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436.904, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 436.904, \"end\": 437.004, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 437.004, \"end\": 437.904, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 437.904, \"end\": 438.325, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 438.325, \"end\": 439.506, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"獎\"}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 439.506, \"end\": 439.626, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 439.626, \"end\": 439.866, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 439.866, \"end\": 440.326, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 440.326, \"end\": 440.446, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 440.446, \"end\": 440.586, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 440.586, \"end\": 440.726, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 440.726, \"end\": 440.966, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 449.612, \"end\": 450.593, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 450.593, \"end\": 450.733, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 450.733, \"end\": 450.973, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 450.973, \"end\": 451.133, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 451.133, \"end\": 451.353, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 451.353, \"end\": 451.553, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 451.553, \"end\": 451.733, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 451.733, \"end\": 451.953, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 451.953, \"end\": 452.054, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 452.054, \"end\": 452.214, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 452.214, \"end\": 452.374, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 452.374, \"end\": 452.594, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 452.594, \"end\": 453.114, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"譬\", \"start\": 453.114, \"end\": 453.294, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 453.294, \"end\": 453.494, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 453.494, \"end\": 453.655, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"雄\", \"start\": 453.655, \"end\": 453.875, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 453.875, \"end\": 454.015, \"score\": 0.645}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 454.015, \"end\": 454.235, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 454.235, \"end\": 454.435, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 454.435, \"end\": 454.615, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 454.615, \"end\": 455.095, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 455.095, \"end\": 455.236, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 455.236, \"end\": 455.396, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 455.396, \"end\": 455.536, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 455.536, \"end\": 455.696, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 455.696, \"end\": 455.896, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 455.896, \"end\": 456.276, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"獲\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 456.276, \"end\": 456.456, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 456.456, \"end\": 456.636, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 456.636, \"end\": 456.857, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 456.857, \"end\": 457.137, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 457.137, \"end\": 457.157, \"score\": 0.393}]}, {\"start\": 457.717, \"end\": 469.02, \"text\": \"但是就我所知道高雄市的都市計劃委員會很少用移居城市這四個字當成個別個案上面容積獎勵的一個最主要的指標那當然我們都是尊重每個縣市政府對他們容積獎勵上面的一個指導或者是其他的這個方向上的指示但是我們還是一再的跟外面講清楚說明白容積獎勵你在經過都市計劃委員會不管是各級的都委會的時候\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 457.717, \"end\": 457.837, \"score\": 0.552}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 457.837, \"end\": 457.977, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 457.977, \"end\": 458.117, \"score\": 0.536}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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554.469, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 554.469, \"end\": 554.669, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"置\", \"start\": 554.669, \"end\": 554.829, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 554.829, \"end\": 554.969, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 554.969, \"end\": 555.189, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 555.189, \"end\": 555.209, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:22,402 --> 00:00:28,805\n請部長先回座,今天颱風所以時間先不要開始先跟主席做一個會議詢問\n\n2\n00:00:30,543 --> 00:00:43,740\n主席我們今天是一次會但是我們禮拜三是審消防法目前齁我剛剛跟黃婕委員我們有做一個討論我們剛剛也都在關心這個三坨而颱風的這些的這個動態喔\n\n3\n00:00:47,230 --> 00:01:11,003\n很有可能是禮拜二或禮拜三很有可能是屏東甚至剛剛高雄點已經看這個颱風一直在轉向那部長也一直點頭可能會從高雄登陸啦如果禮拜三從高雄登陸我們這裡排這個消防法的審修第一個對於我們南部委員來講這個我們覺得壓力很大\n\n4\n00:01:14,039 --> 00:01:33,745\n第二個對於所有一線的消防人員來講我們覺得那一天可能要做一個事實的討論跟評估在這邊先做一個會議的建議那會後再跟主席做相關的討論來好謝謝謝謝主席來我們請國土署署長來請署長委員好署長\n\n5\n00:01:43,533 --> 00:02:06,639\n今天很多委員齁我是第九位槌尋委員齁今天很多委員在前面把我們國土署回覆給立法院的這三張公文齁大家都非常熟讀而且來詢問這個署長那我想熟讀詢問之外其實跟我們今天所要審的這個都市更新條例的第65條修正案其實\n\n6\n00:02:08,044 --> 00:02:29,776\n我想要用很白話的來跟所有的民眾來做一個解釋我們今天審的條例這個都更條例第六十五條我們是在審1999年以前已經蓋好但是經過這個容積的都更條例的這個限制之後事實上它蓋好的房子是超過之後的容積的\n\n7\n00:02:31,601 --> 00:02:54,842\n我們希望可以放寬他甚至可以獎勵他讓未來這一些已經超過30年的房子未來他在做都更比較沒有問題那我想剛才大部分大多的委員也提出了相關同意的這些認可之外提案的委員跟我們國土署跟內政部提的方向也大致一致這個是攸關我們\n\n8\n00:02:57,424 --> 00:03:23,229\n人民住的地方的容積攸關我們這個容積我們現在住30坪那未來我參與都更之後他會不會少於30坪我想我們是在討論這一個我們先給予正面的正面的回應那在9月20號國土署回應給立法院某個委員辦公室的公文裡面\n\n9\n00:03:24,851 --> 00:03:47,728\n這個是針對某一個商業廣場他經營不善以後他要改變他的經營模式甚至他要拿出來賣那他經過易守之後他拿出來賣之後他在跟台北市政府爭取相關的容積我到現在也看不懂了齁這個\n\n10\n00:03:50,725 --> 00:04:17,382\n根據這個都市計畫容積管制根據這個第24條、26條、27條到底在自提還是通檢還是做這些變更等等的好像只要有辦法來提升它的容積每一項都要都想要放進去那我舉我自己選區的例子這個我稍後就要請劉部長上來也跟劉部長做一個比較深的討論來部長\n\n11\n00:04:28,958 --> 00:04:44,351\n長期過去跟你在高雄市政府也擔任過高雄市政府這個都市計畫都市計畫的主委都市計畫委員會的主委針對高雄市的這些包含容積的這些獎勵等等你是非常嚴格的把關\n\n12\n00:04:45,972 --> 00:05:10,547\n針對於歷史建築保存或者是有公共建設交通設施或者是有綠建築或者是有社宅或者是有都跟計劃區域的這些我們才可能給予相關的這些容積的獎勵那我在國土署這一份公文裡面其實我看不到這個商業空間有任何以上的這些容積獎勵的這些基礎\n\n13\n00:05:13,168 --> 00:05:28,738\n但是我卻看到臺北市政府是給予任性城市、智慧城市、宜居城市的這個獎勵的這些龍獎我是覺得蠻奇怪的那這個相關的包含國土署這邊給\n\n14\n00:05:31,343 --> 00:05:58,081\n立法院的這個公文說避免就單一或特定或單一對象與西部設計計畫的這些規定的項目我想這幾句話不是對行政部門講的這幾句話第一個是在騙民眾第二個應該是在跟檢察官以及法官講的說避免不等於禁止這個如果在我們上一個會期通過的反質詢以及藐視國會項目裡面\n\n15\n00:06:00,262 --> 00:06:29,364\n如果用這一個公文來質詢吳行修署長吳行修署長你可能就是藐視國會啊你知道嗎所以我在這邊也很感謝剛剛幾位委員那也給署長這邊很清楚的說明那我也說明一下為什麼請部長上來就是在你在高雄市政府任內我們所爭取的這個眷村文化保留園區裡面目前也正進行一個文化眷村都更文化眷村都更在做什麼就是把\n\n16\n00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:47,791\n高雄海軍眷村文化保留園區我們把緯六路以北目前都沒有開發的區域來跟民間來合作希望可以作為開發而開發所獲得的資金可以來保存緯六路以南\n\n17\n00:06:48,531 --> 00:07:12,320\n這一些相關的眷村文化保留園區高度的保存它現貌而且可以加以修繕這個是高雄市政府目前跟國防部以及跟文化部、文化局正在進行的這一個工作那我們也會繼續的來投入在部長以前曾經做過很多努力在這邊也跟部長做一個報告\n\n18\n00:07:15,263 --> 00:07:37,157\n抱歉委員你講得沒有錯各項容積獎勵第一個基礎就是要有必要性跟公益性所謂的必要性跟公益性譬如說這是一個危險的地方或者這是一個環境敏感的地方然後再來就是說必要性跟公益性非常的重要譬如說高雄市很早以前比台北市更早獲得移居城市\n\n19\n00:07:37,717 --> 00:07:49,020\n但是就我所知道高雄市的都市計劃委員會很少用移居城市這四個字當成個別個案上面容積獎勵的一個最主要的指標那當然我們都是尊重每個縣市政府對他們容積獎勵上面的一個指導或者是其他的這個方向上的指示但是我們還是一再的跟外面講清楚說明白容積獎勵你在經過都市計劃委員會不管是各級的都委會的時候\n\n20\n00:08:05,005 --> 00:08:20,098\n確定一定要符合必要性跟公益性公益性這三個字非常的重要如果它是商業性的話第一個大部分的都市計劃委員包括是官方或會官方或學者專家通常會同意的比例不會太高\n\n21\n00:08:20,498 --> 00:08:42,961\n今天其實也有三個直轄市的這個都發局的同仁在這裡這個也作為日後的參考那直轄市當然是可以有核定相關的這一些都市計畫但是如果沒有符合剛剛講的這一些未來還是會被受到挑戰的而且這個有釋法性的問題另外最後想要再對\n\n22\n00:08:44,582 --> 00:09:12,728\n未來可能在住宅法裡面有這些相關公辦都跟以及這個社會住宅的時候都可以納入附近的這些可能必須要安置的住戶的這些空間那我們會未來在住宅法裡面做一個修法讓租入中心未來的這些不管是社會住宅或者是未來的產業住宅包含高雄舊左宗以及中遊宿舍區域等等的這些居民有安置\n\n23\n00:09:13,228 --> 00:09:15,209\n的作用以有安置的效果。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n22402\t28805\t請部長先回座,今天颱風所以時間先不要開始先跟主席做一個會議詢問\n30543\t43740\t主席我們今天是一次會但是我們禮拜三是審消防法目前齁我剛剛跟黃婕委員我們有做一個討論我們剛剛也都在關心這個三坨而颱風的這些的這個動態喔\n47230\t71003\t很有可能是禮拜二或禮拜三很有可能是屏東甚至剛剛高雄點已經看這個颱風一直在轉向那部長也一直點頭可能會從高雄登陸啦如果禮拜三從高雄登陸我們這裡排這個消防法的審修第一個對於我們南部委員來講這個我們覺得壓力很大\n74039\t93745\t第二個對於所有一線的消防人員來講我們覺得那一天可能要做一個事實的討論跟評估在這邊先做一個會議的建議那會後再跟主席做相關的討論來好謝謝謝謝主席來我們請國土署署長來請署長委員好署長\n103533\t126639\t今天很多委員齁我是第九位槌尋委員齁今天很多委員在前面把我們國土署回覆給立法院的這三張公文齁大家都非常熟讀而且來詢問這個署長那我想熟讀詢問之外其實跟我們今天所要審的這個都市更新條例的第65條修正案其實\n128044\t149776\t我想要用很白話的來跟所有的民眾來做一個解釋我們今天審的條例這個都更條例第六十五條我們是在審1999年以前已經蓋好但是經過這個容積的都更條例的這個限制之後事實上它蓋好的房子是超過之後的容積的\n151601\t174842\t我們希望可以放寬他甚至可以獎勵他讓未來這一些已經超過30年的房子未來他在做都更比較沒有問題那我想剛才大部分大多的委員也提出了相關同意的這些認可之外提案的委員跟我們國土署跟內政部提的方向也大致一致這個是攸關我們\n177424\t203229\t人民住的地方的容積攸關我們這個容積我們現在住30坪那未來我參與都更之後他會不會少於30坪我想我們是在討論這一個我們先給予正面的正面的回應那在9月20號國土署回應給立法院某個委員辦公室的公文裡面\n204851\t227728\t這個是針對某一個商業廣場他經營不善以後他要改變他的經營模式甚至他要拿出來賣那他經過易守之後他拿出來賣之後他在跟台北市政府爭取相關的容積我到現在也看不懂了齁這個\n230725\t257382\t根據這個都市計畫容積管制根據這個第24條、26條、27條到底在自提還是通檢還是做這些變更等等的好像只要有辦法來提升它的容積每一項都要都想要放進去那我舉我自己選區的例子這個我稍後就要請劉部長上來也跟劉部長做一個比較深的討論來部長\n268958\t284351\t長期過去跟你在高雄市政府也擔任過高雄市政府這個都市計畫都市計畫的主委都市計畫委員會的主委針對高雄市的這些包含容積的這些獎勵等等你是非常嚴格的把關\n285972\t310547\t針對於歷史建築保存或者是有公共建設交通設施或者是有綠建築或者是有社宅或者是有都跟計劃區域的這些我們才可能給予相關的這些容積的獎勵那我在國土署這一份公文裡面其實我看不到這個商業空間有任何以上的這些容積獎勵的這些基礎\n313168\t328738\t但是我卻看到臺北市政府是給予任性城市、智慧城市、宜居城市的這個獎勵的這些龍獎我是覺得蠻奇怪的那這個相關的包含國土署這邊給\n331343\t358081\t立法院的這個公文說避免就單一或特定或單一對象與西部設計計畫的這些規定的項目我想這幾句話不是對行政部門講的這幾句話第一個是在騙民眾第二個應該是在跟檢察官以及法官講的說避免不等於禁止這個如果在我們上一個會期通過的反質詢以及藐視國會項目裡面\n360262\t389364\t如果用這一個公文來質詢吳行修署長吳行修署長你可能就是藐視國會啊你知道嗎所以我在這邊也很感謝剛剛幾位委員那也給署長這邊很清楚的說明那我也說明一下為什麼請部長上來就是在你在高雄市政府任內我們所爭取的這個眷村文化保留園區裡面目前也正進行一個文化眷村都更文化眷村都更在做什麼就是把\n390319\t407791\t高雄海軍眷村文化保留園區我們把緯六路以北目前都沒有開發的區域來跟民間來合作希望可以作為開發而開發所獲得的資金可以來保存緯六路以南\n408531\t432320\t這一些相關的眷村文化保留園區高度的保存它現貌而且可以加以修繕這個是高雄市政府目前跟國防部以及跟文化部、文化局正在進行的這一個工作那我們也會繼續的來投入在部長以前曾經做過很多努力在這邊也跟部長做一個報告\n435263\t457157\t抱歉 委員你講得沒有錯各項容積獎勵第一個基礎就是要有必要性跟公益性所謂的必要性跟公益性譬如說這是一個危險的地方或者這是一個環境敏感的地方然後再來就是說必要性跟公益性非常的重要譬如說高雄市很早以前比台北市更早獲得移居城市\n457717\t469020\t但是就我所知道高雄市的都市計劃委員會很少用移居城市這四個字當成個別個案上面容積獎勵的一個最主要的指標那當然我們都是尊重每個縣市政府對他們容積獎勵上面的一個指導或者是其他的這個方向上的指示但是我們還是一再的跟外面講清楚說明白容積獎勵你在經過都市計劃委員會不管是各級的都委會的時候\n485005\t500098\t確定一定要符合必要性跟公益性公益性這三個字非常的重要如果它是商業性的話第一個大部分的都市計劃委員包括是官方或會官方或學者專家通常會同意的比例不會太高\n500498\t522961\t今天其實也有三個直轄市的這個都發局的同仁在這裡這個也作為日後的參考那直轄市當然是可以有核定相關的這一些都市計畫但是如果沒有符合剛剛講的這一些未來還是會被受到挑戰的而且這個有釋法性的問題另外最後想要再對\n524582\t552728\t未來可能在住宅法裡面有這些相關公辦都跟以及這個社會住宅的時候都可以納入附近的這些可能必須要安置的住戶的這些空間那我們會未來在住宅法裡面做一個修法讓租入中心未來的這些不管是社會住宅或者是未來的產業住宅包含高雄舊左宗以及中遊宿舍區域等等的這些居民有安置\n553228\t555209\t的作用以有安置的效果。\n","txt":"請部長先回座,今天颱風所以時間先不要開始先跟主席做一個會議詢問\n主席我們今天是一次會但是我們禮拜三是審消防法目前齁我剛剛跟黃婕委員我們有做一個討論我們剛剛也都在關心這個三坨而颱風的這些的這個動態喔\n很有可能是禮拜二或禮拜三很有可能是屏東甚至剛剛高雄點已經看這個颱風一直在轉向那部長也一直點頭可能會從高雄登陸啦如果禮拜三從高雄登陸我們這裡排這個消防法的審修第一個對於我們南部委員來講這個我們覺得壓力很大\n第二個對於所有一線的消防人員來講我們覺得那一天可能要做一個事實的討論跟評估在這邊先做一個會議的建議那會後再跟主席做相關的討論來好謝謝謝謝主席來我們請國土署署長來請署長委員好署長\n今天很多委員齁我是第九位槌尋委員齁今天很多委員在前面把我們國土署回覆給立法院的這三張公文齁大家都非常熟讀而且來詢問這個署長那我想熟讀詢問之外其實跟我們今天所要審的這個都市更新條例的第65條修正案其實\n我想要用很白話的來跟所有的民眾來做一個解釋我們今天審的條例這個都更條例第六十五條我們是在審1999年以前已經蓋好但是經過這個容積的都更條例的這個限制之後事實上它蓋好的房子是超過之後的容積的\n我們希望可以放寬他甚至可以獎勵他讓未來這一些已經超過30年的房子未來他在做都更比較沒有問題那我想剛才大部分大多的委員也提出了相關同意的這些認可之外提案的委員跟我們國土署跟內政部提的方向也大致一致這個是攸關我們\n人民住的地方的容積攸關我們這個容積我們現在住30坪那未來我參與都更之後他會不會少於30坪我想我們是在討論這一個我們先給予正面的正面的回應那在9月20號國土署回應給立法院某個委員辦公室的公文裡面\n這個是針對某一個商業廣場他經營不善以後他要改變他的經營模式甚至他要拿出來賣那他經過易守之後他拿出來賣之後他在跟台北市政府爭取相關的容積我到現在也看不懂了齁這個\n根據這個都市計畫容積管制根據這個第24條、26條、27條到底在自提還是通檢還是做這些變更等等的好像只要有辦法來提升它的容積每一項都要都想要放進去那我舉我自己選區的例子這個我稍後就要請劉部長上來也跟劉部長做一個比較深的討論來部長\n長期過去跟你在高雄市政府也擔任過高雄市政府這個都市計畫都市計畫的主委都市計畫委員會的主委針對高雄市的這些包含容積的這些獎勵等等你是非常嚴格的把關\n針對於歷史建築保存或者是有公共建設交通設施或者是有綠建築或者是有社宅或者是有都跟計劃區域的這些我們才可能給予相關的這些容積的獎勵那我在國土署這一份公文裡面其實我看不到這個商業空間有任何以上的這些容積獎勵的這些基礎\n但是我卻看到臺北市政府是給予任性城市、智慧城市、宜居城市的這個獎勵的這些龍獎我是覺得蠻奇怪的那這個相關的包含國土署這邊給\n立法院的這個公文說避免就單一或特定或單一對象與西部設計計畫的這些規定的項目我想這幾句話不是對行政部門講的這幾句話第一個是在騙民眾第二個應該是在跟檢察官以及法官講的說避免不等於禁止這個如果在我們上一個會期通過的反質詢以及藐視國會項目裡面\n如果用這一個公文來質詢吳行修署長吳行修署長你可能就是藐視國會啊你知道嗎所以我在這邊也很感謝剛剛幾位委員那也給署長這邊很清楚的說明那我也說明一下為什麼請部長上來就是在你在高雄市政府任內我們所爭取的這個眷村文化保留園區裡面目前也正進行一個文化眷村都更文化眷村都更在做什麼就是把\n高雄海軍眷村文化保留園區我們把緯六路以北目前都沒有開發的區域來跟民間來合作希望可以作為開發而開發所獲得的資金可以來保存緯六路以南\n這一些相關的眷村文化保留園區高度的保存它現貌而且可以加以修繕這個是高雄市政府目前跟國防部以及跟文化部、文化局正在進行的這一個工作那我們也會繼續的來投入在部長以前曾經做過很多努力在這邊也跟部長做一個報告\n抱歉 委員你講得沒有錯各項容積獎勵第一個基礎就是要有必要性跟公益性所謂的必要性跟公益性譬如說這是一個危險的地方或者這是一個環境敏感的地方然後再來就是說必要性跟公益性非常的重要譬如說高雄市很早以前比台北市更早獲得移居城市\n但是就我所知道高雄市的都市計劃委員會很少用移居城市這四個字當成個別個案上面容積獎勵的一個最主要的指標那當然我們都是尊重每個縣市政府對他們容積獎勵上面的一個指導或者是其他的這個方向上的指示但是我們還是一再的跟外面講清楚說明白容積獎勵你在經過都市計劃委員會不管是各級的都委會的時候\n確定一定要符合必要性跟公益性公益性這三個字非常的重要如果它是商業性的話第一個大部分的都市計劃委員包括是官方或會官方或學者專家通常會同意的比例不會太高\n今天其實也有三個直轄市的這個都發局的同仁在這裡這個也作為日後的參考那直轄市當然是可以有核定相關的這一些都市計畫但是如果沒有符合剛剛講的這一些未來還是會被受到挑戰的而且這個有釋法性的問題另外最後想要再對\n未來可能在住宅法裡面有這些相關公辦都跟以及這個社會住宅的時候都可以納入附近的這些可能必須要安置的住戶的這些空間那我們會未來在住宅法裡面做一個修法讓租入中心未來的這些不管是社會住宅或者是未來的產業住宅包含高雄舊左宗以及中遊宿舍區域等等的這些居民有安置\n的作用以有安置的效果。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:22.402 --> 00:28.805\n請部長先回座,今天颱風所以時間先不要開始先跟主席做一個會議詢問\n\n00:30.543 --> 00:43.740\n主席我們今天是一次會但是我們禮拜三是審消防法目前齁我剛剛跟黃婕委員我們有做一個討論我們剛剛也都在關心這個三坨而颱風的這些的這個動態喔\n\n00:47.230 --> 01:11.003\n很有可能是禮拜二或禮拜三很有可能是屏東甚至剛剛高雄點已經看這個颱風一直在轉向那部長也一直點頭可能會從高雄登陸啦如果禮拜三從高雄登陸我們這裡排這個消防法的審修第一個對於我們南部委員來講這個我們覺得壓力很大\n\n01:14.039 --> 01:33.745\n第二個對於所有一線的消防人員來講我們覺得那一天可能要做一個事實的討論跟評估在這邊先做一個會議的建議那會後再跟主席做相關的討論來好謝謝謝謝主席來我們請國土署署長來請署長委員好署長\n\n01:43.533 --> 02:06.639\n今天很多委員齁我是第九位槌尋委員齁今天很多委員在前面把我們國土署回覆給立法院的這三張公文齁大家都非常熟讀而且來詢問這個署長那我想熟讀詢問之外其實跟我們今天所要審的這個都市更新條例的第65條修正案其實\n\n02:08.044 --> 02:29.776\n我想要用很白話的來跟所有的民眾來做一個解釋我們今天審的條例這個都更條例第六十五條我們是在審1999年以前已經蓋好但是經過這個容積的都更條例的這個限制之後事實上它蓋好的房子是超過之後的容積的\n\n02:31.601 --> 02:54.842\n我們希望可以放寬他甚至可以獎勵他讓未來這一些已經超過30年的房子未來他在做都更比較沒有問題那我想剛才大部分大多的委員也提出了相關同意的這些認可之外提案的委員跟我們國土署跟內政部提的方向也大致一致這個是攸關我們\n\n02:57.424 --> 03:23.229\n人民住的地方的容積攸關我們這個容積我們現在住30坪那未來我參與都更之後他會不會少於30坪我想我們是在討論這一個我們先給予正面的正面的回應那在9月20號國土署回應給立法院某個委員辦公室的公文裡面\n\n03:24.851 --> 03:47.728\n這個是針對某一個商業廣場他經營不善以後他要改變他的經營模式甚至他要拿出來賣那他經過易守之後他拿出來賣之後他在跟台北市政府爭取相關的容積我到現在也看不懂了齁這個\n\n03:50.725 --> 04:17.382\n根據這個都市計畫容積管制根據這個第24條、26條、27條到底在自提還是通檢還是做這些變更等等的好像只要有辦法來提升它的容積每一項都要都想要放進去那我舉我自己選區的例子這個我稍後就要請劉部長上來也跟劉部長做一個比較深的討論來部長\n\n04:28.958 --> 04:44.351\n長期過去跟你在高雄市政府也擔任過高雄市政府這個都市計畫都市計畫的主委都市計畫委員會的主委針對高雄市的這些包含容積的這些獎勵等等你是非常嚴格的把關\n\n04:45.972 --> 05:10.547\n針對於歷史建築保存或者是有公共建設交通設施或者是有綠建築或者是有社宅或者是有都跟計劃區域的這些我們才可能給予相關的這些容積的獎勵那我在國土署這一份公文裡面其實我看不到這個商業空間有任何以上的這些容積獎勵的這些基礎\n\n05:13.168 --> 05:28.738\n但是我卻看到臺北市政府是給予任性城市、智慧城市、宜居城市的這個獎勵的這些龍獎我是覺得蠻奇怪的那這個相關的包含國土署這邊給\n\n05:31.343 --> 05:58.081\n立法院的這個公文說避免就單一或特定或單一對象與西部設計計畫的這些規定的項目我想這幾句話不是對行政部門講的這幾句話第一個是在騙民眾第二個應該是在跟檢察官以及法官講的說避免不等於禁止這個如果在我們上一個會期通過的反質詢以及藐視國會項目裡面\n\n06:00.262 --> 06:29.364\n如果用這一個公文來質詢吳行修署長吳行修署長你可能就是藐視國會啊你知道嗎所以我在這邊也很感謝剛剛幾位委員那也給署長這邊很清楚的說明那我也說明一下為什麼請部長上來就是在你在高雄市政府任內我們所爭取的這個眷村文化保留園區裡面目前也正進行一個文化眷村都更文化眷村都更在做什麼就是把\n\n06:30.319 --> 06:47.791\n高雄海軍眷村文化保留園區我們把緯六路以北目前都沒有開發的區域來跟民間來合作希望可以作為開發而開發所獲得的資金可以來保存緯六路以南\n\n06:48.531 --> 07:12.320\n這一些相關的眷村文化保留園區高度的保存它現貌而且可以加以修繕這個是高雄市政府目前跟國防部以及跟文化部、文化局正在進行的這一個工作那我們也會繼續的來投入在部長以前曾經做過很多努力在這邊也跟部長做一個報告\n\n07:15.263 --> 07:37.157\n抱歉委員你講得沒有錯各項容積獎勵第一個基礎就是要有必要性跟公益性所謂的必要性跟公益性譬如說這是一個危險的地方或者這是一個環境敏感的地方然後再來就是說必要性跟公益性非常的重要譬如說高雄市很早以前比台北市更早獲得移居城市\n\n07:37.717 --> 07:49.020\n但是就我所知道高雄市的都市計劃委員會很少用移居城市這四個字當成個別個案上面容積獎勵的一個最主要的指標那當然我們都是尊重每個縣市政府對他們容積獎勵上面的一個指導或者是其他的這個方向上的指示但是我們還是一再的跟外面講清楚說明白容積獎勵你在經過都市計劃委員會不管是各級的都委會的時候\n\n08:05.005 --> 08:20.098\n確定一定要符合必要性跟公益性公益性這三個字非常的重要如果它是商業性的話第一個大部分的都市計劃委員包括是官方或會官方或學者專家通常會同意的比例不會太高\n\n08:20.498 --> 08:42.961\n今天其實也有三個直轄市的這個都發局的同仁在這裡這個也作為日後的參考那直轄市當然是可以有核定相關的這一些都市計畫但是如果沒有符合剛剛講的這一些未來還是會被受到挑戰的而且這個有釋法性的問題另外最後想要再對\n\n08:44.582 --> 09:12.728\n未來可能在住宅法裡面有這些相關公辦都跟以及這個社會住宅的時候都可以納入附近的這些可能必須要安置的住戶的這些空間那我們會未來在住宅法裡面做一個修法讓租入中心未來的這些不管是社會住宅或者是未來的產業住宅包含高雄舊左宗以及中遊宿舍區域等等的這些居民有安置\n\n09:13.228 --> 09:15.209\n的作用以有安置的效果。\n\n","segments":[{"start":22.402,"end":28.805,"text":"請部長先回座,今天颱風所以時間先不要開始先跟主席做一個會議詢問"},{"start":30.543,"end":43.74,"text":"主席我們今天是一次會但是我們禮拜三是審消防法目前齁我剛剛跟黃婕委員我們有做一個討論我們剛剛也都在關心這個三坨而颱風的這些的這個動態喔"},{"start":47.23,"end":71.003,"text":"很有可能是禮拜二或禮拜三很有可能是屏東甚至剛剛高雄點已經看這個颱風一直在轉向那部長也一直點頭可能會從高雄登陸啦如果禮拜三從高雄登陸我們這裡排這個消防法的審修第一個對於我們南部委員來講這個我們覺得壓力很大"},{"start":74.039,"end":93.745,"text":"第二個對於所有一線的消防人員來講我們覺得那一天可能要做一個事實的討論跟評估在這邊先做一個會議的建議那會後再跟主席做相關的討論來好謝謝謝謝主席來我們請國土署署長來請署長委員好署長"},{"start":103.533,"end":126.639,"text":"今天很多委員齁我是第九位槌尋委員齁今天很多委員在前面把我們國土署回覆給立法院的這三張公文齁大家都非常熟讀而且來詢問這個署長那我想熟讀詢問之外其實跟我們今天所要審的這個都市更新條例的第65條修正案其實"},{"start":128.044,"end":149.776,"text":"我想要用很白話的來跟所有的民眾來做一個解釋我們今天審的條例這個都更條例第六十五條我們是在審1999年以前已經蓋好但是經過這個容積的都更條例的這個限制之後事實上它蓋好的房子是超過之後的容積的"},{"start":151.601,"end":174.842,"text":"我們希望可以放寬他甚至可以獎勵他讓未來這一些已經超過30年的房子未來他在做都更比較沒有問題那我想剛才大部分大多的委員也提出了相關同意的這些認可之外提案的委員跟我們國土署跟內政部提的方向也大致一致這個是攸關我們"},{"start":177.424,"end":203.229,"text":"人民住的地方的容積攸關我們這個容積我們現在住30坪那未來我參與都更之後他會不會少於30坪我想我們是在討論這一個我們先給予正面的正面的回應那在9月20號國土署回應給立法院某個委員辦公室的公文裡面"},{"start":204.851,"end":227.728,"text":"這個是針對某一個商業廣場他經營不善以後他要改變他的經營模式甚至他要拿出來賣那他經過易守之後他拿出來賣之後他在跟台北市政府爭取相關的容積我到現在也看不懂了齁這個"},{"start":230.725,"end":257.382,"text":"根據這個都市計畫容積管制根據這個第24條、26條、27條到底在自提還是通檢還是做這些變更等等的好像只要有辦法來提升它的容積每一項都要都想要放進去那我舉我自己選區的例子這個我稍後就要請劉部長上來也跟劉部長做一個比較深的討論來部長"},{"start":268.958,"end":284.351,"text":"長期過去跟你在高雄市政府也擔任過高雄市政府這個都市計畫都市計畫的主委都市計畫委員會的主委針對高雄市的這些包含容積的這些獎勵等等你是非常嚴格的把關"},{"start":285.972,"end":310.547,"text":"針對於歷史建築保存或者是有公共建設交通設施或者是有綠建築或者是有社宅或者是有都跟計劃區域的這些我們才可能給予相關的這些容積的獎勵那我在國土署這一份公文裡面其實我看不到這個商業空間有任何以上的這些容積獎勵的這些基礎"},{"start":313.168,"end":328.738,"text":"但是我卻看到臺北市政府是給予任性城市、智慧城市、宜居城市的這個獎勵的這些龍獎我是覺得蠻奇怪的那這個相關的包含國土署這邊給"},{"start":331.343,"end":358.081,"text":"立法院的這個公文說避免就單一或特定或單一對象與西部設計計畫的這些規定的項目我想這幾句話不是對行政部門講的這幾句話第一個是在騙民眾第二個應該是在跟檢察官以及法官講的說避免不等於禁止這個如果在我們上一個會期通過的反質詢以及藐視國會項目裡面"},{"start":360.262,"end":389.364,"text":"如果用這一個公文來質詢吳行修署長吳行修署長你可能就是藐視國會啊你知道嗎所以我在這邊也很感謝剛剛幾位委員那也給署長這邊很清楚的說明那我也說明一下為什麼請部長上來就是在你在高雄市政府任內我們所爭取的這個眷村文化保留園區裡面目前也正進行一個文化眷村都更文化眷村都更在做什麼就是把"},{"start":390.319,"end":407.791,"text":"高雄海軍眷村文化保留園區我們把緯六路以北目前都沒有開發的區域來跟民間來合作希望可以作為開發而開發所獲得的資金可以來保存緯六路以南"},{"start":408.531,"end":432.32,"text":"這一些相關的眷村文化保留園區高度的保存它現貌而且可以加以修繕這個是高雄市政府目前跟國防部以及跟文化部、文化局正在進行的這一個工作那我們也會繼續的來投入在部長以前曾經做過很多努力在這邊也跟部長做一個報告"},{"start":435.263,"end":457.157,"text":"抱歉 委員你講得沒有錯各項容積獎勵第一個基礎就是要有必要性跟公益性所謂的必要性跟公益性譬如說這是一個危險的地方或者這是一個環境敏感的地方然後再來就是說必要性跟公益性非常的重要譬如說高雄市很早以前比台北市更早獲得移居城市"},{"start":457.717,"end":469.02,"text":"但是就我所知道高雄市的都市計劃委員會很少用移居城市這四個字當成個別個案上面容積獎勵的一個最主要的指標那當然我們都是尊重每個縣市政府對他們容積獎勵上面的一個指導或者是其他的這個方向上的指示但是我們還是一再的跟外面講清楚說明白容積獎勵你在經過都市計劃委員會不管是各級的都委會的時候"},{"start":485.005,"end":500.098,"text":"確定一定要符合必要性跟公益性公益性這三個字非常的重要如果它是商業性的話第一個大部分的都市計劃委員包括是官方或會官方或學者專家通常會同意的比例不會太高"},{"start":500.498,"end":522.961,"text":"今天其實也有三個直轄市的這個都發局的同仁在這裡這個也作為日後的參考那直轄市當然是可以有核定相關的這一些都市計畫但是如果沒有符合剛剛講的這一些未來還是會被受到挑戰的而且這個有釋法性的問題另外最後想要再對"},{"start":524.582,"end":552.728,"text":"未來可能在住宅法裡面有這些相關公辦都跟以及這個社會住宅的時候都可以納入附近的這些可能必須要安置的住戶的這些空間那我們會未來在住宅法裡面做一個修法讓租入中心未來的這些不管是社會住宅或者是未來的產業住宅包含高雄舊左宗以及中遊宿舍區域等等的這些居民有安置"},{"start":553.228,"end":555.209,"text":"的作用以有安置的效果。"}]}}},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":2,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"term":11,"id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","type":"委員會"},"會議時間":"2024-09-30T09:00:00+08:00","委員發言時間":"10:24:46 - 10:34:13","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案。【第一案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】\n\n【9月30日、10月2日及3日三天一次會】）","id":154977,"gazette":{"lineno":421,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時25分）請部長先回座。今天颱風，所以時間先不要開始，想先跟主席做一個會議詢問。主席，我們今天是一次會，但禮拜三是審消防法，我剛剛跟黃捷委員做了討論，也都在關心山陀兒颱風的動態，很有可能是禮拜二或禮拜三，也很有可能是屏東甚至高雄，已經看到颱風一直在轉向，部長也一直點頭，可能會從高雄登陸，如果禮拜三從高雄登陸，我們這裡排消防法的審修，第一個，對於南部委員來講，我們覺得壓力很大；第二個，對於所有一線的消防人員來講，我們覺得那一天可能要做適時的討論跟評估，在這邊先做一個會議建議，會後再跟主席做相關的討論，謝謝主席。","請國土署署長。"],["主席：請署長。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：署長，今天有很多委員，我是第9位質詢的委員，很多委員都在前面把國土署回復給立法院的這3張公文非常熟讀，而且來詢問署長，我想熟讀、詢問之外，跟我們今天所要審的都市更新條例第六十五條修正案，其實我想要很白話的跟所有民眾做解釋，我們今天審的這個都更條例第六十五條是在審1999年以前已經蓋好，但是經過都更條例容積的限制之後，事實上他們蓋好的房子是超過之後的容積，我們希望可以放寬，甚至可以獎勵他們，讓這些已經超過30年的房子未來都更時比較沒有問題。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["李委員柏毅：我想剛才大部分的委員除了提出相關的同意認可之外，提案委員跟國土署及內政部提的方向也大致一致，這是攸關我們人民住的地方的容積，關於容積，現在住30坪，未來參與都更之後，會不會少於30坪，主要是在討論這個，我們先給予正面的回應。","9月20號，在國土署回應給立法院某個委員辦公室的公文中，這個是針對某一個商業廣場經營不善以後，他要改變經營模式，甚至要拿出來賣，經過易手、拿出來賣之後，再跟臺北市政府爭取相關的容積。到現在，我也看不懂了，根據都市計畫容積管制，第二十四條、第二十六條、第二十七條到底是自提還是通檢，還是做這些變更等等，好像只要有辦法提升它的容積，每一項都想要放進去。我舉我自己選區的例子，我稍後要請劉部長上來，也跟劉部長做一個比較深的討論，請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員。"],["李委員柏毅：過去你在高雄市政府也擔任過高雄市政府都市計畫委員會的主委。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["李委員柏毅：針對高雄市的容積獎勵等等，你是非常嚴格的把關，針對歷史建築保存或者是公共建設、交通設施，還是綠建築、社宅、都更計畫區域這些才可能給予相關的容積獎勵。我在國土署這一份公文裡面其實看不到這個商業空間有任何以上的容積獎勵基礎，但是我卻看到臺北市政府給予韌性城市、智慧城市、宜居城市的這些容獎，我覺得蠻奇怪的；包含國土署給立法院的公文，避免就特定或單一對象於細部計畫的這些規定項目，我想這幾句話不是對行政部門講的，這幾句話，第一個，是在騙民眾；第二個，應該是在跟檢察官以及法官講「避免不等於禁止」，這如果在我們上一個會期通過的反質詢以及藐視國會項目，如果用這個公文來質詢吳欣修署長，吳欣修署長你可能就是藐視國會，你知道嗎？","我在這邊很感謝剛剛幾位委員，也給署長很清楚的說明，我也說明一下，為什麼請部長上來？就是你在高雄市政府任內，在我們所爭取的眷村文化保留園區裡面，目前也正在進行文化眷村都更，文化眷村都更在做什麼？就是把高雄海軍眷村文化保留園區，緯六路以北，目前都沒有開發的區域來跟民間合作，希望可以開發，而開發所獲得的資金可以用來保存緯六路以南的眷村文化保留園區，高度保存它的現貌，而且可以加以修繕，這個是高雄市政府目前跟國防部以及文化部、文化局正在進行的工作，我們也會繼續的投入，部長以前曾經做過很多努力，在這邊也跟部長做一個報告。"],["劉部長世芳：不好意思，讓委員來做報告。我想委員你講得沒有錯，各項容積獎勵的第一個基礎。就是要有必要性跟公益性，所謂的必要性跟公益性，譬如說，這是一個危險的地方，或者這是一個環境敏感的地方；再來就是必要性跟公益性非常的重要，譬如說，高雄市在很早以前，比臺北市更早獲得宜居城市，但是就我所知道，高雄市都市計畫委員會很少用「宜居城市」這四個字當成個別個案容積獎勵一個最主要的指標，當然我們都是尊重每個縣市政府對他們容積獎勵上面的一個指導，或者是其他方向上的指示，但是我們還是一再的跟外面講清楚、說明白，容積獎勵在經過都市計畫委員會，不管是在各級都委會的時候，一定都要符合必要性跟公益性，「公益性」這三個字非常的重要。如果它是商業性的話，第一個，大部分的都市計畫委員，包括官方或非官方或學者專家，通常會同意的比例不會太高。"],["李委員柏毅：今天其實也有三個直轄市的都發局同仁在這裡，這個也可以作為日後的參考，直轄市當然是可以核定相關的都市計畫，但是如果沒有符合剛剛講的這一些，未來還是會受到挑戰的，而且這個有適法性的問題。","最後，未來可能在住宅法裡面，相關的公辦都更以及社會住宅，都可以納入附近將來可能必須要安置的住戶的一些空間，我們未來在住宅法裡面會做一個修法，讓住都中心，不管是社會住宅或者是未來的產業住宅，包含高雄舊左中以及中油宿舍區等等的居民，有安置的空間以及有安置的效果。總之，我們之後會提出住宅法相關的一些討論，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員對左楠地區的關心。"],["李委員柏毅：謝謝。"],["主席：好，我們請吳琪銘委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":276,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-2","speakers":["張宏陸","李彥秀","王鴻薇","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","丁學忠","王美惠","黃捷","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","張智倫","李坤城","黃健豪","徐巧芯","羅智強","張啓楷","邱志偉","洪孟楷","張嘉郡"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2024-09-30"],"gazette_id":"1137801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1137801_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員王鴻薇等\n20人擬具「都市更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員李彥秀等17人擬具「都市\n更新條例第六十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1137801_00010"}}}