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329.039, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 329.039, \"end\": 329.319, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"惠\", \"start\": 329.319, \"end\": 329.339, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 330.24, \"end\": 332.201, \"text\": \"我相信未來幾年我們排名會逐步的上升會進到全世界的前段班\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 330.24, \"end\": 330.28, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 330.28, \"end\": 330.4, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 330.4, \"end\": 330.48, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 330.48, \"end\": 330.58, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 330.58, \"end\": 330.6, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 330.6, \"end\": 330.7, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 330.7, \"end\": 330.8, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 330.8, \"end\": 330.82, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 330.82, \"end\": 330.86, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"步\", 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\"我相信因為半導體已經是我們的優勢了所以有能夠應用到AI產業我們其實是有相當的競爭力跟未來的潛力發展的我在看我們幾個數字一個是我們的準備度我們的排名當然目前是在第19名\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 349.305, \"end\": 349.466, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 349.466, \"end\": 349.666, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 349.666, \"end\": 349.826, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 349.826, \"end\": 349.846, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 349.846, \"end\": 349.866, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 349.866, \"end\": 349.986, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 349.986, \"end\": 350.006, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 350.006, \"end\": 350.026, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 350.026, \"end\": 350.046, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 350.046, \"end\": 350.086, \"score\": 0.034}, {\"word\": \"所\", 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\"start\": 350.927, \"end\": 350.947, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 350.947, \"end\": 350.967, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 350.967, \"end\": 350.987, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 350.987, \"end\": 351.067, \"score\": 0.592}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 351.067, \"end\": 351.087, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 351.087, \"end\": 351.167, \"score\": 0.544}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 351.167, \"end\": 351.248, \"score\": 0.631}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 351.248, \"end\": 351.288, \"score\": 0.007}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 351.288, \"end\": 351.308, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 351.308, \"end\": 351.428, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 351.428, \"end\": 351.728, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 351.728, \"end\": 352.349, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 352.349, \"end\": 352.369, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 352.369, \"end\": 352.389, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 352.389, \"end\": 352.429, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 352.429, \"end\": 352.449, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 352.449, \"end\": 352.469, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 352.469, \"end\": 352.489, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 352.489, \"end\": 352.509, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 367.865, \"end\": 390.72, \"text\": \"但是跟中國來比較,111年度我們甚至曾經一度領先中國所以我想它是動態性的發展所以你剛剛講的我們現在的準備跟規劃其實就要朝向中長期的就要開始來投入了嘛對不對那以算力來說我比較關切的是我們超級電腦的這個算力它也有一個排名嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 367.865, \"end\": 368.005, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 368.005, \"end\": 368.606, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 368.606, \"end\": 368.786, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 368.786, \"end\": 369.366, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 369.366, \"end\": 370.507, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 370.507, \"end\": 370.747, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 370.747, \"end\": 370.887, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 370.887, \"end\": 371.167, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 371.167, \"end\": 371.608, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 371.608, \"end\": 371.868, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"曾\", \"start\": 371.868, \"end\": 372.308, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 372.308, \"end\": 372.468, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 372.468, \"end\": 372.808, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"領\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 372.808, \"end\": 373.049, 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\"你\", \"start\": 376.171, \"end\": 376.651, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 376.651, \"end\": 376.771, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 376.771, \"end\": 377.371, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 377.371, \"end\": 377.611, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 377.611, \"end\": 378.072, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 378.072, \"end\": 378.472, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 378.472, \"end\": 379.393, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 379.393, \"end\": 379.593, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 379.593, \"end\": 379.673, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 379.673, \"end\": 379.853, \"score\": 0.593}, {\"word\": \"朝\", \"start\": 379.853, \"end\": 380.033, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"向\", 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\"start\": 383.335, \"end\": 383.495, \"score\": 0.62}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 383.495, \"end\": 383.715, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 383.715, \"end\": 383.936, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 383.936, \"end\": 384.716, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 384.716, \"end\": 384.856, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 384.856, \"end\": 385.437, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"切\", \"start\": 385.437, \"end\": 385.637, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 385.637, \"end\": 385.857, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 385.857, \"end\": 386.377, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 386.377, \"end\": 386.677, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 386.677, \"end\": 387.438, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"腦\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 387.438, \"end\": 388.178, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 388.178, \"end\": 388.478, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 388.478, \"end\": 389.439, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 389.439, \"end\": 389.639, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 389.639, \"end\": 389.799, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 389.799, \"end\": 389.959, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 389.959, \"end\": 390.24, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 390.24, \"end\": 390.5, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 390.5, \"end\": 390.7, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 390.7, \"end\": 390.72, \"score\": 0.006}]}, {\"start\": 392.481, \"end\": 420.458, \"text\": \"回答在去年來建制的這個超級電腦目前的排名是全球全球是第38名但是我們國科會自己的台灣三二號台灣三三號都目前都是在百名以外我看你們這個台灣三二號是2018年建制的所以時間也算是久因為這個就是在跟時間賽跑對已經五年了所以我們要加進來我們打算怎麼樣來加強\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 392.481, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 747.015, \"end\": 747.236, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 747.236, \"end\": 747.396, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 747.396, \"end\": 748.056, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 748.056, \"end\": 748.477, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 748.477, \"end\": 748.657, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 748.657, \"end\": 748.757, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 748.757, \"end\": 748.937, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 748.937, \"end\": 749.077, \"score\": 0.623}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 749.077, \"end\": 749.277, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 749.277, \"end\": 749.397, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 749.397, \"end\": 749.558, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 749.558, \"end\": 750.178, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 750.178, \"end\": 750.198, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 750.198, \"end\": 750.278, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 750.278, \"end\": 750.438, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 750.438, \"end\": 750.599, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 750.599, \"end\": 750.699, \"score\": 0.613}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 750.699, \"end\": 750.739, \"score\": 0.332}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 750.739, \"end\": 750.939, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 750.939, \"end\": 751.059, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 751.059, \"end\": 751.079, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 751.079, \"end\": 751.199, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 751.199, \"end\": 751.219, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 751.219, \"end\": 751.239, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,090\n主委好所以剛剛前面的委員問你說沒有能源就沒有AI其實沒有預算也更不可能有AI所以我替你覺得很辛苦這個科學理性還要有務實現在野黨的立委\n\n2\n00:00:23,164 --> 00:00:41,983\n又要擋預算剛剛又要你們做一堆工作沒有預算要怎麼做所以你們在備詢的時候你們要理性務實的把你們遇到的困難要來向委員以及市民報告因為我們站在這個你站在備詢台我站在質詢台你不只對立委負責\n\n3\n00:00:42,543 --> 00:01:04,604\n你是對全國的人民負責,都要清楚的去把它說明那接下來在進入今天專題報告這個討論之前因為我看到一個新聞相當擔憂想跟主委先請教有媒體報導說中國的半導體有可能技術已經追趕到不只落後台灣三年\n\n4\n00:01:05,913 --> 00:01:08,795\n中國在近年之內有可能半導體的技術追趕上台灣嗎?我認為十年以上了,落差\n\n5\n00:01:34,306 --> 00:01:39,145\n目前的落差至少10年以上中國半導體晶片現在是幾奈米?\n\n6\n00:01:41,148 --> 00:01:41,188\n吳沛憶吳沛憶\n\n7\n00:02:12,252 --> 00:02:37,290\n在這個學界引起很大的討論那因為前面委員剛也討論很多我直接進結論請教一下我們現在有關於永續發展科學防災科技、空間資訊科技等三個學門有沒有要進行整併或者是調整沒有沒有嘛好那這三個學門我們要繼續的來支持在預算方面有沒有進行調整\n\n8\n00:02:38,089 --> 00:02:59,674\n有,我們其實早就編好了明年的預算,今年的預算3個學門4.8億,我們明年已經編到5.2億了所以我們是持續在支持所以我們預算會持續來增加對,已經編列了,希望不要被刪減好,所以學門不會調整,預算要增加,這個也是我希望看到的方向但是啊,但是啊\n\n9\n00:03:01,035 --> 00:03:22,436\n這個不能只看結果,過程當中我相信剛剛前面很多委員都提醒了在整個學界社群當中的參與討論各方的諮詢公開的透明這件事情為什麼這麼重要因為我們這幾個學門正好就叫做跨領域的研究\n\n10\n00:03:23,998 --> 00:03:45,035\n2017年聯合國教科文組織也就提出了我們跨領域的研究這是對我們未來全球性挑戰的一個解方2020年的OECD的報告同樣告訴我們說跨領域研究的重要性而當中因為它是跨領域所以你一定會有不同的單位一定會有更多的參與者\n\n11\n00:03:46,997 --> 00:04:07,226\n所以決策的透明以及擴大參與兩點至關重要請你們未來不管要有怎麼樣的更動一定要來遵守這樣子的程序同意可不可以是好接下來要跟主委討論大家都很關心從上個會期我們都在關切就是AI\n\n12\n00:04:08,406 --> 00:04:23,360\n因為AI是向全世界最關注的科技議題蕭美琴副總統在AI年會上說AI這個是革命而革命當中是成是敗取決於我們能否跟上時代\n\n13\n00:04:24,641 --> 00:04:43,900\n我們現在看到幾個評估的資料說台灣的AI產業目前在亞洲是落後新加坡落後南韓落後日本甚至落後中國目前有一項因為好幾份報告有一份我們名次是第19名朱委員你怎麼看待這個名次\n\n14\n00:04:45,865 --> 00:05:00,956\n我們要虛心檢討因為過去台灣其實是重點我們一直在發展我們的硬體產業來供給全世界應用AI的這個算力那我們其實是過去比較忽略掉我們國內自己要發展自己的應用\n\n15\n00:05:02,397 --> 00:05:29,339\n所以我們現在已經積極在編列未來幾年的預算增加我們的算力增加算力以後利用這些算力來除了做科研的研究之外科技研究之外那也準備把這個研究成果要擴散到應用面能夠開發自己的主權AI那應用系統雲端的這個服務讓我們的人民可以受惠\n\n16\n00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,201\n我相信未來幾年我們排名會逐步的上升會進到全世界的前段班\n\n17\n00:05:49,305 --> 00:05:52,509\n我相信因為半導體已經是我們的優勢了所以有能夠應用到AI產業我們其實是有相當的競爭力跟未來的潛力發展的我在看我們幾個數字一個是我們的準備度我們的排名當然目前是在第19名\n\n18\n00:06:07,865 --> 00:06:30,720\n但是跟中國來比較,111年度我們甚至曾經一度領先中國所以我想它是動態性的發展所以你剛剛講的我們現在的準備跟規劃其實就要朝向中長期的就要開始來投入了嘛對不對那以算力來說我比較關切的是我們超級電腦的這個算力它也有一個排名嘛\n\n19\n00:06:32,481 --> 00:07:00,458\n回答在去年來建制的這個超級電腦目前的排名是全球全球是第38名但是我們國科會自己的台灣三二號台灣三三號都目前都是在百名以外我看你們這個台灣三二號是2018年建制的所以時間也算是久因為這個就是在跟時間賽跑對已經五年了所以我們要加進來我們打算怎麼樣來加強\n\n20\n00:07:01,539 --> 00:07:23,446\n我們現在已經在建新的這個資料中心了我相信明年開始運作以後我們排名就會往前了那我們未來幾年預算會逐年再編列再增加明年是重點我們明年編了40幾億是希望把這個資料中心超級電腦的這個設備一下可以提升提升很多也開始啟動我們的應用\n\n21\n00:07:24,946 --> 00:07:25,587\n我相信大家可以拭目以待\n\n22\n00:07:47,345 --> 00:08:15,131\n所以明年的預算如果通過的話對我們的算力的提升會是一個關鍵的支持對不對?你們要去說明清楚啊另外主委你多次提到這個主權AI能不能說明什麼叫主權AI主權AI第一點就是說我們的訓練資料要用本土的訓練資料因為應用在本土所以國內的應用我們自己的資料我們要建我們自己的資料中心我們目前的有沒有自己的?\n\n23\n00:08:15,911 --> 00:08:35,579\n我們有部分的公司自己有在做但是我們的政府還有這個一般的民眾的使用目前還是主要仰賴國外的這些系統所以大概我們很多的資料都散佈到全世界去了那將來比較關鍵性的資料我們希望能夠留在國內\n\n24\n00:08:36,739 --> 00:08:59,481\n所以要建自己的資料中心是很重要的再來就是發展自主的應用系統自主應用系統是可以配合我們自己的資料訓練出比較有能源使用效率的比較好的運算的模型能夠讓台灣的民眾受惠於我們自己的主權AI的建置能夠提供更多的增進民眾福祉的這些應用\n\n25\n00:08:59,741 --> 00:09:18,120\n所以我們的台德也算是其中之一嗎?台德是一個先期的...是其中之一的...但是還包括很多其他的計畫對不對?我們現在學界還有其他的這個模型也在考慮上講到主旋AI我也關切因為我看到傳出一個消息說去年底的時候OpenAI開始跟中東的投資者有在談\n\n26\n00:09:19,321 --> 00:09:33,096\n就是說討論可能未來OpenAI有可能會把資料中心建置在中東為什麼大家會這麼擔心因為它有地緣政治的關聯嘛包括中東、俄羅斯、中國這些極權國家我們擔心說會產生資安的漏洞跟後門\n\n27\n00:09:39,242 --> 00:09:49,252\n所以我們台灣要建置自己的主權AI世界各國也都在努力要建置自己的主權AI這一點相關的重要所以我一再的說\n\n28\n00:09:50,984 --> 00:09:51,004\n是﹖\n\n29\n00:10:18,323 --> 00:10:24,087\n新增預算根據預算法規．立法院沒有通過可不可以動之?\n\n30\n00:10:24,087 --> 00:10:43,680\n不可以欸!所以你們要去把它說明清楚各位大家人生在世啊有很多非常珍貴的事情跟時間要做既然花時間在這裡質詢備詢了不要打假球不要演戲既然大家都認為AI要發展我們要進步\n\n31\n00:10:44,961 --> 00:10:48,162\n我們這些除了剛講的這個新增預算你還包括什麼我幫你看了你們院的新增預算總共有14.6億有氣候變遷研究的有空間有序規劃的有疾病導向的生醫資料研究還有我們的綠能設施我們的實驗高級中學學校建設計畫\n\n32\n00:11:04,946 --> 00:11:05,427\n吳沛憶吳沛憶吳沛憶\n\n33\n00:11:25,316 --> 00:11:45,254\n所以剛剛大家在這邊討論這麼多AI要發展主權AI每一個國家都在關心但是我們如果要馬而跑又不給馬而吃草不給預算的話請問這個計算要怎麼進行你的計畫要怎麼進行你沒有辦法動得主委所以你也必須要負責任的向市民報告講了這麼多該做的事情\n\n34\n00:11:48,957 --> 00:12:01,245\n但是預算沒有通過這些項目你剛剛說我們的AI你說幾年之內你甚至是不是說我們要超過韓國幾年之內要超越韓國我們的目標三年之內要超越韓國我們台灣喊出來了嘛但是你的預算在哪裡你沒有錢你的計畫怎麼做\n\n35\n00:12:11,041 --> 00:12:31,239\n主委這非常重要所以我要拜託你在立法院被尋的時候你們只要負責任的把這些計畫的重要性對我們國家來說我們的國民為什麼需要它請清楚的告訴國民政治的事情我們立委會來負責但是你們要清楚的向國民說明因為這是你們的專業好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1090\t主委好所以剛剛前面的委員問你說沒有能源就沒有AI其實沒有預算也更不可能有AI所以我替你覺得很辛苦這個科學理性還要有務實現在野黨的立委\n23164\t41983\t又要擋預算剛剛又要你們做一堆工作沒有預算要怎麼做所以你們在備詢的時候你們要理性務實的把你們遇到的困難要來向委員以及市民報告因為我們站在這個你站在備詢台我站在質詢台你不只對立委負責\n42543\t64604\t你是對全國的人民負責,都要清楚的去把它說明那接下來在進入今天專題報告這個討論之前因為我看到一個新聞相當擔憂想跟主委先請教有媒體報導說中國的半導體有可能技術已經追趕到不只落後台灣三年\n65913\t68795\t中國在近年之內有可能半導體的技術追趕上台灣嗎?我認為十年以上了,落差\n94306\t99145\t目前的落差至少10年以上中國半導體晶片現在是幾奈米?\n101148\t101188\t吳沛憶 吳沛憶\n132252\t157290\t在這個學界引起很大的討論那因為前面委員剛也討論很多我直接進結論請教一下我們現在有關於永續發展科學防災科技、空間資訊科技等三個學門有沒有要進行整併或者是調整沒有沒有嘛好那這三個學門我們要繼續的來支持在預算方面有沒有進行調整\n158089\t179674\t有,我們其實早就編好了明年的預算,今年的預算3個學門4.8億,我們明年已經編到5.2億了所以我們是持續在支持所以我們預算會持續來增加對,已經編列了,希望不要被刪減好,所以學門不會調整,預算要增加,這個也是我希望看到的方向但是啊,但是啊\n181035\t202436\t這個不能只看結果,過程當中我相信剛剛前面很多委員都提醒了在整個學界社群當中的參與討論各方的諮詢公開的透明這件事情為什麼這麼重要因為我們這幾個學門正好就叫做跨領域的研究\n203998\t225035\t2017年聯合國教科文組織也就提出了我們跨領域的研究這是對我們未來全球性挑戰的一個解方2020年的OECD的報告同樣告訴我們說跨領域研究的重要性而當中因為它是跨領域所以你一定會有不同的單位一定會有更多的參與者\n226997\t247226\t所以決策的透明以及擴大參與兩點至關重要請你們未來不管要有怎麼樣的更動一定要來遵守這樣子的程序同意可不可以是好接下來要跟主委討論大家都很關心從上個會期我們都在關切就是AI\n248406\t263360\t因為AI是向全世界最關注的科技議題 蕭美琴副總統在AI年會上說AI這個是革命 而革命當中是成是敗 取決於我們能否跟上時代\n264641\t283900\t我們現在看到幾個評估的資料說台灣的AI產業目前在亞洲是落後新加坡落後南韓落後日本甚至落後中國目前有一項因為好幾份報告有一份我們名次是第19名朱委員你怎麼看待這個名次\n285865\t300956\t我們要虛心檢討因為過去台灣其實是重點我們一直在發展我們的硬體產業來供給全世界應用AI的這個算力那我們其實是過去比較忽略掉我們國內自己要發展自己的應用\n302397\t329339\t所以我們現在已經積極在編列未來幾年的預算增加我們的算力增加算力以後利用這些算力來除了做科研的研究之外科技研究之外那也準備把這個研究成果要擴散到應用面能夠開發自己的主權AI那應用系統雲端的這個服務讓我們的人民可以受惠\n330240\t332201\t我相信未來幾年我們排名會逐步的上升會進到全世界的前段班\n349305\t352509\t我相信因為半導體已經是我們的優勢了所以有能夠應用到AI產業我們其實是有相當的競爭力跟未來的潛力發展的我在看我們幾個數字一個是我們的準備度我們的排名當然目前是在第19名\n367865\t390720\t但是跟中國來比較,111年度我們甚至曾經一度領先中國所以我想它是動態性的發展所以你剛剛講的我們現在的準備跟規劃其實就要朝向中長期的就要開始來投入了嘛對不對那以算力來說我比較關切的是我們超級電腦的這個算力它也有一個排名嘛\n392481\t420458\t回答在去年來建制的這個超級電腦目前的排名是全球全球是第38名但是我們國科會自己的台灣三二號台灣三三號都目前都是在百名以外我看你們這個台灣三二號是2018年建制的所以時間也算是久因為這個就是在跟時間賽跑對已經五年了所以我們要加進來我們打算怎麼樣來加強\n421539\t443446\t我們現在已經在建新的這個資料中心了我相信明年開始運作以後我們排名就會往前了那我們未來幾年預算會逐年再編列再增加明年是重點我們明年編了40幾億是希望把這個資料中心超級電腦的這個設備一下可以提升提升很多也開始啟動我們的應用\n444946\t445587\t我相信大家可以拭目以待\n467345\t495131\t所以明年的預算如果通過的話對我們的算力的提升會是一個關鍵的支持對不對?你們要去說明清楚啊另外主委你多次提到這個主權AI能不能說明什麼叫主權AI主權AI第一點就是說我們的訓練資料要用本土的訓練資料因為應用在本土所以國內的應用我們自己的資料我們要建我們自己的資料中心我們目前的有沒有自己的?\n495911\t515579\t我們有部分的公司自己有在做但是我們的政府還有這個一般的民眾的使用目前還是主要仰賴國外的這些系統所以大概我們很多的資料都散佈到全世界去了那將來比較關鍵性的資料我們希望能夠留在國內\n516739\t539481\t所以要建自己的資料中心是很重要的再來就是發展自主的應用系統自主應用系統是可以配合我們自己的資料訓練出比較有能源使用效率的比較好的運算的模型能夠讓台灣的民眾受惠於我們自己的主權AI的建置能夠提供更多的增進民眾福祉的這些應用\n539741\t558120\t所以我們的台德也算是其中之一嗎?台德是一個先期的...是其中之一的...但是還包括很多其他的計畫對不對?我們現在學界還有其他的這個模型也在考慮上講到主旋AI我也關切因為我看到傳出一個消息說去年底的時候OpenAI開始跟中東的投資者有在談\n559321\t573096\t就是說討論可能未來OpenAI有可能會把資料中心建置在中東為什麼大家會這麼擔心因為它有地緣政治的關聯嘛包括中東、俄羅斯、中國這些極權國家我們擔心說會產生資安的漏洞跟後門\n579242\t589252\t所以我們台灣要建置自己的主權AI世界各國也都在努力要建置自己的主權AI這一點相關的重要所以我一再的說\n590984\t591004\t是﹖\n618323\t624087\t新增預算根據預算法規．立法院沒有通過可不可以動之?\n624087\t643680\t不可以欸!所以你們要去把它說明清楚 各位大家人生在世啊 有很多非常珍貴的事情跟時間要做既然花時間在這裡質詢備詢了 不要打假球 不要演戲既然大家都認為AI要發展 我們要進步\n644961\t648162\t我們這些除了剛講的這個新增預算你還包括什麼我幫你看了你們院的新增預算總共有14.6億有氣候變遷研究的有空間有序規劃的有疾病導向的生醫資料研究還有我們的綠能設施我們的實驗高級中學學校建設計畫\n664946\t665427\t吳沛憶吳沛憶吳沛憶\n685316\t705254\t所以剛剛大家在這邊討論這麼多AI要發展主權AI每一個國家都在關心但是我們如果要馬而跑又不給馬而吃草不給預算的話請問這個計算要怎麼進行你的計畫要怎麼進行你沒有辦法動得主委所以你也必須要負責任的向市民報告講了這麼多該做的事情\n708957\t721245\t但是預算沒有通過這些項目你剛剛說我們的AI你說幾年之內你甚至是不是說我們要超過韓國幾年之內要超越韓國我們的目標三年之內要超越韓國我們台灣喊出來了嘛但是你的預算在哪裡你沒有錢你的計畫怎麼做\n731041\t751239\t主委這非常重要所以我要拜託你在立法院被尋的時候你們只要負責任的把這些計畫的重要性對我們國家來說我們的國民為什麼需要它請清楚的告訴國民政治的事情我們立委會來負責但是你們要清楚的向國民說明因為這是你們的專業好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝\n","txt":"主委好所以剛剛前面的委員問你說沒有能源就沒有AI其實沒有預算也更不可能有AI所以我替你覺得很辛苦這個科學理性還要有務實現在野黨的立委\n又要擋預算剛剛又要你們做一堆工作沒有預算要怎麼做所以你們在備詢的時候你們要理性務實的把你們遇到的困難要來向委員以及市民報告因為我們站在這個你站在備詢台我站在質詢台你不只對立委負責\n你是對全國的人民負責,都要清楚的去把它說明那接下來在進入今天專題報告這個討論之前因為我看到一個新聞相當擔憂想跟主委先請教有媒體報導說中國的半導體有可能技術已經追趕到不只落後台灣三年\n中國在近年之內有可能半導體的技術追趕上台灣嗎?我認為十年以上了,落差\n目前的落差至少10年以上中國半導體晶片現在是幾奈米?\n吳沛憶 吳沛憶\n在這個學界引起很大的討論那因為前面委員剛也討論很多我直接進結論請教一下我們現在有關於永續發展科學防災科技、空間資訊科技等三個學門有沒有要進行整併或者是調整沒有沒有嘛好那這三個學門我們要繼續的來支持在預算方面有沒有進行調整\n有,我們其實早就編好了明年的預算,今年的預算3個學門4.8億,我們明年已經編到5.2億了所以我們是持續在支持所以我們預算會持續來增加對,已經編列了,希望不要被刪減好,所以學門不會調整,預算要增加,這個也是我希望看到的方向但是啊,但是啊\n這個不能只看結果,過程當中我相信剛剛前面很多委員都提醒了在整個學界社群當中的參與討論各方的諮詢公開的透明這件事情為什麼這麼重要因為我們這幾個學門正好就叫做跨領域的研究\n2017年聯合國教科文組織也就提出了我們跨領域的研究這是對我們未來全球性挑戰的一個解方2020年的OECD的報告同樣告訴我們說跨領域研究的重要性而當中因為它是跨領域所以你一定會有不同的單位一定會有更多的參與者\n所以決策的透明以及擴大參與兩點至關重要請你們未來不管要有怎麼樣的更動一定要來遵守這樣子的程序同意可不可以是好接下來要跟主委討論大家都很關心從上個會期我們都在關切就是AI\n因為AI是向全世界最關注的科技議題 蕭美琴副總統在AI年會上說AI這個是革命 而革命當中是成是敗 取決於我們能否跟上時代\n我們現在看到幾個評估的資料說台灣的AI產業目前在亞洲是落後新加坡落後南韓落後日本甚至落後中國目前有一項因為好幾份報告有一份我們名次是第19名朱委員你怎麼看待這個名次\n我們要虛心檢討因為過去台灣其實是重點我們一直在發展我們的硬體產業來供給全世界應用AI的這個算力那我們其實是過去比較忽略掉我們國內自己要發展自己的應用\n所以我們現在已經積極在編列未來幾年的預算增加我們的算力增加算力以後利用這些算力來除了做科研的研究之外科技研究之外那也準備把這個研究成果要擴散到應用面能夠開發自己的主權AI那應用系統雲端的這個服務讓我們的人民可以受惠\n我相信未來幾年我們排名會逐步的上升會進到全世界的前段班\n我相信因為半導體已經是我們的優勢了所以有能夠應用到AI產業我們其實是有相當的競爭力跟未來的潛力發展的我在看我們幾個數字一個是我們的準備度我們的排名當然目前是在第19名\n但是跟中國來比較,111年度我們甚至曾經一度領先中國所以我想它是動態性的發展所以你剛剛講的我們現在的準備跟規劃其實就要朝向中長期的就要開始來投入了嘛對不對那以算力來說我比較關切的是我們超級電腦的這個算力它也有一個排名嘛\n回答在去年來建制的這個超級電腦目前的排名是全球全球是第38名但是我們國科會自己的台灣三二號台灣三三號都目前都是在百名以外我看你們這個台灣三二號是2018年建制的所以時間也算是久因為這個就是在跟時間賽跑對已經五年了所以我們要加進來我們打算怎麼樣來加強\n我們現在已經在建新的這個資料中心了我相信明年開始運作以後我們排名就會往前了那我們未來幾年預算會逐年再編列再增加明年是重點我們明年編了40幾億是希望把這個資料中心超級電腦的這個設備一下可以提升提升很多也開始啟動我們的應用\n我相信大家可以拭目以待\n所以明年的預算如果通過的話對我們的算力的提升會是一個關鍵的支持對不對?你們要去說明清楚啊另外主委你多次提到這個主權AI能不能說明什麼叫主權AI主權AI第一點就是說我們的訓練資料要用本土的訓練資料因為應用在本土所以國內的應用我們自己的資料我們要建我們自己的資料中心我們目前的有沒有自己的?\n我們有部分的公司自己有在做但是我們的政府還有這個一般的民眾的使用目前還是主要仰賴國外的這些系統所以大概我們很多的資料都散佈到全世界去了那將來比較關鍵性的資料我們希望能夠留在國內\n所以要建自己的資料中心是很重要的再來就是發展自主的應用系統自主應用系統是可以配合我們自己的資料訓練出比較有能源使用效率的比較好的運算的模型能夠讓台灣的民眾受惠於我們自己的主權AI的建置能夠提供更多的增進民眾福祉的這些應用\n所以我們的台德也算是其中之一嗎?台德是一個先期的...是其中之一的...但是還包括很多其他的計畫對不對?我們現在學界還有其他的這個模型也在考慮上講到主旋AI我也關切因為我看到傳出一個消息說去年底的時候OpenAI開始跟中東的投資者有在談\n就是說討論可能未來OpenAI有可能會把資料中心建置在中東為什麼大家會這麼擔心因為它有地緣政治的關聯嘛包括中東、俄羅斯、中國這些極權國家我們擔心說會產生資安的漏洞跟後門\n所以我們台灣要建置自己的主權AI世界各國也都在努力要建置自己的主權AI這一點相關的重要所以我一再的說\n是﹖\n新增預算根據預算法規．立法院沒有通過可不可以動之?\n不可以欸!所以你們要去把它說明清楚 各位大家人生在世啊 有很多非常珍貴的事情跟時間要做既然花時間在這裡質詢備詢了 不要打假球 不要演戲既然大家都認為AI要發展 我們要進步\n我們這些除了剛講的這個新增預算你還包括什麼我幫你看了你們院的新增預算總共有14.6億有氣候變遷研究的有空間有序規劃的有疾病導向的生醫資料研究還有我們的綠能設施我們的實驗高級中學學校建設計畫\n吳沛憶吳沛憶吳沛憶\n所以剛剛大家在這邊討論這麼多AI要發展主權AI每一個國家都在關心但是我們如果要馬而跑又不給馬而吃草不給預算的話請問這個計算要怎麼進行你的計畫要怎麼進行你沒有辦法動得主委所以你也必須要負責任的向市民報告講了這麼多該做的事情\n但是預算沒有通過這些項目你剛剛說我們的AI你說幾年之內你甚至是不是說我們要超過韓國幾年之內要超越韓國我們的目標三年之內要超越韓國我們台灣喊出來了嘛但是你的預算在哪裡你沒有錢你的計畫怎麼做\n主委這非常重要所以我要拜託你在立法院被尋的時候你們只要負責任的把這些計畫的重要性對我們國家來說我們的國民為什麼需要它請清楚的告訴國民政治的事情我們立委會來負責但是你們要清楚的向國民說明因為這是你們的專業好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.090\n主委好所以剛剛前面的委員問你說沒有能源就沒有AI其實沒有預算也更不可能有AI所以我替你覺得很辛苦這個科學理性還要有務實現在野黨的立委\n\n00:23.164 --> 00:41.983\n又要擋預算剛剛又要你們做一堆工作沒有預算要怎麼做所以你們在備詢的時候你們要理性務實的把你們遇到的困難要來向委員以及市民報告因為我們站在這個你站在備詢台我站在質詢台你不只對立委負責\n\n00:42.543 --> 01:04.604\n你是對全國的人民負責,都要清楚的去把它說明那接下來在進入今天專題報告這個討論之前因為我看到一個新聞相當擔憂想跟主委先請教有媒體報導說中國的半導體有可能技術已經追趕到不只落後台灣三年\n\n01:05.913 --> 01:08.795\n中國在近年之內有可能半導體的技術追趕上台灣嗎?我認為十年以上了,落差\n\n01:34.306 --> 01:39.145\n目前的落差至少10年以上中國半導體晶片現在是幾奈米?\n\n01:41.148 --> 01:41.188\n吳沛憶吳沛憶\n\n02:12.252 --> 02:37.290\n在這個學界引起很大的討論那因為前面委員剛也討論很多我直接進結論請教一下我們現在有關於永續發展科學防災科技、空間資訊科技等三個學門有沒有要進行整併或者是調整沒有沒有嘛好那這三個學門我們要繼續的來支持在預算方面有沒有進行調整\n\n02:38.089 --> 02:59.674\n有,我們其實早就編好了明年的預算,今年的預算3個學門4.8億,我們明年已經編到5.2億了所以我們是持續在支持所以我們預算會持續來增加對,已經編列了,希望不要被刪減好,所以學門不會調整,預算要增加,這個也是我希望看到的方向但是啊,但是啊\n\n03:01.035 --> 03:22.436\n這個不能只看結果,過程當中我相信剛剛前面很多委員都提醒了在整個學界社群當中的參與討論各方的諮詢公開的透明這件事情為什麼這麼重要因為我們這幾個學門正好就叫做跨領域的研究\n\n03:23.998 --> 03:45.035\n2017年聯合國教科文組織也就提出了我們跨領域的研究這是對我們未來全球性挑戰的一個解方2020年的OECD的報告同樣告訴我們說跨領域研究的重要性而當中因為它是跨領域所以你一定會有不同的單位一定會有更多的參與者\n\n03:46.997 --> 04:07.226\n所以決策的透明以及擴大參與兩點至關重要請你們未來不管要有怎麼樣的更動一定要來遵守這樣子的程序同意可不可以是好接下來要跟主委討論大家都很關心從上個會期我們都在關切就是AI\n\n04:08.406 --> 04:23.360\n因為AI是向全世界最關注的科技議題蕭美琴副總統在AI年會上說AI這個是革命而革命當中是成是敗取決於我們能否跟上時代\n\n04:24.641 --> 04:43.900\n我們現在看到幾個評估的資料說台灣的AI產業目前在亞洲是落後新加坡落後南韓落後日本甚至落後中國目前有一項因為好幾份報告有一份我們名次是第19名朱委員你怎麼看待這個名次\n\n04:45.865 --> 05:00.956\n我們要虛心檢討因為過去台灣其實是重點我們一直在發展我們的硬體產業來供給全世界應用AI的這個算力那我們其實是過去比較忽略掉我們國內自己要發展自己的應用\n\n05:02.397 --> 05:29.339\n所以我們現在已經積極在編列未來幾年的預算增加我們的算力增加算力以後利用這些算力來除了做科研的研究之外科技研究之外那也準備把這個研究成果要擴散到應用面能夠開發自己的主權AI那應用系統雲端的這個服務讓我們的人民可以受惠\n\n05:30.240 --> 05:32.201\n我相信未來幾年我們排名會逐步的上升會進到全世界的前段班\n\n05:49.305 --> 05:52.509\n我相信因為半導體已經是我們的優勢了所以有能夠應用到AI產業我們其實是有相當的競爭力跟未來的潛力發展的我在看我們幾個數字一個是我們的準備度我們的排名當然目前是在第19名\n\n06:07.865 --> 06:30.720\n但是跟中國來比較,111年度我們甚至曾經一度領先中國所以我想它是動態性的發展所以你剛剛講的我們現在的準備跟規劃其實就要朝向中長期的就要開始來投入了嘛對不對那以算力來說我比較關切的是我們超級電腦的這個算力它也有一個排名嘛\n\n06:32.481 --> 07:00.458\n回答在去年來建制的這個超級電腦目前的排名是全球全球是第38名但是我們國科會自己的台灣三二號台灣三三號都目前都是在百名以外我看你們這個台灣三二號是2018年建制的所以時間也算是久因為這個就是在跟時間賽跑對已經五年了所以我們要加進來我們打算怎麼樣來加強\n\n07:01.539 --> 07:23.446\n我們現在已經在建新的這個資料中心了我相信明年開始運作以後我們排名就會往前了那我們未來幾年預算會逐年再編列再增加明年是重點我們明年編了40幾億是希望把這個資料中心超級電腦的這個設備一下可以提升提升很多也開始啟動我們的應用\n\n07:24.946 --> 07:25.587\n我相信大家可以拭目以待\n\n07:47.345 --> 08:15.131\n所以明年的預算如果通過的話對我們的算力的提升會是一個關鍵的支持對不對?你們要去說明清楚啊另外主委你多次提到這個主權AI能不能說明什麼叫主權AI主權AI第一點就是說我們的訓練資料要用本土的訓練資料因為應用在本土所以國內的應用我們自己的資料我們要建我們自己的資料中心我們目前的有沒有自己的?\n\n08:15.911 --> 08:35.579\n我們有部分的公司自己有在做但是我們的政府還有這個一般的民眾的使用目前還是主要仰賴國外的這些系統所以大概我們很多的資料都散佈到全世界去了那將來比較關鍵性的資料我們希望能夠留在國內\n\n08:36.739 --> 08:59.481\n所以要建自己的資料中心是很重要的再來就是發展自主的應用系統自主應用系統是可以配合我們自己的資料訓練出比較有能源使用效率的比較好的運算的模型能夠讓台灣的民眾受惠於我們自己的主權AI的建置能夠提供更多的增進民眾福祉的這些應用\n\n08:59.741 --> 09:18.120\n所以我們的台德也算是其中之一嗎?台德是一個先期的...是其中之一的...但是還包括很多其他的計畫對不對?我們現在學界還有其他的這個模型也在考慮上講到主旋AI我也關切因為我看到傳出一個消息說去年底的時候OpenAI開始跟中東的投資者有在談\n\n09:19.321 --> 09:33.096\n就是說討論可能未來OpenAI有可能會把資料中心建置在中東為什麼大家會這麼擔心因為它有地緣政治的關聯嘛包括中東、俄羅斯、中國這些極權國家我們擔心說會產生資安的漏洞跟後門\n\n09:39.242 --> 09:49.252\n所以我們台灣要建置自己的主權AI世界各國也都在努力要建置自己的主權AI這一點相關的重要所以我一再的說\n\n09:50.984 --> 09:51.004\n是﹖\n\n10:18.323 --> 10:24.087\n新增預算根據預算法規．立法院沒有通過可不可以動之?\n\n10:24.087 --> 10:43.680\n不可以欸!所以你們要去把它說明清楚各位大家人生在世啊有很多非常珍貴的事情跟時間要做既然花時間在這裡質詢備詢了不要打假球不要演戲既然大家都認為AI要發展我們要進步\n\n10:44.961 --> 10:48.162\n我們這些除了剛講的這個新增預算你還包括什麼我幫你看了你們院的新增預算總共有14.6億有氣候變遷研究的有空間有序規劃的有疾病導向的生醫資料研究還有我們的綠能設施我們的實驗高級中學學校建設計畫\n\n11:04.946 --> 11:05.427\n吳沛憶吳沛憶吳沛憶\n\n11:25.316 --> 11:45.254\n所以剛剛大家在這邊討論這麼多AI要發展主權AI每一個國家都在關心但是我們如果要馬而跑又不給馬而吃草不給預算的話請問這個計算要怎麼進行你的計畫要怎麼進行你沒有辦法動得主委所以你也必須要負責任的向市民報告講了這麼多該做的事情\n\n11:48.957 --> 12:01.245\n但是預算沒有通過這些項目你剛剛說我們的AI你說幾年之內你甚至是不是說我們要超過韓國幾年之內要超越韓國我們的目標三年之內要超越韓國我們台灣喊出來了嘛但是你的預算在哪裡你沒有錢你的計畫怎麼做\n\n12:11.041 --> 12:31.239\n主委這非常重要所以我要拜託你在立法院被尋的時候你們只要負責任的把這些計畫的重要性對我們國家來說我們的國民為什麼需要它請清楚的告訴國民政治的事情我們立委會來負責但是你們要清楚的向國民說明因為這是你們的專業好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.09,"text":"主委好所以剛剛前面的委員問你說沒有能源就沒有AI其實沒有預算也更不可能有AI所以我替你覺得很辛苦這個科學理性還要有務實現在野黨的立委"},{"start":23.164,"end":41.983,"text":"又要擋預算剛剛又要你們做一堆工作沒有預算要怎麼做所以你們在備詢的時候你們要理性務實的把你們遇到的困難要來向委員以及市民報告因為我們站在這個你站在備詢台我站在質詢台你不只對立委負責"},{"start":42.543,"end":64.604,"text":"你是對全國的人民負責,都要清楚的去把它說明那接下來在進入今天專題報告這個討論之前因為我看到一個新聞相當擔憂想跟主委先請教有媒體報導說中國的半導體有可能技術已經追趕到不只落後台灣三年"},{"start":65.913,"end":68.795,"text":"中國在近年之內有可能半導體的技術追趕上台灣嗎?我認為十年以上了,落差"},{"start":94.306,"end":99.145,"text":"目前的落差至少10年以上中國半導體晶片現在是幾奈米?"},{"start":101.148,"end":101.188,"text":"吳沛憶 吳沛憶"},{"start":132.252,"end":157.29,"text":"在這個學界引起很大的討論那因為前面委員剛也討論很多我直接進結論請教一下我們現在有關於永續發展科學防災科技、空間資訊科技等三個學門有沒有要進行整併或者是調整沒有沒有嘛好那這三個學門我們要繼續的來支持在預算方面有沒有進行調整"},{"start":158.089,"end":179.674,"text":"有,我們其實早就編好了明年的預算,今年的預算3個學門4.8億,我們明年已經編到5.2億了所以我們是持續在支持所以我們預算會持續來增加對,已經編列了,希望不要被刪減好,所以學門不會調整,預算要增加,這個也是我希望看到的方向但是啊,但是啊"},{"start":181.035,"end":202.436,"text":"這個不能只看結果,過程當中我相信剛剛前面很多委員都提醒了在整個學界社群當中的參與討論各方的諮詢公開的透明這件事情為什麼這麼重要因為我們這幾個學門正好就叫做跨領域的研究"},{"start":203.998,"end":225.035,"text":"2017年聯合國教科文組織也就提出了我們跨領域的研究這是對我們未來全球性挑戰的一個解方2020年的OECD的報告同樣告訴我們說跨領域研究的重要性而當中因為它是跨領域所以你一定會有不同的單位一定會有更多的參與者"},{"start":226.997,"end":247.226,"text":"所以決策的透明以及擴大參與兩點至關重要請你們未來不管要有怎麼樣的更動一定要來遵守這樣子的程序同意可不可以是好接下來要跟主委討論大家都很關心從上個會期我們都在關切就是AI"},{"start":248.406,"end":263.36,"text":"因為AI是向全世界最關注的科技議題 蕭美琴副總統在AI年會上說AI這個是革命 而革命當中是成是敗 取決於我們能否跟上時代"},{"start":264.641,"end":283.9,"text":"我們現在看到幾個評估的資料說台灣的AI產業目前在亞洲是落後新加坡落後南韓落後日本甚至落後中國目前有一項因為好幾份報告有一份我們名次是第19名朱委員你怎麼看待這個名次"},{"start":285.865,"end":300.956,"text":"我們要虛心檢討因為過去台灣其實是重點我們一直在發展我們的硬體產業來供給全世界應用AI的這個算力那我們其實是過去比較忽略掉我們國內自己要發展自己的應用"},{"start":302.397,"end":329.339,"text":"所以我們現在已經積極在編列未來幾年的預算增加我們的算力增加算力以後利用這些算力來除了做科研的研究之外科技研究之外那也準備把這個研究成果要擴散到應用面能夠開發自己的主權AI那應用系統雲端的這個服務讓我們的人民可以受惠"},{"start":330.24,"end":332.201,"text":"我相信未來幾年我們排名會逐步的上升會進到全世界的前段班"},{"start":349.305,"end":352.509,"text":"我相信因為半導體已經是我們的優勢了所以有能夠應用到AI產業我們其實是有相當的競爭力跟未來的潛力發展的我在看我們幾個數字一個是我們的準備度我們的排名當然目前是在第19名"},{"start":367.865,"end":390.72,"text":"但是跟中國來比較,111年度我們甚至曾經一度領先中國所以我想它是動態性的發展所以你剛剛講的我們現在的準備跟規劃其實就要朝向中長期的就要開始來投入了嘛對不對那以算力來說我比較關切的是我們超級電腦的這個算力它也有一個排名嘛"},{"start":392.481,"end":420.458,"text":"回答在去年來建制的這個超級電腦目前的排名是全球全球是第38名但是我們國科會自己的台灣三二號台灣三三號都目前都是在百名以外我看你們這個台灣三二號是2018年建制的所以時間也算是久因為這個就是在跟時間賽跑對已經五年了所以我們要加進來我們打算怎麼樣來加強"},{"start":421.539,"end":443.446,"text":"我們現在已經在建新的這個資料中心了我相信明年開始運作以後我們排名就會往前了那我們未來幾年預算會逐年再編列再增加明年是重點我們明年編了40幾億是希望把這個資料中心超級電腦的這個設備一下可以提升提升很多也開始啟動我們的應用"},{"start":444.946,"end":445.587,"text":"我相信大家可以拭目以待"},{"start":467.345,"end":495.131,"text":"所以明年的預算如果通過的話對我們的算力的提升會是一個關鍵的支持對不對?你們要去說明清楚啊另外主委你多次提到這個主權AI能不能說明什麼叫主權AI主權AI第一點就是說我們的訓練資料要用本土的訓練資料因為應用在本土所以國內的應用我們自己的資料我們要建我們自己的資料中心我們目前的有沒有自己的?"},{"start":495.911,"end":515.579,"text":"我們有部分的公司自己有在做但是我們的政府還有這個一般的民眾的使用目前還是主要仰賴國外的這些系統所以大概我們很多的資料都散佈到全世界去了那將來比較關鍵性的資料我們希望能夠留在國內"},{"start":516.739,"end":539.481,"text":"所以要建自己的資料中心是很重要的再來就是發展自主的應用系統自主應用系統是可以配合我們自己的資料訓練出比較有能源使用效率的比較好的運算的模型能夠讓台灣的民眾受惠於我們自己的主權AI的建置能夠提供更多的增進民眾福祉的這些應用"},{"start":539.741,"end":558.12,"text":"所以我們的台德也算是其中之一嗎?台德是一個先期的...是其中之一的...但是還包括很多其他的計畫對不對?我們現在學界還有其他的這個模型也在考慮上講到主旋AI我也關切因為我看到傳出一個消息說去年底的時候OpenAI開始跟中東的投資者有在談"},{"start":559.321,"end":573.096,"text":"就是說討論可能未來OpenAI有可能會把資料中心建置在中東為什麼大家會這麼擔心因為它有地緣政治的關聯嘛包括中東、俄羅斯、中國這些極權國家我們擔心說會產生資安的漏洞跟後門"},{"start":579.242,"end":589.252,"text":"所以我們台灣要建置自己的主權AI世界各國也都在努力要建置自己的主權AI這一點相關的重要所以我一再的說"},{"start":590.984,"end":591.004,"text":"是﹖"},{"start":618.323,"end":624.087,"text":"新增預算根據預算法規．立法院沒有通過可不可以動之?"},{"start":624.087,"end":643.68,"text":"不可以欸!所以你們要去把它說明清楚 各位大家人生在世啊 有很多非常珍貴的事情跟時間要做既然花時間在這裡質詢備詢了 不要打假球 不要演戲既然大家都認為AI要發展 我們要進步"},{"start":644.961,"end":648.162,"text":"我們這些除了剛講的這個新增預算你還包括什麼我幫你看了你們院的新增預算總共有14.6億有氣候變遷研究的有空間有序規劃的有疾病導向的生醫資料研究還有我們的綠能設施我們的實驗高級中學學校建設計畫"},{"start":664.946,"end":665.427,"text":"吳沛憶吳沛憶吳沛憶"},{"start":685.316,"end":705.254,"text":"所以剛剛大家在這邊討論這麼多AI要發展主權AI每一個國家都在關心但是我們如果要馬而跑又不給馬而吃草不給預算的話請問這個計算要怎麼進行你的計畫要怎麼進行你沒有辦法動得主委所以你也必須要負責任的向市民報告講了這麼多該做的事情"},{"start":708.957,"end":721.245,"text":"但是預算沒有通過這些項目你剛剛說我們的AI你說幾年之內你甚至是不是說我們要超過韓國幾年之內要超越韓國我們的目標三年之內要超越韓國我們台灣喊出來了嘛但是你的預算在哪裡你沒有錢你的計畫怎麼做"},{"start":731.041,"end":751.239,"text":"主委這非常重要所以我要拜託你在立法院被尋的時候你們只要負責任的把這些計畫的重要性對我們國家來說我們的國民為什麼需要它請清楚的告訴國民政治的事情我們立委會來負責但是你們要清楚的向國民說明因為這是你們的專業好不好是謝謝委員好謝謝"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:58:32 - 11:11:08","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【9月30日及10月3日二天一次會】）","id":154974,"gazette":{"lineno":701,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（10時58分）謝謝主席，我請吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：吳委員好！"],["吳委員沛憶：主委好！主委，剛剛前面的委員問你，沒有能源就沒有AI，其實沒有預算也更不可能有AI，所以我替你感到很辛苦……"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝。"],["吳委員沛憶：科學理性，還要有務實……"],["吳主任委員誠文：多謝。"],["吳委員沛憶：現在在野黨的立委又要擋預算，剛剛又要你們做一堆工作，沒有預算要怎麼做？所以在備詢的時候，你們要理性務實地把你們遇到的困難向委員以及市民報告，因為你站在備詢臺，我站在質詢臺，你不只對立委負責，你是對全國的人民負責……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝。"],["吳委員沛憶：都要清楚地去說明。","接下來，在進入今天這個專題報告討論之前，因為我看到一個新聞相當擔憂，想跟主委先請教，有媒體報導，中國的半導體有可能技術已經追趕到不只落後臺灣3年。這是個很震驚的消息！但是因為這是媒體報導的、報載的，主委，因為你也是半導體專業，所以我想要請教，對於這樣子的報導，你有什麼樣的評論？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我其實存疑啦！"],["吳委員沛憶：中國在近年之內有可能半導體的技術追趕上臺灣嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我認為10年以上落差。"],["吳委員沛憶：目前的落差至少10年以上嘛，中國半導體晶片現在是幾奈米？7奈米嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：7奈米。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們臺灣台積電現在5奈米，而且我們即將就要達到2奈米的目標，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：台積電已經進到2奈米了。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，所以剛剛主委你說中國的半導體現在落後臺灣至少10年以上，我看到這個消息很震驚，我知道你是這個專業，所以今天先跟您請教。","接下來有關今天我們的專題報告，剛剛前面非常多委員都很關注的，當然就是我們的學門在學界引起很大的討論，因為前面的委員剛剛也討論很多，我直接進結論，請教一下我們現在關於永續發展科學、防災科技、空間資訊科技等三個學門有沒有要進行整併或者是調整？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有。"],["吳委員沛憶：沒有嘛，好。這三個學門我們要繼續來支持，在預算方面有沒有進行調整？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，我們其實早就編好了明年的預算，今年三個學門的預算4.8億，我們明年已經編到5.2億了，所以我們是持續在支持。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以我們的預算會持續來增加？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，已經編列了，希望不要被刪減。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，所以學門不會調整、預算要增加，這個也是我希望看到的方向。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們是很正面的。"],["吳委員沛憶：但是這個不能只看結果，過程當中我相信剛剛前面很多委員都提醒了，在整個學界社群當中的參與討論、各方的諮詢、公開透明等等這件事情為什麼這麼重要？因為這幾個學門正好就叫做跨領域的研究。2017年聯合國教科文組織也提出了跨領域的研究，這是對我們未來全球性挑戰的一個解方，2020年OECD的報告同樣告訴我們跨領域研究的重要性，因為它是跨領域，其中一定會有不同的單位、一定會有更多的參與者，所以決策的透明以及擴大參與兩點至關重要，請你們未來不管有怎麼樣的更動，一定要遵守這樣子的程序，可不可以？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，同意。"],["吳委員沛憶：接下來要跟主委討論大家都很關心的，從上個會期我們都在關切的就是AI，因為AI是現在全世界最關注的科技議題，蕭美琴副總統在AI年會上面說，AI是革命！而革命當中是成是敗取決於我們能否跟上時代，我們現在看到有幾個評估資料說，臺灣的AI產業目前在亞洲是落後新加坡、落後南韓、落後日本，甚至落後中國。這有好幾份報告，目前有一份我們的名次是第19名，主委，你怎麼看待這個名次？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個我們要虛心檢討，因為過去臺灣其實一直重點發展我們的硬體產業來供給全世界應用AI的算力，我們過去比較忽略掉國內自己要發展自己的應用，所以在所謂的……"],["吳委員沛憶：你是說準備度嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：準備度，對，所以我們現在已經積極在編列未來幾年的預算來增加我們的算力，增加算力以後，利用這些算力除了做科技研究之外，也準備把這個研究成果要擴散到應用面，能夠開發自己的主權AI、應用系統、雲端服務，讓我們的人民可以受惠，百工百業的發展可以利用到我們自己發展出來的系統，所以不只是供給到全世界的硬體，我們國內也要應用到自己發展的這個系統，這樣子的話，我相信未來幾年我們排名會逐步的上升、會進到全世界的前段班。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，我相信！因為半導體已經是我們的優勢了，如果能夠應用到AI產業，我們其實是有相當的競爭力跟未來的發展潛力。","我再看我們的幾個數字，一個是準備度，我們目前的排名是在第19名，可是跟中國來比較，111年度我們甚至曾經一度領先中國，我想它是動態性的發展，所以你剛剛講到我們現在的準備跟規劃，其實朝向中長期就要開始來投入了嘛，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：那以算力來說，我比較關切的是超級電腦算力也有一個排名，輝達在去年建置的超級電腦目前排名是全球第38名，但是我們國科會自己的臺灣杉2號、臺灣杉3號到目前都是在百名以外！我看你們這個臺灣杉2號是2018年建置的，所以時間也算是舊，因為這個就是在跟時間賽跑嘛。"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，已經5年了，所以我們要加緊腳步。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們打算怎麼樣來加強？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在已經在建新的資料中心了，我相信明年開始運作以後，我們的排名就會往前了，我們未來幾年預算會逐年再編列、再增加，明年是重點，我們明年編了四十幾億，希望把這個資料中心、超級電腦的設備一下可以提升很多，也開始啟動我們的應用系統開發，那會結合我們的產業界一起來加入，所以不只政府自己的投資，我相信臺灣的產業因為政府的投資、引導以及應用的開發、主權AI的建置，我們的產業界也會積極投入，所以速度會比我們現在設想的還要快，我想大家可以拭目以待。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，所以明年的預算如果通過的話，對我們的算力提升會是一個關鍵的支持，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：非常重要，是很關鍵！"],["吳委員沛憶：你們要去說明清楚。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：另外，主委多次提到主權AI，能不能說明什麼叫主權AI？"],["吳主任委員誠文：主權AI第一點就是我們的訓練資料要用本土的訓練資料，因為應用在本土，所以國內應用我們自己的資料，我們要建我們自己的資料中心。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們目前有沒有自己的AI？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們有部分的公司自己有在做，但是我們政府還有一般民眾的使用目前主要還是仰賴國外的這些系統，所以我們很多的資料大概都散布到全世界去了，將來比較關鍵性的資料我們希望能夠留在國內，所以要建自己的資料中心是很重要的；再來就是發展自主的應用系統，自主應用系統是可以配合我們自己的資料，訓練出比較有能源使用效率的、比較好的運算模型，能夠讓臺灣的民眾受惠於我們自己的主權AI建置，能夠提供更多增進民眾福祉的這些應用。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以我們的臺德也算是其中之一嘛？"],["吳主任委員誠文：臺德只是一個先期的。"],["吳委員沛憶：只是其中之一的……"],["吳主任委員誠文：其中之一。"],["吳委員沛憶：但是還包括很多其他計畫，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在學界還有其他的模型也在……"],["吳委員沛憶：講到主權AI我也關切，因為我看到有傳出一個消息說，去年底的時候OpenAI開始跟中東的投資者有在討論，未來OpenAI有可能會把資料中心建置在中東，為什麼大家會這麼擔心？因為這有地緣政治的關聯，包括中東、俄羅斯、中國這些集權國家，我們擔心會產生資安的漏洞跟後門，所以我們臺灣要建置自己的主權AI，世界各國也都在努力要建置自己的主權AI，這一點相當的重要！","所以我一再地說，預算啊！因為現在在野黨把我們總預算整個退回、擋預算，甚至坊間有一種似是而非的說法是，如果是沿用去年的預算，不管立法院有沒有通過都可以繼續動支，所以沒差、沒影響。但光是我們剛剛提到主權AI相關的幾個計畫，很多都叫做新增預算，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：新增預算根據預算法規，立法院沒有通過可不可以動支？不可以耶！所以你們要去把它說明清楚，主委！大家人生在世有很多非常珍貴的事情跟時間要做，既然花時間在這裡質詢、備詢了，不要打假球、不要演戲！既然大家都認為AI要發展、我們要進步，除了剛剛講的新增預算還包括什麼？我幫你看了，你明年的新增預算總共有14.6億，有氣候變遷研究的、有空間永續規劃的、有疾病導向的生醫資料研究，還有我們的綠能設施、實驗高級中學學校建設計畫、科學園區的電價補差、實驗中學電價優惠等等，這些都叫做新增預算！我過去是當市議員、現在當立法委員，大家都有預算法的概念，新增預算立法院沒有通過，你們通通一毛錢不准用，沒有預算怎麼推動計畫？所以剛剛大家在這邊討論這麼多，AI要發展、主權AI每個國家都在關心，但是我們如果要馬兒跑又不給馬兒吃草，不給預算的話，請問這個計畫要怎麼進行？你的計畫要怎麼進行？你沒有辦法動的，主委，所以你也必須要負責任地向市民報告，講了這麼多該做的事情，可是預算沒有通過，而這些項目，你剛剛說我們的AI，你甚至是不是說我們在幾年之內要超越韓國？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們當然希望超越韓國。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們的目標是3年之內要超越韓國，我們臺灣喊出來了嘛！但是你的預算在哪裡？你沒有錢你的計畫怎麼做？主委，這非常重要，所以我要拜託你在立法院備詢的時候，你們只要負責任地把這些計畫的重要性，對我們國家來說，我們的國民為什麼需要它，請清楚地告訴國民，政治的事情我們立委會來負責，但是你們要清楚地向國民說明，因為這是你們的專業，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝委員。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝吳沛憶委員，吳主委請回。","休息5分鐘。","休息（11時11分）","繼續開會（11時16分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","再來請張雅琳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-2","speakers":["范雲","洪孟楷","萬美玲","柯志恩","葉元之","林倩綺","吳沛憶","羅廷瑋","葛如鈞","張雅琳","林宜瑾","洪申翰","郭昱晴","陳秀寳","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","吳春城","陳冠廷","鄭正鈐","翁曉玲","游顥"],"page_start":217,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席就「永續科研與政策溝通」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1137701_00012"}}}