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337.811, \"end\": 338.711, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 338.711, \"end\": 338.831, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 338.831, \"end\": 339.031, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 339.031, \"end\": 339.131, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"球\", \"start\": 339.131, \"end\": 339.311, \"score\": 0.508}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 339.311, \"end\": 339.711, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 339.711, \"end\": 340.172, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 340.172, \"end\": 340.432, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 340.432, \"end\": 340.732, \"score\": 0.614}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 340.732, \"end\": 340.972, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 340.972, \"end\": 341.192, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 341.192, \"end\": 341.352, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 341.352, \"end\": 341.612, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 341.612, \"end\": 342.152, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 342.152, \"end\": 342.953, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 342.953, \"end\": 343.073, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 343.073, \"end\": 343.393, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 343.393, \"end\": 343.573, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 343.573, \"end\": 343.893, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 343.893, \"end\": 344.113, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 344.113, \"end\": 344.553, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 344.553, \"end\": 344.654, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 344.654, \"end\": 344.834, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 344.834, \"end\": 344.854, \"score\": 0.29}, {\"word\": \"標\"}]}, {\"start\": 346.014, \"end\": 346.595, \"text\": \"公共工程委員會公共工程檢探\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 346.014, \"end\": 346.114, \"score\": 0.446}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 346.114, \"end\": 346.134, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 346.134, \"end\": 346.215, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 346.215, \"end\": 346.295, \"score\": 0.276}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 346.295, \"end\": 346.415, \"score\": 0.677}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 346.415, \"end\": 346.435, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 346.435, \"end\": 346.495, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 346.495, \"end\": 346.515, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 346.515, \"end\": 346.575, \"score\": 0.059}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"探\", \"start\": 346.575, \"end\": 346.595, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 363.215, \"end\": 390.496, \"text\": \"在2022年8月31號發布了公共工程節能減碳減核注意事項那剛剛在你的業務報告裡面你有提到就是說未來的這個最有利標也會把這個就是減碳的這個部分的這個計算也納入評選的一個條件那我覺得說如果說要納入一個評選的條件就是要讓不管是業務單位或者是投票廠商都要有一個依循的一個準則對不對\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 363.215, \"end\": 364.076, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 364.076, \"end\": 364.977, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 364.977, \"end\": 365.797, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 365.797, \"end\": 365.897, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 365.897, \"end\": 366.017, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 366.017, \"end\": 366.177, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 366.177, \"end\": 366.358, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 366.358, \"end\": 366.538, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 366.538, \"end\": 366.938, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"節\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 366.938, \"end\": 367.338, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 367.338, \"end\": 367.739, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 367.739, \"end\": 367.919, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 367.919, \"end\": 368.099, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 368.099, \"end\": 368.259, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 368.259, \"end\": 369.34, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 369.34, \"end\": 369.72, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 369.72, \"end\": 369.88, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 369.88, \"end\": 369.98, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 369.98, \"end\": 370.421, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 370.421, \"end\": 370.661, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 370.661, \"end\": 370.801, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 370.801, \"end\": 371.021, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 371.021, \"end\": 371.201, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 371.201, \"end\": 371.401, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 371.401, \"end\": 372.042, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 372.042, \"end\": 372.162, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 372.162, \"end\": 372.682, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 372.682, \"end\": 373.063, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 373.063, \"end\": 373.483, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 373.483, \"end\": 373.643, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 373.643, \"end\": 373.803, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 373.803, \"end\": 374.304, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 374.304, \"end\": 374.644, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 374.644, \"end\": 375.885, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 375.885, \"end\": 376.005, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 376.005, \"end\": 376.385, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 376.385, \"end\": 376.565, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 376.565, \"end\": 377.026, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 377.026, \"end\": 377.266, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 377.266, \"end\": 378.207, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 378.207, \"end\": 378.367, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 378.367, \"end\": 378.547, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 378.547, \"end\": 378.927, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 378.927, \"end\": 379.808, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 379.808, \"end\": 379.888, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 379.888, \"end\": 380.448, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 380.448, \"end\": 381.289, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 381.289, \"end\": 381.689, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 381.689, \"end\": 381.889, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 381.889, \"end\": 382.27, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 382.27, \"end\": 382.37, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 382.37, \"end\": 382.59, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 382.59, \"end\": 382.87, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 382.87, \"end\": 383.01, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 383.01, \"end\": 383.411, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 383.411, \"end\": 383.671, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 383.671, \"end\": 383.811, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 383.811, \"end\": 383.931, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 383.931, \"end\": 384.031, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 384.031, \"end\": 385.352, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 385.352, \"end\": 385.492, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 385.492, \"end\": 385.672, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 385.672, \"end\": 386.373, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 386.373, \"end\": 386.553, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 386.553, \"end\": 386.713, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 386.713, \"end\": 386.913, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 386.913, \"end\": 387.213, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 387.213, \"end\": 387.374, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 387.374, \"end\": 387.794, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 387.794, \"end\": 388.014, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 388.014, \"end\": 388.134, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 388.134, \"end\": 388.294, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 388.294, \"end\": 388.434, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 388.434, \"end\": 388.595, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 388.595, \"end\": 388.875, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"循\", \"start\": 388.875, \"end\": 389.195, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 389.195, \"end\": 389.835, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 389.835, \"end\": 390.336, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 390.336, \"end\": 390.476, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 390.476, \"end\": 390.496, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}]}, {\"start\": 393.653, \"end\": 416.484, \"text\": \"我們看到就是說工程會的節能減碳目標就是說希望從減碳設計還有材料及工法等三大面向著手那藉由政府採購機制促使採購機關承攬廠商落實推動節能減碳然後逐步引導供應鏈邁向淨零排放那我想在這個過程我們工程會也訂立了三個階段的一個目標\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 393.653, \"end\": 393.873, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 393.873, \"end\": 394.034, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 394.034, \"end\": 394.214, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 394.214, \"end\": 394.374, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 394.374, \"end\": 394.554, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 394.554, \"end\": 394.694, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 394.694, \"end\": 394.934, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 394.934, \"end\": 395.294, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"節\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 395.294, \"end\": 395.574, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 395.574, \"end\": 395.754, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 395.754, \"end\": 396.195, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 396.195, \"end\": 396.315, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 396.315, \"end\": 396.735, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 396.735, \"end\": 396.815, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 396.815, \"end\": 397.435, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 397.435, \"end\": 398.736, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 398.736, \"end\": 398.956, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"材\", \"start\": 398.956, \"end\": 399.116, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 399.116, \"end\": 399.296, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 399.296, \"end\": 399.456, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 399.456, \"end\": 399.656, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 399.656, \"end\": 399.816, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 399.816, \"end\": 400.016, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 400.016, \"end\": 400.196, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 400.196, \"end\": 400.356, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 400.356, \"end\": 400.577, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 400.577, \"end\": 400.857, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 400.857, \"end\": 401.117, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 401.117, \"end\": 401.697, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 401.697, \"end\": 402.057, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"藉\", \"start\": 402.057, \"end\": 402.257, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 402.257, \"end\": 402.637, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 402.637, \"end\": 402.838, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 402.838, \"end\": 403.578, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 403.578, \"end\": 403.798, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"促\", \"start\": 403.798, \"end\": 404.018, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 404.018, \"end\": 405.159, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"承\", \"start\": 405.159, \"end\": 405.779, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"攬\"}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 405.779, \"end\": 406.019, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 406.019, \"end\": 406.779, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 406.779, \"end\": 407.3, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"節\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 407.3, \"end\": 407.82, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 407.82, \"end\": 408.18, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 408.18, \"end\": 408.34, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 408.34, \"end\": 408.58, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 408.58, \"end\": 408.76, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 408.76, \"end\": 408.96, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 408.96, \"end\": 409.681, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 409.681, \"end\": 410.381, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"鏈\"}, {\"word\": \"邁\"}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 410.381, \"end\": 410.961, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"淨\"}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 410.961, \"end\": 411.201, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 411.201, \"end\": 411.441, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 411.441, \"end\": 411.902, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 411.902, \"end\": 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\"指引是OK啦那我們比較前端的那個碳排係數的建立需要收集很多資料就其他辦理招標的機關裡面現有的資料去收集或者是現有的廠商他的這個建築材料的一些碳排係數我們收集完了這個才能夠比較長遠的來進行碳排\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 517.557, \"end\": 517.757, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 517.757, \"end\": 518.078, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 518.078, \"end\": 518.238, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 518.238, \"end\": 518.458, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 518.458, \"end\": 518.658, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 518.658, \"end\": 519.038, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 519.038, \"end\": 519.238, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 519.238, \"end\": 519.758, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 519.758, \"end\": 520.058, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 520.058, \"end\": 520.278, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"端\", \"start\": 520.278, \"end\": 520.478, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 554.3, \"end\": 554.46, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 554.46, \"end\": 554.52, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 554.52, \"end\": 554.72, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 554.72, \"end\": 555.221, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 555.221, \"end\": 555.441, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 555.441, \"end\": 555.722, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 555.722, \"end\": 556.322, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 556.322, \"end\": 556.422, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 556.422, \"end\": 556.502, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 556.502, \"end\": 556.602, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 556.602, \"end\": 556.723, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 556.723, \"end\": 556.983, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": 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\"是因為我們這些資料若沒有完成的話就是不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商他們都沒有一個依循的一個準則嘛是不是所以我們也希望這個工程會應該盡速完成就是減碳作業的參考指引跟減能減碳的減核機制嘛這樣才能夠掌握這個成效然後應該在這個過程當中你們要積極的去檢討相關的一個策略吧應該做一個滾動式的一個檢討好的好謝謝主委\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 561.559, \"end\": 561.719, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 561.719, \"end\": 561.899, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 561.899, \"end\": 562.299, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 562.299, \"end\": 562.96, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 562.96, \"end\": 563.18, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 563.18, \"end\": 563.34, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 563.34, \"end\": 563.44, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 563.44, \"end\": 563.5, \"score\": 0.571}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 563.5, \"end\": 563.74, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 563.74, \"end\": 563.92, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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00:01:31,161\n謝謝委員因為醫院的鐵路高加泰申請審議的將近10年那這10年當中事實上他的鐵路立體化的相關經費分攤的審查要點有修正過\n\n6\n00:01:32,623 --> 00:01:50,434\n那我們後來去檢視啊因為每個地方的鐵路高架地方政府的分攤的確都很沉重那尤其是非六都的部分財務狀況都不是那麼好所以呢這個分攤是按照財務狀況分財務等級來分配比方說有7525有8614等等這個財務狀況的等級應該在之前的這個\n\n7\n00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:16,791\n總經費的分配就是中央和地方的負擔應該就已經有納入計算了嗎這次我們檢視就其中的用地取得鐵路高架因為他要現場的那個路線是高架所以在高架的同時旁邊要徵收土地做臨時軌就是要涉及土地徵收那這個土地徵收將來是屬於\n\n8\n00:02:19,072 --> 00:02:30,778\n國營的臺灣鐵路公司的所以才認為說既然將來的土地全屬是屬於中央的所以這個土地取得我們建立由中央來負擔另外第二個就是說調度廠就是機場\n\n9\n00:02:34,139 --> 00:02:34,779\n您這樣的想法有共識了嗎?\n\n10\n00:02:57,388 --> 00:03:09,817\n這個我們當中這兩三個月都有密集召開過會議那麼也檢視過這個審查要點那行政院也經過一步長時間的討論基本上這個原則針對財務狀況比較不好的縣市來做這樣的一個主張也是算合理的\n\n11\n00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:35,627\n好那就是如果說宜蘭鐵路高架就是可以從這個地方負擔可以從105.72億下修為53.87億那彰化的鐵路高架是不是也可以下修這個地方的負擔款\n\n12\n00:03:36,087 --> 00:04:01,506\n我會跟部長交通部長來討論所以我剛才講的那兩個項目一個是用地取得一個是管理機場有新設機場的話那個調度的那部分不要納入分攤那用地取得完全中央來負擔因為那是中央的財產就是鐵路公司的財產所以這部分會比較明確所以很難從數字來看我要看裡面的配置到底263.3億的\n\n13\n00:04:07,285 --> 00:04:17,979\n102.7億有多少是用地取得有多少是去分攤到剛才講的那個調度廠的費用若是這兩部分的話我會來跟交通部來協調\n\n14\n00:04:19,528 --> 00:04:46,394\n是因為在彰化鐵路高架也是地方引頸期盼20多年超過20年以上的一個重大建設因為在這個推動的過程曾經在就是自償率的這個計算的時候就焦灼了一段時間所以我們也希望就是說在這樣子的一個負擔中央跟地方的一個負擔的比例我們希望就是全國一致的因為我們不希望說主委好像是宜蘭人\n\n15\n00:04:52,577 --> 00:05:07,668\n有這樣的這個建議,一定是有根據一些過去的案例,或者是說現在的狀況,過去也有案例用力取得有專政府負擔的,也有縣市有這樣的案例\n\n16\n00:05:10,633 --> 00:05:28,386\n請主委努力,因為您也是政委,交通部也是您在督導的業務,是這樣子嗎?是接下來本席來關心一下有關近年轉型的政策,因為剛剛從主委的業務報告裡面也有講到\n\n17\n00:05:29,347 --> 00:05:44,854\n這個近年轉型也是我們工程會五大的施政目標之一那我們來回顧一下就是說在2021年這個世界地球日4月22日的時候我們就宣布在2050年要近年排放這樣子一個目標\n\n18\n00:05:46,014 --> 00:05:46,595\n公共工程委員會公共工程檢探\n\n19\n00:06:03,215 --> 00:06:30,496\n在2022年8月31號發布了公共工程節能減碳減核注意事項那剛剛在你的業務報告裡面你有提到就是說未來的這個最有利標也會把這個就是減碳的這個部分的這個計算也納入評選的一個條件那我覺得說如果說要納入一個評選的條件就是要讓不管是業務單位或者是投票廠商都要有一個依循的一個準則對不對\n\n20\n00:06:33,653 --> 00:06:56,484\n我們看到就是說工程會的節能減碳目標就是說希望從減碳設計還有材料及工法等三大面向著手那藉由政府採購機制促使採購機關承攬廠商落實推動節能減碳然後逐步引導供應鏈邁向淨零排放那我想在這個過程我們工程會也訂立了三個階段的一個目標\n\n21\n00:06:57,324 --> 00:07:24,098\n那其實其中有兩個很重要的部分就是有關公共工程的減碳指引還有碳排資料庫數據的一個建立那有關這兩項目前就是我們知道工程會就是考量各類工程的特性不同有將公共工程分為八大類就是建築、下水道、水利、能源、橋樑、道路、隧道及軌道類\n\n22\n00:07:24,978 --> 00:07:39,924\n那就是要請這個相關的工程主管機關依工程的類型特性訂定這個公共工程檢探的指引那就主委你了解目前這八大類的相關主管機關的進度如何\n\n23\n00:07:43,154 --> 00:08:10,916\n我們這個指引的部分陸續在協調各部會來討論目前是水利的部分水利跟水保有完成其他還在討論當中預計是明年114年來完成這個指引這是一個做法之一另外比較重要的是那個碳排係數的資料庫的建立有那個每單項產品的碳排係數才能夠去計算碳排總量\n\n24\n00:08:11,676 --> 00:08:16,340\n主委指提到水利喔那這樣子是進度是不是或不差距太大了那你又說104年要要完成嗎完成這個碳排質疑我想這個會命緊有可能嗎現在已經113年\n\n25\n00:08:37,557 --> 00:09:00,025\n指引是OK啦那我們比較前端的那個碳排係數的建立需要收集很多資料就其他辦理招標的機關裡面現有的資料去收集或者是現有的廠商他的這個建築材料的一些碳排係數我們收集完了這個才能夠比較長遠的來進行碳排\n\n26\n00:09:00,666 --> 00:09:20,627\n是那個碳排資料庫的一個規劃建制也是預計在114年年底完成嗎我這個請企劃處來我目前是1100筆啦所以那個要陸續再收集那我們希望能夠也是114年能夠能夠收集更廣泛的資料\n\n27\n00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:47,330\n是因為我們這些資料若沒有完成的話就是不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商他們都沒有一個依循的一個準則嘛是不是所以我們也希望這個工程會應該盡速完成就是減碳作業的參考指引跟減能減碳的減核機制嘛這樣才能夠掌握這個成效然後應該在這個過程當中你們要積極的去檢討相關的一個策略吧應該做一個滾動式的一個檢討好的好謝謝主委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3823\t6428\t謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳金德主委請主委委員長\n14052\t30824\t主委早安本席想先請教一下就是我們有注意到主委在26號的臨書就是發布了一個消息說這個宜蘭鐵路高架地方的配合款可望從105.72億下修為53.87億\n37689\t37829\t陳素月議員\n60916\t74363\t曾經焦灼了一大段的時間那我想請問一下就是說陳素月基於什麼樣的條件跟理由可以宣布說依然鐵路高價地方配合款可望下修為53.87億\n76785\t91161\t謝謝委員因為醫院的鐵路高加泰申請審議的將近10年那這10年當中事實上他的鐵路立體化的相關經費分攤的審查要點有修正過\n92623\t110434\t那我們後來去檢視啊因為每個地方的鐵路高架地方政府的分攤的確都很沉重那尤其是非六都的部分財務狀況都不是那麼好所以呢這個分攤是按照財務狀況分財務等級來分配比方說有75 25有86 14等等這個財務狀況的等級應該在之前的這個\n119119\t136791\t總經費的分配就是中央和地方的負擔應該就已經有納入計算了嗎這次我們檢視就其中的用地取得鐵路高架因為他要現場的那個路線是高架所以在高架的同時旁邊要徵收土地做臨時軌就是要涉及土地徵收那這個土地徵收將來是屬於\n139072\t150778\t國營的臺灣鐵路公司的所以才認為說既然將來的土地全屬是屬於中央的所以這個土地取得我們建立由中央來負擔另外第二個就是說調度廠就是機場\n154139\t154779\t您這樣的想法有共識了嗎?\n177388\t189817\t這個我們當中這兩三個月都有密集召開過會議那麼也檢視過這個審查要點那行政院也經過一步長時間的討論基本上這個原則針對財務狀況比較不好的縣市來做這樣的一個主張也是算合理的\n199770\t215627\t好那就是如果說宜蘭鐵路高架就是可以從這個地方負擔可以從105.72億下修為53.87億那彰化的鐵路高架是不是也可以下修這個地方的負擔款\n216087\t241506\t我會跟部長交通部長來討論所以我剛才講的那兩個項目一個是用地取得一個是管理機場有新設機場的話那個調度的那部分不要納入分攤那用地取得完全中央來負擔因為那是中央的財產就是鐵路公司的財產所以這部分會比較明確所以很難從數字來看我要看裡面的配置到底263.3億的\n247285\t257979\t102.7億有多少是用地取得有多少是去分攤到剛才講的那個調度廠的費用若是這兩部分的話我會來跟交通部來協調\n259528\t286394\t是 因為在彰化鐵路高架也是地方引頸期盼20多年 超過20年以上的一個重大建設因為在這個推動的過程曾經在就是自償率的這個計算的時候就焦灼了一段時間所以我們也希望就是說在這樣子的一個負擔 中央跟地方的一個負擔的比例我們希望就是全國一致的因為我們不希望說主委好像是宜蘭人\n292577\t307668\t有這樣的這個建議,一定是有根據一些過去的案例,或者是說現在的狀況,過去也有案例用力取得有專政府負擔的,也有縣市有這樣的案例\n310633\t328386\t請主委努力,因為您也是政委,交通部也是您在督導的業務,是這樣子嗎?是接下來本席來關心一下有關近年轉型的政策,因為剛剛從主委的業務報告裡面也有講到\n329347\t344854\t這個近年轉型也是我們工程會五大的施政目標之一那我們來回顧一下就是說在2021年這個世界地球日4月22日的時候我們就宣布在2050年要近年排放這樣子一個目標\n346014\t346595\t公共工程委員會公共工程檢探\n363215\t390496\t在2022年8月31號發布了公共工程節能減碳減核注意事項那剛剛在你的業務報告裡面你有提到就是說未來的這個最有利標也會把這個就是減碳的這個部分的這個計算也納入評選的一個條件那我覺得說如果說要納入一個評選的條件就是要讓不管是業務單位或者是投票廠商都要有一個依循的一個準則對不對\n393653\t416484\t我們看到就是說工程會的節能減碳目標就是說希望從減碳設計還有材料及工法等三大面向著手那藉由政府採購機制促使採購機關承攬廠商落實推動節能減碳然後逐步引導供應鏈邁向淨零排放那我想在這個過程我們工程會也訂立了三個階段的一個目標\n417324\t444098\t那其實其中有兩個很重要的部分就是有關公共工程的減碳指引還有碳排資料庫數據的一個建立那有關這兩項目前就是我們知道工程會就是考量各類工程的特性不同有將公共工程分為八大類就是建築、下水道、水利、能源、橋樑、道路、隧道及軌道類\n444978\t459924\t那就是要請這個相關的工程主管機關依工程的類型特性訂定這個公共工程檢探的指引那就主委你了解目前這八大類的相關主管機關的進度如何\n463154\t490916\t我們這個指引的部分陸續在協調各部會來討論目前是水利的部分水利跟水保有完成其他還在討論當中預計是明年114年來完成這個指引這是一個做法之一另外比較重要的是那個碳排係數的資料庫的建立有那個每單項產品的碳排係數才能夠去計算碳排總量\n491676\t496340\t主委指提到水利喔那這樣子是進度是不是或不差距太大了那你又說104年要要完成嗎完成這個碳排質疑我想這個會命緊有可能嗎現在已經113年\n517557\t540025\t指引是OK啦那我們比較前端的那個碳排係數的建立需要收集很多資料就其他辦理招標的機關裡面現有的資料去收集或者是現有的廠商他的這個建築材料的一些碳排係數我們收集完了這個才能夠比較長遠的來進行碳排\n540666\t560627\t是 那個碳排資料庫的一個規劃建制也是預計在114年年底完成嗎我這個請企劃處來我目前是1100筆啦所以那個要陸續再收集那我們希望能夠也是114年能夠能夠收集更廣泛的資料\n561559\t587330\t是因為我們這些資料若沒有完成的話就是不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商他們都沒有一個依循的一個準則嘛是不是所以我們也希望這個工程會應該盡速完成就是減碳作業的參考指引跟減能減碳的減核機制嘛這樣才能夠掌握這個成效然後應該在這個過程當中你們要積極的去檢討相關的一個策略吧應該做一個滾動式的一個檢討好的好謝謝主委\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳金德主委請主委委員長\n主委早安本席想先請教一下就是我們有注意到主委在26號的臨書就是發布了一個消息說這個宜蘭鐵路高架地方的配合款可望從105.72億下修為53.87億\n陳素月議員\n曾經焦灼了一大段的時間那我想請問一下就是說陳素月基於什麼樣的條件跟理由可以宣布說依然鐵路高價地方配合款可望下修為53.87億\n謝謝委員因為醫院的鐵路高加泰申請審議的將近10年那這10年當中事實上他的鐵路立體化的相關經費分攤的審查要點有修正過\n那我們後來去檢視啊因為每個地方的鐵路高架地方政府的分攤的確都很沉重那尤其是非六都的部分財務狀況都不是那麼好所以呢這個分攤是按照財務狀況分財務等級來分配比方說有75 25有86 14等等這個財務狀況的等級應該在之前的這個\n總經費的分配就是中央和地方的負擔應該就已經有納入計算了嗎這次我們檢視就其中的用地取得鐵路高架因為他要現場的那個路線是高架所以在高架的同時旁邊要徵收土地做臨時軌就是要涉及土地徵收那這個土地徵收將來是屬於\n國營的臺灣鐵路公司的所以才認為說既然將來的土地全屬是屬於中央的所以這個土地取得我們建立由中央來負擔另外第二個就是說調度廠就是機場\n您這樣的想法有共識了嗎?\n這個我們當中這兩三個月都有密集召開過會議那麼也檢視過這個審查要點那行政院也經過一步長時間的討論基本上這個原則針對財務狀況比較不好的縣市來做這樣的一個主張也是算合理的\n好那就是如果說宜蘭鐵路高架就是可以從這個地方負擔可以從105.72億下修為53.87億那彰化的鐵路高架是不是也可以下修這個地方的負擔款\n我會跟部長交通部長來討論所以我剛才講的那兩個項目一個是用地取得一個是管理機場有新設機場的話那個調度的那部分不要納入分攤那用地取得完全中央來負擔因為那是中央的財產就是鐵路公司的財產所以這部分會比較明確所以很難從數字來看我要看裡面的配置到底263.3億的\n102.7億有多少是用地取得有多少是去分攤到剛才講的那個調度廠的費用若是這兩部分的話我會來跟交通部來協調\n是 因為在彰化鐵路高架也是地方引頸期盼20多年 超過20年以上的一個重大建設因為在這個推動的過程曾經在就是自償率的這個計算的時候就焦灼了一段時間所以我們也希望就是說在這樣子的一個負擔 中央跟地方的一個負擔的比例我們希望就是全國一致的因為我們不希望說主委好像是宜蘭人\n有這樣的這個建議,一定是有根據一些過去的案例,或者是說現在的狀況,過去也有案例用力取得有專政府負擔的,也有縣市有這樣的案例\n請主委努力,因為您也是政委,交通部也是您在督導的業務,是這樣子嗎?是接下來本席來關心一下有關近年轉型的政策,因為剛剛從主委的業務報告裡面也有講到\n這個近年轉型也是我們工程會五大的施政目標之一那我們來回顧一下就是說在2021年這個世界地球日4月22日的時候我們就宣布在2050年要近年排放這樣子一個目標\n公共工程委員會公共工程檢探\n在2022年8月31號發布了公共工程節能減碳減核注意事項那剛剛在你的業務報告裡面你有提到就是說未來的這個最有利標也會把這個就是減碳的這個部分的這個計算也納入評選的一個條件那我覺得說如果說要納入一個評選的條件就是要讓不管是業務單位或者是投票廠商都要有一個依循的一個準則對不對\n我們看到就是說工程會的節能減碳目標就是說希望從減碳設計還有材料及工法等三大面向著手那藉由政府採購機制促使採購機關承攬廠商落實推動節能減碳然後逐步引導供應鏈邁向淨零排放那我想在這個過程我們工程會也訂立了三個階段的一個目標\n那其實其中有兩個很重要的部分就是有關公共工程的減碳指引還有碳排資料庫數據的一個建立那有關這兩項目前就是我們知道工程會就是考量各類工程的特性不同有將公共工程分為八大類就是建築、下水道、水利、能源、橋樑、道路、隧道及軌道類\n那就是要請這個相關的工程主管機關依工程的類型特性訂定這個公共工程檢探的指引那就主委你了解目前這八大類的相關主管機關的進度如何\n我們這個指引的部分陸續在協調各部會來討論目前是水利的部分水利跟水保有完成其他還在討論當中預計是明年114年來完成這個指引這是一個做法之一另外比較重要的是那個碳排係數的資料庫的建立有那個每單項產品的碳排係數才能夠去計算碳排總量\n主委指提到水利喔那這樣子是進度是不是或不差距太大了那你又說104年要要完成嗎完成這個碳排質疑我想這個會命緊有可能嗎現在已經113年\n指引是OK啦那我們比較前端的那個碳排係數的建立需要收集很多資料就其他辦理招標的機關裡面現有的資料去收集或者是現有的廠商他的這個建築材料的一些碳排係數我們收集完了這個才能夠比較長遠的來進行碳排\n是 那個碳排資料庫的一個規劃建制也是預計在114年年底完成嗎我這個請企劃處來我目前是1100筆啦所以那個要陸續再收集那我們希望能夠也是114年能夠能夠收集更廣泛的資料\n是因為我們這些資料若沒有完成的話就是不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商他們都沒有一個依循的一個準則嘛是不是所以我們也希望這個工程會應該盡速完成就是減碳作業的參考指引跟減能減碳的減核機制嘛這樣才能夠掌握這個成效然後應該在這個過程當中你們要積極的去檢討相關的一個策略吧應該做一個滾動式的一個檢討好的好謝謝主委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.823 --> 00:06.428\n謝謝主席請主席邀請陳金德主委請主委委員長\n\n00:14.052 --> 00:30.824\n主委早安本席想先請教一下就是我們有注意到主委在26號的臨書就是發布了一個消息說這個宜蘭鐵路高架地方的配合款可望從105.72億下修為53.87億\n\n00:37.689 --> 00:37.829\n陳素月議員\n\n01:00.916 --> 01:14.363\n曾經焦灼了一大段的時間那我想請問一下就是說陳素月基於什麼樣的條件跟理由可以宣布說依然鐵路高價地方配合款可望下修為53.87億\n\n01:16.785 --> 01:31.161\n謝謝委員因為醫院的鐵路高加泰申請審議的將近10年那這10年當中事實上他的鐵路立體化的相關經費分攤的審查要點有修正過\n\n01:32.623 --> 01:50.434\n那我們後來去檢視啊因為每個地方的鐵路高架地方政府的分攤的確都很沉重那尤其是非六都的部分財務狀況都不是那麼好所以呢這個分攤是按照財務狀況分財務等級來分配比方說有7525有8614等等這個財務狀況的等級應該在之前的這個\n\n01:59.119 --> 02:16.791\n總經費的分配就是中央和地方的負擔應該就已經有納入計算了嗎這次我們檢視就其中的用地取得鐵路高架因為他要現場的那個路線是高架所以在高架的同時旁邊要徵收土地做臨時軌就是要涉及土地徵收那這個土地徵收將來是屬於\n\n02:19.072 --> 02:30.778\n國營的臺灣鐵路公司的所以才認為說既然將來的土地全屬是屬於中央的所以這個土地取得我們建立由中央來負擔另外第二個就是說調度廠就是機場\n\n02:34.139 --> 02:34.779\n您這樣的想法有共識了嗎?\n\n02:57.388 --> 03:09.817\n這個我們當中這兩三個月都有密集召開過會議那麼也檢視過這個審查要點那行政院也經過一步長時間的討論基本上這個原則針對財務狀況比較不好的縣市來做這樣的一個主張也是算合理的\n\n03:19.770 --> 03:35.627\n好那就是如果說宜蘭鐵路高架就是可以從這個地方負擔可以從105.72億下修為53.87億那彰化的鐵路高架是不是也可以下修這個地方的負擔款\n\n03:36.087 --> 04:01.506\n我會跟部長交通部長來討論所以我剛才講的那兩個項目一個是用地取得一個是管理機場有新設機場的話那個調度的那部分不要納入分攤那用地取得完全中央來負擔因為那是中央的財產就是鐵路公司的財產所以這部分會比較明確所以很難從數字來看我要看裡面的配置到底263.3億的\n\n04:07.285 --> 04:17.979\n102.7億有多少是用地取得有多少是去分攤到剛才講的那個調度廠的費用若是這兩部分的話我會來跟交通部來協調\n\n04:19.528 --> 04:46.394\n是因為在彰化鐵路高架也是地方引頸期盼20多年超過20年以上的一個重大建設因為在這個推動的過程曾經在就是自償率的這個計算的時候就焦灼了一段時間所以我們也希望就是說在這樣子的一個負擔中央跟地方的一個負擔的比例我們希望就是全國一致的因為我們不希望說主委好像是宜蘭人\n\n04:52.577 --> 05:07.668\n有這樣的這個建議,一定是有根據一些過去的案例,或者是說現在的狀況,過去也有案例用力取得有專政府負擔的,也有縣市有這樣的案例\n\n05:10.633 --> 05:28.386\n請主委努力,因為您也是政委,交通部也是您在督導的業務,是這樣子嗎?是接下來本席來關心一下有關近年轉型的政策,因為剛剛從主委的業務報告裡面也有講到\n\n05:29.347 --> 05:44.854\n這個近年轉型也是我們工程會五大的施政目標之一那我們來回顧一下就是說在2021年這個世界地球日4月22日的時候我們就宣布在2050年要近年排放這樣子一個目標\n\n05:46.014 --> 05:46.595\n公共工程委員會公共工程檢探\n\n06:03.215 --> 06:30.496\n在2022年8月31號發布了公共工程節能減碳減核注意事項那剛剛在你的業務報告裡面你有提到就是說未來的這個最有利標也會把這個就是減碳的這個部分的這個計算也納入評選的一個條件那我覺得說如果說要納入一個評選的條件就是要讓不管是業務單位或者是投票廠商都要有一個依循的一個準則對不對\n\n06:33.653 --> 06:56.484\n我們看到就是說工程會的節能減碳目標就是說希望從減碳設計還有材料及工法等三大面向著手那藉由政府採購機制促使採購機關承攬廠商落實推動節能減碳然後逐步引導供應鏈邁向淨零排放那我想在這個過程我們工程會也訂立了三個階段的一個目標\n\n06:57.324 --> 07:24.098\n那其實其中有兩個很重要的部分就是有關公共工程的減碳指引還有碳排資料庫數據的一個建立那有關這兩項目前就是我們知道工程會就是考量各類工程的特性不同有將公共工程分為八大類就是建築、下水道、水利、能源、橋樑、道路、隧道及軌道類\n\n07:24.978 --> 07:39.924\n那就是要請這個相關的工程主管機關依工程的類型特性訂定這個公共工程檢探的指引那就主委你了解目前這八大類的相關主管機關的進度如何\n\n07:43.154 --> 08:10.916\n我們這個指引的部分陸續在協調各部會來討論目前是水利的部分水利跟水保有完成其他還在討論當中預計是明年114年來完成這個指引這是一個做法之一另外比較重要的是那個碳排係數的資料庫的建立有那個每單項產品的碳排係數才能夠去計算碳排總量\n\n08:11.676 --> 08:16.340\n主委指提到水利喔那這樣子是進度是不是或不差距太大了那你又說104年要要完成嗎完成這個碳排質疑我想這個會命緊有可能嗎現在已經113年\n\n08:37.557 --> 09:00.025\n指引是OK啦那我們比較前端的那個碳排係數的建立需要收集很多資料就其他辦理招標的機關裡面現有的資料去收集或者是現有的廠商他的這個建築材料的一些碳排係數我們收集完了這個才能夠比較長遠的來進行碳排\n\n09:00.666 --> 09:20.627\n是那個碳排資料庫的一個規劃建制也是預計在114年年底完成嗎我這個請企劃處來我目前是1100筆啦所以那個要陸續再收集那我們希望能夠也是114年能夠能夠收集更廣泛的資料\n\n09:21.559 --> 09:47.330\n是因為我們這些資料若沒有完成的話就是不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商他們都沒有一個依循的一個準則嘛是不是所以我們也希望這個工程會應該盡速完成就是減碳作業的參考指引跟減能減碳的減核機制嘛這樣才能夠掌握這個成效然後應該在這個過程當中你們要積極的去檢討相關的一個策略吧應該做一個滾動式的一個檢討好的好謝謝主委\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.823,"end":6.428,"text":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請陳金德主委請主委委員長"},{"start":14.052,"end":30.824,"text":"主委早安本席想先請教一下就是我們有注意到主委在26號的臨書就是發布了一個消息說這個宜蘭鐵路高架地方的配合款可望從105.72億下修為53.87億"},{"start":37.689,"end":37.829,"text":"陳素月議員"},{"start":60.916,"end":74.363,"text":"曾經焦灼了一大段的時間那我想請問一下就是說陳素月基於什麼樣的條件跟理由可以宣布說依然鐵路高價地方配合款可望下修為53.87億"},{"start":76.785,"end":91.161,"text":"謝謝委員因為醫院的鐵路高加泰申請審議的將近10年那這10年當中事實上他的鐵路立體化的相關經費分攤的審查要點有修正過"},{"start":92.623,"end":110.434,"text":"那我們後來去檢視啊因為每個地方的鐵路高架地方政府的分攤的確都很沉重那尤其是非六都的部分財務狀況都不是那麼好所以呢這個分攤是按照財務狀況分財務等級來分配比方說有75 25有86 14等等這個財務狀況的等級應該在之前的這個"},{"start":119.119,"end":136.791,"text":"總經費的分配就是中央和地方的負擔應該就已經有納入計算了嗎這次我們檢視就其中的用地取得鐵路高架因為他要現場的那個路線是高架所以在高架的同時旁邊要徵收土地做臨時軌就是要涉及土地徵收那這個土地徵收將來是屬於"},{"start":139.072,"end":150.778,"text":"國營的臺灣鐵路公司的所以才認為說既然將來的土地全屬是屬於中央的所以這個土地取得我們建立由中央來負擔另外第二個就是說調度廠就是機場"},{"start":154.139,"end":154.779,"text":"您這樣的想法有共識了嗎?"},{"start":177.388,"end":189.817,"text":"這個我們當中這兩三個月都有密集召開過會議那麼也檢視過這個審查要點那行政院也經過一步長時間的討論基本上這個原則針對財務狀況比較不好的縣市來做這樣的一個主張也是算合理的"},{"start":199.77,"end":215.627,"text":"好那就是如果說宜蘭鐵路高架就是可以從這個地方負擔可以從105.72億下修為53.87億那彰化的鐵路高架是不是也可以下修這個地方的負擔款"},{"start":216.087,"end":241.506,"text":"我會跟部長交通部長來討論所以我剛才講的那兩個項目一個是用地取得一個是管理機場有新設機場的話那個調度的那部分不要納入分攤那用地取得完全中央來負擔因為那是中央的財產就是鐵路公司的財產所以這部分會比較明確所以很難從數字來看我要看裡面的配置到底263.3億的"},{"start":247.285,"end":257.979,"text":"102.7億有多少是用地取得有多少是去分攤到剛才講的那個調度廠的費用若是這兩部分的話我會來跟交通部來協調"},{"start":259.528,"end":286.394,"text":"是 因為在彰化鐵路高架也是地方引頸期盼20多年 超過20年以上的一個重大建設因為在這個推動的過程曾經在就是自償率的這個計算的時候就焦灼了一段時間所以我們也希望就是說在這樣子的一個負擔 中央跟地方的一個負擔的比例我們希望就是全國一致的因為我們不希望說主委好像是宜蘭人"},{"start":292.577,"end":307.668,"text":"有這樣的這個建議,一定是有根據一些過去的案例,或者是說現在的狀況,過去也有案例用力取得有專政府負擔的,也有縣市有這樣的案例"},{"start":310.633,"end":328.386,"text":"請主委努力,因為您也是政委,交通部也是您在督導的業務,是這樣子嗎?是接下來本席來關心一下有關近年轉型的政策,因為剛剛從主委的業務報告裡面也有講到"},{"start":329.347,"end":344.854,"text":"這個近年轉型也是我們工程會五大的施政目標之一那我們來回顧一下就是說在2021年這個世界地球日4月22日的時候我們就宣布在2050年要近年排放這樣子一個目標"},{"start":346.014,"end":346.595,"text":"公共工程委員會公共工程檢探"},{"start":363.215,"end":390.496,"text":"在2022年8月31號發布了公共工程節能減碳減核注意事項那剛剛在你的業務報告裡面你有提到就是說未來的這個最有利標也會把這個就是減碳的這個部分的這個計算也納入評選的一個條件那我覺得說如果說要納入一個評選的條件就是要讓不管是業務單位或者是投票廠商都要有一個依循的一個準則對不對"},{"start":393.653,"end":416.484,"text":"我們看到就是說工程會的節能減碳目標就是說希望從減碳設計還有材料及工法等三大面向著手那藉由政府採購機制促使採購機關承攬廠商落實推動節能減碳然後逐步引導供應鏈邁向淨零排放那我想在這個過程我們工程會也訂立了三個階段的一個目標"},{"start":417.324,"end":444.098,"text":"那其實其中有兩個很重要的部分就是有關公共工程的減碳指引還有碳排資料庫數據的一個建立那有關這兩項目前就是我們知道工程會就是考量各類工程的特性不同有將公共工程分為八大類就是建築、下水道、水利、能源、橋樑、道路、隧道及軌道類"},{"start":444.978,"end":459.924,"text":"那就是要請這個相關的工程主管機關依工程的類型特性訂定這個公共工程檢探的指引那就主委你了解目前這八大類的相關主管機關的進度如何"},{"start":463.154,"end":490.916,"text":"我們這個指引的部分陸續在協調各部會來討論目前是水利的部分水利跟水保有完成其他還在討論當中預計是明年114年來完成這個指引這是一個做法之一另外比較重要的是那個碳排係數的資料庫的建立有那個每單項產品的碳排係數才能夠去計算碳排總量"},{"start":491.676,"end":496.34,"text":"主委指提到水利喔那這樣子是進度是不是或不差距太大了那你又說104年要要完成嗎完成這個碳排質疑我想這個會命緊有可能嗎現在已經113年"},{"start":517.557,"end":540.025,"text":"指引是OK啦那我們比較前端的那個碳排係數的建立需要收集很多資料就其他辦理招標的機關裡面現有的資料去收集或者是現有的廠商他的這個建築材料的一些碳排係數我們收集完了這個才能夠比較長遠的來進行碳排"},{"start":540.666,"end":560.627,"text":"是 那個碳排資料庫的一個規劃建制也是預計在114年年底完成嗎我這個請企劃處來我目前是1100筆啦所以那個要陸續再收集那我們希望能夠也是114年能夠能夠收集更廣泛的資料"},{"start":561.559,"end":587.33,"text":"是因為我們這些資料若沒有完成的話就是不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商他們都沒有一個依循的一個準則嘛是不是所以我們也希望這個工程會應該盡速完成就是減碳作業的參考指引跟減能減碳的減核機制嘛這樣才能夠掌握這個成效然後應該在這個過程當中你們要積極的去檢討相關的一個策略吧應該做一個滾動式的一個檢討好的好謝謝主委"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[23],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:52:39 - 10:02:32","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154948,"gazette":{"lineno":239,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（9時52分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請陳金德主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：委員早。"],["陳委員素月：主委早安。本席想先請教一下，我們有注意到主委在26號的臉書發布了一個消息，說宜蘭鐵路高架地方的配合款可望從105.72億下修為53.87億，有宣布了這樣的消息。你這樣子一發文之後，真的是一個震撼彈，因為我們彰化同樣也有鐵路高架的問題過去以來，在整個推動鐵路高架的過程當中，當然有很多的條件，才能夠讓這個計畫慢慢地往前推，其中配合款就曾經膠著了一大段的時間。我想請問一下，陳主委基於什麼樣的條件跟理由，可以宣布宜蘭鐵路高架地方配合款可望下修為53.87億？"],["陳主任委員金德：謝謝委員，因為宜蘭的鐵路高架已經申請審議了將近十年，在這十年當中，事實上，鐵路立體化經費分攤的審查要點有修正過，我們後來去檢視，因為每個地方的鐵路高架，地方政府的分攤的確都很沉重，尤其是非六都的部分，財務狀況都不是那麼好，所以這個分攤是按照財務狀況、財務等級來分配，比方說有75%、25%、80%、64%等等。"],["陳委員素月：這個財務狀況的等級應該在之前的總經費分配，也就是中央跟地方的負擔應該就已經有納入計算了嘛！"],["陳主任委員金德：對，這次我們檢視的就是其中的用地取得，鐵路高架因為它要現場的路線做高架，所以在高架的同時，旁邊要徵收土地做臨時軌，這都要涉及土地徵收，而這個土地徵收將來是屬於國營臺灣鐵路公司的，所以才認為說既然將來的土地權屬是屬於中央的，所以這個土地取得我們建議由中央來負擔。","另外，第二個是調度場，也就是機廠，關於機廠，不管是將來的財產或者運作，也都是鐵路公司，所以這一部分就不需要按照原比率80%、64%來分攤。也因此這兩個我們認為由中央來分擔，針對財務狀況比較不好的縣市做這樣的建議。"],["陳委員素月：是，那您這樣的建議、這樣的想法有共識了嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們在當中這兩、三個月都有密集召開過會議，同時也檢視過審查要點，行政院也經過長時間的討論，基本上，這個原則（針對財務狀況比較不好的縣市來做這樣的主張）也是算合理的。"],["陳委員素月：好，如果宜蘭鐵路高架的地方負擔可以從105.72億下修為53.87億，那彰化的鐵路高架是不是也可以下修地方的負擔款？"],["陳主任委員金德：我會跟交通部長討論，我剛才講的那兩個項目，一個是用地取得，一個是關於機廠，如果有新設機廠的話，調度的那部分不要納入分攤，用地取得完全由中央來負擔，因為那是中央的財產，也就是鐵路公司的財產，這部分會比較明確，所以很難從數字來看，我要看裡面的配置，到底102.7億裡面有多少是用地取得、有多少是分攤到剛才所講的調度場的費用，如果是這兩部分的話，我會來跟交通部協調。"],["陳委員素月：因為彰化鐵路高架也是地方引頸企盼超過二十年以上的重大建設，在推動的過程中，曾經在自償率計算的時候就膠著了一段時間。針對中央跟地方的負擔比例，我們希望是全國一致的，我們不希望因為主委是宜蘭人，所以就好像獨厚宜蘭，應該不會吧？"],["陳主任委員金德：不會啦，有這樣的建議一定是根據一些過去的案例或者是現在的狀況，過去也有案例是用地取得由中央政府負擔的，也有縣市有這樣的案例。"],["陳委員素月：好，謝謝，那麼就請主委努力了，因為您也是政委，而交通部也是您在督導的業務，是這樣子嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：是。"],["陳委員素月：好，謝謝。","接下來本席來關心一下有關淨零轉型的政策，因為剛剛主委的業務報告裡面有講到淨零轉型也是工程會五大施政目標之一。我們來回顧一下，在2021年4月22日世界地球日的時候，我們就宣布在2050年要達成淨零排放的目標，在2022年3月公布了淨零排放轉型的路徑，同年12月也公布了淨零轉型在2030年階段性的目標，所以最近兩年公共工程委員會也開始推動公共工程的減碳，在2022年8月31號發布了公共工程節能減碳檢核注意事項。剛剛在你的業務報告裡面也有提到，未來的最有利標也會把減碳部分的計算納入評選的條件，我覺得如果要納入評選的條件，就是要讓不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商都要有一個依循的準則，對不對？"],["陳主任委員金德：對。"],["陳委員素月：我們看到工程會節能減碳的目標是希望從減碳設計、材料及工法等三大面向著手，藉由政府採購機制，促使採購機關、承攬廠商落實推動節能減碳，然後逐步引導供應鏈邁向淨零排放。在這個過程，工程會也訂立了三個階段的目標，其實其中有兩個很重要的部分，就是有關公共工程的減碳指引以及碳排資料庫數據的建立。有關這兩項，我們知道目前工程會考量各類工程的特性不同，將公共工程分為八大類，就是建築、下水道、水利、能源、橋梁、道路、隧道及軌道類，也就是要請相關的工程主管機關依工程的類型、特性訂定公共工程減碳的指引。就主委的了解，目前這八大類相關主管機關的進度如何？"],["陳主任委員金德：指引的部分，我們陸續在協調各部會來討論，目前是水利跟水保有完成，其他還在討論當中，預計是明年（114年）完成這個指引，這是一個作法之一。另外，比較重要的是碳排係數資料庫的建立，有每單項產品的碳排係數才能夠去計算碳排總量，所以我們另外還要建立一個估算系統，等這些都建置完成，我想主辦機關來計算碳排就比較容易。"],["陳委員素月：剛剛我們提到八大類，而主委只提到水利，這樣子進度是不是差距太大了？你又說114年要完成嘛！"],["陳主任委員金德：完成碳排指引，我們會密集跟各部會來討論。"],["陳委員素月：這樣子有可能嗎？現在已經113年下半年了。"],["陳主任委員金德：指引是OK啦！我們比較前端的碳排係數建立是需要蒐集很多資料，就其他辦理招標機關裡面現有的資料去蒐集，或者是現有廠商的建築材料的一些碳排係數，我們蒐集完了才能夠比較長遠地來進行碳排。"],["陳委員素月：是，碳排資料庫的規劃、建置也是預計在114年底完成嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：這個我請企劃處來……"],["陳委員素月：好，請企劃處回復一下。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們目前是1,100筆，所以要陸續再蒐集，我們希望也是114年能夠蒐集更廣泛的資料。"],["陳委員素月：是，因為這些資料如果沒有完成的話，不管是業務單位或者是投標廠商都沒有一個依循的準則，是不是？"],["陳主任委員金德：是的、是的。"],["陳委員素月：所以我們也希望工程會應該儘速完成減碳作業的參考指引跟節能減碳的檢核機制，這樣才能夠掌握成效，然後應該也在這個過程當中，你們要積極地去檢討相關的策略，應該做滾動式的檢討。"],["陳主任委員金德：好的。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝主委。"],["主席（陳委員素月）：接下來邀請李昆澤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-3","speakers":["陳素月","林俊憲","許智傑","黃健豪","林沛祥","李昆澤","何欣純","廖先翔","魯明哲","邱若華","蔡其昌","林國成","游顥","徐富癸","黃國昌","洪孟楷","王美惠","廖偉翔","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","王鴻薇","陳俊宇","李柏毅","羅智強","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00013"}}}