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\"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 60.69, \"end\": 60.87, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 60.87, \"end\": 61.09, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 61.09, \"end\": 62.091, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 62.091, \"end\": 62.311, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 62.311, \"end\": 62.831, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"瞻\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 62.831, \"end\": 63.451, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 63.451, \"end\": 63.751, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 63.751, \"end\": 63.951, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 63.951, \"end\": 64.311, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 64.311, \"end\": 64.451, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 64.451, \"end\": 64.651, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 64.651, \"end\": 65.132, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 65.132, \"end\": 65.272, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 65.272, \"end\": 65.792, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 65.792, \"end\": 66.012, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 66.012, \"end\": 66.232, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 66.232, \"end\": 66.452, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 66.452, \"end\": 67.292, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 67.292, \"end\": 67.672, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 67.672, \"end\": 67.872, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 67.872, \"end\": 68.193, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 68.193, \"end\": 68.333, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 68.333, \"end\": 68.513, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 68.513, \"end\": 69.093, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 69.093, \"end\": 69.293, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 69.293, \"end\": 69.773, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 69.773, \"end\": 69.893, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 69.893, \"end\": 70.013, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 70.013, \"end\": 70.193, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 70.193, \"end\": 70.633, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 70.633, \"end\": 70.773, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 70.773, \"end\": 70.933, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 70.933, \"end\": 71.053, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 71.053, \"end\": 71.214, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 71.214, \"end\": 71.434, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 71.434, \"end\": 71.454, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 72.754, \"end\": 87.754, \"text\": \"所以我們國科會我們在管理科學園區的時候科學園區成功的一個很重要關鍵就是科學園區跟大學之間的研究是非常緊密結合因為要發展是科技產業科技產業如果沒有前端的科研是不可能有產業的發展\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 72.754, \"end\": 72.894, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 72.894, \"end\": 73.014, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 73.014, \"end\": 73.916, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 73.916, \"end\": 74.156, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 74.156, \"end\": 74.356, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 74.356, \"end\": 74.516, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 74.516, \"end\": 74.677, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 74.677, \"end\": 74.817, \"score\": 0.649}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 74.817, \"end\": 74.957, \"score\": 0.637}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 74.957, \"end\": 75.297, \"score\": 0.606}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 75.297, \"end\": 75.498, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 75.498, \"end\": 75.658, \"score\": 0.607}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 75.658, \"end\": 75.818, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 75.818, \"end\": 76.619, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 76.619, \"end\": 76.88, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"功\", \"start\": 76.88, \"end\": 77.06, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 77.06, \"end\": 77.16, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 77.16, \"end\": 77.36, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 77.36, \"end\": 77.54, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 77.54, \"end\": 77.681, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 77.681, \"end\": 78.221, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"鍵\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 78.221, \"end\": 78.381, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 78.381, \"end\": 78.922, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 78.922, \"end\": 79.323, \"score\": 0.614}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 79.323, \"end\": 79.643, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 79.643, \"end\": 79.903, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 79.903, \"end\": 80.144, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 80.144, \"end\": 80.364, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 80.364, \"end\": 80.604, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 80.604, \"end\": 80.725, \"score\": 0.446}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 80.725, \"end\": 80.905, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 80.905, \"end\": 81.085, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 81.085, \"end\": 81.285, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 81.285, \"end\": 81.405, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 81.405, \"end\": 81.746, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 81.746, \"end\": 82.106, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 82.106, \"end\": 82.587, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 82.587, \"end\": 82.767, \"score\": 0.608}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 82.767, \"end\": 83.108, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 83.108, \"end\": 83.308, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 83.308, \"end\": 83.548, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 83.548, \"end\": 83.849, \"score\": 0.721}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 83.849, \"end\": 84.83, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 84.83, \"end\": 84.93, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 84.93, \"end\": 85.291, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 85.291, \"end\": 85.431, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 85.431, \"end\": 85.551, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 85.551, \"end\": 85.671, \"score\": 0.591}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 85.671, \"end\": 85.891, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 85.891, \"end\": 86.172, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"端\", \"start\": 86.172, \"end\": 86.312, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 86.312, \"end\": 86.452, \"score\": 0.587}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 86.452, \"end\": 86.632, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 86.632, \"end\": 87.113, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 87.113, \"end\": 87.233, \"score\": 0.649}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 87.233, \"end\": 87.353, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 87.353, \"end\": 87.473, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 87.473, \"end\": 87.594, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 87.594, \"end\": 87.674, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.674, \"end\": 87.734, \"score\": 0.112}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 87.734, \"end\": 87.754, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 88.935, \"end\": 113.255, \"text\": \"所以我們跟經濟部就互相協助在發展科學園區的過程當中也把大學的研發能量也結合園區的事業讓園區的科技產業的發展更為蓬勃大概就是這樣的這個分工好那我想問一下請問國科會學術研究的一個產出以結案為來計算一年大概有幾案案件數那個我們眾會數\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 88.935, \"end\": 89.095, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 89.095, \"end\": 89.215, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 89.215, \"end\": 89.456, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 89.456, \"end\": 89.876, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 89.876, \"end\": 90.076, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 90.076, \"end\": 91.878, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 91.878, \"end\": 92.018, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 92.018, \"end\": 92.458, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 92.458, \"end\": 93.119, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 93.119, \"end\": 93.679, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 93.679, \"end\": 93.859, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 93.859, \"end\": 94.159, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 94.159, \"end\": 94.5, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 94.5, \"end\": 94.84, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 94.84, \"end\": 95.22, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 95.22, \"end\": 95.761, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 95.761, \"end\": 95.921, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 95.921, \"end\": 96.101, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 96.101, \"end\": 96.341, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 96.341, \"end\": 96.501, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 96.501, \"end\": 96.641, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 96.641, \"end\": 96.982, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 96.982, \"end\": 97.182, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 97.182, \"end\": 97.782, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 97.782, \"end\": 98.143, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 98.143, \"end\": 98.823, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 98.823, \"end\": 99.564, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 99.564, \"end\": 100.665, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 100.665, \"end\": 102.006, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 102.006, \"end\": 102.166, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"技\", \"start\": 102.166, \"end\": 102.526, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 102.526, \"end\": 102.826, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 102.826, \"end\": 103.047, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 103.047, \"end\": 103.347, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"蓬\", \"start\": 103.347, \"end\": 103.547, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"勃\", \"start\": 103.547, \"end\": 104.167, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 104.167, \"end\": 104.288, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 104.288, \"end\": 104.408, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 104.408, \"end\": 104.528, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 104.528, \"end\": 104.888, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.888, \"end\": 105.228, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 105.228, \"end\": 105.388, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 105.388, \"end\": 106.009, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 106.009, \"end\": 106.389, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 106.389, \"end\": 106.489, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 106.489, \"end\": 106.549, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 106.549, \"end\": 106.69, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 106.69, \"end\": 106.81, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 106.81, \"end\": 107.55, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 107.55, \"end\": 108.411, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 108.411, \"end\": 108.611, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 108.611, \"end\": 108.851, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"究\", \"start\": 108.851, \"end\": 109.051, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 109.051, \"end\": 109.131, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 109.131, \"end\": 109.592, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 109.592, \"end\": 110.553, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 110.553, \"end\": 111.113, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 111.113, \"end\": 112.014, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 112.014, \"end\": 112.434, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 112.434, \"end\": 112.534, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 112.534, \"end\": 112.654, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 112.654, \"end\": 112.774, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 112.774, \"end\": 112.875, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 112.875, \"end\": 112.975, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 112.975, \"end\": 113.095, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 113.095, \"end\": 113.195, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 113.195, \"end\": 113.215, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 113.215, \"end\": 113.235, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 113.235, \"end\": 113.255, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}]}, {\"start\": 119.219, \"end\": 132.232, \"text\": \"請我們中衛署來回答跟委員報告如果是在年度執行中的計畫大概一萬五千件好那這些產出確實帶動產業發展的大概有幾案有沒有計算過\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 119.219, \"end\": 119.419, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 119.419, \"end\": 120.0, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 120.0, \"end\": 120.681, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 120.681, \"end\": 120.861, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 120.861, \"end\": 123.464, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 123.464, \"end\": 123.584, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 123.584, \"end\": 123.924, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 123.924, \"end\": 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\"start\": 730.398, \"end\": 730.519, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 730.519, \"end\": 730.619, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 730.619, \"end\": 730.799, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 730.799, \"end\": 731.459, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 731.459, \"end\": 731.679, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 731.679, \"end\": 731.94, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"鼓\", \"start\": 731.94, \"end\": 731.96, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"羅\"}, {\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 733.12, \"end\": 733.24, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"瑋\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 733.24, \"end\": 733.26, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,582 --> 00:00:08,632\n謝謝主席麻煩有請吳主委有請主委\n\n2\n00:00:15,593 --> 00:00:43,905\n羅委員好好主委謝謝今天大家對這個議題其實都滿關注的那也引起不少的風波我想主委國科會主要的任務不外乎第一推動全國整體的科技發展第二資源學術研究第三發展科學園區剛好這些任務教育部跟經濟部都有在做我想請問一下國科會你們與教育部經濟部這兩個部會在研究教學產業發展的一個需求這三個面向是怎麼分工\n\n3\n00:00:44,645 --> 00:01:11,454\n有分工可以分享一下嗎教育部支持我們全國各學校從大學到小學都有關聯那教學的部分是教育部主政但是研究特別是在大學做前瞻的基礎研究應用研究那是國科會在支持這是教學跟研究那跟經濟部的分工經濟部是注重在產業發展\n\n4\n00:01:12,754 --> 00:01:27,754\n所以我們國科會我們在管理科學園區的時候科學園區成功的一個很重要關鍵就是科學園區跟大學之間的研究是非常緊密結合因為要發展是科技產業科技產業如果沒有前端的科研是不可能有產業的發展\n\n5\n00:01:28,935 --> 00:01:53,255\n所以我們跟經濟部就互相協助在發展科學園區的過程當中也把大學的研發能量也結合園區的事業讓園區的科技產業的發展更為蓬勃大概就是這樣的這個分工好那我想問一下請問國科會學術研究的一個產出以結案為來計算一年大概有幾案案件數那個我們眾會數\n\n6\n00:01:59,219 --> 00:02:12,232\n請我們中衛署來回答跟委員報告如果是在年度執行中的計畫大概一萬五千件好那這些產出確實帶動產業發展的大概有幾案有沒有計算過\n\n7\n00:02:14,008 --> 00:02:37,827\n這一部分我們不會去計算我們大概有一些叫做產學合作的案子但是也不見得是只有產學合作的案子才會對產業有幫助我們有一些科技研發的成果其實是廠商直接會找學校找教授去做這個技術移轉所以也有一些技術移轉的這個方式那也有一些教授在教學之餘也會去協助產業擔任顧問\n\n8\n00:02:39,608 --> 00:02:46,853\n您認為學術的產出跟所謂的產業的發展有沒有落差?落差難免是有因為我們支持學術研究不見得全部都是應用型直接連結到產業有些是有社會貢獻有些是純粹科學的研究它是未來可能比較長期才會被社會所使用\n\n9\n00:03:09,388 --> 00:03:23,685\n所以發展成科技發展成技術所以我們很難去界定說一個學術研究的成果是不是對社會有利己的貢獻對產業有利己貢獻有時候是比較難衡量有些像AI的研究\n\n10\n00:03:24,746 --> 00:03:46,045\n過去很長的一段時間是社會覺得沒有直接的感受到AI研究的貢獻而是在十幾年前才發現說因為雲端科技因為台灣的半導體發展能夠訓練非常大的這種人工智慧的模型才發現說它的貢獻會非常的大所以有時候是經過長時間的研究累積的成果才會有貢獻的\n\n11\n00:03:47,526 --> 00:04:12,523\n那我想剛剛有聽到這個主委有一些表態那我想態度都良善但是我還是有一些問題想跟大家請問一起來探討那我想目前國科會日前國科會所你調整的永續三學門遭學界說不重視永續發展而且也發出了相關的聲明第一學術自由與公開討論是永續發展科技核心的一個價值我想這個部分的聲明您大概都有看過\n\n12\n00:04:13,163 --> 00:04:41,849\n他們也堅決的反對任何由上而下未經公開溝通的獨斷做法第二國科會應正視新政府對永續發展的近鄰挑戰政策任何對永續相關計畫的刪減與調整應公開透明的機制廣泛的跨領域做學界的一個溝通我想並建立一個共識我想這個部分剛剛您有所回應那我們還是希望學界目前所\n\n13\n00:04:43,109 --> 00:05:04,095\n發聲的這些聲明第一時間我們有看到幾個回應我想跟你探討一下第一個9月14回應國科會回應是支持跨域性質的學門研究永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域的學門投入資源有逐年增長剛剛你有說4.8億變成5.2億對吧\n\n14\n00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:14,114\n那我想將與學界共同的探討永續防災以及空間資訊的相關發展\n\n15\n00:05:15,495 --> 00:05:28,059\n那這樣徵詢學界的意見適度的調整當時是被批啊十問虛答後來9月16國科會又再一次的回應並無更動組織跟學門的規劃請該三學門的一個學者放心將儘速召開說明會跟學界還有我們國科會支持\n\n16\n00:05:39,386 --> 00:05:51,162\n跨領域性質的學門研究之立場聽取學界的一個建議那當時好像9月16第二次的聲明才有告一段落請問主委你覺得國科會做法錯了嗎\n\n17\n00:05:54,621 --> 00:06:07,727\n可能是引起誤解啦,我覺得我們學界關心永續學門的發展這個我完全是認同的我們應該要持續來凝聚學界的力量,持續發展\n\n18\n00:06:09,813 --> 00:06:09,833\n羅廷瑋議員\n\n19\n00:06:35,399 --> 00:07:03,601\n已經累積起來的研究的能量是希望協助他們更為健康的發展那對社會的貢獻會更為明顯好我認為國科會在溝通不足的情況下嘗試拆解永續防災還有空間資訊等學問在被嚴正的抗議後試圖以增加經費來安撫不是試圖經費已經早就編列了好那主委整篇書面報告提到了12個跨領域12個跨領域以後沒有列舉大概哪幾個領域\n\n20\n00:07:04,642 --> 00:07:28,099\n至少應該針對各學門跨領域整合列舉預計大概有哪幾個領域才對吧這就好像你去餐廳然後呢沒有menu沒有得選擇然後任由老闆給你吃什麼就吃什麼我想跨領域的研究重要性不言而喻國科會是否有計劃建立一套溝通的機制例如召開定期的召開會議以確保跟學界溝通交流\n\n21\n00:07:29,779 --> 00:07:57,394\n剛剛我們召委范委員已經提醒我們也非常關心我們會有一個比較正式的做法標準的做法不是只有針對這三個學問將來我們所有的處未來針對各個學問都開始會有這樣子的一個固定會議我們一定要公開就是討論公開公平透明的這些機制我們一定會把它建立起來希望我們整個學界都放心這樣\n\n22\n00:07:58,214 --> 00:08:26,110\n我想國科會有沒有清楚的路徑圖知道需要投入的前沿研究是什麼近鄰的永續是不分藍綠的共同目標那麼國科會在這個部分扮演的角色是什麼方向是什麼那個路徑圖有沒有出來大家只能瞎子摸象嗎能不能具體的回應國科會在這些領域中扮演的角色好我請我們林副主委他負責我們的近鄰辦公室\n\n23\n00:08:28,161 --> 00:08:41,111\n委員好,基本上來講我們現在有個近年科技方案的推動小組專門在規劃在行政院的層級各部會還有產業應該怎麼去推動近年科技另一方面我們現在因為總統有召開8月8日有召開氣候變遷的相關的會議\n\n24\n00:08:45,354 --> 00:08:45,635\n以上報告．\n\n25\n00:09:03,112 --> 00:09:24,129\n我想這些技術會如何與產業界需求相銜接確保研究能夠迅速轉為實際應用這是我們非常關切的部分針對這個特定的產業如再生能源經濟循環的相關領域我們設立專門的研究支持機制如果有具體有沒有有沒有這樣子的一個具體實際作為\n\n26\n00:09:25,919 --> 00:09:26,099\n好,好\n\n27\n00:09:52,619 --> 00:10:10,090\n我想學界的研究因為教育部的規定必須盡量去發表論文刊登相關的期刊但產業界的研發則是希望短期性的希望能夠力建效果就是上市場賺錢我想滋養企業才能廣大人才此時政府要做什麼\n\n28\n00:10:10,430 --> 00:10:28,477\n國科會如何在兩者之間找到平衡注進學界產業界的合作這就回到我一開始在問主委你們怎麼去分工嗎那如果在這個部分上如果做成兩邊的橋樑我想國科會是很需要在這個部分下以重力主委您覺得呢\n\n29\n00:10:28,777 --> 00:10:54,415\n我同意委員的看法我想我們跟大家分享有一個鐵證證的案例講一個很成功的案例跟大家分享中研院在新冠肺炎的流行之時成功開發出新冠快篩的抗體但限於設備無法進行量產化中研院釋出了抗體跟產業界合作讓這個產品與業界能夠進行永續不管是開發、量產\n\n30\n00:10:55,856 --> 00:11:17,731\n用於支持國家重大的防疫工作。我想眾人院在這樣研究發表的學術論文之外﹖亦達成善盡社會關鍵的責任任務﹖同時根據科技的基本法規範架構將抗體移轉所獲得的經費按比例分配給發明人研究團隊並投入更多的科學研究\n\n31\n00:11:18,371 --> 00:11:43,960\n此為產學研三營的一個案例但另外一個成功案例我們也是看到都是在新冠疫情由衛生福利部中醫研究所研發出的新冠1號主委您這個都知道嗎?知道我想也許案例跟業界合作專利技術計轉許多的台灣中藥廠商製造中藥複方水煎藥台灣新冠1號銷售國內外主委\n\n32\n00:11:46,201 --> 00:12:11,960\n國科會如何看待這類跨界的合作?我們非常鼓勵也就是說我們的科技研發包含科學的研究以及技術的發展這兩個我們是並重的科學的研究將來可能會產生長期對人類社會的貢獻那技術的發展是對我們產業立即的這個需求提供我們很重要的後盾讓我們的產業發展得很好這個我們都會鼓勵\n\n33\n00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:13,260\n謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6582\t8632\t謝謝主席麻煩有請吳主委有請主委\n15593\t43905\t羅委員好好 主委謝謝今天大家對這個議題其實都滿關注的那也引起不少的風波我想主委國科會主要的任務不外乎第一推動全國整體的科技發展第二資源學術研究第三發展科學園區剛好這些任務教育部跟經濟部都有在做我想請問一下國科會你們與教育部經濟部這兩個部會在研究教學產業發展的一個需求這三個面向是怎麼分工\n44645\t71454\t有分工可以分享一下嗎教育部支持我們全國各學校從大學到小學都有關聯那教學的部分是教育部主政但是研究特別是在大學做前瞻的基礎研究應用研究那是國科會在支持這是教學跟研究那跟經濟部的分工經濟部是注重在產業發展\n72754\t87754\t所以我們國科會我們在管理科學園區的時候科學園區成功的一個很重要關鍵就是科學園區跟大學之間的研究是非常緊密結合因為要發展是科技產業科技產業如果沒有前端的科研是不可能有產業的發展\n88935\t113255\t所以我們跟經濟部就互相協助在發展科學園區的過程當中也把大學的研發能量也結合園區的事業讓園區的科技產業的發展更為蓬勃大概就是這樣的這個分工好那我想問一下請問國科會學術研究的一個產出以結案為來計算一年大概有幾案案件數那個我們眾會數\n119219\t132232\t請我們中衛署來回答跟委員報告如果是在年度執行中的計畫大概一萬五千件好那這些產出確實帶動產業發展的大概有幾案有沒有計算過\n134008\t157827\t這一部分我們不會去計算我們大概有一些叫做產學合作的案子但是也不見得是只有產學合作的案子才會對產業有幫助我們有一些科技研發的成果其實是廠商直接會找學校找教授去做這個技術移轉所以也有一些技術移轉的這個方式那也有一些教授在教學之餘也會去協助產業擔任顧問\n159608\t166853\t您認為學術的產出跟所謂的產業的發展有沒有落差?落差難免是有因為我們支持學術研究不見得全部都是應用型直接連結到產業有些是有社會貢獻有些是純粹科學的研究它是未來可能比較長期才會被社會所使用\n189388\t203685\t所以發展成科技發展成技術所以我們很難去界定說一個學術研究的成果是不是對社會有利己的貢獻對產業有利己貢獻有時候是比較難衡量有些像AI的研究\n204746\t226045\t過去很長的一段時間是社會覺得沒有直接的感受到AI研究的貢獻而是在十幾年前才發現說因為雲端科技因為台灣的半導體發展能夠訓練非常大的這種人工智慧的模型才發現說它的貢獻會非常的大所以有時候是經過長時間的研究累積的成果才會有貢獻的\n227526\t252523\t那我想剛剛有聽到這個主委有一些表態那我想態度都良善但是我還是有一些問題想跟大家請問一起來探討那我想目前國科會日前國科會所你調整的永續三學門遭學界說不重視永續發展而且也發出了相關的聲明第一學術自由與公開討論是永續發展科技核心的一個價值我想這個部分的聲明您大概都有看過\n253163\t281849\t他們也堅決的反對任何由上而下未經公開溝通的獨斷做法第二國科會應正視新政府對永續發展的近鄰挑戰政策任何對永續相關計畫的刪減與調整應公開透明的機制廣泛的跨領域做學界的一個溝通我想並建立一個共識我想這個部分剛剛您有所回應那我們還是希望學界目前所\n283109\t304095\t發聲的這些聲明第一時間我們有看到幾個回應我想跟你探討一下第一個9月14回應國科會回應是支持跨域性質的學門研究永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域的學門投入資源有逐年增長剛剛你有說4.8億變成5.2億對吧\n307639\t314114\t那我想將與學界共同的探討永續防災以及空間資訊的相關發展\n315495\t328059\t那這樣徵詢學界的意見適度的調整當時是被批啊十問虛答後來9月16國科會又再一次的回應並無更動組織跟學門的規劃請該三學門的一個學者放心將儘速召開說明會跟學界還有我們國科會支持\n339386\t351162\t跨領域性質的學門研究之立場聽取學界的一個建議那當時好像9月16第二次的聲明才有告一段落請問主委你覺得國科會做法錯了嗎\n354621\t367727\t可能是引起誤解啦,我覺得我們學界關心永續學門的發展這個我完全是認同的我們應該要持續來凝聚學界的力量,持續發展\n369813\t369833\t羅廷瑋議員\n395399\t423601\t已經累積起來的研究的能量是希望協助他們更為健康的發展那對社會的貢獻會更為明顯好 我認為國科會在溝通不足的情況下嘗試拆解永續防災還有空間資訊等學問在被嚴正的抗議後試圖以增加經費來安撫不是試圖經費已經早就編列了好 那主委整篇書面報告提到了12個跨領域12個跨領域以後沒有列舉大概哪幾個領域\n424642\t448099\t至少應該針對各學門跨領域整合列舉預計大概有哪幾個領域才對吧這就好像你去餐廳然後呢沒有menu沒有得選擇然後任由老闆給你吃什麼就吃什麼我想跨領域的研究重要性不言而喻國科會是否有計劃建立一套溝通的機制例如召開定期的召開會議以確保跟學界溝通交流\n449779\t477394\t剛剛我們召委范委員已經提醒我們也非常關心我們會有一個比較正式的做法標準的做法不是只有針對這三個學問將來我們所有的處未來針對各個學問都開始會有這樣子的一個固定會議我們一定要公開就是討論公開公平透明的這些機制我們一定會把它建立起來希望我們整個學界都放心這樣\n478214\t506110\t我想國科會有沒有清楚的路徑圖知道需要投入的前沿研究是什麼近鄰的永續是不分藍綠的共同目標那麼國科會在這個部分扮演的角色是什麼方向是什麼那個路徑圖有沒有出來大家只能瞎子摸象嗎能不能具體的回應國科會在這些領域中扮演的角色好我請我們林副主委他負責我們的近鄰辦公室\n508161\t521111\t委員好,基本上來講我們現在有個近年科技方案的推動小組專門在規劃在行政院的層級各部會還有產業應該怎麼去推動近年科技另一方面我們現在因為總統有召開8月8日有召開氣候變遷的相關的會議\n525354\t525635\t以上報告．\n543112\t564129\t我想這些技術會如何與產業界需求相銜接確保研究能夠迅速轉為實際應用這是我們非常關切的部分針對這個特定的產業如再生能源經濟循環的相關領域我們設立專門的研究支持機制如果有具體有沒有有沒有這樣子的一個具體實際作為\n565919\t566099\t好,好\n592619\t610090\t我想學界的研究因為教育部的規定必須盡量去發表論文刊登相關的期刊但產業界的研發則是希望短期性的希望能夠力建效果就是上市場賺錢我想滋養企業才能廣大人才此時政府要做什麼\n610430\t628477\t國科會如何在兩者之間找到平衡注進學界產業界的合作這就回到我一開始在問主委你們怎麼去分工嗎那如果在這個部分上如果做成兩邊的橋樑我想國科會是很需要在這個部分下以重力主委您覺得呢\n628777\t654415\t我同意委員的看法我想我們跟大家分享有一個鐵證證的案例講一個很成功的案例跟大家分享中研院在新冠肺炎的流行之時成功開發出新冠快篩的抗體但限於設備無法進行量產化中研院釋出了抗體跟產業界合作讓這個產品與業界能夠進行永續不管是開發、量產\n655856\t677731\t用於支持國家重大的防疫工作。我想眾人院在這樣研究發表的學術論文之外﹖亦達成善盡社會關鍵的責任任務﹖同時根據科技的基本法規範架構將抗體移轉所獲得的經費按比例分配給發明人研究團隊並投入更多的科學研究\n678371\t703960\t此為產學研三營的一個案例但另外一個成功案例我們也是看到都是在新冠疫情由衛生福利部中醫研究所研發出的新冠1號主委您這個都知道嗎?知道我想也許案例跟業界合作專利技術計轉許多的台灣中藥廠商製造中藥複方水煎藥台灣新冠1號銷售國內外主委\n706201\t731960\t國科會如何看待這類跨界的合作?我們非常鼓勵也就是說我們的科技研發包含科學的研究以及技術的發展這兩個我們是並重的科學的研究將來可能會產生長期對人類社會的貢獻那技術的發展是對我們產業立即的這個需求提供我們很重要的後盾讓我們的產業發展得很好這個我們都會鼓勵\n733120\t733260\t謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席麻煩有請吳主委有請主委\n羅委員好好 主委謝謝今天大家對這個議題其實都滿關注的那也引起不少的風波我想主委國科會主要的任務不外乎第一推動全國整體的科技發展第二資源學術研究第三發展科學園區剛好這些任務教育部跟經濟部都有在做我想請問一下國科會你們與教育部經濟部這兩個部會在研究教學產業發展的一個需求這三個面向是怎麼分工\n有分工可以分享一下嗎教育部支持我們全國各學校從大學到小學都有關聯那教學的部分是教育部主政但是研究特別是在大學做前瞻的基礎研究應用研究那是國科會在支持這是教學跟研究那跟經濟部的分工經濟部是注重在產業發展\n所以我們國科會我們在管理科學園區的時候科學園區成功的一個很重要關鍵就是科學園區跟大學之間的研究是非常緊密結合因為要發展是科技產業科技產業如果沒有前端的科研是不可能有產業的發展\n所以我們跟經濟部就互相協助在發展科學園區的過程當中也把大學的研發能量也結合園區的事業讓園區的科技產業的發展更為蓬勃大概就是這樣的這個分工好那我想問一下請問國科會學術研究的一個產出以結案為來計算一年大概有幾案案件數那個我們眾會數\n請我們中衛署來回答跟委員報告如果是在年度執行中的計畫大概一萬五千件好那這些產出確實帶動產業發展的大概有幾案有沒有計算過\n這一部分我們不會去計算我們大概有一些叫做產學合作的案子但是也不見得是只有產學合作的案子才會對產業有幫助我們有一些科技研發的成果其實是廠商直接會找學校找教授去做這個技術移轉所以也有一些技術移轉的這個方式那也有一些教授在教學之餘也會去協助產業擔任顧問\n您認為學術的產出跟所謂的產業的發展有沒有落差?落差難免是有因為我們支持學術研究不見得全部都是應用型直接連結到產業有些是有社會貢獻有些是純粹科學的研究它是未來可能比較長期才會被社會所使用\n所以發展成科技發展成技術所以我們很難去界定說一個學術研究的成果是不是對社會有利己的貢獻對產業有利己貢獻有時候是比較難衡量有些像AI的研究\n過去很長的一段時間是社會覺得沒有直接的感受到AI研究的貢獻而是在十幾年前才發現說因為雲端科技因為台灣的半導體發展能夠訓練非常大的這種人工智慧的模型才發現說它的貢獻會非常的大所以有時候是經過長時間的研究累積的成果才會有貢獻的\n那我想剛剛有聽到這個主委有一些表態那我想態度都良善但是我還是有一些問題想跟大家請問一起來探討那我想目前國科會日前國科會所你調整的永續三學門遭學界說不重視永續發展而且也發出了相關的聲明第一學術自由與公開討論是永續發展科技核心的一個價值我想這個部分的聲明您大概都有看過\n他們也堅決的反對任何由上而下未經公開溝通的獨斷做法第二國科會應正視新政府對永續發展的近鄰挑戰政策任何對永續相關計畫的刪減與調整應公開透明的機制廣泛的跨領域做學界的一個溝通我想並建立一個共識我想這個部分剛剛您有所回應那我們還是希望學界目前所\n發聲的這些聲明第一時間我們有看到幾個回應我想跟你探討一下第一個9月14回應國科會回應是支持跨域性質的學門研究永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域的學門投入資源有逐年增長剛剛你有說4.8億變成5.2億對吧\n那我想將與學界共同的探討永續防災以及空間資訊的相關發展\n那這樣徵詢學界的意見適度的調整當時是被批啊十問虛答後來9月16國科會又再一次的回應並無更動組織跟學門的規劃請該三學門的一個學者放心將儘速召開說明會跟學界還有我們國科會支持\n跨領域性質的學門研究之立場聽取學界的一個建議那當時好像9月16第二次的聲明才有告一段落請問主委你覺得國科會做法錯了嗎\n可能是引起誤解啦,我覺得我們學界關心永續學門的發展這個我完全是認同的我們應該要持續來凝聚學界的力量,持續發展\n羅廷瑋議員\n已經累積起來的研究的能量是希望協助他們更為健康的發展那對社會的貢獻會更為明顯好 我認為國科會在溝通不足的情況下嘗試拆解永續防災還有空間資訊等學問在被嚴正的抗議後試圖以增加經費來安撫不是試圖經費已經早就編列了好 那主委整篇書面報告提到了12個跨領域12個跨領域以後沒有列舉大概哪幾個領域\n至少應該針對各學門跨領域整合列舉預計大概有哪幾個領域才對吧這就好像你去餐廳然後呢沒有menu沒有得選擇然後任由老闆給你吃什麼就吃什麼我想跨領域的研究重要性不言而喻國科會是否有計劃建立一套溝通的機制例如召開定期的召開會議以確保跟學界溝通交流\n剛剛我們召委范委員已經提醒我們也非常關心我們會有一個比較正式的做法標準的做法不是只有針對這三個學問將來我們所有的處未來針對各個學問都開始會有這樣子的一個固定會議我們一定要公開就是討論公開公平透明的這些機制我們一定會把它建立起來希望我們整個學界都放心這樣\n我想國科會有沒有清楚的路徑圖知道需要投入的前沿研究是什麼近鄰的永續是不分藍綠的共同目標那麼國科會在這個部分扮演的角色是什麼方向是什麼那個路徑圖有沒有出來大家只能瞎子摸象嗎能不能具體的回應國科會在這些領域中扮演的角色好我請我們林副主委他負責我們的近鄰辦公室\n委員好,基本上來講我們現在有個近年科技方案的推動小組專門在規劃在行政院的層級各部會還有產業應該怎麼去推動近年科技另一方面我們現在因為總統有召開8月8日有召開氣候變遷的相關的會議\n以上報告．\n我想這些技術會如何與產業界需求相銜接確保研究能夠迅速轉為實際應用這是我們非常關切的部分針對這個特定的產業如再生能源經濟循環的相關領域我們設立專門的研究支持機制如果有具體有沒有有沒有這樣子的一個具體實際作為\n好,好\n我想學界的研究因為教育部的規定必須盡量去發表論文刊登相關的期刊但產業界的研發則是希望短期性的希望能夠力建效果就是上市場賺錢我想滋養企業才能廣大人才此時政府要做什麼\n國科會如何在兩者之間找到平衡注進學界產業界的合作這就回到我一開始在問主委你們怎麼去分工嗎那如果在這個部分上如果做成兩邊的橋樑我想國科會是很需要在這個部分下以重力主委您覺得呢\n我同意委員的看法我想我們跟大家分享有一個鐵證證的案例講一個很成功的案例跟大家分享中研院在新冠肺炎的流行之時成功開發出新冠快篩的抗體但限於設備無法進行量產化中研院釋出了抗體跟產業界合作讓這個產品與業界能夠進行永續不管是開發、量產\n用於支持國家重大的防疫工作。我想眾人院在這樣研究發表的學術論文之外﹖亦達成善盡社會關鍵的責任任務﹖同時根據科技的基本法規範架構將抗體移轉所獲得的經費按比例分配給發明人研究團隊並投入更多的科學研究\n此為產學研三營的一個案例但另外一個成功案例我們也是看到都是在新冠疫情由衛生福利部中醫研究所研發出的新冠1號主委您這個都知道嗎?知道我想也許案例跟業界合作專利技術計轉許多的台灣中藥廠商製造中藥複方水煎藥台灣新冠1號銷售國內外主委\n國科會如何看待這類跨界的合作?我們非常鼓勵也就是說我們的科技研發包含科學的研究以及技術的發展這兩個我們是並重的科學的研究將來可能會產生長期對人類社會的貢獻那技術的發展是對我們產業立即的這個需求提供我們很重要的後盾讓我們的產業發展得很好這個我們都會鼓勵\n謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.582 --> 00:08.632\n謝謝主席麻煩有請吳主委有請主委\n\n00:15.593 --> 00:43.905\n羅委員好好主委謝謝今天大家對這個議題其實都滿關注的那也引起不少的風波我想主委國科會主要的任務不外乎第一推動全國整體的科技發展第二資源學術研究第三發展科學園區剛好這些任務教育部跟經濟部都有在做我想請問一下國科會你們與教育部經濟部這兩個部會在研究教學產業發展的一個需求這三個面向是怎麼分工\n\n00:44.645 --> 01:11.454\n有分工可以分享一下嗎教育部支持我們全國各學校從大學到小學都有關聯那教學的部分是教育部主政但是研究特別是在大學做前瞻的基礎研究應用研究那是國科會在支持這是教學跟研究那跟經濟部的分工經濟部是注重在產業發展\n\n01:12.754 --> 01:27.754\n所以我們國科會我們在管理科學園區的時候科學園區成功的一個很重要關鍵就是科學園區跟大學之間的研究是非常緊密結合因為要發展是科技產業科技產業如果沒有前端的科研是不可能有產業的發展\n\n01:28.935 --> 01:53.255\n所以我們跟經濟部就互相協助在發展科學園區的過程當中也把大學的研發能量也結合園區的事業讓園區的科技產業的發展更為蓬勃大概就是這樣的這個分工好那我想問一下請問國科會學術研究的一個產出以結案為來計算一年大概有幾案案件數那個我們眾會數\n\n01:59.219 --> 02:12.232\n請我們中衛署來回答跟委員報告如果是在年度執行中的計畫大概一萬五千件好那這些產出確實帶動產業發展的大概有幾案有沒有計算過\n\n02:14.008 --> 02:37.827\n這一部分我們不會去計算我們大概有一些叫做產學合作的案子但是也不見得是只有產學合作的案子才會對產業有幫助我們有一些科技研發的成果其實是廠商直接會找學校找教授去做這個技術移轉所以也有一些技術移轉的這個方式那也有一些教授在教學之餘也會去協助產業擔任顧問\n\n02:39.608 --> 02:46.853\n您認為學術的產出跟所謂的產業的發展有沒有落差?落差難免是有因為我們支持學術研究不見得全部都是應用型直接連結到產業有些是有社會貢獻有些是純粹科學的研究它是未來可能比較長期才會被社會所使用\n\n03:09.388 --> 03:23.685\n所以發展成科技發展成技術所以我們很難去界定說一個學術研究的成果是不是對社會有利己的貢獻對產業有利己貢獻有時候是比較難衡量有些像AI的研究\n\n03:24.746 --> 03:46.045\n過去很長的一段時間是社會覺得沒有直接的感受到AI研究的貢獻而是在十幾年前才發現說因為雲端科技因為台灣的半導體發展能夠訓練非常大的這種人工智慧的模型才發現說它的貢獻會非常的大所以有時候是經過長時間的研究累積的成果才會有貢獻的\n\n03:47.526 --> 04:12.523\n那我想剛剛有聽到這個主委有一些表態那我想態度都良善但是我還是有一些問題想跟大家請問一起來探討那我想目前國科會日前國科會所你調整的永續三學門遭學界說不重視永續發展而且也發出了相關的聲明第一學術自由與公開討論是永續發展科技核心的一個價值我想這個部分的聲明您大概都有看過\n\n04:13.163 --> 04:41.849\n他們也堅決的反對任何由上而下未經公開溝通的獨斷做法第二國科會應正視新政府對永續發展的近鄰挑戰政策任何對永續相關計畫的刪減與調整應公開透明的機制廣泛的跨領域做學界的一個溝通我想並建立一個共識我想這個部分剛剛您有所回應那我們還是希望學界目前所\n\n04:43.109 --> 05:04.095\n發聲的這些聲明第一時間我們有看到幾個回應我想跟你探討一下第一個9月14回應國科會回應是支持跨域性質的學門研究永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域的學門投入資源有逐年增長剛剛你有說4.8億變成5.2億對吧\n\n05:07.639 --> 05:14.114\n那我想將與學界共同的探討永續防災以及空間資訊的相關發展\n\n05:15.495 --> 05:28.059\n那這樣徵詢學界的意見適度的調整當時是被批啊十問虛答後來9月16國科會又再一次的回應並無更動組織跟學門的規劃請該三學門的一個學者放心將儘速召開說明會跟學界還有我們國科會支持\n\n05:39.386 --> 05:51.162\n跨領域性質的學門研究之立場聽取學界的一個建議那當時好像9月16第二次的聲明才有告一段落請問主委你覺得國科會做法錯了嗎\n\n05:54.621 --> 06:07.727\n可能是引起誤解啦,我覺得我們學界關心永續學門的發展這個我完全是認同的我們應該要持續來凝聚學界的力量,持續發展\n\n06:09.813 --> 06:09.833\n羅廷瑋議員\n\n06:35.399 --> 07:03.601\n已經累積起來的研究的能量是希望協助他們更為健康的發展那對社會的貢獻會更為明顯好我認為國科會在溝通不足的情況下嘗試拆解永續防災還有空間資訊等學問在被嚴正的抗議後試圖以增加經費來安撫不是試圖經費已經早就編列了好那主委整篇書面報告提到了12個跨領域12個跨領域以後沒有列舉大概哪幾個領域\n\n07:04.642 --> 07:28.099\n至少應該針對各學門跨領域整合列舉預計大概有哪幾個領域才對吧這就好像你去餐廳然後呢沒有menu沒有得選擇然後任由老闆給你吃什麼就吃什麼我想跨領域的研究重要性不言而喻國科會是否有計劃建立一套溝通的機制例如召開定期的召開會議以確保跟學界溝通交流\n\n07:29.779 --> 07:57.394\n剛剛我們召委范委員已經提醒我們也非常關心我們會有一個比較正式的做法標準的做法不是只有針對這三個學問將來我們所有的處未來針對各個學問都開始會有這樣子的一個固定會議我們一定要公開就是討論公開公平透明的這些機制我們一定會把它建立起來希望我們整個學界都放心這樣\n\n07:58.214 --> 08:26.110\n我想國科會有沒有清楚的路徑圖知道需要投入的前沿研究是什麼近鄰的永續是不分藍綠的共同目標那麼國科會在這個部分扮演的角色是什麼方向是什麼那個路徑圖有沒有出來大家只能瞎子摸象嗎能不能具體的回應國科會在這些領域中扮演的角色好我請我們林副主委他負責我們的近鄰辦公室\n\n08:28.161 --> 08:41.111\n委員好,基本上來講我們現在有個近年科技方案的推動小組專門在規劃在行政院的層級各部會還有產業應該怎麼去推動近年科技另一方面我們現在因為總統有召開8月8日有召開氣候變遷的相關的會議\n\n08:45.354 --> 08:45.635\n以上報告．\n\n09:03.112 --> 09:24.129\n我想這些技術會如何與產業界需求相銜接確保研究能夠迅速轉為實際應用這是我們非常關切的部分針對這個特定的產業如再生能源經濟循環的相關領域我們設立專門的研究支持機制如果有具體有沒有有沒有這樣子的一個具體實際作為\n\n09:25.919 --> 09:26.099\n好,好\n\n09:52.619 --> 10:10.090\n我想學界的研究因為教育部的規定必須盡量去發表論文刊登相關的期刊但產業界的研發則是希望短期性的希望能夠力建效果就是上市場賺錢我想滋養企業才能廣大人才此時政府要做什麼\n\n10:10.430 --> 10:28.477\n國科會如何在兩者之間找到平衡注進學界產業界的合作這就回到我一開始在問主委你們怎麼去分工嗎那如果在這個部分上如果做成兩邊的橋樑我想國科會是很需要在這個部分下以重力主委您覺得呢\n\n10:28.777 --> 10:54.415\n我同意委員的看法我想我們跟大家分享有一個鐵證證的案例講一個很成功的案例跟大家分享中研院在新冠肺炎的流行之時成功開發出新冠快篩的抗體但限於設備無法進行量產化中研院釋出了抗體跟產業界合作讓這個產品與業界能夠進行永續不管是開發、量產\n\n10:55.856 --> 11:17.731\n用於支持國家重大的防疫工作。我想眾人院在這樣研究發表的學術論文之外﹖亦達成善盡社會關鍵的責任任務﹖同時根據科技的基本法規範架構將抗體移轉所獲得的經費按比例分配給發明人研究團隊並投入更多的科學研究\n\n11:18.371 --> 11:43.960\n此為產學研三營的一個案例但另外一個成功案例我們也是看到都是在新冠疫情由衛生福利部中醫研究所研發出的新冠1號主委您這個都知道嗎?知道我想也許案例跟業界合作專利技術計轉許多的台灣中藥廠商製造中藥複方水煎藥台灣新冠1號銷售國內外主委\n\n11:46.201 --> 12:11.960\n國科會如何看待這類跨界的合作?我們非常鼓勵也就是說我們的科技研發包含科學的研究以及技術的發展這兩個我們是並重的科學的研究將來可能會產生長期對人類社會的貢獻那技術的發展是對我們產業立即的這個需求提供我們很重要的後盾讓我們的產業發展得很好這個我們都會鼓勵\n\n12:13.120 --> 12:13.260\n謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.582,"end":8.632,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩有請吳主委有請主委"},{"start":15.593,"end":43.905,"text":"羅委員好好 主委謝謝今天大家對這個議題其實都滿關注的那也引起不少的風波我想主委國科會主要的任務不外乎第一推動全國整體的科技發展第二資源學術研究第三發展科學園區剛好這些任務教育部跟經濟部都有在做我想請問一下國科會你們與教育部經濟部這兩個部會在研究教學產業發展的一個需求這三個面向是怎麼分工"},{"start":44.645,"end":71.454,"text":"有分工可以分享一下嗎教育部支持我們全國各學校從大學到小學都有關聯那教學的部分是教育部主政但是研究特別是在大學做前瞻的基礎研究應用研究那是國科會在支持這是教學跟研究那跟經濟部的分工經濟部是注重在產業發展"},{"start":72.754,"end":87.754,"text":"所以我們國科會我們在管理科學園區的時候科學園區成功的一個很重要關鍵就是科學園區跟大學之間的研究是非常緊密結合因為要發展是科技產業科技產業如果沒有前端的科研是不可能有產業的發展"},{"start":88.935,"end":113.255,"text":"所以我們跟經濟部就互相協助在發展科學園區的過程當中也把大學的研發能量也結合園區的事業讓園區的科技產業的發展更為蓬勃大概就是這樣的這個分工好那我想問一下請問國科會學術研究的一個產出以結案為來計算一年大概有幾案案件數那個我們眾會數"},{"start":119.219,"end":132.232,"text":"請我們中衛署來回答跟委員報告如果是在年度執行中的計畫大概一萬五千件好那這些產出確實帶動產業發展的大概有幾案有沒有計算過"},{"start":134.008,"end":157.827,"text":"這一部分我們不會去計算我們大概有一些叫做產學合作的案子但是也不見得是只有產學合作的案子才會對產業有幫助我們有一些科技研發的成果其實是廠商直接會找學校找教授去做這個技術移轉所以也有一些技術移轉的這個方式那也有一些教授在教學之餘也會去協助產業擔任顧問"},{"start":159.608,"end":166.853,"text":"您認為學術的產出跟所謂的產業的發展有沒有落差?落差難免是有因為我們支持學術研究不見得全部都是應用型直接連結到產業有些是有社會貢獻有些是純粹科學的研究它是未來可能比較長期才會被社會所使用"},{"start":189.388,"end":203.685,"text":"所以發展成科技發展成技術所以我們很難去界定說一個學術研究的成果是不是對社會有利己的貢獻對產業有利己貢獻有時候是比較難衡量有些像AI的研究"},{"start":204.746,"end":226.045,"text":"過去很長的一段時間是社會覺得沒有直接的感受到AI研究的貢獻而是在十幾年前才發現說因為雲端科技因為台灣的半導體發展能夠訓練非常大的這種人工智慧的模型才發現說它的貢獻會非常的大所以有時候是經過長時間的研究累積的成果才會有貢獻的"},{"start":227.526,"end":252.523,"text":"那我想剛剛有聽到這個主委有一些表態那我想態度都良善但是我還是有一些問題想跟大家請問一起來探討那我想目前國科會日前國科會所你調整的永續三學門遭學界說不重視永續發展而且也發出了相關的聲明第一學術自由與公開討論是永續發展科技核心的一個價值我想這個部分的聲明您大概都有看過"},{"start":253.163,"end":281.849,"text":"他們也堅決的反對任何由上而下未經公開溝通的獨斷做法第二國科會應正視新政府對永續發展的近鄰挑戰政策任何對永續相關計畫的刪減與調整應公開透明的機制廣泛的跨領域做學界的一個溝通我想並建立一個共識我想這個部分剛剛您有所回應那我們還是希望學界目前所"},{"start":283.109,"end":304.095,"text":"發聲的這些聲明第一時間我們有看到幾個回應我想跟你探討一下第一個9月14回應國科會回應是支持跨域性質的學門研究永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域的學門投入資源有逐年增長剛剛你有說4.8億變成5.2億對吧"},{"start":307.639,"end":314.114,"text":"那我想將與學界共同的探討永續防災以及空間資訊的相關發展"},{"start":315.495,"end":328.059,"text":"那這樣徵詢學界的意見適度的調整當時是被批啊十問虛答後來9月16國科會又再一次的回應並無更動組織跟學門的規劃請該三學門的一個學者放心將儘速召開說明會跟學界還有我們國科會支持"},{"start":339.386,"end":351.162,"text":"跨領域性質的學門研究之立場聽取學界的一個建議那當時好像9月16第二次的聲明才有告一段落請問主委你覺得國科會做法錯了嗎"},{"start":354.621,"end":367.727,"text":"可能是引起誤解啦,我覺得我們學界關心永續學門的發展這個我完全是認同的我們應該要持續來凝聚學界的力量,持續發展"},{"start":369.813,"end":369.833,"text":"羅廷瑋議員"},{"start":395.399,"end":423.601,"text":"已經累積起來的研究的能量是希望協助他們更為健康的發展那對社會的貢獻會更為明顯好 我認為國科會在溝通不足的情況下嘗試拆解永續防災還有空間資訊等學問在被嚴正的抗議後試圖以增加經費來安撫不是試圖經費已經早就編列了好 那主委整篇書面報告提到了12個跨領域12個跨領域以後沒有列舉大概哪幾個領域"},{"start":424.642,"end":448.099,"text":"至少應該針對各學門跨領域整合列舉預計大概有哪幾個領域才對吧這就好像你去餐廳然後呢沒有menu沒有得選擇然後任由老闆給你吃什麼就吃什麼我想跨領域的研究重要性不言而喻國科會是否有計劃建立一套溝通的機制例如召開定期的召開會議以確保跟學界溝通交流"},{"start":449.779,"end":477.394,"text":"剛剛我們召委范委員已經提醒我們也非常關心我們會有一個比較正式的做法標準的做法不是只有針對這三個學問將來我們所有的處未來針對各個學問都開始會有這樣子的一個固定會議我們一定要公開就是討論公開公平透明的這些機制我們一定會把它建立起來希望我們整個學界都放心這樣"},{"start":478.214,"end":506.11,"text":"我想國科會有沒有清楚的路徑圖知道需要投入的前沿研究是什麼近鄰的永續是不分藍綠的共同目標那麼國科會在這個部分扮演的角色是什麼方向是什麼那個路徑圖有沒有出來大家只能瞎子摸象嗎能不能具體的回應國科會在這些領域中扮演的角色好我請我們林副主委他負責我們的近鄰辦公室"},{"start":508.161,"end":521.111,"text":"委員好,基本上來講我們現在有個近年科技方案的推動小組專門在規劃在行政院的層級各部會還有產業應該怎麼去推動近年科技另一方面我們現在因為總統有召開8月8日有召開氣候變遷的相關的會議"},{"start":525.354,"end":525.635,"text":"以上報告．"},{"start":543.112,"end":564.129,"text":"我想這些技術會如何與產業界需求相銜接確保研究能夠迅速轉為實際應用這是我們非常關切的部分針對這個特定的產業如再生能源經濟循環的相關領域我們設立專門的研究支持機制如果有具體有沒有有沒有這樣子的一個具體實際作為"},{"start":565.919,"end":566.099,"text":"好,好"},{"start":592.619,"end":610.09,"text":"我想學界的研究因為教育部的規定必須盡量去發表論文刊登相關的期刊但產業界的研發則是希望短期性的希望能夠力建效果就是上市場賺錢我想滋養企業才能廣大人才此時政府要做什麼"},{"start":610.43,"end":628.477,"text":"國科會如何在兩者之間找到平衡注進學界產業界的合作這就回到我一開始在問主委你們怎麼去分工嗎那如果在這個部分上如果做成兩邊的橋樑我想國科會是很需要在這個部分下以重力主委您覺得呢"},{"start":628.777,"end":654.415,"text":"我同意委員的看法我想我們跟大家分享有一個鐵證證的案例講一個很成功的案例跟大家分享中研院在新冠肺炎的流行之時成功開發出新冠快篩的抗體但限於設備無法進行量產化中研院釋出了抗體跟產業界合作讓這個產品與業界能夠進行永續不管是開發、量產"},{"start":655.856,"end":677.731,"text":"用於支持國家重大的防疫工作。我想眾人院在這樣研究發表的學術論文之外﹖亦達成善盡社會關鍵的責任任務﹖同時根據科技的基本法規範架構將抗體移轉所獲得的經費按比例分配給發明人研究團隊並投入更多的科學研究"},{"start":678.371,"end":703.96,"text":"此為產學研三營的一個案例但另外一個成功案例我們也是看到都是在新冠疫情由衛生福利部中醫研究所研發出的新冠1號主委您這個都知道嗎?知道我想也許案例跟業界合作專利技術計轉許多的台灣中藥廠商製造中藥複方水煎藥台灣新冠1號銷售國內外主委"},{"start":706.201,"end":731.96,"text":"國科會如何看待這類跨界的合作?我們非常鼓勵也就是說我們的科技研發包含科學的研究以及技術的發展這兩個我們是並重的科學的研究將來可能會產生長期對人類社會的貢獻那技術的發展是對我們產業立即的這個需求提供我們很重要的後盾讓我們的產業發展得很好這個我們都會鼓勵"},{"start":733.12,"end":733.26,"text":"謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:31:33 - 10:44:14","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【9月30日及10月3日二天一次會】）","id":154964,"gazette":{"lineno":559,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（10時31分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請吳主委。"],["主席：有請主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：主委，謝謝。今天大家對這個議題都滿關注的，也引起不少風波，我想國科會主要的任務不外乎，第一，推動全國整體的科技發展；第二，支援學術研究；第三，發展科學園區。剛好這些任務，教育部跟經濟部都有在做，我想請問一下國科會，你們與教育部、經濟部這兩個部會，在研究、教學、產業發展的需求這三個面向上是怎麼分工？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有分工。"],["羅委員廷瑋：可以分享一下嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。教育部支持我們全國各學校，從大學到小學都有關聯，教學的部分是教育部主政；但是研究，特別是在大學做前瞻的基礎研究、應用研究，那是國科會在支持，這是教學跟研究的分工。至於跟經濟部的分工，經濟部是注重在產業發展，所以我們國科會在管理科學園區的時候，科學園區成功的一個很重要的關鍵就是，科學園區跟大學之間的研究是非常緊密結合，因為要發展的是科技產業，科技產業如果沒有前端的科研是不可能有產業的發展，所以我們跟經濟部就互相協助，在發展科學園區的過程當中，也把大學的研發能量結合園區的事業，讓園區內科技產業的發展更為蓬勃，大概就是這樣的分工。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。我想請問一下國科會，學術研究的產出，以結案來計算，一年大概有幾案？"],["吳主任委員誠文：案件數那個部分，請本會綜規處來回答。"],["彭處長麗春：跟委員報告，如果是在年度執行中的計畫，大概一萬五千件。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。那這些產出確實帶動產業發展的大概有幾案，有沒有計算過？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這一部分我們不會去計算，我們大概有一些產學合作的案子，但是也不見得只有產學合作的案子才會對產業有幫助；我們有一些科技研發的成果，其實是廠商直接會找學校、找教授去做技術移轉，所以也有一些是透過技術移轉的方式；也有一些教授，在教學之餘也會去協助產業擔任顧問，協助他們……"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你個人認為，你覺得學術的產出跟產業的發展有沒有落差？"],["吳主任委員誠文：落差難免有，因為我們支持學術研究不見得全部都是應用型，能夠直接連結到產業，有些是有社會貢獻，有些是純粹科學的研究，它是未來可能比較長期才會被社會所使用發展成技術，所以我們很難去界定說一個學術研究的成果是不是對社會有立即的貢獻或者對產業有立即的貢獻，有時候是比較難衡量。有些像AI的研究，過去很長的一段時間社會並沒有直接的感受到AI研究的貢獻，而是在十幾年前才發現，因為雲端科技，因為臺灣的半導體發展，能夠訓練非常大的這種人工智慧的模型，才發現它的貢獻會非常的大，所以有時候是經過長時間的研究累積的成果才會有貢獻。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好的。剛剛聽到主委有一些表態，我想態度都是良善的，但是我還是有一些問題想跟大家一起來探討。日前國科會所擬調整的永續三學門，遭學界說不重視永續發展，而且也發出了相關的聲明：「第一，學術自由與公開討論是永續科技發展的核心價值」，我想這個部分的聲明，您大概都有看過？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：他們也「堅決反對任何由上而下、未經公開溝通的獨斷作法。第二，國科會應正視新政府對永續發展與淨零挑戰的政策，任何針對永續相關計畫的刪減與調整，應透過公開透明的機制，與廣泛的跨領域學界溝通，並建立共識。」我想這個部分剛剛您有所回應，我們還是希望學界目前所發出的這些聲明，第一時間我們有看到幾個回應，我想跟你探討一下。第一個，9月14日國科會回應表示，支持跨域性質的學門研究，永續防災與空間資訊等跨領域的學門投入資源有逐年增長，剛剛你有說從4.8億變成5.2億，對吧？並表示將與學界共同探討永續防災以及空間資訊的相關發展，徵詢學界的意見適度的調整。國科會14日的回應被批是實問虛答，後來9月16日國科會又再一次回應表示，並無更動組織跟學門的規劃，請該三學門的學者放心，將儘速召開說明會向學界說明國科會持續支持跨領域性質學門及研究的立場，並聽取學界建言。當時好像是在9月16日國科會第二次的聲明之後，連署事件才告一段落。請問主委，你覺得國科會的作法錯了嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：可能是引起誤解，我覺得我們學界關心永續學門的發展，這個我完全是認同的，我們應該要持續來凝聚學界的力量，針對這些永續的議題，持續發展解決的方案。我們在會內，其實針對這個連署我們也立即反應，我們不會改變現在這個學門的狀況，自然處將來也會持續來協助這三個學門的發展，既然我們的經費已經逐年增加，所以當然絕對不會放棄這三個學門已經累積起來的研究能量，只是希望協助他們更為健康的發展，這樣對社會的貢獻會更為明顯。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。我認為國科會在溝通不足的情況下，嘗試拆解永續、防災及空間資訊等學門，在被嚴正的抗議後，試圖以增加經費來安撫。"],["吳主任委員誠文：不是試圖，經費已經早就編列了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。主委，您在整篇書面報告提到了十二個跨領域，十二個跨領域後沒有列舉大概哪幾個領域，至少應該針對各學門跨領域整合列舉，預計大概有哪幾個領域才對吧？這就好像你去了餐廳，然後沒有menu，沒有得選擇，然後任由老闆給你吃什麼就吃什麼。我想跨領域研究的重要性不言而喻，國科會是否有計畫建立一套溝通的機制，例如定期的召開會議，以確保跟學界的溝通交流？"],["吳主任委員誠文：剛剛召委范委員已經提醒我們，我們會朝這個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：也非常關心，對。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是是是，我們會有一個比較正式的作法、標準的作法，不是只有針對這三個學門，將來我們所有的處……"],["羅委員廷瑋：是，未來牽涉到的學門都開始會有這樣子，會有固定的會議？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，我們就是一定要公開討論嘛，這些公開、公平、透明的機制，我們一定會把它建立起來，希望我們整個學界都放心。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。我想國科會有沒有清楚的路徑圖，知道需要投入的前沿研究是什麼？淨零永續是不分藍綠的共同目標，那麼國科會在這個部分扮演的角色是什麼、方向是什麼，那個路徑圖有沒有出來，大家只能瞎子摸象嗎？能不能具體的回應，國科會在這些領域中扮演的角色。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，我請林副主委說明，他負責我們的淨零辦公室。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。"],["林副主任委員法正：委員好，基本上我們現在有個淨零科技方案的推動小組專門規劃在行政院的層級，各部會還有產業應該怎麼去推動淨零科技。另一方面，因為總統8月8日有召開氣候變遷相關的會議，所以我們現在在推動一個氣候變遷調適科研，我們也有一個推動小組現在在進行當中，應該是明年會成案，所以我們會同時從淨零科技，還有氣候變遷調適科研這兩個方向來推動，這是國科會應該做的事情，以上報告。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想這些技術如何與產業界需求相銜接，確保研究能夠迅速轉為實際應用，這是我們非常關切的部分。針對這個特定的產業，如再生能源、經濟循環的相關領域，我們設立專門的研究支持機制，具體有沒有？有沒有這樣子的一個具體實際作為？"],["林副主任委員法正：我們淨零科技推動小組現在有規劃幾個複合式的議題，這個議題推出來之後，我們會要求各部會要照這個推動的內容去編列預算，我們這些議題其實都是找國內相關的學者，還有產業界來談……"],["羅委員廷瑋：產業界也有？"],["林副主任委員法正：對，談出臺灣最需要的淨零科技，以上補充。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，我想學界的研究，因為教育部的規定，必須儘量去發表論文、刊登相關的期刊，但產業界的研發案則是希望短期性的，希望能夠立見效果，就是上市場賺錢。我想滋養企業才能廣納人才，此時政府要做什麼？國科會如何在兩者之間找到平衡，促進學界、產業界的合作？這就回到我一開始在問主委的，你們怎麼去分工嘛？在這個部分上，如果做成兩邊的橋梁，我想國科會是很需要在這個部分下以重力，主委覺得呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我同意，同意委員的看法。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們跟大家分享一個鐵錚錚的案例，講一個很成功的案例跟大家分享。中研院在新冠肺炎的流行之時，成功開發出新冠快篩的抗體，但是限於設備無法進行量產化，中研院釋出了抗體跟產業界合作，讓這個產品與業界能夠進行永續，不管是開發、量產，用於支持國家重大的防疫工作，我想中研院在這樣研究發表的學術論文之外，亦達成善盡社會關鍵的責任任務，同時根據科技的基本法規範架構，將抗體移轉所獲得的經費按比例分配給發明人、研究團隊，並投入更多的科學研究，實為產、學、研三贏的一個案例。但另外一個成功案例，我們也看到都是在新冠疫情，由衛生福利部中醫研究所研發出的清冠一號。主委，您這個都知道嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：知道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想也循案例跟業界合作，專利技術技轉，許多的臺灣中藥廠商製造中藥複方水煎藥、臺灣清冠一號銷售國內外。主委，國科會如何看待這類跨界的合作？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們非常鼓勵，也就是我們的科技研發包含科學的研究以及技術的發展，這兩個我們是並重的，科學的研究將來可能會產生長期對人類社會的貢獻，技術的發展是對我們產業立即的需求，提供很重要的後盾，讓我們的產業發展得很好，這個我們都會鼓勵。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，所以今天我們舉出案例然後探討，我們真的很希望主委這個態度一定要做好，對學界的溝通、對於產業界溝通一定要重視，我想後續做出一些補償，亡羊補牢的動作，你剛剛也有答應，我們希望能夠看到具體的、實際的而且永續的，跟產學界一起好好的坐下來談一談。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，同意，謝謝委員。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。"],["主席：好，吳主委請回，謝謝羅廷瑋委員質詢。","我們再來請葛如鈞委員質詢，等一下吳沛憶委員質詢完，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","葉元之","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","張雅琳","林宜瑾","洪申翰","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","翁曉玲","游顥"],"page_start":217,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00012"}}}