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\"text\": \"如果他說有預留華南銀行的額度結果沒有這個就是不實廣告如果沒有的時候就不實廣告所以我們如果看到這個他說預留華南銀行貸款額度的時候那我們去買了房子到時候華南銀行沒有貸款給我們的時候這個建商就會出問題是這個意思嗎我的意思是說你廣告說什麼就要有什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 519.161, \"end\": 519.461, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 519.461, \"end\": 519.662, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 519.662, \"end\": 520.062, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 520.062, \"end\": 520.523, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 520.523, \"end\": 521.003, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 521.003, \"end\": 521.343, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 521.343, \"end\": 521.564, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 521.564, \"end\": 521.964, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 521.964, \"end\": 522.465, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 522.465, \"end\": 522.645, 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\"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 525.648, \"end\": 525.748, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 525.748, \"end\": 526.229, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 526.229, \"end\": 526.649, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 526.649, \"end\": 526.669, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 526.669, \"end\": 526.85, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 526.85, \"end\": 527.05, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 527.05, \"end\": 527.17, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 527.17, \"end\": 527.29, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 527.29, \"end\": 527.53, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 527.53, \"end\": 528.451, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 528.451, \"end\": 528.872, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 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0.975}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 531.715, \"end\": 532.136, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 532.136, \"end\": 532.396, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 532.396, \"end\": 532.516, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 532.516, \"end\": 532.696, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 532.696, \"end\": 532.816, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 532.816, \"end\": 532.896, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 532.896, \"end\": 533.117, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"貸\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 533.117, \"end\": 533.437, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 533.437, \"end\": 533.637, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 533.637, \"end\": 533.918, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 533.918, \"end\": 534.598, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 534.598, \"end\": 534.758, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 534.758, \"end\": 534.939, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 534.939, \"end\": 535.139, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 535.139, \"end\": 535.68, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 535.68, \"end\": 535.96, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 535.96, \"end\": 536.12, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 536.12, \"end\": 536.681, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 536.681, \"end\": 536.881, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 536.881, \"end\": 536.981, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 536.981, \"end\": 537.081, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 537.081, \"end\": 537.261, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 537.261, \"end\": 537.421, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 537.421, \"end\": 537.862, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"廣\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 537.862, \"end\": 538.262, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 538.262, \"end\": 538.523, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 538.523, \"end\": 538.623, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 538.623, \"end\": 538.743, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 538.743, \"end\": 538.943, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 538.943, \"end\": 538.963, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 539.684, \"end\": 568.013, \"text\": \"所以我說你看嘛右邊這廣告已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安心購屋那這樣子算不算是一個不實廣告算不算有誤導民眾需要去查因為我們在看的是不實以至於誤導如果沒有不實就不會到誤導的問題那這樣子算不算不實主委你的專業你這樣直接看算不算不實是不是真的有華南銀行貸款是怎麼說的這個是需要了解的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 539.684, \"end\": 540.504, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 540.504, \"end\": 540.664, \"score\": 0.874}, 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\"start\": 668.784, \"end\": 668.864, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 668.864, \"end\": 668.884, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,173 --> 00:00:31,579\n主席,我想請一下李美主委委員長主委好,那個詐騙廣告現在也是到公平會這邊那我想說詐騙廣告肯定是個不實廣告我們公平會對於整個所有的詐騙的那個相關的廣告相關的行為之前有沒有開出任何的罰則出來\n\n2\n00:00:36,201 --> 00:01:02,491\n我們對於不實廣告都有處罰你針對那個詐騙的部分尤其是有關於一些網路上詐騙的部分因為打詐是現在全民的公憤你把公平會在這個部分做了哪些事情到時候給本席一個書面資料完整的書面資料我們做了哪些相關的一個處罰那我接下來想問一下主任我想問一下你對目前國內的檢探政策\n\n3\n00:01:03,371 --> 00:01:08,772\n包括了碳費、碳權、碳中和還有碳盤查等等是不是很了解?\n\n4\n00:01:09,501 --> 00:01:33,468\n不敢說很瞭解但是有去關注都有關注嗎那因為上個禮拜四環境部發布了一個企業碳中和指引我不知道你知不知道這個事情我知道因為現在很多企業都宣稱自己的產品以達到碳中和但是因為沒有相關的標章消費者不知道說他們是真正的增綠\n\n5\n00:01:34,468 --> 00:01:34,488\n：鄭正鈐\n\n6\n00:01:51,283 --> 00:01:53,765\n請問主委我們公平會是不是準備好了要接環境部丟出來這個球我想這個跨機關的合作是應該的\n\n7\n00:02:10,236 --> 00:02:24,346\n環境部的指引是讓消費者知道什麼叫做碳中和碳排放跟碳移除加減之後要是零不足的時候怎麼去消底那現在就是說消費者或者是一般的企業他換稱我符合碳中和\n\n8\n00:02:25,587 --> 00:02:49,078\n環境部的指引主要是要他揭露清楚你是怎麼算的你排多少減多少我想問一個最基本的問題主委我想問一個最基本的問題因為跟碳有關的問題非常的多我想說講幾個小時候講不完我想國外碳權目前我們如何認定主委國外碳權因為碳中和裡面有一個部分一定是跟國外碳權會有關我們國外碳權目前如何認定\n\n9\n00:02:51,119 --> 00:02:54,821\n公平交易法21條這部分我想先問探權這部分因為我待會會再問到21條的事情因為像現在國際很多的一個探權的一個認證標準像VCS像GS\n\n10\n00:03:21,355 --> 00:03:42,964\n目前我們國家都沒有認定可是像世界很多的大廠包括Apple他們包括通信他們都認定那我們怎麼去處理這個問題就公平會來講他宣稱他得到什麼認證不管是這個國際認可或不認可我們會跟環境部來\n\n11\n00:03:44,962 --> 00:03:59,647\n徵詢意見最主要就是說你說你得到哪裡的認證就必須是那裡的認證所以說跟環境部再去溝通這個部分那我目前可以接受這個狀態因為目前這個還在進行當中那我為什麼會問這個問題是因為我在上個會期我曾經問過了一個電信業者的合併案那麼我們公平會在去年就是通過兩個附帶條件的合併案\n\n12\n00:04:13,331 --> 00:04:33,981\n包括了就是遠傳病亞太去年的7月20號那麼包括了臺灣大哥大病臺灣之心去年的10月10號都有附帶條件那我當時也問了這個問題就是說他合併之後服務品質如果嚴重下降訊號網速都不穩定但上次主委你有回應我就說\n\n13\n00:04:35,305 --> 00:04:56,836\n您說NCC本身有一個觀測小組公平會會跟NCC保持溝通那我想問一下目前觀測的結果是怎麼樣子我想這兩個結合案在公平會我們會去關注他有沒有履行我們付的負擔至於他這個網路品質的監控我們也有就是NCC有沒有結果出來\n\n14\n00:05:03,434 --> 00:05:25,445\n退後再出來我先舉個例子給你這是消費者直接公佈出來的狀態這個其實是台灣之心被病怒台哥大之後那麼消費者用了一個臺大祭祀中心的一個軟體自己測出來的一個結果那其中下載的部分大概在1Mbps到5Mbps的速度\n\n15\n00:05:26,465 --> 00:05:40,293\n那上傳的部分在1Mbps到4Mbps左右的速度這直接大家在網路上公佈出來都很清楚那我想請問一下公平會就是主委你知道說我們正常手機4G的網路下載速度是多少嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:42,912 --> 00:06:10,667\n不是很清楚的掌握這一些不是很清楚所以上次我質詢之後你顯然沒有去follow整個電訊合併之後所產生那個狀態所以我今天在追問的時候請你沒有辦法回應出來像正常的時候40到70M是正常的一個情況在台北的時候不管在台灣在怎麼樣台北到70是很正常的台灣到處至少20M以上都是很基本的一個門檻可是你看\n\n17\n00:06:14,068 --> 00:06:16,392\n臺哥大變了臺灣之星之後只到1到5咩?這樣的狀態是不是有嚴重影響到消費者的權益?\n\n18\n00:06:25,575 --> 00:06:53,648\n若通訊品質沒有達到應該有的這個品質這是有消費者保護的問題所以公平會這邊是不是應該要出手要針對這個事情電信業者合併之後沒有達到他們該提供出來的消費品質公平會是不是應該要出手公平會在當時準結合的時候有一些負擔那這些負擔比較是從這個競爭秩序方面去談的那當然消費者的保護\n\n19\n00:06:55,969 --> 00:07:18,547\n競爭秩序是一塊沒有問題可是消費者保護一定是公平會很重要的一個目標成立公平會很重要的一個目標所以我希望針對這個部分主委你後續再去追蹤一下後續再給本席一個很清楚的一個報告好不好我會跟委員說明這個NCC的負擔跟我們的負擔差別在哪然後針對消費者權益的部分然後NCC這邊\n\n20\n00:07:21,029 --> 00:07:42,840\n顯然沒有很積極去處理這個事情那麼我們是要公平會這邊出手因為現在NCC其實也很亂那我想說針對這個部分再給本席一個完整的一個書面資料那我接下來還要再問一個你剛剛提到就是公平交易法第21條那我想問一下預售屋預售屋的不實廣告你怎麼認定\n\n21\n00:07:44,367 --> 00:08:05,631\n預售屋的不實廣告就是他廣告說他有什麼就要有什麼是所以基本上也是用公平交易法第21條對於有虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表徵基本上這是一個很重要的一個判斷標準對不對是是嗎OK那第42條直接表示說OK那他可以處5萬元到2500萬以下的一個罰款應該也是這樣的一個條件對不對是OK好我想問一個具體的一個個案\n\n22\n00:08:14,182 --> 00:08:37,262\n來主委你看到這樣右邊這樣子的一個廣告的時候他說已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安信購屋華南銀行信託保證這樣的一個廣告的時候你覺得會不會誤導民眾我為什麼會提這個問題因為這個問題是在這一波央行打房之後還持續的廣告\n\n23\n00:08:39,161 --> 00:08:58,963\n如果他說有預留華南銀行的額度結果沒有這個就是不實廣告如果沒有的時候就不實廣告所以我們如果看到這個他說預留華南銀行貸款額度的時候那我們去買了房子到時候華南銀行沒有貸款給我們的時候這個建商就會出問題是這個意思嗎我的意思是說你廣告說什麼就要有什麼\n\n24\n00:08:59,684 --> 00:09:28,013\n所以我說你看嘛右邊這廣告已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安心購屋那這樣子算不算是一個不實廣告算不算有誤導民眾需要去查因為我們在看的是不實以至於誤導如果沒有不實就不會到誤導的問題那這樣子算不算不實主委你的專業你這樣直接看算不算不實是不是真的有華南銀行貸款是怎麼說的這個是需要了解的\n\n25\n00:09:29,011 --> 00:09:39,841\n那是不是會誤導民眾來做購屋因為現在央行現在這一波打房之後出現很多的狀態是很多銀行都說了銀根都不願意再放款出來喔\n\n26\n00:09:42,132 --> 00:09:58,101\n會不會誤導又看各每個不同消費者的認知那主委這個部分我想說請主委這邊再跟我們內政部地政司這邊跟消保行政院消保處這邊的時候去做一個完整一點點的一個\n\n27\n00:10:00,262 --> 00:10:02,484\n公平交易委員會對於預售銷售行為案件的處理原則裡面規範的沒有那麼樣的細緻所以我們希望\n\n28\n00:10:19,673 --> 00:10:20,534\n最後一個部分就是針對\n\n29\n00:10:38,937 --> 00:11:07,864\n建保就是醫療相關的一個掛號費這個部分的時候他算不算是一個聯合行為這一波很多都漲價了在相近的時間都漲價算不算聯合行為有沒有就有漲價是一個客觀事實我們會去看看他們橫向有沒有勾結談價他們肯定有開過會公會裡面肯定有開過會因為我看到你報告裡面針對很多公會的部分包括土木公會\n\n30\n00:11:08,584 --> 00:11:08,884\n主席主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10173\t31579\t主席,我想請一下李美主委委員長主委好,那個詐騙廣告現在也是到公平會這邊那我想說詐騙廣告肯定是個不實廣告我們公平會對於整個所有的詐騙的那個相關的廣告相關的行為之前有沒有開出任何的罰則出來\n36201\t62491\t我們對於不實廣告都有處罰你針對那個詐騙的部分尤其是有關於一些網路上詐騙的部分因為打詐是現在全民的公憤你把公平會在這個部分做了哪些事情到時候給本席一個書面資料完整的書面資料我們做了哪些相關的一個處罰那我接下來想問一下主任我想問一下你對目前國內的檢探政策\n63371\t68772\t包括了碳費、碳權、碳中和還有碳盤查等等是不是很了解?\n69501\t93468\t不敢說很瞭解但是有去關注都有關注嗎那因為上個禮拜四環境部發布了一個企業碳中和指引我不知道你知不知道這個事情我知道因為現在很多企業都宣稱自己的產品以達到碳中和但是因為沒有相關的標章消費者不知道說他們是真正的增綠\n94468\t94488\t：鄭正鈐\n111283\t113765\t請問主委我們公平會是不是準備好了要接環境部丟出來這個球我想這個跨機關的合作是應該的\n130236\t144346\t環境部的指引是讓消費者知道什麼叫做碳中和碳排放跟碳移除加減之後要是零不足的時候怎麼去消底那現在就是說消費者或者是一般的企業他換稱我符合碳中和\n145587\t169078\t環境部的指引主要是要他揭露清楚你是怎麼算的你排多少減多少我想問一個最基本的問題主委我想問一個最基本的問題因為跟碳有關的問題非常的多我想說講幾個小時候講不完我想國外碳權目前我們如何認定主委國外碳權因為碳中和裡面有一個部分一定是跟國外碳權會有關我們國外碳權目前如何認定\n171119\t174821\t公平交易法21條這部分我想先問探權這部分因為我待會會再問到21條的事情因為像現在國際很多的一個探權的一個認證標準像VCS 像GS\n201355\t222964\t目前我們國家都沒有認定可是像世界很多的大廠包括Apple他們包括通信他們都認定那我們怎麼去處理這個問題就公平會來講他宣稱他得到什麼認證不管是這個國際認可或不認可我們會跟環境部來\n224962\t239647\t徵詢意見最主要就是說你說你得到哪裡的認證就必須是那裡的認證所以說跟環境部再去溝通這個部分那我目前可以接受這個狀態因為目前這個還在進行當中那我為什麼會問這個問題是因為我在上個會期我曾經問過了一個電信業者的合併案那麼我們公平會在去年就是通過兩個附帶條件的合併案\n253331\t273981\t包括了就是遠傳病亞太去年的7月20號那麼包括了臺灣大哥大病臺灣之心去年的10月10號都有附帶條件那我當時也問了這個問題就是說他合併之後服務品質如果嚴重下降訊號網速都不穩定但上次主委你有回應我就說\n275305\t296836\t您說NCC本身有一個觀測小組公平會會跟NCC保持溝通那我想問一下目前觀測的結果是怎麼樣子我想這兩個結合案在公平會我們會去關注他有沒有履行我們付的負擔至於他這個網路品質的監控我們也有就是NCC有沒有結果出來\n303434\t325445\t退後再出來我先舉個例子給你這是消費者直接公佈出來的狀態這個其實是台灣之心被病怒台哥大之後那麼消費者用了一個臺大祭祀中心的一個軟體自己測出來的一個結果那其中下載的部分大概在1Mbps到5Mbps的速度\n326465\t340293\t那上傳的部分在1Mbps到4Mbps左右的速度這直接大家在網路上公佈出來都很清楚那我想請問一下公平會就是主委你知道說我們正常手機4G的網路下載速度是多少嗎?\n342912\t370667\t不是很清楚的掌握這一些不是很清楚所以上次我質詢之後你顯然沒有去follow整個電訊合併之後所產生那個狀態所以我今天在追問的時候請你沒有辦法回應出來像正常的時候40到70M是正常的一個情況在台北的時候不管在台灣在怎麼樣台北到70是很正常的台灣到處至少20M以上都是很基本的一個門檻可是你看\n374068\t376392\t臺哥大變了臺灣之星之後只到1到5咩?這樣的狀態是不是有嚴重影響到消費者的權益?\n385575\t413648\t若通訊品質沒有達到應該有的這個品質這是有消費者保護的問題所以公平會這邊是不是應該要出手要針對這個事情電信業者合併之後沒有達到他們該提供出來的消費品質公平會是不是應該要出手公平會在當時準結合的時候有一些負擔那這些負擔比較是從這個競爭秩序方面去談的那當然消費者的保護\n415969\t438547\t競爭秩序是一塊沒有問題可是消費者保護一定是公平會很重要的一個目標成立公平會很重要的一個目標所以我希望針對這個部分主委你後續再去追蹤一下後續再給本席一個很清楚的一個報告好不好我會跟委員說明這個NCC的負擔跟我們的負擔差別在哪然後針對消費者權益的部分然後NCC這邊\n441029\t462840\t顯然沒有很積極去處理這個事情那麼我們是要公平會這邊出手因為現在NCC其實也很亂那我想說針對這個部分再給本席一個完整的一個書面資料那我接下來還要再問一個你剛剛提到就是公平交易法第21條那我想問一下預售屋預售屋的不實廣告你怎麼認定\n464367\t485631\t預售屋的不實廣告就是他廣告說他有什麼就要有什麼是所以基本上也是用公平交易法第21條對於有虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表徵基本上這是一個很重要的一個判斷標準對不對是是嗎OK那第42條直接表示說OK那他可以處5萬元到2500萬以下的一個罰款應該也是這樣的一個條件對不對是OK好我想問一個具體的一個個案\n494182\t517262\t來 主委你看到這樣右邊這樣子的一個廣告的時候他說已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安信購屋華南銀行信託保證這樣的一個廣告的時候你覺得會不會誤導民眾我為什麼會提這個問題因為這個問題是在這一波央行打房之後還持續的廣告\n519161\t538963\t如果他說有預留華南銀行的額度結果沒有這個就是不實廣告如果沒有的時候就不實廣告所以我們如果看到這個他說預留華南銀行貸款額度的時候那我們去買了房子到時候華南銀行沒有貸款給我們的時候這個建商就會出問題是這個意思嗎我的意思是說你廣告說什麼就要有什麼\n539684\t568013\t所以我說你看嘛右邊這廣告已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安心購屋那這樣子算不算是一個不實廣告算不算有誤導民眾需要去查因為我們在看的是不實以至於誤導如果沒有不實就不會到誤導的問題那這樣子算不算不實主委你的專業你這樣直接看算不算不實是不是真的有華南銀行貸款是怎麼說的這個是需要了解的\n569011\t579841\t那是不是會誤導民眾來做購屋因為現在央行現在這一波打房之後出現很多的狀態是很多銀行都說了銀根都不願意再放款出來喔\n582132\t598101\t會不會誤導又看各每個不同消費者的認知那主委這個部分我想說請主委這邊再跟我們內政部地政司這邊跟消保行政院消保處這邊的時候去做一個完整一點點的一個\n600262\t602484\t公平交易委員會對於預售銷售行為案件的處理原則裡面規範的沒有那麼樣的細緻所以我們希望\n619673\t620534\t最後一個部分就是針對\n638937\t667864\t建保就是醫療相關的一個掛號費這個部分的時候他算不算是一個聯合行為這一波很多都漲價了在相近的時間都漲價算不算聯合行為有沒有就有漲價是一個客觀事實我們會去看看他們橫向有沒有勾結談價他們肯定有開過會公會裡面肯定有開過會因為我看到你報告裡面針對很多公會的部分包括土木公會\n668584\t668884\t主席主席\n","txt":"主席,我想請一下李美主委委員長主委好,那個詐騙廣告現在也是到公平會這邊那我想說詐騙廣告肯定是個不實廣告我們公平會對於整個所有的詐騙的那個相關的廣告相關的行為之前有沒有開出任何的罰則出來\n我們對於不實廣告都有處罰你針對那個詐騙的部分尤其是有關於一些網路上詐騙的部分因為打詐是現在全民的公憤你把公平會在這個部分做了哪些事情到時候給本席一個書面資料完整的書面資料我們做了哪些相關的一個處罰那我接下來想問一下主任我想問一下你對目前國內的檢探政策\n包括了碳費、碳權、碳中和還有碳盤查等等是不是很了解?\n不敢說很瞭解但是有去關注都有關注嗎那因為上個禮拜四環境部發布了一個企業碳中和指引我不知道你知不知道這個事情我知道因為現在很多企業都宣稱自己的產品以達到碳中和但是因為沒有相關的標章消費者不知道說他們是真正的增綠\n：鄭正鈐\n請問主委我們公平會是不是準備好了要接環境部丟出來這個球我想這個跨機關的合作是應該的\n環境部的指引是讓消費者知道什麼叫做碳中和碳排放跟碳移除加減之後要是零不足的時候怎麼去消底那現在就是說消費者或者是一般的企業他換稱我符合碳中和\n環境部的指引主要是要他揭露清楚你是怎麼算的你排多少減多少我想問一個最基本的問題主委我想問一個最基本的問題因為跟碳有關的問題非常的多我想說講幾個小時候講不完我想國外碳權目前我們如何認定主委國外碳權因為碳中和裡面有一個部分一定是跟國外碳權會有關我們國外碳權目前如何認定\n公平交易法21條這部分我想先問探權這部分因為我待會會再問到21條的事情因為像現在國際很多的一個探權的一個認證標準像VCS 像GS\n目前我們國家都沒有認定可是像世界很多的大廠包括Apple他們包括通信他們都認定那我們怎麼去處理這個問題就公平會來講他宣稱他得到什麼認證不管是這個國際認可或不認可我們會跟環境部來\n徵詢意見最主要就是說你說你得到哪裡的認證就必須是那裡的認證所以說跟環境部再去溝通這個部分那我目前可以接受這個狀態因為目前這個還在進行當中那我為什麼會問這個問題是因為我在上個會期我曾經問過了一個電信業者的合併案那麼我們公平會在去年就是通過兩個附帶條件的合併案\n包括了就是遠傳病亞太去年的7月20號那麼包括了臺灣大哥大病臺灣之心去年的10月10號都有附帶條件那我當時也問了這個問題就是說他合併之後服務品質如果嚴重下降訊號網速都不穩定但上次主委你有回應我就說\n您說NCC本身有一個觀測小組公平會會跟NCC保持溝通那我想問一下目前觀測的結果是怎麼樣子我想這兩個結合案在公平會我們會去關注他有沒有履行我們付的負擔至於他這個網路品質的監控我們也有就是NCC有沒有結果出來\n退後再出來我先舉個例子給你這是消費者直接公佈出來的狀態這個其實是台灣之心被病怒台哥大之後那麼消費者用了一個臺大祭祀中心的一個軟體自己測出來的一個結果那其中下載的部分大概在1Mbps到5Mbps的速度\n那上傳的部分在1Mbps到4Mbps左右的速度這直接大家在網路上公佈出來都很清楚那我想請問一下公平會就是主委你知道說我們正常手機4G的網路下載速度是多少嗎?\n不是很清楚的掌握這一些不是很清楚所以上次我質詢之後你顯然沒有去follow整個電訊合併之後所產生那個狀態所以我今天在追問的時候請你沒有辦法回應出來像正常的時候40到70M是正常的一個情況在台北的時候不管在台灣在怎麼樣台北到70是很正常的台灣到處至少20M以上都是很基本的一個門檻可是你看\n臺哥大變了臺灣之星之後只到1到5咩?這樣的狀態是不是有嚴重影響到消費者的權益?\n若通訊品質沒有達到應該有的這個品質這是有消費者保護的問題所以公平會這邊是不是應該要出手要針對這個事情電信業者合併之後沒有達到他們該提供出來的消費品質公平會是不是應該要出手公平會在當時準結合的時候有一些負擔那這些負擔比較是從這個競爭秩序方面去談的那當然消費者的保護\n競爭秩序是一塊沒有問題可是消費者保護一定是公平會很重要的一個目標成立公平會很重要的一個目標所以我希望針對這個部分主委你後續再去追蹤一下後續再給本席一個很清楚的一個報告好不好我會跟委員說明這個NCC的負擔跟我們的負擔差別在哪然後針對消費者權益的部分然後NCC這邊\n顯然沒有很積極去處理這個事情那麼我們是要公平會這邊出手因為現在NCC其實也很亂那我想說針對這個部分再給本席一個完整的一個書面資料那我接下來還要再問一個你剛剛提到就是公平交易法第21條那我想問一下預售屋預售屋的不實廣告你怎麼認定\n預售屋的不實廣告就是他廣告說他有什麼就要有什麼是所以基本上也是用公平交易法第21條對於有虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表徵基本上這是一個很重要的一個判斷標準對不對是是嗎OK那第42條直接表示說OK那他可以處5萬元到2500萬以下的一個罰款應該也是這樣的一個條件對不對是OK好我想問一個具體的一個個案\n來 主委你看到這樣右邊這樣子的一個廣告的時候他說已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安信購屋華南銀行信託保證這樣的一個廣告的時候你覺得會不會誤導民眾我為什麼會提這個問題因為這個問題是在這一波央行打房之後還持續的廣告\n如果他說有預留華南銀行的額度結果沒有這個就是不實廣告如果沒有的時候就不實廣告所以我們如果看到這個他說預留華南銀行貸款額度的時候那我們去買了房子到時候華南銀行沒有貸款給我們的時候這個建商就會出問題是這個意思嗎我的意思是說你廣告說什麼就要有什麼\n所以我說你看嘛右邊這廣告已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安心購屋那這樣子算不算是一個不實廣告算不算有誤導民眾需要去查因為我們在看的是不實以至於誤導如果沒有不實就不會到誤導的問題那這樣子算不算不實主委你的專業你這樣直接看算不算不實是不是真的有華南銀行貸款是怎麼說的這個是需要了解的\n那是不是會誤導民眾來做購屋因為現在央行現在這一波打房之後出現很多的狀態是很多銀行都說了銀根都不願意再放款出來喔\n會不會誤導又看各每個不同消費者的認知那主委這個部分我想說請主委這邊再跟我們內政部地政司這邊跟消保行政院消保處這邊的時候去做一個完整一點點的一個\n公平交易委員會對於預售銷售行為案件的處理原則裡面規範的沒有那麼樣的細緻所以我們希望\n最後一個部分就是針對\n建保就是醫療相關的一個掛號費這個部分的時候他算不算是一個聯合行為這一波很多都漲價了在相近的時間都漲價算不算聯合行為有沒有就有漲價是一個客觀事實我們會去看看他們橫向有沒有勾結談價他們肯定有開過會公會裡面肯定有開過會因為我看到你報告裡面針對很多公會的部分包括土木公會\n主席主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.173 --> 00:31.579\n主席,我想請一下李美主委委員長主委好,那個詐騙廣告現在也是到公平會這邊那我想說詐騙廣告肯定是個不實廣告我們公平會對於整個所有的詐騙的那個相關的廣告相關的行為之前有沒有開出任何的罰則出來\n\n00:36.201 --> 01:02.491\n我們對於不實廣告都有處罰你針對那個詐騙的部分尤其是有關於一些網路上詐騙的部分因為打詐是現在全民的公憤你把公平會在這個部分做了哪些事情到時候給本席一個書面資料完整的書面資料我們做了哪些相關的一個處罰那我接下來想問一下主任我想問一下你對目前國內的檢探政策\n\n01:03.371 --> 01:08.772\n包括了碳費、碳權、碳中和還有碳盤查等等是不是很了解?\n\n01:09.501 --> 01:33.468\n不敢說很瞭解但是有去關注都有關注嗎那因為上個禮拜四環境部發布了一個企業碳中和指引我不知道你知不知道這個事情我知道因為現在很多企業都宣稱自己的產品以達到碳中和但是因為沒有相關的標章消費者不知道說他們是真正的增綠\n\n01:34.468 --> 01:34.488\n：鄭正鈐\n\n01:51.283 --> 01:53.765\n請問主委我們公平會是不是準備好了要接環境部丟出來這個球我想這個跨機關的合作是應該的\n\n02:10.236 --> 02:24.346\n環境部的指引是讓消費者知道什麼叫做碳中和碳排放跟碳移除加減之後要是零不足的時候怎麼去消底那現在就是說消費者或者是一般的企業他換稱我符合碳中和\n\n02:25.587 --> 02:49.078\n環境部的指引主要是要他揭露清楚你是怎麼算的你排多少減多少我想問一個最基本的問題主委我想問一個最基本的問題因為跟碳有關的問題非常的多我想說講幾個小時候講不完我想國外碳權目前我們如何認定主委國外碳權因為碳中和裡面有一個部分一定是跟國外碳權會有關我們國外碳權目前如何認定\n\n02:51.119 --> 02:54.821\n公平交易法21條這部分我想先問探權這部分因為我待會會再問到21條的事情因為像現在國際很多的一個探權的一個認證標準像VCS像GS\n\n03:21.355 --> 03:42.964\n目前我們國家都沒有認定可是像世界很多的大廠包括Apple他們包括通信他們都認定那我們怎麼去處理這個問題就公平會來講他宣稱他得到什麼認證不管是這個國際認可或不認可我們會跟環境部來\n\n03:44.962 --> 03:59.647\n徵詢意見最主要就是說你說你得到哪裡的認證就必須是那裡的認證所以說跟環境部再去溝通這個部分那我目前可以接受這個狀態因為目前這個還在進行當中那我為什麼會問這個問題是因為我在上個會期我曾經問過了一個電信業者的合併案那麼我們公平會在去年就是通過兩個附帶條件的合併案\n\n04:13.331 --> 04:33.981\n包括了就是遠傳病亞太去年的7月20號那麼包括了臺灣大哥大病臺灣之心去年的10月10號都有附帶條件那我當時也問了這個問題就是說他合併之後服務品質如果嚴重下降訊號網速都不穩定但上次主委你有回應我就說\n\n04:35.305 --> 04:56.836\n您說NCC本身有一個觀測小組公平會會跟NCC保持溝通那我想問一下目前觀測的結果是怎麼樣子我想這兩個結合案在公平會我們會去關注他有沒有履行我們付的負擔至於他這個網路品質的監控我們也有就是NCC有沒有結果出來\n\n05:03.434 --> 05:25.445\n退後再出來我先舉個例子給你這是消費者直接公佈出來的狀態這個其實是台灣之心被病怒台哥大之後那麼消費者用了一個臺大祭祀中心的一個軟體自己測出來的一個結果那其中下載的部分大概在1Mbps到5Mbps的速度\n\n05:26.465 --> 05:40.293\n那上傳的部分在1Mbps到4Mbps左右的速度這直接大家在網路上公佈出來都很清楚那我想請問一下公平會就是主委你知道說我們正常手機4G的網路下載速度是多少嗎?\n\n05:42.912 --> 06:10.667\n不是很清楚的掌握這一些不是很清楚所以上次我質詢之後你顯然沒有去follow整個電訊合併之後所產生那個狀態所以我今天在追問的時候請你沒有辦法回應出來像正常的時候40到70M是正常的一個情況在台北的時候不管在台灣在怎麼樣台北到70是很正常的台灣到處至少20M以上都是很基本的一個門檻可是你看\n\n06:14.068 --> 06:16.392\n臺哥大變了臺灣之星之後只到1到5咩?這樣的狀態是不是有嚴重影響到消費者的權益?\n\n06:25.575 --> 06:53.648\n若通訊品質沒有達到應該有的這個品質這是有消費者保護的問題所以公平會這邊是不是應該要出手要針對這個事情電信業者合併之後沒有達到他們該提供出來的消費品質公平會是不是應該要出手公平會在當時準結合的時候有一些負擔那這些負擔比較是從這個競爭秩序方面去談的那當然消費者的保護\n\n06:55.969 --> 07:18.547\n競爭秩序是一塊沒有問題可是消費者保護一定是公平會很重要的一個目標成立公平會很重要的一個目標所以我希望針對這個部分主委你後續再去追蹤一下後續再給本席一個很清楚的一個報告好不好我會跟委員說明這個NCC的負擔跟我們的負擔差別在哪然後針對消費者權益的部分然後NCC這邊\n\n07:21.029 --> 07:42.840\n顯然沒有很積極去處理這個事情那麼我們是要公平會這邊出手因為現在NCC其實也很亂那我想說針對這個部分再給本席一個完整的一個書面資料那我接下來還要再問一個你剛剛提到就是公平交易法第21條那我想問一下預售屋預售屋的不實廣告你怎麼認定\n\n07:44.367 --> 08:05.631\n預售屋的不實廣告就是他廣告說他有什麼就要有什麼是所以基本上也是用公平交易法第21條對於有虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表徵基本上這是一個很重要的一個判斷標準對不對是是嗎OK那第42條直接表示說OK那他可以處5萬元到2500萬以下的一個罰款應該也是這樣的一個條件對不對是OK好我想問一個具體的一個個案\n\n08:14.182 --> 08:37.262\n來主委你看到這樣右邊這樣子的一個廣告的時候他說已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安信購屋華南銀行信託保證這樣的一個廣告的時候你覺得會不會誤導民眾我為什麼會提這個問題因為這個問題是在這一波央行打房之後還持續的廣告\n\n08:39.161 --> 08:58.963\n如果他說有預留華南銀行的額度結果沒有這個就是不實廣告如果沒有的時候就不實廣告所以我們如果看到這個他說預留華南銀行貸款額度的時候那我們去買了房子到時候華南銀行沒有貸款給我們的時候這個建商就會出問題是這個意思嗎我的意思是說你廣告說什麼就要有什麼\n\n08:59.684 --> 09:28.013\n所以我說你看嘛右邊這廣告已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安心購屋那這樣子算不算是一個不實廣告算不算有誤導民眾需要去查因為我們在看的是不實以至於誤導如果沒有不實就不會到誤導的問題那這樣子算不算不實主委你的專業你這樣直接看算不算不實是不是真的有華南銀行貸款是怎麼說的這個是需要了解的\n\n09:29.011 --> 09:39.841\n那是不是會誤導民眾來做購屋因為現在央行現在這一波打房之後出現很多的狀態是很多銀行都說了銀根都不願意再放款出來喔\n\n09:42.132 --> 09:58.101\n會不會誤導又看各每個不同消費者的認知那主委這個部分我想說請主委這邊再跟我們內政部地政司這邊跟消保行政院消保處這邊的時候去做一個完整一點點的一個\n\n10:00.262 --> 10:02.484\n公平交易委員會對於預售銷售行為案件的處理原則裡面規範的沒有那麼樣的細緻所以我們希望\n\n10:19.673 --> 10:20.534\n最後一個部分就是針對\n\n10:38.937 --> 11:07.864\n建保就是醫療相關的一個掛號費這個部分的時候他算不算是一個聯合行為這一波很多都漲價了在相近的時間都漲價算不算聯合行為有沒有就有漲價是一個客觀事實我們會去看看他們橫向有沒有勾結談價他們肯定有開過會公會裡面肯定有開過會因為我看到你報告裡面針對很多公會的部分包括土木公會\n\n11:08.584 --> 11:08.884\n主席主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.173,"end":31.579,"text":"主席,我想請一下李美主委委員長主委好,那個詐騙廣告現在也是到公平會這邊那我想說詐騙廣告肯定是個不實廣告我們公平會對於整個所有的詐騙的那個相關的廣告相關的行為之前有沒有開出任何的罰則出來"},{"start":36.201,"end":62.491,"text":"我們對於不實廣告都有處罰你針對那個詐騙的部分尤其是有關於一些網路上詐騙的部分因為打詐是現在全民的公憤你把公平會在這個部分做了哪些事情到時候給本席一個書面資料完整的書面資料我們做了哪些相關的一個處罰那我接下來想問一下主任我想問一下你對目前國內的檢探政策"},{"start":63.371,"end":68.772,"text":"包括了碳費、碳權、碳中和還有碳盤查等等是不是很了解?"},{"start":69.501,"end":93.468,"text":"不敢說很瞭解但是有去關注都有關注嗎那因為上個禮拜四環境部發布了一個企業碳中和指引我不知道你知不知道這個事情我知道因為現在很多企業都宣稱自己的產品以達到碳中和但是因為沒有相關的標章消費者不知道說他們是真正的增綠"},{"start":94.468,"end":94.488,"text":"：鄭正鈐"},{"start":111.283,"end":113.765,"text":"請問主委我們公平會是不是準備好了要接環境部丟出來這個球我想這個跨機關的合作是應該的"},{"start":130.236,"end":144.346,"text":"環境部的指引是讓消費者知道什麼叫做碳中和碳排放跟碳移除加減之後要是零不足的時候怎麼去消底那現在就是說消費者或者是一般的企業他換稱我符合碳中和"},{"start":145.587,"end":169.078,"text":"環境部的指引主要是要他揭露清楚你是怎麼算的你排多少減多少我想問一個最基本的問題主委我想問一個最基本的問題因為跟碳有關的問題非常的多我想說講幾個小時候講不完我想國外碳權目前我們如何認定主委國外碳權因為碳中和裡面有一個部分一定是跟國外碳權會有關我們國外碳權目前如何認定"},{"start":171.119,"end":174.821,"text":"公平交易法21條這部分我想先問探權這部分因為我待會會再問到21條的事情因為像現在國際很多的一個探權的一個認證標準像VCS 像GS"},{"start":201.355,"end":222.964,"text":"目前我們國家都沒有認定可是像世界很多的大廠包括Apple他們包括通信他們都認定那我們怎麼去處理這個問題就公平會來講他宣稱他得到什麼認證不管是這個國際認可或不認可我們會跟環境部來"},{"start":224.962,"end":239.647,"text":"徵詢意見最主要就是說你說你得到哪裡的認證就必須是那裡的認證所以說跟環境部再去溝通這個部分那我目前可以接受這個狀態因為目前這個還在進行當中那我為什麼會問這個問題是因為我在上個會期我曾經問過了一個電信業者的合併案那麼我們公平會在去年就是通過兩個附帶條件的合併案"},{"start":253.331,"end":273.981,"text":"包括了就是遠傳病亞太去年的7月20號那麼包括了臺灣大哥大病臺灣之心去年的10月10號都有附帶條件那我當時也問了這個問題就是說他合併之後服務品質如果嚴重下降訊號網速都不穩定但上次主委你有回應我就說"},{"start":275.305,"end":296.836,"text":"您說NCC本身有一個觀測小組公平會會跟NCC保持溝通那我想問一下目前觀測的結果是怎麼樣子我想這兩個結合案在公平會我們會去關注他有沒有履行我們付的負擔至於他這個網路品質的監控我們也有就是NCC有沒有結果出來"},{"start":303.434,"end":325.445,"text":"退後再出來我先舉個例子給你這是消費者直接公佈出來的狀態這個其實是台灣之心被病怒台哥大之後那麼消費者用了一個臺大祭祀中心的一個軟體自己測出來的一個結果那其中下載的部分大概在1Mbps到5Mbps的速度"},{"start":326.465,"end":340.293,"text":"那上傳的部分在1Mbps到4Mbps左右的速度這直接大家在網路上公佈出來都很清楚那我想請問一下公平會就是主委你知道說我們正常手機4G的網路下載速度是多少嗎?"},{"start":342.912,"end":370.667,"text":"不是很清楚的掌握這一些不是很清楚所以上次我質詢之後你顯然沒有去follow整個電訊合併之後所產生那個狀態所以我今天在追問的時候請你沒有辦法回應出來像正常的時候40到70M是正常的一個情況在台北的時候不管在台灣在怎麼樣台北到70是很正常的台灣到處至少20M以上都是很基本的一個門檻可是你看"},{"start":374.068,"end":376.392,"text":"臺哥大變了臺灣之星之後只到1到5咩?這樣的狀態是不是有嚴重影響到消費者的權益?"},{"start":385.575,"end":413.648,"text":"若通訊品質沒有達到應該有的這個品質這是有消費者保護的問題所以公平會這邊是不是應該要出手要針對這個事情電信業者合併之後沒有達到他們該提供出來的消費品質公平會是不是應該要出手公平會在當時準結合的時候有一些負擔那這些負擔比較是從這個競爭秩序方面去談的那當然消費者的保護"},{"start":415.969,"end":438.547,"text":"競爭秩序是一塊沒有問題可是消費者保護一定是公平會很重要的一個目標成立公平會很重要的一個目標所以我希望針對這個部分主委你後續再去追蹤一下後續再給本席一個很清楚的一個報告好不好我會跟委員說明這個NCC的負擔跟我們的負擔差別在哪然後針對消費者權益的部分然後NCC這邊"},{"start":441.029,"end":462.84,"text":"顯然沒有很積極去處理這個事情那麼我們是要公平會這邊出手因為現在NCC其實也很亂那我想說針對這個部分再給本席一個完整的一個書面資料那我接下來還要再問一個你剛剛提到就是公平交易法第21條那我想問一下預售屋預售屋的不實廣告你怎麼認定"},{"start":464.367,"end":485.631,"text":"預售屋的不實廣告就是他廣告說他有什麼就要有什麼是所以基本上也是用公平交易法第21條對於有虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表徵基本上這是一個很重要的一個判斷標準對不對是是嗎OK那第42條直接表示說OK那他可以處5萬元到2500萬以下的一個罰款應該也是這樣的一個條件對不對是OK好我想問一個具體的一個個案"},{"start":494.182,"end":517.262,"text":"來 主委你看到這樣右邊這樣子的一個廣告的時候他說已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安信購屋華南銀行信託保證這樣的一個廣告的時候你覺得會不會誤導民眾我為什麼會提這個問題因為這個問題是在這一波央行打房之後還持續的廣告"},{"start":519.161,"end":538.963,"text":"如果他說有預留華南銀行的額度結果沒有這個就是不實廣告如果沒有的時候就不實廣告所以我們如果看到這個他說預留華南銀行貸款額度的時候那我們去買了房子到時候華南銀行沒有貸款給我們的時候這個建商就會出問題是這個意思嗎我的意思是說你廣告說什麼就要有什麼"},{"start":539.684,"end":568.013,"text":"所以我說你看嘛右邊這廣告已經預留華南銀行貸款額度安心購屋那這樣子算不算是一個不實廣告算不算有誤導民眾需要去查因為我們在看的是不實以至於誤導如果沒有不實就不會到誤導的問題那這樣子算不算不實主委你的專業你這樣直接看算不算不實是不是真的有華南銀行貸款是怎麼說的這個是需要了解的"},{"start":569.011,"end":579.841,"text":"那是不是會誤導民眾來做購屋因為現在央行現在這一波打房之後出現很多的狀態是很多銀行都說了銀根都不願意再放款出來喔"},{"start":582.132,"end":598.101,"text":"會不會誤導又看各每個不同消費者的認知那主委這個部分我想說請主委這邊再跟我們內政部地政司這邊跟消保行政院消保處這邊的時候去做一個完整一點點的一個"},{"start":600.262,"end":602.484,"text":"公平交易委員會對於預售銷售行為案件的處理原則裡面規範的沒有那麼樣的細緻所以我們希望"},{"start":619.673,"end":620.534,"text":"最後一個部分就是針對"},{"start":638.937,"end":667.864,"text":"建保就是醫療相關的一個掛號費這個部分的時候他算不算是一個聯合行為這一波很多都漲價了在相近的時間都漲價算不算聯合行為有沒有就有漲價是一個客觀事實我們會去看看他們橫向有沒有勾結談價他們肯定有開過會公會裡面肯定有開過會因為我看到你報告裡面針對很多公會的部分包括土木公會"},{"start":668.584,"end":668.884,"text":"主席主席"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:04:20 - 10:15:53","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154950,"gazette":{"lineno":334,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時4分）謝謝主席。我想請一下李鎂主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["鄭委員正鈐：主委好。詐騙廣告現在也是在公平會這邊，那詐騙廣告肯定是不實廣告嘛！公平會對於所有詐騙的相關廣告行為，之前有沒有開出任何的罰則出來？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們對於不實廣告都有處罰，幾乎每個月都有。"],["鄭委員正鈐：針對詐騙的部分，尤其是有關於一些網路上詐騙的部分，因為詐騙現在是全民公憤，你把公平會在打詐這個部分做了哪些事情、哪些相關的處罰，到時候給本席完整的書面資料。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：接下來想問一下，主委，你對目前國內的減碳政策，包括碳費、碳權、碳中和，還有碳盤查等等是不是很了解？"],["李主任委員鎂：不敢說很了解，但是有去關注。"],["鄭委員正鈐：都有關注嘛！因為上個禮拜四環境部發布了企業碳中和指引，不知道你知不知道這個事情？"],["李主任委員鎂：我知道。"],["鄭委員正鈐：現在很多企業都宣稱自己的產品已達到碳中和，但是因為沒有相關的標章，消費者不知道他們是真正的真綠，還是漂綠，不曉得是真綠的狀態，還是說是虛假的狀態。針對環境部公布的企業碳中和指引，施次長在記者會中直接點名公平會，說消費者如果誤信不實廣告，可以向公平會提出檢舉，然後由公平會來認定。請問主委，公平會是不是準備好了，要接環境部丟出來的球？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想跨機關的合作是應該的，環境部的這個指引是讓消費者知道什麼叫做碳中和，碳排放跟碳移除加減之後要是零，不足的時候怎麼去消抵。現在就是消費者或者是一般企業，它泛稱符合碳中和，環境部的指引主要是要它揭露清楚，它是怎麼算的、排多少、減多少，如果有不實，我們可以處理。"],["鄭委員正鈐：那我想問一個最基本的問題，主委，因為跟碳有關的問題非常多，講幾個小時都講不完，國外碳權目前如何認定？主委，國外碳權因為碳中和裡面有一個部分一定會跟國外碳權有關，我們國外碳權目前如何認定？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，碳權有一套很專業的認定，這個我不是那麼了解。但是就公平會來講，如果沒有符合所宣稱的內容，那公平交易法第二十一條可以處理不實廣告。"],["鄭委員正鈐：公平交易法第二十一條這部分，我想先問碳權，我待會會再問到第二十一條的事情，因為像現在國際很多碳權的認證標準，像VCS、GS，目前我們國家都沒有認定，可是像世界很多大廠，包括Apple等等，這些他們都認定，我們怎麼去處理這個問題？"],["李主任委員鎂：就公平會來講，它宣稱得到什麼認證，不管是國際認可或不認可，我們會跟環境部徵詢意見，最主要是你說你得到哪裡的認證就必須是那裡的認證。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以說要跟環境部再去溝通這個部分？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，我目前可以接受這個狀態，因為目前這個還在進行當中。我為什麼會問這個問題？是因為我在上個會期曾經問過了一個電信業者的合併案，公平會去年通過了兩個附帶條件的合併案，包括了遠傳併亞太在去年7月20號，也包括了台灣大哥大併台灣之星在去年10月10號，都有附帶條件，我當時也問了這個問題，就說合併之後，服務品質如果嚴重下降，訊號、網速都不穩定，但上次主委你有回應我，說NCC本身有一個觀測小組，公平會會跟NCC保持溝通，我想問一下目前觀測的結果是怎麼樣？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想這兩個結合案，在公平會我們會去關注它有沒有履行我們附的負擔，至於它的網路品質監控，我們也有就是NCC小組……"],["鄭委員正鈐：有沒有結果出來？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個可能會後還要再徵詢一下……"],["鄭委員正鈐：會後再出來？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我先舉一個例子給你，這是消費者直接公布出來的狀態，其實是台灣之星被併入台哥大之後，那麼消費者用了臺大計資中心的軟體，自己測出來的結果，其中下載的部分大概是在1Mbps到5Mbps的速度，上傳的部分在1Mbps到4Mbps左右的速度，這大家都在網路上直接公布出來都很清楚。我想請問一下公平會，主委，你知道我們正常手機4G的網路下載速度是多少嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：不是很清楚地掌握這些。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以上次我質詢之後，你顯然沒有去follow電信合併之後所產生的狀態，所以我今天在追問的時候，其實你沒有辦法回應出來，像正常的時候，40Mbps到70Mbps是正常的情況，不管臺灣再怎麼樣子，臺北到70Mbps是很正常的，臺灣到處至少20Mbps以上都是很基本的門檻，可是你看台哥大併台灣之星之後，只有1Mbps到5Mbps，這樣的狀態是不是有嚴重影響到消費者的權益，主委？"],["李主任委員鎂：如果通訊品質沒有達到應該有的品質，這是有消費者保護的問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以公平會這邊是不是應該要出手？針對這個事情，電信業者合併之後，沒有達到他們該提供出來的消費品質，公平會是不是應該要出手？"],["李主任委員鎂：公平會在當時准結合的時候有一些負擔，那這些負擔比較是從競爭秩序方面去談的，當然消費者的保護也是很重要的一環。"],["鄭委員正鈐：競爭秩序是一塊沒有問題，可是消費者保護一定是成立公平會很重要的目標，所以我希望針對這個部分，主委，你後續再去追蹤一下，再給本席一個很清楚的報告，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：好，我們會跟委員說明NCC的負擔跟我們的負擔差別在哪裡。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，然後針對消費者權益的部分，NCC顯然沒有很積極去處理這個事情，我們希望公平會出手，因為現在NCC其實也很亂，我想針對這個部分，再給本席一個完整的書面資料。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我接下來還要再問一個，你剛剛提到公平交易法第二十一條，我想問一下預售屋的不實廣告，你怎麼認定？"],["李主任委員鎂：有關預售屋的不實廣告，就是它廣告說它有什麼就要有什麼。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，所以基本上也是用公平交易法第二十一條，對於有虛偽不實或引人錯誤的表示或表徵，這是一個很重要的判斷標準，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是嘛，OK。第四十二條直接表示可以處五萬元到二千五百萬元以下的罰款，應該也是這樣的條件，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，好。我想問一個具體的個案，主委，你看到右邊這樣的廣告時，它說已經預留華南銀行貸款額度、安心購屋、華南銀行信託保證，這樣的廣告你覺得會不會誤導民眾？我為什麼會提這個問題？因為在這一波央行打房之後，還持續地廣告。"],["李主任委員鎂：如果它說有預留華南銀行的額度，結果沒有，這個就是不實廣告，這個額度高低……"],["鄭委員正鈐：如果沒有的話就是不實廣告，所以我們如果看到它說預留華南銀行貸款額度，而去買了房子，到時候華南銀行沒有貸款給我們，這個建商就會出問題，是這個意思嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：我的意思是說它廣告說什麼就要有什麼，所以我們處罰部分……"],["鄭委員正鈐：對，所以我說你看右邊這個廣告已經寫預留華南銀行貸款額度、安心購屋，這樣算不算是一個不實廣告、算不算有誤導民眾？"],["李主任委員鎂：需要去查，因為我們在看的是不實以致於誤導，如果沒有不實，就不會到誤導的問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：那這樣算不算不實？主委，以你的專業，你這樣直接看算不算不實？"],["李主任委員鎂：這個要去瞭解是不是真的有華南銀行貸款，它是怎麼說的，這個是需要瞭解的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，是不是會誤導民眾來購屋？因為在央行這一波打房之後，現在出現很多的狀態是很多銀行都縮了銀根，都不願意再放款出來。"],["李主任委員鎂：會不會誤導要看每個不同消費者的認知。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。主委，這個部分，我想請主委這邊再跟內政部地政司跟行政院消保處去做一個完整一點的修正規範，針對……"],["李主任委員鎂：就這個部分，我們可以去瞭解。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，因為我在想說，我們針對金融產品的不實廣告訂得非常清楚，可是公平交易委員會對於預售屋銷售行為案件的處理原則裡面沒有規範得那麼細緻，所以我們希望主委這邊跟內政部及消保處能夠好好去做溝通，把預售屋銷售行為的規範弄得更完整一點，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們一直都有做這樣的跨機關合作。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。最後一個部分就是針對健保、醫療相關的掛號費，它算不算是一個聯合行為？這一波很多都漲價了，在相近的時間都漲價了，算不算聯合行為？"],["李主任委員鎂：有漲價是一個客觀事實，我們會去看看他們橫向有沒有勾結談價，在今年3月公告……"],["鄭委員正鈐：他們肯定有開過會，公會裡面肯定有開過會，因為我看到在你的報告裡面針對很多公會的部分，包括土木公會，然後包括一些結構公會等等都有相關的部分，所以針對這個部分，希望主委這邊也多費點心，針對這個……"],["李主任委員鎂：我們一直都有注意。"],["鄭委員正鈐：針對掛號費的聯合行為部分，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，之後再給本席一個很完整的書面說明。"],["李主任委員鎂：好的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：謝謝。"],["主席（鄭委員正鈐代）：我們現在請呂玉玲召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","鍾佳濱","陳超明","洪孟楷","蔡易餘","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00001"}}}