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{\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 466.508, \"end\": 466.688, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 466.688, \"end\": 466.888, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 466.888, \"end\": 467.029, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"鴻\"}, {\"word\": \"薇\", \"start\": 467.029, \"end\": 467.169, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 467.169, \"end\": 467.329, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 467.329, \"end\": 467.489, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 467.489, \"end\": 467.509, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,329 --> 00:00:05,212\n請董次好好請董次本來想問部長但是董次也是專家好謝謝董次我想我們今天要處理這個都市更新條例所有的委員不管是來自台灣的哪一個地區都希望這個老舊的屋舍能夠加強它的更新速度\n\n2\n00:00:24,142 --> 00:00:53,324\n所以我想今天不管是行政院的提案版本亦或是我們剛剛聽到兩位委員的提案版本其實在文字上幾乎是一模一樣這樣的狀況所以相信我們大家對於在這個實施融資管制前以申請完成或以申請執照之合法建築物能夠放寬到這個部分我想應該是大家的共識所以等一下的修法希望能夠很快順利進行這是核心序名第一點\n\n3\n00:00:54,145 --> 00:00:56,366\n但是如果我們要講到這個都市更新這個其實大家現在新聞最近應該是因為熱門新聞的關係我們會看到很多的人機率的相關問題那我比較好奇的是這個吳興休吳署長這邊您的國土署這邊出了一份函\n\n4\n00:01:17,498 --> 00:01:37,707\n那所以被外界引誘為這個現在最熱門的京華城的爭議這邊竟然是說是由國土署出了函證明這件事情它的京華城的容積率是合法的我想聽聽看吳署長及董事內政部的國土署這邊你們對這封函的解釋是這樣嗎?你們已經就個案認為它合法了嗎?來請說明\n\n5\n00:01:46,874 --> 00:02:07,098\n感謝委員那其實那一天最主要大概在詢問的是有關容積率訂定的部分是那所以我們會把整個全國性的容積率獎勵的政策去做一個說明你們被詢問的是都市計畫容積管制及獎勵容積法源中央及地方法規事宜嗎\n\n6\n00:02:08,699 --> 00:02:21,866\n對,所以我們當然是希望因為從中央到地方都優先以訂定法規所以第一你希望中央跟地方都訂定法規對,所以是訂定在地方就當然是屬於都市計畫的適應細則\n\n7\n00:02:23,667 --> 00:02:26,488\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n8\n00:02:45,213 --> 00:02:59,660\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n\n9\n00:03:14,927 --> 00:03:15,727\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n10\n00:03:32,133 --> 00:03:46,026\n你認為確實因為一個大的都市計劃法下去之後要到各個地方要因地方質疑所以可以有台灣省的都市計劃實施細則但直轄市就由直轄市來訂定沒有錯由直轄市來訂定那麼我想請問現在直轄市哪一個我們這這麼多個台灣這麼多個直轄市裡面哪幾個有訂哪幾個沒訂\n\n11\n00:03:56,375 --> 00:04:21,009\n其實現在就是各個職業市都有細則那台北市是屬於自治條例跟細則都有那所以都是分別要求他們在裡面去訂定這才叫做全市一體適用那你這邊也要求了各個地方政府要自行訂定之後其實你的六和七你應該把它寫得更清楚一點啊你的第六項和第七項、第六項\n\n12\n00:04:23,666 --> 00:04:37,692\n第七項裡面其實寫得很清楚啊是我們整個都市要能夠發展一定要有一個大的框架整體來規劃一個城市規劃了之後即便在城市裡面分區也會有分區的都市計畫沒錯然後你在分區的都市計畫下面\n\n13\n00:04:44,935 --> 00:04:55,685\n你才可以就每一個案件去決定它的樣態包括它的容積率上限等等所以導回來每一件個案不應該超越分區的計畫更不應該超越整個都市的計畫我的理解應該是這樣沒有錯吧\n\n14\n00:05:00,549 --> 00:05:17,566\n都是應該我們的第六段特別有講要回歸尚未計劃人因回歸嘛對對而且要符合細則的規定所以是在第六段有了一個因字其實你已經寫得很客氣了第六段寫人因第七段寫避免你在寫得太客氣了有時候人家看不見啦\n\n15\n00:05:20,869 --> 00:05:31,996\n對啊第七段你既然第六段是人應回歸第七段就寫不應啊不應該是個案這樣就不會有差別不會有解釋的空間了嘛不然現在媒體把你解釋說國土署出了一個函說這個個案是合理的是合法的我感覺這樣不會通啦並沒有嘛所以今天在這裡給你一點時間就這件案件特別去澄清所以你的態度是這樣嘛沒錯\n\n16\n00:05:49,688 --> 00:06:09,454\n對,董事,內政部的態度也是一樣嗎?對,我們不針對個案解釋,我們只希望都市的發展應該有一個總量的管制。好,我也沒有就這個個案有比你更多的了解,但是我從一個立法委員在看整個中央法規和地方之間,中央地方的關係來講,我想最後我應該下一個結論啦,那\n\n17\n00:06:11,135 --> 00:06:34,013\n都市計劃確實是非常的重要影響一個城市的發展所以我想內政部你們是不是應該要能夠督促除了你們自己管轄的台灣所謂的台灣省就是其他各縣市之外直轄市政府要怎麼去制定施行施責或自治條例要在裡面要規定通案原則我想這個是應該你們作為督導的單位應該要下去盤整並且如果還沒有制定的就應該要求他們趕快制定吧\n\n18\n00:06:41,658 --> 00:07:05,844\n可以加速處理那你大概什麼時候會完成這個檢核檢視並且下指令要求我們會在一個月內就把它全部確認清楚好一個月之內全部確認清楚每個直轄市是不是有適當的在施行施責或自治條例內訂定了這個通案原則一個月之內請提交報告到我們這個給我們辦公室甚至是內政委員會好這是第一個部分\n\n19\n00:07:06,884 --> 00:07:09,847\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n20\n00:07:28,001 --> 00:07:45,249\n也開了會針對之前的幾項缺失您做了調整那我想請問這個政策方向如果改變要能夠直接上路的話應該要有要點訂定吧是董事什麼時候要點可以出來因為方向很好啊你也都支持啦我們在半年內就會完成\n\n21\n00:07:46,348 --> 00:07:47,509\n三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t5212\t請董次好好請董次本來想問部長但是董次也是專家好謝謝董次我想我們今天要處理這個都市更新條例所有的委員不管是來自台灣的哪一個地區都希望這個老舊的屋舍能夠加強它的更新速度\n24142\t53324\t所以我想今天不管是行政院的提案版本亦或是我們剛剛聽到兩位委員的提案版本其實在文字上幾乎是一模一樣這樣的狀況所以相信我們大家對於在這個實施融資管制前以申請完成或以申請執照之合法建築物能夠放寬到這個部分我想應該是大家的共識所以等一下的修法希望能夠很快順利進行這是核心序名第一點\n54145\t56366\t但是如果我們要講到這個都市更新這個其實大家現在新聞最近應該是因為熱門新聞的關係我們會看到很多的人機率的相關問題那我比較好奇的是這個吳興休吳署長這邊您的國土署這邊出了一份函\n77498\t97707\t那所以被外界引誘為這個現在最熱門的京華城的爭議這邊竟然是說是由國土署出了函證明這件事情它的京華城的容積率是合法的我想聽聽看吳署長及董事內政部的國土署這邊你們對這封函的解釋是這樣嗎?你們已經就個案認為它合法了嗎?來請說明\n106874\t127098\t感謝委員那其實那一天最主要大概在詢問的是有關容積率訂定的部分是那所以我們會把整個全國性的容積率獎勵的政策去做一個說明你們被詢問的是都市計畫容積管制及獎勵容積法源中央及地方法規事宜嗎\n128699\t141866\t對,所以我們當然是希望因為從中央到地方都優先以訂定法規所以第一你希望中央跟地方都訂定法規對,所以是訂定在地方就當然是屬於都市計畫的適應細則\n143667\t146488\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n165213\t179660\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n194927\t195727\t二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n212133\t226026\t你認為確實因為一個大的都市計劃法下去之後要到各個地方要因地方質疑所以可以有台灣省的都市計劃實施細則但直轄市就由直轄市來訂定沒有錯由直轄市來訂定那麼我想請問現在直轄市哪一個我們這這麼多個台灣這麼多個直轄市裡面哪幾個有訂哪幾個沒訂\n236375\t261009\t其實現在就是各個職業市都有細則那台北市是屬於自治條例跟細則都有那所以都是分別要求他們在裡面去訂定這才叫做全市一體適用那你這邊也要求了各個地方政府要自行訂定之後其實你的六和七你應該把它寫得更清楚一點啊你的第六項和第七項、第六項\n263666\t277692\t第七項裡面其實寫得很清楚啊是我們整個都市要能夠發展一定要有一個大的框架整體來規劃一個城市規劃了之後即便在城市裡面分區也會有分區的都市計畫沒錯然後你在分區的都市計畫下面\n284935\t295685\t你才可以就每一個案件去決定它的樣態包括它的容積率上限等等所以導回來每一件個案不應該超越分區的計畫更不應該超越整個都市的計畫我的理解應該是這樣沒有錯吧\n300549\t317566\t都是應該我們的第六段特別有講要回歸尚未計劃人因回歸嘛對對而且要符合細則的規定所以是在第六段有了一個因字其實你已經寫得很客氣了第六段寫人因第七段寫避免你在寫得太客氣了有時候人家看不見啦\n320869\t331996\t對啊第七段你既然第六段是人應回歸第七段就寫不應啊不應該是個案這樣就不會有差別不會有解釋的空間了嘛不然現在媒體把你解釋說國土署出了一個函說這個個案是合理的是合法的我感覺這樣不會通啦並沒有嘛所以今天在這裡給你一點時間就這件案件特別去澄清所以你的態度是這樣嘛沒錯\n349688\t369454\t對,董事,內政部的態度也是一樣嗎?對,我們不針對個案解釋,我們只希望都市的發展應該有一個總量的管制。好,我也沒有就這個個案有比你更多的了解,但是我從一個立法委員在看整個中央法規和地方之間,中央地方的關係來講,我想最後我應該下一個結論啦,那\n371135\t394013\t都市計劃確實是非常的重要影響一個城市的發展所以我想內政部你們是不是應該要能夠督促除了你們自己管轄的台灣所謂的台灣省就是其他各縣市之外直轄市政府要怎麼去制定施行施責或自治條例要在裡面要規定通案原則我想這個是應該你們作為督導的單位應該要下去盤整並且如果還沒有制定的就應該要求他們趕快制定吧\n401658\t425844\t可以加速處理那你大概什麼時候會完成這個檢核檢視並且下指令要求我們會在一個月內就把它全部確認清楚好一個月之內全部確認清楚每個直轄市是不是有適當的在施行施責或自治條例內訂定了這個通案原則一個月之內請提交報告到我們這個給我們辦公室甚至是內政委員會好這是第一個部分\n426884\t429847\t第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n448001\t465249\t也開了會針對之前的幾項缺失您做了調整那我想請問這個政策方向如果改變要能夠直接上路的話應該要有要點訂定吧是董事什麼時候要點可以出來因為方向很好啊你也都支持啦我們在半年內就會完成\n466348\t467509\t三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n","txt":"請董次好好請董次本來想問部長但是董次也是專家好謝謝董次我想我們今天要處理這個都市更新條例所有的委員不管是來自台灣的哪一個地區都希望這個老舊的屋舍能夠加強它的更新速度\n所以我想今天不管是行政院的提案版本亦或是我們剛剛聽到兩位委員的提案版本其實在文字上幾乎是一模一樣這樣的狀況所以相信我們大家對於在這個實施融資管制前以申請完成或以申請執照之合法建築物能夠放寬到這個部分我想應該是大家的共識所以等一下的修法希望能夠很快順利進行這是核心序名第一點\n但是如果我們要講到這個都市更新這個其實大家現在新聞最近應該是因為熱門新聞的關係我們會看到很多的人機率的相關問題那我比較好奇的是這個吳興休吳署長這邊您的國土署這邊出了一份函\n那所以被外界引誘為這個現在最熱門的京華城的爭議這邊竟然是說是由國土署出了函證明這件事情它的京華城的容積率是合法的我想聽聽看吳署長及董事內政部的國土署這邊你們對這封函的解釋是這樣嗎?你們已經就個案認為它合法了嗎?來請說明\n感謝委員那其實那一天最主要大概在詢問的是有關容積率訂定的部分是那所以我們會把整個全國性的容積率獎勵的政策去做一個說明你們被詢問的是都市計畫容積管制及獎勵容積法源中央及地方法規事宜嗎\n對,所以我們當然是希望因為從中央到地方都優先以訂定法規所以第一你希望中央跟地方都訂定法規對,所以是訂定在地方就當然是屬於都市計畫的適應細則\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n你認為確實因為一個大的都市計劃法下去之後要到各個地方要因地方質疑所以可以有台灣省的都市計劃實施細則但直轄市就由直轄市來訂定沒有錯由直轄市來訂定那麼我想請問現在直轄市哪一個我們這這麼多個台灣這麼多個直轄市裡面哪幾個有訂哪幾個沒訂\n其實現在就是各個職業市都有細則那台北市是屬於自治條例跟細則都有那所以都是分別要求他們在裡面去訂定這才叫做全市一體適用那你這邊也要求了各個地方政府要自行訂定之後其實你的六和七你應該把它寫得更清楚一點啊你的第六項和第七項、第六項\n第七項裡面其實寫得很清楚啊是我們整個都市要能夠發展一定要有一個大的框架整體來規劃一個城市規劃了之後即便在城市裡面分區也會有分區的都市計畫沒錯然後你在分區的都市計畫下面\n你才可以就每一個案件去決定它的樣態包括它的容積率上限等等所以導回來每一件個案不應該超越分區的計畫更不應該超越整個都市的計畫我的理解應該是這樣沒有錯吧\n都是應該我們的第六段特別有講要回歸尚未計劃人因回歸嘛對對而且要符合細則的規定所以是在第六段有了一個因字其實你已經寫得很客氣了第六段寫人因第七段寫避免你在寫得太客氣了有時候人家看不見啦\n對啊第七段你既然第六段是人應回歸第七段就寫不應啊不應該是個案這樣就不會有差別不會有解釋的空間了嘛不然現在媒體把你解釋說國土署出了一個函說這個個案是合理的是合法的我感覺這樣不會通啦並沒有嘛所以今天在這裡給你一點時間就這件案件特別去澄清所以你的態度是這樣嘛沒錯\n對,董事,內政部的態度也是一樣嗎?對,我們不針對個案解釋,我們只希望都市的發展應該有一個總量的管制。好,我也沒有就這個個案有比你更多的了解,但是我從一個立法委員在看整個中央法規和地方之間,中央地方的關係來講,我想最後我應該下一個結論啦,那\n都市計劃確實是非常的重要影響一個城市的發展所以我想內政部你們是不是應該要能夠督促除了你們自己管轄的台灣所謂的台灣省就是其他各縣市之外直轄市政府要怎麼去制定施行施責或自治條例要在裡面要規定通案原則我想這個是應該你們作為督導的單位應該要下去盤整並且如果還沒有制定的就應該要求他們趕快制定吧\n可以加速處理那你大概什麼時候會完成這個檢核檢視並且下指令要求我們會在一個月內就把它全部確認清楚好一個月之內全部確認清楚每個直轄市是不是有適當的在施行施責或自治條例內訂定了這個通案原則一個月之內請提交報告到我們這個給我們辦公室甚至是內政委員會好這是第一個部分\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n也開了會針對之前的幾項缺失您做了調整那我想請問這個政策方向如果改變要能夠直接上路的話應該要有要點訂定吧是董事什麼時候要點可以出來因為方向很好啊你也都支持啦我們在半年內就會完成\n三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:05.212\n請董次好好請董次本來想問部長但是董次也是專家好謝謝董次我想我們今天要處理這個都市更新條例所有的委員不管是來自台灣的哪一個地區都希望這個老舊的屋舍能夠加強它的更新速度\n\n00:24.142 --> 00:53.324\n所以我想今天不管是行政院的提案版本亦或是我們剛剛聽到兩位委員的提案版本其實在文字上幾乎是一模一樣這樣的狀況所以相信我們大家對於在這個實施融資管制前以申請完成或以申請執照之合法建築物能夠放寬到這個部分我想應該是大家的共識所以等一下的修法希望能夠很快順利進行這是核心序名第一點\n\n00:54.145 --> 00:56.366\n但是如果我們要講到這個都市更新這個其實大家現在新聞最近應該是因為熱門新聞的關係我們會看到很多的人機率的相關問題那我比較好奇的是這個吳興休吳署長這邊您的國土署這邊出了一份函\n\n01:17.498 --> 01:37.707\n那所以被外界引誘為這個現在最熱門的京華城的爭議這邊竟然是說是由國土署出了函證明這件事情它的京華城的容積率是合法的我想聽聽看吳署長及董事內政部的國土署這邊你們對這封函的解釋是這樣嗎?你們已經就個案認為它合法了嗎?來請說明\n\n01:46.874 --> 02:07.098\n感謝委員那其實那一天最主要大概在詢問的是有關容積率訂定的部分是那所以我們會把整個全國性的容積率獎勵的政策去做一個說明你們被詢問的是都市計畫容積管制及獎勵容積法源中央及地方法規事宜嗎\n\n02:08.699 --> 02:21.866\n對,所以我們當然是希望因為從中央到地方都優先以訂定法規所以第一你希望中央跟地方都訂定法規對,所以是訂定在地方就當然是屬於都市計畫的適應細則\n\n02:23.667 --> 02:26.488\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n02:45.213 --> 02:59.660\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團\n\n03:14.927 --> 03:15.727\n二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n03:32.133 --> 03:46.026\n你認為確實因為一個大的都市計劃法下去之後要到各個地方要因地方質疑所以可以有台灣省的都市計劃實施細則但直轄市就由直轄市來訂定沒有錯由直轄市來訂定那麼我想請問現在直轄市哪一個我們這這麼多個台灣這麼多個直轄市裡面哪幾個有訂哪幾個沒訂\n\n03:56.375 --> 04:21.009\n其實現在就是各個職業市都有細則那台北市是屬於自治條例跟細則都有那所以都是分別要求他們在裡面去訂定這才叫做全市一體適用那你這邊也要求了各個地方政府要自行訂定之後其實你的六和七你應該把它寫得更清楚一點啊你的第六項和第七項、第六項\n\n04:23.666 --> 04:37.692\n第七項裡面其實寫得很清楚啊是我們整個都市要能夠發展一定要有一個大的框架整體來規劃一個城市規劃了之後即便在城市裡面分區也會有分區的都市計畫沒錯然後你在分區的都市計畫下面\n\n04:44.935 --> 04:55.685\n你才可以就每一個案件去決定它的樣態包括它的容積率上限等等所以導回來每一件個案不應該超越分區的計畫更不應該超越整個都市的計畫我的理解應該是這樣沒有錯吧\n\n05:00.549 --> 05:17.566\n都是應該我們的第六段特別有講要回歸尚未計劃人因回歸嘛對對而且要符合細則的規定所以是在第六段有了一個因字其實你已經寫得很客氣了第六段寫人因第七段寫避免你在寫得太客氣了有時候人家看不見啦\n\n05:20.869 --> 05:31.996\n對啊第七段你既然第六段是人應回歸第七段就寫不應啊不應該是個案這樣就不會有差別不會有解釋的空間了嘛不然現在媒體把你解釋說國土署出了一個函說這個個案是合理的是合法的我感覺這樣不會通啦並沒有嘛所以今天在這裡給你一點時間就這件案件特別去澄清所以你的態度是這樣嘛沒錯\n\n05:49.688 --> 06:09.454\n對,董事,內政部的態度也是一樣嗎?對,我們不針對個案解釋,我們只希望都市的發展應該有一個總量的管制。好,我也沒有就這個個案有比你更多的了解,但是我從一個立法委員在看整個中央法規和地方之間,中央地方的關係來講,我想最後我應該下一個結論啦,那\n\n06:11.135 --> 06:34.013\n都市計劃確實是非常的重要影響一個城市的發展所以我想內政部你們是不是應該要能夠督促除了你們自己管轄的台灣所謂的台灣省就是其他各縣市之外直轄市政府要怎麼去制定施行施責或自治條例要在裡面要規定通案原則我想這個是應該你們作為督導的單位應該要下去盤整並且如果還沒有制定的就應該要求他們趕快制定吧\n\n06:41.658 --> 07:05.844\n可以加速處理那你大概什麼時候會完成這個檢核檢視並且下指令要求我們會在一個月內就把它全部確認清楚好一個月之內全部確認清楚每個直轄市是不是有適當的在施行施責或自治條例內訂定了這個通案原則一個月之內請提交報告到我們這個給我們辦公室甚至是內政委員會好這是第一個部分\n\n07:06.884 --> 07:09.847\n第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署\n\n07:28.001 --> 07:45.249\n也開了會針對之前的幾項缺失您做了調整那我想請問這個政策方向如果改變要能夠直接上路的話應該要有要點訂定吧是董事什麼時候要點可以出來因為方向很好啊你也都支持啦我們在半年內就會完成\n\n07:46.348 --> 07:47.509\n三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":5.212,"text":"請董次好好請董次本來想問部長但是董次也是專家好謝謝董次我想我們今天要處理這個都市更新條例所有的委員不管是來自台灣的哪一個地區都希望這個老舊的屋舍能夠加強它的更新速度"},{"start":24.142,"end":53.324,"text":"所以我想今天不管是行政院的提案版本亦或是我們剛剛聽到兩位委員的提案版本其實在文字上幾乎是一模一樣這樣的狀況所以相信我們大家對於在這個實施融資管制前以申請完成或以申請執照之合法建築物能夠放寬到這個部分我想應該是大家的共識所以等一下的修法希望能夠很快順利進行這是核心序名第一點"},{"start":54.145,"end":56.366,"text":"但是如果我們要講到這個都市更新這個其實大家現在新聞最近應該是因為熱門新聞的關係我們會看到很多的人機率的相關問題那我比較好奇的是這個吳興休吳署長這邊您的國土署這邊出了一份函"},{"start":77.498,"end":97.707,"text":"那所以被外界引誘為這個現在最熱門的京華城的爭議這邊竟然是說是由國土署出了函證明這件事情它的京華城的容積率是合法的我想聽聽看吳署長及董事內政部的國土署這邊你們對這封函的解釋是這樣嗎?你們已經就個案認為它合法了嗎?來請說明"},{"start":106.874,"end":127.098,"text":"感謝委員那其實那一天最主要大概在詢問的是有關容積率訂定的部分是那所以我們會把整個全國性的容積率獎勵的政策去做一個說明你們被詢問的是都市計畫容積管制及獎勵容積法源中央及地方法規事宜嗎"},{"start":128.699,"end":141.866,"text":"對,所以我們當然是希望因為從中央到地方都優先以訂定法規所以第一你希望中央跟地方都訂定法規對,所以是訂定在地方就當然是屬於都市計畫的適應細則"},{"start":143.667,"end":146.488,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具第六十五條條文修正草案案。三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"},{"start":165.213,"end":179.66,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團簽署第三案如未經各黨團"},{"start":194.927,"end":195.727,"text":"二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"},{"start":212.133,"end":226.026,"text":"你認為確實因為一個大的都市計劃法下去之後要到各個地方要因地方質疑所以可以有台灣省的都市計劃實施細則但直轄市就由直轄市來訂定沒有錯由直轄市來訂定那麼我想請問現在直轄市哪一個我們這這麼多個台灣這麼多個直轄市裡面哪幾個有訂哪幾個沒訂"},{"start":236.375,"end":261.009,"text":"其實現在就是各個職業市都有細則那台北市是屬於自治條例跟細則都有那所以都是分別要求他們在裡面去訂定這才叫做全市一體適用那你這邊也要求了各個地方政府要自行訂定之後其實你的六和七你應該把它寫得更清楚一點啊你的第六項和第七項、第六項"},{"start":263.666,"end":277.692,"text":"第七項裡面其實寫得很清楚啊是我們整個都市要能夠發展一定要有一個大的框架整體來規劃一個城市規劃了之後即便在城市裡面分區也會有分區的都市計畫沒錯然後你在分區的都市計畫下面"},{"start":284.935,"end":295.685,"text":"你才可以就每一個案件去決定它的樣態包括它的容積率上限等等所以導回來每一件個案不應該超越分區的計畫更不應該超越整個都市的計畫我的理解應該是這樣沒有錯吧"},{"start":300.549,"end":317.566,"text":"都是應該我們的第六段特別有講要回歸尚未計劃人因回歸嘛對對而且要符合細則的規定所以是在第六段有了一個因字其實你已經寫得很客氣了第六段寫人因第七段寫避免你在寫得太客氣了有時候人家看不見啦"},{"start":320.869,"end":331.996,"text":"對啊第七段你既然第六段是人應回歸第七段就寫不應啊不應該是個案這樣就不會有差別不會有解釋的空間了嘛不然現在媒體把你解釋說國土署出了一個函說這個個案是合理的是合法的我感覺這樣不會通啦並沒有嘛所以今天在這裡給你一點時間就這件案件特別去澄清所以你的態度是這樣嘛沒錯"},{"start":349.688,"end":369.454,"text":"對,董事,內政部的態度也是一樣嗎?對,我們不針對個案解釋,我們只希望都市的發展應該有一個總量的管制。好,我也沒有就這個個案有比你更多的了解,但是我從一個立法委員在看整個中央法規和地方之間,中央地方的關係來講,我想最後我應該下一個結論啦,那"},{"start":371.135,"end":394.013,"text":"都市計劃確實是非常的重要影響一個城市的發展所以我想內政部你們是不是應該要能夠督促除了你們自己管轄的台灣所謂的台灣省就是其他各縣市之外直轄市政府要怎麼去制定施行施責或自治條例要在裡面要規定通案原則我想這個是應該你們作為督導的單位應該要下去盤整並且如果還沒有制定的就應該要求他們趕快制定吧"},{"start":401.658,"end":425.844,"text":"可以加速處理那你大概什麼時候會完成這個檢核檢視並且下指令要求我們會在一個月內就把它全部確認清楚好一個月之內全部確認清楚每個直轄市是不是有適當的在施行施責或自治條例內訂定了這個通案原則一個月之內請提交報告到我們這個給我們辦公室甚至是內政委員會好這是第一個部分"},{"start":426.884,"end":429.847,"text":"第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署第二案如未經各黨團簽署"},{"start":448.001,"end":465.249,"text":"也開了會針對之前的幾項缺失您做了調整那我想請問這個政策方向如果改變要能夠直接上路的話應該要有要點訂定吧是董事什麼時候要點可以出來因為方向很好啊你也都支持啦我們在半年內就會完成"},{"start":466.348,"end":467.509,"text":"三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"09:15:20 - 09:23:37","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。【第一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【9月30日、10月2日及3日三天一次會】）","id":154951,"gazette":{"lineno":66,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時15分）謝謝主席，我們請董次。謝謝董次。"],["主席：請董次。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我本來想問部長，但是董次也是專家。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我們今天要處理都市更新條例，所有的委員不管是來自臺灣的哪一個地區都希望老舊的屋舍能夠加強更新速度，所以今天不管是行政院的提案版本，抑或是我們剛剛聽到兩位委員的提案版本，其實在文字上幾乎是一模一樣的狀況，相信我們大家對於在實施容積管制前已申請完成或已申請建造執照之合法建築物，能夠放寬到這個部分，我想應該是大家的共識，所以等一下的修法希望能夠很快順利進行，這是合先敘明第一點。","但是如果講到都市更新，最近因為是熱門新聞的關係，我們會看到很多容積率的相關問題，我比較好奇的是，吳欣修署長所屬的國土署出了一份函，所以被外界引用為現在最熱門的京華城爭議，竟然說是由國土署出了函，證明京華城容積率這件事情是合法的，我想聽聽看吳署長、董次及內政部國土署，你們對這封函的解釋是這樣嗎？你們已經就個案認為它合法了嗎？請說明。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，其實那一天最主要在詢問的是有關容積率訂定的部分，所以我們會把整個全國性的容積率獎勵的政策去做一個說明。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你們被詢問的是「都市計畫容積管制及獎勵容積法源」中央及地方法規釋疑嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以我們當然是希望，因為從中央到地方都優先以訂定法規……"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以你希望中央跟地方都訂定法規？"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以在地方當然是屬於都市計畫的施行細則，或是地方對於都市計畫法規有所謂的自治條例，這個就是優先，因為它才會叫做全市一體適用，而不是就單一個案來訂定。"],["蘇委員巧慧：因為我只有5分鐘加2分鐘的時間，你可不可以簡單解釋一下，你出的這份函一共長達3頁有七大項，這裡面的主旨重點到底是什麼？"],["吳署長欣修：主旨重點當然是把過去到現在所謂的容積率獎勵訂定作業以及中間監察院糾正的方向予以釐清。"],["蘇委員巧慧：第一個講歷史脈絡。然後呢？"],["吳署長欣修：對。第二個就是希望各縣市政府能夠依照中央的要求，去分別訂定相關的細則或是自治條例，去把它訂在內，最後一段再特別聲明這個部分不宜再去由個案來自行訂定。"],["蘇委員巧慧：署長，我也很認真地讀了你這份函的七大項，我同意函裡面所講的，重點就是第一，你講的都市計畫的歷史脈絡；第二，你認為確實因為一個大的都市計畫法下去之後到各個地方要因地方制宜，所以可以有臺灣省的都市計畫實施細則，但直轄市就由直轄市來訂定。沒有錯，由直轄市來訂定，我想請問現在臺灣這麼多個直轄市裡面，哪幾個有訂，哪幾個沒訂？"],["吳署長欣修：其實現在各個直轄市都有細則，臺北市是屬於自治條例和細則都有，所以都是分別要求他們在裡面去訂定，這才叫全市一體適用。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你這邊也要求了各個地方政府要自行訂定之後，其實你在第六項和第七項應該要把它寫得更清楚一點，第七項裡面其實寫得很清楚，整個都市要能夠發展，一定要有一個大的框架來整體規劃，一個城市規劃了之後，即便在城市裡面分區也會有分區的都市計畫。"],["吳署長欣修：沒錯。"],["蘇委員巧慧：然後你在分區的都市計畫下面才可以就每一個案件去決定它的樣態，包括它的容積率上限等等，所以倒回來，每一件個案不應該超越分區的計畫，更不應該超越整個都市的計畫，我的理解應該是這樣，沒有錯吧？"],["吳署長欣修：都是應該，我們的第六段特別有講都要回歸上位計畫。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啊，「仍應回歸」。"],["吳署長欣修：對，而且要符合細則的規定。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以在第六段有一個「應」字，其實你已經寫得很客氣了，第六段寫「仍應」，第七段寫「避免」，你寫得太客氣，有時候人家看不懂，既然第六段是「仍應回歸」，第七段就寫「不應」，不應該視個案，這樣就不會有差別，不會有再解釋的空間了，不然現在媒體把你解釋成國土署出了一個函說這個個案是合理的、是合法的，我覺得這樣不通啦！"],["吳署長欣修：並沒有，從來都……"],["蘇委員巧慧：並沒有嘛！所以今天在這裡給你一點時間，就這件案件特別去澄清，所以你的態度是這樣嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：沒錯。"],["蘇委員巧慧：董次長，內政部的態度也是一樣嗎？"],["董次長建宏：對，我們不針對個案解釋，我們只希望都市的發展應該要有一個總量的管制。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我也沒有就這個個案有比你更多的瞭解，但是我從一個立法委員在看整個中央法規和地方之間，中央、地方的關係來講，我想最後我應該下一個結論：都市計畫確實是非常重要，影響一個城市的發展，所以內政部是不是應該要能夠督促，除了你們自己管轄的所謂的臺灣省，也就是其他各縣市之外，直轄市政府要怎麼去制定施行細則或自治條例，要在裡面規定通案原則，我想這個你們作為督導的單位應該要下去盤整，並且如果還沒有制定的，就應該要要求他們趕快制定吧！"],["董次長建宏：會，我們會加速處理。"],["蘇委員巧慧：可以加速喔？那你大概什麼時候會完成檢核、檢視，並且下指令要求？"],["吳署長欣修：我們會在1個月內就把它全部確認清楚。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，1個月之內全部確認清楚，每個直轄市是不是有適當的在施行細則或自治條例內訂定通案原則，1個月之內請提交報告給我們辦公室，甚至是內政委員會。"],["董次長建宏：好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這是第一個部分，謝謝吳署長，您可以回座。","第二個部分的話，我也特別要再請董次，上次在5月的時候，我也是質詢您，很感謝您有告訴我們都市更新事業的優惠貸款，您願意做一個調整嘛！對不對？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：也開了會，針對之前的幾項缺失，您做了調整。那我想請問這個政策方向如果改變，要能夠直接上路的話，應該要有要點訂定吧？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：董次，什麼時候要點可以出來？因為方向很好，你也都支持啦！"],["董次長建宏：我們在半年內就會完成。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是開完會的半年，不能從今天起算半年吧！這樣又差兩個月了。"],["董次長建宏：好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：3個月啦！3個月之內提出要點，你方向都已經有了嘛！3個月之內啦！好不好？董次。"],["董次長建宏：好，沒問題。"],["蘇委員巧慧：都市更新的貸款要點既然已經有修正方向了，麻煩在3個月之內把要點訂定出來。"],["董次長建宏：好，沒問題。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝董次。"],["董次長建宏：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。我們請麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","speakers":["張宏陸","李彥秀","王鴻薇","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","丁學忠","王美惠","黃捷","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","張智倫","李坤城","黃健豪","徐巧芯","羅智強","張啓楷","邱志偉","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王鴻薇等\n20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市\n更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137801_00010"}}}