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554.124, \"end\": 554.224, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 554.224, \"end\": 554.304, \"score\": 0.186}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 554.304, \"end\": 554.324, \"score\": 0.991}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,329 --> 00:00:15,732\n呃我們先來請一下呂玉玲召委謝謝主席請你主委請你主委委員好\n\n2\n00:00:16,365 --> 00:00:44,642\n主委公平會要負擔者就是我們整個社會我們所有的相關各行各業在這個市場這個平台上有任何不公的地方我們的公平會就要站出來主動站出來主持公道讓我們所有的大眾不要受到其害但是從早上到現在我一直聽到公平會永遠是被動撇清責任\n\n3\n00:00:45,883 --> 00:00:57,718\n見報了到司法單位了還跟你們沒關係除非判決出來你們才承認這個是有問題的什麼叫做有問題只要有受害者就有問題對不對\n\n4\n00:01:00,650 --> 00:01:20,388\n有時候可能就是有違反法令的行為主委為什麼早上這麼多委員大家都會比較激動的來問你就是你一直不聚焦委員問你的問題你都一直在答非所問我就給你再聚焦一下請問\n\n5\n00:01:23,717 --> 00:01:38,558\n主委根據我們的數字統計報告這個UberEats跟他是一個獨佔的一個市場那將近有八成的這個外送市場但是他在這個五月份的時候他宣布了他要\n\n6\n00:01:39,459 --> 00:01:44,260\n社會大眾緊張他們為什麼緊張我不知道公平會了不了解但是他們如果合併的話一定會影響市場上的結構\n\n7\n00:02:04,665 --> 00:02:27,999\n公平會你們態度跟立場而言你們對於獨佔的這個市場他們會不會在整個市場上面的你一直講的就是說這個限制的這個制度跟這個方面齁但是限制競爭這方面會不會影響其他競爭者的競爭因為他是第一大他是第二大他獨佔這個市場\n\n8\n00:02:29,901 --> 00:02:36,641\n合併之後的話其他市場有沒有能力跟他競爭就是限制競爭的這有沒有達到限制競爭\n\n9\n00:02:38,823 --> 00:03:02,331\n會不會整個市場的競爭結構的改變還有他市佔率的改變我已經告訴你他是第一名第二名這兩個合併起來不是大怪獸了嗎他對於這個將來消費者的影響包括餐廳店家的影響這個都是我們整個要評估那資料如果沒有很齊全我們補列放送資料給你的那他影響的是哪方面對店家什麼影響\n\n10\n00:03:03,391 --> 00:03:30,625\n對店家譬如說我們也做了很多的公聽會的徵詢店家擔心以後店家跟這個平台合作這個服務費可能會提高超成的問題是好那那個對於外送平台呢外送平台因為我們有這麼多的這個外送員他們也擔心說將來這個談判力量會不對等譬如說把這個外送費用降低或者是其他的就他的薪資會降低了薪資降低了那對消費者呢\n\n11\n00:03:30,965 --> 00:03:56,803\n消費者也擔心就提高價格因為我沒得選擇只能選這一家嘛以前有兩家可以選這個都是我提到的就是對利害對吸引的影響你都能夠說出來這就是一連貫的為了他們兩家和平之後產生了三輸的局面就是外送平台的外送人員還有店家還有消費者外送平台的人員因為他薪資會被他們控制而降低\n\n12\n00:03:57,603 --> 00:03:57,884\n公平委員會議\n\n13\n00:04:08,374 --> 00:04:29,871\n跟委員說明第一個我們要文件齊備之後綜合評估第二個公平會是委員會制的我現在問妳妳有立場嗎妳就有立場嘛所以妳現在我一邊送資料給妳妳就負責審核啊妳就回答妳有立場妳再寫到嚴格審核我現在不能談我的立場我們是委員會制的我們的整個想法他的資料是送給公平會嗎\n\n14\n00:04:31,420 --> 00:04:31,820\n公平交易法第11條\n\n15\n00:04:59,893 --> 00:05:17,064\n臺北有講到這個第7項跟第8項裡面如果正式受理之後已經正式受理了嗎正式受理還沒有正式受理文件齊備才正式受理他現在文件還沒有齊備所以還沒有他如果再過了半年還沒送來呢會不會取消會不會取消所以主委你一直在講21條我現在跟你講11條\n\n16\n00:05:25,729 --> 00:05:43,159\n第7項第8項如果這個合併案件正式受理後需要經過30天內做出決定如果有必要性延期可以再延期60天如果最長最長的話只有90個公酬天就要做出決議5月送件現在9月底了你說資料期前才叫做正式送件那5月份就不算囉\n\n17\n00:05:54,796 --> 00:05:55,397\n補件沒有進來,會不會被取消?\n\n18\n00:06:10,398 --> 00:06:13,239\n對於本案是不是準結合需要到委員會討論那我們必須要有詳細的資料以後才能夠在委員會裡面做判斷\n\n19\n00:06:38,848 --> 00:07:06,986\n所以你們現在連立場態度都沒有五月份送件到現在補件都一直遲遲不送來經過了年底他還沒辦法送來你還不能做個裁決公平會廢了算了廢掉算了一個公平會今天來了多少官員你一年處理十個案件處理這一個社會大眾擔心關心受到很大的傷害的事情你們到現在遲遲不處理\n\n20\n00:07:08,203 --> 00:07:13,607\n主委本席在上個月就已經接受了一個案件就是在我們的平台上面在教導他們如何買股票如何炒作股票結果有個受害者被騙的損失了1700萬找公平會公平會說你去報警\n\n21\n00:07:36,499 --> 00:07:36,519\n：呂玲\n\n22\n00:07:49,403 --> 00:07:51,925\n公平會現在網路發達數位在這個平台上網路上在這個平台上已經串聯到這種程度了你公平會要化被動為主動不要看了報紙還不做事\n\n23\n00:08:19,884 --> 00:08:31,481\n你們要去看這個平台上有沒有詐騙的有沒有不實的通通都有我們自己稍微有個頭腦能一看就是被騙的你一個人可以抽到73張的這個股票\n\n24\n00:08:34,218 --> 00:08:34,598\n法定人數不足\n\n25\n00:08:50,510 --> 00:09:14,324\n面對事實現在社會輿論上你們公平會就是讓所有大眾不要受到其害消費者也好店家也好外送平台都好需要你們站出來所以我現在說告訴你現在落雨年底還沒有辦法把這個資料送齊的話你要看看這兩家有沒有必要性的何必你們要掀錢可以看一看\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t15732\t呃我們先來請一下呂玉玲召委謝謝主席請你主委請你主委委員好\n16365\t44642\t主委公平會要負擔者就是我們整個社會我們所有的相關各行各業在這個市場這個平台上有任何不公的地方我們的公平會就要站出來主動站出來主持公道讓我們所有的大眾不要受到其害但是從早上到現在我一直聽到公平會永遠是被動撇清責任\n45883\t57718\t見報了到司法單位了還跟你們沒關係除非判決出來你們才承認這個是有問題的什麼叫做有問題只要有受害者就有問題對不對\n60650\t80388\t有時候可能就是有違反法令的行為主委為什麼早上這麼多委員大家都會比較激動的來問你就是你一直不聚焦委員問你的問題你都一直在答非所問我就給你再聚焦一下請問\n83717\t98558\t主委根據我們的數字統計報告這個Uber Eats跟他是一個獨佔的一個市場那將近有八成的這個外送市場但是他在這個五月份的時候他宣布了他要\n99459\t104260\t社會大眾緊張他們為什麼緊張我不知道公平會了不了解但是他們如果合併的話一定會影響市場上的結構\n124665\t147999\t公平會你們態度跟立場而言你們對於獨佔的這個市場他們會不會在整個市場上面的你一直講的就是說這個限制的這個制度跟這個方面齁但是限制競爭這方面會不會影響其他競爭者的競爭因為他是第一大他是第二大他獨佔這個市場\n149901\t156641\t合併之後的話其他市場有沒有能力跟他競爭就是限制競爭的這有沒有達到限制競爭\n158823\t182331\t會不會整個市場的競爭結構的改變還有他市佔率的改變我已經告訴你他是第一名第二名這兩個合併起來不是大怪獸了嗎他對於這個將來消費者的影響包括餐廳店家的影響這個都是我們整個要評估那資料如果沒有很齊全我們補列放送資料給你的那他影響的是哪方面對店家什麼影響\n183391\t210625\t對店家譬如說我們也做了很多的公聽會的徵詢店家擔心以後店家跟這個平台合作這個服務費可能會提高超成的問題是好那那個對於外送平台呢外送平台因為我們有這麼多的這個外送員他們也擔心說將來這個談判力量會不對等譬如說把這個外送費用降低或者是其他的就他的薪資會降低了薪資降低了那對消費者呢\n210965\t236803\t消費者也擔心就提高價格因為我沒得選擇只能選這一家嘛以前有兩家可以選這個都是我提到的就是對利害對吸引的影響你都能夠說出來這就是一連貫的為了他們兩家和平之後產生了三輸的局面就是外送平台的外送人員還有店家還有消費者外送平台的人員因為他薪資會被他們控制而降低\n237603\t237884\t公平委員會議\n248374\t269871\t跟委員說明 第一個我們要文件齊備之後綜合評估 第二個公平會是委員會制的我現在問妳 妳有立場嗎 妳就有立場嘛 所以妳現在我一邊送資料給妳 妳就負責審核啊 妳就回答妳有立場 妳再寫到嚴格審核我現在不能談我的立場 我們是委員會制的 我們的整個想法他的資料是送給公平會嗎\n271420\t271820\t公平交易法第11條\n299893\t317064\t臺北有講到 這個第7項跟第8項裡面 如果正式受理之後 已經正式受理了嗎 正式受理還沒有正式受理 文件齊備才正式受理他現在文件還沒有齊備 所以還沒有他如果再過了半年還沒送來呢 會不會取消 會不會取消所以 主委 你一直在講21條 我現在跟你講11條\n325729\t343159\t第7項第8項如果這個合併案件正式受理後需要經過30天內做出決定如果有必要性延期可以再延期60天如果最長最長的話只有90個公酬天就要做出決議5月送件現在9月底了你說資料期前才叫做正式送件那5月份就不算囉\n354796\t355397\t補件沒有進來,會不會被取消?\n370398\t373239\t對於本案是不是準結合需要到委員會討論那我們必須要有詳細的資料以後才能夠在委員會裡面做判斷\n398848\t426986\t所以你們現在連立場態度都沒有五月份送件到現在補件都一直遲遲不送來經過了年底他還沒辦法送來你還不能做個裁決公平會廢了算了廢掉算了一個公平會今天來了多少官員你一年處理十個案件處理這一個社會大眾擔心關心受到很大的傷害的事情你們到現在遲遲不處理\n428203\t433607\t主委本席在上個月就已經接受了一個案件就是在我們的平台上面在教導他們如何買股票如何炒作股票結果有個受害者被騙的損失了1700萬找公平會公平會說你去報警\n456499\t456519\t：呂玲\n469403\t471925\t公平會現在網路發達數位在這個平台上網路上在這個平台上已經串聯到這種程度了你公平會要化被動為主動不要看了報紙還不做事\n499884\t511481\t你們要去看這個平台上有沒有詐騙的有沒有不實的通通都有我們自己稍微有個頭腦能一看就是被騙的你一個人可以抽到73張的這個股票\n514218\t514598\t法定人數不足\n530510\t554324\t面對事實現在社會輿論上你們公平會就是讓所有大眾不要受到其害消費者也好店家也好外送平台都好需要你們站出來所以我現在說告訴你現在落雨年底還沒有辦法把這個資料送齊的話你要看看這兩家有沒有必要性的何必你們要掀錢可以看一看\n555265\t581391\t﹗\n","txt":"呃我們先來請一下呂玉玲召委謝謝主席請你主委請你主委委員好\n主委公平會要負擔者就是我們整個社會我們所有的相關各行各業在這個市場這個平台上有任何不公的地方我們的公平會就要站出來主動站出來主持公道讓我們所有的大眾不要受到其害但是從早上到現在我一直聽到公平會永遠是被動撇清責任\n見報了到司法單位了還跟你們沒關係除非判決出來你們才承認這個是有問題的什麼叫做有問題只要有受害者就有問題對不對\n有時候可能就是有違反法令的行為主委為什麼早上這麼多委員大家都會比較激動的來問你就是你一直不聚焦委員問你的問題你都一直在答非所問我就給你再聚焦一下請問\n主委根據我們的數字統計報告這個Uber Eats跟他是一個獨佔的一個市場那將近有八成的這個外送市場但是他在這個五月份的時候他宣布了他要\n社會大眾緊張他們為什麼緊張我不知道公平會了不了解但是他們如果合併的話一定會影響市場上的結構\n公平會你們態度跟立場而言你們對於獨佔的這個市場他們會不會在整個市場上面的你一直講的就是說這個限制的這個制度跟這個方面齁但是限制競爭這方面會不會影響其他競爭者的競爭因為他是第一大他是第二大他獨佔這個市場\n合併之後的話其他市場有沒有能力跟他競爭就是限制競爭的這有沒有達到限制競爭\n會不會整個市場的競爭結構的改變還有他市佔率的改變我已經告訴你他是第一名第二名這兩個合併起來不是大怪獸了嗎他對於這個將來消費者的影響包括餐廳店家的影響這個都是我們整個要評估那資料如果沒有很齊全我們補列放送資料給你的那他影響的是哪方面對店家什麼影響\n對店家譬如說我們也做了很多的公聽會的徵詢店家擔心以後店家跟這個平台合作這個服務費可能會提高超成的問題是好那那個對於外送平台呢外送平台因為我們有這麼多的這個外送員他們也擔心說將來這個談判力量會不對等譬如說把這個外送費用降低或者是其他的就他的薪資會降低了薪資降低了那對消費者呢\n消費者也擔心就提高價格因為我沒得選擇只能選這一家嘛以前有兩家可以選這個都是我提到的就是對利害對吸引的影響你都能夠說出來這就是一連貫的為了他們兩家和平之後產生了三輸的局面就是外送平台的外送人員還有店家還有消費者外送平台的人員因為他薪資會被他們控制而降低\n公平委員會議\n跟委員說明 第一個我們要文件齊備之後綜合評估 第二個公平會是委員會制的我現在問妳 妳有立場嗎 妳就有立場嘛 所以妳現在我一邊送資料給妳 妳就負責審核啊 妳就回答妳有立場 妳再寫到嚴格審核我現在不能談我的立場 我們是委員會制的 我們的整個想法他的資料是送給公平會嗎\n公平交易法第11條\n臺北有講到 這個第7項跟第8項裡面 如果正式受理之後 已經正式受理了嗎 正式受理還沒有正式受理 文件齊備才正式受理他現在文件還沒有齊備 所以還沒有他如果再過了半年還沒送來呢 會不會取消 會不會取消所以 主委 你一直在講21條 我現在跟你講11條\n第7項第8項如果這個合併案件正式受理後需要經過30天內做出決定如果有必要性延期可以再延期60天如果最長最長的話只有90個公酬天就要做出決議5月送件現在9月底了你說資料期前才叫做正式送件那5月份就不算囉\n補件沒有進來,會不會被取消?\n對於本案是不是準結合需要到委員會討論那我們必須要有詳細的資料以後才能夠在委員會裡面做判斷\n所以你們現在連立場態度都沒有五月份送件到現在補件都一直遲遲不送來經過了年底他還沒辦法送來你還不能做個裁決公平會廢了算了廢掉算了一個公平會今天來了多少官員你一年處理十個案件處理這一個社會大眾擔心關心受到很大的傷害的事情你們到現在遲遲不處理\n主委本席在上個月就已經接受了一個案件就是在我們的平台上面在教導他們如何買股票如何炒作股票結果有個受害者被騙的損失了1700萬找公平會公平會說你去報警\n：呂玲\n公平會現在網路發達數位在這個平台上網路上在這個平台上已經串聯到這種程度了你公平會要化被動為主動不要看了報紙還不做事\n你們要去看這個平台上有沒有詐騙的有沒有不實的通通都有我們自己稍微有個頭腦能一看就是被騙的你一個人可以抽到73張的這個股票\n法定人數不足\n面對事實現在社會輿論上你們公平會就是讓所有大眾不要受到其害消費者也好店家也好外送平台都好需要你們站出來所以我現在說告訴你現在落雨年底還沒有辦法把這個資料送齊的話你要看看這兩家有沒有必要性的何必你們要掀錢可以看一看\n﹗\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:15.732\n呃我們先來請一下呂玉玲召委謝謝主席請你主委請你主委委員好\n\n00:16.365 --> 00:44.642\n主委公平會要負擔者就是我們整個社會我們所有的相關各行各業在這個市場這個平台上有任何不公的地方我們的公平會就要站出來主動站出來主持公道讓我們所有的大眾不要受到其害但是從早上到現在我一直聽到公平會永遠是被動撇清責任\n\n00:45.883 --> 00:57.718\n見報了到司法單位了還跟你們沒關係除非判決出來你們才承認這個是有問題的什麼叫做有問題只要有受害者就有問題對不對\n\n01:00.650 --> 01:20.388\n有時候可能就是有違反法令的行為主委為什麼早上這麼多委員大家都會比較激動的來問你就是你一直不聚焦委員問你的問題你都一直在答非所問我就給你再聚焦一下請問\n\n01:23.717 --> 01:38.558\n主委根據我們的數字統計報告這個UberEats跟他是一個獨佔的一個市場那將近有八成的這個外送市場但是他在這個五月份的時候他宣布了他要\n\n01:39.459 --> 01:44.260\n社會大眾緊張他們為什麼緊張我不知道公平會了不了解但是他們如果合併的話一定會影響市場上的結構\n\n02:04.665 --> 02:27.999\n公平會你們態度跟立場而言你們對於獨佔的這個市場他們會不會在整個市場上面的你一直講的就是說這個限制的這個制度跟這個方面齁但是限制競爭這方面會不會影響其他競爭者的競爭因為他是第一大他是第二大他獨佔這個市場\n\n02:29.901 --> 02:36.641\n合併之後的話其他市場有沒有能力跟他競爭就是限制競爭的這有沒有達到限制競爭\n\n02:38.823 --> 03:02.331\n會不會整個市場的競爭結構的改變還有他市佔率的改變我已經告訴你他是第一名第二名這兩個合併起來不是大怪獸了嗎他對於這個將來消費者的影響包括餐廳店家的影響這個都是我們整個要評估那資料如果沒有很齊全我們補列放送資料給你的那他影響的是哪方面對店家什麼影響\n\n03:03.391 --> 03:30.625\n對店家譬如說我們也做了很多的公聽會的徵詢店家擔心以後店家跟這個平台合作這個服務費可能會提高超成的問題是好那那個對於外送平台呢外送平台因為我們有這麼多的這個外送員他們也擔心說將來這個談判力量會不對等譬如說把這個外送費用降低或者是其他的就他的薪資會降低了薪資降低了那對消費者呢\n\n03:30.965 --> 03:56.803\n消費者也擔心就提高價格因為我沒得選擇只能選這一家嘛以前有兩家可以選這個都是我提到的就是對利害對吸引的影響你都能夠說出來這就是一連貫的為了他們兩家和平之後產生了三輸的局面就是外送平台的外送人員還有店家還有消費者外送平台的人員因為他薪資會被他們控制而降低\n\n03:57.603 --> 03:57.884\n公平委員會議\n\n04:08.374 --> 04:29.871\n跟委員說明第一個我們要文件齊備之後綜合評估第二個公平會是委員會制的我現在問妳妳有立場嗎妳就有立場嘛所以妳現在我一邊送資料給妳妳就負責審核啊妳就回答妳有立場妳再寫到嚴格審核我現在不能談我的立場我們是委員會制的我們的整個想法他的資料是送給公平會嗎\n\n04:31.420 --> 04:31.820\n公平交易法第11條\n\n04:59.893 --> 05:17.064\n臺北有講到這個第7項跟第8項裡面如果正式受理之後已經正式受理了嗎正式受理還沒有正式受理文件齊備才正式受理他現在文件還沒有齊備所以還沒有他如果再過了半年還沒送來呢會不會取消會不會取消所以主委你一直在講21條我現在跟你講11條\n\n05:25.729 --> 05:43.159\n第7項第8項如果這個合併案件正式受理後需要經過30天內做出決定如果有必要性延期可以再延期60天如果最長最長的話只有90個公酬天就要做出決議5月送件現在9月底了你說資料期前才叫做正式送件那5月份就不算囉\n\n05:54.796 --> 05:55.397\n補件沒有進來,會不會被取消?\n\n06:10.398 --> 06:13.239\n對於本案是不是準結合需要到委員會討論那我們必須要有詳細的資料以後才能夠在委員會裡面做判斷\n\n06:38.848 --> 07:06.986\n所以你們現在連立場態度都沒有五月份送件到現在補件都一直遲遲不送來經過了年底他還沒辦法送來你還不能做個裁決公平會廢了算了廢掉算了一個公平會今天來了多少官員你一年處理十個案件處理這一個社會大眾擔心關心受到很大的傷害的事情你們到現在遲遲不處理\n\n07:08.203 --> 07:13.607\n主委本席在上個月就已經接受了一個案件就是在我們的平台上面在教導他們如何買股票如何炒作股票結果有個受害者被騙的損失了1700萬找公平會公平會說你去報警\n\n07:36.499 --> 07:36.519\n：呂玲\n\n07:49.403 --> 07:51.925\n公平會現在網路發達數位在這個平台上網路上在這個平台上已經串聯到這種程度了你公平會要化被動為主動不要看了報紙還不做事\n\n08:19.884 --> 08:31.481\n你們要去看這個平台上有沒有詐騙的有沒有不實的通通都有我們自己稍微有個頭腦能一看就是被騙的你一個人可以抽到73張的這個股票\n\n08:34.218 --> 08:34.598\n法定人數不足\n\n08:50.510 --> 09:14.324\n面對事實現在社會輿論上你們公平會就是讓所有大眾不要受到其害消費者也好店家也好外送平台都好需要你們站出來所以我現在說告訴你現在落雨年底還沒有辦法把這個資料送齊的話你要看看這兩家有沒有必要性的何必你們要掀錢可以看一看\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":15.732,"text":"呃我們先來請一下呂玉玲召委謝謝主席請你主委請你主委委員好"},{"start":16.365,"end":44.642,"text":"主委公平會要負擔者就是我們整個社會我們所有的相關各行各業在這個市場這個平台上有任何不公的地方我們的公平會就要站出來主動站出來主持公道讓我們所有的大眾不要受到其害但是從早上到現在我一直聽到公平會永遠是被動撇清責任"},{"start":45.883,"end":57.718,"text":"見報了到司法單位了還跟你們沒關係除非判決出來你們才承認這個是有問題的什麼叫做有問題只要有受害者就有問題對不對"},{"start":60.65,"end":80.388,"text":"有時候可能就是有違反法令的行為主委為什麼早上這麼多委員大家都會比較激動的來問你就是你一直不聚焦委員問你的問題你都一直在答非所問我就給你再聚焦一下請問"},{"start":83.717,"end":98.558,"text":"主委根據我們的數字統計報告這個Uber Eats跟他是一個獨佔的一個市場那將近有八成的這個外送市場但是他在這個五月份的時候他宣布了他要"},{"start":99.459,"end":104.26,"text":"社會大眾緊張他們為什麼緊張我不知道公平會了不了解但是他們如果合併的話一定會影響市場上的結構"},{"start":124.665,"end":147.999,"text":"公平會你們態度跟立場而言你們對於獨佔的這個市場他們會不會在整個市場上面的你一直講的就是說這個限制的這個制度跟這個方面齁但是限制競爭這方面會不會影響其他競爭者的競爭因為他是第一大他是第二大他獨佔這個市場"},{"start":149.901,"end":156.641,"text":"合併之後的話其他市場有沒有能力跟他競爭就是限制競爭的這有沒有達到限制競爭"},{"start":158.823,"end":182.331,"text":"會不會整個市場的競爭結構的改變還有他市佔率的改變我已經告訴你他是第一名第二名這兩個合併起來不是大怪獸了嗎他對於這個將來消費者的影響包括餐廳店家的影響這個都是我們整個要評估那資料如果沒有很齊全我們補列放送資料給你的那他影響的是哪方面對店家什麼影響"},{"start":183.391,"end":210.625,"text":"對店家譬如說我們也做了很多的公聽會的徵詢店家擔心以後店家跟這個平台合作這個服務費可能會提高超成的問題是好那那個對於外送平台呢外送平台因為我們有這麼多的這個外送員他們也擔心說將來這個談判力量會不對等譬如說把這個外送費用降低或者是其他的就他的薪資會降低了薪資降低了那對消費者呢"},{"start":210.965,"end":236.803,"text":"消費者也擔心就提高價格因為我沒得選擇只能選這一家嘛以前有兩家可以選這個都是我提到的就是對利害對吸引的影響你都能夠說出來這就是一連貫的為了他們兩家和平之後產生了三輸的局面就是外送平台的外送人員還有店家還有消費者外送平台的人員因為他薪資會被他們控制而降低"},{"start":237.603,"end":237.884,"text":"公平委員會議"},{"start":248.374,"end":269.871,"text":"跟委員說明 第一個我們要文件齊備之後綜合評估 第二個公平會是委員會制的我現在問妳 妳有立場嗎 妳就有立場嘛 所以妳現在我一邊送資料給妳 妳就負責審核啊 妳就回答妳有立場 妳再寫到嚴格審核我現在不能談我的立場 我們是委員會制的 我們的整個想法他的資料是送給公平會嗎"},{"start":271.42,"end":271.82,"text":"公平交易法第11條"},{"start":299.893,"end":317.064,"text":"臺北有講到 這個第7項跟第8項裡面 如果正式受理之後 已經正式受理了嗎 正式受理還沒有正式受理 文件齊備才正式受理他現在文件還沒有齊備 所以還沒有他如果再過了半年還沒送來呢 會不會取消 會不會取消所以 主委 你一直在講21條 我現在跟你講11條"},{"start":325.729,"end":343.159,"text":"第7項第8項如果這個合併案件正式受理後需要經過30天內做出決定如果有必要性延期可以再延期60天如果最長最長的話只有90個公酬天就要做出決議5月送件現在9月底了你說資料期前才叫做正式送件那5月份就不算囉"},{"start":354.796,"end":355.397,"text":"補件沒有進來,會不會被取消?"},{"start":370.398,"end":373.239,"text":"對於本案是不是準結合需要到委員會討論那我們必須要有詳細的資料以後才能夠在委員會裡面做判斷"},{"start":398.848,"end":426.986,"text":"所以你們現在連立場態度都沒有五月份送件到現在補件都一直遲遲不送來經過了年底他還沒辦法送來你還不能做個裁決公平會廢了算了廢掉算了一個公平會今天來了多少官員你一年處理十個案件處理這一個社會大眾擔心關心受到很大的傷害的事情你們到現在遲遲不處理"},{"start":428.203,"end":433.607,"text":"主委本席在上個月就已經接受了一個案件就是在我們的平台上面在教導他們如何買股票如何炒作股票結果有個受害者被騙的損失了1700萬找公平會公平會說你去報警"},{"start":456.499,"end":456.519,"text":"：呂玲"},{"start":469.403,"end":471.925,"text":"公平會現在網路發達數位在這個平台上網路上在這個平台上已經串聯到這種程度了你公平會要化被動為主動不要看了報紙還不做事"},{"start":499.884,"end":511.481,"text":"你們要去看這個平台上有沒有詐騙的有沒有不實的通通都有我們自己稍微有個頭腦能一看就是被騙的你一個人可以抽到73張的這個股票"},{"start":514.218,"end":514.598,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":530.51,"end":554.324,"text":"面對事實現在社會輿論上你們公平會就是讓所有大眾不要受到其害消費者也好店家也好外送平台都好需要你們站出來所以我現在說告訴你現在落雨年底還沒有辦法把這個資料送齊的話你要看看這兩家有沒有必要性的何必你們要掀錢可以看一看"},{"start":555.265,"end":581.391,"text":"﹗"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:16:05 - 10:25:47","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","id":154959,"gazette":{"lineno":399,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時16分）謝謝主席。請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，公平會要負擔相關責任，整個社會所有各行各業在市場、平臺上有任何不公的地方，公平會就要主動站出來主持公道，讓所有大眾不受到其害。但是從早上到現在，我一直聽到公平會永遠是被動、撇清責任，見報了、到司法單位了，還跟你們沒關係，除非判決出來，你們才承認這個是有問題的，什麼叫做有問題？只要有受害者，就有問題，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：有受害者可能就是有違反法令的行為，那我們就……"],["呂委員玉玲：你又撇到司法，主委，為什麼早上這麼多委員大家都會比較激動地來問你？就是你一直不聚焦委員問你的問題，你一直都在答非所問，我就給你聚焦再聚焦一下，請問主委，根據數字統計報告，Uber Eats是獨占市場，將近有八成的外送市場，但是在5月份時，它宣布要併購foodpanda，整個社會輿論是傾向不支持的，但是在整個外送平臺裡面，你看到這兩家，一個是第一名，一個就是第二名，他們要合併了，社會大眾非常地緊張，他們為什麼緊張？我不知道公平會瞭不瞭解，但是他們如果合併的話，一定會影響市場上的結構，以公平會的態度跟立場，你們對於獨占市場的部分，他們會不會在整個市場上面，在限制制度方面，限制競爭這方面會不會影響到其他競爭者？因為一個是第一大，一個是第二大，他們如果合併，獨占這個市場，其他市場有沒有能力跟他們競爭？就是限制競爭，這個有沒有達到限制競爭？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想會不會造成整個市場競爭結構的改變，還有市占率的改變，它對於……"],["呂委員玉玲：我已經告訴你一個是第一名、一個是第二名，這兩個合併起來不是變成大怪獸了嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：將來對於消費者的影響，包括對於餐廳、店家的影響，這都是我們要整個評估的，資料如果沒有很齊全，我們不是……"],["呂委員玉玲：5月份送資料給你們了，它影響的是哪方面？對店家有什麼影響？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們也做了很多的公聽會的徵詢，店家擔心以後店家跟這個平臺合作，服務費可能會提高。"],["呂委員玉玲：抽成的問題。"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：好。對於外送平臺呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：外送平臺，因為我們有這麼多的外送員，他們也擔心將來談判力量會不對等，譬如把外送費用降低，或是其他的勞動條件會改變。"],["呂委員玉玲：就是他的薪資會降低，那對消費者呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：消費者也擔心提高價格，因為沒得選擇只能選這一家嘛，以前有兩家可以選，這個都是我所提到的，就是對於利害關係人的影響。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，你都能夠說出來，這就是連貫的，未來他們兩家合併之後，產生了三輸的局面，就是外送平臺的外送人員、還有店家、還有消費者，外送平臺的人員薪資會被他們控制而降低；店家的話是抽成的問題，抽成就會反映到成本，成本就轉嫁到消費者，三輸的局面。所以公平會有沒有立場？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，第一個，要文件齊備之後，我們綜合評估；第二個，公平會是委員會制……"],["呂委員玉玲：我是在問你，你有立場嗎，你就有立場嘛！所以5月份送資料給你，你就負責審核啊，你就回答你有立場，你需要嚴格審核。"],["李主任委員鎂：報告委員，我現在不能談我的立場，我們是委員會制的，我們的整個想法必須要在委員會討論……"],["呂委員玉玲：它的資料是送給公平會嗎？是不是送給你們？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，資料是給公平會。"],["呂委員玉玲：那就是你們的立場，你要負責審核嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：那公平會是委員制，這麼大的案子，一定要經過委員會討論。"],["呂委員玉玲：對，委員制，你們要不要審核？5月份送資料給你們，到8月份你們要求他們要補正資料，現在是9月30號，又過了2個月了，資料送到沒有？"],["李主任委員鎂：還沒有，補正期間還沒到。"],["呂委員玉玲：還沒有，不能因為它是國外的公司就……因為在公平交易法的第十一條特別有講到，第七項跟第八項提到如果正式受理之後，已經正式受理了嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：還沒有正式受理，文件齊備才正式受理，現在文件還沒有齊備，所以還沒有。"],["呂委員玉玲：如果再過了半年它還是沒送來呢？會不會取消？"],["李主任委員鎂：如果文件沒有齊備，我們就沒辦法審。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，你一直在講第二十一條，我現在跟你講第十一條，第七項、第八項，如果這個合併案件正式受理後，需要三十天內做出決定，如果有必要可以再延期六十天，最長九十個工作天就要做出決議。5月送件，現在9月底了，你說要資料齊全才叫正式送件……"],["李主任委員鎂：是，正式受理……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以5月份就不算？"],["李主任委員鎂：5月只是遞件。"],["呂委員玉玲：我再問你，到年底以前如果補件沒有進來，會不會被取消？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們會看沒有進來的原因是什麼？目前為止他還是表達有意願補件……"],["呂委員玉玲：他要補件，你說要補什麼件？你說是必要……"],["李主任委員鎂：結合的綜效評估。"],["呂委員玉玲：你必須讓他知道補什麼件。"],["李主任委員鎂：我們要看各界的意見。一方面我們有，一方面……"],["呂委員玉玲：我要看公平會的態度、意見，你自己知道你們委員會有什麼意見，才會需要補件，你們第一關審查就是知道哪些不符才要他補件……"],["李主任委員鎂：是……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以怎麼會沒有立場、沒有態度？"],["李主任委員鎂：對於本案是不是准結合，需要到委員會討論，所以我們必須要有詳細的資料才能在委員會做判斷。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你們現在連立場態度都沒有？"],["李主任委員鎂：委員會還會……"],["呂委員玉玲：5月份送件到現在，補件都一直遲遲不送來，都快年底了，他還沒辦法送來，你還不能做個裁決？公平會廢了算了！廢掉算了！"],["李主任委員鎂：補件是申請人本來……"],["呂委員玉玲：公平會今天來了多少官員？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們任何案件都會有……"],["呂委員玉玲：一年處理10個案件，但對於處理這種社會大眾關心，擔心權益受到很大傷害的，你們卻到現在遲遲不處理？我告訴你，這種限制競爭是會發生的，具高度風險，而你們還是一樣？"],["李主任委員鎂：報告委員，沒有不處理……"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，本席上個月接到一個陳情案件，在平臺上有人教導他們如何買股票、如何炒作股票，結果有受害者被騙了，損失了1,700萬！找公平會，公平會說去報警，就這麼兩手一攤，叫他去報警？他說這個平臺一開始教他怎麼玩股票；到後面告訴他抽中了股票73張，所以要趕快把錢繳進來。他問公平會，這件事情是否為真？但公平會說去報案吧！現在案子已經到法院了，車手什麼的都被抓了！"],["李主任委員鎂：因為這是刑事案件……"],["呂委員玉玲：公平會只能叫他這樣去報案嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：報告委員……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我跟你聚焦在這種問題上！今天早上每一個委員都講到這個！現在網路發達，在平臺上、在網路上，已經串聯到這種程度了，所以公平會要化被動為主動，不要看了報紙還不做事！你們要去看平臺上有沒有詐騙的？有沒有不實的？通通都有。稍微有頭腦的人一看就知道被騙了，一個人可以抽到73張的股票？這麼淺顯易懂的事，你們都不能主動嗎？你們可以去訪查、去偵查、去詢問，公平會坐在這邊的就這麼多人了，你們部裡面、委員會裡面有多少人？我希望你們能誠懇面對事實、面對現在的社會輿論，因為公平會就是要讓社會大眾不要受害！消費者也好、店家也好，外送平臺都好，需要你們站出來。我現在告訴你，如果年底業者還沒有辦法把資料送齊的話，那麼你就要看看這兩家有沒有合併的必要性？你們先看一看。再者，如果外送平臺未來抽潤會轉嫁給消費者，那麼這部分我覺得可以成立專案，可以比照、參考美國的專案，也就是抽成的％數有一定上限，這也是保障。對外送平臺、消費者跟店家，這都是一種方式，本席給你這個建議，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["主席（呂委員玉玲）：謝謝大家。等會在楊瓊瓔委員質詢完畢，我們休息5分鐘。","現在請陳亭妃委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-2","speakers":["呂玉玲","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","鍾佳濱","陳超明","洪孟楷","蔡易餘","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1137901_00001"}}}