540.382, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 540.382, \"end\": 540.642, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"介\", \"start\": 540.642, \"end\": 540.822, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 540.822, \"end\": 540.942, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 540.942, \"end\": 541.022, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 541.022, \"end\": 541.042, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 560.633, \"end\": 572.715, \"text\": \"如果說是請我們從政府採購企業的角度來提供一些意見那我想我們是可以提供這樣的一個所以我問OT如果要換ROT是不是要經過重新招標\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 560.633, \"end\": 560.774, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 560.774, \"end\": 561.074, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 561.074, \"end\": 561.575, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 561.575, \"end\": 563.038, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 563.038, \"end\": 563.258, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 563.258, \"end\": 564.18, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 564.18, \"end\": 564.5, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 564.5, \"end\": 564.661, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 564.661, \"end\": 564.921, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 564.921, \"end\": 565.342, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 565.342, \"end\": 565.522, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 565.522, \"end\": 565.722, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 565.722, \"end\": 565.803, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 565.803, \"end\": 565.963, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 565.963, \"end\": 566.844, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 566.844, \"end\": 567.005, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 567.005, \"end\": 567.105, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 567.105, \"end\": 567.285, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 567.285, \"end\": 567.546, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 567.546, \"end\": 567.686, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 567.686, \"end\": 567.806, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 567.806, \"end\": 567.906, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 567.906, \"end\": 568.027, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 568.027, \"end\": 568.507, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 568.507, \"end\": 568.648, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 568.648, \"end\": 568.868, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 568.868, \"end\": 568.968, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 568.968, \"end\": 569.028, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 569.028, \"end\": 569.329, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 569.329, \"end\": 569.589, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 569.589, \"end\": 569.85, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 569.85, \"end\": 569.99, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 569.99, \"end\": 570.11, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 570.11, \"end\": 570.23, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"R\", \"start\": 570.23, \"end\": 570.431, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 570.431, \"end\": 570.771, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 570.771, \"end\": 570.932, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 570.932, \"end\": 571.052, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 571.052, \"end\": 571.172, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 571.172, \"end\": 571.994, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 571.994, \"end\": 572.354, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 572.354, \"end\": 572.535, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 572.535, \"end\": 572.695, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"招\", \"start\": 572.695, \"end\": 572.715, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"標\"}]}, {\"start\": 574.451, \"end\": 600.005, \"text\": \"通案來講OT如果說他在OT如果說在期限他要變成ROT的話是不是需要公開是不是需要重新招標因為他不是走政府採購所以他沒有所謂公開不公開招標的問題因為他看起來有可能是走促餐那促餐因為他根本就沒有走政府採購的程序那OT的話ROT如果說就是不需要重新再招標就可以直接這樣做囉您現在這句話我隨時會議上面都有記錄喔\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 574.451, \"end\": 574.691, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 574.691, \"end\": 575.332, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"O\", 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0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 603.447, \"end\": 603.647, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 603.647, \"end\": 603.767, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 603.767, \"end\": 603.847, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 603.847, \"end\": 603.947, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 603.947, \"end\": 603.967, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,058 --> 00:00:35,045\n好謝謝主席有請陳主委請陳主委好委員長主委長您是公共工程委員會的主委所以有關合約有關所有公共工程的合約由您來做解釋應該是最好的人選那我那個有一句話叫做政府的採購法的精神是維護公共利益以及公平合理請問您是否認同\n\n2\n00:00:36,476 --> 00:00:39,297\n立法院預算中心針對政府媒體宣傳費報告指出各機關媒宣費連續3年的得標廠商\n\n3\n00:00:55,022 --> 00:01:06,655\n採限制性招標居多而且得標廠商集中度甚高以至於政府的政策及宣傳業務未能擴及社會大眾必須檢討試妥性\n\n4\n00:01:08,291 --> 00:01:36,965\n那我們也都知道說採用限制性招標跟選擇性招標大多數的廠商連進場的資格都無法取得更不用說比較所以說限制性招標也好選擇性招標也好雖然比較方便但對機關是不需要經過冗長的公開上網及標期的規定所以直接聯絡廠商請適合的廠商適合這個是主觀的適合的廠商來進行報價然後但是其實對於其他可以想要競標的廠商這是很不公平的方式\n\n5\n00:01:37,785 --> 00:01:49,878\n而且最直接的如果機關的公務員若有圖利特定廠商的情形更不容易藉不公開的漏洞只找同一批的廠商來採購形成堅強的共犯結構\n\n6\n00:01:56,204 --> 00:02:12,753\n雖然說我們政府採購法22條明令的可以不用公開招標的方式來去例外而機關可以選擇適當的廠商進行議價依法永續但是請問請問一下主委您認為這樣符合政府採購法的精神嗎\n\n7\n00:02:15,119 --> 00:02:31,984\n政府採購法裏面的招標方式有很多種包括限制性招標所以每個機關採取他要的招標方式這個我們尊重機關的意見而且都合法所以說您對於具體的改善有沒有提出什麼具體的改善方向呢\n\n8\n00:02:32,588 --> 00:02:37,452\n那我想請問一下主委您今年公共工程委員會的媒體宣傳費用去年是多少?那今年呢?\n\n9\n00:03:00,251 --> 00:03:06,035\n也是220萬那請問去說那請問得票廠商是哪裡我可能請相關來說明吧\n\n10\n00:03:12,143 --> 00:03:32,177\n報告委員去年是泰宜廣告公司那主要是在辦金職獎那今年是一位比較新創的一個媒體公司那我們就是拍這個金職獎的宣傳還有兩性平權的這些宣傳影片有KPI嗎\n\n11\n00:03:33,188 --> 00:03:55,106\n你們內部一定有KPI的因為我曾經在港務公司待過我知道內部有KPI是跟委員報告這個部分我們就是有訂那個收視就是點閱率這些點閱率220萬那請問點閱率的影片大概多少點閱率的影片我們我們是一個\n\n12\n00:03:57,452 --> 00:04:19,369\n抱歉我們手上的資料是總計的是曝光數是1300萬次點閱率是18萬次幾支影片我們總共有一部5分鐘的然後還有濃縮版的影片30秒的所以幾支應該是5支左右4支全部加起來多少18000次18萬次\n\n13\n00:04:23,464 --> 00:04:23,884\n分享次數幾次點擊\n\n14\n00:04:37,044 --> 00:04:54,321\n點擊有九萬兩千兩百九十六次我們有一個曝光一個是曝光那另外一個是粉絲我知道我知道我自己我自己都在關於自己粉絲專頁這個是金職講金職講的內容那麼包括一些相關工程達人的一些影片比較屬於單純是\n\n15\n00:04:56,383 --> 00:04:58,364\n工程會的政策\n\n16\n00:05:28,245 --> 00:05:45,063\n還有另外一個問題我還是回到合約因為合約一個限制性招標一個是限制性招標跟我們看到的所謂的選擇性招標之外我也想請問一下OT跟ROT不同在哪裡?\n\n17\n00:05:46,732 --> 00:06:11,634\nROT是等於是重建重建然後這個操作然後再轉移嘛那OT是操作轉移嘛那這個我提報告委員這個業務已經是財政部的業務了那我只是問清楚合約上面以前是工程會的業務現在出差的部分是財政部的業務我知道可是您還是可以解說是OT換ROT需不需要重新招標\n\n18\n00:06:14,062 --> 00:06:38,124\n我想我請負責合約組密來回答我只想知道是不是需要重新招標公務員報告就是招標的時候基本上就有權利義務關係所以這個OT或ROT在招標的時候會說明清楚所以說如果是一個OT案直接換成ROT說有OT的精神這樣子合法嗎\n\n19\n00:06:39,223 --> 00:06:57,962\n報告委員這一位涉及到個案的7月變更的內容和他的容許性所以這個可能要個案來看所以說這樣子來講的話如果一個案子假設說我今天有個優良廠商我跟你圈的是OT合約然後慢慢就直接找另外一個協力廠商然後變成ROT這樣在法律上是允許的囉\n\n20\n00:06:59,315 --> 00:07:23,831\n我想再跟委員報告促參的部分主管機關是財政部所以不管OTROTBOT全部是財政部如果說財政部說它是違法的呢這個是財政部做解釋那工程會呢針對是政府採購如果說它有違反政府採購我們工程會會去了解我只是有一個問題想說他不方便去幫財政部去做相關的這個促參法的相關的解釋\n\n21\n00:07:24,671 --> 00:07:30,142\n我為什麼把這件事特意邀他出來談的原因是說因為不管是您現在的講法跟\n\n22\n00:07:31,534 --> 00:07:54,498\n當初吳哲成吳前主委的講法都是經過講起來我個程度上你說是個案個案不過如果以通案來講是不是應該要經過一個重新招標的簡訊呢我可能要檢視一下他的原始合約啦原始合約如果有雙方合意說OT期限到了之後能夠繼續做重建的話我想還是根據合約如果OT還沒到就直接做ROT呢我們還是看原來合約來看\n\n23\n00:07:54,898 --> 00:07:55,058\n東岸廣場案\n\n24\n00:08:17,523 --> 00:08:18,084\n資訊委員會主委今天負責人在場嗎?\n\n25\n00:08:40,115 --> 00:08:55,420\n針對東岸基隆市東岸廣場的案子,OT直接抓AUT,請問這樣是合法的嗎?而且在OT的合約還沒到之前,請問這樣是合法的嗎?先跟委員報告,就是說原則上因為我們是處理政府採購的契約\n\n26\n00:08:57,060 --> 00:09:01,042\n所以這樣講起來說公共工程委員會對這個案子完全無法負責完全無法介入就對了\n\n27\n00:09:20,633 --> 00:09:32,715\n如果說是請我們從政府採購企業的角度來提供一些意見那我想我們是可以提供這樣的一個所以我問OT如果要換ROT是不是要經過重新招標\n\n28\n00:09:34,451 --> 00:10:00,005\n通案來講OT如果說他在OT如果說在期限他要變成ROT的話是不是需要公開是不是需要重新招標因為他不是走政府採購所以他沒有所謂公開不公開招標的問題因為他看起來有可能是走促餐那促餐因為他根本就沒有走政府採購的程序那OT的話ROT如果說就是不需要重新再招標就可以直接這樣做囉您現在這句話我隨時會議上面都有記錄喔\n\n29\n00:10:03,447 --> 00:10:03,967\n好謝謝主委謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6058\t35045\t好謝謝主席有請陳主委請陳主委好委員長主委長您是公共工程委員會的主委所以有關合約有關所有公共工程的合約由您來做解釋應該是最好的人選那我那個有一句話叫做政府的採購法的精神是維護公共利益以及公平合理請問您是否認同\n36476\t39297\t立法院預算中心針對政府媒體宣傳費報告指出各機關媒宣費連續3年的得標廠商\n55022\t66655\t採限制性招標居多而且得標廠商集中度甚高以至於政府的政策及宣傳業務未能擴及社會大眾必須檢討試妥性\n68291\t96965\t那我們也都知道說採用限制性招標跟選擇性招標大多數的廠商連進場的資格都無法取得更不用說比較所以說限制性招標也好選擇性招標也好雖然比較方便但對機關是不需要經過冗長的公開上網及標期的規定所以直接聯絡廠商請適合的廠商適合這個是主觀的適合的廠商來進行報價然後但是其實對於其他可以想要競標的廠商這是很不公平的方式\n97785\t109878\t而且最直接的如果機關的公務員若有圖利特定廠商的情形更不容易藉不公開的漏洞只找同一批的廠商來採購形成堅強的共犯結構\n116204\t132753\t雖然說我們政府採購法22條明令的可以不用公開招標的方式來去例外而機關可以選擇適當的廠商進行議價依法永續但是請問請問一下主委您認為這樣符合政府採購法的精神嗎\n135119\t151984\t政府採購法裏面的招標方式有很多種包括限制性招標所以每個機關採取他要的招標方式這個我們尊重機關的意見而且都合法所以說您對於具體的改善有沒有提出什麼具體的改善方向呢\n152588\t157452\t那我想請問一下主委您今年公共工程委員會的媒體宣傳費用去年是多少?那今年呢?\n180251\t186035\t也是220萬那請問去說那請問得票廠商是哪裡我可能請相關來說明吧\n192143\t212177\t報告委員去年是泰宜廣告公司那主要是在辦金職獎那今年是一位比較新創的一個媒體公司那我們就是拍這個金職獎的宣傳還有兩性平權的這些宣傳影片有KPI嗎\n213188\t235106\t你們內部一定有KPI的因為我曾經在港務公司待過我知道內部有KPI是跟委員報告這個部分我們就是有訂那個收視就是點閱率這些點閱率220萬那請問點閱率的影片大概多少點閱率的影片我們我們是一個\n237452\t259369\t抱歉我們手上的資料是總計的是曝光數是1300萬次點閱率是18萬次幾支影片我們總共有一部5分鐘的然後還有濃縮版的影片30秒的所以幾支應該是5支左右4支全部加起來多少18000次18萬次\n263464\t263884\t分享次數幾次點擊\n277044\t294321\t點擊有九萬兩千兩百九十六次我們有一個曝光一個是曝光那另外一個是粉絲我知道我知道我自己我自己都在關於自己粉絲專頁這個是金職講金職講的內容那麼包括一些相關工程達人的一些影片比較屬於單純是\n296383\t298364\t工程會的政策\n328245\t345063\t還有另外一個問題我還是回到合約因為合約一個限制性招標一個是限制性招標跟我們看到的所謂的選擇性招標之外我也想請問一下OT跟ROT不同在哪裡?\n346732\t371634\tROT是等於是重建重建然後這個操作然後再轉移嘛那OT是操作轉移嘛那這個我提報告委員這個業務已經是財政部的業務了那我只是問清楚合約上面以前是工程會的業務現在出差的部分是財政部的業務我知道可是您還是可以解說是OT換ROT需不需要重新招標\n374062\t398124\t我想我請負責合約組密來回答我只想知道是不是需要重新招標公務員報告就是招標的時候基本上就有權利義務關係所以這個OT或ROT在招標的時候會說明清楚所以說如果是一個OT案直接換成ROT說有OT的精神這樣子合法嗎\n399223\t417962\t報告委員這一位涉及到個案的7月變更的內容和他的容許性所以這個可能要個案來看所以說這樣子來講的話如果一個案子假設說我今天有個優良廠商我跟你圈的是OT合約然後慢慢就直接找另外一個協力廠商然後變成ROT這樣在法律上是允許的囉\n419315\t443831\t我想再跟委員報告 促參的部分主管機關是財政部所以不管OT ROT BOT全部是財政部如果說財政部說它是違法的呢這個是財政部做解釋那工程會呢針對是政府採購 如果說它有違反政府採購我們工程會會去了解我只是有一個問題想說他不方便去幫財政部去做相關的這個促參法的相關的解釋\n444671\t450142\t我為什麼把這件事特意邀他出來談的原因是說因為不管是您現在的講法跟\n451534\t474498\t當初吳哲成吳前主委的講法都是經過講起來我個程度上你說是個案個案不過如果以通案來講是不是應該要經過一個重新招標的簡訊呢我可能要檢視一下他的原始合約啦原始合約如果有雙方合意說OT期限到了之後能夠繼續做重建的話我想還是根據合約如果OT還沒到就直接做ROT呢我們還是看原來合約來看\n474898\t475058\t東岸廣場案\n497523\t498084\t資訊委員會主委今天負責人在場嗎?\n520115\t535420\t針對東岸基隆市東岸廣場的案子,OT直接抓AUT,請問這樣是合法的嗎?而且在OT的合約還沒到之前,請問這樣是合法的嗎?先跟委員報告,就是說原則上因為我們是處理政府採購的契約\n537060\t541042\t所以這樣講起來說公共工程委員會對這個案子完全無法負責完全無法介入就對了\n560633\t572715\t如果說是請我們從政府採購企業的角度來提供一些意見那我想我們是可以提供這樣的一個所以我問OT如果要換ROT是不是要經過重新招標\n574451\t600005\t通案來講OT如果說他在OT如果說在期限他要變成ROT的話是不是需要公開是不是需要重新招標因為他不是走政府採購所以他沒有所謂公開不公開招標的問題因為他看起來有可能是走促餐那促餐因為他根本就沒有走政府採購的程序那OT的話ROT如果說就是不需要重新再招標就可以直接這樣做囉您現在這句話我隨時會議上面都有記錄喔\n603447\t603967\t好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請陳主委請陳主委好委員長主委長您是公共工程委員會的主委所以有關合約有關所有公共工程的合約由您來做解釋應該是最好的人選那我那個有一句話叫做政府的採購法的精神是維護公共利益以及公平合理請問您是否認同\n立法院預算中心針對政府媒體宣傳費報告指出各機關媒宣費連續3年的得標廠商\n採限制性招標居多而且得標廠商集中度甚高以至於政府的政策及宣傳業務未能擴及社會大眾必須檢討試妥性\n那我們也都知道說採用限制性招標跟選擇性招標大多數的廠商連進場的資格都無法取得更不用說比較所以說限制性招標也好選擇性招標也好雖然比較方便但對機關是不需要經過冗長的公開上網及標期的規定所以直接聯絡廠商請適合的廠商適合這個是主觀的適合的廠商來進行報價然後但是其實對於其他可以想要競標的廠商這是很不公平的方式\n而且最直接的如果機關的公務員若有圖利特定廠商的情形更不容易藉不公開的漏洞只找同一批的廠商來採購形成堅強的共犯結構\n雖然說我們政府採購法22條明令的可以不用公開招標的方式來去例外而機關可以選擇適當的廠商進行議價依法永續但是請問請問一下主委您認為這樣符合政府採購法的精神嗎\n政府採購法裏面的招標方式有很多種包括限制性招標所以每個機關採取他要的招標方式這個我們尊重機關的意見而且都合法所以說您對於具體的改善有沒有提出什麼具體的改善方向呢\n那我想請問一下主委您今年公共工程委員會的媒體宣傳費用去年是多少?那今年呢?\n也是220萬那請問去說那請問得票廠商是哪裡我可能請相關來說明吧\n報告委員去年是泰宜廣告公司那主要是在辦金職獎那今年是一位比較新創的一個媒體公司那我們就是拍這個金職獎的宣傳還有兩性平權的這些宣傳影片有KPI嗎\n你們內部一定有KPI的因為我曾經在港務公司待過我知道內部有KPI是跟委員報告這個部分我們就是有訂那個收視就是點閱率這些點閱率220萬那請問點閱率的影片大概多少點閱率的影片我們我們是一個\n抱歉我們手上的資料是總計的是曝光數是1300萬次點閱率是18萬次幾支影片我們總共有一部5分鐘的然後還有濃縮版的影片30秒的所以幾支應該是5支左右4支全部加起來多少18000次18萬次\n分享次數幾次點擊\n點擊有九萬兩千兩百九十六次我們有一個曝光一個是曝光那另外一個是粉絲我知道我知道我自己我自己都在關於自己粉絲專頁這個是金職講金職講的內容那麼包括一些相關工程達人的一些影片比較屬於單純是\n工程會的政策\n還有另外一個問題我還是回到合約因為合約一個限制性招標一個是限制性招標跟我們看到的所謂的選擇性招標之外我也想請問一下OT跟ROT不同在哪裡?\nROT是等於是重建重建然後這個操作然後再轉移嘛那OT是操作轉移嘛那這個我提報告委員這個業務已經是財政部的業務了那我只是問清楚合約上面以前是工程會的業務現在出差的部分是財政部的業務我知道可是您還是可以解說是OT換ROT需不需要重新招標\n我想我請負責合約組密來回答我只想知道是不是需要重新招標公務員報告就是招標的時候基本上就有權利義務關係所以這個OT或ROT在招標的時候會說明清楚所以說如果是一個OT案直接換成ROT說有OT的精神這樣子合法嗎\n報告委員這一位涉及到個案的7月變更的內容和他的容許性所以這個可能要個案來看所以說這樣子來講的話如果一個案子假設說我今天有個優良廠商我跟你圈的是OT合約然後慢慢就直接找另外一個協力廠商然後變成ROT這樣在法律上是允許的囉\n我想再跟委員報告 促參的部分主管機關是財政部所以不管OT ROT BOT全部是財政部如果說財政部說它是違法的呢這個是財政部做解釋那工程會呢針對是政府採購 如果說它有違反政府採購我們工程會會去了解我只是有一個問題想說他不方便去幫財政部去做相關的這個促參法的相關的解釋\n我為什麼把這件事特意邀他出來談的原因是說因為不管是您現在的講法跟\n當初吳哲成吳前主委的講法都是經過講起來我個程度上你說是個案個案不過如果以通案來講是不是應該要經過一個重新招標的簡訊呢我可能要檢視一下他的原始合約啦原始合約如果有雙方合意說OT期限到了之後能夠繼續做重建的話我想還是根據合約如果OT還沒到就直接做ROT呢我們還是看原來合約來看\n東岸廣場案\n資訊委員會主委今天負責人在場嗎?\n針對東岸基隆市東岸廣場的案子,OT直接抓AUT,請問這樣是合法的嗎?而且在OT的合約還沒到之前,請問這樣是合法的嗎?先跟委員報告,就是說原則上因為我們是處理政府採購的契約\n所以這樣講起來說公共工程委員會對這個案子完全無法負責完全無法介入就對了\n如果說是請我們從政府採購企業的角度來提供一些意見那我想我們是可以提供這樣的一個所以我問OT如果要換ROT是不是要經過重新招標\n通案來講OT如果說他在OT如果說在期限他要變成ROT的話是不是需要公開是不是需要重新招標因為他不是走政府採購所以他沒有所謂公開不公開招標的問題因為他看起來有可能是走促餐那促餐因為他根本就沒有走政府採購的程序那OT的話ROT如果說就是不需要重新再招標就可以直接這樣做囉您現在這句話我隨時會議上面都有記錄喔\n好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.058 --> 00:35.045\n好謝謝主席有請陳主委請陳主委好委員長主委長您是公共工程委員會的主委所以有關合約有關所有公共工程的合約由您來做解釋應該是最好的人選那我那個有一句話叫做政府的採購法的精神是維護公共利益以及公平合理請問您是否認同\n\n00:36.476 --> 00:39.297\n立法院預算中心針對政府媒體宣傳費報告指出各機關媒宣費連續3年的得標廠商\n\n00:55.022 --> 01:06.655\n採限制性招標居多而且得標廠商集中度甚高以至於政府的政策及宣傳業務未能擴及社會大眾必須檢討試妥性\n\n01:08.291 --> 01:36.965\n那我們也都知道說採用限制性招標跟選擇性招標大多數的廠商連進場的資格都無法取得更不用說比較所以說限制性招標也好選擇性招標也好雖然比較方便但對機關是不需要經過冗長的公開上網及標期的規定所以直接聯絡廠商請適合的廠商適合這個是主觀的適合的廠商來進行報價然後但是其實對於其他可以想要競標的廠商這是很不公平的方式\n\n01:37.785 --> 01:49.878\n而且最直接的如果機關的公務員若有圖利特定廠商的情形更不容易藉不公開的漏洞只找同一批的廠商來採購形成堅強的共犯結構\n\n01:56.204 --> 02:12.753\n雖然說我們政府採購法22條明令的可以不用公開招標的方式來去例外而機關可以選擇適當的廠商進行議價依法永續但是請問請問一下主委您認為這樣符合政府採購法的精神嗎\n\n02:15.119 --> 02:31.984\n政府採購法裏面的招標方式有很多種包括限制性招標所以每個機關採取他要的招標方式這個我們尊重機關的意見而且都合法所以說您對於具體的改善有沒有提出什麼具體的改善方向呢\n\n02:32.588 --> 02:37.452\n那我想請問一下主委您今年公共工程委員會的媒體宣傳費用去年是多少?那今年呢?\n\n03:00.251 --> 03:06.035\n也是220萬那請問去說那請問得票廠商是哪裡我可能請相關來說明吧\n\n03:12.143 --> 03:32.177\n報告委員去年是泰宜廣告公司那主要是在辦金職獎那今年是一位比較新創的一個媒體公司那我們就是拍這個金職獎的宣傳還有兩性平權的這些宣傳影片有KPI嗎\n\n03:33.188 --> 03:55.106\n你們內部一定有KPI的因為我曾經在港務公司待過我知道內部有KPI是跟委員報告這個部分我們就是有訂那個收視就是點閱率這些點閱率220萬那請問點閱率的影片大概多少點閱率的影片我們我們是一個\n\n03:57.452 --> 04:19.369\n抱歉我們手上的資料是總計的是曝光數是1300萬次點閱率是18萬次幾支影片我們總共有一部5分鐘的然後還有濃縮版的影片30秒的所以幾支應該是5支左右4支全部加起來多少18000次18萬次\n\n04:23.464 --> 04:23.884\n分享次數幾次點擊\n\n04:37.044 --> 04:54.321\n點擊有九萬兩千兩百九十六次我們有一個曝光一個是曝光那另外一個是粉絲我知道我知道我自己我自己都在關於自己粉絲專頁這個是金職講金職講的內容那麼包括一些相關工程達人的一些影片比較屬於單純是\n\n04:56.383 --> 04:58.364\n工程會的政策\n\n05:28.245 --> 05:45.063\n還有另外一個問題我還是回到合約因為合約一個限制性招標一個是限制性招標跟我們看到的所謂的選擇性招標之外我也想請問一下OT跟ROT不同在哪裡?\n\n05:46.732 --> 06:11.634\nROT是等於是重建重建然後這個操作然後再轉移嘛那OT是操作轉移嘛那這個我提報告委員這個業務已經是財政部的業務了那我只是問清楚合約上面以前是工程會的業務現在出差的部分是財政部的業務我知道可是您還是可以解說是OT換ROT需不需要重新招標\n\n06:14.062 --> 06:38.124\n我想我請負責合約組密來回答我只想知道是不是需要重新招標公務員報告就是招標的時候基本上就有權利義務關係所以這個OT或ROT在招標的時候會說明清楚所以說如果是一個OT案直接換成ROT說有OT的精神這樣子合法嗎\n\n06:39.223 --> 06:57.962\n報告委員這一位涉及到個案的7月變更的內容和他的容許性所以這個可能要個案來看所以說這樣子來講的話如果一個案子假設說我今天有個優良廠商我跟你圈的是OT合約然後慢慢就直接找另外一個協力廠商然後變成ROT這樣在法律上是允許的囉\n\n06:59.315 --> 07:23.831\n我想再跟委員報告促參的部分主管機關是財政部所以不管OTROTBOT全部是財政部如果說財政部說它是違法的呢這個是財政部做解釋那工程會呢針對是政府採購如果說它有違反政府採購我們工程會會去了解我只是有一個問題想說他不方便去幫財政部去做相關的這個促參法的相關的解釋\n\n07:24.671 --> 07:30.142\n我為什麼把這件事特意邀他出來談的原因是說因為不管是您現在的講法跟\n\n07:31.534 --> 07:54.498\n當初吳哲成吳前主委的講法都是經過講起來我個程度上你說是個案個案不過如果以通案來講是不是應該要經過一個重新招標的簡訊呢我可能要檢視一下他的原始合約啦原始合約如果有雙方合意說OT期限到了之後能夠繼續做重建的話我想還是根據合約如果OT還沒到就直接做ROT呢我們還是看原來合約來看\n\n07:54.898 --> 07:55.058\n東岸廣場案\n\n08:17.523 --> 08:18.084\n資訊委員會主委今天負責人在場嗎?\n\n08:40.115 --> 08:55.420\n針對東岸基隆市東岸廣場的案子,OT直接抓AUT,請問這樣是合法的嗎?而且在OT的合約還沒到之前,請問這樣是合法的嗎?先跟委員報告,就是說原則上因為我們是處理政府採購的契約\n\n08:57.060 --> 09:01.042\n所以這樣講起來說公共工程委員會對這個案子完全無法負責完全無法介入就對了\n\n09:20.633 --> 09:32.715\n如果說是請我們從政府採購企業的角度來提供一些意見那我想我們是可以提供這樣的一個所以我問OT如果要換ROT是不是要經過重新招標\n\n09:34.451 --> 10:00.005\n通案來講OT如果說他在OT如果說在期限他要變成ROT的話是不是需要公開是不是需要重新招標因為他不是走政府採購所以他沒有所謂公開不公開招標的問題因為他看起來有可能是走促餐那促餐因為他根本就沒有走政府採購的程序那OT的話ROT如果說就是不需要重新再招標就可以直接這樣做囉您現在這句話我隨時會議上面都有記錄喔\n\n10:03.447 --> 10:03.967\n好謝謝主委謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.058,"end":35.045,"text":"好謝謝主席有請陳主委請陳主委好委員長主委長您是公共工程委員會的主委所以有關合約有關所有公共工程的合約由您來做解釋應該是最好的人選那我那個有一句話叫做政府的採購法的精神是維護公共利益以及公平合理請問您是否認同"},{"start":36.476,"end":39.297,"text":"立法院預算中心針對政府媒體宣傳費報告指出各機關媒宣費連續3年的得標廠商"},{"start":55.022,"end":66.655,"text":"採限制性招標居多而且得標廠商集中度甚高以至於政府的政策及宣傳業務未能擴及社會大眾必須檢討試妥性"},{"start":68.291,"end":96.965,"text":"那我們也都知道說採用限制性招標跟選擇性招標大多數的廠商連進場的資格都無法取得更不用說比較所以說限制性招標也好選擇性招標也好雖然比較方便但對機關是不需要經過冗長的公開上網及標期的規定所以直接聯絡廠商請適合的廠商適合這個是主觀的適合的廠商來進行報價然後但是其實對於其他可以想要競標的廠商這是很不公平的方式"},{"start":97.785,"end":109.878,"text":"而且最直接的如果機關的公務員若有圖利特定廠商的情形更不容易藉不公開的漏洞只找同一批的廠商來採購形成堅強的共犯結構"},{"start":116.204,"end":132.753,"text":"雖然說我們政府採購法22條明令的可以不用公開招標的方式來去例外而機關可以選擇適當的廠商進行議價依法永續但是請問請問一下主委您認為這樣符合政府採購法的精神嗎"},{"start":135.119,"end":151.984,"text":"政府採購法裏面的招標方式有很多種包括限制性招標所以每個機關採取他要的招標方式這個我們尊重機關的意見而且都合法所以說您對於具體的改善有沒有提出什麼具體的改善方向呢"},{"start":152.588,"end":157.452,"text":"那我想請問一下主委您今年公共工程委員會的媒體宣傳費用去年是多少?那今年呢?"},{"start":180.251,"end":186.035,"text":"也是220萬那請問去說那請問得票廠商是哪裡我可能請相關來說明吧"},{"start":192.143,"end":212.177,"text":"報告委員去年是泰宜廣告公司那主要是在辦金職獎那今年是一位比較新創的一個媒體公司那我們就是拍這個金職獎的宣傳還有兩性平權的這些宣傳影片有KPI嗎"},{"start":213.188,"end":235.106,"text":"你們內部一定有KPI的因為我曾經在港務公司待過我知道內部有KPI是跟委員報告這個部分我們就是有訂那個收視就是點閱率這些點閱率220萬那請問點閱率的影片大概多少點閱率的影片我們我們是一個"},{"start":237.452,"end":259.369,"text":"抱歉我們手上的資料是總計的是曝光數是1300萬次點閱率是18萬次幾支影片我們總共有一部5分鐘的然後還有濃縮版的影片30秒的所以幾支應該是5支左右4支全部加起來多少18000次18萬次"},{"start":263.464,"end":263.884,"text":"分享次數幾次點擊"},{"start":277.044,"end":294.321,"text":"點擊有九萬兩千兩百九十六次我們有一個曝光一個是曝光那另外一個是粉絲我知道我知道我自己我自己都在關於自己粉絲專頁這個是金職講金職講的內容那麼包括一些相關工程達人的一些影片比較屬於單純是"},{"start":296.383,"end":298.364,"text":"工程會的政策"},{"start":328.245,"end":345.063,"text":"還有另外一個問題我還是回到合約因為合約一個限制性招標一個是限制性招標跟我們看到的所謂的選擇性招標之外我也想請問一下OT跟ROT不同在哪裡?"},{"start":346.732,"end":371.634,"text":"ROT是等於是重建重建然後這個操作然後再轉移嘛那OT是操作轉移嘛那這個我提報告委員這個業務已經是財政部的業務了那我只是問清楚合約上面以前是工程會的業務現在出差的部分是財政部的業務我知道可是您還是可以解說是OT換ROT需不需要重新招標"},{"start":374.062,"end":398.124,"text":"我想我請負責合約組密來回答我只想知道是不是需要重新招標公務員報告就是招標的時候基本上就有權利義務關係所以這個OT或ROT在招標的時候會說明清楚所以說如果是一個OT案直接換成ROT說有OT的精神這樣子合法嗎"},{"start":399.223,"end":417.962,"text":"報告委員這一位涉及到個案的7月變更的內容和他的容許性所以這個可能要個案來看所以說這樣子來講的話如果一個案子假設說我今天有個優良廠商我跟你圈的是OT合約然後慢慢就直接找另外一個協力廠商然後變成ROT這樣在法律上是允許的囉"},{"start":419.315,"end":443.831,"text":"我想再跟委員報告 促參的部分主管機關是財政部所以不管OT ROT BOT全部是財政部如果說財政部說它是違法的呢這個是財政部做解釋那工程會呢針對是政府採購 如果說它有違反政府採購我們工程會會去了解我只是有一個問題想說他不方便去幫財政部去做相關的這個促參法的相關的解釋"},{"start":444.671,"end":450.142,"text":"我為什麼把這件事特意邀他出來談的原因是說因為不管是您現在的講法跟"},{"start":451.534,"end":474.498,"text":"當初吳哲成吳前主委的講法都是經過講起來我個程度上你說是個案個案不過如果以通案來講是不是應該要經過一個重新招標的簡訊呢我可能要檢視一下他的原始合約啦原始合約如果有雙方合意說OT期限到了之後能夠繼續做重建的話我想還是根據合約如果OT還沒到就直接做ROT呢我們還是看原來合約來看"},{"start":474.898,"end":475.058,"text":"東岸廣場案"},{"start":497.523,"end":498.084,"text":"資訊委員會主委今天負責人在場嗎?"},{"start":520.115,"end":535.42,"text":"針對東岸基隆市東岸廣場的案子,OT直接抓AUT,請問這樣是合法的嗎?而且在OT的合約還沒到之前,請問這樣是合法的嗎?先跟委員報告,就是說原則上因為我們是處理政府採購的契約"},{"start":537.06,"end":541.042,"text":"所以這樣講起來說公共工程委員會對這個案子完全無法負責完全無法介入就對了"},{"start":560.633,"end":572.715,"text":"如果說是請我們從政府採購企業的角度來提供一些意見那我想我們是可以提供這樣的一個所以我問OT如果要換ROT是不是要經過重新招標"},{"start":574.451,"end":600.005,"text":"通案來講OT如果說他在OT如果說在期限他要變成ROT的話是不是需要公開是不是需要重新招標因為他不是走政府採購所以他沒有所謂公開不公開招標的問題因為他看起來有可能是走促餐那促餐因為他根本就沒有走政府採購的程序那OT的話ROT如果說就是不需要重新再招標就可以直接這樣做囉您現在這句話我隨時會議上面都有記錄喔"},{"start":603.447,"end":603.967,"text":"好 謝謝主委 謝謝主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:41:59 - 09:52:29","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154947,"gazette":{"lineno":164,"blocks":[["林委員沛祥：（9時42分）好，謝謝主席。有請陳主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早！"],["林委員沛祥：主委早！您是公共工程委員會的主委，所以有關公共工程的所有合約由您來解釋，應該是最好的人選，有一句話說：政府採購法的精神是維護公共利益以及公平合理。請問您是否認同？"],["陳主任委員金德：我想這個是政府採購法開宗明義的主旨。"],["林委員沛祥：好，謝謝主委。從我們調的資料來看，立法院預算中心針對政府媒體宣傳費的報告指出，各機關媒宣費連續三年得標廠商採限制性招標居多，而且得標廠商集中度甚高，以至於政府的政策及宣傳業務未能擴及社會大眾，必須檢討適妥性。我們都知道，採用限制性招標跟選擇性招標，會讓大多數的廠商連進場的資格都無法取得，更不用說比較了，所以限制性招標也好，選擇性招標也好，雖然比較方便，讓機關可以不需要經過冗長的公開上網及標期規定，可以直接聯絡適合的廠商來進行報價，但「適合」是主觀的，這其實對其他想要競標的廠商而言是很不公平的方式，而且更直接的是，如果機關的公務員有圖利特定廠商的情形，更容易借不公開的漏洞，只找同一批廠商來採購，形成堅強的共犯結構，雖然政府採購法第二十二條明令可以有不用公開招標方式的例外，讓機關可以選擇適當的廠商進行議價，這是依法有據，但請問主委，您認為這樣符合政府採購法的精神嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：政府採購法裡面的招標方式有很多種，包括限制性招標，所以每個機關採取他們要的招標方式，我們都尊重機關的意見，而且這都是合法的。"],["林委員沛祥：所以您有沒有提出什麼具體的改善方向？"],["陳主任委員金德：如果有個案問題，比方有違失，我們才會去了解，如果只是單純的招標方式採限制性招標，我想這個在機關裡面主管決定就可以了。"],["林委員沛祥：請問主委，公共工程委員會的媒體宣傳費用，去年是多少？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們很少啦！220萬。"],["林委員沛祥：今年呢？"],["陳主任委員金德：也是220萬。"],["林委員沛祥：請問得標廠商是哪裡呢？"],["陳主任委員金德：這我可能要請相關單位來說明，請主秘說明。"],["羅主任秘書天健：報告委員，去年是太乙廣告公司，主要是在辦理金質獎，今年是一家比較新創的媒體公司，我們就是拍金質獎的宣傳影片，還有兩性平權的宣傳影片。"],["林委員沛祥：有KPI嗎？你們內部一定有KPI，因為我曾經在港務公司待過，我知道內部有KPI。"],["羅主任秘書天健：是，跟委員報告，這個部分我們訂有點閱率這些……"],["林委員沛祥：點閱率？220萬，請問影片的點閱率大概多少？"],["羅主任秘書天健：影片的點閱率，抱歉，我們手上的資料是總計的，曝光數是1,300萬次，點閱率是18萬次。"],["林委員沛祥：幾支影片？"],["羅主任秘書天健：我們總共有一部5分鐘的影片，然後還有濃縮版的30秒的影片……"],["林委員沛祥：所以幾支？"],["羅主任秘書天健：應該是4支。"],["林委員沛祥：4支全部加起來多少？1萬8,000次？"],["羅主任秘書天健：是18萬次。"],["林委員沛祥：18萬次，這就是KPI？分享次數幾次？"],["黃處長順昌：向委員報告，點擊有9萬2,296次，我們有一個曝光，一個是曝光，另外一個是點擊……"],["林委員沛祥：我知道，我知道，我自己都在關心自己的粉絲專頁，所以我知道。"],["陳主任委員金德：這個是金質獎的內容，包括一些相關工程達人的影片，比較單純屬於工程會的政策，是工程會的業務範圍內的一些影片……"],["林委員沛祥：好，謝謝主委，至少你們這次的媒體宣傳業務費沒有增加，未來我們會針對點閱次數繼續來觀察，基本上，18萬次其實沒有很多，如果說本席隨隨便便拍一支短影片都可以到54萬次的話，那18萬次其實是很少的，我期待這個可以再加強。"],["陳主任委員金德：報告委員，我們來改進，不過這是相當工程方面的影片。"],["林委員沛祥：還有另外一個問題，我還是回到合約部分，除了限制性招標和所謂的選擇性招標之外，我想請問一下，OT跟ROT不同在哪裡？"],["陳主任委員金德：ROT等於是重建，然後操作，然後再轉移，而OT是操作、轉移……"],["林委員沛祥：那OT……"],["陳主任委員金德：不過跟委員報告，這個業務已經是財政部的業務了。"],["林委員沛祥：好，我只是問清楚合約上……"],["陳主任委員金德：這以前是工程會業務，現在促參的部分是財政部的業務。"],["林委員沛祥：我知道，可是您還是可以解說，OT換ROT需不需要重新招標？"],["陳主任委員金德：我請負責合約的主秘來……"],["林委員沛祥：不是，我只是想知道是不是需要重新招標？"],["羅主任秘書天健：跟委員報告，在招標的時候，基本上會有權利義務關係，所以OT或ROT在招標的時候會說明清楚。"],["林委員沛祥：所以如果一個OT案直接換成ROT，但說有OT精神，這樣合法嗎？"],["羅主任秘書天健：報告委員，因為這涉及到個案契約變更的內容和容許性，所以可能要個案來看。"],["林委員沛祥：這樣講的話，假設今天有一個案子是一個優良廠商來跟你簽OT合約，然後貿貿然直接找另外一個協力廠商變成ROT，這樣在法律上是允許的囉？"],["陳主任委員金德：再跟委員報告，促參的部分主管機關是財政部，所以不管OT、ROT、BOT，全部是由財政部主管機關來解釋……"],["林委員沛祥：如果財政部說它是違法的呢？"],["陳主任委員金德：這個由財政部解釋，工程會針對的是政府採購，如果他有違反政府採購，工程會會去了解。"],["林委員沛祥：我只是要問清楚……"],["陳主任委員金德：我們不方便幫財政部去做促參法相關的解釋。"],["林委員沛祥：我為什麼把這件事特地拿出來談的原因，是因為不管是您現在的講法，還是當初吳澤成吳前主委的講法，講起來都說某個程度上是個案、個案，不過如果以通案來講，是不是應該要經過一個重新招標的程序？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們可能要檢視一下他的原始合約，原始合約如果有雙方合意說OT期限到了之後，能夠繼續做重建的話，我想還是要根據合約來看。"],["林委員沛祥：如果OT還沒到就直接做ROT呢？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們還是以原來合約來看。"],["林委員沛祥：如果原來合約上面沒有寫這一塊呢？"],["陳主任委員金德：看甲方跟乙方合約裡面是怎麼訂定的，我們現在沒有看到合約內容，無從判斷。"],["林委員沛祥：所以如果合約內容出來，裡面並沒有任何地方說有第三方可以介入的話，基本上……"],["陳主任委員金德：如果委員有具體的合約……"],["林委員沛祥：我有具體的合約。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們可以幫你看一下。"],["林委員沛祥：好，就某個程度上面來講，您說東岸廣場的案子，基本上來講，如果甲、乙雙方當初合約沒有寫，而有一個第三方廠商直接介入的話……"],["陳主任委員金德：我們有一個諮詢委員會會針對合約的履約情形做諮詢，我想我們可以做到這一點。"],["林委員沛祥：諮詢委員會的負責人今天在場嗎？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：委員你好。"],["林委員沛祥：針對基隆市東岸廣場的案子OT直接轉ROT，請問這樣是合法的嗎？而且在OT的合約還沒到之前，請問這樣是合法的嗎？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：先跟委員報告，原則上我們是處理政府採購的契約，因為這個案子它不是走政府採購法，所以原則上它不會直接對應到政府採購契約。如果以政府採購契約的原則來看的話，就誠如剛剛主委所講的，可能要看合約裡面……"],["林委員沛祥：所以這樣講起來公共工程委員會對這個案子完全無法負責、完全無法介入就對了？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：如果是請我們從政府採購契約的角度來提供一些意見，我想我們是可以提供這樣的意見。"],["林委員沛祥：所以我問OT如果要換成ROT，是不是要經過重新招標？通案來講，如果OT在期限內要變成ROT的話，是不是需要重新招標？我只是要你回答Yes or No。"],["陳副主任委員為祥：因為它不是走政府採購，所以它沒有所謂公開、不公開招標的問題，它看起來有可能是走促參，那促參的話，它根本就沒有走政府採購的程序。"],["林委員沛祥：OT換ROT不需要重新再招標就可以直接這樣做了？你現在這句話在會議上面都有紀錄，OT不用經過任何程序就可以直接換成ROT是嗎？"],["陳副主任委員為祥：因為我們的政府採購契約裡面目前沒有這個類別，所以我不敢跟委員講到底可以或不可以，因為我們目前政府採購契約裡面並沒有處理這方面的問題。"],["林委員沛祥：好，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["主席（許委員智傑代）：謝謝，我們現在請陳素月召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","speakers":["陳素月","林俊憲","許智傑","黃健豪","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","廖先翔","魯明哲","邱若華","蔡其昌","林國成","游顥","徐富癸","黃國昌","洪孟楷","王美惠","廖偉翔","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","王鴻薇","陳俊宇","李柏毅","羅智強","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00013"}}}